View Full Version : Jim Johnson 89-91 MPH today?
dan-O
03-22-2012, 04:34 PM
What's up with that, exactly? Has he been that low all spring, and is this just a result of being behind the rest of the pitchers? Doesn't sound right to me.
http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2012/03/chen-and-showalter-speak-after-11-1-victory.html
CA-ORIOLE
03-22-2012, 04:36 PM
What's up with that, exactly? Has he been that low all spring, and is this just a result of being behind the rest of the pitchers? Doesn't sound right to me.
http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2012/03/chen-and-showalter-speak-after-11-1-victory.html
I think he's had some back problems.
crowmst3k!
03-22-2012, 04:37 PM
I wonder if the Rangers will still give up Koji?
Gurgi
03-22-2012, 04:40 PM
Maybe he starts the year on the DL? I would rather keep one of our out of option guys for a couple of weeks if Johnson cant answer the bell opening day.
bengraver
03-22-2012, 04:46 PM
That's a good 5mph slower than his average last year: http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=3656&position=P&pitch=FA
Combined with his ERA this spring (and the thought of Gregg closing games), a bit alarming.
Can_of_corn
03-22-2012, 05:22 PM
I posted earlier today about his velocity being down all spring.
Tony-OH
03-22-2012, 05:24 PM
Something is certainly not right with him if he's throwing that low this late into spring training. Johnson needs to hard, sinking 95-96 fastball to be successful.
dan-O
03-22-2012, 06:14 PM
Something is certainly not right with him if he's throwing that low this late into spring training. Johnson needs to hard, sinking 95-96 fastball to be successful.
If his back is fine, his velocity should be fine. What's going on here? I love how Roch just gives this a one-sentence blurb in his post like it's no big deal. Um, hello.. :rolleyestf: this is pretty huge from our closer, and it's the first he's reported it.
Todd-O
03-22-2012, 07:47 PM
I would guess this is all related to his back... Would love to hear more info on this issue...
JJ threw more innings than just about any other reliever in the league last year. You got to wonder if that workload last year is having any effect on him this year.
dan-O
03-22-2012, 11:49 PM
I would guess this is all related to his back... Would love to hear more info on this issue...
Seriously... how is this the first I've heard about this? And why hasn't any O's beat reporter asked about this? This kind of thing frustratea me to no end. After all of the velocity issues with Matusz and Tillman, somehow JJ goes unnoticed or it's not thought to be a big deal.
I dunno, for whatever reason, I'm freaking about this.
CA-ORIOLE
03-23-2012, 12:04 AM
That's a good 5mph slower than his average last year: http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=3656&position=P&pitch=FA
His average changeup velocity was 88 last year.
Sanfran327
03-23-2012, 07:46 AM
In a wierd way, having some dinged-up regulars to start the season is a good thing for us. JJ is a known commodity and deserves to make the club, but if he has to start the season on the DL, that might give us some time to see some players play their way into a trade or off of the team by the time he's healthy. I don't think JJ's ailment is serious, which is why I can consider it to be somewhat of a good thing, because we need to find a place to put a lot of arms right now.
Frobby
03-23-2012, 08:06 AM
I'm not ready to get too worried about JJ's velocity. He's a bit behind schedule due to his back problem earlier this spring, and he's pitched a grand total of 4 innings. If he's still 89-91 by the end of next week, then I will be concerned. He did have a strikeout and a GIDP yesterday despite the lack of velocity.
dan-O
03-23-2012, 10:40 PM
http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120323&content_id=27539046&vkey=news_bal&c_id=bal
Leave it to Britt to at least get some information about this. She's making a case as the best Orioles beat reporter in quite some time. Except for going with "sync" over "sink". :o
Among the things gleaned from this article is that the back injury was around in December, keeping JJ from his normal off-season routine. Here's hoping his "when the lights come on" comment isn't as foreboding as when Mike Gonzalez said the same exact thing before his disastrous first season.
