Heyman on Tex Trade Talks

[Maverick2143]

Lists the Orioles with the other top teams.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/07/24/tuesday.scoop/index.html

Interesting note about Mcphail's possible reluctance to do any deal.

[SoPAOsFan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2947494

O's not mentioned, but the price has come down.
Again, I agree with either Cabrera as the center of a deal, or waiting till the offseason to sign him.

anyway, didn't see this posted yet

[Oriole Baseball]

Heyman reported the same thing on SI.com today. Made it sound like the Rangers want DCab and that he could be the O's if the Orioles give up DCab. However, he said MacPhail doesn't want to commit to a large contract since he has been around for about a month.

[paulcoates]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2947494


Again, I agree with either Cabrera as the center of a deal, or waiting till the offseason to sign him.

Do we have another Cabrera that we can part with?

[rolliefingers]

Must...stop...hand...from...swinging...machete...

[Elbren]

Must...stop...hand...from...swinging...machete...

LOL :D

Don't worry, you only have until NEXT December to keep seeing these threads.

[Oriole Baseball]

Give people a break. If you don't like the treads, then don't click on them. It was obvious by the title what the thread was about. Just because you are tired of it doesn't mean the rest of us can't discuss the topic. Some threads get to be 13 pages long and some of us don't feel like spending half an hour looking through all of the posts just to be able to discuss a topic.

Do everyone a favor, if your tired of reading a certain subject on the message board, don't click the thread.

[Rex Thunder]

Give people a break. If you don't like the treads, then don't click on them. It was obvious by the title what the thread was about. Just because you are tired of it doesn't mean the rest of us can't discuss the topic. Some threads get to be 13 pages long and some of us don't feel like spending half an hour looking through all of the posts just to be able to discuss a topic.

Do everyone a favor, if your tired of reading a certain subject on the message board, don't click the thread.

Well- when it's a sibject as repetitive as this- it should remain on a similar thread. It's getting ab it redundant. I found an article about Teixeira earlier today that I posted on the recent trade rumors thread- if you don't want to read 13 pages- skip to the last page. MOst people on this topic have kept up with the threads as they go. On this I have to agree that to see another new thread started on this same topic is just getting a little monotonous.

[33rdst]

The timing on Teixeira is all wrong. Our front office is focused on Wieters and Arrieta. They're going to spend a lot of money on those two, especially since they're both Boras' clients.

I think the Orioles would be better off if the Dodgers dealt for Teixeira. My lodgic tells he's more likely to leave there in a few years then he would if he were traded to Boston, New York or Atlanta.

[Oriole Baseball]

Well- when it's a sibject as repetitive as this- it should remain on a similar thread. It's getting ab it redundant. I found an article about Teixeira earlier today that I posted on the recent trade rumors thread- if you don't want to read 13 pages- skip to the last page. MOst people on this topic have kept up with the threads as they go. On this I have to agree that to see another new thread started on this same topic is just getting a little monotonous.

So are all the Blow It Up threads. Just let people discuss what they want to discuss. If people are truly frustrated and annoyed by all the threads then Im sure most of them would eventually just go away. However, since there seem to be alot of people interested in the topic, it consistently is talked about.

Stop clicking on the thread. Problem solved, and if people are truly annoyed, the Tex threads will quickly disappear.

[Elbren]

Give people a break. If you don't like the treads, then don't click on them. It was obvious by the title what the thread was about. Just because you are tired of it doesn't mean the rest of us can't discuss the topic. Some threads get to be 13 pages long and some of us don't feel like spending half an hour looking through all of the posts just to be able to discuss a topic.

Do everyone a favor, if your tired of reading a certain subject on the message board, don't click the thread.

That doesn't mean we need 2 - 3 threads a day about the same subject; especially when you're really not adding anything new (not sure exactly how old this info is but I heard about it last week watching SportsCenter). It also seems odd to post this in the Orioles section considering the O's aren't even mentioned in the article.

Sorry you're too tired to look through old threads but that also doesn't mean you should start 3, 4, 8, whatever number of threads with the same info asking the same questions. That's just wasting board space.

[MChance]

This is Adrian Gonzalez for Sidney Ponson all over again.

[Oriole Baseball]

Why is Macphail hesistant to bring in a new contract? That is just a really bad excuse for not making a deal. He's the GM of the Baltimore Orioles!

We're nuts not to do this deal.

I think MacPhail is hesistant because he's not sure Tex is what this team needs. Im sure many of us feel that he would be a help, but MacPhail wants to make sure there isn't a more economic solution (like say two 20-30 HR hitters for the same price as Tex) that would help the club out more. Look at Texas for example, the A-Rod deal severly handicapped them because they had too much payroll invested in one player.

[Sports Guy]

This is Adrian Gonzalez for Sidney Ponson all over again.

Except this deal was actually on the table and could have happened.

