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View Full Version : Jim Thome, Hall of Famer?


Moose Milligan
07-05-2007, 11:02 PM
One of the things I enjoy about this site is the Hall of Fame debates. I often find that people arguing for and against make really compelling arguments.

I've been wondering about Jim Thome lately and since we've had a chance to watch him in this series, I wondered what you guys thought of him.

Baseball reference has his most similar comp to Jose Canseco which I find to be pretty strange seeing as Thome has a bit higher batting average (.282 to .266) and a significantly higher on base & (.410 to .353).

Thome's only been an all star 4 times and finished in the top 5 for mvp voting once. He's 4th place in all time strikeouts but he's also 4th place in at bats per homerun behind McGwire, Ruth and Bonds (Yes, I couldn't believe it either, I did a double take, too.)

Baseball reference also compares him to Carlos Delgado, Manny Ramirez, Juan Gonzalez, Mark McGwire, Duke Snider, Willie Stargell, Albert Belle, Jack Clark and Johnny Mize. Mixed company, I'd say.

One thing I like to look at is average per 162. For his career Thome's averaged a .974 OPS, 40 homers, 112 RBI.

I'm not sure what to think....the awards aren't really there, but when you look at his total body of work, it's pretty hard to deny him. Then again he's spent most of his career as a 1B/DH...

I think if he were to retire today, he wouldn't get in on his first ballot...I think if he goes another 2-3 strong years he might be able to get in on his first try.

What say you?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/thomeji01.shtml
mweb
07-05-2007, 11:23 PM
Assuming he plays a couple more years at a productive level, it will be hard to deny him. Will have over 500 hr's, a career WARP3 of around 120(108.8 right now), he's 34th all time in OPS+, 37th in OBP, and 8.37 RC/27.
Moose Milligan
07-07-2007, 07:48 AM
Assuming he plays a couple more years at a productive level, it will be hard to deny him. Will have over 500 hr's, a career WARP3 of around 120(108.8 right now), he's 34th all time in OPS+, 37th in OBP, and 8.37 RC/27.

Dunno if 500 homers make you an automatic lock anymore. Maybe if Thome gets 550+ he'll be a first ballot HOFer.
mweb
07-07-2007, 07:56 AM
Dunno if 500 homers make you an automatic lock anymore. Maybe if Thome gets 550+ he'll be a first ballot HOFer.

500 hr's might not be a lock anymore, but considering his other numbers, he should get in assuming a solid finish to his career. And he'll likely get over the 550 mark anyway, could easily get to 600 as well if he can actually stay somewhat healthy and plays 4 more seasons.
rolliefingers
07-07-2007, 10:16 AM
Baseball reference also compares him to Carlos Delgado, Manny Ramirez, Juan Gonzalez, Mark McGwire, Duke Snider, Willie Stargell, Albert Belle, Jack Clark and Johnny Mize. Mixed company, I'd say.


Huh? Every one of those guys is a HoFer except Belle, Gonzalez and Clark. And the first two would have been if not for injuries.

He's in, without a doubt.
Sports Guy
07-07-2007, 12:03 PM
I think he should be but he will need some more numbers to get in(like MWEb said).

In this era, his numbers will be taken with a grain of salt even though i doubt he did any steroids.

His back may prevent him from hitting 600+ homers, so maybe the committee takes that into consideration.

EDIT: As of right now, i don't think he is in. His peak was solid but not sure if it is HOF worthy..Only a 10 win player once.
MChance
07-07-2007, 04:30 PM
In this era, his numbers will be taken with a grain of salt even though i doubt he did any steroids.



Yup. Some idiot didn't vote for Cal because of the era he played in. Not that he really deserves it, but I'm sure people are more skeptical about Thome than Cal if only based on his home run totals.

Regardless, he should get in.
Migrant Redbird
07-07-2007, 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by Moose Milligan

Baseball reference also compares him to Carlos Delgado, Manny Ramirez, Juan Gonzalez, Mark McGwire, Duke Snider, Willie Stargell, Albert Belle, Jack Clark and Johnny Mize. Mixed company, I'd say.

Huh? Every one of those guys is a HoFer except Belle, Gonzalez and Clark. And the first two would have been if not for injuries.

He's in, without a doubt.

Begging your pardon, but Delgado and Ramirez are still playing. Gonzalez might still be too, for all I know. Ramirez and Delgado might be locks, but I doubt if Gonzalez ever gets in. McGwire's entry is still very much in doubt as well, because of the steroids controversy and the almost universal conviction that McGwire must have been a user. Jack Clark's career was also limited by injuries that shortened his 1984 season with the Giants and his 1986 season with the Cardinals, but he still has more hits than Carlos Delgado and Todd Helton and he's 81st on the home run list (340), 138th on the RBI list (1180), 153rd on the Runs Created list (1243), and 89th in OPS+ (137). I don't think that Jack Clark should have gotten in -- there are other Cardinals like Kenny Boyer and Ted Simmons who deserved it more -- but Jack wasn't chopped liver by any means either.