Rutgers

[NJOriolesFan]

I know there are a couple of Rutgers students on this board. I also know most of you have not taken the time to watch Rutgers play at all this year. They have most likely the best halfback-fullback tandem in the country and they have played some of the best defense in the country, albeit not against top offenses. So where is the middle ground on how well they have played and who they have played.

Looking at the Sagarin ratings, coming into last night's game, Rutgers would be favored vs. Louisville, Cincinnati and Syracuse. After last night's game, I am pretty sure they won't be favored and I'm not sure they would have been anyway by Vegas. However, the game is winnable for Rutgers in what will be a record crowd. If Rutgers were to beat Louisville, Cincy and Syracuse they would head down to Morgantown with an 11-0 record and a chance to win the Big East. I don't know that they can beat West Virginia or even Louisville, for that matter, but if they run the table, where does that leave them?

I'm sure they would get a BCS game. I doubt they would get a championship game under any circumstance even if they are the only undefeated team in the country (which is unlikely, there will be either 2 or 3).

Regardless, Ray Rice is a legitimate Heisman candidate although even a top 5 finis for the soph would be a major accomplishment.

And there is no doubt, no matter who you throw in to the mix, especially if Rutgers beats Louisville, Greg Schiano is CLEARLY the National coach of the year in college football.

[geschinger]

I know there are a couple of Rutgers students on this board. I also know most of you have not taken the time to watch Rutgers play at all this year. They have most likely the best halfback-fullback tandem in the country and they have played some of the best defense in the country, albeit not against top offenses. So where is the middle ground on how well they have played and who they have played.


I don't know if they even have the best combo in the BEast. I don't know that I'd take them over Schmitt and Slaton. Although any chance at an invite to the Heisman show for Slaton were probably eliminated when he hurt his hand/wrist and couldn't hold on to the football. Had he stayed healthy they may or may not have won but with the way he was running it would of been another 200+ yard night against a pretty good team.



Looking at the Sagarin ratings, coming into last night's game, Rutgers would be favored vs. Louisville, Cincinnati and Syracuse. After last night's game, I am pretty sure they won't be favored and I'm not sure they would have been anyway by Vegas. However, the game is winnable for Rutgers in what will be a record crowd. If Rutgers were to beat Louisville, Cincy and Syracuse they would head down to Morgantown with an 11-0 record and a chance to win the Big East. I don't know that they can beat West Virginia or even Louisville, for that matter, but if they run the table, where does that leave them?

I'm sure they would get a BCS game. I doubt they would get a championship game under any circumstance even if they are the only undefeated team in the country (which is unlikely, there will be either 2 or 3).

Regardless, Ray Rice is a legitimate Heisman candidate although even a top 5 finis for the soph would be a major accomplishment.

And there is no doubt, no matter who you throw in to the mix, especially if Rutgers beats Louisville, Greg Schiano is CLEARLY the National coach of the year in college football.

Their defense definately gives them a chance to win and Schiano is da man. Hopefully Rutgers can keep him for a while and not lose him to greener pastures.

The future definately looks bright for the BEast especially if some of the very talented underclassman hang around. Who'd of guessed that WVU and Rutgers and Louisville would legitimately be superior teams to those that left for the ACC.

[BaltimoreTerp]

If the Red Runners of the Raritan go undefeated, they will have beaten an undefeated Louisville and a (likely) once-defeated West Virginia.

The way the system is set up, they would deserve to go to the championship game.

Which is why we need a playoff system.

I, for one, am rooting for THE State University of New Jersey.

[NJOriolesFan]

I don't know if they even have the best combo in the BEast. I don't know that I'd take them over Schmitt and Slaton. Although any chance at an invite to the Heisman show for Slaton were probably eliminated when he hurt his hand/wrist and couldn't hold on to the football. Had he stayed healthy they may or may not have won but with the way he was running it would of been another 200+ yard night against a pretty good team.

I don't know. Ray Rice is considered by many experts to be #2 or #3 in the Heisman race. Slaton, of course, is the other guy that the experts have at #2 and #3. Brian Leonard is the top fullback in college. He will likely be a low 1st or 2nd round draft choice in the NFL. He is in the mold of a Rob Konrad or Mike Alstott or Tom Rathman. Two made it. One didn't. I think/hope he will be a successful pro. I would like it even more if he ends up being a successful pro for the Vikings, eventually taking over for Tony Richardson.




Their defense definately gives them a chance to win and Schiano is da man. Hopefully Rutgers can keep him for a while and not lose him to greener pastures.

The future definately looks bright for the BEast especially if some of the very talented underclassman hang around. Who'd of guessed that WVU and Rutgers and Louisville would legitimately be superior teams to those that left for the ACC.

Mike Trangeesee (sp????) said that he doesn't think he will leave Rutgers. He is a New Jersey guy and turning around Rutgers may truly be his dream job. More money may be thrown at him and Rutgers athletics is suffering financially. But, with a BCS bowl appearance, they could take that money and save it for when they need to ante up for Schiano. Even if he were to leave, he would leave Rutgers in a better place than when he got there and that would be attractive to a solid new coach if they were to need to go out and get one.

Schiano has become a celebrity of sorts. The frat houses on campus have signs hanging that say "Schiano for President" (I know not real original). Schiano's kids go to the same Catholic school as my son and yesterday in the parking lot after he dropped off his kids, there were a couple kids screaming his name to get his attention. They are members of the same church as my family and he is active in his kids' school (as much as a college head coach can be). He is also much bigger than he looks on TV. I guess being surrounded by the huge lineman on TV makes him appear to be smaller than he is but he is taller and definately more solid than I thought he was. And no this is not a man-crush. I've said for years that if somebody could just keep all of the New Jersey talent from rushing out of state and keep them at Rutgers, they could be perrenial top 20 teams. Schiano also has his recruiting hooks in Southern Florida and Pennsylvania due to the time he spent with high school coaches while he was at Miami and Penn State.

I am actually more worried about him leaving for an NFL job in a few years than I am about him leaving for University of Miami. Penn State could be an attractive option for him though, if Paterno ever stops coaching.

[NJOriolesFan]

If the Red Runners of the Raritan go undefeated, they will have beaten an undefeated Louisville and a (likely) once-defeated West Virginia.

The way the system is set up, they would deserve to go to the championship game.

Which is why we need a playoff system.

I, for one, am rooting for THE State University of New Jersey.

While I agree, I think Florida and USC will end up ahead of them if they both win out, as well as the Ohio State-Michigan winner. I can still see a scenario where Rutgers would be THE ONLY undefeated team in the nation and still end up 3rd in the BCS. The one thing Rutgers has going for them is that they are ranked higher in the computer ratings than they are in the polls. If they finished undefeated, I have a feeling the voters would jump on board.

[geschinger]

I don't know. Ray Rice is considered by many experts to be #2 or #3 in the Heisman race. Slaton, of course, is the other guy that the experts have at #2 and #3. Brian Leonard is the top fullback in college. He will likely be a low 1st or 2nd round draft choice in the NFL. He is in the mold of a Rob Konrad or Mike Alstott or Tom Rathman. Two made it. One didn't. I think/hope he will be a successful pro. I would like it even more if he ends up being a successful pro for the Vikings, eventually taking over for Tony Richardson.


I'll look forward to watching him play next week. I can't decide who I'll be rooting for though. It'd be great for Louisville to run the table and be in the Fiesta Bowl but at the same time a Rutgers win would still give WVU a BCS chance.




Mike Trangeesee (sp????) said that he doesn't think he will leave Rutgers. He is a New Jersey guy and turning around Rutgers may truly be his dream job. More money may be thrown at him and Rutgers athletics is suffering financially. But, with a BCS bowl appearance, they could take that money and save it for when they need to ante up for Schiano. Even if he were to leave, he would leave Rutgers in a better place than when he got there and that would be attractive to a solid new coach if they were to need to go out and get one.

Schiano has become a celebrity of sorts. The frat houses on campus have signs hanging that say "Schiano for President" (I know not real original). Schiano's kids go to the same Catholic school as my son and yesterday in the parking lot after he dropped off his kids, there were a couple kids screaming his name to get his attention. They are members of the same church as my family and he is active in his kids' school (as much as a college head coach can be). He is also much bigger than he looks on TV. I guess being surrounded by the huge lineman on TV makes him appear to be smaller than he is but he is taller and definately more solid than I thought he was. And no this is not a man-crush. I've said for years that if somebody could just keep all of the New Jersey talent from rushing out of state and keep them at Rutgers, they could be perrenial top 20 teams. Schiano also has his recruiting hooks in Southern Florida and Pennsylvania due to the time he spent with high school coaches while he was at Miami and Penn State.

