What I was told today......

[Belkast]

Wow so many people on the board tonight I hope you all won't be disappointed. Please keep in mind these things are what I have been told.....so take it for what it is worth.

It seems that it is very possible Bedard will be dealt this offseason as he is the topic for Philly and Cincy. As I know right know we are discussing Bedard for Abreu as well as Bedard for Dunn. I was told that we expect other teams to come into play. This could get real interesting at the meetings.

I was also told that Nomar should be annouced along with Byrd at the meetings. We are also in discussions with Texas and Cincy about RLopez for A. Gonzalez as well as Pena. Just a prediction but I can see a 3-way deal forming between us,Texas, and Cincy. I was also told that we have proposed more than 1 deal to Burnett. It seems that we still feel we have a good shoot of landing him. This really surprises me considering the deal Bj received. Lastly, we are in the beginning stages of talks with Farnsworth as well as Gordon, although Gordoms seems unlikely at this point.

The impression that I am getting strongly has us making major headlines at the meetings. Get ready Folks the next couple of weeks should be alot of fun.

[DoobyDoo]

Thanks for the info. Sounds interesting.

[mapierce]

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to seeing Nosemar in an O's uniform. He looked good in Wrigley at the games I went to when he was healthy at the end of the season. I am assuming we are signing him to an incentive based contract, correct? Thanks again.

m

[TonySoprano]

Thanks, as always, Belkast.

I thought Detroit was "going to the mattresses" for Farnworth and were going to be very competitive. They are another team who could throw around "crazy money."


Best bet: Kyle Farnsworth who will get a big -- very big -- three-year offer from the Tigers.Source - Detroit News (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051127/SPORTS0104/511270382/1129)

[theearl]

Thank you for these wonderful presents Santa, I mean Belkast. The number of responses to this thread is going to add up quick. If half of what you say comes true, then I would be dying for spring training to start already.

[Sports Guy]

As always, thanks Belkast...Keep the info coming.

Do you know if the Orioles want Dunn or Abreu more?

[brachd]

Wow so many people on the board tonight I hope you all won't be disappointed. Please keep in mind these things are what I have been told.....so take it for what it is worth.

It seems that it is very possible Bedard will be dealt this offseason as he is the topic for Philly and Cincy. As I know right know we are discussing Bedard for Abreu as well as Bedard for Dunn. I was told that we expect other teams to come into play. This could get real interesting at the meetings.

I was also told that Nomar should be annouced along with Byrd at the meetings. We are also in discussions with Texas and Cincy about RLopez for A. Gonzalez as well as Pena. Just a prediction but I can see a 3-way deal forming between us,Texas, and Cincy. I was also told that we have proposed more than 1 deal to Burnett. It seems that we still feel we have a good shoot of landing him. This really surprises me considering the deal Bj received. Lastly, we are in the beginning stages of talks with Farnsworth as well as Gordon, although Gordoms seems unlikely at this point.

The impression that I am getting strongly has us making major headlines at the meetings. Get ready Folks the next couple of weeks should be alot of fun.

Thanks for the info Belkast. Very interesting that we've begun to shop Bedard around the league. I'm not against trading him in the right deal, but in my opinion we should now push hard for Burnett to stabalize the rotation. I would overpay more for Burnett than guys like Giles or Milwood because of his age and potential upside.

[Sports Guy]

What kind of contracts are we looking at giving Byrd and Nomar?

[Belkast]

As always, thanks Belkast...Keep the info coming.

Do you know if the Orioles want Dunn or Abreu more?
My gut feeling thinks Dunn.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Belkast your post was sooooo much more fun then Big Bird's, thank you, now I wont be depressed while writing my paper.

[Belkast]

What kind of contracts are we looking at giving Byrd and Nomar?
Byrd 2 years with an option
Nomar 1 year with an option

[mcneck]

Sounds good thanks for the info

[Sports Guy]

Byrd 2 years with an option
Nomar 1 year with an option


Wild Bill thinks they will go 3 years for Byrd...Do you get that impression as well?

Also, if they sign Hernandez and trade for Gonzo, what happens to Javy?

[inmiggywetrust]

Thanks Belkast. It all seems good, I would like to get Nomar. Where have you heard he will play if signed?

[Sports Guy]

Also Belkast(and i am sorry for the questions), did you hear anything about Todd Jones?

[Hank Scorpio]

My gut feeling thinks Dunn.

Wouldn't it take more than Bedard & Gibbons to get Dunn, though? If not, then this is easily a no brainer.

[o'sman458202233]

Thanks as always Belkast. So who would everyone here rather have, Dunn or Abreu. I'd personally like Abreu.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Wild Bill thinks they will go 3 years for Byrd...Do you get that impression as well?

Also, if they sign Hernandez and trade for Gonzo, what happens to Javy?

I would think DH if not traded.

P.S. 100 posts!! Watch out SG I'm catching up to you

[Hank Scorpio]

Belkast for President! ;)

[TyCobb]

Thanks Belkast love the post. Quick question: What is Cincy looking for to get Dunn?

[brachd]

Belkast-
Any idea how competetive our intitial offer to Burnett was?

[bigbird]

Any word on where they're planning on playing Nomar? I like the Dunn deal better too. Thanks for the info....

[Boston Dave]

worth waiting for. Thanks, B!

[bigbird]

Wild Bill thinks they will go 3 years for Byrd...Do you get that impression as well?

Also, if they sign Hernandez and trade for Gonzo, what happens to Javy?

I was told to pencil Javy in as the starting DH and he'll catch once or twice a week and maybe play a few at 1B. We'll also be trading him at the deadline of we're out of contention.

