Pro Wrestling Thread

[Greg Pappas]

This is long overdue for we wrestling fans.

Let's shoot the breeze on the latest happenings with the WWE, TNA, RoH or whatever organization you wish.

I'll start out by saying that I'm a bit surprised by the Kevin Nash appearance and 'screw job' on Punk last night at SummerSlam. That entire situation is at the very least- interesting.

Christian/Orton was great. I love Christian, and wish he'd get back to being a face.

Henry/Sheamus was solid, and a cool ending.

Tonight's Raw should be fun.

Thoughts?

[Skeletor]

I think overall Kevin Nash is a good guy but with a massively overinflated sense of self worth. This smells to me like a Kliq move but we will wait and see, I suppose. I was hoping HHH would know better by now.

[Greg Pappas]

I think overall Kevin Nash is a good guy but with a massively overinflated sense of self worth. This smells to me like a Kliq move but we will wait and see, I suppose. I was hoping HHH would know better by now.

I sure hope that the nWo and Kliq stuff remains history, but this is Sports Entertainment... so anything goes.

[Sports Guy]

Well, the thought was Nash and XPac were going to help out HHH with identifying talent and working with them.

So, do they form some kind of a heel ownership faction? Perhaps building a stable of wrestlers, something like when Vinny Mac had his Corporation before?

Maybe Cena is the first guy in that?

It is very NWO-ish but those angles, if done right, can create major ratings and Cena turning heel and heading up something like that could be major for the company.

Plus, when he goes back to being a face, he will be that much more popular.

Oh well, just a thought of what direction they could go in.

[Greg Pappas]

Well, the thought was Nash and XPac were going to help out HHH with identifying talent and working with them.

So, do they form some kind of a heel ownership faction? Perhaps building a stable of wrestlers, something like when Vinny Mac had his Corporation before?

Maybe Cena is the first guy in that?

It is very NWO-ish but those angles, if done right, can create major ratings and Cena turning heel and heading up something like that could be major for the company.

Plus, when he goes back to being a face, he will be that much more popular.

Oh well, just a thought of what direction they could go in.

I could see this... but Cena turning heel (something I ssssooooooo want) may have been passed over, as it seems it should've happened at SS. Regardless, I'm stoked to see what happens.

[backwardsk]

I really don't watch much wrestling these days, but I watched a documentary the other night called "Beyond the Mat." Has anyone seen that? I think it's pretty dated, but it had a focus on Jake Roberts at the end of his career. Also, there is a Koko B Ware sighting.

[Sports Guy]

I could see this... but Cena turning heel (something I ssssooooooo want) may have been passed over, as it seems it should've happened at SS. Regardless, I'm stoked to see what happens.Yea...It could end up being something where they have the Corporation and Del Rio is the lead star and Punk and Cena are teaming up against them.

[Sports Guy]

I am surprised they left a lot of stuff open tonight.

Lots of unanswered questions.

[Skeletor]

It has been a long time since I last saw Stephanie McMahon.

Not a lot of questions answered but Punk was funny and at least they're doing something. There is a reason to tune in next week.

[Greg Pappas]

Yeah, a lot to figure out. I wonder if anything with HHH will transpire on Smackdown?

[Sports Guy]

It has been a long time since I last saw Stephanie McMahon.

Not a lot of questions answered but Punk was funny and at least they're doing something. There is a reason to tune in next week.When Cena saved Mysterio, I was expecting him to turn on him.

But, based on what was said, Cena doesn't appear to be turning heel.

Punk was supposedly meeting with HHH but I doubt they become all buddy buddy.

So, perhaps Nash and HHH will lead a heel faction with, as I said, Del Rio as the lead guy?

[Dipper9]

When Cena saved Mysterio, I was expecting him to turn on him.

But, based on what was said, Cena doesn't appear to be turning heel.

Punk was supposedly meeting with HHH but I doubt they become all buddy buddy.

So, perhaps Nash and HHH will lead a heel faction with, as I said, Del Rio as the lead guy?

I really wanted Cena to turn heel, but, if he acts more like he did last night, I'll be really happy. Serious, focused, angry Cena is how he should act, not the goofy "poopy" joking guy he has portrayed over the past couple years.

I'm glad Del Rio got his championship, as they need more young main eventers, but his opening promo put me to sleep.

I like Nash. Always have. It was mentioned yesterday that HBK canceled his European Tour, and then last night on RAW they dropped HBK's name again. The King is doing a lot of "thinking aloud" about the Band getting back together, which to me means they aren't. But if it brings Nash, HBK, and Trips onto the screen together for the first time since before the nWo days, I'm all for sitting back and seeing where it goes.

Also, I watched the Edge interview from SummerSlam on YouTube. If this guy can go for one more match, I think you can write down Edge vs Christian for Mania as well.

Where they go with Punk is interesting. At first I thought, please don't put him in a feud with Kevin Nash. But, as we've discussed, if Nash is aligned with "the Corporation" or whatever they will call themselves, then Punk would be in THE main story on RAW, which i where he needs to stay for a good while. Let him feud with the lower members before strapping it up against Trips or HBK at Mania???

I know it will be hard to bring back a bunch of guys for one event, but if they are healthy and willing, I'd try to put something like this together for Mania...

Cena vs Rock
Edge vs Christian
Punk vs HBK
Austin vs The Miz
Taker vs Brock Lesnar

Fill in the rest of the card with your title matches, IC and US titles, and a ladies match, and Mania would be HUGE.

[ShaneDawg85]

Well, the thought was Nash and XPac were going to help out HHH with identifying talent and working with them.

So, do they form some kind of a heel ownership faction? Perhaps building a stable of wrestlers, something like when Vinny Mac had his Corporation before?

Maybe Cena is the first guy in that?

It is very NWO-ish but those angles, if done right, can create major ratings and Cena turning heel and heading up something like that could be major for the company.

Plus, when he goes back to being a face, he will be that much more popular.

Oh well, just a thought of what direction they could go in.

This is kind of where my mind starting going last night. If they tried to pull an NWO type angle, Cena turning heel would be big. Maybe not 1996 Hogan big, but still pretty darn big.

[MikeAD]

Cena needs a monster heel run. Punk can sort of exist in the hybrid role. He can be a "heel" but he will still get big pops. Just let Cena chase after the title, as a heel. I assume the WWE will have Cena go on some crusade to get it, but they will keep him as a face, which is a shame.

It would be enormous though. Kids LOVE John Cena. My nephews don't even watch wrestling that much and they go ape-turds over him. They play with his toys and play as him in video games, and like I said, they aren't even wrestling fans. He is the current incarnation of Hogan. Nobody can be Hogan, or the Rock, or Flair, but right now he is the biggest. If he turned, it would be huge. It has to happen.

[Sports Guy]

Cena needs a monster heel run. Punk can sort of exist in the hybrid role. He can be a "heel" but he will still get big pops. Just let Cena chase after the title, as a heel. I assume the WWE will have Cena go on some crusade to get it, but they will keep him as a face, which is a shame.

It would be enormous though. Kids LOVE John Cena. My nephews don't even watch wrestling that much and they go ape-turds over him. They play with his toys and play as him in video games, and like I said, they aren't even wrestling fans. He is the current incarnation of Hogan. Nobody can be Hogan, or the Rock, or Flair, but right now he is the biggest. If he turned, it would be huge. It has to happen.Yea, it would probably be the best thing for WWE wrestling/plot wise but could be bad for business.

[MikeAD]

Yea, it would probably be the best thing for WWE wrestling/plot wise but could be bad for business.

It might be, but they are smart enough to market it right. Sure the T-Shirt and merchandise sales will go down, but I assume ratings will go up, and PPV buys, and they could find creative ways to continue to sell a ton of merchandise. And, who knows, if they can find a catchy way to do it, we could see nWo style merchandise, something that represents Heel Cena that becomes cool so kids will ask their parents to buy it.

[Skeletor]

When Cena saved Mysterio, I was expecting him to turn on him.

But, based on what was said, Cena doesn't appear to be turning heel.

Punk was supposedly meeting with HHH but I doubt they become all buddy buddy.

So, perhaps Nash and HHH will lead a heel faction with, as I said, Del Rio as the lead guy?

This makes a lot of sense. The only thing I could see keeping this from happening is whether or not Nash and HHH would want to work a full schedule.

I like ADR in the ring. He needs some work on the mic but that's the state of the business today. It seems they're throwing it against the wall and seeing what sticks and Del Rio is as good as any. If they can get some of the old guys back to put them over and pass the torch so to speak, things will be looking good.

[MikeAD]

This makes a lot of sense. The only thing I could see keeping this from happening is whether or not Nash and HHH would want to work a full schedule.

I like ADR in the ring. He needs some work on the mic but that's the state of the business today. It seems they're throwing it against the wall and seeing what sticks and Del Rio is as good as any. If they can get some of the old guys back to put them over and pass the torch so to speak, things will be looking good.

Del Rio is huge though, he taps into to a whole market of fans that the WWE usually ignores. The top scene in the WWE has always been white men, with a few exceptions. It good to see them pushing more than the usual guys. HHH has to work a full schedule right now too, since hes the head of the company he needs to be on every Raw and most Smackdowns. Nash would be a tougher sell, but maybe hes ready for a FT schedule.


On an unrelated note, did the Anonymous GM thing ever get settled? Either it went away or I missed the dramatic conclusion.

[Sports Guy]

I don't think you would see HHH and Nash wrestle much.

They would kind of be the head guys of the faction.

Notice last night that Nash said HHH said to take out whoever won the match. Also notice that Cena praised Punk last night.

Its possible that those 2 are the guys that would be going against the new faction.

The problem is, Cena is always that guy and he just had that long drawn out storyline with Nexus.

That's why having him as a bad guy is such a good idea...Its a totally different direction and it allows them to do things they haven't done.

But that doesn't appear to be the direction they are heading in.

A heel faction with guys like Del Rio, Mark Henry and guys like that could be what we are going to see.

[Dipper9]

Del Rio is huge though, he taps into to a whole market of fans that the WWE usually ignores. The top scene in the WWE has always been white men, with a few exceptions. It good to see them pushing more than the usual guys. HHH has to work a full schedule right now too, since hes the head of the company he needs to be on every Raw and most Smackdowns. Nash would be a tougher sell, but maybe hes ready for a FT schedule.


On an unrelated note, did the Anonymous GM thing ever get settled? Either it went away or I missed the dramatic conclusion.

Foley returns probably in October. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the "Anonymous GM."

Of course, with Trips making all the matches, I'm trying to figure out Teddy Long's job anyway! :scratchchinhmm:

[adamwolff11]

Great idea for a thread Greg! I know we've all enjoyed discussing wrasslin' in the 'Vince McMahon is a freakin genius' thread, so this is perfect.

I have to say: WWE is in a great place right now. A lot of unanswered questions, a lot of exciting ways they can take things. Although maybe it's a bit of a played out storyline, I think having a some sort of "corporate" group, maybe Nash, Stephanie, HHH, John L, and maybe even Cena would be a really fun storyline and good for ratings.

I'm a HUGE Nash fan, so I'm very glad to have him back. I thought he looked to be in great shape at the Royal Rumble, so who knows, maybe he wrestles a bit? Obviously I would expect his role wouldn't involve a lot of wrestling, but I bet it could involve some.

Now if they would just get rid of Smackdown, go to a 3 hour Raw, abandon the Raw/Smackdown as being separate entities, and have a unification match between the WWE Champion and World Heavyweight Champion, I'd be very happy :)

[Dipper9]

Great idea for a thread Greg! I know we've all enjoyed discussing wrasslin' in the 'Vince McMahon is a freakin genius' thread, so this is perfect.

I have to say: WWE is in a great place right now. A lot of unanswered questions, a lot of exciting ways they can take things. Although maybe it's a bit of a played out storyline, I think having a some sort of "corporate" group, maybe Nash, Stephanie, HHH, John L, and maybe even Cena would be a really fun storyline and good for ratings.

I'm a HUGE Nash fan, so I'm very glad to have him back. I thought he looked to be in great shape at the Royal Rumble, so who knows, maybe he wrestles a bit? Obviously I would expect his role wouldn't involve a lot of wrestling, but I bet it could involve some.

Now if they would just get rid of Smackdown, go to a 3 hour Raw, abandon the Raw/Smackdown as being separate entities, and have a unification match between the WWE Champion and World Heavyweight Champion, I'd be very happy :)

Smackdown should just move to a live showing on Tuesday nights. With spoilers, once I know what's gonna happen, I don't watch. I DVR it every week and 9 times out of 10 I end up deleting it without watching. If it was live on Tuesday, with nothing else on TV and not a weekend, the ratings would skyrocket.

[adamwolff11]

Smackdown should just move to a live showing on Tuesday nights. With spoilers, once I know what's gonna happen, I don't watch. I DVR it every week and 9 times out of 10 I end up deleting it without watching. If it was live on Tuesday, with nothing else on TV and not a weekend, the ratings would skyrocket.

Yeah, it's really not an intelligent design right now. A not live show on a Friday night. Not my cup of tea. I'd be much more inclined to watch a live Tuesday show as well.

[Skeletor]

I agree about the separate Raw/Smackdown rosters. They just don't have the talent right now to have two separate programs. They should combine them and move SD to Tuesday.

[Greg Pappas]

Great idea for a thread Greg! I know we've all enjoyed discussing wrasslin' in the 'Vince McMahon is a freakin genius' thread, so this is perfect.

I have to say: WWE is in a great place right now. A lot of unanswered questions, a lot of exciting ways they can take things. Although maybe it's a bit of a played out storyline, I think having a some sort of "corporate" group, maybe Nash, Stephanie, HHH, John L, and maybe even Cena would be a really fun storyline and good for ratings.

I'm a HUGE Nash fan, so I'm very glad to have him back. I thought he looked to be in great shape at the Royal Rumble, so who knows, maybe he wrestles a bit? Obviously I would expect his role wouldn't involve a lot of wrestling, but I bet it could involve some.

Now if they would just get rid of Smackdown, go to a 3 hour Raw, abandon the Raw/Smackdown as being separate entities, and have a unification match between the WWE Champion and World Heavyweight Champion, I'd be very happy :)

Good stuff... and yeah, I really dislike the whole Raw vs Smackdown thing.

[Dipper9]

Good stuff... and yeah, I really dislike the whole Raw vs Smackdown thing.

At the very least, if they are gonna separate them, then friggin keep them separate! They constantly have the other guys on the other show, thus negating the whole point of the brand extension. Now, if they truly kept them separate, then you could once in a blue moon have a guy show up on the other show and it would be awesome. But when they do it every week, there is really no point in having two brands.

On a different note, I get the whole "Michael Cole is a heal announcer" thing, but him talking over the actual performers in a segment is getting absurd. I truly wouldn't mind if he suffered some disease that keeps him from speaking!

[EASTERNSHOREFAN]

Some of the wrestling rumor sites are saying HHH is looking to reestablish the tag team division by signing some teams from outside the WWE such as the Briscoes from ROH. If true I like this move as long as they use actual teams and not just random pairings.

[Sports Guy]

I dislike the smackdown vs raw stuff as well but their have been some indications that they want to phase it out.

Whether or not they do that is a different story but it is better for the sport if it is one entity and not treated as 2 entities.

[Dipper9]

Smackdown should just move to a live showing on Tuesday nights. With spoilers, once I know what's gonna happen, I don't watch. I DVR it every week and 9 times out of 10 I end up deleting it without watching. If it was live on Tuesday, with nothing else on TV and not a weekend, the ratings would skyrocket.

Pure coincidence here, but there will be ONE live Smackdown in the next couple weeks...

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/198441/Smackdown-to-Air-Live-on-SyFy-This-Month.htm

[Greg Pappas]

Some of the wrestling rumor sites are saying HHH is looking to reestablish the tag team division by signing some teams from outside the WWE such as the Briscoes from ROH. If true I like this move as long as they use actual teams and not just random pairings.

This is something I'd do were I in charge, as it brings another element to the same old, same old routine. The Divas are unwatchable, and singles matches and occasional thrown-together tag matches are just dumb.


They need to build a great tag team division, but when they consistently have guys like Cena beating tag teams by himself in handicap matches, it severely weakens the validity of these teams as strong wrestlers.

I'd love to see them bring in a masked (or with wicked make-up) big brute team... mysterious guys (WWE could go all-out to keep who they are a secret) who simply bring the pain. They'd be monstrous men with vicious take-no-prisoners attitudes like the Road Warriors or Demolition, the Twin Towers, or Kronik. Perhaps a 7-footer like Steve Slocum (Jackson Andrews in the WWE) who was released earlier this year, could return and be one of the two. Ah well, it seems like if done right, it'd be pretty cool. =)

Also, just because guys aren't good on the mic doesn't mean they can't have great value. BRING BACK MANAGERS to do the hyping/interviews for them!

