So what's it gonna take to get folks back to the Yard?

[Todd-O]

My kids keep asking me what the crowd will be like when we go to see the Jays next week. My auto-response is "probably won't be too crowded"... but every time we have this conversation, it leads me to wonder what it's going to take to get the real crowds back. Of course we have the stadium invasion nights... and opening day.

But my sense is that our fan base - what's left of it - is gun-shy when it comes to committing time and money to supporting this team.

So, what do you all think it's going to take to get the fans back in the stadium in a substantial way --- meaning a 75% full stadium... routinely?

If this club is a bit above .500 for a month... would fans start coming?

Two months?

All Star Break?

One season above .500?

NEVER?????

I have to feelings on this. One is (and this is based on a lot of former O's fans turned Nats fans) that people don't want to give Angelos money under any circumstance. I think winning would trump that... but there is a very strong anti-angelos sentiment in the air. The other is... if this team can win for at least a month... maybe a tad more... if they can be in contention mid-may... then people will start to show. Camden will have some life....

Thoughts?

[crissfan172]

Isn't it obvious?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9QS0q3mGPGg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[incubus]

Based off past experience (2005) I would say the All-star break. A winning season would really go a long way towards filling the yard though.

[oriole]

Hate to say it but I think just a winning season wouldn't be enough. It'd have to be a legitimate playoff push.

[NewMarketSean]

Hate to say it but I think just a winning season wouldn't be enough. It'd have to be a legitimate playoff push.

Agreed. I don't think the big bump in attendance would occur until the next year. Fans are going to be skeptical until it really matters.

[Frobby]

Hate to say it but I think just a winning season wouldn't be enough. It'd have to be a legitimate playoff push.

Agreed. I guess if we were within 2-3 games of 1st place when school got out you'd see attendance begin to pick up. But the fans have been burned before so nothing in April or May is likely to have an effect.

[oriolefan1035]

If they don't lose another game before coming home, I solemnly vow to clear whatever is on my schedule to go to every single game until they lose. Take me broke Birds!!! :)

[crowmst3k!]

I'll be there for at least one of the games.

[scottbbfm]

A few factors here, obviously being near the top of the standings, but if they are continuing to lead the majors in HRs, that would help a lot.

[JohnnyK27]

A few factors here, obviously being near the top of the standings, but if they are continuing to lead the majors in HRs, that would help a lot.

For me its a new owner!

[oriolesfan50]

In 2005 when the Orioles led for 62 games of the year, the stadium was pretty empty. If being in first place, playing well won't bring back fans.. the playoffs will. If its the end of the season and we are pushing for the playoffs, the yard will be full.

[OFFNY]

.
The equation is simple: more wins = more fans.

Solving that equation has been our problem. :(

And yes, I do think that if we are able to stay a few games above .500, I think that the fans will start to come out more as early as the end of April/beginning of May.

[SteveA]

First of all, hardly anything can make it happen this year. The season ticket base, which is the baseline attendance if there's no single game sales or walkups, is too low. Any shcool night with poor weather is sitll going to be lucky to have a listed attendance of more than 12,000 and real attendance of more than 6000 or 7000.

Now if we stay in the race into June, the weather is nice, things could catch on like they did in, say 1979, when a youth oriented radio station took over the broadcasts and really pumped promoting the team 24/7, and the team rebounded from a "poor" (only 90 win) 1978 year and won 100+ games. And that started a multi year span of rising attendance as each successful year ensured more season tickets.

[BaltimoreTerp]

In 2005 when the Orioles led for 62 games of the year, the stadium was pretty empty. If being in first place, playing well won't bring back fans.. the playoffs will. If its the end of the season and we are pushing for the playoffs, the yard will be full.

That's not at all true.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/2005-schedule-scores.shtml

They were getting 35,000 a game for a weekend series against Detroit in late May, then coming off that long road trip through the first half of June they essentially sold out those Rockies games. They also got almost to 48,000 as late as August 1.

Winning is what will bring people back. It might take a bit longer due to past fake-outs (like 2005), but if the team is above .500 in July and August you'll start seeing bigger crowds, and in September maybe some sell-outs.

[Jagwar]

Free beer.

'Nuff said.