I am actually more worried about him leaving for an NFL job in a few years than I am about him leaving for University of Miami. Penn State could be an attractive option for him though, if Paterno ever stops coaching.

I hope he's right. However I've heard the same things about WVU being Rich Rodriguez's dream job but that doesn't stop me worrying if there is any truth to rumors of everything from NC (why?) to being Bowden's successor at FSU.

[BaltimoreTerp]

While I agree, I think Florida and USC will end up ahead of them if they both win out, as well as the Ohio State-Michigan winner. I can still see a scenario where Rutgers would be THE ONLY undefeated team in the nation and still end up 3rd in the BCS. The one thing Rutgers has going for them is that they are ranked higher in the computer ratings than they are in the polls. If they finished undefeated, I have a feeling the voters would jump on board.
That would be great, if they were third or lower as the only undefeated, especially after beating WVU and Louisville.

More BCS chaos is better.

[beaner]

Come on now, with all due respect for the job Schiano has done to turn around that program, they have no shot of playing in the National championship game. If they did, Ohio State would be favored by 30, it would be ridiculous. Rutgers has beaten North Carolina and Navy out of conference this year. They wont beat Louisville and West Virginia, hopefully they'll beat Louisville and West Virginia will beat them so we can get the ridiculous idea of a Big East team playing for the National Championship out of our minds. Honestly, the conference is sub par for Football..Did you see WEst Virginia's schedule when they showed it last night? Awful.

[geschinger]

Come on now, with all due respect for the job Schiano has done to turn around that program, they have no shot of playing in the National championship game. If they did, Ohio State would be favored by 30, it would be ridiculous. Rutgers has beaten North Carolina and Navy out of conference this year. They wont beat Louisville and West Virginia, hopefully they'll beat Louisville and West Virginia will beat them so we can get the ridiculous idea of a Big East team playing for the National Championship out of our minds. Honestly, the conference is sub par for Football..Did you see WEst Virginia's schedule when they showed it last night? Awful.

The BEast aint the SEC but the best teams in the Big East are better teams than those in some other conferences like the ACC and the Big 12. And WVU did show last year in the Sugar Bowl that not even the SEC Champion is capable of stopping them from running all over 'em.

[Tank]

That would be great, if they were third or lower as the only undefeated, especially after beating WVU and Louisville.

More BCS chaos is better.

I agree. The more controversy involved, the more they talk about implementing a playoff system. I'm rooting for Rutgers to go undefeated.

[geschinger]

I agree. The more controversy involved, the more they talk about implementing a playoff system. I'm rooting for Rutgers to go undefeated.

You would think, but I've read and heard College Presidents quoted saying that the controversy is what makes college football great and there is no need for a playoff. With the vast majority of schools not benefiting from a playoff system I'd be surprised if it gets any traction for anything more than a 4 team playoff which while better than nothing doesn't really solve the problem(s).

[BaltimoreTerp]

You would think, but I've read and heard College Presidents quoted saying that the controversy is what makes college football great and there is no need for a playoff. With the vast majority of schools not benefiting from a playoff system I'd be surprised if it gets any traction for anything more than a 4 team playoff which while better than nothing doesn't really solve the problem(s).
The problem is, you can implement a playoff over the present bowl system (minus the BCS) and still have it work.

Since the present bowls mean absolute jack, they can be kept around for teams that don't make the playoff. Run a twelve- or sixteen-team playoff throughout December, starting on the first Saturday after the first Monday in December (kind of like Election Day), which should give three Saturdays for the first three rounds of games, and a minimum of a week before New Year's Day, when the championship game would be played.

I'd prefer sixteen teams, because then you can give an automatic bid to all eleven conferences, with five at-larges.

Teams that don't make the playoffs can still play in their respective bowls, kind of like the NIT. Teams that lose in the playoffs (except for, obviously, the last one) can play in bowls as well.

In that situation, not only would a team like Rutgers get a shot at a championship by going undefeated, but a team like Louisville or West Virginia would have a shot at an at-large bid.

The more you make it like the NCAA Basketball tournament, which might be the most popular sporting event in America, the better.

[geschinger]

The problem is, you can implement a playoff over the present bowl system (minus the BCS) and still have it work.

Since the present bowls mean absolute jack, they can be kept around for teams that don't make the playoff. Run a twelve- or sixteen-team playoff throughout December, starting on the first Saturday after the first Monday in December (kind of like Election Day), which should give three Saturdays for the first three rounds of games, and a minimum of a week before New Year's Day, when the championship game would be played.

I'd prefer sixteen teams, because then you can give an automatic bid to all eleven conferences, with five at-larges.

Teams that don't make the playoffs can still play in their respective bowls, kind of like the NIT. Teams that lose in the playoffs (except for, obviously, the last one) can play in bowls as well.

In that situation, not only would a team like Rutgers get a shot at a championship by going undefeated, but a team like Louisville or West Virginia would have a shot at an at-large bid.

The more you make it like the NCAA Basketball tournament, which might be the most popular sporting event in America, the better.

I agree with you but while I think a 4 team (3 games) scenario is possible allowing some teams to play 15-18 games in a season doesn't have any chance of happening anytime soon.

Especially after they changed the rules that had allowed teams to play that extra game to start the season, like the Pigskin Classic and games like that.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I agree with you but while I think a 4 team (3 games) scenario is possible allowing some teams to play 15-18 games in a season doesn't have any chance of happening anytime soon.

Especially after they changed the rules that had allowed teams to play that extra game to start the season, like the Pigskin Classic and games like that.
Then they should cut out that extra game.

The playoff gives more money to the schools, playing those extra games, and allows money to go directly to the NCAA.

The greedy b******s should be jumping all over that :D

[blueberryale77]

Schiano is da man. Hopefully Rutgers can keep him for a while and not lose him to greener pastures.

Well they tried to prevent that by selling him a piece of their ecological preserve to build himself a mansion near the football stadium. They tried to just give it to them but after a bunch of public outcry they made him pay something for the land and agree to give Rutgers the first option to buy the land back from him if/when he sells.

[blueberryale77]

It's kind of fun to be watching all this Rutgers football stuff, but as an RU grad student I do have a couple of complaints about it.

1) The team's success has definitely messed with my school's annual alumni association tailgate. We are having it Thursday night and now most of our alumni can't get tickets because they're sold out (which NEVER, EVER used to happen at Rutgers) and the students have to go out to the football stadium (which is in Piscataway, not New Brunswick and is a pain in the butt to go to) on Tuesday or Wednesday to pick up tickets (every single student who wants a ticket has to go and present their own ID) whereas we used to just be able to swipe our ID cards at the gate to get in.

2) It rubs a lot of us the wrong way that in a time of major budget cuts in the athletic and all departments, the football budget is growing at its fastest rate ever. Faculty and staff positions are being eliminated, sports like men's crew which have been around since the 1700's are being cut, and football seems to get all the money it asks for even though it has yet to become an actual profitable endeavor for Rutgers.

3) There are lots of annoying, drunk, underage bandwagon fans running around town getting in the way of those of us who are trying to get an education and/or work here and pretending that they know all about football and have been huge RU football fans since they were little kids and the team was awful.

All that being said, I'm totally going to the riot if we finish undefeated and don't get to play for the national championship!:p

[NJOriolesFan]

Come on now, with all due respect for the job Schiano has done to turn around that program, they have no shot of playing in the National championship game. If they did, Ohio State would be favored by 30, it would be ridiculous. Rutgers has beaten North Carolina and Navy out of conference this year. They wont beat Louisville and West Virginia, hopefully they'll beat Louisville and West Virginia will beat them so we can get the ridiculous idea of a Big East team playing for the National Championship out of our minds. Honestly, the conference is sub par for Football..Did you see WEst Virginia's schedule when they showed it last night? Awful.


You failed to mention that they also beat Illinois 33-0 which just lost to Ohio State 17-10. Just saying......

Obviously, somebody has some issues.

[Why Not?]

The idea that a winner can be decided by the current system is totally bogus. As long as the system is the way it is, I just don't care about the "National Championship"

Just looking at last weekend's games, WVU's performance vs. Louisville was about 300 times more impressive than what Michigan and Ohio State did. Yet the Moutaineers are done and the others rise. It's dumb.

The rankings are way too tied up in historical biases. People knock the Big East teams' schedules but who is to say for a fact that, say, Penn State is better than Syracuse? We don't know. Rutgers might stomp Michigan, we don't know. Everybody deserves a chance to prove they are among the best, whether your name is Ohio State or Boise State.

Division I-AA does it right. Until there's a playoff, it's illegitimate.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Ito is God?

[Hank Scorpio]

Ito is God?