[waroriole]

I'd love to see them bring in a masked (or with wicked make-up) big brute team... mysterious guys (WWE could go all-out to keep who they are a secret) who simply bring the pain. They'd be monstrous men with vicious take-no-prisoners attitudes like the Road Warriors or Demolition, the Twin Towers, or Kronik. Perhaps a 7-footer like Steve Slocum (Jackson Andrews in the WWE) who was released earlier this year, could return and be one of the two. Ah well, it seems like if done right, it'd be pretty cool. =)

Also, just because guys aren't good on the mic doesn't mean they can't have great value. BRING BACK MANAGERS to do the hyping/interviews for them!

If they would do things like this, I might start watching again. The heel managers were a big part of what made WWF so good back in the 80's and early 90's. There just isn't another Bobby the Brain, and that's a shame.

Also, the matches now seem secondary to the smack talking. It used to be that the match was the entertaining part of a show.

Another thing that they just can't recreate is the amazing chemistry between Jesse Ventura and Gorilla Monsoon. Those two guys were as big a reason for the WWF's success has almost anything.

[Sports Guy]

If they would do things like this, I might start watching again. The heel managers were a big part of what made WWF so good back in the 80's and early 90's. There just isn't another Bobby the Brain, and that's a shame.

Also, the matches now seem secondary to the smack talking. It used to be that the match was the entertaining part of a show.

Another thing that they just can't recreate is the amazing chemistry between Jesse Ventura and Gorilla Monsoon. Those two guys were as big a reason for the WWF's success has almost anything.There was talk of having Michael Cole be a manager because he is so hated.

You also saw Vicki recruiting another wrestler to put in her stable.

The problem with tag teams are some of them get so good, that they eventually break them up. Look at Miz and Morrison.

Very few stay together for any length of time, so its hard to really get the tag team division moving.

[Greg Pappas]

An odd Raw... WWE is not AS predictable as before. That's a good thing.

[Dipper9]

Apparently there have been some good "twitter wars" going on recently between Punk and Austin and Miz and Jericho. Now, these could be just friends having some fun, or as with Rock and Cena, it could be WWE planting the seeds for a program with these guys. Mania next year maybe have a current stars vs legends theme?

Rock vs Cena
Austin vs Punk
Jericho vs Miz
Taker vs I don't know...Del Rio?
Mick Foley vs ????

Could be VERY interesting. The wrestling at the actual event wouldn't be great, but GD would the build be strong as hell and the buyrate would be off the charts!

[Greg Pappas]

Apparently there have been some good "twitter wars" going on recently between Punk and Austin and Miz and Jericho. Now, these could be just friends having some fun, or as with Rock and Cena, it could be WWE planting the seeds for a program with these guys. Mania next year maybe have a current stars vs legends theme?

Rock vs Cena
Austin vs Punk
Jericho vs Miz
Taker vs I don't know...Del Rio?
Mick Foley vs ????

Could be VERY interesting. The wrestling at the actual event wouldn't be great, but GD would the build be strong as hell and the buyrate would be off the charts!

You know, this wouldn't surprise me at all. I didn't know about Miz/Jericho. I do know that Jericho had a few comments about Punk though.

Again, you may be onto something.

[adamwolff11]

Apparently there have been some good "twitter wars" going on recently between Punk and Austin and Miz and Jericho. Now, these could be just friends having some fun, or as with Rock and Cena, it could be WWE planting the seeds for a program with these guys. Mania next year maybe have a current stars vs legends theme?

Rock vs Cena
Austin vs Punk
Jericho vs Miz
Taker vs I don't know...Del Rio?
Mick Foley vs ????

Could be VERY interesting. The wrestling at the actual event wouldn't be great, but GD would the build be strong as hell and the buyrate would be off the charts!

That would be a really, really good card. Here's hoping!

Also, I think it was a great move to have Kofi and Bourne win the tag titles. The tag division has been sooo weak and I think those guys can give it a shot in the arm. HHH has said the getting the tag division going again is a priority, so we'll see. Also, it looks like Truth and Miz have formed an alliance, so perhaps they'll be challenging for the titles? I will say, if they get those two teams established as legit tag teams, that could set up for the most interesting tag team match in quite awhile. Again, here's hoping!

[Dipper9]

That would be a really, really good card. Here's hoping!

Also, I think it was a great move to have Kofi and Bourne win the tag titles. The tag division has been sooo weak and I think those guys can give it a shot in the arm. HHH has said the getting the tag division going again is a priority, so we'll see. Also, it looks like Truth and Miz have formed an alliance, so perhaps they'll be challenging for the titles? I will say, if they get those two teams established as legit tag teams, that could set up for the most interesting tag team match in quite awhile. Again, here's hoping!

I'm not a big fan of neither Kofi nor Borne, but as a team I am intrigued, especially if it can get the tag division kick started. Remember the original Survivor Series? They had a ten team Survivor match. ANY of those ten teams today could come in and be the best team in the WWE today. I miss good tag team wrestling with teams who stayed together. The WWE always has good teams and then breaks them up as soon as they become successful.

[Dipper9]

That would be a really, really good card. Here's hoping!

Also, I think it was a great move to have Kofi and Bourne win the tag titles. The tag division has been sooo weak and I think those guys can give it a shot in the arm. HHH has said the getting the tag division going again is a priority, so we'll see. Also, it looks like Truth and Miz have formed an alliance, so perhaps they'll be challenging for the titles? I will say, if they get those two teams established as legit tag teams, that could set up for the most interesting tag team match in quite awhile. Again, here's hoping!

Oh, I forgot one other one too that I think they are setting up for....Christian vs Edge! I know Edge is injured and retired, but if there is one man he would trust enough with his health in a match, it would be his pal Christian!

[adamwolff11]

I'm not a big fan of neither Kofi nor Borne, but as a team I am intrigued, especially if it can get the tag division kick started. Remember the original Survivor Series? They had a ten team Survivor match. ANY of those ten teams today could come in and be the best team in the WWE today. I miss good tag team wrestling with teams who stayed together. The WWE always has good teams and then breaks them up as soon as they become successful.

Agree on everything in this post. WWE breaks the tag teams up way too soon. It used to be a pretty big shock when tag teams would break up. I was shocked when Shawn Michaels turned on Marty Janetty or when Scott Steiner turned on Rick. Those teams, especially the Steiners, had been established for quite awhile, and it just adds to the intrigue whenever one of those teams split. When a team is together for a few months and splits, it's just a "Oh, they're moving on. No big deal."

I think HHH will get the tag division turned around and I think overall he's going to do good things for the product. WWE, as Greg said, hasn't been predictable for the last few shows, which is a lot more than I could say about the previous..at least 6 months, probably more. It's moving in a nice direction.

[Greg Pappas]

Bourne and Kingston are a solid tag-team, and are decent as current 'Champions', but I hope HHH's vision of improving the TT Division comes to fruition in short order. We need 'real' TT Champs. Miz and Truth are a good combination, yet I'd prefer Miz to remain as a viable single's contender and occasional champ.

The Briscoe Brothers from RoH may be coming in time, but what other current tag teams could be brought in to bring glory and proper respect to the TT Division? I want to see at least 6 strong teams.

[Dipper9]

Bourne and Kingston are a solid tag-team, and are decent as current 'Champions', but I hope HHH's vision of improving the TT Division comes to fruition in short order. We need 'real' TT Champs. Miz and Truth are a good combination, yet I'd prefer Miz to remain as a viable single's contender and occasional champ.

The Briscoe Brothers from RoH may be coming in time, but what other current tag teams could be brought in to bring glory and proper respect to the TT Division? I want to see at least 6 strong teams.

I think you have to build the teams up. Let them compete for months and months and "earn" title shots, like they used to do. in recent history (say maybe even the past 10 years) every new team that comes in is immediately thrown into the title picture, wins the belts, holds them for a little while, loses them, then splits up and goes onto other things. The WWE has just completely dropped the ball with the Tag Division. Off the top of my head, teams that should not have been broken up include The original MnM, the World's Greatest Tag Team, Rhodes and DiBiasi, Nexus, Ryder and his partner, hell, even guys like the Spirit Squad and Santino and Kozlov should have stayed together. That's 7 teams just off of memory. Add in the Hart Dynasty, the young Somoan team whose names escape me, and Bourne and Kofi, and that's a ten team division right there.

[adamwolff11]

I think you have to build the teams up. Let them compete for months and months and "earn" title shots, like they used to do. in recent history (say maybe even the past 10 years) every new team that comes in is immediately thrown into the title picture, wins the belts, holds them for a little while, loses them, then splits up and goes onto other things. The WWE has just completely dropped the ball with the Tag Division. Off the top of my head, teams that should not have been broken up include The original MnM, the World's Greatest Tag Team, Rhodes and DiBiasi, Nexus, Ryder and his partner, hell, even guys like the Spirit Squad and Santino and Kozlov should have stayed together. That's 7 teams just off of memory. Add in the Hart Dynasty, the young Somoan team whose names escape me, and Bourne and Kofi, and that's a ten team division right there.

The Usos. Everything I've read lately has implied that they have a really bright future in wrestling. I've only seen a few of their matches, but it seems like they could be a valuable team to have, as two guys who are starting as a tag team, obviously being legit brothers. It's nice to have some teams like they to go along with the random pairings of wrestlers.

Completely agree with the handling of the tag division though. I was happy to see Bourne and Kingston win the title, because on their own neither was doing much for me and in this role they can likely thrive, but I really question how quickly they did it. It would have been nice to see them win a few other matches, maybe lose once or twice for the title (perhaps getting cheated or winning by dq or something), thus setting up a match at the PPV and a bit of a rivalry, with them ultimately getting the belts. It just seems WWE is in such a hurry with things anymore. I will say though, they've done a pretty good job with the HHH/CM Punk/Nash thing though, a couple weeks without clear answers on what the hell is going on has made for intriguing TV.

[Dipper9]

The Usos. Everything I've read lately has implied that they have a really bright future in wrestling. I've only seen a few of their matches, but it seems like they could be a valuable team to have, as two guys who are starting as a tag team, obviously being legit brothers. It's nice to have some teams like they to go along with the random pairings of wrestlers.

Completely agree with the handling of the tag division though. I was happy to see Bourne and Kingston win the title, because on their own neither was doing much for me and in this role they can likely thrive, but I really question how quickly they did it. It would have been nice to see them win a few other matches, maybe lose once or twice for the title (perhaps getting cheated or winning by dq or something), thus setting up a match at the PPV and a bit of a rivalry, with them ultimately getting the belts. It just seems WWE is in such a hurry with things anymore. I will say though, they've done a pretty good job with the HHH/CM Punk/Nash thing though, a couple weeks without clear answers on what the hell is going on has made for intriguing TV.

My prediction...this all ends with the Cliq holding hands in the middle of the ring. I can even see HBK coming back, getting between Nash and Trips while they are arguing, and then WHAM, Sweet Chin Music to Punk as he is standing idly by. Punk then feuds with the Cliq for the rest of the year before starting his program with....

http://www.pwfradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/stone-cold-steve-austin.jpg

[Greg Pappas]

The rumored Punk/Austin WM match would be HUGE, and would pop roughly as well as Rock/Cena. Jericho/Miz would be fun, and I could see that. Obviously an Era vs Era vibe would be at the core of the event, and could be truly special. If that is the idea, then I'd love to see a formerly great tag-team challenge again for the TT belts. But who? Hmmmmmm, how about the New Age Outlaws!?

[adamwolff11]

Punk/Nash has been announced for Night of Champions. Really interested to see what Nash has left in the tank. Thought it was interesting he came out to NWO music tonight.

Big announcement IMO was that from now on the Smackdown superstars would be on Raw. The Raw guys will also be on the live Smackdown tomorrow, so hopefully this is a movement towards a merging of the two shows. Would be a really strong move I think.

[Sports Guy]

HHH vs Punk at NOC now.

I prefer that to Nash.

[adamwolff11]

HHH vs Punk at NOC now.

I prefer that to Nash.

Certainly a better match, but I feel like they rushed it a bit. Still looking forward to it. Wonder what the plan will be for Nash now?

[Dipper9]

I missed Raw due to having no power, but reading the report it seemed like a decent show. I'm gonna miss the live Smackdown tonight probably too! DAMNIT!

I like the idea of scrapping the Brand Extension. Might make me start watching Smackdown again.

Trips vs Punk at NOC seems like a HUGE match for a secondary PPV. I see Nash running in and costing someone the match, either Punk or Trips. No way there is a clean finish to this match.

Greg, your thoughts about the New Age Outlaws was on my mind the other day, and I almost included them in my Mania Legends vs Stars of today Card, but I just didn't know who they would face? I don't see Kofi and Borne together all the way to Mania, and there aren't any real established teams, so I just didn't know what match to put them in.

[Greg Pappas]

I missed Raw due to having no power, but reading the report it seemed like a decent show. I'm gonna miss the live Smackdown tonight probably too! DAMNIT!

I like the idea of scrapping the Brand Extension. Might make me start watching Smackdown again.

Trips vs Punk at NOC seems like a HUGE match for a secondary PPV. I see Nash running in and costing someone the match, either Punk or Trips. No way there is a clean finish to this match.

Greg, your thoughts about the New Age Outlaws was on my mind the other day, and I almost included them in my Mania Legends vs Stars of today Card, but I just didn't know who they would face? I don't see Kofi and Borne together all the way to Mania, and there aren't any real established teams, so I just didn't know what match to put them in.


Agreed, as the TT division is pretty bad. At least R-Truth and Miz would be a decent option.

[Dipper9]

Agreed, as the TT division is pretty bad. At least R-Truth and Miz would be a decent option.

I like Truth and Miz, but I am hoping for Miz vs a returning face Jericho!

[Sports Guy]

Jericho has no desire to come back to wrestling right now.

Edge is a bad fall from dying or being paralyzed.

Austin may work a match but I wouldn't count on it.

Let's not go too far with the old guys all coming back...This isn't WCW or TNA although at least guys like Jericho, Austin and The Rock aren't cripples.

So many ways the Nash thing could go. The "surprise" would be that Nash is actually on the side of Punk when all is said and done.

In fact, that is how I expect this to all go down. They are playing up the HHH/Nash are good friends thing so much that it leads you to believe that the outcome is HHH and Nash screwing Punk....but there is no title at stake and this isn't a big PPV, so why would you do that? What good does it do to screw Punk at NOC in a non title match?

The only thing that makes sense is that Nash turns on HHH, joins Punk and they create some kind of a faction.

[MikeAD]

I can't see this being a real big match between Punk and HHH. I would love to see Punk fight all the corporate suits and wreak havoc and go into a big match with HHH at Wrestlemania, and I think thats what we will end up seeing.

Theres a few ways this can go:
1. The Match happens and this feud is over.
2. HHH gets hit with a car or jumped or something and someone steps in for the match.
3. Some incarnation of the fingerpoke of doom happens, where Nash, Punk and HHH align at the PPV. The alignment would be great, but not that way.
4. Nash turns on HHH, Punk wins and a long feud ensues with Punk/Nash/Others vs HHH.

Option 4 is how I see it, and would set up a big time match between HHH and Punk down the road at the Rumble or Mania.

[Dipper9]

The ONLY problem with the line of thinking that has Punk and Nash aligned is this...Nash cost Punk the title at SummerSlam. What possible reason would Punk have to give up the belt JUST so they could swerve Trips at a later date? It makes NO sense at all....which is exactly why the WWE would be dumb enough to do it.

The only thing I see that makes sense is Del Rio and Nash are aligned, but if that's the case, it puts Punk and Trips AND Cena all on the same side...which would really screw the bad guys!

[Sports Guy]

The ONLY problem with the line of thinking that has Punk and Nash aligned is this...Nash cost Punk the title at SummerSlam. What possible reason would Punk have to give up the belt JUST so they could swerve Trips at a later date? It makes NO sense at all....which is exactly why the WWE would be dumb enough to do it.The only thing I see that makes sense is Del Rio and Nash are aligned, but if that's the case, it puts Punk and Trips AND Cena all on the same side...which would really screw the bad guys!Nash goes to Punk, says HHH is the one who told him to do it. He tells Punk that he doesn't like the way HHH has been treating him and wants to screw him over.

In other words, it started off as a Nash/HHH vs Punk thing but that changes.

[Dipper9]

Nash goes to Punk, says HHH is the one who told him to do it. He tells Punk that he doesn't like the way HHH has been treating him and wants to screw him over.

In other words, it started off as a Nash/HHH vs Punk thing but that changes.

Then you take the freshly turned Punk and made him a bad guy? Or are Punk and Nash faces and Trips is the heel?

[Sports Guy]

Then you take the freshly turned Punk and made him a bad guy? Or are Punk and Nash faces and Trips is the heel?I think Punk is going to be like Austin was...A good bad guy.

BTW, just saw this:

http://www.prowrestling.com/article/news/19466

[Dipper9]

I think Punk is going to be like Austin was...A good bad guy.

BTW, just saw this:

http://www.prowrestling.com/article/news/19466

Work won't let me look at the link. What's it say?

[MikeAD]

Work won't let me look at the link. What's it say?

Essentially Nash took a physical in Pittsburgh, they didn't like what they saw and hes not going to wrestle. The decision to have HHH replace him against Punk happened yesterday, before Raw. He may wrestle down the road, but apparently not now.

