Thrashers to Winnipeg

[PrivateO]

The selling of the team is official.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=6610414

I'm not really a hockey fan, but I always find relocation interesting.

We'll see what name they choose. I've heard Jets (reverting back to their identity) or Falcons as possible choices.

[NewMarketSean]

Huh. I used to belong to a movie message board that was filled with people from the 'peg. I bet they are happy.

And they should definitely be the Jets again.

[PrivateO]

Huh. I used to belong to a movie message board that was filled with people from the 'peg. I bet they are happy.

And they should definitely be the Jets again.

I'm sure the Winnipegians (?) would like the team to become the Jets again. The only problem could possibily arise on who owns the rights to the name. In 1996, the Jets moved to Pheonix to become the Coyoes. I've heard conflicting reports that Pheonix owns the rights to the name, as does the NHL.

[NewMarketSean]

I'm sure the Winnipegians (?) would like the team to become the Jets again. The only problem could possibily arise on who owns the rights to the name. In 1996, the Jets moved to Pheonix to become the Coyoes. I've heard conflicting reports that Pheonix owns the rights to the name, as does the NHL.

Well I hope they can work something out. It's not like the Phoenix team is still called the Jets, as it happened with the Colts when the Ravens moved back to town.

[allstar1579]

What's really interesting in this mess is that they won't realign this year, so teams that are geographically based in the southeast have to play a crap ton of extra west coast games and eat the expenses involved in that in division.

Next year they will realign (they are waiting because 2-3 other teams are up for relocation over the next year and don't want to have to do it more than once). Might be a 1 for 1 with Columbus, Nashville or Detroit heading to the Southeast, or a major shakeup depending on other moves.

[BaltimoreTerp]

It would be better if the NHL would just give up on Phoenix now instead of forcing another year before that team moves. That way Winnipeg gets the actual Jets back, the Thrashers can move to Hamilton or Quebec City, and we can get more Canadian cities back in the NHL instead of the American South.

[PrivateO]

It would be better if the NHL would just give up on Phoenix now instead of forcing another year before that team moves. That way Winnipeg gets the actual Jets back, the Thrashers can move to Hamilton or Quebec City, and we can get more Canadian cities back in the NHL instead of the American South.

I never understood why southern cities like Nashville, Tampa, Miami (Florida Panthers), Atlanta, Phoenix, and even LA, Anaheim, or San Jose got hockey teams. I doubt the cities/surrounding areas have leagues for the youth, and can't see how it's too popular.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I never understood why southern cities like Nashville, Tampa, Miami (Florida Panthers), Atlanta, Phoenix, and even LA, Anaheim, or San Jose got hockey teams. I doubt the cities/surrounding areas have leagues for the youth, and can't see how it's too popular.

I think it's OK in certain cases to have teams in those areas. If you have a big enough city, just between transplants and those who pick up the interest over time you can develop a fan base. I would fit the Kings and Sharks, in particular, in that category, along with Dallas and Nashville and even Atlanta, despite losing two teams.

I think Phoenix and the Florida teams, in particular, were simply a combined grab for expansion money (in the latter cases) and trying to get all of the cold-weather retirees to support teams in Florida and Arizona. They were a poor idea from the start, made worse by the overexpansion of the league and the move away from the Canadian fans that are still the heart of the league.

If they were to do it over again, they should probably forget those three cities, keep the Stars, Jets and Nordiques in place, expand to Denver, Dallas and Nashville, and have a 26-team league with nine Canadian teams.

[allstar1579]

I never understood why southern cities like Nashville, Tampa, Miami (Florida Panthers), Atlanta, Phoenix, and even LA, Anaheim, or San Jose got hockey teams. I doubt the cities/surrounding areas have leagues for the youth, and can't see how it's too popular.

There was just a phase where they decided for whatever reason they wanted more teams in the US and out of Canada. The only real estate not saturated was the south (the CAPS may have been the southern-most team in the NHL at the time, so they started expanding teams south. It was a failure.

[NewMarketSean]

Pro sports in Florida dont really work. The Heat do well, the Dolphins do OK, but thats it. All the other teams are not getting fan support to justify being there.

[DuffMan]

What's really interesting in this mess is that they won't realign this year, so teams that are geographically based in the southeast have to play a crap ton of extra west coast games and eat the expenses involved in that in division.

Next year they will realign (they are waiting because 2-3 other teams are up for relocation over the next year and don't want to have to do it more than once). Might be a 1 for 1 with Columbus, Nashville or Detroit heading to the Southeast, or a major shakeup depending on other moves.

Yeah this really stinks. The Jets or whatever they will be called can at least schedule their games in bunches when it comes to playing the SE, but as for the Caps and the other SE teams they are SOL. Not too many teams nearby to Winnipeg.

Phoenix needs to move and just be done with it. The fact that they keep dragging this situation out is just hurting the team and the NHL.

