McBillicked

[Tony-OH]

I think we're going to be saying that a lot this season. As in, we were McBillicked.

Yes, the Ravens got ripped on the phantom offensive pass interearence on Hep, and yes the Ravens shouldn't have even been in the game due to the ridiculous amount of turnovers, but Brian Billick's play callling in the fourth quarter was atrocious.

His ridiculous 15-year pass play on 3rd and one when the team had all the momentum set the tone for the rest of the game. Add that to the ridiculous pass calls on the goal line and he basically told McGahee and his young line that he has no faith in them whatsoever.

I'm not sure whether Billck was trying to make a point or what with his play calling, but the only point he made was that he chokes under the pressure of making what should be pretty generic calls late in games.

McNair of course was pressure all game pretty much but even when he wasn't his floaters were either off target or got there too late. I had my doubts last season that were cemented in the Colts loss and reaffirmed tonight, and that's McNair does not have the arm strength or mobility to be an effective quarterback at this level anymore. Father time has caught up to him and unfortunately we will waste another year with a gret defense as Billick will keep going with McNair unless he gets hurt.

The Ravens defense was pretty outstanding most of the night with Reed having ahuge game and Ray toughing out an obvious tricep injury (let's hope this doesn't keep him out). Losing Ogden hurt but I wasn't counting on him anywhere because he hadn't practiced much and it's apparent this toe inury may be the end to his great career.

Turnovers, penalties, and poor play calling with a mix of bad reffing in key times and we still only lost by seven. That's the only thing that keeps me from being too down.....

[Mackus]

McNair lost the game. Billick took away our chance to tie it.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Somebody in another thread put it very well in saying Billick out-thought himself.

He tried to be cute by throwing on the short plays late, probably thinking that Cincy would (rightly) be looking for the run.

Doesn't excuse it though. He made some bad calls late.

However, the game is on McNair completely. Boller starts, and we likely aren't having this discussion.

[Tank]

I agree with pretty much everything you say here Tony. McNair looked done. I hope Boller is our starting quarterback next week, but I doubt it.

[Sports Guy]

Billick definitely should have called some running plays but Boller did throw one TD pass and should have had another.

So even though he called too many passes, it should have worked and it did work but the refs blew a call(Billick called out the refs as well).

[nadecir]

January 13, 2007 Score Colts, 6 - Ravens, 3, Second quarter

3rd and 4 at IND 4 (9:21) (Shotgun) S.McNair pass short middle intended for T.Heap INTERCEPTED by A.Bethea at IND 1. A.Bethea to IND 1 for no gain (M.Anderson).


September 10, 2007 Score Bengal, 27 - Ravens, 20

3rd and 2 at CIN 2 (1:19) K.Boller pass short middle intended for T.Heap INTERCEPTED by M.Myers at CIN -2. Touchback. {Pass deflected by Heap (BLT#86), then off L.Johnson (CIN#59), then was caught by M.Myers (CIN#96)}

You think Brian Billick would have learned something from last years playoff lass. Somebody please tell Billick that passing over the middle from inside the five yard line is a LOW percentage play.

[Tony-OH]

Billick definitely should have called some running plays but Boller did throw one TD pass and should have had another.

So even though he called too many passes, it should have worked and it did work but the refs blew a call(Billick called out the refs as well).

We can say woulda or coulda all day Rob, what he shoulda done was run the damn ball and we don't have to worry about phantom pass interfearance calls and dropped passes. Those are part of the risk of passing and exactly why you don't pass in those situations.

I don't think there is any way for Billick to be defended here at all. He blew it, plain and simple with stupid play calls. His running game was working, and he ridiculously went to the air when he should have been pounding the ball.

If the Ravens can't move the the ball two yards in two downs they don't deserve to win.

[BaltimoreTerp]

We can say woulda or coulda all day Rob, what he shoulda done was run the damn ball and we don't have to worry about phantom pass interfearance calls and dropped passes. Those are part of the risk of passing and exactly why you don't pass in those situations.

I don't think there is any way for Billick to be defended here at all. He blew it, plain and simple with stupid play calls. His running game was working, and he ridiculously went to the air when he should have been pounding the ball.

If the Ravens can't move the the ball two yards in two downs they don't deserve to win.

We didn't deserve to win that game anyway :p

Are you really willing to ignore all of the crap that put us in the position for those poor play calls (and they WERE poor) to have any effect?

[Tony-OH]

We didn't deserve to win that game anyway :p

Are you really willing to ignore all of the crap that put us in the position for those poor play calls (and they WERE poor) to have any effect?

What's your point? Is it that Billick made some good play calls during the game? Well, I would hope a professional play-caller would do that occasionally throughout a game. What I don't expect is for the guy to completely abandoned the run in three separate crucial times in the game by calling low percentage pass plays instead of running.

Sorry, not even you can take up for Billick this time. He choked, pure and simple. Combined with McNair poor performance througout the game, it cost us a game we should have won.

[Mackus]

What's your point? Is it that Billick made some good play calls during the game? Well, I would hope a professional play-caller would do that occasionally throughout a game. What I don't expect is for the guy to completely abandoned the run in three separate crucial times in the game by calling low percentage pass plays instead of running.

Sorry, not even you can take up for Billick this time. He choked, pure and simple. Combined with McNair poor performance througout the game, it cost us a game we should have won.I agree that the playcalling was awful at the end of the game, but just based on that you can't argue that Billick lost us the game, just that he lost us an opportunity to go to OT. I think McNair gets much more blame for the overall loss than Billick should, unless you want to argue Billick should get blamed for playing McNair to begin with.

