Zreibec: Orioles close to trading Koji to RANGERS

[SilentJames]

#orioles are close to trading koji uehara to rangers. Details as they come

http://twitter.com/#!/jeffzrebiecsun

[Enjoy Terror]

Sounds good. Get this done before he goes on the DL again.

[crissfan172]

Ah...you beat me! I'll go delete my thread.


Not sure this makes sense for the Rangers. He has struggled pitching in that heat in the past.

[SilentJames]

Connolly confirms

danconnollysun Dan Connolly
Looks like KKoji Uehara is haded to the Texas Rangers for Koji Uehara. More details coming

[JTrea81]

Well the Rangers have tons of talent.

Wonder if we'll see Chris Davis in the deal?

The O's like to go after players 2 years after they should have...

[SilentJames]

danconnollysun Dan Connolly
Looks like it will be for Chris davis, according to a source. Again, more info coming


CHRIS DAVIS?!

[MrOrange82]

danconnollysun dan connolly
looks like it will be for chris davis, according to a source. Again, more info coming


chris davis?!

what the...?

[crissfan172]

Well the Rangers have tons of talent.

Wonder if we'll see Chris Davis in the deal?

The O's like to go after players 2 years after they should have...

My thoughts as well. Then...sure enough...confirmed by Twitter.

He has flaws for sure, but I still like it.

[JTrea81]

Ha ha, predictable.

Wonder if Mr. Hart had anything to do with this...

We'll have bookends at the corners.

Two 3B man that can't field, have huge power #'s and strikeout a ton.

[Skeletor]

Connolly confirms

danconnollysun Dan Connolly
Looks like KKoji Uehara is haded to the Texas Rangers for Koji Uehara. More details coming

That sounds like a win-win.

[SilentJames]

what the...?

Davis would be a great pickup. excitement

[JTrea81]

Davis would be a great pickup. excitement

He's a left handed Mark Reynolds basically.

[MrOrange82]

Davis would be a great pickup. excitement

Agreed. I'm just shocked Koji might net Davis. He's got huge holes, and might wind up being one of those players stuck in the void between AAA and the majors, but he's definitely got nothing left to prove in the minors.

[Brian88]

Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter

http://twitter.com/danconnollysun/status/97416406139797504

[JTrea81]

Agreed. I'm just shocked Koji might net Davis. He's got huge holes, and might wind up being one of those players stuck in the void between AAA and the majors, but he's definitely got nothing left to prove in the minors.

I'm actually shocked Koji didn't net more...

[Dipper9]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/davisch02.shtml

Wow. We gotta be getting more than that, right? Right?

Nevermind, I see.

[SilentJames]

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Confirmed: #Rangers obtaining Uehara from #Orioles for two major leaguers including Davis. #tradedeadline #MLB

Getting a ML pitcher too.

[laxtonto]

Um..... Um..... If this is true, I think O's just got took...

[SilentJames]

Connolly::
Tommy Hunter and Chris Davis appear to be in the deal for Koji. More details coming

[MrOrange82]

Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter

http://twitter.com/danconnollysun/status/97416406139797504

I'm stunned.

[SilentJames]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hunteto02.shtml

[Can_of_corn]

Ah...you beat me! I'll go delete my thread.


Not sure this makes sense for the Rangers. He has struggled pitching in that heat in the past.

As a starter yes, I do not recall the heat being an issue for 1-2 inning outings.

[Babypowder]

We should be targeting prospects, not old flawed semi prospects. Another indication that they do not intend to rebuild... a shame really. Looks like it is very possible that we're doomed to more of the same mediocre to bad teams for a while guys.

[MrOrange82]

I'm actually shocked Koji didn't net more...

Two MLers for a 36 year old reliever? I'll take it. I thought 2-3 B/C prospects would be the ceiling.

[laxtonto]

Hopefully the team sends Hunter back down and stretches him back out as a SP... Can be a serviceable #5 or Longman.

Daivs has his problems. He is a much better 1B than any other position. Light tower power and a hole in his swing you can run a truck through..

[JTrea81]

Davis and Reynolds could combine for 65-70 HR and 300-350 Ks.

[The Rick]

Hunter can be a good starter if he can get healthy, this is a nice trade for us, IMO.

[Dipper9]

Is this an indication that Lee is gone? To the Bucs or Diamondbacks? Otherwise, where will Davis see his at bats????

[El Gordo]

I'm stunned.Pretty good return, IMO. Maybe they are moving DLee as well, to make room for Davis. Hunter goes right intoo the rotation. makes it easier to move Guts.

[SteveA]

We should be targeting prospects, not old flawed semi prospects. Another indication that they do not intend to rebuild... a shame really. Looks like it is very possible that we're doomed to more of the same mediocre to bad teams for a while guys.

What's flawed about Hunter?

A 25 year old who put up ERA+ of 114 at age 23 and 120 at age 24 as a starter in a hitter's park, and has been hurt this year.

[Tank]

Is this an indication that Lee is gone? To the Bucs or Diamondbacks? Otherwise, where will Davis see his at bats????

I was thinking the same thing. Hes got nothing to prove at AAA and we have no room for him at 1B or DH.

I'd say hes Mark Reynolds with a better average but without the walks.

[Tank]

Pretty good return, IMO. Maybe they are moving DLee as well, to make room for Davis. Hunter goes right intoo the rotation. makes it easier to move Guts.

I don't know much about Hunter. 25 years old. I'd like to learn some more before I decide how I feel about the trade.

Hopefully this sets up trades of Guthrie and Lee.

[SteveA]

Hopefully the team sends Hunter back down and stretches him back out as a SP... Can be a serviceable #5 or Longman.

Daivs has his problems. He is a much better 1B than any other position. Light tower power and a hole in his swing you can run a truck through..

Why is a guy who had an ERA+ of 114 at age 23, and 120 at age 24, someone who can be a "servicable #5" at age 25?

[Dipper9]

I was thinking the same thing. Hes got nothing to prove at AAA and we have no room for him at 1B or DH.

I'd say hes Mark Reynolds with a better average but without the walks.

His OBP is .299, so he may have Reynolds power but that's about it. May be more like our old friend Tony Batista...all or nothing.

[Skeletor]

That's a decent get for Koji, IMO. Davis could flip the switch and Hunter is a good pitcher, when healthy. Not sure how you could have expected better from an old reliever.

[crissfan172]

Is this an indication that Lee is gone? To the Bucs or Diamondbacks? Otherwise, where will Davis see his at bats????

I thought this as well. I think Lee will definitely be gone by tomorrow afternoon.

[MrOrange82]

I was thinking the same thing. Hes got nothing to prove at AAA and we have no room for him at 1B or DH.

I'd say hes Mark Reynolds with a better average but without the walks.

Looking forward to seeing what he can do on an everyday basis. On paper, this looks like a very good trade.

[The Rick]

That's a decent get for Koji, IMO. Davis could flip the switch and Hunter is a good pitcher, when healthy. Not sure how you could have expected better from an old reliever.\

This trade is all about Hunter, IMO.

Davis could be a late bloomer, or an AAAA. We're in the position to find out.