Nah, God woulda hit the first one ;)

[AgentOrange]

The idea that a winner can be decided by the current system is totally bogus. As long as the system is the way it is, I just don't care about the "National Championship"

Just looking at last weekend's games, WVU's performance vs. Louisville was about 300 times more impressive than what Michigan and Ohio State did. Yet the Moutaineers are done and the others rise. It's dumb.

The rankings are way too tied up in historical biases. People knock the Big East teams' schedules but who is to say for a fact that, say, Penn State is better than Syracuse? We don't know. Rutgers might stomp Michigan, we don't know. Everybody deserves a chance to prove they are among the best, whether your name is Ohio State or Boise State.

Division I-AA does it right. Until there's a playoff, it's illegitimate.

That and the preseason ranking.

It sucks because teams like WVU and Rutgers don't have too much of a chance, even if they run the table, to be in the NC game. All because of preseason rankings and perception.

I did enjoy that game last night, a lot of emotion. I think Rutgers D was most impressive, IMO. They had a ton of blitzes and did well backing each other up. I was very impressed with the fact that after they gave up a couple big plays, they still came after the football. Very nice to see.

[NJOriolesFan]

That game certainly lived up to the hype it was getting in my area.

[Hank Scorpio]

That was the most fun I've had watching a football game - college OR pro - all year (sans maybe the Michigan pounding of Notre Dame).

[NJOriolesFan]

That was the most fun I've had watching a football game - college OR pro - all year (sans maybe the Michigan pounding of Notre Dame).
I have to agree with you burds. My wife was into it, too. Of course, she is a Rutgers grad.

[Tank]

What an awesome game. I was very happy to see Rutgers win.

[NJOriolesFan]

What an awesome game. I was very happy to see Rutgers win.

Now if Rutgers can go undefeated and not get the National Championship game, maybe that helps get a playoff system going.

How about this scenario:

Michigan beats Ohio State.
Cal beats USC
USC beats Notre Dame

Michigan loses to Florida in a close sloppy game for the National Championship.

Cal beats Ohio State in the Rose Bowl.

Undefeated Rutgers CRUSHES defending champ Texas in one of the BCS Bowl Games.

With those teams picking up losses and Rutgers being undefeated after beating the defending National champ where would it leave them and the whole BCS Committee? It won't likely happen and there is practically no way that Rutgers can get the chapionship game but that is what makes a playoff necessary.

By the way, Rutgers is now #3 in the Sagarin ratings that are used in the BCS computer rankings. They are behind only Ohio State and Michigan and one of them will drop out of the top 2 after they play each other.

[geschinger]

Big East football may be the most entertaining brand of college football today.

Awesome game last night. Unfortunately for the BEast, it's hard to make it through the conference unscathed and therefore they likely won't get a chance at the National Title. I have a feeling WVU will take care of Rutgers leaving 3 Big East teams w/one loss.

[beaner]

Big East football may be the most entertaining brand of college football today.

Awesome game last night. Unfortunately for the BEast, it's hard to make it through the conference unscathed and therefore they likely won't get a chance at the National Title. I have a feeling WVU will take care of Rutgers leaving 3 Big East teams w/one loss.
It is certainly entertaining, but far from the best. The out of conference schedules are awful, as are most of the defenses. It was a great game last night, fun to watch and the fans were terrific. But, these Big East teams would have no shot against Ohio State, Michigan, FLorida, and Texas. Before anyone says it, I know West Virginia beat Georgia in the Sugar Bowl last year. It was a big win, but 1 big win out of conference doesnt mean that much.

No disrespect meant to what Schiano has done at Rutgers, it's a great story.

[geschinger]

It is certainly entertaining, but far from the best. The out of conference schedules are awful, as are most of the defenses. It was a great game last night, fun to watch and the fans were terrific. But, these Big East teams would have no shot against Ohio State, Michigan, FLorida, and Texas. Before anyone says it, I know West Virginia beat Georgia in the Sugar Bowl last year. It was a big win, but 1 big win out of conference doesnt mean that much.

No disrespect meant to what Schiano has done at Rutgers, it's a great story.

I agree that overall the SEC is the best conference but let's not pretend like the Big East OOC schedules are any worse than those of schools from other major conferences. Vanderbilt's win @ Duke was the only road OOC win for the SEC against a team from one of the Big Six conferences.

I don't think any of the BEast teams would beat OSU or Michigan but I don't think Florida or Texas would either. I don't think a credible argument can be made that a team like WVU or LOU is not capable of beating a FL or UT though.

[ledzepp8]

It is certainly entertaining, but far from the best. The out of conference schedules are awful, as are most of the defenses. It was a great game last night, fun to watch and the fans were terrific. But, these Big East teams would have no shot against Ohio State, Michigan, FLorida, and Texas. Before anyone says it, I know West Virginia beat Georgia in the Sugar Bowl last year. It was a big win, but 1 big win out of conference doesnt mean that much.

No disrespect meant to what Schiano has done at Rutgers, it's a great story.
Please, the Big East out of conference schedules are no worse than any of the teams you mentioned. Vanderbilt, Central Michigan, Northern Illinois, Cinncinnatti, Bowling Green, Northern Texas, Rice, Sam Houston St, Southern Miss, Central Florida, Western Carolina are some of the teams that Ohio St, Michigan, Florida and Texas played in their super duper out of conference schedules. The point is everyone plays cupcake teams in their non conference schedules. To hold it against one conference and not the other is just silly. Especially when out of the four conference of the teams you mentioned, only the SEC has a better non conference record than that of the "lowly" Big East.

[beaner]

Please, the Big East out of conference schedules are no worse than any of the teams you mentioned. Vanderbilt, Central Michigan, Northern Illinois, Cinncinnatti, Bowling Green, Northern Texas, Rice, Sam Houston St, Southern Miss, Central Florida, Western Carolina are some of the teams that Ohio St, Michigan, Florida and Texas played in their super duper out of conference schedules. The point is everyone plays cupcake teams in their non conference schedules. To hold it against one conference and not the other is just silly. Especially when out of the four conference of the teams you mentioned, only the SEC has a better non conference record than that of the "lowly" Big East.
Ohio State went into Texas and has to play other Bowl teams in their own conference as does Florida, Texas, Michigan etc.....You cant compare Syracuse, South Florida, and UCONN to the teams that the Texas',Ohio States and Michigans have to play on a weekly basis.
Points are well taken on the non-conference schedules though.

[geschinger]

Ohio State went into Texas and has to play other Bowl teams in their own conference as does Florida, Texas, Michigan etc.....You cant compare Syracuse, South Florida, and UCONN to the teams that the Texas',Ohio States and Michigans have to play on a weekly basis.
Points are well taken on the non-conference schedules though.

The Big East has a good percentage of it's teams going to bowls so I'm not what the point you are trying to make is.

There is conference bias slipping through in your post... The Big East conference schedule is every bit as tough as the Big 12 of ACC for example. I think if you look at any of the attempts to objectively rank conference such as what Sagarin does you'll find the Big East is a lot better than people want to give it credit for.

[beaner]

The Big East has a good percentage of it's teams going to bowls so I'm not what the point you are trying to make is.

There is conference bias slipping through in your post... The Big East conference schedule is every bit as tough as the Big 12 of ACC for example. I think if you look at any of the attempts to objectively rank conference such as what Sagarin does you'll find the Big East is a lot better than people want to give it credit for.
I have no bias, I'm an ACC guy so i have no allegiance to any conference other than the ACC. I cant see how you can possibly say that playing Arkansas, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Alabama, etc, and half of those on the road compares at all to the weaker teams in the Big East. That's all I'm saying. I have nothing against Rutgers, West Virginia, or the Big East in general. I dont think that those teams are at the same level as some of the other conferences.

[geschinger]

I have no bias, I'm an ACC guy so i have no allegiance to any conference other than the ACC. I cant see how you can possibly say that playing Arkansas, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Alabama, etc, and half of those on the road compares at all to the weaker teams in the Big East. That's all I'm saying. I have nothing against Rutgers, West Virginia, or the Big East in general. I dont think that those teams are at the same level as some of the other conferences.

I wouldn't argue with you about the SEC, that is the toughest conference by far IMO. But the Big 12, ACC, etc... are weaker at the top than the Big East is. And it's possible in those conferences to make it to a Championship game w/o even having to play the best in the conference.

[beaner]

I wouldn't argue with you about the SEC, that is the toughest conference by far IMO. But the Big 12, ACC, etc... are weaker at the top than the Big East is. And it's possible in those conferences to make it to a Championship game w/o even having to play the best in the conference.
Yea, the ACC is down certainly, but normally it's much stronger than the Big East. Miami, Florida State, Virignia Tech...etc are always Title contenders. The Big East had a few contenders this year, and I too was a believer in West Virginia until that Louisville game. They turned the ball over too much and couldnt stop anybody. While the Big East may be stronger at the top than the ACC or Big 12, those two are much deeper top to bottom than South Florida, Syracuse and UCONN.

