The Protest

[Tony-OH]

Well, the general consensus in the pressbox is the protest has about 750 people. I will give you this though, they are 750 Loud people. They are the only ones making noise here at the park besides the Tigers fan which seem to make up the most of the rest of the sparse crowd.

They have already started chants of "Sell our Team" and tried an unsuccessful wave.

Oh, bTW, the O's are down 3-0 to the Tigers. I'll let you know how things go at 5:08...

[Moose Milligan]

750, thats it? That's a downer.

I was thinking 2000 minimum.

EDIT: And there are more TIGER fans there? I know they're a good team, but really, how many Tiger fans are out there outside of the Detroit area?

Pathetic.

[Tony-OH]

Well, the general consensus in the pressbox is the protest has about 750 people. I will give you this though, they are 750 Loud people. They are the only ones making noise here at the park besides the Tigers fan which seem to make up the most of the rest of the sparse crowd.

They have already started chants of "Sell our Team" and tried an unsuccessful wave.

Oh, bTW, the O's are down 3-0 to the Tigers. I'll let you know how things go at 5:08...
Say what you want about the protest, but if the yard was filled with these types of fans, the Yard would be a rockin'.

They've started a "Let's Go Melvin chant." without being prompted.. which of course the Orioles ran an Orioles bugle charge over. :rolleyes:

[BaltimoreTerp]

We'll be waiting to hear, Tony.

We should have had someone infiltrate their ranks :D

[mattman0182]

Yea Im doing the game on the radio and I herd "Free The Birds" chants. Sounds like a lot more than 750 so they must be loud.

[CStoneNo37]

Is it wrong that I hope an Oriole hits a grand slam at 5:09 just for spite?

[Tony-OH]

Ok, they have started to chat "Sell our Team." it's 5;07....

It's 5:08 and they are heading out of the park while chanting "Sell our team"

Meanwhile the O's threaten to tie the game with loaded bases and no outs... Some are staying in their seats.

[CStoneNo37]

I have 5:09... Tatis up with the sacks jacked! :D

EDIT: not to be... :(

[ChrisP]

... Some are staying in their seats.

LOL, Doesn't that defeat the WHOLE point?:D

[BaltimoreTerp]

Ok, they have started to chat "Sell our Team." it's 5;07....

It's 5:08 and they are heading out of the park while chanting "Sell our team"

Meanwhile the O's threaten to tie the game with loaded bases and no outs... Some are staying in their seats.
Glad to see there is loyalty to the Cause...

[PaulFolk]

The protestors have filed out, rally be damned.

[Tony-OH]

The vast majority that stayed left after Tatis flew out for the first out. Maybe 50 people remain scattered through the upper left field deck.

[CStoneNo37]

Glad to see there is loyalty to the Cause...

No kidding... Wow.

EDIT: Nevermind... Only 50 no big deal.

[Moose Milligan]

The protestors have filed out, rally be damned.

Good to hear.

[Tony-OH]

They are now walking in one line through the seating bowl yelling "Sell our Team".

[BaltimoreTerp]

The vast majority that stayed left after Tatis flew out for the first out. Maybe 50 people remain scattered through the upper left field deck.
Hey, how many do you think left, through the whole park (if others left as well)?

[NewMarketSean]

Those who are getting hung up on the amount of people who are there -- it really doesn't matter. They came, they were vocal, and they left in protest. If it was 5 people doing the protest, it still happened, it made an impact (regardless of how big) and it's over. But it happened -- and it needed to happen.

That is the most important thing here.

Hopefully protests in the future will be better planned and coordinated, but I'm glad this happened today. Too bad it was during work hours, or else I would have been there.

[ChrisP]

They should have a sit-in and arm lock themselves together until PA agrees to sell.:D

[BaltimoreTerp]

They are now walking in one line through the seating bowl yelling "Sell our Team".
You can hear "Free the Birds" over the broadcast, and maybe somethign else as well.

[Frobby]

So who is in the press box? Any national media types checking this out? What's the overall reaction in the press box? I think it's pretty dramatic that the "witching hour" came right in the middle of a big rally. I've gotta say, I probably would have walked out and then snuck into another section to keep watching....

[MCL1021]

WMAR Channel 2 here in Baltimore just did a live report about the protest about 5 minutes ago or so. Very, very loud from what I can tell on the screen. Glad they made their presense known. If I didn't have to work today, I would have done it myself.

[Tony-OH]

Yeah, they were yelling "Free the birds", but it petered out after a few minutes. now it's an occasional yell.

[orioles119]

Yeah, they were yelling "Free the birds", but it petered out after a few minutes. now it's an occasional yell.
It's been 12 minutes since 5:08 and there's some "free the birds" still sounding - I'm listening on XM.

[Cokeman]

I mentioned in the game thread that its kind of ironic that the rally fizzled just as the protesters were walking out.

[MCL1021]

Are any announcers mentioning all this, or have they at all during the broadcast? Kinda wish this had been on TV....

Good for them, I can't stand Nestor really, but good for them nonetheless.

[Moose Milligan]

Glad to hear they got loud and marched around the lower level. Wonder where Angelos was during all this.

[Tony-OH]

So who is in the press box? Any national media types checking this out? What's the overall reaction in the press box? I think it's pretty dramatic that the "witching hour" came right in the middle of a big rally. I've gotta say, I probably would have walked out and then snuck into another section to keep watching....
The press box is mixed. One wag just said the crowd was made up of, "98 percent male, 110 percent stupid."

Others think it's fairly impressive. It really depends on who you overhear. :)

John Eisenberg and Peter Schmuck our here but I haven't seen any national guys.

[orioles119]

Glad to hear they got loud and marched around the lower level. Wonder where Angelos was during all this.
At Rosecroft...

[MCL1021]

Glad to hear they got loud and marched around the lower level. Wonder where Angelos was during all this.

Not in his chair at the warehouse. That seat has been cold for some time.....

[Moose Milligan]

Are any announcers mentioning all this, or have they at all during the broadcast? Kinda wish this had been on TV....

Good for them, I can't stand Nestor really, but good for them nonetheless.

Hopefully the Tiger broadcast has some of it covered. You know they probably don't care whether they're shown on tv or not.

Again, I think it's hilarious that people thought this wouldn't get attention.

[orioles119]

John Eisenberg and Peter Schmuck our here but I haven't seen any national guys.

What do they think about it? Or will we have to wait for their columns on Sunday?

[mattman0182]

Are any announcers mentioning all this, or have they at all during the broadcast? Kinda wish this had been on TV....

Good for them, I can't stand Nestor really, but good for them nonetheless.
Nothing has been said at all during the radio broadcast.

[Frobby]

Glad to hear they got loud and marched around the lower level. Wonder where Angelos was during all this.

In a dark room on the upper floor with the ventian blinds closed....if you get my drift...

[O'sMagic23]

Nothing has been said at all during the radio broadcast.

Like I said in the game thread, I'm sure the broadcasters were told to not say anything about the protest.

[Moose Milligan]

In a dark room on the upper floor with the ventian blinds closed....if you get my drift...

Brilliant!

[blueberryale77]

I'm listening to the Tigers' radio broadcast online. They've mentioned the protesters several times. It's hard to tell how they feel about their cause, but they seem amused by it. They commented that it looks like more people now that they are parading around the lower concourse single-file, but then they said they think the same people are moving around in circles so they look like more.

[Why Not?]

At 5:33, they are still doing some chanting. It was pretty audible on the radio broadcast. Good stuff.

[Tony-OH]

I'm listening to the Tigers' broadcast online. They've mentioned the protesters several times. It's hard to tell how they feel about their cause, but they seem amused by it. They commented that it looks like more people now that they are parading around the lower concourse single-file, but then they said they think the same people are moving around in circles so they look like more.
That's for sure. They kept coming out and out. It certainly looked like it could have been 1000-1200 people, but that's just an estimate. They were certainly vocal....

[blueberryale77]

Now the Tigers' broadcasters say the protest has pretty much fizzled out and most of the protesters have left. They also said there's been virtually no reaction from the fans who weren't there to protest. They said (not an exact quote because I'm not the fastest typist but close) 'someone had an idea, thought they could get some attention for their station, and they've done a pretty good job.'

[SoBo]

That's for sure. They kept coming out and out. It certainly looked like it could have been 1000-1200 people, but that's just an estimate. They were certainly vocal....

Good, I doubt it will make any material impact. Which sucks... Could anyone have predicted this day coming in 1997? Not this man...

[Why Not?]

The press box is mixed. One wag just said the crowd was made up of, "98 percent male, 110 percent stupid."


Sportswriters are among the most jaded and cynical people around.

[orioles119]

Now the Tigers' broadcasters say the protest has pretty much fizzled out and most of the protesters have left. They also said there's been virtually no reaction from the fans who weren't there to protest. They said (not an exact quote because I'm not the fastest typist but close) 'someone had an idea, thought they could get some attention for their station, and they've done a pretty good job.'
They should know about that in Detroit.

[orioles119]

Sportswriters are among the most jaded and cynical people around.
Goes right up there with OH posters... :p

[Tony-OH]

A guy from the examiner who was in the stands counted the protesters at 885 as they walked by....

[Sports Guy]

I told you guys they hadn't sold many tickets for it.

[Tony-OH]

Sportswriters are among the most jaded and cynical people around.
Trust me, you are not kidding. The guy who said that is a first class jerk, and no it wasn't my buddy from the Washington Post. :)

[mattman0182]

Radio broadcast is quiet now, i guess most of the people are gone.

[Tony-OH]

Radio broadcast is quiet now, i guess most of the people are gone.
Yep, they have filed out of the stadium. The place is crazy quiet now. No life....

[SoBo]

Sportswriters are among the most jaded and cynical people around.

I agree... What's so stupid about protesting a horrible FO that has turned a once proud franchise into an afterthought. And we're also the stupid fans that were once mentioned in the same breath as Cards, Yanks and Sawx fans. Depressing...

[PaulFolk]

Radio broadcast is quiet now, i guess most of the people are gone.
Yep, the protesters are gone.

[Birds of B'more]

Glad to hear they got loud and marched around the lower level. Wonder where Angelos was during all this.

Apparently he was at his law office downtown. In a Sun interview he makes a couple comments about the protest and Nestor.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-protest0921,0,5919029.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines


"Whoever joins that protest has no comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team," Angelos said in a telephone interview from his law office in Baltimore. "When you get down to facts, putting together a team that can compete in the AL East means having a payroll between $100-$110 million. That money comes from the consumer, and I have chosen to keep ticket prices to a minimum.

"Our payroll is $75 million, and our ticket prices average $22. Some of the teams we compete against charge an average of $45," Angelos said. "We're going to have to match the competition. How to do that is a decision I will make in the future."


"He [Nestor] is a very unimportant person who has delusions of grandeur," Angelos said. "To begin with, to leave in the middle of the game is an abuse of the players who have worked hard and played their hearts out."

[Frobby]

Sounds to me like the protesters who were there did a very good job. Cheered loudly for the team, got up when they said they would, made their point firmly but in an orderly way, and left. No major incidents or inappropriate conduct. I say thanks to them.

[SoBo]

Yep, they have filed out of the stadium. The place is crazy quiet now. No life....
That alone should be the statement for the entire "Rally." The fact that 885 fans could be loud enough to bring some life to a meaningless game. And now there is nothing but crickets to be heard. The same crickets that have been heard at Camden Yards for the past 2 months.

[BaltimoreTerp]

One of the TV channels (I think it was BAL, but I can't remember which I was watching at the time) mentioned that the organization refused comment (not surprising).

[mattman0182]

The protesters were louder than the people who simply came to root for their team. Im sure the Tiger fans there got a kick out of the whole situation.

[Sports Guy]

Apparently he was at his law office downtown. In a Sun interview he makes a couple comments about the protest and Nestor.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-protest0921,0,5919029.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines

Harsh words by PA.

Doesn't he understand that people will pay more m oney per ticket to see a better product?

[orioles119]

Sounds to me like the protesters who were there did a very good job. Cheered loudly for the team, got up when they said they would, made their point firmly but in an orderly way, and left. No major incidents or inappropriate conduct. I say thanks to them.
Deadspin's take...

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/baseball/get-down-to-camden-to-like-protest-and-stuff-202255.php

[Birds of B'more]

Harsh words by PA.

Doesn't he understand that people will pay more m oney per ticket to see a better product?

Obviously not.

[Tony-OH]

Harsh words by PA.

Doesn't he understand that people will pay more m oney per ticket to see a better product?
Demand drives ticket prices.

[SoBo]

Apparently he was at his law office downtown. In a Sun interview he makes a couple comments about the protest and Nestor.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-protest0921,0,5919029.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines

Whelp, there ya go folks. It's our fault that we can't spend $110mm to compete with the Sawx and Yanks. Ummm, Pete, no there are plenty of teams that compete at your current payroll. It's just that you as the captain of this ship haven't allowed baseball people to make the decisions in order to compete with the Yanks and Sawx. I'm so done with this guy. At the very least the Rally has gotten PA to show his true colors again. Thanks Pete.

[Frobby]

"Whoever joins that protest has no comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team," Angelos said in a telephone interview from his law office in Baltimore. "When you get down to facts, putting together a team that can compete in the AL East means having a payroll between $100-$110 million. That money comes from the consumer, and I have chosen to keep ticket prices to a minimum.

"Our payroll is $75 million, and our ticket prices average $22. Some of the teams we compete against charge an average of $45," Angelos said. "We're going to have to match the competition. How to do that is a decision I will make in the future."


"He [Nestor] is a very unimportant person who has delusions of grandeur," Angelos said. "To begin with, to leave in the middle of the game is an abuse of the players who have worked hard and played their hearts out."

What a jerk. "Whoever joins that protest has no comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team." That's not the issue. The issue is that HE has no comprehension of how to RUN a baseball team.

Is he threatening to jack up ticket prices? HA! If he thought losing 450,000 in paid attendance this year was bad, wait until next year.

[Sports Guy]

Demand drives ticket prices.


And demand goes up when you have a real product on the field.

[Tony-OH]

And demand goes up when you have a real product on the field.
Absolutely!!!

[SoBo]

Demand drives ticket prices.

Winning drives ticket sales...

[AnythingO's]

[QUOTE=Sports Guy]Harsh words by PA.QUOTE]
Seems like an egde to his comments so maybe the protest got more attention than they admit. Anyone have an idea what portion of the $75 million is covered by game attendance versus MLB income?

[Sports Guy]

What a jerk. "Whoever joins that protest has no comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team." That's not the issue. The issue is that HE has no comprehension of how to RUN a baseball team.

Is he threatening to jack up ticket prices? HA! If he thought losing 450,000 in paid attendance this year was bad, wait until next year.


That about sums it up.

Basically, he says you can't protest and voice your opinion.

[SoBo]

That about sums it up.

Basically, he says you can't protest and voice your opinion.


Seriously, how can anyone defend this dude.

[BigSkip]

Could Angelos possibly have a worse response? I mean, telling people he's keeping the payroll low FOR THE FANS... pathetic.

[OregonBird]

The Orioles sure do make me appreciate the Ravens super bowl run in '00-'01.

