A humiliating day for ACC Football [Archive]

geschinger

09-09-2007, 01:05 AM

Oklahoma 51 - Miami 10
Nebraska 20 - Wake Forest 17
LSU 48 - Virginia Tech 7
East Carolina 34 - UNC 31

Oh, and the Terps struggled to beat the worst team in Division 1-A.

The ACC should lose its automatic BCS Bowl berth.

The BEast really benefited from getting rid of dead weight. The ACC should of taken Syracuse as well ;)

I'm kidding of course, but it is amazing how poor the ACC has been since raiding the BEast and how well the BEast has done since then. 3 top 15 teams and an emerging USF program that just went into Jordan-Hare Stadium and took out Auburn. Immediately after the raid all the talk was about how the BEast didn't deserve an automatic BCS birth. It's ironic that it's the ACC that has needed to be bailed out by the automatic bid.

ledzepp8

09-09-2007, 01:10 AM

The BEast really benefited from getting rid of dead weight. The ACC should of taken Syracuse as well ;)

I'm kidding of course, but it is amazing how poor the ACC has been since raiding the BEast and how well the BEast has done since then. 3 top 15 teams and an emerging USF program that just went into Jordan-Hare Stadium and took out Auburn. Immediately after the raid all the talk was about how the BEast didn't deserve an automatic BCS birth. It's ironic that it's the ACC that has needed to be bailed out by the automatic bid.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Great win for the USF program and great win for the Big East. Now maybe some of these whiny SEC babies will quit complaining about being the best conference to ever play football who deserves a NC every season.

JohnD

09-09-2007, 01:30 AM

FWIW, Wake Forest was playing with a backup QB and got absolutely no help from bad refereeing against Nebraska. BC looked good.

Birds of B'more

09-09-2007, 05:59 PM

FWIW, Wake Forest was playing with a backup QB and got absolutely no help from bad refereeing against Nebraska. BC looked good.

When a defending conference champ loses on its home field, that's a sign you're not good. But yes, Wake's backup QB was absolutely atrocious.

Sports Guy

09-09-2007, 06:49 PM

The ACC will not be a top conference in this sport unless Miami and FSU are any kind of factors.

Teams like Clemson, BC and GT are usually pretty solid schools...Teams that are going to likely win 6-9 games, make a bowl and have the ability to beat the better teams.

MD, NC St and Virginia are usually teams that go up and down...Not a consistent winning team but can sometimes get you 8 or 9 wins...Usually competing for a bowl.

VaTech is a solid top 15-20 program year in and year out and sometimes they are much better than that.

Wake is getting better but have a bad history.

Duke and UNC are terrible usually with UNC occassionally being ok.

So, it goes back to FSU and Miami....If they are the top 5-10 programs they should be, the ACC is very good...If not, then the conference isn't all that good.

geschinger

09-09-2007, 07:13 PM

beaner

09-09-2007, 07:17 PM

The ACC will not be a top conference in this sport unless Miami and FSU are any kind of factors.

Teams like Clemson, BC and GT are usually pretty solid schools...Teams that are going to likely win 6-9 games, make a bowl and have the ability to beat the better teams.

MD, NC St and Virginia are usually teams that go up and down...Not a consistent winning team but can sometimes get you 8 or 9 wins...Usually competing for a bowl.

VaTech is a solid top 15-20 program year in and year out and sometimes they are much better than that.

Wake is getting better but have a bad history.

Duke and UNC are terrible usually with UNC occassionally being ok.So, it goes back to FSU and Miami....If they are the top 5-10 programs they should be, the ACC is very good...If not, then the conference isn't all that good.

Butch Davis will have Carolina competing for titles like Mack Brown did before you know it.

Birds of B'more

09-09-2007, 07:20 PM

The BEast really benefited from getting rid of dead weight. The ACC should of taken Syracuse as well ;)

I'm kidding of course, but it is amazing how poor the ACC has been since raiding the BEast and how well the BEast has done since then. 3 top 15 teams and an emerging USF program that just went into Jordan-Hare Stadium and took out Auburn. Immediately after the raid all the talk was about how the BEast didn't deserve an automatic BCS birth. It's ironic that it's the ACC that has needed to be bailed out by the automatic bid.

