Anyone else cheering for the O's to lose?

[BigDawg819]

Theoretically, yes, it holds merit, but not in historical context. The actual events don't match the theory in regards to the Colts leaving town. The Bullets leaving seemed to be more of a match, but from what I've read and heard, the town never really got behind the Bullets from the word go. The Skipjacks and Bayhawks also never built a solid enough fan base and probably suffered more from the city not caring enough about hockey or pro lacrosse.

Again the basis of the theory is not solely on the Colts, despite what all the dissenters seem to think and harp on. They are merely a portion of the equation, I feel like a broken record, and believe it or not dwindling attendance is a concern for owners. That was one of numerous red flags that was cause for concern for Irsay.......

[RShack]

The Bullets leaving seemed to be more of a match, but from what I've read and heard, the town never really got behind the Bullets from the word go.
The Bullets had the misfortune to play downtown during an era in which many, many people did not want to go downtown under any circumstances. The inner harbor was a bunch of ratty piers and warehouses, and the only new thing downtown was Charles Center. Partially as a result of widespread public aversion to anything downtown, the Bullets never acquired a major fan base and therefore never had the chance to lose that fan base, simple because they never had it to begin with...

[The Wedge]

Again the basis of the theory is not solely on the Colts, despite what all the dissenters seem to think and harp on. They are merely a portion of the equation, I feel like a broken record, and believe it or not dwindling attendance is a concern for owners. That was one of numerous red flags that was cause for concern for Irsay.......

I clearly addressed other franchises you brought up.

And Irsay would have found a way to leave either way. He was going to move the team, period. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't Rachel Phelps the team in order to do so. And when the city and state starting taking concise action to block the move, and amidst numerous proclamations that he wasn't going anywhere, he packed up the trucks and moved before the city could stop him.

[The Wedge]

The Bullets had the misfortune to play downtown during an era in which many, many people did not want to go downtown under any circumstances. The inner harbor was a bunch of ratty piers and warehouses, and the only new thing downtown was Charles Center. Partially as a result of widespread public aversion to anything downtown, the Bullets never acquired a major fan base and therefore never had the chance to lose that fan base, simple because they never had it to begin with...

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was alluding to, albeit worded a tad poorly.

[BigDawg819]

I clearly addressed other franchises you brought up.

And Irsay would have found a way to leave either way. He was going to move the team, period. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't Rachel Phelps the team in order to do so. And when the city and state starting taking concise action to block the move, and amidst numerous proclamations that he wasn't going anywhere, he packed up the trucks and moved before the city could stop him.

I'm not going to keep beating this dead horse with you, its pointless. Trying to convince someone in Baltimore that maybe, just maybe Irsay isn't the devil is like trying to someone from Brooklyn that O'Malley isn't the devil.

You keep proclaiming that Irsay would have found a way regardless, are you now psychic? Since its come to hypotheticals I'll play along; Would he have left if attendance was strong and the fans and the city officials were behind a new stadium?

[The Wedge]

Now you're moving past the point. Honestly the point isn't what Irsay did or didn't do, it's that your initial statement was far too general. Your theory is valid, but it only is completely valid in a bubble. A bubble completely devoid of socio-political influence. You can't honestly expect to paint such a broad stroke with your brush and not be challenged on it, do you?

Again, your point has validity, but you're not taking in to account specific details, of which you admittedly had little personal experience with. There's nothing wrong with your theory in principle, but there are waaaaaay more factors involved than you are giving credit.

[BigDawg819]

Now you're moving past the point. Honestly the point isn't what Irsay did or didn't do, it's that your initial statement was far too general. Your theory is valid, but it only is completely valid in a bubble. A bubble completely devoid of socio-political influence. You can't honestly expect to paint such a broad stroke with your brush and not be challenged on it, do you?

Again, your point has validity, but you're not taking in to account specific details, of which you admittedly had little personal experience with. There's nothing wrong with your theory in principle, but there are waaaaaay more factors involved than you are giving credit.

No I give other factors credit but again I just stated that my theory had merit, which you admit. The ultimate litmus test for my theory is when the Ravens ultimately hit a slide, then we'll see the fickle nature of Baltimore fans. Or maybe we won't........

