View Full Version : Law's biggest disapointment from Futures Game: Beato
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/allstar07/insider/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=2930070
Here's what he said about Pedro: "Sat at 87 mph with a below-average curveball, and his delivery is a train-wreck, with a long arm action, a stiff landing, and a lot of effort."
dorfmac
07-09-2007, 02:18 AM
I was actually at the game today - I showed up the inning before they put Beato in. He came in with 2-outs and got the strike out. He started off with some change-ups to get the batter to two strikes, and then made an 18 MPH jump with the fastball for the K. I thoguht he looked good, but I'm sure the sportswriters know more than me.
mikezpen
07-09-2007, 03:23 AM
Speaking of disappointments, what the helle has happened to Brandon Erbe?
bigbird
07-09-2007, 07:27 AM
Speaking of disappointments, what the helle has happened to Brandon Erbe?
He's a teenager in Frederick (High A ball). He's still way young....
birdtown
07-09-2007, 07:34 AM
and baseball america had Beato sitting around 92 mph. I was hoping to hear something closer to the mid 90's, but 92 is certainly better than 87mph
He's a teenager in Frederick (High A ball). He's still way young....
He's young, but that doesn't change the fact that his year has been disappointing. Maybe he's making adjustments and it will be better for him in the long run, but the results sure aren't what anyone expected, IMO.
McLovin
07-09-2007, 09:24 AM
Speaking of disappointments, what the helle has happened to Brandon Erbe?
He hasn't been that bad. Take away his recent 6 run start and his 12 run start, and his ERA is an even 3.50.
Now I know those two starts can't be taken away, but he's had a decent year otherwise.
Mackus
07-09-2007, 09:30 AM
Yeah you'd like to see better numbers out of Erbe, but he's still a fantatic prospect. He could take one year at each level AND miss a year due to injury and still be in Baltimore at 22.
Tony-OH
07-09-2007, 09:49 AM
Beato is a starter. It's tough for a young kid to warm up differently and then come in and pitch in these types of games. Unless he's hurt, that's not the kid I saw last year in Aberdeen.
Law can only report what he saw, but I'm sure even he will tell you that you can't make a full assessment off of watching a kid pitch to few batters in an all-star type game.
Chollie Eckman
07-09-2007, 10:05 AM
The left to right movement on that strikeout pitch was awesome. Every one of his pitches has serious movement from what I saw.
BTW, did you notice Chamberlain's fastball in the video link blow the batter away. Wow. Now that's dominating.
alexei606
07-09-2007, 10:37 AM
Here is the take on Beato from BA; seems to jive with Law (except for velo). However, I seem to remember an NL Scout not liking Olson either last year.
One pitcher scouts were unimpressed with Sunday was Orioles righthander Pedro Beato. A supplemental first-rounder last year, Beato's velocity was in the low 90s, but his arm action and max-effort delivery left scouts with several question marks.
"Of all the guys the World team threw out there, he was the guy that didn't jump out at me," an N.L. scout said. "His arm action is long and not very pretty at all, he doesn't repeat his delivery well and there just isn't good life on the fastball. His stuff was flat and he didn't show much ability to set up hitters with what stuff he did have. I just wasn't on him and I expected more."
Chollie Eckman
07-09-2007, 10:45 AM
Here is the take on Beato from BA; seems to jive with Law (except for velo). However, I seem to remember an NL Scout not liking Olson either last year.
He pitched to 2 people and this "scout" has a full opinion on the guy? How in the world does he do that? Vulcan mind-meld? That's why some of this "anonymous scout" BS needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Three Run Homer
07-09-2007, 12:27 PM
Beato's results at Frederick this year are not exactly overwhelming. I think we need to admit that he's been a disappointment so far. Not all high draft picks work out. This one might not.
orioole28
07-09-2007, 12:34 PM
Beato's results at Frederick this year are not exactly overwhelming. I think we need to admit that he's been a disappointment so far. Not all high draft picks work out. This one might not.
Correction: Delmarva
Jenius
07-09-2007, 02:53 PM
Beato's results at Frederick this year are not exactly overwhelming. I think we need to admit that he's been a disappointment so far. Not all high draft picks work out. This one might not.
Maybe not. But it's awfully harsh to start calling a prospect a disappointment at age 20. IMHO, Erbe, Beato, and Snyder all need time before we get to that conclusion.
Zaimoku
07-09-2007, 10:15 PM
He pitched to 2 people and this "scout" has a full opinion on the guy? How in the world does he do that?