TheBee
03-23-2012, 11:18 PM
After reading the article, I personally believe him. I expect him to be his normal, nasty self.
dan-O
03-28-2012, 03:29 PM
Our closer is still 90-91 after today's performance, while giving up a walk and a single (no runs).
I'm panicking, but apparently no one else is. Including Roch, who has twice reported low velocity and twice said absolutely nothing else about it.
Frobby
03-28-2012, 03:37 PM
Last time out, he hit 93-94. Today, he mostly sat 91 but hit 92 at least once. Not too worried yet, but wondering about it.
dan-O
03-28-2012, 03:40 PM
Last time out, he hit 93-94. Today, he mostly sat 91 but hit 92 at least once. Not too worried yet, but wondering about it.
I just don't see how the back issue or limited innings causes a drop in velocity. Arrieta was 97MPH in his first outing, you know? It's got to be mechanics or arm problems. Hope I'm wrong.
Frobby
03-28-2012, 03:47 PM
I just don't see how the back issue or limited innings causes a drop in velocity. Arrieta was 97MPH in his first outing, you know? It's got to be mechanics or arm problems. Hope I'm wrong.
Every pitcher is different. I think you are right to have some concern, but until I am seeing the guy throw 91-92 in a real major league game, I am not going to go overboard.
dan-O
03-28-2012, 03:52 PM
Every pitcher is different. I think you are right to have some concern, but until I am seeing the guy throw 91-92 in a real major league game, I am not going to go overboard.
Just feels like Mike Gonzalez all over again. The one thing I'm taking solace in is the fact that the O's have been pretty good under Duquette/Peterson/Buck about getting everyone tested for injury when there's concern. So maybe they've got a handle on it.
Just feels like Mike Gonzalez all over again. The one thing I'm taking solace in is the fact that the O's have been pretty good under Duquette/Peterson/Buck about getting everyone tested for injury when there's concern. So maybe they've got a handle on it.
Arrieta, was doing a throwing program to pitch in a reunion before spring training that is why he came in with more arm speed. Pitchers normally don't just show up to spring training pitching at their top speed. It usually takes 3 weeks before they hit their top speeds are consistent throughout their games. Its something to keep an eye on but it is what it is.
socalbirdfan
03-28-2012, 05:05 PM
Not encouraging and what's our fallback position? Gregg, Lindstrom, Tillman?
Mayor McCheese
03-28-2012, 05:08 PM
Not encouraging and what's our fallback position? Gregg, Lindstrom, Tillman?
Whoever throws the hardest.... We can't allow Gregg to close games.... I like Lindstrom as a set up and Tillman to close if needed.
Tony-OH
03-28-2012, 05:16 PM
I would be lying if I said that I'm not concerned over this amount of significant velocity drop this late into spring training. We can only hope it comes back soon, but he needs to operate in the 94-97 MPH range.
My guess Lindstrom or "gulp" Gregg would get first chance at closing although I'd consider Strop or even Tillman before Gregg.
dan-O
03-28-2012, 08:00 PM
Eh, edited. Nevermind. Just going to wait and see about Jim Johnson. Hope it's nothing serious.
weams
03-30-2012, 08:02 AM
Jim Johnson
"They think I must have sat at 97 mph all day, which is never the case,"
"The one thing they forget is, velocity helps you get to the big leagues, but command makes you stay there. It's like the third important thing. It flip-flops. To get to the big leagues, velocity is important, then command, then movement. Or movement and then command. In the big leagues, to stay here, you've got to have location, movement and then velocity, in that order. I'm more concerned with other things than what the scoreboard says. I read the bats. That's the important part."
Sports Guy
03-30-2012, 08:32 AM
Jim Johnson
1) his velocity was very good last year.
2) increased velocity helps movement.
While I agree with what he is saying here, this is him covering up for something.
Frobby
03-30-2012, 09:10 AM
1) his velocity was very good last year.
2) increased velocity helps movement.
While I agree with what he is saying here, this is him covering up for something.