[JimDH]

There are a number of fans that are gone forever. Moved away, died, changed interests etc. With the team being so bad for so long these have not been replaced by the younger generations. Those who would grow into paying customers/season ticket customers. Many of those may never be captured.
Attendance should increase immediately if the team starts winning regularly, but I think it will take a long, long time to get back to where they were. Or a WS run, maybe.

[weams]

Win more games than they lose. Over a full season. That is what it will take.

[crowmst3k!]

There are a number of fans that are gone forever. Moved away, died, changed interests etc. With the team being so bad for so long these have not been replaced by the younger generations. Those who would grow into paying customers/season ticket customers. Many of those may never be captured.
Attendance should increase immediately if the team starts winning regularly, but I think it will take a long, long time to get back to where they were. Or a WS run, maybe.

A WS run would do it, for sure. At this point tho, a winning season, followed by a big splash offseason would go a long way.

[bmoreosfan]

I think it's time we had another Fantastic Fans night like back in 1988. If the team is .500 or above after the trip to LA, I think it would be great to have 30 or 40K to welcome back the team. Probably hard to do on a Tuesday night in April but it would mean a lot to the team.

[statman]

Hate to say it but I think just a winning season wouldn't be enough. It'd have to be a legitimate playoff push.

The Phillies weren't selling out their stadium not too long ago either....then they won with their core, built on their core substantially, and now they are a powerhouse that sells out every game...why can't we be the same? Step one is to win with our core...

[Winning_Season]

I'd say making it to the end of school above .500 and in first or second place (maybe third if the record is good) and you will start to see a increase in attendance, probably not on the scale of 2005 but something. If they were to make past the All Star break and into October still in the playoff hunt I think you will start to see sellouts. Baltimore still loves the O's, but haven't had anything to cheer for, the primary appeal of going to a game since the all-star break of 2005 has been the stadium and the fact that baseball games are fun, not that the games meant anything. Make the games meaningful and the fans will come back in droves.

[RavNMadMan]

Sustained winning ways. A good start like we're seeing does not define sustained. If we're way out by the break then same old will be seen as same old and rightfully so IMO. If we're still in it or at least have a viable chance at .500 at that point, I firmly believe fans will take on more interest and patronize the ballpark in larger numbers.

[hoosiers]

Winning is the best cure that could provide sustained higher attendance.

Not really mentioned above is that, IMO, the promotions of Machado and Dylan Bundy (when that time is near) will provide at least a short term attendance burst.

[Eddie_Murray33]

Be within "shouting distance" (5 games or less) of the final playoff spot come August 1st....

[Rick_Schu]

Maybe people will have to drop their crap attitudes, have a few cold beers at the bar, and go hit the game to have a good time, win or lose. Go O's!

[scOtt]

Continuing this run through Chicago and on to Anaheim? And then back home. That'd probably seat a few extra butts...

[scOtt]

Continuing this run through Chicago and on to Anaheim? And then back home. That'd probably seat a few extra butts...

My point... baby steps. Like "Just win, baby!"


That gets 300 more people to come out next Tuesday and Wednesday. Thursday night a few more. Win THAT series against the Blow Jays and Friday night vs. the lowly A's will be rockin'!

[scOtt]

And/or free beer!








:beerchug1::new_beer::beerchug1::new_beer::beerchu g1:

[Todd-O]

The Phillies weren't selling out their stadium not too long ago either....then they won with their core, built on their core substantially, and now they are a powerhouse that sells out every game...why can't we be the same? Step one is to win with our core...

I lived in Philly during their transition of no fans to a lot of fans. They had several things going for them: (1) an undying love for the team and a yearning for winning, (2) a captive audience (read: 1 team in town), (3) hype around quite a few young stud players (starting with Rollins... Followed by the signing of Thome... And the emergence of Utley... Followed by the emergence of Howard), (4) several seasons of .500+ ball, and (5) the arrival of a new ball park.

I still remember, plain as day, Jimmy Rollins announcing in spring training (to much controversy) that the phillies - not the heavily favored mets - were the new team to beat. The city absolutely ate that up.