It is ironic, because right before the switch the same was being said about the Big East losing its autmatic bid. I think if it shows us anything it's that this whole automatic bid BS needs to go and every team should have a shot at a BCS bowl based strictly on merit. Wisconsin got screwed last year because of a rule saying no more than 2 teams from one conference can go when they were clearly superior to teams that did make it like Wake and ND. I love college football, but if the powers that be could get out of their own way, it could be even better.

geschinger

09-09-2007, 07:43 PM

It is ironic, because right before the switch the same was being said about the Big East losing its autmatic bid. I think if it shows us anything it's that this whole automatic bid BS needs to go and every team should have a shot at a BCS bowl based strictly on merit. Wisconsin got screwed last year because of a rule saying no more than 2 teams from one conference can go when they were clearly superior to teams that did make it like Wake and ND. I love college football, but if the powers that be could get out of their own way, it could be even better.

If they really wanted to make college football better they'd get rid of the BCS and replace it with a playoff.

Sports Guy

09-09-2007, 08:29 PM

Butch Davis will have Carolina competing for titles like Mack Brown did before you know it.

Certainly possible but until it happens, they aren't much help to the ACC.

Gesch...I think FSU and Miami can be elite again...Miami was elite recently after years of not being elite...They can get back.

Not sure if FSU can be elite as long as Bowden is there....May be time for him to retire and get newer, younger blood in there.

Birds of B'more

09-09-2007, 08:55 PM

geschinger

09-09-2007, 10:02 PM

Certainly possible but until it happens, they aren't much help to the ACC.

Gesch...I think FSU and Miami can be elite again...Miami was elite recently after years of not being elite...They can get back.

Not sure if FSU can be elite as long as Bowden is there....May be time for him to retire and get newer, younger blood in there.

I do to, but I think we're going to see them have success in waves... When they get back one will be a top ten caliber program and the other a top 25 caliber team. Neither school has a monoply on the talent in Florida anymore so I think the days of both of 'em consistently in the top 5/10 is over. Call me crazy, but I don't think we're too far off from the point where Florida has 4 outstanding programs. USF has a lot going for them and in some ways remind me of a Florida State right before they emerged as a national power.

I tend to agree w/you about Bowden. It's probably time for fresh blood. Just as long as they don't go looking for his replacement where they found Bowden. ;)

BaltimoreTerp

09-09-2007, 10:33 PM

If they really wanted to make college football better they'd get rid of the BCS and replace it with a playoff.

Ding ding ding...we have a winner.

PeteCanes

09-10-2007, 12:08 PM

All Clown Conference.

PeteCanes

09-10-2007, 01:01 PM

I'm not sure if FSU and Miami will ever get back to the point where both teams are consistenlty in the top 5-10. Neither program has a lock on the recruitment of the best talent in Florida like they've had in the past and having better horses than everyone else was a primary factor in their success.

http://miami.scout.com/a.z?s=13&p=9&c=8&yr=2007

http://miami.scout.com/a.z?s=13&p=9&c=8&yr=2008

That looks like progress to me. You do have a point though, schools such as Rutgers have tapped into the talent pool big time. Randy Shannon needs to rebuild that wall.

Sportsguy, you are right about Bowden, he is killing FSU right now.

Birds of B'more

09-20-2007, 10:52 PM

Very impressive showing by Miami tonight.

mweb

10-17-2007, 11:07 PM

According to ESPN's recruiting section, as of now, the top 10 recruiting classes are:

Miami
USC
Notre Dame
Georgia
Texas
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Clemson
FSU
Alabama

Looks quite good for the ACC. Not seeing any Big East schools there either. In fact, not one top 100 guy has committed to a Big East school as of yet. And only 2 in the top 150, both going to PITT. Didn't notice any Big East schools leading for the undecided's either, did see many of them list an ACC school as the leader though.:)

And if we go back to last year, the ACC has Miami at 9, UNC at 11, GT at 14, VT at 15, Clemson at 18, and FSU at 25. The Big East had PITT at 19. So it seems like PITT should improve, but otherwise, the ACC seems to have a huge recruiting edge over the Big East, we'll see how it translates to the field.