I am not sure how long his contract is, its a Legends deal, so hes allowed to work for independent shows, but WWE can pull him from any show if they want him on the air.

[Sports Guy]

Work won't let me look at the link. What's it say?
The latest on Kevin Nash is that he is only back for a short run and not a full-fledged return. Nash is still signed to a WWE Legends deal and able to take indy bookings but must pull out of them if a WWE commitment comes up first. Before he came back, Nash was specifically interested in working with CM Punk.

That's the Nash info from that link.

[adamwolff11]

Really hope that this 'Super Smackdown' goes well so that they will consider this time slot permanently. Apparently this is viewed as a pretty big show and it's success could go a long way in determining what WWE does scheduling wise going forward.

[Sports Guy]

http://www.wwe.com/inside/wwefeaturepage/return-of-the-nwo

Interesting that WWE would even mention this idea. Makes me think more and more than Nash is turning against HHH.

[Dipper9]

http://www.wwe.com/inside/wwefeaturepage/return-of-the-nwo

Interesting that WWE would even mention this idea. Makes me think more and more than Nash is turning against HHH.

A 2011 version of the nWo with Trips, Nash, Big Show, Del Rio, and Cody Rhodes could be very good! Include Johnny Ace and Michael Cole as the hated mouthpieces as well.

[Sports Guy]

A 2011 version of the nWo with Trips, Nash, Big Show, Del Rio, and Cody Rhodes could be very good! Include Johnny Ace and Michael Cole as the hated mouthpieces as well.Why would Big Show be in it, especially with Del Rio?

I think Mark Henry would make more sense.

[Dipper9]

Why would Big Show be in it, especially with Del Rio?

I think Mark Henry would make more sense.

Just because he's been nWo twice before, and he is friends with those guys. From a storyline perspective, yeah, Mark Henry would be better. And speaking of him....about damn time they pushed him like this. From Sexual Chocolate to the big lovable teddy bear, they have screwed the pooch on him for years. He is finally over as a big mother who beats people up...imagine that!?!

[MikeAD]

Just because he's been nWo twice before, and he is friends with those guys. From a storyline perspective, yeah, Mark Henry would be better. And speaking of him....about damn time they pushed him like this. From Sexual Chocolate to the big lovable teddy bear, they have screwed the pooch on him for years. He is finally over as a big mother who beats people up...imagine that!?!

Yeah hes been around forever. I know they put a lot of stock in him for his bodybuilding that didn't turn out too well but hes done everything asked of him, he went down to OVW a bunch of times, hes done every storyline well, no matter how dumb.

End of his career, let him be a monster and take the Belt.

[Sports Guy]

WWE officials made the decision some time in the past week or so that Kevin Nash won't be wrestling for them. It's likely Nash will stick around for the time being and participate in the occasional angle but unless something changes, he won't be having a match. This is why CM Punk vs. Kevin Nash at Night of Champions was changed to Punk vs. Triple H. WWE knew going into RAW Monday night that Nash wouldn't be wrestling.

Nash recently went to Pittsburgh to do physicals for the company and something happened there that made them decide that they don't want Nash in the ring taking bumps and doing something as physical as a whole match. There is still some chance that Nash could end up wrestling but something happened after the physicals that have put a roadblack in front of Nash's return match.

The decision to put Triple H in the match with Punk wasn't made until Monday. The original plans had Punk going over Nash at Night of Champions.

But then there is this...



The decision to put CM Punk vs. Triple H on Night of Champions was actually made over the weekend. The match had been penciled in for the Survivor Series pay-per-view.

There's still no official word yet on what is keeping Kevin Nash from working a full-fledged match but most feel that it will be resolved soon.

The Nash vs. Punk feud was going to lead into the Punk vs. Triple H match but now the plan is to do Triple H vs. Punk first and then Nash vs. Punk. Original plans had Nash putting Punk over.

[MikeAD]

But then there is this...

Bizarre. If they keep it as it is now, and Triple H puts over Punk, I don't get the Nash part. HHH losing to Punk is much bigger than Punk beating Nash, HHH is HUGE.

I continue to be intrigued by this jumble.

[allstar1579]

Bizarre. If they keep it as it is now, and Triple H puts over Punk, I don't get the Nash part. HHH losing to Punk is much bigger than Punk beating Nash, HHH is HUGE.

I continue to be intrigued by this jumble.

All just a big ground-work to establish Punk as the next big Superstar. I mean he's a star now, but to make that next step to Cena/Orton status he probably needs a big run of him knocking off HUGE names. I guess he's being chosen as one of the next to carry the company with a lot of the older guys finally retiring.

[Sports Guy]

If HHH loses to Punk, I doubt it will be a "clean loss".

[Dipper9]

If HHH loses to Punk, I doubt it will be a "clean loss".

Whoever wins, I doubt its clean. I still think Nash costs Punk the win...Nash vs Punk at whatever October's event is called, then a Trips vs Punk rematch at Survivor Series. Remember, SS is also when Rock says he will be at the event to confront Cena!

[Sports Guy]

Whoever wins, I doubt its clean. I still think Nash costs Punk the win...Nash vs Punk at whatever October's event is called, then a Trips vs Punk rematch at Survivor Series. This is all possible...my only issue is this is the obvious thing here.

So, do they do the obvious?

[Greg Pappas]

I'm still waiting on the whole revamping/renewal of the TT Division.

[adamwolff11]

I'm still waiting on the whole revamping/renewal of the TT Division.

Yeah, I agree. They've been doing a decent job with getting 'Air Boom' established, but come on. They need to have tag matches that don't involve the champions.

As for the HHH/Punk/Nash debacle, it's pretty obvious Nash is going to have some sort of involvement in that match. I'm incredibly excited about the fact that Punk looks poised to be the face of the company for the foreseeable future. IMO he's the top in ring and out of ring performer in the WWE.

On another note, as good as I think that part of WWE has been, I think they've really been dropping the ball with their mid card guys. I'm hoping they step that up leading up to the PPV. I'd really like to see Truth and Miz start tagging, setting up a match with Air Boom and perhaps a lengthy feud.

[Sports Guy]

I'm still waiting on the whole revamping/renewal of the TT Division.Its going to take a while. They can't really do it overnight.

[Crazysilver03]

Completely agree with the handling of the tag division though. I was happy to see Bourne and Kingston win the title, because on their own neither was doing much for me and in this role they can likely thrive, but I really question how quickly they did it. It would have been nice to see them win a few other matches, maybe lose once or twice for the title (perhaps getting cheated or winning by dq or something), thus setting up a match at the PPV and a bit of a rivalry, with them ultimately getting the belts. It just seems WWE is in such a hurry with things anymore. I will say though, they've done a pretty good job with the HHH/CM Punk/Nash thing though, a couple weeks without clear answers on what the hell is going on has made for intriguing TV.

David Otunga and Michael McGillicutty were garnering no heat. They needed to lose the straps fast.

[Greg Pappas]

David Otunga and Michael McGillicutty were garnering no heat. They needed to lose the straps fast.

Agreed... both are lackluster guys, and I expect neither to amount to much, outside of MM reverting to Joe Hennig, and getting a push against Dolph Ziggler and his 'Perfection' angle. BTW, "Michael McGillicutty"? Really? REALLY? LOL

[Greg Pappas]

A guy that the WWE seems to be missing the boat on is Tyler Reks. That dude is too good to be this under-utilized. Is he hurt or something?

[adamwolff11]

A guy that the WWE seems to be missing the boat on is Tyler Reks. That dude is too good to be this under-utilized. Is he hurt or something?

I feel the same way. I'm really hoping he gets a push in the future, or at least some TV time for crying out loud. I thought he had superstar written all over him, but I haven't seen him for quite awhile. I'm pretty sure he's not hurt. He tweeted about being at an event last week, something about just waiting for an opportunity or something.

[Greg Pappas]

I feel the same way. I'm really hoping he gets a push in the future, or at least some TV time for crying out loud. I thought he had superstar written all over him, but I haven't seen him for quite awhile. I'm pretty sure he's not hurt. He tweeted about being at an event last week, something about just waiting for an opportunity or something.

Yeah, the WWE has always had an issue with focusing too much on a few story-lines, and not enough time pushing a roster of stars. Why can't there be real drama revolving around the IC/US title, nearly as much as the other two world titles? Tyler Reks and Justin Gabriel could be bigger stars if allowed to be.

[Sports Guy]

So, HHH fires Nash.

By doing that and saying that Nash isn't his friend anymore, it opens the door a little more for Nash helping HHH.

Also, HHH isn't going to be taken off of TV and taken out of the COO role in all likelihood, so its looking like a HHH win.

[Crazysilver03]

So, HHH fires Nash.

By doing that and saying that Nash isn't his friend anymore, it opens the door a little more for Nash helping HHH.

Also, HHH isn't going to be taken off of TV and taken out of the COO role in all likelihood, so its looking like a HHH win.

Yeah, as soon as that stipulation was made, I knew that HHH was going to win the match.

[adamwolff11]

Yeah, as soon as that stipulation was made, I knew that HHH was going to win the match.

I thought (and still do) the same thing, but the more I think about it, I don't think it's guaranteed. I felt the same way last year whenever Cena was the referee for the Barrett/Orton match I believe, if Orton won, Cena was fired. Orton won, Cena was 'fired', and it just basically opened up an interesting new angle. HHH could lose and then get involved in a power struggle for the company with someone: John L, Stephanie, Vince, Nash, who knows. I still think the likely scenario is him winning, but I don't believe it's a sure thing.

[MikeAD]

Probably part of the storyline but Nash has been released by WWE.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/241676-wwe-announces-that-kevin-nash-has-been-released

[Dipper9]

Quick thoughts:

I like Kevin Nash but he has seemed a bit "off" on the microphone since returning. Maybe he's just rusty, or maybe he's just lost it. I never watched him in TNA, so perhaps this is just him, but he's not the Nash I remember being so smooth and good on the mic.

I feel like CM Punk has lost a bit of his edge since the feud with Trips has started. His "pipe bombs" about Steph holding Trips balls and such was funny the first time, but after saying the same thing week after week its gotten stale really fast. I hope they don't blow a great thing here by having him job to Triple H at NOC.

Speaking of Triple H, I know the internet hates him, but the guy is Gold on the mic and still has the goods to go in the ring. I am hoping he loses to Punk, loses the COO gig, and just gets back in the ring on a semi-regular basis.

I am LOVING Truth and Miz together. If they're not careful, these guys are gonna be faces real soon, because they are hysterical and play off each other very well.

Sheamus is a friggin Monster. I love the dude and hope they keep him as an a$$ kicking monster and don't try to make him a funny guy.

About damn time they get behind Swaggar again. He's got the look. He can go in the ring. And if he hooks up with Vickie, he'll have a mouthpiece to do his talking. They could easily build this guy up as a main event contender again pretty quickly.

Alberto Del Rio...I'm not completely sold on him, and I thought his first promo after winning the title was not great, but his work last Monday night was very good. He needs to go over Cena strong at NOC, but I don't have the confidence that the WWE will let Cena lose three PPV's in a row.

Its September, which means Foley's TNA contract is over and he should be free to show up at any time! I can't wait to see him back in some role!

[Sports Guy]

Apparently Nash is filming some movie and isn't allowed to wrestle. He actually may not be back.

I agree with Dip about Punk. His schtick has already gotten old. This whole concept of telling it like it is was good and his original shoot was great but its has gone downhill since then.

[glenn__davis]

Not sure if this belongs here, but I've been up late with a newborn over the last week or so and have been watching some of the WWE films on Netflix.

Has anyone seen the Chris Jericho "Breaking the Code" special? Really good. Hardly any in-ring stuff, but just a documentary following his career from it's beginning. I was a big fan of WCW back in the NWO days, and Jericho was so, so good. Unbelievable that they just let him go to the WWE without much of a fight.

Also been watching the Macho Madness collection. Forgot how good he was back in his prime. Also watching these old bouts makes you realize how lost the art of selling is. Savage made his opponents look awesome.

OK - back to your regularly scheduled WWE discussion thread.

Oh - Kevin Nash is AWFUL. Awful awful awful. He has not done anything relevant since the early stages of the NWO. Terrible on the mic, terrible in the ring, and little to no effort. He is by far my least favorite wrestler ever.

[ShaneDawg85]

Not sure if this belongs here, but I've been up late with a newborn over the last week or so and have been watching some of the WWE films on Netflix.

Has anyone seen the Chris Jericho "Breaking the Code" special? Really good. Hardly any in-ring stuff, but just a documentary following his career from it's beginning. I was a big fan of WCW back in the NWO days, and Jericho was so, so good. Unbelievable that they just let him go to the WWE without much of a fight.

Also been watching the Macho Madness collection. Forgot how good he was back in his prime. Also watching these old bouts makes you realize how lost the art of selling is. Savage made his opponents look awesome.

OK - back to your regularly scheduled WWE discussion thread.

Oh - Kevin Nash is AWFUL. Awful awful awful. He has not done anything relevant since the early stages of the NWO. Terrible on the mic, terrible in the ring, and little to no effort. He is by far my least favorite wrestler ever.

A lot of that was the politics of WCW. They shafted every single guy that was in the cruiser weight division. Had they given more of a platform, and put guys like Jericho, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and Mysterio over, that company might have lasted a little while longer. Instead they kept the NWO storyline going far longer than it ever should have, kept the same cast of characters at the top and never promoted anybody new, or let guys that really were never more than mid-carders at best, like Jeff Jarrett and Scott Steiner, win multiple heavyweight championships. I'm sure WCW would have loved to have kept Jericho around and kept him in no-man's land, but I'm sure Jericho was just tired of not getting anywhere, and the pure incompetence of WCW.

[MikeAD]

A lot of that was the politics of WCW. They shafted every single guy that was in the cruiser weight division. Had they given more of a platform, and put guys like Jericho, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and Mysterio over, that company might have lasted a little while longer. Instead they kept the NWO storyline going far longer than it ever should have, kept the same cast of characters at the top and never promoted anybody new, or let guys that really were never more than mid-carders at best, like Jeff Jarrett and Scott Steiner, win multiple heavyweight championships. I'm sure WCW would have loved to have kept Jericho around and kept him in no-man's land, but I'm sure Jericho was just tired of not getting anywhere, and the pure incompetence of WCW.

Yeah it wasn't even much of a choice for him. Continue to fight in the below mid-card level or go premier as a star in the WWE. His WWE debut was hyped up like few others.

Business students, entertainers, really anyone trying to run anything should get a two hour course on how not to run something, WCW was just so poor. TNA might be worse, but I hear they have some profit at least.

[glenn__davis]

A lot of that was the politics of WCW. They shafted every single guy that was in the cruiser weight division. Had they given more of a platform, and put guys like Jericho, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and Mysterio over, that company might have lasted a little while longer. Instead they kept the NWO storyline going far longer than it ever should have, kept the same cast of characters at the top and never promoted anybody new, or let guys that really were never more than mid-carders at best, like Jeff Jarrett and Scott Steiner, win multiple heavyweight championships. I'm sure WCW would have loved to have kept Jericho around and kept him in no-man's land, but I'm sure Jericho was just tired of not getting anywhere, and the pure incompetence of WCW.

Oh, no question, I don't dispute any of this. In fact, he talks about it in the DVD - how he had this angle going with Goldberg, and thought it would be a decent PPV match, but Goldberg thought it was too unrealistic and basically just squashed him one night. It wasn't even a match, Goldberg just speared him on the ramp. He said that was when it was time to go.

Just amazing that they couldn't see how good he was. Everyone else in the world could. But I guess guys like Nash and Hogan had to keep their spots and get their money.

Sadly, I root for losers in life. The Orioles. WCW. Sega. Maybe one day I product I like will actually succeed. Not that I really liked WCW by the end, it was really bad by that point.

[Dipper9]

For all of WCW's mistakes, Vince was just as bad. When he bought WCW, how many of those guys are still in the WWE, much less how many were ever really pushed as legit superstars? Vince jobbed them all out because they weren't his creations.

Its REALLY amazing that Jericho survived through all that. I guess because Vince made him a main eventer and he was a mid carder in WCW, Jericho was allowed to shine???

[ShaneDawg85]

For all of WCW's mistakes, Vince was just as bad. When he bought WCW, how many of those guys are still in the WWE, much less how many were ever really pushed as legit superstars? Vince jobbed them all out because they weren't his creations.

Its REALLY amazing that Jericho survived through all that. I guess because Vince made him a main eventer and he was a mid carder in WCW, Jericho was allowed to shine???

There was a lot that went into it, in terms of why some guys stuck and others didn't. I think in the case of Jericho he always had the personality. Even during his whiny WCW days he had personality, and could really work a crowd. Add his personality with his youth, and the fact he was and is a very talented wrestler, and that was a pretty easy move to make.

[MikeAD]

For all of WCW's mistakes, Vince was just as bad. When he bought WCW, how many of those guys are still in the WWE, much less how many were ever really pushed as legit superstars? Vince jobbed them all out because they weren't his creations.