There's nothing better than having a winning team on a run. The electricity in the air, the magic, the dominance as well as the fortuitous bounces. The atmosphere made me excited to go to work downtown every morning. It's like people stopped acting like jackasses for awhile b/c they were so proud.

A damn shame we can't do this in baseball as well.

[Avsfan]

I'm kind of with management on this one....leaving halfway through the game (much less at some stupid combination of numbers relating to orioles star players jersey #'s) is pretty dumb.

[mattman0182]

Winning drives ticket sales...
I love the O's and have been to three games this year. I have not payed for a single ticket and will not do so until things get better. PA is pretty much blaming the fans for the inferiority of the team, thats as low as you can get.

[Boca Bird]

Didn't the O's raise ticket prices in 2004 for an absolute monstrousity of a team?


What was the logic then, Pete ?


Oh yeah, Forbes had it as the most profitable team in baseball.


C'mon Pete, spin us yet another yarn about how the O's keep losing money. You know the story, the one you've been telling us since 1996 :mad:

[Frobby]

"No comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team." OK Peter, open your books. Let's see what you get from gate attendance, concessions, the MLB deal involving the Nats, from local TV and radio, from revenue sharing, from the national TV contract, from MLB.com, from licensing, and now from MASN..

What B.S. "Some teams charge $45 per ticket." What about the other 11 team in the AL that don't, 9 of which have a better record than we do, and 8 of which beat us head-to-head when we played them?

[JohnD]

My take on it all, though I'm not there for it.

http://www.orioleshangout.com/article.asp?ID=661

[SoBo]

"No comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team." OK Peter, open your books. Let's see what you get from gate attendance, concessions, the MLB deal involving the Nats, from local TV and radio, from revenue sharing, from the national TV contract, from MLB.com, from licensing, and now from MASN..

What B.S. "Some teams charge $45 per ticket." What about the other 11 team in the AL that don't, 9 of which have a better record than we do, and 8 of which beat us head-to-head when we played them?

Thank you, thank you, thank you! At the very least the Rally has shown what an idiot he really is.

[Boca Bird]

"No comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team." OK Peter, open your books. Let's see what you get from gate attendance, concessions, the MLB deal involving the Nats, from local TV and radio, from revenue sharing, from the national TV contract, from MLB.com, from licensing, and now from MASN..

What B.S. "Some teams charge $45 per ticket." What about the other 11 team in the AL that don't, 9 of which have a better record than we do, and 8 of which beat us head-to-head when we played them?


Seriously !!!! Enlighten us Pete, open the books!!!!


Better yet, if you keep losing so much money, sell the team.:rolleyes:

[The Wedge]

"Whoever joins that protest has no comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team," Angelos said in a telephone interview from his law office in Baltimore. "When you get down to facts, putting together a team that can compete in the AL East means having a payroll between $100-$110 million. That money comes from the consumer, and I have chosen to keep ticket prices to a minimum.

"Our payroll is $75 million, and our ticket prices average $22. Some of the teams we compete against charge an average of $45," Angelos said. "We're going to have to match the competition. How to do that is a decision I will make in the future."


"He [Nestor] is a very unimportant person who has delusions of grandeur," Angelos said. "To begin with, to leave in the middle of the game is an abuse of the players who have worked hard and played their hearts out."

Told you guys it wouldn't matter to Angelos. His ego and hubris are phenomenal, though, aren't they? It's a fascinating study.

[Tony-OH]

Tell you what, whatever remains of the 17,877 is about 75% Tigers fan. That's just pitiful.

[Sports Guy]

Tell you what, whatever remains of the 17,877 is about 75% Tigers fan. hat's just pitiful.

Yea, when did Tiger fans start traveling?

[Boca Bird]

Yea, when did Tiger fans start traveling?


Right after they signed Mags :D :p :002_ssmile: :002_sbiggrin: :002_stongue:

[Why Not?]

Yea, when did Tiger fans start traveling?

Especially for single games, on weekday afternoons.

[Frobby]

Yea, when did Tiger fans start traveling?

Well, if you were a latent Tiger fan whose team hasn't made the playoffs in more than a decade, wouldn't you show up for a game with 10 days left in the season and a one-game lead for your team in its division?

[Witchy Chick]

Seriously !!!! Enlighten us Pete, open the books!!!!


Better yet, if you keep losing so much money, sell the team.:rolleyes:

Maybe that can be the next step on the protest bandwagon -- demanding Angelos open up the books. I mean, he's offered to do it in the past. That doesn't mean much, I know, since he's also offered to "field a competitive team" and "be in the faces/on the heels of the Yankees and Red Sox" too. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Witchy

[Tony-OH]

Tell you what, whatever remains of the 17,877 is about 75% Tigers fan. That's just pitiful.
I take that estimate back, on the double play that ended the Tigers 8th, the crowd was clearly O's heavy. they were just quiet all day since the team is down 3-2.

[Tony-OH]

I take that estimate back, on the double play that ended the Tigers 8th, the crowd was clearly O's heavy. they were just quiet all day since the team is down 3-2.
BTW, i just saw an usher behind home plate move two guys out of fourth row empty seats. These apparent "cheaters" actually had tickets for the tenth row in the same section. Just Wow!!!

[dgroomes]

Apparantly AP wrote an article about it and it has been picked up on the national news services

http://www.yahoo.com

[NewOrioleWork]

BTW, i just saw an usher behind home plate move two guys out of fourth row empty seats. These apparent "cheaters" actually had tickets for the tenth row in the same section. Just Wow!!!

You're surprised?

Seat hopping hasn't been cool at OPCY in quite a while. A friend and I got screwed a couple of times last year because of it: despite that we waited until the 6th inning to move to empty seats.

[NewOrioleWork]

Apparantly AP wrote an article about it and it has been picked up on the national news services

http://www.yahoo.com

Direct link:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-orioles-fanprotest&prov=ap&type=lgns

[NewMarketSean]

I appreciate the care on the part of the fans but I can't help but thinking that this was a very bad time do to this.

We waited long enough. This should have been done 2-3 years ago, IMO.


Think FA's want to come here after this? Especially if it goes national?

Think they would have come as things stand now? Atleast FA's will know that the fans care and demand better.


Think B-Rob and Bedard want to sign back up to go through this again?

See above.


Also If we have the kind of offseason I think we will and have thought we would for a while now, we won't hear the end of Nestor thinking that he had an impact on it.

Small price to, now isn't it? You can also not listen to him too. And say what you will about Nestor, but he had an impact today. You have to think that this will be on Angelos' mind come this offseason, regardless of what Angelos has to say in the Sun. His harsh words proved that this protest got under his skin.

[OregonBird]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2597721

ESPN has it as well, although its the same AP story from Yahoo, Sun, etc.

[GlennGulliver11]

Yea, when did Tiger fans start traveling?
When Southwest started offering $49 fares from Detroit to BWI this month.

[OregonBird]

I appreciate the care on the part of the fans but I can't help but thinking that this was a very bad time do to this.

Think FA's want to come here after this? Especially if it goes national?

Think B-Rob and Bedard want to sign back up to go through this again?

Also If we have the kind of offseason I think we will and have thought we would for a while now, we won't hear the end of Nestor thinking that he had an impact on it.

FA's won't want to come here b/c of the malaise that has set in with this organization after 9 yrs of losing. The same reason B-rob and Bedard won't re-sign here. That will overshadow any mention of 1k fans who walked out b/c they were po'ed at The Peter.

[Tony-OH]

Sean Welsh of the Baltimore Examiner will have a good piece in tomorrow's paper. He's got a comment from Chris Gomez, the first player to recognize the protest publicly that I'm aware of.

[NewMarketSean]

Sean Welsh of the Baltimore Examiner will have a good piece in tomorrow's paper. He's got a comment from Chris Gomez, the first player to recognize the protest publicly that I'm aware of.

And if there was a player I wanted to hear from about the protest -- it's Chris Gomez. :rolleyes: (not at you, Tony)

Thanks for the heads up Tony. I expect the papers to be crowded with articles about the protest tomorrow.

[MCL1021]

NMS, I think you are right, he wouldn't have had such words if it didn't bother him that the fans are actually showing some gull and protesting this joke of an organization.

Wake up you idiot, we're not going to take your same song and dance BS any longer!

And the crap that he spewed the other day about how it's OUR fault that we can't compete in the AL East because the attendance is down, is some of the most ridiculous crap I have ever heard....is it wrong to partially hope that we again don't get anything done this off-season and then us as fans really give Angelos the big FU and the middle finger by attendance being down and what not?

[OregonBird]

I think its more likely that Peter gives us the Big F'U....

It's not a good offseason to shop for FA's. Carlos Lee is going to get a crazy contract, so will Soriano. We'll get outbid on those guys so the trade market will get interesting.

Having money to spend is one thing. Wisely spending it is another. I like what I hear from Duquette but I'm afraid we won't spend wisely.

[Ovechkin]

Sean that's not the point.

I just don't want to go on to have success and have people saying, well if it wasn't for Nestor and his wonderful idea, we would be in our x losing season in a row.

And Angelos is the last guy IMO who will make moves because he thinks he is forced to. If anything, I can see him screwing the team over for next year just to make a point that no one can tell him how to run a team.
Don't worry we will never have success with Sweet Pete. As for screwing us over he's been doing that for 9 years why should next year be any different?

[Ovechkin]

Absolutely!!!
Thank you! When will fans understand that ticket prices cause high salaries not the other way around? The more demand for a ticket the higher the price, the higher the price the more money the owner has to spend on talent. Because of Angelos' mismanagement we are stuck in no man's land. We can't afford to raise ticket prices and without higher prices we don't have the money to spend so it's dependant on the farm system to get a winner. Don't hold your breath on that! As for MASN it's hard for that to be a money maker until people want to watch the station so the only hope is Angelos decides to take the huge payoff of selling the team with MASN he could get 400 mil.

[Andy_Dufresne]

MEMO

To: Orioles Fans & MLB
From: P.A. Angelos, Esq. Owner
RE: The Future of Orioles Baseball

WE SURRENDER



"Whoever joins that protest has no comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team," Angelos said in a telephone interview from his law office in Baltimore. "When you get down to facts, putting together a team that can compete in the AL East means having a payroll between $100-$110 million. That money comes from the consumer, and I have chosen to keep ticket prices to a minimum.

"Our payroll is $75 million, and our ticket prices average $22. Some of the teams we compete against charge an average of $45," Angelos said. "We're going to have to match the competition. How to do that is a decision I will make in the future."

[NewMarketSean]

Sean that's not the point.

I just don't want to go on to have success and have people saying, well if it wasn't for Nestor and his wonderful idea, we would be in our x losing season in a row.

And Angelos is the last guy IMO who will make moves because he thinks he is forced to. If anything, I can see him screwing the team over for next year just to make a point that no one can tell him how to run a team.

So are you hoping the O's continue to lose just so Nestor doesn't have the chance to say he's the one who made the O's better?

I don't care who takes responsibility for the team getting better -- I just want it to happen.

[dslats715]

Guys I just got back from it.

It was a lot of fun. It was great to finally feel an excited baseball crowd (I'm only 20). I've honestly never experienced that at a ball game. I have Ravens season tickets and love the intensity.

I took some pictures if anyone would want to see my .zip I uploaded let me know. I also just want to say it felt like you were apart of something while u were there. It was loud, and overall clean and respectable.

As me, my friend, and my dad left, 3 guys in suits told us good riddance at the warehouse :/

I thought that was unappropriate.

Anyway let me know if you want the link to the pictures. THANKS!

EDIT*

http://www.weewoo.net/photos/FreeTheBirds_06_dano.zip
^ thats a link to the pictures I took. There are some good ones in there. Let me know what you all think.

[The Kid]

ESPN just closed out the 7PM SportsCenter with some clips from the walkout!

[PeteCanes]

"Whoever joins that protest has no comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team," Angelos said in a telephone interview from his law office in Baltimore. "When you get down to facts, putting together a team that can compete in the AL East means having a payroll between $100-$110 million. That money comes from the consumer, and I have chosen to keep ticket prices to a minimum.

"Our payroll is $75 million, and our ticket prices average $22. Some of the teams we compete against charge an average of $45," Angelos said. "We're going to have to match the competition. How to do that is a decision I will make in the future

Peter, you are running the team like a business, that's fine. If you can't afford to put a successful product out for the consumers, and business lags because of it, it's the consumers' fault? If you can't afford a baseball team, sell it, make your huge profit and be done with it. What else is there to explain to you? We fans obviously haven't realized the serious money problems that you have going for you in your life. Your situation makes me feel a little better about my own money problems where I am 375 dollars overdrawn in my checking acount. Thanks for making me feel a bit better.

[BaltimoreTerp]

This interview comes off as very rash and unintellegent, especially for someone who seems to make an effort (as futile as it may truely be) to make measured arguements and statements to support his beliefs.

Definitely sounds like it is getting HIS attention, which, depending on what happens with the coverage and what comes out of the front office, is more then I thought would happen.

Won't say I was wrong yet, but it looks like more then expected.

[PeteCanes]

Angelos' attitude towards the fans in the face of these losing seasons is unacceptable. I declare shenanigans and demand reparations.





Reparations Jerry!

[NewOrioleWork]

http://wjz.com/topstories/local_story_264145907.html

With video.

[bgfield]

Angelos' logic is stupid. Right now, we have a payroll of about $75 million. We do that with our average ticket cost of $22, and on average filling maybe 60% of the stadium.

Well, if we doubled the payroll, put together a winning team, we might actually start selling the stadium out and you'd be able to keep the same ticket prices. Not to mention any added revenue from MASN. This can be a winning team, Angelos just isn't capable of hiring the right people or allowing the right moves to be made.

[Mark J]

Apparently he was at his law office downtown. In a Sun interview he makes a couple comments about the protest and Nestor.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-protest0921,0,5919029.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines

What a lame excuse about the payroll. Could you imagine if he tried to use that argument for a client of his law firm? Angelos: "Do you know what it costs to hire top lawyers and compete with other top lawyers?" We could try to win this case for you but then we'd have to charge you a higher fee and that just wouldn't be fair."

He sounds ridiculous. And he totally dismisses the fans who protested. At least Flanagan's comments about the protest recognized the passion of the fans who did it.

[weams]

Winning drives ticket sales...


When the teams were good, I was on the season ticket list for 5 years before I got my shot. I lived 90 minutes away and only had Sundays off.
I bought the 13 game Sunday plan so that I could stay "in". If I could go I did,
If i couldn't I gave them to my employees or friends and they were always a welcome gift. The place was always packed, and the Flag court was always full. After the dark ages crept up, I found that I could no longer give my spares away, and that I could give up my spot in line and still get good tickets anytime I wanted. So I gave them up. If they had remained a precious commodity, I am sure I would have retained them.

[dslats715]

Hahah. Angelos is either shaking in his boots or a blabbering idiot.

Twisted pointless logic.

The game was exciting. The rally was fun and great. The players acknowledged us and pointed (especially Miggy). I don't know where Flannagan got off saying we'd be disrespectable. We were far from it. I hope it does something, and even if it doesn't it allowed me to have fun at the ball park for the first time in quite awhile.

