The NBA Thread

[mweb]

We are nearing the halfway point in the season and its been an interesting one so I'd figured I'd get some discussion going for the 7 or so NBA fans on here.:D

- How about the Spurs? Most including myself counted this core or talent out in terms of being title contenders, but they have an absurd 29-4 record. Duncan has mostly taken a back seat and the team is being lead by Manu, but they have a very balanced offense with no one scoring 19 points a game.

- After a rough start the Heat have been tremendous and look like one of the favorites to win it all. Getting Miller back to his normal self will be big for them.

- The Celtics once again look like a great team who play suffocating D and have a very balanced offensive attack.

- Orlando is looking quite strong after the big shake-up. They may be back to being a real contender.

- The Lakers are really struggling and one has to wonder if the defending champs and favorites to repeat at the beginning of the season are now long-shots for the title. Kobe is declining, Bynum is a still coming back from injury and hard to count on, Artest is having a poor year as is Fisher, and Gasol was tired out some by playing so much when Drew was out and currently isn't getting enough shots. Odom has played quite well though.

- The Mavs are the other team that is having a very good season although they've slowed down of late and now Butler is out for the year and Dirk is hurt. Dirk is having another great year and they have a lot of good supporting players even without Butler.

- Utah, OKC, and Chicago are the other teams that seem like they have an outside chance at making the Finals.

This is how I'd rank the teams chances at winning the title:

Boston
Miami
San Antonio
LAL
Orlando
Dallas
Chicago
OKC
Utah

One last thing: How about Blake Griffin? The guy is very exciting and is playing some great basketball!

[adamwolff11]

Agree with pretty much everything you said. And yeah, Blake Griffin is a pleasure to watch. I expected he would be good, but nothing like this.

I think Chicago is a dark horse to make something happen in the playoffs. The combination of Rose/Boozer/Noah is pretty impressive and Deng has had a nice season as well. As long as Noah transitions well back from his injury, I could see them making some noise.

The Lake Show looks to be in trouble to me, but I felt the same way about the Celtics last season, and look what they did when it counted. I still feel like the Lakers will somehow manage to win the West and get to the finals, but it's more of a hunch now, whereas before I thought it was a certainty.

The Magic look impressive and IMO they're an easy team to root for. You've got Dwight, who is the best personality in the league. Arenas and Turkoglu are playing like kids again, thankful to get out of their respective situations. Redick, as much as I hated him at Duke, as worked his ass off to become a really solid NBA player, and I respect him a lot for that. Jameer has always been the little guy from the little school. It's just sort of a cool team IMO.

The NBA has been good this year. I'm really looking forward to the playoffs.

[lordbrook]

I say put a fork in Boston. If KG has a lingering injury that is. I don't hate them, but I don't think they have it. San Antonio is really good this year and so is Dallas. If the playoffs come down to Miami and LA I hope a new rule is invoked where both teams can lose and be banned from the league for 10 years.

[mweb]

On a different note, there were plenty of people who said Cleveland's roster wasn't that bad other than LeBron, yet now without him they have the worst record in the league.:D

Pretty good evidence that LeBron was worthy of those MVP's imo.

[beaner]

On a different note, there were plenty of people who said Cleveland's roster wasn't that bad other than LeBron, yet now without him they have the worst record in the league.:D

Pretty good evidence that LeBron was worthy of those MVP's imo.

This.

Any anti LeBron sentiment about his play is beyond laughable.

The highlight of my NBA fan season was tonight, when Tyler Hansbrough put up 23 and 12 boards in his first start. And Ray Felton's first triple double!! :hearts:

I'll do a personal top 5 MVP candidates and potential NBA champs thing this weekend. Good stuff as always Web.

[Pedro Cerrano]

So it looks like the Nets are about to trade for Carmelo, Billups and Hamilton.

Uhhh why? Is this strictly to get some $$ off the books for next year?

[ChaosLex]

Poor Cleveland. Ugh.

[mweb]

This.

Any anti LeBron sentiment about his play is beyond laughable.

The highlight of my NBA fan season was tonight, when Tyler Hansbrough put up 23 and 12 boards in his first start. And Ray Felton's first triple double!! :hearts:

I'll do a personal top 5 MVP candidates and potential NBA champs thing this weekend. Good stuff as always Web.

What happened to this?

Anyway, I'll be curious to read your take.

BTW, I think there may be a new debate concerning your boy Durant, and it's not if he's the best player in the league because he's clearly not imo, but whether he's the best player on his own team. Westbrook is really really good. He actually has a little better PER than Durant.

[Pedro Cerrano]

My top 5 current MVP candidates:

1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Chris Paul
4. Deron Williams
5. Amare Stoudemire

Honorable mention to Dwyane Wade, Blake Griffin, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose and Kevin Love

Top 5 teams (with best odds to win NBA title):

1. Miami Heat
2. Orlando Magic
3. Boston Celtics
4. Los Angeles Lakers
5. San Antonio Spurs

I'll stick with my Lakers Heat prediction but I now feel the Heat will beat them.

[beaner]

What happened to this?

Anyway, I'll be curious to read your take.

BTW, I think there may be a new debate concerning your boy Durant, and it's not if he's the best player in the league because he's clearly not imo, but whether he's the best player on his own team. Westbrook is really really good. He actually has a little better PER than Durant.

I'm on it..thanks for the reminder.

Yea, Westbrook is awesome. I still want the ball in Durant's hand if I need to score down the stretch, but point is taken on RW.

[mweb]

My MVP list:

James
Paul
Howard
Dirk
Kobe
Wade
Amare
Westbrook
Rose
Durant

[beaner]

1-Deron Williams
2-LeBron James
3-Amare
4-Dirk Nowitski
5-Derrick Rose
6-Russell Westbrook
7-Kevin Love
8-Dwight Howard
9-Chris Paul
1,396-Andray Blatche

[mweb]

I'm on it..thanks for the reminder.

Yea, Westbrook is awesome. I still want the ball in Durant's hand if I need to score down the stretch, but point is taken on RW.

Sure, Durant is still the better scorer obviously.

It seems like he's regressed some this year though. Everyone seemed to be fawning over him after his stint with Team USA and him being the anti-LeBron with how he handled extending with the Thunder; however he hasn't taken that leap to arguably the best player like many seemed to think he would.

In fact, he's not getting to the line as much, he's shooting 3's at a lower %, his rebounds are down 1.4 a game, his PER is down by a decent margin, and none of his others numbers have really improved. Plus, the Thunder haven't quite become the elite team that some were predicting them to be.

[mweb]

1-Deron Williams
2-LeBron James
3-Amare
4-Dirk Nowitski
5-Derrick Rose
6-Russell Westbrook
7-Kevin Love
8-Dwight Howard
9-Chris Paul
1,396-Andray Blatche

Interesting that the guy you have #1 isn't even in my top 10, although he'd likely be next. And my #2 is only #9 on your list. Clearly we have a difference of opinion on the top PG's.

Love is having a tremendous year that should be honored with an AS appearance, but I have a hard time putting him on my MVP list considering how bad his team is. Plus, I don't think he's having a much better season, if better at all then any of the guys on our lists.

Why no Wade or Kobe? And why is Howard so low?

[beaner]

Interesting that the guy you have #1 isn't even in my top 10, although he'd likely be next. And my #2 is only #9 on your list. Clearly we have a difference of opinion on the top PG's.

Love is having a tremendous year that should be honored with an AS appearance, but I have a hard time putting him on my MVP list considering how bad his team is. Plus, I don't think he's having a much better season, if better at all then any of the guys on our lists.

Why no Wade or Kobe? And why is Howard so low?

I'm concerned about Paul's knees, I don't think he looks the same. Hope it's not another Brandon Roy situation in the making. I think Williams is insanely good, and he's been so impressive this year.

I guess Howard should be higher, I did this on the fly, without numbers in front of me.

[beaner]

Sure, Durant is still the better scorer obviously.

It seems like he's regressed some this year though. Everyone seemed to be fawning over him after his stint with Team USA and him being the anti-LeBron with how he handled extending with the Thunder; however he hasn't taken that leap to arguably the best player like many seemed to think he would.

In fact, he's not getting to the line as much, he's shooting 3's at a lower %, his rebounds are down 1.4 a game, his PER is down by a decent margin, and none of his others numbers have really improved. Plus, the Thunder haven't quite become the elite team that some were predicting them to be.

Agreed, maybe he's a little tired, who knows. Still a top 5/10 guy.

I can't figure out what's missing there, besides a good big man, though it's not really a big man's league right now...I don't know if there's an alpha Dog thing going on with KD and Westbrook, though I wouldn't expect it. Weird team so far.

[mweb]

I'm concerned about Paul's knees, I don't think he looks the same. Hope it's not another Brandon Roy situation in the making. I think Williams is insanely good, and he's been so impressive this year.

I guess Howard should be higher, I did this on the fly, without numbers in front of me.

Paul's knees are a concern, but he's still playing at a very high level. He's still #3 in the league in PER and and leading a mediocre team to a 26-16 record.

I like Williams, but I don't see much of a case for him being #1.

[mweb]

Agreed, maybe he's a little tired, who knows. Still a top 5/10 guy.

I can't figure out what's missing there, besides a good big man, though it's not really a big man's league right now...I don't know if there's an alpha Dog thing going on with KD and Westbrook, though I wouldn't expect it. Weird team so far.

Well they've regressed defensively. And yes, a good post presence would be great for them.

[beaner]

Well they've regressed defensively. And yes, a good post presence would be great for them.

Maybe they'll get a big man at the deadline, it would definitely help.

[mweb]

Maybe they'll get a big man at the deadline, it would definitely help.

I hope not.;)

[lordbrook]

Paul's knees are a concern, but he's still playing at a very high level. He's still #3 in the league in PER and and leading a mediocre team to a 26-16 record.

I like Williams, but I don't see much of a case for him being #1.

I am insanely biased, but I would take D Will over any PG in the league. He plays both guard positions, is extremely durable, can post up or hit the three, and distributes the ball very well. Don't get me wrong, I like Paul's play a lot, but he is injured often and head to head D Will owns him. The big knock I have on Williams is his quickness on the defensive end as Wall exploited yesterday, but I still like Williams for my PG.

I don't think there's much of a case for him being MVP. I think Utah would be screwed without him, but as far as most valuable to a team, I think there are others more deserving. As much as I hate saying this, I think Ginobili might top my list. I just get the sense that if he gets injured San Antonio would have one hell of a time winning with their bench. Stoudemire sure seems to have made a difference too.

[mweb]

I would take Williams going forward over Paul due to Chris' knee issues, but I think Paul, when healthy, has been better to this point of their careers.

There's a lot of really good PG's out there though.

Yeah, Manu is another good candidate that I didn't really think of. It's hard though to give too much consideration to a guy who only plays 31.6 minutes a game while scoring under 20 points a game and less than 5 assists and 4 rebounds.

[lordbrook]

I would take Williams going forward over Paul due to Chris' knee issues, but I think Paul, when healthy, has been better to this point of their careers.

There's a lot of really good PG's out there though.

Yeah, Manu is another good candidate that I didn't really think of. It's hard though to give too much consideration to a guy who only plays 31.6 minutes a game while scoring under 20 points a game and less than 5 assists and 4 rebounds.

I've never liked Manu because he plays basketball like South Americans play soccer (flopping all the time), but he just seems like the keystone for their offense right now. I've only seen a few San Antonio games this year so I may be overstating it.

[mweb]

I've never liked Manu because he plays basketball like South Americans play soccer (flopping all the time), but he just seems like the keystone for their offense right now. I've only seen a few San Antonio games this year so I may be overstating it.

Oh, he's definitely playing quite well and is their MVP, so considering their record, that automatically makes him a candidate. Their success is more evenly dispersed throughout the team than the vast majority of teams though.

[lordbrook]

Who the hell replaced my entire Jazz roster with the Generals? We can't score, we can't play defense and we have no energy. I'm about ready to kick my dog.

[mweb]

Given the recent slump of the Jazz, CP3's MVP case is looking better in comparison imo.

A little exercise for anyone who wants to respond:

Rank the talent other than the starting PG for Jazz, Bulls, Thunder, and Hornets.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Who the hell replaced my entire Jazz roster with the Generals? We can't score, we can't play defense and we have no energy. I'm about ready to kick my dog.

We call that Kobe Karma;)

[Pedro Cerrano]

Given the recent slump of the Jazz, CP3's MVP case is looking better in comparison imo.

A little exercise for anyone who wants to respond:

Rank the talent other than the starting PG for Jazz, Bulls, Thunder, and Hornets.

Assuming health:

1. Bulls
2. Thunder
3. Jazz








4,382. Hornets

[mweb]

Assuming health:

1. Bulls
2. Thunder
3. Jazz








4,382. Hornets

Seems about right.