Its REALLY amazing that Jericho survived through all that. I guess because Vince made him a main eventer and he was a mid carder in WCW, Jericho was allowed to shine???

I mean, this is just wrong. Lots of guys came over from WCW and had good careers before the merger. Austin, X-Pac, Flair was WCW and a very high role with WWE whenever he was there. Big Show. Now he made Austin, but theres a long list of guys that had great pushes after coming from WCW to WWE. Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit, along with Rey Mysterio all have had HUGE careers with WWE after leaving WCW.

As far as people who came after the merger, a lot of guys left or just stopped wrestling (DDP) but got good pushes. But Flair, Chavo Guerrero Jr., Nash, Flair, Goldberg, Scott Steiner, and Booker T had good careers, or are still having them, with WWE. Also Stacy Keibler is on that list. She was used at the highest level for a Diva. She was made and developed by WCW. Other guys like Stesiak, Kidman, Lance Storm, and tons of other younger, cruiserweight guys were used, but never really caught on.

[Dipper9]

I mean, this is just wrong. Lots of guys came over from WCW and had good careers before the merger. Austin, X-Pac, Flair was WCW and a very high role with WWE whenever he was there. Big Show. Now he made Austin, but theres a long list of guys that had great pushes after coming from WCW to WWE. Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit, along with Rey Mysterio all have had HUGE careers with WWE after leaving WCW.

As far as people who came after the merger, a lot of guys left or just stopped wrestling (DDP) but got good pushes. But Flair, Chavo Guerrero Jr., Nash, Flair, Goldberg, Scott Steiner, and Booker T had good careers, or are still having them, with WWE. Also Stacy Keibler is on that list. She was used at the highest level for a Diva. She was made and developed by WCW. Other guys like Stesiak, Kidman, Lance Storm, and tons of other younger, cruiserweight guys were used, but never really caught on.

Your first paragraph is BEFORE the buyout. As for the guys after the buyout, Flair is Flair. Even as an old man he had great value. Chavo's only success came when Eddie was around and he was part of the Smackdown Six. After that he has been a jobber to the stars ever since. Nash was successful BEFORE he left for WCW, but after returning he didn't do much of anything worthy. They did nothing with Goldberg and Scotty Steiner was a miserable failure after coming back. The only one of that bunch who had a good long sustained run was Booker T. Stacy Keibler was another who was brought over pre-buyout.

My point was with all the talent that Vince bought with WCW, most of it went to waste.

[glenn__davis]

Your first paragraph is BEFORE the buyout. As for the guys after the buyout, Flair is Flair. Even as an old man he had great value. Chavo's only success came when Eddie was around and he was part of the Smackdown Six. After that he has been a jobber to the stars ever since. Nash was successful BEFORE he left for WCW, but after returning he didn't do much of anything worthy. They did nothing with Goldberg and Scotty Steiner was a miserable failure after coming back. The only one of that bunch who had a good long sustained run was Booker T. Stacy Keibler was another who was brought over pre-buyout.

My point was with all the talent that Vince bought with WCW, most of it went to waste.

Well by the time of the buyout, a lot of the truly "elite" talent had already left. Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero - I mean technically they were pre-buyout, but everyone knew the ship was sinking at that point.

Goldberg's a tough one. They had built him in to such a monster, that what do you do with him? You can't have him kill everyone every night, but that was pretty much what he was.

But I agree with your overall point that they really messsed up that angle. That should have been one of the greatest angles in wrestling history, and instead it wasn't even much of a blip.

[MikeAD]

Your first paragraph is BEFORE the buyout. As for the guys after the buyout, Flair is Flair. Even as an old man he had great value. Chavo's only success came when Eddie was around and he was part of the Smackdown Six. After that he has been a jobber to the stars ever since. Nash was successful BEFORE he left for WCW, but after returning he didn't do much of anything worthy. They did nothing with Goldberg and Scotty Steiner was a miserable failure after coming back. The only one of that bunch who had a good long sustained run was Booker T. Stacy Keibler was another who was brought over pre-buyout.

My point was with all the talent that Vince bought with WCW, most of it went to waste.

What my goal was there was to show that who created someone had nothing to do with their pushes or success in the WWE. There is a long list of success by crossover talent both before and after the merger. Vince cares about profit and entertainment. I don't think he ever brought in guys like RVD or Y2J to crush another organization or to "win" but because he knew they would sell tickets and get ratings. The reasons guys went to waste was that they went to waste. The ones that could have something happen did. Goldberg and Steiner had big roles but weren't huge. Fans didnt buy it, and what can you do with Goldberg, he wasn't the biggest ticket. Booker T had big success, and Keibler was brought over in the merger.

http://slam.canoe.ca/SlamWrestlingWCWSale/cyrus_01mar25-sun.html

[Greg Pappas]

That last segment got pretty interesting at the end there. I wish Punk wouldn't have hit HHH though.

[Dipper9]

That last segment got pretty interesting at the end there. I wish Punk wouldn't have hit HHH though.

Now THAT's what I'm talking about. No stupid balls jokes. No repetitive jibber jabber. Just two of the best going at it on the mic. That was a kick ass segment to end the show, and I am very interested in seeing how this plays out.

[Dipper9]

Okay, after having some time to think about this, here are my thoughts.

Punk has become whiny and repetitive over the past few weeks. His act is growing thin. Triple H made great points and pretty much answered all of Punk's complaints last night. Then we have the final cheap shot by Punk on Trips. I am starting to side with SportsGuy here...I think Punk, Nash, and Johnny L form some version of nWo 2011.

At some point, if Punk continues with the "I'm the best wrestler in the world" stuff, I can almost guarantee he will find himself face to face with the man who is the best in the world at what he does...Y2J....Chris Jericho, for a WrestleMania matchup!

[Sports Guy]

Now THAT's what I'm talking about. No stupid balls jokes. No repetitive jibber jabber. Just two of the best going at it on the mic. That was a kick ass segment to end the show, and I am very interested in seeing how this plays out.Yea but Punk is coming off as a cry baby. On one hands, he cries that Cena is getting all the attention and that this isn't what wrestling is supposed to be about and otoh, he wants that exact attention.

[Sports Guy]

Okay, after having some time to think about this, here are my thoughts.

Punk has become whiny and repetitive over the past few weeks. His act is growing thin. Triple H made great points and pretty much answered all of Punk's complaints last night. Then we have the final cheap shot by Punk on Trips. I am starting to side with SportsGuy here...I think Punk, Nash, and Johnny L form some version of nWo 2011.

At some point, if Punk continues with the "I'm the best wrestler in the world" stuff, I can almost guarantee he will find himself face to face with the man who is the best in the world at what he does...Y2J....Chris Jericho, for a WrestleMania matchup!Jericho has a lot going on now and has said he is not interested in returning to wrestling anytime soon.

[Dipper9]

The Night of Champions PPV this Sunday actually looks pretty good. Lets run it down.

1. Kelly Kelly defends against Beth Phoenix. I would have thought Beth would easily win this, but the recent WWE.com article has led to all the "Divas" taking exception to Beth and Natayla, so I see them all getting involved and Kelly retaining somehow.

2. InterContinental Championship: Cody Rhodes defends against Ted DiBiasi. Cody is hot right now and could be the next challenger for the World Title, so I see a pretty convincing win over Teddy Jr. here.

3. US Championship: Dolph Ziggler defends vs Jack Swaggar, John Morrison, and Alex Riley in a Fatal Four Way Match. They have rebuilt Swaggar back strong the past few weeks, so I see him walking out here with the US Title with some help from Vickie!

4. Tag Team Championship: AirBoom vs Miz and Truth. I'm still not a fan of AirBoom, and I really like Miz and Truth, but if they want to start rebuilding the tag division they need AirBoom to win this match and stop trading the belts around to whoever the newest thrown together team is. I'll go with AirBoom retaining.

5. World Heavyweight Championship: Randy Orton defends against Mark Henry. I love the push Henry is getting, and this is what he should have portrayed for years now, but winning the title ain't gonna happen. Some shenanigans will occur to help Orton retain. I'll say Henry wins by DQ to set up a rematch next month.

6. WWE Championship: Alberto Del Rio defends against John Cena. The Mexico tour has not yet occurred, and that's why they put the belt on Del Rio to begin with, so we aren't gonna see Cena with the strap yet. That said, he's not gonna lie down for Del Rio either, so it will be some type of DQ or countout or something that helps Del Rio retain.

7. No DQ: Triple H vs CM Punk. Its WAY to early in Punk's push to have him job to Trips here, but this is Trips first match since Mania, so he's not gonna lose clean to Punk. Its becoming more and more obvious, especially after the cheap shot from Punk on Monday, that either Punk is turning heal and aligning with Nash and john L, or else Nash, John L, and someone (Miz and Truth?), are gonna take out BOTH Triple H and Punk. I'll go with that finish...Punk and Trips BOTH get laid out. Since its no DQ, someone will then lay their arm across the chest of the other to get the win. I say Punk lays his arm across Trips, thus getting the win and John L can say Trips must honor his word to resign as COO.

[adamwolff11]

Dip, I pretty much agree with all of your picks. I have to say, I think WWE has built a pretty good card here. I'm hoping that if Swagger wins the US Championship it leads to a face turn for Dolph Ziggler. I think Ziggler is incredibly talented in the ring and from the times he has joined the broadcast team for a match, he seems pretty funny and witty as well. A continued feud between he and Swagger could be good.

Really excited for the tag title match, and I can't remember the last time I said that. I don't love Air Boom, but I actually think they're a really good pairing. Like you, really like Miz and Truth, I think they're comedic gold together and both very good in ring as well. Air Boom should win, furthering establishing them as a legit team and legit champions.

I think Nash definitely interferes in the HHH/Punk match, but not really sure what he does. Interesting you bring up Nash, John L and Miz/Truth. I think that would be EXCELLENT. John L acting as the non wrestling figure head, Nash being a leader who might occasionally wrestle, and Miz and Truth being the 'muscle' of the group. I think this could really work. Nash was fired by HHH, Miz/Truth feel like they've been left out since HHH took over..it makes a lot of sense. Would make for an interesting dynamic in the company.

Looking forward to the PPV!

[Greg Pappas]

I've asked this once before, about a year or two ago, but IF you were given the opportunity to create the Ultimate Wrestling Event, featuring all the all-time greats in their prime, what would your card look like? Take your time with this. :)

Personally, I'd book an entire week of festivities and matches in Baltimore, utilizing the newly built (hey, it's my fantasy!) 30,000 seat Charm City Center, as well as Camden Yards and Ravens Stadium! Matches would take place throughout each night of the seven-day event, with the final night being the incredible finale.

The first six nights would feature tournament matches that are to determine the greatest of the great.

The three tournaments would be as follows…

The Greatest Women’s Champion
The Greatest Tag-Team Champions
The Greatest Men’s Champion

On night seven, both the Women’s and Tag-Team tournament would culminate in a final four, while the Men’s Tournament would conclude with a Great Eight. This means that there would be thirteen matches altogether.

The Women’s Tournament Final Four would be:

Mildred Burke vs Trish Stratus
Fabulous Moolah vs Jaguar Yokota


The Tag-Team Tournament Final Four would be:

The Road Warriors vs The Dudley Boyz
Edge & Christian vs Fabulous Freebirds


The Men’s Tournament Great Eight would be:

Bret ‘Hitman’ Hart (who beat Buddy Rogers) vs Andre the Giant (who beat Antonio Inoki)
The Undertaker (who beat Harley Race) vs Ric Flair (who slipped past Bruno Samartino)
‘Stone Cold’ Steve Austin (who stunned Dusty Rhodes) vs Lou Thesz (who ‘upset’ Sting)
Shawn Michaels (who beat John Cena) vs Kurt Angle (who ‘upset’ Hulk Hogan)

[Dipper9]

I've asked this once before, about a year or two ago, but IF you were given the opportunity to create the Ultimate Wrestling Event, featuring all the all-time greats in their prime, what would your card look like? Take your time with this. :)

Personally, I'd book an entire week of festivities and matches in Baltimore, utilizing the newly built (hey, it's my fantasy!) 30,000 seat Charm City Center, as well as Camden Yards and Ravens Stadium! Matches would take place throughout each night of the seven-day event, with the final night being the incredible finale.

The first six nights would feature tournament matches that are to determine the greatest of the great.

The three tournaments would be as follows…

The Greatest Women’s Champion
The Greatest Tag-Team Champions
The Greatest Men’s Champion

On night seven, both the Women’s and Tag-Team tournament would culminate in a final four, while the Men’s Tournament would conclude with a Great Eight. This means that there would be thirteen matches altogether.

The Women’s Tournament Final Four would be:

Mildred Burke vs Trish Stratus
Fabulous Moolah vs Jaguar Yokota


The Tag-Team Tournament Final Four would be:

The Road Warriors vs The Dudley Boyz
Edge & Christian vs Fabulous Freebirds


The Men’s Tournament Great Eight would be:

Bret ‘Hitman’ Hart (who beat Buddy Rogers) vs Andre the Giant (who beat Antonio Inoki)
The Undertaker (who beat Harley Race) vs Ric Flair (who slipped past Bruno Samartino)
‘Stone Cold’ Steve Austin (who stunned Dusty Rhodes) vs Lou Thesz (who ‘upset’ Sting)
Shawn Michaels (who beat John Cena) vs Kurt Angle (who ‘upset’ Hulk Hogan)

Cool idea. I'll put some thought into this before posting. I like your tournament idea a lot.

[Sports Guy]

I didn't see it but Cena and Henry win titles tonight...and it appears Nash helped HHH beat CM Punk.

EDIT: It actually appears Miz, Truth and Nash just wanted to beat up both of these guys.

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2011/0918/544567/wwe-night-of-champions/index.shtml

[MikeAD]

Yeah, weird on Nash taking both of them out and HHH and Nash going at it. More to come I guess.

Disappointed that Cena won over Del Rio, I hope they do this feud right.

[Sports Guy]

Yeah, weird on Nash taking both of them out and HHH and Nash going at it. More to come I guess.

Disappointed that Cena won over Del Rio, I hope they do this feud right.Maybe wwe realizes no one cares about Del Rio?

I see The Rock and Cena will be doing a Survivor Series match together(traditional 5 on 5).

[Dipper9]

Maybe wwe realizes no one cares about Del Rio?

I see The Rock and Cena will be doing a Survivor Series match together(traditional 5 on 5).

Weird that they have Cena and Rock tagging. It would make WAY more sense having them on separate teams, but I guess they don't want them actually facing each other until Mania.

As for Cena winning the strap again, I have mixed feelings. I absolutely LOATHE that Cena is the champion again, as that along with Trips beating Punk just shows the old adage the more things change, the more they stay the same. On the other hand, Del Rio isn't ready to be the champ. They need to stop throwing the titles on the young guys who have yet to figure out how to work a crowd. I'm talking about Swagger, Del Rio, even Sheamus. They threw the title on these guys too fast before allowing them to really develop in the ring and on the mic. I guess now we'll have Cena as champ all the way through Mania so they can have Cena vs Rock be a title match, which I think is a HUGE mistake. Cena vs Rock will sell on its own. You could then have another main event somewhere with the WWE Title. I hope they don't screw this up, but after reading about last night's event and the upcoming SS tag match, I have a feeling they will.

[Sports Guy]

Weird that they have Cena and Rock tagging. It would make WAY more sense having them on separate teams, but I guess they don't want them actually facing each other until Mania.

As for Cena winning the strap again, I have mixed feelings. I absolutely LOATHE that Cena is the champion again, as that along with Trips beating Punk just shows the old adage the more things change, the more they stay the same. On the other hand, Del Rio isn't ready to be the champ. They need to stop throwing the titles on the young guys who have yet to figure out how to work a crowd. I'm talking about Swagger, Del Rio, even Sheamus. They threw the title on these guys too fast before allowing them to really develop in the ring and on the mic. I guess now we'll have Cena as champ all the way through Mania so they can have Cena vs Rock be a title match, which I think is a HUGE mistake. Cena vs Rock will sell on its own. You could then have another main event somewhere with the WWE Title. I hope they don't screw this up, but after reading about last night's event and the upcoming SS tag match, I have a feeling they will.I highly doubt Cena is the champ at Mania. If he is, and it is a title match, then you know he is going to win the match. They aren't going to have the The Rock win the belt.

[ShaneDawg85]

I have no vested interest in it, and I haven't paid nearly enough attention to know how good of a performer he really is, but from an entertainment and showman standpoint, Albert Del Rio may be one of the worst WWE Champions ever. Even masked Kane or Big Show was and is more entertaining than Del Rio. Every monologue I've heard from him is awful, and while Cena winning is bad in terms of variety and new blood, just based on entertainment value alone it has to be exponentially better.

[Sports Guy]

I have no vested interest in it, and I haven't paid nearly enough attention to know how good of a performer he really is, but from an entertainment and showman standpoint, Albert Del Rio may be one of the worst WWE Champions ever. Even masked Kane or Big Show was and is more entertaining than Del Rio. Every monologue I've heard from him is awful, and while Cena winning is bad in terms of variety and new blood, just based on entertainment value alone it has to be exponentially better.Right. Del Rio is really bad.