I will be interested to see how realignment shakes out when it's all said and done. If they are going with a straight 1 for 1 I could see Nashville coming to the SE as they are closer to the SE than Detroit or Columbus. Personally I rather see a major shakeup which brings Detroit to the East. They don't even have to be in the SE, but getting them in the East would mean we get to see/play them 4 times a year! If they do go with this major realignment I wonder if they could get Philly into the SE...

[ChaosLex]

What I'd give for a team in Baltimore...

And yes, I know it'd never happen. :p

[DuffMan]

What I'd give for an AHL team in Baltimore...


Give me the bolded and I'd be stoked!

[allstar1579]

Yeah this really stinks. The Jets or whatever they will be called can at least schedule their games in bunches when it comes to playing the SE, but as for the Caps and the other SE teams they are SOL. Not too many teams nearby to Winnipeg.

Phoenix needs to move and just be done with it. The fact that they keep dragging this situation out is just hurting the team and the NHL.

I will be interested to see how realignment shakes out when it's all said and done. If they are going with a straight 1 for 1 I could see Nashville coming to the SE as they are closer to the SE than Detroit or Columbus. Personally I rather see a major shakeup which brings Detroit to the East. They don't even have to be in the SE, but getting them in the East would mean we get to see/play them 4 times a year! If they do go with this major realignment I wonder if they could get Philly into the SE...

Yeah I could see it go a couple ways. If they stay true to geography, you could add NSH right into the southeast 1 for 1, if not, then you are looking at moving PHI into the southeast and either CLB or DET into that spot. They could be looking to build a PIT/DET feud and WAS/PHI. The only thing there is you lose those PHI/NY rivalries. I pose another question though. Everyone knows the teams having trouble drawing are the southern teams, so why would you put them all in one division and make them play each other so much? You lose out on drawing fans of other teams for those games. Ok...to simplify the thought, where would the O's attendance be without the Yanks/Red Sox playing here so much? The Caps might be the exception to that rule right now since they are the hottest sports team in DC, but as the "struggle to win a cup" kicks in, the casual fans are going to start to split. I think you'll see the sellout streak end this season. Too many fairweather fans in DC, and people are going to start calling them choke artists and stop going to games. Unfortunately about 1/3 of the stadium is filled with these kinds of fans, the ones that wouldn't know a hockey puck from a basketball, but they want to seem cool and root for the home team.

[ShaneDawg85]

If a team moves from Atlanta, and nobody ever went to see them, will anybody notice that they're gone? ;)

[Danielos38]

Yeah I could see it go a couple ways. If they stay true to geography, you could add NSH right into the southeast 1 for 1, if not, then you are looking at moving PHI into the southeast and either CLB or DET into that spot. They could be looking to build a PIT/DET feud and WAS/PHI. The only thing there is you lose those PHI/NY rivalries. I pose another question though. Everyone knows the teams having trouble drawing are the southern teams, so why would you put them all in one division and make them play each other so much? You lose out on drawing fans of other teams for those games. Ok...to simplify the thought, where would the O's attendance be without the Yanks/Red Sox playing here so much? The Caps might be the exception to that rule right now since they are the hottest sports team in DC, but as the "struggle to win a cup" kicks in, the casual fans are going to start to split. I think you'll see the sellout streak end this season. Too many fairweather fans in DC, and people are going to start calling them choke artists and stop going to games. Unfortunately about 1/3 of the stadium is filled with these kinds of fans, the ones that wouldn't know a hockey puck from a basketball, but they want to seem cool and root for the home team.

I'd be totally fine with the Caps sellout streak ending. I might be able to get tickets again for a somewhat reasonable price.

[Birds of B'more]

I never understood why southern cities like Nashville, Tampa, Miami (Florida Panthers), Atlanta, Phoenix, and even LA, Anaheim, or San Jose got hockey teams. I doubt the cities/surrounding areas have leagues for the youth, and can't see how it's too popular.

Two words: Gary. Bettman.

Back in the 90's it was his vision that if the NHL was going to grow, the best option was to expand to the rapidly growing Sun Belt. Also, at that time the US dollar was much stronger than the Canadian dollar, thus many Canadian teams were struggling financially despite selling out regularly. Nevermind that in most of the US hockey was a niche sport, and with the exception of some snowbirds and other migrants headed south (all of whom remained loyal to their former teams) the NHL wasn't going to gain much traction. Heck, even teams in more established leagues struggle for attendance in fair-weather cities like Atlanta and Miami. But Bettman held firm that it could work, and still does so today (see: Phoenix). Despite that, I think we'll see Phoenix move soon and maybe one or two more. The fact that the Canadian dollar is much stronger now (and the US dollar much weaker) combined with more cost certainty for owners thanks to the salary cap they got after the lockout helps too.