[Tony-OH]

That why I said McBillicked..McNair first, then Billick :D

[The Wedge]

I was saying it during the game, McNair looks like he should have hung the cleats up. I don't care if he's nursing a groin injury, he had the same problem all night, over throwing. He's supposed to be the smart one, why couldn't he adjust that? Is it because he's over throwing as a compensation for a dimimished ability? Couldn't be!

And yeah, I totally think Billick out-thought himself. My line of thinking was the same as his, really. The Bengals had to be looking for the run, try a pass. But you don't forsake the run completely for that strategy, try it on ONE down to catch them off guard and get them thinking. Especially when we had owned the line of scrimmage most of the game, but especially late. Billick's ego screwed us there.

If I were to try and delineate that loss I'd have to say:
McNair - 40%
Massive TO's - 20%
Billick's "last series" play calling - 20%
The ability of the refs to distinguish offense and defense re: pass interference - 20%

[DuffMan]

McNair looked like Dainel Cabrera out there last night!!! Even when he wasn't pressured his passes were floating all over the place.

[ChrisP]

I agree completely. That 3rd and one call was horrible. Willis was having a pretty good night. One yard was a given. They had the lead and should have made their shell and ran the ball 10 straight times.

Random thoughts...
How do they beat Manning? They keep him off the field....If you give Carson enough chances to beat you, he will. I was thrilled when Boller came into the game. The pass to Mason to the 5 was beautiful. I think Heap's ball was thrown 100 mph, but it hit him in the numbers. They should have never been in that position though...I like Steve's toughness, but sometimes he needs to suck it up and take the sack. That's when he fumbles and throws the INT's. Why was everyone of his passes 3 feet to high? It's a good thing out WR's can jump.

Pittsburgh will destroy them if they play like that. Sure Carson was pressured some, but where were the sacks? Great inside run defense. The Cover 2 worked, but I sure would have liked to see an INT when they throw the ball so much. I liked Willis more than I thought I would. How many times did the momentum change last night? What a crazy hard-hitting game to start the season.

Final thought.....This is a Wild Card team with McNair leading them. I hope he proves me wrong.

[66-70-83-??]

Billick didn't lose this game with his playcalling. Not even close.

The Ravens turned the ball over 6 times. McNair turned it over 4 times.

End of story.

They can run that same play to Heap 100 times- 90 times Heap catches that ball, 9 times it falls to the turf, 1 time a defender grabs it just as it is about to hit the turf.

If they ran and fumbled, fans would be complaining it is the "same old predictable Ravens, Cincy just KNEW they would run it up the middle".....

Billick is damned either way. He is either too predictable or too cute.

How about that long pass on 4th and 1 to Mason ? No one is complaining about that playcall. Or the 1st down from the 6 to McGahee up the middle for 4.

It comes down to execution, not playcalling. These are big boys and they should be able to execute both pass and run calls.

The players have to execute. There is no guarantee that they would have executed whichever play that was called.

[Dr. FLK]

Somebody in another thread put it very well in saying Billick out-thought himself.

He tried to be cute by throwing on the short plays late, probably thinking that Cincy would (rightly) be looking for the run.

Doesn't excuse it though. He made some bad calls late.

However, the game is on McNair completely. Boller starts, and we likely aren't having this discussion.

That's pretty much what I kept screaming at my television. "Please stop all the cute #$%#%#$!!!" McNair was getting knocked around early. He made some bad throws. But, the play calling was just putrid. They never gave Willis a chance to get going. Musa was running well, and they stopped using him. It was completely frustrating play calling.

[The Wedge]

By the way, you may wish to trademark McBillicked before Preston gets a hold of it, Tony.

[McLovin]

I think we're going to be saying that a lot this season. As in, we were McBillicked.
It looked to me like we were McNaired.


His ridiculous 15-year pass play on 3rd and one when the team had all the momentum set the tone for the rest of the game.
That looked like a great call to me. Mason was wide the hell open, it would have been a big play. It was an easy throw, and McNair threw it four feet over his head.

McNair is 100% responsible for this loss. Everytime the defense, and yes, the aggressive playcalling, got us back into the game, he choked.

[NewMarketSean]

Worst play calling by Billick in his time here. Even Mike Martz would run the ball in those situations late in the 4th quarter.

Worst blown call by the ref I have ever seen in my time watching football too. Calling 12 men on the field when there are 11 isn't even worse than that call last night on Heap.

Just a nightmare of a game. To be in it until the end is what makes it so painful. Had we turned the ball over 6 times and lost 35-10 it wouldn't have been as bad. But this was just painful.

[Sports Guy]

Worst play calling by Billick in his time here. Even Mike Martz would run the ball in those situations late in the 4th quarter.

Worst blown call by the ref I have ever seen in my time watching football too. Calling 12 men on the field when there are 11 isn't even worse than that call last night on Heap.

Just a nightmare of a game. To be in it until the end is what makes it so painful. Had we turned the ball over 6 times and lost 35-10 it wouldn't have been as bad. But this was just painful.

The play calling was fine except for a few plays that should have been runs and not passes in that final few minutes.

You can't pin this loss on Billick....6 turnovers guys....SIX!

That is your game.

Now, Billick should have run the ball more at the end...I totally agree and that is on him but we didn't lose this game because of Billick.

[NewMarketSean]

The play calling was fine except for a few plays that should have been runs and not passes in that final few minutes.

You can't pin this loss on Billick....6 turnovers guys....SIX!

That is your game.

Now, Billick should have run the ball more at the end...I totally agree and that is on him but we didn't lose this game because of Billick.