I know they wanted to have that Mexican champion but this is a guy who said he wanted to retire in like 5 years. He really isn't that great and the never sold him as a legit star.

I think that's why they took the belt from him. He was the champ for their mexican tour, they saw they he never got over with the crowd and they took the belt away.

I don't get why he gets a push like this but Drew McIntyre doesn't.

[Dipper9]

Right. Del Rio is really bad.

I know they wanted to have that Mexican champion but this is a guy who said he wanted to retire in like 5 years. He really isn't that great and the never sold him as a legit star.

I think that's why they took the belt from him. He was the champ for their mexican tour, they saw they he never got over with the crowd and they took the belt away.

I don't get why he gets a push like this but Drew McIntyre doesn't.

Drew McIntyre is the Nolan Reimold of the WWE! :D

[adamwolff11]

I enjoyed the PPV. As often happens, by the time the main event rolls around, I've got a healthy buzz on. So while some of the specifics may be rather hazy, I know it was enjoyable.

I thought the tag match was very enjoyable. A win like this helps legitimize Air Boom and Miz/Truth are very entertaining. It was predictable that Nash interfered in the Trips/Punk match, but not as predictable that he would take them both out.

Cena winning the title is gross, but Del Rio isn't really deserving. A win over Cena would have helped him, and Cena getting it back is annoying as hell, but whatever.

I was actually happy Henry won the title. He's finally being booked like he should have. It's frustrating that a year ago this guy was jobbing to mid card guys and now he's a monster, but such is the WWE. If you think about it too much, you'll ruin it for yourself.

All in all, good PPV!

[MikeAD]

Well I actually watched Raw tonight.

Early on Del Rio vs Cena vs Punk triple threat at Hell in a Cell for the Title and a tag team match tonight..Punk/Cena vs. Truth and Miz.

Cena and Punk win the match and Triple H fires Truth and Miz, they gang up on HHH in the back and HHH literally has them thrown out.

Bizarre. So now that they are fired they are most certainly with Nash as some sort of Outsider group, however, how do they debut with Punk in the triple threat match? Maybe Punk is just out of this mix?

[Dipper9]

Hell in a Cell PPV in 2 weeks already? Yikes. The new announced main events of Cena vs Punk vs Del Rio in the HIAC and Mark Henry vs Orton in theHIAC should be outstanding. I'm really enjoying Mark Henry over the past few months, and I hope they let him win again at HIAC. I also want to see Punk come out of the PPV with the title back.

As for Raw, I like the two title matches made for the PPV, I like the storyline with Punk/Trips/Miz/Truth/Nash, and I like Swagger getting back on track. What I don't like is the execution of the story. John L is awful on the microphone. Just awful. I also don't like how they are telegraphing everything. Its WAY too obvious that John L, Miz, Truth, and Nash are in cahoots. So the WWE is either going to have to 1) drop a bombshell, like having Punk go heel again as the leader of this group, or 2) go lazy and just continue telling the story that everyone sees coming, ie John L is leading Nash, Miz, and Truth, or 3) dip to the same well for the umpteenth time and have Vinnie Mac come back to lead this group. I don't like any of those scenarios.

I would, however, like to see Del Rio added to that group, and I hope that's where they go. Punk wins the title at HIAC. Del Rio gets a rematch at Survivor Series against Punk while Cena and Rock go play in a 5 on 5 elimination match, and during the title match Del Rio's troops of Nash, Miz, Truth, and John L come down and destroy Punk.

But we'll see what happens I guess.

[Sports Guy]

Yea..I think its trending towards the obvious right now but I also don't see anything wrong with that.

A group with Nash, Miz and R Truth as the "outsiders"...John L(who I agree is awful) playing the "Bischoff role".

Wouldn't shock me to see Mark Henry as part of this group...He talked yesterday about guys like Jim Ross underappreciating him and things like that.

Del Rio will be in it for sure because he wants HHH out.

The surprise could very well be Punk. The fact that he pointed the finger at John L leads you to think the other way.

Not to mention, I thought I read where John L had Punk cover HHH the other night, after they both got beat up.

[MikeAD]

Yea..I think its trending towards the obvious right now but I also don't see anything wrong with that.

A group with Nash, Miz and R Truth as the "outsiders"...John L(who I agree is awful) playing the "Bischoff role".

Wouldn't shock me to see Mark Henry as part of this group...He talked yesterday about guys like Jim Ross underappreciating him and things like that.

Del Rio will be in it for sure because he wants HHH out.

The surprise could very well be Punk. The fact that he pointed the finger at John L leads you to think the other way.

Not to mention, I thought I read where John L had Punk cover HHH the other night, after they both got beat up.

The thing is thats a huge group. Nash, Miz and Truth is a decent size, you would just need the World Title guy, and that's either del Rio, Punk or Henry. If it is all or more than one of them, I am already bored. Then you just have to see 5 on 5 tag matches until the cows come home.

[Sports Guy]

The thing is thats a huge group. Nash, Miz and Truth is a decent size, you would just need the World Title guy, and that's either del Rio, Punk or Henry. If it is all or more than one of them, I am already bored. Then you just have to see 5 on 5 tag matches until the cows come home.Yea but the NWO was way bigger than that.

Nexus started off with like 7 or 8 guys.

Usually, the concept of most of these groups is strength in numbers and since Nash apparently isn't going to do much wrestling(if any), they need actual wrestlers and they need some bigger names.

NAsh has come out to the NWO music...Punk has dropped the idea of the "kliq" coming back together, etc...

All of those things are usually little hints that add up to something larger.

[MikeAD]

Yea but the NWO was way bigger than that.

Nexus started off with like 7 or 8 guys.

Usually, the concept of most of these groups is strength in numbers and since Nash apparently isn't going to do much wrestling(if any), they need actual wrestlers and they need some bigger names.

NAsh has come out to the NWO music...Punk has dropped the idea of the "kliq" coming back together, etc...

All of those things are usually little hints that add up to something larger.

Yeah but the good ones are small. NWO didn't start off huge. DX was two guys when it started, plus Chyna then Rude, then so on, it got pretty big but it was never MASSIVE, same with the Nation of Domination. Evolution, Legacy, 4 Horseman, all these stables were good and small. I don't want to see some sort of 6 person deal the first night.

The Corre and Nexus were sort of boring, outside of Punk they had no real crowd reaction. The Corporation and the Ministry were both big, and then there was the monstrosity of the Corporate Ministry, but that was a time when WWE could literally do no wrong.

[Dipper9]

Yeah but the good ones are small. NWO didn't start off huge. DX was two guys when it started, plus Chyna then Rude, then so on, it got pretty big but it was never MASSIVE, same with the Nation of Domination. Evolution, Legacy, 4 Horseman, all these stables were good and small. I don't want to see some sort of 6 person deal the first night.

The Corre and Nexus were sort of boring, outside of Punk they had no real crowd reaction. The Corporation and the Ministry were both big, and then there was the monstrosity of the Corporate Ministry, but that was a time when WWE could literally do no wrong.

Del Rio, Nash, Miz, and Truth with John L as the corporate leader would be my first choice.

Replace Del Rio with Punk as my second choice, but if they do that they will destroy Punk's push! He'll still be over but not to the extent that he may go if he continues to Stone Cold version 11 character.

[MikeAD]

I really like the idea of Mark Henry coming on after a week or two, although I am fine with him being an animal/beast champ as long as they want to keep it that way. It has been awhile since WWE had a monster. Let Kane come back whenever and feud with him, or anything really, as long as it isn't him dropping the belt to Orton at HIAC, I will be livid.

Nash, Miz, Truth, and John L will need a top guy, so I guess it has to be Punk. Del Rio would make sense too, and that group still is a reasonable size. If they want to grow it they could have Awesome Truth win the Tag Titles, have the World title and pick up the IC belt, make it all one mega group of power.

However, as you've all mentioned, this is all very obvious, so the head guy (where we say Punk, Del Rio) might be a surprise. I just can't think of anyone. Any of the guys who aren't around wouldn't be wrestlers and they already have the non-wrestling wrestler in Nash.

[Sports Guy]

I wonder if they keep the strap on Henry for a long while, keeping him with this mean monster type character and then, if he is healthy, have him go against Taker at Mania?

[MikeAD]

I wonder if they keep the strap on Henry for a long while, keeping him with this mean monster type character and then, if he is healthy, have him go against Taker at Mania?

My reason to answer no to this are that
A. They have already fought at Wrestlemania 22
B. WWE can't seem to keep ANY storyline or title reign that lasts that long. I could see the Rumble at a maximum.

I would like that though, they need a real fight for Taker and not just Triple H again.

[Greg Pappas]

Nash, Miz, Truth, and John L will need a top guy, so I guess it has to be Punk. Del Rio would make sense too, and that group still is a reasonable size. If they want to grow it they could have Awesome Truth win the Tag Titles, have the World title and pick up the IC belt, make it all one mega group of power.

However, as you've all mentioned, this is all very obvious, so the head guy (where we say Punk, Del Rio) might be a surprise. I just can't think of anyone. Any of the guys who aren't around wouldn't be wrestlers and they already have the non-wrestling wrestler in Nash.

Cena as lead bad guy would be AWESOME!

[Dipper9]

I really like the idea of Mark Henry coming on after a week or two, although I am fine with him being an animal/beast champ as long as they want to keep it that way. It has been awhile since WWE had a monster. Let Kane come back whenever and feud with him, or anything really, as long as it isn't him dropping the belt to Orton at HIAC, I will be livid.

Nash, Miz, Truth, and John L will need a top guy, so I guess it has to be Punk. Del Rio would make sense too, and that group still is a reasonable size. If they want to grow it they could have Awesome Truth win the Tag Titles, have the World title and pick up the IC belt, make it all one mega group of power.

However, as you've all mentioned, this is all very obvious, so the head guy (where we say Punk, Del Rio) might be a surprise. I just can't think of anyone. Any of the guys who aren't around wouldn't be wrestlers and they already have the non-wrestling wrestler in Nash.

There are only a few that would fit.

Jericho. Brock. Maybe Goldberg?

[MikeAD]

Cena as lead bad guy would be AWESOME!

Yeah everyone has been calling for a Cena turn for a long time. It would be truly epic, but Vince will never pull the trigger. It would be about the only thing that could approach Hogan turning at his peak (in terms of today's wrestling). Mainstream fans adore him.

[Sports Guy]

My reason to answer no to this are that
A. They have already fought at Wrestlemania 22
B. WWE can't seem to keep ANY storyline or title reign that lasts that long. I could see the Rumble at a maximum.

I would like that though, they need a real fight for Taker and not just Triple H again.Agree with both thoughts but he has had repeat matches before.

[Sports Guy]

Cena as lead bad guy would be AWESOME!Yea, that would be the blockbuster. That would be the best way for all of this to go.

[Sports Guy]

There are only a few that would fit.

Jericho. Brock. Maybe Goldberg?Dip, you gotta stop getting your hopes up about all of these guys all of a sudden coming back to wrestling.

Jericho is to Dipper as Fielder is to Trea. :D

[Dipper9]

Dip, you gotta stop getting your hopes up about all of these guys all of a sudden coming back to wrestling.

Jericho is to Dipper as Fielder is to Trea. :D

I could care less about Goldberg or Brock.

I do like Jericho, and he is entertaining as hell, but I agree with you that he has a lot of other stuff going on. However, the difference between him and Fielder is Jericho WILL be back at some point. Maybe not today...maybe not by this year's Mania...but he and Vince have a good relationship and he will be back at some point.

Actually, the Fielder comp is Sting. That is one guy I never see giving in and coming to the E.

[Sports Guy]

I could care less about Goldberg or Brock.

I do like Jericho, and he is entertaining as hell, but I agree with you that he has a lot of other stuff going on. However, the difference between him and Fielder is Jericho WILL be back at some point. Maybe not today...maybe not by this year's Mania...but he and Vince have a good relationship and he will be back at some point.

Actually, the Fielder comp is Sting. That is one guy I never see giving in and coming to the E.Good...He is terrible.

[ShaneDawg85]

I could care less about Goldberg or Brock.

I do like Jericho, and he is entertaining as hell, but I agree with you that he has a lot of other stuff going on. However, the difference between him and Fielder is Jericho WILL be back at some point. Maybe not today...maybe not by this year's Mania...but he and Vince have a good relationship and he will be back at some point.

Actually, the Fielder comp is Sting. That is one guy I never see giving in and coming to the E.

Years ago I would have loved to seen him come in. Part of me still wants to see a Taker vs. Sting match. But they're both well past their primes, Sting in particular, and there just isn't a reason for him to come to WWE at this stage of his career, other than a big payday.

[Dipper9]

Years ago I would have loved to seen him come in. Part of me still wants to see a Taker vs. Sting match. But they're both well past their primes, Sting in particular, and there just isn't a reason for him to come to WWE at this stage of his career, other than a big payday.

The WWE wanted him last year to come in and face Taker at Mania, but Sting ultimately decided to return to TNA. Probably a good choice on his part as he's been their champ most of the year. Probably also part of the reason TNA sucks so bad. They just keep relying on the fossils.

As for the WWE, they wanted Sting mostly for a Legends type of deal where they can start selling DVD's of his days in WCW. Aside from a match with Taker or Cena, he is too old to help any of the talent that is featured today in the WWE. A match at last year's Mania and then the DVDs would have made signing him worth it, but featuring him on a weekly basis on TV would have sucked...just as it has for TNA.

I am hearing rumors that Hogan is leaving TNA. It could easily be a work, or it could be real. If he does leave, that will fuel all kinds of rumors once again of a Hogan vs Austin Mania match. The match would suck, but the build would be out of this world. Adding Hogan vs Austin to Cena vs Rock would sell millions for Mania, without even counting the title matches, Taker match, etc.

[ShaneDawg85]

The WWE wanted him last year to come in and face Taker at Mania, but Sting ultimately decided to return to TNA. Probably a good choice on his part as he's been their champ most of the year. Probably also part of the reason TNA sucks so bad. They just keep relying on the fossils.

As for the WWE, they wanted Sting mostly for a Legends type of deal where they can start selling DVD's of his days in WCW. Aside from a match with Taker or Cena, he is too old to help any of the talent that is featured today in the WWE. A match at last year's Mania and then the DVDs would have made signing him worth it, but featuring him on a weekly basis on TV would have sucked...just as it has for TNA.

I am hearing rumors that Hogan is leaving TNA. It could easily be a work, or it could be real. If he does leave, that will fuel all kinds of rumors once again of a Hogan vs Austin Mania match. The match would suck, but the build would be out of this world. Adding Hogan vs Austin to Cena vs Rock would sell millions for Mania, without even counting the title matches, Taker match, etc.

Didn't Hogan recently have some really serious back surgery? Between that and not being in good shape anyway, not to mention the amount of ring rust on Austin, I can't see that happening. They had their chance to do that at Mania in Toronto, but neither would lose to the other one. If he does leave TNA, and if he's still on any good terms with Vince, he'd probably come back and do some appearances. But actually wrestling, let alone wrestling Steve Austin, is probably wishful thinking.

[Sports Guy]

Didn't Hogan recently have some really serious back surgery? Between that and not being in good shape anyway, not to mention the amount of ring rust on Austin, I can't see that happening. They had their chance to do that at Mania in Toronto, but neither would lose to the other one. If he does leave TNA, and if he's still on any good terms with Vince, he'd probably come back and do some appearances. But actually wrestling, let alone wrestling Steve Austin, is probably wishful thinking.And why would you wish that anyway?

[ShaneDawg85]

And why would you wish that anyway?

I don't wish to see Hulk Hogan wrestle ever again. I was never a big Hulk Hogan guy anyway, whether heel or face. And while Steve Austin is one of my all-time favorites, I can't imagine him having anything left in the tank after not wrestling a real match in over 8 years.

[Dipper9]

I don't wish to see Hulk Hogan wrestle ever again. I was never a big Hulk Hogan guy anyway, whether heel or face. And while Steve Austin is one of my all-time favorites, I can't imagine him having anything left in the tank after not wrestling a real match in over 8 years.

I WAS a big Hogan guy, but I do not wish to ever see him wrestle again.

As for Austin, he looks to be in top condition, and if you watched Tough Enough last year, you would see he can still go.

I still would love to see either Austin vs Punk or Austin vs Miz at this year's Mania, but as SG points out, that is as likely as Fielder in an O's uniform.

[Dipper9]

I wasn't a big fan of the Trips fired Miz and Truth angle at the end of RAW last week, but these two have been all over the place this week really building on this angle. I am now VERY intrigued at where this is going.

I was not a fan of Miz nor Truth for a long time, but over the past couple years these guys have REALLY grown on me. I think we're looking at Miz/Truth leading the Survivor Series team against Rock/Cena's team...which SHOULD mean that Cena is not the champ at SS. If Punk walks out of this week's PPV as the champ, it would make sense for Del Rio to be his challenger at SS while Cena plays sing along with the Rock!

