So with todays win.....

[terps/wiz/o's/]

Would we be a lock with two acc tourny wins, or 3? Right now I would say 2, 1 would put us right on the edge but in my opinion, not enough to get in.

[mweb]

2 would be a lock, 1 would put us in solid position imo.

[terps/wiz/o's/]

Any idea what seed we are or who we will play in the acc tourny?

[BmoreBoy]

2 would be a lock, 1 would put us in solid position imo.
I agree as we have no bad losses.

[Nuclear Dish]

And I don't think a win over a weak team like GT does much to soldify things for the Terps. Especially if FSU takes care of business by beating WF. I think the committee is going to have a hard time passing on a 20-win FSU team that went 9-7 in conference, beat dook, and might have beaten dook twice if not for a call the league admitted was mistaken, certainly not in favor of a Maryland team that had a lesser conference record, lost to FSU H-T-H and hasn't had a single impressive win this season.

And let's face it, the ACC just isn't going to get 6 this year without a serious turn of events.

So I still say Maryland needs to beat BC for that serious turn of events to take place, and maybe an FSU loss to WF as well.

[mweb]

And I don't think a win over a weak team like GT does much to soldify things for the Terps. Especially if FSU takes care of business by beating WF. I think the committee is going to have a hard time passing on a 20-win FSU team that went 9-7 in conference, beat dook, and might have beaten dook twice if not for a call the league admitted was mistaken, certainly not in favor of a Maryland team that had a lesser conference record, lost to FSU H-T-H and hasn't had a single impressive win this season.

And let's face it, the ACC just isn't going to get 6 this year without a serious turn of events.

So I still say Maryland needs to beat BC for that serious turn of events to take place, and maybe an FSU loss to WF as well.

I think the ACC can get 6 if FSU and MD both win at least one more, and especially if FSU wins one more and MD wins 2 more. The ACC is the 3rd highest rated conference in terms of RPI I believe. If MD beats GTech and than loses against BC, there's a good chance they'll be left out, but they'll likely be close. Should be a top 50 rpi team, which along with 9 ACC wins is a decent resume.

[amoly22]

I think if Maryland advances one round further than FSU, they are definitely ahead in terms of order of ACC teams getting in. FSU has a pretty weak strength of schedule, and they both only have two top 50 wins, one of which was Maryland for FSU.

[StoneTheCrow]

Agreed. If MD can advance and Fla St does not, I think State's horrific SOS may come back to haunt them. MD's resume is nothing to brag about, but today's win improves the road record. And I believe a win against GT guarantees a 5-5 record in our last 10 games.

Bottom line is we have to win two. Do that and we're in.

[Sports Guy]

There is no chance MD is in with just one win in the ACC tourney.

They have to beat one of the top 4 teams. they need another big win.

2 wins and they are in.

FSU is in now.

[Nuclear Dish]

FSU is in now.

No, I don't think they are unless they bet Wake. A loss to Wake destroys their chances.

[Sports Guy]

No, I don't think they are unless they bet Wake. A loss to Wake destroys their chances.

As of today, they are in(according to Lunardi as well).

I do agree that a loss to Wake will really hurt them. Alot will depend on what happens in the various conference tourneys. Hofstra looking like they will beat George Mason right now...That is bad news because that conference will then get 2 and perhaps 3.

[Mackus]

I think FSU is a lock right now.

I think Maryland with 2 wins is a lock. 1 win and it'll depend on if there are (m)any upset in smaller conferences and how other bubble teams do. I'd say we'd probably be 40/60 in favor of missing out with just one win though.

[Sports Guy]

I think FSU is a lock right now.

I think Maryland with 2 wins is a lock. 1 win and it'll depend on if there are (m)any upset in smaller conferences and how other bubble teams do. I'd say we'd probably be 40/60 in favor of missing out with just one win though.


I would say 0%. They just lack the top 50 wins.

Take a lesson from this GW...Schedule the stronger mid major teams in the preseason from now on.

[DuffMan]

Their strengh of schedule for this year was 11th, so this is pretty high. But i do think they should schedule a few mid majors. As for the teams chances I think the ACC can get 6. FSU is probably already in. MD will be in for sure with 2 wins, with 1 win I'd say their chances are still pretty good, but the 2nd win would remove any doubt.

[Nuclear Dish]

As of today, they are in(according to Lunardi as well).

No, according to Lunardi, before the win today (and he has yet to update it, nor will he until tomorrow) FSU was the last team out. Texas A&M had replaced them.

Which is why, even with today's win, they are on the bubble. Currently in, perhaps. But a loss to Wake could push them out, especially if a team like A&M performs well in the Big 12 tournament.

And today Maryland was the 8th team out. That gives them a shot, but a first round loss clinches their exit, and a first round win probably only pushes them onto the cusp. They really are going to need that BC win to secure a spot for themselves.

[Sports Guy]

No, according to Lunardi, before the win today (and he has yet to update it, nor will he until tomorrow) FSU was the last team out. Texas A&M had replaced them.

Which is why, even with today's win, they are on the bubble. Currently in, perhaps. But a loss to Wake could push them out, especially if a team like A&M performs well in the Big 12 tournament.

And today Maryland was the 8th team out. That gives them a shot, but a first round loss clinches their exit, and a first round win probably only pushes them onto the cusp. They really are going to need that BC win to secure a spot for themselves.


Lunardi was on sportscenter and had FSU in and Mo St out(which is different from the bracketology you see on ESPN.com)

[Krimka]

Lunardi was on sportscenter and had FSU in and Mo St out(which is different from the bracketology you see on ESPN.com)

He also had MD as the first of the "Last 4 Out" as of now.

The Georgia Tech game is crucial. If we win that, then perhaps we can get in with just a strong showing against BC. 2 wins would be an absolute lock. But 1 win and a strong effort against BC (depending on how other conference tournaments shake out) could still get us in. A lot is still up in the air as of now, but the Terps are at least giving themselves a chance.

[BigSteve]

I would say 0%. They just lack the top 50 wins.

Take a lesson from this GW...Schedule the stronger mid major teams in the preseason from now on.

Not sure how scheduling better mid majors helps us this year. Our SOS is an excellent 11 and out OOC SOS is a very strong 58. None of those type of teams are likely to give us anymore top 50 wins or be looked at particularly highly by the committee. It isn't a bad strategy in general if you have a good team, but that's not our problem right now. Win just one of @ Clemson, @ FSU, @ Temple or @ Miami and we're a lock with a win against GT.