[geschinger]

Yea, the ACC is down certainly, but normally it's much stronger than the Big East. Miami, Florida State, Virignia Tech...etc are always Title contenders. The Big East had a few contenders this year, and I too was a believer in West Virginia until that Louisville game. They turned the ball over too much and couldnt stop anybody. While the Big East may be stronger at the top than the ACC or Big 12, those two are much deeper top to bottom than South Florida, Syracuse and UCONN.

ACC has been down ever since raiding the BEast. Two years in a row the ACC representative in the BCS would have had no chance of being there if not for an auto bid. I find that to be ironic as back when UM switched there were people in Miami arguing that the Big East didn't deserve a BCS bid as they needed another at large to make sure that FSU and UM both continued to get their yearly invite.

I have to disagree... The Big 12 has teams like Baylor, Iowa State and Colorodo and the ACC has teams like VA, NC and Duke and the Big 10 has teams like Illinois and Northwestern all of which are teams that grade out as being worse than the worst two Big East teams - Syracuse and UConn.

[beaner]

ACC has been down ever since raiding the BEast. Two years in a row the ACC representative in the BCS would have had no chance of being there if not for an auto bid.

I have to disagree... The Big 12 has teams like Baylor, Iowa State and Colorodo and the ACC has teams like VA, NC and Duke and the Big 10 has teams like Illinois and Northwestern all of which are teams that grade out as being worse than the worst two Big East teams - Syracuse and UConn.
I agree with your first point. But you have to admit the Big East was in the same boat, remember the year Pitt got the Auto bid and played Utah in the Fiesta Bowl, they got crushed and that was only Utah.

I hear you, but I think the overall depth of the Big 12, Big 10, ACC, and of course SEC is much better than the big East. Maybe Syracuse could beat Iowa State or Colorado, you could be right, but no way do Pitt, Cincinatti....etc beat middle teams in the Big 12 like Texas A&M, Nebraska, and Texas Tech..I guess now that I am writing it, that was my point all along, the overall depth of other conferences os stronger than the Big East. My opinion, of course. We can re visit this conversation as the bowl games go on. I say the Big East teams don't win two bowl games.

[geschinger]

I agree with your first point. But you have to admit the Big East was in the same boat, remember the year Pitt got the Auto bid and played Utah in the Fiesta Bowl, they got crushed and that was only Utah.


That was the old BEast. ;) Tranghese did a superb job picking replacements from what was available.



I hear you, but I think the overall depth of the Big 12, Big 10, ACC, and of course SEC is much better than the big East. Maybe Syracuse could beat Iowa State or Colorado, you could be right, but no way do Pitt, Cincinatti....etc beat middle teams in the Big 12 like Texas A&M, Nebraska, and Texas Tech..


It depends on how you look at it. The BEast is only 8 teams. You are comparing some the bottom half of the BEast against teams that are in the top 3rd of Big 12. If you are an ACC basketball fan I'm sure you'd make a similar argument about the BEast vs ACC in basketball.



I guess now that I am writing it, that was my point all along, the overall depth of other conferences os stronger than the Big East. My opinion, of course. We can re visit this conversation as the bowl games go on. I say the Big East teams don't win two bowl games.

We'll see. I think the BEast will do just fine this bowl season.

Jeff Sagarin does an analysis to rank conferences and it's just another example of how reality doesn't really equal perception when it comes to the BEast.



Jeff Sagarin NCAA football ratings

CONFERENCE CENTRAL MEAN SIMPLE AVERAGE TEAMS

1 PAC-10 (A) = 80.93 80.29 ( 1) 10
2 BIG EAST (A) = 78.30 78.95 ( 2) 8
3 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 77.97 78.02 ( 3) 12
4 BIG TEN (A) = 76.30 77.60 ( 4) 11
5 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 75.24 73.78 ( 6) 12
6 BIG 12 (A) = 73.96 74.11 ( 5) 12

[beaner]

Meanwhile, look at all of the teams who lost today. Rutgers could end up in the title game after all is said and done. Although my bet is they'll lose to Cincinnati next week.

[geschinger]

Meanwhile, look at all of the teams who lost today. Rutgers could end up in the title game after all is said and done. Although my bet is they'll lose to Cincinnati next week.

I'd take that bet. I do think Rutgers will lose to WVU though.

After watching WVU today followed by watching the one loss teams lose or struggle I have no doubt that a WVU or LOU would be capable of beating a UF or ND. The only one loss team that I think if they played well would handle either easily is USC.

[beaner]

I'd take that bet. I do think Rutgers will lose to WVU though.

After watching WVU today followed by watching the one loss teams lose or struggle I have no doubt that a WVU or LOU would be capable of beating a UF or ND. The only one loss team that I think if they played well would handle either easily is USC.
I'm calling it now, Cincinnati outright over Rutgers! Remember where you heard it first. I think Florida would handle Louisville easily but WVU would give them a game.

[Sports Guy]

Interesting BCS standings.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/BCSStandings

Rutgers shoots all the way to #6...That is enough, IMO, where if things play out right, that they could play for the NC.

If USC loses to Cal but beats ND and Florida loses a game and Rutgers wins out, they could be #2 and play the winner for Mich/OSU.

[geschinger]

Interesting BCS standings.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/BCSStandings

Rutgers shoots all the way to #6...That is enough, IMO, where if things play out right, that they could play for the NC.

If USC loses to Cal but beats ND and Florida loses a game and Rutgers wins out, they could be #2 and play the winner for Mich/OSU.

They very well could... According to the computers, Rutgers is the 2nd best team in the country. What is amazing is that it's not out of the realm of possibilites for the BEast to get two BCS bids.

The worst of all possible scenarios which has more and more possibilities of happening is having an OSU/UM rematch.

While the chances are slim, I even have a sliver of hope for WVU.

If USC loses to Cal, USC beats ND, LSU beats Arkansas, Arkansas beats Florida and WVU beats Rutgers. Unfortunately though it would probably result in UM/OSU rematch.

[beaner]

If Rutgers gets to the BCS title game, I'll walk to the Fiesta Bowl....Hopefully USC wins out and they play Mich/OSU for the title, that would be the best matchup for the sport.

[geschinger]

If Rutgers gets to the BCS title game, I'll walk to the Fiesta Bowl....Hopefully USC wins out and they play Mich/OSU for the title, that would be the best matchup for the sport.

If they win out they'll deserve it. A team (Rutgers) that can help bring the NE back into the College Football elite would be huge for the sport.

[Sports Guy]

Well, lets say USC plays OSU in the title game and wins.

Now, let's also say Rutgers wins the rest of their games, including a BCS game...Perhaps you see a shared title?

FWIW, i will call a USC/OSU title game.

[beaner]

If they win out they'll deserve it. A team (Rutgers) that can help bring the NE back into the College Football elite would be huge for the sport.
I'll walk there Naked in fact! I agree with your point though, it would be huge for the region.

[beaner]

Well, lets say USC plays OSU in the title game and wins.

Now, let's also say Rutgers wins the rest of their games, including a BCS game...Perhaps you see a shared title?

FWIW, i will call a USC/OSU title game.
I'll agree although I'd love to see Michigan beat Ohio State.

[geschinger]

Well, lets say USC plays OSU in the title game and wins.

Now, let's also say Rutgers wins the rest of their games, including a BCS game...Perhaps you see a shared title?

FWIW, i will call a USC/OSU title game.

Absolutely. If Rutgers beats WVU, unless UM/OSU is an extremly close game I'd be shocked if the loser ends up ranked ahead of Rutgers in the AP Poll. However if Meeeeechigan wins, Rutgers has a great chance to pass them in the BCS. They are already ranked higher than OSU in the computer portion. OSU has only one impressive win this year which is killing them in the computer rankings.

My prediction is Michigan / Arkansas playing for the National title.

[beaner]

Absolutely. If Rutgers beats WVU, unless UM/OSU is an extremly close game I'd be shocked if the loser ends up ranked ahead of Rutgers in the AP Poll. However if Meeeeechigan wins, Rutgers has a great chance to pass them in the BCS. They are already ranked higher than OSU in the computer portion. OSU has only one impressive win this year which is killing them in the computer rankings.

My prediction is Michigan / Arkansas playing for the National title.

Arkansas is a sleeper, but I think Florida beats them in the SEC title game. Gutsy pick though.

[geschinger]

Arkansas is a sleeper, but I think Florida beats them in the SEC title game. Gutsy pick though.

I'm not sold on UF. I think they are overrated. They were extrodinarily lucky to escape against a good but not great USC team. With Arkansas running game I think they'll control the clock vs UF and force Leak into making the mistakes he commonly makes in big games.

