The Official Transit and Urban Development Thread

[rolliefingers]

The bureaucratic cluster&^%$ known at MTA Maryland strikes again!

http://www.examiner.com/a-1423780~MTA_s_missed_deadline_could_derail_Red_Lin e.html

[NewMarketSean]

The bureaucratic cluster&^%$ known at MTA Maryland strikes again!

http://www.examiner.com/a-1423780~MTA_s_missed_deadline_could_derail_Red_Lin e.html

Yeah sounds like a real mess.

I like the idea of the free bus system though. I'd really like to be able to take the LR downtown and still be able to get around the city. Sounds like this would make that a little easier.

[Crazysilver03]

What is this gondola that everyone is talking about?

Thanks for an explanation.

[NewMarketSean]

http://www.examiner.com/a-1512539~Baltimore_area_officials_to_invest_in_mass _transit.html

Somehow I don't believe we'll ever see any changes.

Also just found this (http://greatergreaterwashington.org/image.cgi?src=200802/multimodal2blarge.png&ref=644)... and it brings a tear to my eye.

[NewMarketSean]

What does this (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-te.md.redline10dec10,0,5791629.story) mean for the Red Line? Could it get things going? What is the next step?

[TGO]

What does this (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-te.md.redline10dec10,0,5791629.story) mean for the Red Line? Could it get things going? What is the next step?

This quote is hilarious to me:


Dixon said yesterday that the Red Line, which could open as early as 2012 if the project can avoid snags, is crucial to the region's economic future. "We have no comprehensive transportation system in this city," she said "We have to get away from relying on cars."

As if one more line that they probably will fail to properly connect to anything will give them a comprehensive transportation system.

At this point I think the line will get done in some form. The right people have gotten behind it (read: developers), and the "infrastructure bailout fund" that is supposed to be a priority will make the federal money available. The question is can we do better with the money than what is planned, and the answer is yes.

[NewMarketSean]

You also gotta love the people from the west side saying that the Red Line is "racial" because the line will run at grade in poorer neighborhoods while being tunneled under much of Fells Pt. I guess those people don't like common sense -- or being able to get around the city more freely.

[Birds of B'more]

You also gotta love the people from the west side saying that the Red Line is "racial" because the line will run at grade in poorer neighborhoods while being tunneled under much of Fells Pt. I guess those people don't like common sense -- or being able to get around the city more freely.

I'm sure many of them are still angry over the infamous "Highway to Nowhere" built back in the 70's when they tried to extend I-70 to link up with I-95 near Carroll Park. Community groups fought and stopped the extension that would have run through Leakin Park, but they still built the 1.5 mile spur that was to take drivers from the extended I-70 into downtown. They displaced a lot of families to build it and all we were left with is a big, long concrete trench in West Baltimore.

[blueberryale77]

I'm sure many of them are still angry over the infamous "Highway to Nowhere" built back in the 70's when they tried to extend I-70 to link up with I-95 near Carroll Park. Community groups fought and stopped the extension that would have run through Leakin Park, but they still built the 1.5 mile spur that was to take drivers from the extended I-70 into downtown. They displaced a lot of families to build it and all we were left with is a big, long concrete trench in West Baltimore.

A lot of this has to do with the urban planning community's failure to make connections and explain things well enough to low income and minority communities. For all our efforts in that arena, we are hamstrung by a mistrust of and lack of interest in our profession among inner city youth. We need to do a better job of mentoring kids in the cities so that planners can become a more diverse group and shed the perception/quasi-reality that we are all a bunch of white kids from the suburbs.

The fact is that a lot of planning has gone into how they would use the at-grade red line to stimulate business growth through Edmondson Village and surrounding neighborhoods, which happened to be thriving back when a trolley ran down the same route and deteriorated when Edmondson Avenue became strictly a high-speed commuter route for cars between downtown and the suburbs. In many ways, light rail running down route 40, which would slow down the traffic by reducing lanes, take some of it away by putting those people on the train, and potentially even bring new customers into the neighborhood by causing suburbanites who ride through daily to see the neighborhood in a different, less scary light, would be a partial return to the "good old days" for their community. But there's a lot of past mistrust to overcome and obviously the city, MTA, etc. are not communicating their plan effectively despite their best intentions.

