Same ole same ole

[oriolefan1035]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/gammons-on-trade-market.html

No surprise to anyone here...same Peter Angelos. We're doomed to suck til he dies (at least).

[SilentJames]

Andy has been able to pull off some pretty decent trades since he has been here. The real problem is do you trade Jones? I mean that is a big question for a lot of people.

[Moose Milligan]

Andy has been able to pull off some pretty decent trades since he has been here. The real problem is do you trade Jones? I mean that is a big question for a lot of people.

I've been hard on him, but I wouldn't trade him. He's not part of the problem.

[scOtt]

Orioles president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail is in a tough spot because he doesn't know which way owner Peter Angelos wants him to go, according to a rival GM.

I see that as kinda encouraging. I read it as not being sure whether to spend and go for it, or firesale and rebuild. Normally he'd just be all stay the course. Business as usual.

Sounds like they see it as Should I stay or should I go now.

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[Sanfran327]

I think we are way to close to being good to have a firesale. You would have to convince me that Britton, Matusz, and Tillman are never going to make it as MLB starters for me to want to sell. I just think we've been on the brink for a while, being unable to break through.

I would, however, package Guts and Tillman together for Rasmus.

[vab]

There's a good chance the answer to MacPhail's question is going to be - away.

[MrOrange82]

I know this won't settle the debate, and I've gone on the record as being against trading Jones (though recently my thoughts have turned to cleaning house entirely...if it could be done intelligently...which I don't think it could under the current administration...and around we go..), but the Orioles are not going to trade Jones this season. Period. A big part of the team's current, in-season promotion lineup is "2110 Eutaw Street." If for no other reason than money (i.e. tickets/concessions sold), the O's (and Angelos) aren't going to rock that boat. Same goes for Markakis.

Maybe this winter something will happen with those players, but it's not happening this July.

[WEAVERMAN]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/gammons-on-trade-market.html

No surprise to anyone here...same Peter Angelos. We're doomed to suck til he dies (at least).


I thought MacPhail and PGA talked every week. Sure they do.:rolleyes:

[Sports Guy]

Andy has been able to pull off some pretty decent trades since he has been here. The real problem is do you trade Jones? I mean that is a big question for a lot of people.

Of course you trade him...if the right trade is there. And it will be.

[JTrea81]

I thought MacPhail and PGA talked every week. Sure they do.:rolleyes:

Perhaps Buck knows more about "the plan" than Andy...

[Sports Guy]

You should have had this figured out when it was obvious they weren't going to contend.

On top of that, you just had time off and you still didn't figure this out?

Freakin pathetic.

Hey PA....GET THE HELL AWAY FROM THIS TEAM...YOU ARE THE WORST!!

[bassgtrst]

As fans, we over value our own guys too much. I don't think there is anyway Guthrie and Tillman get you Rasmus. Those two might get you Alonso+ though.

[paulcoates]

Great. This is more meddling from our owner. I figured that this entire time about Angelos stepping out of the baseball portion of our operations was total BS. And to think, I have been berated time and time again on here because MacPhail said otherwise plenty of times. Now we are finding out that this was basically a cover story. So, is it MacPhail that is the slow negotiator? Or is it the the amount of time it takes to hear back from The Destructor (PA)?

We are 20 games under .500 - Why would you need to run anything by the owner. This organization sucks, from top to bottom - mostly Top.

I actually feel bad for the players. To have to play for an organization (read owner) that can't do anything right is downright brutal.

[ShaneDawg85]

And some people think MacPhail is the biggest thing holding this organization back?

[Dipper9]

" a rival GM?"

Theo Epstein perhaps? Perhaps someone with a little grudge against the O's?

I'm not syaing its not true, but anytime someone uses Angelos as an excuse, it just seems like an easy copout to me. MacPhail has had Angelos' ear up to now, but suddenly Pete "isn't sure which way to go?" The only thing I am sure of is its time for MacPhail to go.

[NattieO'sHon]

Lets not jump to conclusions. We got plenty of time to make a trade. There is not much to trade except Jones. I for one is against trading Jones. Lock him up before he gets too expensive.

[paulcoates]

Does Angelos truly think he is doing the Baltimore Orioles, and especially the community of Baltimore Orioles fans a service by running this team? He might be a great lawyer and a great charity guy, but he is a flat out terrible owner. I'd rather have Daniel Snyder running the Orioles - at least he spends money.

[NattieO'sHon]

Does Angelos truly think he is doing the Baltimore Orioles, and especially the community of Baltimore Orioles fans a service by running this team? He might be a great lawyer and a great charity guy, but he is a flat out terrible owner. I'd rather have Daniel Snyder running the Orioles - at least he spends money.

First, let me be clear that I am not defending Angelos. He destroyed this once proud franchise. However, to say he will not spend the money is absurd. He once had the highest payroll in all of baseball and the first to reach $100 Million. The issue is not spending the money but how to spend the money. We debate this among ourselves here daily. I would like to here from some local sources before I make judgement on what Gammons wrote.

[connja]

Andy has been able to pull off some pretty decent trades since he has been here. The real problem is do you trade Jones? I mean that is a big question for a lot of people.

I can't believe anyone would even consider trading Jones. He's been our best player and is under 25. you'd have to be really blown away to trade him.

