Conference changes not over yet

[Birds of B'more]

So now BYU will be leaving the Mountain West to be independent in football and join the WAC for all other sports. Apparently this also puts Boise State's move to the MWC in jeopardy, as the Broncos may now prefer to stay in the WAC and can go back on their MWC invite without penalty. As far as the non-BCS conferences go, it looks like there's still going to be more movement in the near future.

Source. (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/cougars/50131959-88/byu-football-wac-mountain.html.csp)

[Birds of B'more]

And the Mountain West invites Nevada and Fresno St to leave the WAC and join. Sounds like a little chess match is going on between the two conferences right now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5474774

[Majin Buu]

And the Mountain West invites Nevada and Fresno St to leave the WAC and join. Sounds like a little chess match is going on between the two conferences right now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5474774

That was nothing short of brilliant on Craig Thompson's part. Boise State, Nevada, Fresno all has decent football programs. Add that with Air Force and TCU and the case for an automatic bid grows louder. Imagine how much louder it would be in Utah wasn't invited to the Pac 12?
BYU, on the other hand, now has fewer options. The only other place they can go is independent. But what advantage does being independent in football give them in today’s environment? The pressure is high for Notre Dame to join a conference. With the Big Texas not looking for more members at the moment, their only other card WAS the WAC, but now that has been taken away. Right now, it makes more sense for them to stay and work out whatever it is that they really want. No one can say their schedule is weak anymore with that those schools coming in to town. Staying gives them a much improved shot at playing in a BCS bowl on a regular basis.

[Birds of B'more]

And now there's talk that the MWC and Conference USA will have their champions square off in a play-in game, with the winner getting an automatic BCS berth. If I'm the MWC, I'm not sure I want to go this route. If they can keep BYU and add a 12th school with a respected football program (Houston?), why not do that and appeal to the BCS for your own automatic berth instead of having to fight it out in an extra game for one?

[Majin Buu]

And now there's talk that the MWC and Conference USA will have their champions square off in a play-in game, with the winner getting an automatic BCS berth. If I'm the MWC, I'm not sure I want to go this route. If they can keep BYU and add a 12th school with a respected football program (Houston?), why not do that and appeal to the BCS for your own automatic berth instead of having to fight it out in an extra game for one?

Two letters... T V. An agreement between C-USA and the Mountain West would generate a massive T.V. contract with all the time zones this will cross and give them more clout. I think this will be different than the earlier Super WAC experiment. Each of these conf. are clustered into three basic geographical locations: the south, central and north west. Ironically, this may be the birth of the first super conference. I am interested in what happens to Big East football after this.

[Birds of B'more]

Two letters... T V. An agreement between C-USA and the Mountain West would generate a massive T.V. contract with all the time zones this will cross and give them more clout. I think this will be different than the earlier Super WAC experiment. Each of these conf. are clustered into three basic geographical locations: the south, central and north west. Ironically, this may be the birth of the first super conference. I am interested in what happens to Big East football after this.

The TV will bring some money, but when you look over the past few years, the MWC has done a pretty good job of getting in the BCS without needing a play-in game with another conference. And a BCS bid would probably bring in just as much TV money as a playoff game would. So I'm not sure the money would be worth it for the MWC Champion (and for the conference as a whole) to risk going from a BCS bowl to the Las Vegas Bowl. I still think they should focus on 1) keeping BYU, and 2) getting a decent program for a 12th team and see if they can either meet the criteria for an automatic berth in the BCS or petition for one with the hope that maybe the other BCS conferences will let them in just to ease the political pressure. And the 12th team will open up possibilities for more revenue just from a conference championship game. Only if none of that works would I consider the idea of a play-in game with C-USA.

I agree though that the conference realignment is far from over. The Big East needs to do something soon to secure its future.

[Majin Buu]

The TV will bring some money, but when you look over the past few years, the MWC has done a pretty good job of getting in the BCS without needing a play-in game with another conference. And a BCS bid would probably bring in just as much TV money as a playoff game would. So I'm not sure the money would be worth it for the MWC Champion (and for the conference as a whole) to risk going from a BCS bowl to the Las Vegas Bowl. I still think they should focus on 1) keeping BYU, and 2) getting a decent program for a 12th team and see if they can either meet the criteria for an automatic berth in the BCS or petition for one with the hope that maybe the other BCS conferences will let them in just to ease the political pressure. And the 12th team will open up possibilities for more revenue just from a conference championship game. Only if none of that works would I consider the idea of a play-in game with C-USA.