[Enjoy Terror]

Baltimore needs a subway that runs east-west connecting Canton, Fells Point, Harbor East and then under the water of the harbor to hit the Science Center, Federal Hill and finally Ravens Stadium. You can bet Baltimore would be a whole lot nicer to live in if people could commute to work more easily, could get around and visit the night life easier, and traffic would be a better situation, less parking garages, less time spending a half hour trying to find street parking on a Friday night. It's ridiculous that a city like Baltimore only has the one subway that runs from Hopkins to Mount Vernon. It's always empty.

[NewMarketSean]

Baltimore needs a subway that runs east-west connecting Canton, Fells Point, Harbor East and then under the water of the harbor to hit the Science Center, Federal Hill and finally Ravens Stadium. You can bet Baltimore would be a whole lot nicer to live in if people could commute to work more easily, could get around and visit the night life easier, and traffic would be a better situation, less parking garages, less time spending a half hour trying to find street parking on a Friday night. It's ridiculous that a city like Baltimore only has the one subway that runs from Hopkins to Mount Vernon. It's always empty.

That would be a very expensive subway to go all underground. Plus it would also be hitting some places that are already covered by the LR. The Red Line would likely be a LR and hopefully would have to deal with a lot less traffic lights than the current LR, which stops at pretty much every light from Camden Yards to UB. A ride that should take 5 mins on a real subway takes nearly 20 mins to get through the downtown area. Pathetic.

Basically, what Baltimore natives and the people in charge need to accept is that B-more will never have a comprehensive mass transit system like NYC or DC. But they can improve what they have and make it work better for the people who use it. That list is too long for this post.

Adding the Red Line will improve things ten-fold. But even then that leaves eastern Balt. Co without a way to get downtown on a mass transit system. Meanwhile, if the Red Line is completed, western Balt. Co will have 3 ways to get downtown (metro, LR, and Red Line).

[TGO]

I have heard that the City and MTA at least partially fixed the signalling problem on the light rail, so the trip on Howard Street is now quicker. However, they're running a pathetic number of cars on the line due to maintenance issues.

[NewMarketSean]

I have heard that the City and MTA at least partially fixed the signalling problem on the light rail, so the trip on Howard Street is now quicker. However, they're running a pathetic number of cars on the line due to maintenance issues.

How long has this been going on... a couple months? What a joke.

[Enjoy Terror]

That would be a very expensive subway to go all underground. Plus it would also be hitting some places that are already covered by the LR.

Um... no? The light rail passes only one stop on my list of places and that's Raven's Stadium, which would be at the end. Light Rail doesn't doesn't extend any further eastward than the Camden Yards stop. Fells, Canton, Little Italy, Harbor East, Fed Hill and the Inner Harbor have no mass transit system other than busses running through them. It would be expensive, but they need a monorail or subway or something.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Adding the Red Line will improve things ten-fold. But even then that leaves eastern Balt. Co without a way to get downtown on a mass transit system. Meanwhile, if the Red Line is completed, western Balt. Co will have 3 ways to get downtown (metro, LR, and Red Line).

That's really the worst part. I'd love to take the Metro or light rail into the city, at least from White Marsh or someplace like that. But to do anything I'd have to drive over to Timonium, and the Red Line isn't going to fix that.

[NewMarketSean]

Um... no? The light rail passes only one stop on my list of places and that's Raven's Stadium, which would be at the end. Light Rail doesn't doesn't extend any further eastward than the Camden Yards stop. Fells, Canton, Little Italy, Harbor East, Fed Hill and the Inner Harbor have no mass transit system other than busses running through them. It would be expensive, but they need a monorail or subway or something.

But it would be expensive to the point that it would never get built. Believe me, I'd love to have a full subway system like DC, but it aint happening. This is Baltimore. Also, there are already underground CSX lines that run under the city and tunneling around that would create other problems.

The Red Line is a start, but they also need to extend the green line through to Parkville or someplace out east by the beltway to give east siders a mass transit option downtown and create a LR line that goes through downtown Towson.

In other words, they need to do this:

http://www.gbc.org/bta/Media/BRRSP_72.jpg

[Enjoy Terror]

Yeah, thats basically what I'd like to see.

