View Full Version : NBA ref fixing games
Baltimoron
07-20-2007, 10:01 AM
Fox Sports (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7042010?MSNHPHMA) reporting that an NBA ref will be arrested by the FBI for fixing NBA games to pay off gambling debts to organized crime.
Yikes. What a disaster for the NBA, confirming everyone's half-serious sense that certain refs can be counted on to extend playoff series. Any guess which one it is?
ESPN too (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2943095)
CrimsonTribe
07-20-2007, 10:13 AM
Wow, I mean, we always joke about this, but I didn't think it was true. I just thought the refs all sucked.
ccbird
07-20-2007, 10:17 AM
Not that suprising sadly. I really hope professional refs in sports go through extensive backround checks and somehow have their integrity and morals measured. There is nothing worse than hearing a story like this or another where a ref shows favortism in a game for whatever reason.
beaner
07-20-2007, 10:52 AM
Now I can't stop thinking about the NBA Finals last year (Dallas/Miami), some of the worst calls I've ever seen.
Camden_yardbird
07-20-2007, 11:14 AM
Given how good refs are at spotting fouls I often wonder when I see blatantly bad calls. I wouldn't be suprised if it was a much deeper seeded problem, spanning a few different sports.
To me it makes sense that the NBA would be the first league they found this type of corruption in.
Anyone for Jerry Crawford as the first guess?
beaner
07-20-2007, 11:29 AM
Bennett Salvatore
AgentOrange
07-20-2007, 02:37 PM
Tim Donaghy was the one.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2943095
beaner
07-20-2007, 03:04 PM
There goes the Maloof brothers dream of an NBA team in Vegas...No Las Vegas Palms, sorry guys.
Pedro Cerrano
07-20-2007, 06:05 PM
Wow this has potential to be an absolute disaster. Especially if some of those games he helped fix were playoff games.
beaner
07-20-2007, 06:41 PM
Wow this has potential to be an absolute disaster. Especially if some of those games he helped fix were playoff games.
Yea, this could be terrible for a league that isn't exactly the kings of positive PR.
There goes the Maloof brothers dream of an NBA team in Vegas...No Las Vegas Palms, sorry guys.
It probably wasn't happening anyway, but I don't see why this makes it less likely.
"Kornegay said legal sports betting in Nevada represents a fraction of sports betting worldwide, with 98.5 percent of all action taken outside the state. Clayton cited a 2005 estimate by the National Gambling Impact Study Commission that found $380 billion is wagered on illegal sports betting, compared with $2.25 billion in legal sports betting in Nevada."
"Goodman argues that legalized gambling, monitored by the Nevada Gaming Commission, prevents these types of suspicious activities.
"We're the only regulatory agency in the world that really looks at unusual activity as far as the movement of the line and that type of conduct," he said. "I think it's a good thing that Las Vegas has the type of regulation that makes sure that bad things don't happen."'
A team in Vegas does not increase the odds of anything like this happening imo.
beaner
07-20-2007, 08:01 PM
It probably wasn't happening anyway, but I don't see why this makes it less likely.
"Kornegay said legal sports betting in Nevada represents a fraction of sports betting worldwide, with 98.5 percent of all action taken outside the state. Clayton cited a 2005 estimate by the National Gambling Impact Study Commission that found $380 billion is wagered on illegal sports betting, compared with $2.25 billion in legal sports betting in Nevada."
"Goodman argues that legalized gambling, monitored by the Nevada Gaming Commission, prevents these types of suspicious activities.
"We're the only regulatory agency in the world that really looks at unusual activity as far as the movement of the line and that type of conduct," he said. "I think it's a good thing that Las Vegas has the type of regulation that makes sure that bad things don't happen."'
A team in Vegas does not increase the odds of anything like this happening imo.
I agree with you, it probably wasn't going to happen. But you know how Stern is, he'll point to this as a reason that gambling could corrupt the NBA's image even more with a franchise in Vegas. Obviously you can gamble anywhere, but image wise, this league doesn't need another hit.
I can see Stern using that, but he probably won't be the commish that much longer. I don't really see it as being an image hit though.
beaner
07-20-2007, 08:11 PM
I can see Stern using that, but he probably won't be the commish that much longer. I don't really see it as being an image hit though.
