SPOILERS Topic for A Dance with Dragons

[ChaosLex]

Okay, just some things I'm hearing. Not sure how true they are. Please turn back now if you don't want to have the events of the upcoming novel ruined for you...


















It appears Jon is stabbed 4 times by members of the Night's Watch (including Bowen Marsh), who believe he's leading them in the wrong direction. It's unknown whether he lives or dies, but I'm guessing it'll be the former. Supposedly, the "assassination" is very Caesar-like.

Kevan Lannister is the epilogue character. Him and Pyrcelle and killed by Varys.

Supposedly, Roose Bolton kills Walder Frey immediately following the events of the Red Wedding. Can't say that makes much sense...

Sounds like Asha is killed in a chapter called "The Sacrifice."

Stannis is also rumored to die at the hands of Ramsay Bolton, when he leads an attack on Winterfell. At least, this is the claim Bolton makes in a letter, so it might be a bunch of b.s.

Quentyn Martell and Daeny become engaged. The former becomes a dragon tamer. It's also rumored that he in turn is killed by dragon fire.

Tyrion is sold into an entertainment group across the Narrow Sea. Eventually, he winds up being united with Jorah Mormont.

That's all I have for now. As things are further validated, I'll make revisions as needed.

[The Wedge]

Meh. I reserve judgement on any of those (if true) until I get them in context. If I would have gotten "bullet point" spoilers on Storm of Swords, I would have been pretty livid at how most of those sounded, but in context, it makes it the best book so far.

[ChaosLex]

Two more quick things.

Brienne is saved by Jaime, supposedly.

Davos is saved somehow by Rickon. Huh!?

[ChaosLex]

Oh, and before I forget, someone mentioned it was Varys who led Aerys II from being a "fair and just King" to the "Mad King." Hmm...

[ChaosLex]

Also, the remaining power players in the kingdom are Littlefinger, Roose Bolton and Varys. Hmm...

[Spoonless]

Sounds like Asha is killed in a chapter called "The Sacrifice."Oh ffffffffff... D:<

[JamesI]

I will confirm that I heard all the same stuff as chaoslex, with one exception. Sounded more like Brienne was free already when she finds Jaime.

Though from what I heard Jon Snow is dead (Though it is expected that Melisandre will bring him back the same way Catelyn was just soon so he's not disgusting).

[ChaosLex]

I will confirm that I heard all the same stuff as chaoslex, with one exception. Sounded more like Brienne was free already when she finds Jaime.

Though from what I heard Jon Snow is dead (Though it is expected that Melisandre will bring him back the same way Catelyn was just soon so he's not disgusting).

Ahhh... that would make sense for Brienne. Perhaps she's leading Jaime into a trap?

I'll be pissed if Jon is dead, especially since I wanted him to be King. :(

[JamesI]

Ahhh... that would make sense for Brienne. Perhaps she's leading Jaime into a trap?

I'll be pissed if Jon is dead, especially since I wanted him to be King. :(

If the rumors I heard are true Jon is dead at the end of book 5.

Entering speculation mode based on rumors.

But, I expect him to be alive at some point in book 6 (Melisandre could resurrect him ala Berric Dondarrion). Personally, I think his death is a way to allow him to forsake his Night watch vows and possibly become king.

Also, I doubt Brienne will lead Jaime into a trap. I think they'll make a cute couple.

After a little more info, it seems that Jon's death is open to interpretation. No one sees him dead, unlike Eddard in book 1. He is attacked, stabbed and in bad shape. But I've heard from one person he's dead and from another that its "unclear but unlikely he is actually dead".

[Spoonless]

For what it's worth, GRRM said on his Not-A-Blog that not all the spoilers are true.

I am considering going to the book signing on release day, as it's not far away, but I don't know if I feel like waiting in line for a non-personalized autograph.

[Spoonless]

Of course, I guess dead doesn't necessarily mean dead at this point in the series.