[weams]

Seriously !!!! Enlighten us Pete, open the books!!!!


Better yet, if you keep losing so much money, sell the team.:rolleyes:


That would be a rather grand ROI.

[SoBo]

When the teams were good, I was on the season ticket list for 5 years before I got my shot. I lived 90 minutes away and only had Sundays off.
I bought the 13 game Sunday plan so that I could stay "in". If I could go I did,
If i couldn't I gave them to my employees or friends and they were always a welcome gift. The place was always packed, and the Flag court was always full. After the dark ages crept up, I found that I could no longer give my spares away, and that I could give up my spot in line and still get good tickets anytime I wanted. So I gave them up. If they had remained a precious commodity, I am sure I would have retained them.

Man it was only 5 years ago that I couldn't wait to jump in with a friend that had a full season slate. Now I have several friends that work for the O's and I can get premium tix anytime I want them. And I've only been to 3 games this year. Now part of that is because I travel 4 days a week for work, but mostly because of the product on the field.

I still remember being at the first playoff game at OPACY. Had horrible seats. But it's a day I will never forget. My Bro and I holding up a big Sportscenter Next sign, Bobby Bo's Grand Slam and O's fans on every single pitch! I just want that back. That's all...

[weams]

Man it was only 5 years ago that I couldn't wait to jump in with a friend that had a full season slate. Now I have several friends that work for the O's and I can get premium tix anytime I want them. And I've only been to 3 games this year. Now part of that is because I travel 4 days a week for work, but mostly because of the product on the field.

I still remember being at the first playoff game at OPACY. Had horrible seats. But it's a day I will never forget. My Bro and I holding up a big Sportscenter Next sign, Bobby Bo's Grand Slam and O's fans on every single pitch! I just want that back. That's all...


And that's why I am still here whining...I have been an O's fan for life and I want to be proud again.

[rolliefingers]

I just got back as well.

First off: While Nestor is an enormous...feminine hygiene product...I gotta say, he really pulled it off. He drew attention to a cause - about which few of us disagree, I'd wager - and did it without crassly promoting himself or his station. He's clearly gotten under the skin of Angelos (who comes off as more of an idiot every time he opens his mouth, impossible as that might seem), despite his protests that he doesn't care.

I did think the incessant cheering at the beginning of the game was a little disingenuous - your stated objective was to tell Angelos to selll the team, not cheer like it's a freaking World Series game. Where was that cheering the other 80 games of the year? I think they could have done better by just sticking to anti-Angelos cheers; the "Let's go Mora!" ones came off as kind of beside the point. Stay on message!

I did not participate in the protest, but I do think it did good. I just hope that the players don't think it was about them (although I do hope that many of them don't even sniff Camden Yards next year :D It's not their fault they suck and we signed them!). It's about Angelos, and nothing else.

[rolliefingers]

Man it was only 5 years ago that I couldn't wait to jump in with a friend that had a full season slate. Now I have several friends that work for the O's and I can get premium tix anytime I want them. And I've only been to 3 games this year. Now part of that is because I travel 4 days a week for work, but mostly because of the product on the field.

I still remember being at the first playoff game at OPACY. Had horrible seats. But it's a day I will never forget. My Bro and I holding up a big Sportscenter Next sign, Bobby Bo's Grand Slam and O's fans on every single pitch! I just want that back. That's all...Preach it, brother.

[GlennGulliver11]

Man it was only 5 years ago that I couldn't wait to jump in with a friend that had a full season slate. Now I have several friends that work for the O's and I can get premium tix anytime I want them. And I've only been to 3 games this year. Now part of that is because I travel 4 days a week for work, but mostly because of the product on the field.

I still remember being at the first playoff game at OPACY. Had horrible seats. But it's a day I will never forget. My Bro and I holding up a big Sportscenter Next sign, Bobby Bo's Grand Slam and O's fans on every single pitch! I just want that back. That's all...

I feel your pain SoBo. I couldn't get any tickets for the 79 playoffs or series; in 83 I got to go to game 2 and saw a Mike Boddicker gem to even the series up. Even during those awful mid to late 80s teams, you never lost hope that things would turn around soon. Married with kids in the mid 90s, and I couldn't get to the playoffs. But with winning seasons in 92,93,94, 96 and 97, I knew Oriole Magic was back. How the hell could anyone have thought it would come to this?

I miss those days, not for me, but for my son. He's never experienced the joy of going to a game in September while fighting for the pennant. In fact he doesn't even care about baseball. I wish he knew what he's missing.

[SteveA]

The first major purchase I made in the fall of 1988 when I got out of college was a 13 game plan in the Terrace Box seats in Memorial Stadium. If you had told me then that by 2003 I would give up my season tickets because I could never find anyone interested in going to the game with me, I never would have believed it for a minute. But after eating so many tickets when I couldn't find someone to go with, or going to games alone, I gave it up in 2003.

Anyway, I was at the rally today and it was a lot of fun. Definitely more than 1000 folks wearing black in teh left field upper deck. We were chanting and yelling and doing O-R-I-O-L-E-S. I'd forgotten you co uld do things like that at a baseball game.

We left on schedule at 5:08...obviously it takes time to empty out seats so it took several minutes to empty out the section. We continued chanting all the way down the ramp, moving slowly as a herd. T here were camera crews from the local news set up across Camden Street so we flashed our signs from the side of the ramp at them.

When we got to the lower deck we found that we were slolwy forcing our group into the Section 79 concourse entrance to march around the lower concourse to Eutaw Street. We marched peacefully around the concourse, holding our signs and changint sell the team and other things. I want to say the ushers and police were all very respectful and did a good job...they didn't confront everybody, they just stood and let us slowly walk around the concourse, onto the flag court, down Eutaw Street and out the door. They were extremely respectful of the protestors and didn't try to stop our procession through the lower bowl even though that walking through some very high priced ticket sections that we obviously didn't have tickets to.

Yeah, I missed an exciting finish. But if not for the protest, I would have been listening to it in the office on the radio anyway. I'm certainly not going to use my vacation hours for a meaningless Detroit game on a Thursday afternoon in September if not to be part of what I was today.

It was a great crowd, spontaneous chants would start up of "Ed-die" or "Davey Johnson" or "Elrod Hendricks", along with O-R-I-O-L-E-S or cheering on hitters that were at bat, especially Melvin or Miggy.

I think we made a strong point. It may not amount to anything. But for me, it was great to remember what a baseball crowd could be like, with fans who cared and enjoyed the game.

[SoBo]

I feel your pain SoBo. I couldn't get any tickets for the 79 playoffs or series; in 83 I got to go to game 2 and saw a Mike Boddicker gem to even the series up. Even during those awful mid to late 80s teams, you never lost hope that things would turn around soon. Married with kids in the mid 90s, and I couldn't get to the playoffs. But with winning seasons in 92,93,94, 96 and 97, I knew Oriole Magic was back. How the hell could anyone have thought it would come to this?

I miss those days, not for me, but for my son. He's never experienced the joy of going to a game in September while fighting for the pennant. In fact he doesn't even care about baseball. I wish he knew what he's missing.

See, that's what scares me! I grew up in the '80's where you got into fights with guys over who was better, Cal or Eddie. I always sided with Eddie. But it was really the 89 "why not" season when I was in 7th grade when I began to bleed orange and black. I mean our cafeteria had why not stuff all over it during September. My wife and I trying for our first. Which is a good time, btw. I already grew up without a football team. I don't want my son (I pray) to grow up with out a baseball team..

[RZNJ]

From PA's quotes, he seems to think it's all about the money. I don't know about the rest of you but my dissatisfaction goes deeper than that. He seems to think that the fans' major gripe is increasing the payroll. I thought it was about firing Jon Miller, running Davey Johnson & Pat Gillick out of town, having a revolving door of managers and GM's, hiring the wrong people to run the baseball operations, and thinking he could invent a new way to run a baseball team by hiring co-GM's. Not to mention, interfering too much in baseball decisions and being too slow to make decisions. A team with a 75 million dollar payroll should be a lot better than what we've had the last 9 years. I know I missed a bunch of things too!

[TonySoprano]

Demand drives ticket prices.Oligopolists (e.g. baseball owners) don't understand market forces.

[rolliefingers]

From PA's quotes, he seems to think it's all about the money. I don't know about the rest of you but my dissatisfaction goes deeper than that. He seems to think that the fans' major gripe is increasing the payroll. I thought it was about firing Jon Miller, running Davey Johnson & Pat Gillick out of town, having a revolving door of managers and GM's, hiring the wrong people to run the baseball operations, and thinking he could invent a new way to run a baseball team by hiring co-GM's. Not to mention, interfering too much in baseball decisions and being too slow to make decisions. A team with a 75 million dollar payroll should be a lot better than what we've had the last 9 years. I know I missed a bunch of things too!That's where it all started, and I saw some of the protestors holding up signs referencing those moves. It's way deeper than just not spending X amount of dollars.

[rolliefingers]

Oligopolists (e.g. baseball owners) don't understand market forces.Particularly not oligopolists who have a guaranteed minimum sales price for their company.

[TonySoprano]

We waited long enough. This should have been done 2-3 years ago, IMO.
Flanagan did say this was bad timing.;)

[mweb]

A big problem with PA's response is that he seems to assume we just want him to spend more. That would be nice, but really, our main problem is simply how he has run the team. A decently run team would have at least a couple winning seasons in the last 9 with a 70-75M payroll. The team has been run poorly to say the least.

[mweb]

From PA's quotes, he seems to think it's all about the money. I don't know about the rest of you but my dissatisfaction goes deeper than that. He seems to think that the fans' major gripe is increasing the payroll. I thought it was about firing Jon Miller, running Davey Johnson & Pat Gillick out of town, having a revolving door of managers and GM's, hiring the wrong people to run the baseball operations, and thinking he could invent a new way to run a baseball team by hiring co-GM's. Not to mention, interfering too much in baseball decisions and being too slow to make decisions. A team with a 75 million dollar payroll should be a lot better than what we've had the last 9 years. I know I missed a bunch of things too!

Ahhh, beat me to it. I basically said the same thing without the details and totally agree with you. It's not even close to being all about the money.

[RZNJ]

Ahhh, beat me to it. I basically said the same thing without the details and totally agree with you. It's not even close to being all about the money.

Yeah, I read your post and said "Hey! Wait a second, I just said that" LOL

Good post!

[SoBo]

What kills me is he talks so much about how he loves the team and the city and wants to put a winner on the field. And we all know that it's not just a matter of throwing money at FA's. But I don't know about you all, it would be a dream to own the Orioles some day. And if by some miracle I ever did, I would be willing to lose all that I had to put a winner on the field. And for him to say the reason we have a lower payroll is in order to keep ticket prices down. WHO IS HE KIDDING!!! I love it. As much as he has publicly stated that the Rally doesn't bother him at all. It clearly has gotten under his skin. What a great day!

[tstidm1]

I don't care about Angelos anymore. All I care about is that he pays his share of the Ironbirds travel, equipment and the players salaries. I am really starting to think that unless the Orioles are sold, they are going to move to another city in the next decade. The O's have a decade left on the Oriole park lease. Let Angelos go to Baseball heck. Nothing Aparicio and his fans do can change that.

[SoBo]

I don't care about Angelos anymore. All I care about is that he pays his share of the Ironbirds travel, equipment and the players salaries. I am really starting to think that unless the Orioles are sold, they are going to move to another city in the next decade. The O's have a decade left on the Oriole park lease. Let Angelos go to Baseball heck. Nothing Aparicio and his fans do can change that.

As hard as it was for Bud and Co. to move the pathetic Expos from a terrible stadium in Montreal. I find it hard to believe that the Orioles would ever leave. First off, where would they go?

[OrangeBlackBird]

So are you hoping the O's continue to lose just so Nestor doesn't have the chance to say he's the one who made the O's better?

I don't care who takes responsibility for the team getting better -- I just want it to happen.

This was a no lose situation for Nestor. If Angelos starts spending and the O's start winning, Nestor can attribute it to the rally. If it's the same old same old, Nestor can say not enough fans came out for the rally because the team was beyond repair.

I've actually gained a lot of respect for Nestor through this whole thing. His heart is in the right place. For those that say he's in it for the publicity, I don't buy it.

[Ooooooohhhh!!!!]

I can't tell you the last time I had that much fun at a sporting event. Walking to the stadium, chanting and singing, was just the beginning. The atmosphere in the upper deck was electric. You could tell everyone was there for one reason, THEY LOVE THEIR ORIOLES!!! Yes we cheered for the O's. Of course we did. Why wouldn't fans cheer for their team? I wanted the players to know I was behind them and the ownership to know I want a change.

I don't know about anyone else, but I feel my time at the Yard today was well spent. I got to root, root, root for the home team I love. I got to protest an owner that I'm disappointed in. And I stayed around in the flagcourt and saw the O's pull out a late win. When you add in the absolutely amazing weather, I'd say it was a rousing success.

On a side note, I find it hard to believe that there were less than 1,000 people there. We were sitting in 4 1/2 sections of the upper deck and each had to be at least half filled and probably more. I may check a seating chart later and do some math.

[OrangeBlackBird]

I haven't read any player quotes yet, but Miggy definitely noticed us. Three times, he pointed both hands at the group in left field cheering us on. That was pretty cool.

Yes, the rally (protest) is over and it may not make a difference. Still, I'm glad it was done. It's good to see that there is a group of die hard fans that still exist.

PA will not sell - we can only hope he changes his ways.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I can't tell you the last time I had that much fun at a sporting event. Walking to the stadium, chanting and singing, was just the beginning. The atmosphere in the upper deck was electric. You could tell everyone was there for one reason, THEY LOVE THEIR ORIOLES!!! Yes we cheered for the O's. Of course we did. Why wouldn't fans cheer for their team? I wanted the players to know I was behind them and the ownership to know I want a change.

I don't know about anyone else, but I feel my time at the Yard today was well spent. I got to root, root, root for the home team I love. I got to protest an owner that I'm disappointed in. And I stayed around in the flagcourt and saw the O's pull out a late win. When you add in the absolutely amazing weather, I'd say it was a rousing success.

On a side note, I find it hard to believe that there were less than 1,000 people there. We were sitting in 4 1/2 sections of the upper deck and each had to be at least half filled and probably more. I may check a seating chart later and do some math.
One of those sections is somewhere between 400-500 seats, so that number sounds about right.

Just to inform.

[dslats715]

I haven't read any player quotes yet, but Miggy definitely noticed us. Three times, he pointed both hands at the group in left field cheering us on. That was pretty cool.

Yes, the rally (protest) is over and it may not make a difference. Still, I'm glad it was done. It's good to see that there is a group of die hard fans that still exist.

PA will not sell - we can only hope he changes his ways.

Agree with you completely.

[Sports Guy]

A big problem with PA's response is that he seems to assume we just want him to spend more. That would be nice, but really, our main problem is simply how he has run the team. A decently run team would have at least a couple winning seasons in the last 9 with a 70-75M payroll. The team has been run poorly to say the least.


Exactly...This just goes back to how disconnected with the fans he and the organization are.

[Ooooooohhhh!!!!]

One of those sections is somewhere between 400-500 seats, so that number sounds about right.