[Oriole Baseball]

That doesn't mean we need 2 - 3 threads a day about the same subject; especially when you're really not adding anything new (not sure exactly how old this info is but I heard about it last week watching SportsCenter). It also seems odd to post this in the Orioles section considering the O's aren't even mentioned in the article.

Sorry you're too tired to look through old threads but that also doesn't mean you should start 3, 4, 8, whatever number of threads with the same info asking the same questions. That's just wasting board space.

I disagree, since 1/3 is devoted to blowing the team up, 1/3 discussing roster moves, and 1/3 discussing Tex trades. If you stop clicking and posting how much you hate Tex threads, they would disappear.

[JTrea81]

If MacPhail doesn't want Tex's contract say goodbye to Tex now. I'm hoping he isn't Jim Beattie part II. Beattie was extremely frugal and it cost us Vlad and Delgado. I hope he's got one hell of a Plan B. I have a feeling we are about to get a whole lot younger.

If Angelos wants Tex though it's going to be interesting to see if he's able to stay out of the picture...

[geschinger]

I have a feeling we are about to get a whole lot younger...

I hope your feeling is right.

[Peace21]

If MacPhail doesn't want Tex's contract say goodbye to Tex now. I'm hoping he isn't Jim Beattie part II. Beattie was extremely frugal and it cost us Vlad and Delgado. I hope he's got one hell of a Plan B. I have a feeling we are about to get a whole lot younger...

Everyone is anxious to see what his first move will be.

[Oriole Baseball]

I understand the reservations about extending Tex if we traded for him. Im sure at this point, MacPhail has not had a final decision on what he wants to do with this team. He has to look at the whole Orioles system, from Flanagan and Duquette all the way down to the Gulf Coast League. Not to mention that he needs to look at possible free agents in the upcoming offseason and prospects/veterans he may want to trade for at the deadline.

It would be a shame to handcuff ourselves by getting Tex and then not having enough money to say, resign Bedard or add another big time bat through free agency. The man has to be given time, and I would prefer him to be cautious right now with about a month of getting to know the team, then getting rid of some parts that may help us or adding contracts that could hurt us.

[srh523]

Everyone is anxious to see what his first move will be.


If his 1st move was pulling Tex for DCab+ then he would be off to a good start and have alot off supporters!

[Peace21]

I understand the reservations about extending Tex if we traded for him. Im sure at this point, MacPhail has not had a final decision on what he wants to do with this team. He has to look at the whole Orioles system, from Flanagan and Duquette all the way down to the Gulf Coast League. Not to mention that he needs to look at possible free agents in the upcoming offseason and prospects/veterans he may want to trade for at the deadline.

It would be a shame to handcuff ourselves by getting Tex and then not having enough money to say, resign Bedard or add another big time bat through free agency. The man has to be given time, and I would prefer him to be cautious right now with about a month of getting to know the team, then getting rid of some parts that may help us or adding contracts that could hurt us.

Yeah he has had a good five weeks to look it over. Its not like this is his first time in the gig. And it doesnt take long to evaluate this team and its people. Hence why Flanny/Duq are still around to help him.

[Peace21]

If his 1st move was pulling Tex for DCab+ then he would be off to a good start and have alot off supporters!

Do you think getting Teix and locking him up long term and getting Wieters signed, will improve our relationship with Boras?

[Moose Milligan]

Orioleshangout.com - Where the O's don't have a chance but we like to think they do!

[Mackus]

Do you think getting Teix and locking him up long term and getting Wieters signed, will improve our relationship with Boras?Lets see, 10% of $200M+ and 10% of ~$10M, yeah i think Boras would be a bit more pleased with the organization after that.

[Peace21]

Orioleshangout.com - Where the O's don't have a chance but we like to think they do!

Its sad, when talking to my guy last night about the Bedard negotiations thing. I told him the reason why Bedard is probably getting low balled is because Angelos dosent believe in giving pitchers 15 mill per yr or long term deals. And he said thats why we have been losing for 10 years. I was like "Ouch."

[Peace21]

Lets see, 10% of $200M+ and 10% of ~$10M, yeah i think Boras would be a bit more pleased with the organization after that.

See the thing is everyone wants to be pleased with this organization again.

[rolliefingers]

Give people a break. If you don't like the treads, then don't click on them. It was obvious by the title what the thread was about. Just because you are tired of it doesn't mean the rest of us can't discuss the topic. Some threads get to be 13 pages long and some of us don't feel like spending half an hour looking through all of the posts just to be able to discuss a topic.

Do everyone a favor, if your tired of reading a certain subject on the message board, don't click the thread.

Let me ask you something: Does the story quoted in the OP even MENTION the Orioles as a possible suitor?

We need a single Tex rumor quarantine thread. Until actual reports emerge that we might be close to actually getting Tex, all this stuff is complete speculation. I don't have a problem with it, but I just want it all to be in one thread, so that if I feel like looking at Tex rumors, I know where to go. I will continue to be a lone wolf crying in the wildernerness for this if I have to be.