I agree. The 6 TO's were horrible. But we still had a chance to put the game into overtime so at that point, the 5 TO's were moot. You've got to run the ball there. It is inexcusable.

[Sports Guy]

I agree. The 6 TO's were horrible. But we still had a chance to put the game into overtime so at that point, the 5 TO's were moot. You've got to run the ball there. It is inexcusable.

Yes you do have to run it some...But you do have to pass it a few times.....On the fourth and short, i felt they should have given it to a fullback.

But, even without this, Heap did score a TD and he did drop another one...It should have worked.

Now, that being said, we should have run more...I am not disagreeing with that. But to pin the loss solely on Billick is just wrong...If we turn the ball over just 3 times last night, which is still bad, we win that game by at least 10 points IMO.

We just weren't destined to win that game...I mean, look at the 2 Cinci INTs...They were identical...Big lineman picking the ball off of the grass? Are you kidding me? When do you see that once, much less twice in a game?

[tuOsfan]

I agree with pretty much everything you say here Tony. McNair looked done. I hope Boller is our starting quarterback next week, but I doubt it.

For the love of God, if Boller is our starting QB you can just punt the entire season.

[Hank Scorpio]

What's your point? Is it that Billick made some good play calls during the game? Well, I would hope a professional play-caller would do that occasionally throughout a game. What I don't expect is for the guy to completely abandoned the run in three separate crucial times in the game by calling low percentage pass plays instead of running.

Sorry, not even you can take up for Billick this time. He choked, pure and simple. Combined with McNair poor performance througout the game, it cost us a game we should have won.

Should have won in the sense that Cincinnati played an extremely sloppy game, maybe. The fact that we had a chance to tie was a complete miracle.

That's a divisional road game (which we also lost last year, by the way) with a rookie at right tackle, your defensive leader and quarterback injured, and your running back still not 100% clear on the playbook.

If anything, I'm extremely encouraged by the resiliance of the team. When you're that close to overcoming THAT much adversity, you have a lot of cahones.

I'm definitely not enamored with the playcalling. There's no excuse for not sacking up and punching them in the mouth from the 2 yard line. There's also no excuse for fumbling a stretch play.

[NewMarketSean]

Yes you do have to run it some...But you do have to pass it a few times.....On the fourth and short, i felt they should have given it to a fullback.

But, even without this, Heap did score a TD and he did drop another one...It should have worked.

Now, that being said, we should have run more...I am not disagreeing with that. But to pin the loss solely on Billick is just wrong...If we turn the ball over just 3 times last night, which is still bad, we win that game by at least 10 points IMO.

We just weren't destined to win that game...I mean, look at the 2 Cinci INTs...They were identical...Big lineman picking the ball off of the grass? Are you kidding me? When do you see that once, much less twice in a game?

I think you are missing my point. Yes the TO's were bad, especially the 3 fumbles to begin the game, but when you can get over those TO's and have a chance to win the game, it almost makes them meaningless. Maybe we would have won big had we not committed 4 or even 5 of those TO's, but we'll never know. We still had a chance to tie the game and possibly win and we blew it because Billick decided to pass, which like someone else said, opens up the possibility for anything to happen so close to the goalline. Yes, it should have worked but it didn't. Don't use Orioles homer logic in here. Billick should have pounded the ball in there like he has always done since he was the coach here. Why did he take that time to change his entire philosophy of goalline offense?

[Hank Scorpio]

For the love of God, if Boller is our starting QB you can just punt the entire season.

This isn't 2005.

[NewMarketSean]

For the love of God, if Boller is our starting QB you can just punt the entire season.

Yeah because we don't need a mobile QB who has a rocket arm. :rolleyes:

[Mackus]

For the love of God, if Boller is our starting QB you can just punt the entire season.I disagree completely. Boller is a superior quarterback to McNair at this point, and certainly capable of leading a playoff team, especially one that is more reliant on the ground game and defense than the QB.

He is, IMO, undoubtedly a better option than McNair. But there is little chance Billick will go with Boller over McNair at this point barring injury. I'm hoping for injury, actually, because I don't want McNair to lose us any more games. He's pretty much cost us our last two games single-handedly.

He's basically the Danys Baez of the Ravens.

[tuOsfan]

We would not have made the playoffs last year if Boller was our QB.

[NewMarketSean]

We would not have made the playoffs last year if Boller was our QB.

I strongly disagree.

[Hank Scorpio]

We would not have made the playoffs last year if Boller was our QB.

You could be right about that... Boller ended the season a much different quarterback than he was when he started it, most because of Steve McNair.

You are completely discounting the maturation process of an NFL quarterback.

[Sports Guy]

We would not have made the playoffs last year if Boller was our QB.

I love statements like these...There is no proof behind them whatsoever.

I say we win the SB with Boller as the QB. Anyone else want to throw out something?

BTW, did you hear them talking about Boller last night? How the locker room really has a lot of respect for him now....All that he has been through, all the negativity and he is still here, saying all of the right things and doing as he is asked.....Mason in particular had nice things to say.

[ChrisAF79]

I have a difficult time shouldering the blame on Billick for this one. The play-calling should have worked. The phantom offensive pass interference call took points off the board. And the interception on that last pass came down strictly to execution. Heap was open, Boller might have thrown it too hard, but it was certainly catchable. Bottom line, the play-call worked! Boller and/or Heap simply didn't execute.

[ccbird]

I disagree completely. Boller is a superior quarterback to McNair at this point, and certainly capable of leading a playoff team, especially one that is more reliant on the ground game and defense than the QB.