Just to inform.

Maybe I stand corrected. It was hard to tell just how many people were there from inside the lion's den. I'd bet we still had over a thousand though. It was far short of the numbers predicted, but more than enough to get the point across.


I haven't read any player quotes yet, but Miggy definitely noticed us. Three times, he pointed both hands at the group in left field cheering us on. That was pretty cool.

Even though we all left, I'm sure the players appreciated what we were trying to do and how we went about it.

[FellsPointOsFan]

I was there and agree with many posters that the protest had a big impact.

They made a lot of noise and I thought it was clear that they were not dissing the players, at least until they marched out.

I do wish they had stayed through the game. It was an exciting one, and staying would have demonstrated that the fans weren't protesting the players. The march out was a little distracting during some important moments in the game.

Overall though, it looks like it was a great success.

[mdguy2415]

Fans protest, miss comeback win
Around 1,000 stage walkout opposing team's ownership
By Spencer Fordin / MLB.com

BALTIMORE -- They'll never know what they missed.

A vocal segment of the Camden Yards crowd spent the early innings cheering loudly and the middle innings filing around the stadium Thursday in a protest that nobody on the field understood. Close to 1,000 fans staged a walkout directed at the team's current ownership, missing a late comeback 4-3 win against Detroit, one of the best teams in the American League.

"They missed a good game. They should've stayed," said designated hitter Jay Gibbons, who got the day off Thursday. "I don't really have any comment, but it was hard not laughing, because that was about as loud as our fans have been all year. It would've been nice to have their support up there every game."

The rally, billed as "Free the Birds" by a local radio station, netted fans in six upper-deck sections who cheered vocally before and during the game. Most of them wore black T-shirts that said "Free the Birds" on them and carried placards that had the same slogan on one side and "For Pete's Sake" on the other.

The latter slogan referred to owner Peter Angelos, whose team is concluding its ninth straight losing season. Mike Flanagan, the team's executive vice president of baseball operations, said he welcomed the protest.

"I'd say this: I thought they showed a lot of passion and a lot of exuberance today. Frankly, it reminded me of the '70s and '80s, when I was playing," said Flanagan, a former southpaw pitcher who won 167 games in the big leagues. "They seemed to be into every pitch. In some respects, I wish it would continue for nine innings.

"We're on the same page with them. I think we share that same passion and exuberance. We want to go into the offseason, and I think we're going to have some good news down the road on some issues."

The fans began filing out of the stadium at 5:08 p.m. ET, which was meant to represent two Baltimore icons: No. 5 Brooks Robinson and No. 8 Cal Ripken. As they left, they walked around the lower bowl and caused a commotion, waving signs and screaming variations of the day's theme toward the press box and the TV cameras.

The rally's organizers had hoped to draw between 3,000 and 10,000 protestors, but fell far short of those numbers. Still, in a quiet stadium, they more than made their presence known -- even if their point was obscured.

"It's pretty hard to miss," said starting pitcher Kris Benson. "I think all the players liked it. We don't mind if they come to the field every single day and do that kind of cheering for the team. Everybody enjoyed it, from the time we stepped on the field to the time that they left. Everybody was pretty excited to have some pumped up fans."

"I'm really confused," said Gibbons, summing up the day's events. "If we come back here next year and we're in first place, are those fans not coming to the game? Or are they coming? Are they our fans or not? I just know I'm a fan of a lot of things. As a sports fan, I root on my team no matter what.

"I'm at the game [and] I'm watching on TV whether they're in first place of last. I'm a Raider fan. Put it that way -- I've been there for a long time. I understand people being upset, but there's different ways of doing things. I'm confused who they're upset at -- is it us or is it the owner? I don't know."

Flanagan said the team hoped to make strides in the offseason, and hoped to regain some of the lost fan base. But he also noted that the team's fans can't choose the ownership -- not in Baltimore or anywhere else.

"I don't think people can comment on who should own a club and who shouldn't own a club. What came through loud and clear to me is that they're passionate Orioles fans and they want to win," he said. "We want to win [and] I want to win. I want to be here and have races in September that mean something and have that kind of cheering in the stands again. It's been too long.

"That's part of the reason I wanted to take on this job -- to change and get the culture back to where it was. Winning was the norm and losing was unacceptable. Hopefully, we'll head in that direction this offseason."

Contacted later by The Associated Press, Angelos said, "Whoever joins that protest has no comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team. When you get down to facts, putting together a team that can compete in the AL East means having a payroll between $100-110 million. That money comes from the consumer, and I have chosen to keep ticket prices to a minimum.

"Our payroll is $75 million, and our ticket prices average $22. Some of the teams we compete against charge an average of $45. We're going to have to match the competition. How to do that is a decision I will make in the future."

[BillHagy]

I've seen a good deal made about PA's comments, and a good deal made about Nestor's character. I don't live close enough to Balmer to get his radio program, all I know about him is what I read about him here and as quoted in the paper.

One telling thing in PA's quote in the Sun that has been a little overlooked. I think most of the people on this board have a lot in common with Nestor - we're lifetime O's fans that live and die with their success (and recent lack thereof). I was born into the legends of the Robinson Brothers, the 20-game winners, the pennants - all that stuff, same for Nestor.

According to PA, we're all "unimportant". Not only does he have a grasp on how to own a baseball club, he has no grasp on his market - his clientle: us!!!

I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:2UixbJVtSBy2VM:http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/sevenweblog/Judd_Hirsch.jpg

[NewMarketSean]

LOL, I love the spin involving "what the fans missed" when they walked out of the game. So they missed a meaningless win late in a season that has been over for months. Big deal. When are people ever gonna get it? Yeah, the O's won -- great -- but where are the other 40 wins that we need over the course of a season to put us in the playoffs? Missing one meaningless win to prove a point is well worth the cause.

[SteveA]

LOL, I love the spin involving "what the fans missed" when they walked out of the game.

Yep. And I'm sure many fans like me would have missed the ending anyway...as we would have missed the whole game. I would not have used half a day's vacation time to take off work today to go to a Thursday afternoon late September makeup game with the Tigers if it wasn't for the protest and wanting to make a statement as a fan.

So I was destined never to see that finish anyway.

[weams]

He gets it....

"It's pretty hard to miss," said starting pitcher Kris Benson. "I think all the players liked it. We don't mind if they come to the field every single day and do that kind of cheering for the team. Everybody enjoyed it, from the time we stepped on the field to the time that they left. Everybody was pretty excited to have some pumped up fans."

[Miller192]

I was at the protest and had a lot of fun with it. The numbers were well short of what was expected but we were still loud enough. The highlight for me was when Tejada tipped his hat to us at the start of the game!......that and when I got hit by a foul ball while walking behind home plate.

[NewOrioleWork]

The NY Times speaks up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/22/sports/baseball/22chass.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin

[Avsfan]

So am I really the only one who thought the whole concept was pretty stupid?


and PLEASE BocaBird...give me some more negative rep points, for disagreeing with your stance, because that's cleary what the intentions of those are for. *thumbsup*

[ChipTait]

He gets it....

"It's pretty hard to miss," said starting pitcher Kris Benson. "I think all the players liked it. We don't mind if they come to the field every single day and do that kind of cheering for the team. Everybody enjoyed it, from the time we stepped on the field to the time that they left. Everybody was pretty excited to have some pumped up fans."


but Jay doesn't...


"I'm really confused," said Gibbons, summing up the day's events. "If we come back here next year and we're in first place, are those fans not coming to the game? Or are they coming? Are they our fans or not? I just know I'm a fan of a lot of things. As a sports fan, I root on my team no matter what.

"I'm at the game [and] I'm watching on TV whether they're in first place of last. I'm a Raider fan. Put it that way -- I've been there for a long time. I understand people being upset, but there's different ways of doing things. I'm confused who they're upset at -- is it us or is it the owner? I don't know."

I don't think ol' Gibby is the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[NewMarketSean]

So am I really the only one who thought the whole concept was pretty stupid?

Yes, it would appear that way.

[MCL1021]

Of course the players notice, but they know what the real reason of the rally is for....we are all Oriole fans, but not fans of one Peter Angelos....of course the players aren't going to bad-mouth the man that has the final sign off on the paychecks....but at least they noticed.

[MCL1021]

but Jay doesn't...



I don't think ol' Gibby is the sharpest knife in the drawer.

He knows what the hell was going on today. He's not that dumb.

[NewOrioleWork]

So am I really the only one who thought the whole concept was pretty stupid?


Yup.

Pretty much.

[Moose Milligan]

Ahhhh, looks like sportscenter won't mention it....oh well.

This is great though. Got Angelos to come out and make an ass out of himself. At least Benson and it sounds like Tejada get it. Gibbons proves to be a dunce.

But people took notice. Good.

[BaltimoreTerp]

So am I really the only one who thought the whole concept was pretty stupid?


and PLEASE BocaBird...give me some more negative rep points, for disagreeing with your stance, because that's cleary what the intentions of those are for. *thumbsup*
No, you aren't. I said that for WEEKS.

[mdguy2415]

Well, I was at the game today with a friend, and seeing the fans protest Mr. Aneglos was something to behold. I'd say there were about to 1000-1500 fans involved in the protest and it was one of the few times recently where I felt proud to be an Orioles fan. I didn't walk out of the stadium, but I was in the lower bowl and then moved up to upper left field seats to take it in.

In sitting up with everyone for a few innings, hearing Elrod's, Eddie's, Jon Miller and Davey Johnson's name brought back the times we won and of my youth, high school and college years. I'm only 28, but it brought back some good times and better days.

I moved back down to my seat before 5pm, and rejoined my friend behind home plate. When the fans walked the lower bowl into the high dollar seats, I applaused and gave them my luck. I wanted to join, but I came from work, and also had a friend not wanting to join in the protest.

I personally thought the protest would not be a big deal and would be regulated to local media, but ESPNews, and most of the major news sites have covered this story. For Nestor, it's 'Mission Accomplished', as although he feel short of his intended particpation for the event, he got the players to talk, Flanagan to opine and more importantly got under Peter's skin. I regret not taking it more seriously and joining in, but for those who did, you all did an awesome job and thanks for caring about the Orioles.

For Peter, it may be business, but for a lot of us, baseball and the Baltimore Orioles are an emotional thing, and helps to create new memories, while evoking old ones...

[olehippi]

LOL, I love the spin involving "what the fans missed" when they walked out of the game. So they missed a meaningless win late in a season that has been over for months. Big deal. When are people ever gonna get it? Yeah, the O's won -- great -- but where are the other 40 wins that we need over the course of a season to put us in the playoffs? Missing one meaningless win to prove a point is well worth the cause.

Guess it's a matter of perspective. It might have been a meaningless win for the O's, but it sure wasn't a meaningless loss for Detroit. They could have picked up a full game since Minnesota lost.

[BRobinsonfan]

So am I really the only one who thought the whole concept was pretty stupid?


I'm thinking.... "yes"

[Marvin]

I was sitting out in the OF bleachers for the game, and the bleachers were probably 2/3rds Tigers fans. I was sitting next to a couple of them. They mentioned this was sort of like what Lions fans did a couple years ago to try and get rid of Matt Millen.

[ledzepp8]

So am I really the only one who thought the whole concept was pretty stupid?


and PLEASE BocaBird...give me some more negative rep points, for disagreeing with your stance, because that's cleary what the intentions of those are for. *thumbsup*
You're not the only one. I think wearing the black t-shirts and chanting was sufficient. I don't really get the reasoning of walking out an hour into the game. These people just wasted money on a ticket and gave it to a man they hate. If they really wanted to protest though, then why not just do it outside the stadium every game?

[66-70-83-??]

You're not the only one. I think wearing the black t-shirts and chanting was sufficient. I don't really get the reasoning of walking out an hour into the game. These people just wasted money on a ticket and gave it to a man they hate. If they really wanted to protest though, then why not just do it outside the stadium every game?

The money spent on tickets obviously means more to the people who protested then it does to PA (unless there were some billionaires in the protest crowd :D ).

In a way- walking out gives the protest credibility. They took a stand, took action (as opposed to just whining on an anonymous internet board), and sacrified their time AND money for the cause.

[Moose Milligan]

You're not the only one. I think wearing the black t-shirts and chanting was sufficient. I don't really get the reasoning of walking out an hour into the game. These people just wasted money on a ticket and gave it to a man they hate. If they really wanted to protest though, then why not just do it outside the stadium every game?

Yeah, but you know what? How many tickets have all of those people NOT purchased over the years? And has Angelos gotten the message? Have we heard a peep from him?

No.

We hear something from him in the offseason each year saying how he'll make the team a winner. And it fails. And people still don't buy tickets.

[Trace21230]

Tell you what, whatever remains of the 17,877 is about 75% Tigers fan. That's just pitiful.
Don't know where you were sitting, but in my view you are simply wrong. There were plenty of ORIOLES fans on their feet for Ray's final strikeout, and I saw perhaps ten fans in section 64.

75%? Not even close.

[Trace21230]

I take that estimate back, on the double play that ended the Tigers 8th, the crowd was clearly O's heavy. they were just quiet all day since the team is down 3-2.
This is correct in my view.

[letgoflyers5]

The fact that we have to debate what side the crowd was on is a MAJOR problem

[Trace21230]

Guys I just got back from it.

It was a lot of fun. It was great to finally feel an excited baseball crowd (I'm only 20). I've honestly never experienced that at a ball game. I have Ravens season tickets and love the intensity.

I took some pictures if anyone would want to see my .zip I uploaded let me know. I also just want to say it felt like you were apart of something while u were there. It was loud, and overall clean and respectable.

As me, my friend, and my dad left, 3 guys in suits told us good riddance at the warehouse :/

I thought that was unappropriate.

Anyway let me know if you want the link to the pictures. THANKS!

EDIT*

http://www.weewoo.net/photos/FreeTheBirds_06_dano.zip
^ thats a link to the pictures I took. There are some good ones in there. Let me know what you all think.
Inappropriate? Perhaps it was inappropriate to walk out on the team with guys on 2nd and 3rd down by one run. I happen to agree with those guys in suits.

[dslats715]

Inappropriate? Perhaps it was inappropriate to walk out on the team with guys on 2nd and 3rd down by one run. I happen to agree with those guys in suits.

Well by the time I actually was out of the section the inning was over, but thanks for your opinion.

[Remember'97]

i must say that today was one of the funnest days ive had in a long long time.my girlfriend and i got down to the hard rock around 1pm had a few beers.the march to the yard was awesome to say the least,people who were eating at resturants in the harbor place were cheering and holding up the signs,news choppers followed our every move. for those first 4 innings you couldnt have payed me to take the smile off my face,it was everything i hoped for. the walk out into the lower level with everyone yelling i couldnt even hear myself think,amazing. just an all around great way to spend the day in baltimore being a die hard oriole fan. thank you to everyone who came out today to show a little love. :)

[ledzepp8]

Yeah, but you know what? How many tickets have all of those people NOT purchased over the years? And has Angelos gotten the message? Have we heard a peep from him?

No.

