Boller should be the starter.

[Bmo24Ph]

Been saying that all year. McNair is done. Today the recievers did all the work and McNair didn't throw a single deep pass. He brings no deepball what so ever.

[Pushmonkey]

Been saying that all year. McNair is done. Today the recievers did all the work and McNair didn't throw a single deep pass. He brings no deepball what so ever.

I'm not going to comment, as I fear I might violate the board rules.

[square634]

I thought McNair played well today. It was the defense that really started to lose it in the second half, we still were able to move the ball decently. :shrug:

[The Wedge]

I'm nowhere near McNair's biggest fan right now, but for god's sake, McNair had a good game. I question his drive though, and that's the only thing I question about the game he played today. He should have wanted to be in there to the end if he only "tweaked" that groin.

[Sports Guy]

McNair played well today...He did nothing to say that he shouldn't keep getting the chance to be the starter.

[The Wedge]

I heard that he didn't say anything, that Billick saw he was limping a bit and took him out...Billick actually said that himself. Both McNair and Boller were apparently surprised.

He didn't look that surprised. He was standing on the sidelines just jabbing away with someone. If he felt like he could go, he should have been pressing that fact. He seemed almost happy to be on the sidelines.

[Sports Guy]

He didn't look that surprised. He was standing on the sidelines just jabbing away with someone. If he felt like he could go, he should have been pressing that fact. He seemed almost happy to be on the sidelines.

After his one scramble, McNair definitely came up limping a little bit.

I didn't even think he should start but they did start him anyway....So, if there was any signs of possibly really hurting it, no reason to keep him in there.

[longflyball]

I question his drive though, and that's the only thing I question about the game he played today. He should have wanted to be in there to the end if he only "tweaked" that groin.

I sometimes get the impression that McNair doesn't really give a damn.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I'll give credit where credit is due. McNair had a good-enough game.

A lot of weeks, that is all this team would need to win.

However, once again, McNair isn't going to stay healthy, and I don't know if we should have to risk changing quarterbacks every single game in critical situations.

[Mackus]

I'd also prefer Boller to be the starter, but McNair did have quite a good game today, looked considerably better than he has in a long time.

[ccbird]

ROFL @ anyone trying to take anything away from the game McNair played today. And some of you thought the Boller bashers were too critical and reached a lot.

McNair is a warrior, and he always has been. I'm certain he didn't take himself out.It was Billick, who was again being too cautious and conservative in another game that we didn't have won at the time.

[BaltimoreTerp]

ROFL @ anyone trying to take anything away from the game McNair played today. And some of you thought the Boller bashers were too critical and reached a lot.

McNair is a warrior, and he always has been. I'm certain he didn't take himself out.It was Billick, who was again being too cautious and conservative in another game that we didn't have won at the time.

Yeah, it was a real shame that Boller stunk it up and threw the game away.

Oh, wait...

Boller 8-10, 83 yards (80%, 10.4 YPC)
McNair 20-27, 198 yards (74%, 9.9 YPC)

[AgentOrange]

Yeah, it was a real shame that Boller stunk it up and threw the game away.

Oh, wait...

Boller 8-10, 83 yards (80%, 10.4 YPC)
McNair 20-27, 198 yards (74%, 9.9 YPC)

Wow, they both had a good game. There is no real comparison. If you are throwing those stats out there to prove a point, all you are really proving is that both of our QBs played well.

ITs not a bad thing that they both play. Two different styles is sometimes hard for defenses. Look at us today, we couldn't stop Warner.


We should just be happy we have 2 capable QBs in this league. Some only have 1 and some don't have any at all. We are very fortunate.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Wow, they both had a good game. There is no real comparison. If you are throwing those stats out there to prove a point, all you are really proving is that both of our QBs played well.

ITs not a bad thing that they both play. Two different styles is sometimes hard for defenses. Look at us today, we couldn't stop Warner.


We should just be happy we have 2 capable QBs in this league. Some only have 1 and some don't have any at all. We are very fortunate.

That is EXACTLY what I was saying.

He was suggesting that by taking McNair out when he was, it hurt the team, when it did nowhere near such a thing. That's just a dumb suggestion.

[NewMarketSean]

Dumb thread. McNair played well. Boller played well, we won despite the defense slacking off in the second half. This needs to be addressed because we've almost lost 2 games now after having big leads. I know we should probably go for the jugular a little more on offense when up by 3 scores, but the defense needs to do their job too and they haven't the last 2 games.

[Hank Scorpio]

I heard that he didn't say anything, that Billick saw he was limping a bit and took him out...Billick actually said that himself. Both McNair and Boller were apparently surprised.

Demetrius Williams asked McNair if he was okay and he said, "Yeah, I'm fine."

I think it was more of a decision to try and limit the number of times McNair gets smacked unnecessarily. I think Boller played quite well, sans the play where he was sacked on 3rd down and it was plainly obvious that the OLB was blitzing. Boller's been in this league long enough to recognize that blitz and check the play.

End of the day, Boller drove us down the field to win the game and he made more than one very good throw.

I thought McNair looked just fine, FWIW. I think his groin might be a little tight still, but it's no worse than it was. I would guess he's your starter next week.

[Hank Scorpio]

I sometimes get the impression that McNair doesn't really give a damn.

Forget that impression, that's not even close to accurate.

[ccbird]

That is EXACTLY what I was saying.

He was suggesting that by taking McNair out when he was, it hurt the team, when it did nowhere near such a thing. That's just a dumb suggestion.

LOL. How do you get that I suggested that from my post???

Because I said Billick was cautious and conservative taking McNair out???It was cautious and conservative to take the starting QB who was playing well at the time out of the game for the cold backup in a 10 point game with 12 min left.

Quit reaching and reading into posts. Nowhere did I comment on Boller's play today which was fine.

[Dipper9]

ROFL @ anyone trying to take anything away from the game McNair played today. And some of you thought the Boller bashers were too critical and reached a lot.

McNair is a warrior, and he always has been. I'm certain he didn't take himself out.It was Billick, who was again being too cautious and conservative in another game that we didn't have won at the time.

So when Boller fumbles the ball, trips over his own feet, and plays relatively uninspiring football, its okay to bash him? But when McNair does the same thing, he is untouchable? Once again, typical biased fans seeing things the way they want to see it!

Give me Boller any day at this point. McNair did nothing for me last year, and as someone else stated, he looks like he just doesn't give a damn out there. once AGAIN we had to burn a TO early in the first quarter because he shows no hurry to get to the line. It happens every week. Plus it is obvious he cannot throw the deep ball anymore. Teams will certainly pick up on this and start crowding the line like they used to do to Jamal. We may be 2-1 right now, and God knows I'll take it, but we could easily be an 0-3 team, and we have a lot of issues to get straight.

[AgentOrange]

So when Boller fumbles the ball, trips over his own feet, and plays relatively uninspiring football, its okay to bash him? But when McNair does the same thing, he is untouchable? Once again, typical biased fans seeing things the way they want to see it!

Give me Boller any day at this point. McNair did nothing for me last year, and as someone else stated, he looks like he just doesn't give a damn out there. once AGAIN we had to burn a TO early in the first quarter because he shows no hurry to get to the line. It happens every week. Plus it is obvious he cannot throw the deep ball anymore. Teams will certainly pick up on this and start crowding the line like they used to do to Jamal. We may be 2-1 right now, and God knows I'll take it, but we could easily be an 0-3 team, and we have a lot of issues to get straight.