He is, IMO, undoubtedly a better option than McNair. But there is little chance Billick will go with Boller over McNair at this point barring injury. I'm hoping for injury, actually, because I don't want McNair to lose us any more games. He's pretty much cost us our last two games single-handedly.

He's basically the Danys Baez of the Ravens.

:rolleyes: Excellant. Baltimore fans wishing for their starting QB to get injured. What a shock.

McNair played a bad game and I'm growing more concerned with his play. I'm not going to turn this in to another Boller debate so I'll just leave it at for the time being I still believe McNair gives us a better chance to win.

[Mackus]

:rolleyes: Excellant. Baltimore fans wishing for their starting QB to get injured. What a shock.

McNair played a bad game and I'm growing more concerned with his play. I'm not going to turn this in to another Boller debate so I'll just leave it at for the time being I still believe McNair gives us a better chance to win.I'm not wishing ill against him, I'm just hoping he won't play.

Boller gives us a better chance to win, IMO, and its not really close. McNair is done as an effective QB in this league.

[NewMarketSean]

I'm not wishing ill against him, I'm just hoping he won't play.

Boller gives us a better chance to win, IMO, and its not really close. McNair is done as an effective QB in this league.

It definitely won't be the popular opinion on this board but I have to agree with you.

[Tank]

I'm not wishing ill against him, I'm just hoping he won't play.

Boller gives us a better chance to win, IMO, and its not really close. McNair is done as an effective QB in this league.

I also agree with you.

[The Wedge]

Thirded. His play is indicitve of over compensation for diminished skills.

[Bosibus]

I would like to have a 100% healty Kyle Boller than a 25% healthy Steve McNair.

[ccbird]

Lets not forget McNair did something to his groin area last night and it certainly had an effect on how he was throwing the ball and it limited his mobility. Besides the overthrow of Mason on the 3rd and 1 that resulted in a int and the overthrow of Williams on the sideline later in the 4th right before he took himself out I don't think he threw the ball that bad. The 1st fumble was miscommunication between himself and McGahee and the 2nd it looked like just slipped out of his hand in the rain.


If he isn't 100% this week let him rest and start Boller but to want to throw the guy with the proven track record under the bus for the guy with the not so proven track record after one week is laughable. Jeez, even the Boller bashers gave Kyle longer than 1st game into the season before they called for his blood.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I think this might BE the popular opinion around here (and it's not too often I happen to be on that side...:p)

[PaulFolk]

Now, admittedly, I'm no Ravens expert. But it seems to me that Kyle Boller is basically the Daniel Cabrera of the Ravens. People see glimpses of potential and fawn over him, overlooking the fact that he's been in the league for (5? 6?) seasons and has shown little or no ability to get the job done as a starting QB.

It seems like the majority of Ravens fans couldn't wait to find a replacement for Boller a couple years ago. Now people are begging for his return, expecting the results to be different. It's befuddling. I'm befuddled.

[Dr. FLK]

I'm not wishing ill against him, I'm just hoping he won't play.

Boller gives us a better chance to win, IMO, and its not really close. McNair is done as an effective QB in this league.

Isn't wishing injury on him "wishing ill against him"?

[The Wedge]

Lets not forget McNair did something to his groin area last night and it certainly had an effect on how he was throwing the ball and it limited his mobility. Besides the overthrow of Mason on the 3rd and 1 that resulted in a int and the overthrow of Williams on the sideline later in the 4th right before he took himself out I don't think he threw the ball that bad. The 1st fumble was miscommunication between himself and McGahee and the 2nd it looked like just slipped out of his hand in the rain.


If he isn't 100% this week let him rest and start Boller but to want to throw the guy with the proven track record under the bus for the guy with the not so proven track record after one week is laughable. Jeez, even the Boller bashers gave Kyle longer than 1st game into the season before they called for his blood.

If he was generally erratic, I'd say "it's due to the injury." But I don't see how a groin injury would cause him to OVER throw that much.

[Bosibus]

If he was generally erratic, I'd say "it's due to the injury." But I don't see how a groin injury would cause him to OVER throw that much.

By not letting him plant his feet. He was throwing off one leg the whole game.

[NewMarketSean]

Now, admittedly, I'm no Ravens expert. But it seems to me that Kyle Boller is basically the Daniel Cabrera of the Ravens. People see glimpses of potential and fawn over him, overlooking the fact that he's been in the league for (5? 6?) seasons and has shown little or no ability to get the job done as a starting QB.

It seems like the majority of Ravens fans couldn't wait to find a replacement for Boller a couple years ago. Now people are begging for his return, expecting the results to be different. It's befuddling. I'm befuddled.

Unlike Cabrera, Boller has shown some improvement. And even if Boller is Cabrera, I'd still take Cabrera over Jose Lima or some other old veteran clinging on to a few more years in the league.

Boller may not be a perfect QB but he is more suited to do what Billick wants to do, and that is open up the passing game. Yes he'll make mistakes, but like we saw yesterday, the Ravens defense will be able to keep the impact from any mistakes to a minimum.

You'd have to be blind to see that McNair is close to being washed up and not a good fit.

I'm not saying bench McNair quite yet, but it might have to happen at some point over the course of the season.

[The Wedge]

By not letting him plant his feet. He was throwing off one leg the whole game.

Looked like he could plant well enough to be level. But I can understand that line of thinking. He did float quite a few up and besides no accuracy, floating seems to be a pretty noticeable side effect of tossing off the back foot.

[Miller192]

I love statements like these...There is no proof behind them whatsoever.

I say we win the SB with Boller as the QB. Anyone else want to throw out something?

BTW, did you hear them talking about Boller last night? How the locker room really has a lot of respect for him now....All that he has been through, all the negativity and he is still here, saying all of the right things and doing as he is asked.....Mason in particular had nice things to say.