We hear something from him in the offseason each year saying how he'll make the team a winner. And it fails. And people still don't buy tickets.
How would I know? I don't know the people that participated but I'd venture to say that a lot of them have been going to games in the past 9 years. I just don't get the way they went about protesting. What does getting up and walking out at 5:08 do? Like fans have never left during the middle of a game before. They succeeded by being somewhat of a distraction during the first hour of the game and then they effectively killed their protest by just leaving. I understand that was the point, but I just don't see what kind of effect that's supposed to have.

[olehippi]

While I do agree with the concept of the protest for the most part, I think walking out of the game at 5:08 (based upon Brooks' and Cal's uniform #'s....huh?) was ill-conceived, and actually pretty dumb.....kind of like a worker's strike that doesn't shut down the business.

[Moose Milligan]

How would I know? I don't the people that participated but I'd venture to say that a lot of them have been going to games in the past 9 years. I just don't get the way they went about protesting. What does getting up and walking out at 5:08 do? Like fans have never left during the middle of a game before. They succeeded by being somewhat of a distraction during the first hour of the game and then they effectively killed their protest by just leaving. I understand that was the point, but I just don't see what kind of effect that's supposed to have.

IMO, it's symbolic of Angelos' ownership abandoning/alienating the fans.

[Trace21230]

IMO, it's symbolic of Angelos' ownership abandoning/alienating the fans.
Interesting. I feel the walkout at the rally is symbolic of the way the rally attendees have abandoned the Orioles and the fans that actually attend the games.

It would be nice to have those loud fans when Boston and New York are in town, but I guess they're waiting for a winner before they post.

[ledzepp8]

While I do agree with the concept of the protest for the most part, I think walking out of the game at 5:08 (based upon Brooks' and Cal's uniform #'s....huh?) was ill-conceived, and actually pretty dumb.....kind of like a worker's strike that doesn't shut down the business.
Exactly. If a union strikes and pickets but says they're going to only do it for an hour, how much effect do they expect that to have? It just doesn't really make any sense.

[66-70-83-??]

How would I know? I don't the people that participated but I'd venture to say that a lot of them have been going to games in the past 9 years. I just don't get the way they went about protesting. What does getting up and walking out at 5:08 do? Like fans have never left during the middle of a game before. They succeeded by being somewhat of a distraction during the first hour of the game and then they effectively killed their protest by just leaving. I understand that was the point, but I just don't see what kind of effect that's supposed to have.

Only time will tell if it had any impact, be it a little, a whole lot, or none.

But, to do nothing (like most of us) guarantees nothing. ;)

Kudos to those that participated for doing something.

[NewOrioleWork]

Miggy comments in the post (gotta register with the post to see it; or hit up bugmenot.com, whichever. :p )


Shortly after sprinting to the field for pregame warmups, shortstop Miguel Tejada and several players noticed the crowd in the upper deck. Tejada said he had no idea about the protest. While jogging in the outfield, Tejada waved several times to the crowd.

"When we saw the fans like that, it made me proud," Tejada said. "I hope they listen to them and bring whatever is needed to make us a contender."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/21/AR2006092101399.html

[Trace21230]

Miggy comments in the post (gotta register with the post to see it; or hit up bugmenot.com, whichever. :p )



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/21/AR2006092101399.html
Well, at least he didn't give them the finger.

[66-70-83-??]

While I do agree with the concept of the protest for the most part, I think walking out of the game at 5:08 (based upon Brooks' and Cal's uniform #'s....huh?) was ill-conceived, and actually pretty dumb.....kind of like a worker's strike that doesn't shut down the business.

But, you are comparing apples to oranges.

Workers have to go back to their job. They don't want their business to go out of business.

This was customers leaving the theater in the middle of a bad play or a couple leaving the restaurant in the middle of a bad meal.

It is sending a message to the establishment that the service/product is not up to snuff.

I originally thought it sounded goofy.

But, after hearing Flanny and some of the players talk about how loud and boisterous the fans were (like the "good ole days" in the 70's according to Flanny) until they left, and became eerily quiet- I see the wisdom of it.

The message is clear- We (the fans who attended in the 60's/70's/80's) are still here. Change your ways and we will come back.

EDIT: BBTN on ESPN just did a story on it. Kurkijan was sympathetic to the Baltimore fans who protested.

[Moose Milligan]

Interesting. I feel the walkout at the rally is symbolic of the way the rally attendees have abandoned the Orioles and the fans that actually attend the games.

It would be nice to have those loud fans when Boston and New York are in town, but I guess they're waiting for a winner before they post.

It's a simple concept. Put a winner on the field, the fans come out. Maybe aside from the Cubs, it's pretty true for every franchise.

[davearm]

Walking out in the middle of the game was absolutely brilliant!

The stadium went from loud and excited to dead and empty.

What a perfect way to illustrate the difference between what the atmosphere at OPACY could/should be all the time, and what it acutally is most of the time, thanks to Angelos.

[Crazysilver03]

I was amazed.

They just ran a spot on Baseball Tonight about the protest.

It was amazing seeing this on BBTN.

[NewOrioleWork]

I was amazed.

They just ran a spot on Baseball Tonight about the protest.

It was amazing seeing this on BBTN.

Well, what'd they say?

[66-70-83-??]

Only time will tell if it had any impact, be it a little, a whole lot, or none.

But, to do nothing (like most of us) guarantees nothing. ;)

Kudos to those that participated for doing something.

LOL.

This above post got me NEGATIVE reps from trace21230.:confused:

It wasn't even a response to one of his/her posts. Obviously, you don't understand the rep pts concept if that fits your standard for "negative".

And I don't understand the bizarre comments that went along with the neg rep.


First red. Way to go folks who go once every five years! Forget about everyone who's there through thick and thin.

Care to explain what the heck this comment is about trace? And who only goes once every five years ?

[Crazysilver03]

Well, what'd they say?

Tim Kurkijan was just talking about how 1000 people showed up to show there hatred for PA.

Saying, attendance is down and interest in down in Baltimore and that it could be really bad for the Orioles in the future.

Said it was impressive to get 1000 people together. Karl agreed with him.

In general, made national media and the host agreed with it. Good Stuff.

[john]

Tim Kurkijan was just talking about how 1000 people showed up to show there hatred for PA.

Saying, attendance is down and interest in down in Baltimore and that it could be really bad for the Orioles in the future.

Said it was impressive to get 1000 people together. Karl agreed with him.

In general, made national media and the host agreed with it. Good Stuff.

The fact that the protest was mentioned on ESPN w/video evidence of fans walking out of the ballpark would indicate that it was successful at some level. I think it may have had more impact if they had chosen a different game to do it. There was no local television for this game. Footage seen on ESPN was from Oriole Productions. It was a make up game due to a rainout. On a weekday afternoon w/school already started and the game in September, there didn't figure to be a large crowd at this game anyway. Perhaps it would have a bigger impact if done at another time, like when the Yankees or Red Sox are in town. But to see 1000 or so people united for any cause is pretty impressive, so I commend those who cared enough to go through with it.

[rolliefingers]

Interesting. I feel the walkout at the rally is symbolic of the way the rally attendees have abandoned the Orioles and the fans that actually attend the games.

It would be nice to have those loud fans when Boston and New York are in town, but I guess they're waiting for a winner before they post.I agree with this in a way. When they were leading cheers in the first part of the game, I was like, "Um, guys? Why can't we do this more often than just today?!" Why does nobody care usually, and all of a sudden there are 1,000 screaming fans for a meaningless (to us) game in late September?

But it just occurred to me what the real point of the walkout was. And I don't think Nestor intended it this way; I think the walkout was for publicity for the protest, which is fine. But Davearm brings up a great point: Having 1,000 screaming fans for a few innings and then SILENCE really shows what this team is missing.

The message is clear: put a good team on the field, and screaming fans are what you'll get in return. In retrospect, that's brilliant. And I don't think that was a premeditated consequence.

[Trace21230]

LOL.

This above post got me NEGATIVE reps from trace21230.:confused:

It wasn't even a response to one of his/her posts. Obviously, you don't understand the rep pts concept if that fits your standard for "negative".

And I don't understand the bizarre comments that went along with the neg rep.



Care to explain what the heck this comment is about trace? And who only goes once every five years ?
I'll explain it. You're praising the fans that attended the protest. What about those fans that are there constantly trying to defend the Yard from hordes of Yankee and Sox fans?

It takes a protest for you to appreciate Os fans? That's quite a slap to the people that have stood by the team through 9 years of losing. You don't like the red, tough. In my view your comment was an insult to Os fans that have been supporting the team year in and year out.

Give me a red brick back. I don't mind and I won't post it and throw a temper tantrum.

[dslats715]

Negative rep points.

I don't think I've ever gotten positive or negative rep points :x

[Trace21230]

I agree with this in a way. When they were leading cheers in the first part of the game, I was like, "Um, guys? Why can't we do this more often than just today?!" Why does nobody care usually, and all of a sudden there are 1,000 screaming fans for a meaningless (to us) game in late September?

But it just occurred to me what the real point of the walkout was. And I don't think Nestor intended it this way; I think the walkout was for publicity for the protest, which is fine. But Davearm brings up a great point: Having 1,000 screaming fans for a few innings and then SILENCE really shows what this team is missing.

The message is clear: put a good team on the field, and screaming fans are what you'll get in return. In retrospect, that's brilliant. And I don't think that was a premeditated consequence.
Well, I wonder how much they would be screaming at a normal game. Let's face it, this was an event and the participants simply went to make their point. The whole point of it was to generate publicity for their cause, not really to cheer the Orioles on to a win. If that were the case, they wouldn't have walked out at 5:08.

So, we have a group of disgruntled people who were out to send a message, which they did. More impressive to me was the noise generated when Ray pitched a scoreless 9th. It probably wasn't as loud, but it was certainly more genuine than the contrived pro-Orioles chants generated by the protestors before they walked out on the team in the 4th inning.

[rolliefingers]

Well, I wonder how much they would be screaming at a normal game. Let's face it, this was an event and the participants simply went to make their point. The whole point of it was to generate publicity for their cause, not really to cheer the Orioles on to a win. If that were the case, they wouldn't have walked out at 5:08.

So, we have a group of disgruntled people who were out to send a message, which they did. More impressive to me was the noise generated when Ray pitched a scoreless 9th. It probably wasn't as loud, but it was certainly more genuine than the contrived pro-Orioles chants generated by the protestors before they walked out on the team in the 4th inning.I think we're agreeing here. Obviously the cheering was contrived, and I think that was kind of overkill. But OTOH, the real-life - not theoretical - result was pretty brilliant.

It was like training a dog to sit by giving him a little piece of steak or something for sitting on command. "OK, you want more of this? Then do what daddy says, OK?" Granted, the cheering wasn't in direct relation to on-field happenings, but I think you see my point.

[Trace21230]

I think we're agreeing here. Obviously the cheering was contrived, and I think that was kind of overkill. But OTOH, the real-life - not theoretical - result was pretty brilliant.

It was like training a dog to sit by giving him a little piece of steak or something for sitting on command. "OK, you want more of this? Then do what daddy says, OK?" Granted, the cheering wasn't in direct relation to on-field happenings, but I think you see my point.
I do see your point. One of the things that ran through my mind was, "gee, this would be nice to hear on a regular basis."

I am torn about the rally attendees. On the one hand, I recognize that they care about the Orioles otherwise they wouldn't have been there. On the other hand, I feel they have abandoned the people that still show up.

Hopefully, the Orioles start winning again and there is no need for any mixed emotions because everyone will be happy and at the stadium cheering for the Orioles.

[rolliefingers]

I do see your point. One of the things that ran through my mind was, "gee, this would be nice to hear on a regular basis."

I am torn about the rally attendees. On the one hand, I recognize that they care about the Orioles otherwise they wouldn't have been there. On the other hand, I feel they have abandoned the people that still show up.

Hopefully, the Orioles start winning again and there is no need for any mixed emotions because everyone will be happy and at the stadium cheering for the Orioles.Yeah, that does stick in my craw a bit. I've been living and dying with this team since I was 7 years old. Nestor has very publicly trashed the team, particularly Angelos, for years.

I've still been showing up.

I've still been that one guy trying to get a rhythmic cheer going when an Orioles pitcher has 2 strikes on a hitter. Nobody gives a crap until the scoreboard tells them to effing cheer.

I've still been sitting there at MFY games, being practically heckled out of my own stadium, my hands trembling because I was so mad. Where the F were those 1,000 people then, huh?

But as little moral authority as many of those people have - particularly Nestor - I still can't deny that they're right.

What's the one common denominator in all this losing?

[Cokeman]

I'll explain it. You're praising the fans that attended the protest. What about those fans that are there constantly trying to defend the Yard from hordes of Yankee and Sox fans?

It takes a protest for you to appreciate Os fans? That's quite a slap to the people that have stood by the team through 9 years of losing. You don't like the red, tough. In my view your comment was an insult to Os fans that have been supporting the team year in and year out.

Give me a red brick back. I don't mind and I won't post it and throw a temper tantrum.

I don't have a dog in this race, but I gotta say...that's pretty lame reasoning for giving someone negative reps.

[caljr]

Flanagan's take to the protest today.....
http://midatlantic.comcastsportsnet.com/multimedia.asp

[Trace21230]

I don't have a dog in this race, but I gotta say...that's pretty lame reasoning for giving someone negative reps.
Noted. I was kind enough to keep quiet whenever I read lame reasoning of yours, which has been more than once.

I won't next time. :)

[dslats715]

This right here says it enough for me:


"When we saw the fans like that, it made me proud," Tejada said. "I hope they listen to them and bring whatever is needed to make us a contender."

[Trace21230]

Yeah, that does stick in my craw a bit. I've been living and dying with this team since I was 7 years old. Nestor has very publicly trashed the team, particularly Angelos, for years.

I've still been showing up.

I've still been that one guy trying to get a rhythmic cheer going when an Orioles pitcher has 2 strikes on a hitter. Nobody gives a crap until the scoreboard tells them to effing cheer.

I've still been sitting there at MFY games, being practically heckled out of my own stadium, my hands trembling because I was so mad. Where the F were those 1,000 people then, huh?

But as little moral authority as many of those people have - particularly Nestor - I still can't deny that they're right.

What's the one common denominator in all this losing?
Bottom line is the losing needs to stop. If this rally accomplished nothing else, I hope it did send a message to Angelos loud and clear. But I know better--Angelos doesn't care what 1 fan or 1000 fans think.

We're screwed. :(

[dslats715]

Bottom line is the losing needs to stop. If this rally accomplished nothing else, I hope it did send a message to Angelos loud and clear. But I know better--Angelos doesn't care what 1 fan or 1000 fans think.

We're screwed. :(

I think it will work in some way.

Angelos's response showed he was flustered. Even Flanagan seemed flustered, and changed his tune by after the game.

Players agree too.

"When we saw the fans like that, it made me proud," Tejada said. "I hope they listen to them and bring whatever is needed to make us a contender."

[66-70-83-??]

I'll explain it. You're praising the fans that attended the protest. What about those fans that are there constantly trying to defend the Yard from hordes of Yankee and Sox fans?

It takes a protest for you to appreciate Os fans? That's quite a slap to the people that have stood by the team through 9 years of losing. You don't like the red, tough. In my view your comment was an insult to Os fans that have been supporting the team year in and year out.