Anyway, I think one win puts us squarely on the bubble with a good showing against BC. You're going to have a tough time getting 34 better at large teams barring lots of upsets in conference tournaments. If we win two, we're in easily, and I think we could make it to the 9 or 10 seed line.

I just really hope we don't get knocked out by MVC #6 or CAA #3 or the like.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Six teams from the MVC would be a gross miscarriage of justice.

[/Supreme Court Justice]

[AgentOrange]

Lunardi was on sportscenter and had FSU in and Mo St out(which is different from the bracketology you see on ESPN.com)


I don't think it really matters right now with games still to be played. FSU is in right now, horray, If they lose to Wake, and we beat GT, then we are ahead of them. Is it enough to get in? I don't know.

I really do not like the ACC format now, we had to play UNC twice, FSU only played them once.

I would say thier ACC SOS was weaker than ours this year...

[Sports Guy]

Not sure how scheduling better mid majors helps us this year. Our SOS is an excellent 11 and out OOC SOS is a very strong 58. None of those type of teams are likely to give us anymore top 50 wins or be looked at particularly highly by the committee. It isn't a bad strategy in general if you have a good team, but that's not our problem right now. Win just one of @ Clemson, @ FSU, @ Temple or @ Miami and we're a lock with a win against GT.

Anyway, I think one win puts us squarely on the bubble with a good showing against BC. You're going to have a tough time getting 34 better at large teams barring lots of upsets in conference tournaments. If we win two, we're in easily, and I think we could make it to the 9 or 10 seed line.

I just really hope we don't get knocked out by MVC #6 or CAA #3 or the like.

The problem is you have not beaten anyone.

If some of those mid major teams were teams like George Mason, UNC Wilmington, Bucknell or other teams like that, the Terps would have more top 50 wins.

SOS is a nice thing BUT if you do not win any of the games, it does not matter. So, beef up the mid major games and steal a few top 50 wins to make the resume look better.

[amoly22]

That's true to some extent, SG, but who would have guessed that George Mason and some of those other mid-majors would have been in the top 50. I feel like this year there is a surplus of mid-majors in the top 50 that don't deserve it. I do agree with your point that it's a good idea to schedule some of the ones that have a reputation of being good mid-majors, but, honestly, Maryland played enough games against top 50 opponents. They just didn't win enough of them.

[Sports Guy]

Who am i forgetting with the Terps...I know they were scheduled to play the Zags but other than that, what top 50 teams did they SCHEDULE out of conference? Who am i forgetting?

[BigSteve]

Who am i forgetting with the Terps...I know they were scheduled to play the Zags but other than that, what top 50 teams did they SCHEDULE out of conference? Who am i forgetting?

Well we scheduled the Maui Invitational which had six, maybe seven, NCAA tournament teams, but losing the first round gave us the unlucky break of facing Chaminade in our second game as opposed to another power team like Kansas.

After that we had the road portion of our home and home with Temple during the conference season plus a BB&T matchup with GW. Not a schedule that put us throught the wringer, but good enough to be 59th overall in OOC SOS.

And like amoly22 pointed out, it's almost impossible to decide who is going to be a good mid major a year or two out. Mason was a middle of that pack CAA team that we crushed last year. NC Wilmington was second in the CAA but not even in the RPI top 100. Bucknell has had a darned good season for a Patriot league team, but isn't RPI top 50.

Apparently there were talks about getting Mason on the schedule, but they wanted a home and home series. We turned that down and rightfully so.

[Sports Guy]

I forget about GW and Temple.

End of the day...The Terps have beaten 2 good teams all year and thats it. They had plenty of oppurtunities to win games they should have won and they dropped the ball.

I think if MD wins one more game and still does not make the tourney(which they won't IMO), there will be alot of b!tching on here and finger pointing when the finger should be pointed directly at the Terps players and coaches.

[StoneTheCrow]

Nah. There might be some belly-aching about teams with similar resumes that made it. That's only natural. And we'll probably recall the close games we lost, like UNC at home and NCST on the road, that would have made a difference. But the fact that we're still in the mix without McCray & Gilchrist is a very good thing. So there won't be any finger pointing from me.

[Sports Guy]

Well we scheduled the Maui Invitational which had six, maybe seven, NCAA tournament teams, but losing the first round gave us the unlucky break of facing Chaminade in our second game as opposed to another power team like Kansas.

After that we had the road portion of our home and home with Temple during the conference season plus a BB&T matchup with GW. Not a schedule that put us throught the wringer, but good enough to be 59th overall in OOC SOS.

And like amoly22 pointed out, it's almost impossible to decide who is going to be a good mid major a year or two out. Mason was a middle of that pack CAA team that we crushed last year. NC Wilmington was second in the CAA but not even in the RPI top 100. Bucknell has had a darned good season for a Patriot league team, but isn't RPI top 50.

Apparently there were talks about getting Mason on the schedule, but they wanted a home and home series. We turned that down and rightfully so.


Why is that rightfully so? If MD had a GM win on their resume, they would need one win to make the tourney.

[amoly22]

Haha, who knew GM would be this high in the RPI?? And I really can't imagine too many teams agreeing to do that with GM.

[BigSteve]

Why is that rightfully so? If MD had a GM win on their resume, they would need one win to make the tourney.

Well, maybe if we played them at Comcast this year and beat them to get another top 50 win, it might help us even though it's not close to a signature win.

What about next year when they probably won't be this good? We have nothing to gain by beating George Mason on the road, and losing that game would be disasterous. The risk >> reward. If it wasn't we'd see power conference coaches go on the road against this type of team.

[DuffMan]

In todays edition of bracketology on espn they have FSU as one of the last 4 teams in. Maryland has moved up from the next 4 out to the first 4 out. Things are looking better for the team. I think one win will do it, but it depends on how things shake out. If we can win too we won't be sweating it out on selection Sunday.

[Sports Guy]

Well, maybe if we played them at Comcast this year and beat them to get another top 50 win, it might help us even though it's not close to a signature win.

What about next year when they probably won't be this good? We have nothing to gain by beating George Mason on the road, and losing that game would be disasterous. The risk >> reward. If it wasn't we'd see power conference coaches go on the road against this type of team.
I know why the power conferences don't do it for the most part but then those same teams cannot complain about the RPI system...Part of the reason they changed it and it is weighted heavily for the mid majors is because the power conferences won't play them, so they needed another way to get in.