I've taken the Green line a couple times to work because I work in Mt. Vernon (Chase/Charles) and lived about a block from the Shot Tower (Exeter/Baltimore) for a year. A five minute car ride turned into a 45 minute adventure on the subway and I hated doing it.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Um... no? The light rail passes only one stop on my list of places and that's Raven's Stadium, which would be at the end. Light Rail doesn't doesn't extend any further eastward than the Camden Yards stop. Fells, Canton, Little Italy, Harbor East, Fed Hill and the Inner Harbor have no mass transit system other than busses running through them. It would be expensive, but they need a monorail or subway or something.

Sean's wrong about hitting the same places as the light rail, like you said, but he's saying basically the same thing as you. I just think you two are getting your terms confused. We're all talking about basically the same thing: a "light rail" line that would be above-ground, but then go under downtown. Really what the original line should have done instead of taking over Howard Street.

[Enjoy Terror]

I live in Texas, Maryland now (one of the proposed stops on the north Yellow/Blue line, and they definitely don't need a stop there. The distance between the Timonium park and ride and the Warren Rd. stop is very close already.

[NewMarketSean]

Sean's wrong about hitting the same places as the light rail, like you said, but he's saying basically the same thing as you. I just think you two are getting your terms confused. We're all talking about basically the same thing: a "light rail" line that would be above-ground, but then go under downtown. Really what the original line should have done instead of taking over Howard Street.

Yeah we're definitely on the same page. I am just talking about what can realistically happen, and because the LR already serves the Ravens stadium, there is little chance a new line would stop there too. There is such a thing as a train transfer, but just not in Baltimore..... yet.

[Enjoy Terror]

I'm not sure where Baltimore would find the room to put in a light rail line in east baltimore, unless they did it like in chicago or new york with elevated rails... which would be sort of cool. Last thing I really want to see is the light rail moving up and down Boston street clogging up traffic.

[NewMarketSean]

I'm not sure where Baltimore would find the room to put in a light rail line in east baltimore, unless they did it like in chicago or new york with elevated rails... which would be sort of cool. Last thing I really want to see is the light rail moving up and down Boston street clogging up traffic.

Fells Point will be served via a tunnel.

[PaulBako]

They should connect the Washington Metro and the Baltimore Metro to make one big system.


"Baltimore-Washington Metro"

[PaulBako]

I like the idea of extending the Green line to BWI airport.

I hope it goes through Howard County!

Howard County has terrible public transportation!!!

[BaltimoreTerp]

*Insert Maryland County Name Here* County has terrible public transportation!!!

Fixed...:laughlol:

[NewMarketSean]

They should connect the Washington Metro and the Baltimore Metro to make one big system.


"Baltimore-Washington Metro"

I saw a map someone made on their own that combined the two cities mass transit systems... D.C.'s current one and the proposed Baltimore one, with more MARC train connections than there are now. It was sweet.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I saw a map someone made on their own that combined the two cities mass transit systems... D.C.'s current one and the proposed Baltimore one, with more MARC train connections than there are now. It was sweet.

Yeah, with the MARC they really are already connected to a point. More would be better, though.

[blueberryale77]

*Insert Maryland County Name Here* County has terrible public transportation!!!

Fixed...:laughlol:

Clearly you haven't spent much time in North Carolina (or the south in general for that matter).

But in all seriousness, yes, Maryland has terrible public transportation compared to most of the civilized world (and some places you might not call civilized).

[NewMarketSean]

Clearly you haven't spent much time in North Carolina (or the south in general for that matter).

But in all seriousness, yes, Maryland has terrible public transportation compared to most of the civilized world (and some places you might not call civilized).

It could be worse. There is no mass transit other than buses in Cincinnati, which means you either have to drive or ride the bus to the games. When we were there 2 weeks ago, there were a ton of Bengals fans parking in garages, lots, etc. That would suck.

[blueberryale77]

It could be worse. There is no mass transit other than buses in Cincinnati, which means you either have to drive or ride the bus to the games. When we were there 2 weeks ago, there were a ton of Bengals fans parking in garages, lots, etc. That would suck.

Oh don't get me wrong, there are many, many places in the US that have invested less and/or less intelligently in transit... but virtually none in any other developed country.