Give me a red brick back. I don't mind and I won't post it and throw a temper tantrum.

Yankee and RedSox fans ? WTF ? :confused: That had nothing to do with my original post. I will remind you of my comments that "OFFENDED" you, even though they were directed to someone else:


Only time will tell if it had any impact, be it a little, a whole lot, or none.

But, to do nothing (like most of us) guarantees nothing.

Kudos to those that participated for doing something.

Where did I "insult" fans that went to OPACY on games vs NY and Bos ?
Where did I even reference them ? Whew ! :confused:

FWIW, I have stood by this team since the 60's.

Do you think I would be HERE if I didn't care about the Orioles ?

But, I do agree that this proud franchise has been run into the ground by PA.
So, YES I give KUDOS to those who decided to attempt to do something about it. They care too, or else they wouldnt have wasted their time and money. Perhaps they care MORE. They got off their duffs and did something in an effort to effect positive change.

About the protesters: I do not know the 1000+ people involved in the protest. Therefore I can't comment (and won't jump to off the wall conclusions like you did about them and me) on who they are or how many games they have gone too. I would bet that it is much more than the 1 game every 5 years that you claimed. They may even go to more games than you.

[Cokeman]

Noted. I was kind enough to keep quiet whenever I read lame reasoning of yours, which has been more than once.

I won't next time. :)

Have at it...I don't have a problem with someone disagreeing with me. Any time you think my reasoning or opinion is lame, speak up...everybody else does.

I just feel giving someone negative reps for the reason you did is pretty darn lame...you could have posted the same thing right here without doling out the neg reps. If you feel so strongly that it was a slap in the face to O's fans that regularly attend games and defend the O's turf against Yankees/Red Sox fans, put it out here for everyone to see that you felt insulted. You may actually find others support your position.

[section18]

I went to the game today to see how many people would show up and to observe fans and player reactions. I was not disappointed. Everyone seemed to be into the game more with all of the "Free the Birds" cheers coming from the upper deck. It was like the old days at Memorial Stadium with Wild Bill leading cheers in the upper deck.

The count of people supporting the rally is more than what has been reported. I arrived at the game about five minutes before game time and I park at a Harbor Place garage. On my walk to Oriole park I passed fans who were headed away from the park towards Harbor Place wearing Free the Birds t-shirts that must not have bought tickets for the game. I also observed people outside and near the park with the FTB shirts. I ended up sitting on the first base side of the park so I could watch the game and check on the left field upper deck. There were fans in my area and fans walking around throughout the early innings in different sections with FTB shirts and also down in the concession area. I think there were about 1500-1700 supporters of the rally in and around the park today.

If this game had been at 6 P.M. or the normal 7 P.M. weekday time there would have been a lot more people participating at the rally. I know plenty of friends of mine said by the time they would have gotten out of work and driven into the city it would have been after 5:30 or 6 until they would have arrived and the rally would have been over. I think it was a great turnout.

I think the players were into the whole thing and enjoyed it. The supporters of the rally that got up at 5:08 and came down to the lower level and walked around the lower level concourse saying Free the Birds made my day. It made a statement and I think the players were glad it happened. I personally don't think it will hurt us in signing free agents and players coming in future trades can't refuse to come here unless they choose to retire which is not likely and I think the days of getting players over 35 are coming to an end.

The best news for the fans is the D.C. mess that had been staring the owner in the face for these dreadful nine losing seasons is over. We all know that is the real reason the team has been allowed to fall apart. Lower attendance meant no team in D.C.....right? Wrong! MLB gave them a team anyhow and the owner negotiated a shrewd deal with MLB and now he has MASN TV which will only make our billionaire owner richer . I think the front office knows more than they are telling us and now that the owner has got the legal problems out of the way he is ready to start spending which he alludes to in a recent newspaper article. He keeps talking about his $75 million dollar payroll but this years payroll will shrink to about $50 mill with the end of contracts for several players with the team and recently traded from the team. If he wants to go to a $100-$110 million payroll I think Duquettes recent comments that there could be as many as 10 new players on the team next year coming in trades, as free agents and from the minor league system is correct.

Nestor did what others thought about and talked about but for their own personal reasons refused to do.....until today.

Thank you Nestor.

[geschinger]

New York Times: (with a great picture... Abestos has poisoned my team. :)
Fans Lament Decline and Fall of the Orioles (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/22/sports/baseball/22chass.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=login&ref=sports&adxnnlx=1158905766-zfdYIJbFcJOsftp0qcTCfw)

[Mad Mark]

I've still been that one guy trying to get a rhythmic cheer going when an Orioles pitcher has 2 strikes on a hitter. Nobody gives a crap until the scoreboard tells them to effing cheer.

I've still been sitting there at MFY games, being practically heckled out of my own stadium, my hands trembling because I was so mad. Where the F were those 1,000 people then, huh?

THAT is why I'd rather come up for a DEVIL RAYS game than a Yankee$ game.
The question of what to do about the Yankee$ games has been a big one for my ticket group for several years now. Do we drag ourselves up to the stadium, "defend our turf" from the Yankee$ drunken, boorish fans, and be subjected to four-hours + of "Yankee$ effin baseball?" Or do we sell the tickets (at a considerable markup) to those same fans, stay home and do something with our time that won't leave us shaking with rage and despair when it's done? It ain't a hard question to answer, guys...
Winning will solve the problem of attendance. (And with it, the problem of high availability of seats for Yankee$ and Red $ox fans. I'm not sure anything, at this point, is going to solve the problem of "fans" who go to a game purely to get hammered on overpriced beer, though.

[RZNJ]

Exactly. If a union strikes and pickets but says they're going to only do it for an hour, how much effect do they expect that to have? It just doesn't really make any sense.


I think a better analogy is if the workers showed up for work and all walked out at the same time. The players might be the workers but the fans pay their salaries, and more importantly, pay Angelos. Look at the attention they've received. You think it would have been more dramatic to just sit through the whole game?

[Mad Mark]

A note to the "Free the Birds" protesters: in this "what have you done for me lately" world, yesterday--while thrilling--will mean nothing by next week. The ball remains in your court. Your opponent remains formidable. What plan for sustained action/protest do you have?

[RZNJ]

BTW, Flanagan really seems to have his finger on the pulse of the team. The only comments I saw from players (Tejada & Roberts) seemed to show that they were impressed by those fans, Tejada in particular. Guess it didn't demoralize the players too much. :rolleyes:

[NewOrioleWork]

More press, The Sun gets involved, and Roberts comments.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.protest22sep22,0,3080478.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines


Angelos, an attorney who bought the club in 1993, said the protesters may have been "misguided" and suggested some critics don't understand the cost and complexities of owning a ballclub.

"I wasn't directing that [remark] at the participants but at the instigator, who has been ranting and raving very personally at me," the owner said. He said he was "shocked" that Sun columnist Rick Maese had written a piece Wednesday in which he said the protest "could ultimately serve as a benchmark" for how fans feel.

"For [Maese] to incite this fool, this demagogue, I was shocked to see that ... from a respectable newspaper," Angelos said.


Um, is he confusing Steele with Maese? Maese specifically said (in his comments section, anyway) that he was avoiding advocating one side or not. Steele was the dude who was wondering where fireangelos.com is.



"I don't think for the most part, people can comment on who should own a club or who shouldn't own a club," Flanagan said. "What came through loud and clear to me is that they are passionate Orioles fans. They want to win. We want to win. I want to be here and have races in September that mean something and have that kind of cheering in the stands again. It's been too long."

Players noticed the demonstrators' enthusiasm, too.

"I think anytime your fans show that they care, that's good," second baseman Brian Roberts said. "They showed they care about our organization, they care about the team, they care about winning. Now, what they were trying to accomplish, I have no idea."

Hehehe, the "Sell the Team" chants weren't a clue, BRob? :p :p

--Alexander

[NewOrioleWork]

Baltimore's biggest Schmuck takes a stand. This one'll REALLY po Petey.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.schmuck22sep22,0,6290281.column?coll=bal-sports-columnists




...

It was Thomas Jefferson who said "a little revolution now and then is a good thing," and he didn't have to suffer through nine straight losing seasons. Aparicio's Army tried to do what 1 1/2 million empty seats couldn't - convince Angelos that he lacks the administrative acumen to run a successful baseball franchise.

Good luck with that. Angelos has watched his attendance fall from a high of 3.71 million in 1997 to about 2.14 million when the Orioles wrap up their final home series of the year against the Minnesota Twins on Sunday. If you want to put that in monetary terms, just the ticket revenue from those 1.6 million phantom fans would be about $35 million a year.

So, if something like $175 million in unrealized gate revenue over the past five years (which is about the price that this ownership originally paid for the team) didn't persuade Angelos to punt, what hope do 1,000 frustrated fans who actually paid their way into the stadium have to make their point?

"We love the O's," Chris Drazdys of Catonsville said. "We just want them to be better."

Angelos remains unrepentant, if his comments to the Associated Press were any indication.

"Whoever joins that protest has no comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team," Angelos told the AP from his law office yesterday. "When you get down to facts, putting together a team that can compete in the AL East means having a payroll between $100 million and $110 million. That money comes from the consumer, and I have chosen to keep ticket prices to a minimum."

In other words, that milk in the refrigerator may be really sour, but it didn't cost very much, so drink it and shut up.

"Our payroll is $75 million, and our ticket prices average $22. Some of the teams we compete against charge an average of $45," Angelos added. "We're going to have to match the competition. How to do that is a decision I will make in the future."

If you're trying figure out what that means, join the club. The Mid-Atlantic Sports Network is up and running, which is supposed to infuse the team with enough revenue to pump up the payroll to a point where the Orioles can compete with the Yankees and Red Sox. Orioles attorney Alan Rifkin said after the final snags were worked out with Comcast that the impact on the team would be "immediate."

Angelos, however, sent a mixed message in a recent interview in the sports weekly Press Box when he talked about boosting the payroll, but described the $14.5 million per year contract extension recently signed by Houston Astros pitcher Roy Oswalt as "lunacy."

So, which is it? Are the Orioles going to go after top players in the free-agent market or are they going to stop short of paying top dollar to keep the payroll reasonable?

It is that kind of ownership ambivalence that sent Nestor's Naysayers out into the street yesterday. They no longer believe anything that Angelos says and they want an owner who cares about winning as much as they do.

...

[rolliefingers]

Baltimore's biggest Schmuck takes a stand. This one'll REALLY po Petey.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.schmuck22sep22,0,6290281.column?coll=bal-sports-columnistsI have been irritated at the Orioles' press corps for not criticizing Angelos enough.

Looks like this protest might have proven once and for all whose side they're on. Bravo.

[NewOrioleWork]

Gomez gets it.


“I can understand that. I’d be frustrated, too, if I was a fan,” Orioles infielder Chris Gomez said before the game.

“We're definitely trying in [this clubhouse], but I can definitely understand their frustration,” Gomez said. “It's a proud organization, and they expect better. And we as players expect better.”

...

“As players, it's not going to affect us at all,” Gomez said. “They have their opinions and they’re entitled to them.”

Hopefully he can give Gibbons a heads up as to what the protest was about. :rolleyes:

Link: http://www.examiner.com/a-303440~Frustrated_fans_protest_O_s_ownership.html

[66-70-83-??]

BTW, i just saw an usher behind home plate move two guys out of fourth row empty seats. These apparent "cheaters" actually had tickets for the tenth row in the same section. Just Wow!!!

:eek: :mad: :confused:

This little tidbit speaks VOLUMES about what is wrong with the Orioles.

This is another example that shows the Orioles are owned by a lawyer who is used to forcing people to fork over money (through litigation), as opposed to being a businessman and having to "earn" it through good old fashioned customer service.

He (PA) just doesn't get it. Reminds me of a poster I saw in a office setting:
The beatings will continue until morale improves. That is PA's business management credo, apparently.:rolleyes:

The ushers should be instructed to do the opposite. They should seek out fans (especially kids) and suggest "hey junior, would you like to sit down front, closer to the Orioles". Especially considering that the place is always empty.

The whole atmosphere, or "aura" in the place in unfriendly. From the ushers being seat police, to the unfreindly, uncaring concession people- I just don't feel "welcome" in the place. I feel like an "intruder" by the way I am treated by most of the people there. There are exceptions, of course, but most workers in the place have awful morale and attitude problems.

On the other hand, I do feel welcome when I attend games at M&T or Ripken stadium.

[mdguy2415]

Yeah, the saw the usher who did that - Lamont is his hame in Section 40. This was around the 8th inning, and realize 70% the section was empty and they moved from like the 10th to 3rd or 4th row. The usher swooshed down and told him to move back up.

Asinine.

However, I have noticed a lot of rude attitudes from all the ushers around the park, with the exception of a few. Unless you are a regular, they know you personally, or you get them on a good day, they usually rarely cut anyone slack.

It's one thing to do that to fans in the 3rd inning, but in the 8th inning - good lord.

It seems to be the closer to home plate you get, the worse the ushers are...

[NewMarketSean]

Walking out in the middle of the game was absolutely brilliant!

The stadium went from loud and excited to dead and empty.

What a perfect way to illustrate the difference between what the atmosphere at OPACY could/should be all the time, and what it acutally is most of the time, thanks to Angelos.


Anyone who didn't understand that this was the point of walking out, just doesn't get it.

[Fan4Life]

"Whoever joins that protest has no comprehension of what it costs to run a baseball team," Angelos told the AP from his law office yesterday. "When you get down to facts, putting together a team that can compete in the AL East means having a payroll between $100 million and $110 million. That money comes from the consumer, and I have chosen to keep ticket prices to a minimum."


In other words, that milk in the refrigerator may be really sour, but it didn't cost very much, so drink it and shut up.

This is priceless and about as accurate as a metaphor can be.

[section34]

Anyone who didn't understand that this was the point of walking out, just doesn't get it.
I don't necessarily agree with the protest but it did accomplish at least 1 very significant thing and you're right: players, fans, and mgt heard, saw, and felt what it once was like inside opacy and memorial. Everyone's commenting on how great it was to hear fans cheering loudly for the O's and to a man, we all want that again. I think this was a shot in the arm to let us all know that we have to get the Yard rockin again.

Thanks to the protestors for being so vocal.

[Baroquen131]

I'm most impressed with how it apparently seemed to irk Angelos. He has been seemingly oblivious to the declining attendance and the discontent of the fans, but he sure seemed to notice yesterday. And I wasn't sure that was going to happen.

I was also impressed with the media coverage. Not only did all the major outlets do stories, but the protesters looked impressive/enthusiastic and looked like they cared about the team.

I'm glad the players (for the most part) seemed to recognize the intent of the rally as against the owner and not attacking the players.

I -really- enjoyed Schmuck's column today. I almost posted a link to it myself but didn't have a chance. I agree with what he said - very much so.

It would be really interesting if there was a "next step" in this process. Rather than letting the enegy and acknowledgement of the event fade away.

[mojmann]

The protest made the front page of the sports section of the Birmingham News in Alabama this morning.

Yep, this is getting national play.

[mdguy2415]

I think this is the best of the articles not done locally...