[Greg Pappas]

I wasn't a big fan of the Trips fired Miz and Truth angle at the end of RAW last week, but these two have been all over the place this week really building on this angle. I am now VERY intrigued at where this is going.

I was not a fan of Miz nor Truth for a long time, but over the past couple years these guys have REALLY grown on me. I think we're looking at Miz/Truth leading the Survivor Series team against Rock/Cena's team...which SHOULD mean that Cena is not the champ at SS. If Punk walks out of this week's PPV as the champ, it would make sense for Del Rio to be his challenger at SS while Cena plays sing along with the Rock!

Yeah,both Miz and Truth have grown on me as well. I used to be one of those Miz-haters, but he is truly an elite-level star.

This whole HHH/Punk/Nash/Laurinaitis/Miz/Truth storyline is --at the very least-- interesting. I hope Cena winds up being the lead heel, but I fear he'll never (not anytime soon) switch.

[MikeAD]

Holy crap, 17 minutes in and this Raw is already amazing.

[Crazysilver03]

Holy crap, 17 minutes in and this Raw is already amazing.

First time I have watched RAW in forever. Def awesome start. Too bad the end of the battle royale was too predictable.

[MikeAD]

Thanks to the wonders of the World Wide Web I can watch Raw and Monday Night Football at the same time. Thank God its 2011.

[Dipper9]

Thoughts on Hell in a Cell. I didn't see it, but based on the reports:

1. Cody Rhodes is slowly bringing the Inter Continental Championship back to prominence. Good for him, and its good to see the WWE bring back the old belt.

2. I'm glad Del Rio won the Championship off of Cena, but if that was the plan, why did they take it off him to begin with? Had he defended it at the last PPV and then pulled the same victory last night, it would have given him some credibility. Instead, they have traded the belt around for the past few months and its making ALL of the champs look weak. Not a good job of booking the WWE Title.

3. On the other hand, Mark Henry gets another dominating win vs Orton, and even kicked out of the RKO. Awesome. I can't believe how much I'm loving me some Mark Henry right now. So I guess Sheamus is up next for him?

4. Miz and Truth apparently wrecked havoc all night, and then took out all three of the main eventers to end the evening. I think the Survivor Series match might just be Miz, Truth, and friends vs Cena, Rock, Trips, Kofi, and Bourne. That would be awesome.

[Dipper9]

VERY interesting ending to RAW last night. I am intrigued to see where this story goes. It would be too easy for Trips to just resign, but with everyone walking out, not sure what else they could do. Very interesting. Also interesting that the faces, Cena, Orton, and Punk, were missing from the scene. :scratchchinhmm:

[Sports Guy]

VERY interesting ending to RAW last night. I am intrigued to see where this story goes. It would be too easy for Trips to just resign, but with everyone walking out, not sure what else they could do. Very interesting. Also interesting that the faces, Cena, Orton, and Punk, were missing from the scene. :scratchchinhmm:They almost never have the big names come out when they do these types of "empty the Raw lockerroom" things.

[Crazysilver03]

VERY interesting ending to RAW last night. I am intrigued to see where this story goes. It would be too easy for Trips to just resign, but with everyone walking out, not sure what else they could do. Very interesting. Also interesting that the faces, Cena, Orton, and Punk, were missing from the scene. :scratchchinhmm:

I just read a source that said they didn't have the top names out because the writers expected the crowd to boo and didn't want the crowd booing the top faces.

[Dipper9]

They almost never have the big names come out when they do these types of "empty the Raw lockerroom" things.


I just read a source that said they didn't have the top names out because the writers expected the crowd to boo and didn't want the crowd booing the top faces.

There's a story on WWE.com saying Trips is not stepping down and that Cena, Punk, Orton, Sheamus, and Big Show will headline RAW this week. So I guess that explains why they purposely didn't have those guys come out. So will they be facing jobbers? FCW guys who have yet to be on TV? I wonder who the announcers will be? The refs? This is an interesting storyline to say the least.

[Sports Guy]

So, it appears everyone was at smackdown though, right?

Its pretty poor to have everyone walk out, talk about how many guys may not be there for Raw and yet, you have them all at smackdown.

Raw may be the main show but HHH is still "the boss" of the Smackdown wrestlers and many of those guys were at Raw when they all walked out.

Its very inconsistent.

[Dipper9]

So, it appears everyone was at smackdown though, right?

Its pretty poor to have everyone walk out, talk about how many guys may not be there for Raw and yet, you have them all at smackdown.

Raw may be the main show but HHH is still "the boss" of the Smackdown wrestlers and many of those guys were at Raw when they all walked out.

Its very inconsistent.

They have said "RAW" is an unsafe place to work. Not sure what makes Smackdown or PPVs any more safe? Its a cool stroyline until you take 2 seconds to think about the holes...kinda like EVERY wrestling storyline.

[Sports Guy]

Well, this storyline has turned into a dud IMO.

BTW, I love how the angle was that it was an unsafe working environment and there was interference in the first 2 bouts...and no one points it out.

[MikeAD]

I only just caught the last match but wtf...not sure where this strange storyline is going but you have to love HHH clearing house to end Raw.

Punk and HHH vs Truth and Miz at Vengence....

[Sports Guy]

They could have done so much more with this storyline.

Now, the real GM will probably be Mick Foley when he comes back but who cares?

Hopefully HHH will go back to wrestling full time but other than that, this fizzled out.

[MikeAD]

They could have done so much more with this storyline.

Now, the real GM will probably be Mick Foley when he comes back but who cares?

Hopefully HHH will go back to wrestling full time but other than that, this fizzled out.

Right, this was misguided from the beginning. There could still be some shock value, but ultimately they've taken this down a terrible route.

[Dipper9]

Right, this was misguided from the beginning. There could still be some shock value, but ultimately they've taken this down a terrible route.

They took this to the anticipated ending, but as SG said, it could have been so much better.

That said, we know Cena and Rock are on a SS team together. Could be possibly see a "Dream Team" of sorts with Rock, Cena, Trips, Punk, and a fifth (maybe Sheamus) vs a Johnny Ace led team of Miz, Truth, and three more of his cronies?

Also, as rushed as this story was, and as many holes as it has, the end result is...

1. Trips back in action on a semi-regular basis? I like funny Trips, but seeing him make another run in the ring will be fun IF he stays away from the title.

2. Mick Foley returns as GM? I know most don't care, but I love Foley and would be happy for this.

3. Vengeance, a typical throw away PPV, is shaping up real nice...

3a. Trips and Punk vs Miz and Truth (I see this being the big swerve. Either Punk or Trips joins forces with Miz and Truth and destroys the other guy.)
3b. Del Rio vs Cena (ADR really needs a strong showing and defense here, but I fear the WWE will put the belt back on Cena, which would kill Del Rio's push.)
3c. Henry vs Big Show (Henry has really grown on me, and his feud with Show has been very well built.)
3d. Rhodes vs Orton seems likely. (Orton doesn't need the IC belt, but a win by Rhodes will elevate both Rhodes AND the IC Belt.)

All in all, I was disappointed at the rushed storyline, but I like the possibilities going forward.

[Sports Guy]

They took this to the anticipated ending, but as SG said, it could have been so much better.

That said, we know Cena and Rock are on a SS team together. Could be possibly see a "Dream Team" of sorts with Rock, Cena, Trips, Punk, and a fifth (maybe Sheamus) vs a Johnny Ace led team of Miz, Truth, and three more of his cronies?

Also, as rushed as this story was, and as many holes as it has, the end result is...

1. Trips back in action on a semi-regular basis? I like funny Trips, but seeing him make another run in the ring will be fun IF he stays away from the title.

2. Mick Foley returns as GM? I know most don't care, but I love Foley and would be happy for this.

3. Vengeance, a typical throw away PPV, is shaping up real nice...

3a. Trips and Punk vs Miz and Truth (I see this being the big swerve. Either Punk or Trips joins forces with Miz and Truth and destroys the other guy.)
3b. Del Rio vs Cena (ADR really needs a strong showing and defense here, but I fear the WWE will put the belt back on Cena, which would kill Del Rio's push.)
3c. Henry vs Big Show (Henry has really grown on me, and his feud with Show has been very well built.)
3d. Rhodes vs Orton seems likely. (Orton doesn't need the IC belt, but a win by Rhodes will elevate both Rhodes AND the IC Belt.)

All in all, I was disappointed at the rushed storyline, but I like the possibilities going forward.None of these are all that great. They really could have made something good out of this and instead, they crapped the bed.

[Dipper9]

None of these are all that great. They really could have made something good out of this and instead, they crapped the bed.

Wrestling in general is not all that great anymore SG. I am not a real big fan of any of the new guys, and Vince seems to have lost a grip on what the fans want to see. It is what it is. I can usually fast forward through RAW in about 45 minutes.

[Skeletor]

Wrestling in general is not all that great anymore SG. I am not a real big fan of any of the new guys, and Vince seems to have lost a grip on what the fans want to see. It is what it is. I can usually fast forward through RAW in about 45 minutes.

I agree. I'm not going to say having a PG program is bad in itself, but it seems the writing has struggled to stay entertaining since the switch. You can still have the OMG! moments at a PG level but I haven't seen many.

[Dipper9]

I agree. I'm not going to say having a PG program is bad in itself, but it seems the writing has struggled to stay entertaining since the switch. You can still have the OMG! moments at a PG level but I haven't seen many.

Grown men who have been feuding for months and hate each other and want to kill each other should not be saying..."At WrestleMania, I am gonna kick your butt gosh darn it!"

PG doesn't work in wrestling.

[adamwolff11]

Grown men who have been feuding for months and hate each other and want to kill each other should not be saying..."At WrestleMania, I am gonna kick your butt gosh darn it!"

PG doesn't work in wrestling.

I agree. It just comes off as lame to me. I get why, from a business standpoint, the PG era has been very successful. One of the best things about the attitude era was the unpredictability. Austin, The Rock, DX, Mick Foley, etc. were all capable of doing anything and everything inside and outside of the ring. You wanted to get the PPV because you might see something that would stun or shock you. Maybe wrestling purists didn't love this period, but from an entertainment standpoint, it was excellent. I mean hell, there was a chance one of the divas would lose their outfit as well!

As Skeletor said, you can still have OMG! moments, but they really haven't. Maybe we're always going to be looking back at another era fondly, but wrestling is just rather vanilla these days. Even the style of wrestling is just boring. There might be some technically good matches, but a lot of it is just repetitive and predictable.

There's plenty to complain about, but I do still enjoy it. We'll see how things go over the next few months.

[glenn__davis]

As Skeletor said, you can still have OMG! moments, but they really haven't. Maybe we're always going to be looking back at another era fondly, but wrestling is just rather vanilla these days. Even the style of wrestling is just boring. There might be some technically good matches, but a lot of it is just repetitive and predictable.

There's plenty to complain about, but I do still enjoy it. We'll see how things go over the next few months.

I dont know if others will agree, but I think one thing that really makes a wrestling product great, and that all major promotions have been sorely lacking really since Vince left the table, is good commentating.

I think back to the days with Gorilla Monsoon or Vince McMahon, who were both terrific face commentators, talking with Bobby Heenan and Jesse Ventura, who were terrific heel commentators. Juxtapose that with what you see today both on WWE and TNA.

As I mentioned earlier I've been watching the Savage collection set, and it's all PG, but so much more entertaining IMO. I don't know, maybe it's just nostalgia, but I really feel like the announcers back then presented things so much better.

[Dipper9]

I dont know if others will agree, but I think one thing that really makes a wrestling product great, and that all major promotions have been sorely lacking really since Vince left the table, is good commentating.

I think back to the days with Gorilla Monsoon or Vince McMahon, who were both terrific face commentators, talking with Bobby Heenan and Jesse Ventura, who were terrific heel commentators. Juxtapose that with what you see today both on WWE and TNA.

As I mentioned earlier I've been watching the Savage collection set, and it's all PG, but so much more entertaining IMO. I don't know, maybe it's just nostalgia, but I really feel like the announcers back then presented things so much better.

I agree. Monsoon, Heenan, Jesse, Vince were all Gold at the announce table. JR in his heyday was awesome. I like Michael Cole as the heel, but he is overbearing in the booth and makes me want to change the channel. I cannot believe Vince thinks that is entertaining, but apparently he does. I thought the match with King at Mania was going to be the end of that crap, but instead Cole has gotten even worse. It brings the entire broadcast down. I want to see Triple H pedigree his ass repeatedly over and over again until he stops commentating on Raw.

[Sports Guy]

I agree. Monsoon, Heenan, Jesse, Vince were all Gold at the announce table. JR in his heyday was awesome. I like Michael Cole as the heel, but he is overbearing in the booth and makes me want to change the channel. I cannot believe Vince thinks that is entertaining, but apparently he does. I thought the match with King at Mania was going to be the end of that crap, but instead Cole has gotten even worse. It brings the entire broadcast down. I want to see Triple H pedigree his ass repeatedly over and over again until he stops commentating on Raw.I doubt it...Vince is in his ear every week telling him what to say.

[Dipper9]

I doubt it...Vince is in his ear every week telling him what to say.

That's what I'm saying. Vince is the one who thinks its entertaining. Its garbage and makes me want to change the channel.

[allstar1579]

I doubt it...Vince is in his ear every week telling him what to say.

I thought it was all a long set up to have the Rock squash him when he comes back for a short stint. The Rock vs. Coach ones were classic, and I felt like they were setting up for some more of that.

[Dipper9]

I thought it was all a long set up to have the Rock squash him when he comes back for a short stint. The Rock vs. Coach ones were classic, and I felt like they were setting up for some more of that.

If the payoff to two years of listening to a-hole Cole is a verbal beatdown from the Rock, it will NOT be worth it.

Speaking of the Great One, he is now scheduled for the 3 hour RAW the Monday before Survivor Series. Its being billed as a Rock Appreciation Night, so look for the return of Mick Foley on that show as well!

[ShaneDawg85]

I don't wish to see Hulk Hogan wrestle ever again. I was never a big Hulk Hogan guy anyway, whether heel or face. And while Steve Austin is one of my all-time favorites, I can't imagine him having anything left in the tank after not wrestling a real match in over 8 years.

Going back to my original point about Hulk Hogan, well, I can only dream, because he's STILL wrestling, and it's going to be against Sting, AGAIN. Seriously, it wasn't a good match in 1997, and it won't be a good one now. TNA must stand They Never Age, because that has to be their mindset in letting some of these guys continue to replay stories that were played out 15-20 years ago.

[Sports Guy]

Dipper, you know Foley is pretty awful now, right?

[MikeAD]

Dipper, you know Foley is pretty awful now, right?

He said hes got one good match left in him. Not a great one, but a good one. I don't even know if that's true. I do know that he has lost his edge or something because his promos and mic skills aren't that great anymore either.

[Dipper9]

Dipper, you know Foley is pretty awful now, right?


He said hes got one good match left in him. Not a great one, but a good one. I don't even know if that's true. I do know that he has lost his edge or something because his promos and mic skills aren't that great anymore either.

I haven't seen him since he went to TNA, but he was always entertaining on the microphone, and that's all I'm looking for. I don't expect nor want to see him in the ring wrestling, unless its to put someone over big time like he did with Edge at Mania 22.

[adamwolff11]

To the point made about how lame WWE sounds some times with the PG sort of promos, last night on TNA Impact, Christopher Daniels attacked AJ styles and as he was hitting him was screaming something like 'Talk S*** now!' over and over. He then choked him out with a chord and called him a son of a b. TNA might not be great and is probably heading downhill overall, but it actually felt like Daniels wanted to kick AJ's ass and seemed really pissed.

[ShaneDawg85]

Dear Dwayne Johnson,

Please, give up the acting and come back to wrestling for a year or two. We need more stuff like this:


http://youtu.be/JjWyCzcfeS0

[McNulty]

Scott Hall documentary on Wednesday 8PM on ESPN. Looks like its going to be pretty compelling.


Hey yo (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dlqkh5)

[adamwolff11]

Scott Hall documentary on Wednesday 8PM on ESPN. Looks like its going to be pretty compelling.


Hey yo (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dlqkh5)

Thanks for posting dude. I was always a huge fan of Scott and it's been tough to see what he's become. I'm definitely going to tune in on Wednesday. So much is said about him, it'll be interesting to hear what he has to say.

[Dipper9]

Scott Hall documentary on Wednesday 8PM on ESPN. Looks like its going to be pretty compelling.


Hey yo (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dlqkh5)

Hmmm, sounds interesting, but this is airing opposite the first game of the World Series? I think I'll stick with the WS.

[McNulty]

Hmmm, sounds interesting, but this is airing opposite the first game of the World Series? I think I'll stick with the WS.

You don't have a DVR? Get one, its life changing.

[Dipper9]

You don't have a DVR? Get one, its life changing.

lol

No, I do, but it will be taping Survivor (family) and The Middle (the wife and kids). Hopefully they will re-air the Hall documentary.