I think a poster, previously, put it well by pointing out that a good portion of O's fans have totally lost interest (be it 14 yrs losing and the arrival of the Nats), strongly dislike the owner and won't support him, have died or moved... And there aren't a lot of kids who have grown into fandom (in my neighborhood, which oozes kids, I only know of 2 that wear O's gear. All the rest are yanks, sox and Nats).

[SoBo]

2005 was a tease for sure and the O's have gotten off to fast starts and even played .500 ball a few times into June during this horrid losing streak. It will take a playoff race to get fans back into OPACY on a regular basis THIS year. But if the O's play .500 ball or better with guys like Wieters, Jones and Reimold breaking out and signing extensions coupled with Machado and Bundy torching minor league ball you could see a real nice pick up in 2013. There is still plenty of O's fans in town to put 25,000 in OPACY on a regular basis. After 14 years of losing the 10,000 extra fans a night that we're not seeing anymore just don't care. Simply apathetic. But everyone loves a winner. Just look at the Ravens and Caps.

[DrungoHazewood]

And/or free beer!
:beerchug1::new_beer::beerchug1::new_beer::beerchu g1:

Ten Cent Beer Night (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Cent_Beer_Night) in Cleveland did triple their average attendance, at least for a night! If you don't mind forfeits, riots, and empty gallon jugs of Thunderbird raining down on the players... Not that I'm a big drinker, but I've always wanted to plop down a $5 and say "give me 50!"

[andrewochs615]

The Phillies weren't selling out their stadium not too long ago either....then they won with their core, built on their core substantially, and now they are a powerhouse that sells out every game...why can't we be the same? Step one is to win with our core...

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Philly fans once the Philly's start to crumble. Like the Red Sox I think the phillies are going to fall from their high soon.

[grimed1]

The next homestand will not be a great draw. You do have the Frank Robinson Replica Sculpture plus a Little League Day. That may give them around 30,000 for the weekend games. The weekday against Toronto will be tough. Way too earrly to win back the fans. I say it would take till around July. They do have the Yankees and Boston in May but during the week. May 23rd ,you will have alot of kids for the day game. WJZ Field day has sold about 18,000 tickets already. June you have two good weekend series ,Phillies and Nats. Philly series has very few tickets for Saturday and Sunday. Nats tickets are also selling well. Also the Nats are 9-3 and are promoting heavily, Have discounts on Travelzoo and in the Washington Post. Also have $2.00 Tuesday. Alot of people think the Nats have a realistic chance to be good. I think the Nats would get the bigger ticket bump first. O's more of a wait and see. It's only 11 games.

[Brendan25]

The O's still have a lot of work to do. I do think that if the O's are in the playoff chase in July that the yard will be full, but I'm talking playoff chase, not 3-7 games out.

[Mayor McCheese]

I would say the O's would need to be in it for a few months for people to really start coming out and "packing the yard"

Also, for the younger fans the team really needs a superstar...hopefully AJ and/or Weiters can and will become that guy.

[Todd-O]

I would say the O's would need to be in it for a few months for people to really start coming out and "packing the yard"

Also, for the younger fans the team really needs a superstar...hopefully AJ and/or Weiters can and will become that guy.

To your point... AJ and Weiters must become that guy... And, secondarily, Bundy needs a Strasburg-hyped rise to the majors (outside of hardcore fans, your average MLB fan had no idea who he is...). We need a pitcher that is set-em knock'em down kinda guy.

[TonySoprano]

Agreed. I guess if we were within 2-3 games of 1st place when school got out you'd see attendance begin to pick up. But the fans have been burned before so nothing in April or May is likely to have an effect.

They've been burned most years. In fact 10 of the last 14 years, they were below .500 after June 1st when the kids are still in school. Put another way, 4 months or more of watching a team with a losing record a year.

I've posted this a few times before. Here are the last days of .500 baseball since 1998

YR 0.500
1998 Sep-21
1999 Apr-07
2000 May-09
2001 May-27
2002 Aug-23
2003 May-18
2004 Jun-01
2005 Aug-17
2006 May-02
2007 May-31
2008 Jul-09
2009 Apr-23
2010 N/A
2011 May-26

[canonfaz]

$4.00 tickets

[DrungoHazewood]

$4.00 tickets

Maybe the O's could become the RyanAir of baseball. It's $4 for a box seat, but $5 to go to the bathroom, $15 for a hot dog, $20 a beer, $17 for a program... You have to feed $3 into a slot every time you want your seat cushion to fold down to sit.

