Bloody Weekend for top ranked teams... [Archive] - Page 2

geschinger

11-04-2007, 10:15 PM

So maybe South Florida isn't the next Miami afterall.

Ohio State vs LSU is what the title game would be now, I'm hoping and expecting LSU vs Oregon though. Sorry WVU fans, not looking good for their chances of playing for the title, 7th is a little too far out.

They've been hurt by injuries, but they sure have slipped looking more like the ACC version of the Miami program than the one that departed the BEast.

It doesn't look good for WVU, but if they win out they'll jump quite a bit in the computer polls and can make up a lot of ground. 2 of the three Big 12 teams won't be there at the end so they aren't in quite as bad of shape as it looks right now.

Birds of B'more

11-06-2007, 02:27 AM

They've been hurt by injuries, but they sure have slipped looking more like the ACC version of the Miami program than the one that departed the BEast.

It doesn't look good for WVU, but if they win out they'll jump quite a bit in the computer polls and can make up a lot of ground. 2 of the three Big 12 teams won't be there at the end so they aren't in quite as bad of shape as it looks right now.

Looking at the schedules, it would take an upset for either Oregon or LSU to lose another game........but 'tis the season for upsets. The three Big 12 teams could possibly do each another in, but I think Oklahoma will run the table and win Conf Champ game, but it won't be quite enough to leap LSU or Oregon. That would mean it comes down to OSU/Mich once again. It would be a shame if OSU escapes Michigan with a narrow win and goes to the NC game instead of Oregon after what the Ducks did in Ann Arbor, but that's the system we're stuck with. I'd personally like to see Oregon matched up against either Kansas or WV. They would need a bigger scoreboard to display all the points those teams would put up.

geschinger

11-06-2007, 01:38 PM

Looking at the schedules, it would take an upset for either Oregon or LSU to lose another game........but 'tis the season for upsets. The three Big 12 teams could possibly do each another in, but I think Oklahoma will run the table and win Conf Champ game, but it won't be quite enough to leap LSU or Oregon. That would mean it comes down to OSU/Mich once again. It would be a shame if OSU escapes Michigan with a narrow win and goes to the NC game instead of Oregon after what the Ducks did in Ann Arbor, but that's the system we're stuck with. I'd personally like to see Oregon matched up against either Kansas or WV. They would need a bigger scoreboard to display all the points those teams would put up.

If Michigan doesn't beat OSU, WVU's chances are essentially non-existant. But if they do they have a legitimate shot at getting into the top four with two of the teams in front of them having tough conference championship games.

LSU has been vulnerable outside of LA. It really depends on who comes out of the SEC East but if UF somehow does, they will beat LSU in the conf title game and UGA has a shot as well.

Oklahoma has shown this year that they are vulnerable and they have choked before in a conference title game everyone thought they should have won easily.

It's still highly unlikely, but not inconceivable that we could end up with a highly entertaining Oregon/WVU matchup.

Birds of B'more

11-06-2007, 03:36 PM

If Michigan doesn't beat OSU, WVU's chances are essentially non-existant. But if they do they have a legitimate shot at getting into the top four with two of the teams in front of them having tough conference championship games.

LSU has been vulnerable outside of LA. It really depends on who comes out of the SEC East but if UF somehow does, they will beat LSU in the conf title game and UGA has a shot as well.

Oklahoma has shown this year that they are vulnerable and they have choked before in a conference title game everyone thought they should have won easily.

It's still highly unlikely, but not inconceivable that we could end up with a highly entertaining Oregon/WVU matchup.

Actually, I don't have the standings in front of me but I think I heard that Tennessee is the team that controls their own destiny in the East right now. But they do have a huge game at Kentucky before they'd get to play in Atlanta. I haven't followed the Vols since watching Cal run circles around them in the season opener, but I don't see them beating LSU if that's the matchup. But I do think Florida would have a good chance of beating LSU.

geschinger

11-06-2007, 03:43 PM

Actually, I don't have the standings in front of me but I think I heard that Tennessee is the team that controls their own destiny in the East right now. But they do have a huge game at Kentucky before they'd get to play in Atlanta. I haven't followed the Vols since watching Cal run circles around them in the season opener, but I don't see them beating LSU if that's the matchup. But I do think Florida would have a good chance of beating LSU.