[JERSEYORIOLE]

I actually LOL at these threads. People reacting to reporters and twitters from people that may or may not know anything and some of which is completely made up. All you guys that give credence to " reported from source" or " unnamed GM" or "insider" are giving yourselves agida for no reason. Do you really think any organization is going to let their plans be known? They would not be worth their salt if they were not sending out mixed messages. For all of those of you that believe all this crap, I run a poker game every monday night. You are all invited ;)

[paulcoates]

Let's not act like this wouldn't be a big surprise if true either. Just because Angelos himself didn't say it, does not make it impossible that the tiger hasn't changes his stripes, afterall, the team is still performing like the teams of 10 years ago when he virtually was. Andy isn't going to sell him out, but let's not act like this would be a surprise if we found this to be the case

[SilentJames]

First, let me be clear that I am not defending Angelos. He destroyed this once proud franchise. However, to say he will not spend the money is absurd. He once had the highest payroll in all of baseball and the first to reach $100 Million. The issue is not spending the money but how to spend the money. We debate this among ourselves here daily. I would like to here from some local sources before I make judgement on what Gammons wrote.

Angelos' Orioles never reached 100 million. The era you are thinking of the highest the O's payroll got was $83.14 million ( http://www.thebaseballcube.com/stats.asp?Y=2000&T=4 ). They did have the highest payroll in the league in 1998, at just over $70 mil. That doesn't illustrate Angelos' willingness to spend so much as how far out of whack baseball payrolls got in the interim.

Angelos has been a large problem for this team. I don't consider him the Snydley Whiplash character that some do, but he has been a real problem. Over the last few years he seems to have "gotten it" but it has been too little FAR too late.

[RVAbird]

I actually LOL at these threads. People reacting to reporters and twitters from people that may or may not know anything and some of which is completely made up. All you guys that give credence to " reported from source" or " unnamed GM" or "insider" are giving yourselves agida for no reason. Do you really think any organization is going to let their plans be known? They would not be worth their salt if they were not sending out mixed messages. For all of those of you that believe all this crap, I run a poker game every monday night. You are all invited ;)

If the Orioles have a plan right now, it must be a very confusing one. I don't believe MacPhail is shielding his plan from anyone right now, I just think he's lost. All of the work he put into his plan from day one hasn't produced a single tangible improvement in the win column and his contract is up at the end of the season. He just locked up one of his most tradable assets, a type-A free agent to boot, and has little else to deal from to restock the system. He doesn't know what to do about Jeremy Guthrie right now, and the Orioles have so many holes and such limited payroll flexibility that an all-in approach in the FA market this offseason (which is also characteristically un-MacPhail) probably wouldn't work.

I don't think you really need quotes from unnammed GMs to infer that the front office probably has no idea what the hell it's supposed to do now.

[Remember The Alomar]

Tidbit from the Sheehan's most recent news letter:


Baltimore Orioles, minor seller. The J.J. Hardy signing knocks them down from "major seller," as they have nothing major left to move. That signing deserves its own discussion, to be honest. With Hardy locked up, you're left with the failed signings of last winter, which now have little or no trade value (Derrek Lee, just-DL'd Vladimir Guerrero, Kevin Gregg), as well as Jeremy Guthrie, who probably wouldn't start a playoff game for a good team. Buying into last year's finish -- which was an illusion created by a goofy record in one-run games under Buck Showalter -- cost the Orioles an entire year of progress.

[Meh_Orioles]

Tidbit from the Sheehan's most recent news letter:

Brutal honesty.

[Beeracuda]

I still believe that Angelos hasn't a single care whether this team wins or loses. To him, it's simply a way to make money. And he certainly does that. The reason that he doesn't spend much on payroll anymore is because he doesn't have to. He's already figured out that he'd make more profit by putting less money into guaranteed contracts at the expense of losing a few fans at the turnstiles. The loss at the gate is partially made up through walk-up ticket price increases, and out of town visitors. Remember that nearly 1/4 of our home games are against the Yankees and Red Sox, and all the fans they bring on the road, not to mention that the ticket prices for those games are increased as well. Add to that, a very profitable sum he makes from MASN, and he makes tons of money off this team, even if there are only 10-12,000 in the seats.

He's a business man, and from the standpoint of the fans, he sucks. But from a business standpoint, he's very successful, which is why he got to be as rich as he is.

[Dipper9]

I still believe that Angelos hasn't a single care whether this team wins or loses. To him, it's simply a way to make money. And he certainly does that. The reason that he doesn't spend much on payroll anymore is because he doesn't have to. He's already figured out that he'd make more profit by putting less money into guaranteed contracts at the expense of losing a few fans at the turnstiles. The loss at the gate is partially made up through walk-up ticket price increases, and out of town visitors. Remember that nearly 1/4 of our home games are against the Yankees and Red Sox, and all the fans they bring on the road, not to mention that the ticket prices for those games are increased as well. Add to that, a very profitable sum he makes from MASN, and he makes tons of money off this team, even if there are only 10-12,000 in the seats.

He's a business man, and from the standpoint of the fans, he sucks. But from a business standpoint, he's very successful, which is why he got to be as rich as he is.

This is such a ridiculous argument. If he doesn't care whether we win or lose, what possible reason would he have for interfering? Why not sit bacl, let his baseball people do their jobs, and make money either way? There is NO reason.

[Sports Guy]

Lets not jump to conclusions. We got plenty of time to make a trade. There is not much to trade except Jones. I for one is against trading Jones. Lock him up before he gets too expensive.

Too late.

[JERSEYORIOLE]

This is such a ridiculous argument. If he doesn't care whether we win or lose, what possible reason would he have for interfering? Why not sit bacl, let his baseball people do their jobs, and make money either way? There is NO reason.

I agree. PA has more money then he will ever need. The fact that he does get involved, means he does care. Is he doing things wrong? Obviously so. Does he think he knows what he is doing? Probably. Will that change? Probably not. But to say he doesn't care, makes little sense.