Vick is in deep soup. [Archive] - Orioles Hangout Community

scarey1999

07-28-2007, 01:10 AM

tennOsfan

07-28-2007, 07:23 AM

You guys know how all this works right?

Mike Vick, the superstar athlete, will somehow perform a Houdini act through countless extension/continuance requests, Vick attorneys trying to get his case thrown out and appeals, not serve any jail time and get anywhere from a 4 game to a season long suspension only to have people forget about it within a year when the next big news story comes along. <end rant>

Yeah, and you don't know much about federal courts. They limit how much stuff goes into the system, and they get things moving ultra-fast. This isn't a state court where cases get lost in the shuffle (DUI trials getting bumped for a year by more serious trials).

You also don't realize that since U.S. Attorneys get to cherry-pick their cases, they normally only take sure-winners. Thus Vick has an excellent chance of going behind bars.

And the animal rights protestors outside the courthouse are only a hint at what faces Vick once he gets back to the NFL.

ChaosLex

07-29-2007, 01:35 AM

Can the Falcons trade back for Matt Schaub? ;)

TGO

07-30-2007, 11:36 AM

Yeah, and you don't know much about federal courts. They limit how much stuff goes into the system, and they get things moving ultra-fast. This isn't a state court where cases get lost in the shuffle (DUI trials getting bumped for a year by more serious trials).

You also don't realize that since U.S. Attorneys get to cherry-pick their cases, they normally only take sure-winners. Thus Vick has an excellent chance of going behind bars.

And the animal rights protestors outside the courthouse are only a hint at what faces Vick once he gets back to the NFL.

And the co-defendant copping a plea likely means he's going to give up the dirt on Vick. Vick's career is over.

backwardsk

07-30-2007, 10:39 PM

Experts on the law,

Does Vick have a chance at pleading guilty to lesser offenses and avoid jail time? Or once he's indicted in Federal Court, they don't cut deals like that?

square634

07-30-2007, 10:46 PM

scarey1999

07-31-2007, 01:13 AM

Who knows what this guy is going to say though. And how reliable is his testimony if he has a personal problem with Vick?

On a related note, I also think it could come back to bite Roger Goodell that he preemptively told Vick to stay out of training camp. I mean I understand that he is probably guilty, but I thought that about the Duke lacrosse case too. Also, isn't it possible that Vick's friends are just scumbags and are throwing him under the bus since he is a star athlete to avoid scrutiny themselves? Or might a prosecutor seeking fame have jumped the gun to try to implicate a star athlete?

I am no Vick or dog fighting apologist, but I still think one of the major tenets of our justice system is that you are innocent until proven guilty.
Exactly. This is what I was saying in my earlier post in so many words.

The others might have the book thrown at them, but Vick will escape without serving a day in a jail cell. Mark my words. Find me another case, with this high profile of an athlete, where he was found guilty and actually served jail time. Something will coincidentally come up, or some new "evidence" (read:$money$, etc) will be introduced to save him. Forgive me in my lack of faith in our justice system, but I just don't this playing out as some others have indicated in this thread.

Mad Mark

08-17-2007, 12:16 PM

tennOsfan

08-20-2007, 07:58 AM

Experts on the law,

Does Vick have a chance at pleading guilty to lesser offenses and avoid jail time? Or once he's indicted in Federal Court, they don't cut deals like that?

Of course, he could avoid jail time if the feds give him the "right" plea. But clearly the U.S. Attorney won't be doing that -- they're cutting the deals with the guys who can talk about Vick. Vick appears to be their target.

Also, it sounds like the U.S. Attorney is holding back on a few charges and will reindict Vick should he not cop a plea.

But, pleading to a lesser offense doesn't mean you'll avoid jailtime. Perhaps the length of the sentence could be reduced, but it's not like he avoids jail altogether.

tennOsfan

08-20-2007, 08:04 AM

The others might have the book thrown at them, but Vick will escape without serving a day in a jail cell. Mark my words. Find me another case, with this high profile of an athlete, where he was found guilty and actually served jail time. Something will coincidentally come up, or some new "evidence" (read:$money$, etc) will be introduced to save him. Forgive me in my lack of faith in our justice system, but I just don't this playing out as some others have indicated in this thread.