Of course the Bulls have had a decent amount of injuries.

[Birds of B'more]

Assuming health:

1. Bulls
2. Thunder
3. Jazz








4,382. Hornets
4,383. Frail Blazers

Of course, the Frail Blazers have no talent at the PG either. Hence, they are the worst team in the NBA right now and an embarrassment to the city of Portland. If anyone wants to know who the NBA equivalent of Peter Angelos is, take a look at Paul Allen. Each is the proud owner of the most bumbling franchise in their respective leagues. Heck, they even share the same initials.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Of course, the Frail Blazers have no talent at the PG either. Hence, they are the worst team in the NBA right now and an embarrassment to the city of Portland. If anyone wants to know who the NBA equivalent of Peter Angelos is, take a look at Paul Allen. Each is the proud owner of the most bumbling franchise in their respective leagues. Heck, they even share the same initials.

Haha I know you're down on the Blazers but there is no way they are the worst team in the NBA and/or the most poorly run.

[Birds of B'more]

Haha I know you're down on the Blazers but there is no way they are the worst team in the NBA and/or the most poorly run.

As for the worst team right now, I'd definitely say they are. When you get blown out by the Sacramento Kings, as they did this week, your whole team needs to be demoted to the D-League.

As for worst run, I think the comparison to the Orioles is valid. Both franchises want to win but are too incompetent and dysfunctional, largely due to meddling owners, to get out of their own way. If you're looking for a MLB comp for the Clippers, that would be the Pirates...neither of those franchises want or try to win....both of them merely exist to make a profit for their owners.

[Pedro Cerrano]

As for the worst team right now, I'd definitely say they are. When you get blown out by the Sacramento Kings, as they did this week, your whole team needs to be demoted to the D-League.

As for worst run, I think the comparison to the Orioles is valid. Both franchises want to win but are too incompetent and dysfunctional, largely due to meddling owners, to get out of their own way. If you're looking for a MLB comp for the Clippers, that would be the Pirates...neither of those franchises want or try to win....both of them merely exist to make a profit for their owners.

The worst team in the NBA right now is the Cavs, no question.

As for poorly run, I'd still give it to the Clippers. Maybe Minnesota.

The fact is, the Blazers have had two high draft picks (Roy and Oden) constantly hurt. We all know how good Roy is when he's healthy and Oden has all the potential in the world.

I think you're being too hard on them. Remember, earlier in the late 90s early 2000s the Blazers were relevant. You made a title in '92 and actually won a title with Walton.

I know it sounds bad but, believe it or not, there are fans of teams that would love that.

[Birds of B'more]

The worst team in the NBA right now is the Cavs, no question.

As for poorly run, I'd still give it to the Clippers. Maybe Minnesota.

The fact is, the Blazers have had two high draft picks (Roy and Oden) constantly hurt. We all know how good Roy is when he's healthy and Oden has all the potential in the world.

I think you're being too hard on them. Remember, earlier in the late 90s early 2000s the Blazers were relevant. You made a title in '92 and actually won a title with Walton.

I know it sounds bad but, believe it or not, there are fans of teams that would love that.

After the epic 4th quarter collapse in Game 7 of the 2000 Western Conf Finals, the Trail Blazers as everyone once knew them ceased to exist. Instead of just tweaking the roster in an effort to continue to compete with the Lakers, Paul Allen and Bob Whitsitt made a series of stupid trades and signings that destroyed the team's chemistry and ushered in the Jail Blazer era. After the fan backlash from that (as well as the bankruptcy of the Rose Garden and Paul Allen's "broken business model" quote) the team took the right approach and tried to build from the ground up with players that were both talented as well as people the community could be proud of. Trouble is, they made huge errors in evaluating some of these players' health histories and after some initial promise, we went from the Jail Blazers era to the Frail Blazers era.

The most irritating part of it all is that the front office is never straightforward with the fans about these injuries. I'm not talking about disclosing the exact nature of what's wrong....there are obviously some privacy issues as far as that's concerned. But they are never up front with how long these guys will be out....probably because they want to maintain a false hope among fans so as not to hurt ticket sales too badly. For instance, we still have not been told that Roy is done for the season, even though it is painfully obvious to anyone with two eyes that he isn't coming back, and that his NBA career as anything other than a 10-minute a night role player is over. That Brandon Roy had knee concerns coming out of college was well known....I mean, someone had to know something was up when Minnesota was willing to trade him on draft night for Randy Foye. As for Oden, I refuse to believe that the need for microfracture surgery on both knees mysteriously cropped up for no apparent reason at all....the first time just a couple months after the guy is drafted, and the second time during what was supposed to be his rehab. I feel bad for him, but the guy is damaged goods and the sooner the franchise jettisons him and Roy and starts an honest to goodness rebuild the better. They have several decent trade pieces in the expiring contracts of Joel Pryzbilla and Andre Miller. And if Marcus Camby comes back reasonably healthy someone might want him as a solid backup at the 4/5. And LaMarcus Aldridge's value right now is as high as it will ever be....trade him now and get a great return, because while he should have a very good career a solid NBA PF, he isn't the kind of player you can build a winning franchise around, and Portland needs to go find that guy.

As for Paul Allen, I certainly admire the guy in some respects....he helped build an empire while making more money than he'll ever spend, and has twice survived cancer. He stepped up and saved the Seahawks from leaving his hometown for LA, even though he really isn't into football and doesn't meddle in their operations like he does the Blazers (lucky Seahawks). But the guy is a complete social misfit. He's the stereotypical computer nerd still living in his mom's house (which he really is!) and simply does not possess the skills to lead. He has never publicly addressed Blazers fans, not even to say "thank you" for their continued support (according to Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/32/basketball-valuations-11_rank.html) they were just ranked #11 in the NBA in operating income at $10.7 mil, at a time when most owners are losing their shirt) even though he attends just about every game sitting courtside along the baseline. And he somehow manages to be both aloof and distant, and yet his meddlesome specter hangs over the front office....and if it's not him then it's his cronies up at Vulcan Inc. If this does not sound all too familiar to O's fans, then you haven't been paying attention for the past couple decades. And much like the Orioles, no one here really knows what the succession plan is with regards to Blazers ownership. Of course Allen is much younger than Angelos, but his health history and recent bout with lymphoma seemed to leave folks here with an uneasy feeling about what the succession plan would be and whether the franchise's days in Portland could be numbered.

I know that was a lot, but just thought I'd give some of the hardcore NBA fans a local's insight into one of the teams. And BTW, word is that Nicolas Batum is undergoing an MRI this morning on a knee he injured in the Boston game last night. Oh goodie...we get to hear more excuses from the team about why they stink....plus Batum is another guy I would have traded to kick off the rebuild. Guess there's not much chance of that happening now. :rolleyes:

[mweb]

Cleveland has lost 18 games in a row!!!!!!!

How can a team that is 5-5 in their last 10 be worse?????

Toronto is brutal as well.

[mweb]

As far as Portland bieng run awfully, sure they've had some issues, but they still have a winning record this year despite the injuries and they won at least 50 games each of the last 2 years. Since their first winning season in the 76-77 season where they won the title, they've only had 5 losing seasons!

In terms of now, they built a very good roster, but their budding young superstar has been destroyed by injuries as has their recent #1 overall pick. You can obviously argue they should have picked Durant, but if Roy and Oden were healthy that would be a very good team.

They are far from the worst run.

[Birds of B'more]

As far as Portland bieng run awfully, sure they've had some issues, but they still have a winning record this year despite the injuries and they won at least 50 games each of the last 2 years. Since their first winning season in the 76-77 season where they won the title, they've only had 5 losing seasons!

In terms of now, they built a very good roster, but their budding young superstar has been destroyed by injuries as has their recent #1 overall pick. You can obviously argue they should have picked Durant, but if Roy and Oden were healthy that would be a very good team.

They are far from the worst run.

It isn't the talent of the players assembled that people here have issues with. They have talent, but it can't stay on the court long enough to do anything. Every team has injuries, but with the Blazers it is ridiculous. This clearly goes beyond bad luck. Something is seriously wrong, either in how they evaluate the health of the players they draft/sign or in how the training staff handles them in-season. Or both.

[beaner]

As far as Portland bieng run awfully, sure they've had some issues, but they still have a winning record this year despite the injuries and they won at least 50 games each of the last 2 years. Since their first winning season in the 76-77 season where they won the title, they've only had 5 losing seasons!

In terms of now, they built a very good roster, but their budding young superstar has been destroyed by injuries as has their recent #1 overall pick. You can obviously argue they should have picked Durant, but if Roy and Oden were healthy that would be a very good team.

They are far from the worst run.

I was just reading about the 1984 Draft, and Bobby Knight was good friends with the Portland GM at the time, and told him to 100% draft Michael Jordan, who he had been coaching in the Olympic trials..When the GM said they needed a center, Knight said "Well play him at Center then". He didn't listen, and the rest is history.

The Rockets and Blazers also had a deal worked out where the Blazers would send Clyde Drexler (about to start his 2nd year) and the #2 pick to Houston for Ralph Sampson. Houston would've picked Jordan at #2 to go along with Olujawon at #1, and would have had Hakeem, Mike, and Clyde beginning in 1984....The Blazers decided they wanted Bowie and to keep Drexler at the last minute..CRAZY!

[mweb]

It isn't the talent of the players assembled that people here have issues with. They have talent, but it can't stay on the court long enough to do anything. Every team has injuries, but with the Blazers it is ridiculous. This clearly goes beyond bad luck. Something is seriously wrong, either in how they evaluate the health of the players they draft/sign or in how the training staff handles them in-season. Or both.

Eh, maybe. I don't recall hearing that Roy was injury prone when he came into the league. Even Oden wasn't supposed to be injury prone as far as I recall.

Either way, they are far from the worst team in the NBA right now and they are far from the worst run team in the NBA now or in the past. Their track record is quite good as I showed. Not everyone can be the Lakers, Celtics, or Spurs.

[mweb]

I was just reading about the 1984 Draft, and Bobby Knight was good friends with the Portland GM at the time, and told him to 100% draft Michael Jordan, who he had been coaching in the Olympic trials..When the GM said they needed a center, Knight said "Well play him at Center then". He didn't listen, and the rest is history.

The Rockets and Blazers also had a deal worked out where the Blazers would send Clyde Drexler (about to start his 2nd year) and the #2 pick to Houston for Ralph Sampson. Houston would've picked Jordan at #2 to go along with Olujawon at #1, and would have had Hakeem, Mike, and Clyde beginning in 1984....The Blazers decided they wanted Bowie and to keep Drexler at the last minute..CRAZY!

That would have been insane.

Even though I've been defending the Blazers, they have clearly made two huge draft blunders.

[Birds of B'more]

I was just reading about the 1984 Draft, and Bobby Knight was good friends with the Portland GM at the time, and told him to 100% draft Michael Jordan, who he had been coaching in the Olympic trials..When the GM said they needed a center, Knight said "Well play him at Center then". He didn't listen, and the rest is history.

The Rockets and Blazers also had a deal worked out where the Blazers would send Clyde Drexler (about to start his 2nd year) and the #2 pick to Houston for Ralph Sampson. Houston would've picked Jordan at #2 to go along with Olujawon at #1, and would have had Hakeem, Mike, and Clyde beginning in 1984....The Blazers decided they wanted Bowie and to keep Drexler at the last minute..CRAZY!

They did eventually end up with Kevin Duckworth though, who played a decent center for them. If you're looking at it strictly from a Sampson vs Drexler standpoint, then Drexler was the better guy for Portland. Of course that still doesn't excuse the Bowie over Jordan pick. Still, how many championship banners would be hanging in the rafters at Houston today had that trade gone down?

[Birds of B'more]

Eh, maybe. I don't recall hearing that Roy was injury prone when he came into the league. Even Oden wasn't supposed to be injury prone as far as I recall.

Either way, they are far from the worst team in the NBA right now and they are far from the worst run team in the NBA now or in the past. Their track record is quite good as I showed. Not everyone can be the Lakers, Celtics, or Spurs.

I look at it like this....there are two types of NBA franchises right now. The ones that want to and are trying to win a championship, and those that are merely trying to keep from going bankrupt (or in the case of the Clippers, exist strictly to make a profit). I put the Blazers in the former category, and of those franchises I can't think of any that are being run worse than the Blazers right now. Of course the Knicks held that title for quite a while, but after they dumped Isaiah Thomas, it was the Blazers turn to wear the crown.

[mweb]

I look at it like this....there are two types of NBA franchises right now. The ones that want to and are trying to win a championship, and those that are merely trying to keep from going bankrupt (or in the case of the Clippers, exist strictly to make a profit). I put the Blazers in the former category, and of those franchises I can't think of any that are being run worse than the Blazers right now. Of course the Knicks held that title for quite a while, but after they dumped Isaiah Thomas, it was the Blazers turn to wear the crown.