[PaulBako]

Oh don't get me wrong, there are many, many places in the US that have invested less and/or less intelligently in transit... but virtually none in any other developed country.

I have driven through North Carolina, and I don't see very good public transportation.

[NewMarketSean]

So Sheila Dixon talked about the Red Line in her "state of the city" address.... what are the latest updates?

[TGO]

So Sheila Dixon talked about the Red Line in her "state of the city" address.... what are the latest updates?

From the website:


The official 90-day AA/DEIS comment period closed on January 5, 2009. We would like to thank all of those who offered comments on the project. Over 600 comments were received, either at the hearings or in writing.

A summary of public hearing comments will be available on the website in February/March 2009.

From that point the MTA will have to pick a "locally preferred alternative" and take their request to the FTA. If the FTA is amenable, I believe the next step is what is called a "PE/FEIS" - preliminary engineering and final environmental impact statement. That process takes like two years.

[Balmer Bomber]

Clearly you haven't spent much time in North Carolina (or the south in general for that matter).

But in all seriousness, yes, Maryland has terrible public transportation compared to most of the civilized world (and some places you might not call civilized).

Central Florida spent tens of millions of dollars a decade ago to research (and ultimately decided against) building some sort of commuter rail.

Now they are headlong in a plan to use existing track for a commuter rail to run along the I4 corridor. And the rail system could/should be up and running before the construction on I4 (which is already underway) is complete.

http://www.sunrail.com/

[NewMarketSean]

From the website:



From that point the MTA will have to pick a "locally preferred alternative" and take their request to the FTA. If the FTA is amenable, I believe the next step is what is called a "PE/FEIS" - preliminary engineering and final environmental impact statement. That process takes like two years.

So you're saying there's a chance!

[rolliefingers]

So you're saying there's a chance!

Yes, there's a pretty good chance.

The Obama Administration is likely to increase overall transit funding, and/or loosen the cost-effectiveness (C/E) requirements that guide whether the FTA funds a project or doesn't. Either of those scenarios would make the Red Line more likely to happen, especially because the preferred alternative (4C) is significantly more expensive than the current FTA cut-off point.

The option that pretty much everyone is backing is 4C, which would be surface Light Rail from Security, tunnel under Cooks Lane, surface along Rt. 40, in the median of the "highway to nowhere," surface along the west side of MLK, tunnel under Lombard Street downtown and Eastern Ave. through Fells Point, then surface along Boston St. in Canton and up to a new MARC station at Bayview. If O'Malley recommends that alignment, then it will be up to the FTA to fund it or not fund it.

I have mixed feelings about this. Put as simply as possible: building Light Rail with the amount of tunnelling they're proposing is the worst of both worlds. Tunnelling is very expensive and fraught with delays and cost overruns; Light Rail is slower than Heavy Rail and has less capacity for future growth.

Basically, if you're going to do that much tunnelling, just make the damned thing a Subway. If you don't want to do that, then put the whole thing aboveground.

In Baltimore, surface Light Rail is unfairly stigmatized because of the Howard Street debacle. Our current LR is one of the first modern LR systems in America. They've made a lot of strides in the past 17 years - the trains are smaller and lower to the ground, and we now have the technology to pre-empt car traffic signals to the point that LR is significantly faster than it used to be.

All that said, having a Red Line will ultimately be better than not having one.

However, I wish they'd either choose an all-surface option or go back to the drawing board and make the whole thing an underground subway.

[Birds of B'more]

Stumbled across this (http://www.baltimorphosis.com/) and thought I'd share. It's basically a website that discusses what to do with the disjointed "highway" running through West Baltimore that was once supposed to be a part of the I-70 extension into the city. The premise is that in addition to running the proposed Red Line along that route, sites creators also propose getting rid of most of the automobile lanes and replacing them with urban development. The coolest part of the site is a 3-D modeling program that allows you to create and submit your own ideas.

While I favor the idea of additional development along the route, I think the trench should be filled in so everything is raised up to the level of the surrounding area.....having it in a trench like that would seem to shut it off from the surrounding neighborhoods. Then again, maybe we could model it after Underground Atlanta (http://www.underground-atlanta.com/)? Only instead of just an entertainment area, Baltimore could take it even further and have residential and other commercial development along with it.