Martha Stewart, Paris Hilton and others aren't high-profile athletes, but they're celebritries all the same. They went to jail, remember?

Here's the big thing: What you don't understand is that the U.S. Attorney has an unbelievably large amount of discretion in what charges he'll bring. Usually, if they don't have the goods on a high profile person, you'll never hear about the charge. The U.S. Attorney will not make the charge and later change his (or her) mind.

As a prosecutor, the last thing I'd ever want to do is levy a charge against a high profile person and invite scrutiny on myself by not following through. Do you think we like people questioning our cojones?

It's not like this is the Duke prosecutor who was up for reelection and had no sense to being with.

Objectivity

08-20-2007, 02:52 PM

Exactly. This is what I was saying in my earlier post in so many words.

The others might have the book thrown at them, but Vick will escape without serving a day in a jail cell. Mark my words. Find me another case, with this high profile of an athlete, where he was found guilty and actually served jail time. Something will coincidentally come up, or some new "evidence" (read:$money$, etc) will be introduced to save him. Forgive me in my lack of faith in our justice system, but I just don't this playing out as some others have indicated in this thread.

Obviously, now that he's taking a deal, jail time is a given.

The one thing I don't think you considered and that most people don't realize is that federal court is different than state court. State courts are exactly the way you described it. They're very much influenceable. Federal courts are much tougher in that they have all kinds of mandatory minimums and prosecutors who can better control the charges being presented.

There's a difference between DA Yokel putting out a warrant for Ray Lewis before even collecting evidence because he wants his press conference and federal prosecutors methodically creating a strong, tight case before even going public with the first bit of information about their case.

ixcuincle

08-20-2007, 04:16 PM

So now that he's entered a guilty plea and will almost certainly go to jail , what's next now? Will he play in the NFL again or will we see him in the obscurity of the CFL when he is released from jail? :D

If he does come back , perhaps he can find a position on the Cincinnati Bengals , after all , many of their players love the penitentiary system. Perhaps he can play as a RB since he isn't much of a NFL quarterback.

BTW...about the state courts.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/20/0821_vickplea.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

Also, Gerald Poindexter, the Commonwealth's attorney for Surry County, where Vick allegedly operated his dogfighting business, said last week the evidence revealed in federal court Friday solidified his plans to move forward with his own case. State charges could bring Vick a minimum of 40 years in prison.

HarCoCy

08-20-2007, 04:33 PM

So now that he's entered a guilty plea and will almost certainly go to jail , what's next now? Will he play in the NFL again or will we see him in the obscurity of the CFL when he is released from jail? :D

If he does come back , perhaps he can find a position on the Cincinnati Bengals , after all , many of their players love the penitentiary system. Perhaps he can play as a RB since he isn't much of a NFL quarterback.

BTW...about the state courts.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/20/0821_vickplea.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

I have read that it is doubtful that he will be able to go to the CFL because they (the Canadians) don't like to give work visas to convicted criminals.

Unless he does something completely out of character - like completely and unequivocally admitting his wrong doing and apologizing for it and then donating like $5M dollars to the Humane Society - I don't see him getting back in the NFL.

twoBshorty

08-20-2007, 05:20 PM

blueberryale77

08-20-2007, 05:56 PM

If he's guilty (and, at minimum, he's guilty of lousy taste in "friends"), then they should CUT HIS BALLS OFF. People who do this kind of thing really shouldn't be allowed to breed.
After watching "Real Sports" last night, I was ready to do it myself.

You would think that extremely public lawsuit about giving the woman herpes would have significantly reduced his chances of breeding as it is, but then again some women (like some men) are really, really stupid (and some already have herpes). :002_stongue:

tennOsfan

08-20-2007, 07:43 PM

He deserves everything coming to him, but you've got to admit it's sad to see a kid with such potential turn into this. He could've had the world by the tail ...

Mad Mark

08-20-2007, 08:33 PM

He deserves everything coming to him, but you've got to admit it's sad to see a kid with such potential turn into this. He could've had the world by the tail ...

I think the last place any creature would want Vick to have them is by the tail...they'd have to be worried about getting drowned, electrocuted, bashed against the floor, etc...

ledzepp8

08-20-2007, 09:05 PM

Sidney Ponson had trouble getting into Canada because of alcohol charges and I don't think he'd even been tried yet. Convicted felon? Dogfighting, gambling, and possible racketeering? Nuh-uh. Maybe the AFL, but not the CFL.