[mweb]

Scott Hall documentary on Wednesday 8PM on ESPN. Looks like its going to be pretty compelling.


Hey yo (http://www.twitlonger.com/show/dlqkh5)

He was one of my favorites. In fact the youtube clip above made me waste a couple hours looking at clips of the NWO coming into the WWE (I missed that short version of the NWO) and then the beginning of the NWO in the WCW. That was my favorite era in wrestling.

[allstar1579]

He was one of my favorites. In fact the youtube clip above made me waste a couple hours looking at clips of the NWO coming into the WWE (I missed that short version of the NWO) and then the beginning of the NWO in the WCW. That was my favorite era in wrestling.

I just did the same thing...

[mweb]

I just did the same thing...

Nice. I haven't always followed wrestling, but the Bash at the Beach when Hogan turns on the WCW to join Nash and Hall may be the best or biggest moment in wrestling history.

[allstar1579]

Nice. I haven't always followed wrestling, but the Bash at the Beach when Hogan turns on the WCW to join Nash and Hall may be the best or biggest moment in wrestling history.

I went through phases of watching it/not watching it growing up, I like to check in on it to see if it gets more interesting or not, but I don't watch too much anymore.

I wrote a financial analysis of the WWE back in like 2001 in school and I was really interested and surprised at a lot of the things I learned about the family and company. Talked with Stephanie herself through email when I was explaining the project and asking for info, she was really helpful (she had to do a similar project a year before and used Trump). I'll always have a soft spot for the company after that.

[mweb]

I went through phases of watching it/not watching it growing up, I like to check in on it to see if it gets more interesting or not, but I don't watch too much anymore.

I wrote a financial analysis of the WWE back in like 2001 in school and I was really interested and surprised at a lot of the things I learned about the family and company. Talked with Stephanie herself through email when I was explaining the project and asking for info, she was really helpful (she had to do a similar project a year before and used Trump). I'll always have a soft spot for the company after that.

Same here regarding the first line.

That's cool about your school project. I thought Stephanie was really hot back around that time.

[allstar1579]

Same here regarding the first line.

That's cool about your school project. I thought Stephanie was really hot back around that time.

Me too, so I was super-boosted that it was her that responded. I guess whoever gets those random emails thought it was interesting and passed it along, she said someone on the PR side of things sent it to her because it reminded her of the project Stephanie had to do. She had the connections to get help from Trump himself, but she thought it would be cool to be able to give the same kind of help to just a random student. It was so hard not to ask her 1,000 questions.

[Dipper9]

Same here regarding the first line.

That's cool about your school project. I thought Stephanie was really hot back around that time.

Have you seen her recently? I think she's gotten better with age!

[ccbird]

Scott Hall was one of my favorites. Shame what has happened to him. The whole NWO angle was brilliant. The inception and the first year or so building to Sting vs Hogan at Starcade '97.

[ShaneDawg85]

Scott Hall was one of my favorites. Shame what has happened to him. The whole NWO angle was brilliant. The inception and the first year or so building to Sting vs Hogan at Starcade '97.

Culminating with one of the greatest letdowns of a match in wrestling history.

[ccbird]

Culminating with one of the greatest letdowns of a match in wrestling history.

No doubt about that. Match wasn't good and then Hogan not putting Sting over clean and subsequently stripping him of the title was was horrible. All down hill from there.



BTW found the Punk Cena MITB match online recently and watched it. That was one hell of a match. Great atmosphere and terrific match.

[adamwolff11]

Have you seen her recently? I think she's gotten better with age!

Yeah, she's still smoking hot. There was always something about her for me, I just think she's gorgeous.

[Dipper9]

Yeah, she's still smoking hot. There was always something about her for me, I just think she's gorgeous.

Me too. Her body seems oddly shaped, but she is just beautiful. There are some shots on Google of just her face, and you're right, she's gorgeous. Add in her, um, assets, and Triple H is a lucky man!

[glenn__davis]

Scott Hall was one of my favorites. Shame what has happened to him. The whole NWO angle was brilliant. The inception and the first year or so building to Sting vs Hogan at Starcade '97.

Yeah, Scott Hall was my favorite as well. I remember him making us crack up at some point on virtually every show.

"It's survey time! Did you all come out here tonight to see...dubya cee dubya?"

[adamwolff11]

The Scott Hall piece was very well done, very powerful. It's amazing how bad things have gotten for him. He said he's taking 11 prescription medications and has a pacemaker. He never made reference to trying to get sober or being sober, so I'm assuming he's still drinking. He seemed to be very honest and forthright about things.

It would be great to see him get it together. Also interesting to note he has a 20 year old son that was shown wrestling with him on the independent circuit.

He also shot and killed a man when he was 25 in a fight outside a strip club. The other guy was the one who had the gun, Hall got it and shot him, and the case was ultimately thrown out. I had never heard about that.

I'm not sure if E60 can be watched online or on demand anywhere, but I'd absolutely recommend it for any past or present fan of wrestling.

[mweb]

Yeah, that was a very good and depressing piece on Hall.

The piece on Willis was really good as well.

[DuffMan]

That was definitely tough to watch, I had never heard that story about him shooting a guy either.

[ccbird]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7124904&categoryid=2378529


The piece on Hall if anybody missed it.

[Sports Guy]

His father told him he would slip.

Everyone in his family was an addict...and yet he still did it anyway.

Unreal.

[MikeAD]

Damn, I just watched that....freaking depressing.

[adamwolff11]

I showed the piece to my father and it was emotional for us. Coming from a family that has seen a lot of people struggle with addiction, and one ultimately lose their life to that addiction, it hits home. I really hope Scott can get it together.

[MikeAD]

So at Vengence just now Truth and Miz vs Punk and HHH...Nash came out and attacked HHH to give Truth/Miz the win and now hes attacking Triple H.

Also Nash is RIPPED, he looks better than hes looked in years. Wasn't even limping...

Moments later he is still attacking HHH, dragging him around. This has been a great PPV so far...well not worth the price but worth the stream.

This tag match was great and so was the match for the tag title, Air Boom vs. Swagger/Ziggler was great, the Sheamus vs Christian match was great and so was the Ryder vs. Ziggler US Title match. Solid.

It looks like they are selling a collarbone/neck injury for HHH.

[Dipper9]

So at Vengence just now Truth and Miz vs Punk and HHH...Nash came out and attacked HHH to give Truth/Miz the win and now hes attacking Triple H.

Also Nash is RIPPED, he looks better than hes looked in years. Wasn't even limping...

Moments later he is still attacking HHH, dragging him around. This has been a great PPV so far...well not worth the price but worth the stream.

This tag match was great and so was the match for the tag title, Air Boom vs. Swagger/Ziggler was great, the Sheamus vs Christian match was great and so was the Ryder vs. Ziggler US Title match. Solid.

It looks like they are selling a collarbone/neck injury for HHH.

Looking more and more like Miz/Truth/Nash/Del Rio are all aligned with Johnny L. Assuming there is a title match at Survivor Series (we'll say Del Rio vs Punk), that leaves Miz/Truth/Nash and two open spots to go against the super group of Cena/Rock/Trips and two open spots. Should be good.

[MikeAD]

So HHH gets sent to the hospital by Nash to open the show, it looks like Punk will fight del Rio for the Title at Survivor Series and as expected we have Cena and the Rock vs Awesome Truth at the PPV.

So weird...

[Sports Guy]

Its just so bad.

All of that buildup and all you end up with is a Nash/HHH feud and John L taking over..which is more annoying than good.

[MikeAD]

Its just so bad.

All of that buildup and all you end up with is a Nash/HHH feud and John L taking over..which is more annoying than good.

It is absurd. Its drug on for so long and it has gone nowhere. The worst part is they can still mess this up several different ways. So bizarre.

[Sports Guy]

It is absurd. Its drug on for so long and it has gone nowhere. The worst part is they can still mess this up several different ways. So bizarre.And on top of all of that, the reason you get rid of HHH is because of the "unsafe environment" and yet all the run ins, attacks, etc...are all still happening.

Now, that's fine but your bogus storyline to get HHH out of there looks even worse.

[ShaneDawg85]

What purpose did having the ring break on Mark Henry and Big Show serve? We get it, they're two massive beasts, but what point does that serve? Even if the point is for them to do it again at Survivor Series, they couldn't have just had the match end normally to build it up for the next ppv?

[MikeAD]

What purpose did having the ring break on Mark Henry and Big Show serve? We get it, they're two massive beasts, but what point does that serve? Even if the point is for them to do it again at Survivor Series, they couldn't have just had the match end normally to build it up for the next ppv?

I guess it was an OMG factor, but I mean most people remember Lesnar and Show doing it before. It really made the Del Rio/Cena last man standing better though. It was a great fight and it started in a ring with no ropes and turnbuckles fallen over. Pretty cool.

[Crazysilver03]

After the CM Punk and HHH COO storylines, the WWE has unsurprisingly dropped the ball again. The worst part of all of this is that CM Punk is simply bouncing around from feud to feud with no real conclusion to any of them. To lose to Miz/Truth, but suddenly drop it to move back to the WHC? The fact that Miz/Truth moved from HHH/Punk to Cena in one show?

The whole Kevin Nash storyline could have been done so much better, but they took it the worst possible way. Plus, Johnny Ace needs to go.

[Crazysilver03]

I guess it was an OMG factor, but I mean most people remember Lesnar and Show doing it before. It really made the Del Rio/Cena last man standing better though. It was a great fight and it started in a ring with no ropes and turnbuckles fallen over. Pretty cool.

It drove me nuts watching RAW last night and when Lawler was saying that that had never happened before.

[Dipper9]

I guess it was an OMG factor, but I mean most people remember Lesnar and Show doing it before. It really made the Del Rio/Cena last man standing better though. It was a great fight and it started in a ring with no ropes and turnbuckles fallen over. Pretty cool.

They booked themselves into a match that no one could lose. Mark Henry is the new dominating champion, and Show just came back as the fired up Avenger. Neither guy could lose, and instead of doing a lame DQ or double count out or whatever, they did the ring break spot that hadn't been done in a while. Makes sense to me, and like you said, it added a unique flavor to the Cena vs Del Rio match.

[adamwolff11]

I'd like to recommend to any of you looking for an EXCELLENT dvd/Blu Ray purchase, to get the new Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart dvd. I would actually suggest getting the Blu Ray if you have a player, it comes with some extra footage on the 3rd disc.

The first disc is a 2 hour long interview, conducted by Jim Ross, with Bret and Shawn sitting together, where they very candidly walk you through their careers, leading up to and through all the many problems they had, with obviously a huge focus on the Montreal Screwjob. Both guys are very emotional at times. Discs 2 and 3 have matches featuring the two against one another from various points of their careers, as well as each man's HOF induction. I haven't gotten to the matches yet, but in all honesty, the interview was worth the price of the purchase.

Here's a link if anyone's interested: http://www.amazon.com/WWE-Greatest-Rivalries-Shawn-Michaels/dp/B005BYBZCM/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1319682139&sr=1-2

[ChaosLex]

News: Barry Windham near death. :(

http://www.prowrestling.net/artman/publish/WWE/article10021508.shtml

[Dipper9]

I'd like to recommend to any of you looking for an EXCELLENT dvd/Blu Ray purchase, to get the new Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart dvd. I would actually suggest getting the Blu Ray if you have a player, it comes with some extra footage on the 3rd disc.

The first disc is a 2 hour long interview, conducted by Jim Ross, with Bret and Shawn sitting together, where they very candidly walk you through their careers, leading up to and through all the many problems they had, with obviously a huge focus on the Montreal Screwjob. Both guys are very emotional at times. Discs 2 and 3 have matches featuring the two against one another from various points of their careers, as well as each man's HOF induction. I haven't gotten to the matches yet, but in all honesty, the interview was worth the price of the purchase.

Here's a link if anyone's interested: http://www.amazon.com/WWE-Greatest-Rivalries-Shawn-Michaels/dp/B005BYBZCM/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1319682139&sr=1-2

I'd like to eventually see the interview, but in the meantime, is there anything in there we didn't already know?

[adamwolff11]

I'd like to eventually see the interview, but in the meantime, is there anything in there we didn't already know?

Shawn goes through the day leading up to the Montreal Screwjob pretty in depth. He talks about the conversations he had with Vince and HHH, and how it was basically HHH who came with the plan of screwing Bret. I wouldn't necessarily say anything is groundbreaking, but for me personally it was really interesting to see how these two started out as pretty close friends, started to grow apart, ended up not really liking each other too much, then the Montreal event. They also discuss their reconciliation. Both of them were near or in tears talking about this, about how much they both needed it.

Shawn has become a very religious man and seems to be able to realize that he was a cocky dbag, particularly whenever he was blowing up in the mid-late 90s. Both of them reflecting on their careers and in particular, how their careers were intertwined, was just awesome to me.

[Dipper9]

Shawn goes through the day leading up to the Montreal Screwjob pretty in depth. He talks about the conversations he had with Vince and HHH, and how it was basically HHH who came with the plan of screwing Bret. I wouldn't necessarily say anything is groundbreaking, but for me personally it was really interesting to see how these two started out as pretty close friends, started to grow apart, ended up not really liking each other too much, then the Montreal event. They also discuss their reconciliation. Both of them were near or in tears talking about this, about how much they both needed it.

Shawn has become a very religious man and seems to be able to realize that he was a cocky dbag, particularly whenever he was blowing up in the mid-late 90s. Both of them reflecting on their careers and in particular, how their careers were intertwined, was just awesome to me.

Sounds really good. I'm gonna have to check this out. I'm always a sucker for a tear jerker, and these guys were two of the best in ring performers for a very long time.

[MikeAD]

I'd like to eventually see the interview, but in the meantime, is there anything in there we didn't already know?

Apparently they discuss that Michaels asked Bret Hart to join Hall, Nash, HHH, and HBK when they were forming the behind the scenes "klique" and after a few conversations Hart didn't like that big players would only look out for themselves. Could be old news though.

[Dipper9]

Apparently they discuss that Michaels asked Bret Hart to join Hall, Nash, HHH, and HBK when they were forming the behind the scenes "klique" and after a few conversations Hart didn't like that big players would only look out for themselves. Could be old news though.

I did not know this.

[Skeletor]

Apparently they discuss that Michaels asked Bret Hart to join Hall, Nash, HHH, and HBK when they were forming the behind the scenes "klique" and after a few conversations Hart didn't like that big players would only look out for themselves. Could be old news though.

Bret talks about this in his book a little. Best wrestling book I've ever read, by the way.

[adamwolff11]

Sounds really good. I'm gonna have to check this out. I'm always a sucker for a tear jerker, and these guys were two of the best in ring performers for a very long time.

They really were. It's amazing to me to watch how flawless most of their matches were. They were also #1 and #2 for me, with Bret being my favorite.

I mean, just legitimately watch this match. Their Iron man match from Wrestlemani XII. Just impressive wrestling skills that you really don't see much any more. Bret said in the dvd that this match was amazing, in that for 60 minutes, the match went nearly EXACTLY how the planned it.

http://youtu.be/oS3U1zIw86w

[Greg Pappas]

Reposting my lost post... The Muppets being added to the Raw show this past Monday was a terrible decision for the WWE. I was very disappointed that they are becoming a joke of an organization. Sad.

[MikeAD]

Reposting my lost post... The Muppets being added to the Raw show this past Monday was a terrible decision for the WWE. I was very disappointed that they are becoming a joke of an organization. Sad.

I think I posted something like "meh, the Muppets are popular, WWE has continually been trying to reach out to a mainstream audience, I found it pretty entertaining."

There was also some discussion on the Rock and Cena (hell turn) that got deleted when the site went down. Cena vs. Rock is huge. Its big. It will bring in casual fans at least once. I know many are growing tired (or long ago did) of John Cena, but its only because the company has had only him for the most part over the past several years. Orton, Edge, all of these guys are great, but he is the only person on the same page as Hogan and Rock/Austin (all things considered). Sure there has been HBK, HHH, and Undertaker but all of them have been part time.

While Cena vs. Rock is huge, and will be huge, a Cena heel turn would really turn the world over. It would be as big (when you consider today's universe) as Hogan turning on Savage et al and joining the NWO. The WWE would never let it happen but it would be epic. It would allow Punk or Orton or whoever gets the lead role against him to potentially jump into that elite category that so few entertainers get to be. It would also just shake up the whole company. As smart as Vince is I just can't believe that hes refused to do this. I know that Cena is their draw, and he is their marketing piece, but they could really change the way things work, I think they could make that merchandise up, and its not like his new stuff wouldn't sell.

[Greg Pappas]

There was also some discussion on the Rock and Cena (hell turn) that got deleted when the site went down. Cena vs. Rock is huge. Its big. It will bring in casual fans at least once. I know many are growing tired (or long ago did) of John Cena, but its only because the company has had only him for the most part over the past several years. Orton, Edge, all of these guys are great, but he is the only person on the same page as Hogan and Rock/Austin (all things considered). Sure there has been HBK, HHH, and Undertaker but all of them have been part time.