I don't know how people make assumptions like this. What has Boller done in his career that shows that he is nothing more than a back-up QB? I'm not even sure he has proven that, outside of knowing the playbook.

I really don't think it matters much who the QB is in this offense. McNair may have lost some arm strength and mobility, but he is a much better option at this point.

We went 13-3 last year without a running game and an O-line that didn't come together until week 7 last year.

I think some guys need to step away from the ledge a little...

[NewMarketSean]

I don't know how people make assumptions like this. What has Boller done in his career that shows that he is nothing more than a back-up QB? I'm not even sure he has proven that, outside of knowing the playbook.

I really don't think it matters much who the QB is in this offense. McNair may have lost some arm strength and mobility, but he is a much better option at this point.

We went 13-3 last year without a running game and an O-line that didn't come together until week 7 last year.

I think some guys need to step away from the ledge a little...

You missed the point. Someone said that we wouldn't have gone to the playoffs last year with Boller as the starter. Total opinion with no facts or stats to back up that claim.

SG responded with his opinion. Whether he believes it or not is unknown.

[Bosibus]

Looked like he could plant well enough to be level. But I can understand that line of thinking. He did float quite a few up and besides no accuracy, floating seems to be a pretty noticeable side effect of tossing off the back foot.

Watch on the last interception, he did not even step forward to put some effort into his stride. Being that he threw a rainbow pass instead of a beaner which was then picked off. It is like watching me throw a softball in from right field and it goes about 100 feet into the air and then watching the someone else do it and they one hop home plate. Thank god I can pitch!

[Miller192]

You missed the point. Someone said that we wouldn't have gone to the playoffs last year with Boller as the starter. Total opinion with no facts or stats to back up that claim.

SG responded with his opinion. Whether he believes it or not is unknown.

Thanks for clearing it up, I was late to the game.

[Sports Guy]

I wonder what people would be saying if we ran the ball 6 times and passed once and didn't get in?

I would be willing to bet that many of the same people complaining about Billick about not running would be complaining that he didn't pass it enough.

[NewMarketSean]

I wonder what people would be saying if we ran the ball 6 times and passed once and didn't get in?

I would be willing to bet that many of the same people complaining about Billick about not running would be complaining that he didn't pass it enough.

Not me. You've got to pound the ball in that situation. Passing into the endzone allows too much room for error as we saw.

[66-70-83-??]

Unlike Cabrera, Boller has shown some improvement. And even if Boller is Cabrera, I'd still take Cabrera over Jose Lima or some other old veteran clinging on to a few more years in the league.

Boller may not be a perfect QB but he is more suited to do what Billick wants to do, and that is open up the passing game. Yes he'll make mistakes, but like we saw yesterday, the Ravens defense will be able to keep the impact from any mistakes to a minimum.

You'd have to be blind to see that McNair is close to being washed up and not a good fit.

I'm not saying bench McNair quite yet, but it might have to happen at some point over the course of the season.

I agree and would like to add some more thoughts about Boller.....

Looking back with hindsight, it appears Boller was set up for failure from the day one. He was thrown to the wolves as the starting QB with different QB coach and Offensive Coordinators each year, no WR's, etc......

Now that he is finally recieving the tutoring from a veteran that virtually all successful NFL QB's get- I believe it will pay off.

I see him as a potential Vinny Testeverde or Brett Favre type: His rocket arm and gunslinger mentality will make spectacular plays but also his share of mistakes. Could we do better ? Possibly. Could be have a worse QB than Boller ? Absolutely.

He does have a strong arm, good mobility, and CHARACTER that few QB's have. Most guys would have packed it in by now and thrown some coaches/teammates under the bus.

I hope he earns a ring somewhere. He deserves it.

[NewMarketSean]

I agree and would like to add some more thoughts about Boller.....

Looking back with hindsight, it appears Boller was set up for failure from the day one. He was thrown to the wolves as the starting QB with different QB coach and Offensive Coordinators each year, no WR's, etc......

People have been saying this from day one and amazingly, some people expected HoF numbers from the start and liked to chime in with their expert opinion on how a QB should look while throwing the ball. My favorite is the shot put comments. As long as he can throw the ball and be accurate, what does it matter?

Bottom line is that Boller did have a lot stacked against him from the start and Billick was wrong to throw him to the wolves. Billick, like we saw last night, is like a kid with a new toy sometimes. He doesn't want to share and he plays too rough with it and then it breaks.


Now that he is finally recieving the tutoring from a veteran that virtually all successful NFL QB's get- I believe it will pay off.

I see him as a potential Vinny Testeverde or Brett Favre type: His rocket arm and gunslinger mentality will make spectacular plays but also his share of mistakes. Could we do better ? Possibly. Could be have a worse QB than Boller ? Absolutely.

He does have a strong arm, good mobility, and CHARACTER that few QB's have. Most guys would have packed it in by now and thrown some coaches/teammates under the bus.

I hope he earns a ring somewhere. He deserves it.

I agree. I think he needs to calm down a bit under pressure, but we've seen that start to happen a bit. Short of a solid OL, he's got the weapons to be a 20-25 TD guy. He just has to limit mistakes.

Normally don't cheer for players after they leave my team but if Boller does leave I will follow his career as closely as if he was still on the Ravens.

[tywright]

At least the offense wasn't vanilla..haha

[ccbird]

Tony, many, many times throughout the past couple years, many people have criticized Billick saying that once he gets a lead, he sits on it and becomes too conservative, instead of trying to get the knock out blow...This was said alot after the Cincy game at home last year.