[RShack]

I'm not going to keep beating this dead horse with you, its pointless. Trying to convince someone in Baltimore that maybe, just maybe Irsay isn't the devil is like trying to someone from Brooklyn that O'Malley isn't the devil.
Oh, stop. O'Malley tried for years to use his own money to build a new domed stadium in Brooklyn. The idiot NY roads-czar insisted that he move the Dodgers out of Brooklyn. O'Malley tried hard to stay in Brooklyn, and he tried hard for several years. When he was told that his only option was to leave Brookyn, he finally agreed. He just picked a different destination than Flushing. The bad guy in that story is the NY roads-czar: he cost NYC both of their NL teams.

I don't think O'Malley is an angel by any means, but comparing Irsay to him is just foolish. As an owner, Irsay had no redeeming qualities. He was a drunk and an ass, and even his own family thought so. Again, it might be helpful if you learned a bit more about history.

[The Wedge]

No I give other factors credit but again I just stated that my theory had merit, which you admit. The ultimate litmus test for my theory is when the Ravens ultimately hit a slide, then we'll see the fickle nature of Baltimore fans. Or maybe we won't........

Well, we're trying to tell you that your blanket statement of a "fickle nature of typical Baltimore fans" (I think your use of typical was probably the barnburner moreso than fickle) is a bit off base.

Orioles: never had "great" attendance numbers when they kicked absolute ass 66-83. The awesome attendance numbers coincided with a new park, the decline both coincided with novelty wearing off and a prolonged stay of non-contention. Neither of which point to a fickle nature.

Football: Not reopening the Colts can of worms, but after they left, the town went crazy trying for a new team. Turned down for socio-economic political reasons until Modell made himself a pariah to Cleveland to get a team here. Been more than embraced since. Stallions were embraced, and left only because the owner knew he stood no chance with an NFL team in town again.

Lacrosse: Fans around here never got on board with the Bayhawks, for reasons that are unknown. Maybe they prefer prep/college play better, but I know they weren't advertised very well either. So that's not really fickle, that's not going from the get go.

Bullets were explained better than me above.

Basically, I think the point is, a typical Baltimore fan is no more or less fickle than other towns fans. With the notable exception of Cubs fans.

[ColumbiaOriole]

No I give other factors credit but again I just stated that my theory had merit, which you admit. The ultimate litmus test for my theory is when the Ravens ultimately hit a slide, then we'll see the fickle nature of Baltimore fans. Or maybe we won't........

What a silly statement. To imply that Baltimore fans are more fickle than those of other cities is completely unfounded and most likely false. Any city has higher attendance when their team is winning. To compare the Colts move to others shows little knowledge of the situation and does nothing to give your "theory" any validity. I suppose that's what happens when one posts anytime any silly little thought runs through their head though.

[Flosman]

Irsay was one of my least favorite humans of all time. However the team was really not supported like it should have been. I actually used to go to alot of games with my father. He would have rather gone to a Skins game as that was his team but even in the mediocre years a skins ticket was hard to get. You could get a ticket for just about any Colts game even in the Bert Jones to Roger Carr days. The Colts also started the tradition of letting other teams fans take over a stadium. If you had the pleasure to see a Colts Steelers game in that era you would have sworn that you were in Pittsburg. I really do not know why it was that way, but it was. I know the city was not going to build a new statium and I remember Parking was a real problem around memorial.

[BigDawg819]

What a silly statement. To imply that Baltimore fans are more fickle than those of other cities is completely unfounded and most likely false. Any city has higher attendance when their team is winning. To compare the Colts move to others shows little knowledge of the situation and does nothing to give your "theory" any validity. I suppose that's what happens when one posts anytime any silly little thought runs through their head though.


Wow your in depth explanations certainly convinced me...... :rolleyes:

Yet another outraged poster that only focuses on the Colts aspect of the equation............. :rolleyes:

[BigDawg819]

Irsay was one of my least favorite humans of all time. However the team was really not supported like it should have been. I actually used to go to alot of games with my father. He would have rather gone to a Skins game as that was his team but even in the mediocre years a skins ticket was hard to get. You could get a ticket for just about any Colts game even in the Bert Jones to Roger Carr days. The Colts also started the tradition of letting other teams fans take over a stadium. If you had the pleasure to see a Colts Steelers game in that era you would have sworn that you were in Pittsburg. I really do not know why it was that way, but it was. I know the city was not going to build a new statium and I remember Parking was a real problem around memorial.

Baltimore has a history of not going to games when teams are successful and those are not promising trends towards turning a profit as an owner. Lest we forget that owners are usually in this arena for turning a profit as opposed to being a "rabid" fan of said team.......