But what did McNair do today? None of those things. He didn't get sacked to take us out of FG range. HE didn't almost throw a pick and he didn't lob a ball over the line to the RB for him to catch and get smacked.

He looks like he doesn't give a damn? How can you tell? Because he is not pouting on the bench when he is not in the game?

People are ridiculous on this board. Both QBs played well and both are going to have times where they are open to criticism, thus making it easy for some of the other QB's supporters to really attack. Its not getting anywhere. People need to understand we have 2 good QBs and that is how this season is going to pan out.

The main issues we have is the D, nothing more, nothing less. Our Offense can go out there and win games, which I will argue they won the last two. The D on the other hand needs to step it up and put games away. Too lax with a lead.

[Mark Carver]

But what did McNair do today? None of those things. He didn't get sacked to take us out of FG range. HE didn't almost throw a pick and he didn't lob a ball over the line to the RB for him to catch and get smacked.

I find it an interesting in the way you go about to defend McNair by degrading Boller's play, like, "He didn't get sacked to take us out of FG range.". How about you looking at the replay again of that sack. The defender sacked him from the blind side and he was also not touched by anybody from the line of scrimmage. To blame Boller for this is ridiculous.

Well, since were picking on QB play... how about McNair was 0-for-2 from the Red Zone the first 2 drives and had to settle for FG's instead? How about in the 3rd Quarter when McNair was sacked and fumbled and lost the ball on the Ravens 35 yard line, basically giving the Cardinals at least 3 points?


He looks like he doesn't give a damn? How can you tell? Because he is not pouting on the bench when he is not in the game?

People are ridiculous on this board. Both QBs played well and both are going to have times where they are open to criticism, thus making it easy for some of the other QB's supporters to really attack. Its not getting anywhere. People need to understand we have 2 good QBs and that is how this season is going to pan out.

The main issues we have is the D, nothing more, nothing less. Our Offense can go out there and win games, which I will argue they won the last two. The D on the other hand needs to step it up and put games away. Too lax with a lead.

If not for Figurs 75 yard punt return TD, the Ravens lose the game to the Cardinals. I don't know, but 19 points by the offense does not make me feel all warm and cozy, no matter how good the defense may be.

[Hank Scorpio]

I find it an interesting in the way you go about to defend McNair by degrading Boller's play, like, "He didn't get sacked to take us out of FG range." How about you looking at the replay again of that sack. The defender sacked him from the blind side and he was also not touched by anybody from the line of scrimmage. To blame Boller for this is ridiculous.

Well, since were picking on QB play... how about McNair was 0-for-2 from the Red Zone the first 2 drives and had to settle for FG's instead? How about in the 3rd Quarter when McNair was sacked and fumbled and lost the ball on the Ravens 35 yard line, basically giving the Cardinals at least 3 points?



If not for Figurs 75 yard punt return TD, the Ravens lose the game to the Cardinals. I don't know, but 19 points by the offense does not make me feel all warm and cozy, no matter how good the defense may be.

I am kinda on the fence about who's better for this team, but it's perfectly reasonable to blame Boller for that sack. The LB was standing right there at the line of scrimmage. This is KB's 4th year in the league. A good quarterback sees that blitz coming and checks to a different play. Once the ball was snapped, there's nothing he can do, but it should never have gotten to that point.

I thought Boller made 4 or 5 very nice throws and put us in a position to win the game. He played very well for the most part.

[Hank Scorpio]

But what did McNair do today? None of those things. He didn't get sacked to take us out of FG range. HE didn't almost throw a pick and he didn't lob a ball over the line to the RB for him to catch and get smacked.

He looks like he doesn't give a damn? How can you tell? Because he is not pouting on the bench when he is not in the game?

People are ridiculous on this board. Both QBs played well and both are going to have times where they are open to criticism, thus making it easy for some of the other QB's supporters to really attack. Its not getting anywhere. People need to understand we have 2 good QBs and that is how this season is going to pan out.

The main issues we have is the D, nothing more, nothing less. Our Offense can go out there and win games, which I will argue they won the last two. The D on the other hand needs to step it up and put games away. Too lax with a lead.

I thought McNair played very well too... but he definitely tripped (over Flynn's feet) and he definitely fumbled, too.

I wouldn't go as far as to say he played uninspired football, but he had his hiccups as well.

[Dipper9]

But what did McNair do today? None of those things. He didn't get sacked to take us out of FG range. HE didn't almost throw a pick and he didn't lob a ball over the line to the RB for him to catch and get smacked.

He looks like he doesn't give a damn? How can you tell? Because he is not pouting on the bench when he is not in the game?

People are ridiculous on this board. Both QBs played well and both are going to have times where they are open to criticism, thus making it easy for some of the other QB's supporters to really attack. Its not getting anywhere. People need to understand we have 2 good QBs and that is how this season is going to pan out.

The main issues we have is the D, nothing more, nothing less. Our Offense can go out there and win games, which I will argue they won the last two. The D on the other hand needs to step it up and put games away. Too lax with a lead.

Ummm...yes he did. He tripped over his own feet (more acurately, the lineman stepped on his foot, but since everyone always says that Boller tripped over his feet when the lineman steps on him, I will say the same about McNair), he fumbled the ball after a marginal hit, and as someone stated he was 0fer the first two trips inside the red zone. And YES, he does appear to me to look as though he is uninspired! Standing on the sideline laughing and joking while your team gives up a 17 point lead in the 4th quarter? Not getting in the coaches face about why he was taken out of the game? Overall lack of urgency in getting snaps off and thus burning Time outs in the first quarter (he does this every week, check the tapes.) I am not "bashing" McNair as much as to say he is not much (if any) better than Boller, yet everyone in this town seems to hate on everything Kyle does while McNair gets a free pass. Well he's not gonna get a free pass from me!

[McLovin]

I question his drive though, and that's the only thing I question about the game he played today. He should have wanted to be in there to the end if he only "tweaked" that groin.
We're only having this discussion because the defense couldn't do their job.

McNair was taken out to not push it and risk further injury. Boller was in there to mop up. Before McNair came out, when we were up 20-3 or whatever it was, Hasselbach said that he had talked to Billick and he said that this was the exact plan - to get a lead, put Boller in, and let the defense finish them off.

Again, the defense sucked. So now what does he do - pull Boller? What kind of a message does that send? "You're my mop up guy." Billick painted himself into a corner, and luckily Boller was able to bail him out.

[The Wedge]

We're only having this discussion because the defense couldn't do their job.

McNair was taken out to not push it and risk further injury. Boller was in there to mop up. Before McNair came out, when we were up 20-3 or whatever it was, Hasselbach said that he had talked to Billick and he said that this was the exact plan - to get a lead, put Boller in, and let the defense finish them off.

Again, the defense sucked. So now what does he do - pull Boller? What kind of a message does that send? "You're my mop up guy." Billick painted himself into a corner, and luckily Boller was able to bail him out.

Hasselback changed his story a few times, though, and I take national commentators with a grain of salt.

I agree that this game was on the defense for once, but I just don't like the cavalier attitude of McNair sometimes.
I was mainly concerned with his consistently lollygagging up to the line and burning a timeout in the first quarter, and how he was just sort of having a grand old time on the sidelines while the team was melting down.

[Dipper9]

Hasselback changed his story a few times, though, and I take national commentators with a grain of salt.