I wonder what the State of Virginia is going to do here. I hope they pick up where the feds left off and run with this.

Yeah I hope the Commonwealth of Virginia(;))brings charges against him too. Espn was talking 12-18 months in prison...and to me that seems like a slap on the wrist.

Objectivity

08-20-2007, 11:23 PM

He deserves everything coming to him, but you've got to admit it's sad to see a kid with such potential turn into this. He could've had the world by the tail ...

Potential doesn't get you the world by the tail; success gets you the world by the tail.

If Vick never plays football again, he'll be remembered as an exceptional quarterback who wasted his opportunity. Ironically, this is the best thing possible for his football reputation because if he kept playing without this he would only be known as one of the most overrated and overhyped players in the history of the sport.

Dr. FLK

08-21-2007, 07:58 AM

He deserves everything coming to him, but you've got to admit it's sad to see a kid with such potential turn into this. He could've had the world by the tail ...

What's really sad is all of the support that this kid still has from the ATL public who views him as a victim. Can we take a vote to remove that city from the US?

rolliefingers

08-21-2007, 08:54 AM

What's really sad is all of the support that this kid still has from the ATL public who views him as a victim. Can we take a vote to remove that city from the US?

I don't know, a lot of the talk out of there was "let's not hang him until he's proven guilty".

We'll see now how serious people were about that. I can't imagine any rational person defending him now.

Dr. FLK

08-21-2007, 09:13 AM

I don't know, a lot of the talk out of there was "let's not hang him until he's proven guilty".

We'll see now how serious people were about that. I can't imagine any rational person defending him now.

Did you see Sportscenter yesterday afternoon? They had this segment where they talked to an ATL radio show, and they patched through callers. 2 of the first 3 defended him, called him a victim, and said this was a result of him being famous and African American...at which point I turned off ESPN. I didn't see how anyone could defend him now, but they still are.

orioles119

08-21-2007, 10:09 AM

Did you see Sportscenter yesterday afternoon? They had this segment where they talked to an ATL radio show, and they patched through callers. 2 of the first 3 defended him, called him a victim, and said this was a result of him being famous and African American...at which point I turned off ESPN. I didn't see how anyone could defend him now, but they still are.

What idiots. Race and fame do not cause a lack of personal responsibility. It's amazing the amount of times "victim" is shouted because of factors that are uncontrolled by the individual, yet actions controlled by the individual scream at the fact that they should know better.

Those calls had to be plants.

Basegirl

08-21-2007, 10:58 AM

I don't know, a lot of the talk out of there was "let's not hang him until he's proven guilty".

We'll see now how serious people were about that. I can't imagine any rational person defending him now.

What I find especially sad is people calling him a victim even after he admitted guilt. They say, "Well, he only did that to avoid more jail time." Which really speaks to a fault of the judicial system if someone can admit to being guilty and serve less time. He's essentially saying, "Yeah, I didn't do this stuff, but I don't want the hassle."

That's oversimplifying but still, you get my point.

Plus, he's been lying to the NFL this whole time so that's not going to go over well. I do think baseball could learn from Goddell and his player conduct policies. I think he does a good job policing that stuff.

sakata_catching

08-21-2007, 11:39 AM

I do think baseball could learn from Goddell and his player conduct policies. I think he does a good job policing that stuff.

He has so far. Gotta wonder if Vick is going to roll over on other players who might be sinking their cash into similar ventures (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2941401) as part of his plea. (*cough*JoeyPorter (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06264/723752-54.stm)*cough*). And you gotta wonder how Goodell will react if 4, 5, 10 more players get outted for direct or indirect involvement in dogfighting rings.

rolliefingers

08-21-2007, 12:14 PM

What I find especially sad is people calling him a victim even after he admitted guilt. They say, "Well, he only did that to avoid more jail time." Which really speaks to a fault of the judicial system if someone can admit to being guilty and serve less time. He's essentially saying, "Yeah, I didn't do this stuff, but I don't want the hassle."

That's oversimplifying but still, you get my point.

Plus, he's been lying to the NFL this whole time so that's not going to go over well. I do think baseball could learn from Goddell and his player conduct policies. I think he does a good job policing that stuff.