[Tank]

His OBP is .299, so he may have Reynolds power but that's about it. May be more like our old friend Tony Batista...all or nothing.

Like I said, without the walks. But hes shown he can hit for a higher average in the minors.

[SilentJames]

Pretty good return, IMO. Maybe they are moving DLee as well, to make room for Davis. Hunter goes right intoo the rotation. makes it easier to move Guts.

Hunter Strained his groin, last year he was MORE than solid for the Rangers. He gets healthy this is a great trade.

[Dipper9]

That's a decent get for Koji, IMO. Davis could flip the switch and Hunter is a good pitcher, when healthy. Not sure how you could have expected better from an old reliever.

I agree. Its a good trade for Koji. I didn't expecty much, and MAYBE we didn't get much, but Davis is still young enough that he could become something special. Time will tell.

JTrea...sorry to burst your bubble, but now that Davis is here, the Orioles' front office will say they have their first baseman of the future and we don't need Fielder! :rofl:

[Stotle]

Why is a guy who had an ERA+ of 114 at age 23, and 120 at age 24, someone who can be a "servicable #5" at age 25?

Doesn't miss bats. Limited upside, but solid back-end type arm that could flash some mid-rotation years if everything clicks.

I don't understand getting Davis, but maybe O's pro scouting sees some flaws that can be fixed. He's a fringe MLB bat at this point. Hopefully he makes enough contact to provide #6 production moving forward.

[oriole]

Anybody know how many years each player is under control for??

[laxtonto]

I am not a Hunter fan at all... He is a great back of the rotation guy/long reliever but Texas has 5 guys around his age or younger than can do that job. He is a large fella that so far seems to have problems staying healthy. To me this is a sell low deal.

Uji is arguably the best mom-closer that is actually avalaible on the market. This is a haul for a middle of the road of the road RP, not the return of a guy that is near the top of the market... Add to that the O's are sending more that $1M in cash...

[The Rick]

It's going to be interesting to see how Koji does in the Texas sun! I hope he does well though and gets a ring, i'll be rooting for him.

[Snuffles]

Exactly the type of trade to make if you are the Orioles. These are two potential pieces that may end up playing significant roles for the Orioles in the future. Any time you can trade a reliever (especially one whose value will struggle to get any higher) for promise and potential at two different positions - you jump on the trade. The players we are getting in return cannot be judged by their current stats... what matters from here on it is how they pan out in orange and black. Give Davis a chance to play - why not for goodness sake.

It's important this time of year to not trade for the sake of trading. It seems McPhail has waited it out and succeeded.

[Tank]

I agree. Its a good trade for Koji. I didn't expecty much, and MAYBE we didn't get much, but Davis is still young enough that he could become something special. Time will tell.

JTrea...sorry to burst your bubble, but now that Davis is here, the Orioles' front office will say they have their first baseman of the future and we don't need Fielder! :rofl:

Or him and Reimold can split DH next year.

[Stotle]

Anybody know how many years each player is under control for??

Davis is a free agent in 2015.
Hunter is a free agent in 2016.

[JTrea81]

Oh this deal just keeps getting better - we are paying salary for Koji...

http://twitter.com/#!/Evan_P_Grant/status/97418541019578368

[OrioleMagic]

This is a great deal!

[crissfan172]

I agree. Its a good trade for Koji. I didn't expecty much, and MAYBE we didn't get much, but Davis is still young enough that he could become something special. Time will tell.

JTrea...sorry to burst your bubble, but now that Davis is here, the Orioles' front office will say they have their first baseman of the future and we don't need Fielder! :rofl:

Davis' defense is bad enough that they could DH him. ;)

[BaltimoreTerp]

I like the deal, especially Hunter. He looks to me like he could be a similar pitcher to Guthrie: low walks, low strikeouts, a bit prone to the homer, but will give you six innings a start and do well.

[SilentJames]

This is a great trade. Davis needs some work but he obviously has talent and he fills a need. Hunter pitched very very well the last two years before a groin injury. This could work out very well for the Orioles.

[PrivateO]

Rangers also expected to get "significant" salary relief for Uehara (Oooh-harra), whose option for 2012 is close to vesting.

http://twitter.com/#!/Evan_P_Grant/status/97418541019578368

EDIT: JTrea beat me to it.

[The Rick]

Hunter Strained his groin, last year he was MORE than solid for the Rangers. He gets healthy this is a great trade.

Not only that, but Hunter is a big dude. I'd say he'd benefit getting out of the Texas heat, but has it been any better here this summer?

Edit: 5.37 ERA away vs. 3.70 ERA at home looking at his 3 year splits. Oh well.

[sangar]

It's more than we got for Sherrill but still....they both look like projects with question marks.

[Dipper9]

Davis' defense is bad enough that they could DH him. ;)

Great! Maybe he's more like Reynolds than I initially thought! :(

[MrOrange82]

Doesn't miss bats. Limited upside, but solid back-end type arm that could flash some mid-rotation years if everything clicks.

I don't understand getting Davis, but maybe O's pro scouting sees some flaws that can be fixed. He's a fringe MLB bat at this point. Hopefully he makes enough contact to provide #6 production moving forward.

What do you think accounts for the huge divide between Davis' MiL and ML numbers at this point? Seems odd that he could hit .330+ at AA-AAA, but hasn't gotten over .250 since his 1/2 season debut in 2008.

[stringer.bell]

Mark Reynolds AND Chris Davis? Yikes.

[Tank]

It's more than we got for Sherrill but still....they both look like projects with question marks.

What do you really expect from a 36 year old reliever with injury concerns?

Actually I thought we'd do a little better but I don't think its terrible by any means.

[Stotle]

I'm nonplussed by the haul, but trust in your pro scouts and hopefully they lead you to guys that pan out.

[JTrea81]

This is a great trade. Davis needs some work but he obviously has talent and he fills a need. Hunter pitched very very well the last two years before a groin injury. This could work out very well for the Orioles.

Davis may have talent, but he broke into the majors 3 years ago and is dangerously close to being a AAAA guy.

He could wind up being a decent player off the bench though.

Hunter is just a #4-#5 starter.

I've got to think somebody would have offered more.

[Babypowder]

What's flawed about Hunter?

A 25 year old who put up ERA+ of 114 at age 23 and 120 at age 24 as a starter in a hitter's park, and has been hurt this year.

His minor league resume is unimpressive. Despite decent ERAs in 2009 and 2010, he strikes out about 5 per 9, and put up xFIPs of 4.72 and 4.51. He has flaws, and his ceiling is not high. He is likely a backend starter at best. I don't think I need to explain why Chris Davis is flawed and not really a "prospect" we should be targeting.

[PrivateO]

FWIW (not much), a lot of the MLBTR comments are saying we got a nice haul back.

[JTrea81]

Mark Reynolds AND Chris Davis? Yikes.

They are currently enlarging the ribbon board on the OPACY scoreboard to display all the "Ks"

[Dipper9]

Davis may have talent, but he broke into the majors 3 years ago and is dangerously close to being a AAAA guy.

He could wind up being a decent player off the bench though.

Hunter is just a #4-#5 starter.

I've got to think somebody would have offered more.