geschinger

10-17-2007, 11:45 PM

According to ESPN's recruiting section, as of now, the top 10 recruiting classes are:

Miami
USC
Notre Dame
Georgia
Texas
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Clemson
FSU
Alabama

Looks quite good for the ACC. Not seeing any Big East schools there either. In fact, not one top 100 guy has committed to a Big East school as of yet. And only 2 in the top 150, both going to PITT. Didn't notice any Big East schools leading for the undecided's either, did see many of them list an ACC school as the leader though.:)

The BEast will be fine. What they lack in top ranked recruits they make up for with superior coaching. If a conferences strength was decided on signing day the ACC would be a lot closer to being the best BCS conference instead of being the worst of 'em. Teams like FSU and Miami almost always get stellar recruiting classes but that doesn't necessarily translate into a high ranking.

mweb

10-17-2007, 11:54 PM

The BEast will be fine. What they lack in top ranked recruits they make up for with superior coaching. If a conferences strength was decided on signing day the ACC wouldn't be a lot closer to being the best BCS conference instead of being the worst of 'em. Teams like FSU and Miami almost always get stellar recruiting classes but that doesn't necessarily translate into a high ranking.

You can sugarcoat it all you like, but 0 guys in the top 100 is quite bad. Petrino leaving takes away from that great coaching you claim the conference has. And Miami was great until recently where they had some issues, but now with the new coach, and with some great recruiting, they should rise again.

I'm not sure the ACC is the worst conference this year either, and it's not like they're consistently the worst either.

Birds of B'more

10-18-2007, 12:03 AM

mweb

10-18-2007, 12:05 AM

The ACC is far from the worst conference. However, among the 6 automatic BCS conferences, the ACC is sixth as of right now.......and the stats bear that out. (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc07.htm)

Yeah, I saw that, but it's close, and although I have no problem putting a lot of weight into that, I wouldn't only rely on that.

My post was talking about the future though, and some ACC programs should improve due to their recruiting, and of course coaching is important, but if the ACC easily outrecruits the Big East consistently, they'll usually be the better conference.

geschinger

10-18-2007, 12:17 AM

You can sugarcoat it all you like, but 0 guys in the top 100 is quite bad. Petrino leaving takes away from that great coaching you claim the conference has. And Miami was great until recently where they had some issues, but now with the new coach, and with some great recruiting, they should rise again.

I'm not sure the ACC is the worst conference this year either, and it's not like they're consistently the worst either.

I'm not trying to sugarcoat anything, frankly I couldn't care less about the recruiting scorecards. If you have a chance, take a look at the recruiting class rankings for the BEast schools from 5 years ago through today and it will be clear why I don't care.

Losing Petrino did hurt but Rich Rodriguez, Greg Schiano are among the best of the best and what Jim Leavitt has done has to be catapulting his name up the ranks.

As for the ACC conference... it has been the weakest conference since the major realignment and in the systems that I've seen that try to objectively rank conferences they are again this year - a bit behind the B10 at this point.

mweb

10-18-2007, 12:41 AM

I'm not trying to sugarcoat anything, frankly I couldn't care less about the recruiting scorecards. If you have a chance, take a look at the recruiting class rankings for the BEast schools from 5 years ago through today and it will be clear why I don't care.

Losing Petrino did hurt but Rich Rodriguez, Greg Schiano are among the best of the best and what Jim Leavitt has done has to be catapulting his name up the ranks.

As for the ACC conference... it has been the weakest conference since the major realignment and in the systems that I've seen that try to objectively rank conferences they are again this year - a bit behind the B10 at this point.

Can you show me the conference rankings from before this year? Or the Big East's recruiting from a few years ago?

The ACC was the highest or 2nd highest ranked conference in 2004 depending on which average you want to use. I can't find the other years. However, the ACC looked pretty good in 2005, better than the Big East from glancing at the conferences.

So you don't care that WVU got Noel Devine? The Big East has had a couple decent years, but to be good long term, recruiting is very important, and I'm sure you'd prefer the Big East to be doing better in that regard.