[srh523]

Do you think getting Teix and locking him up long term and getting Wieters signed, will improve our relationship with Boras?


I would certainly hope so! He would make a nice payday off that!

[clapdiddy]

Its sad, when talking to my guy last night about the Bedard negotiations thing. I told him the reason why Bedard is probably getting low balled is because Angelos dosent believe in giving pitchers 15 mill per yr or long term deals. And he said thats why we have been losing for 10 years. I was like "Ouch."
In fairness to Angelos, though, long-term pitcher contracts seem to have a history of NOT being a good thing. How many pitcher contracts of 4 years or more have gone well...well enough that the pitcher has stayed healthy and productive throughout the duration of the contract? Some have, but I'd bet the vast majority have not.

That being said...I'd still try to get Bedard signed through 2011. I'd try to do it now. If he can sit down with McPhail and work something out, that would be great. If his impression of this organization is to the point where he won't re-sign, I'd look to move him for as much as we could get.

[Flosman]

That doesn't mean we need 2 - 3 threads a day about the same subject; especially when you're really not adding anything new (not sure exactly how old this info is but I heard about it last week watching SportsCenter). It also seems odd to post this in the Orioles section considering the O's aren't even mentioned in the article.

Sorry you're too tired to look through old threads but that also doesn't mean you should start 3, 4, 8, whatever number of threads with the same info asking the same questions. That's just wasting board space.

If I came on line and did not see a trade for Tex thread, I think I might just start a whats the latest on Tex Thread. ;)

[BillySmith]

According to Duq, the FO was very concerned about BJ Ryan's violent delivery when discussing his future with the O's. So, yeah, long term pitcher deals are risky.

[Peace21]

But would you give say Roy Oswalt a long term deal?

[Sports Guy]

But would you give say Roy Oswalt a long term deal?

Nope...I don't think there is any pitcher in all of baseball i give a 5 year deal too.

Now, this assumes they are close to FA and in the 28-33 range.

[Peace21]

So how much would you offer Bedard...You play GM

[Sports Guy]

So how much would you offer Bedard...You play GM

4/40...A little more than Harang and Bonderman got at the same point in their arbitration process.

[rolliefingers]

But would you give say Roy Oswalt a long term deal?

How long-term is "long-term"? I wouldn't give any pitcher more than four years, but Oswalt and Bedard fit the bill.

[El Gordo]

Do you think getting Teix and locking him up long term and getting Wieters signed, will improve our relationship with Boras?Why not? Feeding sharks brings them a lot closer to you.:D

[Peace21]

4/40...A little more than Harang and Bonderman got at the same point in their arbitration process.

Now imagine being in Bedard's shoes and Duq saying to you.".ummm.. we are going to have to get back to you on that...we have to ask Uncle Pete."

[Mackus]

4/40...A little more than Harang and Bonderman got at the same point in their arbitration process.I'd be more than happy to go a lot higher than that. I'd rather overpay for him than trade him. I'd rather trade him than lose him as a FA though.

He'd probably make about $12-15M or so total over the next two years through arbitration, so I'd give him a bit more than that and then lock up two free agency years at about $15M per year, so something in the 4/$44-48M range would be more than fine with me.

[olehippi]

Heyman reported the same thing on SI.com today. Made it sound like the Rangers want DCab and that he could be the O's if the Orioles give up DCab. However, he said MacPhail doesn't want to commit to a large contract since he has been around for about a month.

It would be a comic tragedy if it turns out MacPhail is the reason we don't get Tex. There's no doubt in my mind that Duquette would pull the trigger on a Cabrera/Tex deal in a heartbeat.

[Sports Guy]

I'd be more than happy to go a lot higher than that. I'd rather overpay for him than trade him. I'd rather trade him than lose him as a FA though.

He'd probably make about $12-15M or so total over the next two years through arbitration, so I'd give him a bit more than that and then lock up two free agency years at about $15M per year, so something in the 4/$44-48M range would be more than fine with me.

Yea, if we had to go that high, i wouldn't hesitate.

[Sports Guy]

Now imagine being in Bedard's shoes and Duq saying to you.".ummm.. we are going to have to get back to you on that...we have to ask Uncle Pete."
Well, hopefully Duq wouldn't be the one talking to him anyway.

[geschinger]

Well, hopefully Duq wouldn't be the one talking to him anyway.

Who would? Flanny?

I would assume that MacPhail would delegate things like contract negotiations.

[rolliefingers]

Now imagine being in Bedard's shoes and Duq saying to you.".ummm.. we are going to have to get back to you on that...we have to ask Uncle Pete."

Could someone clear something up for me? When was it mentioned that Bedard has been low-balled, or even offered ANYTHING by the Orioles? I did a Google News search and found nothing.