I agree though that the conference realignment is far from over. The Big East needs to do something soon to secure its future.

I see your point. I see this as more of a way for some of the non-BCS conferences to throw their weight around. The NCAA couldn't possibly say no to any kind of revenue generating arrangement these two conferences cooked up. These Either way, it will be very difficult in the near future for the MWC to not get some type of consideration. As far as BYU, I think the landscape today is far different from the late 80's and early 90's to go at it alone. Their best move right now is to stay. By playing TCU, Boise State, Fresno, and Nevada in conf. and Utah out of conf. they can make a better case to get into the BCS.

btw... if BYU stays what about Utah State reconsidering?

[Birds of B'more]

I see your point. I see this as more of a way for some of the non-BCS conferences to throw their weight around. The NCAA couldn't possibly say no to any kind of revenue generating arrangement these two conferences cooked up. These Either way, it will be very difficult in the near future for the MWC to not get some type of consideration. As far as BYU, I think the landscape today is far different from the late 80's and early 90's to go at it alone. Their best move right now is to stay. By playing TCU, Boise State, Fresno, and Nevada in conf. and Utah out of conf. they can make a better case to get into the BCS.

btw... if BYU stays what about Utah State reconsidering?

I agree....BYU should stay. Short-term they might get more money going independent because the MWC has a lousy TV deal right now. But I don't see them as being able to earn a BCS bid as an independent. I'm sure no one from the MWC is going to want to schedule games with them. And playing half their games against what remains of the WAC will not be nearly enough to impress the polls.

If BYU stays, I wouldn't want Utah State. They won't expand the TV footprint and their football program doesn't add any credibility to the conference. I'd try to lure Houston...decent program, big TV market, and more presence in Texas for recruiting. In fact, it would give the MWC two teams each in 2 of the top recruiting states in the country in TX and CA. No other FBS conference can claim that.

[Birds of B'more]

Been a while since I updated things in this thread, so here goes. Since the last post:

MWC:
- Loses BYU, Cougars will attempt to play football as an independent, and play in the WCC for other sports
- Adds Nevada and Fresno St in 2012
- Appears on the verge of adding Hawaii for football only in 2012, Warriors would join Big West for other sports
- Even though Hawaii isn't official yet, they already are talking about a 12th team, with Houston being mentioned as the likely target
- All these moves are designed around 2 things: 1) Keeping TCU from leaving 2) Getting a BCS AQ

WAC:
- Losing Boise St, Nevada, Fresno St and now Hawaii
- Adding Texas St and UT San Antonio in all sports and Denver in all sports except football
- Were spurned by Montana to move up from FCS
- May add Seattle for all sports but football
- They will have to add 1 more football playing member for 2012 to continue as a football conference per NCAA rules
- Conference is in complete survival mode, best case scenario is that they are the Sun Belt Conference of the west
- Speaking of Sun Belt, don't be surprised if LA Tech bolts for that conference

Big East:
- Announced intentions to expand to 10 football playing teams, targets for addition include TCU, Central Fla, East Carolina and Temple
- Offer still on the table for Villanova to move up to FBS
- No word on whether any new additions would be for all sports (namely basketball) or football only
- It appears that they still haven't wised up and approached Notre Dame with an "All or nothing" ultimatum

Big 12 (a.k.a. The Longhorn Conference):
- Texas gets it's own network, they will be paid $12 million/yr for the next 10 years on top of the $20 million the Big 12 promised them for not bolting to the Pac 10 in June
- That's one step closer this conference is to imploding, as the other schools must be wondering why they're paying UT a bigger share of conference revenues while they're now getting $12 million for their own channel

[Majin Buu]

B'more, the best thing the presidents of the Big East can do IMO is to expand by moving schools like Villanova up to division I. From what I been reading, the Big East doesn't want to offer full membership since that would hurt revenue share for the basketball only schools. On the other hand, if you are TCU or Central Florida, why would you take football only membership? There's a give an take that the Big East presidents don't understand here. What I think is really interesting is what's going on in the Mountain West. Craig Thompson has killed the WAC and made things uncomfortable for BYU. Even though they have left the MWC, going forward they are going to have to have a good working relationship with the MWC. There is speculation Gonzaga may also be added as an everything but football member that given Hawaii's status as a football only member. If Gonzaga leaves the WCC, the WCC is not as attractive a landing spot for BYU basketball.