Tenn does control their own destiny and I agree. I don't give Tennessee much chance to beat LSU, I think UGA would have a shot and UF would likely beat 'em if they faced off in Atlanta.

mweb

11-06-2007, 07:55 PM

If Michigan doesn't beat OSU, WVU's chances are essentially non-existant. But if they do they have a legitimate shot at getting into the top four with two of the teams in front of them having tough conference championship games.

LSU has been vulnerable outside of LA. It really depends on who comes out of the SEC East but if UF somehow does, they will beat LSU in the conf title game and UGA has a shot as well.

Oklahoma has shown this year that they are vulnerable and they have choked before in a conference title game everyone thought they should have won easily.

It's still highly unlikely, but not inconceivable that we could end up with a highly entertaining Oregon/WVU matchup.

Whoever wins the Big 12 title game will probably finish ahead of WVU. Your team needs the Kansas/Missouri winner to lose to someone else before the Big 12 title game.

geschinger

11-06-2007, 08:04 PM

Whoever wins the Big 12 title game will probably finish ahead of WVU. Your team needs the Kansas/Missouri winner to lose to someone else before the Big 12 title game.

Yep, and it could be any one of the 3 B12 teams. An Oklahoma loss before the B12 title game followed by them winning the title game would work just as well.

mweb

11-06-2007, 08:06 PM

Yep, and it could be any one of the 3 B12 teams. An Oklahoma loss before the B12 title game followed by them winning the title game would work just as well.

Yeah, but I'm not seeing them losing any of their remaining games, you never know though.

geschinger

11-06-2007, 08:11 PM

Yeah, but I'm not seeing them losing any of their remaining games, then again with the way things have gone this year, you never know.

Noone would of thought they'd lose to a team like Colorodo and struggle against a team as bad as Iowa State.

I'm just hoping that if WVU isn't a victim losing one of those games they shouldn't lose. I think there is a real good shot that even if WVU doesn't luck into Glendale they might have a shot at the matchup I want to see against Oregon in the Rose Bowl. That would end up being a lot more entertaining than watching OSU getting destroyed again by an SEC team.

Birds of B'more

11-06-2007, 09:30 PM

Noone would of thought they'd lose to a team like Colorodo and struggle against a team as bad as Iowa State.

I'm just hoping that if WVU isn't a victim losing one of those games they shouldn't lose. I think there is a real good shot that even if WVU doesn't luck into Glendale they might have a shot at the matchup I want to see against Oregon in the Rose Bowl. That would end up being a lot more entertaining than watching OSU getting destroyed again by an SEC team.

The Fiesta Bowl? I'm sure you meant the BCS Championship Game, which will be played in New Orleans on Jan 7.

geschinger

11-06-2007, 09:41 PM

The Fiesta Bowl? I'm sure you meant the BCS Championship Game, which will be played in New Orleans on Jan 7.

Heh, I'm confusing the National Title game w/the Colts upcoming trip to Glendale. ;)

Sports Guy

11-10-2007, 07:47 PM

geschinger

11-10-2007, 07:53 PM

Well, as many of us thought, Ohio St lost although we did think it would be next week.

LSU vs Oregon is your national title game as of now...LSU should have no problem running out their schedule until the SEC title game.

Oregon has a tougher road but should win out.

But here is the question, say they both win out but so does Kansas...That would mean Kansas beats Ok St, Mizzou and probably Oklahoma...If they did that, they should play for the NC IMO.

I agree about LSU/Oregon. Tennesse took care of business today. They should win out which makes life much easier for LSU. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Kansas won out but I think it's highly unlikely. They will be the next team to get exposed.

beaner

11-10-2007, 09:31 PM

Well, as many of us thought, Ohio St lost although we did think it would be next week.

LSU vs Oregon is your national title game as of now...LSU should have no problem running out their schedule until the SEC title game.

Oregon has a tougher road but should win out.

But here is the question, say they both win out but so does Kansas...That would mean Kansas beats Ok St, Mizzou and probably Oklahoma...If they did that, they should play for the NC IMO.

Kansas Loses tonight to Oklahoma State...Mark it down!