For a 36 year old reliever who has had injury issues? Come on Trea. Koji is on fire right now, but in his three years here he hs had his share of troubles.

[AgentOrange]

FWIW (not much), a lot of the MLBTR comments are saying we got a nice haul back.

I don't think we need to hear comments from MLBTR to know we got a pretty nice haul back for Koji

[The Rick]

Davis may have talent, but he broke into the majors 3 years ago and is dangerously close to being a AAAA guy.

He could wind up being a decent player off the bench though.

Hunter is just a #4-#5 starter.

I've got to think somebody would have offered more.

I've got to think that based on AM's track record, if that were the case we would have gotten more. Come on man, you have to give him that.

A #4/5 starter in the AL East is pretty valuable, IMO. Especially for a 36 year old reliever, who has had his own injury issues in the past.

[PrivateO]

For a 36 year old reliever who has had injury issues? Come on Trea. Koji is on fire right now, but in his three years here he hs had his share of troubles.

First year in his MLB career that he hasn't spent time on the DL.

[nate22]

Not only that, but Hunter is a big dude. I'd say he'd benefit getting out of the Texas heat, but has it been any better here this summer?

Edit: 5.37 ERA away vs. 3.70 ERA at home looking at his 3 year splits. Oh well.

Yeah, he reminds me of Jonathan Broxton.

[GoGoPower]

Awful, awful trade for the Orioles. Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter? We have been crimed on.

I think this pretty much confirms that this organization just plans on treading water for the forseeable future...

[Dipper9]

I don't think we need to hear comments from MLBTR to know we got a pretty nice haul back for Koji

Right now, I am satisfied with this trade, but I am waiting for SG to tell me how I really feel! :D

[PrivateO]

I don't think we need to hear comments from MLBTR to know we got a pretty nice haul back for Koji

Hey, I don't either. I'm just giving other teams' fans' perspectives.

[MikeAD]

I am thrilled that we got Davis, that is great.

[AgentOrange]

Davis may have talent, but he broke into the majors 3 years ago and is dangerously close to being a AAAA guy.

He could wind up being a decent player off the bench though.

Hunter is just a #4-#5 starter.

I've got to think somebody would have offered more.

Not too much more if anything. I think its a great trade for a RP who is not going to serve as closer. If Koji was a closer, and was getting traded to be a closer, it would be a bigger return.

[SrMeowMeow]

This is a pretty hot trade. We're taking on a lot of risk but a lot of upside.

[Stotle]

What do you think accounts for the huge divide between Davis' MiL and ML numbers at this point? Seems odd that he could hit .330+ at AA-AAA, but hasn't gotten over .250 since his 1/2 season debut in 2008.

Has big trouble with off-speed pitches and a long swing. Not too dissimilar from Shelley Duncan. ML pitchers are carving him up at this point. Hopefully he makes some adjustments, tightens things up some and gets his contact rate up to the point where his power can provide positive offensive value.

Honestly, I would have been happy with one of Hunter/Davis and a younger kid, but getting both seems "meh" for a very good relief arm. At the same time, if you get a solid #4 starter and a #6 hitter on the cheap, maybe that opens you up to make a bigger splash somewhere else.

With so much talent in that Rangers system, I'm surprised BAL didn't pry one higher upside kid from them.

[alaniee]

Sad. Koji is one of our best players. We get two minor leaguers for him. Oh well, tis the life of an O's fan.

[BaysoxFan39]

Ah...you beat me! I'll go delete my thread.


Not sure this makes sense for the Rangers. He has struggled pitching in that heat in the past.

Poor Koji. He is going to fry like a fish in a pan of hot grease in Arlington. :laughlol:

[nevadaO]

Poor Koji. He is going to fry like a fish in a pan of hot grease in Arlington. :laughlol:

Stir Fry Koji!

Really though, it's going to be brutal there soon.

[Stotle]

Yeah, he reminds me of Jonathan Broxton minus five mph.

I agree.

[The Rick]

Right now, I am satisfied with this trade, but I am waiting for SG to tell me how I really feel! :D

Haha, well I know he'll allude to Hunter's lack of K's, as well as Davis's poor OBP/K #'s, but given we got this in return for a 36 year old oft-injured reliever, I don't see him hating on it. As others have said, it's low-risk, high-reward. I'd be shocked if Hunter didn't become a valuable starter for us though.

[JTrea81]

Has big trouble with off-speed pitches and a long swing. Not too dissimilar from Shelley Duncan. ML pitchers are carving him up at this point. Hopefully he makes some adjustments, tightens things up some and gets his contact rate up to the point where his power can provide positive offensive value.

Honestly, I would have been happy with one of Hunter/Davis and a younger kid, but getting both seems "meh" for a very good relief arm. At the same time, if you get a solid #4 starter and a #6 hitter on the cheap, maybe that opens you up to make a bigger splash somewhere else.

With so much talent in that Rangers system, I'm surprised BAL didn't pry one higher upside kid from them.

Bingo. The DBacks gave up a good SS prospect for the likes of Jason Marquis.

I'm wondering if this was a quantity vs. quality type of deal.

[nate22]

The Rangers have another Japanese pitcher in their pen, that should help Koji pitching in Texas.

[crissfan172]

They took Lee out of game 1 "to rest for game 2".

Now he's not in the lineup.


I'm think he's gone.

[nate22]

I agree.

I was just going by appearance. I should have been more specific.

[JTrea81]

The part that really stinks is the $2 million we have to give up. I'm not sure that this haul is worth paying money for.

[Dipper9]

They took Lee out of game 1 "to rest for game 2".

Now he's not in the lineup.


I'm think he's gone.

Damn...might be a good pre-game show tonight at 6:30 huh?

[Burg]

Bingo. The DBacks gave up a good SS prospect for the likes of Jason Marquis.

I'm wondering if this was a quantity vs. quality type of deal.

Come on Trea - Koji is 36, has serious injury issues, and admittedly struggles in the heat. The fact that we got two guys who COULD be something is far from a bad trade.

[LookitsPuck]

Bingo. The DBacks gave up a good SS prospect for the likes of Jason Marquis.

I'm wondering if this was a quantity vs. quality type of deal.

Jason Marquis isva starter. Good grief.

[laxtonto]

People are looking hard at Davis video game numbers and not the scouting reports.. As far as Hunter...


keithlaw keithlaw
They didn't. "@mustard_seeds: Why would Rangers give up a decent SP?//o's confirms Uehara to Rangers for Davis, Hunter."

[Stotle]

Bingo. The DBacks gave up a good SS prospect for the likes of Jason Marquis.

I'm wondering if this was a quantity vs. quality type of deal.

Seems to me Baltimore is looking to catch lightning in a bottle with Davis. I do wonder what shakes down with Bell/Reynolds/Davis as far as planning for 2012.

Hunter is a fine get. He is what he is. To be honest, I'd hope Baltimore has four better arms starting ahead of him in 2012, but he's not a bad guy to have on your 25-man.

Broken Record: I think either is a fine inclusion in the deal, I just wish there was something with a little higher upside here. Even if it's someone like Jordan Akins (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=akins-001jor).