[Belkast]

I don't know specifics about positions or money for any of the deals. Guys I can't possibly answer all of your questions so forgive me if I don't answer all of you. It seems Bedard's trade value is very high right now and given is toughness is in serious question with us I think he most likely goes. I think RLopez most likely goes as well.

[BaltimOrioles]

...don't have words for how much hope it gives us O's fans. We are usually on the outside looking in, but this year your posts make me think otherwise. Also, have they told Nomah what position he's going to be playing? I'd prefer him at 3B and Mora in LF, but i would assume the O's want the opposite.

[33rdst]

Belkast thanks for the info. This is the most fun I've had on this board in years. If Flanagan can pull this off it will easily surpass the Tejada and Javy signing of two years ago. Thanks again.

[utvolzac]

I think I'd rather have Abreu. Since he has no geographic ties to other major league teams, we might be able to keep him here. Although he doesn't have the raw power of Dunn, he's a better all around player.

Abreu & Pena (if we could get him) would be a nice addition to the middle of our lineup.

[orioles77]

If all of this falls through like Belkast is saying. I would be the happiest guy in the world. Oh yeah, in my opinion I hope that we go for Dunn instead of Abreu.

[joecap]

Thanks to Belkast, BB and WildBill for sharing their info and thoughts.

Really appreciate the scoops.

Ready to hang on for the ride.

[Matthew]

Belkast, do you think Jay Gibbons will be part of a trade package with Bedard or do you think he'll be involved in a seperate deal, possibly for a starter or reliever? Bigbird is saying he WILL be dealt.

Wild Bill has made numerous references to a Manny Ramirez blockbuster. Any news there?

Thanks, for all your info and insight. We greatly appreciate you and your source. :D

[Belkast]

Belkast, do you think Jay Gibbons will be part of a trade package with Bedard or do you think he'll be involved in a seperate deal, possibly for a starter or reliever? Bigbird is saying he WILL be dealt.

Wild Bill has made numerous references to a Manny Ramirez blockbuster. Any news there?

Thanks, for all your info and insight. We greatly appreciate you and your source. :D

I think Gibbons would be in a package.


I was told Manny is a false rumor. But, Who know's?

[Sports Guy]

I think Gibbons would be in a package.


I was told Manny is a false rumor. But, Who know's?


Do you think we will give Byrd 3 years if needs be?

Will they trade Javy now if they sign Hernandez and get Gonzo or Dunn for first?

[Mashed Potatoes]

Abreu, Byrd, Farnsworth, Nomahhh, Burnett. Who said we couldn't get the payroll up to 100 million!!!!!

[Belkast]

Do you think we will give Byrd 3 years if needs be?

Will they trade Javy now if they sign Hernandez and get Gonzo or Dunn for first?
I think they would give Byrd 3 if necessary.

Not sure on Javy

[Matthew]

I think Gibbons would be in a package.


I was told Manny is a false rumor. But, Who know's?

Thanks.

We seem to really be high on Adrian Gonzalez and Ramon Hernandez, as we should be. It seems like the O's really want these guys.

Are you going to the Winter Meetings?

[cindyluvsbrady]

I would really really love to hear some happy news! :)

[Sports Guy]

I think they would give Byrd 3 if necessary.




They aren't worried about Byrd's injury history?

[DoobyDoo]

It seems Bedard's trade value is very high right now and given is toughness is in serious question with us I think he most likely goes. I think RLopez most likely goes as well.

So, we're looking to trade both Bedard and (R) Lopez? That would be interesting.

[Sports Guy]

And what about Giles? I do not get that either....Why is age seemingly a concern with Giles but not Byrd?

[TyCobb]

I don't think we could get Giles he is a west coast guy. Byrd has pitched for Leo before so I think Leo wants Byrd. I see Giles going to Altanta after Furcal leaves.

[cindyluvsbrady]

I do not like the idea of trading Jay. :(

[TyCobb]

Gibby shouldn't be traded. If all these teams want Gibby maybe the others know more about our players then our own front office.

[mexpunk609]

Forgive me for sounding like the lone pessimist here, not my intention...

I'm been monitoring this board for a while, don't post too often..but I've seen many guys with supposed inside scoops such as Belkast and Wild Bill in my day on the MLB boards and a few others. Now being the feedback for these guys is so positive, I can't nor do I want to accuse them of any false leads. But I'm still curious and still would like to know: What credibility is there that I may know of? Any past successes with predictions that these posters have?

[TyCobb]

The firing of Maz and the hiring of Duquette. Thats what I remember, but the winter meetings are here in a week so we will soon find out.

[Sports Guy]

Forgive me for sounding like the lone pessimist here, not my intention...

I'm been monitoring this board for a while, don't post too often..but I've seen many guys with supposed inside scoops such as Belkast and Wild Bill in my day on the MLB boards and a few others. Now being the feedback for these guys is so positive, I can't nor do I want to accuse them of any false leads. But I'm still curious and still would like to know: What credibility is there that I may know of? Any past successes with predictions that these posters have?


Wild Bill reported on here that Maz would get fired before it was announced.

They have both been right on with who they are saying the Orioles would go after.

They have good sources...No need to doubt them.

[olehippi]

All this sounds incredible....almost TOO good to be true. I'm not doubting Belkast's info, but what we want and what we get.....well, guess we just wait and see.

[DoobyDoo]

Belkast also said that we had offered Byrd a two year deal with an option and a few days later sunspot.net reported the same thing.

[Ruzious]

Thank you, Belkast. I will have happy dreams tonight.

Btw, with the contracts being given out, Byrd is going to cost more than the 2 year/ $10-$13 mil that somebody posted the other day.

[Rockbird]

Boy, I sure hope this report is true. With the way our sources change their tune almost daily it's hard to get real optimistic for long though.