Sports Guy

11-10-2007, 10:14 PM

Kansas Loses tonight to Oklahoma State...Mark it down!

I think so too....But if they don't and do win out, they deserve to be in the NC game.

beaner

11-10-2007, 10:44 PM

I think so too....But if they don't and do win out, they deserve to be in the NC game.

Yea, they'd be the best undefeated team at that point, so it's hard to disagree. I can't see them beating Oklahoma though. What a crazy season. We should have seen this coming in August with App. State.

Sports Guy

11-10-2007, 11:27 PM

Well, Kansas is up by 19 in the 3rd quarter.

OSU has a chance but you have to think Kansas hangs on.

Missouri is at home...Could be very interesting.

beaner

11-10-2007, 11:33 PM

Well, Kansas is up by 19 in the 3rd quarter.

OSU has a chance but you have to think Kansas hangs on.

Missouri is at home...Could be very interesting.

I'm surprised..And impressed. Maybe they are for real. I've been far more impressed with Missouri than KU, although to be fair I've seen Mizzou three times as opposed to one half of Kansas. I still think Oklahoma ends up with the BCS berth out of the Big 12.

BaltimoreTerp

11-11-2007, 04:00 AM

I'm rooting for a Kansas-Hawaii national championship, just to hear the sounds of the BCS people putting numerous bullets in their heads. That will be nice.

RShack

11-11-2007, 05:04 AM

I'm surprised..And impressed. Maybe they are for real.
Because they beat OK-St?

I've got nothing against KU, and I'm certainly happy for their fans. And I agree it's special to go 10-0. And I like underdogs.

But come on. Of their 10 W's, how of those teams even have winning records? There's Central Michigan and A&M, and that's it. You know who Central Michigan wins against, and A&M is only 6-5 and about to get Fran fired. Some of the teams they beat are not only Nobody's but are Terrible Nobody's. Somehow, their schedule let them avoid both TX and OK. I think OK-St is the best team they've played, and that ain't saying much. I think the chances of them getting by both MO and OK are zilch. It would be a great thing for KU fans, but I don't think there's a chance in hell it happens.

If they somehow do it, they will deserve credit for an amazing feat. But then LSU or Oregon will clean their clock.

ps: Brand new granddaughter-baby came home from the hospital on the Saturday when Oregon beat SC. I was holding her right when the SC guy got intercepted and the Oregon guy made a good runback. She chose the precise moment when he caught the ball to make her first non-crying sound. It was sort of a cross between an excited squeak and and a happy squawk. Her parents were in the next room and heard it, and came running in "What did she say?!? What did she say!?!" I've got 'em about convinced that her first-ever word was "Ducks!" ;-)

beaner

11-11-2007, 10:38 AM

Because they beat OK-St?

I've got nothing against KU, and I'm certainly happy for their fans. And I agree it's special to go 10-0. And I like underdogs.

But come on. Of their 10 W's, how of those teams even have winning records? There's Central Michigan and A&M, and that's it. You know who Central Michigan wins against, and A&M is only 6-5 and about to get Fran fired. Some of the teams they beat are not only Nobody's but are Terrible Nobody's. Somehow, their schedule let them avoid both TX and OK. I think OK-St is the best team they've played, and that ain't saying much. I think the chances of them getting by both MO and OK are zilch. It would be a great thing for KU fans, but I don't think there's a chance in hell it happens.

If they somehow do it, they will deserve credit for an amazing feat. But then LSU or Oregon will clean their clock.

ps: Brand new granddaughter-baby came home from the hospital on the Saturday when Oregon beat SC. I was holding her right when the SC guy got intercepted and the Oregon guy made a good runback. She chose the precise moment when he caught the ball to make her first non-crying sound. It was sort of a cross between an excited squeak and and a happy squawk. Her parents were in the next room and heard it, and came running in "What did she say?!? What did she say!?!" I've got 'em about convinced that her first-ever word was "Ducks!" ;-)

Not so much that they beat Ok St, but the way they did it. Pretty handily, on the road when Oklahoma State needed to win to become bowl eligible.

Congrats on the baby!!!!

Sports Guy

11-11-2007, 11:11 AM

Because they beat OK-St?

I've got nothing against KU, and I'm certainly happy for their fans. And I agree it's special to go 10-0. And I like underdogs.

