Ritterpusch resigns!

[Why Not?]

Baltimore Orioles: Announced the resignation of director of baseball information systems Dave Ritterpusch.


This is among AP's transactions. Don't see any details on the web just yet.

[Max Power]

Didnt expect that. I always thought the testing system was a good idea but it seemed to be taken too far at times. Probably time for a new sig since I dont want to be confused with jw for keeping outdated quotes.

Hopefully they can bring in an established stats guy to run the baseball information stuff.

[Dr. FLK]

This is the first I have heard of this. Was there any sign that this was coming?

[brachd]

Baltimore Orioles: Announced the resignation of director of baseball information systems Dave Ritterpusch.


Evidently this organization has actually decided to go a different route. Ritterpusch, Beattie, and Kenney are 3 key members to this front office now gone. I guess the head shrinks didn't win this battle after all....

[DoobyDoo]

Should be interesting to see who fills his spot.

[Gurgi]

And like Obi-Wan Kenobi it will only make him unimaginably stronger.

[Hank Scorpio]

Wha wha what??? After Kenney's departure I don't think anyone really expected that.

[hatter]

Baltimore Orioles: Announced the resignation of director of baseball information systems Dave Ritterpusch.


This is among AP's transactions. Don't see any details on the web just yet. You have to like the speed of this FO transformation. Flanny appears to have a direction and a plan!!!

[Rockbird]

:eek:

That is a true shocking twist to this offseason. I thought he was Flanny's boy? I guess they found the dead bodies. Very odd move, especially since we thought Ed Kenney was gone because he didn't mesh with this guy. Hey, I approve, anything that gets this team running like an actual baseball organization is a positive in my book!

[weams]

You have to like the speed of this FO transformation. Flanny appears to have a direction and a plan!!!


I should have been able to read these tea leaves...

Maybe after the numbing years of "BeattieSpeak" I was assuming this meant nothing.

"But a source with intimate knowledge of Baltimore's draft this year said Ritterpusch had no say in any picks.

"He had no input on this draft whatsoever," the source said. "It didn't influence any pick that was made. It was all about what the scouting staff wanted."

Flanagan said Tuesday he had not made any decisions regarding the structure of his front office, including Ritterpusch's role.

"We're going to do some outside interviewing for staffing a variety of roles," Flanagan said."

[Wild Bill]

Wha wha what??? After Kenney's departure I don't think anyone really expected that.


As I said on another thread "hang on for the ride" as it will get very interesting after the WS. I want to clarify a couple of things as I never specified a $100 million payroll figure for next year, although if everything clicks it may approach that. Others here have correctly stated that there are many intangibles to free agent signings and major trades, however, the O's believe that NY and Boston are vulnerable next year and intend to make the run next year. As I stated in my other thread if things click they will spend the money.

[Rockbird]

As I said on another thread "hang on for the ride" as it will get very interesting after the WS. I want to clarify a couple of things as I never specified a $100 million payroll figure for next year, although if everything clicks it may approach that. Others here have correctly stated that there are many intangibles to free agent signings and major trades, however, the O's believe that NY and Boston are vulnerable next year and intend to make the run next year. As I stated in my other thread if things click they will spend the money.

Thanks WB. Can you shed anymore light on this move though? Were we incorrect in assuming that Flanagan was really tight with this guy and respected his whacky tests? Anything else we should be on the lookout for?

[Peaceman21]

As I said on another thread "hang on for the ride" as it will get very interesting after the WS. I want to clarify a couple of things as I never specified a $100 million payroll figure for next year, although if everything clicks it may approach that. Others here have correctly stated that there are many intangibles to free agent signings and major trades, however, the O's believe that NY and Boston are vulnerable next year and intend to make the run next year. As I stated in my other thread if things click they will spend the money.


To go into a season now thinking the Yanks and Red Sox are vulnerable after this past season is crazy. Sorry, but they have the tools and experince to overcome a sloppy first half, to make a run for it.

[Sports Guy]

This is why he resigned, just so you all know the truth:

There were a few reasons...One of them was how the handled the firing of a scout...He made some critical comments and it got back to PA.

And also apparently some of the articles have have come out since the season ended rubbed PA the wrong way.

These are the reasons he is no longer with the team.

[The Wedge]

You know, I really hate how resign and resign are two different words.

[Sapper]

Well this season is looking better and better. :D

[Witchy Chick]

Holy ISAM test, Batman!!!! :D

I wonder, then, if the ISAM test (and the perceived importance of the scores) will go out the door with Ritterpusch? Or will the Flanny-led FO continue to use it, only in a more judicious manner??


Witchy

[hatter]

As I said on another thread "hang on for the ride" as it will get very interesting after the WS. I want to clarify a couple of things as I never specified a $100 million payroll figure for next year, although if everything clicks it may approach that. Others here have correctly stated that there are many intangibles to free agent signings and major trades, however, the O's believe that NY and Boston are vulnerable next year and intend to make the run next year. As I stated in my other thread if things click they will spend the money. If things click, sounds like if we connect early with a couple FA's it would give us the ability to trade some pitching prospects for some bats.

[Sapper]

This is why he resigned, just so you all know the truth:

There were a few reasons...One of them was how the handled the firing of a scout...He made some critical comments and it got back to PA.

And also apparently some of the articles have have come out since the season ended rubbed PA the wrong way.

These are the reasons he is no longer with the team.
See, I stand by my thread that PA in no way has learned his lesson about injecting himself too far into the baseball ops. Even though we've made some positve moves like Mazz and Duquette, there are still indications to me that PA is conducting a "purge" of naysayers and leaving the lapdogs in place.

[NewMarketSean]

To go into a season now thinking the Yanks and Red Sox are vulnerable after this past season is crazy. Sorry, but they have the tools and experince to overcome a sloppy first half, to make a run for it.

The Orioles, as always, are always late to the party.

If they had this frame of mind last season -- with a free agent rich offseason -- I could see them actually taking advantage of the Yankees and Red Sox's flaws. But this season will see them field largely the same team as they did in 2005. Unless they buck years worth of trends and get creative, that is.

Let's face it -- this year's catches are Giles, Konerko, Burnett, Millwood and Byrd. All fine upgrades over what we have but nothing that will thrust us into the Yanks and Sox category.

Wild Bill definitely has peaked my interest with his scoops but I'm still highly reserved when it comes to this team.

I'm still expecting the worst and hoping to be pleasently surprised. There's no other way to approach this team.

[Wild Bill]

To go into a season now thinking the Yanks and Red Sox are vulnerable after this past season is crazy. Sorry, but they have the tools and experince to overcome a sloppy first half, to make a run for it.

Unless I missed something both NY and Boston were eliminated in the playoffs by teams with better pitching, thus their vulnerablity. Think about two free agent signings and multi-year deals and I assure you, we are not talking about 35 year old first basemen or outfielders hardly better than what we have now. Stock pitchers and then the blockbuster trades come into play. Let's use a take off on a Bill Clinton campaign rallying cry "it's the economy, stupid" just insert "pitching" for "economy" and you have the new front office strategy.

[Chromehill]

Sounds like Ritterspuch and Kenney did not get along. Possibly they are purging all the non team players in the front office.

[Sports Guy]

Unless I missed something both NY and Boston were eliminated in the playoffs by teams with better pitching, thus their vulnerablity. Think about two free agent signings and multi-year deals and I assure you, we are not talking about 35 year old first basemen or outfielders hardly better than what we have now. Stock pitchers and then the blockbuster trades come into play. Let's use a take off on a Bill Clinton campaign rallying cry "it's the economy, stupid" just insert "pitching" for "economy" and you have the new front office strategy.


So we go after Millwood and AJ.

[Sapper]

Unless I missed something both NY and Boston were eliminated in the playoffs by teams with better pitching, thus their vulnerablity. Think about two free agent signings and multi-year deals and I assure you, we are not talking about 35 year old first basemen or outfielders hardly better than what we have now. Stock pitchers and then the blockbuster trades come into play. Let's use a take off on a Bill Clinton campaign rallying cry "it's the economy, stupid" just insert "pitching" for "economy" and you have the new front office strategy.
Bill unless I missed something, the Yanks and Sox were collectively 7-6 versus Chicago and 10-10 versus the Angels, and that in a year where both teams started VERY slowly. I wouldn't be so ready to crown any other division leaders as the best in the AL.

[hatter]

So we go after Millwood and AJ. Sounds like that to me too, it's obvious that we pressing for AJ, he could be the first; Millwood to follow and then we trade for some bats. Hopefully Flanny can negotiate 2 things at the same time.

[Belkast]

See, I stand by my thread that PA in no way has learned his lesson about injecting himself too far into the baseball ops. Even though we've made some positve moves like Mazz and Duquette, there are still indications to me that PA is conducting a "purge" of naysayers and leaving the lapdogs in place.
This came from Flanny, the test has been put in a negative light. The whole approach is to keep everything positive.

[DoobyDoo]

It would be a mistake to just focus on pitching this off-season IMO. Our offense has holes too and needs to be addressed just as much as our pitching needs to be addressed.

[Sports Guy]

It would be a mistake to just focus on pitching this off-season IMO. Our offense has holes too and needs to be addressed just as much as our pitching needs to be addressed.