I'm very happy they're pursuing a trade for Adam Dunn. He's young, has massive power and most importantly comes cheap leaving plenty of money free if they're serious about pursuing Burnett afterall, which I hope they are, especially if they're trading Bedard. I would not be upset with Abreu but I still think Dunn has more upside, and of course Abreu's contract is hefty and would likely impede splurging on Burnett, if that is their intention.
I'm also liking the talks with Kyle Farnsworth. He was my choice for closer ever before BJ Ryan signed with Toronto. I would offer him 3/21.
The Byrd and Nomar deals sound quite reasonable. I don't mind Byrd for 2 years, and Nomar for a one year trial is fine with me.

I'm hoping all this talk of wanting to make big headlines at the Winter Meetings is true.

[Frobby]

No love for Bedard? I guess he's not untouchable, but I would hate to give him up.

[MJA3488]

Hey everyone, good to see the spirits picking up a little here. As of now i dont have anything to contribute to the rumor mill, but I SHOULD have some solid info coming in soon and like usual, Ill keep you guys up to speed. I really hope its as interesting of an offseason as I think it will be....

[MJA3488]

Forgive me for sounding like the lone pessimist here, not my intention...

I'm been monitoring this board for a while, don't post too often..but I've seen many guys with supposed inside scoops such as Belkast and Wild Bill in my day on the MLB boards and a few others. Now being the feedback for these guys is so positive, I can't nor do I want to accuse them of any false leads. But I'm still curious and still would like to know: What credibility is there that I may know of? Any past successes with predictions that these posters have?

I post very rarely, but I do have some very strong connections as well, others will tell you. But yea, there are some rumors that appear here that make sense, others that are just way off.

[Rockbird]

Hi, MJA. Good to see you back. We're blessed to have so many connections posting here at once. I know you said you will provide more info later but for now, quite simply do you think we have reason to be optimistic or are we probably set for disappointment?

[MJA3488]

Hi, MJA. Good to see you back. We're blessed to have so many connections posting here at once. I know you said you will provide more info later but for now, quite simply do you think we have reason to be optimistic or are we probably set for disappointment?

Gut feeling is yes. I really believe that. My source has told me over and over again how committed PA is to winning. He knows him on a very personal level and has way before he owned the orioles. Anyway, like i said, i really believe he is committed to winning. BUT, and theres always a BUT....dont look for long contracts to pitcher (IE no way Ryan was getting a 5 yr deal) or more than 1 year long contracts to injury prone players (IE Nomar more than a year). I would also be surprised if we ever went after another player at the end of their career (IE Sosa or Palmeiro). Other things I can say, just that Im not sure I mentioned here but Im sure most of you know already- Maz was more or less given the job because of PA's confidence in Flan/Bettie he was never his guy and loves Perlazzo (as well as Dempsey). I know that PA wants a bat, and I can almost gaurantee he will get one, as well as a veteran pitcher. I have to say that I would be surprised if he was onboard for signing Nomar, doesnt mean that we wont get him, I just dont think that he is his type of guy. Anyway, ill see what info gets passed along and Ill keep you guys posted like usual. Good to be back to rumor time, i love it.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Ouch! I just burned myself on the hot stove! I guess I can kiss lots of my free time goodbye during these next few weeks. It's not like I have law school finals or anything.... :rolleyes:

[SilentJames]

Ouch! I just burned myself on the hot stove! I guess I can kiss lots of my free time goodbye during these next few weeks. It's not like I have law school finals or anything.... :rolleyes:

TTF, thats okay
there are too many lawyers in the country anyway ;)

[connja]

I'm really not into the Nomar idea - he hasn't had a productive season for several years. Seems to me to be going down the washed up star route that we've been down so many times before.

I can't believe the Phillies would deal Abrau - especially for Bedard. If we could pull something like that off it would be the deal of the century.

Sign Konerko
Trade for Abrau
Sign Byrd
Sign Millwood
Sign Monina
Sign Gordon/Farnsworth

If all this was done, then adding Nomar would be good - but he can't be the centerpiece of the offseason.

Then you could have a lineup like:

BRob
Mora
Abrau
Tejada
Konerko
Javy
Nomar
Gibbons (if not traded)
Molina


That lineup could compete!

[Spidey]

I'm surprised Bedard has this much supposed market value.If last year was a slow start and a strong finish,I could see it_ maybe. We don't know if his knee problem is chronic or not. I don't remember seeing anything about MRI's or any medical evaluation of his knee problem.But if we could get one of the guys mentioned for him I would take it and run.

Getting Adrian(or Dunn) and Nomar seems a bit far fetched but we'll see I guess.

[Ruzious]

Gut feeling is yes. I really believe that. My source has told me over and over again how committed PA is to winning. He knows him on a very personal level and has way before he owned the orioles. Anyway, like i said, i really believe he is committed to winning. BUT, and theres always a BUT....dont look for long contracts to pitcher (IE no way Ryan was getting a 5 yr deal) or more than 1 year long contracts to injury prone players (IE Nomar more than a year). I would also be surprised if we ever went after another player at the end of their career (IE Sosa or Palmeiro). Other things I can say, just that Im not sure I mentioned here but Im sure most of you know already- Maz was more or less given the job because of PA's confidence in Flan/Bettie he was never his guy and loves Perlazzo (as well as Dempsey). I know that PA wants a bat, and I can almost gaurantee he will get one, as well as a veteran pitcher. I have to say that I would be surprised if he was onboard for signing Nomar, doesnt mean that we wont get him, I just dont think that he is his type of guy. Anyway, ill see what info gets passed along and Ill keep you guys posted like usual. Good to be back to rumor time, i love it.
If what you say is true (and it sounds like it is), Angelos is basically the GM. If that's the case, then the O's have NOOOOO CHANCE of being successful - period.