[carolinaoriole]

I think this is a good solid haul for Koji!!. Chris Davis will get a chance to show what he can do. I think Tommy Hunter could be a 'Nugget" as well. The object of trading a player is to come away as a better team. I think the Orioles did that here. Koji was doing a great job. But we needed 2 players like Hunter and Davis.

[MikeAD]

Seems to me Baltimore is looking to catch lightning in a bottle with Davis. I do wonder what shakes down with Bell/Reynolds/Davis as far as planning for 2012.

Hunter is a fine get. He is what he is. To be honest, I'd hope Baltimore has four better arms starting ahead of him in 2012, but he's not a bad guy to have on your 25-man.

Broken Record: I think either is a fine inclusion in the deal, I just wish there was something with a little higher upside here. Even if it's someone like Jordan Akins (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=akins-001jor).

Theres a ton that can happen. You could have your 1b/3B/DH rotation right there if it all works out. Or you can have a great 4 way between the three spots if you add Reimold (granted it all pans out).

[OrioleMagic]

Awful, awful trade for the Orioles. Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter? We have been crimed on.

I think this pretty much confirms that this organization just plans on treading water for the forseeable future...

What on earth did you think we could get for Uehara?

[BaysoxFan39]

What's flawed about Hunter?

A 25 year old who put up ERA+ of 114 at age 23 and 120 at age 24 as a starter in a hitter's park, and has been hurt this year.

He also has PO and WS experiance which no one on the Orioles have except coaches.

[nate22]

This deal falls in line with a non-full rebuild movement. It makes me wonder what types of players we're asking for Guthrie and Lee. I'm guessing major leaguers or major league ready as opposed to prospects.

[Stotle]

Theres a ton that can happen. You could have your 1b/3B/DH rotation right there if it all works out. Or you can have a great 4 way between the three spots if you add Reimold (granted it all pans out).

I just see a no glove #6 hitter in Reynolds and two guys with big questions. I am still high on Reimold and think he could ultimately develop into that #4/#5 bat for Baltimore. Would be terrific if Davis made some adjustments and could step in as a #5 next year, though I'm dubious.

[MikeAD]

I just see a no glove #6 hitter in Reynolds and two guys with big questions. I am still high on Reimold and think he could ultimately develop into that #4/#5 bat for Baltimore. Would be terrific if Davis made some adjustments and could step in as a #5 next year, though I'm dubious.

Oh no doubt, but thats the deal. At least now we have a few options rather than one guy that either has to hit or miss and if he misses we are screwed.

[MrOrange82]

Has big trouble with off-speed pitches and a long swing. Not too dissimilar from Shelley Duncan. ML pitchers are carving him up at this point. Hopefully he makes some adjustments, tightens things up some and gets his contact rate up to the point where his power can provide positive offensive value.

Honestly, I would have been happy with one of Hunter/Davis and a younger kid, but getting both seems "meh" for a very good relief arm. At the same time, if you get a solid #4 starter and a #6 hitter on the cheap, maybe that opens you up to make a bigger splash somewhere else.

With so much talent in that Rangers system, I'm surprised BAL didn't pry one higher upside kid from them.

Interesting comparison, but Duncan never put up anything close to Davis' numbers in the minors (at the same ages), particularly BA-wise (though really, Davis' numbers are well over Duncan's across the board).

I guess that's what prompted the question. I could see how a guy who hits .275ish with tons of K's and HRs might have trouble posting a decent BA in the big leagues, but Davis' career MiL BA is .317, and he's been .327 or better for the last four years (including this one). I mean...of course he's not seeing ML breaking stuff in AAA, but the disconnect between his MiL and ML numbers is just...so huge...

I don't get it. I appreciate the analysis, though. Maybe this is just one of those things I can't grasp without being in the business.

[lint06]

Interesting comparison, but Duncan never put up anything close to Davis' numbers in the minors (at the same ages), particularly BA-wise (though really, Davis' numbers are well over Duncan's across the board).

I guess that's what prompted the question. I could see how a guy who hits .275ish with tons of K's and HRs might have trouble posting a decent BA in the big leagues, but Davis' career MiL BA is .317, and he's been .327 or better for the last four years (including this one). I mean...of course he's not seeing ML breaking stuff in AAA, but the disconnect between his MiL and ML numbers is just...so huge...

I don't get it. I appreciate the analysis, though. Maybe this is just one of those things I can't grasp without being in the business.

Matt Wieters says "Hello."

[RVAbird]

This is not the direction I would have pursued in return for Koji. I think it's a fine fair value deal. A couple of potentially useful and cheap pieces. But, I guess, where is the long-term strategy?

Just curious because I haven't followed his progress: 5 of Hunter's 9 rehab appearances were starts. Is he capable of stepping into a rotation right now? Or is that something they'll have to build toward in the offseason.

[laxtonto]

The Rangers snagged perhaps the most underrated arm on the market in Uehara, a command-and-control right-hander who exemplifies those attributes so well he gets strikeouts on top of them. His 62-to-8 K-to-BB ratio in 47 1/3 innings is the best in the major leagues, and to get him for this year and next it cost Texas a bust-with-upside in Davis (who’s slugging .824 at Triple-A) and Hunter (who found himself the rotation’s odd man out after going 13-4 and starting a World Series game last year) Passan



Lets just say I think the O's could have gotten much more...

[MrOrange82]

Matt Wieters says "Hello."

Matt Wieters only spent two years in the minors, but good call. I tend to view him differently because of the position he plays. That's probably somewhat unwarranted.

[Skeletor]

If anyone can take players who are tearing up the minor leagues and turn them into major league studs, it's the Os.

Neither of these guys are potential HoFers but they bring something to the table. It's a good haul for Koji.

[Sports Guy]

Agree with Stotle. You would figure that you get one of their several young prospects along with the major league arm. I guess this is ok but calling this a GREAT trade is bs.

[JTrea81]

If anyone can take players who are tearing up the minor leagues and turn them into major league studs, it's the Os.

Are you kidding?

[Stotle]

Interesting comparison, but Duncan never put up anything close to Davis' numbers in the minors (at the same ages), particularly BA-wise (though really, Davis' numbers are well over Duncan's across the board).

I guess that's what prompted the question. I could see how a guy who hits .275ish with tons of K's and HRs might have trouble posting a decent BA in the big leagues, but Davis' career MiL BA is .317, and he's been .327 or better for the last four years (including this one). I mean...of course he's not seeing ML breaking stuff in AAA, but the disconnect between his MiL and ML numbers is just...so huge...

I don't get it. I appreciate the analysis, though. Maybe this is just one of those things I can't grasp without being in the business.

I think Davis is better than Duncan, but ultimately the flaws are the same. PCL also a better hitters league, though not 50 BA points better. Davis is a legit hitter, but he hasn't figured out how to lay off off-speed and how to not expand his zone against ML pitching. If he figures that out, this would be a steal. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Sports Guy]

I bet if another reliever was traded for this package and people came on here saying that they wish the Orioles made this trade that many posters would think this is a mediocre haul.

[JTrea81]

I bet if another reliever was traded for this package and people came on here saying that they wish the Orioles made this trade that many posters would think this is a mediocre haul.

Yep.

Not to mention they had to pay $2 million for it.