[ChaosLex]

Just finished the book myself. I'll first group the complete falsehoods in this topic below:

Dany: Engaged to Quentyn Martell
Aegon is Aurane Waters and has been raised by the Velaryons on Driftmark, with Varys overseeing
Theon kills jon
Howland Reed marches north to the wall with Edric Dayne and Gendry
Howland Reed is in the body of Arthur Dayne
Roose Bolton kills Lord Frey right after the red wedding (which is right at the end of ADWD)
Davys - almost dies but saved by Rickon!!!!
Jaime saves Brianne!

To clarify the above, Dany does not get engaged to Quentyn or indeed any of the suitors travelling to her. She marries a Ghiscari noble to broker a peace between Meereen and Yunkai.
Theon and Jon never meet, Howland Reed, Edric Dayne and Gendry are not featured at all, nor is Walder Frey.
Davos does not come close to dying - his last chapter ends with him being informed by Wyman Manderly that Bran and Rickon live (Wex, Theon's squire in CoK, saw them after the sack of Winterfell). He only knows that one of them is on Skaagos, and he sends Davos to find him so they can take Winterfell in his name (by this point, Ramsay is to marry Jeyne Poole (posing as Arya) so he can claim Winterfell. Manderly is feigning allegiance to the Boltons).
Jaime does not save Brienne. He is lifting the seige of another Robb Stark supporter and Brienne bursts into his tent. She tells him she has found Sansa and that Jaime must come quick or The Hound will kill her. This is his only chapter.

Doesn't Jon have Night's Watch men shoot him while he's being burned in like, one of his first chapters

Yes. But it isn't Mance. Mel has used some sorcery to disguise Mance as Rattleshirt and vice versa. Rattleshirt is the one who is burned, and Mance pretends to be Rattleshirt whilst at the Wall.

So who is the 3-eyed crow?

He is called Brynden. He isn't a character we've met before. He is half tree and lives with the last remaining Children of the Forest. I assume he is Bryden Rivers, one of Aegon the Unworthy's bastards, who was sent to the Wall and became Lord Commander. How he became a ****ing tree is not explained.

okay... I NEED conformation. Is Jon Snow dead? Does it specifically say that he died? Or is it left for us to decide?

His last chapter ends with him taking the knife blows and "not feeling the fourth" implying he is either dead or unconcious. It is left for the reader to decide. It implies death if you ask me; he is stabbed in both the back and belly several times. All is not lost though; Jon has a few skinchanging dreams again, and it is confirmed in the Prologue that when a skinchanger dies, he can jump into the body of his animal to live his "second life". Jon's last word is "Ghost". I wouldn't be surprised if Jon is dead, but will end up inhabiting Ghost's body for a time.

Also Tyrion?

Tyrion first travels with Jon Connington and Aegon heading for Dany. When it becomes clear that Dany intends to stay in Meereen for some time and not take Westeros, Aegon turns the Golden Company west to begin the invasion. At the same time, Jorah kidnaps Tyrion in hopes of delivering him to Dany to get back into her good graces. They meet Penny, a dwarf girl who was one of the dwarfs that jousted at Joffrey's wedding. The other has been beheaded by people looking for Tyrion. They travel by sea to Slavers Bay (and Penny begins to fall in love with Tyrion) and are wrecked in a storm. They are rescued by Slavers, and sold to a Yunkish noble. They escape and join the Second Sons, the company led by Brown Ben Plumm who has since betrayed Dany and gone over to the Yunkish. Tyrion intends to turn them back to Dany's side. This is how his story ends. Disappointing on a whole


A thought about Aegon being revealed to be alive:

It doesn't really make sense to me. Varys confirms he has been in on hiding him and training him for the Throne in the Epilogue. If they always had a Targaryen to restore, who would eventually have a huge sellsword company behind him, why fill Viserys head with dreams of retaking the throne? Why send Viserys off to get a Dothraki army, when if all had gone well and he took back the Iron Throne, Aegon would have showed up and said "sorry uncle, I have the better claim". Why not tell Viserys about Aegon so that he could have joined his Dothraki army to him? It's hard to believe George didn't pull this one out of his ass.

