O's Offer Girardi Job

[Birds08]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2909554

[lostinlife28]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2909554

Here's to hoping for a quick answer!

[JTrea81]

Now will he take it as all our insiders are suggesting...

[msporter4]

I hope Frank didn't get his hopes up.

[blueberryale77]

Darn, just when I was starting to like Dave Trembley. :D I guess we won't get to see even one Sunday of Miggy DHing against his will. :(

And just as I talk about Miggy DHing he makes another error that doesn't get scored as one. That force at second would have been easy if he hadn't booted the ball. :002_smad:

[sector7g]

Here's to hoping for a quick answer!

Here's hoping he isn't watching the current game!

[pactman12]

God I really hope we can get him.

He is exactly what we need. Now we need to begin the interviews for a new bullpen.

[bryanman8]

I hope for Girardi's sake he stays away from this job. He's a good manager and should stick around and wait for a good opening. He can't do anything with this team. I hope we don't get Girardi and continue our delusions of somehow contending either this year or next. We NEED to rebuild! Girardi doesn't change that, it just makes us think even more that we don't!

[JTrea81]

I hope for Girardi's sake he stays away from this job. He's a good manager and should stick around and wait for a good opening. He can't do anything with this team. I hope we don't get Girardi and continue our delusions of somehow contending either this year or next. We NEED to rebuild! Girardi doesn't change that, it just makes us think even more that we don't!

Why don't you want us to have a good manager? I have to question whether you are a true fan or not with those remarks.

[Lt Melmo]

We didn't even interview Johnson?

[bej6789]

someone please tell me he's going to accept... this would finally be a move that would help the Orioles. I hope this works out!

[Birds08]

My impression (which is probably overly optimistic) is that hiring a guy like Girardi, who has had success with a young team, means that we are more likely to goa rebuilding root. I could definitely be wrong though (and likely am).

[Rockbird]

"They have a process that they need to get through, and we'll see what happens," Girardi told The Baltimore Sun after the interview. "They basically told me that they wanted to do it sooner or later, but it is a process. It was a good meeting. I am not sure what their timetable is."

Oh, God, they've already got to him! :eek:

[bryanman8]

Why don't you want us to have a good manager? I have to question whether you are a true fan or not with those remarks.
LOL- do you really think a "good" manager can make us go from 12-under to playoff contention in the toughest division in baseball? Open your eyes! This team stinks!

Perlozzo was a total and complete moron. Great. I'm glad he's gone. Girardi is intelligent but I'm not a big fan of being a complete jerk to the owner no matter how much they deserve it. Still, he could maybe make this team hover around .500 the next few years. Roberts stays on this team and doesn't win until he's too old. Bedard runs through his full prime and trade potential until he's just mediocre and we still haven't won. Tejada continues to regress until we're not even able to trade him for anything; maybe he just leaves as an FA after another .500 season. Ramon will be gone soon...

This team has assets. If dealt when they should be, this could be a good team someday. If Mora, Gibbons, Bruce Chen were dealt when they should have been, this team could have been further on the way to rebuilding, same with dealing Tejada last year. A huge part of this game is dealing players at their peak values before they're close to useless for you.

Now, the following players should be dealt: Tejada, Mora, Roberts, Bedard, Ray, Trachsel, Guthrie...all of them could fetch value for this team that'll bring us closer to winning in the future than they will to us being .500 now.

I think Girardi is a good person and a good manager. If I was his advisor, I would be telling him to steer far away from this joke of an organization.

I'm a fan. Not a butt-kisser. The FO is a joke, the current plan is a joke, the owner is a joke, half the roster is a joke.

Yes, this organization does have potential. We have great pitching prospects, a couple of solid hitters down there, a great fanbase and city and revenue potential. If we hire Girardi to a ten-year-deal and he agrees to stick around through rebuilding while we hire Chris Antonetti or David Forst or Paul DePodesta or someone to be the GM, I'd be the happiest guy in the world. But in it's current state, we're probably hiring Girardi to make a run at winning something either this year or the next. No rebuilding. No trading Tejada, Bedard, Roberts. Nothing.

That would be the biggest mistake possible.

[ELC]

I hope for Girardi's sake he stays away from this job. He's a good manager and should stick around and wait for a good opening. He can't do anything with this team. I hope we don't get Girardi and continue our delusions of somehow contending either this year or next. We NEED to rebuild! Girardi doesn't change that, it just makes us think even more that we don't!

I don't see it like that necessarily. Actually having Girardi here might help make the case to Angelos that blowing it up and getting younger is the best way to go. They can point to the success Florida had with that plan and we would have the manager that, whether deserved or not, was given a lot of credit for it. Angelos trusts guys with track records.

[TyCobb]

Trading Bedard or Guts would be beyond stupid.

[bryanman8]

Trading Bedard or Guts would be beyond stupid.
Bedard's getting up there in age. If you can trade him for a 24-year-old version of himself, why not? It's the same deal with Roberts.

Guthrie is pitching way over his head. A smart team would realize that he's a career minor-leaguer who may have transformed into a solid 4-5 starter but is currently pitching like a young future ace and ship him off for a top prospect. Obviously, we won't.

[TyCobb]

Bedard's getting up there in age. If you can trade him for a 24-year-old version of himself, why not? It's the same deal with Roberts.

Guthrie is pitching way over his head. A smart team would realize that he's a career minor-leaguer who may have transformed into a solid 4-5 starter but is currently pitching like a young future ace and ship him off for a top prospect. Obviously, we won't.

I would love to trade Bedard for a younger version but that is not going to happen. Same thing with Guts. Nobody is going to give up fair value for these guys so there is not point in trading them.

I have no problems with trading Roberts, but Bedard, Cabrera, Guts and Loewen should be off limits.

[the_sandman77]

Bedard's getting up there in age. If you can trade him for a 24-year-old version of himself, why not? It's the same deal with Roberts.

Guthrie is pitching way over his head. A smart team would realize that he's a career minor-leaguer who may have transformed into a solid 4-5 starter but is currently pitching like a young future ace and ship him off for a top prospect. Obviously, we won't.

Why do you think this? He's 28 and maybe a late bloomer...what about a guy who actually succeeds??? Disgusting attitude in my opinion!

[bryanman8]

Why do you think this? He's 28 and maybe a late bloomer...what about a guy who actually succeeds??? Disgusting attitude in my opinion!
What? He's great, but pitchers often aren't as successful once they get on the wrong side of 30. And, Bedard could chose to leave in free agency relatively soon. Before he starts to regress and we get nothing for him as we continue to struggle to reach .500, why not trade him for something we can keep for a much longer time and actually use to win when this team is ready?

This team won't be ready to contend for 3-4 years, hate to break it to you. Meaning Tejada, Roberts, Hernandez, etc. will all be gone. Roberts will be 33, Bedard 31? Again, if you can get top prospects for them, you deal them.

[TyCobb]

What? He's great, but pitchers often aren't as successful once they get on the wrong side of 30. And, Bedard could chose to leave in free agency relatively soon. Before he starts to regress and we get nothing for him as we continue to struggle to reach .500, why not trade him for something we can keep for a much longer time and actually use to win when this team is ready?

This team won't be ready to contend for 3-4 years, hate to break it to you. Meaning Tejada, Roberts, Hernandez, etc. will all be gone. Roberts will be 33, Bedard 31? Again, if you can get top prospects for them, you deal them.

When has 31 become old? For a Pitcher who had Tommy John and didn't play HS ball isn't old in my book.

[LAOSfan]

Honestly, I don't understand some posters on here. They complain and complain that our farm system stinks and then when it produces a couple of very good major leaguers, they want to trade them for more prospects who may or may not pan out. I build around Bedard, Roberts and Markakis, among others. I'm not going to trade our only young proven assets. Bedard is 28! He could be good for another 8 years. Trade Tejada, Mora (if waives no trade), Cabrera, Ray, Baez, Payton, Trachsel, etc., but we CAN rebuild and keep the above mentioned players.

[bryanman8]

Why do you think this? He's 28 and maybe a late bloomer...what about a guy who actually succeeds??? Disgusting attitude in my opinion!
Oh, my bad. You're talking about Guthrie, aren't you?

Guthrie doesn't strike out enough guys for a guy who doesn't have great control and hasn't his whole career except for this year.

He's obviously a late bloomer, if he was like he was his whole career he wouldn't even be near the majors.

I like Guthrie. I like his work ethic and smarts. But his lack of K's and usual lack of control make me think he's not gonna be anything but a 4ish ERA pitcher. If anyone thinks he's really a 1 or 2 as he's pitching like now, you need to sell high.

[TyCobb]

I haven't looked at stats but don't pitchers generally increase there K/9 in their prime years?

[bryanman8]

Honestly, I don't understand some posters on here. They complain and complain that our farm system stinks and then when it produces a couple of very good major leaguers, they want to trade them for more prospects who may or may not pan out. I build around Bedard, Roberts and Markakis, among others. I'm not going to trade our only young proven assets. Bedard is 28! He could be good for another 8 years. Trade Tejada, Mora (if waives no trade), Cabrera, Ray, Baez, Payton, Trachsel, etc., but we CAN rebuild and keep the above mentioned players.
Brian Roberts is 30. This team is not close enough to contention to build around him. If we had done things right a while back and spent when we were ready to contend and not before and built up enough prospects to build around before then, Brian's career as an Oriole could have been filled with playoff births unlike the apathetic self he's become who clearly sees that, as great as he plays, this team won't win in his prime at all.