Everyone Wants to win - from the cheapest owners to the biggest spenders. Wanting to win and $1.55 will get you a large groin-scalding cup of coffee at McDonalds.

[jim busby]

Obviously, we have to give up something (Bedard, in this case) to get something. Like almost everybody, I loved Bedard pre-injury, then was perplexed by him afterward.

Considering that Bedard looked dominant early in 2005, and looking at the apparent willingness to trade him now, I ask this question: Does Adam Loewen's progress, including a sparkling showing in the Arizona Fall League, make Bedard expendable?

In other words, is the FO at this point convinced that within a year or so, Loewen will be at least the equal of Bedard, and that's why Bedard is on the block?

My guess is that the FO has looked at Hayden Penn and Loewen and decided they can replace Bedard, maybe not immediately, but within a year. Thus, they're willing to take a chance that Bedard does not develop into a monster.

I favor trading Bedard for a big bat. However, I warn you: I thought Schilling, Harnisch and Finley for Glenn Davis was a good deal, too.

[ocff6]

Well. I've been away from the board for a few days and come back to all this info. It appears the stove is really heating up. Can't wait to see what happens. Thanks to all the guys with the inside info.

[mdbdotcom]

If what you say is true (and it sounds like it is), Angelos is basically the GM. If that's the case, then the O's have NOOOOO CHANCE of being successful - period.

Everyone Wants to win - from the cheapest owners to the biggest spenders. Wanting to win and $1.55 will get you a large groin-scalding cup of coffee at McDonalds.
I'm guessing that MJA3488 refers only to Angelos because that's how he/she is connected. I've always suspected MJA was the real deal -- something about those initials. Does anyone know of an Angelos born on March 4, 1988? PGA's oldest son, John, would have been in his first year of law school then. Maybe I'm way off, but I'm guessing there is a family connection.

[The Goob]

Could this offseason actual be possible?

Sign Konerko - 5yrs / $65M - $70M - more than he should get but that is what it will take in this offseason to get him here
Trade with Phillies - Bedard and Gibbons for Abreu
Trade with Texas - RLopez for Gonzalez
Trade with Houston - JLopez and Prospect for Lidge
Sign Hernandez - 3yrs / $21M
Sign Byrd - 2yrs / $15M
Sign Nomar - 1yr / $6M
Sign Weaver - 2yrs / $14M

Roberts - 2b
Mora - 3b
Tejada - SS
Konerko - 1b/DH
Abreu - RF
Nomar - LF
Gonzalez - 1b/DH
Hernandez - C
Markakis / Matos - CF

Weaver, Byrd, Caberra, Chen, Maine with Penn, Loewen, Olson all waiting in minors

Lidge, Ray, Williams, Kline, Burdak, Rleal, DuBois / Rakers

Now I really can't wait for the winter meetings to begin next week. :)

[RZNJ]

No love for Bedard? I guess he's not untouchable, but I would hate to give him up.

The only question I really have with Bedard is if he stays healthy. If he does I think he will develop into a top starter, especially in the NL.

[Sports Guy]

The only question I really have with Bedard is if he stays healthy. If he does I think he will develop into a top starter, especially in the NL.


Yea, i do not want to see him traded but they seem intent on dealin ghim...I just hope they get back something very special for him.

[The Goob]

Yea, i do not want to see him traded but they seem intent on dealin ghim...I just hope they get back something very special for him.

I think getting back either Dunn or Abreu should be considered "very special"

[RZNJ]

Yea, i do not want to see him traded but they seem intent on dealin ghim...I just hope they get back something very special for him.


If nothing else, if half these rumors are true, it will be a very interesting winter. Too many sources have said that Bedard is as good as gone to ignore it. I have a feeling that we will wind up without a true #1 or #2 starter when all is said and done. Unless Cabrera takes a giant step forward.

[NewMarketSean]

So it looks like they are active, if the insiders are correct.

While I still don't have the faith that they can pull of a blockbuster trade or a make a marquee signing like Burnett or Millwood, I will reserve my opinion until after the winter meetings, when people say some signings and trades could occur.

[Sports Guy]

I think getting back either Dunn or Abreu should be considered "very special"


That depends....Dunn is a tremendous talent but without an extension, i am not sure Dunn is worth it.

Abreu's h/r splits and his bad second half last year are alarming as well.

HEre is question....Would you guys rather trade BEdard for one of these 2 or would you prefer to get a Jeremy Hermida or Delmon Young for him?

[RZNJ]

So it looks like they are active, if the insiders are correct.

While I still don't have the faith that they can pull of a blockbuster trade or a make a marquee signing like Burnett or Millwood, I will reserve my opinion until after the winter meetings, when people say some signings and trades could occur.

With all of these rumors, it sure would be disappointing to have the winter meetings end with no major deals and just hear something like "we have laid the groundwork for some possible future deals". :D

[The Goob]

That depends....Dunn is a tremendous talent but without an extension, i am not sure Dunn is worth it.

Abreu's h/r splits and his bad second half last year are alarming as well.

HEre is question....Would you guys rather trade BEdard for one of these 2 or would you prefer to get a Jeremy Hermida or Delmon Young for him?

What makes you think we could get either one of those guys fro Bedard. I would rather have Abreu or Dunn anyway.

[Sports Guy]

What makes you think we could get either one of those guys fro Bedard. I would rather have Abreu or Dunn anyway.


I am not saying we can...I used them as examples..Essentially, i am asking, would we rather get that established guy or super blue chip prospects...For example, what if we could get Mathis and Kotchman for Bedard? Would we prefer that?

