View Full Version : Kevin Kolb?
If the Eagles keep Vick long-term, should the Skins make a play for Kolb?
It obviously depends on the cost, but I would probably go with him over drafting a rookie high in the first round. Kolb is clearly ready to start and be quite successful imo.
Sports Guy
12-21-2010, 03:44 PM
Are you prepared to give up your high, first round pick for him?
BTW, Kolb is only due like 1.3 million next year...So, the Eagles clearly don't have to trade him.
ccbird
12-21-2010, 03:54 PM
Schefter was on Mike and Mike about a month ago and said it would cost a 1st and 3rd. Not sure I buy that but at the same time I think it would cost the Redskins more than teams outside your division. Definitely your 1st rounder.
JDubs
12-21-2010, 04:04 PM
Nah, he didn't look amazing to me and I would rather take my chances on the best QB available when we pick. Their are quite a few good ones coming out this season and it would only cost us our 1st (which is the bare minimum of what it would cost to get Kolb).
Are you prepared to give up your high, first round pick for him?
BTW, Kolb is only due like 1.3 million next year...So, the Eagles clearly don't have to trade him.
I think a case can be made that Kolb would be better than picking a QB there.
Sports Guy
12-21-2010, 05:52 PM
I think a case can be made that Kolb would be better than picking a QB there.
I don't disagree with you.
But, are they a better team if they draft a top defensive player or O-lineman and then draft a QB in the second or third round?
Moose Milligan
12-21-2010, 05:54 PM
What, so the Eagles can pull the football out from under us again? I'm pretty sure they're one of the smarter teams in the league and we're definitely amongst the dumbest.
If the Eagles called Snyder and told him they had real estate on the moon and it'd only cost a draft pick, Snyder would have them fax the papers over immediately.
Moose Milligan
12-21-2010, 05:55 PM
I don't disagree with you.
But, are they a better team if they draft a top defensive player or O-lineman and then draft a QB in the second or third round?
No, they're not. This team needs to be built properly and to do that we need a dominant offensive and defensive line. The game is always won or lost in the trenches and I'd hate to see a promising rookie QB getting killed behind our crappy offensive line.
I don't disagree with you.
But, are they a better team if they draft a top defensive player or O-lineman and then draft a QB in the second or third round?
Quite possibly. A lot of this depends on who will be available and I haven't looked into that as of yet and of course it's early.
But a lot of Skins fans seem set on picking a QB with that 1st pick so that's why I said what I did.
What, so the Eagles can pull the football out from under us again? I'm pretty sure they're one of the smarter teams in the league and we're definitely amongst the dumbest.
If the Eagles called Snyder and told him they had real estate on the moon and it'd only cost a draft pick, Snyder would have them fax the papers over immediately.
They dealt McNabb to make room for Kolb, so they obviously liked the guy a lot. It's just that Vick has become arguably the best player in the league, so Kolb is expendable. So I'm not worried about this issue you bring up. It made a lot more sense to worry about it with Donavan since it was fishy that they wanted to get rid of him. It's not fishy if they want to deal Kolb imo.
No, they're not. This team needs to be built properly and to do that we need a dominant offensive and defensive line. The game is always won or lost in the trenches and I'd hate to see a promising rookie QB getting killed behind our crappy offensive line.
So shouldn't your answer be yes?
NewMarketSean
12-21-2010, 06:27 PM
The Skins need to get back to drafting well. I think Shanahan will do this. Trading for Kolb is just giving more picks away for a guy who has never really proven much anyway. If you don't get your guy this draft, you will eventually.
I would imagine Snyder would pour money at Vick trying to get him there rather than trade with the Eagles for their QB for the second year in a row.
The Skins need to get back to drafting well. I think Shanahan will do this. Trading for Kolb is just giving more picks away for a guy who has never really proven much anyway. If you don't get your guy this draft, you will eventually.
It's trading away a first round pick to get a QB which you possibly would have used that pick for anyway. And Kolb is more proven than any college QB and is ready to start and play well asap, where the pick would not be most likely.
allstar1579
12-21-2010, 09:03 PM
I think a case can be made that Kolb would be better than picking a QB there.
Wish they would have gotten him or Vick instead of McNabb last offseason.
OrioleMagic
12-21-2010, 10:07 PM
I like drafting the best QB possible in the draft. As of today, I think Luck is the guy we must go after.