Totally agree with what you are saying. The thing is, the Orioles may be looking at the FA bats and think that Giles is not coming here and that they do not think anyone is worth going after(and you can make the argument that that is true). The problem is, you have no idea who will be made available via trade, so there is no guarantee you can upgrade the offense.

I worry that they will trade DC or Bedard in a deal that they lose out on.

I will still go back and think that Tex is the guy they may be looking at.

[Sapper]

This came from Flanny, the test has been put in a negative light. The whole approach is to keep everything positive.
Not that I disagree with this decisions necessarily, but basically what you just said, to me, indicates that yes-men and lapdogs stay as long as they stay positive and toe the party line and that anyone or anything attached to anything negative gets the boot. Still, I stand by my gut reaction that PA has NOT learned his lesson and is keeping people around him who will be his lapdogs, Flanny at the top of the list -- Flanny may be the ONLY one left on the list at the end of the day. In any case, Flanny being at the head, to me, indicates Angelos really being at the head still.

[NoahES]

It would be a mistake to just focus on pitching this off-season IMO. Our offense has holes too and needs to be addressed just as much as our pitching needs to be addressed.

Good point. Although experts predicted the Orioles collapse would be the result of bad starting pitching, it was actually more the result of terrible offense. I'm happy to upgrade pitching, but we still need to upgrade a couple bats.

[Hank Scorpio]

As I said on another thread "hang on for the ride" as it will get very interesting after the WS. I want to clarify a couple of things as I never specified a $100 million payroll figure for next year, although if everything clicks it may approach that. Others here have correctly stated that there are many intangibles to free agent signings and major trades, however, the O's believe that NY and Boston are vulnerable next year and intend to make the run next year. As I stated in my other thread if things click they will spend the money.

I appreciate the clarification, WB. You're a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad man.

[Rockbird]

And it sounds like we trade Bedard and/or Cabrera.

I don't agree with that, as in the long run, Bedard and Cabrera have the potential to be more productive for the O's than these guys do, especially Burnett.

Sounds like a rebuild now, mortgage the future mentality and it is the last thing we need.

Of course, we could trade Bedard and/or Cabrera for Tex which would make it better, and we do have Loewen, Penn, Olsen and Erbe in the minors.

Do you like this approach if it is indeed the case?

If we can sign 2 bonafide top flight starters like Burnett and Millwood, hopefully a solid backender like Byrd and then pull off a trade for a YOUNG big bat, especially if it's Texiera, you darn right I approve. Like it was mentioned, we still have so many young pitchers up and coming in the minors. You can't keep all of them.

[Wild Bill]

It would be a mistake to just focus on pitching this off-season IMO. Our offense has holes too and needs to be addressed just as much as our pitching needs to be addressed.

You address the pitching needs first then trade for bats. Without good pitching doesn't matter what bats you sign.

[Belkast]

Not that I disagree with this decisions necessarily, but basically what you just said, to me, indicates that yes-men and lapdogs stay as long as they stay positive and toe the party line and that anyone or anything attached to anything negative gets the boot. Still, I stand by my gut reaction that PA has NOT learned his lesson and is keeping people around him who will be his lapdogs, Flanny at the top of the list -- Flanny may be the ONLY one left on the list at the end of the day. In any case, Flanny being at the head, to me, indicates Angelos really being at the head still.
I'm sorry, but Flanny has more control then what you think. The reason he has the job is because he has PGA trust. He is the first one to have it, whick gives him more control then anyone else that was in his position.

[Hank Scorpio]

So we go after Millwood and AJ.

BOING!!!!!!!!!

[SilentJames]

This is why he resigned, just so you all know the truth:

There were a few reasons...One of them was how the handled the firing of a scout...He made some critical comments and it got back to PA.

And also apparently some of the articles have have come out since the season ended rubbed PA the wrong way.

These are the reasons he is no longer with the team.

So is this a good move or "Fidel Angelos getting rid of anyone who opposes him"

Personally I find it funy, 3 weeks ago this guy was a phantom, no one knew who he was or what exactly he did. Now we are celebrating his "resigination."

its pretty funny.

[Sports Guy]

And it sounds like we trade Bedard and/or Cabrera.

I don't agree with that, as in the long run, Bedard and Cabrera have the potential to be more productive for the O's than these guys do, especially Burnett.

Sounds like a rebuild now, mortgage the future mentality and it is the last thing we need.

Of course, we could trade Bedard and/or Cabrera for Tex which would make it better, and we do have Loewen, Penn, Olsen and Erbe in the minors.

Do you like this approach if it is indeed the case?

No i do not like it.

I would not deal DC, Bedard, Loewen, Ray, Penn or Markakis this offseason unless it was for someone really special.

Trading Bedard or DC would be a mistake IMO unless you are getting back Tex or MCab or someone like that. If they trade one of them for Delgado, i think i will scream.

I really do not like the idea of throwing a ton of money at Millwood AND Burnett...Burnett has had a shaky injury history and Millwood will start declining soon. So, to have them both and have them both sucking up payroll, that could be an issue, especially if you get rid of those 2 young arms.

I mean, if you trade Bedard and.or DC and sign those 2, how much further ahead are you?

[Hank Scorpio]

Also, for the record, my new favorite avatar belongs to Weams. Tong, ta tong tong tong...

[Sports Guy]

You address the pitching needs first then trade for bats. Without good pitching doesn't matter what bats you sign.


This is wrong...We were bad this year because of the hitting, not the pitching...We have the young arms in the minors but we do not have the bats.

No real need to sign TWO big time pitchers with all of are other areas of need.

[Tony-OH]

Not that I disagree with this decisions necessarily, but basically what you just said, to me, indicates that yes-men and lapdogs stay as long as they stay positive and toe the party line and that anyone or anything attached to anything negative gets the boot. Still, I stand by my gut reaction that PA has NOT learned his lesson and is keeping people around him who will be his lapdogs, Flanny at the top of the list -- Flanny may be the ONLY one left on the list at the end of the day. In any case, Flanny being at the head, to me, indicates Angelos really being at the head still.
Perhaps you are right Sapper.

But what if Flanny really has Angelos' ear? What if Flanny was being held back a bit by Ritterspusch battling with the Beattie/Kenney? What if hiring Duquette and his experience in dealing with contract negotiations (a known weak point within the organization) helps to the organization be more proactive and attractive to free agents?

What if Angelos is really ready to put out a $90-100 million payroll?

The organization already has an outstanding scouting/player development duo in Jordan/Stockstill, maybe, just maybe things are starting to look up?

The off season has begun to look very promising if you ask me. Now go sign Dave Hudgens as a hitting coach and I'll be elated.

[bigbird]

This is good news. The guy sounded like a whiner based on media reports. I'm picturing Neuman from Seinfield. I guess management was happy with Jordan's efforts in the draft as well they should be.

Wild Bill, I'm hearing lots about the O's going hard after Paul Byrd. Can you confirm or deny this?

[weams]

Thanks for the kudos...and I like it too

[Tony-OH]

Thanks for the kudos...and I like it too
You need to change it, pronto!!

[Belkast]

weams...nice avatar :D

[Hank Scorpio]

You need to change it, pronto!!

Damn, my bad Weams. If I hadn't pointed it out, Tony most likely wouldn't have noticed it.... but Ton, you gotta admit dude, that's a tasty burger!!!

[Wild Bill]

Perhaps you are right Sapper.

But what if Flanny really has Angelos' ear? What if Flanny was being held back a bit by Ritterspusch battling with the Beattie/Kenney? What if hiring Duquette and his experience in dealing with contract negotiations (a known weak point within the organization) helps to the organization be more proactive and attractive to free agents?

What if Angelos is really ready to put out a $90-100 million payroll?

The organization already has an outstanding scouting/player development duo in Jordan/Stockstill, maybe, just maybe things are starting to look up?

The off season has begun to look very promising if you ask me. Now go sign Dave Hudgens as a hitting coach and I'll be elated.

Tony
Could not have said it better myself. The FO will not make stupid moves to trade our young pitchers unless they get "value" in return. The bottom line is you can go with Bedard, Cabrera, Maine, Penn, name five others, but what if they don't improve? Years of 4th place finishes or worse. We need a cornerstone starter as #1 what Ponson was supposed to do. I, like Tony, am very encouraged by the developments and hang on.

[Tony-OH]

I agree.

I really want Burnett and I would go as high as 4/48, allthough it may not get that high.

If we had to trade Bedard or DCab to get a guy like Tex or Cabrera like you said, I would pull the trigger, and then sign a guy like Byrd or Washburn, or bring up Maine or Penn if Mazzone felt they were ready.

But with Burnett, Dcab, Bedard, Chen, Rlo, and Maine/Penn, I think pitching can be a real strength for us this year and for years to come while the younger and perhaps better guys come up through the system.

I will say this though...I think I would rather trade Bedard than Loewen or Penn.
As good as Bedard can be, remember, he's yet to put a full season together in the big leagues and he's going to be 28. There were whispers coming out of the organization that he may not have the attitude to fulfill his promise.