Bedard you might be able to build around. As every day goes by that we keep Tejada, Mora, Hernandez, etc., the less likely that becomes. People forget that our farm still stinks. Just because you have one great hitting prospect and another not even signed yet doesn't mean this system is anything good.

I agree with trading everyone you said except Baez (could his value get any lower), Cabrera (same situation, his potential remains much higher, take a risk and see if he returns to his high-K, GB self), and maybe Ray right now but I'd also deal him soon. I just don't have any faith in this FO to actually trade Tejada and all them to actually make us ready to win in Roberts' career. Bedard is a possibility; again, if we trade Tejada right now and hang low in the offseason and don't waste money on Hunter and all them, it's possible he can still be the anchor to our staff when we're ready to go out and spend and build around the core.

[bryanman8]

I haven't looked at stats but don't pitchers generally increase there K/9 in their prime years?
Guthrie's K/9 is 5.74 and he's pitching way over his head. The guy was a complete bust. Could he have just been a late bloomer and needed Mazzone? Sure, and I think he is a solid cheap young 4-5 starter. But again, GMs tend to overrate small sample sizes and misjudge pitchers based on ERA only. If anyone thinks he's a top 3 rotational pitcher, they'd probably give us prospects we could really build around. You turn Guthrie into one of the best buy-low sell-high deals of all time. You wait around until he's a 4-5 starter and everyone knows it; well, not that impressive.

[markpolis]

Guthrie's K/9 is 5.74 and he's pitching way over his head. The guy was a complete bust. Could he have just been a late bloomer and needed Mazzone? Sure, and I think he is a solid cheap young 4-5 starter. But again, GMs tend to overrate small sample sizes and misjudge pitchers based on ERA only. If anyone thinks he's a top 3 rotational pitcher, they'd probably give us prospects we could really build around. You turn Guthrie into one of the best buy-low sell-high deals of all time. You wait around until he's a 4-5 starter and everyone knows it; well, not that impressive.

Am I the only one who is glad school's out for the summer? :rolleyes:

[bryanman8]

Also need to be traded: Millar, Bradford, Walker, Payton, Huff, etc. Basically everyone on the team right now except Markakis. Get some hitting prospects in here asap. We can probably produce a future rotation just from our system. We need hitters at basically everything except RF, SS, and maybe catcher.

[JTrea81]

Getting back to the subject of this thread, it will be interesting to see if Girardi accepts so there will be a joint PC with Girardi and MacPhail, instead of one with just MacPhail.

[bryanman8]

Am I the only one who is glad school's out for the summer? :rolleyes:
Just like Bruce Chen pal. We'll talk. When Guthrie's back to being an after-thought league-average 4-5 starter and the opportunity to potentially get a team's top 5 prospect for him is gone, we'll talk.

The amount of blinded homers is ridiculous. We are the biggest joke in professional baseball right now. Do all of you just crave to see a winning season so bad that you've thrown away all hopes of challenging for the division again someday? My plan, or a similar variation of it, actually makes sense. Quit calling me not a true fan and trying to write me off as a psycho just like you did about Chen when I'm right again about a pitcher.

A smart team would deal Guthrie.

[LAOSfan]

Don't you thing other GM's would have the same reservations about Guthrie that you have? Do you honestly think they would give up a top 5 prospect for him?

[Chollie Eckman]

I hope you're wrong. Girardi would be a mistake.

[bryanman8]

Don't you thing other GM's would have the same reservations about Guthrie that you have? Do you honestly think they would give up a top 5 prospect for him?
No, a lot of GMs think just like a lot of you do--that Guthrie was just a "late bloomer" who's now a legit 2 starter.

There are a lot of dumb GMs out there. Yes, I think we could get a very good prospect for a guy I think is around a 5 starter. That's more valuable to us than him.

[LA2]

Girardi had one season of limited success and too many people act like he'll save the franchise. I think we're rushing blindly into this.

[Delduck]

Girardi had one season of limited success and too many people act like he'll save the franchise. I think we're rushing blindly into this.

My 1st choice would be Davey, but I also like Girardi, at least his style. I believe this team needs a DI like Sam said.

[Dr. FLK]

I hope for Girardi's sake he stays away from this job. He's a good manager and should stick around and wait for a good opening. He can't do anything with this team. I hope we don't get Girardi and continue our delusions of somehow contending either this year or next. We NEED to rebuild! Girardi doesn't change that, it just makes us think even more that we don't!

Why are "rebuilding" and "hiring a good manager" mutually exclusive events?

[MPK76]

According to Roch,

ESPN is reporting that the Orioles have offered Joe Girardi the managerial job, but a high-ranking Orioles official said that's inaccurate.

Maybe tomorrow.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/roch/blog/

[geschinger]

Girardi had one season of limited success and too many people act like he'll save the franchise. I think we're rushing blindly into this.

He won't save the franchise but he will hold players accountable which is something this franchise desparately needs. He's still young as a manager and I'm sure he'll make plenty of mistakes. I'm hoping if he comes on board that it is just the start of a honest attempt to rebuild a floundering franchise and I think if they do go that route he's the perfect choice.

[fearthenoodle]

According to Roch,

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/roch/blog/

My guess is that the O's aren't going to say they've offered the job to Girardi until they've either interviewed a minority candidate, or received permission from MLB to hire him without interviewing a minority.

It is my belief that they likely did tell Girardi he was their guy, and Girardi pretty much agreed to take the job, but MacPhail and Flanny told him they wouldn't be able to officially offer him until they talked to MLB.

[Goop]

I really hope they don't rush this decision. I think Girardi is a great candidate,

but I hope they will also interview some others (i.e. DJ) just to make sure he is

who they want. The last thing the team needs is a rushed, not thought out decision.

[Hank Scorpio]

Bedard's getting up there in age. If you can trade him for a 24-year-old version of himself, why not? It's the same deal with Roberts.

Guthrie is pitching way over his head. A smart team would realize that he's a career minor-leaguer who may have transformed into a solid 4-5 starter but is currently pitching like a young future ace and ship him off for a top prospect. Obviously, we won't.

B, I'm with you on trading Bedard. His value is about as high as it'll ever be and you can probably get back 2 very good young players for him.

I keep Guthrie, not only because he has above average stuff and the right mindset, but because we have him under our control for 5 years. I know he's pitching over his head, but I think Guthrie is a keeper for the back end of the rotation.

[AgentOrange]

I hope for Girardi's sake he stays away from this job. He's a good manager and should stick around and wait for a good opening. He can't do anything with this team. I hope we don't get Girardi and continue our delusions of somehow contending either this year or next. We NEED to rebuild! Girardi doesn't change that, it just makes us think even more that we don't!

I disagree. I think Andy MacPhail is the reason he would take this job and the reason he would take this job is because he would have a lot of managerial say. MacPhail is going to be in charge of the franchise with player descisions and I am sure they told Girardi that things would be different. I am surpised that you don't see that. I have a hard time believing that Girardi would take the job if they told him everything would be the same.

Girardi would be the first step into a youth movement with spending cash for Girardi when he gets this ship turned around.

[baltfan]

Oh, my bad. You're talking about Guthrie, aren't you?

Guthrie doesn't strike out enough guys for a guy who doesn't have great control and hasn't his whole career except for this year.

He's obviously a late bloomer, if he was like he was his whole career he wouldn't even be near the majors.

I like Guthrie. I like his work ethic and smarts. But his lack of K's and usual lack of control make me think he's not gonna be anything but a 4ish ERA pitcher. If anyone thinks he's really a 1 or 2 as he's pitching like now, you need to sell high.

Some things to consider in evaluating Guthrie.

1. He lost some time due to the fact that he did mission work.
2. While his K rate is maybe not as high as you would like, his stuff suggests that his K rate should be higher. This is possibly a product of him concentrating on learning how to pitch and throwing strikes versus trying to strike everyone out.
3. We got rid of a late-bloomer a number of years ago who didn't have much of a k-rate--Jamie Moyer.
4. Though Guthrie's stuff isn't as good, Verlander is a guy who comes to mind who had a seemingly abnormally low k rate for his stuff last year. His k rate is now improving, but still isn't what you would expect for someone with his stuff.
5. Guys with k-rates similar to Guthrie who are pretty good.

Buerhle - 5.86
Halladay - 5.90
Blanton - 6.09

There is a lot of value in sabremetrics but everyone needs to understand its limitations. Last year the sabermetricians said that the Nationals were fools for trading Brad Wilkerson for Alfonso Soriano. I saw more than one article saying that they might end up with roughly identical statistics. How did that work out?

There were numerous sabremetricians that were all set to write-off Jose Reyes early in his career. I have heard for a couple of years now that Wang can't keep it up in NY because his K rate is too low. J.D. Drew has made millions of dollars because he is such a favorite of sabermetricians.