[PrivateO]

Thanks for the perspective, guys. I've never been an NHL fan, and as a 19 year old, I never really knew about how many teams have relocated over the past 20 or so years. Much much more than the other sports. Just recently (approx. 1 year), I have learned about the Jets, North Stars, Nordiques, etc.

Again, I have always thought hockey could succeed in cities with snow. Atlanta, Pheonix, Nashville, etc. just aren't hockey towns to me.

[allstar1579]

Thanks for the perspective, guys. I've never been an NHL fan, and as a 19 year old, I never really knew about how many teams have relocated over the past 20 or so years. Much much more than the other sports. Just recently (approx. 1 year), I have learned about the Jets, North Stars, Nordiques, etc.

Again, I have always thought hockey could succeed in cities with snow. Atlanta, Pheonix, Nashville, etc. just aren't hockey towns to me.

Yeah that pretty much sums it up. Like Birds said, at the time the Canadian teams were really struggling because they would have to pay 20% more just to match american contracts because of the difference in the dollar. They didn't think it was fair and couldn't afford to compete with teams like the Rangers who would ride their large market money to buying everyone. (see '94) So most of the canadian teams packed up and ran away, and Bettman was convinced they should expand south, but I guess he didn't expect the lack of support they were going to get. Now that it's reversed you'll see a good Canadian expansion.

[J.D.]

Thanks for the perspective, guys. I've never been an NHL fan, and as a 19 year old, I never really knew about how many teams have relocated over the past 20 or so years. Much much more than the other sports. Just recently (approx. 1 year), I have learned about the Jets, North Stars, Nordiques, etc.

Again, I have always thought hockey could succeed in cities with snow. Atlanta, Pheonix, Nashville, etc. just aren't hockey towns to me.

See, this is a fairly common myth to me. Hockey DOES succeed in places without snow. And it does horribly in some places WITH snow.

I'm going to use attendance percentages to make my point, because some arenas are larger than others (so average attendance figures get skewed a little).

While it's true that, of the bottom five, three are cities without much snow (Dallas, Atlanta, and Phoenix), the other two DO get snow fairly frequently (NY Islanders, the bottom team, and Columbus). Nashville is actually 19th. You also have teams like San Jose (5th), LA (18th), Carolina (20th), and Tampa (21st) doing just fine. Anaheim's not doing terribly either. That may not sound FANTASTIC, but keep in mind that the top-12 teams sell out every game (100% or better attendance figures). And those teams are doing better than teams that traditionally have drawn well like Colorado (24th) and New Jersey (23rd). It's really only the bottom few teams that are drawing under 80% and are actually having issues. And only the Ducks, Devils, Avalanche, Blue Jackets, Thrashers, Coyotes, and Islanders drew less than an average of 15,000 fans per game last year. 15,000 is about what Winnipeg's arena holds.

Hockey in the south isn't necessarily a failure. Unfortunately for the Thrashers, they were owned by a group who immediately tried selling them once they purchased them, didn't like hockey in the first place, and ran them on a shoestring budget. All the while, they repeatedly told their fan base that they were committed to winning. That should sound REALLY familiar to O's fans, who by the way, fill Oriole Park at about 50% capacity for most of the year. The Thrashers, and to an extent the Coyotes, shouldn't be used to tell the full story for hockey in the south, just like you couldn't use Quebec and Winnipeg in 1995 to tell the full story for the state of hockey in Canada.

[The Rick]

I just talked about this issue with a colleague who just moved up here from Atlanta, GA a few months ago. He mentioned that he knew several people who had Thrashers season tickets, and they're absolutely heart broken. He said that attendance has been down, but that there was a faithful, young following of that franchise and that Atlanta was just waiting to go crazy for Hockey whenever the Thrashers gave them a reason to.

IMO, this is a short sighted move by the former owner and the league. I know financial situations force your hand sometimes, I get that, but Atlanta had a lot of potential, IMO.

[Malike]

I for one am glad that Winnipeg is getting a team. Sucks its at the expense of Atl.

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[BaltimoreTerp]

I just talked about this issue with a colleague who just moved up here from Atlanta, GA a few months ago. He mentioned that he knew several people who had Thrashers season tickets, and they're absolutely heart broken. He said that attendance has been down, but that there was a faithful, young following of that franchise and that Atlanta was just waiting to go crazy for Hockey whenever the Thrashers gave them a reason to.

IMO, this is a short sighted move by the former owner and the league. I know financial situations force your hand sometimes, I get that, but Atlanta had a lot of potential, IMO.

Unfortunately, we live in a sports world where a fan base cannot go completely dormant, quality team or no.

Atlanta also has a well-deserved reputation for not supporting their winners, let alone their losers. So even if there are great fans (and I don't doubt for an instant there are) there's really little reason to assume that even a good team will draw enough. With the ownership that was in place, and the lack of others willing to take over, there was little chance of a good team in that organization.

Atlanta is a city I think could support hockey long-term under better circumstances, but they now have everything going against them getting another shot.