Concerning those coaches, with the probable exception of your schools coach, I'm guessing any of the others one's would likely bolt if some legit big time programs came calling.

geschinger

10-18-2007, 01:15 AM

Can you show me the conference rankings from before this year? Or the Big East's recruiting from a few years ago?

The ACC was the highest or 2nd highest ranked conference in 2004 depending on which average you want to use. I can't find the other years.

So you don't care that WVU got Noel Devine? The Big East has had a couple decent years, but to be good long term, recruiting is very important, and I'm sure you'd prefer the Big East to be doing better in that regard.

Concerning those coaches, with the probable exception of your schools coach, I'm guessing any of the others one's would likely bolt if some legit big time programs came calling.

You are correct, if we go by the date that the ACC realigned rather than when the BEast had it's realignment the ACC fared much better. And I do remember that the BEast was truly awful pre their major realignment. As for old rankings, I'm not sure where to find 'em. For the last two years at least, looking at the BCS rankings will show how much the ACC has struggled.

Of course I'm glad about getting Devine and yes recruiting is very important. But I'm not worried about landing players that some organization decides are top 100 players. There are a lot of great players out there, while the teams a the top of the recruiting scoreboard fight over Xavier Lee or Rhett Bomar (top QBs in 2004) I trust RR to find a Pat White. It doesn't take landing a bunch of top 100 players to do a good recruiting job. It doesn't bother me one bit not to see WVU in the top 10 or top 20 recruiting classes.

As for the coaches, maybe, maybe not... Schiano decided staying at Rutgers and in the BEast was more attractive than bolting for the ACC and the University of Miami job when he turned them down.

mweb

10-18-2007, 01:39 AM

You are correct, if we go by the date that the ACC realigned rather than when the BEast had it's realignment the ACC fared much better. And I do remember that the BEast was truly awful pre their major realignment. As for old rankings, I'm not sure where to find 'em. For the last two years at least, looking at the BCS rankings will show how much the ACC has struggled.

Of course I'm glad about getting Devine and yes recruiting is very important. But I'm not worried about landing players that some organization decides are top 100 players. There are a lot of great players out there, while the teams a the top of the recruiting scoreboard fight over Xavier Lee or Rhett Bomar (top QBs in 2004) I trust RR to find a Pat White. It doesn't take landing a bunch of top 100 players to do a good recruiting job. It doesn't bother me one bit not to see WVU in the top 10 or top 20 recruiting classes.

As for the coaches, maybe, maybe not... Schiano decided staying at Rutgers and in the BEast was more attractive than bolting for the ACC and the University of Miami job when he turned them down.

Last year the ACC wasn't that good at the top, but had a lot of solid teams, the Big East was the opposite, 3 very good teams, but not much else. Yes, the ACC has been down the last 2 years, but it's still only 2 years, the way you write, it makes it seem like it's been a lot longer than that.

So you wouldn't prefer to be in the top 20? Or to have some of the other Big East schools be in the top 20? Yes, they were able to get a few key sleepers recently, but you can't count on that coming through consistently. The higher rated players are usually going to end up better.

Well Miami was in a lot of turmoil at the time, and we'll see how he feels about that when Miami returns to being a power while Rutgers falls back down.

Bottomline to me, the Big East has won the battle of the last two years, but not by as much as you seem to indicate, but I'm confident the ACC will win the war. Better programs and better recruiting will win out imo.

geschinger

10-18-2007, 09:14 AM

Last year the ACC wasn't that good at the top, but had a lot of solid teams, the Big East was the opposite, 3 very good teams, but not much else. Yes, the ACC has been down the last 2 years, but it's still only 2 years, the way you write, it makes it seem like it's been a lot longer than that.

So you wouldn't prefer to be in the top 20? Or to have some of the other Big East schools be in the top 20? Yes, they were able to get a few key sleepers recently, but you can't count on that coming through consistently. The higher rated players are usually going to end up better.

Well Miami was in a lot of turmoil at the time, and we'll see how he feels about that when Miami returns to being a power while Rutgers falls back down.

Bottomline to me, the Big East has won the battle of the last two year, but not by as much as you seem to indicate, but I'm confident the ACC will win the war. Better programs and better recruiting will win out imo.