I agree that this game was on the defense for once, but I just don't like the cavalier attitude of McNair sometimes.
I was mainly concerned with his consistently lollygagging up to the line and burning a timeout in the first quarter, and how he was just sort of having a grand old time on the sidelines while the team was melting down.

I was beginning to think I was the only one who gets burned up about this. In close games when we play good teams, he CANNOT keep burning first quarter timeouts because he has no urgency to get the play off. That gets my goat as much as seeing Paul Bako in an O's game!

[The Wedge]

I was beginning to think I was the only one who gets burned up about this. In close games when we play good teams, he CANNOT keep burning first quarter timeouts because he has no urgency to get the play off. That gets my goat as much as seeing Paul Bako in an O's game!

To be perfectly honest, I've noticed, but not really noticed the first quarter TO's until yesterday. When it happened yesterday, something in my brain clicked and I realized that happens way too often.

[biggsy]

So when Boller fumbles the ball, trips over his own feet, and plays relatively uninspiring football, its okay to bash him? But when McNair does the same thing, he is untouchable? Once again, typical biased fans seeing things the way they want to see it!

Give me Boller any day at this point. McNair did nothing for me last year, and as someone else stated, he looks like he just doesn't give a damn out there. once AGAIN we had to burn a TO early in the first quarter because he shows no hurry to get to the line. It happens every week. Plus it is obvious he cannot throw the deep ball anymore. Teams will certainly pick up on this and start crowding the line like they used to do to Jamal. We may be 2-1 right now, and God knows I'll take it, but we could easily be an 0-3 team, and we have a lot of issues to get straight.


Wow...just wow. McNair did nothing for you huh ? 13-3 record and a first round bye in the playoffs, brought the team down the field for game winning drives 3 or 4 times. But he's garbage right ?

Here are some fun facts for you about yesterdays game, in the 6 series that McNair ran the offense they had only 2 drives that lasted 4 plays or less one in which he fumbled and the other ended in a punt. And in those 6 series had possesion of the ball for 29:57. Thats an average of holding the ball for 5 minutes a series. In Bollers 3 series with the offense they had a 3 and out a 7 play drive that ended in a punt and the game winning drive (thanks to the refs for the Illegal Contact penelty on Heap).

If you don't know what I'm hinting at then let me explain. Yes the defense crashed and burned in the 4th quarter. However, Boller did them no favors in holding the ball for a minute the first drive and 4 minutes the next drive and punting the ball away. Not to mention getting yourself sacked out of field goal range. You can put your Boller shades on and blame the O-line. They are partially to blame. But a QB has got to see that blitz before the snap and call it out. And he's definitely gotta feel the pressure coming and get rid of the ball or make an attempt to get away from it. In his first series he almost blew the game twice with two horrible throws into coverage. Both easily could have been intercepted and possibly returned. But we don't mention that because he got lucky and both were not intercepted this time so we dismiss those throws right ? In his second drive he threw a quick out to Clayton that the DB made a break on and barely missed again, had it not been Roderick Hood and a better CB the Ravens would have been in ALOT of trouble.

My only complaints about Boller during his tenure with the Ravens have been his downfield inaccuracy, his inability to put the proper touch on certain passes, his pocket awareness and pre snap reads and his inability to progress through his reads. To me, none of those have improved enough for him to be an every day starter. And after seeing a 90% McNair perform the way he did yesterday I still feel he gives the Ravens the best chance to win.

[NewMarketSean]

Note this is not a trolling "I told you so post." You were able to discuss this subject with me, without resorting to personal attacks (unlike others), so I really do want to hear your response to this statement you made in the other thread which has since been closed.


I'm still scared of Boller in a close game. I don't think I've ever seen him lead a game tying or winning drive in the last 2:00 of a game.
Well, are you still scared? You can add the ARZ game yesterday to the comeback or late game wins that Boller has lead in his time in Baltimore.

And these are just off the top of my head...

@ NYJ 2004
HOU 2005
PIT 2005

Look forward to hearing from you.

[AgentOrange]

I find it an interesting in the way you go about to defend McNair by degrading Boller's play, like, "He didn't get sacked to take us out of FG range.". How about you looking at the replay again of that sack. The defender sacked him from the blind side and he was also not touched by anybody from the line of scrimmage. To blame Boller for this is ridiculous.

Well, since were picking on QB play... how about McNair was 0-for-2 from the Red Zone the first 2 drives and had to settle for FG's instead? How about in the 3rd Quarter when McNair was sacked and fumbled and lost the ball on the Ravens 35 yard line, basically giving the Cardinals at least 3 points?



If not for Figurs 75 yard punt return TD, the Ravens lose the game to the Cardinals. I don't know, but 19 points by the offense does not make me feel all warm and cozy, no matter how good the defense may be.


How do you know for sure? We moved the ball all game against them and if Figurs would have gotten hit anywhere on the field, who is to say we don't score on that drive?

You guys are nitpiking too many things. I have given Kyle is props way too many times on here and it is still ignored. I might as well not even embark on these conversations anymore. I am happy to have 2 capable QBs on this team and we are not worried if one goes down, we have a capable backup, no matter who we have as the starter.

As far as McNair, I did miss those hiccups. He did trip over the line but the fumble stinks because we need him to hold onto the ball. When he gets into traffic in the pocket, he does tend to hold the ball out there for the taking which will come back and bite us eventually.

And you can blame the QB for that sack that he took. He didn't take time to evalute the field and if he did, he would have saw the LB on his blindside. Those are some of the flaws he has, but he also has a lot of positives that he brings to the table.

[section34]

McNair played well today...He did nothing to say that he shouldn't keep getting the chance to be the starter.
McNair is unacceptably careless with the ball when under pressure in the pocket. His fumbles are killing us. They were the #1 reason why we lost the opener at Cincy. This is something he, especiually a veteran, can control. And not to mention the couple times he could easily have lost the ball. Its time for Boller Part Two. This one must be calmer and I think he will be as is evident in his play so far this year.

[ScottieBaseball]

McNair is unacceptably careless with the ball when under pressure in the pocket. His fumbles are killing us. They were the #1 reason why we lost the opener at Cincy. This is something he, especiually a veteran, can control. And not to mention the couple times he could easily have lost the ball. Its time for Boller Part Two. This one must be calmer and I think he will be as is evident in his play so far this year.

Man...it was one horrendous game for McNair. He had himself a fine game yesterday.

The events of the last three weeks have done nothing to refute the cliche about the #2 quarterback being the most popular guy in town. What Kyle's done this season is perform his job masterfully. That is, the job of the backup quarterback. He stepped in to replace the starter and did everything that was asked of him.

I've seen some people justify their desire for a change by citing the last two games from last season and this year's Cincinatti game. I haven't seen or heard one person do so while also acknowledging how McNair almost singlehandedly engineered four or five gutsy wins last season.

Replacing Steve McNair with Kyle Boller is nothing short of knee-jerk. This could come back to bite me, but I think when you step back and look at the big picture there's no question that McNair's the best man for the job. I'm not trying to take anything away from Boller. While sometimes his presence, value, and impact aren't getting the credit they deserve, it all certainly falls short of starting over McNair at this point. If McNair's groin injury persists or even if he has another bad game or two it might be worthy of reconsidering, but at this point McNair is a no-brainer over Boller.

They say the backup QB is always the most popular guy in town and this thread is proof that the cliche is alive and well.