Yesterday, up by one against Cincy with 9 minutes left, we pretty much needed at least a fg. The play was designed perfectly and we had the opportunity to move the ball down the field 20+ yards. Whether or not the players executed the play shouldnt' determine whether it was a good play call. If McNair hits the open receiver like he should, (and i do mean open) Billick gets praise instead of criticism. So what if McGahee gets the first down but we have to punt the ball to them with 6 minutes left? We were going to try to score and make Cincy get at least a TD to win...Nothing wrong with that IMO.

I loved the call of Play action on that 3rd and 1 play. Great call, Mason was wide open and a good throw has us on the 50 and at worse a chance to run more time off the clock and pin them deep in their zone.

However, the playcalling on the last 2 series was pathetic. With a new QB just in the game and the already shown ability of the OLine and Mcgahee to push the pile and get tough yards there is no excuse to run it only 1 out of 5 times from the 2 yard line and in. 5 freaking attempts inside the 2 and we ran it once, the 1st series on 3rd down which got us inside the 1 yrd line. That was worse then anything Cavs or Fossel ever did as OC.

[Elbren]

Now, admittedly, I'm no Ravens expert. But it seems to me that Kyle Boller is basically the Daniel Cabrera of the Ravens. People see glimpses of potential and fawn over him, overlooking the fact that he's been in the league for (5? 6?) seasons and has shown little or no ability to get the job done as a starting QB.

It seems like the majority of Ravens fans couldn't wait to find a replacement for Boller a couple years ago. Now people are begging for his return, expecting the results to be different. It's befuddling. I'm befuddled.This is what I don't understand. This town blew up when we picked up McNair .. you would've thought we just traded for Jesus himself. Suddenly, a year later, he's 20 years past his prime and you wanna go back to the guy who you couldn't wait to get rid of in the first place? He's suddenly fixed all of this problems because he spent all of 16 games holding a clipboard?? :confused:

What has Boller ever done in this town??

First, it was that he didn't have the recievers, so they drafted Clayton and signed Mason. Supposedly, it was the lines fault because they were built around the run and couldn't pass protect, so they changed that. What else is there to change on this offense that might actually make Kyle Boller good?? McNair basically took the same offense that Boller had and took this team to a 13-3 record. And that was WITH an almost useless Jamal Lewis. Hell, a 2nd stringer like Anthony Wright did more with this offense than Boller.

I know the backup QB is always the most popular guy in town, but come on ... this isn't the "new kid in town". He's been here since 2003. What else could he possibly have that we haven't seen yet?

[BaltimoreTerp]

This is what I don't understand. This town blew up when we picked up McNair .. you would've thought we just traded for Jesus himself. Suddenly, a year later, he's 20 years past his prime and you wanna go back to the guy who you couldn't wait to get rid of in the first place? He's suddenly fixed all of this problems because he spent all of 16 games holding a clipboard?? :confused:

What has Boller ever done in this town??

First, it was that he didn't have the recievers, so they drafted Clayton and signed Mason. Supposedly, it was the lines fault because they were built around the run and couldn't pass protect, so they changed that. What else is there to change on this offense that might actually make Kyle Boller good?? McNair basically took the same offense that Boller had and took this team to a 13-3 record. And that was WITH an almost useless Jamal Lewis. Hell, a 2nd stringer like Anthony Wright did more with this offense than Boller.

I know the backup QB is always the most popular guy in town, but come on ... this isn't the "new kid in town". He's been here since 2003. What else could he possibly have that we haven't seen yet?

Did you watch the Ravens last year, when McNair was up and down and Boller did very well in the times he played, or last night?

Saying "what else could he possibly have that we haven't seen yet" is like looking at a baseball player who has all the tools and put up the numbers in the minors, yet struggled for a couple years when he reached the majors. Then you bring in a veteran to take the spot, that guy struggles, the young guy plays well in pinch-hitting spots and utility work, and you have to ask yourself whether to keep going with the guy who is definitely not going to get it done, or the guy who might have finally caught up to his talent.

You are making one very poor assumption in this post: that a player will not improve as they gain experience, and therefore that a year spent watching the game couldn't have helped Boller catch up with the physical tools that blow McNair off of the field at this point.

[Hank Scorpio]

This is what I don't understand. This town blew up when we picked up McNair .. you would've thought we just traded for Jesus himself. Suddenly, a year later, he's 20 years past his prime and you wanna go back to the guy who you couldn't wait to get rid of in the first place? He's suddenly fixed all of this problems because he spent all of 16 games holding a clipboard?? :confused:

What has Boller ever done in this town??

First, it was that he didn't have the recievers, so they drafted Clayton and signed Mason. Supposedly, it was the lines fault because they were built around the run and couldn't pass protect, so they changed that. What else is there to change on this offense that might actually make Kyle Boller good?? McNair basically took the same offense that Boller had and took this team to a 13-3 record. And that was WITH an almost useless Jamal Lewis. Hell, a 2nd stringer like Anthony Wright did more with this offense than Boller.

I know the backup QB is always the most popular guy in town, but come on ... this isn't the "new kid in town". He's been here since 2003. What else could he possibly have that we haven't seen yet?

No, no... he's the guy YOU wanted to get rid of in the first place. I wanted to give Boller a chance to learn something in a manner other than getting his face pounded through the back of his head.

Do you not believe that there is something to be said about a player improving? There are a billion examples in professional sports of guys who took 3 or 4 years to "get it."

To write Boller off forever based on what you saw from him his first two years in the NFL is specious reasoning at best.

[PaulFolk]

Did you watch the Ravens last year, when McNair was up and down and Boller did very well in the times he played, or last night?