[sector7g]

With the talk of long term deals for pitchers and the obvious pitfalls of giving them I was curious at to what kind of insurance teams have against this.

E.g. If a pitcher is signed to a 6yr 90m contract and he breaks down with a career ending injury is there not any kind of legal insurance taken out against this? I.e. to reduce the financial risks?

[JTrea81]

It would be a comic tragedy if it turns out MacPhail is the reason we don't get Tex. There's no doubt in my mind that Duquette would pull the trigger on a Cabrera/Tex deal in a heartbeat.

We'd be stupid not to if that's all that Texas wants and we want Tex. DCab will not get better under Mazzone. I don't see Tex walking away from Baltimore after said he wanted to play there. However if MacPhail has no plans to offer him a large contract (which again doesn't make sense unless we have one heck of a plan B) the deal would make no sense. However if we do let Tex go to the Red Sox or Yankees without a fight, we will know MacPhail is truly in charge, that's for sure!

[Sports Guy]

We'd be stupid not to if that's all that Texas wants and we want Tex. DCab will not get better under Mazzone. I don't see Tex walking away from Baltimore after said he wanted to play there. However if MacPhail has no plans to offer him a large contract (which again doesn't make sense unless we have one heck of a plan B) the deal would make no sense. However if we do let Tex go to the Red Sox or Yankees without a fight, we will know MacPhail is truly in charge, that's for sure!

I don't see how this can said with any certainty.

[gamiliel]

so what if we traded DCab for him. We offer a good extension and if he doesn't sign it we deal him this offseason or next deadline and get more back then we gave up. If he wants to be home then he will ultimately sign a fair extension.

[Sports Guy]

I would assume that MacPhail would delegate things like contract negotiations.
Not if it was a with a player that the current regime f'ed up on.

[Mackus]

so what if we traded DCab for him. We offer a good extension and if he doesn't sign it we deal him this offseason or next deadline and get more back then we gave up. If he wants to be home then he will ultimately sign a fair extension.What does fair mean? If he signs, it'll be for about $20M+ a season over at least 8 years.

[rolliefingers]

With the talk of long term deals for pitchers and the obvious pitfalls of giving them I was curious at to what kind of insurance teams have against this.

E.g. If a pitcher is signed to a 6yr 90m contract and he breaks down with a career ending injury is there not any kind of legal insurance taken out against this? I.e. to reduce the financial risks?

Insurance policies are part of the calculus a team has to make when trying to sign a player. The way I understand it, teams have to shop around for an insurance company that will cover the player in question, and that company decides whether or not it's a worthwhile risk, based on the player's injury history and God-knows-what-else.

If a company won't insure a certain player for a certain contract, then the team has to decide if they're willing to take the risk.

BTW, I wonder how much of Ordonez's contract the Tigers were able to insure? That was one hell of a risk, even though there were out clauses galore in there.

[JTrea81]

I don't see how this can said with any certainty.

Well I'm going on trends. He's regressed each year under Mazzone. He progressed under Miller. For some reason Mazzone doesn't seem to be helping him at all, or at least the results aren't showing. DCab is the only weak link besides Steve Trachsel in the rotation. Curt Schilling could easily equal or surpass his #'s next year if we were to sign him to a one year deal. We could compete by trading DCab, Liz and Hoey for Tex and trading for a LFer and then signing Schilling to fill DCab's spot as a #3. That rotation would be good enough. Also it shows that we want to win, and maybe we can convince Bedard to stay if we do that.

[Ruzious]

Well I'm going on trends. He's regressed each year under Mazzone. He progressed under Miller. For some reason Mazzone doesn't seem to be helping him at all, or at least the results aren't showing. DCab is the only weak link besides Steve Trachsel in the rotation. Curt Schilling could easily equal or surpass his #'s next year if we were to sign him to a one year deal. We could compete by trading DCab, Liz and Hoey for Tex and trading for a LFer and then signing Schilling to fill DCab's spot as a #3. That rotation would be good enough. Also it shows that we want to win, and maybe we can convince Bedard to stay if we do that.
Why would Schilling come here - when he can play his last year or so with a contender? And why would the O's be interested in a stop-gap like him? Plus, you'd probably be throwing away a draft choice to get him. And what assets would the O's have left to trade for a good LFer?

[Leitch]

Why would Schilling come here - when he can play his last year or so with a contender?

Assuming he could?

[Mackus]

I don't see how this can said with any certainty.You can't say it with certainty but I think the odds are overwhelmingly against Cabrera ever becoming the type of pitcher so many think he can be. I think his ceiling is now a #3/4 type starter. I'd trade that for Tex in an instant. I'd rather move Cabrera than Olson at this point.

[Ruzious]

Assuming he could?
He could if he has anything left. So, basically the only way he comes here is if - he's done and just wants to collect a paycheck. Right?