You are correct, it has only been a short time since the new and improve BEast was born. But even in the short term this turn of events is something I'm sure Swofford never saw coming. I know the ACC will improve over time but after all his proclaimations after the raid about how great the ACC is, I can't help but enjoy their struggles.

I would of course love to see BEast teams get the best recruits possible but with as much talent as there is out there, the difference between top 20 recruiting class and the next 20 is not all that significant.

As for Schiano, why are you assuming that Rutgers is going to fall back down? He's building a solid program that will be good for years to come. My prediction is that if he leaves Rutgers it will be to the NFL. He's not going to jump to another college program. I also should point out that Leavitt also rebuffed Miami and Alabama to stay at USF.

I do agree w/you that the ACC will bounce back and be a very good conference. I'm not sure how you are defining programs but I am sure I would disagree that the ACC has "better" programs. In the end, much to Swofford's chagrin there will continue to be six BCS worthy conferences that will have their ups and downs.

mweb

10-18-2007, 02:38 PM

You are correct, it has only been a short time since the new and improve BEast was born. But even in the short term this turn of events is something I'm sure Swofford never saw coming. I know the ACC will improve over time but after all his proclaimations after the raid about how great the ACC is, I can't help but enjoy their struggles.

I would of course love to see BEast teams get the best recruits possible but with as much talent as there is out there, the difference between top 20 recruiting class and the next 20 is not all that significant.

As for Schiano, why are you assuming that Rutgers is going to fall back down? He's building a solid program that will be good for years to come. My prediction is that if he leaves Rutgers it will be to the NFL. He's not going to jump to another college program. I also should point out that Leavitt also rebuffed Miami and Alabama to stay at USF.

I do agree w/you that the ACC will bounce back and be a very good conference. I'm not sure how you are defining programs but I am sure I would disagree that the ACC has "better" programs. In the end, much to Swofford's chagrin there will continue to be six BCS worthy conferences that will have their ups and downs.

I just just don't buy that Rutgers is going to be consistently good, I doubt they turn out to be any better than what MD is.

Concerning better programs, I don't see how you can disagree unless you're just basing it off these last two years or predicting the future. Miami, FSU, and VaTech are better programs than any Big East school. The next tier of the ACC is at least as good program wise as schools 4-6 in the Big East.

The Big East has some programs that are at high points, maybe they'll mantain that and become very good to great programs, but as of now their not there. The Big East does not have an elite program, and schools like Rutgers, Cincy, and UConn are not even good programs as of now imo. They need to continue doing well to become that. Maybe WVU and/or USF will become elite programs, we shall see. Louisville had a chance, but I doubt that will happen with them with the loss of Petrino.

geschinger

10-18-2007, 04:26 PM

I just just don't buy that Rutgers is going to be consistently good, I doubt they turn out to be any better than what MD is.

Concerning better programs, I don't see how you can disagree unless you're just basing it off these last two years or predicting the future. Miami, FSU, and VaTech are better programs than any Big East school. The next tier of the ACC is at least as good program wise as schools 4-6 in the Big East.

The Big East has some programs that are at high points, maybe they'll mantain that and become very good to great programs, but as of now their not there. The Big East does not have an elite program, and schools like Rutgers, Cincy, and UConn are not even good programs as of now imo. They need to continue doing well to become that. Maybe WVU and/or USF will become elite programs, we shall see. Louisville had a chance, but I doubt that will happen with them with the loss of Petrino.

We'll see about Rutgers. They have the potential to be the program for the North East. The Big East programs are on the ascension while FSU and Miami have slipped. Fundamentally, I guess where we differ is that I'm assuming you think some of the Big East success is flukish or an aberration rather than them being programs that are being taken to the next level. If I am correct I would ask what you think FSU or UM had when they made the move to being elitish programs in the 80s/90s that is lacking w/the USF program? I do think as long as RR and Schiano remain that WVU and Rutgers are going to be a consistently top 20ish programs. VT is in similar position w/Beamer and I do expect Miami to rebound under Shannon but I am becoming more and more convinced that FSU needs a coaching change to get back to being an elitish program.

mweb

10-18-2007, 05:12 PM

We'll see about Rutgers. They have the potential to be the program for the North East. The Big East programs are on the ascension while FSU and Miami have slipped. Fundamentally, I guess where we differ is that I'm assuming you think some of the Big East success is flukish or an aberration rather than them being programs that are being taken to the next level. If I am correct I would ask what you think FSU or UM had when they made the move to being elitish programs in the 80s/90s that is lacking w/the USF program? I do think as long as RR and Schiano remain that WVU and Rutgers are going to be a consistently top 20ish programs. VT is in similar position w/Beamer and I do expect Miami to rebound under Shannon but I am becoming more and more convinced that FSU needs a coaching change to get back to being an elitish program.