[JohnD]

Terps should be in if they win on Thursday. They've got the 11th ranked schedule, and six of their 11 losses came against UNC (10th), GW (6th), Gonzaga (4th), and Dook (3rd) this season. They've beaten Boston College and Arkansas, and finished 8-8 in conference which is the traditional barometer. Teams in the MVC can't say the same thing. I'm all for seeing teams from that conference get in, but the ACC should have at least as many at-large teams if not more.

[Sports Guy]

How does everyone feel about the increased number of mid majors likely to make it this year?

I'm probally a bit biased, but I really don't think it's fair to the top teams. I understand that they are in bad conferences and that it is not really easy for them to schedule big games, but if they win consistently they should get an invite to another conference, and if they are that much better than everyone else, they should win their tournament and get an at large bid.

I just find it hard to justify a team like MD, VA, or even Charlotte who have hung with the best teams in the nation missing the tournament when you have teams like Miss St for example, making it. They have no top wins, and among their most impressive are against Bradley and Northern Iowa. And on top of that, they have 8 losses.

There is no way you can say that they would have a better shot of success in the tournament as MD would.

Fair? Come on. Look, i agree that it is more LIKELY that MD would go deeper than a Bradley but MD had plenty of chances.

The fans of teams who cry it is not fair need to look at their own team and see why they did not make it.

Schools like MD should not be praying and hoping for the Zags to win tonight. They should already be locks.

It is a fair system when you cionsider that the mid majors can not play as difficult a non conf schedule because the big teams do not want to play them, so the inflated RPI for them is what they can hang onto.

BTW, last year, with this inflated RPI, 28 of the 34 at large bids went to power conferences. If you take care of business, you will get in...It is that simple.

BTW, not having McCray will hurt the Terps when the committee is in the room.

[BigSteve]

It is a fair system when you cionsider that the mid majors can not play as difficult a non conf schedule

You keep saying this, but Mason *did* play three teams early in the year that could be good wins for them, and they lost them all. The other CAA teams have losses much, much worse than Maryland's worst loss which was probably at Temple. I don't want to keep beating a dead horse here, but the only reason Maryland is sitting at 18-11 rather than 23-7 like George Mason is becuase they had six games against current top ten teams plus about fifteen more that were tougher than anyone George Mason played in conference all year. Outside of the top ten GM was 23-7 and we were 18-5 (and our schedule was still much tougher). It's a double standard to just say that Maryland should have taken care of business against all of these great teams while GM doesn't even need to make the conference finals. If they're so deserving of a bid, shouldn't they have to beat Hofstra?

[Max Power]

I know I should have come up with a better word than fair, but there really is a very big difference between the 2 types of teams. I would also be saying the same thing about Duke, NC, or anyone else if they were in the position that MD is in right now.

You talk about taking care of business...Well, the problem is that taking care of business for MD includes winning more than consistently against the top college players in the world. Taking care of business for mid major teams is much different, and no one can deny that.

Now, can you argue that since the top teams have much better players, that they should be held to a higher standard? Sure.

But then don't call the NCAA field the best 65 teams.
I think some of you guys are giving the ACC way too much credit here. In most years, a .500 record in the ACC makes a team a lock but this is a pretty crappy conference this year. Conference RPI has them way down and fair or not, it is viewed by most as an extremely top heavy conference. It's also a league that features almost half of it's teams at no better than 1 win over .500 which is awful. Is anyone honestly going to try and say that winning one more conference game than Miami or Virginia should guarantee an NCAA bid?

In contrast, the MVC and CAA have several teams having great years and both leagues have been very competitive in recent tourneys with good showings and pulling off upsets. The weak non-conference will hurt them but I doubt they get penalized too much because power conference schools won't schedule them for home and homes.

If Maryland beats BC than I think they deserve to get in but I really dont see how they get in without that since they have only one marquee win and would be 5-5 in their last 10 (assuming a GT win).

[BigSteve]

I think some of you guys are giving the ACC way too much credit here. In most years, a .500 record in the ACC makes a team a lock but this is a pretty crappy conference this year. Conference RPI has them way down and fair or not, it is viewed by most as an extremely top heavy conference. It's also a league that features almost half of it's teams at no better than 1 win over .500 which is awful. Is anyone honestly going to try and say that winning one more conference game than Miami or Virginia should guarantee an NCAA bid?

In contrast, the MVC and CAA have several teams having great years and both leagues have been very competitive in recent tourneys with good showings and pulling off upsets. The weak non-conference will hurt them but I doubt they get penalized too much because power conference schools won't schedule them for home and homes.

If Maryland beats BC than I think they deserve to get in but I really dont see how they get in without that since they have only one marquee win and would be 5-5 in their last 10 (assuming a GT win).

Crappy conference by what standards? It's third in the RPI behind the Big East and the Big Ten, and I definately think it, at the very least compares well to the Big Ten. So it's down by its own standards when it had three great teams last year, but by objective standards it's an elite conference.

The MVC is a good conference, and coming into this year they were severely underrated based on tournament performance. They deserve consideration for three teams. But saying they should get four to six is a joke in my opinion. The CAA is an OK league, but there's no way they should be getting three bids even taking into account the limitations on who they were able to schedule.

Arkansas is a good win for us, too, and that's two more good wins than a lot of these other bubble teams have. Plus we've by and large avoided any really harmful losses which these other teams haven't done.

[Max Power]

Crappy conference by what standards? It's third in the RPI behind the Big East and the Big Ten, and I definately think it, at the very least compares well to the Big Ten. So it's down by its own standards when it had three great teams last year, but by objective standards it's an elite conference.
My mistake, I swear that I saw them at 5th on CBS this weekend but it must have been something else. Anyway, my other point about it being top heavy still stands. They've got 2 teams in the top 10 then BC at 38 and Maryland at 50. The MVC has 5 teams ahead of BC and a median of 38 (ACC is 63) which is a pretty big difference. Plus the ACC's SOS for out of conference games is the worst of the major conferences (19th) which isnt going to help making the case for 5 teams (I know this doesnt directly apply to Maryland).


The MVC is a good conference, and coming into this year they were severely underrated based on tournament performance. They deserve consideration for three teams. But saying they should get four to six is a joke in my opinion. The CAA is an OK league, but there's no way they should be getting three bids even taking into account the limitations on who they were able to schedule.