Also, more on Jon. During Mel's single chapter, she sees Jon in her fires changing from man to wolf and back agian. She thinks to herself that whenever she prays to see Azor Ahai the fires only show her Jon. Azor Ahai is said to be "reborn" in smoke and salt. One of Jon's wounds is "smoking" in the cold air and Bowen Marsh is crying tears (salt).

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/202-books-and-literature/59579314?page=2

[ChaosLex]

So, what do you make of Jon's "death" now? He's going to "die" become one with his direwolf (i.e., Ghost) and then be reborn again? Huh!?

[ChaosLex]

The baby Targaryen is still alive. Apparently, Varys covered it up.

Also, Ramsay Bolton makes Jeyne Poole have sex with a dog. WTF!?

[ChaosLex]

It appears Jon is stabbed 4 times by members of the Night's Watch (including Bowen Marsh), who believe he's leading them in the wrong direction. It's unknown whether he lives or dies, but I'm guessing it'll be the former. Supposedly, the "assassination" is very Caesar-like.

Okay, this is confirmed as real. Sounds like it's only a few members of the Night's Watch attacking Jon though. Whether he's alive or dead is indeed a mystery, although it's said that he might end up inhabiting Ghost's body.

Kevan Lannister is the epilogue character. Him and Pyrcelle and killed by Varys.

Haven't been able to confirm this.

Supposedly, Roose Bolton kills Walder Frey immediately following the events of the Red Wedding.

This was b.s.

Sounds like Asha is killed in a chapter called "The Sacrifice."

Haven't been able to confirm this.

Stannis is also rumored to die at the hands of Ramsay Bolton, when he leads an attack on Winterfell. At least, this is the claim Bolton makes in a letter, so it might be a bunch of b.s.

Haven't been able to confirm this, although it sounds like Jon wants the Night's Watch to ride there.

Quentyn Martell and Daeny become engaged. The former becomes a dragon tamer. It's also rumored that he in turn is killed by dragon fire.

Total b.s. Daeny marries someone else to form an alliance between Mereen and another one of the Free Cities.

Tyrion is sold into an entertainment group across the Narrow Sea. Eventually, he winds up being united with Jorah Mormont.

Sounds like Tyrion is a slave who's bought by Jorah Mormont, who hopes to sell him to Daeny and come back into her good graces.

[Spoonless]

:laughlol: I'm just going to bow out of this thread for now. The book comes out in under a week, and I'm sure I'll be done with it in three or less days after that anyway.

[ChaosLex]

Brienne is saved by Jaime, supposedly.

This is b.s. However, Brienne does come to Jaime. It's thought she's leading him into a trap set by Stoneheart.

Davos is saved somehow by Rickon. Huh!?

Sounds like Davos does come into contact with Rickon. The part about being saved is a bunch of b.s. though.

[JamesI]

Dancing with Dragons!

Nice to see Jon, Bran, Dany and Tyrion again after missing them in book 4.

[ChaosLex]

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2011/07/trs_a_dance_with_dragons_discussion_page_spoilers. php

[JamesI]

Finished the book. Have to say, wow. Can't believe how it ended. Even after the spoilers, never really thought that would happen.

[ChaosLex]

Slynt just got PWNED. Booyah!

[JamesI]

I don't see how GRRM can finish the series in just 2 more books. Way too many questions to answer, still so many characters spread across the world (though somewhat jumbled by the end with so many characters in the Mereen area).

I'm going to try to give some feelings on the book without giving too much away.

Loved Ser Barristan getting his own chapters.

Good to see Ser Jorah again.

Not sure how to feel about Theon. Simultaneously felt sorry for him, was rooting for him, and wanting to see someone drive their sword through him.

On a related note, Ramsay Bolton may have vaulted to the top of the hated characters list.

Great to see Janos Slynt's fate.

Quentyn Martell is an idiot.

Loved what happens to Cersei.

Ser Robert Strong.

The Griff storyline came as a surprise. Didn't see that coming.