[atom_25]

Speaking as one of the exodused masses, I made a deal with the wife that come June we would renew our partial season ticket package for this season if the Orioles were in contention and playing well. For me an avid fan who would attend 15- 20 home games per season and watch on tv most nights or listen on the radio, last season was a tipping point where I just could not take it any more and needed a break. Having taken my July until the past few games break I already am itching to jump back on board but still need a little bit more reassurance that my bubble of hope is not going to be popped before the calendar turns to May. I am not asking for the moon, just a team that is halfway competitive and inspires one to care. I am an avid lifelong fan. I know the vast majority of people needed to fill the seats don't care nearly as much as I do, not even counting the younger generation who have grown up not knowing what a decent Orioles team looks like. I would presume that if the uptick in competitiveness can continue and even progress it would still take until at least July for it to translate into better attendances, and even then it is more likely to be gradual progression as opposed to overnight sell outs.

[grimed1]

Maybe the O's could become the RyanAir of baseball. It's $4 for a box seat, but $5 to go to the bathroom, $15 for a hot dog, $20 a beer, $17 for a program... You have to feed $3 into a slot every time you want your seat cushion to fold down to sit.

$5.00 baggage fee. This is for food brought into the stadium. Yankee and Red Sox games are nearly double in ticket prices and a walkup fee to buy tickets. Oh oh,they already do the last two,

[NewMarketSean]

Shoot, I think a $5 beer night would pack the stadium. Or they could at least make it certain sections so kids wont be subject to any rowdiness.

Right now I think they are doing a pretty good job making it affordable and desirable to go to more games. Dropping the walk-up fee is probably the only major thing they could do to show they care about the fans.

[Hank Scorpio]

Look @ the stadium last night in Chicago... empty.

Baseball is just too constant/accessible to fill that place regularly. By & large, society has changed. Except in places like Boston & Chicago.

[Skeletor]

Look @ the stadium last night in Chicago... empty.

Baseball is just too constant/accessible to fill that place regularly. By & large, society has changed. Except in places like Boston & Chicago.

But it really hasn't. Certain stadiums go through peaks and valleys, but as a whole more people go to games than ever. Baseball, more than any other sport, has its attendance and tv ratings rooted to their home teams. They play 162 games a year; certain relationships and bonds are built between the hometown players and their fans. That's why World Series ratings are indicative of nothing.

[Hank Scorpio]

But it really hasn't. Certain stadiums go through peaks and valleys, but as a whole more people go to games than ever. Baseball, more than any other sport, has its attendance and tv ratings rooted to their home teams. They play 162 games a year; certain relationships and bonds are built between the hometown players and their fans. That's why World Series ratings are indicative of nothing.

I guess.

But in Baltimore, the glory days of Memorial Stadium are long gone even if they were slightly romanticized.

[flashjordnk]

Look @ the stadium last night in Chicago... empty.

Baseball is just too constant/accessible to fill that place regularly. By & large, society has changed. Except in places like Boston & Chicago.

Last night it was probably in the 50's with 10+ MPH winds in Chicago. And they were playing the Orioles...The Yard didn't even sell out this early when the Yankees were in town because it's so darn cold.

Not saying Chicago sells out every game, but I haven't been to Balt or Wash for a game, simply because the weather hasn't been great. Monday night the one really good night to go, I was busy...

[Coker]

The major league debuts of Machado and Bundy.

[EddieEddie]

I'll throw this in there because I dont feel like starting a new thread and no one every checks the MLB forum:

Trade for Mark Trumbo.

He can't even get in the line-up in LA because they signed Pujols and have Morales back and a crowded outfield. He can't play 3B, had 3 errors in the first 2 games. Get him, and he can be our 1B for the next decade or so. We'd have to give up a lot, but there is an opporunity there.

Just throwing that out there.

[SilentJames]

If the Orioles are above .500 at the end of June, people will start coming back.

If the Orioles are above .500 when they return from this roadtrip I think you will see some highly attended games.