I just don't like the idea of trading for someone else's player in this case. I don't think Shanahan will either. I'd bet anything he will personally scout the top college QB's and select one.
Sports Guy
12-21-2010, 11:02 PM
I like drafting the best QB possible in the draft. As of today, I think Luck is the guy we must go after.
I just don't like the idea of trading for someone else's player in this case. I don't think Shanahan will either. I'd bet anything he will personally scout the top college QB's and select one.
Good chance Carolina is drafting him.
I think the realistic QBs for DC will be Mallett and Locker.
Locker has dropped a lot but he has good upside and would have gone #1 heading into last year's draft...A good bowl game and combine will jump him right back up the charts IMO.
Mallett is a big guy with a great arm.
I could see the Skins trying to get a guy like Kyle Orton and then draft a QB in the second or third round.
allstar1579
12-22-2010, 01:02 AM
Good chance Carolina is drafting him.
I think the realistic QBs for DC will be Mallett and Locker.
Locker has dropped a lot but he has good upside and would have gone #1 heading into last year's draft...A good bowl game and combine will jump him right back up the charts IMO.
Mallett is a big guy with a great arm.
I could see the Skins trying to get a guy like Kyle Orton and then draft a QB in the second or third round.
No way, not after investing in Claussen, they'll give him a year or two first before they deem him a failure. But someone will take him, I could see CIN dumping Palmer and drafting him, but they have so many holes, who knows.
ccbird
12-22-2010, 08:46 AM
If Luck declares he is going number #1. The only question is does Carolina draft him or get a boatload for the pick. My guess is they will still draft him. Remember, that Clausen was only a 2nd round pick. It's not like they have a ton of money tied up in him
Moose Milligan
12-22-2010, 09:36 AM
They dealt McNabb to make room for Kolb, so they obviously liked the guy a lot. It's just that Vick has become arguably the best player in the league, so Kolb is expendable. So I'm not worried about this issue you bring up. It made a lot more sense to worry about it with Donavan since it was fishy that they wanted to get rid of him. It's not fishy if they want to deal Kolb imo.
Nope, still not buying it. These things never work out for us.
So shouldn't your answer be yes?
Misread his question.
Sports Guy
12-22-2010, 10:18 AM
No way, not after investing in Claussen, they'll give him a year or two first before they deem him a failure. But someone will take him, I could see CIN dumping Palmer and drafting him, but they have so many holes, who knows.
They don't have muich invested in Clausen and do you know who really has nothing invested in Clausen? The new coach, whomever that may be.
allstar1579
12-22-2010, 10:31 AM
They don't have muich invested in Clausen and do you know who really has nothing invested in Clausen? The new coach, whomever that may be.
Yes, but you are slowing the rebuilding process by just discarding everything and trying again and wasting resources. They will start filling some other holes around him, give him a year or two and then decide if they need to change QB. It's been 1/2 a year with no surrounding cast, you can't blame him for not setting the world on fire.
ccbird
12-22-2010, 10:51 AM
Yes, but you are slowing the rebuilding process by just discarding everything and trying again and wasting resources. They will start filling some other holes around him, give him a year or two and then decide if they need to change QB. It's been 1/2 a year with no surrounding cast, you can't blame him for not setting the world on fire.
It's more about how good Luck is supposed to be. As of now, he's viewed as the best QB to come out in a long time. If I'm Carolina I'm not passing him up.
NewMarketSean
12-22-2010, 12:51 PM
It's trading away a first round pick to get a QB which you possibly would have used that pick for anyway. And Kolb is more proven than any college QB and is ready to start and play well asap, where the pick would not be most likely.
The Skins aren't close to making the playoffs and trading for Kolb doesn't make sense either, IMO.
Anyway, Skins fans just need to hope that Shanahan is in total control and Snyder is no longer making personnel moves. Shanahan will find his guy, whether it's in the draft or trading for a QB.
That's why trying Grossman out could be a great move...he could be a starter for a year or two while a drafted QB learns the ropes or a better QB comes along via trade.
Nope, still not buying it. These things never work out for us.
So what things have worked for us in the past? Should we not draft a QB in the first round because of Campbell, Ramsey, and Shuler?
The Skins aren't close to making the playoffs and trading for Kolb doesn't make sense either, IMO.Anyway, Skins fans just need to hope that Shanahan is in total control and Snyder is no longer making personnel moves. Shanahan will find his guy, whether it's in the draft or trading for a QB.