How in the world does a doctor to look at a blood test and figure out what's right or wrong right away?
Professionals don't need two years to make a judgment on the quality of the guy's delivery.
Chollie Eckman
07-09-2007, 10:38 PM
How in the world does a doctor to look at a blood test and figure out what's right or wrong right away?
Professionals don't need two years to make a judgment on the quality of the guy's delivery.
Bad analogy. Try again. If the same "scout" said the same things about KRod, Oswalt, Pedro, Lincecum, et. al. would you still defend him?
Are you agreeing with the "scout" on his 2 batter opinion of Beato? The outing that produced a bloop single and a K?
Is it OK for scouts to watch one-half inning of a game and leave resting assured that he saw all he could see about a pitcher? Or is it all in that one blood test/half inning?
Professionals, eh? I know they get paid for what they do, but not very much. You seem to put a lot of faith in anonymous scouts. Who knows, maybe that guy was the one who told us to draft Chris Smith. Would you trust his opinion then?
Zaimoku
07-09-2007, 11:36 PM
Bad analogy. Try again. If the same "scout" said the same things about KRod, Oswalt, Pedro, Lincecum, et. al. would you still defend him?
Professionals are professionals--they've been trained to do what they do, and they don't need a lot of time to make certain judgments in their field. It's an excellent analogy, and you haven't explained why it's not, other than just saying so. "If the same scout said..." is the classic strawman. How would you know what the same scout said or didn't say?
Who knows, maybe that guy was the one who told us to draft Chris Smith. Would you trust his opinion then?
His opinion would have been irrelevant regarding an ex post facto judgment on Smith, who suffered what turned out to be a career-ending injury in minor league camp before pitching in even one game for the Orioles minor league teams.
Chollie Eckman
07-10-2007, 12:02 AM
An excellent analogy? Comparing something that is extremely subjective(scouting) to something that is scientific is the epitome of "apples to oranges".
Do you think the anonymous NL scout is excellent too?
blazer
07-10-2007, 01:40 PM
An excellent analogy? Comparing something that is extremely subjective(scouting) to something that is scientific is the epitome of "apples to oranges".
Do you think the anonymous NL scout is excellent too?
Exactly...scouting is not an exact science, much of the medical field is, especially blood testing. If our scouts only saw every possible draft pick for only two at bats (hitting or pitching), I would have very little faith that they were making the right decisions. To come up with an accurate assessment you need to see someone in multiple games, both live and in person. Two at bats shows nothing, especially for a starting pitcher who is coming into a game as a relief pitcher.
dorfmac
07-10-2007, 01:49 PM
I think that we also need to keep in mind that many of the players in that game are at higher levels than Beato - mostly AAA and AA from what I saw. It shouldn't come as much of a suprise if Beato was who they were least impressed with because he's a lower-level pitcher, right? The comparisons were being made to higher-level competition.
Zaimoku
07-10-2007, 10:25 PM
If our scouts only saw every possible draft pick for only two at bats (hitting or pitching), I would have very little faith that they were making the right decisions. To come up with an accurate assessment you need to see someone in multiple games, both live and in person. Two at bats shows nothing, especially for a starting pitcher who is coming into a game as a relief pitcher.
Perhaps you're forgetting what the scout said.
"Sat at 87 mph with a below-average curveball, and his delivery is a train-wreck, with a long arm action, a stiff landing, and a lot of effort."
The scout's watched how many thousands of people pitch in his career? (With the intention of judging their ability.) And you're saying--based on your scouting knowledge?--that two batters isn't enough for what this scout reported?
I don't think so.
Maybe Beato has a better curve ball that he didn't show. But that's not what the scout was judging. He was asked to look at and evaluate what Beato actually did.
Heck, I'm not a scout and all it took was two batters for me to figure out that Denny Bautista's delivery was a train wreck, to cite just one example.
The comparison with the doctor is apt because these people are professionals who do what they do for a living--to eat and make house payments--every day, and have done it for years.
blazer
07-11-2007, 03:59 AM
Perhaps you're forgetting what the scout said.
"Sat at 87 mph with a below-average curveball, and his delivery is a train-wreck, with a long arm action, a stiff landing, and a lot of effort."
The scout's watched how many thousands of people pitch in his career? (With the intention of judging their ability.) And you're saying--based on your scouting knowledge?--that two batters isn't enough for what this scout reported?
I don't think so.
Maybe Beato has a better curve ball that he didn't show. But that's not what the scout was judging. He was asked to look at and evaluate what Beato actually did.