[NewMarketSean]

If the Orioles are above .500 at the end of June, people will start coming back.

If the Orioles are above .500 when they return from this roadtrip I think you will see some highly attended games.

It'll be June.

Fans wont be suckered by a good roadtrip in April.

The O's do have some good promos coming up....T-shirt Thursday, the Frobby statue on April 28th...they'll be well attended for those games and others like it.

As long as the team is decent throughout the summer, you'll see a spike, but nothing consistent until at least June.

[DrungoHazewood]

But it really hasn't. Certain stadiums go through peaks and valleys, but as a whole more people go to games than ever. Baseball, more than any other sport, has its attendance and tv ratings rooted to their home teams. They play 162 games a year; certain relationships and bonds are built between the hometown players and their fans. That's why World Series ratings are indicative of nothing.

1979 was the first year the O's averaged 20k fans a game. Through the 1969-1979 run they averaged between 11k and 13k a game. The '75 O's (just picking a year) had several games with announced attendances under 5000.

[PaulFolk]

I'll throw this in there because I dont feel like starting a new thread and no one every checks the MLB forum:

Trade for Mark Trumbo.

He can't even get in the line-up in LA because they signed Pujols and have Morales back and a crowded outfield. He can't play 3B, had 3 errors in the first 2 games. Get him, and he can be our 1B for the next decade or so. We'd have to give up a lot, but there is an opporunity there.

Just throwing that out there.

No single player acquisition is going to raise attendance consistently (though maybe an absolutely huge name like Pujols would bring some more fans).

But...Mark Trumbo? A guy who casual fans have never heard of, and who isn't particularly good? (.291 OBP last year) That wouldn't register even a blip on the radar screen in terms of bringing more fans.

[DuffMan]

No single player acquisition is going to raise attendance consistently (though maybe an absolutely huge name like Pujols would bring some more fans).

But...Mark Trumbo? A guy who casual fans have never heard of, and who isn't particularly good? (.291 OBP last year) That wouldn't register even a blip on the radar screen in terms of bringing more fans.

If we traded for Mark Trumbo I would go to less games!

[DuffMan]

Look @ the stadium last night in Chicago... empty.

Baseball is just too constant/accessible to fill that place regularly. By & large, society has changed. Except in places like Boston & Chicago.


I saw all those green seats and my first thought was I thought they were playing at Chicago not in Baltimore.

[DuffMan]

Hate to say it but I think just a winning season wouldn't be enough. It'd have to be a legitimate playoff push.


Agreed. I don't think the big bump in attendance would occur until the next year. Fans are going to be skeptical until it really matters.


Agreed. I guess if we were within 2-3 games of 1st place when school got out you'd see attendance begin to pick up. But the fans have been burned before so nothing in April or May is likely to have an effect.

I agree with this as well. It's going to take more than a few good weeks/months of winning baseball to get fans to forget about 14 years of losing.

[Todd-O]

I agree Paul... the only kind of player that could get some attention would be a super-sized superstar.

I still think that the arrival of a wildly hyped (and hopefully, wildly successful in the MiLs) Bundy could get folks fired up. Of course his arrival will need to intersect with more Ws than Ls in the standings and stable of very good players in the clubhouse.

Things can change fast on the personnel front in sports. Luckily, for the O's, enough of our guys are young and haven't hit their ceilings. :rolleyes:

[Todd-O]

I agree with this as well. It's going to take more than a few good weeks/months of winning baseball to get fans to forget about 14 years of losing.

The beauty is: Winning can erase that 14 years. And oh wouldn't it be sweet!!!!! I would give a lot just to have a hard time getting tix to a game. ;)

[JimDH]

There are a number of fans that are gone forever. Moved away, died, changed interests etc. With the team being so bad for so long these have not been replaced by the younger generations. Those who would grow into paying customers/season ticket customers. Many of those may never be captured.
Attendance should increase immediately if the team starts winning regularly, but I think it will take a long, long time to get back to where they were. Or a WS run, maybe.

This is what I still think.

[Hank Scorpio]

This is what I still think.

I wholeheartedly agree.

For some, the bridge has long been torched.