I just don't see how that's a justifiable position. They've won 104 games the last two seasons and have a winning record despite the injuries this year. If you want to totally blame them for the injuries, then I guess you could have that position, but that seems absurd to me.

[beaner]

They did eventually end up with Kevin Duckworth though, who played a decent center for them. If you're looking at it strictly from a Sampson vs Drexler standpoint, then Drexler was the better guy for Portland. Of course that still doesn't excuse the Bowie over Jordan pick. Still, how many championship banners would be hanging in the rafters at Houston today had that trade gone down?

Yea, it was definitely a what might have been for the Rockets moreso than anyone else..That changes the history of the league if it goes down.

[beaner]

Watching Heat/Thunder, and Oklahoma City just cannot get a rebound in the 4th quarter...Collison is on the bench for Ibaka (so they can go more athletic), but Collison protects the rim so much better than Serge..As i type this, Miami just got another putback for an easy hoop.

They could really use a Camby type..

[Birds of B'more]

Watching Heat/Thunder, and Oklahoma City just cannot get a rebound in the 4th quarter...Collison is on the bench for Ibaka (so they can go more athletic), but Collison protects the rim so much better than Serge..As i type this, Miami just got another putback for an easy hoop.

They could really use a Camby type..

If they were smart, the Blazers would make Camby available. By all accounts he's doing well after having the torn meniscus in his knee repaired and could even return before the ASB. But it seems like they are also trying to dangle Joel Pryzbilla's expiring contract. If they trade them both then they are hurting at center and either have to move Aldridge there or play Sean Marks, neither of which is a good option, but who cares at this point? They need to start a rebuild right now. Unfortunately it seems like they would rather try and cling to the #8 playoff seed, a first round exit, and then hopelessly pray that Roy and Oden will somehow miraculously heal and form the nucleus of a contending team. Just delusional. :rolleyes:

[mweb]

So there's some issues in Lakerland.

The loss at home to the C's was pretty bad.

Artest apparently wants out and his having an awful season; thus, making it very difficult to trade him.

Kupchak has said he may have to make a trade to shake things up.

Barnes, who is perhaps the best SF option, is injured.

They only have the 5th best record in the league.

Yet, they still have a very record and average point margin and much of the same roster that won back to back titles. So obviously there's still plent of reason to be optimistic.

I think Artest and the SF position is by far the biggest issue right now. PG isn't that good either, but we knew that going in and those guys play their role pretty well. However, Artest has continued to decline defensively and often looks lost offensively. Barnes is out, so that leaves Walton as the primary backup, and he's obviously nothing special.

While Barnes heals, I'd advocate playing Odom and Kobe more at the 3 while increasing Brown's minutes at the 2 and increase Bynum's minutes. This has been happening to a degree, but I'd go further with it.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Bill Simmons made some sort of trade machine deal featuring Andrew Bynum and Danny Granger...

[mweb]

Bill Simmons made some sort of trade machine deal featuring Andrew Bynum and Danny Granger...

I don't see where he did that so I'm not sure who else he had involved, but I'm not very interested in that. I'd rather not bring in someone who needs the ball much. Plus Bynum is very important to the teams title chances imo.

Someone like Ariza would be nice. Oh wait, they had him and basically traded him for Artest.:bangwall:

[mweb]

Well another loss against an elite team for the Lakers.

BTW, is the perception that the Heat are Wade's team still the case?

That was one of the big arguments people had against him going to the Heat, and it seems that it was greatly overblown.

[beaner]

Well another loss against an elite team for the Lakers.

BTW, is the perception that the Heat are Wade's team still the case?
That was one of the big arguments people had against him going to the Heat, and it seems that it was greatly overblown.

Off the court, perhaps, but not if anyone watches them play. LeBron continues to be on another level from the rest..

He'll win his third straight MVP, unless the voters don't allow it becuase of "The Decision". If someone else wins it, we may see LeBron step up in the playoffs a la MJ when he destroyed Barkley & Malone in the '93 & 97 finals when they were MVP's.

[mweb]

Off the court, perhaps, but not if anyone watches them play. LeBron continues to be on another level from the rest..

He'll win his third straight MVP, unless the voters don't allow it becuase of "The Decision". If someone else wins it, we may see LeBron step up in the playoffs a la MJ when he destroyed Barkley & Malone in the '93 & 97 finals when they were MVP's.

Yeah, and even in terms of the media it seems like it's LeBron's Heat at least as much as Wade's.

Which is the way it should be considering he's easily the best player in the league, thus the best player on his own team.

[Pedro Cerrano]

The only reason that there exists the perception that it's "Wade's Team" is beacuse he was already there and LeBron came to him.

There's not a person on the planet that believes Wade is the better player.

[Pedro Cerrano]

So, are the Blazers still worse than the Cavs?

[Birds of B'more]

No....but when you get blown out on your home court by the Kings, you aren't far behind the Cavs. Aldridge blew up again last night. They need to trade that guy ASAP and start the rebuild. His value on the market will never be higher than it is right now.

[beaner]

So, are the Blazers still worse than the Cavs?

This takes me back to the old "ESPN likes Boston & New York" argument that I used to argue to the death that they care about the winning teams, not their location. The Cavs aren't on TV much anymore these days...weird. ;)

[mweb]

No....but when you get blown out on your home court by the Kings, you aren't far behind the Cavs. Aldridge blew up again last night. They need to trade that guy ASAP and start the rebuild. His value on the market will never be higher than it is right now.

Oh yes they were and are very far behind the Cavs.

Quite the overreaction to one game.

The Lakers got handled at home by the Bucks and lost at home to the Kings. The bad teams occasionally beat much better teams.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Rumor that the Lakers and Nuggets have discussed Bynum for Carmelo.

[Pedro Cerrano]

The Lakers would HAVE to do this. First off, Carmelo has said he will only extend with the Knicks but I dare him to turn down a deal to play for the Lakers, with Kobe, Gasol, Odom etc etc. Put it on the table and let him turn it down to play in New York.

This deal would pretty much guarantee a 3peat. There isn't a team in the league (save maybe Miami) that could score with a team that has Kobe, Carmelo and Gasol on the floor at the same time...

[mweb]

The Lakers would HAVE to do this. First off, Carmelo has said he will only extend with the Knicks but I dare him to turn down a deal to play for the Lakers, with Kobe, Gasol, Odom etc etc. Put it on the table and let him turn it down to play in New York.

This deal would pretty much guarantee a 3peat. There isn't a team in the league (save maybe Miami) that could score with a team that has Kobe, Carmelo and Gasol on the floor at the same time...

I would be very curious to how they would share the ball and I think there is potential for a big issue with that and with the learning curve of the triangle offense.

The other obvious issue would be a lack of bigs. Would the Lakers be getting a big from the Nuggets?

It would solve the SF issue though and obviously the upside of the move would be enormous.

[Dr. FLK]

Kobe, Melo, Gasol, Odom...I really want to see what that team can do.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Kobe, Melo, Gasol, Odom...I really want to see what that team can do.

Me too....

[Birds of B'more]

I don't understand why Denver would want Bynum as the centerpiece of the deal, unless there are some draft picks going back too. Bynum is a great talent who could be one of the top centers in the league, but can never put it all together because he can never stay healthy. I mean, come on....the guy has Portland Frail Blazers written all over him. I'm thinking Paul Allen will jump in on this immediately to see if a 3-team deal can work. :rolleyes:

[MikeAD]

That would be nasty, can't really say I have reservations about Pau at Center, since they have a better record with him at Center than with Bynum.

What is the deal with Artest? Apologies I don't follow the NBA until the end of February....

[mweb]

That would be nasty, can't really say I have reservations about Pau at Center, since they have a better record with him at Center than with Bynum.

What is the deal with Artest? Apologies I don't follow the NBA until the end of February....

Gasol at C is not a problem imo, but 20 minutes a game of Derrick Caracter, Joe Smith, and Theo Ratliff is.

[ChaosLex]

Not a Lakers fan typically, but I'll be one if they meet the Heat in the Finals. :hearts:

26 straight losses for Cleveland now. *sigh*

[Pedro Cerrano]

Not a Lakers fan typically, but I'll be one if they meet the Heat in the Finals. :hearts:

26 straight losses for Cleveland now. *sigh*

The Cavs have a real shot to beat the Wizards on Sunday in Cleveland. The Wizards don't have a road win yet this year.

[beaner]

Nothing personal against anyone, but I just had a thought. Is bandwagon hate as ridiculous as bandwagon love?

For example, I doubt anyone "hated" the Heat 6 months ago.

[Dr. FLK]

Nothing personal against anyone, but I just had a thought. Is bandwagon hate as ridiculous as bandwagon love?

For example, I doubt anyone "hated" the Heat 6 months ago.

But a lot of people hated LeBron 6 months ago.

[beaner]

But a lot of people hated LeBron 6 months ago.

I think he was pretty well liked until "The Decision". Would he have been a hero if he stayed in Cleveland? I say yes.

[Dr. FLK]

I think he was pretty well liked until "The Decision". Would he have been a hero if he stayed in Cleveland? I say yes.

Would he have been well-liked if he wasn't a d-bag? Of course! Trouble is...he's a giant d-bag.

[beaner]

Would he have been well-liked if he wasn't a d-bag? Of course! Trouble is...he's a giant d-bag.

Well, yeah, but...

[lordbrook]

Jerry Sloan just resigned. As a Jazz fan I feel like someone just punched me in the gut. Rumor is that he and Deron Williams didn't get along and Sloan was sick of his crap. Most people here are pissed about this rumor. Sad day for coaches everywhere. Players should never dictate who coaches. It's like negotiating with terrorists.

[backwardsk]

The Cavs have a real shot to beat the Wizards on Sunday in Cleveland. The Wizards don't have a road win yet this year.

If the Clips beat the Cavs tomorrow, it'll set up a great matchup. Something's gotta give.

[Sports Guy]

Kobe, Melo, Gasol, Odom...I really want to see what that team can do.

Not as good as they would do with a healthy Bynum.

BTW, Ray Allen is just an amazing shooter.

[Dr. FLK]

Not as good as they would do with a healthy Bynum.

BTW, Ray Allen is just an amazing shooter.

But what are the chances of that? When gigantic men start having trouble with their legs, how frequently do those problems go away? I have no faith in Bynum remaining healthy on a consistent enough basis to keep me from pulling the trigger on getting Melo.

[Sports Guy]

But what are the chances of that? When gigantic men start having trouble with their legs, how frequently do those problems go away? I have no faith in Bynum remaining healthy on a consistent enough basis to keep me from pulling the trigger on getting Melo.

If they could sign Melo long term, I am in full agreement with you.

But if they get Melo now, how quickly can they get him to learn the triangle? Will he be able to co-exist with Kobe?

Also, the Lakers will all of a sudden be a much smaller team and right now, their size is a big advantage and it is needed if they play a Boston in the finals...Or if they play Miami, their size is a big advantage in the half court vs the Heat.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Not as good as they would do with a healthy Bynum.

BTW, Ray Allen is just an amazing shooter.

It's very debatable able whether the Lakers would be better with Bynum or Anthony. If I was guaranteed that Bynum would be able to play 70ish games per year I'd pass on the deal. He is so damn good and is a real game changer, he just can't keep his knees healthy.

I'm of the mindset that, size and length be damned, a team with Kobe, Carmelo and Gasol may MAY be a team featuring the most gifted players in the league offensively at the 2, 3 and 5. I don't see any team being able to score with them.

BTW, Kobe and 'Melo are close friends after the olympics so I imagine that their friendship combined with Phil's ability to handle egos would make it work. I also think 'Melo would extend in LA.

Finally agree on Ray Allen, the best shooter in the history of the NBA.

[Pedro Cerrano]

BTW, huge win for the Lakers tonight. They needed to make a statement and they did. Boston scored 33 pts in the second half.

[waroriole]

Finally agree on Ray Allen, the best shooter in the history of the NBA.

I might go with Wesley Person, but Ray is a close second.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I might go with Wesley Person, but Ray is a close second.

He was a 77% FT shooter.

No chance.

[waroriole]

He was a 77% FT shooter.

No chance.

Was he really? Wow. From the floor he had the sweetest stroke I've ever seen.

[Sports Guy]

I might go with Wesley Person, but Ray is a close second.

Good shooter but not in the class of Allen and Reggie.

[Sports Guy]

It's very debatable able whether the Lakers would be better with Bynum or Anthony. If I was guaranteed that Bynum would be able to play 70ish games per year I'd pass on the deal. He is so damn good and is a real game changer, he just can't keep his knees healthy.