Wished there had been more with Jaime.

[square634]

I just finished this last night and have to say I was disappointed. I thought it was ponderous, with sadly little plot advancement (outside of the Bran storyline, but that disappeared for the latter two thirds of the novel). It was more like feast for crows than storm of swords for me. Part of my problem might be that I don't care at all about Mereen. I don't understand why it took GRRM 5 years to write honestly.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[JamesI]

Square, Mereen has become an important part of the storyline.

The events of Feast and Dance (and sadly it looks like some of Winds) were all supposed to be skipped over and told through some flashbacks as the story was supposed to jump 5 years forward. That became impossible for GRRM to write.

I'm worried the story has slowed down and is becoming more like the Wheel of Time, which started well I thought and through the middle was ponderous. I hope that's not true and Martin can close the story in the next 2-3 books (I really don't believe it will only take 2 more books).

Now, I don't think everything that happened in Feast/Dance could have been handled in flashback especially the Jon Snow, Jaime Lannister/Cersei Lannister, and Bran Stark storylines. The story of Sansa, Littlefinger, Arya, Dany, Theon, Stannis, Tyrion could all probably have been covered in flashback.

I think it would have been a copout to deal with the Griff/Young Griff story in flashback.

[square634]

Square, Mereen has become an important part of the storyline.

The events of Feast and Dance (and sadly it looks like some of Winds) were all supposed to be skipped over and told through some flashbacks as the story was supposed to jump 5 years forward. That became impossible for GRRM to write.

I'm worried the story has slowed down and is becoming more like the Wheel of Time, which started well I thought and through the middle was ponderous. I hope that's not true and Martin can close the story in the next 2-3 books (I really don't believe it will only take 2 more books).

Now, I don't think everything that happened in Feast/Dance could have been handled in flashback especially the Jon Snow, Jaime Lannister/Cersei Lannister, and Bran Stark storylines. The story of Sansa, Littlefinger, Arya, Dany, Theon, Stannis, Tyrion could all probably have been covered in flashback.

I think it would have been a copout to deal with the Griff/Young Griff story in flashback.

Yeah, my dad made the comparison to Wheel of Time the other day (for reference, my older brother is a reverent Robert Jordan fan, my younger brother liked the early WoT books but thought they had declined rapidly until Sanderson started on the project, my dad loved the first 4-5 or so books but then hated the next two and never continued, and I couldn't even make it through the Eye of The World). Adding a Targaryen to the mix at this point with no foreshadowing was kind of sketchy, but whatever. Mostly I didn't like the Daenarys, Tyrion, or Quentyn storylines (especially Tyrion because he's my favorite character). I get that GRRM wanted to stay true to the characters, but he could have written a way for the story to recenter on Westeros. Instead, there was a whole lot of nothing to set up for the characters to reunite in the next book. Also, events seem to have less gravity now than they did in the earlier books because things can be undone by magic or otherwise explained. The Mance Rayder reveal, for example, was a resounding "meh" for me.


To me, the Bran chapters had the best feel to them because like in earlier books, there was actually advancement in each of his chapters. Sometimes I think GRRM tries to make things too epic, and when certain threads threaten to near resolution, he just adds new characters or keeps things stagnant. For example, I have been waiting for Arya to become awesome for a while now -- and a couple training chapters would have been cool -- but I am getting tired of two entire books filled with "Who are you?" "No one." "You lie, you are Arya of House Stark" conversations.

All in all, I guess considering how many years GRRM has left certain plot lines loose (especially Tyrion's) with the Feast for Crows split, I was disappointed with the relative lack of substance. It's not that this book is worse than Feast for Crows, the previous weakest in the series, it's just that it's not that much better in my view. I am certainly puzzled by how positive the reviews are compared to past books in the series and wonder whether it might have to do with momentum from the HBO series.

[Malike]

Just finished the book. Mostly found it boring, just like AFFC. I'm pretty pissed with the end of the book, also. I can't believe it took Martin 5 years to get this out. At least I don't feel a burning need to read the next one, so if it takes another 5 years I'm okay with that.