Arkansas is a good win for us, too, and that's two more good wins than a lot of these other bubble teams have. Plus we've by and large avoided any really harmful losses which these other teams haven't done.
By RPI, Penn St has more impressive wins than Maryland this year. The committee has traditionally looked at record vs top 50 schools giving extra credit for neutral court and road wins. In those instances, Maryland is 1-7 with that win coming at home almost 3 months ago. I dont disagree that 10 schools out of those conferences is a bit much but I dont think that right now Maryland has enough of a case to get in ahead of other bubble teams like Seton Hall or Alabama.

[Max Power]

If the ACC is a crappy conference then there hasn't been a word invented for the MVC.

Median RPI
MVC - 38
ACC - 63

Top 50 RPI
MVC - 6
ACC - 5

Top 100 RPI
MVC - 6
ACC - 9


If you want to tell me why the RPI is flawed or how the selection committee is going to ignore it than please do so instead of that kind of lame response. I'm also interested to see how the 2006 version of the ACC isnt crappy compared to previous years which is the standard that it is going to be held to.

It really doesnt matter if Maryland beats every single team in the MVC on a neutral court because that isnt part of the selection process. RPI, SOS, quality wins, recent games, conference strength and several other factors do matter though which is all that I'm looking at when I say that I dont think the committee sees Md as a tourney team right now.

[Sports Guy]

Max...Did you watch the N. Iowa/Bucknell game? It took N. Iowa 2 OT's to beat Bucknell, and the students rushed the court as if it were their biggest win in years.

It is certainly a good story and there's obviously nothing wrong with situations like this. But when N. Iowa plays Bucknell in the same manner that teams like FSU, VA, or MD play Duke, I tink it's obvious that there is a very big gap there in terms of performance, talent, and potential.

I just feel that unless a mid major has a very good season but doesn't win the tournament, like Gonzaga if they would have won last night, that they should have to stick to winning their conference tournaments if they want to get in the Big Dance.


Way to be close minded...In case you have not been paying attention, alot of these mid major teams have faired extremely well in recent years in the tourney. No reason these teams can not/should not be in.

[Sports Guy]

And most of those teams have won their conference.

And as I said, if they have a very good year, like teams like Butler and Creighton have had in the past, then of course they should get in.

But again, if you have a team with basically the same record as a team in a top 5 Conference, I don't see how you justify the mid major getting in first.

I totally realize that there are teams in the mid major conferences who could make a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 run. But you like to talk about taking care of business, and I feel that for them, taking care of business should include at least beating 1 top 25 team, and then pretty much dominating your conference, as Gonzaga has done recently.

I just don't like to hear the excuse that they couldn't get any top teams scheduled. Mid majors should always be able to find teams that even if they aren't a big time program, it will still be a much better win than anything else that team has.

It is not an excuse, it is a fact.

In the other thread, you talk about the CAA. You have teams that have won 24-25 games, have a solid RPI and solid RPI conf ranking.

[Sports Guy]

On ESPN, they keep doing these blind team comparison...Shows overall record, top 50 wins, SOS...Things like that.

The teams from the MVC beat out teams like Indiana, Kentucky and Arizona. Now, the strength of the wins by the others teams are obviously better BUT there is essentially a mathematical formula for teams to get in.

Alot of these mid majors have everything over the power teams except SOS.

[BigSteve]

Median RPI
MVC - 38
ACC - 63

Top 50 RPI
MVC - 6
ACC - 5

Top 100 RPI
MVC - 6
ACC - 9


If you want to tell me why the RPI is flawed or how the selection committee is going to ignore it than please do so instead of that kind of lame response. I'm also interested to see how the 2006 version of the ACC isnt crappy compared to previous years which is the standard that it is going to be held to.

It really doesnt matter if Maryland beats every single team in the MVC on a neutral court because that isnt part of the selection process. RPI, SOS, quality wins, recent games, conference strength and several other factors do matter though which is all that I'm looking at when I say that I dont think the committee sees Md as a tourney team right now.

Which shows what a joke the RPI is. Does anyone really think that Missouri State and Hofstra are number 21 and 25 in the country? Does anyone really think those are better teams than (among others) Boston College, North Carolina State, West Virginia, and Georgetown?

Certainly the new RPI that took effect after 2004 helped conferences like the MVC. Their top five went from 25, 59, 68, 77, and 96 (04) to 17, 37, 44, 45, and 52 (05) to 21, 26, 28, 30, 34, and 42. (top six this year).

What's the reason for that? Well, the change caused home wins to be multiplied by a factor of 0.6 and road wins to be multiplied by a factor of 1.4. Conversely, home losses are multipled by 1.4 and road losses are multiplied by 0.6 (neutral games stay at 1 for a loss and 1 for a win).

It's easy to see why this would tip the balance between power conferences and mid majors. Home losses against even top teams get penalized while it's tough to go and play even the worst conference teams on the road in the ACC to get a win. Maryland gets penalized for losing to NC and Duke at home for instance.

Meanwhile, mid majors go into not-so-intimidating gyms and pick up road wins. Take Missouri State, 21st in the RPI. They took advantage of this to get bonuses for wins over Oral Roberts, Arkansas State, Drake, Evansville, Indiana State, Illinois State, Northern Iowa, and Wisconsin Milwaukee which bumped them up considerably as they only lost two home games. Somehow despite not playing anyone close to a top caliber team besides Arkansas, they have the sixth best nonconference RPI. What?

So to me, that's why the RPI is only slightly better than useless. Will the committee ignore it? Who knows? I do think that when the MVC#5 ahead of ACC#3 they're going to have to think twice. When three CAA teams didn't beat anyone but finish in the top 40, that has to cause a second look.


In the other thread, you talk about the CAA. You have teams that have won 24-25 games, have a solid RPI and solid RPI conf ranking.

And didn't beat anyone but each other and lost to horrible teams. Don't forget that.

[Sports Guy]

The botton line on the RPI is this:

The mid majors needed a way to get in the tourney. Major conference teams will not play them for the most part. So, it is hard for them to bump up their SOS.

Does that mean they should not get in? Of course not. Now, where it makes a huge difference is in seeding.

Take the Zags a few years ago...They got a 6th seed. And why? SOS.

[Sports Guy]

100% agreed.

The RPI is getting to be as big of a joke as the BCS.


That is a ridiculous comparison.

[Sports Guy]

Zags win by one...MD nation breathes a sigh of relief. LOL

[amoly22]

Yes, Big Steve finally brings in some intelligent commentary!!! I was afraid that the best we were going to get was SG's quotes from Lunardi, whose assessments of teams is apparently untouchable. Clearly, the RPI should only be used as a guide for evaluating teams. It really is important to examine the schedules. I thought my points in the other thread about the CAA show what such examinations can reveal.