I'm of the mindset that, size and length be damned, a team with Kobe, Carmelo and Gasol may MAY be a team featuring the most gifted players in the league offensively at the 2, 3 and 5. I don't see any team being able to score with them.

BTW, Kobe and 'Melo are close friends after the olympics so I imagine that their friendship combined with Phil's ability to handle egos would make it work. I also think 'Melo would extend in LA.

Finally agree on Ray Allen, the best shooter in the history of the NBA.

Well if you can get Melo to sign an immediate extension, that would make the deal much different...because even if they don't win it this year, they probably would next year.

But Melo isn't signing an extension in LA and I am not even sure if their cap situation would allow it at this point.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Well if you can get Melo to sign an immediate extension, that would make the deal much different...because even if they don't win it this year, they probably would next year.

But Melo isn't signing an extension in LA and I am not even sure if their cap situation would allow it at this point.

If they lose Bynum's contract they'd have enough room.

There's no way to know for sure, but I can bet you that Carmelo would take a long hard look at a max deal offered by the Lakers. He'd get a chance to win numerous titles, live in LA (his wife is some celebrity) and I believe he owns a house there already. Plus, like I mentioned, he and Kobe are close.

[mweb]

Yes, big win for the Lakers and one that likely keeps them from pulling the trigger on a Melo trade.

BTW, sources close to Melo indicated that he'd be willing to extend in LA.

[mweb]

It's very debatable able whether the Lakers would be better with Bynum or Anthony. If I was guaranteed that Bynum would be able to play 70ish games per year I'd pass on the deal. He is so damn good and is a real game changer, he just can't keep his knees healthy.

I'm of the mindset that, size and length be damned, a team with Kobe, Carmelo and Gasol may MAY be a team featuring the most gifted players in the league offensively at the 2, 3 and 5. I don't see any team being able to score with them.BTW, Kobe and 'Melo are close friends after the olympics so I imagine that their friendship combined with Phil's ability to handle egos would make it work. I also think 'Melo would extend in LA.

Finally agree on Ray Allen, the best shooter in the history of the NBA.

I'd say the Heat have as much offensive talent, if not more from their big three. Of course they don't have a 4th player as good as Odom though.

I also don't see a case for Melo being the most gifted or best offensive SF. James and Durant are clearly better imo.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I'd say the Heat have as much offensive talent, if not more from their big three. Of course they don't have a 4th player as good as Odom though.

I also don't see a case for Melo being the most gifted or best offensive SF. James and Durant are clearly better imo.

I mean it's very hard to argue against either LBJ or Durant but I'd say that LeBron isn't even a pure 3 anymore, he plays a ton of positions on that team. As for Durant, he's certainly awesome but I can't say that he's definitively better than Carmelo from a pure offensive standpoint...

[mweb]

I mean it's very hard to argue against either LBJ or Durant but I'd say that LeBron isn't even a pure 3 anymore, he plays a ton of positions on that team. As for Durant, he's certainly awesome but I can't say that he's definitively better than Carmelo from a pure offensive standpoint...

LeBron may not be a pure 3, but if forced to list him at a position, I think it would be SF.

Durant is leading the league in scoring for the second straight year, shoots a higher % from the field, the FT line, and is the better 3 point shooter. The advanced numbers also easily favor Durant. They both are mediocre at best in terms of passing. I have no problem saying Durant's definitively better.

[backwardsk]

Wizards are road warriors. Cleveland will never win a game again.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Well, I'm fed up.

[Dr. FLK]

Well, I'm fed up.

They have to shake things up somehow, don't they?

[mweb]

The Lakers are the worst team in the NBA!!!!!:mad:;):D

[beaner]

The Lakers are the worst team in the NBA!!!!!:mad:;):D

Fire Gar...I mean, Phil!

[Sports Guy]

Long road trip..wanted to be home.

Meaningless loss.

[mweb]

I think Griffin won that more on hype than his actual dunks.

I don't even think he should have made the 2nd round. That's not really a knock on him, but the other guys had some great dunks.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I didn't see the dunk that won Blake the contest (I was out at a bar), but the JaVale dunk where he dunked two balls and then caught a third and dunked that was deceptively sick.

Btw, the dunk contest is my 3rd favorite All-Star Saturday event behind the skills competition and the 3 point contest.

[MRLeavey]

The dunk contest last night was one of the best in years. And I agree... The car thing was pretty eh.

Derozan's best dunk was incredible in slow-mo! And did I see this right (my night was well underway at this point)? Did Serge Ibaka actually bite something hanging off the rim? That's unbelievable. Javale did really well too. Dunking three balls was a great idea, and that rock the cradle dunk is not designed for a guy who is seven feet tall. WOW!

Awesome stuff last night! These guys are unbelievable athletes!

[mweb]

The dunk contest last night was one of the best in years. And I agree... The car thing was pretty eh.

Derozan's best dunk was incredible in slow-mo! And did I see this right (my night was well underway at this point)? Did Serge Ibaka actually bite something hanging off the rim? That's unbelievable. Javale did really well too. Dunking three balls was a great idea, and that rock the cradle dunk is not designed for a guy who is seven feet tall. WOW!

Awesome stuff last night! These guys are unbelievable athletes!

Yeah, Derozan's best dunk was better than anything Blake did. Both of Ibaka's dunks were really good and he got robbed on his behind the FT line dunk. I think the two ball Javale dunk was better than the three ball one, but both really good and original.

[Tank]

Yeah that was actually a really good dunk contest. Everybody was good. Blake got by on hype for sure though.

[adamwolff11]

David Stern knows how to make sure things go how he wants them. There was no way Blake Griffin wasn't winning that contest, short of him not even making a dunk. IMO he was the worst in the first round. I think JaVale was clearly the best in the first, with Ibaka and Derozan both very close for 2nd, and then considerably further back, Griffin.

It's a shame it has to be like that. It's sort of how whenever Nate Robinson and Dwight were in it, you knew that was going to be the final before the contest even started. I think leaving it to a fan vote is a terrible idea. McGee had no chance, nor did anyone against Griffin. Let's be real. It was very entertaining though, and he represented the Wiz well.

[mweb]

Carmelo to the Knicks (http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6145912). Finally.

[Sports Guy]

Carmelo to the Knicks (http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=6145912). Finally.

What a great deal by the Knicks.

I am not sure how Carmelo and Amare will work together and that team needs to learn how to play defense(when they get Chirs Paul, that will help) but they gave up spare parts to get an elite player and in the NBA, you always make that deal.

[Frobby]

I don't follow the NBA closely enough to have a good feel for the talent the Knicks gave up, but I predict the Knicks will be no factor at all for 2011 or 2012. Carmelo is overrated IMO.

[Sports Guy]

I don't follow the NBA closely enough to have a good feel for the talent the Knicks gave up, but I predict the Knicks will be no factor at all for 2011 or 2012. Carmelo is overrated IMO.

How so?????

[Pedro Cerrano]

The Knicks just went from the 6th best team in the East to the 5th, MAYBE the 4th.

Nice.

[Pedro Cerrano]

How so?????

Well for one he's bad defensively. Not that it matters on a D'Antoni-run team.

[Pedro Cerrano]

What a great deal by the Knicks.

I am not sure how Carmelo and Amare will work together and that team needs to learn how to play defense(when they get Chirs Paul, that will help) but they gave up spare parts to get an elite player and in the NBA, you always make that deal.

I disagree, especially when they could have simply signed him in the off-season. They gave up a ton here.

[Pedro Cerrano]

More thoughts:

1) People are overlooking how similar Amare and Carmelo are. Amare is, in my opinion, an oversized wing, he doesn't post up nearly as much as other traditional power forwards or centers.

2) This team was not good defensively before and they're awful now.

3) The Knicks gave up A LOT of talent here to get back Melo and an over the hill Billups. I'd really rather have Felton for the next few years than Chauncey and I don't even hate Billups that much (despite the 2004 finals). Knick fans seem to think its a foregone conclusion they'll sign either Paul or DWill which is a dangerous assumption considering the term "hard cap" is being tossed around as a term in the new CBA. If that happens, and the new cap limit is set at, say, $57 million, they'll already have a ton locked up into Amare and 'Melo and, sorry, Paul and DWill ain't signing anywhere for anything less than a max deal.

[Pedro Cerrano]

(when they get Chirs Paul, that will help) but they gave up spare parts to get an elite player and in the NBA, you always make that deal.

1) It's not a foregone conclusion they will get Paul. He will need to take a pay cut to play there. Obviously if they get him that changes everything.

2) As for the spare parts, those are the players you need to win a championship in the NBA. Every title team since the Showtime Lakers and 80s Celtics has had a healthy combination of stars and role players, and the stars needed to compliment each other, not work against each other. Right now the Knicks have two legitimate superstars who play zero defense and play a much more similar style of play than people are talking about (obviously Carmelo stretches D's a lot more with his outside shooting but watch a Knick game sometime and tell me how often Amare goes back-to-basket versus catch and shoot) with very few complimentary players to play their role.

This is not how you build an NBA Championship team.

[Sports Guy]

I disagree, especially when they could have simply signed him in the off-season. They gave up a ton here.

They MAYBE could have signed him in the offseason but that's a poor assumption.

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the uncertainty of the CBA...Melo was risking losing 20-40 million because of the expected drop in salary.

They gave up a decent package of role players but a package of role players is never worth a great player in the NBA.

[Sports Guy]

1) It's not a foregone conclusion they will get Paul. He will need to take a pay cut to play there. Obviously if they get him that changes everything.No, Paul could stay..again, it will depend on what the CBA says and if they do a franchise tag type thing.


2) As for the spare parts, those are the players you need to win a championship in the NBA. Every title team since the Showtime Lakers and 80s Celtics has had a healthy combination of stars and role players, and the stars needed to compliment each other, not work against each other. Right now the Knicks have two legitimate superstars who play zero defense and play a much more similar style of play than people are talking about (obviously Carmelo stretches D's a lot more with his outside shooting but watch a Knick game sometime and tell me how often Amare goes back-to-basket versus catch and shoot) with very few complimentary players to play their role.Wrong...you need stars to win in the NBA and its way harder to get a top star than it is to get some role players.

As Van Gundy said today, its much harder to obtain a star than it is to replace a role player.

Now, I do agree that the lack of defense is a killer but no way can you turn down this oppurtunity if you are the Knicks...or any other team for that matter.

Sorry but you are dead wrong here.

Outside of maybe the Pistons team that won in the mid 2000s, name me a team that has won a title, in the last 30 years, that didn't have 2 superstars?

[Sports Guy]

Well for one he's bad defensively. Not that it matters on a D'Antoni-run team.

He is bad defensively and he hasn't won anything(only been past first round once in career).

But he is a very good rebounder and a brilliant scorer.

I don't think he is overrated at all. He is a top player and an AS....He isn't the elite of the elite(and I don't think anyone says he is)...That category only has a few names in it.

[Sports Guy]

The Knicks just went from the 6th best team in the East to the 5th, MAYBE the 4th.

Nice.

The move wasn't done for this year though. I still expect them to be the 6th seed, maybe the 5th...That's about it...But I think they get bounced in the first round, either to Orlando or Chicago but they are more dangerous now, that's for sure.

[Pedro Cerrano]

No, Paul could stay..again, it will depend on what the CBA says and if they do a franchise tag type thing.

Wrong...you need stars to win in the NBA and its way harder to get a top star than it is to get some role players.

As Van Gundy said today, its much harder to obtain a star than it is to replace a role player.

Now, I do agree that the lack of defense is a killer but no way can you turn down this oppurtunity if you are the Knicks...or any other team for that matter.

Sorry but you are dead wrong here.

Outside of maybe the Pistons team that won in the mid 2000s, name me a team that has won a title, in the last 30 years, that didn't have 2 superstars?

You're more than right about needing more than one big gun, but as I said, you can't just throw two superstars together willy nilly and expect to win.

They need to compliment each other, play off each other's strengths and make up for each other's weaknesses.

In the case here, these two arent' necessarily the best compliments. Hell Amare couldn't win anything and that was playing with maybe the most brilliant PG of his generation and an outstanding stat filler (Marion).

Maybe we can just agree to disagree but when I see Amare and Carmelo I see two very similar players. They would both be much better off playing with a guy like Dwight Howard than each other.

BTW, I will debate until the cows come home that those Bulls teams had one superstar, it just happened to be the greatest player of all time. Scottie Pippen was the greatest role player in history, but that's for another thread.

[Frobby]

I don't follow the NBA closely enough to have a good feel for the talent the Knicks gave up, but I predict the Knicks will be no factor at all for 2011 or 2012. Carmelo is overrated IMO.


How so?????