[biggsy]

Note this is not a trolling "I told you so post." You were able to discuss this subject with me, without resorting to personal attacks (unlike others), so I really do want to hear your response to this statement you made in the other thread which has since been closed.



And these are just off the top of my head...

@ NYJ 2004
HOU 2005
PIT 2005

Look forward to hearing from you.


What do you want me to say ? He did a good job in leading the team in the final 2 minutes. I can't argue that he didn't. He was given alot of help with that 15 yard penalty that I honestly felt was the wrong call. Wilson didn't lead with his helmet or hit him in the head, it looked pretty clean. Without that 15 yard gift whos to say what could have happend. Other then that, Boller played well with the exception of a few passes that could have been game changing had a better DB been in the place of Roderick Hood.

However, in the NYJ game in 2004, It was actually Quincy Carter who led the Jets down the field in the final 2 minutes to tie the game and send it to overtime. In OT Boller was given Great field position getting the ball on the Jets 32 yard line in which case the ball was ran 7 times and the game winning FG was kicked.
In the Pitt. game in 2005 you mentioned, the last score in regulation was by Willie Parker with 10:00 mins left. In OT Mr. Boller was again given the ball in great field position at the 44 and the "drive" contained 5 runs and 4 passes, 2 in which were incomplete followed by a Stover 44 yard field goal.
In fact the HOU game is the only one you mentioned that holds any water at all.
Yeah, he did it yesterday. But IMO if McNair stays in I feel the Cardinals don't get close enough for the Ravens worry about a game winning drive. Nothing against Bollers play but he did go 3 and out in his first possesion and only took a minute off the clock then only took 4 minutes off the clock his second series. The way McNair had been playing I honestly feel like he would have converted the 3rd downs that Boller missed in those series. He was something like 9-12 on third down conversions on the day.

[Sports Guy]

What do you want me to say ? He did a good job in leading the team in the final 2 minutes. I can't argue that he didn't. He was given alot of help with that 15 yard penalty that I honestly felt was the wrong call. Wilson didn't lead with his helmet or hit him in the head, it looked pretty clean. Without that 15 yard gift whos to say what could have happend. Other then that, Boller played well with the exception of a few passes that could have been game changing had a better DB been in the place of Roderick Hood.

However, in the NYJ game in 2004, It was actually Quincy Carter who led the Jets down the field in the final 2 minutes to tie the game and send it to overtime. In OT Boller was given Great field position getting the ball on the Jets 32 yard line in which case the ball was ran 7 times and the game winning FG was kicked.
In the Pitt. game in 2005 you mentioned, the last score in regulation was by Willie Parker with 10:00 mins left. In OT Mr. Boller was again given the ball in great field position at the 44 and the "drive" contained 5 runs and 4 passes, 2 in which were incomplete followed by a Stover 44 yard field goal.
In fact the HOU game is the only one you mentioned that holds any water at all.
Yeah, he did it yesterday. But IMO if McNair stays in I feel the Cardinals don't get close enough for the Ravens worry about a game winning drive. Nothing against Bollers play but he did go 3 and out in his first possesion and only took a minute off the clock then only took 4 minutes off the clock his second series. The way McNair had been playing I honestly feel like he would have converted the 3rd downs that Boller missed in those series. He was something like 9-12 on third down conversions on the day.

He hit his head with his forearm...It was an obvious penalty that will always be called.

[NewMarketSean]

What do you want me to say ? He did a good job in leading the team in the final 2 minutes. I can't argue that he didn't. He was given alot of help with that 15 yard penalty that I honestly felt was the wrong call. Wilson didn't lead with his helmet or hit him in the head, it looked pretty clean. Without that 15 yard gift whos to say what could have happend. Other then that, Boller played well with the exception of a few passes that could have been game changing had a better DB been in the place of Roderick Hood.

However, in the NYJ game in 2004, It was actually Quincy Carter who led the Jets down the field in the final 2 minutes to tie the game and send it to overtime. In OT Boller was given Great field position getting the ball on the Jets 32 yard line in which case the ball was ran 7 times and the game winning FG was kicked.
In the Pitt. game in 2005 you mentioned, the last score in regulation was by Willie Parker with 10:00 mins left. In OT Mr. Boller was again given the ball in great field position at the 44 and the "drive" contained 5 runs and 4 passes, 2 in which were incomplete followed by a Stover 44 yard field goal.
In fact the HOU game is the only one you mentioned that holds any water at all.
Yeah, he did it yesterday. But IMO if McNair stays in I feel the Cardinals don't get close enough for the Ravens worry about a game winning drive. Nothing against Bollers play but he did go 3 and out in his first possesion and only took a minute off the clock then only took 4 minutes off the clock his second series. The way McNair had been playing I honestly feel like he would have converted the 3rd downs that Boller missed in those series. He was something like 9-12 on third down conversions on the day.

Wow. The excuses keep coming.

[Dipper9]

So when Boller fumbles the ball, trips over his own feet, and plays relatively uninspiring football, its okay to bash him? But when McNair does the same thing, he is untouchable? Once again, typical biased fans seeing things the way they want to see it!

Give me Boller any day at this point. McNair did nothing for me last year, and as someone else stated, he looks like he just doesn't give a damn out there. once AGAIN we had to burn a TO early in the first quarter because he shows no hurry to get to the line. It happens every week. Plus it is obvious he cannot throw the deep ball anymore. Teams will certainly pick up on this and start crowding the line like they used to do to Jamal. We may be 2-1 right now, and God knows I'll take it, but we could easily be an 0-3 team, and we have a lot of issues to get straight.


Wow...just wow. McNair did nothing for you huh ? 13-3 record and a first round bye in the playoffs, brought the team down the field for game winning drives 3 or 4 times. But he's garbage right ?

Here are some fun facts for you about yesterdays game, in the 6 series that McNair ran the offense they had only 2 drives that lasted 4 plays or less one in which he fumbled and the other ended in a punt. And in those 6 series had possesion of the ball for 29:57. Thats an average of holding the ball for 5 minutes a series. In Bollers 3 series with the offense they had a 3 and out a 7 play drive that ended in a punt and the game winning drive (thanks to the refs for the Illegal Contact penelty on Heap).

If you don't know what I'm hinting at then let me explain. Yes the defense crashed and burned in the 4th quarter. However, Boller did them no favors in holding the ball for a minute the first drive and 4 minutes the next drive and punting the ball away. Not to mention getting yourself sacked out of field goal range. You can put your Boller shades on and blame the O-line. They are partially to blame. But a QB has got to see that blitz before the snap and call it out. And he's definitely gotta feel the pressure coming and get rid of the ball or make an attempt to get away from it. In his first series he almost blew the game twice with two horrible throws into coverage. Both easily could have been intercepted and possibly returned. But we don't mention that because he got lucky and both were not intercepted this time so we dismiss those throws right ? In his second drive he threw a quick out to Clayton that the DB made a break on and barely missed again, had it not been Roderick Hood and a better CB the Ravens would have been in ALOT of trouble.

My only complaints about Boller during his tenure with the Ravens have been his downfield inaccuracy, his inability to put the proper touch on certain passes, his pocket awareness and pre snap reads and his inability to progress through his reads. To me, none of those have improved enough for him to be an every day starter. And after seeing a 90% McNair perform the way he did yesterday I still feel he gives the Ravens the best chance to win.