************************************************

On Baseball
Fans Lament Decline and Fall of the Orioles

By MURRAY CHASS
Published: September 22, 2006

Some day the Baltimore Orioles will be remembered as the American League version of the Cincinnati Reds. How’s that?

The Reds were the last team to win the National League West championship before the Atlanta Braves began their unparalleled run of 14 consecutive division titles. The Orioles were the last team to win the American League East title before the Yankees began their ongoing streak of nine straight first-place finishes.

The Orioles in first place? The memory fades, it was so long ago.

The Orioles have faded, too. Since they finished first in 1997, their standing has fallen, their payroll has dropped and their attendance has plummeted. Their fans, who used to cram Camden Yards, long for the good old days, and many of them took to the streets around the park yesterday to deliver their message to Peter Angelos, the owner.

“There are so many complaints,” said Nestor Aparicio, organizer of the protest and owner of the sports talk-radio station WNST. “The community feels helpless, betrayed. We’re on 14 hours a day, and the other day I said, ‘Let’s talk about last night’s Orioles game,’ and we didn’t get a single phone call.”

When Angelos spoke on the telephone yesterday, at about the time the protesters were gathering at bars on two sides of Camden Yards, he did not seem fazed by the demonstration. He rejected its legitimacy, saying, without mentioning his name, that Aparicio was running it to enhance his talk show.

“This fellow, who has been going on for a number of years in a thoroughly irresponsible way, has a call-in show, I think,” Angelos said.

Aparicio, who said he is a distant cousin of the Orioles Hall of Famer Luis Aparicio, said, “This is not a publicity stunt for the radio station.”

Stunt or not, The Associated Press reported that nearly 1,000 fans walked out of the park en masse during the fourth inning of yesterday’s game against Detroit. Aparicio estimated the number at 2,500.

In better days, at the start of the Camden Yards era, the Orioles drew more than 3 million fans for nine full seasons in a row, reaching 3.7 million in the 1997 championship season. In the last four years of that economically robust period, the Orioles finished in fourth place, and by the fourth fourth-place finish, attendance was barely above 3 million.

This season the attendance is headed for the lowest total (less than 2.2 million) since 1988, the season in which the Orioles lost their first 21 games. The Orioles won the A.L. East title in 1997 with a $64 million payroll, second in the major leagues to the Yankees’ $67 million. The Orioles’ payroll remained second to the Yankees the next two years, but then began plummeting — in successive seasons to 5th, 12th, 14th, 15th and 21st in 2004.

They began this season with a $72 million payroll, according to commissioner’s office compilations, up from $51 million in 2004.

“We’re doing the best we can with a $75 million payroll,” Angelos said. “It’s tough to deal with teams that have double the payroll or triple. We expect to be increasing that payroll to compete.”

How much of an increase?

“In order to be competitive in the American League East,” the owner said, “you have to spend $100 million at a minimum, unless you push the right buttons and have the insight that Billy Beane and Terry Ryan have.”

Angelos, who doesn’t care for the title general manager, referred to the general managers of the Oakland Athletics and the Minnesota Twins, who are among the best in the business, putting together low-payroll teams that perennially contend.

General managers have not lasted long during Angelos’s 13-year ownership. He has either fired them or alienated them. Most often he has made their lives difficult by imposing a stifling oversight.

His reputation is such that he is even reported to do things he may not be responsible for. One person with knowledge of a recent deal said Angelos prevented a July 30 trade that would have sent shortstop Miguel Tejada to Houston for a package of players, including pitcher Roy Oswalt, whom they were then supposed to send elsewhere, most likely the Mets.

Angelos said yesterday the Orioles didn’t want to trade Tejada for a player, Oswalt, who could be a free agent after this season, but he didn’t acknowledge killing the trade. The general manager of another team said it was not Angelos’s move that killed the deal.

But Angelos does have a reputation among agents for turning off free agents. Player agents, who did not want to be identified so they wouldn’t hurt future negotiations, said Angelos’s low-ball offers annoy players, who then look for jobs elsewhere. Those same agents said that with the owner looking over their shoulders, his general managers are unable to pursue free agents aggressively.

Angelos also doesn’t like to pay draft choices large bonuses, forcing the Orioles to select lower-rated, less expensive amateurs.

Like many other teams, the Orioles planned to build a program in the Dominican Republic, but it has been on hold for years because Angelos has been reluctant to spend the necessary funds.

Speaking generally of player signings or moves, Angelos said: “I don’t stop anything. We have discussions, what it’s going to cost, what it’s going to look like and what the prospects are for it to be a successful trade. If the consensus is there, we’ll do it.”

One positive development has been the absence of Angelos’s sons, John and Lou, from the team’s operation. Earlier in Angelos’s ownership, the sons, especially John, were involved and not productively.

And Angelos sees signs of improvement, most notably with the team’s young pitchers, headed by Erik Bedard. “I think we have the makings of a first-class pitching staff,” he said. “We have four young pitchers who are doing well. If their talent and commitment hold true, I think in a year or two they’ll be one of the best pitching staffs in the American League.”

The fans can’t wait.

[Moose Milligan]

The protest made the front page of the sports section of the Birmingham News in Alabama this morning.

Yep, this is getting national play.

Thats awesome!!

[Witchy Chick]

I do see your point. One of the things that ran through my mind was, "gee, this would be nice to hear on a regular basis."

I am torn about the rally attendees. On the one hand, I recognize that they care about the Orioles otherwise they wouldn't have been there. On the other hand, I feel they have abandoned the people that still show up.

As one of the people who "still show up" (at least for one more game; season tickets are not on my horizon for the 2007 season), I have absolutely no problem with any of the protestors, with the organizer, or with anyone who agrees with the protestors and the protest concept.

Do you honestly think I would be upset with anyone who might actually foster some regime change in this pitiful organization? No. I want to see a winner -- plain and simple.

This morning, I was thinking about Angelos' words of having to have a $100-$110 million payroll to compete in the AL East. Aside from the fact that the AL East is no longer the be-all, end-all powerhouse that it used to be (the AL Central now is) -- the allusion to the Red Sox and Yankees goes well beyond payroll. Aside from big-a$$ payrolls, what else do the Yankees and Boston have? They have an organization that knows how to run itself. They have owners that are largely "hands off" (Steinbrenner has allegedly curtailed (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5989090?FSO1&ATT=HMA) his involvement with the team). The owners hire GMs who have autonomy to make deals decisively, and the owners stay out of their way. The GMs hire the field managers, and.......here's a novel concept......allow the field managers to hire their own coaching staff. Do you think Terry Francona or Joe Torre have been forced to "inherit" members of their coaching staff?

As much as I hate the Red Sox and Yankees, they know how to run an organization. And it's not just the Yankees and Red Sox either. Look at other successful teams -- ones with lower payrolls. Minnesota, Oakland, Cleveland. I'd have to do some research, but I don't think Gardenhire/Macha/Wedge had to inherit coaching staff. I don't think Ryan/Beane/Shapiro have to clear every solitary player move through their owners.



Gomez gets it.

Hopefully he can give Gibbons a heads up as to what the protest was about. :rolleyes:

Link: http://www.examiner.com/a-303440~Frustrated_fans_protest_O_s_ownership.html

Gomez is my new favorite Oriole. :D What he said is precisely what Angelos should have said.


Witchy

[tennOsfan]

This is a very interesting thread. Having finally worked my way through it, I will say I was one of the people yesterday who was declaring this protest a bad idea. Having read accounts of it and seeing the TV footage, perhaps I was wrong. I like the fact that the protestors were cheering the team while they were there, and there's no doubt every one of them care as much about the franchise as do I.

I chuckled at the orioles.com story that said the protestors didn't know what they had missed - a late win in September when we're 19 games under .500. Wow -- what an empty spot in those fans' lives. I'm pretty sure those fans, and myself and almost all of us, know exactly what we're missing -- THE PLAYOFFS OR AT LEAST A REASON TO LOOK AT THE STANDINGS NOW AND THEN. We're missing that atmosphere I witnessed the first time I attended a game at Memorial Stadium in 1989 -- a full house of baseball fans who were cheering the Orioles and took no backseat to any franchise's fans.

Whether the protest was the right thing to do or not, at least it generated a little fuss in September over what the fans expect out of this ball team. Kudos to Tejada for recognizing that those fans want the same thing he wants. And it's not just baseball in October that we all want -- it's pride in our team.

[mdguy2415]

Well, between other fans and friends I talk to, payroll is not so much the issue. If the payroll was an issue, then how do the Twins, A's, compete with the higher-revenue teams year after year. My bigger gripe with everything has to be with the utter incompetence of the organization and the way it has been run into the ground. Pete may or may care, but all in all, he's captain of the ship and he's failed. His response to the protest has made me more convinced he can't see the forest from the trees.

Why we get players on the downturn on their careers, for example, I have no clue. We can either compete or rebuild, but we can't do both. We have let players who embodied the Oriole Way and the way he treated Davey and John was disgusting...

I think in the beginning, Pete had noble goals and did want to win, by evidence of in the 90's, our payroll was higher of the Yankees & Red Sox. However, after some real bad signings and he being burned in free agent market, Pete held the purse strings and took more of an active role in the player deals.

Fine. It's his money, but we are the customers. We had 40K per night until 3 years ago, then apathy set in.

If nothing at all changes, and I mean soon, we will become another Pittsburgh - a great sports town, with a team that's horrible, greatly neglected and leaves the fans dreaming of yesteryear. I can slam the Red Sox and Yankees all day, but they know how to run a team, from player development to the business aspect (which has made them what they are today - i.e., the Yankees with the YES network).

More importantly, whether the fans are on the bandwagon or not, they care and they will spend for a good product. Pete can whine about the Nationals and how it affected his fan base -- but, it's the product that matters and right now, it stinks.

The Orioles had a chance to keep the good times going, but Pete blew it.

[frankpembleton]

Just an observation I have made...

I have checked a bunch of other team's message boards this morning to get a feel for what other fans are thinking about how this protest went down.

This protest is a huge discussion on almost all of the message boards I went on. It really is the talk of baseball right now. Almost everything I have read has been positive towards the rally as well.

The rally informed a lot of people...

[geschinger]

BTW, Flanagan really seems to have his finger on the pulse of the team. The only comments I saw from players (Tejada & Roberts) seemed to show that they were impressed by those fans, Tejada in particular. Guess it didn't demoralize the players too much. :rolleyes:

Speaking of Flannagan, why isn't he getting any heat from fans. Isn't his comments about the support early on reminding him of the 70's and 80's and indictment of the (lack of) quality of support from big crowds when we were winning in the mid '90s through today?

[AgentOrange]

Just an observation I have made...

I have checked a bunch of other team's message boards this morning to get a feel for what other fans are thinking about how this protest went down.

This protest is a huge discussion on almost all of the message boards I went on. It really is the talk of baseball right now. Almost everything I have read has been positive towards the rally as well.

The rally informed a lot of people...

Is there any way to send a couple links to the message boards? I am curious to see what they are saying?

[frankpembleton]

Is there any way to send a couple links to the message boards? I am curious to see what they are saying?


Just a random one I happened upon from Indians fans:

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-indians&msg=29092.1&ctx=0

[rolliefingers]

Just a random one I happened upon from Indians fans:

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-indians&msg=29092.1&ctx=0I scoured SoSH looking for a mention, but I didn't see anything. I was surprised.

[glenn__davis]

I'm pretty much avoiding the protest talk altogether, because there's nothing I can add to the discussion, but..

Two things about that NY article --

1. Nestor is full of baloney for saying that "just the other day" he invited people to talk about last night's game and no one called. When was he last on in a call-in format, and why would he invite people to talk about the game when he clearly doesn't want to? Just blatant propaganda, there.

2. Nestor is full of baloney for saying that 2500 people showed up. I guarantee you, in 5 years, that number will jump to at least 5000. :D

[rolliefingers]

Just a random one I happened upon from Indians fans:

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-indians&msg=29092.1&ctx=0Funny how they're complaining about watching one of the best young teams in baseball, one that was tremendously unlucky this year. All they really need is a bullpen and they'll be very dangerous.

We spend far more money on less talent.

[GoBirds05]

Do we have any links to pictures?

[frankpembleton]

I scoured SoSH looking for a mention, but I didn't see anything. I was surprised.


Other team's sites that I checked that had discussions going were the Phillies, Giants, Padres, Pirates, and the Cubs - I'm sure it's being debated about on many other team sites as well.

Screw SOSH, those elitist jerks couldn't care less about any other team other than the Yankees. Our owner's favorite fans don't know what real losing is all about anyway.;)

[frankpembleton]

Do we have any links to pictures?


Pictures and video here:
http://www.wnst.net/OriolesPetition/protest.htm

[tennOsfan]

Speaking of Flannagan, why isn't he getting any heat from fans. Isn't his comments about the support early on reminding him of the 70's and 80's and indictment of the (lack of) quality of support from big crowds when we were winning in the mid '90s through today?

I see no reason why we'd give him heat for that. He made a factual statement -- the lively crowds have been absent for years. The truth should not offend.

[Colt]

500,1000.1500...who cares?
The rally was reported nationally.:D

[RZNJ]

I see no reason why we'd give him heat for that. He made a factual statement -- the lively crowds have been absent for years. The truth should not offend.


Agree 100%. I thought Flanagan's comments were a positive. He just said it brought back memories and he'd like to see the fan's have a team to be excited about again. That's how I took it.

[ejf1025]

I think this is the best of the articles not done locally...

************************************************

On Baseball
Fans Lament Decline and Fall of the Orioles

By MURRAY CHASS
Published: September 22, 2006

Some day the Baltimore Orioles will be remembered as the American League version of the Cincinnati Reds. How’s that?

The Reds were the last team to win the National League West championship before the Atlanta Braves began their unparalleled run of 14 consecutive division titles. The Orioles were the last team to win the American League East title before the Yankees began their ongoing streak of nine straight first-place finishes.

The Orioles in first place? The memory fades, it was so long ago.

The Orioles have faded, too. Since they finished first in 1997, their standing has fallen, their payroll has dropped and their attendance has plummeted. Their fans, who used to cram Camden Yards, long for the good old days, and many of them took to the streets around the park yesterday to deliver their message to Peter Angelos, the owner.

“There are so many complaints,” said Nestor Aparicio, organizer of the protest and owner of the sports talk-radio station WNST. “The community feels helpless, betrayed. We’re on 14 hours a day, and the other day I said, ‘Let’s talk about last night’s Orioles game,’ and we didn’t get a single phone call.”

When Angelos spoke on the telephone yesterday, at about the time the protesters were gathering at bars on two sides of Camden Yards, he did not seem fazed by the demonstration. He rejected its legitimacy, saying, without mentioning his name, that Aparicio was running it to enhance his talk show.

“This fellow, who has been going on for a number of years in a thoroughly irresponsible way, has a call-in show, I think,” Angelos said.

Aparicio, who said he is a distant cousin of the Orioles Hall of Famer Luis Aparicio, said, “This is not a publicity stunt for the radio station.”

Stunt or not, The Associated Press reported that nearly 1,000 fans walked out of the park en masse during the fourth inning of yesterday’s game against Detroit. Aparicio estimated the number at 2,500.