That's why trying Grossman out could be a great move...he could be a starter for a year or two while a drafted QB learns the ropes or a better QB comes along via trade.
How are those two things related? Kolb is a young QB who can be with the team for a very long time. It's not strictly a win now move by any means, although it helps the team win now a lot more than drafting a QB does.
Miller192
12-22-2010, 01:57 PM
The Redskins can't afford to do this, especially if they financially commit to McNabb next season.
They've given up a 3rd or a 4th for DM and likely will have to part with another high pick. You can't wipe out your draft like that given the fact that you potentially be in the same situation next season.
Go nuts on Vick if you want to, but don't make another move that's costly in picks, dollars and uncertainty.
The Redskins can't afford to do this, especially if they financially commit to McNabb next season.They've given up a 3rd or a 4th for DM and likely will have to part with another high pick. You can't wipe out your draft like that given the fact that you potentially be in the same situation next season.
Go nuts on Vick if you want to, but don't make another move that's costly in picks, dollars and uncertainty.
They obviously wouldn't keep McNabb if they got Kolb.
If you don't think the Skins should draft a QB in the first round, ok, I think your point has validity. However, if you do think they should pick a QB in the first, I guess I don't get how trading the first for Kolb is wiping out the draft if your are going to use that pick for QB anyway.
I'm not sure Kolb is the way to go, but I think he's at least worth considering.
NewMarketSean
12-22-2010, 02:17 PM
They obviously wouldn't keep McNabb if they got Kolb.
If you don't think the Skins should draft a QB in the first round, ok, I think your point has validity. However, if you do think they should pick a QB in the first, I guess I don't get how trading the first for Kolb is wiping out the draft if your are going to use that pick for QB anyway.
I'm not sure Kolb is the way to go, but I think he's at least worth considering.
You'd be losing another pick, probably a 3rd.
Miller192
12-22-2010, 02:17 PM
They obviously wouldn't keep McNabb if they got Kolb.
If you don't think the Skins should draft a QB in the first round, ok, I think your point has validity. However, if you do think they should pick a QB in the first, I guess I don't get how trading the first for Kolb is wiping out the draft if your are going to use that pick for QB anyway.
I'm not sure Kolb is the way to go, but I think he's at least worth considering.
You might have to financially commit to McNabb prior to obtaining Kolb. McNabb's option bonus should be payable the first week in March with free agency slated for the last week in February. The Eagles would have to retain Vick and work out a deal with the Redskins in a very short window. That's extremely unlikely as any deal probably would get consummated around the draft.
I'm fine with the Skins taking a QB in the first round and I'd be fine with Kolb (though not for a first rounder).
If I'm the Redskins, I'd have faith in Shanahan in developing a QB. He's done pretty good overall in Cutler, Griese and Maddox.
It's just a tough gig to pull off.
Moose Milligan
12-22-2010, 02:24 PM
So what things have worked for us in the past? Should we not draft a QB in the first round because of Campbell, Ramsey, and Shuler?
Do you trust this FO (read: owner) to do anything right?
You'd be losing another pick, probably a 3rd.
Maybe, and if that's the case then the cost will likely be too high, but you don't know that to be true.
You might have to financially commit to McNabb prior to obtaining Kolb. McNabb's option bonus should be payable the first week in March with free agency slated for the last week in February. The Eagles would have to retain Vick and work out a deal with the Redskins in a very short window. That's extremely unlikely as any deal probably would get consummated around the draft.
I'm fine with the Skins taking a QB in the first round and I'd be fine with Kolb (though not for a first rounder).
If I'm the Redskins, I'd have faith in Shanahan in developing a QB. He's done pretty good overall in Cutler, Griese and Maddox.
It's just a tough gig to pull off.
They are getting rid of Donavan regardless so there is no financially committing to him. So scratch your first paragraph.
I don't think a first rounder not named Luck is a better bet than Kolb going forward.
Do you trust this FO (read: owner) to do anything right?
Not really, but what's your point then? That we shouldn't debate them doing anything because it won't work out?
Miller192
12-22-2010, 02:37 PM
Ok, I just saw that McNabb's option bonus isn't paid like most and isn't due until week one. I think his agent walked him into a bad deal.
They gives the Skins more flexibility to do something this offseason.