I'm not saying anything about USF not becoming an elite program. I'm saying right now the ACC has the better programs. Will USF, Rutgers, WVU, and Louisville become elite programs, maybe, I don't know, I highly doubt it with Rutgers and Louisville though.

Concerning what is lacking with USF, well as of right now, recruiting is lacking, as it is with the whole conference. Obviously that should improve due to the success of the team and conference, but I still think they'll be 4th in the state in recruiting, and that will likely lead to them being no higher than the 3rd best program in the state. I do agree with you about FSU and Bowden, they'll still be good with him, and will still recruit very well, but changing coaches will help.

geschinger

10-18-2007, 06:29 PM

I'm not saying anything about USF not becoming an elite program. I'm saying right now the ACC has the better programs. Will USF, Rutgers, WVU, and Louisville become elite programs, maybe, I don't know, I highly doubt it with Rutgers and Louisville though.

I do think WVU is every bit as good a program as VT, UM and FSU are right now. They are on pace for their 3rd top 10 finish in a row. FSU and UM certainly have the potential to get back to performing like top notch teams and vaulting over WVU but hey still have a lot of work to do. Only the passage of time will determine who (me) is right. ;)

I do have a question for you... How many more seasons in a row with 3-6 losses do you give FSU/Miami before considering that they've slipped to the point of no longer being the elite program they used to be?

Concerning what is lacking with USF, well as of right now, recruiting is lacking, as it is with the whole conference. Obviously that should improve due to the success of the team and conference, but I still think they'll be 4th in the state in recruiting, and that will likely lead to them being no higher than the 3rd best program in the state. I do agree with you about FSU and Bowden, they'll still be good with him, and will still recruit very well, but changing coaches will help.

I have a feeling USF's ranking in the recruiting scorecard is going to rise quite a bit between now and signing day. If they run the table it make a monster difference in future years but I still expect them to lose at least one game this year. Maybe even tonight as it's the perfect scenario for an upset... On the road against a good team right after having their heads swollen by all the national attention.

mweb

10-18-2007, 06:51 PM

I do think WVU is every bit as good a program as VT, UM and FSU are right now. They are on pace for their 3rd top 10 finish in a row. FSU and UM certainly have the potential to get back to performing like top notch teams and vaulting over WVU but hey still have a lot of work to do. Only the passage of time will determine who (me) is right. ;)

I do have a question for you... How many more seasons in a row with 3-6 losses do you give FSU/Miami before considering that they've slipped to the point of no longer being the elite program they used to be?

I have a feeling USF's ranking in the recruiting scorecard is going to rise quite a bit between now and signing day. If they run the table it make a monster difference in future years but I still expect them to lose at least one game this year. Maybe even tonight as it's the perfect scenario for an upset... On the road against a good team right after having their heads swollen by all the national attention.

They're no longer as elite as they used to be, but there are certain schools that can go through a few mediocre or just good years, and still be elite programs imo. If neither team gets back to being elite on the field within the next few years, I'll say their no longer elite programs, but still have great potential to return to elite.

WVU certainly has done better the last 3 years, but I don't consider them an elite program, and I'll take Miami's future over their's. Not sure about FSU because of what I said in my last post.

Having a great 3 year run does not make a program elite, many schools are very good to great in the short run, showing you can mantain success for a longer period of time makes a program elite imo.

Birds of B'more

10-18-2007, 07:02 PM

I do have a question for you... How many more seasons in a row with 3-6 losses do you give FSU/Miami before considering that they've slipped to the point of no longer being the elite program they used to be?