You can take up for McNair all you want, and YES, he does win games, but HE does not win the games. He is no better than Dilfer was when we won the SuperBowl, and if you ask me, he's much worse because of his carelessness with the football. In my fantasy football league, McNair is ranked 33rd. 33rd I say! Worse than some other team's backups, including ours. Boller is one spot higher. Anyway, not to belabor the point, but McNair did not win 13 games for us last year. He simply was one piece of the team. If we had a good QB, we would have beaten the Colts and moved on in the playoffs. The Pats and Colts will embarass us at home later this season, and much of it will be because McNair doesn't take care of the ball, doesn't manage a good clock, and is no longer capable of throwing the ball downfield! I'm sure you'll disagree, but this is my opinion and I stand by it. McNair stinks!

[markakis4pres]

As of right now, it should be Boller. There is no reason to start McNair with him being hurt.

We cant have McNair come out of the game with 5 minutes left and expect Boller to be great. It changes everything

When McNair's groin is healthy and he fells 110% then you go with him but until then, I think it should be Boller.

[ccbird]

Wow. The excuses keep coming.

OMG are you really going to dismiss the fact that Boller had to take the team down the field no more than 35 yards each time and only threw the ball 2 in the Jets and Pitt games combined. Dude comes at you with facts about the "game winning" drives and you dismiss them.

[NewMarketSean]

OMG! I bet that if the Ravens had lost those games it would all be Boller's fault. You know it's true.

[Mark Carver]

He hit his head with his forearm...It was an obvious penalty that will always be called.

And suffered a mild concussion, and is listed as day-to-day, as per The Sun.

From Boller, Stover rise to occasion (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-ravens0924,0,6511112.story?page=1)


"We had an airborne receiver hit by a defender, who we called launched into him, and he had a blow above the shoulders into the head area," referee Jerome Boger said.

[The Wedge]

OMG! I bet that if the Ravens had lost those games it would all be Boller's fault. You know it's true.

I have to agree here. Bottom line is: Boller did get the job done. His detractors would like you to believe he can't do it, but he has, more than once. And if he wouldn't have done it, ESPECIALLY with a short field, his detractors would be all over him.

The guy is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't at this point.

[ccbird]

Man...it was one horrendous game for McNair. He had himself a fine game yesterday.

The events of the last three weeks have done nothing to refute the cliche about the #2 quarterback being the most popular guy in town. What Kyle's done this season is perform his job masterfully. That is, the job of the backup quarterback. He stepped in to replace the starter and did everything that was asked of him.

I've seen some people justify their desire for a change by citing the last two games from last season and this year's Cincinatti game. I haven't seen or heard one person do so while also acknowledging how McNair almost singlehandedly engineered four or five gutsy wins last season.

Replacing Steve McNair with Kyle Boller is nothing short of knee-jerk. This could come back to bite me, but I think when you step back and look at the big picture there's no question that McNair's the best man for the job. I'm not trying to take anything away from Boller. While sometimes his presence, value, and impact aren't getting the credit they deserve, it all certainly falls short of starting over McNair at this point. If McNair's groin injury persists or even if he has another bad game or two it might be worthy of reconsidering, but at this point McNair is a no-brainer over Boller.

They say the backup QB is always the most popular guy in town and this thread is proof that the cliche is alive and well.

Money post and from somebody who hasn't posted much or shown any bias in the Boller-McNair debate.

[ccbird]

OMG! I bet that if the Ravens had lost those games it would all be Boller's fault. You know it's true.

Respond to the stat I posted the other day that Boller has 7 wins in 36 starts against .500 or better teams and 2 on the road. McNair had 7 last year and 4 on the road in 16 starts.


How do you feel about this?? How do you feel about the fact that Boller rarely beats good teams??

[markakis4pres]

OMG are you really going to dismiss the fact that Boller had to take the team down the field no more than 35 yards each time and only threw the ball 2 in the Jets and Pitt games combined. Dude comes at you with facts about the "game winning" drives and you dismiss them.

The bottom line is he gave them a chance to win whether he had to drive 35 yards or the whole field.

Boller has been great this year and you cant take that away from him, until he screws up this year you should lighten up on the Boller Bashing because he doesnt deserve it.

[Dipper9]

Respond to the stat I posted the other day that Boller has 7 wins in 36 starts against .500 or better teams and 2 on the road. McNair had 7 last year and 4 on the road in 16 starts.


How do you feel about this?? How do you feel about the fact that Boller rarely beats good teams??

Taken in a vacuum your statement makes it clearly obvious that McNair is better. The problem is YOU are forgetting that Boller was a rookie who was thrown into the Lion's den on a team that was supposed to be a SuperBowl contender. Name me some other successful QB's who have been put in that position and who have succeeded. It would be the equivalent of Wieters getting the starting nod at catcher next year, batting .190, and everybody bashing him for being awful. Football QBs need to be on the sidelines for a year at least, maybe more. Boller never got that opportunity, and yet people expected him to be Johnny U immediately. Tony Romo sat on the Cowboys sideline for three years before finally getting a chance last year. Result? Second highest passer rating in the league nehind Brady and lighting the place on fire! Boller never got a chance to progress like he should have, like 'successful" QB's need to. Blame it on Billick. Blame the FO. NO...its all Boller's fault.:rolleyes:

[tywright]

Boller has STUNK it up when he starts against Cleveland on the road

[ccbird]

I have to agree here. Bottom line is: Boller did get the job done. His detractors would like you to believe he can't do it, but he has, more than once. And if he wouldn't have done it, ESPECIALLY with a short field, his detractors would be all over him.

The guy is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't at this point.

So Boller has 4 now in 5 years and McNair had 3 last year alone.

Anything , anything you Boller lovers can throw out there McNair has already done and done more efficiently or better in a lot less games in Baltimore.

It comes down to the fact, the simple fact that McNair is a winner and has always been a winner in this league. It may not look pretty, he may piss you off by the way he walks to the line of scrimmage or looks on the sideline but the man gets the job done.

[Hank Scorpio]

He hit his head with his forearm...It was an obvious penalty that will always be called.

Guys on the Ravens call that a "Demps."

Ol' kung fu Willy was famous for the flying burrito. Which is why he dislocated the elbow against us in the preseason.

Ouch!!!

[BaltimoreTerp]

So Boller has 4 now in 5 years and McNair had 3 last year alone.

Anything , anything you Boller lovers can throw out there McNair has already done and done more efficiently or better in a lot less games in Baltimore.

It comes down to the fact, the simple fact that McNair is a winner and has always been a winner in this league. It may not look pretty, he may piss you off by the way he walks to the line of scrimmage or looks on the sideline but the man gets the job done.

Tell that to the Colts.

[Sports Guy]

Boller is now 19-16 as a starter and has come in and played the majority of 2 other games(last year..not sure if he has before) and won and led us yesterday.

[Hank Scorpio]

So Boller has 4 now in 5 years and McNair had 3 last year alone.

Anything , anything you Boller lovers can throw out there McNair has already done and done more efficiently or better in a lot less games in Baltimore.

It comes down to the fact, the simple fact that McNair is a winner and has always been a winner in this league. It may not look pretty, he may piss you off by the way he walks to the line of scrimmage or looks on the sideline but the man gets the job done.

We are very lucky that we have two competent quarterbacks. MANY teams don't.

Imagine if Peyton Manning was significantly injured. What about Drew Brees? Tom Brady? McNabb? Palmer?

