View Full Version : Former Raven suspended for Steroids
beaner
08-09-2007, 05:37 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2967677
This has completely ruined the "integrity of the game" for me.;)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2967677
This has completely ruined the "integrity of the game" for me.;)
Haha, me too, oh the humanity!:D
orioles119
08-09-2007, 06:53 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2967677
This has completely ruined the "integrity of the game" for me.;)
Okay... let's get into this debate.
Why is it a big deal when a baseball player gets caught with steriods, but not a football player or faux wrestler?
Why?
BaltBird 24
08-09-2007, 08:00 PM
Okay... let's get into this debate.
Why is it a big deal when a baseball player gets caught with steriods, but not a football player or faux wrestler?
Why?
Because baseball is the holy sport, where as people really only care about last year, or what you are going to do this year in football. I'm a very big football fan, but is there any sport but baseball where you can look back as fondly on the history of the game?
orioles119
08-09-2007, 08:09 PM
Because baseball is the holy sport, where as people really only care about last year, or what you are going to do this year in football. I'm a very big football fan, but is there any sport but baseball where you can look back as fondly on the history of the game?
Poor excuse... both the baseball player and the football player are cheaters in my book. Why are they treated differently in the scope of the media and/or fans?
beaner and mweb are practically making a mockery of the whole situation.
beaner
08-09-2007, 08:26 PM
Poor excuse... both the baseball player and the football player are cheaters in my book. Why are they treated differently in the scope of the media and/or fans?
beaner and mweb are practically making a mockery of the whole situation.
Sorry for trying to have a little fun with this. However, I do see your point, but really this all goes back to my point on the Bonds threads that all anyone cares about is Bonds, and no one else. It's because he's a superstar and Obafemi Ayanbejgoddgfd is not. You're right, they're both cheaters, but no one will remember Femi in 2 days, yet Bonds will always be associated with this. It's a double standard although I guess I understand whether I like it or not.
What BaltBird said is dead on in my opinion. Football fans really don't care about history, it is all about the now. Where as Baseball fans really do appreciate the history of the game. I'm not a huge Football Fan, although i do enjoy it.
geschinger
08-09-2007, 10:02 PM
It's all about the stars... This guy's suspension deservedly is getting about as much attention as Ryan Franklin's suspension.
Now if one the NFLs best player were to be suspended.... If a big name player on the cusp of setting a record - say a Ladamian Tomlinson was caught doping up, I can guarantee the criticism would be harsh, the criticism would be brutal, and the criticism would be unrelenting.
orioles119
08-09-2007, 10:06 PM
It's all about the stars... This guy's suspension deservedly is getting about as much attention as Ryan Franklin's suspension.
Now if one the NFLs best player were to be suspended.... If a big name player on the cusp of setting a record - say a Ladamian Tomlinson was caught doping up, I can guarantee the criticism would be harsh, the criticism would be brutal, and the criticism would be unrelenting.
Well, if you remember Shawne Merriman, there was a lot said about his suspension and then it was swept under the rug.
geschinger
08-09-2007, 10:09 PM
Well, if you remember Shawne Merriman, there was a lot said about his suspension and then it was swept under the rug.
It got lots of attention and if they haven't already instituted it his transgressions have led to a rule change that some have dubbed "The Merriman Rule". Baseball has yet to go that far - steroid users are still free to participate in the MLB All Star Game. And great player that he is, he is not really a household name player like a Bonds or Raffy which automatically makes it a less interesting story for the fans/media.
beaner
08-09-2007, 11:53 PM
It got lots of attention and if they haven't already instituted it his transgressions have led to a rule change that some have dubbed "The Merriman Rule". Baseball has yet to go that far - steroid users are still free to participate in the MLB All Star Game. And great player that he is, he is not really a household name player like a Bonds or Raffy which automatically makes it a less interesting story for the fans/media.
Hence the double standard I've been referencing for the past 4 days. When Bonds does something it ruins the "integrity of the game", when Femi does it, not many people give a crap. This thread has had 4 people on it and 8 responses, while the Bonds threads, well they speak for themselves.
geschinger
08-10-2007, 12:34 AM
Hence the double standard I've been referencing for the past 4 days. When Bonds does something it ruins the "integrity of the game", when Femi does it, not many people give a crap. This thread has had 4 people on it and 8 responses, while the Bonds threads, well they speak for themselves.
As I said in the Bonds thread the "integrity of the game" argument doesn't mean much to me. Whether it's Bonds, Ryan Franklin, Shawne Merriman, or Ayanbadejo the scorn they get is earned. Being a huge star has it's benefits but also has some negatives.
If a Hollwyood actor drives drunk tonight and wraps their car around a telephone pole the treatment of the story is going to be dramatically different if the actors name is Jim Beaver rather than Lindsay Lohan.
Bigger star = bigger story... It's an equation that will never change. I guess the double standard should bother me, but I really can't say that it does.
beaner
08-10-2007, 09:31 AM
As I said in the Bonds thread the "integrity of the game" argument doesn't mean much to me. Whether it's Bonds, Ryan Franklin, Shawne Merriman, or Ayanbadejo the scorn they get is earned. Being a huge star has it's benefits but also has some negatives.