How many down seasons do you think should be allowed? Just about every program has its peaks and valleys. USC was practically irrelevent for quite a few years before Pete Carroll got there. Same for Oklahoma before Bob Stoops. Do we take into account those periods of time and say USC and Oklahoma are not elite? Or is the short list of elite programs something that is modified on a yearly basis?

Birds of B'more

10-18-2007, 07:27 PM

They're no longer as elite as they used to be, but there are certain schools that can go through a few mediocre or just good years, and still be elite programs imo. If neither team gets back to being elite on the field within the next few years, I'll say their no longer elite programs, but still have great potential to return to elite.

WVU certainly has done better the last 3 years, but I don't consider them an elite program, and I'll take Miami's future over their's. Not sure about FSU because of what I said in my last post.

Having a great 3 year run does not make a program elite, many schools are very good to great in the short run, showing you can mantain success for a longer period of time makes a program elite imo.

I agree. There's a difference between being an elite team and an elite program. And being an elite program is usually about much more than the on-field results. Take Notre Dame, for instance........as much as I despise them I would call them an elite program without hesitation, even though they haven't fielded an elite team since Lou Holtz coached there. But they have the largest fan base of any program, their own network TV contract that practically gives them a license to print money, they can sell out any stadium in the country just by showing up, and even now are getting commits from the most high-demand recruits despite being 1-6........that's an elite program.

geschinger

10-18-2007, 08:52 PM

How many down seasons do you think should be allowed? Just about every program has its peaks and valleys. USC was practically irrelevent for quite a few years before Pete Carroll got there. Same for Oklahoma before Bob Stoops. Do we take into account those periods of time and say USC and Oklahoma are not elite? Or is the short list of elite programs something that is modified on a yearly basis?

I guess it's all semantics. All those programs you mentioned have a lot more history than the roughly two decades that UM/FSU have. When I think of all-time programs I think of Oklahoma, Michigan, Alabama, Ohio State, Nebraska, USC, Notre Dame etc... IMO, UM and FSU are not in that class. And while a program like Nebraska is an all-time program IMO, I wouldn't consider them as currently being elite. I think they need to find a way to restore the program back to elite status. IMO Stoops and Carroll restored Oklahoma and USC respectively back into being elite programs. To answer your questions, I think a player generation is fair.

geschinger

10-18-2007, 09:00 PM

They're no longer as elite as they used to be, but there are certain schools that can go through a few mediocre or just good years, and still be elite programs imo. If neither team gets back to being elite on the field within the next few years, I'll say their no longer elite programs, but still have great potential to return to elite.

WVU certainly has done better the last 3 years, but I don't consider them an elite program, and I'll take Miami's future over their's. Not sure about FSU because of what I said in my last post.

Having a great 3 year run does not make a program elite, many schools are very good to great in the short run, showing you can mantain success for a longer period of time makes a program elite imo.

I don't consider WVU to be elite either but I like them over the next few years a lot more than FSUs for the same reasons you mention. The jury is still out on Miami but I am relatively confident there won't be a ton of separation between Miami and WVU over the next few years.

IMO, it all comes down to the quality of the coach running the program.

Birds of B'more

08-31-2008, 03:06 PM

Thought it would be appropriate to continue this thread where we left off.

NC State 0
S. Carolina 34

Virginia 7
USC 52

Virginia Tech 22
E. Carolina 27

Clemson 10
Alabama 34

With Clemson and VT losing, that should effectively eliminate the ACC from any discussion involving the National Championship....not that they were ever really in the discussion to begin with.

Birds of B'more

09-14-2008, 02:24 AM

A bit of a bounce-back week for the ACC, with MD and UNC getting big OOC victories and even lowly Duke beat a perennial bowl team in Navy. UVA's humiliating loss at UConn was bad, but UVA might be the worst team in the ACC this year.

On the other hand, it was horrid day for the Pac 10 despite USC's big win.....

Cal 27
MD 35

Stanford 14
TCU 31

UCLA 0
BYU 59

Okla 55
Wash 14

Ariz 28
New Mex. 36

UNLV 23
ASU 20

And Oregon needed overtime to escape Purdue with a win....and they lost yet another starting QB.