[Ruzious]

You can't say it with certainty but I think the odds are overwhelmingly against Cabrera ever becoming the type of pitcher so many think he can be. I think his ceiling is now a #3/4 type starter. I'd trade that for Tex in an instant. I'd rather move Cabrera than Olson at this point.
Well, his ceiling is higher than that. He might not reach it, but that doesn't change it.

[Flosman]

Now imagine being in Bedard's shoes and Duq saying to you.".ummm.. we are going to have to get back to you on that...we have to ask Uncle Pete."


I would think nothing of it and if a player had a ounce of sense niether would they. THe FO is ownerships agent in the negotiations, just like the agent is the players rep. Both representitives in most negotiations have a window that they can strike a deal in if something gets outside of that window authorization needs to be obtained from the actual party. Sometimes that is not something that can be obtained instantly. Someone that does much business understands this and are not offended by it. But actually it sounds if the two sides where far apart and that is the real problem. I am sure the O's will wish they met his demands when they talk this winter.

[Objectivity]

Well, his ceiling is higher than that. He might not reach it, but that doesn't change it.


How many years does it take to realize that his ceiling may not be any higher? We are always hesitant to make moves because the player we have's ceiling is higher than the proven talent of the person we're getting in return.

Yes, sometimes we'll get burned. But, I'd much rather get burned one time out of every 100 than not make the 99 deals where the proven talent already exceeds the maximum potential that will be achieved by the person we currently have.

We need to stop acting as if every player in our system should be valued as if their potential is that of a hall-of-fame player. At some point, we need to visit reality and value our players at their actual current value. With prospects, it's ok to project a bit, but Cabrera has been a starter on this team for four years. At some point, even at 26 years old, you need to start assuming this is all that he will ever be.


As far as Texieria goes, someone had a good point. If he goes to LA we have a better chance at signing him to a long-term deal than trading for him now and risk having him realize that playing for the home team isn't great if management is totally backward (assuming things don't change)

[Boy Howdy]

I wonder if the Rangers are less likely to send Tex to the Orioles since he went public with his desire to play in Baltimore.

Sometimes, players get shipped to a particular club (contender, near family, etc...) as a way of saying thanks when circumstances force them to be moved. In this case, the reverse may be true.

Of course, the Rangers will ultimately do what they think is best for their own organization, but they may harbor some resentment towards Tex for lettings his feelings about the O's and the Rangers manager become part of the public record.

I think, all things being equal, the Rangers might send Tex to 'baseball Siberia', even if that's a World Series-bound Angels team in this particular case.

I really hope tonight won't be Cabrera's last game in an Orioles uniform. I'd like to see him pitch a shutout for the O's on opening day 2009, while free agent addition Tex provides the game-winning hit.

[hoosiers]

This is Adrian Gonzalez for Sidney Ponson all over again.

I think the BoSox could land Tex in a minute if they wanted to part with Buchholtz or Lester plus one other top 10 prospect. IMO, Tex is Boston's to lose.

[Joe'sO's]

I think the O's will explore getting cheaper/younger bats before jumping off a cliff with Tex or any other high price guys. Plus i'd really be surprised if they gave up 3 pitchers in one deal.

[WEAVERMAN]

I really doubt that MacPhail would deny the Tex expenditure. How else is he going to building a contending club if he doesn't spend money on difference makers like Tex.

[Sports Guy]

"Boston could have pulled the trigger already, but they haven't," said one source. "They could decide to go with what they've got."

This quote from a MLB.com trade article.

[geschinger]

I really doubt that MacPhail would deny the Tex expenditure. How else is he going to building a contending club if he doesn't spend money on difference makers like Tex.

Maybe he doesn't buy into the hometown hero aspect as much and realizes that with what Boras is going to demand that the price to performance ratio of a Tex is not the best use of limited payroll dollars. Maybe he has someone else he'd rather spend money on. There could be any number of reasons why he might not want to go all out for Tex other than trying to save Peter's money. Maybe if Angelos really wants Tex MacPhail wants to show that he has total control by avoiding Tex.

Or maybe it as simple as him overly frugal and doesn't want to bring in big money players.

[JTrea81]

Maybe he doesn't buy into the hometown hero aspect as much and realizes that with what Boras is going to demand that the price to performance ratio of a Tex is not the best use of limited payroll dollars. Maybe he has someone else he'd rather spend money on. There could be any number of reasons why he might not want to go all out for Tex other than trying to save Peter's money. Maybe if Angelos really wants Tex MacPhail wants to show that he has total control by avoiding Tex.

Or maybe it as simple as him overly frugal and doesn't want to bring in big money players.

But MacPhail said something to the effect of the fans were the final say, the bosses. Does he really want to upset the fan base even more because the thought of Teixeira in a Red Sox uniform will not go over well with much of the fan base. If he really believes what he said about the fans, you'd think he'd a least throw the Orioles' hat into the ring.

[Fairfax Bird]

This quote from a MLB.com trade article.