[JohnD]

There was a great article in the Post yesterday or today about RPI and the MVC. Essentially, the article laid it out as if Northern Iowa got their big win over LSU early on and from there every team in the conference that beat them (and Northern Iowa finished in a tie for 5th) saw their RPI's go up.

If you ask me, from the MVC I'd put in Whichita State, SIU, and Northern Iowa. After that, the rest go to NIT land.

[mweb]

Seems like a lot of the great points by BigSteve are being ignored by the opposition.

[markpolis]

Agreed. He made some great points in this thread.

You are correct. BigSteve's rep is improving by the minute. :002_scool:

[Max Power]

Max...Did you watch the N. Iowa/Bucknell game? It took N. Iowa 2 OT's to beat Bucknell, and the students rushed the court as if it were their biggest win in years.

It is certainly a good story and there's obviously nothing wrong with situations like this. But when N. Iowa plays Bucknell in the same manner that teams like FSU, VA, or MD play Duke, I tink it's obvious that there is a very big gap there in terms of performance, talent, and potential.
I'm sorry but this really strikes me as someone who hasnt followed college basketball very closely this year. Bucknell is a very good team and unlike Virginia and FSU has actually been ranked in the top 25 this season. They are 3-3 in their big games with a home win over St Josephs and road victories over Syracuse and DePaul. They also beat a 3 seed in the first round of the tourney last year and gave Wisconsin a tough game in the second round which definitely raises this year's profile since they returned all but one player from that team.

I also cant see what rushing the court has to do with any of this and am sure that if you went to a podunk school like N Iowa you'd rush the court too if you ever happened to have a good win on ESPN.


I just feel that unless a mid major has a very good season but doesn't win the tournament, like Gonzaga if they would have won last night, that they should have to stick to winning their conference tournaments if they want to get in the Big Dance.
No you don't. You're expecting a spectacular season from a mid-major with only a couple losses. If Bucknell loses in the finals of their tourney they will be 24-5, isnt that very good? Most of the teams you've been crapping on have between 5-7 losses which has to qualify as very good seasons unless you're going to hold them to an absurd standard.

[mweb]

7 losses against mostly mediocre to bad competition is not an absurd standard imo.

[Max Power]

So to me, that's why the RPI is only slightly better than useless. Will the committee ignore it? Who knows? I do think that when the MVC#5 ahead of ACC#3 they're going to have to think twice. When three CAA teams didn't beat anyone but finish in the top 40, that has to cause a second look.
While everything else you said is true, this is really the only part of it worth discussing. If the selection committee ignores the RPI it would be a first. It would also immediately move several teams ahead of Maryland who have way more marquee wins so be careful what you wish for. I do think you see the CAA get discredited a bit by focusing more on top 50 RPI record but this is going to really hurt the Terps as well.

Maryland's strength right now is they finished .500 in a major conference and have a respectable RPI. Other than that, they really dont have much that the committee wants. Assuming a loss to BC they'd be 5-5 in the last 10, one good neutral court win, one marquee win against a bunch of losses to marquee opponents, and down year for the ACC. They then have to factor in how much worse would the team have been without McCray which isnt going to help their record. I hope they get in but I just dont see it happening without a win over BC.

[Max Power]

7 losses against mostly mediocre to bad competition is not an absurd standard imo.
Show me one team that is on the bubble that has lost 7 times against mostly mediocre competition. Northern Iowa beat both LSU and Iowa so they have to be pretty good dont they? They lost a bad game to Indiana St but every other loss is at least as respectable as losses to Temple and Clemson.

[mweb]

While everything else you said is true, this is really the only part of it worth discussing. If the selection committee ignores the RPI it would be a first. It would also immediately move several teams ahead of Maryland who have way more marquee wins so be careful what you wish for. I do think you see the CAA get discredited a bit by focusing more on top 50 RPI record but this is going to really hurt the Terps as well.

Maryland's strength right now is they finished .500 in a major conference and have a respectable RPI. Other than that, they really dont have much that the committee wants. Assuming a loss to BC they'd be 5-5 in the last 10, one good neutral court win, one marquee win against a bunch of losses to marquee opponents, and down year for the ACC. They then have to factor in how much worse would the team have been without McCray which isnt going to help their record. I hope they get in but I just dont see it happening without a win over BC.

That's fine, if MD doesn't get in because a team with a better resume other than rpi, I won't complain. I just don't see how a team like GM is more worthy.

[mweb]

Show me one team that is on the bubble that has lost 7 times against mostly mediocre competition. Northern Iowa beat both LSU and Iowa so they have to be pretty good dont they? They lost a bad game to Indiana St but every other loss is at least as respectable as losses to Temple and Clemson.

George Mason.

[Max Power]

Seems like a lot of the great points by BigSteve are being ignored by the opposition.
If you mean the selection committee than I'd agree. All of the "opponents" are simply applying the selection criteria to determine whether or not Maryland gets in as a team right now, not whether or not the MVC beats the ACC in a head-to-head challenge because that doesnt mean anything for a bid. BigSteve is right on quite a few points but if the selection committee has shown that it is going to ignore most of his points than why bother discussing them?

[Max Power]

George Mason.
But their losses arent that bad. Close road losses to Miss St and Wake Forest and everything else is pretty good. That being said, I think CAA only gets two and Hofstra should get in over George Mason since they beat them twice down the stretch.

I havent followed Old Dominion but they'd need an injury to a marquee player cite or some other extenuating circumstance because a 6-4 finish, only 1 good win, and a 9 loss season should eliminate them from consideration.

[mweb]

If you mean the selection committee than I'd agree. All of the "opponents" are simply applying the selection criteria to determine whether or not Maryland gets in as a team right now, not whether or not the MVC beats the ACC in a head-to-head challenge because that doesnt mean anything for a bid. BigSteve is right on quite a few points but if the selection committee has shown that it is going to ignore most of his points than why bother discussing them?

I think the points a lot of us are making are that MD along with some other schools should get in over GM. Not that they will get in over them.

Concerning your last question, the O's are going to ignore most if not all of what we say, so why bothering discussing what they should and shouldn't do.

[mweb]

But their losses arent that bad. Close road losses to Miss St and Wake Forest and everything else is pretty good. That being said, I think CAA only gets two and Hofstra should get in over George Mason since they beat them twice down the stretch.

I havent followed Old Dominion but they'd need an injury to a marquee player cite or some other extenuating circumstance because a 6-4 finish, only 1 good win, and a 9 loss season should eliminate them from consideration.