If I may generalize wildly...

The amount of distrust that the "African-American Community" has for the police is both understandable and becoming more than a little absurd.

Seriously. I think the Vick case is a pretty clear example of a man getting his just punishment. He'll probably get a reduced sentence for donating money to the SPCA, but he will serve jail time. On the other hand, it's not like he's getting executed, or will never be allowed to make money again. I think the public reaction and the likely formal punishment is well within the bounds of basic fairness.

I guess I'm saying that Vick's defenders need to pick their battles. Sometimes, a crime is really a crime.

Basegirl

08-21-2007, 12:58 PM

He has so far. Gotta wonder if Vick is going to roll over on other players who might be sinking their cash into similar ventures (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2941401) as part of his plea. (*cough*JoeyPorter (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06264/723752-54.stm)*cough*). And you gotta wonder how Goodell will react if 4, 5, 10 more players get outted for direct or indirect involvement in dogfighting rings.

Yeah, that's a very valid point. During halftime of the Giants/Ravens game on Sunday night, Tiki Barber was asked about this. His contention was basically that Vick is talented, so if he's allowed back, someone, some team, somewhere will sign him. But if he rolls on fellow players, he'll be blackballed.

scarey1999

08-22-2007, 04:07 PM

Basegirl

08-22-2007, 04:13 PM

How about Marbury on ESPN today calling dogfighting a "sport" like hunting, but that is done behind closed doors and he doesn't see people trying to go after hunters.

Wow, I knew he was not the sharpest pencil in the jar, but man!

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-marbury-vick&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Yeah, I've actually heard the argument that we can't condemn dogfighting if we're not all practicing vegetarians. Which is insane. I'm pretty sure we don't force the animals we eat to fight each other to the death. I am not so naive to assume that all food animals are always treated humanely, but I really don't think this is the same issue here.

blueberryale77

08-22-2007, 05:08 PM

What's really sad is all of the support that this kid still has from the ATL public who views him as a victim. Can we take a vote to remove that city from the US?

They tried to remove themselves once... we didn't let them. :p

Birds of B'more

08-23-2007, 03:37 AM

How about Marbury on ESPN today calling dogfighting a "sport" like hunting, but that is done behind closed doors and he doesn't see people trying to go after hunters.

Wow, I knew he was not the sharpest pencil in the jar, but man!

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-marbury-vick&prov=ap&type=lgns)

How about the last part, that he apparently "fell into a bad situation." Hmmmm..........Vick fronts all the money for this operation and sets it up at a house he owns.........yep, sounds to me like he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. :rolleyes: Add Marbury to the Idiots In Sports list.

Birds of B'more

08-23-2007, 03:47 AM

What I find especially sad is people calling him a victim even after he admitted guilt. They say, "Well, he only did that to avoid more jail time." Which really speaks to a fault of the judicial system if someone can admit to being guilty and serve less time. He's essentially saying, "Yeah, I didn't do this stuff, but I don't want the hassle."

That's oversimplifying but still, you get my point.

Plus, he's been lying to the NFL this whole time so that's not going to go over well. I do think baseball could learn from Goddell and his player conduct policies. I think he does a good job policing that stuff.

It's also the government's way of thanking Vick for taking a plea, thus saving countless dollars and hours in preparing and carrying out a trial. Oh well, I'm sure the feds will at least find something to do with all that dough they're saving that will truly benefit us all. ;)

Not to get too far off subject, but does anyone remember what punishment Leonard Little of the Rams got? I mean, he actually killed a human being and it doesn't appear his football career was too negatively affected.

Tony-OH

08-23-2007, 10:37 AM

How about Marbury on ESPN today calling dogfighting a "sport" like hunting, but that is done behind closed doors and he doesn't see people trying to go after hunters.

Wow, I knew he was not the sharpest pencil in the jar, but man!

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-marbury-vick&prov=ap&type=lgns)

This is the exact reason why no one, and I mean no one should ever listen to Marbury. I always thought he wa a guy who couldn't fulfill his potential because he wasn't sharp, and these quotes just cemented my inklings.

"I think it's tough," Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors."

scarey1999

08-23-2007, 01:34 PM

This is the exact reason why no one, and I mean no one should ever listen to Marbury. I always thought he wa a guy who couldn't fulfill his potential because he wasn't sharp, and these quotes just cemented my inklings.