Yeah, cause everyone is in to telling the truth at the deadline.:p

[Sports Guy]

Yeah, cause everyone is in to telling the truth at the deadline.:p

Exactly.

But i think that quote is pretty telling. Yea, Texas may have asked for Youk, Lester and a prospect but Boston isn't doing that.

Boston could go get Jermaine Dye for much less..Or maybe Minnesota trades Torii Hunter as they continue their slide.

Boston has other options and can still keep their guys.

[geschinger]

But MacPhail said something to the effect of the fans were the final say, the bosses. Does he really want to upset the fan base even more because the thought of Teixeira in a Red Sox uniform will not go over well with much of the fan base. If he really believes what he said about the fans, you'd think he'd a least throw the Orioles' hat into the ring.

I sure hope MacPhail doesn't run the baseball operations trying to please the fans w/individual moves. Put a winner on the field and the fans will love you whether or not you bring the hometown boy home. Sometimes that will require hard choices that are not popular w/the fans in the short run. For example, look at Cleveland... Fans wanted Shapiro's head when he traded Colon. If he instead made moves based on what would please the fanbase in the short run they wouldn't be a legitimate contender today.

[Fairfax Bird]

Exactly.

But i think that quote is pretty telling. Yea, Texas may have asked for Youk, Lester and a prospect but Boston isn't doing that.

Boston could go get Jermaine Dye for much less..Or maybe Minnesota trades Torii Hunter as they continue their slide.

Boston has other options and can still keep their guys.

I don't know, I keep thinking about the Sawx with Tex in the lineup and I keep thinking that is pretty damn scary. I would make that move.

[Sports Guy]

I don't know, I keep thinking about the Sawx with Tex in the lineup and I keep thinking that is pretty damn scary. I would make that move.

But you are taking Youk out of it...It really isn't much of an upgrade...The power upgrade is there but overall, it isn't much and that is before you talk about losing the other players.

[JTrea81]

I sure hope MacPhail doesn't run the baseball operations trying to please the fans w/individual moves. Put a winner on the field and the fans will love you whether or not you bring the hometown boy home. Sometimes that will require hard choices that are not popular w/the fans in the short run. For example, look at Cleveland... Fans wanted Shapiro's head when he traded Colon. If he instead made moves based on what would please the fanbase in the short run they wouldn't be a legitimate contender today.

But he's got to get the fans back. He's got to convince them that we want to win. He's got to convince the players that we want to win. He can trade for Tex as a statement and then still make trades and signings to fill in the other holes. We can lose Cabrera Liz and Hoey and still have plenty of pitching. It's not like losing these guys would set us back for the next 10 years. We're going to have to trade pitching for a 1B man anyway if Tex doesn't sign here and that 1B man may or may not be as good as Tex. So why not trade for a guy that you know will put up Tex's #'s - Tex himself. It may be a little pricier but you know what you are getting...

Detroit made a statement when they signed Ordonez and Pudge and then traded away two pitching prospects for Sheffield. They made a huge risk when they did that, but nobody's laughing at them now. We made a statement when we signed Tejada. We need to follow it up by trading for Tex...

Whenever you talk to a casual Orioles fan or a player themselves, they all say the same thing - we need the big bat. So why not get them that big bat?

[Fairfax Bird]

But you are taking Youk out of it...It really isn't much of an upgrade...The power upgrade is there but overall, it isn't much and that is before you talk about losing the other players.

Other player. I said Youk and Lester. Tex is a huge upgrade over Youk.

Career averages over 162 games:

Tex .284/.369/.534/.903 with 36 HRs
Youk .286/.388/.437/.825 with 14 HRs

Tex is also a year younger and probably better defensively, though I hate defensive stats and the way gold gloves are given out.

[rolliefingers]

Other player. I said Youk and Lester. Tex is a huge upgrade over Youk.

Career averages over 162 games:

Tex .284/.369/.534/.903 with 36 HRs
Youk .286/.388/.437/.825 with 14 HRs

Tex is also a year younger and probably better defensively, though I hate defensive stats and the way gold gloves are given out.

That's not that big of an upgrade, esp. when you factor in money.

[Sports Guy]

Other player. I said Youk and Lester. Tex is a huge upgrade over Youk.

Career averages over 162 games:

Tex .284/.369/.534/.903 with 36 HRs
Youk .286/.388/.437/.825 with 14 HRs

Tex is also a year younger and probably better defensively, though I hate defensive stats and the way gold gloves are given out.

By WARP3, Youk is 2 wins better this year.

Now, part of that is Tex being hurt.

But you also have to consider what taking Tex out of Texas does to his stats.

I really don't think the upgrade is there to warrant giving up Lester and another player.

But again, i hope Boston makes this trade. It is better for the Orioles.