[Birds of B'more]

B'more, the best thing the presidents of the Big East can do IMO is to expand by moving schools like Villanova up to division I. From what I been reading, the Big East doesn't want to offer full membership since that would hurt revenue share for the basketball only schools. On the other hand, if you are TCU or Central Florida, why would you take football only membership? There's a give an take that the Big East presidents don't understand here. What I think is really interesting is what's going on in the Mountain West. Craig Thompson has killed the WAC and made things uncomfortable for BYU. Even though they have left the MWC, going forward they are going to have to have a good working relationship with the MWC. There is speculation Gonzaga may also be added as an everything but football member that given Hawaii's status as a football only member. If Gonzaga leaves the WCC, the WCC is not as attractive a landing spot for BYU basketball.

That's why I think the Big East needs to go to Notre Dame and say either you play football in the Big East, or you're gone. Obviously ND would leave, but it will open a spot for a full member that will actually contribute something in all sports. I agree that it makes no sense for TCU or CFU to join as a football only member, because the MWC and C-USA would not let them play other sports in their conference....and the money they would make by being in a BCS AQ conference would be lost in trying to be an independent in other sports.

[Majin Buu]

That's why I think the Big East needs to go to Notre Dame and say either you play football in the Big East, or you're gone. Obviously ND would leave, but it will open a spot for a full member that will actually contribute something in all sports. I agree that it makes no sense for TCU or CFU to join as a football only member, because the MWC and C-USA would not let them play other sports in their conference....and the money they would make by being in a BCS AQ conference would be lost in trying to be an independent in other sports.

I think the Big East's AQ status is as good as gone because they are so late to do anything. BSU, Fresno, and Hawaii have really good fan bases. I'm not as sure about Nevada's fan base, but even Nevada has an up and coming program. They have the big showdown coming with BSU. Btw, what do you thing about BYU leaving? I just read their side of the story here:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/cougars/50713338-88/byu-checketts-comcast-mtn.html.csp#disqus_thread

[Birds of B'more]

I think the Big East's AQ status is as good as gone because they are so late to do anything. BSU, Fresno, and Hawaii have really good fan bases. I'm not as sure about Nevada's fan base, but even Nevada has an up and coming program. They have the big showdown coming with BSU. Btw, what do you thing about BYU leaving? I just read their side of the story here:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/cougars/50713338-88/byu-checketts-comcast-mtn.html.csp#disqus_thread

No surprise reading that. Comcast is one of the most lying, backstabbing companies in the broadcasting business....just ask Portland Trailblazers fans.

[Birds of B'more]

It's official (http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=2300152). Hawaii will join the Mountain West for football only beginning in 2012 (the same season Fresno and Nevada move with them). Hawaii will play in the Big West for other sports.

Good deal for Hawaii: Both conferences will require less travel time/expenses for the Warriors. With the WAC expanding into Texas (and LA Tech already being a member), they would have been playing more games in the Central Time Zone than the Pacific. Now they won't have to travel any further east than the Mountain Time Zone for conference football games (with TCU headed to the Big East), and all of the Big West's schools are in California.

OK deal for the MWC: They get a respectable football program that played in a BCS game just 3 years ago (albeit undeservedly due to a fluky season throughout college football) and the other MWC schools can compensate for extra travel by taking advantage of the Hawaii Rule that allows them to play an extra football game any year that they travel there. If they schedule that extra game right, it could make the difference in getting a BCS Bowl invite. This still won't get the MWC a BCS automatic qualifier, but they should still be the most respected of the non-AQ conferences which should help them with clinching at-large bids to BCS bowls. Now if they could just do something about that terrible TV deal.

Another nail in the WAC's coffin: Hawaii would have been the only remaining legitimate football program in the WAC. Now the WAC will easily be the worst FBS conference and probably worse (in terms of on-field quality) than some FCS conferences. Plus, even with adding Texas St and UT San Antonio, with Hawaii leaving they have to add still another football team by 2012 to continue as an FBS conference. And that doesn't take into account that LA Tech might want to consider going to the Sun Belt. And San Jose St was thinking of dropping its football program a few years ago....I'm guessing that subject will probably come up again for them shortly, if it hasn't already.

[Majin Buu]

It's official (http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=2300152). Hawaii will join the Mountain West for football only beginning in 2012 (the same season Fresno and Nevada move with them). Hawaii will play in the Big West for other sports.

Good deal for Hawaii: Both conferences will require less travel time/expenses for the Warriors. With the WAC expanding into Texas (and LA Tech already being a member), they would have been playing more games in the Central Time Zone than the Pacific. Now they won't have to travel any further east than the Mountain Time Zone for conference football games (with TCU headed to the Big East), and all of the Big West's schools are in California.