I'm not saying I agree with this or not, just pointing out some things. But I would not be surprised to see Bedard included in a deal for a big bat and replaced by Millwood or Byrd.

Personally, with Mazzone on board, I'd like to see what Bedard does under his tutelage.

[Hank Scorpio]

Wild Bill's got the foreshadowing mastered.

[weams]

You need to change it, pronto!!

Done. I like this one also.

[Sapper]

Perhaps you are right Sapper.

But what if Flanny really has Angelos' ear? What if Flanny was being held back a bit by Ritterspusch battling with the Beattie/Kenney? What if hiring Duquette and his experience in dealing with contract negotiations (a known weak point within the organization) helps to the organization be more proactive and attractive to free agents?

What if Angelos is really ready to put out a $90-100 million payroll?

The organization already has an outstanding scouting/player development duo in Jordan/Stockstill, maybe, just maybe things are starting to look up?

The off season has begun to look very promising if you ask me. Now go sign Dave Hudgens as a hitting coach and I'll be elated.

I agree. I'm torn. I think a lot of the moves have been the right ones, the smart ones -- with the exception of Flanny but he could prove me wrong. But what has been noticeably and alarmingly absent is any indication or acknowledgement by PA that he needs to let the baseball people run things. Instead, we get Flanny who is PA's main guy and this latest is about Ritterpusch gone because he displeased the emperor somehow. There is a thing called making the right decision for the wrong reasons.

I'm also scared with what they might try to do to compete in 2006 when the talent to do it just might not be there in one offseason. We are in serious need of a thorough rebuild and influx of you talent in the positions and we are threatening to try to buy 2nd-rate FAs and make trades -- presumably with our prospects -- for a push to overtake the Yanks and Sox that we should have done last winter.

I will keep an open mind, though. Mazzone and Duquette were both the smart moves and done decisively for a change.

[Sports Guy]

Tony
Could not have said it better myself. The FO will not make stupid moves to trade our young pitchers unless they get "value" in return. The bottom line is you can go with Bedard, Cabrera, Maine, Penn, name five others, but what if they don't improve? Years of 4th place finishes or worse. We need a cornerstone starter as #1 what Ponson was supposed to do. I, like Tony, am very encouraged by the developments and hang on.


It is fine to go after one of those guys but signing both of them and then trading DC and/or Bedard is not the smartest move.

If you sign them both and trade Chen and Rlo, thats fine.

[Hank Scorpio]

Done. I like this one also.

That one doesn't hold a candle to da booty.

[stockpile]

It sounds like the O's are assembling a cohesive group that will make intelligent decisions in a time efficient manner. Ritterpusch may have made valuable contributions, but if he was becoming a "roadblock" at getting things done, he has to go.

Every action from the FO thus far encourages me to believe that indecisiveness, ridiculous lowball offers, and "calculating when to begin planning the process" are a thing of the past. Once the WS is over, I'm curious to see where this goes. I wasn't too encouraged 3 weeks ago, but my mood has graetly improved over the past 2 weeks.

[Sapper]

It sounds like the O's are assembling a cohesive group that will make intelligent decisions in a time efficient manner. Ritterpusch may have made valuable contributions, but if he was becoming a "roadblock" at getting things done, he has to go.

Every action from the FO thus far encourages me to believe that indecisiveness, ridiculous lowball offers, and "calculating when to begin planning the process" are a thing of the past. Once the WS is over, I'm curious to see where this goes. I wasn't too encouraged 3 weeks ago, but my mood has graetly improved over the past 2 weeks.
You know when I'll be convinced we're heading in a right direction? When we're dealing for free agents this winter and we don't hear any complaints about the Orioles low-balling and being unresponsive or the front office trying to reach Angelos in Europe or something.

[Wild Bill]

As good as Bedard can be, remember, he's yet to put a full season together in the big leagues and he's going to be 28. There were whispers coming out of the organization that he may not have the attitude to fulfill his promise.

I'm not saying I agree with this or not, just pointing out some things. But I would not be surprised to see Bedard included in a deal for a big bat and replaced by Millwood or Byrd.

Personally, with Mazzone on board, I'd like to see what Bedard does under his tutelage.

Again you are right on, as let's say there are some concerns that he is a "head case." They never found anything wrong with his knee, as he went on the DL after pitching 27 innings and giving up like 1 earned run. Maybe trade him while the value is high, although he was terrible the second half of the season, word is he is a "strange" character.

[Sapper]

Again you are right on, as let's say there are some concerns that he is a "head case." They never found anything wrong with his knee, as he went on the DL after pitching 27 innings and giving up like 1 earned run. Maybe trade him while the value is high, although he was terrible the second half of the season, word is he is a "strange" character.
I got lambasted on here for suggesting we trade Bedard while his stock was high before he went on the DL. People thought I was crazy but I figured his stock would never be higher than what it was in May.

[Sports Guy]

You're right about Bedard, and he would be the first guy I would trade out of Penn, Loewen, Dcab, Ray, etc.

SG...I still would not sign them both because with Mazzone here and the young talent we have coming up, I think that money for Millwood could be used to fill some other needs.

Wild Bill...Thanks as always for the info!

Right, that is the the other thing....Mazzone being here changes alot of things.

Yes, we need a true top of the rotation guy right now and if you get one, great. But with the fact that Mazzone is now here, you probably do not have to go overboard with spending money on pitching, especially with the stable of arms we are growing.

[Chavez Ravine]

... word is he is a "strange" character.

I think he's just Canadian

[Sports Guy]

Again you are right on, as let's say there are some concerns that he is a "head case." They never found anything wrong with his knee, as he went on the DL after pitching 27 innings and giving up like 1 earned run. Maybe trade him while the value is high, although he was terrible the second half of the season, word is he is a "strange" character.


I would think they deal him before DC and Penn.

[SilentJames]

Again you are right on, as let's say there are some concerns that he is a "head case." They never found anything wrong with his knee, as he went on the DL after pitching 27 innings and giving up like 1 earned run. Maybe trade him while the value is high, although he was terrible the second half of the season, word is he is a "strange" character.

According to certain radio personalities he is a pretty miserable person to be around.

But I'm not sure how valid that is.

[flyhighbirds]

I think these move of ousting Ritterpusch was made at the insistence of Flanagan and others in the organization. There is no evidence that PGA had any problems with Ritterpusch.

Beattie was the real problem with this organization. Everyone criticizes PA for interfering in the Burnett deal. The more I look back at that, it is too bad PA did not nix the Byrnes deal too.

[Sports Guy]

I think these move of ousting Ritterpusch was made at the insistence of Flanagan and others in the organization. There is no evidence that PGA had any problems with Ritterpusch.

Beattie was the real problem with this organization. Everyone criticizes PA for interfering in the Burnett deal. The more I look back at that, it is too bad PA did not nix the Byrnes deal too.


Let be clear...Ritterspusch resigned...He was not fired.

[stockpile]

You know when I'll be convinced we're heading in a right direction? When we're dealing for free agents this winter and we don't hear any complaints about the Orioles low-balling and being unresponsive or the front office trying to reach Angelos in Europe or something.

I agree with you whole heartedly. Right now, I'm encouraged, but I want to see the actual results before I'm <b>convinced</b>.

[flyhighbirds]

Tony, I heard you say something about Hudgens. Who is he? is he a guy we are pursuing?

[Belkast]

Let be clear...Ritterspusch resigned...He was not fired.
I think it was a forced thing

[Sports Guy]

I think it was a forced thing


Well, it probably was a resign or you are fired type thing....From what iw as told by someone very close to this situation, that is what it sounded like.

[Rockbird]

Bedard's new nickname: "Strange Brew". :D

[Tony-OH]

Tony, I heard you say something about Hudgens. Who is he? is he a guy we are pursuing?
He was the A's hitting coach for a number of years. He also has hitting program out that's available to the general public.

I like his approach in having hitters look in zones for pitches along the flight path of the thrown pitch. He also obviously is a OBP guy who stresses to work the pitchers.

[Rockbird]

He was the A's hitting coach for a number of years. He also has hitting program out that's available to the general public.

I like his approach in having hitters look in zones for pitches along the flight path of the thrown pitch. He also obviously is a OBP guy who stresses to work the pitchers.

The A's hitting coach and the Braves pitching coach is like a dream combination.

But unless I missed something, isn't Crowley coming back? So wouldn't it be 3rd base coach that needs to be filled?

[Cokeman]

The A's hitting coach and the Braves pitching coach is like a dream combination.

But unless I missed something, isn't Crowley coming back? So wouldn't it be 3rd base coach that needs to be filled?

So, lets see what Crowley can do in the 3rd base box....sounds ok to me.

[Sports Guy]

The A's hitting coach and the Braves pitching coach is like a dream combination.

But unless I missed something, isn't Crowley coming back? So wouldn't it be 3rd base coach that needs to be filled?


It has not been announced in what capacity Crow would be brought back though.

I wonder why that is.

[Rockbird]

So, lets see what Crowley can do in the 3rd base box....sounds ok to me.

I highly doubt that's happening.

[Cokeman]

I highly doubt that's happening.

Well, I doubt it as well...but I'd be open to almost anything to get a new hitting coach in here.