"I think it's tough," Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors." I couldn't agree more.

Here is another episode of Starbury's excellence. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yTjebH2fLU) I posted this in the NBA forum a while back. 9min and 37 sec of your life that you will not regret sacrificing trust me.

Near the end of the clip, and I quote, "I wanna see the spit on your mouth". WOW!

Dr. FLK

08-25-2007, 08:06 AM

Can they sentence Vick to euthanasia?

rolliefingers

09-25-2007, 07:38 PM

BaltimoreTerp

09-25-2007, 07:52 PM

Sometimes in situations like this, I consider just going ahead and becoming a real racist just so I'll actually be in the wrong for my views instead of simply being made to feel that way by a bunch of morons.

I wish Dr. King would come back to life for one day, just so he can call out these people for what they are (after he beats the hell out of Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson for their anti-contributions to American race relations). Maybe they'll listen then (if they don't call him an Unc...well, a term I as a white man could never be allowed to use :rolleyes:, first).

rolliefingers

09-25-2007, 08:00 PM

If Dr. King were alive today, I'm sure he would be quite perturbed at seeing that the closest thing to a modern civil rights march is reserved for a millionaire football player who PLED GUILTY to a federal felony.

There's plenty of racism in America today, and I don't think most people would deny that. So...why don't those people in Atlanta protest that stuff?

Birds of B'more

09-25-2007, 08:44 PM

Mark Carver

09-25-2007, 09:38 PM

So what are the odds here that Vick will plead guilty or be convicted by the Commonwealth of Virginia too? Isn't this some sort of double-jeopardy, or can someone be charged for the same crime twice, as long as the charges come from two different jurisdictions? :confused:

They are/were different indictments...

The Feds - plead guilty to conspiring to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiring to sponsor a dog in an animal-fighting venture.

Virginia - one count of beating or killing or causing dogs to fight other dogs and one count of engaging in or promoting dogfighting.

Mark Carver

09-25-2007, 09:41 PM

Hey, while there at it... might as well gang up on him.

Vick defaults on $2.5M loan from Canadian bank, suit says (http://www.ajc.com/falcons/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/09/25/vicksuit_0926_web.html), dated 9/25/07 -

A Canadian bank has filed a federal lawsuit against Michael Vick claiming that the Falcons quarterback has defaulted on a $2.5 million line of credit taken out earlier this year.

According to the suit, filed last week in the eastern district of Virginia, Vick signed a promissory note payable to the Royal Bank of Canada on Jan. 18, and two days later executed a "borrower acknowledgement" stating that any advances would be for investiment in real estate, and that "such proceeds were not to be used primarily for personal, family or household purposes."

The lawsuit claims that Vick is in default of the loan, which carried a balance last week of $2,313,694.37, for "numerous reasons," including that he failed to promptly provide a semi-annual personal financial statement and disclosure of his liquid assets as required by the loan.

The suit also claims that Vick is in default because of an "adverse change" in his employment "which could affect the borrower's ability to repay the note..."

The bank, which does business in the United States as RBC Centura, sent Vick a letter on August 31, demanding full payment by Sept. 10, a deadline Vick failed to meet, according to the suit.

ixcuincle

09-25-2007, 10:22 PM

Did anyone watch the "Vick town meeting" on ESPN?

Simply astounding. How people can sit there and defend this guy is just amazing. Someone brought up Bill Belichick and how the situations and punishments are different. Everyone starting clapping for Vick, like, "Yeah, see, white people do bad stuff, too, so obviously that means dogfighting is OK!"

Just despicable. You do realize that you're allowed to condemn a black person for doing something against the law, right? I know that black folks have been on the short end of the stick many times in America's legal system, but, hey, here's an idea: STOP DEFENDING PEOPLE WHO ARE GUILTY. If the point of defending Vick so vociferously is to show how biased the legal system is against black people, then how about FINDING SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE WRONGLY ACCUSED? It'd sure make your case a whole lot better than it would when you waste your breath defending people who actually committed their crimes.

I haven't felt this alienated from my fellow man in quite some time.