Saying "what else could he possibly have that we haven't seen yet" is like looking at a baseball player who has all the tools and put up the numbers in the minors, yet struggled for a couple years when he reached the majors. Then you bring in a veteran to take the spot, that guy struggles, the young guy plays well in pinch-hitting spots and utility work, and you have to ask yourself whether to keep going with the guy who is definitely not going to get it done, or the guy who might have finally caught up to his talent.

You are making one very poor assumption in this post: that a player will not improve as they gain experience, and therefore that a year spent watching the game couldn't have helped Boller catch up with the physical tools that blow McNair off of the field at this point.
I think this post makes a poor assumption as well: that McNair is "definitely not going to get it done." It's too early to be making that claim after all of one game has been played.

I just don't get the Boller fascination. People were cursing his name to the high heavens for years, declaring him a bum and even cheering when he got hurt. Now people see him as the answer because he lately hasn't been as bad as he used to be. Doesn't make sense to me, but again, I'm no expert.

[Sports Guy]

I think this post makes a poor assumption as well: that McNair is "definitely not going to get it done." It's too early to be making that claim after all of one game has been played.
I just don't get the Boller fascination. People were cursing his name to the high heavens for years, declaring him a bum and even cheering when he got hurt. Now people see him as the answer because he lately hasn't been as bad as he used to be. Doesn't make sense to me, but again, I'm no expert.
Yes it is...Good chance McNair was throwing off last night because of the groin injury.

However, McNair has been struggling in his last few starts and he is old and has taken a beating in his career.....He could be done or he could be fine.

A lot of his throws hadc some good zip on them last night i thought and he was throwing downfield more.

He wasn't very moblie last night either even before the groin injury.

I do think the offense could be better under Boller but i think you have to see what a healthy McNair can do first.

And Paul, many of us weren't the ones cursing Boller...This city as a whole has though.

[markakis4pres]

Yes it is...Good chance McNair was throwing off last night because of the groin injury.

However, McNair has been struggling in his last few starts and he is old and has taken a beating in his career.....He could be done or he could be fine.

A lot of his throws hadc some good zip on them last night i thought and he was throwing downfield more.

He wasn't very moblie last night either even before the groin injury.

I do think the offense could be better under Boller but i think you have to see what a healthy McNair can do first.

And Paul, many of us weren't the ones cursing Boller...This city as a whole has though.

You could tell he was injured. All his throws were high because he really couldnt get a push.

Give him time to rest there is no reason to rush him because its early in the season.

[tywright]

There's an indication that McNair was hurt prior to the game. Troy Smith was active as the 3rd QB, which is odd considering the Ravens NEVER activate a 3rd QB. Mark Clayton is our emergency QB.

[Sports Guy]

There's an indication that McNair was hurt prior to the game. Troy Smith was active as the 3rd QB, which is odd considering the Ravens NEVER activate a 3rd QB. Mark Clayton is our emergency QB.


The eight Ravens inactives are: kickoff specialist Rhys Lloyd, quarterback Troy Smith, returner Yamon Figurs, cornerback Ronnie Prude, running back Mike Anderson and linebackers Antwan Barnes, Prescott Burgess and Edgar Jones.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/

[tywright]

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/

No wonder... when I heard this on the radio I thought it was wrong. Didn't even check the inactives

[snatch311]

I think this post makes a poor assumption as well: that McNair is "definitely not going to get it done." It's too early to be making that claim after all of one game has been played.

I just don't get the Boller fascination. People were cursing his name to the high heavens for years, declaring him a bum and even cheering when he got hurt. Now people see him as the answer because he lately hasn't been as bad as he used to be. Doesn't make sense to me, but again, I'm no expert.

A percentage of us have stuck with Boller (just about) the whole time. Ha, I just tracked down a post from October of last year...


All I'm saying is that McNair has been just as bad, if not worse than Boller. I think it's obvious at this point that all the people who thought that McNair was going to be some kind of savior missed the point. There are problems all over the offense that prevent success. When McNair looks as good at any point as Boller did at the end of last year, let me know.

Oh, and just for your information. I don't even live in Baltimore, but I make a trip to the sports bar on every single sunday so that I can watch every single Ravens game. I have done so for the last 3 years, and before that I had Sunday Ticket. McNair would finish 20th in the 14 year old division of Punt/Pass/Kick.

[Tony-OH]

Tony, many, many times throughout the past couple years, many people have criticized Billick saying that once he gets a lead, he sits on it and becomes too conservative, instead of trying to get the knock out blow...This was said alot after the Cincy game at home last year.

Yesterday, up by one against Cincy with 9 minutes left, we pretty much needed at least a fg. The play was designed perfectly and we had the opportunity to move the ball down the field 20+ yards. Whether or not the players executed the play shouldnt' determine whether it was a good play call. If McNair hits the open receiver like he should, (and i do mean open) Billick gets praise instead of criticism. So what if McGahee gets the first down but we have to punt the ball to them with 6 minutes left? We were going to try to score and make Cincy get at least a TD to win...Nothing wrong with that IMO.

3rd and one, up by one, with a defense that has been pretty darn good in the second half you run the damn ball. Pure and simple. No excuse for "going for the throat " or any other bullcrap some excuse spinner can come up with.

The job of a play caller is to put his players in the best postion to execute successfully. You don't call a 20 yeard pass on 3rd and one late in a game and then say, "Well, the players didn't execute".

Had McGahee been stopped short of the one yard, then you say then players didn't execute.