[MrOrange82]

I think Davis is better than Duncan, but ultimately the flaws are the same. PCL also a better hitters league, though not 50 BA points better. Davis is a legit hitter, but he hasn't figured out how to lay off off-speed and how to not expand his zone against ML pitching. If he figures that out, this would be a steal. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Well, under the unparalleled tutelage of the Orioles' hitting staff, I'm sure Davis will hone his game and become an outstanding, late inning set-up man.

[Jimbo81]

He also has PO and WS experiance which no one on the Orioles have except coaches.

This is why I love that we got Hunter. Not that we will nature the PO anyone soon.

[SilentJames]

I bet if another reliever was traded for this package and people came on here saying that they wish the Orioles made this trade that many posters would think this is a mediocre haul.

And a bunch of others would be saying that it is just the type of trade the Orioles SHOULD make.

Its a fine haul.

[jabba72]

Haha, well I know he'll allude to Hunter's lack of K's, as well as Davis's poor OBP/K #'s, but given we got this in return for a 36 year old oft-injured reliever, I don't see him hating on it. As others have said, it's low-risk, high-reward. I'd be shocked if Hunter didn't become a valuable starter for us though.

Hunters career high innings at all levels is 128. Il'l be shocked if he became a valuable starter for us. Spot starter I guess, but those arent too valuable.

[thiscat41]

Awesome trade! Great job, Andy!!

[Snutchy]

Are you kidding?

I want what he's on. I can think of.. Jones? Yeah, that's about it. And Wieters.. But it's taken him a while to come around. Markakis, but that's forever ago.

[allstar1579]

I bet if another reliever was traded for this package and people came on here saying that they wish the Orioles made this trade that many posters would think this is a mediocre haul.

I think it was a GREAT deal personally. Change of scenery should do Davis wonders, and I was a big fan of Hunter in the minors.

[BaysoxFan39]

Exactly the type of trade to make if you are the Orioles. These are two potential pieces that may end up playing significant roles for the Orioles in the future. Any time you can trade a reliever (especially one whose value will struggle to get any higher) for promise and potential at two different positions - you jump on the trade. The players we are getting in return cannot be judged by their current stats... what matters from here on it is how they pan out in orange and black. Give Davis a chance to play - why not for goodness sake.

It's important this time of year to not trade for the sake of trading. It seems McPhail has waited it out and succeeded.

Now it is the hands of our coaches and player develoment folks. The track record has not been good so far with young players development. Let's hope the trend does not continue.

[SrMeowMeow]

We'll never know who was really available. Would I have liked to get more? Sure. But there is plenty of upside between Davis and Hunter. I like the deal.

[Sports Guy]

We'll never know who was really available. Would I have liked to get more? Sure. But there is plenty of upside between Davis and Hunter. I like the deal.The deal is fine..but its not great. Upside is there at least.

[allstar1579]

The deal is fine..but its not great. Upside is there at least.

I just really like it in the context that Koji was pretty terrible last year, he had a great year this year and got us two players that could hit or miss, but for a RP not in our long term plans, and off of payroll next year, I'm good with it.

[Hallas]

I bet if another reliever was traded for this package and people came on here saying that they wish the Orioles made this trade that many posters would think this is a mediocre haul.

I remember posting that the O's needed to be less concerned with getting home runs in trades and more concerned with getting acceptable value. This trade is a solid double, and while we need more of them, it's. Good start.

[Hank Scorpio]

Yep.

Not to mention they had to pay $2 million for it.

You're just bitter because yer boy's off the table.

[Peace21]

I'm wondering what Texas is thinking? Uehara hates pitching in hot and humid weather.

[Austin]

I admit I haven't followed Davis closely since his big debut but his stats this year at AAA are absolutely ridiculous. I understand the PCL is a hitters league but he's hit 24 homers in 48 games with a 1.229 OPS. Hopefully he can figure out his problems against ML pitching.

[Peace21]

Lets see what else the O's get before the deadline is up.

[Stotle]

I think it was a GREAT deal personally. Change of scenery should do Davis wonders, and I was a big fan of Hunter in the minors.

I'm going to pull up this post when we see Baltimore spend another $5-$7 million per year, over 2 years, in free agency on a relief arm. :)

[Skeletor]

I'm going to pull up this post when we see Baltimore spend another $5-$7 million per year, over 2 years, in free agency on a relief arm. :)

And a 2nd round pick.

[Burg]

I bet if another reliever was traded for this package and people came on here saying that they wish the Orioles made this trade that many posters would think this is a mediocre haul.

And if we turned it down and didn't move Koji - there'd be a ton of people *****ing that we should have taken the deal.

[Remember The Alomar]

Enh. As others have said, I think we got solid value. It's just depressing because this isn't the kind of deal a team like the Orioles should be making. I agree with those that say this is a Showalter driven move.

[Greg Pappas]

Though I would've preferred a young starter, like Erlin or Wieland, to have been part of the deal, I'm hopeful that at least one of the two we got back pan out and become solid/good players. Off the top of my head, I'd give this trade roughly a B-/C+. Hopefully we're not done.

[Frobby]

Come on Trea - Koji is 36, has serious injury issues, and admittedly struggles in the heat. The fact that we got two guys who COULD be something is far from a bad trade.

As a reliever, it's pretty hard to say he has struggled in the heat. Check out how he's done this summer and last. His struggles in the heat as a starter are pretty irrelevant.

[SteveA]

I'm going to pull up this post when we see Baltimore spend another $5-$7 million per year, over 2 years, in free agency on a relief arm. :)

We can only hope they have learned the lesson there. The fact that something like 7 of our top 15 draft choices were pitchers who projected to be "back of the rotation or relievers" by most experts leads me to believe that the light bulb may finally have gone on, and that we are going to try to continue to do what worked with David Hernandez and Berken, and from now on develop most of our bullpen from our system from the guys who can't cut it as starters due to not having enough pitches, durability, etc.

Hey, I can dream, can't I?

[Burg]

As a reliever, it's pretty hard to say he has struggled in the heat. Check out how he's done this summer and last. His struggles in the heat as a starter are pretty irrelevant.

Ok fine. He's still 36 and far from durable.

[JTrea81]

You're just bitter because yer boy's off the table.

I was a Davis fan a couple of years ago like when the Orioles were not contending. He would have been a perfect fit and the Orioles could have given him a full season to see what he had.

If he does terrible as a starter, I'd expect the Orioles to still land Fielder in the offseason if they want to win next season.

Davis could still be a solid player off the bench.

Hunter I think is the key component of the deal though. If he can be a decent #3-#4 starter, the O's can use that money to sign a player like Fielder instead of going after a mid-rotation arm.

[ccbird]

Kills me to agree with Trea but I do. Not a lot of upside here. I guess you argue that Davis still has potential but IMO he likely ends up a AAAA guy. Hunter is likely to be at the back of the rotation for a few years. There is no doubt in my mind that Koji had enough value to get us a lower level higher upside propect.

[Cakes2Kakes]

A couple of things I'm hearing from Texas chatter. They seem to think that Davis was pretty good defensively, and they attribute a lot of his problems to getting sat down whenever he slumped a little.