I did. First thing I noticed was when Bob Ley asked people to clap if they thought Vick was being singled out , and there was massive applause. Then some guy in the crowd asked the panel a question , basically "Why does Vick get so much attention but if a white QB did it , it would get less?" and I wanted to yell at the TV "But if a White QB did it , it would almost certainly get the same publicity." Killing dogs is wrong and you'll get the flak for it whether you are white , black , or [insert race here]. Race has nearly nothing to do with this. It's about a quarterback that happened to be black that shot a few dogs and participated in dogfighting. What does this have to do with race? Nothing.

Birds of B'more

09-26-2007, 03:05 PM

This idiot just doesn't know when to quit. :rolleyes:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3037175

Mackus

09-26-2007, 08:01 PM

This idiot just doesn't know when to quit. :rolleyes:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3037175

Its stupid because it was a violation of his release. But in general marijuana use is about as big of a deal to me as children's tylenol use.

rolliefingers

09-26-2007, 08:05 PM

Its stupid because it was a violation of his release. But in general marijuana use is about as big of a deal to me as children's tylenol use.

Don't let Migrant Redbird hear you say that!

ledzepp8

09-26-2007, 11:15 PM

Its stupid because it was a violation of his release. But in general marijuana use is about as big of a deal to me as children's tylenol use.

This about sums it up. He's an idiot for doing it now of all times. But really a little weed never hurt anyone.

rolliefingers

09-29-2007, 09:03 PM

And the hits keep coming!

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7275026

Jeez, why doesn't someone...I dunno...kill his dog, or something.

Wait...

Mark Carver

10-10-2007, 01:22 PM

Vick owes team about $20M (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.nflnotes10oct10,0,6426289.story)

Michael Vick has taken another hit - and this one could cost him nearly $20 million.

Already facing prison time, the disgraced quarterback lost the first round in his financial battle with the Atlanta Falcons when an arbitrator ruled yesterday that Vick should repay much of the bonus money he got while secretly bankrolling a dogfighting ring.

The case is far from over. The players union said it would appeal the ruling by Stephen B. Burbank, a University of Pennsylvania law professor and special master who oversaw last week's arbitration hearing in Philadelphia.
.
.
.

In a highly technical, nine-page ruling, Burbank said the Falcons were entitled to $3.75 million of the $7.5 million bonus that Vick was paid after signing the deal in 2004, $13.5 million of the $22.5 million in roster, reporting and playing bonuses he was paid in 2005 and 2006, and $2.72 million of the $7 million roster, reporting and playing bonuses that he received this year

The Wedge

10-10-2007, 01:53 PM

I have to wonder if the players union is like "oh god, we have to appeal...we really don't wanna, but we have to..."

Birds of B'more

10-10-2007, 03:31 PM

Its stupid because it was a violation of his release. But in general marijuana use is about as big of a deal to me as children's tylenol use.

I'll agree that it is a very minor offense. But given his current circumstances, smoking pot at this time makes him a stupid idiot in my book. Plus, I would think the positive test is only going to make it that much harder for him to play in the NFL again. This guy is digging his own grave and I don't feel least bit sorry for anything that might happen to him now.

And the fact that the NFLPA is standing behind this jerk really irks me to no end. If they want to stick up for someone, how about all those crippled retired players who can't even afford the medical care they need. :mad:

Birds of B'more

10-10-2007, 03:33 PM

I have to wonder if the players union is like "oh god, we have to appeal...we really don't wanna, but we have to..."

If Gene Upshaw and Co. had any moral character, they would just let this one go.

The Wedge

10-10-2007, 03:38 PM

If Gene Upshaw and Co. had any moral character, they would just let this one go.

That's why I think they're like 'oh man, we don't wanna do this..." about it. But they almost have to, just as a lip service to other players. They gotta stand behind him because they're a union.

Birds of B'more

10-10-2007, 03:54 PM

That's why I think they're like 'oh man, we don't wanna do this..." about it. But they almost have to, just as a lip service to other players. They gotta stand behind him because they're a union.