OK deal for the MWC: They get a respectable football program that played in a BCS game just 3 years ago (albeit undeservedly due to a fluky season throughout college football) and the other MWC schools can compensate for extra travel by taking advantage of the Hawaii Rule that allows them to play an extra football game any year that they travel there. If they schedule that extra game right, it could make the difference in getting a BCS Bowl invite. This still won't get the MWC a BCS automatic qualifier, but they should still be the most respected of the non-AQ conferences which should help them with clinching at-large bids to BCS bowls. Now if they could just do something about that terrible TV deal.

Another nail in the WAC's coffin: Hawaii would have been the only remaining legitimate football program in the WAC. Now the WAC will easily be the worst FBS conference and probably worse (in terms of on-field quality) than some FCS conferences. Plus, even with adding Texas St and UT San Antonio, with Hawaii leaving they have to add still another football team by 2012 to continue as an FBS conference. And that doesn't take into account that LA Tech might want to consider going to the Sun Belt. And San Jose St was thinking of dropping its football program a few years ago....I'm guessing that subject will probably come up again for them shortly, if it hasn't already.

Time for Karl to shut it down. I can't see any television network or bowl game willing to pay for what the WAC now offers. Even though they have lost BYU, Utah, and TCU, Craig Thompson has done a good job at damage control. The MWC will be a good league come 2012. With that being said, he should have raided the WAC a long time ago. You still lose Utah but maybe you don't lose BYU or TCU. Well, Better late than never.
At least he recognized that he needed to now bury the WAC. With one less western conference as competition, he should think about going back to ESPN whenever he can get out from under that terrible contract with Comcast. Killing the WAC also makes things a little more uncomfortable for BYU. They are depending on the WAC to fill out their football schedules in the near to far future. I think in order for this independence thing to work for BYU, they are going to need a good working relationship with the MWC. They won't be able to fill out their schedule with Pac 12 competition. Remember, the reason why Larry Scott took a pass on BYU is because it has a religious affiliation.

[Birds of B'more]

Time for Karl to shut it down. I can't see any television network or bowl game willing to pay for what the WAC now offers. Even though they have lost BYU, Utah, and TCU, Craig Thompson has done a good job at damage control. The MWC will be a good league come 2012. With that being said, he should have raided the WAC a long time ago. You still lose Utah but maybe you don't lose BYU or TCU. Well, Better late than never.
At least he recognized that he needed to now bury the WAC. With one less western conference as competition, he should think about going back to ESPN whenever he can get out from under that terrible contract with Comcast. Killing the WAC also makes things a little more uncomfortable for BYU. They are depending on the WAC to fill out their football schedules in the near to far future. I think in order for this independence thing to work for BYU, they are going to need a good working relationship with the MWC. They won't be able to fill out their schedule with Pac 12 competition. Remember, the reason why Larry Scott took a pass on BYU is because it has a religious affiliation.

I was reading an article in the Salt Lake Tribune today that said there are credible sources that say that Utah St is the MWC's next expansion target. On the surface, that makes little sense....but I have a theory. The MWC might bring USU in to try and help lure BYU back into the conference. We know the admins of the two schools are friendly and share common goals....as evidenced by the way USU was the broker when BYU was looking to join the WAC for all non-football sports. Maybe if Craig Thompson can get out of that Comcast deal, or at least get some important concessions from Comcast to accommodate BYU, Utah St could lure BYU back to the MWC.

[Majin Buu]

I was reading an article in the Salt Lake Tribune today that said there are credible sources that say that Utah St is the MWC's next expansion target. On the surface, that makes little sense....but I have a theory. The MWC might bring USU in to try and help lure BYU back into the conference. We know the admins of the two schools are friendly and share common goals....as evidenced by the way USU was the broker when BYU was looking to join the WAC for all non-football sports. Maybe if Craig Thompson can get out of that Comcast deal, or at least get some important concessions from Comcast to accommodate BYU, Utah St could lure BYU back to the MWC.

At the very least that would bring BYU back for basketball and the Olympic sports if not football also. I remember when the talk began with Hawaii being added there was also talk about bringing in Gonzaga for basketball. If that were to happen, the WCC doesn't look as attractive as it once did for BYU. I think there is some posturing on Thompson's part because he wants to see what happens with the Big 12. Adding the five dwarfs from that conference would boost their profile.