They said a lot of good things about Hunter as well, saying his recent struggles were due to recovering from his injury, and that he is back to topping 95 on the radar gun.

I think Hunter could very well be our new Guthrie type surprise pickup, and that a Guthrie deal may be in the works.

[allstar1579]

I'm going to pull up this post when we see Baltimore spend another $5-$7 million per year, over 2 years, in free agency on a relief arm. :)

Yes, then you know I would be sulking, but I was hoping the trickle down effect of adding Hunter means that RP arm would be an internal add. I guess I should add that as an asterisk to how much I like the deal. If they go out and sign another aging overpriced RP instead of investing internationally I might have to jump off of something very tall.

[SteveO]

I think Andy has been a horrible GM but am gonna give kudos to him on this trade. For a 36 y.o reliever who has zero chance of being part of the team when the Orioles are finally competitive Andy managed to get a guy who can be a competent #4 starter and in Davis a guy who at worst provides you some depth at 1B/DH has some pop in his bat and some upside to him. Both these guys are young enough to be part of a rebuilding project but also contribute immediately ....thats pretty darn good haul for Koji...

[The Rick]

Hunters career high innings at all levels is 128. Il'l be shocked if he became a valuable starter for us. Spot starter I guess, but those arent too valuable.

I hear you on this, I'm concerned here too, but I guess I'm just hoping he can get and stay healthy for a few years. I guess we'll see.

[baltfan]

For those saying Davis is a bad defender, that is the opposite of his reputation. See below.

Smoak was the team’s everyday first baseman at the time, which made the Rangers even more reluctant to part with him. But they sounded confident about the young left-handed hitter who was next in line, Chris Davis.

Davis is regarded as an excellent defender. But he didn’t hit. He batted just .189 over his next 15 games. So the Rangers dipped back into their farm system once more.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Rangers-have-their-own-unexpected-hero-in-rookie-Mitch-Moreland-103010

[sdmarkakis]

I just really like it in the context that Koji was pretty terrible last year, he had a great year this year and got us two players that could hit or miss, but for a RP not in our long term plans, and off of payroll next year, I'm good with it.

lol? Koji was terrible last year? 2.86era, 55:5 k/bb, .95 whip? Wut?

[e16bball]

I just really like it in the context that Koji was pretty terrible last year, he had a great year this year and got us two players that could hit or miss, but for a RP not in our long term plans, and off of payroll next year, I'm good with it.

In what world was Koji "pretty terrible" last year?

[BaysoxFan39]

Hunter and Dempsey putting the huge organizational "spin" on the Koji trade. Listening to them you would think we just picked up Bob Gibson and Frank Robinson for an old man with a broken leg. Hail Andy McPhail!! Hail Andy McPhail!! :rofl:

[MrOrange82]

Hunter and Dempsey putting the huge organizational "spin" on the Koji trade. Listening to them you would think we just picked up Bob Gibson and Frank Robinson for an old man with a broken leg. Hail Andy McPhail!! Hail Andy McPhail!! :rofl:

All it'd take from Dempsey is a wink to take him from metaphorically salivating to literally preparing a candlelit dinner for himself and Mr. Davis.

[Frobby]

I just really like it in the context that Koji was pretty terrible last year, he had a great year this year and got us two players that could hit or miss, but for a RP not in our long term plans, and off of payroll next year, I'm good with it.

What are your standards for "terrible?" Koji had a 2.86 ERA last year and a WHIP of 0.96. The only negative thing you can say about Koji is that he missed about 60 games with injuries -- but none in the second half of the season, and none this year.

Koji is a fantastic relief pitcher, and one of the most enjoyable pitchers to watch I have ever seen. I will miss him terribly.

Now, that said, Chris Davis is a solid 25-year old reclamation project, and Tommy Hunter is a 24-year old starting pitcher who may help us. Both these guys fill needs that we have. Hunter's under team control for 4 seasons after this one, Davis for 3 years. Seems like a reasonable return for Koji.

[PrivateO]

I was a Davis fan a couple of years ago like when the Orioles were not contending. He would have been a perfect fit and the Orioles could have given him a full season to see what he had.

If he does terrible as a starter, I'd expect the Orioles to still land Fielder in the offseason if they want to win next season.

Davis could still be a solid player off the bench.

Hunter I think is the key component of the deal though. If he can be a decent #3-#4 starter, the O's can use that money to sign a player like Fielder instead of going after a mid-rotation arm.

Despite what you think, we're still not contending.

As an aside, it's pretty interesting that some people are saying Davis is the key to this trade, while others are saying Hunter is.

[The Rick]

Despite what you think, we're still not contending.

As an aside, it's pretty interesting that some people are saying Davis is the key to this trade, while others are saying Hunter is.

They both have great upside and great risk. That said, I'm more intrigued by Hunter personally. I think if he can get himself healthy for a while that he could be a very solid starter for us.

[weams]

Despite what you think, we're still not contending.

As an aside, it's pretty interesting that some people are saying Davis is the key to this trade, while others are saying Hunter is.

And we are still not signing Prince Fielder.

[PrivateO]

Britt Ghiroli on MASN2 now talking about the trade.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Hunters career high innings at all levels is 128. Il'l be shocked if he became a valuable starter for us. Spot starter I guess, but those arent too valuable.

That's a very poor way to look at it.

Total innings:

2007 (drafted) - 17.2
2008 - 174
2009 - 183
2010 - 154 2/3
2011 - 46

[SrMeowMeow]

If Hunter could be a 4.50 ERA, 180 IP guy for us, that alone would make the trade a win. And I think it's definitely possible.

[Can_of_corn]

We can only hope they have learned the lesson there. The fact that something like 7 of our top 15 draft choices were pitchers who projected to be "back of the rotation or relievers" by most experts leads me to believe that the light bulb may finally have gone on, and that we are going to try to continue to do what worked with David Hernandez and Berken, and from now on develop most of our bullpen from our system from the guys who can't cut it as starters due to not having enough pitches, durability, etc.

Hey, I can dream, can't I?

I would be shocked if they still want to turn Klein into a starter after he (hopefully) recovers from his injury.

[baltfan]

How many guys that can't be at least back end starters start their careers 23-13? I know wins aren't the best way to measure a pitcher, but you usually have to be at least decent to have that type of record.

[BaltimoreTerp]

How many guys that can't be at least back end starters start their careers 23-13? I know wins aren't the best way to measure a pitcher, but you usually have to be at least decent to have that type of record.

That's true, as long as you take into account that he got over five runs a game in support from the Rangers, where here he'll get at least a full run less right now.

[Crazysilver03]

He also has PO and WS experiance which no one on the Orioles have except coaches.

Don't forget Mark Reynolds (2007 Arizona), Derrek Lee (2003 Florida, 2007 Cubs, 2010 Atlanta), Cesar Izturis (2004 Los Angeles), JJ Hardy (2008 Milwaukee, 2010 Minnesota), Luke Scott (2005 Houston), Vlad (2004-2010 minus 2006), Felix Pie (2007-2008 Cubs), Clay Rapada (2010 Rangers), and Kevin Gregg (2004-2005 Angels). They all have playoff experience. Lee, Vlad, and Rapada all have WS experience.