Some union that is. "Let's stand behind this human trainwreck so other players will think we have their back in case they plead guilty to federal indictments and then celebrate by lighting a blunt." If I was an NFL player, I'd be a lot more concerned about what support the union will give me when my playing days are over and I'm so beat up that I live every day in excruciating pain and have to deal with it because my meager pension isn't enough to pay for the best medical care available. :rolleyes:

BaltimoreTerp

10-10-2007, 07:51 PM

I'll agree that it is a very minor offense. But given his current circumstances, smoking pot at this time makes him a stupid idiot in my book. Plus, I would think the positive test is only going to make it that much harder for him to play in the NFL again. This guy is digging his own grave and I don't feel least bit sorry for anything that might happen to him now.

The powers-that-be over at the United Football League are drooling right now.

BaltimoreTerp

10-10-2007, 07:52 PM

Some union that is. "Let's stand behind this human trainwreck so other players will think we have their back in case they plead guilty to federal indictments and then celebrate by lighting a blunt." If I was an NFL player, I'd be a lot more concerned about what support the union will give me when my playing days are over and I'm so beat up that I live every day in excruciating pain and have to deal with it because my meager pension isn't enough to pay for the best medical care available. :rolleyes:

If a defense attorney defends a murderer, do you feel the same way?

That's part of the role of a good union.

RipkenWay

10-11-2007, 01:30 PM

Did you guys see these shirts yet? Horrible!!!

http://www.tmz.com/2007/10/10/vick-em-shirts-too-soon/

Birds of B'more

10-11-2007, 02:09 PM

If a defense attorney defends a murderer, do you feel the same way?

That's part of the role of a good union.

I don't mean to make it sound like Vick shouldn't be entitled to some sort of backing from the player's union. It just angers me that the union would so vehemently defend him and then completely turn their back on all of the former players who could really use their help right now. It just seems so hyocritical.....today's self-centered players wouldn't have half of what they do now if it wasn't for the efforts of the generations of players before them that played the game for no more than the average American laborer of their time.......and the guys today just want to completely ignore them.

BaltimoreTerp

10-12-2007, 04:03 PM

I don't mean to make it sound like Vick shouldn't be entitled to some sort of backing from the player's union. It just angers me that the union would so vehemently defend him and then completely turn their back on all of the former players who could really use their help right now. It just seems so hyocritical.....today's self-centered players wouldn't have half of what they do now if it wasn't for the efforts of the generations of players before them that played the game for no more than the average American laborer of their time.......and the guys today just want to completely ignore them.

The problem is that the two situations aren't similar. One is the union doing their job, and the other is an argument about whether or not something IS their job.

I don't want to hold up the union as an example to be followed, because the retired players have a legitamite issue and the union just looks worse and worse the longer this thing goes on, but we shouldn't connect the two issues here when there is no connection.

BaltimoreTerp

10-12-2007, 04:10 PM

Did you guys see these shirts yet? Horrible!!!

http://www.tmz.com/2007/10/10/vick-em-shirts-too-soon/

They should have added a collapsing bonfire as well :rolleyes:

Objectivity

10-13-2007, 02:01 PM

I don't mean to make it sound like Vick shouldn't be entitled to some sort of backing from the player's union. It just angers me that the union would so vehemently defend him and then completely turn their back on all of the former players who could really use their help right now. It just seems so hyocritical.....today's self-centered players wouldn't have half of what they do now if it wasn't for the efforts of the generations of players before them that played the game for no more than the average American laborer of their time.......and the guys today just want to completely ignore them.

The problem is that the union has no choice. If they don't support him and something similiar happens to a player down the line who doesn't deserve it, then Vick is a precident that can be used against them.

Compared to most high-powered unions though, the NFL one is ok. More than most it puts its members first and follows their wishes instead of leaderships. Can you imagine the MLB union or a labor union allowing their parent organization to punish people who break the law as much as the NFL union agreed last year?

The Wedge

10-14-2007, 12:18 AM

The problem is that the union has no choice. If they don't support him and something similiar happens to a player down the line who doesn't deserve it, then Vick is a precident that can be used against them.

Compared to most high-powered unions though, the NFL one is ok. More than most it puts its members first and follows their wishes instead of leaderships. Can you imagine the MLB union or a labor union allowing their parent organization to punish people who break the law as much as the NFL union agreed last year?

Yeah, exactly. Its not uber powerful, but they have to stand behind Vick because they'd be screwed on precedent if they didn't. I'm sure they hate the fact that they have to appeal the decision of the arbiter, but they'd hate it even more if someone else got screwed in the future as a result.