Not a good defensive player, and doesn't have the kind of game that makes the players around him better. He doesn't shoot that high a percentage, and he doesn't get assists. The Nuggets have had him for 7+ years and made it out of the first round of the playoffs one time.

If you look at the basketball equivalent of sabermetric stats, Anthony is not that impressive. He scores a lot, because he shoots a lot.

[Sports Guy]

You're more than right about needing more than one big gun, but as I said, you can't just throw two superstars together willy nilly and expect to win.

They need to compliment each other, play off each other's strengths and make up for each other's weaknesses.

In the case here, these two arent' necessarily the best compliments. Hell Amare couldn't win anything and that was playing with maybe the most brilliant PG of his generation and an outstanding stat filler (Marion).

Maybe we can just agree to disagree but when I see Amare and Carmelo I see two very similar players. They would both be much better off playing with a guy like Dwight Howard than each other.

BTW, I will debate until the cows come home that those Bulls teams had one superstar, it just happened to be the greatest player of all time. Scottie Pippen was the greatest role player in history, but that's for another thread.
Ehh, Melo is more of a wing player than Amare. Put it this way, if they add a real PG(Paul or DWilliams), there 3some will compliment each other better than the Miami trio.

Pippen was one of the NBAs 50 greatest players...He wasn't a role player. The year after Jordan left, Pippen still led them to the playoffs and i THINK they were a 50ish win team.

[Sports Guy]

Not a good defensive player, and doesn't have the kind of game that makes the players around him better. He doesn't shoot that high a percentage, and he doesn't get assists. The Nuggets have had him for 7+ years and made it out of the first round of the playoffs one time.

If you look at the basketball equivalent of sabermetric stats, Anthony is not that impressive. He scores a lot, because he shoots a lot.

46% from the field is pretty solid. You are making it seem like he is Arenas or Iverson and that's far from the truth.

He should play better defense but the rest of your argument doesn't really apply for the type of player Melo is.

[Frobby]

He is bad defensively and he hasn't won anything(only been past first round once in career).

But he is a very good rebounder and a brilliant scorer.

I don't think he is overrated at all. He is a top player and an AS....He isn't the elite of the elite(and I don't think anyone says he is)...That category only has a few names in it.

As to whether Carmelo is overrated, it depends on how you think he is rated by the public. Judging from the last two weeks, I'd say ESPN has him somewhere between LeBron James and Jesus.

I think the general perception of Anthony is that he is in the top 10 players in the NBA, and probably closer to 5 than 10. But to me, I doubt he's in the top 20.

He's shooting 45.2%, slightly below the league average. For his career, he's at 45.9%. He's got a career assist/TO percentage of 1:1. I just don't see him as one of the very top players in the game.

[Frobby]

46% from the field is pretty solid. You are making it seem like he is Arenas or Iverson and that's far from the truth.

He should play better defense but the rest of your argument doesn't really apply for the type of player Melo is.

To me, if you are going to take a very high percentage of your team's shots, and rarely pass the ball, then you'd better have a shooting percentage that is better than league average. Otherwise, I don't see how you are helping your team to be any better than average on offense.

[mweb]

I think it was a risky deal that certainly has upside, but I tend to side with Pedro on this. If the Knicks do get Paul or Williams, then that will be great and they may truly be a contender if Amare and Paul(if he's the PG they get) can stay healthy despite the big risks associated with them.

Otherwise, I do think Melo is overrated because of the reasons already stated. He's very good, but not a top 10 player imo and neither is Amare.

I agree with Pedro that they aren't a strong fit together because they both like to operate in similar spots and neither are much of passers. More importantly imo, Melo is not a good fit for a D'Antoni offense because the ball tends to stop when it gets to him, he's not much of a passer, he's not much of a 3pt shooter, and he's not an explosive finisher the way Amare is. Outside shooting, passing, explosive finishing, working without the ball, and making quick shoots/decisions are important in this offense. That's not really Melo.

Three of the players the Knicks gave up are D'antoni offense guys: Felton, Chandler, and Gallinari. I also wouldn't call these guys spare parts. A 26 year old PG who is putting up 17 and 9 and two SF's who are averaging 16 points a game at the ages of 22 and 23.

But I'm sure they'll manage to work decently together. It's just not a combination that's as good of a fit as Nash/Amare, Kobe/Gasol, Duncan/Manu/Parker, The C's, Williams or Rose/Boozer, Durant/Westbrook, etc. And while James and Wade may not be a great fit, that's the best player in the league with another top 5 player and a top 20 or so player who is a good fit with them.

It certainly would have been a risk, but waiting it out to see if they could land him in free agency may have been the best move, but that's hard to know.

With all that said, it can still work out because he is very good and they may be able to lure a top PG. They are not a contender unless that happens though imo.

[mweb]

As far as being a title team or contender without a superstar, I'd say the Celtics haven't really had a superstar during this run. But I guess that depends on your definition of superstar. They have former superstars and an emerging one, but no one that is a top 15 or maybe even 20 player imo.

[mweb]

As far as getting Paul or Williams, Chad Ford has this to say:


The common theory has the Knicks making a play for Chris Paul, Deron Williams or even Dwight Howard in the summer of 2012. It's a nice dream. And if you believe the rumors, it sounds like Paul and Williams would both like to join Melo and Stoudemire in Gotham.

But there's one problem: Under every scenario I could come up with, the Knicks are unlikely to have the money to make a competitive offer to a major free agent next summer or possess the assets to trade for him beforehand.



If Knicks fans are happy with 45-to-50 wins per season and a likely first-round exit from the playoffs, then this was a winning move. But for all the Knicks fans who say that nothing but a title contender will make them happy, this deal may have actually put their team further from their goal than they think.

[Sports Guy]

As far as getting Paul or Williams, Chad Ford has this to say:

Even if they don't get one of the PGs, they are clearly a better team with Melo than the package of role players they dealt for him.

[Sports Guy]

BTW, another good part of this deal is the acquisition of Billups, who is making 14 million next year...but that's the last year of the deal.

So, they end up with either a great trade asset in an expiring contract or they lose him after year and a lot of cap space opens up.

[Pedro Cerrano]

BTW, another good part of this deal is the acquisition of Billups, who is making 14 million next year...but that's the last year of the deal.

So, they end up with either a great trade asset in an expiring contract or they lose him after year and a lot of cap space opens up.

Eh, I'd much rather have Felton. I don't know how the deal worked out and who demanded what but if the Knicks insisted on getting Billups back and were willing to part with Felton then that was a dumb move IMO.

I do agree that he's a nice trade chip next year to a team that could use a PG for a playoff run or to a team that is looking to rebuild and will take the $14MM in cap relief.

[Sports Guy]

Eh, I'd much rather have Felton. I don't know how the deal worked out and who demanded what but if the Knicks insisted on getting Billups back and were willing to part with Felton then that was a dumb move IMO.

I do agree that he's a nice trade chip next year to a team that could use a PG for a playoff run or to a team that is looking to rebuild and will take the $14MM in cap relief.

Billups is probably the guy to have in the playoffs..but his expiring contract is the bigger reason.

[mweb]

The Knicks also dealt the expiring contract of Eddy Curry, which is over 11M. Felton's deal expires the same time as Billups and is worth 7M a year.

Now the Knicks will save some money with the others involved in the trade, but that will be more than offset by Melo making over 20M a year.

So the Knicks aren't really benefiting in terms of expiring contracts and I'd also rather have Felton than Billups for this year and next.

And they apparently likely won't have enough money for Paul/Williams. So sure, they're are likely better off, but there's a good chance they'll be left in the in between zone Billy Beane talks about in SG's quote except they'll be making the playoffs due how many teams make it.

[Sports Guy]

The Knicks also dealt the expiring contract of Eddy Curry, which is over 11M. Felton's deal expires the same time as Billups and is worth 7M a year.

Now the Knicks will save some money with the others involved in the trade, but that will be more than offset by Melo making over 20M a year.

So the Knicks aren't really benefiting in terms of expiring contracts and I'd also rather have Felton than Billups for this year and next.

And they apparently likely won't have enough money for Paul/Williams. So sure, they're are likely better off, but there's a good chance they'll be left in the in between zone Billy Beane talks about in SG's quote except they'll be making the playoffs due how many teams make it.

No one knows that.

Chad Ford throwing that out there is meaningless.(and btw, others have said it will happen)

There is zero doubt they will have money available...whether it will be enough money or not is up in the air...It just depends on how the new CBA is structured.

Also, losing Curry is great for NY now but the idea is to have as much money freed up as possible for next offseason and that's why Billups is important.

They may end up trading for DWill or Paul during the season next year for all we know and Billups will be a valuable trade chip there as well.

Also, they are now better set up to get one of those guys because they now have Melo. Without melo, those guys may not go there.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Deron Williams traded to the Nets for Favors and Devin Harris.

[mweb]

Deron Williams traded to the Nets for Favors and Devin Harris.

NJ's consolation prize is better than the main target. Williams is the better player here and would have been the better fit for the Knicks.

So there goes one option for the Knicks if the Nets sign him to an extension. And they wouldn't have enough money in free agency for him or Paul even if the cap stays the same, so I'm not sure how that's meaningless, but whatever. It would be very hard for them to put together a desirable package to trade for Paul or Howard as well. Billups expiring deal would be about the only truly valuable part unless they want to include Landry Fields.

Anyway, an interesting move and one that pretty much kills the season for the Jazz.

[Sports Guy]

Deron Williams traded to the Nets for Favors and Devin Harris.

Well that came out of no where.

New Jersey has DWill for next year but will they be able to extend him beyond next year? That will be a key.

If not, then this deal doesn't help them.

I am a huge fan of Favors.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I'd rather build around Williams and Lopez than Melo and Amare.

[mweb]

I'd rather build around Williams and Lopez than Melo and Amare.

Plus the former leaves enough money to be able to land a max contract guy while the latter probably doesn't unless the max contract is lowered quite a bit while the cap isn't.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Plus the former leaves enough money to be able to land a max contract guy while the latter probably doesn't unless the max contract is lowered quite a bit while the cap isn't.

Like say Dwight Howard?

How sick would that team be?

DWill
SG that can shoot and not turn the ball over (think Mike Miller)
SF that is a lock down defender (think Ron Artest in his prime or Bruce Bowen)
Lopez
Howard

The East is the new West.

[mweb]

Like say Dwight Howard?

How sick would that team be?

DWill
SG that can shoot and not turn the ball over (think Mike Miller)
SF that is a lock down defender (think Ron Artest in his prime or Bruce Bowen)
Lopez
Howard

The East is the new West.

Well Howard is going to be a Laker.:pray:

But yeah, if they got him that would be quite impressive.

The only problem for them is they are paying Travis Outlaw 7M a year for 5 years for some dumb reason. So that hurts their cap space. They already have Morrow for that SG slot.

I think if they could get Howard, they should deal Lopez for someone who can help at one of the forwards since I'm not sure Lopez and Howard are a good fit since they both are true centers.

So the Nets just got Brandan Wright from the Warriors who is a good young talent.

[Sports Guy]

I'd rather build around Williams and Lopez than Melo and Amare.


Plus the former leaves enough money to be able to land a max contract guy while the latter probably doesn't unless the max contract is lowered quite a bit while the cap isn't.

Of course, Lopez has to be signed long term himself.

It will be interesting to see if these FAs, like Paul, Howard, etc..will take less money to go to a more desirable situation like the trio in Miami did.

[BaltimoreTerp]

So, is Utah going to hire back Jerry Sloan?

I guess once it came out that Williams was going to be looking elsewhere when his contract ends it became inevitable that he would be a trade target, like Carmelo. But not this quickly.

Also, apparently the Warriors are involved in this deal somehow.

[BaltimoreTerp]

http://twitter.com/Lockedonsports/status/40453357130752000


Deron Williams told me it was not his choice. He is stunned. Declined to do interview until he figures out what it all means.

EDIT: Also from the same account


Alternate thought. If nba lookout takes away next season and players contracts move forward this is an astute forward thinking move

...

To clarify if lockout cost nba the season this was the last chance the Jazz had to make a trade and get something for Deron Williams

[Sports Guy]

http://twitter.com/Lockedonsports/status/40453357130752000

Which tells me that an extension is far from definite.

[mweb]

Now that we know Williams was available, I really think the Knicks should have dealt for him instead of Melo if possible and they may have ended up with all 3 of them. They get the better player and better fit for their team and Melo could have still made it to free agency with the option of going to the Knicks.

[Sports Guy]

Now that we know Williams was available, I really think the Knicks should have dealt for him instead of Melo if possible and they may have ended up with all 3 of them. They get the better player and better fit for their team and Melo could have still made it to free agency with the option of going to the Knicks.

Melo probably wouldn't have hit free agency.