You asked for a team that has 7 losses, is on the bubble, and has played mostly mediocre to poor competition, I provided that team. And there are other teams with 5-7 losses who are on the bubble who have played mostly mediocre to poor competition.

[Max Power]

Well if you don't have my point now you likely aren't going to get it.

I said that N Iowa has to play their toughest games against teams like Bucknell. The teams like MD and VA have to play those games against Duke. Big difference.

Me bringing up rushing the court was just showing how big that game seemed to them. If they have to fight that hard just to beat Bucknell (who is a good team, which I never said they weren't, but are not close to being in the same class as Duke or NC, teams like that) how are they going to hang with the top dogs consistently?
But the problem here is that Maryland didnt beat any of their "big game" opponents. Scheduling these teams only helps schools if they can manage to beat them every once in a while. Maryland went 2-7 against top 50 RPI and only 4-4 against 51-100 schools which isnt all that impressive. Northern Iowa on the other hand beat two top 14 RPI schools in Iowa and LSU on the road which is why they get in over Md.

[Max Power]

I think the points a lot of us are making are that MD along with some other schools should get in over GM. Not that they will get in over them.

Concerning your last question, the O's are going to ignore most if not all of what we say, so why bothering discussing what they should and shouldn't do.
I dont think that is an apt comparison. I think what a lot of you are arguing here is closer to the Orioles deserving a playoff spot even though they finished third in the AL East over Oakland because the records were close and the Yankees and Red Sox are miles better than Seattle and Texas.


You asked for a team that has 7 losses, is on the bubble, and has played mostly mediocre to poor competition, I provided that team. And there are other teams with 5-7 losses who are on the bubble who have played mostly mediocre to poor competition.
Actually, I was asking for a team that has lost 7 games to mostly mediocre competition. George Mason lost 7 games but only 3 of those schools could qualify as mediocre.

[mweb]

But the problem here is that Maryland didnt beat any of their "big game" opponents. Scheduling these teams only helps schools if they can manage to beat them every once in a while. Maryland went 2-7 against top 50 RPI and only 4-4 against 51-100 schools which isnt all that impressive. Northern Iowa on the other hand beat two top 14 RPI schools in Iowa and LSU on the road which is why they get in over Md.

Northern Iowa has a good resume, my problem with them however, is they have 9 losses, and I don't think they played a tough schedule compared to teams in the Big East, Big Ten, or ACC. They've also lost 6 of the last 10, including 5 of the last 7. Those are two very good wins they got out of conference though.

[mweb]

I dont think that is an apt comparison. I think what a lot of you are arguing here is closer to the Orioles deserving a playoff spot even though they finished third in the AL East over Oakland because the records were close and the Yankees and Red Sox are miles better than Seattle and Texas.


Actually, I was asking for a team that has lost 7 games to mostly mediocre competition. George Mason lost 7 games but only 3 of those schools could qualify as mediocre.

I'm not even going to bother with the first paragraph. I just don't see what the problem is with arguing who should get in the tourney.

Well I don't know why you asked me that since that's not what I was talking about. I'm saying they've lost 7 games while playing mostly mediocre to poor teams.

[sportsfan14]

Lots of good points in this thread, especially by Big Steve. I just want to talk about MD's chances for a minute because the poll on this board is not getting much attention. Whether or not you believe the rpi is flawed, whether or not you believe MD is better than GM, that is not the issue for MD. The important question is how many tournament quality teams has MD beaten without McCray? (I know he didn't play well vs BC) Because of the answer to this question (0 as far as I can tell), I think beating BC is a must. thoughts?

[mweb]

Lots of good points in this thread, especially by Big Steve. I just want to talk about MD's chances for a minute because the poll on this board is not getting much attention. Whether or not you believe the rpi is flawed, whether or not you believe MD is better than GM, that is not the issue for MD. The important question is how many tournament quality teams has MD beaten without McCray? (I know he didn't play well vs BC) Because of the answer to this question (0 as far as I can tell), I think beating BC is a must. thoughts?

Depends on what other teams do. We will need help and to win a few tossups to get in the tourney without beating BC. Beating BC, and I think we should be in.

[BigSteve]

While everything else you said is true, this is really the only part of it worth discussing. If the selection committee ignores the RPI it would be a first. It would also immediately move several teams ahead of Maryland who have way more marquee wins so be careful what you wish for. I do think you see the CAA get discredited a bit by focusing more on top 50 RPI record but this is going to really hurt the Terps as well.

Maryland's strength right now is they finished .500 in a major conference and have a respectable RPI. Other than that, they really dont have much that the committee wants. Assuming a loss to BC they'd be 5-5 in the last 10, one good neutral court win, one marquee win against a bunch of losses to marquee opponents, and down year for the ACC. They then have to factor in how much worse would the team have been without McCray which isnt going to help their record. I hope they get in but I just dont see it happening without a win over BC.

I don't think RPI will be "ignored". It has traditionally been a great predictor of what teams are going to get an at-large and which teans aren't. However, I do think that the committee will take a long look at some of the numbers the RPI gives them.

Going back to Missouri State, they have the number six non conference RPI in the country. Take a closer look, and they beat almost literally a bunch of nobodies. Their only game against a team that would be considered a quality team is Arkansas and they lost. They get propped up by a few road wins, a good record, and avoiding anyone in the bottom 100 of DI. That's the type of think that will cause them to take a long second look, in my estimation.

Which teams would move ahead of Maryland (that aren't already there) because of good wins if the RPI was less important? And which of those teams aren't hindered by extremely questionable losses.

[Sports Guy]

Lots of good points in this thread, especially by Big Steve. I just want to talk about MD's chances for a minute because the poll on this board is not getting much attention. Whether or not you believe the rpi is flawed, whether or not you believe MD is better than GM, that is not the issue for MD. The important question is how many tournament quality teams has MD beaten without McCray? (I know he didn't play well vs BC) Because of the answer to this question (0 as far as I can tell), I think beating BC is a must. thoughts?


MD has to have 2 wins.

[Max Power]

I don't think RPI will be "ignored". It has traditionally been a great predictor of what teams are going to get an at-large and which teans aren't. However, I do think that the committee will take a long look at some of the numbers the RPI gives them.

Going back to Missouri State, they have the number six non conference RPI in the country. Take a closer look, and they beat almost literally a bunch of nobodies. Their only game against a team that would be considered a quality team is Arkansas and they lost. They get propped up by a few road wins, a good record, and avoiding anyone in the bottom 100 of DI. That's the type of think that will cause them to take a long second look, in my estimation.
I agree they'll look closer and their will be at least one team from the MVC and CAA *****ing next Sunday night but if you look at the next answer I think you'll see why they like using the RPI.