[BaltimoreTerp]

Did you actually read my posts? Did I say that the fans made the Colts leave? The answer is NO! I merely stated that dwindling attendance played a factor. Was it as big of a factor as the inability to get a new stadium or the tremendous offer made by the city of Indianapolis, NO!. Don't pick and choose portions of posts as the theme of them.......

Do you know anything about the situation with the NBA Hornets?

[ColumbiaOriole]

Baltimore has a history of not going to games when teams are successful and those are not promising trends towards turning a profit as an owner. Lest we forget that owners are usually in this arena for turning a profit as opposed to being a "rabid" fan of said team.......

Have you ever heard the saying, "better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and removing all doubt"?

[BigDawg819]

Have you ever heard the saying, "better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and removing all doubt"?

I've heard of it but not to worry, I don't think you're an idiot. Just merely uninformed.......

[oriole_way]

Now only 4 games ahead of the Devil Rays. Amazingly, they have gained 7 games on us over the last 10 games. We also now start a 3 game series against them.

Currently fourth worst team in MLB.

[Doobieman]

Is ANYONE still cheering for these losers to win?

[oriole_way]

Down to a 3 game lead over TB.

Third worst winning percentage in MLB, though we are essentially tied with Florida for 3rd/4th.

[BaltBird 24]

And the best part about it is that we only have to play 19 more games against the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, and Blue Jays.

I wouldn't look forward to the Ranger games, either, considering what they did to us last time.

We do have a game against KC left...........

[BigDawg819]

Well when we ultimately do wind up with the worst record in majors, maybe finally drastic changes will come forth in reshaping this morbid franchise. Plus Pedro Alvarez is a nice consolation prize ;)

[BaltimoreTerp]

Well when we ultimately do wind up with the worst record in majors, maybe finally drastic changes will come forth in reshaping this morbid franchise. Plus Pedro Alvarez is a nice consolation prize ;)

You know, people keep saying, "If X happens and we finally hit rock bottom, maybe things will change."

Then X happens, and either something doesn't change, or something does but it doesn't work.

Why not just start hoping for POSITIVE changes instead of for negative events that might bring about change that could go either way?

[orioles119]

Why not just start hoping for POSITIVE changes instead of for negative events that might bring about change that could go either way?

Because there are egos that need to be swelled, BTerp! Stop veering from the script!

[BaltimoreTerp]

Because there are egos that need to be swelled, BTerp! Stop veering from the script!

Dude, that's MY line :D

[geschinger]

You know, people keep saying, "If X happens and we finally hit rock bottom, maybe things will change."

Then X happens, and either something doesn't change, or something does but it doesn't work.

Why not just start hoping for POSITIVE changes instead of for negative events that might bring about change that could go either way?

I agree w/the general sentiment but I also understand the rock bottom argument as well. In recent years the club has shown enough flashes to convince management that there was a decent core and adding to it might be enough to reverse the fortunes of the team. Maybe, just maybe a last place finish would have convinced Flanagan and Duquette that the previous approach has been a foolish approach.

However, now that MacPhail here I think we have someone who is wise enough to realize that the previous approach has been a foolish approach regardless of where we finish in the standings... I don't think we need to finish in last for him to try and do the right things. I couldn't care less about what our record is over the next several weeks. What I want to see is the youngsters sent out there as often as possible to work through their struggles and hopefully end up having some success to end the year.

[tywright]

There's a real good chance we're going to get the 1st overall pick in the draft

[oriole_way]

I agree w/the general sentiment but I also understand the rock bottom argument as well. In recent years the club has shown enough flashes to convince management that there was a decent core and adding to it might be enough to reverse the fortunes of the team. Maybe, just maybe a last place finish would have convinced Flanagan and Duquette that the previous approach has been a foolish approach.

However, now that MacPhail here I think we have someone who is wise enough to realize that the previous approach has been a foolish approach regardless of where we finish in the standings... I don't think we need to finish in last for him to try and do the right things. I couldn't care less about what our record is over the next several weeks. What I want to see is the youngsters sent out there as often as possible to work through their struggles and hopefully end up having some success to end the year.

Didn't Macphail say something along the lines of not wanting to trade off more players at the trade deadline because the team was playing relatively well at that time?

Or is that my imagination?

[geschinger]

Didn't Macphail say something along the lines of not wanting to trade off more players at the trade deadline because the team was playing relatively well at that time?

Or is that my imagination?

I'm not sure. If so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt being new to the organization. If the team that goes to Fort Lauderdale in Feb is not significantly different than the current roster then I'll have a real problem w/the MacPhail regime.