[8ripken2131]

Here we go- Post article on Ritterpusch's dismissal:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/24/AR2005102401577.html

[Witchy Chick]

As good as Bedard can be, remember, he's yet to put a full season together in the big leagues and he's going to be 28. There were whispers coming out of the organization that he may not have the attitude to fulfill his promise.



Again you are right on, as let's say there are some concerns that he is a "head case." They never found anything wrong with his knee, as he went on the DL after pitching 27 innings and giving up like 1 earned run. Maybe trade him while the value is high, although he was terrible the second half of the season, word is he is a "strange" character.

Bedard won't be 28 'til ST 2007. He just turned 26 this year (March). He will be 28 eventually, Tony. ;) Also, he had pitched 60 innings by the time of the knee injury. Those things being said, if the organization believes him to be a hypochondriac head case, it might be best to part with him. I would like to see what Mazzone can do (if anything) with him first, though. But, we might end up shooting ourselves in the foot (relatively high value now, possibly lower value later if he tanks in the first half 2006). It's a tough call.

Ohhhhh, and that hypochondria stuff? I thought Flanny defended Bedard at the time of the injury (citing his own knee problems back in the day)? Now, months after the fact, they don't believe Bedard was truly injured? :confused:


Witchy

[brachd]

Well, it probably was a resign or you are fired type thing....From what iw as told by someone very close to this situation, that is what it sounded like.


Good info. I'm only left to wonder whether it was PA's move or Flanny's. Either way, for the first time in years I see a front office with a direction.

[brachd]

Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-os24,1,7991939.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines)

According to team sources, Ritterpusch was asked to tone it down on a couple of occasions. Many other teams, most notably the Minnesota Twins and Atlanta Braves, use psychological testing, but neither received the attention that the Orioles did. Sources said that Orioles executives grew tired of being asked about something that they felt should have remained as a confidential means of evaluating players.

This is something I've been saying for a while. This kind of testing is VERY common for successful teams. Most, however, don't encounter the negative publicity (or any publicity at all) that the O's have had this offseason.

Also interesting is this:

An article about Ritterspusch and the Orioles' methods was set to run recently in The New Yorker magazine, but it was held because of Hurricane Katrina.

I think this type of testing would be good for the FO to use in some capacity. With Ritterpusch gone, maybe they could make it into what it should be- a piece of the puzzle and nothing more.

[Witchy Chick]

Here we go- Post article on Ritterpusch's dismissal:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/24/AR2005102401577.html

It's on the O's website (http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051024&content_id=1258828&vkey=news_bal&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal) also.


That process accelerated on Monday, when he [Flanagan] asked for the resignation of director of baseball information systems Dave Ritterpusch and his assistant, Ed Coblentz.
and

"What I felt, [public revealing of] internal information and how we use it, to me became an unnecessary distraction," Flanagan said. "It undermined his effectiveness. He brought a lot of positives, but I felt it was a time for a change."


Witchy

[Sports Guy]

"What I felt, [public revealing of] internal information and how we use it, to me became an unnecessary distraction," Flanagan said. "It undermined his effectiveness. He brought a lot of positives, but I felt it was a time for a change."


This goes back to what i said about the PA not liking the articles after the season.

[Why Not?]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-os24,1,7991939.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines

The Sun's story.

[MCO'sFan]

Good info. I'm only left to wonder whether it was PA's move or Flanny's. Either way, for the first time in years I see a front office with a direction.
I agree. The post says that his contract was not renewed. It seems to me that things are really improving. I have not seen the FA move this decisively since.....McPhail was in charge.

[Cokeman]

If he waves his arm as much as he had his hitters swinging the bats that may not be such a good idea. :eek:

Hmmm...good point....well then, I wonder what kind of announcer he would be...there has to be something! ;)

[brooks#5]

You think one of the reasons here is that they're trying to smooth things over with BJ Ryan and Parrish after what was printed in the Post? This would be a sign that they didn't pay attention to that internal memo, and would tell BJ we're serious about him--

[Belkast]

"What I felt, [public revealing of] internal information and how we use it, to me became an unnecessary distraction," Flanagan said. "It undermined his effectiveness. He brought a lot of positives, but I felt it was a time for a change."


This goes back to what i said about the PA not liking the articles after the season.
Again this wasn't about PGA. This was a Flanny decision.

[Tony-OH]

Bedard won't be 28 'til ST 2007. He just turned 26 this year (March). He will be 28 eventually, Tony. ;) Also, he had pitched 60 innings by the time of the knee injury. Those things being said, if the organization believes him to be a hypochondriac head case, it might be best to part with him. I would like to see what Mazzone can do (if anything) with him first, though. But, we might end up shooting ourselves in the foot (relatively high value now, possibly lower value later if he tanks in the first half 2006). It's a tough call.

Ohhhhh, and that hypochondria stuff? I thought Flanny defended Bedard at the time of the injury (citing his own knee problems back in the day)? Now, months after the fact, they don't believe Bedard was truly injured? :confused:
Witchy

Well he will be 28 EVENTUALLY, so technically I wasn't wrong. :)

Either way, the whispers are that the Orioles (and take that as you want) are not enthralled with Bedard's work ethic and attitude. Now, I will say those rumors weren't very loud when he was dominating earlier in the season last year, but they do persist. It'll be interesting to see whether he becomes trade bait for a power hitter.

[Tony-OH]

Again this wasn't about PGA. This was a Flanny decision.
This is a great point. I noticed this is the first time Flanagan said "I thought," instead of "we thought".

Very interesting and encouraging if you ask me.

[Sports Guy]

Again this wasn't about PGA. This was a Flanny decision.


May be true but Ritterspusch did upset PA.

[Belkast]

This is a great point. I noticed this is the first time Flanagan said "I thought," instead of "we thought".

Very interesting and encouraging if you ask me.
This is what I have been saying. Flanny has more control then any other person has had in the same position under PGA. Guys I can tell you, we are going to see a totally different FO. We haven't seen anything yet...wait for the series to be over.

[Belkast]

May be true but Ritterspusch did upset PA.
Maybe he did maybe he didn't but I didn't read any quotes from PGA about him.

[brooks#5]

Sounds like PA is Flanny's lapdog. ;)

[brachd]

This is what I have been saying. Flanny has more control then any other person has had in the same position under PGA. Guys I can tell you, we are going to see a totally different FO. We haven't seen anything yet...wait for the series to be over.


Signs are encouraging but it's too early to tell. I'm still a bit reserved about this one and while Flanny was vocal that it was his decision- what else is he gonna say? I seem to remember Syd Thrift (another guy who "had PA's ear") state that the moves during his tenure were his decision as well. Not everything is how it seems. Time will tell, but I'm semi-optamistic here.

[Cokeman]

Maybe he did maybe he didn't but I didn't read any quotes from PGA about him.

Not quotes from PGA, but this is from the Washington Post article:

One source close to the Orioles said Ritterpusch had alienated owner Peter Angelos by speaking publicly too often of his beliefs in psychological testing, which the owner believed put the franchise in a bad light.

"He was a little too public," the source said. "Peter didn't like him being too public."

Angelos did not return a phone call yesterday

[helloharv]

I have met Ritterpusch and his assitant Eddie a few times.I thought Dave was a good guy --He was out-spoken but he seemed to really believe his ideas.He would talk about his dislike for certain players and maybe they didn't like that or maybe he was just coming on a little too strong or maybe Flanny just wanted to go another direction? I would like to find more about the situation.

Eddie was a very nice guy.I thought he was very Realistic when talking about players expectations.He was young (30 ish?) so hopefully he finds another job.

[Belkast]

Signs are encouraging but it's too early to tell. I'm still a bit reserved about this one and while Flanny was vocal that it was his decision- what else is he gonna say? I seem to remember Syd Thrift (another guy who "had PA's ear") state that the moves during his tenure were his decision as well. Not everything is how it seems. Time will tell, but I'm semi-optamistic here.
Point taken...When you do realize....remember you heard it from me first ;)

[Belkast]

Not quotes from PGA, but this is from the Washington Post article:

One source close to the Orioles said Ritterpusch had alienated owner Peter Angelos by speaking publicly too often of his beliefs in psychological testing, which the owner believed put the franchise in a bad light.

"He was a little too public," the source said. "Peter didn't like him being too public."

Angelos did not return a phone call yesterday
Maybe they had a Mike Preston source :)

[Mackus]

As far as the Bedard debate goes, I would only trade him if we get back a true stud, like Miguel Cabrera. I don't think I would trade him for Dunn.

I think the character issues with Bedard are vastly overblown. None of this was an issue when he was near the AL lead in ERA. At worst he is just a slow healer, or maybe not too tough. At best, he's a legit #1 starter, he's got that good of stuff and he showed at the begining of the season that he can possess good enough command to pitch that way for an extended period.

I think with Mazzone working with him, he can have several great seasons. We've got him under club control, for very cheap, for the next 4 seasons, at the end of which he'll be 30. Thats still in his prime, and it'd be a shame to trade him away just as he enters his best years.

[Sports Guy]

Maybe he did maybe he didn't but I didn't read any quotes from PGA about him.


Well lets just say that my source is extremely close to the situation.