[NewMarketSean]

Stumbled across this (http://www.baltimorphosis.com/) and thought I'd share. It's basically a website that discusses what to do with the disjointed "highway" running through West Baltimore that was once supposed to be a part of the I-70 extension into the city. The premise is that in addition to running the proposed Red Line along that route, sites creators also propose getting rid of most of the automobile lanes and replacing them with urban development. The coolest part of the site is a 3-D modeling program that allows you to create and submit your own ideas.

While I favor the idea of additional development along the route, I think the trench should be filled in so everything is raised up to the level of the surrounding area.....having it in a trench like that would seem to shut it off from the surrounding neighborhoods. Then again, maybe we could model it after Underground Atlanta (http://www.underground-atlanta.com/)? Only instead of just an entertainment area, Baltimore could take it even further and have residential and other commercial development along with it.

Or better yet run that section of the red line underground and fill in the trench around it.

And pretty cool website there. I really hope this red line happens at some point in my lifetime.

[Birds of B'more]

Curious to see what others think of this idea (http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-bz.jfx17may17,0,7643521.story).


Seeking ways to revitalize Baltimore's east side, the city is exploring the idea of tearing down a mile-long stretch of the Jones Falls Expressway that divides downtown from the Johns Hopkins medical campus.

Baltimore's Department of Transportation has hired an engineering team headed by Rummel, Klepper & Kahl LLP to examine the pros and cons of razing the elevated expressway roughly between Chase and Fayette streets and replacing it with a landscaped "urban boulevard" that would provide access to an area larger than Charles Center or the Harbor East renewal district.

The estimated cost is $1 billion or more, and no funding is in place. The $60,000 study represents the first time Mayor Sheila Dixon's administration has allocated money specifically to assess the concept of replacing the expressway with a boulevard designed to stimulate development. The civil engineers began work earlier this year and are expected to present their findings by late summer.

I remember hearing discussions about this several years ago when I was still living in the City. Personally, I'm not so sure I like it. At least not right now. Here's why.

1) The current public transportation system in Baltimore is too inadequate to be eliminating part of the main arterial highway in and out of the City from the north.

2) It doesn't look like this project will be eligible for federal funds, and the City and State have better things to spend $1 billion on.....like the aforementioned inadequate public transportation system.

3) A significant portion of the redevelopment area is bordered by Central Booking and the State Penitentiary. How appealing is that going to be to a developer?

[NewMarketSean]

Curious to see what others think of this idea (http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-bz.jfx17may17,0,7643521.story).



I remember hearing discussions about this several years ago when I was still living in the City. Personally, I'm not so sure I like it. At least not right now. Here's why.

1) The current public transportation system in Baltimore is too inadequate to be eliminating part of the main arterial highway in and out of the City from the north.

2) It doesn't look like this project will be eligible for federal funds, and the City and State have better things to spend $1 billion on.....like the aforementioned inadequate public transportation system.

3) A significant portion of the redevelopment area is bordered by Central Booking and the State Penitentiary. How appealing is that going to be to a developer?

Yeah, this billion dollars would be much better spent on the red line and extending the green line. You're right about the prison. That neighborhood is what it is. Plus I like that the market is under the highway.

The city is already in the process of rehabbing the East Side, or was, until the economy went down the tubes. They are going to build the North Ave cultural plaza and park. Now they need to give this city the public transit it deserves. Tearing down a mile of the JFX can wait.

[TGO]

Curious to see what others think of this idea (http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-bz.jfx17may17,0,7643521.story).



I remember hearing discussions about this several years ago when I was still living in the City. Personally, I'm not so sure I like it. At least not right now. Here's why.

1) The current public transportation system in Baltimore is too inadequate to be eliminating part of the main arterial highway in and out of the City from the north.

2) It doesn't look like this project will be eligible for federal funds, and the City and State have better things to spend $1 billion on.....like the aforementioned inadequate public transportation system.

3) A significant portion of the redevelopment area is bordered by Central Booking and the State Penitentiary. How appealing is that going to be to a developer?


Yeah, this billion dollars would be much better spent on the red line and extending the green line. You're right about the prison. That neighborhood is what it is. Plus I like that the market is under the highway.

The city is already in the process of rehabbing the East Side, or was, until the economy went down the tubes. They are going to build the North Ave cultural plaza and park. Now they need to give this city the public transit it deserves. Tearing down a mile of the JFX can wait.