SABRE GUYS PLEASE READ THIS PART. I AM A SUBSCRIBER TO BASEBALL PROSPECTUS. I BELIEVE IN THE VALUE OF STATISTICS. I AGREE THAT OBP IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN BATTING AVG, THAT RBI ARE VIRTUALLY WORTHLESS AS A STATISTIC, AND THAT K RATES GENERALLY ARE A GOOD WAY TO EVALUATE THE LIKELIHOOD OF FUTURE SUCCESS. BUT, AS A MATH MAJOR LONG AGO, I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THE MORE COMPLICATED THE STATISTICAL COMPILATION, THE MORE LIKELY THERE IS ERROR THAT YOU HAVE FAILED TO ANTICIPATE.

[33rd&Ellerslie]

He won't save the franchise but he will hold players accountable which is something this franchise desparately needs. He's still young as a manager and I'm sure he'll make plenty of mistakes. I'm hoping if he comes on board that it is just the start of a honest attempt to rebuild a floundering franchise and I think if they do go that route he's the perfect choice.

Gesch, this is where I think you are dead on. Accountability!

Look, I am a rookie here and honestly I am a bit ashamed of that looking at some of the recent rookie posts, and I deserve zero credit, but I have been for Girardi for a long time. I may be wrong but I don't think so. He is a former player with 3 championships, I think that will give him credibility in the clubhouse. He isn't afraid to stand up to anyone, not Sammy Sosa when they got in their tiff about his radio being too loud all the time, not Jeffrey Loria; he is intelligent (Industrial Engineering Degree at Northwestern) and I believe he sees potential in this team with MacPhail or he wouldn't be coming here. He could have his pick of jobs at the end of the year, don't doubt that but I believe he wants to come here. That says a lot to me.

Secondly, we are not getting anywhere trading off Bradford and Williamson and Patterson. You get what you give. If this team is going to go somewhere we are going to have to trade off value NOW for value LATER. I love Brian Roberts and Erik Bedard, but we are going to have to give up something to get something else we need. Unfortunately we are going to have to take a few steps back to get ahead. I think Roy alluded to this in his "Just Wondering" post. I think MacPhail and Girardi are the combination to get us where we need. I hope in 2009 we are all pouring the champagne together!

Finally, I am an idiot too so take it for what it is worth!

[Sports Guy]

I hope he turns it down.

[geschinger]

I hope he turns it down.

Seems odd that you would want the O's best option to turn them down.

[Fan4Life]

I hope he turns it down.

I have to say I am with you on this one. Girradi may be the next Davey Johnson, but why wait when we could have the original.

[Sports Guy]

Seems odd that you would want the O's best option to turn them down.
I just don't think he is the best option.

I like Davey Johnson more...And i really think i prefer Trembley to finish out the year, see how he does and go from there.

I am not opposed to Girardi at all but i would prefer another direction. Some things i have heard about Girardi really make me question him.

[sector7g]

I think Girardi takes the job. If he fails here most people in the game probably won't blame him for it, if he succeeds in turning this organization around he's going to be the hottest property in baseball. Almost a no lose situation for him.

[geschinger]

I have to say I am with you on this one. Girradi may be the next Davey Johnson, but why wait when we could have the original.

This team isn't close enough to being a winner where Davey would make much of a difference. Hiring Davey Johnson makes taking the necessary step of rebuilding much more difficult. Now if the front office and Angelos and MacPhail are dead set against rebuilding then sure, Davey would be a better choice. Only with what we have to work with the ceiling even w/DJ would be lower than making the playoffs.

[Flosman]

I just don't think he is the best option.

I like Davey Johnson more...And i really think i prefer Trembley to finish out the year, see how he does and go from there.

I am not opposed to Girardi at all but i would prefer another direction. Some things i have heard about Girardi really make me question him.


What exactly have you heard?

[Hank Scorpio]

I just don't think he is the best option.

I like Davey Johnson more...And i really think i prefer Trembley to finish out the year, see how he does and go from there.

I am not opposed to Girardi at all but i would prefer another direction. Some things i have heard about Girardi really make me question him.

Such as?

I'm curious what you've heard b/c I haven't really heard anything.

[geschinger]

I just don't think he is the best option.

I like Davey Johnson more...And i really think i prefer Trembley to finish out the year, see how he does and go from there.

I am not opposed to Girardi at all but i would prefer another direction. Some things i have heard about Girardi really make me question him.

As I just said in the previous post, if the FO is deadset against rebuilding then I'd prefer DJ as well.

Sticking with Trembley throughout the year doesn't accomplish anything IMO. Whomever is the next mgr - get him in here, let him evaluate the players and more importantly the coaches and give him control to make changes to the staff in the off season and input into what players are keepers.

[tywright]

Such as?

I'm curious what you've heard b/c I haven't really heard anything.

Overusing his pitchers, mismanaging the bullpen, playing Josh Willingham in LF on Opening Day when he only played C in spring training

[Sports Guy]

What exactly have you heard?

Apparently he made alot of poor decisions as a manager...A few examples i heard:

1) Last year in ST, the FO wanted Willingham to be the LFer...Girardi disagreed and played Willingham at C all year long...On OD, Willingham was in LF, with no experience.

2) Last Sept, after an 82 minute rain delay, Josh Johnson came back out..Hurt his arm...Just pitched last night for the first time since that happened.

Heard a writer in the Miami area talking about how the FO was always questioning his decisions.

Plus, he had an awful relationship with them and would basically ignore them. If that happens again here, it will just be another firing in a year or so.

[tywright]

Apparently he made alot of poor decisions as a manager...A few examples i heard:

1) Last year in ST, the FO wanted Willingham to be the LFer...Girardi disagreed and played Willingham at C all year long...On OD, Willingham was in LF, with no experience.

2) Last Sept, after an 82 minute rain delay, Josh Johnson came back out..Hurt his arm...Just pitched last night for the first time since that happened.

Heard a writer in the Miami area talking about how the FO was always questioning his decisions.

Plus, he had an awful relationship with them and would basically ignore them. If that happens again here, it will just be another firing in a year or so.


Hey you listen to Anita Marks too? I thought I was the only one

Also not to nitpick, but Josh Johnson has had 3 rehab starts in the minors since June 1

[Sports Guy]

This team isn't close enough to being a winner where Davey would make much of a difference. Hiring Davey Johnson makes taking the necessary step of rebuilding much more difficult. Now if the front office and Angelos and MacPhail are dead set against rebuilding then sure, Davey would be a better choice. Only with what we have to work with the ceiling even w/DJ would be lower than making the playoffs.

Well, this is a big key.

No matter who the manager is, they must rebuild. So, that has to come into play here.

[Sports Guy]

Hey you listen to Anita Marks too? I thought I was the only one

Yea, i happened to hear the interview...Wasn't exactly thrilled to hear what the guy was saying, although Girardi was loved by his players.

[Hank Scorpio]

Hey you listen to Anita Marks too? I thought I was the only one

I usually put myself through it everyday, too... just because there's nothing else to listen to. Sometimes it's physically painful, but she does manage to lure some pretty good guests sometimes.

Then she asks them if they like sushi and what they thought of the dancing with the stars finale.

[JTrea81]

I just don't think he is the best option.

I like Davey Johnson more...And i really think i prefer Trembley to finish out the year, see how he does and go from there.

I am not opposed to Girardi at all but i would prefer another direction. Some things i have heard about Girardi really make me question him.

Are you talking about how he ran Josh Johnson out there for the 8th inning in a game after a long rain delay and he wasn't the same since? That was pretty alarming I admit but I think he's learned his lesson from that...

Edit: Apparently you are...

[Miller192]

I dont see why we are neccesarily rushing to Girardi. Wouldn't be in his best interest and ours to just let Trembley finish the year then give Joe a clean slate next year?

[Fan4Life]

This team isn't close enough to being a winner where Davey would make much of a difference. Hiring Davey Johnson makes taking the necessary step of rebuilding much more difficult. Now if the front office and Angelos and MacPhail are dead set against rebuilding then sure, Davey would be a better choice. Only with what we have to work with the ceiling even w/DJ would be lower than making the playoffs.

So you prefer Girardi? What resume does he have that makes you feel more comortable with him?

[geschinger]

Apparently he made alot of poor decisions as a manager...A few examples i heard:

1) Last year in ST, the FO wanted Willingham to be the LFer...Girardi disagreed and played Willingham at C all year long...On OD, Willingham was in LF, with no experience.

2) Last Sept, after an 82 minute rain delay, Josh Johnson came back out..Hurt his arm...Just pitched last night for the first time since that happened.

Heard a writer in the Miami area talking about how the FO was always questioning his decisions.

Plus, he had an awful relationship with them and would basically ignore them. If that happens again here, it will just be another firing in a year or so.

I do not blame Girardi for not getting along with Loria. Loria plays fast and loose w/the truth lying to Girardi from day one. After Girardi publically embarassed Loria by exposing his juvenile outlandsih behavior Loria wanted him gone. They couldn't just come out and fire someone doing such a fantastic job w/that roster so I believe they started working the media to discredit him.

Did he make mistakes? Absolutely. Will he make mistakes if he becomes the Orioles manager? Absolutely. The key is that I think he's the type of person that will learn from his mistakes. I don't see him as being the type of manager who will do the same things over and over and over again while expecting different results.