[beaner]

I'm not sold on UF. I think they are overrated. They were extrodinarily lucky to escape against a good but not great USC team. With Arkansas running game I think they'll control the clock vs UF and force Leak into making the mistakes he commonly makes in big games.
Florida blocked 2 field goals and an extra point to win that game, but i think South Carolina was going all out for the old ball coach. Florida/Arkansas will be a great game, but I'll take the Gators and Leak to redeem a solid yet dissapoiting career.

[Sports Guy]

Florida has a great defense but their offense is inconsitent. They need to run Wynn more, who looked impressive but they don't give it to him enough.

[mweb]

They very well could... According to the computers, Rutgers is the 2nd best team in the country. What is amazing is that it's not out of the realm of possibilites for the BEast to get two BCS bids.

The worst of all possible scenarios which has more and more possibilities of happening is having an OSU/UM rematch.

While the chances are slim, I even have a sliver of hope for WVU.

If USC loses to Cal, USC beats ND, LSU beats Arkansas, Arkansas beats Florida and WVU beats Rutgers. Unfortunately though it would probably result in UM/OSU rematch.

While a OSU/UM rematch might not be desirable or whatever, I don't think it's the worst of all possible scenarios. I think it's always been unfair in college football that losing early is so much better than losing late. If UM lost to OSU in the 3rd week, they'd have a much much better chance at the title game then if they lose next week.

[beaner]

While a OSU/UM rematch might not be desirable or whatever, I don't think it's the worst of all possible scenarios. I think it's always been unfair in college football that losing early is so much better than losing late. If UM lost to OSU in the 3rd week, they'd have a much much better chance at the title game then if they lose next week.
Reason # 100 why they need a playoff. It would get rid of all talk that a team like Rutgers or Boise State deserves a National Championship. Let them play in the playoff, reward them for great seasons no doubt, but then the teams that actually play good competition week in and week out will show their class.

[geschinger]

While a OSU/UM rematch might not be desirable or whatever, I don't think it's the worst of all possible scenarios. I think it's always been unfair in college football that losing early is so much better than losing late. If UM lost to OSU in the 3rd week, they'd have a much much better chance at the title game then if they lose next week.

Worst of all scenarios because it would be a rematch, not that either team wouldn't be worthy. Although, that said, if OSU were to lose I'm not sure they would be worthy. As was pointed out in an article analyzing their season their only impressive win was against a Texas team whose defense has been exposed in recent weeks. It's why the computers have them ranked lower.

[mweb]

Worst of all scenarios because it would be a rematch, not that either team wouldn't be worthy. Although, that said, if OSU were to lose I'm not sure they would be worthy. As was pointed out in an article analyzing their season their only impressive win was against a Texas team whose defense has been exposed in recent weeks. It's why the computers have them ranked lower.

Well the loser of this game(assuming it's close) will probably be just as deserving as a team such as Florida or Notre Dame. I just don't care for the most recent loser factor in the rankings. Yeah, maybe it should play a role, but not as much as it does.

I guess I agree about the rematch, unless the game is a great one.

[geschinger]

Well the loser of this game(assuming it's close) will probably be just as deserving as a team such as Florida or Notre Dame. I just don't care for the most recent loser factor in the rankings. Yeah, maybe it should play a role, but not as much as it does.

I guess I agree about the rematch, unless the game is a great one.

Exactly. Unless it's a great game - say USC/NDish from last year then a rematch might be palatable. But I'm not a fan of a rematch if one team handles the other. I want to see how each of those teams fare outside of their Big Ten bubble in the Bowl game.

[utvolzac]

That and the preseason ranking.

It sucks because teams like WVU and Rutgers don't have too much of a chance, even if they run the table, to be in the NC game. All because of preseason rankings and perception.

I did enjoy that game last night, a lot of emotion. I think Rutgers D was most impressive, IMO. They had a ton of blitzes and did well backing each other up. I was very impressed with the fact that after they gave up a couple big plays, they still came after the football. Very nice to see.

Nobody from the Big East deserves to go to the National Championship game, undefeated or not. The average record of teams Rutgers/Louisville/WVU played averages out to about 4-7. Their schedules are a joke.

It has nothing to do with pre-season ranking or historical bias, Big East teams just have not EARNED it. If you want to play for a championship and your in a weak conference like the Big East, you better have one hell of a challenging out of conference schedule. Beating Illinois or UNC (BCS conference bottom dwellers) isn't going to cut it. You need some quality wins over other BCS powerhouses.

[utvolzac]

Well, lets say USC plays OSU in the title game and wins.

Now, let's also say Rutgers wins the rest of their games, including a BCS game...Perhaps you see a shared title?


Never.

If Auburn didn't get a piece of a shared title in '04, after going undefeated in the SEC (which is almost impossible these days), theres no way Rutgers is going to get a share.

[utvolzac]

Well the loser of this game(assuming it's close) will probably be just as deserving as a team such as Florida or Notre Dame. I just don't care for the most recent loser factor in the rankings. Yeah, maybe it should play a role, but not as much as it does.

I don't see why the loser of the OSU/Mich game is deserving of anything, much less a possible rematch for the national title.

Assuming Arkansas & Florida run the table and meet in the SEC championship game with 1 loss, I'd argue the winner should be the front runner for the National Championship spot and the loser should get consideration for an at large BCS bid. Based on the fact that they play an extra game, plus it's the two top teams in the conference at that.

Big 10/Pac 10 need to step up and play a conference championship like the SEC/Big12/ACC. Not having to play for a conference championship game is extemely unfair, IMO.

Arkanasas/Florida could finish the regular season as a 1 loss team and have to play each other in a pre-post season game, and the loser gets punished even though they would have had the same record as Mich/OSU had it not been for an extra game.

I've always felt either everyone should play a conference championship game or no one does.

[CrimsonTribe]

I don't see why the loser of the OSU/Mich game is deserving of anything, much less a possible rematch for the national title.

Assuming Arkansas & Florida run the table and meet in the SEC championship game with 1 loss, I'd argue the winner should be the front runner for the National Championship spot and the loser should get consideration for an at large BCS bid. Based on the fact that they play an extra game, plus it's the two top teams in the conference at that.

Big 10/Pac 10 need to step up and play a conference championship like the SEC/Big12/ACC. Not having to play for a conference championship game is extemely unfair, IMO.

Arkanasas/Florida could finish the regular season as a 1 loss team and have to play each other in a pre-post season game, and the loser gets punished even though they would have had the same record as Mich/OSU had it not been for an extra game.

I've always felt either everyone should play a conference championship game or no one does.

While you may be a Vol, I agree w/ you here.

I also think there is a big ABC/ESPN bias against the SEC, but I won't get into conspiracy theories now.

[beaner]

While you may be a Vol, I agree w/ you here.

I also think there is a big ABC/ESPN bias against the SEC, but I won't get into conspiracy theories now.
CBS has the contract for the SEC, there's no bias, just maybe less coverage because of that.

[beaner]

Although my bet is they'll lose to Cincinnati next week.
My first correct prediction !!!

[mweb]

I don't see why the loser of the OSU/Mich game is deserving of anything, much less a possible rematch for the national title.

Assuming Arkansas & Florida run the table and meet in the SEC championship game with 1 loss, I'd argue the winner should be the front runner for the National Championship spot and the loser should get consideration for an at large BCS bid. Based on the fact that they play an extra game, plus it's the two top teams in the conference at that.

Big 10/Pac 10 need to step up and play a conference championship like the SEC/Big12/ACC. Not having to play for a conference championship game is extemely unfair, IMO.

Arkanasas/Florida could finish the regular season as a 1 loss team and have to play each other in a pre-post season game, and the loser gets punished even though they would have had the same record as Mich/OSU had it not been for an extra game.

I've always felt either everyone should play a conference championship game or no one does.

If USC wins out, I don't see how you can put Arkansas above them in the title game, don't even see an arguement for it. USC went to Arkansas and beat them 50-14! And it's not like USC has played a cream puff schedule with Ark, Nebraska, Cal, and ND on their schedule along with the rest of the PAC-10. BTW, Florida hasn't played that tough of a schedule considering they're in the SEC, and they haven't been too convincing either.

Concerning your second statement which I bolded, the only reasons those conferences play a conference title game is money and the fact that they can't play every team during the regular season. Blame those conferences for any unfairness.

[mweb]

My first correct prediction !!!

Great call.

Now it will be interesting to see where Michigan is ranked tommorow in the BCS. I wouldn't be shocked if their still #2. Will either be them or USC. Even if Michigan falls to 3rd or 4th, they have a decent shot at getting back to #2 with USC still having two rivalry games with ND and at UCLA, and Florida still having to play FSU and the SEC title game. I'd be very surprised if Arkansas or ND is above Michigan tommorow.