In better days, at the start of the Camden Yards era, the Orioles drew more than 3 million fans for nine full seasons in a row, reaching 3.7 million in the 1997 championship season. In the last four years of that economically robust period, the Orioles finished in fourth place, and by the fourth fourth-place finish, attendance was barely above 3 million.

This season the attendance is headed for the lowest total (less than 2.2 million) since 1988, the season in which the Orioles lost their first 21 games. The Orioles won the A.L. East title in 1997 with a $64 million payroll, second in the major leagues to the Yankees’ $67 million. The Orioles’ payroll remained second to the Yankees the next two years, but then began plummeting — in successive seasons to 5th, 12th, 14th, 15th and 21st in 2004.

They began this season with a $72 million payroll, according to commissioner’s office compilations, up from $51 million in 2004.

“We’re doing the best we can with a $75 million payroll,” Angelos said. “It’s tough to deal with teams that have double the payroll or triple. We expect to be increasing that payroll to compete.”

How much of an increase?

“In order to be competitive in the American League East,” the owner said, “you have to spend $100 million at a minimum, unless you push the right buttons and have the insight that Billy Beane and Terry Ryan have.”

Angelos, who doesn’t care for the title general manager, referred to the general managers of the Oakland Athletics and the Minnesota Twins, who are among the best in the business, putting together low-payroll teams that perennially contend.

General managers have not lasted long during Angelos’s 13-year ownership. He has either fired them or alienated them. Most often he has made their lives difficult by imposing a stifling oversight.

His reputation is such that he is even reported to do things he may not be responsible for. One person with knowledge of a recent deal said Angelos prevented a July 30 trade that would have sent shortstop Miguel Tejada to Houston for a package of players, including pitcher Roy Oswalt, whom they were then supposed to send elsewhere, most likely the Mets.

Angelos said yesterday the Orioles didn’t want to trade Tejada for a player, Oswalt, who could be a free agent after this season, but he didn’t acknowledge killing the trade. The general manager of another team said it was not Angelos’s move that killed the deal.

But Angelos does have a reputation among agents for turning off free agents. Player agents, who did not want to be identified so they wouldn’t hurt future negotiations, said Angelos’s low-ball offers annoy players, who then look for jobs elsewhere. Those same agents said that with the owner looking over their shoulders, his general managers are unable to pursue free agents aggressively.

Angelos also doesn’t like to pay draft choices large bonuses, forcing the Orioles to select lower-rated, less expensive amateurs.

Like many other teams, the Orioles planned to build a program in the Dominican Republic, but it has been on hold for years because Angelos has been reluctant to spend the necessary funds.

Speaking generally of player signings or moves, Angelos said: “I don’t stop anything. We have discussions, what it’s going to cost, what it’s going to look like and what the prospects are for it to be a successful trade. If the consensus is there, we’ll do it.”

One positive development has been the absence of Angelos’s sons, John and Lou, from the team’s operation. Earlier in Angelos’s ownership, the sons, especially John, were involved and not productively.

And Angelos sees signs of improvement, most notably with the team’s young pitchers, headed by Erik Bedard. “I think we have the makings of a first-class pitching staff,” he said. “We have four young pitchers who are doing well. If their talent and commitment hold true, I think in a year or two they’ll be one of the best pitching staffs in the American League.”

The fans can’t wait.

UGH. Seeing this printed out in a non-local paper and not on a message board makes me want to vomit.

How are there still people defending this guy? Seriously, I just don't see how "fans" are not filled with vitriol towards this man...

[Ooooooohhhh!!!!]

One area of contention I have seen a few times is that the fans left the game after the protest. I have to admit I was disappointed that we couldn't continue to cheer after 5:08. I think we did what needed to be done, but I also wish we could have stayed. In fact, after we made our way through the stadium, I turned around and watched the rest of the game from the flag court.

I don't know if it's feasible, but I'd like to see O's fans unite one more time before the season ends. Everyone could dress in black again, sit in the upper deck again, and cheer wildly for the O's again. This time, however, we'd all stay until the final out. Maybe then even Jay Gibbons would understand how much we love our ballclub.

[Andy_Dufresne]

UGH. Seeing this printed out in a non-local paper and not on a message board makes me want to vomit.

How are there still people defending this guy? Seriously, I just don't see how "fans" are not filled with vitriol towards this man...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/22/sports/baseball/22chass.html?ex=1159070400&en=f74e1f54b1b3da20&ei=5087%0A
There's a great picture of the protest in the New York TImes, both print and internet.
angelos has made the Orioles a national baseball joke.

[OregonBird]

Dan Patrick had it on his ESPN radio show. He called it a publicity stunt by a local radio show. He said some complimentary things about the city and its fans but the joked by saying "News Flash fans, you've stunk for 9 years" as if to question why they're protesting just yesterday.

They then played a clip supposedly from the protest (jokingly of course) where it sounded like 2 people were walking down a sidewalk.

I guess I shouldn't have expected more coverage from them.

[sakata_catching]

From one of the better Pirates boards I've visited:
http://www.baseballfans.net/piratestalk/forum.php?az=show_thread&forum=100&thread_id=195568&mesg_id=195568&page=

[Belkast]

I hope this doesn't get lost in the thread but I wanted to chime in here. I spoke to my guy and PGA is livid!!! From talking to my guy it sounds like to me that Pete is very hurt. He had no idea(believe it or not) how much he is disliked. The unfortunate part is he blames everything on Nestor. He feels like Nestor brainwashed the fans about his ownership. Not only is he pissed about Nestor he was pissed at the city police for not arresting Nestor. What a joke!
I wish I could say one way or the other what effect this rally will have. In one way I think he still wants to spend money this offseason to gain back some love from the fans. However I would not be a bit surprised if he did nothing just so Nestor doesn't look like a good guy here. This man is about proving his point and there will not be anyone that forces his hand. He is completely about power nothing more nothing less. I have no idea where this take us but my guy feeling says it will drop us back even more. I hope I am wrong!

[Andy_Dufresne]

I hope this doesn't get lost in the thread but I wanted to chime in here. I spoke to my guy and PGA is livid!!! From talking to my guy it sounds like to me that Pete is very hurt. He had no idea(believe it or not) how much he is disliked. The unfortunate part is he blames everything on Nestor. He feels like Nestor brainwashed the fans about his ownership. Not only is he pissed about Nestor he was pissed at the city police for not arresting Nestor. What a joke!
I wish I could say one way or the other what effect this rally will have. In one way I think he still wants to spend money this offseason to gain back some love from the fans. However I would not be a bit surprised if he did nothing just so Nestor doesn't look like a good guy here. This man is about proving his point and there will not be anyone that forces his hand. He is completely about power nothing more nothing less. I have no idea where this take us but my guy feeling says it will drop us back even more. I hope I am wrong!
Any information on when the last time he went to a game and sat in the stands? Read a box score? Looked at the standings? The Orioles are apporaching the pre-Mayflower Colts, and while angelos isn't as hated as irsay, I bet more baseball fans in Baltimore respect steinbrenner more than angelos

[RZNJ]

I hope this doesn't get lost in the thread but I wanted to chime in here. I spoke to my guy and PGA is livid!!! From talking to my guy it sounds like to me that Pete is very hurt. He had no idea(believe it or not) how much he is disliked. The unfortunate part is he blames everything on Nestor. He feels like Nestor brainwashed the fans about his ownership. Not only is he pissed about Nestor he was pissed at the city police for not arresting Nestor. What a joke!
I wish I could say one way or the other what effect this rally will have. In one way I think he still wants to spend money this offseason to gain back some love from the fans. However I would not be a bit surprised if he did nothing just so Nestor doesn't look like a good guy here. This man is about proving his point and there will not be anyone that forces his hand. He is completely about power nothing more nothing less. I have no idea where this take us but my guy feeling says it will drop us back even more. I hope I am wrong!

If he wants to be loved, standing pat this offseason, sure ain't the way to do it. If he wants to keep Nestor from getting some credit that's fine, but he'll be cutting off his nose to spite his face. Everyone knows he has more money now because even he already said it. If it doesn't get spent, yesterday's protest might look like the Easter parade compared to the next one.

[bigbird]

I hope this doesn't get lost in the thread but I wanted to chime in here. I spoke to my guy and PGA is livid!!! From talking to my guy it sounds like to me that Pete is very hurt. He had no idea(believe it or not) how much he is disliked. The unfortunate part is he blames everything on Nestor. He feels like Nestor brainwashed the fans about his ownership. Not only is he pissed about Nestor he was pissed at the city police for not arresting Nestor. What a joke!
I wish I could say one way or the other what effect this rally will have. In one way I think he still wants to spend money this offseason to gain back some love from the fans. However I would not be a bit surprised if he did nothing just so Nestor doesn't look like a good guy here. This man is about proving his point and there will not be anyone that forces his hand. He is completely about power nothing more nothing less. I have no idea where this take us but my guy feeling says it will drop us back even more. I hope I am wrong!

Thanks for the input. Got a feeling Angelos just might do nothing to prove his point. My question is how is such a brilliant attorney so clueless to the fact that a majority of Oriole fans hold him rsesponsible for the state of the team.

I;m on the record saying it was all done on purpose with the intention of keeping baseball out of DC or getting a sweetheart deal when a team was placed there.

[Fan4Life]

I hope this doesn't get lost in the thread but I wanted to chime in here. I spoke to my guy and PGA is livid!!! From talking to my guy it sounds like to me that Pete is very hurt. He had no idea(believe it or not) how much he is disliked. The unfortunate part is he blames everything on Nestor. He feels like Nestor brainwashed the fans about his ownership. Not only is he pissed about Nestor he was pissed at the city police for not arresting Nestor. What a joke!
I wish I could say one way or the other what effect this rally will have. In one way I think he still wants to spend money this offseason to gain back some love from the fans. However I would not be a bit surprised if he did nothing just so Nestor doesn't look like a good guy here. This man is about proving his point and there will not be anyone that forces his hand. He is completely about power nothing more nothing less. I have no idea where this take us but my guy feeling says it will drop us back even more. I hope I am wrong!

Not sure I agree. If we get more of the same smoke and mirrors approach this offseason that we have seen for the last several, then I think we need to regroup once again and make a drive to prevent season ticket holders from buying their usual seats.. and begin the picketing on opening day as BTerp has recommended. If we keep the pressure up, outside of Nestor, I think it can have a beneficial affect.

Thanks for sharing the info.. always a pleasure to hear from you guys.

[mdguy2415]

Andy, Peter Angelos goes to games quite a bit. He comes out onto Schaffer Plaza and gets into his car, escorted by one of his executives each almost every home game. I know of this because I like to hang out afterwards with friends and fellow fans and have seen him umpteen times.

In fact, once I snapped with picture of him, he posed with his thumbs up and he signed a ball for me - um, back several years ago before the vitrol against him. He seemed like a nice enough man, but then again I don't know him and how he has run the team is a different story.

From what I know from other Baltimore business people who have interaction with him, he's a very proud man - albeit, sometimes stubborn, as well as a Marylander who's done a lot for charity, in spite of his tenure owning the team and perception of his landmark cases.

[rolliefingers]

I hope this doesn't get lost in the thread but I wanted to chime in here. I spoke to my guy and PGA is livid!!! From talking to my guy it sounds like to me that Pete is very hurt. He had no idea(believe it or not) how much he is disliked. The unfortunate part is he blames everything on Nestor. He feels like Nestor brainwashed the fans about his ownership. Not only is he pissed about Nestor he was pissed at the city police for not arresting Nestor. What a joke!
I wish I could say one way or the other what effect this rally will have. In one way I think he still wants to spend money this offseason to gain back some love from the fans. However I would not be a bit surprised if he did nothing just so Nestor doesn't look like a good guy here. This man is about proving his point and there will not be anyone that forces his hand. He is completely about power nothing more nothing less. I have no idea where this take us but my guy feeling says it will drop us back even more. I hope I am wrong!Dude! Your posts never get lost! :D

I find it hard to believe that PGA just figured out how much everyone hates him. We've gotten reports from one of our insiders (must have been BigBird) that he knows full well how much he is hated, and he doesn't care.

BTW, intentionally not spending this offseason as a revenge against the fans is SUCH an Angelos move. All I can say is that if major changes aren't made this offseason, they're going to see a protest every game next season.

You wanna play hardball, Petey? Let's ball!

[rolliefingers]

Thanks for the input. Got a feeling Angelos just might do nothing to prove his point. My question is how is such a brilliant attorney so clueless to the fact that a majority of Oriole fans hold him rsesponsible for the state of the team.

I;m on the record saying it was all done on purpose with the intention of keeping baseball out of DC or getting a sweetheart deal when a team was placed there.*What* was all done on purpose? I don't understand your post.

[Icterus galbula]

I spoke to my guy and PGA is livid!!!


A fire in the master's house is set!


However I would not be a bit surprised if he did nothing just so Nestor doesn't look like a good guy here. This man is about proving his point and there will not be anyone that forces his hand.

What, is he in third grade?

Angelos just comes off worse and worse. The fact that he would think that fans are just a bunch of cows that could be "brainwashed" by Nestor is unbelievably insulting. He needs to take a good long look at the man in the mirror.

[rolliefingers]

A fire in the master's house is set!



What, is he in third grade?

Angelos just comes off worse and worse. The fact that he would think that fans are just a bunch of cows that could be "brainwashed" by Nestor is unbelievably insulting. He needs to take a good long look at the man in the mirror.He is a petty, stubborn man with a severe Napoleon complex.

[Fan4Life]

A fire in the master's house is set!



What, is he in third grade?

Angelos just comes off worse and worse. The fact that he would think that fans are just a bunch of cows that could be "brainwashed" by Nestor is unbelievably insulting. He needs to take a good long look at the man in the mirror.

As well as the fact the he has as his Mouth-Piece a former Orioles who should know where things were, and where they are, and given that, should be able to open his eyes..

[srock]

Since the protesting fans were so passionately into the game, it sounds like the Orioles need a fan club like them all the time! Only ones that won't leave before the game ends.

Something like Barra-Brava (http://www.barra-brava.com/) at DC United games.

How awesome would a giant Orioles flag being unfurled across the entire left field upper deck look whenever a homerun is hit?

[RZNJ]

Thanks for the input. Got a feeling Angelos just might do nothing to prove his point. My question is how is such a brilliant attorney so clueless to the fact that a majority of Oriole fans hold him rsesponsible for the state of the team.

I;m on the record saying it was all done on purpose with the intention of keeping baseball out of DC or getting a sweetheart deal when a team was placed there.

You'd have to believe that he purposely hired incomptent people and purposely fired the ones he found to be competent, and that he enjoys being the butt of jokes and one of the most unpopular owners in baseball. You really believe all that? You think he's mischeivous enough to hire or keep people on who oversaw a farm system which produce a trickle of talent for 15 years?

[rolliefingers]

Since the protesting fans were so passionately into the game, it sounds like the Orioles need a fan club like them all the time! Only ones that won't leave before the game ends.

Something like Barra-Brava (http://www.barra-brava.com/) at DC United games.

How awesome would a giant Orioles flag being unfurled across the entire left field upper deck look whenever a homerun is hit?Great idea, once PA does his part.