But come on. Of their 10 W's, how of those teams even have winning records? There's Central Michigan and A&M, and that's it. You know who Central Michigan wins against, and A&M is only 6-5 and about to get Fran fired. Some of the teams they beat are not only Nobody's but are Terrible Nobody's. Somehow, their schedule let them avoid both TX and OK. I think OK-St is the best team they've played, and that ain't saying much. I think the chances of them getting by both MO and OK are zilch. It would be a great thing for KU fans, but I don't think there's a chance in hell it happens.

If they somehow do it, they will deserve credit for an amazing feat. But then LSU or Oregon will clean their clock.

ps: Brand new granddaughter-baby came home from the hospital on the Saturday when Oregon beat SC. I was holding her right when the SC guy got intercepted and the Oregon guy made a good runback. She chose the precise moment when he caught the ball to make her first non-crying sound. It was sort of a cross between an excited squeak and and a happy squawk. Her parents were in the next room and heard it, and came running in "What did she say?!? What did she say!?!" I've got 'em about convinced that her first-ever word was "Ducks!" ;-)

Who had Ohio St beaten?

If Kansas beats 2 top 5 teams and goes undefeated in a major conference(a conference with 3 top 5 teams right now), they deserve to play for the NC.win

ledzepp8

11-11-2007, 11:46 AM

Who had Ohio St beaten?

If Kansas beats 2 top 5 teams and goes undefeated in a major conference(a conference with 3 top 5 teams right now), they deserve to play for the NC.win

And who thought Ohio St deserved to be #1 in everything? Besides idiot coaches, writers, Kirk Herbstreit, etc.

We could turn this all around and say that Mizzou and Oklahoma don't deserve to be ranked as high as they are. The hardest game Mizzou has had is Oklahoma and they lost. And the hardest game Oklahoma has had is against Texas who isn't even all that. Not that any of this really matters because I've come to the conclusion that I really couldn't care less as the whole BCS system is a popularity contest.

RShack

11-11-2007, 01:03 PM

Who had Ohio St beaten?
The Fly always called them "Ohowihateohio State" for a reason ;-)

If Kansas beats 2 top 5 teams and goes undefeated in a major conference(a conference with 3 top 5 teams right now), they deserve to play for the NC.win
Oh, given the goofy system we have, I completely agree with that. I just don't think there's a chance in hell that they get there. Or if they do, I think it says more about MO and OK being not much. And if they do get there, I think LSU (or Oregon) would take them apart, don't you?

ps: My historical loyalties are with the ACC. But living in SEC land, and living with the ACC's especially-stupid TV blackout policies (ACC motto: "Fans? Who needs fans?"), I'm v. impressed with what the SEC teams do to each other. It's a wonder to me that any SEC team ever gets a chance for the NC, simply because of what they have to go through.

Sports Guy

11-11-2007, 01:41 PM

The Fly always called them "Ohowihateohio State" for a reason ;-)

Oh, given the goofy system we have, I completely agree with that. I just don't think there's a chance in hell that they get there. Or if they do, I think it says more about MO and OK being not much. And if they do get there, I think LSU (or Oregon) would take them apart, don't you?

ps: My historical loyalties are with the ACC. But living in SEC land, and living with the ACC's especially-stupid TV blackout policies (ACC motto: "Fans? Who needs fans?"), I'm v. impressed with what the SEC teams do to each other. It's a wonder to me that any SEC team ever gets a chance for the NC, simply because of what they have to go through.
I think LSU would tear them up but I am not sure Oregon would.

ixcuincle

11-11-2007, 02:29 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankingsindex

LSU #1 , Oregon #2 , OU #3...I wouldn't object to an LSU - Oregon NC game.

BC #18...lol :D

RShack

11-11-2007, 02:33 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankingsindex

LSU #1 , Oregon #2 , OU #3...I wouldn't object to an LSU - Oregon NC game.
That's the game I want to see... (in addition to any games in which SC or OSU get beat ;-)

geschinger

11-11-2007, 02:46 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankingsindex

LSU #1 , Oregon #2 , OU #3...I wouldn't object to an LSU - Oregon NC game.