[Belkast]

Well lets just say that my source is extremely close to the situation.
All I'm a saying is that it was Flanny's decision. Did PGA not like the guy? Probably but he didn't influence Flannys decision.

[Sports Guy]

All I'm a saying is that it was Flanny's decision. Did PGA not like the guy? Probably but he didn't influence Flannys decision.


Again, Flanny may have had the final decision but lets just say that PA was not exactly going to stop him. PA was not happy about some of the things that happened before Ritterspusch left.

Flanny may have had the final say but you can bet PA said, i would prefer him gone but do what you want.

[Greg Pappas]

So we go after Millwood and AJ.

My thoughts exactly.

[Rockbird]

My thoughts exactly.

I think I was the first one to have those thoughts back in the Wild Bill "Hang on for the ride" thread....so nyahhh. :p

[scOtt]

I like [Hudgens'] approach in having hitters look in zones for pitches along the flight path of the thrown pitch.
Sounds Ted Williams-like...

[Greg Pappas]

You address the pitching needs first then trade for bats. Without good pitching doesn't matter what bats you sign.

Agreed, and btw Bill, thank you. :)

[Sapper]

This is what I have been saying. Flanny has more control then any other person has had in the same position under PGA. Guys I can tell you, we are going to see a totally different FO. We haven't seen anything yet...wait for the series to be over.
We've seen Steinbrenner step back from time to time only to reinsert himself time and again. Trust me, with the Orioles payroll, Steinbrenner would be just as much a disaster as PGA's reign has been.

No one here can promise that PGA won't keep his nose in the baseball decisions.

[Greg Pappas]

I think I was the first one to have those thoughts back in the Wild Bill "Hang on for the ride" thread....so nyahhh. :p

Oh yeah!! Well.... well... nyahhh to you too :D

[GeorgiaBird]

I would be surprised if we have targeted AJ and Millwood. My guess is it is AJ and Byrd, with Millwood as a plan B for AJ. I think we are going to be aggressive, but I doubt Plan A is to go after a Boras client. And I think there is a much better chance our new pitching coach would be pushing for Byrd than Millwood, based on what I have heard about how things went down last year when Cleveland signed Millwood. Leo definitely thinks the world of AJ, and Byrd worships him.

As for trading, if you can get some of these guys I think you have to look for the right deal for some of our arms. Not for a 35 year old 1Bman, but for a young position player. One thing the Braves have always done well is realize that prospects have two uses, and each are valuable. They can suppliment your team, or be used in a trade to suppliment your team. I have no problem with them exploring trading Bedard or even DC and Penn... whatever trades they make, and the value they receive, is of course up for debate when the time comes.

[Frobby]

With this move, pretty much everybody in the front office except Flanagan has been replaced in the last 12 months: Beattie, Rodgers, DeMacio, Kenney, Ritterpusch and Coblentz (not to mention Mazzilli, Miller and Hendricks). That's quite remarkable.

[bmorechop]

Not that I disagree with this decisions necessarily, but basically what you just said, to me, indicates that yes-men and lapdogs stay as long as they stay positive and toe the party line and that anyone or anything attached to anything negative gets the boot. Still, I stand by my gut reaction that PA has NOT learned his lesson and is keeping people around him who will be his lapdogs, Flanny at the top of the list -- Flanny may be the ONLY one left on the list at the end of the day. In any case, Flanny being at the head, to me, indicates Angelos really being at the head still.

Of course Angelos is still running the team. I don't understand why you guys think he would change. He still owns the team and he's still Angelos. He is NEVER going to get out of the way. That said, if he trusts Flanny then Flanny might be able to influence him more than Beattie did. Also, even Angelos can make decent FA signings every now and then. They won in '96 and '97 with Angelos making decisions...so it is possible. But still frustrating as hell.

[bmorechop]

May be true but Ritterspusch did upset PA.

Yeah, check out the Washington Post article. Their source says Angelos was uspet with Ritterspusch. But I think this was a good fire even if it did come from Angelos. The guy seemed like a political malcontent who wanted to play games in the press. Plus it is outright silly to act like a psychological test is going to drastically change your organization. From what I've read, most major league clubhouses have an icredible diversity of personalities, attitudes, habits, i.q.'s, etc. This Ritterspusch's self promotion was obviously causing distractions. Good move.

[BRobinsonfan]

Well, it probably was a resign or you are fired type thing....From what iw as told by someone very close to this situation, that is what it sounded like.

If it was "resign or be fired" what is the distinction you're trying to draw by saying "Let me be clear. He resigned." Doesn't sound like a lot of difference to me.

[weams]

If the Orioles had vastly improved under their tenure, I am sure Mr. Angelos would have at least offered to keep the GM tandem intact.

If Lee Mazilli had guided the team in a steadily upward dirrection, I am sure he would still be at the helm.

In business, no matter how enthusiasticly a new order is pursued, results are the benchmark.

If the testing and "CODE BREAKING" had led to several championships, I am sure no matter how much attention Mr. Ritterpusch had attracted, that he would still be the team mascot.

Evidently, some of the success of players and pitchers is in the physical realm and not the pyschological and hence, the Orioles, upon a rebuilding quest, chose a different direction than what had been the Ritterpusch path.

I have seen Executives abandon cherished ideas and employees when the ship has needed righted, that is all that this is.

[Sports Guy]

If it was "resign or be fired" what is the distinction you're trying to draw by saying "Let me be clear. He resigned." Doesn't sound like a lot of difference to me.


Its not...Someone said he was dismissed but actually he resigned but it was likely forced so what i said don't mean jack s#$%. LOL

[RZNJ]

Again you are right on, as let's say there are some concerns that he is a "head case." They never found anything wrong with his knee, as he went on the DL after pitching 27 innings and giving up like 1 earned run. Maybe trade him while the value is high, although he was terrible the second half of the season, word is he is a "strange" character.


What was all the business with the medial collateral ligament or whichever ligament they said it was?


Bedard, who was placed on the disabled list on May 26, said he will rehabilitate his knee "for another week or two, and probably two." An MRI of the knee showed the medical collateral ligament was still strained.

"They said it's healing, but slowly healing," Bedard said. "And I expected this. Usually, sprained knee ligaments take you out for four-to-six weeks. So this is not a surprise."

The above is from theorioles.com

[RZNJ]

As I said on another thread "hang on for the ride" as it will get very interesting after the WS. I want to clarify a couple of things as I never specified a $100 million payroll figure for next year, although if everything clicks it may approach that. Others here have correctly stated that there are many intangibles to free agent signings and major trades, however, the O's believe that NY and Boston are vulnerable next year and intend to make the run next year. As I stated in my other thread if things click they will spend the money.



Bottom line Angelos will spent $100 million next year on this team. He has to or the franchise value will fall from the $370 million level to the low $200's, given the new stadium in DC. Stay tuned this will be fun.

Well, you did mention a $100 million payroll but it sounded more like your opinion than insider information.

[Mark Carver]

If the Orioles had vastly improved under their tenure, I am sure Mr. Angelos would have at least offered to keep the GM tandem intact.

Even if the tandem had been successful. I for one believe that Beattie was gone (short of going to the playoffs). Successfull in my mind means, being in the race in September and over .500.

It been speculated all along, the Beattie was brought in the tutor Flannagan and that he woas going to be the eventual GM of the Orioles.

[Sapper]

Well, you did mention a $100 million payroll but it sounded more like your opinion than insider information.
Furthermore, I don't understand this statement:


Bottom line Angelos will spent $100 million next year on this team. He has to or the franchise value will fall from the $370 million level to the low $200's, given the new stadium in DC. Stay tuned this will be fun.

Didn't Angelos negotiate a fixed minimum selling price for the Orioles franchise and don't the Orioles have majority stake in MASN? I don't see how the franchise value could plummet.

On another note: Does anyone know if the Orioles can be sold separate from MASN? I could see Angelos trying to pull a stunt like that and leaving the Orioles poor while collecting his guaranteed 350M selling price.

[RZNJ]

Furthermore, I don't understand this statement:



Didn't Angelos negotiate a fixed minimum selling price for the Orioles franchise and don't the Orioles have majority stake in MASN? I don't see how the franchise value could plummet.

On another note: Does anyone know if the Orioles can be sold separate from MASN? I could see Angelos trying to pull a stunt like that and leaving the Orioles poor while collecting his guaranteed 350M selling price.

I will concede business acumen to many others around here before myself but it would seem that he would have to keep them separate or else the minimum 350 million price for the O's would lose some, if not all, of it's luster.

[Danielos38]

Baltimore Orioles: Announced the resignation of director of baseball information systems Dave Ritterpusch.


This is among AP's transactions. Don't see any details on the web just yet.
I am pretty up on the O's but have no clue who Ritterpusch is. Who is he?

[DrungoHazewood]

I am pretty up on the O's but have no clue who Ritterpusch is. Who is he?

Do a search on him using the link near the top of the messageboard. You'll find a bunch of threads discussing his ideas and influence.

[Sapper]

Do a search on him using the link near the top of the messageboard. You'll find a bunch of threads discussing his ideas and influence.
Hate to correct you, Drungo, but you used the plural form "ideas". To be more specific, Ritterpusch is a one-trick pony who hasn't had an original thought I'm aware of since he plucked Flanny, Palmer and Murray out of the drafts with his "test".