[beaner]

If USC wins out, I don't see how you can put Arkansas above them in the title game, don't even see an arguement for it. USC went to Arkansas and beat them 50-14! And it's not like USC has played a cream puff schedule with Ark, Nebraska, Cal, and ND on their schedule along with the rest of the PAC-10. BTW, Florida hasn't played that tough of a schedule considering they're in the SEC, and they haven't been too convincing either.

Concerning your second statement which I bolded, the only reasons those conferences play a conference title game is money and the fact that they can't play every team during the regular season. Blame those conferences for any unfairness.
I say Michigan and Ohio State should play again, but if not I agree with you. USC clearly deserves it assuming they beat the terribly overrated Notre Dame team, and UCLA. They didnt look very good tonight,but found a way.

[beaner]

Great call.

Now it will be interesting to see where Michigan is ranked tommorow in the BCS. I wouldn't be shocked if their still #2. Will either be them or USC. Even if Michigan falls to 3rd or 4th, they have a decent shot at getting back to #2 with USC still having two rivalry games with ND and at UCLA, and Florida still having to play FSU and the SEC title game. I'd be very surprised if Arkansas or ND is above Michigan tommorow.
Thanks, and Thank God we dont have to hear any more about the Big East. I think Michigan will still be #2, but it'll be tough to hold off USC with the two games you mentioned still to come. Even though I think Notre Dame isnt in the same class as any of these teams.

[Baroquen131]

Yep - good call with the Rutgers loss.

The craziness with the BCS is just pathetic. They really need to get their act together and figure out a playoff system. Go ahead and use the bowls, and rotate the title game if necessary - keep the corporations happy.

Why couldn't you take the conference winners and a number of "at-large" bids and give everyone a shot at the national championship? I'm missing the flaw in this idea. /shrug

Good games today though.

[beaner]

Yep - good call with the Rutgers loss.

The craziness with the BCS is just pathetic. They really need to get their act together and figure out a playoff system. Go ahead and use the bowls, and rotate the title game if necessary - keep the corporations happy.

Why couldn't you take the conference winners and a number of "at-large" bids and give everyone a shot at the national championship? I'm missing the flaw in this idea. /shrug

Good games today though.
It really is crazy...There are a lot of really good teams out there and a lot of overrated ones as well. These would be weeded out with a playoff system, yet at the same time give a chance to a really good team that had a few fluke losses a chance to win a title.

[mweb]

Yep - good call with the Rutgers loss.

The craziness with the BCS is just pathetic. They really need to get their act together and figure out a playoff system. Go ahead and use the bowls, and rotate the title game if necessary - keep the corporations happy.

Why couldn't you take the conference winners and a number of "at-large" bids and give everyone a shot at the national championship? I'm missing the flaw in this idea. /shrug

Good games today though.

One of the announcers of the OSU-Michigan game made an incredibly stupid comment on why the playoff system would be bad for college football. He said that there would be no reason for the coaches not to rest their star players for that game.:eek: There is no way in hell the star players would get rested in a OSU-UM game, especially considering they'd have at least 3 weeks off before the playoffs start.

BTW, concerning playoffs, I think anymore than 8 teams would be a huge mistake, and would prefer to keep it at 4 teams or maybe 6 at the most with the top 2 teams getting a bye. I think it's pretty rare to have more than 4 teams with a legit right to play for the title, and it's probably never more than 6.

[mweb]

It really is crazy...There are a lot of really good teams out there and a lot of overrated ones as well. These would be weeded out with a playoff system, yet at the same time give a chance to a really good team that had a few fluke losses a chance to win a title.

I don't think that team should have a chance to play for the title. The regular season has to retain great importance imo, and letting a team compete for the title who lost 3 games greatly takes away from that importance.

[beaner]

One of the announcers of the OSU-Michigan game made an incredibly stupid comment on why the playoff system would be bad for college football. He said that there would be no reason for the coaches not to rest their star players for that game.:eek: There is no way in hell the star players would get rested in a OSU-UM game, especially considering they'd have at least 3 weeks off before the playoffs start.

BTW, concerning playoffs, I think anymore than 8 teams would be a huge mistake, and would prefer to keep it at 4 teams or maybe 6 at the most with the top 2 teams getting a bye. I think it's pretty rare to have more than 4 teams with a legit right to play for the title, and it's probably never more than 6.
I heard that, it was Bob Davie and you're right, it made no sense.

I think there should be a sixteen team playoff, there certainly is enough time for it. My god, Ohio State and Michigan now get 6 weeks off.

[beaner]

I don't think that team should have a chance to play for the title. The regular season has to retain great importance imo, and letting a team compete for the title who lost 3 games greatly takes away from that importance.
I hear you, but a Team like Texas or Auburn who are certainly talented enough should get a chance to redeem a few tough losses early in the season. Texas lost last weekend actually, but you see my point.

[mweb]

I hear you, but a Team like Texas or Auburn who are certainly talented enough should get a chance to redeem a few tough losses early in the season. Texas lost last weekend actually, but you see my point.

I don't think so unless you want to see the importance of the regular season greatly diminished. Auburn has also lost recently.

[CrimsonTribe]

CBS has the contract for the SEC, there's no bias, just maybe less coverage because of that.

I know that CBS has the SEC coverage, which is why there is a bias. If you'll notice, it's a OSU/Michigan/USC/Notre Dame lovefest every day on ESPN while they write the whole SEC off for not playing tough non-conference games.

[CrimsonTribe]

If USC wins out, I don't see how you can put Arkansas above them in the title game, don't even see an arguement for it. USC went to Arkansas and beat them 50-14! And it's not like USC has played a cream puff schedule with Ark, Nebraska, Cal, and ND on their schedule along with the rest of the PAC-10. BTW, Florida hasn't played that tough of a schedule considering they're in the SEC, and they haven't been too convincing either.

Concerning your second statement which I bolded, the only reasons those conferences play a conference title game is money and the fact that they can't play every team during the regular season. Blame those conferences for any unfairness.

Here's the argument for it. USC lost to Oregon State. Not exactly a power. A fairly decent team in the Pac-10, but nothing really to speak of. Arkansas lost to USC, who we all agree here is a top 10 team. This loss came in the first game of the season, when their star player was injured and basically being used as a decoy and before they had completely implemented their offense. Now, Arkansas is a much stronger team who has taken apart a couple of top 15 teams and run the table in the SEC so far. USC has lost to OREGON STATE and didn't look so good last night against Cal. Either way, Arkansas still has to beat LSU and Florida and USC has to beat Notre Dame and UCLA. Neither a foregone conclusion, but I'd also say that Arkansas has a tougher road from here on out.

[geschinger]

I know that CBS has the SEC coverage, which is why there is a bias. If you'll notice, it's a OSU/Michigan/USC/Notre Dame lovefest every day on ESPN while they write the whole SEC off for not playing tough non-conference games.

Which is a good thing. It might be having an impact... Teams like Auburn have added a WVU to their schedule for future years so maybe 5 years from now that won't be an issue.

[CrimsonTribe]

Which is a good thing. It might be having an impact... Teams like Auburn have added a WVU to their schedule for future years so maybe 5 years from now that won't be an issue.

My point is that it shouldn't be an issue now. They already have schedules that are as tough as most teams in the nation w/o adding tough non-conference games.

[geschinger]

My point is that it shouldn't be an issue now. They already have schedules that are as tough as most teams in the nation w/o adding tough non-conference games.

It is an issue though that should be talked about. While making it through conference play can be extremly difficult if you are a Florida and your schedule hits all the good teams in the SEC, it's also possible to be in the SEC and avoid some of the better teams.

Arkansas may beat LSU and UF to end the year which might allow them to leapfrog some other teams, but the fact of the matter is that they've had two impressive wins to this point in the season. They might deserve to be higher in the rankings right now if they had beaten a decent OOC team this year.

If you look at the SEC teams in the SOS calculations they are all hurt by playing so few half way decent OOC games. I understand the SEC schedule is tough, but it isn't so tough that you have to make up for it with cupcakes for 25-30% of the schedule.

[mweb]

Here's the argument for it. USC lost to Oregon State. Not exactly a power. A fairly decent team in the Pac-10, but nothing really to speak of. Arkansas lost to USC, who we all agree here is a top 10 team. This loss came in the first game of the season, when their star player was injured and basically being used as a decoy and before they had completely implemented their offense. Now, Arkansas is a much stronger team who has taken apart a couple of top 15 teams and run the table in the SEC so far. USC has lost to OREGON STATE and didn't look so good last night against Cal. Either way, Arkansas still has to beat LSU and Florida and USC has to beat Notre Dame and UCLA. Neither a foregone conclusion, but I'd also say that Arkansas has a tougher road from here on out.