[JamesI]

Just finished the book. Mostly found it boring, just like AFFC. I'm pretty pissed with the end of the book, also. I can't believe it took Martin 5 years to get this out. At least I don't feel a burning need to read the next one, so if it takes another 5 years I'm okay with that.

I must be one of the few who didn't mind AFFC and I liked ADWD. Sure, its not as good as Storm of Swords, but they were good books.

I'll personally be really upset if its another 5 years to find out what happens next. Like is he really dead or not...

[Malike]

I must be one of the few who didn't mind AFFC and I liked ADWD. Sure, its not as good as Storm of Swords, but they were good books.

I'll personally be really upset if its another 5 years to find out what happens next. Like is he really dead or not...

4 times. He's dead I suspect.

[JamesI]

4 times. He's dead I suspect.

I dunno. His body is likely dead, but his mind might have taken over the wolf's body.

Plus Melisandre could possibly bring him back like was done with Lord Berric and Cat.

Seems like a lot has been done with the character for him to just be dead now.

[ChaosLex]

I dunno. His body is likely dead, but his mind might have taken over the wolf's body.

Plus Melisandre could possibly bring him back like was done with Lord Berric and Cat.

Seems like a lot has been done with the character for him to just be dead now.

Agreed with this. Also, Melisandre saw Jon in her flames changing from human form to animal back to human form again.

As others have mentioned, this might free up Jon's obligation to the Night's Watch. And as I believe Jon has Targaryen blood, I wouldn't be surprised to see him join up with (and possibly even marrying) Daeny eventually.

[ChaosLex]

BTW, I love the fact that the Freys who were treating with Manderly went "missing" on their way to Winterfell. Haha.

PWNED!

[DuffMan]

Itching to get into this thread. I'm about 1/2 way through ADWD now and am really enjoying it. I don't want anything spoiled so that's why I've been avoiding this thread for the time being. I did want to say that I'm like ADWD alot more than Feast of Crows.

[Mooreisbetter27]

Finished ADwD about a week ago. I liked the book, but god Dany's chapters were so boring and pointless. Theon had the best chapters IMO and made me actually feel for him.

Arya needed more chapters TBQH.. her two were good though.

Jon Snow - Azor Ahai.. now I only have to wait 5 years to read what happens next.

[ChaosLex]

Do y'all think Stannis is dead? I say no way in hell.

[DuffMan]

BTW, I love the fact that the Freys who were treating with Manderly went "missing" on their way to Winterfell. Haha.

PWNED!

I read somewhere else that Manderly had them put on the pies/dinner and then him and the other dudes were eating them at Winterfell


Do y'all think Stannis is dead? I say no way in hell.

No way Stannis is dead, if he was why would Ramsay be asking for Jeyne and Theon back. They were at Stannis camp. If he had killed Stannis he'd have those two back as well.

Just finished this yesterday I'll post a few more thoughts/questions later.


And one quick thought now, is it safe to assume that Cold Hands is Benjen Stark?

[JamesI]

I read somewhere else that Manderly had them put on the pies/dinner and then him and the other dudes were eating them at Winterfell



No way Stannis is dead, if he was why would Ramsay be asking for Jeyne and Theon back. They were at Stannis camp. If he had killed Stannis he'd have those two back as well.

Just finished this yesterday I'll post a few more thoughts/questions later.


And one quick thought now, is it safe to assume that Cold Hands is Benjen Stark?

I don't think Stannis is dead.

It seems likely Benjen is Coldhands, but not 100%.

[ChaosLex]

Just read Jon's last chapter. Grrrrrrrrr...

[JamesI]

Just read Jon's last chapter. Grrrrrrrrr...Jon's going to be pissed when he's not dead anymore.

[ChaosLex]

A couple of things I didn't pick up on:

Theon was castrated by Ramsay Bolton. This is hinted a couple of times.

Tyrion killed Nurse w/ the poisonous mushrooms. I thought the illness spreading through the camps got him.