[hoosiers]

Sapper, I believe Angelos has a guarantee from MLB regarding the sales price - in other words, MLB would make up the difference. I know your feelings on PA, but if the MLB guarantees end with PA's ownership, then this franchise could really be in trouble post-PA.

My understanding is that Angelos (not the Os) own MASN. I certainly would not consider it a "stunt" if PA sold the team and not the network (see below), but I can think of several recent sales where the team and related assets (be it land or a TV network) were sold together - like in Texas, Boston and LA.

I think the potential value of the MASN network is absolutely huge - especially if PA passes along some ownership to the owners of the Capitals and Wizards. That network could buy rights to events of the UMd sports teams, UVa sports teams, ... PA might only be able to sell his stake in MASN when he sells the team, but it would not surprise me if PA's share of the MASN rivaled or surpassed the value of the team.

[Sapper]

Sapper, I believe Angelos has a guarantee from MLB regarding the sales price - in other words, MLB would make up the difference. I know your feelings on PA, but if the MLB guarantees end with PA's ownership, then this franchise could really be in trouble post-PA.

My understanding is that Angelos (not the Os) own MASN. I certainly would not consider it a "stunt" if PA sold the team and not the network (see below), but I can think of several recent sales where the team and related assets (be it land or a TV network) were sold together - like in Texas, Boston and LA.

I think the potential value of the MASN network is absolutely huge - especially if PA passes along some ownership to the owners of the Capitals and Wizards. That network could buy rights to events of the UMd sports teams, UVa sports teams, ... PA might only be able to sell his stake in MASN when he sells the team, but it would not surprise me if PA's share of the MASN rivaled or surpassed the value of the team.
OK, well then it sounds like PA has done exactly what I feared he would. He enriched himself personally based upon the hardship incurred by the Orioles, the State of MD and the fans and left us high and dry. HE owns MASN, not the Orioles. If this is true then he sold us up the river when he was bought off by MLB. Even if I assume that Angelos will use MASN money for Orioles payroll -- which is probably a big stretch -- then there's no guarantee that future owners will nor even that future owners will be making ANY money from MASN. This stinks. I'm surprised this didn't occur to me earlier.

[nadecir]

Angelos and his stockholders own the Orioles. It doesn't matter if MASN is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Orioles or not. Angelos and the stockholders can do whatever they want with both entities whether or not they are tied together in a corporate structure. Corporations sell off assets they own all the time, so Angelos could sell MASN without selling the Orioles in any scenario. Since they are private entities, Angelos can do what he wants from the money earned from either entity also.

Are we sure Angelos owns MASN by himself? I can't believe he would have been able to cut the other stockholders of the Orioles out of the deal.

A minimum selling price for the Orioles, if true, could be really problematic. Angelos could really play some games if he wanted. He could sell off assets without selling the team. He could take every penny earned by the Orioles and put it in his pocket, and withhold investment in the team. These things would drive down the value of the Orioles, but put money in Angelos' pocket today. If the Orioles are worth only one dollar when he wants to sell, Angelos would still be guaranteed his minimum price.

[hoosiers]

I don't know, Sapper. Everything with you is "worse than originally feared". :D I do agree with nadecir, though, that I would begrudge PA little if he considered the Os and the MASN separate assets.

I'm not sure how much better a deal PA could have achieved from MLB - in terms of looking out for future owners.

I guess we can hope for several things:

1) PA sells the team to an owner who invests heavily in the team and draws the fans every year to support a large payroll. I find this to be a dubious hope that Bmore can support a $100M payroll if there is an established and successful team in DC. Most teams have up and down cycles and I think the next owner will really struggle without those guarantees in a down cycle.
2) PA owns the team for a while and benefits from the guarantees and let's management run the team without significant interference - the best option (even though it might be the most unrealistic to some).

Sapper, I'm sure you can find a third option that you would prefer, but I think it is obvious that the best LT hope for the Orioles is to use the guarantees AND have a deep pocket owner in PA.

[Wild Bill]

Peter wants to win now as he is aging and feels an obligation to the community. Steinbrenner will go off the deep end this winter and Boston has their own problems as you take Manny/Ortiz away from that team and they are very average with no bullpen. Manny/Damon may not be there next year, we will be better off if Manny is there, unless he is part of a "blockbuster" trade with us. PA has total confidence in Flanny and loves Duquette, who can get things done quickly. PA was furious with the Vladie fiasco, given a few more dollars he would have signed well before the Angels ever got involved. Philosophy is take "your best shot quickly" and don't let the player's agent(Borus) defer us from obtaining our obbjective, which is to win next year given NY and Bosox vulnerbility. Hang on guys.

[Chavez Ravine]

Philosophy is take "your best shot quickly" and don't let the player's agent(Borus) defer us from obtaining our obbjective, which is to win next year given NY and Bosox vulnerbility. Hang on guys.
I have been as big a PA apologist as you can be (given such an irksome owner), but there is nothing that has happened over the last several years that suggests that is PA's philosophy.

[Wild Bill]

I have been as big a PA apologist as you can be (given such an irksome owner), but there is nothing that has happened over the last several years that suggests that is PA's philosophy.

Hey, people change as in look what happened to NY when Steinbrenner back off in the early 90's. You don't think all the front office changes suggest something is going on?

[bware]

Hey, people change as in look what happened to NY when Steinbrenner back off in the early 90's. You don't think all the front office changes suggest something is going on?

Steinbrenner didn't back off. He was suspended.



Manny/Damon may not be there next year, we will be better off if Manny is there, unless he is part of a "blockbuster" trade with us.

How would the Orioles be better off if Manny stays in Boston? Manny is a monster regardless of the fact that he's a little bit goofy and dislikes the Boston media. I'm not sure how I would feel if he were traded to the O's. I guess it would depend on what PA was willing to take the payroll to, how much of the contract the O's had to pick up and what players the O's would give up for him.

Thanks for all the info.

[Rockbird]

So Peter realises the end is near for him and he wishes to atone for his past transgressions. By the way, I don't know if that tidbit about Vlad should make me happy (well it's a good thing Angelos realised it was a debacle) or furious (thanks for realising this AFTER THE FACT). Probably the latter.

Wild Bill, you keep saying "steinbrenner is gonna go crazy this offseason". But what does that mean? Is he going to go all out spending? Is he going to trade everyone?

[Sports Guy]

PA was furious with the Vladie fiasco, given a few more dollars he would have signed well before the Angels ever got involved.


Then PA should have said, offer more money.


I know Beattie was looked at as such a slow starter but it is PA's fault to keep him in that position and to be blind to everything.

[Wild Bill]

So Peter realises the end is near for him and he wishes to atone for his past transgressions. By the way, I don't know if that tidbit about Vlad should make me happy (well it's a good thing Angelos realised it was a debacle) or furious (thanks for realising this AFTER THE FACT). Probably the latter.

Wild Bill, you keep saying "steinbrenner is gonna go crazy this offseason". But what does that mean? Is he going to go all out spending? Is he going to trade everyone?

PA was advised by Beattie that Vladie's signing was "in the bag." He was, obviously furious when the Angels signed him. Then last off season Peter was assured that Delgado was coming and name countless pitchers, etc, etc. Peter wants to get the contracts signed of the guys the O's want. Again everyone this off season will be very interesting. Oh yes, Steinbrenner may bring his payroll to $250 million. He is livid that the league screwed him with the luxury tax and he still can't win. He has some major financial and ego problems there. That will also be fun to watch.

[JohnD]

There's also rumors about Steinbrenner and worsening alzheimers too. If the committee in Tampa keeps running things, I doubt much may change in NY.

[Cokeman]

I had not heard that about him. Even someone like him doesn't deserve that fate.
And you're right about that committee - should ensure much happiness in other AL cities in the future.

I agree with that wholeheartedly...my grandmother went through that...my father is going through that...and my mother-in-law is in the early stages of it. It is a sad, sad, sad disease to watch progress. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

[Dr. FLK]

I agree with that wholeheartedly...my grandmother went through that...my father is going through that...and my mother-in-law is in the early stages of it. It is a sad, sad, sad disease to watch progress. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Well said.

But, what I do wish on him is "Kevin Brown: Part 2" this offseason!

[TonySoprano]

PA was advised by Beattie that Vladie's signing was "in the bag." He was, obviously furious when the Angels signed him. Then last off season Peter was assured that Delgado was coming and name countless pitchers, etc, etc. Peter wants to get the contracts signed of the guys the O's want. Again everyone this off season will be very interesting.Then why didn't he fire Beattie sooner? The Guerrero negotiations dragged on for several weeks. I wouldn't have much patience with an executive who kept telling me "it was in the bag." Beattie was in Florida on "personal business" the weekend the Angels closed the deal. Flanny was left behind to finalize the Palmeiro contract. By your account, Beattie dropped the ball big time again last year. Are we to believe that Angelos let this slide just long enough for Flanagan to grow into the job? I find Angelos equally at fault for allowing the situation to fester.