Which teams would move ahead of Maryland (that aren't already there) because of good wins if the RPI was less important? And which of those teams aren't hindered by extremely questionable losses.
Seton Hall, Louisville, Colorado, Florida St, Vanderbilt, Cal, South Carolina, and Minnesota all warrant consideration although I think only Seton Hall, FSU, Cal, and Colorado have legit arguments that they're better. The obvious problem here is that the only options are from the major conferences who usually have the most opportunities to beat top 25 schools where as a ODU or George Mason simply cant get enough of those games scheduled to have an equal amount of chances.

[sportsfan14]

MD has to have 2 wins.

I agree 100%, I'm trying to figure out why some people think beating GT is enough.

[orangedive]

I agree 100%, I'm trying to figure out why some people think beating GT is enough.

I think people feel that way because only one time has a team with a .500 record in the ACC not gotten invited to the tourney. Granted, it's a different conference since BC, Miami, and VT arrived, but history is on Maryland's side.

Having said that, I think the Terps need to win at least two to be guaranteed a spot.

[Ruzious]

MD has to have 2 wins.
I think you're right. While 19 wins sounds good, they don't have any impressive wins. It they lose to BC and get in the NCAA, I'll be surprised; though not shocked. Actually, it wouldn't totally shock me if they lose tonight.

[Max Power]

Awful day thus far for Maryland. A-10 picks up a second bid and Syracuse is now in. The Seton Hall loss helped yesterday but they cant have many more bubble teams having good tourney runs.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Awful day thus far for Maryland. A-10 picks up a second bid and Syracuse is now in. The Seton Hall loss helped yesterday but they cant have many more bubble teams having good tourney runs.


Wake beating FSU would be oh-so-lovely.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Wake beating FSU would be oh-so-lovely.

Yum! I looooove when that happens!

[Mackus]

Wake beating FSU would be oh-so-lovely.
Well Wake Forest really helped us out.

It'll be real interesting to see who, if either team does, gets the 5th ACC bid if Maryland wins tonight and loses tomorrow with FSU losing today.

[markpolis]

Well Wake Forest really helped us out.

It'll be real interesting to see who, if either team does, gets the 5th ACC bid if Maryland wins tonight and loses tomorrow with FSU losing today.

Syracuse beating UCONN doesn't help. Also, Temple beat GW today and could go on a run in the A-10 tourney.

[Mackus]

Syracuse beating UCONN doesn't help. Also, Temple beat GW today and could go on a run in the A-10 tourney.
It doesn't matter if Temple goes on a run, the A-10 is only getting 2 bids. So whoever wins and GW will get in. That does hurt.

Although I still think the FSU loss helps us more than the other wins hurt us. If we win today I think we might sneak ahead of FSU in terms of who gets to be the 5th team from the conference. Might still need to beat BC, but I think our chances are much better now that FSU lost than if they had won.

[MDFan]

Michigan loss to Minnesota(Who MD beat) helps out. Now MD has to to take advantage.

[esbird]

I think the NCAA selection committee will look at the team Maryland has on the court today. They were a much better team with Chris McCray and simply not a NCAA tournament team without him.
To be honest, they won't even win the NIT. Not having Gilcrest and McCray in the backcourt doomed this team. Teams that are better then them, such as Clemson won't make the NCAA's.

[Baltimore Chop]

I think the NCAA selection committee will look at the team Maryland has on the court today. They were a much better team with Chris McCray and simply not a NCAA tournament team without him.
To be honest, they won't even win the NIT. Not having Gilcrest and McCray in the backcourt doomed this team. Teams that are better then them, such as Clemson won't make the NCAA's.

I think we will have a better read on this after tonight's game. Maryland has really stepped up its defense the last few games, which has certainly made them look like a better team. You are seeing Maryland blocking a LOT more shots, and forcing their opponents to misfire on shots as well.

What is unclear is whether or not they can do this against the better teams, as they have certainly been able to do this against probable NIT teams such as Miami and Virginia.

Also, it's nice to see Jones finally starting to emerge as a player who can get the job done on both ends of the court. When on, Jones provides that 3 point threat that has been missing all year. Jones can do it -- he was a prolific 3 point shooter in high school, and I see no reason why he won't start to step it up at this point.

Honestly, I think they gained all the confidence they needed winning at UVa. It showed them that they can win games away from College Park.

Bottom line: Win tonight, and they're in. Lose tonight, and they're out. Plain and simple.

[Sports Guy]

FWIW, Lunardi has MD in his last 4 out as of his latest bracketology.

I think that is right...A loss tonight and i think they just miss out...Win tonight and they are in, without a doubt.

[Pedro Cerrano]

FWIW, Lunardi has MD in his last 4 out as of his latest bracketology.

I think that is right...A loss tonight and i think they just miss out...Win tonight and they are in, without a doubt.

I think it's absolutely insane that Seton Hall and Michigan are BOTH still in and MD is out even after what transpired this week. MD has a bette RPI and a MUCH better SOS than Seton Hall.

[Sports Guy]

I think it's absolutely insane that Seton Hall and Michigan are BOTH still in and MD is out even after what transpired this week. MD has a bette RPI and a MUCH better SOS than Seton Hall.
But Seton Hall has much better wins and were in a tougher conference and put up a better conference record than MD did.

I think SH should be in, based on the strength of that conference and their wins, particularly that great win at NC St(something MD did not do).

Now, i honestly do not know what Michigan has on its resume in terms of RPI and things like that.

BTW, is there a site out there that gives RPI, top 50 wins, SOS and things like that? ESPN used to do it but now you have to be a member to see all of that.

[amoly22]

Collegerpi.com has RPI rankings but they don't update it daily. In order to figure out top 50 wins, you have to look at their schedules. Yeah, I hate how you have to pay to get the ESPN stuff.

[MDFan]

BTW, is there a site out there that gives RPI, top 50 wins, SOS and things like that? ESPN used to do it but now you have to be a member to see all of that.[/QUOTE]

realtimerpi.com

[Pedro Cerrano]

The case for MD:

Maryland is 19-11 (8-8 ACC) and has won three straight games.

Maryland has held opponents to just 65.0 ppg in the last three wins, including 36.7% FG Pct. and 32.7% 3-pt. .FG Pct.