Yeah, maybe. He was 93-96 consistently last year.
Tony-OH
03-30-2012, 09:28 AM
1) his velocity was very good last year.
2) increased velocity helps movement.
While I agree with what he is saying here, this is him covering up for something.
Agreed. He had plenty of movement and command at 94-96 the last few years. He's not suddenly letting off for more movement. If he's 91-92, something is not right. Hopefully it'll come back of he better start throwing that changeup more and hope he can become Trevor Hoffman.
Todd-O
03-30-2012, 09:46 AM
I just don't see how the back issue or limited innings causes a drop in velocity. Arrieta was 97MPH in his first outing, you know? It's got to be mechanics or arm problems. Hope I'm wrong.
It's his lower back... Part of his core. Not only responsible for rotational strength, but connecting the power of the legs to the power of the upper half. Each to his own impact analysis, but it seems pretty obvious that this kind of tweak/injury could limit velocity and control.... Not to mention why taking it easy in an injured area like this would be more or less easing up on pitching power. If the guy is hurt.... The guy is hurt!! Last thing he wants to do is force his arm delivery motion to compensate for an injured back... Talk about introducing potential for shoulder injury.
Don Quixote
03-30-2012, 10:10 AM
I think this is where the weams quote came from (posted this morning)....
http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2012/03/jim-johnson-addresses-loaded-questions-about-the-radar-guns.html
Frobby
03-30-2012, 06:17 PM
JJ hit 93 today, but walked two guys with 2 outs in the 9th and then allowed a go-ahead triple. So much for velocity being the be-all, end-all. I liked the 1-2-3 inning he pitched last time at 91 mph better.
TheBee
03-30-2012, 06:30 PM
This is the one situation where I'm going to be the eternal optimist and believe (despite the current data) that Johnson will get the job done for us when it matters. I am admittedly basing this solely on past performance, hope in my favorite current Oriole, and my disdain for Kevin Gregg.
TheBee
04-01-2012, 09:59 AM
"Johnson walked a batter, struck out one and got two groundouts. He threw 19 pitches, 10 for strikes, and his fastball was clocked at 94, 95 mph."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-closer-jim-johnson-looks-good-in-second-consecutive-appearance-20120331,0,3569342.story
Frobby
04-01-2012, 11:37 AM
"Johnson walked a batter, struck out one and got two groundouts. He threw 19 pitches, 10 for strikes, and his fastball was clocked at 94, 95 mph."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-closer-jim-johnson-looks-good-in-second-consecutive-appearance-20120331,0,3569342.story
So much for that issue.
dan-O
04-01-2012, 05:14 PM
So much for that issue.
Seems to be getting better, at least. He should have more control and be able to touch 97, ideally. At least, that's what he showed last year. This latest outing did a lot to ease my concerns a bit, though.
TheBee
04-06-2012, 10:18 PM
So, he got the job done, kept the ball down, but was still sitting at 93/94. Still my favorite current Oriole...I believe, but I still wonder why he wasn't touching 95-97 when "the lights went on." Again, I liked the movement, and he got the job done. Just hoping all is well physically.
weams
04-06-2012, 11:13 PM
So, he got the job done, kept the ball down, but was still sitting at 93/94. Still my favorite current Oriole...I believe, but I still wonder why he wasn't touching 95-97 when "the lights went on." Again, I liked the movement, and he got the job done. Just hoping all is well physically.
Maybe at his new age, he doesn't throw that hard any more. The movement was sick as usual though.
lovetoaster
04-06-2012, 11:15 PM
Maybe at his new age, he doesn't throw that hard any more. The movement was sick as usual though.
The movement was ridiculous. And I think at least two of the balls to Valencia should have been strikes. The zone was small for that at bat.
Oriolidae85
04-07-2012, 12:51 AM
The movement was ridiculous. And I think at least two of the balls to Valencia should have been strikes. The zone was small for that at bat.
IMO, the umpire had trouble picking up the pitch...it moved so much it looked like both a strike and a ball.