Manderly not only had the Freys killed, he had them ground up and served in the pies at Ramsay's wedding feast. LOL

[DuffMan]

A couple of things I didn't pick up on:

Theon was castrated by Ramsay Bolton. This is hinted a couple of times.

Tyrion killed Nurse w/ the poisonous mushrooms. I thought the illness spreading through the camps got him.

Manderly not only had the Freys killed, he had them ground up and served in the pies at Ramsay's wedding feast. LOL

Are we sure about Theon being castrated. I've read everything from he was castrated to, little Theon was flayed (o man that's gotta hurt) to nothing at all happening.

I didn't hear that about Tyrion either, but I guess that makes sense.

I like the fact that pretty much nobody likes the Frey's at all no matter what side they're on.

A few other thoughts/complaints from this book. I really enjoyed the Davos chapters in this book (he kind of reminds me of Ned a little bit) but was disappointed that there were only a couple of his chapters to be read. I know he's more of a minor character, but was hoping he would get a few more chapters.

I'm not as interest in Arya's character as I used to be. When she was traveling through Westeros with her "friends" and then roaming around with the Hound I thought she was much more interesting. Not sure what her role is going forward though I admit it could be important to the story. So I guess I'll have to wait and see. On the flip side I really enjoyed Bran's chapters.

Nice to see Cersei get some humble pie, but I hope that she's got more coming to her.

Brienne is alive and found Jamie. Is he done for or are the two going to try and flip Stoneheart (zombie Catelynn)?

The Dany chapters were a bit frustrating to me. I was hoping she would've been out of Mereen by the end of that book, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

James mentioned it early and I'll share his worries as well. I'm not so sure Martin will be able to finish this series in just 2 more books. There just seems like there's two much going on and too many characters out there right now. Maybe he gets it done in 2, but 3 seems more likely at this point.


Quentyn wasn't too smart and when you play with fire you are going to get burned. Thinking you could just waltz in there and try and take a couple of dragons because you know their names and you have a drop of dragons blood in you.

[ChaosLex]

Are we sure about Theon being castrated. I've read everything from he was castrated to, little Theon was flayed (o man that's gotta hurt) to nothing at all happening.

I didn't hear that about Tyrion either, but I guess that makes sense.

I like the fact that pretty much nobody likes the Frey's at all no matter what side they're on.

A few other thoughts/complaints from this book. I really enjoyed the Davos chapters in this book (he kind of reminds me of Ned a little bit) but was disappointed that there were only a couple of his chapters to be read. I know he's more of a minor character, but was hoping he would get a few more chapters.

I'm not as interest in Arya's character as I used to be. When she was traveling through Westeros with her "friends" and then roaming around with the Hound I thought she was much more interesting. Not sure what her role is going forward though I admit it could be important to the story. So I guess I'll have to wait and see. On the flip side I really enjoyed Bran's chapters.

Nice to see Cersei get some humble pie, but I hope that she's got more coming to her.

Brienne is alive and found Jamie. Is he done for or are the two going to try and flip Stoneheart (zombie Catelynn)?

The Dany chapters were a bit frustrating to me. I was hoping she would've been out of Mereen by the end of that book, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

James mentioned it early and I'll share his worries as well. I'm not so sure Martin will be able to finish this series in just 2 more books. There just seems like there's two much going on and too many characters out there right now. Maybe he gets it done in 2, but 3 seems more likely at this point.


Quentyn wasn't too smart and when you play with fire you are going to get burned. Thinking you could just waltz in there and try and take a couple of dragons because you know their names and you have a drop of dragons blood in you.

I think Theon mentioned that whenever you get flayed, you beg to have the finger, toe, etc., amputated. *winces*

Given she's becoming an assassin, I think Arya will wind up killing Cersei. Perhaps even zombie-Gregor Clegane?

Don't quote me, but I think Martin mentioned recently that he might expand the series to an 8th book. Haha.

Yeah, Quentyn is/was a moron. As for the dragons, if it's true that R + L = J, I think the white dragon (i.e., the more docile one) will eventually be Jon's dragon, provided he's one of the three heads. Thoughts!?