BC #18...lol :D

That's the game I'd want to see as well if WVU can't make the jump. I just hope it's not Oklahoma as I think they are overrated and would get beaten easily by either LSU or Oregon.

RShack

11-11-2007, 02:54 PM

I just hope it's not Oklahoma as I think they are overrated and would get beaten easily by either LSU or Oregon.
Well, there would be some redeeming value to that ;-)

Waste of a perfectly good title game though.

ps: I still have last year's OK-Boise State bowl game TIVO'd. Perhaps my all-time favorite football game.

pps: Do you think WVU could beat LSU? (I ain't poking at you, just wondering, that's all...)

beaner

11-11-2007, 03:09 PM

I think LSU and Oklahoma are clearly above the others. I think LSU will crush Oregon if it ends up being those two. They'll beat Oklahoma too, but that would be a better game.

mweb

11-11-2007, 03:22 PM

RShack

11-11-2007, 03:42 PM

Oregon is better than you guys are giving them credit for, they can beat LSU imo. I'm not even sure why LSU is getting so much love, they've lost to Kentucky and have been very close to losing 3 other games. Their good, but their not exactly a juggernaut.
I agree that Oregon is very good. I think their rep is hurt in some quarters by the whole "PAC-10 are wimps" thing. Fun QB too. I think OK is getting by in large part because of their legacy. As for LSU, I think part of what's going on is the usual thing: that the SEC is a meatgrinder. To me, it's a wonder that anybody gets out of the SEC with a NC chance.

beaner

11-11-2007, 04:04 PM

Oregon is better than you guys are giving them credit for, they can beat LSU imo. I'm not even sure why LSU is getting so much love, they've lost to Kentucky and have been very close to losing 3 other games. Their good, but their not exactly a juggernaut.

Look at the SEC, you play a potential major bowl team virutally every week. If an SEC team can survive that season and contend for a title, to me they are clear favorite for the title.

Nothing against Oregon, I've seen them a few times and they're very good. I just don't think they're in LSU's class.

mweb

11-11-2007, 04:22 PM

Look at the SEC, you play a potential major bowl team virutally every week. If an SEC team can survive that season and contend for a title, to me they are clear favorite for the title.

Nothing against Oregon, I've seen them a few times and they're very good. I just don't think they're in LSU's class.

The SEC is very good, but so is the PAC-10. And your comment about the SEC is a bit much imo, it's not that incredible. Oregon is certainly in Kentucky's, Auburn's, Alabama's, and Florida's class imo, and LSU had plenty of trouble against them.

RShack

11-11-2007, 04:22 PM

Nothing against Oregon, I've seen them a few times and they're very good. I just don't think they're in LSU's class.
At this point, I just hope we get a chance to find out...

beaner

11-11-2007, 04:27 PM

The SEC is very good, but so is the PAC-10. And your comment about the SEC is a bit much imo, it's not that incredible. Oregon is certainly in Kentucky's, Auburn's, Alabama's, and Florida's class imo, and LSU had plenty of trouble against them.

I'm just saying when you're playing the Auburns, Florida's, and Georgia's of the world week in and week out, it's very impressive to come out of that with one loss.

I don't mean to disrespect Oregon at all. I think their wins over USC and ASU were impressive, although I'd have like to have seen them win one big road game besides whovever was impersonating Michigan those first few weeks.

mweb

11-11-2007, 04:34 PM

I'm just saying when you're playing the Auburns, Florida's, and Georgia's of the world week in and week out, it's very impressive to come out of that with one loss.

I don't mean to disrespect Oregon at all. I think their wins over USC and ASU were impressive, although I'd have like to have seen them win one big road game besides whovever was impersonating Michigan those first few weeks.

They haven't played Georgia, and they've only beaten 2 teams that are currently ranked, both of those games were at home. I'll take Oregon's road domination of Michigan over LSU barely beating Alabama on the road. That's the only tough road game LSU has all season long besides at Kentucky, and we know what happened there.

LSU's schedule hasn't been as hard as your making it seem.

