Duke's Fastball Topping at 84!

[AJismyhero]

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2011/03/good-stuff-in-the-first.html


Anyone else see that from Roch's post earlier today? I understand he was hurt last year, but that is pretty slow? Not looking forward to seeing AL East jump on first pitch 84 MPH fastballs all year.

Thoughts?

[LookitsPuck]

Duke's not a flame thrower, anyways. He's usually in the upper 80's range. Being that this is his first start in quite some time, I'm not too worried about 84mph.

[Jagwar]

Duke's not a flame thrower, anyways. He's usually in the upper 80's range. Being that this is his first start in quite some time, I'm not too worried about 84mph.

I would bet that he didn't go all out either. The guy hasn't pitched in a game in 10 months, no need to overdo it.

[mofome]

no concern at all. expected 81-84 today if he actually made the start.

how he feels tonight and tomorrow im very interested in.

[OFFNY]

Duke's not a flame thrower, anyways. He's usually in the upper 80's range. Being that this is his first start in quite some time, I'm not too worried about 84mph.

Yes. Even more extreme examples are Wilbur Wood, Phil Niekro, and Tim Wakefield, all of whom carved out nice major league careers ........ and their fastballs didn't come anywhere bear 84 MPH !!! :D


.

[wildcard]

I think he did well. Ground outs by Victoriono, Planco and Rollins for a three up three down first. He smartly walked Howard. Got fly outs from Ibanez and Young and got Ruiz to end the 2nd on a pop out. The only hit was a double by Mayberry.

That is a pretty tough lineup and he didn't give up a run. Maybe hitters are used to a 90 mph fastball and 84 mph fastball on the corner is a a different look.

[Frobby]

Per fangraphs, Duke's average fastball has never been more than 86.7 in any season. He was at 84.6 last year. He was at 85.9 in his last year in Oakland. So, no worries here.

[mofome]

his average FB for his career is 85.9 mph.

hes ahead of schedule in my book.

[mofome]

Per fangraphs, Duke's average fastball has never been more than 86.7 in any season. He was at 84.6 last year. He was at 85.9 in his last year in Oakland. So, no worries here.


there we go.

:beerchug1:

[TheBee]

Per fangraphs, Duke's average fastball has never been more than 86.7 in any season. He was at 84.6 last year. He was at 85.9 in his last year in Oakland. So, no worries here.

Exactly. The difference in velocity between his fastball, even at 84, and his curve (69/70 average) is 14/15 mph. That is what really matters in this case.

[harp6]

I would much rather have a smart pitcher who pitches at 85 mph than a thrower who can hit 100 mph.

Example: I would have taken Jamie Moyer any day over Daniel Cabrera or Alfredo Simon.

[RVAbird]

I would much rather have a smart pitcher who pitches at 85 mph than a thrower who can hit 100 mph.

Example: I would have taken Jamie Moyer any day over Daniel Cabrera or Alfredo Simon.

I think it's a bit misleading to suggest that when a soft-tosser is successful he's smart and when a hard-thrower is not successful he's dumb.

[mofome]

JD is a pitcher. He will have guys off balance and hitting to the big part of the park. I just hope hes healthy. I was very surprised that he landed here.

[TheBee]

He threw fast enough to throw two scoreless innings. Again, the disparity of 14/15 between his 2 main pitches is the key.

[Frobby]

I think it's a bit misleading to suggest that when a soft-tosser is successful he's smart and when a hard-thrower is not successful he's dumb.

I agree 100%. Having great command is not something you get just from being smart.

I do agree with harp6 that if my choice is a pitcher with great command or a pitcher with great velocity, I'll take the guy with command. (Assuming here we are talking about fully developed pitchers, not high school kids.)

[crowmst3k!]

Agreed with Frobby. I mean, its ideal to have both ala Mike Mussina but command has better staying power.

[OFFNY]

2 scoreless innings for Duke today. Woo hoo. You have to start somewhere. :)


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[Arthur_Bryant]

2 scoreless innings for Duke today. Woo hoo. You have to start somewhere. :)


.

It's two more than I expected when he shut down.

[Sports Guy]

He is essentially what many of us thought John Stephens could/should be.

[paulcoates]

I am thinking Josh "Control" Towers

[RVAbird]

I agree 100%. Having great command is not something you get just from being smart.

I do agree with harp6 that if my choice is a pitcher with great command or a pitcher with great velocity, I'll take the guy with command. (Assuming here we are talking about fully developed pitchers, not high school kids.)

Agreed. I just get a little frustrated at how quickly soft-tossers or successful pitchers get labeled as being intelligent and hard-throwers or unsuccessful pitchers get labeled head-cases. In conversations with both arm-chair and professional evaluators, I see a particular tendency to label hard-throwing Latin pitchers head-cases or worse.

It's just a pet peeve of mine. Command, arsenal, and velocity don't have any real correlation to intelligence. I think I'm touchy because of a few difficult conversations I've had with very thoughtful, intelligent, driven players who, for reasons only related to innate talent, were not able to harness their games at the top level.