I don't really care that Arkansas has gotten better or if a player was used as a decoy, if you lose at home 50-14, you don't deserve to be put in a title game ahead of the team you lost to if both teams only have 1 loss and have played tough schedules. You just can't justify that. How would you feel if you were a player on USC if Arkansas was chosen over you to play in the title game? Now how would you feel if you were an Arkansas player and USC got chosen over you? The answers should be quite different if you go beyond the obvious dissapointment. Your talking about media bias against the SEC, well that may be so, but only someone biased towards the SEC can say Arkansas should be in the title game over USC imo.

[mweb]

It is an issue though that should be talked about. While making it through conference play can be extremly difficult if you are a Florida and your schedule hits all the good teams in the SEC, it's also possible to be in the SEC and avoid some of the better teams.

Arkansas may beat LSU and UF to end the year which might allow them to leapfrog some other teams, but the fact of the matter is that they've had two impressive wins to this point in the season. They might deserve to be higher in the rankings right now if they had beaten a decent OOC team this year.

If you look at the SEC teams in the SOS calculations they are all hurt by playing so few half way decent OOC games. I understand the SEC schedule is tough, but it isn't so tough that you have to make up for it with cupcakes for 25-30% of the schedule.

Yeah, good points. The PAC-10 isn't as good as the SEC, but I think USC makes up for that by playing Nebraska, ND, and at Arkansas.

[CrimsonTribe]

I don't really care that Arkansas has gotten better or if a player was used as a decoy, if you lose at home 50-14, you don't deserve to be put in a title game ahead of the team you lost to if both teams only have 1 loss and have played tough schedules. You just can't justify that. How would you feel if you were a player on USC if Arkansas was chosen over you to play in the title game? Now how would you feel if you were an Arkansas player and USC got chosen over you? The answers should be quite different if you go beyond the obvious dissapointment. Your talking about media bias against the SEC, well that may be so, but only someone biased towards the SEC can say Arkansas should be in the title game over USC imo.

Look, I can see where you are coming from, but to say that an argument can't be made for Arkansas over USC is just ignorant.

And if I was a player on USC I'd feel like we shouldn't have lost to Oregon State. As far as I'm concerned, a loss to a team of that caliber should knock you out of contention when the other one loss teams all have their lone loss coming against elite teams.

[CrimsonTribe]

It is an issue though that should be talked about. While making it through conference play can be extremly difficult if you are a Florida and your schedule hits all the good teams in the SEC, it's also possible to be in the SEC and avoid some of the better teams.

Arkansas may beat LSU and UF to end the year which might allow them to leapfrog some other teams, but the fact of the matter is that they've had two impressive wins to this point in the season. They might deserve to be higher in the rankings right now if they had beaten a decent OOC team this year.

If you look at the SEC teams in the SOS calculations they are all hurt by playing so few half way decent OOC games. I understand the SEC schedule is tough, but it isn't so tough that you have to make up for it with cupcakes for 25-30% of the schedule.

I agree that it would definitely help SEC teams to schedule a tough OOC game or two, but it's already ridiculous to run the table in the SEC anyway. Scheduling tough OOC competition would make it basically impossible to end w/ one loss or go undefeated and therefore compete for the national championship. USC gets to run through all the Pac-10 crap out there and then save up for 2-3 tough games per year.

Also, a much smaller point. Scheduling OOC games is pretty variable. You have to schedule in advance and you don't know what you are going to be getting when the game finally comes around. Take, for instance, next year when Alabama plays Florida State. Looked like a tough non-conference game for both when it was scheduled, but how does it look now?

[beaner]

I know that CBS has the SEC coverage, which is why there is a bias. If you'll notice, it's a OSU/Michigan/USC/Notre Dame lovefest every day on ESPN while they write the whole SEC off for not playing tough non-conference games.
I know, but i really feel it's because those games are on ABC/ESPN more so than any bias. Anyone that doesn't think that the SEC has the best College football week in and week out are mistaken.

[beaner]

Does anyone agree with me about Notre Dame being overrated? They've played how many great teams in 2006? Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl, and Michigan earlier in the year, they got crushed in both. They did have nice wins over Army and North Carolina though. Cant wait to see USC destroy them and then whoever they play in a Bowl Game. When was their last Bowl win anyway?

[geschinger]

I agree that it would definitely help SEC teams to schedule a tough OOC game or two, but it's already ridiculous to run the table in the SEC anyway. Scheduling tough OOC competition would make it basically impossible to end w/ one loss or go undefeated and therefore compete for the national championship. USC gets to run through all the Pac-10 crap out there and then save up for 2-3 tough games per year.

Also, a much smaller point. Scheduling OOC games is pretty variable. You have to schedule in advance and you don't know what you are going to be getting when the game finally comes around. Take, for instance, next year when Alabama plays Florida State. Looked like a tough non-conference game for both when it was scheduled, but how does it look now?

No doubt about it, it's tough being in the SEC. But again, not tough enough that it required 3 or 4 cupcakes to balance things out. Schedule two good OOC games a year and only 2 of the Division I-AA gimmies and it won't be such an issue. 8 or 9 games into a season we shouldn't be hearing a stat like Vandebilt's win over Duke being the only SEC road win against a BCS conference. As I mentioned in another post, some teams like Auburn are taking the hint and scheduling better OOC games and the rest of the SEC should follow that lead. It's much better for college football as well as the SEC teams.

There is a difference between scheduling a decent team who has an off year and scheduling teams like Western Carolina, SE MO State, Louisiana Monroe, and teams like that.

Off-topic... FSU is starting a ton of talented true freshman and taking their knocks. I wouldn't expect them to get good again in a hurry. Alabama will deserve a lot of credit for scheduling that game.

[BigSteve]

I agree that it would definitely help SEC teams to schedule a tough OOC game or two, but it's already ridiculous to run the table in the SEC anyway. Scheduling tough OOC competition would make it basically impossible to end w/ one loss or go undefeated and therefore compete for the national championship. USC gets to run through all the Pac-10 crap out there and then save up for 2-3 tough games per year.

Also, a much smaller point. Scheduling OOC games is pretty variable. You have to schedule in advance and you don't know what you are going to be getting when the game finally comes around. Take, for instance, next year when Alabama plays Florida State. Looked like a tough non-conference game for both when it was scheduled, but how does it look now?

Even with all of the "crap" in the Pac-10 USC has the 6th rated schedule and Arkansas has the 69th rated schedule. By the sagarin ratings, USC is 3rd and Arkansas is 73rd. It isn't like Arkansas didn't play more than their share of "crap" both in conference (Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt) and out of conference (Southeast Missouri State, and Utah State and Louisiana-Monroe who are a combined 3-18 in extremely poor conferences).

Yes, you can't always tell who will be good a few years down the road when you schedule non conference games, but everyone would have expected Nebraska, Arkansas, and Notre Dame to all be solid, bowl caliber teams (at least) in any given year, and no one would have expected a schedule with a I-AA team and two teams who never even make bowl games to be competitive. It isn't like Arkansas loaded up on traditional powers who happened to be down this year or USC played surpisingly good teams like Rutgers or Wake Forest.

Assuming both win out, I can't see the case for Arkansas over USC. Both will be one loss teams and USC will have played the tougher schedule and convincingly won the head to head matchup. Right now, assuming they win next week, I would want to see tOSU vs USC in the Title Game.

[mweb]

Look, I can see where you are coming from, but to say that an argument can't be made for Arkansas over USC is just ignorant.

And if I was a player on USC I'd feel like we shouldn't have lost to Oregon State. As far as I'm concerned, a loss to a team of that caliber should knock you out of contention when the other one loss teams all have their lone loss coming against elite teams.

There is no argument for Arkansas over USC, if you want to call it ignorant, that's fine, but there is still no argument for it. Big Steve backs that up with facts besides the obvious 50-14 win. And yeah, you'd feel like you shouldn't have lost to OSU, but I guarantee you'd have a lot of other feelings if a team that you beat 50-14 in their place was playing for the national championship instead of you.

[mweb]

Does anyone agree with me about Notre Dame being overrated? They've played how many great teams in 2006? Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl, and Michigan earlier in the year, they got crushed in both. They did have nice wins over Army and North Carolina though. Cant wait to see USC destroy them and then whoever they play in a Bowl Game. When was their last Bowl win anyway?

Yeah, I agree that their overrated. In fact their overrated almost every year.

[mweb]

I agree that it would definitely help SEC teams to schedule a tough OOC game or two, but it's already ridiculous to run the table in the SEC anyway. Scheduling tough OOC competition would make it basically impossible to end w/ one loss or go undefeated and therefore compete for the national championship. USC gets to run through all the Pac-10 crap out there and then save up for 2-3 tough games per year.