I don't personally see it as a image hit gambling wise either, but the violence on All Star weekend was ridiculous. A friend of mine is a bouncer at Pure Nightclub in Caesar's Palace, and he said the criminal element that weekend was unlike anything he's ever seen. Now obviously that wouldn't be the case all the time, but I think that scared the NBA too. We both agree that it won't happen, at least for a while.
I don't personally see it as a image hit gambling wise either, but the violence on All Star weekend was ridiculous. A friend of mine is a bouncer at Pure Nightclub in Caesar's Palace, and he said the criminal element that weekend was unlike anything he's ever seen. Now obviously that wouldn't be the case all the time, but I think that scared the NBA too. We both agree that it won't happen, at least for a while.
Yeah, the violence at the AS weekend along with Stern's wishes to stay out of Vegas are what I think will keep a team out of there in the short term. I don't think this ref things adds to that much if at all.
They do have summer league there though, and I don't think there's any violence issues. That weekend, I think a lot of criminals migrated to Vegas(well the one's that didn't already live there) because they knew there would be a lot of easy and wealthy targets walking around.
geschinger
07-20-2007, 09:03 PM
They do have summer league there though, and I don't think there's any violence issues. That weekend, I think a lot of criminals migrated to Vegas(well the one's that didn't already live there) because they knew there would be a lot of easy and wealthy targets walking around.
I worked in the Vegas area for the better part of a year including AS weekend and the criminal element and violence was much more pronounced that weekend. In general I don't think Vegas is any worse than many other cities.
I worked in the Vegas area for the better part of a year including AS weekend and the criminal element and violence was much more pronounced that weekend. In general I don't think Vegas is any worse than many other cities.
I agree...
RayFink1e
07-20-2007, 10:40 PM
I dont think one ref could change the outcome of a game. Maybe a couple points at the end of a game in terms of foul shots and stuff. But I would think his crew would notice it after awhile
Of course 1 ref can change the outcome of the game. 1 call can change the outcome of the game, 1 ref who has a reason to be biased can make a lot more calls than that which can change the outcome. Hopefully he limited it to calls that just helped a team cover instead of changing who actually won the game, but that's obviously tough to control. It's not like this is college b-ball where there's huge point spreads.
Pedro Cerrano
07-21-2007, 12:30 AM
If he's real smart he can hide it. Call shooting fouls on guys that are poor FT% guys and then on the other side against good FT% guys. Do little things like turnovers and stuff.
The NBA is insanely fast-paced. Most times I bet, with just three officials out there, it's real hard to notice if a guy is fixing something.
ChaosLex
07-22-2007, 01:09 AM
I dont think one ref could change the outcome of a game. Maybe a couple points at the end of a game in terms of foul shots and stuff. But I would think his crew would notice it after awhile
I'm sure they're going to be reviewing a lot of the fourth quarters of playoff games he refereed.
Moose Milligan
07-22-2007, 11:04 AM
NBA game fixing has been going on for years. Look at what stars get preferential treatment on foul calls.
NBA game fixing has been going on for years. Look at what stars get preferential treatment on foul calls.
That's not game fixing, it's star treatment, big difference.
Pedro Cerrano
07-22-2007, 03:59 PM
Or it could have been game fixing under the guise of "star treatment."
geschinger
07-22-2007, 06:48 PM
Report: NBA ref at center of scandal expected to cooperate with probe (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2945224)
When the home team was favored by 0-4½ points, it went 5-12 in games officiated by Donaghy this season, according to Covers.com, a Web site that tracks referee trends. Home underdogs were 1-7 when the spread was 5-9.5 points.
Home team favorites 6-19 when he officiates... That seems terrible but I'm not much of a gambler to know if that number seems way out of line or not. Does that throw up a red flag for anyone?
DT undercover
07-22-2007, 06:57 PM
Report: NBA ref at center of scandal expected to cooperate with probe (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2945224)
Home team favorites 6-19 when he officiates... That seems terrible but I'm not much of a gambler to know if that number seems way out of line or not. Does that throw up a red flag for anyone?
I think the biggest thing I took from that article was the Heat/Knicks game, when the Knicks took close to 40 foul shots compared to 8 for the Heat, and that also inclued 8 technicals called on the Heat.