I might bring in a guy like Thigpen or Alex Smith and let them go to work with Shanahan. Maybe I'd spend a truckload on Vick.
I don't think I'm going to be moved much to offer a high pick or two on Kevin Kolb.
Moose Milligan
12-22-2010, 02:40 PM
Not really, but what's your point then? That we shouldn't debate them doing anything because it won't work out?
Yes, that's exactly my point.
No, I'm saying that if the Redskins were to trade for Kolb, I doubt it'd work. We'd put him behind a crappy offensive line and he'd get pounded into the turf.
Since Rypien left, the Redskins have not been a good place for a QB to be. Sure, there's been a couple years here and there where we've had decent QB play, but you'd have to go back to Theismann to find a QB that was a mainstay at starter for more than a few years. Rypiens prime here wasn't really that long. He only started 16 games for us twice.
You could bring a young Joe Montana in here and we'd probably screw it up. But I admire your positivity.
Miller192
12-22-2010, 02:44 PM
They are getting rid of Donavan regardless so there is no financially committing to him. So scratch your first paragraph.
I don't think a first rounder not named Luck is a better bet than Kolb going forward.
Yeah, I just looked at the terms of his contract. He's not coming back.
I don't know that Kevin Kolb is worthy of a first round pick. However, you could see a similar deal in the Matt Schaub trade. Flip flop the firsts and give up two seconds. That's probably a good barometer of what Kolb might command.
If we're just talking about trading a first, you might be able to talk me into it mweb.
Yes, that's exactly my point.
No, I'm saying that if the Redskins were to trade for Kolb, I doubt it'd work. We'd put him behind a crappy offensive line and he'd get pounded into the turf.
Since Rypien left, the Redskins have not been a good place for a QB to be. Sure, there's been a couple years here and there where we've had decent QB play, but you'd have to go back to Theismann to find a QB that was a mainstay at starter for more than a few years. Rypiens prime here wasn't really that long. He only started 16 games for us twice.
You could bring a young Joe Montana in here and we'd probably screw it up. But I admire your positivity.
Well that's basically what you were saying so you can't blame me for interpreting it that way.
Yes, the offensive line is relatively poor, but at least Williams should be improved by next season. If you want to focus on upgrading that and just letting Grossman or someone similar play QB next year, that's fine with me. I just think Kolb > 1st round QB other than Luck.
That has nothing to do with positivity either.
Yeah, I just looked at the terms of his contract. He's not coming back.
I don't know that Kevin Kolb is worthy of a first round pick. However, you could see a similar deal in the Matt Schaub trade. Flip flop the firsts and give up two seconds. That's probably a good barometer of what Kolb might command.
If we're just talking about trading a first, you might be able to talk me into it mweb.
Ultimately I'd likely rather keep the pick or trade down and draft guys at other positions than trade the first for Kolb or use it for a QB. But trading the pick for Kolb if possible would be second on my list out of those options.
Moose Milligan
12-22-2010, 03:15 PM
Well that's basically what you were saying so you can't blame me for interpreting it that way.
Yes, the offensive line is relatively poor, but at least Williams should be improved by next season. If you want to focus on upgrading that and just letting Grossman or someone similar play QB next year, that's fine with me. I just think Kolb > 1st round QB other than Luck.
That has nothing to do with positivity either.
I was being sarcastic.
Yes, I don't care who our QB is next year as long as we're focusing on building the offensive and defensive lines. If we draft a rookie QB I hope he sits until we know we have good protection.
Again, the Eagles are a shrewd, smart team. I truly believe if they're willing to trade Kolb inside the division, they must not be high on him and know something we don't.
But, whatever.
TiredofLosing20
12-22-2010, 03:15 PM
All indications are that Kolb is very highly thought of by the Eagles. It would take a king's ransom to get them to deal him in the division. He would undoubtably cost significantly more in picks than McNabb did.
Moving McNabb to Wash was a calculated move IMO.
I was being sarcastic.
Yes, I don't care who our QB is next year as long as we're focusing on building the offensive and defensive lines. If we draft a rookie QB I hope he sits until we know we have good protection.
Again, the Eagles are a shrewd, smart team. I truly believe if they're willing to trade Kolb inside the division, they must not be high on him and know something we don't. But, whatever.
Sorry that I didn't get that 3 straight posts with the same message and lacking any smileys or whatever was sarcastic. I appreciate the ability to stick with the sarcasm that long though.