Rex Grossman? :D :D :D :D :D

[NewMarketSean]

No one is trying to say that Boller has or is or will be a better QB than McNair has been over his career. McNair is an MVP who has been to the SB. Boller can't come close to that. It's a no-brainer. But right now, at this point in their respective careers, I think Boller is the better QB. I think that McNair still deserves the job, so I am not debating that either. All I am saying is that Boller is not as bad as people make him out to be and has never been given a legit shot to succeed with the supporting cast he was given. And whats even funnier is listening to people continue to bash Boller even while he improves drastically over his past performance and actively helps the team wins games.

It's as if people have made up their minds about him during the first 2 years he played in the league and anything he does beyond that won't change their mind.

[ccbird]

Taken in a vacuum your statement makes it clearly obvious that McNair is better. The problem is YOU are forgetting that Boller was a rookie who was thrown into the Lion's den on a team that was supposed to be a SuperBowl contender. Name me some other successful QB's who have been put in that position and who have succeeded. It would be the equivalent of Wieters getting the starting nod at catcher next year, batting .190, and everybody bashing him for being awful. Football QBs need to be on the sidelines for a year at least, maybe more. Boller never got that opportunity, and yet people expected him to be Johnny U immediately. Tony Romo sat on the Cowboys sideline for three years before finally getting a chance last year. Result? Second highest passer rating in the league nehind Brady and lighting the place on fire! Boller never got a chance to progress like he should have, like 'successful" QB's need to. Blame it on Billick. Blame the FO. NO...its all Boller's fault.:rolleyes:

He doesn't beat good teams. Facts are facts right. I mean it doesn't matter how he led those teams to game winning drives, the bottom line is he got the job done. That's what I heard earlier in this thread. I think I'll use it here. Bottom line is he rarely beats good teams.


At this point one part of me just wants Boller to be the starter the rest of the year just so I can say I told you so. But then after he goes about 6-7 or 5 -8 everybody will have another excuse. Oh, the D just wasn't as good this year or he had to beat too many good teams. For every complaint, the Boller huggers have an excuse.

[section34]

Man...it was one horrendous game for McNair. He had himself a fine game yesterday.

The events of the last three weeks have done nothing to refute the cliche about the #2 quarterback being the most popular guy in town. What Kyle's done this season is perform his job masterfully. That is, the job of the backup quarterback. He stepped in to replace the starter and did everything that was asked of him.

I've seen some people justify their desire for a change by citing the last two games from last season and this year's Cincinatti game. I haven't seen or heard one person do so while also acknowledging how McNair almost singlehandedly engineered four or five gutsy wins last season.

Replacing Steve McNair with Kyle Boller is nothing short of knee-jerk. This could come back to bite me, but I think when you step back and look at the big picture there's no question that McNair's the best man for the job. I'm not trying to take anything away from Boller. While sometimes his presence, value, and impact aren't getting the credit they deserve, it all certainly falls short of starting over McNair at this point. If McNair's groin injury persists or even if he has another bad game or two it might be worthy of reconsidering, but at this point McNair is a no-brainer over Boller.

They say the backup QB is always the most popular guy in town and this thread is proof that the cliche is alive and well.
McNair's got a good shot at the hall but he is old and detoriating. Last year he was adequate/solid. This year, he's worse. He's hurt, sloppy, and his arm is not any stronger than last year. He has 1 int and 4 lost fumbles in 6 qtrs this year and could easily have a couple more fumbles with how sloppy he holds the ball under pressure. That's horrendous. We're better off with Boller from what I've seen so far. Boller has looked good last year and so far this year. He's calmed down, is more comfortable, and has a strong arm. Let him start and I believe he'll improve even more. Maybe Boller won't be very good but I can't watch McNair fumble and be so careless with the ball anymore. He still is very accurate on short passes as long as he isn't under pressure but put pressure on him and he gets careless plus he can't throw downfield.

[ccbird]

No one is trying to say that Boller has or is or will be a better QB than McNair has been over his career. McNair is an MVP who has been to the SB. Boller can't come close to that. It's a no-brainer. But right now, at this point in their respective careers, I think Boller is the better QB. I think that McNair still deserves the job, so I am not debating that either. All I am saying is that Boller is not as bad as people make him out to be and has never been given a legit shot to succeed with the supporting cast he was given. And whats even funnier is listening to people continue to bash Boller even while he improves drastically over his past performance and actively helps the team wins games.

It's as if people have made up their minds about him during the first 2 years he played in the league and anything he does beyond that won't change their mind.

Im not trying to debate careers. I just said that McNair last year in first year with Baltimore, the 33 year old version coming off of shoulder surgury and learning a new system beat 7 teams of .500 or better and 4 on the road. That was better than what Boller did for 3 years and 36 starts. And please don't try to make it sound like Boller had no supporting cast. He has always had a top defense and had a better running game in his 3 years than McNair had last year. I'm not going to debate again the supporting casts for the two I only want it noted that Boller was QB for teams that had good talent.


Explain to me now why you believe Boller is the better QB?? What does he do that McNair doesn't do?? Explain to me what you expect out of your QB, the qualities and skills and then compare Boller and McNair for me.


Finally the last part of your post. I disagree about any drastic improvement in Boller. I don't see any improved accuracy. I don't see any improved pocket pressence and ability to progress through reads.

Now, actively helping the team win I'll agree with 100% and I'm glad he has been ready to step in and perform the last 3 weeks and do a good job. I have stated it numerous times that I am happy with him as our backup QB. With him knowing our system and his overall ability he is probably the best guy we could have as our backup.

[NewMarketSean]

He doesn't beat good teams. Facts are facts right. I mean it doesn't matter how he led those teams to game winning drives, the bottom line is he got the job done. That's what I heard earlier in this thread. I think I'll use it here. Bottom line is he rarely beats good teams.


At this point one part of me just wants Boller to be the starter the rest of the year just so I can say I told you so. But then after he goes about 6-7 or 5 -8 everybody will have another excuse. Oh, the D just wasn't as good this year or he had to beat too many good teams. For every complaint, the Boller huggers have an excuse.

He hasn't beaten them in the past, correct. But Boller has improved, that can't be argued. Who knows how he will perform in the future against better teams.

[NewMarketSean]

Im not trying to debate careers. I just said that McNair last year in first year with Baltimore, the 33 year old version coming off of shoulder surgury and learning a new system beat 7 teams of .500 or better and 4 on the road. That was better than what Boller did for 3 years and 36 starts. And please don't try to make it sound like Boller had no supporting cast. He has always had a top defense and had a better running game in his 3 years than McNair had last year. I'm not going to debate again the supporting casts for the two I only want it noted that Boller was QB for teams that had good talent.


Explain to me now why you believe Boller is the better QB?? What does he do that McNair doesn't do?? Explain to me what you expect out of your QB, the qualities and skills and then compare Boller and McNair for me.

In this offense, I think they are very similar QB's. I do believe that Boller has the edge because he has a stronger arm and is more athletic at this point in their careers. He's also been MUCH better at protecting the ball than McNair.



Finally the last part of your post. I disagree about any drastic improvement in Boller. I don't see any improved accuracy. I don't see any improved pocket pressence and ability to progress through reads.

Are you even watching the games? It's pretty hard to say what you just said if you have been watching.


Now, actively helping the team win I'll agree with 100% and I'm glad he has been ready to step in and perform the last 3 weeks and do a good job. I have stated it numerous times that I am happy with him as our backup QB. With him knowing our system and his overall ability he is probably the best guy we could have as our backup.