This is just in the study phase for now. It is probably 10+ years out.

The farmer's market wouldn't be displaced except perhaps temporarily. It would find a home somewhere in the general vicinity and I think that new home would be just as good or better than the current one. It is on the list of concerns for the people who are studying the concept, so it will not be forgotten.

As for traffic, well, that's what the study is for. It is entirely possible that traffic will actually improve. Currently traffic has a tendency to funnel and back up because there are limited exits. With this plan, you would be able to turn off everywhere instead of being forced to choose either Fayette or Lombard in one direction or Pratt or Baltimore in the other.

I have been told that the study will include a rail line, probably a streetcar/trolley similar to the Charles Street Trolley, from Harbor East to Penn Station, so keep that in mind. This would presumably "connect" with both the Green Line (Shot Tower) and Red Line (both of these would be below ground so it would not be a direct transfer but it should be more direct than, say, the transfer at Lexington Market).

As a study, this is well worth the $60,000.

[TGO]

Stumbled across this (http://www.baltimorphosis.com/) and thought I'd share. It's basically a website that discusses what to do with the disjointed "highway" running through West Baltimore that was once supposed to be a part of the I-70 extension into the city. The premise is that in addition to running the proposed Red Line along that route, sites creators also propose getting rid of most of the automobile lanes and replacing them with urban development. The coolest part of the site is a 3-D modeling program that allows you to create and submit your own ideas.

While I favor the idea of additional development along the route, I think the trench should be filled in so everything is raised up to the level of the surrounding area.....having it in a trench like that would seem to shut it off from the surrounding neighborhoods. Then again, maybe we could model it after Underground Atlanta (http://www.underground-atlanta.com/)? Only instead of just an entertainment area, Baltimore could take it even further and have residential and other commercial development along with it.

Building caps over the ditch with development on top of them (but the road and the rail line running underneath) is basically the city's idea. The BaltiMorphosis site either ignored this or made the assumption that this would be too expensive and would be abandoned. Frankly, that is a pretty good assumption. The City's plan only envisions several blocks worth of these caps when the ditch is over a mile long. It remains to be seen where the money will come from to even make those several blocks materialize. This method of building is just out of this world expensive. You can see the city's plan here:
http://www.baltimorecity.gov/government/planning/downloads/1108/111308_WBaltMARC_Chapter3.pdf

There's probably some common ground between that and the BaltiMorphosis ideas.

So far, as far as I know, no one has credibly proposed filling in the ditch and putting everything above ground, road and train and all.

[Birds of B'more]

Building caps over the ditch with development on top of them (but the road and the rail line running underneath) is basically the city's idea. The BaltiMorphosis site either ignored this or made the assumption that this would be too expensive and would be abandoned. Frankly, that is a pretty good assumption. The City's plan only envisions several blocks worth of these caps when the ditch is over a mile long. It remains to be seen where the money will come from to even make those several blocks materialize. This method of building is just out of this world expensive. You can see the city's plan here:
http://www.baltimorecity.gov/government/planning/downloads/1108/111308_WBaltMARC_Chapter3.pdf

There's probably some common ground between that and the BaltiMorphosis ideas.

So far, as far as I know, no one has credibly proposed filling in the ditch and putting everything above ground, road and train and all.

True. And like the JFX project, I'm sure there's a question as to whether something like this would qualify for any federal funds. The good thing about the trench is that it does eliminate the need for tunneling for that portion of the Red Line, which is also out of this world expensive....thus guaranteeing that whatever form the Red Line takes it won't be running on the streets. I believe with a little creative and visionary thinking there is potential for viable development in, on top of, or around the trench. It's just a matter of getting a developer who can find the dollars for it. An even in a strong economy, I'm not sure how appealing potential investors would find the surrounding neighborhood.

[NewMarketSean]

Well, it seems like each time I ride the LR, I have yet another complaint.

After the game on Friday, I go out to the Camden Yards station to wait for a train. There are a lot of people there already so I am guessing that a train hadn't been by in maybe 5-10 mins. So we proceed to wait another 15 mins for a train. I know the LR trains are spaced out approx 15 mins all day long, but would it kill the MTA to beef up trains during sporting events like Ravens and O's games? Haven't they learned this in the 14 years the LR has been in existence?