RShack

11-11-2007, 04:35 PM

The SEC is very good, but so is the PAC-10. And your comment about the SEC is a bit much imo, it's not that incredible. Oregon is certainly in Kentucky's, Auburn's, Alabama's, and Florida's class imo, and LSU had plenty of trouble against them.
I think LSU-Oregon is most likely to be a very good game. I would not expect either team to clobber the other one. However, if one team did clobber the other one, my guess would be that LSU would be the clobber-er and Oregon would be the clobber-ee. But I don't expect that would happen, I think it's much more likely to be a really, really good game.

beaner

11-11-2007, 04:46 PM

They haven't played Georgia, and they've only beaten 2 teams that are currently ranked, both of those games were at home. I'll take Oregon's road domination of Michigan over LSU barely beating Alabama on the road. That's the only tough road game LSU has all season long besides at Kentucky, and we know what happened there.

LSU's schedule hasn't been as hard as your making it seem.

Fair enough, but Oregon hasn't played any tough conference games on the road. If they beat UCLA next weekend, it'll be their only road win over a .500 team in the PAC 10. You gotta admit that playing USC, Cal, and Arizona State all at home was a pretty lucky break.

mweb

11-11-2007, 04:54 PM

Fair enough, but Oregon hasn't played any tough conference games on the road. If they beat UCLA next weekend, it'll be their only road win over a .500 team in the PAC 10. You gotta admit that playing USC, Cal, and Arizona State all at home was a pretty lucky break.

Of course that's a lucky break, but LSU has had most of their tough games at home as well. LSU does not have a better road win than Oregon, nor do they have a better home win. Oregon also doesn't have as many close calls in their wins.

geschinger

11-11-2007, 05:16 PM

I'm just saying when you're playing the Auburns, Florida's, and Georgia's of the world week in and week out, it's very impressive to come out of that with one loss.

I don't mean to disrespect Oregon at all. I think their wins over USC and ASU were impressive, although I'd have like to have seen them win one big road game besides whovever was impersonating Michigan those first few weeks.

It is impressive to come out of the SEC but life is easier for a team like LSU being in the weaker of the SEC divisions. They will likley w/the SEC without having to face the SEC's second best team this year.

geschinger

11-11-2007, 05:20 PM

They haven't played Georgia, and they've only beaten 2 teams that are currently ranked, both of those games were at home. I'll take Oregon's road domination of Michigan over LSU barely beating Alabama on the road. That's the only tough road game LSU has all season long besides at Kentucky, and we know what happened there.

LSU's schedule hasn't been as hard as your making it seem.

You have a good point, LSU hasn't been overly impressive outside of the state of Louisiana. If it was UF or GA and not Tennessee that made it out of the East I think they would have all they could handle in the SEC title game.

ledzepp8

11-11-2007, 06:25 PM

Oregon is better than you guys are giving them credit for, they can beat LSU imo. I'm not even sure why LSU is getting so much love, they've lost to Kentucky and have been very close to losing 3 other games. Their good, but their not exactly a juggernaut.

I think this post right here really illustrates how messed college football is. You can look at the top 5 or even top 10 teams in college football and I don't think you can say that one team, let alone two teams, is so obviously better than everyone else. Every team has their flaws. It just shows how ridiculous the FBS championship is.

RShack

11-11-2007, 07:03 PM

It just shows how ridiculous the FBS championship is.
Not to mention changing "Division 1" to "FBS".

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/FBS

My favorite is "Fetal Bovine Serum" ;-)

mweb

11-11-2007, 07:14 PM

ixcuincle

11-11-2007, 10:24 PM

Yes, there clearly should be a playoff imo, just comes down to how many teams should get in and how are they deciding which teams take part. I'd have the BCS determine which teams, but bring back point margin into the equation, however have a limit to the margin you get credit for to prevent too much running up the score. I think I would limit the playoffs to 6 teams, with the top 2 getting a bye. There's rarely more than 6 teams that have a legit case as a national title contender, and it's a low enough number to keep the importance of every game very high.

This idea sounds good to me , anyone under a #10 ranking shouldn't be in contention for a supposed playoff anyways.

The only problem is having Delany and the Rose bowl approve of a playoff , a 16 team is too much but 8 teams sounds right and no one would complain about academics.

Sports Guy

11-11-2007, 11:15 PM

Kansas is close to Oregon...Wins over Mizzou and Oklahoma would vault them over Oregon i think.

beaner

11-12-2007, 01:04 AM

Kansas is close to Oregon...Wins over Mizzou and Oklahoma would vault them over Oregon i think.