Also, who says the Jazz would have traded DWill for the package the Nuggets got?

[mweb]

Melo probably wouldn't have hit free agency.

Also, who says the Jazz would have traded DWill for the package the Nuggets got?

I said if possible so no need for the second line. We don't know about the first, but I'd rather have Williams than Melo anyway.

[Sports Guy]

I said if possible so no need for the second line. We don't know about the first, but I'd rather have Williams than Melo anyway.

I can see that...But if DWill doesn't extend, then I would rather have Melo.

But this is a guard's game, so in a lot of cases I would rather have the elite PG over the wing player.

[lordbrook]

I don't think anyone outside of Utah would have seen this, but for those of us who follow the Jazz closely it wasn't a huge shock. He's too much of a problem off the court to play here anymore. Don't get me wrong, he is an outstanding player and the Jazz will be worse off without him, but he's been griping too much lately. I don't think it was much of a secret that he didn't want to stay here and this is a team that values loyalty. People are still pissed at Karl Malone for playing a year in LA, and Derek Fisher is a swear word. I was surprised at how many people were booing Williams the game after Sloan retired.

[lordbrook]

http://twitter.com/Lockedonsports/status/40453357130752000


This is the radio guy for the Jazz games and he has a local sports show where he has weekly interviews with Jazz front office people and used to with Larry Miller (owner) before he died. I would trust anything he said about the Jazz.

[Sports Guy]

The Jazz also got 2 first round picks, both of which are very likely to be lottery picks.

Great trade for them. They got a much better package than the Nuggets got.

For what I heard, the Jazz felt that DWill wouldn't sign there and they didn't want to be held hostage like the Nuggets were and didn't want him to walk for nothing, so they decided to make a deal now. Very smart move on their part.

[lordbrook]

The Jazz also got 2 first round picks, both of which are very likely to be lottery picks.

Great trade for them. They got a much better package than the Nuggets got.

For what I heard, the Jazz felt that DWill wouldn't sign there and they didn't want to be held hostage like the Nuggets were and didn't want him to walk for nothing, so they decided to make a deal now. Very smart move on their part.

Yeah and there are people confirming now that they didn't think he was happy here and definitely didn't want him dictating what city he would be dealt to and under what circumstances. In the presser yesterday the question was asked of the owner whether the trade had anything to do with the retirement of Sloan and he said that as long as his family has anything to do with the Jazz their support will go first to the coach, no matter what, and second to the players.

[Pedro Cerrano]

If anyone out there has soured on the NBA following MJ's retirement and the late 90's malaise, I'd encourage them to watch the playoffs this year, particularly in the East (where the most people live).

It's gonna be amazing.

[mweb]

If anyone out there has soured on the NBA following MJ's retirement and the late 90's malaise, I'd encourage them to watch the playoffs this year, particularly in the East (where the most people live).

It's gonna be amazing.

I'm actually starting to think that only two series' will likely be really good in the East: 2-3 matchup and obviously the finals.

I'm not convinced that any of the Magic, Hawks, or Knicks are real threats to any of the top 3 teams. I guess the Magic-Hawks could be a pretty good series, but I doubt I'll be that excited for it.

But yeah, the matchups between the 3 best teams should be great.

I think the 1-4 matchup in the West should be better than the one in the East because OKC(if they are the #4) could challenge the Spurs and have two great and exciting players (both better than anyone on the Knicks btw).

And Mavs-Lakers would be really good as well.

The WCF's should be great as well.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I'm actually starting to think that only two series' will likely be really good in the East: 2-3 matchup and obviously the finals.

I'm not convinced that any of the Magic, Hawks, or Knicks are real threats to any of the top 3 teams. I guess the Magic-Hawks could be a pretty good series, but I doubt I'll be that excited for it.

But yeah, the matchups between the 3 best teams should be great.

I think the 1-4 matchup in the West should be better than the one in the East because OKC(if they are the #4) could challenge the Spurs and have two great and exciting players (both better than anyone on the Knicks btw).

And Mavs-Lakers would be really good as well.

The WCF's should be great as well.

I just think it's a shame that so many people (that I know at least) won't watch because the league:

1) is filled with thugs

2) nobody plays defense

3) nobody cares

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[mweb]

I just think it's a shame that so many people (that I know at least) won't watch because the league:

1) is filled with thugs

2) nobody plays defense

3) nobody cares

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yeah, those are dumb opinions imo.

I'm way more into the NBA than college ball, but I know I'm in the minority on here.

[mweb]

1-Deron Williams
2-LeBron James
3-Amare
4-Dirk Nowitski
5-Derrick Rose
6-Russell Westbrook
7-Kevin Love
8-Dwight Howard
9-Chris Paul
1,396-Andray Blatche

Would it be right to assume that your #1 has fallen quite far on your list or entirely off it?;)

[Pedro Cerrano]

Yeah, those are dumb opinions imo.

I'm way more into the NBA than college ball, but I know I'm in the minority on here.

The NBA is infinitely more fun to watch than college IMO.

[Sports Guy]

The NBA is infinitely more fun to watch than college IMO.

Ugghhh...The NBA blows until a few series happen in the playoffs and the occassional game during the season.

[Sports Guy]

Kendrick traded to the Thunder for Jeff Green and Kristic.

I am surprised that the Celtics would give up some of that size.

Battier dealt to the Grizzlies for Thabeet and a first rounder.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Ugghhh...The NBA blows until a few series happen in the playoffs and the occassional game during the season.

Yes and the college regular season is simply riveting...

[Sports Guy]

Yes and the college regular season is simply riveting...

I agree...especially if you have an allegiance to a specific team.

The NBA would be way better if the schedule was shorter.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Kendrick traded to the Thunder for Jeff Green and Kristic.

I am surprised that the Celtics would give up some of that size.

Battier dealt to the Grizzlies for Thabeet and a first rounder.

Man you know things are rough when you're dealt for Thabeet;)

[Sports Guy]

Man you know things are rough when you're dealt for Thabeet;)

You forgot the first rounder.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I agree...especially if you have an allegiance to a specific team.

The NBA would be way better if the schedule was shorter.

I dunno, for me I'll take a Heat/Celtics game (two of the top teams) over an Ohio State Purdue game any day.

[Pedro Cerrano]

You forgot the first rounder.

I know I know I know.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Anyway I think bad trade for BOS. Green won't start for them, is inconsistent and their centers now are the O'Neals who are not exactly the pillar of health.

Definitely a head-scratcher.

[Sports Guy]

I dunno, for me I'll take a Heat/Celtics game (two of the top teams) over an Ohio State Purdue game any day.

That's a bs comp.

You are taking the 2 marquee franchises and huge rivals and comparing them to 2 teams that don't have the rivalry or history.

If you want to compare those 2 teams, then you should be throwing out a UNC/Duke game or something along those lines.

[mweb]

The NBA is infinitely more fun to watch than college IMO.

Yeah, I love March Madness and watching MD basketball(especially when they are good), but otherwise NCAA just isn't nearly as interesting to me as it was in the 90's and the early part of last decade. I think a lot of that is due to MD's decline and the decline of the ACC in general. Players leaving early and the decline in the quality of play imo is also a factor. I just can't get into most regular season matchups that don't involve MD or a Duke-UNC game or something big like that. Most of the games on TV are not appealing imo.

The NBA is just a way better brand of basketball, it's a heck of a lot easier to know a decent amount about all the teams, and it's more fun to follow the individual stars imo.

But a lot of people on this board don't really root for a team, or they somewhat root for the Wizards or whoever, so I can understand why they don't follow it that much.

If you have your own team then you have 82 games you care about each regular season and there's usually at least 1-2 good games each night that don't involve your team.

I'd much rather watch NYC-MIL(Melo Debut), MIA-CHI, OKC-SA, LAC-NO, and OKC-ORL plus the Lakers games than KU-OKST, OSU-ILL, Tenn-Vandy, Duke-Temple, WIS-UM, UF-UG, WVU-PITT, etc plus MD-FSU.

That's a sampling of games from yesterday through tomorrow. Obviously there's a lot more games in college to choose from.

[mweb]

Anyway I think bad trade for BOS. Green won't start for them, is inconsistent and their centers now are the O'Neals who are not exactly the pillar of health.

Definitely a head-scratcher.

I agree. Perkins is a great defensive player and rebounder who is very valuable to that team, especially considering what you mention regarding the O'Neals. Green is nothing special. Nate was a nice spark off the bench for them at times as well so they lose that.

[Dr. FLK]

Kendrick traded to the Thunder for Jeff Green and Kristic.

I am surprised that the Celtics would give up some of that size.

Battier dealt to the Grizzlies for Thabeet and a first rounder.

This move surprised on both sides. I'm surprised the Thunder gave up on Green so soon, and I'm surprised the Cs were willing to move Perkins. This move makes more sense for OKC (to me), since it gives them a legit big man. His scoring is limited, but they don't need scoring.

[Sports Guy]

This move surprised on both sides. I'm surprised the Thunder gave up on Green so soon, and I'm surprised the Cs were willing to move Perkins. This move makes more sense for OKC (to me), since it gives them a legit big man. His scoring is limited, but they don't need scoring.

OKC needed size...There is nothing head scratching about this move on their end.

[MRLeavey]

OKC needed size...There is nothing head scratching about this move on their end.

Agreed. This is a homerun for the Thunder. They were my favorite team in the league before this deal, and Sam Presti is one of my favorite young GMs. Now, I think they are primed to make a run at the Lakers and Spurs, and perhaps a title. Westbrook-Durant-Perkins is as good a young trio as you'll find, and at the most important positions no less.

The Heat may have a slightly better trio, but are mediocre at best at the crucial PG and C spots.

Boston meanwhile took a huge gamble here. It may pan out, but I think on the surface Orlando, Chicago, and Miami all just got a huge boost to their championship hopes without so much as making a move.

[Dr. FLK]

OKC needed size...There is nothing head scratching about this move on their end.

Giving up Green on their end was the surprise for me, not that they dealt for a big.

[Icterus galbula]

Giving up Green on their end was the surprise for me, not that they dealt for a big.

Both guys have contracts running out. Oklahoma City sees that maybe Green wasn't a guy they were going to extend long term. Perkins might be, or at least might be more useful down the stretch.

[waroriole]

In defense of Ainge (and I don't like the move), the Celtics apparently weren't going to be able to sign Perk in the offseason. Now, they still need him for the stretch run, but they cleared 2 roster spots in another trade and may be able to sign some bigs.

[mweb]

This is how I'd rank the teams chances at winning the title:

Boston
Miami
San Antonio
LAL
Orlando
Dallas
Chicago
OKC
Utah


Time to revise this:

LAL
Boston
San Antonio
Chicago
Miami
Dallas
OKC
Orlando

I think with the loss of Perkins, the C's are not as good and less likely to beat the Lakers if that happens and will have more trouble with the Magic and Bulls.

Conversely, the Thunder have a better chance at advancing past the 2nd round and are a darkhorse team to win it all.

I have the Lakers at #1 because I think they have the best chance to get out of the West and I think their chances against the C's just went up a lot, while I think the top 3 in the East have close to even chances. But really that top 5 is pretty close to each other imo.

Chicago had a big win last night and should be really strong once Noah is back to his usual self.

Dallas is also playing really well. I really wouldn't be that surprised if any of the top 6 win it all.

[Sports Guy]

Time to revise this:

LAL
Boston
San Antonio
Chicago
Miami
Dallas
OKC
Orlando

I think with the loss of Perkins, the C's are not as good and less likely to beat the Lakers if that happens and will have more trouble with the Magic and Bulls.

Conversely, the Thunder have a better chance at advancing past the 2nd round and are a darkhorse team to win it all.

I have the Lakers at #1 because I think they have the best chance to get out of the West and I think their chances against the C's just went up a lot, while I think the top 3 in the East have close to even chances. But really that top 5 is pretty close to each other imo.

Chicago had a big win last night and should be really strong once Noah is back to his usual self.

Dallas is also playing really well. I really wouldn't be that surprised if any of the top 6 win it all.The Lakers are still the favorite and always have been.

A few bad stretches here and there never changed that..unless you are too reactionary.

As long as they are healthy come playoff time, they are the best.

Personally, I think the only teams that have a chance are Miami, Boston, LAL, OKC and maybe SA.

[mweb]

The Lakers are still the favorite and always have been.A few bad stretches here and there never changed that..unless you are too reactionary.

As long as they are healthy come playoff time, they are the best.

Personally, I think the only teams that have a chance are Miami, Boston, LAL, OKC and maybe SA.

Well except that Boston was just as good as them last year in the playoffs and may have won if Perkins didn't get hurt, were playing better this year while the Lakers were playing worse, and are on track to have homecourt over the Lakers, which along with Perkins injury was the difference last year.