Heck, I'm not a scout and all it took was two batters for me to figure out that Denny Bautista's delivery was a train wreck, to cite just one example.
The comparison with the doctor is apt because these people are professionals who do what they do for a living--to eat and make house payments--every day, and have done it for years.
Perhaps you are forgetting that he came in from the bullpen. Over the past two seasons he has done that exacty zero times in 42 games pitched. This could very easily explain his 5 mph drop in velocity of his fastball, especially if he was unable to go through his normal warm up routine.
In terms of the delivery, this is not something I have ever heard before about Beato, so it suprised me to hear. If this is something that is common knowledge, please site additional sources. Perhaps this was the first time this particular scout has seen Beato.
Testing blood is close to an exact science. Scouting is not, or every team would be very good at it.
Zaimoku
07-11-2007, 06:17 AM
Perhaps you are forgetting that he came in from the bullpen. Over the past two seasons he has done that exacty zero times in 42 games pitched. This could very easily explain his 5 mph drop in velocity of his fastball, especially if he was unable to go through his normal warm up routine.
In terms of the delivery, this is not something I have ever heard before about Beato, so it suprised me to hear. If this is something that is common knowledge, please site additional sources. Perhaps this was the first time this particular scout has seen Beato.
The part about not warming up is pure speculation. You don't know, I don't know, so why bring it up? The "common knowledge" is a new part of the thread for me, so why bring that up, either?
The scout saw what he saw, and I tend to believe professionals when conducting their business rather than Internet board scuttlebutt.
An observation about poor pitching mechanics at lower A ball is hardly "an inexact science".
NoVaO
07-11-2007, 02:56 PM
Its possible that he struggles pitching from the stretch. No scout saw him pitch from his wind-up.
None on this year - 4.34 BB/9, 8.95 K/9
Men on this year - 4.71 BB/9, 5.94 K/9
The innings are virtually the same.
Even last year, the same sort of splits:
None on - 3.58 BB/9, 9.37 K/9
Men on - 3.70 BB/9, 6.66 K/9
You see the exact same splits (slight increase in BBs, a heavy decrease in Ks) in Aberdeen as he had in Delmarva just adjusted for competition.
I saw his video, and yes his arm action is fairly long. If he shortens it up, and becomes more efficient using his body, he should experience an increase in velocity. I will also note that Law's gun was a bit slow. The stadium had Beato anywhere from 89-91 so if Law got 87, that was on the low end of what he threw.
There was effort in his delivery but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The fact that he does put effort in his delivery and isn't able to throw it very hard tells you that he isn't using his body efficiently so there are certainly some corrections to make.
bigbird
07-11-2007, 04:36 PM
Has Law ever said positive things about the O's. If he were a Yankee prospect Baeto would have been awesome.
tywright
07-11-2007, 05:46 PM
Has Law ever said positive things about the O's. If he were a Yankee prospect Baeto would have been awesome.
bingo
BA had Beato at 92
Leitch
07-11-2007, 05:56 PM
The comparison with the doctor is apt because these people are professionals who do what they do for a living--to eat and make house payments--every day, and have done it for years.
LAWL
It's akin to taking two of the tiniest measurable units of blood as your sample. Doctors take hell of blood depending of the test.
DrShorebird
07-12-2007, 12:26 AM
bingo
BA had Beato at 92
Tonight (Wed 7-12) Pedro's fast ball topped out at 94 on the Shorebirds official radar and sat at 92/93 most of the time. He has been at about 93 all year and has not reached his 95/96 yet (according to Pedro).
Chollie Eckman
07-12-2007, 12:29 AM
Tonight (Wed 7-12) Pedro's fast ball topped out at 94 on the Shorebirds official radar and sat at 92/93 most of the time. He has been at about 93 all year and has not reached his 95/96 yet (according to Pedro).
Thanks Doc. I trust you more than an anonymous scout. BTW, do you do blood work too? ;)
tywright
07-12-2007, 11:01 AM
Tonight (Wed 7-12) Pedro's fast ball topped out at 94 on the Shorebirds official radar and sat at 92/93 most of the time. He has been at about 93 all year and has not reached his 95/96 yet (according to Pedro).
Good to hear...thanks!
I didn't believe Keith Law to begin with
DrShorebird
07-13-2007, 03:01 PM
BTW, do you do blood work too? ;)
Only on laboratory animals. I'm a biochemist/nutritionist/sports nutritionist.