Tennis

[McNulty]

Anybody watch Tennis? I usually get into the majors. I especially dig the Australian Open since I'm usually up all night anyway.

[glenn__davis]

Love tennis, and as a night owl I love the Aussie Open. Unfortunately, we cut the cable cord about 6 months ago so I can't watch it this year.

If I ever sat and made a sports bucket list, the Australian Open would be on it.

[DuffMan]

Didn't see the match but Djokovic just beat Nadal in the 3rd straight final at a Major! This one lasting almost 6 hours, they are saying it may have been even better than the Nadal/Federrer match at Wimbledon a couple of years ago. Pretty impressive win for DJokovic considering he was coming off a 5 hour semifinal match against Murray!

[Sports Guy]

I saw the ending of the Nadal/Djokovic match.

Man, what a match.

Can you imagine playing for 6 hours? Wow.

[ccbird]

Watched it all but IMO didn't top Federer- Nadal from Wimbledon. Last 2 sets were amazing stuff but just not as consistently good throughout the whole match like Fed- Nadal.

I'll say this, I'm not particularly a Djoker fan but that man is amazing. Just so mentally tough and physically is a beast as well. Consider he played Murray in a 5 hour semis match and he was able to come back 2 days later and take out Nadal, the guy who thrives in long grueling physical matches, in a 6 hour match. Amazing stuff. Note that Nadal had also had an extra day off as well. If Nadal couldn't get him in this final it's hard to see him getting him at all, even on clay at the French. Djoker owns Nadal as much as Nadal owns Federer.

[McNulty]

I still say Roddick/Federer was a better match than Nadal/Fed. I'm not sure why everyone forgets that one.

[Sports Guy]

Watched it all but IMO didn't top Federer- Nadal from Wimbledon. Last 2 sets were amazing stuff but just not as consistently good throughout the whole match like Fed- Nadal.

I'll say this, I'm not particularly a Djoker fan but that man is amazing. Just so mentally tough and physically is a beast as well. Consider he played Murray in a 5 hour semis match and he was able to come back 2 days later and take out Nadal, the guy who thrives in long grueling physical matches, in a 6 hour match. Amazing stuff. Note that Nadal had also had an extra day off as well. If Nadal couldn't get him in this final it's hard to see him getting him at all, even on clay at the French. Djoker owns Nadal as much as Nadal owns Federer.I hate these comps.

Nadal came into his prime as Fed was out of his...I would expect the younger, more in prime player to beat the older, just out of his prime player.

Djokovic has become a beast but it has also come at a time where Federer is near the end of his rope and Nadal is constantly battling knee injuries.

A few years ago, he couldn't do much against Nadal and Fed.(Nadal is still 16-14 vs him in their careers and that's with Novak "owning him" the last year or so.)

[DuffMan]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7518166/the-epic-warfare-rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic-australian-open-final

[Nigel Tufnel]

I hate these comps.

Nadal came into his prime as Fed was out of his...I would expect the younger, more in prime player to beat the older, just out of his prime player.

Djokovic has become a beast but it has also come at a time where Federer is near the end of his rope and Nadal is constantly battling knee injuries.

A few years ago, he couldn't do much against Nadal and Fed.(Nadal is still 16-14 vs him in their careers and that's with Novak "owning him" the last year or so.)

Yeah, I agree. I think it's fair to say that Nadal has always owned Federer on clay, but in Federer's prime, that's mostly the only surface they played on. At that time, Nadal wasn't good enough on other surfaces to get to the point in the tournament where he'd play Federer. Even now, they've played 27 times, and 14 of those meetings have been on clay. Nadal leads the series 18-9, but he's 12-2 on clay and 6-7 on other surfaces.

[DuffMan]

I hate these comps.
Nadal came into his prime as Fed was out of his...I would expect the younger, more in prime player to beat the older, just out of his prime player.
Djokovic has become a beast but it has also come at a time where Federer is near the end of his rope and Nadal is constantly battling knee injuries.
A few years ago, he couldn't do much against Nadal and Fed.(Nadal is still 16-14 vs him in their careers and that's with Novak "owning him" the last year or so.)

To be fear Novak has won 7 straight against Nadal including the last 3 finals in Majors, both are fantastic players but Novak clearly has had the edge recently. Nadal (25) is only a year older than Djokovic (24) and yes he's had some knee problems, but both players should be considered to be in their primes. At 30 years old I wonder if Roger is done winning majors. Since the start of the 2005 calendar year there have been only 2 majors not won by the big three. It will be interesting to follow seeing who winds up with the most majors when all is said and done.