Can't disagree with anything here.

[The Wedge]

Finally the last part of your post. I disagree about any drastic improvement in Boller. I don't see any improved accuracy. I don't see any improved pocket pressence and ability to progress through reads.

.

In what we've seen of him this season he's done the following things that show progression to me:
1) When checking off routes he's more measured, letting the play develop.
2) Stands in the pocket much longer before getting antsy.
3) Throws the ball away instead of forcing it in to coverage.
4) To the best of my knowledge and observation, isn't staring receivers down anymore.

His downfield accuracy is still shaky, but at least he can get it downfield sometimes to keep the defense honest.

Im with NMS in the sense that I don't think McNair is done done, but I do think he's showing signs of being on the downward slope, and I really don't like his cavalier approach lately.

["Clank"]

Think about this-the only times we are going to see Boller start this year is whenever McNair is injured. That means Troy Smith becomes the back-up. I think he has more talent then either of those two. I just hope he has learned sufficiently to step in successfully when needed. If we see alot of Troy Smith this year, we will be in alot of trouble. I hope we only see him in blow-outs, (in our favor, of course).

[ScottieBaseball]

McNair's got a good shot at the hall but he is old and detoriating. Last year he was adequate/solid. This year, he's worse. He's hurt, sloppy, and his arm is not any stronger than last year. He has 1 int and 4 lost fumbles in 6 qtrs this year and could easily have a couple more fumbles with how sloppy he holds the ball under pressure. That's horrendous. We're better off with Boller from what I've seen so far. Boller has looked good last year and so far this year. He's calmed down, is more comfortable, and has a strong arm. Let him start and I believe he'll improve even more. Maybe Boller won't be very good but I can't watch McNair fumble and be so careless with the ball anymore. He still is very accurate on short passes as long as he isn't under pressure but put pressure on him and he gets careless plus he can't throw downfield.

I think the key here is that it turned out McNair was nursing a bum groin. As far as his 5 turnovers in 6 quarters...it's a small sample size. ;) I think once he heals he'll be as productive as he was in the first half of yesterday's game.

I didn't mean to take anything away from Boller. I agree...he's calmed down a TON. Most of his success this season came as he entered the game as the 2nd quarterback. That is, the opposing defense spent the week preparing for McNair. It makes a difference, especially with such a capable backup like Boller.

I think you need to give McNair the chance to prove himself to be the most capable leader on this team.

[ccbird]

In what we've seen of him this season he's done the following things that show progression to me:
1) When checking off routes he's more measured, letting the play develop.
2) Stands in the pocket much longer before getting antsy.
3) Throws the ball away instead of forcing it in to coverage.
4) To the best of my knowledge and observation, isn't staring receivers down anymore.

His downfield accuracy is still shaky, but at least he can get it downfield sometimes to keep the defense honest.

Im with NMS in the sense that I don't think McNair is done done, but I do think he's showing signs of being on the downward slope, and I really don't like his cavalier approach lately.

-He does look more comfortable in the pocket in that he has slowed down. He used to do everything very quickly, in fast motion, and not really let things develop. He still backpeddles too much and doesn't stand tall in the pocket when pressure is coming nor does he step up into the pocket when the pressure is from the edge.

-He is better at looking off receivers. But here is one of my bigger complaints. He doesn't progress through his reads well. If his 1st option is there he is good and when it's not there he has improved at reading the coverage and not forcing the ball, however he doesn't progress through his other options. He'll either quickly dump it off or put his head down and take off. Now the overall speed and scrambling ability is an asset for him however he needs to keep his head up more and look downfield for receivers breaking off routes. A lot of the bigger plays in the NFL come from broken plays where the QB buys extra time. He has the ability to buy that extra time but if he doesn't keep his head up he is missing a chance for a potential big play.

- accuracy isn't good on the long ball as you noted but the other thing you noted that I disagree with is McNair's arm strenth. It is not nearly as bad as some of you make it out to be. He can still get the ball down the field. He did it at training camp when I saw him 3-4 times this summer. He isn't going to throw it as far or with as much zip as Boller but he does have enough to keep teams honest.


Has Boller improved parts of his game. Yes, but it isn't drastic. That to me is an insane comment. He still doesn't do enough of the things I look for in a successful QB. I think too many people are in love with his athleticism, which is very good. But that's not all there is to being a good QB. It's not even a top quality in a QB, it's more of an added bonus. Give me the smart, accurate QB that has a feel for the game and how to dissect and carve defenses.

[Tank]

I'm a Boller supporter, and I think KB is probably the better option at this point or at least AS good of an option. But if McNair is healthy and able to play like he did in the first half this week, I think you have to start him until he proves otherwise. At least for this year. He gives you the best chance to win at this point in time with his ability to avoid pressure. Boller is a great back up to have because if McNair isn't healthy he can come in and do a good job in there. Let him learn a little more under Steve and then next year (if not before then) he can become the starter. There are worse QB situations in the NFL...

[MPK76]

It looks like Billick will start McNair, but won't hesitate to pull him for Boller. If McNair is still favoring his groin, then Boller should be starting and McNair should be backing him up. There is no reason Billick should be starting a QB who, as of right now, can't make it through an entire game.


Ravens coach Brian Billick said he would continue to monitor starting quarterback Steve McNair and wouldn't rule out removing him for Kyle Boller late in a game again.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.ravensqbs25sep25,0,6585878.story

[biggsy]

Wow. The excuses keep coming.


Excuses ? As far as I'm concerned facts aren't excuses. You said he led them down the field in the closing minutes of those games and he didn't. Quincy Carter was the savior of the Jets in that game leading THEM down the field in the final 2 minutes to send the game to overtime. In OT he got the ball at the 32 yard line...THE 32 YARD LINE. He handed the ball off and watched Stover. Troy Smith could have been thet QB for that "drive". Hell, I could have been the QB for that drive. Again, in the Pitt. game He had no game tying or winning drive in regulation. Willie Parker was the last score with 10 minutes left. In OT once again he was given the ball at the 44. That means he had to get 10 frickin yards to get into field goal range. How is that a drive ? He went 2-4 on that drive for like 10 yards. He did next to nothing but watch Jamal and Taylor run into field goal range.
How are those "excuses" ? because I point out he did what any back-up or even 3rd string QB could have did in those situations ?

It's funny you Boller huggers say he won the ARI game. That makes me laugh, McNair gave way to a 23-6 lead and he gets no credit. It was all Boller. Funny, lets look at the bottom line like you people want to, McNair leaves with a 23-6 lead and Boller comes in and they eek out a 26-23 win, bottom line says Boller wasn't good enough to keep a 17 point lead. See how rediculious it is to look at only the result of the games ?


What do you people want from McNair ? He played great minus one mistake. He went 20-27 for 200+ yards and a TD. His first two drives contained 14 plays each and ate up 8 and 9 minutes . In the first half the TOP was like 25 minutes to 5 minutes and for the game he was 9-12 on first downs. How can you see those numbers and complain at all about McNair.