Plus all those other teams other than Orlando have improved, some by a lot, and four of them would have home court against the Lakers if the season ended today. Winning 3 straight series' without homecourt against teams that are about as good as them is no easy task. Hopefully they'll pass Dallas so that number will go down to 2.

And the Lakers have not done well against the other top teams for the most part and yes, they have cared about those games.

None of that can be dismissed.

I have them as a favorite now because of the Perkins trade and that I have the 3 East teams being pretty close to equal, while I'll still give the Lakers the edge in the West even if it's not nearly as large as it was last year. But if I were to put odds on who wins it all, there would be very little difference between the top 5.

[adamwolff11]

Chicago has really impressed me lately. Rose is playing like the MVP, Boozer and Noah down low will cause problems for a lot of teams, and Deng is a nice secondary scoring option. I hadn't really thought about them much as serious contenders until recently, but I think they're as good as anyone in the East, especially at home. If they would be able to get the #1 seed, I think they would have a really good chance of representing the east in the finals.

[backwardsk]

I used to love the NBA and knew all of the players and their alma maters. I casually follow it these days, but it's far behind baseball, football, and college basketball for me. There are some guys that I really enjoy watching and I really got into the 1st Lakers/Celtics Finals with Kobe and Pierce. But stories like this are the reason that the NBA has a hard time filling out arenas with the casual fan, imo.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AuF8LcfeZsGDUvkSRNukVi85nYcB?slug=aw-hamiltonpistons022611

[Pedro Cerrano]

I used to love the NBA and knew all of the players and their alma maters. I casually follow it these days, but it's far behind baseball, football, and college basketball for me. There are some guys that I really enjoy watching and I really got into the 1st Lakers/Celtics Finals with Kobe and Pierce. But stories like this are the reason that the NBA has a hard time filling out arenas with the casual fan, imo.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AuF8LcfeZsGDUvkSRNukVi85nYcB?slug=aw-hamiltonpistons022611

Are you an NFL fan?

[backwardsk]

Are you an NFL fan?

Yes (letters)

[Pedro Cerrano]

Yes (letters)

It's very interesting that an NFL fan is citing a character piece on an NBA player as to why they dislike the NBA IMO.

[backwardsk]

It's very interesting that an NFL fan is citing a character piece on an NBA player as to why they dislike the NBA IMO.

Eh, I don't think my oppinion is very interesting. :laughlol:

This goes a little beyond character though, imo. He organized about half the team to walk out on their coach. That's a pretty big deal. All major sports have bad characters. I don't think that's the problem here. It's disappointing because I've always thought Rip had a pretty good reputation. He seemed like a good guy when he was here in Washington and then he got moved to a better situation and became a champion. And I don't dislike the NBA. I don't dislike any sports. Apathetic would be a better discription. The league can't hold my sustained attention anymore. I do think it's unfortunate that the NBA gets a reputation as a league of "thugs." I don't buy into that, and in my oppinion, I believe that's driven somewhat by race (although that's an entirely different discussion).

You asked if I was an NFL fan. In 2009, the lovable Albert Haynesworth tried to lead a walk-out of a Christmas Day practice. He successfully enticed one player, himself, to not show up. I haven't heard of anything like this in other sports.

[Sports Guy]

Looks like the Heat will be adding Mike Bibby and Troy Murphy.

[backwardsk]

Looks like the Heat will be adding Mike Bibby and Troy Murphy.

I thought I saw something about Murphy going to the Celtics.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AmdG94yQiurg.4gsDPF4o7o5nYcB?slug=mc-murphyceltics030111

[backwardsk]

Did anyone watch the Bulls/Heat game this afternoon. The Bulls won by one after both James and Wade missed shots on the last possession. But Wade's shot came after he stepped out of bounds. I wonder if they would have let it count had it gone in.

By the way, Keith Bogans has carved himself a nice career. He and Joe Forte were high school teammates where Forte had the higher billing.

[mweb]

The Heat can't pull out the close games and now some of their players are crying about it. Interesting.

And how about the Lakers? Dominated the Spurs yesterday to get to 7 straight wins!

[MikeAD]

The Heat can't pull out the close games and now some of their players are crying about it. Interesting.

And how about the Lakers? Dominated the Spurs yesterday to get to 7 straight wins!

The Lakers are in another world right now, I hope they can keep it up, theres a lot of season left to be played.

[mweb]

The worst team in the NBA is looking pretty good.:D

[Birds of B'more]

The worst team in the NBA is looking pretty good.:D

They still suck. They've just been lucky. They caught Orlando when Dwight Howard was suspended, and anyone can beat Miami right now....they're too busy crying. :D

I will give them props for re-signing Nate. Few coaches could do what he has with the deck that the front office dealt him.

[MikeAD]

This Lakers Heat game tonight has just been stellar.

Down to the wire..

[MikeAD]

Eh, Miami pulled if off. Great game.

[mweb]

Eh, Miami pulled if off. Great game.

Kobe was awful down the stretch and the refs didn't help.

[MikeAD]

Kobe was awful down the stretch and the refs didn't help.

His final shot with 20 seconds left was just awful. Way too far away and he was hardly set. There was time left to make a better shot. Artest's foul on LeBron didn't help.

Heat finished strong, Lakers did not. Heat sweep the season series.

[eastonguy]

Eh, Miami pulled if off. Great game.

Looks like the Heat finally realized who the right closer is.

[mweb]

New MVP list:

LeBron
Howard
Paul
Rose
Dirk
Wade
Kobe
Durant
Manu
Amare

I know LeBron hasn't delivered much in big moments, but he's still the best player in the league by a decent margin imo and the Heat still have a great record, so he's my #1.

I know a lot of people are touting Rose as the MVP, but his numbers aren't as good as most of the other guys on this list and his defense is rather poor(there defense is the biggest reason why they win).

[Pedro Cerrano]

New MVP list:

LeBron
Howard
Paul
Rose
Dirk
Wade
Kobe
Durant
Manu
Amare

I know LeBron hasn't delivered much in big moments, but he's still the best player in the league by a decent margin imo and the Heat still have a great record, so he's my #1.

I know a lot of people are touting Rose as the MVP, but his numbers aren't as good as most of the other guys on this list and his defense is rather poor(there defense is the biggest reason why they win).

I actually think there's a good chance Kobe wins it as a "lifetime achievement" mixed with "sorry we didn't give you more than one when you were in your prime" sort of thing.

Agreed that LeBron is the best player in the league, with the only counter being that if you define value as coming through in the clutch he and his team have not done that well (note, I do NOT subscribe to that theory, just saying it exists).

[mweb]

I actually think there's a good chance Kobe wins it as a "lifetime achievement" mixed with "sorry we didn't give you more than one when you were in your prime" sort of thing.

Agreed that LeBron is the best player in the league, with the only counter being that if you define value as coming through in the clutch he and his team have not done that well (note, I do NOT subscribe to that theory, just saying it exists).

I haven't heard much sentiment for that from the media. It sounds like Rose will win based on what I'm hearing.

[Remember The Alomar]

I haven't heard much sentiment for that from the media. It sounds like Rose will win based on what I'm hearing.

If the Bulls get the number one seed (which is looking very possible if you compare the Celtics and Bulls upcoming schedule) Rose will be a lock to win it considering the momentum that he's built up in the media. Can't said I'd disagree either.

[mweb]

If the Bulls get the number one seed (which is looking very possible if you compare the Celtics and Bulls upcoming schedule) Rose will be a lock to win it considering the momentum that he's built up in the media. Can't said I'd disagree either.

I agree with the first part. Not the second part due to their defense being a huge reason for their success and him being a mediocre to poor defensive player.

[Remember The Alomar]

I agree with the first part. Not the second part due to their defense being a huge reason for their success and him being a mediocre to poor defensive player.

You make a good point.

[mweb]

So the Knicks are looking fantastic.:D

[Pedro Cerrano]

Obviously the Lakers cannot catch the Spurs, but it should be very interesting down the stretch as to whether or not they can finish with a better record than Boston, Miami, Orlando and Chicago.

As history would show, having home court in the NBA Finals (especially in 2-3-2) is HUGE.

BTW, solid win for the Lakers tonight against the worst team in the NBA ;-) playing without Bynum.

[Birds of B'more]

Obviously the Lakers cannot catch the Spurs, but it should be very interesting down the stretch as to whether or not they can finish with a better record than Boston, Miami, Orlando and Chicago.

As history would show, having home court in the NBA Finals (especially in 2-3-2) is HUGE.

BTW, solid win for the Lakers tonight against the worst team in the NBA ;-) playing without Bynum.

I would hardly call a win against the lowly Frail Blazers solid. LA has some better wins recently to hang their hat on. ;)

Looks like Duncan hurt his foot pretty bad tonight....good news for the Lakers.

[mweb]

The Celtics have really been struggling since the trade, which must mostly be a mental thing since Perk hadn't played that much this year anyway.

So now they are the #2 seed in the East with Miami right behind them and they wouldn't have homecourt against the Lakers if they met in the Finals. :)

[mweb]

It's too bad that the bottom of the East sucks so much, otherwise the Knicks wouldn't even make the playoffs, and that would be hilarious!

Meanwhile the Nuggets are playing very well.

[beaner]

It's too bad that the bottom of the East sucks so much, otherwise the Knicks wouldn't even make the playoffs, and that would be hilarious!

Meanwhile the Nuggets are playing very well.

They've become my second favorite season pass team (behind Oklahoma City), watching Felton & Lawson on the floor together is almost orgasmic for me..Good times!

[Birds of B'more]

Obviously the Lakers cannot catch the Spurs, but it should be very interesting down the stretch as to whether or not they can finish with a better record than Boston, Miami, Orlando and Chicago.

As history would show, having home court in the NBA Finals (especially in 2-3-2) is HUGE.

BTW, solid win for the Lakers tonight against the worst team in the NBA ;-) playing without Bynum.

Or maybe they can. Question is, would that be a good thing? If you're a Lakers fan, who would you want to potentially see in the 2nd round.....Dallas or OKC? If I were a Lakers fan I'd prefer Dallas. OKC would be a much tougher matchup, IMO.

[mweb]

Or maybe they can. Question is, would that be a good thing? If you're a Lakers fan, who would you want to potentially see in the 2nd round.....Dallas or OKC? If I were a Lakers fan I'd prefer Dallas. OKC would be a much tougher matchup, IMO.

I'd prefer Dallas, but would rather have the homecourt against the Spurs if both make it that far, and of course if the Lakers get homecourt over the Spurs, they are more likely to have homecourt in the Finals if they make it.

I also want the Hornets the most in the 1st round and they are most likely to be the 8th seed imo. I don't want the Blazers regardless of how much you think they suck.

So give me the homecourt.

[Birds of B'more]

I'd prefer Dallas, but would rather have the homecourt against the Spurs if both make it that far, and of course if the Lakers get homecourt over the Spurs, they are more likely to have homecourt in the Finals if they make it.

I also want the Hornets the most in the 1st round and they are most likely to be the 8th seed imo. I don't want the Blazers regardless of how much you think they suck.

So give me the homecourt.

Home court is always nice, but I'd rather have the better matchup and take my chances needing to win at least 1 on the road in San Antonio. And of course it's easily conceivable to be #2 in the West but still have home court if you make the Finals.

Agree that New Orleans is probably the best of the 1st Round matchups, with David West out. The Blazers will still be a very easy series for someone though. Their lack of depth is showing and they are wearing down....many starters are playing 40+ minutes a night regularly. They'll be out of gas by the playoffs. Memphis will provide an interesting matchup for one of the Top 3. They're the ones I'd least want to face in the 1st Round.

[mweb]

Home court is always nice, but I'd rather have the better matchup and take my chances needing to win at least 1 on the road in San Antonio. And of course it's easily conceivable to be #2 in the West but still have home court if you make the Finals.

Agree that New Orleans is probably the best of the 1st Round matchups, with David West out. The Blazers will still be a very easy series for someone though. Their lack of depth is showing and they are wearing down....many starters are playing 40+ minutes a night regularly. They'll be out of gas by the playoffs. Memphis will provide an interesting matchup for one of the Top 3. They're the ones I'd least want to face in the 1st Round.

I'm not much more concerned with OKC than I am with Dallas.

I think the homecourt against the Spurs, the better chance of homecourt in the finals, and the likely better first round matchup outweights the difference between playing the Mavs and Thunder.

I also don't think the Blazers would be an easy series and it's hard to take you that seriously when you bash them given your track record of being over the top negative regarding them. I think the Lakers would win of course, but the Blazers can challenge them.

[Pedro Cerrano]

What a colossal choke job currently going on by the Spurs.

[Birds of B'more]

I'm not much more concerned with OKC than I am with Dallas.