The Knicks were favored by 4 1/2 and won by only 6.
beaner
07-22-2007, 06:58 PM
Report: NBA ref at center of scandal expected to cooperate with probe (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2945224)
Home team favorites 6-19 when he officiates... That seems terrible but I'm not much of a gambler to know if that number seems way out of line or not. Does that throw up a red flag for anyone?
It's a fairly solid trend. Home favorites are the most popular bet in sports, so it is pretty telling. Someone made some serious money betting the dogs in those games.
It would be so interesting to see some game films of his games the past two years. Seeing what was or wasn't called down the stretch of games.
Birds of B'more
07-22-2007, 09:39 PM
It's a fairly solid trend. Home favorites are the most popular bet in sports, so it is pretty telling. Someone made some serious money betting the dogs in those games.
It would be so interesting to see some game films of his games the past two years. Seeing what was or wasn't called down the stretch of games.
People are already working to put together evidence to that effect.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Tim+Donaghy+games&search=Search
Birds of B'more
07-23-2007, 02:20 AM
NBA game fixing has been going on for years. Look at what stars get preferential treatment on foul calls.
Yeah, stars get preferential treatment in a lot of sports. Like boxing, which isn't exactly a sport anymore, but even in the old days, you had to overwhelmingly defeat a champion to take his belt........sometimes nothing short of a knockout would do it. And baseball........how often do we talk about how the MFYs seem to have their own strike zone that pretty much dictates anything above or below their belt-buckle is a ball?
That said, NBA refs are probably the worst among any of the major sports. Maybe it's because they aren't as well compensated as their peers in other sports (remember the whole 1st class airline ticket scandal)? I always thought that some of the star treatment was dictated by the league. Bill Simmons on ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070722&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1) makes a great point about how the lousy officiating may have affected the performance of US teams in international competition.
This perpetual leeway allows gifted athletes like Wade, Gilbert Arenas and LeBron James to drive recklessly into traffic in crunch time, knowing they can either score or draw a foul........If anything, LeBron's pre-2007 game depended on this leeway so much that he was completely ineffective in the 2006 World Championships; he kept bowling his way into the paint and waiting for calls that never came. The international refs almost seemed amused by him. The NBA refs would have been bailing him out.
Patient O.T.
07-23-2007, 09:52 AM
People are already working to put together evidence to that effect.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Tim+Donaghy+games&search=Search
Thats a shame, looking at the evidence from Game 3 of Suns-Spurs. Maybe the Suns would have won the Championship if not for Donaghy.
Birds of B'more
07-23-2007, 08:16 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2945224
Wow, I'm not so sure now this guy will ever go to trial.........he may not live that long.
Authorities believe former NBA referee Tim Donaghy will cooperate with their investigation that he made calls to affect the point spread in games on which he or associates had wagered, The New York Daily News reported Sunday, citing anonymous sources.
Two of the bookies Donaghy allegedly used to place bets are expected to be arrested after he surrenders as early as Tuesday, the newspaper reported.
Authorities do not know if the gambling scandal extends beyond Donaghy.
The Daily News, citing sources, reported that Donaghy's name was first heard on a wiretap during probes of the Gambino crime family over the past year. The newspaper reported that Donaghy was threatened into cooperating with the bookies, who allegedly won thousands of dollars with Donaghy's help.
Birds of B'more
07-23-2007, 08:35 PM
Of course 1 ref can change the outcome of the game. 1 call can change the outcome of the game, 1 ref who has a reason to be biased can make a lot more calls than that which can change the outcome. Hopefully he limited it to calls that just helped a team cover instead of changing who actually won the game, but that's obviously tough to control. It's not like this is college b-ball where there's huge point spreads.
Very interesting interview with Brandon Lang........the real-life guy who was played by Matthew McConaughey in "Two For The Money."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=expertexplainsNBAbets
ESPN.com: So explain then, how a referee could control the outcome of a game so that he or associates of his could win a bet?
BL: Totally with the fouls he calls. If he has fixed the total and has a number he's thinking of, he can get the team in the bonus earlier in the quarter. Let's say he wants a final score where both teams tally more than 205 points and he needs 59 points in the fourth quarter to make that happen. If he puts both teams in the penalty with 8:00 to go and every foul is a free throw, it's not too hard to have a 60-point quarter.
ESPN.com: So what do you think, given your experience, might have happened with Tim Donaghy?