[geschinger]

But he's got to get the fans back. He's got to convince them that we want to win. He's got to convince the players that we want to win. He can trade for Tex as a statement and then still make trades and signings to fill in the other holes. We can lose Cabrera Liz and Hoey and still have plenty of pitching. It's not like losing these guys would set us back for the next 10 years. We're going to have to trade pitching for a 1B man anyway if Tex doesn't sign here and that 1B man may or may not be as good as Tex. So why not trade for a guy that you know will put up Tex's #'s - Tex himself. It may be a little pricier but you know what you are getting...

Convincing fans that we want to win, making a statement... It's meaningless. Winning is the only cure to the franchises problems. If MacPhail builds a winner the fans will come. Anything less is unacceptable.

Tex might be one of the pieces to turn it around and if so I'm sure MacPhail will make a legitimate effort to acquire him either via trade or as a FA. Or maybe he has something else in mind. Either way nothing at all matters other than the results.

[JTrea81]

By WARP3, Youk is 2 wins better this year.

Now, part of that is Tex being hurt.

But you also have to consider what taking Tex out of Texas does to his stats.

I really don't think the upgrade is there to warrant giving up Lester and another player.

But again, i hope Boston makes this trade. It is better for the Orioles.

That's one thing for Boston to consider. Fenway is a terrible park for LH home run hitters. Tex bats from the left against RHP, so he's going to see a decline in his HR #'s...

[Fairfax Bird]

By WARP3, Youk is 2 wins better this year.

Now, part of that is Tex being hurt.

But you also have to consider what taking Tex out of Texas does to his stats.

I really don't think the upgrade is there to warrant giving up Lester and another player.
But again, i hope Boston makes this trade. It is better for the Orioles.

I never said Youk, Lester, and another player. Just Youk and Lester!

Youk is 2 wins better than Tex according to WARP3, c'mon Tex was hurt for a month. Youk is having a hell of a year, but he is not near the player that Tex is.

Some stats that DON'T support your case:

Tex's HOME OPS = .961 --- ROAD OPS = .940

Youk's OPS in JUNE .762, JULY .657

In 2006 his OPS pre all-star break = .874, post = .728
2005, PRE = .813, POST = .768
2004, PRE = .831, POST = .708

If Youk follows his normal progression he is going to cool down throughout the summer.

Tex's OPS in April was .687 --- he is headed in a different direction.

Tex is FAR more valuable than Youk. I would do that deal if I were Boston. Tex just might put them over the top.

[Fairfax Bird]

That's one thing for Boston to consider. Fenway is a terrible park for LH home run hitters. Tex bats from the left against RHP, so he's going to see a decline in his HR #'s...

Yeah, Ortiz has so much trouble hitting HRs.:D

[JTrea81]

Yeah, Ortiz has so much trouble hitting HRs.:D

Just imagine how many HRs Ortiz would hit if he was at OPACY or Arlington. He'd be a threat for 50+ every year. Fenway does hurt him somewhat...

[Sports Guy]

Just heard Stark on Mike and Mike.

He said he thinks the only 2 teams that are serious about Tex are Anaheim and Atlanta and he said both of those teams are wavering.

He said Texas wants 3 players, with one of them being a no doubt about it future star.

He also said that Anaheim has reportedly asked about Konerko(if this is true and Konerko would be dealt, which Stark said he doesn't think so, we shoudl try and trade Tejada to the WS in a 3 team deal) and a big reason for that is ridiculous demand for Tex.

[Puma170]

That is why this time of year is so frustrating. One report has the price of Tex coming down because the Rangers just have to move him. Another says that the Rangers are asking for the moon and teams are shying away.

I understand that the very nature of rumors opens up this kind of conjecture but it doesn't make it any less frustrating.

PUMA

[Objectivity]

That is why this time of year is so frustrating. One report has the price of Tex coming down because the Rangers just have to move him. Another says that the Rangers are asking for the moon and teams are shying away.

I understand that the very nature of rumors opens up this kind of conjecture but it doesn't make it any less frustrating.

PUMA

They ask for the moon now in case someone is so desperate they're willing to pay any price. Then, if they're truly desperate, the cost will come down.

Personally, I don't think the price will come down at this point. They have a year and a half left. They can trade him in the off season where there is more time to negotiate or at the trade deadline next year, although his value will be less then.

Ideally for them, they wait until the off season. Some team on the brink needs a 1B and misses out on the free agent market and then ponies up.

[JTrea81]

Just heard Stark on Mike and Mike.

He said he thinks the only 2 teams that are serious about Tex are Anaheim and Atlanta and he said both of those teams are wavering.

He said Texas wants 3 players, with one of them being a no doubt about it future star.

He also said that Anaheim has reportedly asked about Konerko(if this is true and Konerko would be dealt, which Stark said he doesn't think so, we shoudl try and trade Tejada to the WS in a 3 team deal) and a big reason for that is ridiculous demand for Tex.

Why would the White Sox want Tejada when they are sellers? If anything we should be trying to deal Tejada to the Angels or Dodgers...