[SammyBirdland]

Um... 84 mph? Is this guy a knuckleballer or something? ;)

[Dagger420]

I think it's a bit misleading to suggest that when a soft-tosser is successful he's smart and when a hard-thrower is not successful he's dumb.

I guess in the MLB the pitch selection is much more on the catchers/coaching than on pitchers, but it takes a pretty smart person to get to the MLB and keep MLB hitters off balance with "stuff" that most high school hitters could hit.

I think its also easy for hard-throwers to be 'dumb' when they get to the MLB, because like Ben MacDonald said last year, he didn't know how to pitch when he got to the MLB because he never had to do anything besides blow people away in college.

Its a generalization like all pretty girls are dumb, but for the most part it is true by necessity. Pretty girls can get by on being dumb so most are, just like hard-throwers can get by being dumb. Thats what makes it so special when you find either with both. ;)

[statman]

Similarly, Guthrie usually tops out at roughly 95 mph...however, he was only hitting about 89 or 90 on the gun in his start last week against the Twins (I was there). They are just getting their arms loose...I am not too worried about Guts or Duke.

[OriolesMagik11]

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2011/03/good-stuff-in-the-first.html


Anyone else see that from Roch's post earlier today? I understand he was hurt last year, but that is pretty slow? Not looking forward to seeing AL East jump on first pitch 84 MPH fastballs all year.

Thoughts?

Thats what he "TOPPED" out at. Expect to see the first pitch around 75-78 MPH. Until he gets warmed up!

JK. :laughlol:

I know Dukes not a flame thrower he normally tops out around 89 or so.

[OriolesMagik11]

I would much rather have a smart pitcher who pitches at 85 mph than a thrower who can hit 100 mph.

Example: I would have taken Jamie Moyer any day over Daniel Cabrera or Alfredo Simon.

:clap3:
Excellent point my friend.
Although I as many others here really enjoyed watching D-Cab try to figure it out his first year or two. His fastball was like a laser beam to home plate. I still own and i'm sure it would be impossible to sell, a Daniel Cabrera autograpgh, game worn jersey, rookie card. haha Anyone want to give me $3 for it I paid $25!!! :wedge:

[Oriolesfan4life]

Steve Trachsel-esque.

[clarence]

I wonder if the ball wasn't coming out of his hand very well?

[Goober Noodles]

"Normally, I'm 85 to 90 or 91 on my good days," he said. "Last year, I was 84 to 86, which for me is not normal. I knew something was wrong with my hip, but I thought if I kept pitching, maybe it would go away, but it just got worse. So, when I threw, the Orioles scout had a gun on me, and I asked him when I got done and he said I was 85-86. And it surprised me because last year that was as hard as I could throw game-speed, and I was just throwing a bullpen, which, without a hitter in there, you don't have adrenaline and stuff. It gave me confidence knowing that once I get a hitter in there, I'd probably add a couple miles-per-hour on that and get back to where I was."

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2011/02/more-on-duchscherers-bullpen-session.html

[harp6]

Agreed. I just get a little frustrated at how quickly soft-tossers or successful pitchers get labeled as being intelligent and hard-throwers or unsuccessful pitchers get labeled head-cases. In conversations with both arm-chair and professional evaluators, I see a particular tendency to label hard-throwing Latin pitchers head-cases or worse.

It's just a pet peeve of mine. Command, arsenal, and velocity don't have any real correlation to intelligence. I think I'm touchy because of a few difficult conversations I've had with very thoughtful, intelligent, driven players who, for reasons only related to innate talent, were not able to harness their games at the top level.

No where in my comment did I call the thrower dumb. I used the adjective "smart" to describe the pitcher who threw at 85 mph to make a comparison to a person who throws the ball at 98 mph but has not yet learned how to become a good pitcher. I did not place the adjective "dumb" before the thrower. You did that. Randy Johnson was a very smart pitcher, but that does not mean that he was dumb as a 24 year old thrower. He just did not know how to pitch well. He had to learn how to pitch.


All aspects of the game have some correlation to intelligence. Some more than others. Tillman's fastball was straight. Hitters were waiting for it. He made an adjustment by learning a cut fastball. He has not mastered it yet, but it all takes intelligence. To add it to his arsenal, he had to learn the mechanics, how to repeat the mechanics, and how to throw it consistently for a strike. All those things take athletic ability, repetition, and intelligence.

[DrungoHazewood]

I do agree with harp6 that if my choice is a pitcher with great command or a pitcher with great velocity, I'll take the guy with command. (Assuming here we are talking about fully developed pitchers, not high school kids.)

There's obviously a sliding scale here. And this thread is mostly talking about the extremes. MLB overwhelmingly chooses guys with little command but 100 mph fastballs over guys with great command and 85 mph fastballs. John Stephens got 65 major league innings despite a AAA K:BB ratio of 3.33:1. While Mitch Williams got 619 major league appearances despite walking seven batters per nine.

I'd swag that 50-75% of all the people in the world who can throw a baseball 98 mph appear in the major leagues at some point. But at 85 mph that number has to be less than 1%.