[JTrea81]

So you prefer Girardi? What resume does he have that makes you feel more comortable with him?

He's wanted by other clubs. I don't see anybody beating down the door to hire Johnson or Baker. Girardi is anybody's first choice. Plus DJ might keep the coaching staff intact. Girardi would blow it up - no question with the exception of Mazzone.

[66-70-83-??]

I dont see why we are neccesarily rushing to Girardi. Wouldn't be in his best interest and ours to just let Trembley finish the year then give Joe a clean slate next year?

I don't know. You would think that it would be in his best interest to wait because it is likely there will be more job opportunities in the offseason.

But, for that same reason, if he is the guy the Orioles want- then it would be in the teams best interest to hire him now, while there is no competition for his services.

Girardi may actually want this job. Hiring McPhail might have been the key to selling him on the fact that PA is willing to change his ways.

And another reason for Girardi taking the job- a "bird in the hand" is worth more than "two in the bushes". There are no guarantees in life. What happens if Girardi waits til the offseason and no offers come ?

Some other guys might as emerge as the "hot" candidates of the day.

Besides, his style may not be coveted by all clubs.

Any owner that is freindly with Loria may have second thoughts. Many bosses don't like to hire the type of manager that talks back / argues with upper management.

[Sports Guy]

I do not blame Girardi for not getting along with Loria. Loria plays fast and loose w/the truth lying to Girardi from day one. After Girardi publically embarassed Loria by exposing his juvenile outlandsih behavior Loria wanted him gone. They couldn't just come out and fire someone doing such a fantastic job w/that roster so I believe they started working the media to discredit him.

Did he make mistakes? Absolutely. Will he make mistakes if he becomes the Orioles manager? Absolutely. The key is that I think he's the type of person that will learn from his mistakes. I don't see him as being the type of manager who will do the same things over and over and over again while expecting different results.

Well to be fair, the writer basically said the same thing. He felt he would be a good manager long term and that he would learn from his mistakes.

[geschinger]

So you prefer Girardi? What resume does he have that makes you feel more comortable with him?

I live in SoFla and when I can't get the Orioles games it's usually the Malins games I see. I also read the Palm Beach Post Sports section most days which of course has a lot of focus on the Marlins. I was very impressed w/how he handled the Marlins. And even more impressed that to him what was right was sometimes more important than what was in his best interests. I.e having the courage to call out Loria when he was making a fool of himself in a way that could of had a detrimental effect on his players. I like that trait in a manager.

[Fan4Life]

He's wanted by other clubs. I don't see anybody beating down the door to hire Johnson or Baker. Girardi is anybody's first choice. Plus DJ might keep the coaching staff intact. Girardi would blow it up - no question with the exception of Mazzone.

So because everyone else thinks his one hit wonder wasn't an accident we should buy into it? And as long as everyone else isn't interested in hiring a manager that has proven to be a winner several times over, we should stay away from him? I think you have to do better than that. I'm concerned about Girardi because I read on here (someone correct me if this is bad information) that he wanted to play his Vets and stay away from the yonger players and was forced to play them which is why he had success. So if that's true, how can you attribute some much glory to him? Sounds like you could make the case the Marlins succeeded in spite of him.

[geschinger]

I don't know. You would think that it would be in his best interest to wait because it is likely there will be more job opportunities in the offseason.

But, for that same reason, if he is the guy the Orioles want- then it would be in the teams best interest to hire him now, while there is no competition for his services.

Girardi may actually want this job. Hiring McPhail might have been the key to selling him on the fact that PA is willing to change his ways.

And another reason for Girardi taking the job- a "bird in the hand" is worth more than "two in the bushes". There are no guarantees in life. What happens if Girardi waits til the offseason and no offers come ?


Also the two jobs he probably coveted most are not likely to be possibilities. It seems like Mattingly is the anointed successor in NY and CHI just hired Sweet Lou.

[tywright]

I usually put myself through it everyday, too... just because there's nothing else to listen to. Sometimes it's physically painful, but she does manage to lure some pretty good guests sometimes.

Then she asks them if they like sushi and what they thought of the dancing with the stars finale.

I usually switch back and forth between her and Rob Long. When Rob Long starts talking basketball I will switch to Anita. When Anita is talking about dumb stuff, I will switch back to Rob. It's a hassle

[Fan4Life]

I live in SoFla and when I can't get the Orioles games it's usually the Malins games I see. I also read the Palm Beach Post Sports section most days which of course has a lot of focus on the Marlins. I was very impressed w/how he handled the Marlins. And even more impressed that to him what was right was sometimes more important than what was in his best interests. I.e having the courage to call out Loria when he was making a fool of himself in a way that could of had a detrimental effect on his players. I like that trait in a manager.

Can you provide supporting details of what you liked about his handling of the team other than he had the kahonas to tell the owner to shutup? Do you have links to articles where players or other teams members expressed things about him that we can quantify?

[Hank Scorpio]

I live in SoFla and when I can't get the Orioles games it's usually the Malins games I see. I also read the Palm Beach Post Sports section most days which of course has a lot of focus on the Marlins. I was very impressed w/how he handled the Marlins. And even more impressed that to him what was right was sometimes more important than what was in his best interests. I.e having the courage to call out Loria when he was making a fool of himself in a way that could of had a detrimental effect on his players. I like that trait in a manager.

I agree with you.

I like Girardi and think he would be a nice shot in the arm.

I really like Trembley too, but there is that stigma that he's just another internal face. I don't know if there's much credence to the theory that it's best to not promote from within a losing organization, but that's the only reason I would be averse to making Trembley the permanent guy.

[Hank Scorpio]

I usually switch back and forth between her and Rob Long. When Rob Long starts talking basketball I will switch to Anita. When Anita is talking about dumb stuff, I will switch back to Rob. It's a hassle

My 1570 signal is usually dead by 4pm. Not sure why.

[Sports Guy]

Will Girardi get to pick his coaches?

[tywright]

I don't know. You would think that it would be in his best interest to wait because it is likely there will be more job opportunities in the offseason.

But, for that same reason, if he is the guy the Orioles want- then it would be in the teams best interest to hire him now, while there is no competition for his services.

Girardi may actually want this job. Hiring McPhail might have been the key to selling him on the fact that PA is willing to change his ways.

And another reason for Girardi taking the job- a "bird in the hand" is worth more than "two in the bushes". There are no guarantees in life. What happens if Girardi waits til the offseason and no offers come ?

Some other guys might as emerge as the "hot" candidates of the day.

Besides, his style may not be coveted by all clubs.

Any owner that is freindly with Loria may have second thoughts. Many bosses don't like to hire the type of manager that talks back / argues with upper management.

Jayson Stark on Mike and Mike this morning stated that Girardi originally was not goiing to take the job because of Angelos. Now Girardi is seriously considering taking the job solely because MacPhail conveyed to him that Angelos had handed the reins over to him and that he wouldn't meddle in things.

Also Stark said Steve Phillips was wrong in saying the O's job was the worst because he didn't take into account that the working conditions had changed, plus we are a "sleeping giant". That's the 3rd time we've heard sleeping giant used to characterize this team.

[tywright]

My 1570 signal is usually dead by 4pm. Not sure why.

It's very weak....if you are 20 miles outside Towson then you won't get it

[Sports Guy]

Jayson Stark on Mike and Mike this morning stated that Girardi originally was not goiing to take the job because of Angelos. Now Girardi is seriously considering taking the job solely because MacPhail conveyed to him that Angelos had handed the reins over to him and that he wouldn't meddle in things.

Also Stark said Steve Phillips was wrong in saying the O's job was the worst because he didn't take into account that the working conditions had changed, plus we are a "sleeping giant". That's the 3rd time we've heard sleeping giant used to characterize this team.

The funny thing is Grenny and Golic seem to be paying more attention to Phillips and Kruk than Stark.

[geschinger]

Can you provide supporting details of what you liked about his handling of the team other than he had the kahonas to tell the owner to shutup? Do you have links to articles where players or other teams members expressed things about him that we can quantify?

It would cost you some money but if you wanted to learn alot about Girardi and how he handles the team you could sign up for the PB Post archives. (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/archives/content/archives/index.html) If you just went through the Sunday paper articles you'd come across a lot of articles with analysis and that talk alot about Girardi.

What I liked most about his style is that he is no nonsense and demands that his players play the game the right way. He got a team that noone gave a chance and made them believe in themselves and overachieve. Kind of the polar opposite of recent Orioles managers.

[66-70-83-??]

Jayson Stark on Mike and Mike this morning stated that Girardi originally was not goiing to take the job because of Angelos. Now Girardi is seriously considering taking the job solely because MacPhail conveyed to him that Angelos had handed the reins over to him and that he wouldn't meddle in things.

Also Stark said Steve Phillips was wrong in saying the O's job was the worst because he didn't take into account that the working conditions had changed, plus we are a "sleeping giant". That's the 3rd time we've heard sleeping giant used to characterize this team.

We are a sleeping giant.

The one who has put us to sleep is PA. He is the only one standing between us and a return to greatness. All he has to do is step back and allow his baseball people to make ALL the baseball decisions.