[JamesI]

I think Theon mentioned that whenever you get flayed, you beg to have the finger, toe, etc., amputated. *winces*

Given she's becoming an assassin, I think Arya will wind up killing Cersei. Perhaps even zombie-Gregor Clegane?

Don't quote me, but I think Martin mentioned recently that he might expand the series to an 8th book. Haha.

Yeah, Quentyn is/was a moron. As for the dragons, if it's true that R + L = J, I think the white dragon (i.e., the more docile one) will eventually be Jon's dragon, provided he's one of the three heads. Thoughts!?

According to the Frog's prediction to Cersei (recounted in Feast) Cersei will be strangled by her "little brother" Now the obvious choice is Tyrion, but since Jamie is the younger of the two, he might qualify.

Pretty sure Theon is a eunuch now. He got the little guy flayed, ow.

[soxluvmywieters]

Did anyone else get the feeling that Martin didn't know exactly what to do with Dany in this Book? Her chapters all just seemed like filler while everyone else did their thing.

I'm also confused as to how Arya is fitting into the main plot at this point. I like the thought of her as a faceless man though.

And Jon is definitely Azor Ahai. In the chapter before his last I remember a dream he had where he saw himself surrounded by dead men while wearing black armor of ice and a sword glowing red as fire in his hand. Plus why else would Melsisandre be so interested in him.

And last but not least, I'm not sure about Theon being a eunuch. The one girl grabbed his junk when he was sitting at the table and didn't seemed freaked out about what she felt. However, he had one of the best lines in the series, at the end of Asha's last chapter, "My name is Theon, you have to know your name."

[ChaosLex]

Does everyone still think R + L = J?

[DuffMan]

Does everyone still think R + L = J?

There was a couple of mentions of R and L and the "false" spring through out the story. So it seems like it's still a possibility.

[DuffMan]

Did anyone else get the feeling that Martin didn't know exactly what to do with Dany in this Book? Her chapters all just seemed like filler while everyone else did their thing.

And last but not least, I'm not sure about Theon being a eunuch. The one girl grabbed his junk when he was sitting at the table and didn't seemed freaked out about what she felt. However, he had one of the best lines in the series, at the end of Asha's last chapter, "My name is Theon, you have to know your name."

The Dany chapters did feel a bit like filler to me.

And as for Theon I'm with you in the camp of thinking he still has little Theon. Although the dude's been put through the ringer. (shoul'dve stayed with the Starks!) The whole Reek/Ramsay situation is messed up, starting with the original Reek and then with Theon becoming the new Reek.

[soxluvmywieters]

The Dany chapters did feel a bit like filler to me.

And as for Theon I'm with you in the camp of thinking he still has little Theon. Although the dude's been put through the ringer. (shoul'dve stayed with the Starks!) The whole Reek/Ramsay situation is messed up, starting with the original Reek and then with Theon becoming the new Reek.

I could have just read some passages wrong, but I kind of got the feeling that Ramsey isn't the real Ramsey. That the original Reek is the real Ramsey. And he is now doing the same thing to Theon now.

One other thing, I can definitely see Tyrion coming out of all this at the top.

[Gurgi]

Martin has lost his way. It was a very ponderous and mostly boring read. And the guy puts in soooooo many characters I cant keep them straight in my mind.

And the goofy things Ramsey is doing? Reek rhymes with WEAK. As in WEAK writing.

I hate to say it but Martin must be a perv or a real twisted freak. Stop the scenes of Ramsey being forced to go down on an 11 year old girl. Just stop it!

Tyrion and Sansa was creepy enough. But at least the dwarf stayed drunk and he didnt do anything on his wedding night.

I guess I will read the next one. But only because I have put in so much time already. I really aint expecting much.

I got to say I think it is a major fail.

As a note at the end. It feels good to rip Martin and not have to think much about Flanagan killing himself tonight. I cried a good ten minutes. The post game and the thread was just numbing.