[erb8472]

I am not saying we can...I used them as examples..Essentially, i am asking, would we rather get that established guy or super blue chip prospects...For example, what if we could get Mathis and Kotchman for Bedard? Would we prefer that?

Of course that would be preferred, however it appears as if the FO and PA feels as if their can't be any more losing seasons. By trading for prospects you are going to have a few more losing seasons, by trading for an established player and signing a few others you could have the winning season.

Not saying thats my opinion, but it appears from everything I heard its the FO's.

[tennOsfan]

For Dunn or Abreu, I'd deal Bedard in an instant. I'd love to see what Bedard could do under Mazzone, but I trust Flanagan if he feels Bedard will likely not live to his potential.

Whether I'd take Dunn or Abreau, I have mixed emotions. Dunn is a favorite of mine and has been for a while; that status was sealed last summer when I saw the O's in Cincinnati, and Dunn came to the plate with Night Ranger's Sister Christian blarring. The 80's child in me gleamed. His addition would be welcome to my lineup.

Seriously, though, Dunn has the positive in his younger age. Both guys work the count and get walks, so they would be huge improvements over Gibbons. Abreu is the better contact hitter with better speed; Dunn could mash 50+ homers in Camden with ease. I could more easily see Abreu's numbers penciled into the three spot hitting lefty between Mora and Tejada than Dunn's sub-.270 batting average (but with Tejada hitting behind him and Roberts/Mora on base, you'd think pitchers would have to pitch to Dunn -- which is one scary thought). Both guys have good arms.

In the end, I'd prefer Dunn because of his age, price and Night Ranger. :D

[RZNJ]

For Dunn or Abreu, I'd deal Bedard in an instant. I'd love to see what Bedard could do under Mazzone, but I trust Flanagan if he feels Bedard will likely not live to his potential.

Whether I'd take Dunn or Abreau, I have mixed emotions. Dunn is a favorite of mine and has been for a while; that status was sealed last summer when I saw the O's in Cincinnati, and Dunn came to the plate with Night Ranger's Sister Christian blarring. The 80's child in me gleamed. His addition would be welcome to my lineup.

Seriously, though, Dunn has the positive in his younger age. Both guys work the count and get walks, so they would be huge improvements over Gibbons. Abreu is the better contact hitter with better speed; Dunn could mash 50+ homers in Camden with ease. I could more easily see Abreu's numbers penciled into the three spot hitting lefty between Mora and Tejada than Dunn's sub-.270 batting average (but with Tejada hitting behind him and Roberts/Mora on base, you'd think pitchers would have to pitch to Dunn -- which is one scary thought). Both guys have good arms.

In the end, I'd prefer Dunn because of his age, price and Night Ranger. :D

Why do we trust Flanagan on making personnel decisions on pitchers? Because he was a pitcher? So was Beattie, and in the last 3 years I can think of a lot more bad moves involving pitchers than good ones.

[erb8472]

For Dunn or Abreu, I'd deal Bedard in an instant. I'd love to see what Bedard could do under Mazzone, but I trust Flanagan if he feels Bedard will likely not live to his potential.

Whether I'd take Dunn or Abreau, I have mixed emotions. Dunn is a favorite of mine and has been for a while; that status was sealed last summer when I saw the O's in Cincinnati, and Dunn came to the plate with Night Ranger's Sister Christian blarring. The 80's child in me gleamed. His addition would be welcome to my lineup.

Seriously, though, Dunn has the positive in his younger age. Both guys work the count and get walks, so they would be huge improvements over Gibbons. Abreu is the better contact hitter with better speed; Dunn could mash 50+ homers in Camden with ease. I could more easily see Abreu's numbers penciled into the three spot hitting lefty between Mora and Tejada than Dunn's sub-.270 batting average (but with Tejada hitting behind him and Roberts/Mora on base, you'd think pitchers would have to pitch to Dunn -- which is one scary thought). Both guys have good arms.

In the end, I'd prefer Dunn because of his age, price and Night Ranger. :D

What would it take for us to get Dunn and Abreu if at all possible?

Roberts Mora Abreu Tejada Dunn and then 4 hangouters could round it out and you'd still have a heck of an offense.

[tennOsfan]

Why do we trust Flanagan on making personnel decisions on pitchers? Because he was a pitcher? So was Beattie, and in the last 3 years I can think of a lot more bad moves involving pitchers than good ones.

I know we're you're coming from, and I had that thought when I typed that line. I just figure there could be a difference in his evaluation of Bedard since he's had to live with him for a few years; sometimes GMs have better reads on their own players than someone else's. I'm making a leap of faith in thinking Flanagan knows what he's doing here moreso than when we signed Daal, Kline, etc, etc. The flipside is that we certainly knew who Sidney Ponson was when we brought him back -- there's no need to rehash that story.

Perhaps I should take that thought back about Flanagan's insight. But my bottom line is that Bedard is no sure thing and we'd be dealing him for instant offense, so I'd do the deal assuming Byrd is coming aboard.

[tennOsfan]

What would it take for us to get Dunn and Abreu if at all possible?

Roberts Mora Abreu Tejada Dunn and then 4 hangouters could round it out and you'd still have a heck of an offense.

Completely depleting our pitching rotation and resigning Omar Daal, Pat Hentgen, Rick Sutcliffe and Flanagan becoming the first GM/pitcher in history -- then you might get Dunn and Abreu.

[tropicos]

Add Konerko, Trade for Dunn/Abreu, Add Byrd and Millwood

If Flanagan could pull off 2 of those things, then id sh*t my pants. We havent accomplished an efficient trade in a while...and we need to.