If a Hollwyood actor drives drunk tonight and wraps their car around a telephone pole the treatment of the story is going to be dramatically different if the actors name is Jim Beaver rather than Lindsay Lohan.
Bigger star = bigger story... It's an equation that will never change. I guess the double standard should bother me, but I really can't say that it does.
And for whatever reason, it bothers me more than it should. It's just hypocritical, that's all.
geschinger
08-10-2007, 09:41 AM
And for whatever reason, it bothers me more than it should. It's just hypocritical, that's all.
Is it though? I don't think the media focuses on a Bonds more than a Franklin because they think what he did was worse but simply because Bonds being involved makes it a bigger story. I don't know how the media would survive if they tried to equal out coverage. Bonds doing what he did is an interesting story, Ryan Franklin... Not so much.
BaltimoreTerp
08-10-2007, 04:09 PM
Okay... let's get into this debate.
Why is it a big deal when a baseball player gets caught with steriods, but not a football player or faux wrestler?
Why?
Because in football you serve your time and that's that, while in baseball you can chase the most important records in the sport without so much as an acknowledgement.
Because in football you serve your time and that's that, while in baseball you can chase the most important records in the sport without so much as an acknowledgement.
What? I'm sure there's been plenty of football players who've used that haven't been caught as well. And do you really think things would be different if Bonds was suspended for 10 games at some point?
orioles119
08-10-2007, 10:03 PM
Because in football you serve your time and that's that, while in baseball you can chase the most important records in the sport without so much as an acknowledgement.
Serve your time? What is football, the military?
So... it's okay to get caught for steriods in football because the fans don't care about history, yet it's bad in baseball because they do? Whatever.
Elbren
08-10-2007, 10:04 PM
Because in football you serve your time and that's that, while in baseball you can chase the most important records in the sport without so much as an acknowledgement.
Definitely agree with this.
As piss poor as drug testing has been in US sports, at least the NFL acknowledges positive tests, names the players and they serve their suspensions. While I believe that Selig has done some good/great things for baseball, until Congress stepped in, MLB seemed to do everything in it's power to sweep their "problem" under the rug.
At least Merrimen and Ayanbadejo served/will serve their suspensions. Meanwhile, Bonds is celebrated and allowed to chase one of the most hallowed records in all of sports. Not only does MLB not acknowledge the words "Bonds" and "Steroids" in the same sentence, but there are still people who believe that Bonds didn't use PED's. Forget the BALCO evidence, Greg Anderson and his magicial body growth in his 30's. The man's numbers speak for themselves.
In 13 seasons, Bonds only hit 40+ HR's three times. But somehow in 1999 Bonds hit almost as many HR's (34) as he did in 1998 (37) ... in almost 200 fewer AB's. Then, somehow, a 36 year old OFer who averaged just under 32 HR's his entire career went out and slugged 258 HR's ... in just 4 years ... never once having 500 AB's ... 2 seasons of which were under 400 AB's.
There are smoking guns ... there are positive tests ... and then there are large, pink, Vegas-style neon porn signs that point at you and say, "Hi, I've been cheating for almost 10 years, everyone knows it and you can't do anything about it. I cheated my way past some of the greatest players in history, I've stolen their records and I've even made $20 Mil. a year while doing it. Have a nice day."
Elbren
08-10-2007, 10:14 PM
Serve your time? What is football, the military?
So... it's okay to get caught for steriods in football because the fans don't care about history, yet it's bad in baseball because they do? Whatever.
No. I think the point is at least the NFL acknowledges players who test positive and serve out suspensions. Seems like a pretty week system, but at least it's something. And now they have a Commissioner who looks like he may even get tougher with players.
The only reason MLB has anything even remotely similar is because the US Congress stepped in and threatened to intervene. Even now, with MLB's new, "tougher" stance on PED's, one of the sports greatest offenders is sitting center stage nightly and pushing past one of the most hallowed records in baseball ... and they're even celebrating it.
EDIT: By the way ... sucks about Femmy. Used to really like him.
beaner
08-11-2007, 03:07 PM
What? I'm sure there's been plenty of football players who've used that haven't been caught as well. And do you really think things would be different if Bonds was suspended for 10 games at some point?
Of course, that defense is ridiculous. Every Baseball player that has tested positive has been suspended. Had Bonds tested positive and been suspended, it wouldn't have mattered, people still would be hating on him.
Football suspends it's guys too, and that's fine. There's no need to even compare the two. I'm coming to grips finally with the Bigger star= Bigger story/ more hate way of thinking. It's not neccasarily fair, but it's understandable I guess.
Bonds somehow became "more guilty" because he's a mega star as opposed to the Femi types in Football and the Ryan Franklin's in Baseball.
geschinger
08-11-2007, 06:19 PM
Bonds somehow became "more guilty" because he's a mega star as opposed to the Femi types in Football and the Ryan Franklin's in Baseball.
No, he's not more guilty because he's a mega star, he just gets a lot more attention for his guilt.
beaner
08-11-2007, 09:47 PM
No, he's not more guilty because he's a mega star, he just gets a lot more attention for his guilt.
I wasn't talking in the literal sense of course. But people make it seem that way, that's all.