CA-ORIOLE
04-07-2012, 01:22 AM
IMO, the umpire had trouble picking up the pitch...it moved so much it looked like both a strike and a ball.
Pitch fx had almost every pitch at or near the bottom of the strike zone. Pretty amazing he can do that so consistently with the movement he had on those 2 seamers. His changeup is just wicked.
wildcard
04-07-2012, 03:30 AM
Palmer said that Jim Johnson had been treated for a herniated disc early in camp. That was the first I had heard that. Before I just heard back problems. That is no doubt why his velocity is down. With the movement he is very effective any way.
scOtt
04-07-2012, 03:51 AM
Palmer said that Jim Johnson had been treated for a herniated disc early in camp. That was the first I had heard that. Before I just heard back problems. That is no doubt why his velocity is down. With the movement he is very effective any way.
I've said consistently that JJ is just a little behind time wise. Maybe two weeks behind everyone else. And today showed he is catching up very fast. The movement on his pitches was just... jaw-dropping.
And I thought I saw a 96 today (tonight's replay). To me it was like he had the movement if he threw a little softer. But if he needed it the heat was there.
Frobby
05-15-2012, 10:52 PM
Bump...anyone worried about JJ's velocity now? ;)
Catch 8
05-16-2012, 07:37 AM
Bump...anyone worried about JJ's velocity now? ;)
About as much as I'm concerned over Strop's. :2yay-thumb:
dan-O
05-16-2012, 09:37 AM
Bump...anyone worried about JJ's velocity now? ;)
Ha - I'll take this one on the chin and love it. This is probably my most knee jerk thread and sure enough, JJ has erased any concerns of an arm issue or any other type of injury.
He looks absolutely filthy.
Tony-OH
05-16-2012, 09:41 AM
Ha - I'll take this one on the chin and love it. This is probably my most knee jerk thread and sure enough, JJ has erased any concerns of an arm issue or any other type of injury.
He looks absolutely filthy.
Actually it wasn't a knee jerk thread and this is not a great bump. At the time, Johnson had some back problems and was throwing 89-91 all spring. There was some reason for concern, but clearly JJ was able to ramp it back up when he needed to. He looks downright filthy right now.
dan-O
05-16-2012, 09:53 AM
Actually it wasn't a knee jerk thread and this is not a great bump. At the time, Johnson had some back problems and was throwing 89-91 all spring. There was some reason for concern, but clearly JJ was able to ramp it back up when he needed to. He looks downright filthy right now.
Well, one thing is for sure. The O's wouldn't be where they are right now if JJ wasn't being one of the best closers in the game. It's been a huge bonus - think about it: we barely even knew if he would be successful in the closer's role. He had a few last year but it was a pretty small sample. He's really helped anchor the whole bullpen.
glenn__davis
05-16-2012, 09:56 AM
If he stays steady gotta think he has a pretty good shot at the All-star game.
Can_of_corn
05-16-2012, 09:59 AM
If he stays steady gotta think he has a pretty good shot at the All-star game.
I would rather he didn't.
Frobby
05-16-2012, 10:08 AM
Actually it wasn't a knee jerk thread and this is not a great bump. At the time, Johnson had some back problems and was throwing 89-91 all spring. There was some reason for concern, but clearly JJ was able to ramp it back up when he needed to. He looks downright filthy right now.
By bumping this, I didn't mean to imply that there was no reason for concern at the time the thread was started. I'm just glad that it has turned out well (at least, so far).
dan-O
05-16-2012, 10:51 AM
I would rather he didn't.
Yeah, the last thing we need is another Sherrill episode. Go have fun, Jones or Hardy or Wieters.. leave our pitchers alone, though. Actually, go ahead and leave Wieters alone too.. lol.
glenn__davis
05-16-2012, 11:37 AM
I would rather he didn't.
I'd like to see him make it. It's a good honor for these guys, even if the game doesn't mean as much to fans anymore.