We were the Kings of the AL East back in 96/97. Then came the infamous Bonilla trade-veto that soured Gillick on the organization and led to his leaving at the end of the season.............. You know the rest of the story. :(

[tywright]

The funny thing is Grenny and Golic seem to be paying more attention to Phillips and Kruk than Stark.

Well they're idiots...Stark and Olney are national writers/reporters for a reason

[tywright]

We are a sleeping giant.

The one who has put us to sleep is PA. He is the only one standing between us and a return to greatness. All he has to do is step back and allow his baseball people to make ALL the baseball decisions.

We were the Kings of the AL East back in 96/97. Then came the infamous Bonilla trade-veto that soured Gillick on the organization and led to his leaving at the end of the season.............. You know the rest of the story. :(

Yeah I know we are, it's just to nice to know that national media types and other GMs know as well. Like I've said before, this Andy MacPhail hiring is the biggest signing by the O's in the past 10 years.

[Malike]

If Girardi used Bedard the way he used Willis last season, people would be calling for his head here. Girardi has accomplished nothing at all in his "career" as a manager. I know everyone wants a guy who will get in the face of the players etc, but what exactly has Girardi shown over the course of one friggen season to warrant all the man-crushes?

The team he had in Florida while being cheap, was far from untalented.

Davey Johnson would be a much smarter choice.

[geschinger]

If Girardi used Bedard the way he used Willis last season, people would be calling for his head here. Girardi has accomplished nothing at all in his "career" as a manager. I know everyone wants a guy who will get in the face of the players etc, but what exactly has Girardi shown over the course of one friggen season to warrant all the man-crushes?

The team he had in Florida while being cheap, was far from untalented.

Davey Johnson would be a much smarter choice.

If were not going to do the right thing and rebuild then I agree w/you about DJ.

Now if we were to rebuild and your criteria is that they have been at it for more than one friggen season whom are you going to get?

[NJOriolesFan]

The only problem I have with Johnson is that he is 64 years old. Let's say we rebuild. All the fruits of those trades may not fully bloom for 3 years. He will be 67 years old, then. Is his passion for the game going to be strong at 67. He was a smoker and heavy drinker. What will his health be like at 67 years old? Not trying to be cold. 10 years ago he was great. He may still be great but for how long. Davey has never been the model of health, although I hear he is doing much better in recent years. He was simply amazing every stop of his career but I just am not sure if hiring Johnson accomplishes what we hope it will.

You think they blast us now. Wait until we hire the 64 year old Johnson who we essentially booted out the door 10 years ago and neither Johnson nor the Orioles have been relevant ever since. Check the headlines on that.

And I love Davey Johnson. I've always been an Orioles fan and I had season tickets to the 1985 and 1986 Mets and loved what Davey did with those teams. I personally think Davey Johnson is a Hall of Fame manager. And he loves to utilize platoons. Will he take a rebuilding scenario though?

Girardi can be here for 10 years if he is successful.

[Meson]

I agree that this team needs to rebuild. However, I don't know about you all, but I am not so sure that I trust Flanny to be able to evaluate and bring back quality young players in a trade.....

[geschinger]

The only problem I have with Johnson is that he is 64 years old. Let's say we rebuild. All the fruits of those trades may not fully bloom for 3 years. He will be 67 years old, then. Is his passion for the game going to be strong at 67. He was a smoker and heavy drinker. What will his health be like at 67 years old? Not trying to be cold. 10 years ago he was great. He may still be great but for how long. Davey has never been the model of health, although I hear he is doing much better in recent years. He was simply amazing every stop of his career but I just am not sure if hiring Johnson accomplishes what we hope it will.

You think they blast us now. Wait until we hire the 64 year old Johnson who we essentially booted out the door 10 years ago and neither Johnson nor the Orioles have been relevant ever since. Check the headlines on that.

And I love Davey Johnson. I've always been an Orioles fan and I had season tickets to the 1985 and 1986 Mets and loved what Davey did with those teams. I personally think Davey Johnson is a Hall of Fame manager. And he loves to utilize platoons. Will he take a rebuilding scenario though?

Girardi can be here for 10 years if he is successful.

IMO the problem is that if DJ is hired there will be no attempt to rebuild. It would be more about trying to patch the biggest holes and hope he can win with what we've got.

[Fan4Life]

It would cost you some money but if you wanted to learn alot about Girardi and how he handles the team you could sign up for the PB Post archives. (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/archives/content/archives/index.html) If you just went through the Sunday paper articles you'd come across a lot of articles with analysis and that talk alot about Girardi.

What I liked most about his style is that he is no nonsense and demands that his players play the game the right way.

He got a team that noone gave a chance and made them believe in themselves and overachieve. Kind of the polar opposite of recent Orioles managers.

Sounds like you're talking about Davey Johnson. :p

How do you address his not wanting to play the youngsters in favor of older Vets and because he was forced to his success was made?

I don't have anything against JG, it's just that we've just fired our 2 most recent managers who were hired with little to no experience. I'm a little hesitent to do it again when I know there is a manager available that has shown what he can do time and time again.

[MPK76]

According to the updated Sun article, Rick Dempsey could be interviewed today.:eek:

Popular former catcher Rick Dempsey, currently a broadcaster with Mid-Atlantic Sports Network, could be interviewed for the position today, according to two team sources.

Also, they may not need to interview a minority candidate.....

Major League Baseball rules stipulate that when hiring in key positions, such as general manager, assistant general manager and field manager, minority candidates have to be considered. But if the Orioles communicate to the commissioner's office that Girardi is the man they want and interviewing a minority would be done only to satisfy the rule, they may not be required to do so.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-os0620,0,6122363.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball

[boogidownoriole]

The funny thing is Grenny and Golic seem to be paying more attention to Phillips and Kruk than Stark.

Its more for humor than anything else. They did a funny segment on what jobs would be worse than managing for the Orioles. People sent in some funny stuff, like XXX Theater mopper :eek:

[The Wedge]

Its more for humor than anything else. They did a funny segment on what jobs would be worse than managing for the Orioles. People sent in some funny stuff, like XXX Theater mopper :eek:

Yeah, most people don't get that sometimes. They lean towards the deadpan humor. Yeah it hurts, when it's about us, but hey, we do it ourselves. We're just not used to being in this much of the spotlight lately.

And the fact that they're even going to give Rick Dempsey an interview scares the living piss out of me.

[DrungoHazewood]

The only problem I have with Johnson is that he is 64 years old. Let's say we rebuild. All the fruits of those trades may not fully bloom for 3 years. He will be 67 years old, then. Is his passion for the game going to be strong at 67. He was a smoker and heavy drinker. What will his health be like at 67 years old? Not trying to be cold. 10 years ago he was great. He may still be great but for how long. Davey has never been the model of health, although I hear he is doing much better in recent years. He was simply amazing every stop of his career but I just am not sure if hiring Johnson accomplishes what we hope it will.

You think they blast us now. Wait until we hire the 64 year old Johnson who we essentially booted out the door 10 years ago and neither Johnson nor the Orioles have been relevant ever since. Check the headlines on that.

And I love Davey Johnson. I've always been an Orioles fan and I had season tickets to the 1985 and 1986 Mets and loved what Davey did with those teams. I personally think Davey Johnson is a Hall of Fame manager. And he loves to utilize platoons. Will he take a rebuilding scenario though?

Girardi can be here for 10 years if he is successful.

Many, if not most, managers become shadows of their former selves in their later years. Earl did crazy stuff like batting slow, sub-.300 OBP Juan Bonilla leadoff. Sparky Anderson stuck with a whole season of Mike Moore and a 7.53 ERA.

The game changes, and after 10 or 20 years most managers are still doing what made them successful in another era, while the younger guys are all figuring out things to defeat the 20 year old strategies.

This isn't a universal thing, but I think I want Girardi over Davey at this point with this team.

[Sports Guy]

I must say all i care about is rebuilding...At this point, i don't care who the manager is.

I just want whoever the manager is to be on board with a rebuilding effort.

[fearthenoodle]

I must say all i care about is rebuilding...At this point, i don't care who the manager is.

I just want whoever the manager is to be on board with a rebuilding effort.

Well, Girardi would seem to fit that profile as well as anyone. My only apprehension with Trembley is that I would like to see someone from outside the organization who can come in with a completely fresh look at things.

[Miller192]

It's very weak....if you are 20 miles outside Towson then you won't get it

WNST is required to turn their signal down I believe at 5:00. I think it has something to do with emergency broadcasting. I asked Terry Ford this once and that's what he told me, I don't remember the exact reason though.

[tywright]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2007/06/20/a1c_george_0620.html

This guy hopes Girardi takes the job

[Wingman]

I must say all i care about is rebuilding...At this point, i don't care who the manager is.

I just want whoever the manager is to be on board with a rebuilding effort.

Preach it...