[Sports Guy]

Then why didn't he fire Beattie sooner? The Guerrero negotiations dragged on for several weeks. I wouldn't have much patience with an executive who kept telling me "it was in the bag." Beattie was in Florida on "personal business" the weekend the Angels closed the deal. Flanny was left behind to finalize the Palmeiro contract. By your account, Beattie dropped the ball big time again last year. Are we to believe that Angelos let this slide just long enough for Flanagan to grow into the job? I find Angelos equally at fault for allowing the situation to fester.


I also heard Beattie dropped the ball on the Sexson negotiations. Apparently, his "pitch" to become an Oriole was very poor and he showed zero enthusiasm.

He was also the one who was very slow in contract negotiations.

For PA to not have seen this or know this is just as poor as Beattie actually doing it.

[Max Power]

Peter wants to win now as he is aging and feels an obligation to the community. Steinbrenner will go off the deep end this winter and Boston has their own problems as you take Manny/Ortiz away from that team and they are very average with no bullpen. Manny/Damon may not be there next year, we will be better off if Manny is there, unless he is part of a "blockbuster" trade with us.
I fail to see how the Orioles are better off if Manny is still in Boston next year. I don't care who they trade for but I dont see them getting that kind of production back next year. Even with his supposed "dogging it" for a couple weeks he still had 45 home runs, 144 RBI, an OPS of .982, and an OPS+ of 156. I can see how people think that Boston is ripe for a decline next year but the reason certainly isnt because they have Manny Ramirez in the lineup.

[Sports Guy]

I fail to see how the Orioles are better off if Manny is still in Boston next year. I don't care who they trade for but I dont see them getting that kind of production back next year. Even with his supposed "dogging it" for a couple weeks he still had 45 home runs, 144 RBI, an OPS of .982, and an OPS+ of 156. I can see how people think that Boston is ripe for a decline next year but the reason certainly isnt because they have Manny Ramirez in the lineup.


Could there be a Wells and Manny for Anderson, Donnelly, Kotchman, Santana or McPherson deal in the works?(or something along those lines)

[TonySoprano]

I also heard Beattie dropped the ball on the Sexson negotiations. Apparently, his "pitch" to become an Oriole was very poor and he showed zero enthusiasm.

He was also the one who was very slow in contract negotiations.

For PA to not have seen this or know this is just as poor as Beattie actually doing it.
As you note, Beattie may indeed have been the main problem, but he didn't do this all in a vacuum. Flanagan was with him when they met with Sexson and his agent during the winter meetings. "Geographic preference" was the story reported at the time.
Team officials confirmed yesterday that the Orioles presented a three-year offer to Sexson's agent, Casey Close, believed to be worth about $30 million. They were contemplating a four-year offer but never got that far in negotiations.

"They got to a certain point, and they sort of disappeared," said vice president Mike Flanagan, "and that's when we assumed they were rolling along with somebody else."

The Orioles made a run at Sexson but figured their chances of signing him were minimal because he's a Northwest native and resides in Vancouver, Wash.

"You reach a point and then it becomes, as you're seeing more and more with guys who have been around a little bit, a geographical preference," Flanagan said. "You can't compete with that." Source - The Sun - December 16, 2004 (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles16dec16,1,4684374.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball)


Flanagan and Casey Close, agent for Sexson, said the two sides had a very positive meeting that left the Orioles thinking they had a good opportunity to sign the first baseman. Baltimore made an offer to Sexson, and the sides were scheduled to talk again soon. Flanagan said that Sexson expressed a desire to visit Baltimore sometime this week. Source - Washington Post - December 12, 2004 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58507-2004Dec11.html)

[olehippi]

Not that I disagree with this decisions necessarily, but basically what you just said, to me, indicates that yes-men and lapdogs stay as long as they stay positive and toe the party line and that anyone or anything attached to anything negative gets the boot. Still, I stand by my gut reaction that PA has NOT learned his lesson and is keeping people around him who will be his lapdogs, Flanny at the top of the list -- Flanny may be the ONLY one left on the list at the end of the day. In any case, Flanny being at the head, to me, indicates Angelos really being at the head still.

Sapper....I totally disagree. I think PA has felt the heat from Orioles fans, and as a fan himself, is tired of losing. If, as you say, he has not learned, things would be status quo. The changes made are positive, and somewhat startling...at least for the Orioles. Let's wait to see what happens after the WS before we form negative conclusions. I think you might be pleasantly surprised.

[TonySoprano]

Oh yes, Steinbrenner may bring his payroll to $250 million. He is livid that the league screwed him with the luxury tax and he still can't win. He has some major financial and ego problems there. That will also be fun to watch.Steinbrenner may add close to $40 million to his payroll despite the fact that the strategy is a "failure?" (http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=447640&postcount=133) Interesting.

By the way it will be worth the price of admission to watch the fireworks in the Yankee organization if they lose to the Angels tonight. Hold on tight, as it will change the way teams spend money on players in the future. George's "in your face" attitude to the rest of baseball will be proven a failure.
The Yankees are saving close to $27 million next year by subtracting Brown and Williams. Leiter is gone as well, and possibly, Tom Gordon. The Yankees have seven starters on the payroll for next season. Torre has said he doesn't believe they will be in the market for pitching this winter. They already have big contracts at first base, shortstop, third base, and right field. All this leads to the question, how could the Yankees spend close to $70 million this offseason to get to the $250 million payroll you propose?

[Sapper]

Steinbrenner may add close to $40 million to his payroll despite the fact that the strategy is a "failure?" (http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=447640&postcount=133) Interesting.

The Yankees are saving close to $27 million next year by subtracting Brown and Williams. Leiter is gone as well, and possibly, Tom Gordon. The Yankees have seven starters on the payroll for next season. Torre has said he doesn't believe they will be in the market for pitching this winter. They already have big contracts at first base, shortstop, third base, and right field. All this leads to the question, how could the Yankees spend close to $70 million this offseason to get to the $250 million payroll you propose?
The problem I find with Wild Bill's "inside information" is that he doesn't separate what he "knows" from his opinions that are no better than yours or mine. This isn't meant as a dig, I just have to take what he says is "gospel truth" with a grain of salt.

[bigbird]

The problem I find with Wild Bill's "inside information" is that he doesn't separate what he "knows" from his opinions that are no better than yours or mine. This isn't meant as a dig, I just have to take what he says is "gospel truth" with a grain of salt.

Defending Wild Bill, when I was getting info from my contact it was only what he was told or hearing. A big problem is things change so darm fast. The best laid plans can go out the window if a player decides to sign with his current team or a player becomes available in trade. The fact he's hearing info is encouraging. The fact he's reporting is even better. About a year and a half someone here had a great source and most mocked him. I spoke with the source and trust me this guy was in the line of fire concerning Oriole transactions.

Thanks Wild Bill for the info....Now here;s a couple things I've heard recently:

Doubtful we'll go over board to sign BJ

Front office really likes Paul Byrd. "great fit talent and $$$$ wise for the O's"

I asked about Brian Giles and was told he hasn't heard his name mentioned.

We are looking to sign a front line catcher and Hernandez is the name being
mentioned most.

That's all I asked due to all front office restructuring going on and termination of what seem to be office sources.

Time will tell...I'm encouraged thus far and will hold on like Wild Bill says. I'm hoping it's Mr. Toad's Wild Ride we're on and not Small World.

[Sports Guy]

If we sign Byrd to a 2 year deal and give Hernandez a 3-4 year deal for 8+ million a year, this will be a poor offseason...One that we will regret.

[RZNJ]

Defending Wild Bill, when I was getting info from my contact it was only what he was told or hearing. A big problem is things change so darm fast. The best laid plans can go out the window if a player decides to sign with his current team or a player becomes available in trade. The fact he's hearing info is encouraging. The fact he's reporting is even better. About a year and a half someone here had a great source and most mocked him. I spoke with the source and trust me this guy was in the line of fire concerning Oriole transactions.

Thanks Wild Bill for the info....Now here;s a couple things I've heard recently:
.


I don't think anyone is questioning WildBill as a valuable asset with insider info. We all appreciate what he brings to the table. Perhaps some of us have a fault with his presentation sometimes. Instead of "this will happen" it might be better to say "this is what I hear" or "as of now this is the plan". Case in point:



Originally Posted by Wild Bill
Here is what will happen---------Angelos will fire everyone other than Flanagan, Elrod and Dempsey. Dempsey or Davey Johnson or a Latino will manage the team next year with Flanagan as GM.

[hoosiers]

Thanks for sharing, bb.

I really like Ramon Hernandez. He would be a nice addition to the team.

I have mixed feelings on Byrd, but he's been effective for several years.

I am not surprised we are not playing for Giles. We'd be wasting our time, IMO.

I think we will make a major effort for Burnett.

Interesting that there does not seem to be many names on how to improve our OF, but there are not many names mentioned here either.

[Sports Guy]

Thanks for sharing, bb.

I really like Ramon Hernandez. He would be a nice addition to the team.

I have mixed feelings on Byrd, but he's been effective for several years.




Hernandez is a good option for the contract Javy got...Not for 4/36.

Byrd is productive when he actually pitches...He has had 3 years in his career of 200IP and the rest of the time he has barely had 100 IP.