It depends on how much they value getting the best deal vs worrying about dealing him within the division. Plus, they likely don't view the Skins as that much of a short-term threat anyway.
I think it's pretty clear that they are high on him.
TiredofLosing20
12-22-2010, 03:40 PM
Again, the Eagles are a shrewd, smart team. I truly believe if they're willing to trade Kolb inside the division, they must not be high on him and know something we don't.
I don't think you could be any more correct.
They have a very good history of releasing or trading guys and not regretting it.
I don't think you could be any more correct.
They have a very good history of releasing or trading guys and not regretting it.
You have to admit that having arguably the best player in the game at the same position is a lot different than most other cases of them or any team letting a player go elsewhere.
TiredofLosing20
12-22-2010, 03:51 PM
You have to admit that having arguably the best player in the game at the same position is a lot different than most other cases of them or any team letting a player go elsewhere.
I am assuming you mean they had the luxury of getting rid of McNabb because of Vick?
If that is what you are suggesting well, that statement is simply false. They had every intention of going with Kolb. Vick was an insurance policy. He was fairly underwhelming last year and Vick in the preseason was horrid. I mean I thought he might get cut bad.
Believe me Vick was not seen as anything other than a backup and a wildcat QB when they made the decision on McNabb.
I am assuming you mean they had the luxury of getting rid of McNabb because of Vick?
If that is what you are suggesting well, that statement is simply false. They had every intention of going with Kolb. Vick was an insurance policy. He was fairly underwhelming last year and Vick in the preseason was horrid. I mean I thought he might get cut bad.
Believe me Vick was not seen as anything other than a backup and a wildcat QB when they made the decision on McNabb.
No, I mean letting go of Kolb because of Vick.
TiredofLosing20
12-22-2010, 04:17 PM
No, I mean letting go of Kolb because of Vick.
Oh sorry.. misread that.
I think they think very highly of Kolb. They are not going to trade him in the division unless they are completely overwhelmed. I think they believe Kolb has a very bright future. I don't believe they had the same opinion of McNabb. The point is, they are generally very talent evaluators on the Pro level. If they believe they will be significantly upgrading the Redskins long term they won't do it again unless the offer is ridiculous.
I am not sure they are 100% sold on Vick. I believe the intention is to keep both next year. I don't know if they are going to be able to do that. (unless the franchise tag is still available after the new bargaining agreement)
ccbird
12-22-2010, 04:30 PM
It's very possible the Eagles will keep Kolb. Like someone said, he doesn't make a lot of money next year. Vick plays the position in a way that you absolutely have to have a solid backup QB.
Oh sorry.. misread that.
I think they think very highly of Kolb. They are not going to trade him in the division unless they are completely overwhelmed. I think they believe Kolb has a very bright future. I don't believe they had the same opinion of McNabb. The point is, they are generally very talent evaluators on the Pro level. If they believe they will be significantly upgrading the Redskins long term they won't do it again unless the offer is ridiculous.
I am not sure they are 100% sold on Vick. I believe the intention is to keep both next year. I don't know if they are going to be able to do that. (unless the franchise tag is still available after the new bargaining agreement)
Yeah, I think there's a good chance the cost for Kolb will be too high, but I don't know that they'd charge the Skins that much more than another team. It's possible though. And sure, they may keep both.
backwardsk
12-22-2010, 08:32 PM
No way, not after investing in Claussen, they'll give him a year or two first before they deem him a failure. But someone will take him, I could see CIN dumping Palmer and drafting him, but they have so many holes, who knows.
Kiper, on the radio today, said that he expects Carolina to draft Luck and trade Claussen to Seattle.
OrioleMagic
12-22-2010, 10:50 PM
Kiper, on the radio today, said that he expects Carolina to draft Luck and trade Claussen to Seattle.
I wonder how Kiper and McShay would compare Luck to Bradford and Eli Manning/Philip Rivers??? Also where would Locker and Mallett fit into that comparison?
Anybody else see the article in the WP today that compares Grossman to Plummer? SCARY!! The author thinks Shanahan might see Grossman as his QB of the future. :eek:
allstar1579
12-23-2010, 12:00 AM
Kiper, on the radio today, said that he expects Carolina to draft Luck and trade Claussen to Seattle.
I could see that, if he was getting enough return for the pickle that he could plug another hole with that pick.
They need WR, OL, and everything on defense, without replacing the QB.