But here is the kicker. When the LR train finally arrives, it gets stuck at the Camden Yards parking lot exit for pedestrians and cars. What a joke. Any mass transit vehicle should have the right of way under those circumstances. So tack on an additional 3-5 mins waiting time so the police can let people in their cars get out of the parking lot, making the people who actually support Baltimore's pathetic mass transit wait a little longer.

And how long is the MTA going to fail to check riders for LR tickets. It's gotten to the point where I almost want to stop buying tickets for the LR because I know no one is ever going to check me. The money the MTA loses from this in one year could probably pay for the Red Line.

[Birds of B'more]

Well, it seems like each time I ride the LR, I have yet another complaint.

After the game on Friday, I go out to the Camden Yards station to wait for a train. There are a lot of people there already so I am guessing that a train hadn't been by in maybe 5-10 mins. So we proceed to wait another 15 mins for a train. I know the LR trains are spaced out approx 15 mins all day long, but would it kill the MTA to beef up trains during sporting events like Ravens and O's games? Haven't they learned this in the 14 years the LR has been in existence?

But here is the kicker. When the LR train finally arrives, it gets stuck at the Camden Yards parking lot exit for pedestrians and cars. What a joke. Any mass transit vehicle should have the right of way under those circumstances. So tack on an additional 3-5 mins waiting time so the police can let people in their cars get out of the parking lot, making the people who actually support Baltimore's pathetic mass transit wait a little longer.

And how long is the MTA going to fail to check riders for LR tickets. It's gotten to the point where I almost want to stop buying tickets for the LR because I know no one is ever going to check me. The money the MTA loses from this in one year could probably pay for the Red Line.

MTA is traditionally very slow to recognize trends that could affect ridership. They were probably expecting the usual 20,000 attendance on Friday night. I bet no one within the organization realized Wieters was making his debut that night. Heck, I'm not sure anyone even knew who he was or what significance he has to the Orioles.

[NewMarketSean]

Well, I thought I'd bump this thread since the Red Line news is heating up a bit. I've heard that they are looking for people from each neighborhood where there is going to be a station to get ideas from them on how to limit the disturbance of the construction as well as when the LR is up and running. They also want to have the look and feel of each stop to be influenced by each neighborhood, which is pretty cool.

I watched this (http://www.gobaltimoreredline.com/virtual_tour.html) video the other day and got excited.

But with Ehrlich saying he would cut one of the red line or purple line if he were elected, I wonder if it will ever happen. The state is still losing money and transit lines aren't known to be moneymakers.

So until it actually gets built, I have my fingers crossed.

[Birds of B'more]

Looks like China has come up with a pretty clever idea....it certainly saves space at ground level, and tons of money from not having to tunnel below ground. Not sure if it would work on city roads in the States, probably only on major thoroughfares, but interesting to think about.

China Plans Huge Buses That Can DRIVE OVER Cars (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/02/3d-express-coach-pictures_n_667452.html)

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/9151/slide_9151_121540_large.jpg

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/9151/slide_9151_121542_large.jpg?1281047683023

[BaltimoreTerp]

Hmm...elevated trains without the elevated track. That's a hell of an interesting idea.

[PaulBako]

Man I would be too scared to drive under one of those things.

[Birds of B'more]

Man I would be too scared to drive under one of those things.

That would spook me at first too, but I think people would get used to it quickly. Also, I would think there would be the potential for something like that to obstruct a car driver's view of a traffic light.

[Crazysilver03]

That would spook me at first too, but I think people would get used to it quickly. Also, I would think there would be the potential for something like that to obstruct a car driver's view of a traffic light.

The thing looks too tall to clear traffic lights. The only way it could be done is to move traffic lights to street corners, which personally, I dont like.

[twoBshorty]

Having driven around in both Beijing and Shanghai, I don't see how that thing doesn't cause massive death. Chinese roads are extremely crowded and with all the overloaded bicycles, cars driving between lanes, and people who don't check their blind spots, someone will be crushed every time that bus moves out of a straight line.

[Birds of B'more]

The thing looks too tall to clear traffic lights. The only way it could be done is to move traffic lights to street corners, which personally, I dont like.