[TonySoprano]

According to the updated Sun article, Rick Dempsey could be interviewed today.:eek:


Also, they may not need to interview a minority candidate.....
Major League Baseball rules stipulate that when hiring in key positions, such as general manager, assistant general manager and field manager, minority candidates have to be considered. But if the Orioles communicate to the commissioner's office that Girardi is the man they want and interviewing a minority would be done only to satisfy the rule, they may not be required to do so.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-os0620,0,6122363.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball

Then why have the rule at all? I don't think it's that simple. Reagrdless, IMO, the talk about the "process" means we are going to interview a minority candidate.

[DrungoHazewood]

Then why have the rule at all? I don't think it's that simple. Reagrdless, IMO, the talk about the "process" means we are going to interview a minority candidate.

Bud Selig plays Calvinball when it's convienent - sometimes he just makes it up as he goes. Minority hiring rule... good when the spotlight is on MLB's hiring practices, can be set aside when no one's looking too hard. Loans to your cronies in MLB... sure that's explicity illegal to eliminate conflicts of interest and syndicate ownership, well, except when it's not. Lots of examples of this. When you're a self-policing monopoly you have to answer to almost no one.

[Sports Guy]

The minority rule is stupid IMO.

You should interview the candidates you want whether they are black, white, asian, indian or whatever.

By interviewing a guy like Baylor, all you are doing is wasting his and your time.

[DrungoHazewood]

The minority rule is stupid IMO.

You should interview the candidates you want whether they are black, white, asian, indian or whatever.

By interviewing a guy like Baylor, all you are doing is wasting his and your time.

And exposing the whole thing as a sham. If they're trying to prove they are open minded and unbiased how does it look when 90% of managerial hirings involve turning down the minority candidate because he wasn't really on your radar but was only invited as a check in the box?

[Birds08]

If Dempsey becomes the manager, I think I will literally flip out and go crazy with rage and anger, and maybe not watch the Orioles again until he's gone. The guy is not smart, which he proves every time he opens his mouth on the Orioles telecasts. I'm sure he's a great guy, and maybe at least decent as a coach, but there is ZERO way he should ever manage any team.

[Sports Guy]

And exposing the whole thing as a sham. If they're trying to prove they are open minded and unbiased how does it look when 90% of managerial hirings involve turning down the minority candidate because he wasn't really on your radar but was only invited as a check in the box?
Right...I know most of the minorities feel this rule should be there but if i were them, i would look at it as a slap in the face more than anything.

[Tony-OH]

Some things to consider in evaluating Guthrie.

1. He lost some time due to the fact that he did mission work.
2. While his K rate is maybe not as high as you would like, his stuff suggests that his K rate should be higher. This is possibly a product of him concentrating on learning how to pitch and throwing strikes versus trying to strike everyone out.
3. We got rid of a late-bloomer a number of years ago who didn't have much of a k-rate--Jamie Moyer.
4. Though Guthrie's stuff isn't as good, Verlander is a guy who comes to mind who had a seemingly abnormally low k rate for his stuff last year. His k rate is now improving, but still isn't what you would expect for someone with his stuff.
5. Guys with k-rates similar to Guthrie who are pretty good.

Buerhle - 5.86
Halladay - 5.90
Blanton - 6.09

There is a lot of value in sabremetrics but everyone needs to understand its limitations. Last year the sabermetricians said that the Nationals were fools for trading Brad Wilkerson for Alfonso Soriano. I saw more than one article saying that they might end up with roughly identical statistics. How did that work out?

There were numerous sabremetricians that were all set to write-off Jose Reyes early in his career. I have heard for a couple of years now that Wang can't keep it up in NY because his K rate is too low. J.D. Drew has made millions of dollars because he is such a favorite of sabermetricians.

SABRE GUYS PLEASE READ THIS PART. I AM A SUBSCRIBER TO BASEBALL PROSPECTUS. I BELIEVE IN THE VALUE OF STATISTICS. I AGREE THAT OBP IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN BATTING AVG, THAT RBI ARE VIRTUALLY WORTHLESS AS A STATISTIC, AND THAT K RATES GENERALLY ARE A GOOD WAY TO EVALUATE THE LIKELIHOOD OF FUTURE SUCCESS. BUT, AS A MATH MAJOR LONG AGO, I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THE MORE COMPLICATED THE STATISTICAL COMPILATION, THE MORE LIKELY THERE IS ERROR THAT YOU HAVE FAILED TO ANTICIPATE.


In short... FANTASTIC post. Your rep points have been AWARDED!!

[rolliefingers]

And exposing the whole thing as a sham. If they're trying to prove they are open minded and unbiased how does it look when 90% of managerial hirings involve turning down the minority candidate because he wasn't really on your radar but was only invited as a check in the box?

And then you have the Rangers hiring Washington, a guy most people had never heard of. Teams will hire who they want to hire, period. I understand the spirit of the rule, but like many affirmative-action programs, I think its necessity has passed.

[Tony-OH]

I just don't think he is the best option.

I like Davey Johnson more...And i really think i prefer Trembley to finish out the year, see how he does and go from there.
I am not opposed to Girardi at all but i would prefer another direction. Some things i have heard about Girardi really make me question him.

I'm leaning towards that as well. Although I would not be upset with Girardi being named manager, I like a lot of what I'm hearing from Trembley. He wants things done right and although I'll reserve complete judgement on his in-game managing abilities once I see how he manages his bullpen, lineup and pinch hitting situations, I'm not sure it's such a bad idea to ride out the rest of the season with him and see where we are at the end of the season.

I'm not convinced Girardi really wants to be here and I really don't blame him to tell you the truth. Hopefully McPhail will change that feeling around baseball.

[Sports Guy]

1. He lost some time due to the fact that he did mission work. Not the biggest deal in the world..Even if you want to look at him as a 26 y/o, his MiL were still unimpressive at the levels he was at.

2. While his K rate is maybe not as high as you would like, his stuff suggests that his K rate should be higher. This is possibly a product of him concentrating on learning how to pitch and throwing strikes versus trying to strike everyone out. His K rate has always been low...What is your excuse for the low K rates in the minors?

3. We got rid of a late-bloomer a number of years ago who didn't have much of a k-rate--Jamie Moyer. Myer is also left handed and possess a great changeup. I am sure being in Seattle and now in the NL helped him alot. Moyer also has very good control. Guthrie is showing that right now but hasn't throughout his career.

4. Though Guthrie's stuff isn't as good, Verlander is a guy who comes to mind who had a seemingly abnormally low k rate for his stuff last year. His k rate is now improving, but still isn't what you would expect for someone with his stuff.Verlander is 4 years younger and had a career K rat eof over 10 in the minors...Guthrie's was around 6...Hopefully you can determine the difference from there.

5. Guys with k-rates similar to Guthrie who are pretty good.

Buerhle - 5.86
Halladay - 5.90
Blanton - 6.09Halladay is normally above 6, which is where you want to be in terms of the average range..Halladay is also an extreme GB pitcher who doesn't give up many homers. BTW, you will notice that Halladay's ERA is very high for him this year.

Blanton has the K rate over 6, so he is fine..Also, i am sure he is helped out big time by his home park and he also has pin point control.

Buehrle's K rate is a little below average but it is close and it is no surprise that he is having a very good year in a year where his K rate is one fo the highest of his career. He has also shown great control. But he is giving up a ton of homers and with his K rate a little low, he could be in store for a bad second half, like a few years ago.

WS should trade him sooner than later.

BTW, i know you are going to say, in accordance to what i said about these guys, that Guthrie isn't giving up homers and has had great control as well. That is very true but that also goes against his career. 3 months or entire career...What is the better barometer?

[DrungoHazewood]

Just to provide some balance to Tony's gushing. :)


Some things to consider in evaluating Guthrie.

1. He lost some time due to the fact that he did mission work.

There's little evidence to suggest taking time off shifts one's development curve. He's still as likely as anyone to decline once he's past 28.


2. While his K rate is maybe not as high as you would like, his stuff suggests that his K rate should be higher. This is possibly a product of him concentrating on learning how to pitch and throwing strikes versus trying to strike everyone out.

Jorge Julio's stuff suggests he's K rate should be higher. So did a lot of pitchers. But it's not. And that's what matters.


3. We got rid of a late-bloomer a number of years ago who didn't have much of a k-rate--Jamie Moyer.

And Jamie Moyer was a one-in-a-million pitcher. I use him as a litmus test - if you call someone the new Jamie Moyer he's probably a junkballer with little chance of success, and since Moyer turned it around you're projecting his wildly unlikely career path onto everyone with a the same resume.


4. Though Guthrie's stuff isn't as good, Verlander is a guy who comes to mind who had a seemingly abnormally low k rate for his stuff last year. His k rate is now improving, but still isn't what you would expect for someone with his stuff.

Verlander is 24, made his MLB debut about a year after his last college start, and had a great K rate in the minors. Most very young pitchers see their K rate improve after a year or two in the league. Guthrie is 28, and has had a relatively low K rate in the minors.


5. Guys with k-rates similar to Guthrie who are pretty good.

Buerhle - 5.86
Halladay - 5.90
Blanton - 6.09

Guys with k-rates (since 2000) similar to Guthrie who flat-out suck:

Shawn Chacon - 5.91
Rocky Biddle - 6.21
Jose Acevedo - 6.18


There is a lot of value in sabremetrics but everyone needs to understand its limitations. Last year the sabermetricians said that the Nationals were fools for trading Brad Wilkerson for Alfonso Soriano. I saw more than one article saying that they might end up with roughly identical statistics. How did that work out?