BL: You see a lot of calls in the NBA, "Hey -- he didn't even touch him." But he's [under suspicion] because they will go back and watch every game he officiated, know the spread, know the totals, they'll watch the fourth quarter and they'll know exactly what games he [allegedly] fixed. One hundred percent, no questions asked, they'll know exactly.
They just have to look at the fourth quarter. That's where you'd be able to tell. I'm telling you -- it would have to be the total [points], not the winners or losers. You can't dictate a side, especially in the NBA. He couldn't take that chance. If someone gets injured or doesn't show up or is having a terrible night or whatever, you can't do it. But manipulating the total you can control from the very tip. If you need an over, a referee can dictate a high- or low-scoring game just by how he's calling it. It's going to come out.
ESPN.com: Given your expertise in watching and wagering on games, what influence does a referee or official have in the gambling outcome?
BL: If he has action on the game and wants something in particular to happen, I'd say 75 percent. I've been asked for years if games could be fixed. And I always told people not by players. Because the guys in the key positions who could get something done, your quarterbacks and running backs, are making millions and aren't going to risk it all to help some friend make $100,000. An official, though, could do it. In the NFL, there's a task force that on Monday reviews every critical call that came anywhere near the point spread. I don't believe that's ever been done in the NBA.
RayFink1e
07-25-2007, 12:26 PM
Top Ten Signs A Referee Is Fixing Games
He leads the league in blocked shots
When talking about the Spurs, he says "we"
After 6 seconds, calls a 24-second violation
He's drawing up plays
Befores tipoff, scoreboard reads 58 to nothing
Teams have scored a record number of two-pointers, three-pointers and eight pointers
Tossed one of the other officials out of the game
Has Eddie Brill's telephone number on speed dial
Miami Heat hasn't lost a game since Shaq promised to help the referee's fat son
The Knicks are winning
Someone did a study of the games where he was the ref, and of the 15 games that had abnormal betting on one side or another, all 15 games were won(against the spread) by the team that had the betting on their side!
Sorry, no link, heard it on sports talk radio today.
beaner
07-25-2007, 11:35 PM
Someone did a study of the games where he was the ref, and of the 15 games that had abnormal betting on one side or another, all 15 games were won(against the spread) by the team that had the betting on their side!
Sorry, no link, heard it on sports talk radio today.
I would think that the totals would be much easier to affect than the point spreads. Especially with the technical fouls, which he lead the league in giving I heard.
I would think that the totals would be much easier to affect than the point spreads. Especially with the technical fouls, which he lead the league in giving I heard.
I think it can easily be done either way, but it would be smarter to do the totals because it's not as big of a deal as long as you're being fair to the two teams.
BTW, calling two T's in a game only accounts for about 1% of the total points, and that's assuming they make the shots. So that's not that big of a deal.
AgentOrange
07-26-2007, 12:41 PM
I think it can easily be done either way, but it would be smarter to do the totals because it's not as big of a deal as long as you're being fair to the two teams.
BTW, calling two T's in a game only accounts for about 1% of the total points, and that's assuming they make the shots. So that's not that big of a deal.
That is true for Over/Under betting, but if it was for the spread, it could mean a bigger difference.
beaner
07-26-2007, 12:58 PM
I think it can easily be done either way, but it would be smarter to do the totals because it's not as big of a deal as long as you're being fair to the two teams.
BTW, calling two T's in a game only accounts for about 1% of the total points, and that's assuming they make the shots. So that's not that big of a deal.
I just think it would be easier to affect the total in my opinion, he could call fouls in the last 4 minutes in hopes that foul shots are made, or in the case of an under, not call anything so the clock keeps ticking.
Birds of B'more
07-26-2007, 09:54 PM
I think it can easily be done either way, but it would be smarter to do the totals because it's not as big of a deal as long as you're being fair to the two teams.
BTW, calling two T's in a game only accounts for about 1% of the total points, and that's assuming they make the shots. So that's not that big of a deal.
That depends. What if those 2 T's happen to be on the same player and he gets ejected? What if that player is a significant contributor and his absence hurts his team?
That depends. What if those 2 T's happen to be on the same player and he gets ejected? What if that player is a significant contributor and his absence hurts his team?
Beaner was talking about the point total. That what my response was to. If we're talking about point spread, then of course it matters if he ejects someone, but it's rare that a player gets ejected due to two T's.