Also, a much smaller point. Scheduling OOC games is pretty variable. You have to schedule in advance and you don't know what you are going to be getting when the game finally comes around. Take, for instance, next year when Alabama plays Florida State. Looked like a tough non-conference game for both when it was scheduled, but how does it look now?

As I said before, the PAC-10 is not as good as the SEC, but it's certainly not crap, and to say so is just being ignorant. As BigSteve showed, USC has played a tougher schedule than Arkansas has. And they had 3 tough games in out of conference alone, so I would say they would have played at least 6-7 tough games this year.

And as Gesh pointed out, most of these out of conference games scheduled by Arkansas and UF have nothing to do with OOC games being pretty variable. But I agree that comes into play with some teams, just not for Arkansas or UF except for FSU which will probably still be a tough game for them.

[beaner]

Yeah, I agree that their overrated. In fact their overrated almost every year.
They are, but this year seems to bother me more than others. There are other teams that deserve to be mentioned as "Elite" teams, Notre Dame is not one of them.

[CrimsonTribe]

There is no argument for Arkansas over USC, if you want to call it ignorant, that's fine, but there is still no argument for it. Big Steve backs that up with facts besides the obvious 50-14 win. And yeah, you'd feel like you shouldn't have lost to OSU, but I guarantee you'd have a lot of other feelings if a team that you beat 50-14 in their place was playing for the national championship instead of you.

I think the point I am trying to make here is that USC's victory over Arkansas in the first game of the season should not be dispositive in determining whether they go to the National Championship game over Arkansas (it should be given a little weight but not be a determining factor). On top of this, early season losses do not and should not carry as much weight as late season losses b/c the teams are so different by the end of the year.

The way I think of it is this: Arkansas lost to elite team A at the beginning of the season. Since then they have become an elite team and had several quality wins (assuming they beat LSU and Florida which is no easy feat). USC lost to mediocre team B somewhere after midseason, but have had several quality wins (assuming they beat Notre Dame and UCLA, although I don't consider UCLA a tough win though). It just so happens that USC is elite team A; give them some credit for that, but take everything else into account too (including strength of schedule which USC has the advantage in).

Further, no one has addressed who USC lost to. They lost to a very mediocre Oregon State team. Arkansas lost to USC; Florida lost to Auburn; Michigan lost to Ohio State. This is a BIG, if not the BIGGEST, point and as far as I'm concerned it should knock USC down quite a bit. Also, that by the end of the season, both Arkansas and Florida will have played 13 games, USC will have played 12, and Michigan 12.

Remember, I'm not arguing that Arkansas should be in the National Championship game over other one loss teams, but rather that there is an argument (and a good one) that they should make it.

[mweb]

Sorry, but there's not. SEC fans seem to be the most biased fans in the country. You can sucessfully argue Michigan over USC, UF over USC(although UF is lucky to only have one loss and I'm not that impressed by them), but not Arkansas. Losing at home 50-14 to a team that is at least as qualified as you are to play for the title absolutely eliminates you from the discussion. Losing that badly at home also hurts them against teams like UM and UF.

[CrimsonTribe]

Sorry, but there's not. SEC fans seem to be the most biased fans in the country. You can sucessfully argue Michigan over USC, UF over USC(although UF is lucky to only have one loss and I'm not that impressed by them), but not Arkansas. Losing at home 50-14 to a team that is at least as qualified as you are to play for the title absolutely eliminates you from the discussion. Losing that badly at home also hurts them against teams like UM and UF.

Fine, keep clinging to that point and ignore the rest.

[Mackus]

I don't think when you lose should matter.

The two best teams overall should play for the championship. I think its very obvious that Ohio St and Michigan are the two best teams in the country. OSU is obviously the best team in the country, nobody doubts that. Well Michigan played them to within 3 points on the road. That loss shouldn't hurt them at all, and judging by the polls, the coaches / voters agree with that.

If both OSU and Michigan win out the rest of the way, nobody else in the country has any claim to play in the championship game, IMO. If its not a rematch for the title, then it'll be a bogus game that doesn't mean anything.

College Football needs to get a damn playoff system. All this posturing and rankings and BCS nonsense is just stupid. I know the controversy gets people talking about football, but people talk about the NCAA tournament nonstop as well. If they just smarted up and went to a 8 team playoff, then the winner would actually deserve to call themselves national champions, which doesn't happen every year under the current system.

[mweb]

Fine, keep clinging to that point and ignore the rest.

How am I ignoring the rest? If anything, you're ignoring the rest. And it's not like I'm clinging to a small point, that point is enough for the game, set, and match alone.

But every point favors USC except the fact that they lost to a team that isn't that good. Heads up favors USC in a huge way, quality wins favors USC(will probably be about even if both win out), strength of schedule favors USC, what the teams have done in the recent past favors USC, team talent favors USC imo, how people rate them favors USC, and how the computer ranks them favors USC.

So who's clinging to one point and ignoring the rest again? And you can't even say who they lost to favors Arkansas when debating Arkansas vs USC. You could use that USC loss better(it would still be hard based on the score and place of the game) if you were debating against another team.

[mweb]

I don't think when you lose should matter.

The two best teams overall should play for the championship. I think its very obvious that Ohio St and Michigan are the two best teams in the country. OSU is obviously the best team in the country, nobody doubts that. Well Michigan played them to within 3 points on the road. That loss shouldn't hurt them at all, and judging by the polls, the coaches / voters agree with that.

If both OSU and Michigan win out the rest of the way, nobody else in the country has any claim to play in the championship game, IMO. If its not a rematch for the title, then it'll be a bogus game that doesn't mean anything.

College Football needs to get a damn playoff system. All this posturing and rankings and BCS nonsense is just stupid. I know the controversy gets people talking about football, but people talk about the NCAA tournament nonstop as well. If they just smarted up and went to a 8 team playoff, then the winner would actually deserve to call themselves national champions, which doesn't happen every year under the current system.

I agree that when the loss occurs shouldn't make much of a difference. However I disagree that Michigan is obviously one of the top 2 teams. They may be, but if USC hammers ND and UCLA, I think a good case could be made for USC being the better team.

BTW, Ohio State and UM are done with their regular seasons.

[Mackus]

BTW, Ohio State and UM are done with their regular seasons.
Well then they should have a good chance at winning out.

[CrimsonTribe]

How am I ignoring the rest? If anything, you're ignoring the rest. And it's not like I'm clinging to a small point, that point is enough for the game, set, and match alone.

But every point favors USC except the fact that they lost to a team that isn't that good. Heads up favors USC in a huge way, quality wins favors USC(will probably be about even if both win out), strength of schedule favors USC, what the teams have done in the recent past favors USC, team talent favors USC imo, how people rate them favors USC, and how the computer ranks them favors USC.

So who's clinging to one point and ignoring the rest again? And you can't even say who they lost to favors Arkansas when debating Arkansas vs USC. You could use that USC loss better(it would still be hard based on the score and place of the game) if you were debating against another team.

OK, I'm just going to agree with you that if USC and Arkansas both win out, USC will definitely be above Arkansas. I'm pretty sure there's no question about that and it is largely, if not completely, based on the fact that USC beat Arkansas 10 games ago when Arkansas was a completely different team. That doesn't mean I agree with it or that Arkansas does not have a very strong and compelling argument to be included in the NC game if they win out.

Also, when taking strength of schedule into account, I looked at the Sagarin ratings and they only take into account games played up to this point so I'm sure that Arkansas' schedule will shoot up after they play two top ten teams.

[mweb]

OK, I'm just going to agree with you that if USC and Arkansas both win out, USC will definitely be above Arkansas. I'm pretty sure there's no question about that and it is largely, if not completely, based on the fact that USC beat Arkansas 10 games ago when Arkansas was a completely different team. That doesn't mean I agree with it or that Arkansas does not have a very strong and compelling argument to be included in the NC game if they win out.

Also, when taking strength of schedule into account, I looked at the Sagarin ratings and they only take into account games played up to this point so I'm sure that Arkansas' schedule will shoot up after they play two top ten teams.

Most teams improve during the season including USC who had a QB and RB getting their first start that day replacing two Heisman winners. Just because a team has improved a lot doesn't take away significance from the beginning of the season.

And yeah, their strength of schedule will go up, but I doubt it will pass USC's.

Well I think you're in a huge minority in thinking they have a very strong and compelling argument, well maybe some Arkansas fans agree. But I haven't heard or read one person in the media agree with you, although I'm sure there are a few.

[mweb]

Well now there absolutely is not an argument for Arkansas.:D

[Sports Guy]

Well now there absolutely is not an argument for Arkansas.:D
Not that they will play in the championship game but LSU may be one of the 2 best teams in the country.

[CrimsonTribe]

Well now there absolutely is not an argument for Arkansas.:D

Got that right.