We could go on and on about how ridiculous the prices of these free agents are asking for...but some team has to pay for it. We have the money...and if we dont spend it, then i would certainly like to know what we are saving it for.

[erb8472]

Completely depleting our pitching rotation and resigning Omar Daal, Pat Hentgen, Rick Sutcliffe and Flanagan becoming the first GM/pitcher in history -- then you might get Dunn and Abreu.

I don't know if I like the idea of going with a four man staff.

[tennOsfan]

I can't remember if this is the thread that really discussed Jeff Weaver, but ...

I think it would be foolish to do anything like 2/$14 or more for him. In the last two years for the Dodgers, he's never had an ERA under 4. That's a good pitchers park, so I'd expect him to balloon to 4.75 or 5.00 in Camden and the AL. Why spend a fortune on him? I can understand the appeal of Byrd -- he's a sub 4.00 pitcher even in the AL. I'd reluctantly go three years on Byrd if absolutely necessary, but Weaver just isn't worth what he's going to get.

If I'm dealing RLo and Bedard, I'm going to land Byrd and make really good offers to Burnett or Millwood. I would rather see this team splurge on Burnett/Millwood than waste millions on Weaver.

[tennOsfan]

I don't know if I like the idea of going with a four man staff.

Those old-time pitchers can handle it. :D

[RZNJ]

I can't remember if this is the thread that really discussed Jeff Weaver, but ...

I think it would be foolish to do anything like 2/$14 or more for him. In the last two years for the Dodgers, he's never had an ERA under 4. That's a good pitchers park, so I'd expect him to balloon to 4.75 or 5.00 in Camden and the AL. Why spend a fortune on him? I can understand the appeal of Byrd -- he's a sub 4.00 pitcher even in the AL. I'd reluctantly go three years on Byrd if absolutely necessary, but Weaver just isn't worth what he's going to get.

If I'm dealing RLo and Bedard, I'm going to land Byrd and make really good offers to Burnett or Millwood. I would rather see this team splurge on Burnett/Millwood than waste millions on Weaver.


Someone will sign Weaver for 3/24 or 4/32. I hope it's not us.

[tennOsfan]

Someone will sign Weaver for 3/24 or 4/32. I hope it's not us.

I'd feel sick if we did that.

[markdublya]

Could this offseason actual be possible?

Sign Konerko - 5yrs / $65M - $70M - more than he should get but that is what it will take in this offseason to get him here
Trade with Phillies - Bedard and Gibbons for Abreu
Trade with Texas - RLopez for Gonzalez
Trade with Houston - JLopez and Prospect for Lidge
Sign Hernandez - 3yrs / $21M
Sign Byrd - 2yrs / $15M
Sign Nomar - 1yr / $6M
Sign Weaver - 2yrs / $14M

Roberts - 2b
Mora - 3b
Tejada - SS
Konerko - 1b/DH
Abreu - RF
Nomar - LF
Gonzalez - 1b/DH
Hernandez - C
Markakis / Matos - CF

Weaver, Byrd, Caberra, Chen, Maine with Penn, Loewen, Olson all waiting in minors

Lidge, Ray, Williams, Kline, Burdak, Rleal, DuBois / Rakers

Now I really can't wait for the winter meetings to begin next week. :)

You know - it's funny. That would be the most activity for this team in a long long time...and yet that rotation still has me very, very nervous...

[Belkast]

Boy, I sure hope this report is true. With the way our sources change their tune almost daily it's hard to get real optimistic for long though.

I'm very happy they're pursuing a trade for Adam Dunn. He's young, has massive power and most importantly comes cheap leaving plenty of money free if they're serious about pursuing Burnett afterall, which I hope they are, especially if they're trading Bedard. I would not be upset with Abreu but I still think Dunn has more upside, and of course Abreu's contract is hefty and would likely impede splurging on Burnett, if that is their intention.
I'm also liking the talks with Kyle Farnsworth. He was my choice for closer ever before BJ Ryan signed with Toronto. I would offer him 3/21.
The Byrd and Nomar deals sound quite reasonable. I don't mind Byrd for 2 years, and Nomar for a one year trial is fine with me.

I'm hoping all this talk of wanting to make big headlines at the Winter Meetings is true.


Keep in mind that things do change daily but that is life in baseball. With that said I do think we will have some excitement in the near future. Alot has to go right for us to make these deals. I expect some of them but NOT all of them to happen. But again things change all the time.

[bigbird]

Any updates today?

[Belkast]

Any updates today?
No not today Ill probably talk to him tonight or tomorrow though.

How 'bout from you?

[bryanman8]

HEre is question....Would you guys rather trade BEdard for one of these 2 or would you prefer to get a Jeremy Hermida or Delmon Young for him?

Jeremy Hermida...aww man you just got me drooling. FWIW, I think there's no way in the world the Marlins trade him, as he's probably the centerpiece of who they're rebuilding for. Just check out what Bill James projects for him next year:
.432 OBP, .514 SLG, .946 OPS, 27 Homers, 141 walks, 33 steals
Wow. drooool...

[bigbird]

No not today Ill probably talk to him tonight or tomorrow though.

How 'bout from you?


Just that there doesn't appear to be anything to the Astro rumor posted on here.

[SilentJames]

Keep in mind that things do change daily but that is life in baseball. With that said I do think we will have some excitement in the near future. Alot has to go right for us to make these deals. I expect some of them but NOT all of them to happen. But again things change all the time.