[Todd-O]

Well... it's been a long time since I started this thread. Tomorrow is the regular season home finale. I know folks are looking ahead to - hopefully - the playoffs... but I was just checking the Orioles.com website and anyone can go on there and fetch tickets for Sunday's game.

Phew.

I just don't get it. This is the MOST exciting team we've had in 15 years. They are going right down to the wire in a division crown race with the Yankees and the Red Sox are in town. And there are still a lot of empty seats sitting there for the last game.

Perhaps I under-estimated the damage the Orioles have done to the fan base during this losing streak... perhaps the damage the arrival and the 2012 success of the Nationals... or maybe it's the hard hitting effects of the economy...

But I am totally disappointed that all 3 games against the Sox this weekend aren't blocked-out, sold-out, black and orange clad.

Maybe if the O's can make some noise in a post-season run... maybe that will rejuvenate the fan base for next year.

Kind of a downer, if you ask me...

(not that I'm not totally fired-up for this team... they have MADE MY YEAR! Go Birds!)

[LookitsPuck]

Today is sold out. Attendance up 4,000 a game. Just keep winning.

[Todd-O]

Today is sold out, yes. But this is Brooks' big day. It's kind of an exception. Yesterday, there were a ton of empty seats. Tomorrow... There are a lot of empty seats...

[BehindTimes]

Constant sell outs don't happen overnight. It takes a few years to rebuild interest. It's starting again, but being football season, many people who would be bandwagon fans are still unaware of the O's. yes, it does take band wagoners to sell out unfortunately.

[backriver111]

Constant sell outs don't happen overnight. It takes a few years to rebuild interest. It's starting again, but being football season, many people who would be bandwagon fans are still unaware of the O's. yes, it does take band wagoners to sell out unfortunately.

I completely understand your point but if we can't sell out now, who's to say a few more years of winning will change anything? It doesn't get any more exciting than this in Baltimore. We have a great bunch of personalities on a winning team in a beautiful stadium against division opponents and the weather's been perfect. Not to mention prices have been discounted on several occasions and its late September. If that's not a perfect storm for a sell out I don't know what is. Hopefully I'm wrong but the days of constant sell outs are over.

On the bright side, it seems like the Oriole fans at the games are more passionate than ever. It?s a beautiful thing.

[DrungoHazewood]

I completely understand your point but if we can't sell out now, who's to say a few more years of winning will change anything?

Multi-year winning builds a season ticket base.

[Todd-O]

I will say this, the crowds... Even at 20,000 are great. Really what you are getting are a ton of hardcore O's fans who really appreciate what is happening. These are crowds that have a history with the team - through the ups and downs.

It's pretty awesome.

[isestrex]

Well... it's been a long time since I started this thread. Tomorrow is the regular season home finale. I know folks are looking ahead to - hopefully - the playoffs... but I was just checking the Orioles.com website and anyone can go on there and fetch tickets for Sunday's game.

Phew.

I just don't get it. This is the MOST exciting team we've had in 15 years. They are going right down to the wire in a division crown race with the Yankees and the Red Sox are in town. And there are still a lot of empty seats sitting there for the last game.

Perhaps I under-estimated the damage the Orioles have done to the fan base during this losing streak... perhaps the damage the arrival and the 2012 success of the Nationals... or maybe it's the hard hitting effects of the economy...

But I am totally disappointed that all 3 games against the Sox this weekend aren't blocked-out, sold-out, black and orange clad.

Maybe if the O's can make some noise in a post-season run... maybe that will rejuvenate the fan base for next year.

Kind of a downer, if you ask me...

(not that I'm not totally fired-up for this team... they have MADE MY YEAR! Go Birds!)

This is a huge step in the right direction. The attendance is over 2 million for the first time since 2007. And B-R ranks the Orioles 6th in biggest change in attendance from 2011 to 2012.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/current_attendance.shtml

It won't happen over night but it is turning around.

[DynamicDuo]

I'm sure many of you are aware of this, but living in DC, I'm particular aware -- I'd say 9 out of 10 Orioles "fans" in DC became Nats fans overnight when they arrived in 2005. These were people who would go to a few or several O's games a year and now go to none. Also, several DC businesses had Orioles season tickets and virtually all of them switched to the Nats (to the extent they hadn't already dropped them). I don't think it'd be an overstatement to estimate that the O's lost around 30% of their paying customers with the Nats' move.