Either that or they would have to raise the traffic lights...which again would probably affect the line-of-sight for a lot of drivers that are underneath that thing as they approach an intersection. In order to work it would almost have to run on a divided, limited-access highway rather than surface streets.

[NewMarketSean]

http://wjz.com/local/transportation.governor.race.2.1865082.html

Looks like this race for gov is going to determine the future of mass transit in Maryland.

[Nigel Tufnel]

That would spook me at first too, but I think people would get used to it quickly. Also, I would think there would be the potential for something like that to obstruct a car driver's view of a traffic light.

And what if somebody in a car wanted to, for example, turn?

[NewMarketSean]

An opinion piece about Ehrlich's BRT fallback option for red line in Baltimore and purple line in DC.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/2010/08/post_126.html

[PrivateO]

How would you....merge?

[BaltimoreTerp]

No BRT! :old5fan:

[Nigel Tufnel]

Bumping this to note that Florida recently turned down $2.4 billion in federal rail funds, and Maryland is applying for it (http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/traffic/2011/02/omalley_makes_pitch_for_money.html) to, among other things, fix the B&P tunnel.

Also, in unrelated news, the first leg of the ICC opens on Tuesday (http://www.iccproject.com/PDFs/FINALICCPressReleaseTestDrive2.7.11.pdf), and there will be no tolls for the first couple of weeks.

[NewMarketSean]

Yep. I read that a lot of the republican governors are refusing the funding on principle. For instance, Minneapolis wanted to build a line to Chicago and Wisconsin's governor stopped it dead.

I won't get into politics, but it stinks that trains of all things have become a political issue.

[Birds of B'more]

Bumping this to note that Florida recently turned down $2.4 billion in federal rail funds, and Maryland is applying for it (http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/traffic/2011/02/omalley_makes_pitch_for_money.html) to, among other things, fix the B&P tunnel.

Also, in unrelated news, the first leg of the ICC opens on Tuesday (http://www.iccproject.com/PDFs/FINALICCPressReleaseTestDrive2.7.11.pdf), and there will be no tolls for the first couple of weeks.

As nice as high-speed rail between major cities would be, there is a lot of existing rail infrastructure along the NE corridor that desperately needs to be upgraded. I hope MD gets some of that money for those projects.

[srock]

Yep. I read that a lot of the republican governors are refusing the funding on principle. For instance, Minneapolis wanted to build a line to Chicago and Wisconsin's governor stopped it dead.

I won't get into politics, but it stinks that trains of all things have become a political issue.

Timing is a really an issue with all of this. Florida is no position to be taking on any sort of potential cost. However, there are ways the state could green light the project without taking the risk, vis-a-vis, private groups bidding on the contract to operate the line. But that fact is, right now Florida has no growth. Possibly negative growth, which doesn't bode well for building a train if no one comes to ride it.

On the other hand our new governor may not the power to shut this down. The state legislature is looking at going around him, so it might still happen.

[NewMarketSean]

As nice as high-speed rail between major cities would be, there is a lot of existing rail infrastructure along the NE corridor that desperately needs to be upgraded. I hope MD gets some of that money for those projects.

Freeing up the CSX tunnel under Howard Street would be awesome....they could run the light rail through it and get rid of the super slow street-level portion downtown.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Freeing up the CSX tunnel under Howard Street would be awesome....they could run the light rail through it and get rid of the super slow street-level portion downtown.

Seriously. As much as I want to see more rail transit around here, they really should take care of all of the existing issues first. Especially when solving some of them can lead to solutions for others, like the light rail.

[Birds of B'more]

Freeing up the CSX tunnel under Howard Street would be awesome....they could run the light rail through it and get rid of the super slow street-level portion downtown.

Totally. And if they do that they could even create a station that serves both the light rail and the Metro. You know, actually creating a transit system, instead of a bunch of disjointed pieces.

[NewMarketSean]

Totally. And if they do that they could even create a station that serves both the light rail and the Metro. You know, actually creating a transit system, instead of a bunch of disjointed pieces.

Charles Center has a second level capable of handling a north-south line.

[NewMarketSean]

Good news for the Red Line...

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-10-10/news/bs-md-redline-expedite-20111010_1_cooks-lane-rail-project-red-line