There were numerous sabremetricians that were all set to write-off Jose Reyes early in his career. I have heard for a couple of years now that Wang can't keep it up in NY because his K rate is too low. J.D. Drew has made millions of dollars because he is such a favorite of sabermetricians.

SABRE GUYS PLEASE READ THIS PART. I AM A SUBSCRIBER TO BASEBALL PROSPECTUS. I BELIEVE IN THE VALUE OF STATISTICS. I AGREE THAT OBP IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN BATTING AVG, THAT RBI ARE VIRTUALLY WORTHLESS AS A STATISTIC, AND THAT K RATES GENERALLY ARE A GOOD WAY TO EVALUATE THE LIKELIHOOD OF FUTURE SUCCESS. BUT, AS A MATH MAJOR LONG AGO, I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THE MORE COMPLICATED THE STATISTICAL COMPILATION, THE MORE LIKELY THERE IS ERROR THAT YOU HAVE FAILED TO ANTICIPATE.

A lot of people like analysis right up to the point where it doesn't fit their preconceived notions. Guthrie seems like his stuff should translate into lots of strikeouts and lots of success. So you talk about the limitations of the analysis rather than entertain the thought that he may regress because of a rather poor track record.

Statistics and sabermetrics are just taking what happened on the field, recording it, and looking for things in that record to try to figure out why it happened and what's likely to happen in the future. Sometimes Brad Wilkerson gets hurt. Sometimes a very, very extreme groundball pitcher like Wang can have success with a profile that's unique.

But most of the time a guy with a mediocre record in AAA and a good two-month stretch in the majors goes back to being mediocre. Not always. But usually. And usually is what you have to bet on if you want to succeed most of the time.

[jerios55]

Darn, just when I was starting to like Dave Trembley. :D I guess we won't get to see even one Sunday of Miggy DHing against his will. :(

And just as I talk about Miggy DHing he makes another error that doesn't get scored as one. That force at second would have been easy if he hadn't booted the ball. :002_smad:

Trembley would stay on though right?? It seems to me if he has a no BS mentality he would be a good coach to pair with Girardi.

[boogidownoriole]

MacPhail just said no tangible offer has been made yet

[MP]

MacPhail just said there is no offer yet for Girardi.

Edit: Jinx boogie!

[lostinlife28]

MacPhail just said no tangible offer has been made yet


No tangible offer? So is that the new word? Does it replace Process??

[boogidownoriole]

MacPhail just said there is no offer yet for Girardi.

Edit: Jinx boogie!

lmao! I am quick on the trigger:D

[markakis4pres]

I'm leaning towards that as well. Although I would not be upset with Girardi being named manager, I like a lot of what I'm hearing from Trembley. He wants things done right and although I'll reserve complete judgement on his in-game managing abilities once I see how he manages his bullpen, lineup and pinch hitting situations, I'm not sure it's such a bad idea to ride out the rest of the season with him and see where we are at the end of the season.

I'm not convinced Girardi really wants to be here and I really don't blame him to tell you the truth. Hopefully McPhail will change that feeling around baseball.

I think it was Buck Martinez who said that Trembley wants the players on the bench to watch the game and cheer the players instead of hanging out in the clubhouse.

He wants the respect of the players and wants them to play hard no matter what the situation is.

I wouldnt mind if we stuck with Trembley the rest of the year

[markpolis]

Just like Bruce Chen pal. We'll talk. When Guthrie's back to being an after-thought league-average 4-5 starter and the opportunity to potentially get a team's top 5 prospect for him is gone, we'll talk.

The amount of blinded homers is ridiculous. We are the biggest joke in professional baseball right now. Do all of you just crave to see a winning season so bad that you've thrown away all hopes of challenging for the division again someday? My plan, or a similar variation of it, actually makes sense. Quit calling me not a true fan and trying to write me off as a psycho just like you did about Chen when I'm right again about a pitcher.

A smart team would deal Guthrie.

I was never a Bruce Chen fan. I didn't say you were not a "true fan" and I didn't call you a "psycho". I think you've set a record for misquotes in one post.

BTW, don't act like a psycho or a little kid and others won't treat you like one.

[bryanman8]

I was never a Bruce Chen fan. I didn't say you were not a "true fan" and I didn't call you a "psycho". I think you've set a record for misquotes in one post.

BTW, don't act like a psycho or a little kid and others won't treat you like one.
You're a pain and you always have been. You insulted my age simply for voicing the opinion that Jeremy Guthrie is not a great pitcher and we should trade him. You do this time and time again and are always there to make a poke at my age when I voice an opinion that's the complete opposite of yours.

[bryanman8]

I disagree. I think Andy MacPhail is the reason he would take this job and the reason he would take this job is because he would have a lot of managerial say. MacPhail is going to be in charge of the franchise with player descisions and I am sure they told Girardi that things would be different. I am surpised that you don't see that. I have a hard time believing that Girardi would take the job if they told him everything would be the same.

Girardi would be the first step into a youth movement with spending cash for Girardi when he gets this ship turned around.
What makes you think MacPhail is the guy to build a winning baseball team here? Lot of Cubs fans call him McFail. What'd he have, one winning season in ten years? He's been out of baseball management for like the past year--I just really don't think he's got what it takes to turn this ship around.

It starts with the GM. We need to get a new one. Unless MacPhail tears it all down and trades Miggy and Trax and Walker and Bradford and Mora and Roberts and all them, he's going to give Girardi this team with maybe the addition of Torri Hunter and ask him to get us looking like a winning team.

It's the same thing Girardi did in Florida. He took a young solid group of guys and made the fans think they had enough there to win. Now that same team's still out there sans him and they're clearly not a playoff team.

If Girardi is able to get us 81 wins, I have no doubt we'll think we're contenders again and sign Hunter in the offseason and upgrade the bullpen once again and continue to stay the status quo.

[Sports Guy]

What makes you think MacPhail is the guy to build a winning baseball team here? Lot of Cubs fans call him McFail. What'd he have, one winning season in ten years? He's been out of baseball management for like the past year--I just really don't think he's got what it takes to turn this ship around.

It starts with the GM. We need to get a new one. Unless MacPhail tears it all down and trades Miggy and Trax and Walker and Bradford and Mora and Roberts and all them, he's going to give Girardi this team with maybe the addition of Torri Hunter and ask him to get us looking like a winning team.

It's the same thing Girardi did in Florida. He took a young solid group of guys and made the fans think they had enough there to win. Now that same team's still out there sans him and they're clearly not a playoff team.

If Girardi is able to get us 81 wins, I have no doubt we'll think we're contenders again and sign Hunter in the offseason and upgrade the bullpen once again and continue to stay the status quo.

Why not? Cause his name wasn't in moneyball?

If Wood and Prior were healthy, would you even be having this conversation?

[bryanman8]

Why not? Cause his name wasn't in moneyball?

If Wood and Prior were healthy, would you even be having this conversation?

Because he's not the innovative mind we need to turn this ship around. His tenure with the Cubs was a massive failure involving mainly Jim Hendry and Dusty Baker, two people I would not want anywhere near my baseball team.

Do you really think a traditionalist like him is gonna come in and start tearing this ship apart? Do you really think he's not on the exact page with Angelos and hence why he got the job? Angelos only cares about putting enough fans in the seats by hoving around .500. He's not going to tolerate 3 or so straight awful years to rebuild.

You were one of the biggest proponents of tearing it all up and remain one, SG. Please, don't be so easy and think MacPhail is actually going to do anything right.

[boogidownoriole]

I was just listening to Gammons on the Michael Kay show on the way home and he was really praising the Orioles moves if they get Girardi. He said this could be the start of the Orioles being the Orioles.
And he said he was just speaking with Stark and they both agreed that the Orioles will be on their way

Then, earlier, Kay had Schmuck on the show for a while and Schmuck was praising the Orioles starting pitchers (while saying the hitting is average) and that Tejada will be dealt.

Its great hearing so much Orioles stuff

[Sports Guy]

Because he's not the innovative mind we need to turn this ship around. His tenure with the Cubs was a massive failure involving mainly Jim Hendry and Dusty Baker, two people I would not want anywhere near my baseball team.

Do you really think a traditionalist like him is gonna come in and start tearing this ship apart? Do you really think he's not on the exact page with Angelos and hence why he got the job? Angelos only cares about putting enough fans in the seats by hoving around .500. He's not going to tolerate 3 or so straight awful years to rebuild.

You were one of the biggest proponents of tearing it all up and remain one, SG. Please, don't be so easy and think MacPhail is actually going to do anything right.

I don't know what he will do but i know i won't dismiss him at this point. He was the head of the Twins when they won and was 2 health ace starters away from having a legit shot in the NL central.

Bottom line is he has already stated that playoffs are the goal, not 500 like our current regime.

Now, the question is how does he achieve this? Does he think we just need to add on or do a full rebuild?

I am not sure what having an innovative mind has to do with anything here.

No one is asking for anything drastic..Just the obvious.