I'm beginning to question whether some of you know football at all. You DON'T have to throw 50 yards downfield. McNair is money on intermediate passes which is all you need to keep a defense honest. He ripped they're secondary apart, led long drives that led to points and kept the strength of the team off the field for long periods of time keeping them fresh. Boller comes in, takes up all of 1 minute on his first drive with 2 bad incompletions (his "improved" reading of defenses didn't serve him well with either one) and puts an obviously tired defense back on the field to chase Boldin and Fitzgerald around in less then 2 minutes at the end of the game. If you know football you know the best way to stop what the Cards. were doing is to keep them off the field all together. Boller didn't do that and look what happend. ARZ erased a 17 point lead in less then 15 minutes.

[NewMarketSean]

Excuses ? As far as I'm concerned facts aren't excuses. You said he led them down the field in the closing minutes of those games and he didn't. Quincy Carter was the savior of the Jets in that game leading THEM down the field in the final 2 minutes to send the game to overtime. In OT he got the ball at the 32 yard line...THE 32 YARD LINE. He handed the ball off and watched Stover. Troy Smith could have been thet QB for that "drive". Hell, I could have been the QB for that drive. Again, in the Pitt. game He had no game tying or winning drive in regulation.

OK, you got me. I thought that during his 200+ YDS, 2 TD, 0 INT performance which included leading the team back into the game during the second half included a late winning drive whether it was in regulation or overtime. Sorry.



Willie Parker was the last score with 10 minutes left. In OT once again he was given the ball at the 44. That means he had to get 10 frickin yards to get into field goal range. How is that a drive ? He went 2-4 on that drive for like 10 yards. He did next to nothing but watch Jamal and Taylor run into field goal range.

He needed 10 yards, he got 10 yards. Thats why I brought up "excuses."


How are those "excuses" ? because I point out he did what any back-up or even 3rd string QB could have did in those situations ?

Some people make him out to be worse than even that, so I think he deserves credit where credit is due.


It's funny you Boller huggers say he won the ARI game. That makes me laugh, McNair gave way to a 23-6 lead and he gets no credit. It was all Boller. Funny, lets look at the bottom line like you people want to, McNair leaves with a 23-6 lead and Boller comes in and they eek out a 26-23 win, bottom line says Boller wasn't good enough to keep a 17 point lead. See how rediculious it is to look at only the result of the games ?

The defense screwed the pooch. Whether it would have been McNair or Boller.



What do you people want from McNair ? He played great minus one mistake. He went 20-27 for 200+ yards and a TD. His first two drives contained 14 plays each and ate up 8 and 9 minutes . In the first half the TOP was like 25 minutes to 5 minutes and for the game he was 9-12 on first downs. How can you see those numbers and complain at all about McNair.

I'm beginning to question whether some of you know football at all. You DON'T have to throw 50 yards downfield. McNair is money on intermediate passes which is all you need to keep a defense honest. He ripped they're secondary apart, led long drives that led to points and kept the strength of the team off the field for long periods of time keeping them fresh. Boller comes in, takes up all of 1 minute on his first drive with 2 bad incompletions (his "improved" reading of defenses didn't serve him well with either one) and puts an obviously tired defense back on the field to chase Boldin and Fitzgerald around in less then 2 minutes at the end of the game. If you know football you know the best way to stop what the Cards. were doing is to keep them off the field all together. Boller didn't do that and look what happend. ARZ erased a 17 point lead in less then 15 minutes.

I like McNair. I want him to be the starter. Everything you said about him is true. What the problem is is that people want to crap all over Boller at the benefit of McNair.

[biggsy]

OK, you got me. I thought that during his 200+ YDS, 2 TD, 0 INT performance which included leading the team back into the game during the second half included a late winning drive whether it was in regulation or overtime. Sorry.

Yes, he had a good game. That wasn't the point you were bringing up. I simply said that (before this past week) I had never seen Boller lead a game winning or tying drive within the last 2 minutes. You in turn gave 3 examples of when he led said drives. I just pointed out that you were wrong in 2 of those examples. He didn't lead them down the field in the last 2 minutes and in OT in both games it was really the defense, special teams and RBs that deserve 99% of the credit to the 1% Boller deserves for not fumbling the ball away or throwing an INT.



He needed 10 yards, he got 10 yards. Thats why I brought up "excuses.".

And I simply stated that any QB in the league, backup or 3rd stringer could have done what he did. He did nothing in those games that you could use as evidence that he is better then McNair or even that great of a QB. Hell, in one of your examples Quincy frickin Carter led a game tying drive in the final minute of the game, do you think he too should be given the chance at the Ravens starting QB job with Boller and McNair ?



Some people make him out to be worse than even that, so I think he deserves credit where credit is due..

I give him credit when he plays well, for the most part he played well given the circumstances in the ARZ game and he played well in the NYJ game. In both games are there things I think McNair would have done better that Boller didn't do had McNair been in, yes. As I said, in the ARZ game McNair was dominating the clock and ripping the ARZ defense apart, why would it all of a sudden stop in the 4th quarter had he remained in the game ? Hence why I've said if McNair stays in there is no need for a game winning drive because McNair would have wasted the clock and gave ARZ less chances in the 4th quarter.



The defense screwed the pooch. Whether it would have been McNair or Boller..


Yes, the defense played like a high school football squad in the final quarter. But as I just stated, McNair was dominating the clock and T.O.P up to when he came out. Boller had 2 drives and only took up 5 minutes combined whereas McNair was converting 3rd downs and keeping drives alive and milking the clock. Had he stayed in its my opinion that ARZ doesn't sniff the 23 points the ended with.




I like McNair. I want him to be the starter. Everything you said about him is true. What the problem is is that people want to crap all over Boller at the benefit of McNair.


As I've said time and time again, I have no problem with Boller. I think he is a great back-up/spot starter. I just do not want to see him as the everyday starter, especially over McNair at this point. He has too many bad habits that just have not gone away. Everything from reading defenses pre snap to being way to erratic when pressure comes. In fact I haven't even mentioned the worst thing he does. He pats the ball. As a QB in the NFL that is one of the worst single things you can do. Patting the ball is known in football as a timing mechinism for QBs. Defensive players are taught this as soon as they hit college and are taught to look for it. And if they see it, it allows DBs and LBs to time his throws and make better breaks on balls.

[ccbird]

OK, you got me. I thought that during his 200+ YDS, 2 TD, 0 INT performance which included leading the team back into the game during the second half included a late winning drive whether it was in regulation or overtime. Sorry.




He needed 10 yards, he got 10 yards. Thats why I brought up "excuses."



Some people make him out to be worse than even that, so I think he deserves credit where credit is due.



The defense screwed the pooch. Whether it would have been McNair or Boller.




I like McNair. I want him to be the starter. Everything you said about him is true. What the problem is is that people want to crap all over Boller at the benefit of McNair.

And I am fine with Boller being the backup. What I have a problem is people making Kyle Boller out to be the better QB. Now that is their opinion and they have the right to feel that way but then they try to back it with statements that facts don't support.

Take for example the Boller opens up the field more, can keep Defenses honest and throw longer passes argument. Well yes he has a better arm however go look at YPA for each QB.

McNair and his noodle arm last year averaged 6.5 yards per throw. In Boller's best year as a starter he averaged 6.1 in '05.

This year McNair and apparently his even worse noodle for an arm has again a 6.5 average in 61 attempts. Mr. Boller 5.6 in 51 attempts.

It is great that Boller has a cannon but it hasn't ever produced big yardage receptions in his career. He simply struggles with accuracy on passes over 20 yards and Billick has in turn been more conservative when he is in the game and throwing the football. So the idea that this offense is just going to open up and we will have bigger plays with Boller has little support.