While Cena vs. Rock is huge, and will be huge, a Cena heel turn would really turn the world over. It would be as big (when you consider today's universe) as Hogan turning on Savage et al and joining the NWO. The WWE would never let it happen but it would be epic. It would allow Punk or Orton or whoever gets the lead role against him to potentially jump into that elite category that so few entertainers get to be. It would also just shake up the whole company. As smart as Vince is I just can't believe that hes refused to do this. I know that Cena is their draw, and he is their marketing piece, but they could really change the way things work, I think they could make that merchandise up, and its not like his new stuff wouldn't sell.

Cena turning heel would bring me back to caring again... I agree with you that it NEEDS to happen. :)

[Sports Guy]

Making Cena a heel is the only thing that makes sense.

My guess is some angle will be done where, no matter what the outcome is, Cena will turn heel because everyone will like The Rock better and he will play the card of, "i have been here, he left you and you boo him and cheer for me", etc....

[ShaneDawg85]

I thought the Muppets on RAW was stupid, and it still kind of is, up until I saw the replay last night on Smackdown where Kermit did an impression of The Rock, complete with vocal elongation of the word smell. That had me laughing pretty hard.

[ccbird]

Besides the obvious things already mentioned like fan popularity and merchandise sales the reason I don;t see a Cena heel turn is because he truly believes in what he is doing as a face and a positive role model. Yeah, Hogan had his whole say your prayers, take your vitamins thing back in the 80's as the super face but it was clearly shtick. You knew Hulk Hogan was a character. For better or worse, Cena is Cena. I think he truly believes in his motto and is true to himself which I actually respect. I just think he would personally fight the heel turn even if thats what the writers wanted to do.

[Dipper9]

Well, tonight is the three hour RAW with the Rock in the house, and probably the return of Mick Foley. Should be interesting if nothing else.

[Dipper9]

Okay...gonna make a call here,

Tonight, during the Michael Cole challenge, either Foley or the Rock himself will come out to stand up for JR and layeth the smacketh down on Cole's candy ass.

At least, that's what I hope for because I can't stands any more of Michael Cole!

[Sports Guy]

JEricho announces on his twitter that he will never wrestle for WWE again.

[Dipper9]

JEricho announces on his twitter that he will never wrestle for WWE again.

Yeah, and now everybody is speculating that he used the word "wrestle" which the WWE now calls "entertain." Jericho likes to screw with the internet, so there is no telling what this is about. If I had to guess, I'd say he's back in time to set up a Mania match.

[ShaneDawg85]

Thankfully I missed the first part of the promo with Foley in the ring, because what I did saw was 15-20 minutes of my life I will never get back. Having ancient Mick Foley with boring and drab John Cena does not make for entertainment, no matter how hard they try.

[Dipper9]

That was the worst episode of RAW I have seen in some time, and that's saying something. Not even the Rock could save the show. Absolute SUCK from start to finish.

[Sports Guy]

WWE has a major problem right now.

They have no idea what they are doing right now.

The storylines blow.

They have to turn Cena heel. I wonder if they had his dad come out and bash the crowd to start dropping some hints?

Turn him heel and put him in charge of a stable.

[adamwolff11]

WWE has a major problem right now.

They have no idea what they are doing right now.

The storylines blow.

They have to turn Cena heel. I wonder if they had his dad come out and bash the crowd to start dropping some hints?

Turn him heel and put him in charge of a stable.

Yeah, it seriously is necessary. It wouldn't be a difficult thing to do either. He's Mr. Take your vitamins, be a good person, blah blah, and he gets booed like crazy. He could very easily do like Bret Hart did, act betrayed by the fans and turn on them. Cena is already HATED by a lot of WWE fans, he would make for an excellent heel.

I'd say I don't think it could ever happen, but I would have said the same thing about Hogan. Then again, it wasn't Vince who had the stones to turn his biggest face of all time heel.

The Rock really does need to make a full time return. He's so good in every single way.

[ShaneDawg85]

People want to slag on the lack of stars, but that's only a problem if you care about that kind of thing. They have some good guys in there, but a big problem is that some of them have zero personality, and the writing is so awful that it makes the problem worse. I seriously think there's better writing on the Jersey Shore than what goes on with WWE these days. But, that whole segment with Foley and Cena last night still has me wanting minutes of my life back. Who could possibly have sat there and said that segment, from a writing and execution standpoint, was a good idea? I get the crowds cheer at nothing these days and understand nothing of wrestling history, but you still have to give them something to cheer about. If they're going to throw out guys with no personalities, you have to give them good material to go with, and right now that just doesn't exist.

[Sports Guy]

People want to slag on the lack of stars, but that's only a problem if you care about that kind of thing. They have some good guys in there, but a big problem is that some of them have zero personality, and the writing is so awful that it makes the problem worse. I seriously think there's better writing on the Jersey Shore than what goes on with WWE these days. But, that whole segment with Foley and Cena last night still has me wanting minutes of my life back. Who could possibly have sat there and said that segment, from a writing and execution standpoint, was a good idea? I get the crowds cheer at nothing these days and understand nothing of wrestling history, but you still have to give them something to cheer about. If they're going to throw out guys with no personalities, you have to give them good material to go with, and right now that just doesn't exist.I think even Cena felt it was poor...legitimately.

[ShaneDawg85]

I think even Cena felt it was poor...legitimately.

The look on his face suggested he couldn't wait to get out of there. It really was a made for tv train wreck.

[Greg Pappas]

I agree that the WWE has been simply bad. I have liked the Mark Henry push, but hate what they're doing with Punk. Cena desperately needs to turn heel, and the WWE needs to do a far better job of not making their secondary stars look weak. Sad.

[Dipper9]

I love Mick Foley, but admittedly do not watch TNA, so if THIS is what has become of the once great Mick Foley, then please get him off tv.

Michael Cole is absolutely brutal. I can't take it anymore. I thought that Punk was gonna come out and finish him for good. No such luck.

Punk was the best thing to come along in ages this past summer, and they blew it completely by turning him face. He's not even the Stone Cold kind of face anymore...he's just a wave to the crowd, play for cheers, straight face.

As stated above, Vince will not turn Cena for the same reason he didn't turn Hogan. Hulk was getting booed at the end of his initial WWF run, and yet Vince wouldn't turn him. Had Vince turned Hogan before letting him walk to WCW, things could have ended up much differently. He needs to learn from his past mistakes rather than repeating them with Cena. (Vince sounds more and more like Peter Angelos every time I bring him up.)

The product has just become stale and boring. There are too many PPV's. They need to go back to just the big ones. And they need to return to making them unique. The Rumble hasn't changed, thank God, but Survivor Series has ONE traditional SS match. The whole event needs to be SS elimination matches. That's when the SS was fun. You have Mania and SummerSlam for your two Mega-Events. SS and Rumble should remain unique. Its just too much of the sos week after week after week. Its boring.

Bring back tag teams. Let guys have long matches on TV. Stop with the wasted segments. Just stop being boring. Last night I kept flipping between Raw and MNF. The better the MNF games get, the less I will be watching wrestling. Until they start exciting me again, there is no reason to watch.

[Sports Guy]

Oh yea, the whole Michael Cole stuff is terrible. Why they are giving him so much weight is beyond me.

I remember when they got rid of Jim Ross, they didn't like that he was becoming bigger than the superstars. Well, they are almost trying to do the same thing with Cole.

BTW, Truth and Miz suck too...they shouldn't be main eventers, especially Truth.

They need to push Mason Ryan more but they made him a face too quickly.

[MikeAD]

Oh yea, the whole Michael Cole stuff is terrible. Why they are giving him so much weight is beyond me.

I remember when they got rid of Jim Ross, they didn't like that he was becoming bigger than the superstars. Well, they are almost trying to do the same thing with Cole.

BTW, Truth and Miz suck too...they shouldn't be main eventers, especially Truth.

They need to push Mason Ryan more but they made him a face too quickly.


And when Nash came out who even remembers that storyline?

What a joke everything is right now.

[ShaneDawg85]

There really needs to be a second major, or at the very least competitive, wrestling promoter. When they had competition from WCW and ECW they had to step up their game, think outside of the box, and most importantly, develop GOOD DIALOGUE. However, such a thing doesn't exist, and right now there's no incentive for WWE to change. Why should they? It's not like losing a few fans here or there is going to make a difference because there's no viable alternative. You're certainly not going to get it from TNA, since they're so busy trying to rehash WCW and drive themselves out of business.

[Greg Pappas]

There really needs to be a second major, or at the very least competitive, wrestling promoter. When they had competition from WCW and ECW they had to step up their game, think outside of the box, and most importantly, develop GOOD DIALOGUE. However, such a thing doesn't exist, and right now there's no incentive for WWE to change. Why should they? It's not like losing a few fans here or there is going to make a difference because there's no viable alternative. You're certainly not going to get it from TNA, since they're so busy trying to rehash WCW and drive themselves out of business.

Agreed... I really didn't like WcW, but at least they stood up to and even were beating the WWF/E in ratings at one time. I don't see it happening though. :(

[Greg Pappas]

I would like to add that I personally believe that Pro Wrestling/Entertainment will begin a steady decline in ratings and popularity. I think that the glory days have come and gone, although I think it'll remain popular enough to remain solid for another decade or so, before an eventual fade into 'relative' obscurity.

Anyone getting SS tomorrow? I'm not, just curious.

[Skeletor]

I would like to add that I personally believe that Pro Wrestling/Entertainment will begin a steady decline in ratings and popularity. I think that the glory days have come and gone, although I think it'll remain popular enough to remain solid for another decade or so, before an eventual fade into 'relative' obscurity.

Anyone getting SS tomorrow? I'm not, just curious.

Pro wrestling sucks now, without a doubt. But that's wrestling for you. It may well drop into irrelevance, but it will bounce back. Someone will come up with an idea and someone will have the balls to implement it and wrestling will make a comeback.

[Sports Guy]

I would like to add that I personally believe that Pro Wrestling/Entertainment will begin a steady decline in ratings and popularity. I think that the glory days have come and gone, although I think it'll remain popular enough to remain solid for another decade or so, before an eventual fade into 'relative' obscurity.

Anyone getting SS tomorrow? I'm not, just curious.I'm not..I usually like to get the bigger PPVs but haven't recently because of the decline of the product. I still watch Raw but I just can't justify spending the 50 bucks on the PPVs.

[ccbird]

I would like to add that I personally believe that Pro Wrestling/Entertainment will begin a steady decline in ratings and popularity. I think that the glory days have come and gone, although I think it'll remain popular enough to remain solid for another decade or so, before an eventual fade into 'relative' obscurity.

Anyone getting SS tomorrow? I'm not, just curious.

Tonights UFCs card was the prime example why Pro Wrestling is in decline. You had all the drama of a wrestling match except it's not scripted. They are really fighting. There will always be a market for pro wrestling and will always have its ups and downs but it'll never reach the level it was in the '80s and '90s.

[Dipper9]

I'm not..I usually like to get the bigger PPVs but haven't recently because of the decline of the product. I still watch Raw but I just can't justify spending the 50 bucks on the PPVs.

I haven't bought a PPV in YEARS. In fact, the last one I have even seen start to finish was Mania 15 when I attended it live in Philly. It sure didn't have that Mania feel that I had expected it to have.

In recent years, I have really tried to get pumped up enough to buy a WrestleMania PPV, but there just hasn't been enough to lore me in. With Rock vs Cena headlining this years, I am intrigued, but they are gonna need more. I'll need Taker in a streak match with some legit chance of losing. I'll need Jericho back (I know, he's me Tex!) in some capacity. I'll need some real good matches to gain my interest. The way the product has been, its just not worth it to fork over that much money for a wrestling PPV where you get many of the same matches on free tv.

The one event that REALLY temps me every year is the Royal Rumble. I love the concept of the match. Its fun. And its usually the one event all year where you really don't know who's gonna win. We'll see if I finally give in to temptation this year? I doubt it, since its playoff football time.

[Greg Pappas]

I haven't bought a PPV in YEARS. In fact, the last one I have even seen start to finish was Mania 15 when I attended it live in Philly. It sure didn't have that Mania feel that I had expected it to have.

In recent years, I have really tried to get pumped up enough to buy a WrestleMania PPV, but there just hasn't been enough to lore me in. With Rock vs Cena headlining this years, I am intrigued, but they are gonna need more. I'll need Taker in a streak match with some legit chance of losing. I'll need Jericho back (I know, he's me Tex!) in some capacity. I'll need some real good matches to gain my interest. The way the product has been, its just not worth it to fork over that much money for a wrestling PPV where you get many of the same matches on free tv.

The one event that REALLY temps me every year is the Royal Rumble. I love the concept of the match. Its fun. And its usually the one event all year where you really don't know who's gonna win. We'll see if I finally give in to temptation this year? I doubt it, since its playoff football time.

Good points all... and I agree about the Rumble. It had been my favorite event from its inception, as the intrigue about who was next out of the curtain and seeing bad guys battling bad guys and good guys battling good guys was so uncommon that it was a blast.

It was a great concept, but as usual, the WWE started screwing around with it and told everyone who'd be #s 1 and 30 in advance... ugh!

[Dipper9]

Good points all... and I agree about the Rumble. It had been my favorite event from its inception, as the intrigue about who was next out of the curtain and seeing bad guys battling bad guys and good guys battling good guys was so uncommon that it was a blast.

It was a great concept, but as usual, the WWE started screwing around with it and told everyone who'd be #s 1 and 30 in advance... ugh!

Best surprise ever....Demolition music starts for entrant #1. He waits in the ring, and....Demolition music starts for his tag partner for entrant number two. They take it to each other, then team up to kick ass! Great stuff.

Of course, that was 20 years ago!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVMjhEIBzK4&feature=player_detailpage

[ShaneDawg85]

I did not watch, but from WWE's website I see that CM Punk won the WWE Championship against Del Rio. I've little knowledge of his career, but from what I've seen so far I'm glad that they finally put the belt back on him, and I hope they do not take it off of him for a few months. Please, WWE, I beg of you, do not let Del Rio near the title again. He is awful on the mic, boring in the ring, and his character is nothing more than a cheap imitation of Ted Dibiase. They have something in Punk, and they've missed the boat on him numerous times the last few months. Please, put this guy over to the roof!

[Dipper9]

I did not watch, but from WWE's website I see that CM Punk won the WWE Championship against Del Rio. I've little knowledge of his career, but from what I've seen so far I'm glad that they finally put the belt back on him, and I hope they do not take it off of him for a few months. Please, WWE, I beg of you, do not let Del Rio near the title again. He is awful on the mic, boring in the ring, and his character is nothing more than a cheap imitation of Ted Dibiase. They have something in Punk, and they've missed the boat on him numerous times the last few months. Please, put this guy over to the roof!

I agree with everything you say here. Punk needs a good long run with the strap. Let him keep beating everyone until the surprise entrant wins the Rumble and stakes claim to that "greatest wrestler in the world" moniker....yeah I'm talking about Jericho, who else? lol

As for Del Rio, he is a good mid level to sometimes main event talent, but I would keep the main belt away from him for a while. His time as champion was awful. They also need to find something to do with Cena for the next 5 months to keep him away from the title picture.

[ShaneDawg85]

I agree with everything you say here. Punk needs a good long run with the strap. Let him keep beating everyone until the surprise entrant wins the Rumble and stakes claim to that "greatest wrestler in the world" moniker....yeah I'm talking about Jericho, who else? lol

As for Del Rio, he is a good mid level to sometimes main event talent, but I would keep the main belt away from him for a while. His time as champion was awful. They also need to find something to do with Cena for the next 5 months to keep him away from the title picture.

The only way to make the buzz for Cena vs. Rock at Mania is to have Cena holding the title. Unless Rock commits to being with the company for a year or two, which I don't think he has or don't think he will, such a thing won't happen. But, even the prospect of Rock winning the gold at Mania, even if it means Cena winning it yet again, would definitely make more casual fans that aren't smart enough to know how it ends more interested in viewing it.

[MikeAD]

I have read the results from SS last night....yawn.

I watched two matches. The Mark Henry vs Big Show match was great, well done, two professionals. The Rock/Cena vs Awesome Truth match.....boring. Rock kicked tail, finally lets Cena in the ring, he whoops up and then gets beat up, then rock comes in and cleans up and wins. Rock gives Cena the Rock Bottom to end the show. So pointless. No storylines were advanced, and what the heck is going on with the Nash/Triple H situation or with the Miz and R Truth? Where can that storyline go? I thought for sure someone would make a run-in and further that storyline...

And its good that Punk has the belt again but if the past 4-5 years are any indication, he will lose it soon. The titles change hands so many times, I mean Orton has won the belt 9 times and Cena has held it 12 times. Thats absurd. They switch the belt back and forth with such frequency, remember when being a 4 or 5 time champ was HUGE?

And where does it go for Punk? Who will he feud with? Are they going to keep a feud that came from nowhere in Del Rio?

I just can't believe there is absolutely nothing going on right now in the WWE. The direction is awful. I have always watched the post-attitude era with low expectations but this is a bit silly.