Australian French Wimbeldon U.S. Open
2005: Safin Nadal Federer Federer
2006: Federer Nadal Federer Federer
2007: Federer Nadal Federer Federer
2008: Djojovic Nadal Nadal Federer
2009: Nadal Federer Federer Del Potro
2010: Federer Nadal Nadal Nadal
2011: Djokovic Nadal Djokovic Djokovic
2012: Djokovic

[mweb]

Yeah, I agree. I think it's fair to say that Nadal has always owned Federer on clay, but in Federer's prime, that's mostly the only surface they played on. At that time, Nadal wasn't good enough on other surfaces to get to the point in the tournament where he'd play Federer. Even now, they've played 27 times, and 14 of those meetings have been on clay. Nadal leads the series 18-9, but he's 12-2 on clay and 6-7 on other surfaces.

Exactly! It amazes me how people fail to acknowledge this when they're talking about their rivalry. Now it's to the point where some are saying Fed can't be considered the best ever because he wasn't he the best in his era and/or his rival owned him. Just wrong.

[McNulty]

I hate these comps.

Nadal came into his prime as Fed was out of his...I would expect the younger, more in prime player to beat the older, just out of his prime player.

Djokovic has become a beast but it has also come at a time where Federer is near the end of his rope and Nadal is constantly battling knee injuries.

A few years ago, he couldn't do much against Nadal and Fed.(Nadal is still 16-14 vs him in their careers and that's with Novak "owning him" the last year or so.)

This is inaccurate. Djokovic's game these days gives Nadal tons of problems. Nadal's game gives Federer problems too. The only way Nadal can beat Joker is to have his first serve working really well. It hasn't been doing that for a year now. Look up the speeds, first serve % and % of first serve points won. Another example - Nadal hits some balls that need to be returned from a very high strike point. Federer struggles with it, Djokovic excels at it. Djokovic's serve gives Nadal all sorts of fits.

Nadal on the other hand runs down tons of balls that normal Fed opponents don't get to. I agree the comp is lazy, but there are natural matchup problems that exist. Nadal is adapting to Djokovic and came REAL close to breaking through this time. The real test will be on clay, where Nadal has a decided advantage.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Exactly! It amazes me how people fail to acknowledge this when they're talking about their rivalry. Now it's to the point where some are saying Fed can't be considered the best ever because he wasn't he the best in his era and/or his rival owned him. Just wrong.

I guess I can see why people say that, because on the surface it's exactly what happened - every time they played, even in Federer's absolute prime and especially in majors, Nadal seemed to win. You have to look a little closer to realize that in the early years, just about all of Nadal's big wins were on clay. And it's also hard to accept that you're past your prime at age 27, even though in tennis you absolutely are.

This really is a great time in men's tennis, though, with Nadal and Djokovic at their peaks, Federer in his "still" phase, and Murray, even though he's only 4th best, good enough to beat any of the top 3 guys.

[mweb]

I guess I can see why people say that, because on the surface it's exactly what happened - every time they played, even in Federer's absolute prime and especially in majors, Nadal seemed to win. You have to look a little closer to realize that in the early years, just about all of Nadal's big wins were on clay. And it's also hard to accept that you're past your prime at age 27, even though in tennis you absolutely are.

This really is a great time in men's tennis, though, with Nadal and Djokovic at their peaks, Federer in his "still" phase, and Murray, even though he's only 4th best, good enough to beat any of the top 3 guys.

I can why they say that, but I think it's lazy thinking.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I can why they say that, but I think it's lazy thinking.

I agree - to correctly judge it you have to think about the things that weren't happening (meeting on surfaces other than clay) and not just the things that were (Nadal winning on clay).

[ccbird]

To be fear Novak has won 7 straight against Nadal including the last 3 finals in Majors, both are fantastic players but Novak clearly has had the edge recently. Nadal (25) is only a year older than Djokovic (24) and yes he's had some knee problems, but both players should be considered to be in their primes. At 30 years old I wonder if Roger is done winning majors. Since the start of the 2005 calendar year there have been only 2 majors not won by the big three. It will be interesting to follow seeing who winds up with the most majors when all is said and done.