Maryland?s schedule is ranked as the 11th toughest in the country in the latest RPI Report (March 6), second only to Duke (No. 2) in the ACC.

Maryland?s RPI (47) ranks fifth among the 12 ACC teams.

Eight of the Terps? 11 losses have come against teams ranked in the top 35 in the latest RPI Report.

Six of Maryland?s losses have come against top-10 teams: #3 Duke,
#4 Gonzaga, #6 George Washington & #10 North Carolina.

The Terps have played eight games against teams currently ranked nationally in the top 25: #3 Duke (twice), #4 Gonzaga, #6 George Washington, #10 North Carolina (twice) , #11 Boston College & #22 NC State.

Maryland is the only team in the ACC to play four games against #3 Duke and #10 North Carolina.

Maryland defeated then #6 Boston College, 73-71.

The Terps defeated Arkansas, 75-62. The Hogs are currently ranked 45th in the RPI Report.


Noting the ACC...



The ACC has the best W-L record (20-15) in inter-conference play among the top six conferences in the RPI.

The ACC is the only conference in the Sagarin rankings to have every team ranked 100 or better ... every other conference has at least two teams ranked between 100-334.

ACC teams are 27-20 (57.4) against other Top 10 RPI conferences.

[StoneTheCrow]

But Seton Hall has much better wins and were in a tougher conference and put up a better conference record than MD did.


Agreed that they have some good wins, but the rest of their resume just doesn't add up. They have some bad losses, which MD doesn't have. A worse RPI (futhermore, one considered borderline for NCAAs). MUCH worse SOS. 5-5 in their last 10. Conference record is 9-8 now. Same as MD's.

MD really has to play well tonight.

[StoneTheCrow]

MDFan....try this:

http://kenpom.com/

[Max Power]

But Seton Hall has much better wins and were in a tougher conference and put up a better conference record than MD did.


Agreed that they have some good wins, but the rest of their resume just doesn't add up. They have some bad losses, which MD doesn't have. A worse RPI (futhermore, one considered borderline for NCAAs). MUCH worse SOS. 5-5 in their last 10. Conference record is 9-8 now. Same as MD's.

MD really has to play well tonight.
9-8 in the Big East is much better than the ACC this year. If Md loses tonight they are also 5-5 in their last 10.

I have no idea how Michigan is still in with Lunardi. 2-7 in their last 9 should remove them immediately from the discussion.

[BustaJ2632]

Miami up on Duke nearing halftime...

Throwing out a paranoid question, would a victory over Duke for the Canes put them back in the bubble picture yet?

[mweb]

9-8 in the Big East is much better than the ACC this year. If Md loses tonight they are also 5-5 in their last 10.

I have no idea how Michigan is still in with Lunardi. 2-7 in their last 9 should remove them immediately from the discussion.

But look at the schedule of Seton Hall in conference play.

UConn once.
Nova once.
Pitt once.
WV once.
GTown zero times.

So they played the top 5 teams only 4 times.

St Johns twice.
Rutgers 3 times.
South Florida twice.

Not sure that their 9-8 in conference is better than MD's 9-8.

Look at SH's losses: Rutgers(2), DePaul, St.Johns, Notre Dame, Northwestern, Richmond.

That's brutal.

And look how they played in their two toughest games.

At Duke: lost 93-40.
UConn: lost 99-57.

[mweb]

Miami up on Duke nearing halftime...

Throwing out a paranoid question, would a victory over Duke for the Canes put them back in the bubble picture yet?

I think Miami would have to win at least one more after Duke.

[Sports Guy]

I think Miami would have to win at least one more after Duke.
Yea but beating Duke does put them on the bubble, which is what he asked.

But yea they would still be out.

[Max Power]

But look at the schedule of Seton Hall in conference play.

UConn once.
Nova once.
Pitt once.
WV once.
GTown zero times.

So they played the top 5 teams only 4 times.

St Johns twice.
Rutgers 3 times.
South Florida twice.

Not sure that their 9-8 in conference is better than MD's 9-8.

Look at SH's losses: Rutgers(2), DePaul, St.Johns, Notre Dame, Northwestern, Richmond.

That's brutal.
But they actually won some of these games as opposed to Maryland. 5-4 against RPI top 50s is a huge plus, especially when 3 of those wins came on the road against tourney teams. No getting around the bad losses but I think they'll be overshadowed from having so many good wins and Seton Hall gets in.

[JohnD]

This is probably the only time I want to see Dook win. Don't need Miami muddying the joint up for us.

[mweb]

But they actually won some of these games as opposed to Maryland. 5-4 against RPI top 50s is a huge plus, especially when 3 of those wins came on the road against tourney teams. No getting around the bad losses but I think they'll be overshadowed from having so many good wins and Seton Hall gets in.

Yeah, that's possible, I wasn't necessarily saying MD deserves to be in over SH, just showing that SH doesn't have that good of a resume and they conference record isn't much better than MD's as you said.

[Max Power]

Yeah, that's possible, I wasn't necessarily saying MD deserves to be in over SH, just showing that SH doesn't have that good of a resume and they conference record isn't much better than MD's as you said.
Neither team has a very strong resume which is why we're discussing them.

Michigan though should be the team left out. I dont see how they ignore that finish and they dont have the overwhelming number of top 50 wins that Seton Hall has.

[mweb]

Neither team has a very strong resume which is why we're discussing them.

Michigan though should be the team left out. I dont see how they ignore that finish and they dont have the overwhelming number of top 50 wins that Seton Hall has.

Yeah, only 1 team has ever been selected after losing 7 of their last 9. So it will be interesting to see how the committee handles them.

[Nuclear Dish]

Miami up on Duke nearing halftime...


When will you guys learn to keep your mouths shut when things are going well?

[Ruzious]

This is probably the only time I want to see Dook win. Don't need Miami muddying the joint up for us.
Yeah! Duke won! :002_sbiggrin: :002_sconfused: :(

[BustaJ2632]

When will you guys learn to keep your mouths shut when things are going well?

Heh...hate to tell ya but I was with John on this one.

[Sports Guy]

When will you guys learn to keep your mouths shut when things are going well?


A loss would not have been a bad thing....Wake up big on NC St right now going into halftime..If they hold on, Duke will play a tired Wake team tommorrow. I guess they are in the finals.

I really would not have cared if they lost today or tommorrow but if they don't, i want UNC in the final.

[BustaJ2632]

The Main Reason I Hate the Big Ten:

Halftime
Wisconsin 19
Indiana 15