[lostinlife28]

Because he's not the innovative mind we need to turn this ship around. His tenure with the Cubs was a massive failure involving mainly Jim Hendry and Dusty Baker, two people I would not want anywhere near my baseball team.

Do you really think a traditionalist like him is gonna come in and start tearing this ship apart? Do you really think he's not on the exact page with Angelos and hence why he got the job? Angelos only cares about putting enough fans in the seats by hoving around .500. He's not going to tolerate 3 or so straight awful years to rebuild.

You were one of the biggest proponents of tearing it all up and remain one, SG. Please, don't be so easy and think MacPhail is actually going to do anything right.

I really not sure why people see him in such a bad light. While things didn't always work for him in chicago, he made moves. He spent money. He went out and signed a WS manager. He was a foul ball away from going to his 3rd WS. I would much rather have a GM/Ops guy that isn't afraid to make moves. Especially one who has a POSITIVE track record.

[The Wedge]

As much as I agree with you, I really wish people would stop saying he was a foul ball away from a WS in 2003. That happened in the 8th inning, not with 2 outs in the ninth. Yeah, it changed the make up of the game, but who knows what would have happened in the ninth.

[lostinlife28]

As much as I agree with you, I really wish people would stop saying he was a foul ball away from a WS in 2003. That happened in the 8th inning, not with 2 outs in the ninth. Yeah, it changed the make up of the game, but who knows what would have happened in the ninth.

Ok, a foul ball, and 3 outs away from a WS :)

[bryanman8]

I'm still not sold that he's going to rebuild at all. Have you heard him say anything about dealing Tejada? Mora? Roberts? How do you know he's not just going to be another one of PA's puppets? Has he really sold the team with a plan and a process like a good GM should? It seems like he's just going off his resume and has a new title with the O's. I don't think he's put nearly enough thought into what this team should do and that's why I, like you, really hope we don't get Girardi and give him some time to realize he needs to tear this whole team down right now.

The smartest way to do that is by getting an innovative GM.

[The Wedge]

I'm still not sold that he's going to rebuild at all. Have you heard him say anything about dealing Tejada? Mora? Roberts? How do you know he's not just going to be another one of PA's puppets? Has he really sold the team with a plan and a process like a good GM should? It seems like he's just going off his resume and has a new title with the O's. I don't think he's put nearly enough thought into what this team should do and that's why I, like you, really hope we don't get Girardi and give him some time to realize he needs to tear this whole team down right now.

The smartest way to do that is by getting an innovative GM.

We really are a fast food nation.

[eddie83]

I'm still not sold that he's going to rebuild at all. Have you heard him say anything about dealing Tejada? Mora? Roberts? How do you know he's not just going to be another one of PA's puppets? Has he really sold the team with a plan and a process like a good GM should? It seems like he's just going off his resume and has a new title with the O's. I don't think he's put nearly enough thought into what this team should do and that's why I, like you, really hope we don't get Girardi and give him some time to realize he needs to tear this whole team down right now.

The smartest way to do that is by getting an innovative GM.

Do you want him to tell the whole baseball world of what his plans are? A man with his resume isn't going to be a puppet, it's not like he would have a problem finding another job.

[TonySoprano]

I'm still not sold that he's going to rebuild at all. Have you heard him say anything about dealing Tejada? Mora? Roberts? How do you know he's not just going to be another one of PA's puppets? Has he really sold the team with a plan and a process like a good GM should? It seems like he's just going off his resume and has a new title with the O's. I don't think he's put nearly enough thought into what this team should do and that's why I, like you, really hope we don't get Girardi and give him some time to realize he needs to tear this whole team down right now.

The smartest way to do that is by getting an innovative GM.
Why don't we give him a few weeks to do what he said he was going to do, watch, read, and listen, before making judgement as to what he will do?

[bryanman8]

Why don't we give him a few weeks to do what he said he was going to do, watch, read, and listen, before making judgement as to what he will do?
I lost my patience with this franchise a long time ago. Things right now don't seem any different. They need to show me otherwise. The trade deadline is not too far away. I won't be happy until Tejada and everyone old or overvalued is dealt.

[Moose Milligan]

Wow, he just gets introduced today and all of a sudden people are ready to lynch him cause he hasn't explored trading Tejada yet?

I've seen a lot of wacky things on this board, this has to be up near the top...

[AgentOrange]

I lost my patience with this franchise a long time ago. Things right now don't seem any different. They need to show me otherwise. The trade deadline is not too far away. I won't be happy until Tejada and everyone old or overvalued is dealt.

The whole point is that this hiring is actually showing something. This guy needs to get in there and evaluate what is going on.

There very well could be a bunch of trades now that he is in charge. We need to give him time to do so. You can lose your patience all you want with the franchise, but this guy needs more time. The Franchise is actually doing something now, see if it works.

[Trace21230]

I lost my patience with this franchise a long time ago. Things right now don't seem any different. They need to show me otherwise. The trade deadline is not too far away. I won't be happy until Tejada and everyone old or overvalued is dealt.
I'd say a lot of fans have lost their patience with the franchise, but you are being outright ridiculous if you think that MacPhail is supposed to be trading "Tejada and everyone old or overvalued" on his first day.

You're kidding, right?

[Sports Guy]

I lost my patience with this franchise a long time ago. Things right now don't seem any different. They need to show me otherwise. The trade deadline is not too far away. I won't be happy until Tejada and everyone old or overvalued is dealt.

Bryan, i agree that he has to show us and that rebuilding is the only way to do this correctly.

But what do you want him to say? That he is going to trade everyone? He has had the job for 5 minutes, he isn't going to come out and do that.

He is new to the organization, just like anyone would be, so he has to evaluate what we have.

Maybe he will be awful and maybe he will be great.

JUdging by what he said today, he is the best thing to happen to this franchise in a very long time. Now, let's see if he can follow it up.

I liked what Maz said in his press conference and thought he would be our manager for a long time but he quickly changed after that.

So yes, we need to see him actually do it but no reason to doubt him at this point IMO.

[33rd&Ellerslie]

Wow, he just gets introduced today and all of a sudden people are ready to lynch him cause he hasn't explored trading Tejada yet?

I've seen a lot of wacky things on this board, this has to be up near the top...

Hello! My name is Andy MacPhail! I am the new COO of the Orioles. Not only am I assuming the role today, however since Monday I have been hard at work overhauling this once proud organization! I am happy to announce that we have reached the following agreements:

Kevin Millar and Freddie Bynum will be heading to Texas and in exchange, the Rangers have been kind enough to give us Mark Teixiera. Oh Joy! we signed him to an extension through 2010.

Alex Rodriguez is so stinking tired of all the media crap in N.Y. and the fact that it will always be "Jeter's Team" That the Yankees have traded him straight up for Miguel Tejada! I just hope Miguel is never caught outside a hotel with an escort! Silly New Yorkers!

Melvin Mora has waived his No-Trade clause and we are sending him and Corey Patterson to the Mets in exchange for David Wright and Lastings Milledge.

No one would take Jay Payton off our hands, gosh darn it!. but we did get Jason Bay off the Pirates for a stinkin steal! Hey the pirates aren't going anywhere soon and they really needed a catcher to bat in critical game situation so we sent Paul Bako, thus reducing Payton's role on the team.

Tomorrow I will completely overhaul the bullpen; I should have done this yesterday but I had to have dinner with the wife and kids, My Bad!

Oh, we are calling up Jon Knott and J.R. House and sending Castillo down.

I can't for the freaking life of me figure out why MacPhail couldn't pull this off! Who hired this frickin slacker?

Sorry, my first attempt at sarcasm on the board! I don't mean to offend and apologize if I'm over the top!

[blahblah]

Hello! My name is Andy MacPhail! I am the new COO of the Orioles. Not only am I assuming the role today, however since Monday I have been hard at work overhauling this once proud organization! I am happy to announce that we have reached the following agreements:

Kevin Millar and Freddie Bynum will be heading to Texas and in exchange, the Rangers have been kind enough to give us Mark Teixiera. Oh Joy! we signed him to an extension through 2010.

Alex Rodriguez is so stinking tired of all the media crap in N.Y. and the fact that it will always be "Jeter's Team" That the Yankees have traded him straight up for Miguel Tejada! I just hope Miguel is never caught outside a hotel with an escort! Silly New Yorkers!

Melvin Mora has waived his No-Trade clause and we are sending him and Corey Patterson to the Mets in exchange for David Wright and Lastings Milledge.

No one would take Jay Payton off our hands, gosh darn it!. but we did get Jason Bay off the Pirates for a stinkin steal! Hey the pirates aren't going anywhere soon and they really needed a catcher to bat in critical game situation so we sent Paul Bako, thus reducing Payton's role on the team.

Tomorrow I will completely overhaul the bullpen; I should have done this yesterday but I had to have dinner with the wife and kids, My Bad!

Oh, we are calling up Jon Knott and J.R. House and sending Castillo down.

I can't for the freaking life of me figure out why MacPhail couldn't pull this off! Who hired this frickin slacker?

Sorry, my first attempt at sarcasm on the board! I don't mean to offend and apologize if I'm over the top!

Thank you for allowing me to spill half a cola slurpee all over myself. It
was worth it.

Elliot