It's too bad that the Nats are good this year. If they were terrible (like they have been since they got to DC), I'd imagine many of these fairweather fans would've switched back (despite the miserable traffic to games).

[Todd-O]

^^^ No doubt about it. You know what, though? Good riddance.

[frankpembleton]

I'm sure many of you are aware of this, but living in DC, I'm particular aware -- I'd say 9 out of 10 Orioles "fans" in DC became Nats fans overnight when they arrived in 2005. These were people who would go to a few or several O's games a year and now go to none. Also, several DC businesses had Orioles season tickets and virtually all of them switched to the Nats (to the extent they hadn't already dropped them). I don't think it'd be an overstatement to estimate that the O's lost around 30% of their paying customers with the Nats' move.

It's too bad that the Nats are good this year. If they were terrible (like they have been since they got to DC), I'd imagine many of these fairweather fans would've switched back (despite the miserable traffic to games).

I've lived in DC for the past 9 years, and while I agree there is certainly segment of Oriole fans that became Nats fans (and rightly so) there is still a pretty large Oriole fan presence in DC. Also, the Nats may be averaging a few thousand more fans every night than the O's, but having been up in Baltimore quite a bit recently, the Nats just do not garner the same attention and love that the Orioles get in Baltimore and even to a certain extent DC. I just don't get the "pennant fever" in DC for the Nats that is palpable in Baltimore.

I think the Nats will consistently outdraw the Orioles, based purely on economics and the size of the two media markets. The Orioles, however, will always be the more "loved" of both teams and will have the more passionate fanbase and likely better local TV ratings.

So I guess what I am saying is that ihat I think your 30% figure is too high. The excitement, history and passion of the Oriole fanbase will likely sway a lot of people stuck in the middle between DC and Baltimore to re-devote themselves to the O's. I mean really, would you rather go to the shopping mall that is Nats Park with their cheerleading fan dude and lame corporate fans, or to the best park in baseball with real baseball fans? I can walk to Nats Park and I have been once this year (to see the O's), but I have been to Camden 5 times....

[DrungoHazewood]

^^^ No doubt about it. You know what, though? Good riddance.

I wouldn't be so flip about it. As much as we'd all love for the entire fanbase to be die hards, they're not. Half the paying customers of all winning teams wouldn't be there if the team lost for five straight years. And a fairly large number would switch teams if there was a choice and there was a stark contrast in quality.

We may dislike the casual fans and the bandwagoners and the kind of people who live in Bethesda and switched to the Nats, but those are the folks who shell out for the expansion from a $80M payroll to a $120M.

[BehindTimes]

I wouldn't be so flip about it. As much as we'd all love for the entire fanbase to be die hards, they're not. Half the paying customers of all winning teams wouldn't be there if the team lost for five straight years. And a fairly large number would switch teams if there was a choice and there was a stark contrast in quality.

We may dislike the casual fans and the bandwagoners and the kind of people who live in Bethesda and switched to the Nats, but those are the folks who shell out for the expansion from a $80M payroll to a $120M.

It's a double edged sword though. The casual fans bring extra money and help turn a franchise from a $80M to a $120M payroll, but at the same time, they also often bring about the very worst elements of fandom that make your base fanbase look ugly towards to fans of other teams.

As an example, take the Red Sox. Pre 2002 (that's when many of the bandwagon fans came on), were they as aweful as post 2004? For those of you who have gone to Fenway as well as OPACY, did you receive the vibe from the fans? Probably not. Even the last series this year when it was majority O's fans, were the Sox fans in the crowd the same as you remembered them?

I've already stated that I've had a few bad experiences with O's fans towards the end of the season that I've never experienced at OPACY. This is really a tricky road though, as first, the O's will need to rebuild a solid fanbase, and it's really hard to judge your own team's fans, as we all tend to typically put blinders on in that situation. Now, I'm not saying they'll be as bad as Sox fans, but the O's are the flavor of the month (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/09/12/baltimore-orioles-new-york-yankees-mlb/70000212/1). It's easy to see how more die hard fans could be for or against additions of bandwagon fans.