IMHO::
The O's will not move Bedard unless we sign two pitchers. One to fill the Ponson place and then one to fill Bedard, and if that pitcher is replacing Bedard, The O's will probably want one that will be comparable.

that means Burnette

If we get Burnette then they move another pitcher

[YardBirds13]

I would say there is no chance they trade Hermida. Wouldn't that basically defeat everything they just did in the past two weeks? And I know SG is saying a general question of would we rather get a big time prospect or a proven guy. I would take the proven guy, an Abreu or Dunn. What is the chance of us pulling a deal with Cincy to get Dunn, Pena, and LaRue? Bedard and Gibbons obviously, throw in Rodrigo, Javy, and maybe a couple younger guys like Fio, etc? What would it take to get all three of those guys? Dunn could play first, Pena in the outfield with Matos and another guy like Nomar or if we don't sign anyone else, Markakis.

Roberts 2b
Mora 3b
Tejada ss
Dunn 1b
Pena rf
Garciaparra dh
LaRue c
Markakis lf
Matos cf

What do you guys think?

[Belkast]

Just that there doesn't appear to be anything to the Astro rumor posted on here.
Remember a couple days ago I posted that an Astros deal could happen.
I was only speculating though.

[Sports Guy]

Keep in mind that things do change daily but that is life in baseball. With that said I do think we will have some excitement in the near future. Alot has to go right for us to make these deals. I expect some of them but NOT all of them to happen. But again things change all the time.

Do we have to add Paul Byrd to make some deals??

[RZNJ]

Remember a couple days ago I posted that an Astros deal could happen.
I was only speculating though.


Speculating based on what?

[Belkast]

Do we have to add Paul Byrd to make some deals??
If not him then Washburn/Morris.
I still think Byrd will be an Oriole.

[Belkast]

Speculating based on what?
Based on us possibly looking for pitching through trade.

[Sports Guy]

If not him then Washburn/Morris.
I still think Byrd will be an Oriole.


Why are the Orioles so high on Byrd? I know you talked about the "veteran factor" but what about the injury history, the high FB rate and his low K rate? Doesn't that alarm them at all?

[Belkast]

Why are the Orioles so high on Byrd? I know you talked about the "veteran factor" but what about the injury history, the high FB rate and his low K rate? Doesn't that alarm them at all?
This all about the " vet factor ". The FO really thinks that your young arms will get better just because he is on the team. They really look at him as a Sutcliff like type.

[Sports Guy]

This all about the " vet factor ". The FO really thinks that your young arms will get better just because he is on the team. They really look at him as a Sutcliff like type.

It is just amazing that they put that much into that and totally ignore everything else.

Plus, if they trade Bedard, what other young pitchers is he going to help over the next few years? Loewen and Penn MAY be up in 2007...Who else? Maine?

I think they are way overvaluing the vet factor here.

IF they want a vet factor, fire Dempsey and hire Hentgen to be the BP coach.

[Belkast]

It is just amazing that they put that much into that and totally ignore everything else.

Plus, if they trade Bedard, what other young pitchers is he going to help over the next few years? Loewen and Penn MAY be up in 2007...Who else? Maine?

I think they are way overvaluing the vet factor here.
DCab could learn about how to handle himself the professional way. Plus it gives Mazzone's message a boost with having Byrd on the staff to second the things Mazzone says.

[bryanman8]

I think they are way overvaluing the vet factor here.

I agree completely. It's absurd how much they value this thing. Maybe I undervalue it, but a blind person could see that this is insanely ridiculous. What happens if Byrd completely falls apart next year, as many stats are expecting him to do, and has an ERA of like 4.50. Will he still be happy enough to provide that 'vet factor'? Isn't having a good pitcher infinitely more valuable than having a good teacher, especially when your pitching coach is Leo Mazzone? Why does this 'vet factor' have to be in the form of a player? Why don't you just load up your bench with guys who had excellent careers as pitchers and were strong mentally? Put Sutcliffe on the bench? I think it would be better for the players to see any pitcher flourish, strike guys out, keep the ball in the park, and not walk guys like they're supposed to. If Byrd's out there getting crushed like I think he will, what good is he? Is he even setting a good example anymore?

Unbelievable. Sign the good pitchers.

[RZNJ]

Based on us possibly looking for pitching through trade.

Not trying to give you a hard time. So this has nothing to do with anything anyone else told you. Just idle speculation on your part? No better than SportsGuy? :)

[TyCobb]

I like the signing of Bryd. He is going to be better than Ponson or Maine or Penn next season, and Leo definately has a say on what pitchers he wants and if he wants Bryd I think we should get him.

[brachd]

This all about the " vet factor ". The FO really thinks that your young arms will get better just because he is on the team. They really look at him as a Sutcliff like type.

I've been advocating this type of signing for a while. Not necessarily 3 years of it, but signing a veteran who is a known leader like Byrd to mentor some of our young guys. Nothing says Bedard will definitely be traded. Bedard, Cabrera, Lowen, and Penn are all very talented and could benefit from a vet on the staff. Having a good pitching coach is great, but having another pitcher on staff who is standup guy is also an asset. I think the combo of a respected pitching coach like Mazzone and a proven vet like Byrd will help the development and growth of our young pitchers.

[Tony-OH]

It is just amazing that they put that much into that and totally ignore everything else.

Plus, if they trade Bedard, what other young pitchers is he going to help over the next few years? Loewen and Penn MAY be up in 2007...Who else? Maine?

I think they are way overvaluing the vet factor here.

IF they want a vet factor, fire Dempsey and hire Hentgen to be the BP coach.
Don't forget about Olson. He may be the best of all three (Penn,Loewen) when it's all said and done.

[Sports Guy]

Don't forget about Olson. He may be the best of all three (Penn,Loewen) when it's all said and done.


I am not but i am not thinking he will be up in 2007, although i do think it is possible.