[baltfan]

That's true, as long as you take into account that he got over five runs a game in support from the Rangers, where here he'll get at least a full run less right now.

You make a good point and the one that I can think of is Rick Helling. Still some cause for hope

[ccbird]

Britt Ghiroli on MASN2 now talking about the trade.

Not to take this off topic but how hot is she?? The standard press twitter pic are fairly blah but I heard she looked a lot better in person.

[PrivateO]

Not to take this off topic but how hot is she?? The standard press twitter pic are fairly blah but I heard she looked a lot better in person.

She looked better on MASN than on her Twitter photo.

[BaysoxFan39]

Does Hunters delivery and body angles remind you of former Orioles prospect David Hernandez?

[allstar1579]

In what world was Koji "pretty terrible" last year?

Well in fairness I was thinking 2009, but that's almost as bad that I barely noticed him last year. A RP pitching 44 IP out of roughly 1450IP for the season really means nothing in the big picture. Especially when it's for a team in the bottom 5 of all of baseball. We could have Steve Johnson, or Bergy, or Tillman, or whoever pitch 44 IP and I promise you the difference between that and Koji won't be as important as having Davis, Hunter and $2m for the next 3-4 seasons.

[BaysoxFan39]

Don't forget Mark Reynolds (2007 Arizona), Derrek Lee (2003 Florida, 2007 Cubs, 2010 Atlanta), Cesar Izturis (2004 Los Angeles), JJ Hardy (2008 Milwaukee, 2010 Minnesota), Luke Scott (2005 Houston), Vlad (2004-2010 minus 2006), Felix Pie (2007-2008 Cubs), Clay Rapada (2010 Rangers), and Kevin Gregg (2004-2005 Angels). They all have playoff experience. Lee, Vlad, and Rapada all have WS experience.

Yep. I forgot. Actually I forgot quite a bit. :)

[jabba72]

That's a very poor way to look at it.

Total innings:

2007 (drafted) - 17.2
2008 - 174
2009 - 183
2010 - 154 2/3
2011 - 46


Your right. I realized that mistake and never corrected it. I would happily take 183 innings at this point. Im skeptical he can be a reliable starter for us though.

[RZNJ]

Just the usual OH bs! We trade a guy who's signed for one more year, and whose elbow could blow out at any second for a young starter and a young power hitting 1B that everyone on here was crazy about the last two years. JTrea says we should have traded for Davis two years ago. Yeah, when his value was higher, right. Did I miss two great ML seasons from Davis somewhere? Davis was the minor league with huge upside. Everyone wanted him. The upside is still there but now that he's actually been humanized by ML pitching, everyone's off the bandwagon. Hunter is a young ML pitcher who can start. We traded a fragile relief pitcher with one year left for two guys with value. Davis could be nothing but the potential is there. You can't get a guy like him for Uehara unless he's been tarnished a bit by the majors. I think AM did the best he could. I think Koji will be excellent for the Rangers IF he can stay healthy. I think we did the best we could.

[JayThomas]

This is not the direction I would have pursued in return for Koji. I think it's a fine fair value deal. A couple of potentially useful and cheap pieces. But, I guess, where is the long-term strategy?

.
Yes, this seems to be the crux. It's not that the return is bad, it's just that we're so far from competitive that this isn't the return that we should be looking for. We should be looking for the highest upside talent that we can acquire, no matter how far from the majors. There's no way that we are going to rebuild this trainwreck into a competitive team for next year, so why apply bandaid fixes?

[wildcard]

I see Koji for Hunter as a good deal for the O's. Trading a reliever for a starter is normally a good deal. And trading a 36 year old for a 25 year old is the kind of trade the O's need to make.

I see the acquisition of Davis as a money saver for the O's. It allows the O's to trade Lee to Pittsburgh and save $4M. I think the odds are against Davis being a long term solution because the has over 800 at bats with a OBP that is around 300 and sinking.

The 2M that the O's sent with Koji is to offset his $4M salary next year IMO. The Rangers are at risk that Koji will be able to perform in the Texas heat.

[Orioles_Magic]

Hunters career high innings at all levels is 128. Il'l be shocked if he became a valuable starter for us. Spot starter I guess, but those arent too valuable.


That's his major league high.


08, minors & majors combined: 174.2 INN
09, minors & majors combined: 183 INN
10, minors & majors combined: 154.2 INN


http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hunteto02.shtml

[OFFNY]

.
Wouldn't it be something if the Rangers played either the Yankees or the Red Sox in the ALCS and Koji jams it down their throats ?

[glorydays]

Wonder how involved Buck has been on these moves. My guess is that he has given AM his blessings... Otherwise they would not have happened.

[My O's Face]

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal

Scout: "I would not have given either Davis or Hunter straight up for Uehara." Davis has power, Hunter won 12 last year.

Funny.

[bej6789]

Love the trade. When you're 18 games under .500 -- the reason you probably aren't getting hauls like the ones we hope for is because the players we have just aren't good. Are there holes in Davis's game? Yes. Is Hunter a top end of the rotation starter? No. Is Koji Uehara 36? Yes. Most of us feel that the Orioles are at least a few seasons away from contending. If you want to mention a guy that sure as heck won't be around to see it -- it's Koji. It's not a jumping up and down type deal, but it's likely the best of what was out there. The Orioles could do alot worse than Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter. Alot.

[mark_beckens]

Just the usual OH bs! We trade a guy who's signed for one more year, and whose elbow could blow out at any second for a young starter and a young power hitting 1B that everyone on here was crazy about the last two years. JTrea says we should have traded for Davis two years ago. Yeah, when his value was higher, right. Did I miss two great ML seasons from Davis somewhere? Davis was the minor league with huge upside. Everyone wanted him. The upside is still there but now that he's actually been humanized by ML pitching, everyone's off the bandwagon. Hunter is a young ML pitcher who can start. We traded a fragile relief pitcher with one year left for two guys with value. Davis could be nothing but the potential is there. You can't get a guy like him for Uehara unless he's been tarnished a bit by the majors. I think AM did the best he could. I think Koji will be excellent for the Rangers IF he can stay healthy. I think we did the best we could.

I remember reading several posts from JTrea the last couple years about how we should be trading for Davis, now that we got him, he's not happy. Typical!! AM is damned if he does, damned if he don't. Some people are just never happy!

[JTrea81]

I remember reading several posts from JTrea the last couple years about how we should be trading for Davis, now that we got him, he's not happy. Typical!! AM is damned if he does, damned if he don't. Some people are just never happy!

There's your key.

Two years ago, yeah Davis would have been a great acquistion. Now he's an OK acquisition and the Orioles have the rest of the season to find out what they have, but let's not think he's going to be the solution. I think he's got a chance to be a solid bench player though - better than Bell or Snyder.

As I've said, this deal is more for Hunter. Adair is familiar with him and even Daniels mentioned that the Orioles wanted a back of the rotation arm before he talked about Davis.

By grabbing Hunter, the Orioles don't have to sign a FA starter which allows them to spend more money on hitters.

It's an OK deal, but I think you could have got a better guy from somebody else, but I think the Orioles were looking to get multiple pieces instead of just one after they weren't getting enough to deal Guthrie and found out Koji was their main trade chip.