[Oriole Baseball]

Lots of different rumors going around now. Olney has said that he's definitly getting shipped and listed about 3 or 4 teams. Heyman said the offers for Tex are going up and listed a handful of teams including the O's. Stark says only two teams and both wavering. Rosenthal says Atlanta wants him and its a 50/50 shot they get him.

[Sports Guy]

Why would the White Sox want Tejada when they are sellers? If anything we should be trying to deal Tejada to the Angels or Dodgers...
For the same reason the Sox were talking Garland for Renteria....Williams has repeatedly said that he doesn't really want prospects....He wants established players.

[geschinger]

They ask for the moon now in case someone is so desperate they're willing to pay any price. Then, if they're truly desperate, the cost will come down.

Personally, I don't think the price will come down at this point. They have a year and a half left. They can trade him in the off season where there is more time to negotiate or at the trade deadline next year, although his value will be less then.

Ideally for them, they wait until the off season. Some team on the brink needs a 1B and misses out on the free agent market and then ponies up.

They have the time that they don't have to settle for less than they think is a fair return. The only issue that might force them to move quicker is if they feel Tex is becoming a cancer. Some of what I've read recently makes him out to be less than the ideal teammate but I'm not sure if it's bad enough to force their hand.

[Oriole Baseball]

From Jon Heyman:


Texas may be able to pry young first baseman Casey Kotchman, perhaps right-hander Ervin Santana and a third big leaguer from Los Angeles of Anaheim for Teixeira. Which sounds like a pretty fair package from here, and word has it that the Angels might offer even more.

Don't see the O's matching that. Another negative is that the Angels have the money to resign him if they don't go after A-Rod

Sorry if this has been posted before, didn't see any other threads

[tywright]

More from Heyman


Orioles executive Mike Flanagan supposedly isn't be all that thrilled Andy MacPhail has been brought in over him. Maybe he noticed MacPhail's record in Chicago.

• MacPhail, incidentally, seems to have gotten cold feet over committing to Teixeira, the Severna Park, Md. native who dreams of becoming an Oriole.

[tywright]

Teams are trading bigger packages for Tex because they know they will get 2 draft picks for him when it's all said and done (similar to Linebrink and SD)

[Oriole Baseball]

Teams are trading bigger packages for Tex because they know they will get 2 draft picks for him when it's all said and done (similar to Linebrink and SD)

I think Tex would be an insurance policy for the Angels in case they can't get ahold of A-Rod. They can spend the money to sign him long term.

[clapdiddy]

From Jon Heyman:



Don't see the O's matching that. Another negative is that the Angels have the money to resign him if they don't go after A-Rod

Sorry if this has been posted before, didn't see any other threads

I just don't understand why the Angels want to deal Kotchman. The guy's having a pretty nice year, is a couple of years younger, and is a lot cheaper. This just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

[Oriole Baseball]

I just don't understand why the Angels want to deal Kotchman. The guy's having a pretty nice year, is a couple of years younger, and is a lot cheaper. This just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Tex is a more proven commodity than Kotchman. Kotchman may not turn out to be as good as Tex or he could be better than him, however there is little doubt Tex is better now and will help them win this year.

[gamiliel]

WHAT! Flanagan isn't happy! Who the ---- cares what he thinks. He is a joke!

[Sports Guy]

Tex is a more proven commodity than Kotchman. Kotchman may not turn out to be as good as Tex or he could be better than him, however there is little doubt Tex is better now and will help them win this year.

Yea but how much does Tex improve the offense over Kotchman?

What about Santana? Yes, he has been awful this year but they may need him later, especially with Colon out and Weaver shaky early injury history.

Just not seeing how this is a good deal for them to make.

[clapdiddy]

Yea but how much does Tex improve the offense over Kotchman?

What about Santana? Yes, he has been awful this year but they may need him later, especially with Colon out and Weaver shaky early injury history.

Just not seeing how this is a good deal for them to make.

I'm truly beginning to wonder if all these Tex trade ideas are just a bunch of BS. It sounds to me as if Texas might be floating some of these rumors out there to drive his price up.

[Sports Guy]

I'm truly beginning to wonder if all these Tex trade ideas are just a bunch of BS. It sounds to me as if Texas might be floating some of these rumors out there to drive his price up.

I will go on record as saying i think Tex is a Ranger on August 1.

[Hank Scorpio]

I don't see any scenario where a team would be so foolish as to give up what Texas is asking for. It just doesn't make sense.

They asked for Adam Miller for Kenny Lofton for the love a god!!!!

[JTrea81]

You know if these offers were true, Texas would have pulled the trigger already. I wonder if they are waiting for the Orioles to get involved so they can get the pitching they want.

[Sports Guy]

You know if these offers were true, Texas would have pulled the trigger already. Agree.
I wonder if they are waiting for the Orioles to get involved so they can get the pitching they wantHave ondered the same thing myself.