He can not stay healthy for alot of the time he pitches and at age 35, that will likely not get any better.

If you can sign him for one year and you determine that Maine would be better served for the bullpen, thats fine with me(as long as you trade Rlo).

But, if you have to give Byrd 2 years, i will guarantee you that we will be saying on here next winter that we wish we did not have his contract on the team and that we wish he was not taking up a roster spot.

[bigbird]

Hernandez is a good option for the contract Javy got...Not for 4/36.

Byrd is productive when he actually pitches...He has had 3 years in his career of 200IP and the rest of the time he has barely had 100 IP.

He can not stay healthy for alot of the time he pitches and at age 35, that will likely not get any better.

If you can sign him for one year and you determine that Maine would be better served for the bullpen, thats fine with me(as long as you trade Rlo).

But, if you have to give Byrd 2 years, i will guarantee you that we will be saying on here next winter that we wish we did not have his contract on the team and that we wish he was not taking up a roster spot.


Remember you can easily trade a pitcher like Byrd at the deadline. It's icing on the cake to the receiving team if he under their control for another season.

[Sapper]

Defending Wild Bill, when I was getting info from my contact it was only what he was told or hearing. A big problem is things change so darm fast. The best laid plans can go out the window if a player decides to sign with his current team or a player becomes available in trade. The fact he's hearing info is encouraging. The fact he's reporting is even better.....
I'm not disparaging his sourcing or info, just pointing out it's hard to differentiate what he's heard from what he just thinks. With you, I always know. That's all.

[bigbird]

I'm not disparaging his sourcing or info, just pointing out it's hard to differentiate what he's heard from what he just thinks. With you, I always know. That's all.


I understand your point.

[TonySoprano]

I'm not disparaging his sourcing or info, just pointing out it's hard to differentiate what he's heard from what he just thinks. With you, I always know. That's all.
I'm on record saying I think WB is legit. However, while he may have sources on the Orioles, I think the Yankees talk is more speculation on his part. I agree with your main point, it's easy to confuse the two, fwiw.

[jiminnj]

I'm hoping it's Mr. Toad's Wild Ride we're on and not Small World.

Mr. Toad's Wild Ride is still one of my favorites in Disneyland, but remember where you end up in that ride. :eek: I hope the Os ride ends up in a better place.

[Mark Carver]

Byrd is productive when he actually pitches...He has had 3 years in his career of 200IP and the rest of the time he has barely had 100 IP.

He can not stay healthy for alot of the time he pitches and at age 35, that will likely not get any better.

Just to play devil-advocate, and no I'm not advising that they sign a 35 year itcher to a big time contract. But I think you are coming down too hard on the injury issue because "the rest of the time he has barely had 100 IP". When you combine his major/minor innings I see a different picture than you.

Well, obviously there was a major injury issue (bones spurs according to ESPN) that canned his 2003 and most of his 2004 seasons. Probably an injury occured in 2001 and I suspect that in 2000 he may have had an injury of some sort. In 1996 and 1997 he was in the bullpen, not a starter. The rest of his minor league career he was a starter.

Total IP in the majors and minors for the year.

2005 - 204.1 (31 games, 31 starts)
2004 - 135.1 (23 games, 23 starts)
2003 - out for the season
2002 - 228.1 (33 games, 33 starts)
2001 - 163.1 (27 games, 25 starts)
2000 - 109.0 (20 games, 18 starts)
1999 - 199.2 (32 games, 32 starts)
1998 - 159.1 (26 games, 25 starts)
1997 - 53.0-IP (31 games, 4 starts)
1996 - 54.1-IP (43 games, 0 starts)
1995 - 109.0-IP (39 games 10 starts)
1994 - 176.0-IP (30 games, 24 starts)

Career Minor/Major League numbers (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/paul-byrd.shtml)

[Sports Guy]

Just to play devil-advocate, and no I'm not advising that they sign a 35 year itcher to a big time contract. But I think you are coming down too hard on the injury issue because "the rest of the time he has barely had 100 IP". When you combine his major/minor innings I see a different picture than you.

Well, obviously there was a major injury issue (bones spurs according to ESPN) that canned his 2003 and most of his 2004 seasons. Probably an injury occured in 2001 and I suspect that in 2000 he may have had an injury of some sort. In 1996 and 1997 he was in the bullpen, not a starter. The rest of his minor league career he was a starter.

Total IP in the majors and minors for the year.

2005 - 204.1 (31 games, 31 starts)
2004 - 135.1 (23 games, 23 starts)
2003 - out for the season
2002 - 228.1 (33 games, 33 starts)
2001 - 163.1 (27 games, 25 starts)
2000 - 109.0 (20 games, 18 starts)
1999 - 199.2 (32 games, 32 starts)
1998 - 159.1 (26 games, 25 starts)
1997 - 53.0-IP (31 games, 4 starts)
1996 - 54.1-IP (43 games, 0 starts)
1995 - 109.0-IP (39 games 10 starts)
1994 - 176.0-IP (30 games, 24 starts)

Career Minor/Major League numbers (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/paul-byrd.shtml)


Fair enough but i do not want to pay Byrd 5 million to pitch half of his innings in Bowie.

BB, you can not trade him if he is hurt.

For one year, i could live with him but i think with Mazzone here that Maine can do a similar job for alot less money.

But again, if you trade Rlo and you want to start Maine in the pen and you can sign Byrd for one year, i am all for it. If you give him 2 years, we will regret it IMO.

[RZNJ]

Fair enough but i do not want to pay Byrd 5 million to pitch half of his innings in Bowie.

BB, you can not trade him if he is hurt.

For one year, i could live with him but i think with Mazzone here that Maine can do a similar job for alot less money.

But again, if you trade Rlo and you want to start Maine in the pen and you can sign Byrd for one year, i am all for it. If you give him 2 years, we will regret it IMO.

Expecting Maine to do what Byrd has done the last few years is a long, long, long shot! Mazzone can tell him to change speeds but he can't go out there and throw an effective changeup or a sharp breaking ball for him.

[Sports Guy]

Expecting Maine to do what Byrd has done the last few years is a long, long, long shot! Mazzone can tell him to change speeds but he can't go out there and throw an effective changeup or a sharp breaking ball for him.


I will put the faith in MAzzone that he can teach him this stuff.

If Byrd is healthy and pitches well, he will give us a 3.75-4 ERA. Do i think Maine does that? No but i do think he can give us a 4.25-4.6 ERA and do it for 300K and be a good guy to either trade or help get valuable innings as for the future.

Plus, it will take 2 years to sign Byrd...That means, if you sign Burnett or Millwood, that you have to get rid of Rlo AND Chen very soon because of the emergence of our pitching...Now, having too much pitching is not a bad thing and you can always trade it but until this team shows they can walk and chew gum at the same time, i have doubt they can pull off trades and signings at the same time.

[bigbird]

There's also rumors about Steinbrenner and worsening alzheimers too. If the committee in Tampa keeps running things, I doubt much may change in NY.


He just doesn't look well. That's such a horrible condition.

[Sports Guy]

I will go on record as saying that they will regret signing Byrd to anything more than a 1-year deal.


I went on record first, so there. :D :p

[weams]

I went on record first, so there. :D :p

I am not sure that I want Paul Byrd even if it is only for one year.
Ok, he is a major league 4.5 era, 200 inning pitcher. Or was.
Once.
And maybe again.

I will not jump for joy at this blockbuster signing.

[DoobyDoo]

I am not sure that I want Paul Byrd even if it is only for one year.
Ok, he is a major league 4.5 era, 200 inning pitcher. Or was.
Once.
And maybe again.

What? The last three years he's had ERA's under 4 every one of those years and two out of those three he threw 200+ IP.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3307

[weams]

What? The last three years he's had ERA's under 4 every one of those years and two out of those three he threw 200+ IP.

I stand corrected

[Sapper]

OK, well then it sounds like PA has done exactly what I feared he would. He enriched himself personally based upon the hardship incurred by the Orioles, the State of MD and the fans and left us high and dry. HE owns MASN, not the Orioles. If this is true then he sold us up the river when he was bought off by MLB. Even if I assume that Angelos will use MASN money for Orioles payroll -- which is probably a big stretch -- then there's no guarantee that future owners will nor even that future owners will be making ANY money from MASN. This stinks. I'm surprised this didn't occur to me earlier.
Wish I hadn't said this now.....

[Nuclear Dish]

Wish I hadn't said this now.....

I'm sorry, did I miss something? What do you mean?

BTW, one of my inside sources recently sent me a copy of Ritterpusch's organizational report for 2004-5. I was expecting it to have all kinds of insight that isn't normally for public consumption.

I cannot begin to tell you how disappointed a was. It was the type of thing I could have written when I was 12 years old. It had so little statistical weight to it, that I couldn't believe this guy was in the baseball operations department. Let me put it this way: the knowledge on this board FAR outweights anything I saw in that report.

I was so disgusted by it that I have now misplaced it. I will have to track it down and give excerpts to show what I mean. But just to summarize, it's really a good thing that Ritterpusch is out of the organization. The reliance we had on him makes me pretty sick.