I think the homecourt against the Spurs, the better chance of homecourt in the finals, and the likely better first round matchup outweights the difference between playing the Mavs and Thunder.

I also don't think the Blazers would be an easy series and it's hard to take you that seriously when you bash them given your track record of being over the top negative regarding them. I think the Lakers would win of course, but the Blazers can challenge them.

I still think that after seeing the fight OKC gave the Lakers in the playoffs last year, coupled with the fact that Dallas always flames out in the playoffs (and that doesn't look to change this year), then OKC would be the matchup I'd most like to avoid. I think LA would win, but I could see that being a very tough 7-game series. Whereas LA could probably dispatch of Dallas in 4 or 5. I'd rather head into the conference finals as a road team coming off an easy series than a home team coming off a difficult one.

Say what you will about my Blazer's assessment, but here's some facts for you. Lamarcus Aldridge, by far their leading scorer and only hope to lead them past the 1st Round, is averaging nearly 40-minutes per game for the entire season, 2nd in the NBA (not counting Rudy Gay, whose season is over). His scoring average dropped from 27.8 ppg in February to 20.1 ppg in March. With the gimpy Marcus Camby as the only other active big on the roster, he'll have no chance to get any meaningful rest from here on out. Oh, and he publicly admitted (http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/03/lamarcus_adridge_shows_signs_o.html) that he's "gassed." So who makes up for those 8 ppg? Certainly not Brandon "15 Minutes Per Game" Roy. Andre Miller? Nope. Nic Batum or Rudy Fernandez? Please. Gerald Wallace? Probably the best hope, but I doubt it. You can say I'm overly negative, but tell me, what do you see in this team that makes you prefer to avoid them? What about this team doesn't say "Easy 1st Round Fodder?" A lot of people out here would like to know the same thing.

EDIT: For some reason I can't insert a link into my post. Am I the only one who misses the old Hangout look/style? Anyway, here's a link I tried to post on Aldridge wearing down.

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/03/lamarcus_adridge_shows_signs_o.html

[mweb]

There's more off days in the playoffs.

Oh, and Kobe looked pretty gassed and worn-down going into the playoffs last year. How did that work out?

You are very clearly overly negative regarding the Blazers. So yes I will say that.

I'm not saying they're anything special, but they're 44-32, have won 11 out of their last 15 and 7 out of their last 10 despite being so gassed as you say. They also recently made a trade that improved them, and Roy is now back and contributing. Plus they generally play the Lakers tough, especially in Portland.

It's odd to talk about needing 8 points to replace Aldridge's dip from a way above his norm month. He's not a 28 points per game guy. Over his last 10 games, he's averaging 20.7 ppg and shooting 54%. So he's basically as good as his season numbers.

I'd much rather play the Hornets, especially without West, and I'd rather play the Grizzlies without Gay.

[backwardsk]

Why are so many guys wearing green headbands? I saw James and some guys on the Wizards wear them recently.

[mweb]

The Heat with a statement win over the Celtics today. Big for homecourt for their likely 2-3 matchup as well.

[Birds of B'more]

Why are so many guys wearing green headbands? I saw James and some guys on the Wizards wear them recently.

Has something to do with the environment. At first I thought it was Earth Day, but it's a couple weeks too eary for that. Apparently the NBA does it's own thing.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I'm starting to wonder if the Lakers ever intend to win another game. I get the whole "it only counts in the playoffs thing" but my goodness, this is NOT the way you want to be playing heading into the post-season.

[Birds of B'more]

I'm starting to wonder if the Lakers ever intend to win another game. I get the whole "it only counts in the playoffs thing" but my goodness, this is NOT the way you want to be playing heading into the post-season.

They technically still hold the #2 seed in the West. But they could drop to #4 depending on what happens. They have 2 interesting games left. At home against San Antonio....the Spurs may or may not care about that game, the only thing left for them to clinch is home court against Chicago if they meet in the Finals. Then LA wraps up the season against the Kings in what will likely be the last NBA game ever played in Sacramento....that will be an unusual environment. Will be very interesting to watch.

[mweb]

This has been a brutal stretch. I'm sure they'll step it up for the playoffs, but they aren't doing themselves any favors in regards to having homecourt.

[ccbird]

East is set.

Bulls/Pacers
Heat/76ers
Celtics/Knicks
Magic/Hawks

I think everyone is just waiting for the 2nd round. I know some people think NY can give Boston a series but I don't see it.

[MRLeavey]

East is set.

Bulls/Pacers
Heat/76ers
Celtics/Knicks
Magic/Hawks

I think everyone is just waiting for the 2nd round. I know some people think NY can give Boston a series but I don't see it.

I definitely agree, but Rajon Rondo has to elevate come playoff time if the Celtics are going to get past round 2. He's way too talented to coast.

[mweb]

Dammit! I hope Bynum's injury isn't that bad.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Dammit! I hope Bynum's injury isn't that bad.

If you believe Drew he says it's not that bad. I'd really like to beat Sacramento tonight and shore up that 2 seed. I don't mind having to go on the road in the West Finals but I'd rather not have two potential series without home court.

[mweb]

Apparently just a bone bruise and he's expected to be able to play this weekend. Great news!

[mweb]

My final MVP picks, which I think will be a lot different than the writer picks:

James
Howard
Dirk
Wade
Rose
Kobe
Paul
Durant
Westbrook
Aldridge

[mweb]

I'm assuming I accidently closed this thread since I'm able to open it, but I'm not sure.

[mweb]

Interesting article (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/6380/who-nba-players-dont-want-in-the-clutch) about who players would want taking the final shot and what the numbers actually show.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I'm sorry but the New Orleans Hornets have no business being on the same floor as the Lakers. Chris Paul is awesome but talent-wise these two teams aren't in the same area code. That this series has potential to be 2-2 is ridiculous.

WAKE UP LAKERS!

[Birds of B'more]

Once the NBA gets its labor issues solved, some team is going to be very lucky when it lands Chris Paul in free agency. My money is still on the Knicks.

[mweb]

When healthy, Chris Paul is the best PG in the league; he is amazing!

But yeah, it's a joke that the Lakers are struggling with the Hornets.

[mweb]

Nice follow up (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/28021/you-dont-know-jack-about-crunch-time)to the last shot article that I posted.

Talks about the Hornets crunch time offense vs the Lakers.

Of course most people ignore this type of info and just go with the conventional wisdom that Kobe or guys like him should dominate the ball and the shots down the stretch in games.

[Pedro Cerrano]

And Memphis is waxing San Antonio like a new car this series. Wow. Just wow.

I knew Memphis had a legit talented young core but I didn't think this would happen...they and OKC are two west teams to watch in the next few years.

[sdmarkakis]

Nice night for Vasquez.

[Sports Guy]

And Memphis is waxing San Antonio like a new car this series. Wow. Just wow.

I knew Memphis had a legit talented young core but I didn't think this would happen...they and OKC are two west teams to watch in the next few years.
And they are doing it without Rudy Gay.

Although I must say, when you look at that Spurs roster, that is one ugly team since Duncan is about done.

[Pedro Cerrano]

And they are doing it without Rudy Gay.

Although I must say, when you look at that Spurs roster, that is one ugly team since Duncan is about done.

They're very old and/or hurt and their bench is putrid. The Spurs were incredibly fortunate in the beginning of the year to deal with basically zero major injuries. Now with Ginobili banged up and an aging Duncan they just aren't that scary. Still, if Memphis can knock them off that leaves the Lakers with basically no excuse not to make the NBA finals.

[Sports Guy]

They're very old and/or hurt and their bench is putrid. The Spurs were incredibly fortunate in the beginning of the year to deal with basically zero major injuries. Now with Ginobili banged up and an aging Duncan they just aren't that scary. Still, if Memphis can knock them off that leaves the Lakers with basically no excuse not to make the NBA finals.

They have no excuse anyway.

OKC is the best team in their way, not SA.

On top of that, Memphis may be a bigger threat right now than SA anyway.

The only team that can beat LA in a 7 game series, in the west, is OKC...assuming Kobe's ankle sprain isn't really bad(he says he will play).

NO is testing the Lakers because the Lakers can't guard a PG to save their lives but they will win the series in 6 and beat Dallas or Portland in 6.

Then, you get the OKC test....the only real test out there for them.

[Pedro Cerrano]

They have no excuse anyway.

OKC is the best team in their way, not SA.

On top of that, Memphis may be a bigger threat right now than SA anyway.

The only team that can beat LA in a 7 game series, in the west, is OKC...assuming Kobe's ankle sprain isn't really bad(he says he will play).

NO is testing the Lakers because the Lakers can't guard a PG to save their lives but they will win the series in 6 and beat Dallas or Portland in 6.

Then, you get the OKC test....the only real test out there for them.

The only reason I thought SA was the biggest obstacle was because of the home court situation.

I agree that OKC is the best team standing in their way.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Lakers take game 5. Gotta believe they close New Orleans out in 6 and look forward to Oklahoma City.

As a Laker fan, not looking forward to sweating through that series.

[DuffMan]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1104/nba.playoffs.separated.at.birth/content.1.html

NBA Players in the playoffs and their celebrity look a likes. I think my favorite is Stan Van Gundy : Ron Jeremy!

[Sports Guy]

Lakers take game 5. Gotta believe they close New Orleans out in 6 and look forward to Oklahoma City.

As a Laker fan, not looking forward to sweating through that series.

Kobe had two spectacular dunks...Ankle looked just fine as soon as he got loose.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Kobe had two spectacular dunks...Ankle looked just fine as soon as he got loose.

Despite his age there is still not another player in the NBA I would take over him in a must-win game.

[Sports Guy]

Despite his age there is still not another player in the NBA I would take over him in a must-win game.

No, of course not.

You may take other players to start a team with but no chance I even remotely think about taking someone else in the league if I need someone to win me a game or something like that.

[mweb]

Despite his age there is still not another player in the NBA I would take over him in a must-win game.

Eh, I don't think I'd go with him. I think his reputation for clutchness is greater than the results at this point. Same thing with people saying he's the best closer and the guy you want taking that last shot to tie or win. He's absolutely not the best closer or the guy you want in that end of game situation.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Eh, I don't think I'd go with him. I think his reputation for clutchness is greater than the results at this point. Same thing with people saying he's the best closer and the guy you want taking that last shot to tie or win. He's absolutely not the best closer or the guy you want in that end of game situation.

I meant for an entire must-win game -- not just a few minutes.

But that's fine. I'll take Kobe, you take your guy and I'll win... :-)

[mweb]

I meant for an entire must-win game -- not just a few minutes.

But that's fine. I'll take Kobe, you take your guy and I'll win... :-)

6-24. ;)

I'll just take the better player since Kobe doesn't really elevate his game much or at all in big games or clutch moments like people think.

In terms of the closing situation, he's actually a detriment in the last 5 or so minutes in close games and there's a good chance the must-win game would be close.

[Pedro Cerrano]

6-24. ;)

I'll just take the better player since Kobe doesn't really elevate his game much or at all in big games or clutch moments like people think.

In terms of the closing situation, he's actually a detriment in the last 5 or so minutes in close games and there's a good chance the must-win game would be close.

You don't put a lot of stock in his past experience in big games and the way he could help lead his teammates and acclimate them to the big stage? Those traits are important too.

Meanwhile, San Antonio hanging on by a thread, down 5 with 90 seconds left.

[Pedro Cerrano]

And 6-24 was good enough for Finals MVP lol.

[mweb]

You don't put a lot of stock in his past experience in big games and the way he could help lead his teammates and acclimate them to the big stage? Those traits are important too.

Meanwhile, San Antonio hanging on by a thread, down 5 with 90 seconds left.

It's nice and all, but no I'm not going to put a ton of stock on his effect on teammates. I can just take Fish with my 12th pick to get that effect. :D

If Kobe really did step up as much as people think (or at all) in big games, in late and close situations, and last second shots, I would take him. But I don't think that's the case and the numbers are pretty clear on the latter two points and his most recent must-win game was pretty bad on an individual level.

Or maybe if it was pretty close to a toss-up regarding who the best player is between Kobe and LeBron, Howard, Wade, etc then I'd probably take him due to his experience. However, I don't think he's at that level anymore.

[mweb]

And pretty crazy comeback by the Spurs. Wonder if this will spur them on to win the series.

[Birds of B'more]

Pretty cool to watch a former Towson Tiger save San Antonio's season.

[mweb]

Kobe's numbers in true must-win games during the Pau era:

5 games. 110 points. 34-98 shooting. 43 rebounds. 15 assists. 17 turnovers.

So 22 ppg, 34.7% shooting, 8.6 rebounds, 3 assists, 3.4 to's.

So I think the must-win games numbers are on my side as well.