[brachd]

It is just amazing that they put that much into that and totally ignore everything else........I think they are way overvaluing the vet factor here.IF they want a vet factor, fire Dempsey and hire Hentgen to be the BP coach.

I disagree because I don't believe they are ignoring everything else. I think his numbers over the last 3 seasons have been solid. We're not looking at him to be a top-of-the-line starter. The way I look at it, we'd be signing him so that we could trade Rodrigo. By trading Rodrigo we could aquire a young first baseman like Gonzalez.

BTW, I think Hentgen is a coach on the Blue Jays, but not sure. In any case-yes, he would have been a good hire but once again it's different if you're a coach motivating players than a "model" player motivating a team-mate.

[Sports Guy]

I disagree because I don't believe they are ignoring everything else. I think his numbers over the last 3 seasons have been solid. We're not looking at him to be a top-of-the-line starter. The way I look at it, we'd be signing him so that we could trade Rodrigo. By trading Rodrigo we could aquire a young first baseman like Gonzalez.

BTW, I think Hentgen is a coach on the Blue Jays, but not sure. In any case-yes, he would have been a good hire but once again it's different if you're a coach motivating players than a "model" player motivating a team-mate.

Yes, the numbers are solid but what you failed to mention is that in 2004, in was only 19 starts and that he missed all of 2003....So, now, you go all the way back to 2002, where he was 3 years younger.

And how does his body hold up as he gets older and does he also go through the normal decline of aging, mid 30's players?

3 years is too long.

[Fan4Life]

Might not be an issue:

"Cleveland Courting Paul Byrd
Although sources have indicated the Orioles' strong likelihood of signing Paul Byrd, it seems that the pitcher is visiting Mark Shapiro in Cleveland today.

I was directed by an emailer to this thread on Scout.com a few minutes ago. As a commenter mentions, putting B.J. Ryan's name in lights didn't exactly seal the deal. Regardless, the Indians' interest is for real. Byrd has looked solid pitching against current White Sox players, for what that's worth. "

[SilentJames]

Yes, the numbers are solid but what you failed to mention is that in 2004, in was only 19 starts and that he missed all of 2003....So, now, you go all the way back to 2002, where he was 3 years younger.

And how does his body hold up as he gets older and does he also go through the normal decline of aging, mid 30's players?

3 years is too long.

but there are two ways to look at it SG
theres your way, which isn't necessarily wrong, but then there is this way.

He missed all of 03, pitched 19 games in 04 and posted:
3.94 ERA, 79 SO, 19 BB, 18 HR, .747 OPS

then in 05, 31 starts (12 more starts)
A lower ERA (3.72) he gave up ony 4 more HRs (22) 9 more walks (29) and opponents OPS fell to .728

He got better in 05 than in 04, it seems to me that he put his injury behind him and has returned to solid play.

And again, when you consider he is essentially taking Ponson's place in the rotation its a good deal.

Though a guaranteed third year might be a little too much. but I wouldnt let that get in the way of us signing him if it came right down to it.

[Rockbird]

With the way this offseason market has been going and all the competition for a limited number of players, I'm almost expecting someone to land Byrd at 5 years 55 million. This will all lead to AJ Burnett's record 10 year 200 million dollar signing with Toronto, which will in turn lead to Millwood signing in March with Florida a 2 year 210 million dollar contract (1st year: 2 million 2nd year: 208 million).

Flanagan: "We didn't anticipate shifts in the market so dramatically. But we're still, confident in the process." The team is said to still be pursuing Nomar Garciappara which would give them the versatility to move catcher Javy Lopez.
"We think Nomar can catch, he's an athletic guy, and this might lead to some experimentation with Javy Lopez to the pitching rotation. His arm in underrated and after working with Mazzone, I think, Javy can do a servicable job."
When asked for comment Leo Mazzone was found rocking in a corner, muttering to himself "what have I done?" while clutching a Bobby Cox bobblehead doll.

[mskrulz]

With us suddenly willing to trade Bedard...do you think that Mazzone has looked at him among the other prospects and said he would be the one with the lowest ceiling or the one who he could help the least...Stubborn like Mussina? I just think it is weird that he is suddenly our top trade bait. Or he is he just the guy that we could get the most for?

[Rockbird]

With us suddenly willing to trade Bedard...do you think that Mazzone has looked at him among the other prospects and said he would be the one with the lowest ceiling or the one who he could help the least...Stubborn like Mussina? I just think it is weird that he is suddenly our top trade bait. Or he is he just the guy that we could get the most for?

I forgot who said it but someone astutely reminded us that Peter Angelos is our GM. Any move goes through him. If Bedard is getting shopped it's likely Peter found something he doesn't like about moreso than anyone else (possibly upset at taking his time coming back from the knee injury).

[thrifty]

With us suddenly willing to trade Bedard...do you think that Mazzone has looked at him among the other prospects and said he would be the one with the lowest ceiling or the one who he could help the least...Stubborn like Mussina? I just think it is weird that he is suddenly our top trade bait. Or he is he just the guy that we could get the most for?

I think that it is a combination of his high value, our need for positional talent, and something in the clubhouse that i'm not sure of.

[Tony-OH]

There are like 20 different things being discussed in this thread now. I'd rather open up seperate threads on each topic then keep piling on this one. Feel free to open up topics being discussed here. Thanks.

[TUKid04]

Can I just say, "THANK GOODNESS THAT WE DIDN'T DO THIS TRADE."

[MikeAD]

Woah, I just realized this thread is two years old and almost as same as what we talk about right now!

More evidence in my theory that there are no posters here, just copying and pasting of a few posts.

Done, of course, by the Illuminati.

[Dr. FLK]

It sure is a good thing we didn't do Lopez for A Gonz or Pena. :D