The calls late in the game were inexcusable. First, as much as Boller has improved overall, he's still not a good red zone QB. We had 1st and goal on the 4, 3rd and goal on the one, and Billck is calling pass plays? Just too many things can go wrong on a pass play.

If your new $40 million running back can't get the ball in the end zone on these situations then you wasted your money. If he had tried and failed, I would not be questioning Billick at all. He could have ran a sneak, an I-formation 2-2 or 2-3, a toss outside, a QB keeper (bootleg). It's not like he had to just smash it up the middle.

Billick's play calling blunders in the fourth quarter contributed to this loss. McNair was obviously another huge part.

It's a game we could have and should have won despite the fact that most everything (six turnovers, multiple penalties, injuries, bad reffing) went against us.

Will it haunt us? Only time will tell. But I hope Billick learned from his mistakes. I'm all for opening up the play book at times, but the times he choose in the fourth quarter were careless at best.

[Tony-OH]

I think this post makes a poor assumption as well: that McNair is "definitely not going to get it done." It's too early to be making that claim after all of one game has been played.
I just don't get the Boller fascination. People were cursing his name to the high heavens for years, declaring him a bum and even cheering when he got hurt. Now people see him as the answer because he lately hasn't been as bad as he used to be. Doesn't make sense to me, but again, I'm no expert.

The problem here Paul is it's not just one game. If it was, I would be in total agreement. People, including myself, were happy to see McNair come in because we were so tired of watching Boller. Last season though, what we saw from McNair was a guy who besides some great drives late in games, struggled in over half of his games last season. Then he basically single-handedly lost us the Colts game in the playoffs.

Add this into the fact that he never showed the arm strength or accuracy to throw the long ball or deep out routes, and we suddenly had an experienced, yet limited quarterback. As for Boller, in the times he came in last season he showed some improvements in his overall game. He's always had the tools, it's just he was never ready to be thrown to the wolves right away, and I personally think it hurt his development.

Now, fast forward to this year and we have a presseason in which McNair does not look good (besides the opening drive) and everytime a fan sees a highlight it's with Boller throwing long TD passes. Now I know preseason doesn't really mean much, and that Boller was playing mostly against backups, but Boller certainly looked to be the better QB for the wider open offense than McNair in preseason.

Now opening day hits and McNair fumbles twice, constantly over throws receivers with floaters and shows almost no real arm strength. We also have to remember there was a reason why the Titans did not want him anymore, and that was because they thought he had lost too much arm strength to be effective anymore.

I have seen nothing from McNair that would prove otherwise. Arm Strength really becomes a facotr on the deep and middle out routes and of course deep routes. Corners don't have to worry about the deep routes so they cover closely and wait for the break. This is why so many of our passes are either broken up or the defender is hitting the receiver at the very point the ball arrives.

With Boller, teams will have to respect the long ball and deep out patterns because he certainly has the arm strength to make those throws. Now does he have the consistent accuracy to make those throws and has he learned enough about reading defenses and hitting the hot routes when he's blitzed, I don't know?

What I do know is that the Ravens are not going to the Super Bowl with McNair or even deep into the playoffs unless the defense just plays shutdown football and McGahee becomes a 1500 yard rusher this year.

[NewMarketSean]

It's got to be bad when Tony is lobbying for Boller to start.

[Sports Guy]

BTW, anyone who has watched the Ravens over the years shouldn't be surprised that we went downfield on 3rd and 1...They have been doing that for years.

[Sunner]

I think we're going to be saying that a lot this season. As in, we were McBillicked.

Yes, the Ravens got ripped on the phantom offensive pass interearence on Hep, and yes the Ravens shouldn't have even been in the game due to the ridiculous amount of turnovers, but Brian Billick's play callling in the fourth quarter was atrocious.

His ridiculous 15-year pass play on 3rd and one when the team had all the momentum set the tone for the rest of the game. Add that to the ridiculous pass calls on the goal line and he basically told McGahee and his young line that he has no faith in them whatsoever.

I'm not sure whether Billck was trying to make a point or what with his play calling, but the only point he made was that he chokes under the pressure of making what should be pretty generic calls late in games.

McNair of course was pressure all game pretty much but even when he wasn't his floaters were either off target or got there too late. I had my doubts last season that were cemented in the Colts loss and reaffirmed tonight, and that's McNair does not have the arm strength or mobility to be an effective quarterback at this level anymore. Father time has caught up to him and unfortunately we will waste another year with a gret defense as Billick will keep going with McNair unless he gets hurt.

The Ravens defense was pretty outstanding most of the night with Reed having ahuge game and Ray toughing out an obvious tricep injury (let's hope this doesn't keep him out). Losing Ogden hurt but I wasn't counting on him anywhere because he hadn't practiced much and it's apparent this toe inury may be the end to his great career.

Turnovers, penalties, and poor play calling with a mix of bad reffing in key times and we still only lost by seven. That's the only thing that keeps me from being too down.....

I have heard this all week on the radio. If they had run the ball a couple time were stopped and ran out of time, it would have been why didn't he throw. You have a young mixed up line out there you have no idea what they will do. You cannot do much more then score and the guy in the chest again in the endzone.

[NewMarketSean]

I have heard this all week on the radio. If they had run the ball a couple time were stopped and ran out of time, it would have been why didn't he throw. You have a young mixed up line out there you have no idea what they will do. You cannot do much more then score and the guy in the chest again in the endzone.

I don't get that argument because you run when you are that close. It's a no-brainer in pop-warner football.

[Elbren]

I don't get that argument because you run when you are that close. It's a no-brainer in pop-warner football.

Definitely. Especially when you've had problems establishing the pass all night and you've proven all night that you can run on this team.