[Sports Guy]

Agree with Trea, the deal is about Hunter, not Davis. I would guess the Orioles could have gotten a better upside prospect than what they got but they wanted ML players. I think this is a case of them getting a decent package for
what they were looking for but they were looking for the wrong thing.

[RZNJ]

There's your key.

Two years ago, yeah Davis would have been a great acquistion. Now he's an OK acquisition and the Orioles have the rest of the season to find out what they have, but let's not think he's going to be the solution. I think he's got a chance to be a solid bench player though - better than Bell or Snyder.

As I've said, this deal is more for Hunter. Adair is familiar with him and even Daniels mentioned that the Orioles wanted a back of the rotation arm before he talked about Davis.

By grabbing Hunter, the Orioles don't have to sign a FA starter which allows them to spend more money on hitters.

It's an OK deal, but I think you could have got a better guy from somebody else, but I think the Orioles were looking to get multiple pieces instead of just one after they weren't getting enough to deal Guthrie and found out Koji was their main trade chip.


I guess I know what your saying, but Davis hasn't really done anything the last two years so I guess he wouldn't have been such a great acquistion, now would he?

[hoosiers]

This deal is about Hunter and it seems like he is a pretty respectable haul for Koji.

I would have rather plucked a B+ minor leaguer from a strong Texas system, if possible, than take a flyer on Davis. Maybe Davis will mature statistically as he closes in on his peak years.

We'll have to see if Koji nets picks in a few years.

Overall, Koji ends up being a pretty darn good international signing by our FO. Several years of good to great stats and netting a young, legit 4/5 with potential to be a little better.

[JTrea81]

I guess I know what your saying, but Davis hasn't really done anything the last two years so I guess he wouldn't have been such a great acquistion, now would he?

Well he's been yo-yo'd for one. He was passed by Smoak who Texas ultimately traded.

But at the time when our solution was a declining Aubrey Huff/Ty Wigginton in 2009 or Atkins/Wigginton in 2010, yeah Davis was a better option to at least see what he had than running those guys out there everyday.

Now we need to win now as we've committed to doing that and Davis if he's the solution has to provide premium production at that position, and I don't see that happening right now.

I could be wrong, but at the very least I like him as a bench player.

[mcgraw238]

I also agree the deal is about Hunter. Picking up Hunter adds starting pitching inventory to potentially package for an established starter this offseason. I still maintain that a front line starter is still the greatest need of this club and Hunter adds to the inventory to free other pieces to move. The question then is what starters will be available this offseason.

[SrMeowMeow]

I guess I know what your saying, but Davis hasn't really done anything the last two years so I guess he wouldn't have been such a great acquistion, now would he?

Unfortunately, JTrea is right this time (yikes). Davis would have been a good acquisition two years ago because we had no way to know what path his career would take. He had more upside then and was therefore more valuable, even though we now know he wouldn't have fulfilled it.

[SteveA]

.
Yes, this seems to be the crux. It's not that the return is bad, it's just that we're so far from competitive that this isn't the return that we should be looking for. We should be looking for the highest upside talent that we can acquire, no matter how far from the majors. There's no way that we are going to rebuild this trainwreck into a competitive team for next year, so why apply bandaid fixes?

At the start of this year, most people on here thought the team could finish around .500. That hope primarily hinged on the continued development of our young pitchers (Matusz/Britton/Arrietta/Tillman/Bergeson). Pretty much all of them took a step backward.

The question is: is that step backward an indication that they are failed prospects, or just a glitch in their development like hte year Roy Halladay had an ERA over 10 and had to go back to the minors, or the growing pains suffered by eventual star pitchers like Chris Carpenter, Clay Buchholz, etc?

If you really believe those guys are now garbage, like Hayden Penn and Matt Riley, then of course you should favor a complete rebuild. (ALthough it's funny, I don't hear anyone suggesting we trade Matusz or Britton or Tillman).

But I, for one, am not ready to give up on them. It's been a HORRIBLE year for their development, no doubt. I'm no pitching coach, I don't know why Britton is so horrible right now, or why Matusz isn't what he was last year. But I do know that giving up on them would doom us to at least 3 or 4 more years of misery... and I'm not ready to jump off that cliff yet.

IF one of them can develop into a #1 pitcher, and two othes can be of the #3/#4 variety, then with Hunter as a #5, we are one pitcher away from having a competitive rotation. And I don't think we are that far away from being competitive offensively, yes we need at least one more bat, and we need improvement from Wieters. Markakis appears to be slowly regaining his doubles swing, I don't care if he only hits 15 HRs, if he gives us the 40+ doubles he's supposed to every year with his average and his defense, I'm pretty happy.

With the likely addition of a 3rd wild card next year, the path to the playoffs doesn't necessarily HAVE to mean beating out either the Yankees or the Red Sox from now on, either.

I know there are purists on this board that feel you either have to go "all in" with a rebuild, or else you have to go all in to win this year. I don't think it's that black and white. If a deal improves the talent in our organization, at the major or minor league level, and also gets us younger, i.e. it gives us talent we are under control of for a longer period... it's a good deal. Period. We need to stop stupid signings of $8M for 36 year olds or relievers who have a few saves. I hope MacPhail has learned that lesson, finally.

What I look for in a deal is:

1) Does it improve us organizationally, at the major OR minor league level?

2) Does it make us younger or give us control of players for longer than the players we gave up?

3) Can you answer yes to the following quesiton about player(s) we acquire: "Is he likely to have his best year(s) in the majors in an Oriole uniform, or has he already had them elsewhere"?

If the answer to those questions is yes, I like the deal. I don't try to filter it through some lens of "are we rebuilding" or "are we trying to compete" and then decide. A good deal that improves our team, makes us younger, and brings us players who have a good shot of improving rather than being on the downhill side of their career, is a good deal.

[mark_beckens]

There's your key.

Two years ago, yeah Davis would have been a great acquistion. Now he's an OK acquisition and the Orioles have the rest of the season to find out what they have, but let's not think he's going to be the solution. I think he's got a chance to be a solid bench player though - better than Bell or Snyder.

As I've said, this deal is more for Hunter. Adair is familiar with him and even Daniels mentioned that the Orioles wanted a back of the rotation arm before he talked about Davis.

By grabbing Hunter, the Orioles don't have to sign a FA starter which allows them to spend more money on hitters.

It's an OK deal, but I think you could have got a better guy from somebody else, but I think the Orioles were looking to get multiple pieces instead of just one after they weren't getting enough to deal Guthrie and found out Koji was their main trade chip.

You think his career would be different if we had traded for him 2 years ago? When he would have been more of an important part of the trade. It's comical after reading your comments back then, and now.

[SerenityNow]

I admit I haven't followed Davis closely since his big debut but his stats this year at AAA are absolutely ridiculous. I understand the PCL is a hitters league but he's hit 24 homers in 48 games with a 1.229 OPS. Hopefully he can figure out his problems against ML pitching.

I'm in Texas and they have been talking about his insane numbers for the last few months. I know it hasn't translated to the majors yet, but it's hard not to be excited about 24 homers in 48 games in AAA.