Australian French Wimbeldon U.S. Open
2005: Safin Nadal Federer Federer
2006: Federer Nadal Federer Federer
2007: Federer Nadal Federer Federer
2008: Djojovic Nadal Nadal Federer
2009: Nadal Federer Federer Del Potro
2010: Federer Nadal Nadal Nadal
2011: Djokovic Nadal Djokovic Djokovic
2012: Djokovic
Thank You. Djoker is 1 year younger than Nadal. Nadal owned him for the first 5 years of their career. Nadal is still very much in his prime. He's made the Finals of the last 4 Grand Slams and 7 of the last 8, winning 4 of them. Djoker has just turned it around because he can match Nadal's fitness and physical and mental toughness now. BTW... Fed is generally pretty darn competitive against a dominant Djoker. He beat him at the French last year and had 2 Match points against him at the US Open in September. I actually think Fed would have had a great shot to beat Djoker if he had made it to the Finals. Tennis is a game about matchups much like football. Nadal's game matches up real well with Fed's while Djoker's matches up real well with Nadal. It's not hyperbole to claim one player owns another.



As far as Nadal- Fed. Yes, much of Nadal's early success against Fed was on clay but as he progressively got better on other surfaces, first grass and then hardcourts, he closed that gap and eventually overtook Fed on those surfaces as well. At least in the big, outdoor tournaments. When was the last time Fed beat Nadal in any outdoor tourny?? I don't keep up with all the Masters tournys but I would guess it's very rare. Sure, you have more of a claim that Fed was moving out of his prime and Nadal moving into his but Fed was and is still playing at an exceptionally high level.


All of that said Fed still has an absolute lock on the GOAT right now. 17 GSs and he's still playing at a high level at 30 yrs old. I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say Nadal and Djoker won't have that longevity. The great thing about Fed is how easy it all is for him. He's a graceful shotmaker. His pure skills will be hard to ever match. I love Nadal but he's a physical grinder. Nowhere near the shotmaker of Fed. Sampras was backed by the huge serve. Pretty much only above average at everything else. If he was playing in this era with these guys who could run and return serve he wouldn't have been anywhere near as dominant as he was in the 90's.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Wow, Nadal just lost in the 2nd round of Wimbledon to some guy I've never heard of. I guess that shakes things up a bit.

[McNulty]

Rosol looked like Federer at times today. He was killing those winners.

[Nigel Tufnel]

If I'm reading the draw correctly, that really benefits Murray and Tsonga. And it also really benefits Brian Baker, who now looks to have a decent chance to get to the quarters. Wow.

[waroriole]

Hank Hill is snickering at this thread.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Murray - Federer is a pretty interesting final.

On the one hand, you've got the greatest player that ever lived. But he's almost 31 and hasn't won a grand slam in over two years. This could be his last chance to tie Sampras with his 7th Wimbledon win.

And then you've got Murray. First British man to even get to the final since 1938. And he's coached by Lendl, a great player whose biggest professional regret is that he could never win Wimbledon.

Fantastic storyline. And the tennis probably won't be too bad, either.

[glenn__davis]

Can't ask for a much better final than that. That place is going to be going nuts on Sunday.

Not even really sure who I'll pull for. I'm a big Federer fan and would love to see him have a great moment or two as he begins the twilight of his career here. But certainly seeing Murray win would be awesome for the Brits.

It's a can't-lose, really.

[Hooded Viper]

I was born in Scotland and visit my Grandfather, Aunt, Uncle and cousin every other year! I love it there and will be rooting hard for Andy!

[Mashed Potatoes]

Murray is done, Federer just stepped up his game another level. Up 2 sets to 1 and up a break in the 4th.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Just saw this tweet from Brad Gilbert. Looks like Andy Roddick is retiring after the US Open. I guess Roddick will be remembered as kind of a disappointment, but he also had the misfortune to have his career basically completely overlap with Federer's.

Today's also Roddick's 30th birthday.


Brad Gilbert ‏@bgtennisnation
I am stunned Arod just anounced his retirement after the tourney

[bobmc]

Just saw this tweet from Brad Gilbert. Looks like Andy Roddick is retiring after the US Open. I guess Roddick will be remembered as kind of a disappointment, but he also had the misfortune to have his career basically completely overlap with Federer's.

Today's also Roddick's 30th birthday.

Virgo's dissappoint - well except for Cal.....