No way Kansas wins both of those games...

CrimsonTribe

11-12-2007, 11:20 AM

I think LSU-Oregon is most likely to be a very good game. I would not expect either team to clobber the other one. However, if one team did clobber the other one, my guess would be that LSU would be the clobber-er and Oregon would be the clobber-ee. But I don't expect that would happen, I think it's much more likely to be a really, really good game.

Being a big SEC fan, it's hard for me to say it, but I don't really have much faith in LSU handling Oregon (if they were to play). To me it's obvious that LSU has the most talent on the field by far, but their coaching is such a liability that they get dragged down into close games week after week after week. The overwhelming number of penalties, the way they shoot themselves in the foot, and the terrible strategic decision-making cause me to wince every time I see them play. Les Miles is playing with fire and he's not always going to be so fortunate to have his team's talent overcome his mistakes every week.

mweb

11-15-2007, 11:00 PM

Well it looks like Oregon is likely to lose as they're down 24-11 and without Dixon.

beaner

11-15-2007, 11:01 PM

Sports Guy

11-15-2007, 11:04 PM

Mweb beat me to it....Maybe Oregon can come back but that doesn't look good right now.

Sports Guy

11-15-2007, 11:06 PM

I still say LSU/Oklahoma for the title. Hopefully Oregon loses tonight, and Oklahoma I expect will run through Kansas or Mizzou for the Big 12. That's the best matchup in my opinion. As I type this, Arizona scores on another long play...

The best matchup is a healthy USC team versus LSU.

Would be great to still see that although I am not sure how USC can vault up that high.

beaner

11-15-2007, 11:09 PM

The best matchup is a healthy USC team versus LSU.

Would be great to still see that although I am not sure how USC can vault up that high.

Maybe, but as far as the teams left in contention, it's LSU/Oklahoma..Oregon is much different on the road..And with Leaf, of course.

mweb

11-15-2007, 11:11 PM

Oregon vs LSU would have been the best matchup imo, but if Dixon is out long term, that's obviously not the case.

beaner

11-15-2007, 11:13 PM

Oregon vs LSU would have been the best matchup imo, but if Dixon is out long term, that's obviously not the case.

I wasn't sold on Oregon WITH Dixon, but it's clear they're not a contender without him.

mweb

11-15-2007, 11:16 PM

I wasn't sold on Oregon WITH Dixon, but it's clear they're not a contender without him.

Well your case was very questionable before, but yes, without arguably the best QB in college football, they aren't a contender.

beaner

11-15-2007, 11:20 PM

Well your case was very questionable before, but yes, without arguably the best QB in college football, they aren't a contender.

My biggest argument was that they hadn't played a decent team on the road...Tonight was a road game against an ok team, and they are getting killed. Two long bombs and a punt return. Dixon wouldn't have made any difference on those...Granted, with him they would have a chance to come back, and now probably not.

mweb

11-15-2007, 11:22 PM

My biggest argument was that they hadn't played a decent team on the road...Tonight was a road game against an ok team, and they are getting killed. Two long bombs and a punt return. Dixon wouldn't have made any difference on those...Granted, with him they would have a chance to come back, and now probably not.

Losing Dixon was like getting the wind knocked out of them though. And Michigan is certainly decent and a tough place to play. I don't think you can use tonight to justify your position considering the injury.

Who has Oklahoma beaten on the road? Colorado? Oh wait...:D . Yes they beat Texas, so one good road win, similiar to winning at Michigan imo. And LSU's only good road win is Alabama, who isn't that good, and they barely escaped with a win.

beaner

11-15-2007, 11:24 PM

Losing Dixon was like getting the wind knocked out of them though. And Michigan is certainly decent and a tough place to play. I don't think you can use tonight to justify your position considering the injury.

Agreed...It's not a fair assessment tonight due to the injury. I guess we'll never know unless the Ducks can come back. As for Michigan, obviously they were not the same as they are now, but certainly a good win for Oregon.

mweb

11-15-2007, 11:27 PM

Agreed...It's not a fair assessment tonight due to the injury. I guess we'll never know unless the Ducks can come back. As for Michigan, obviously they were not the same as they are now, but certainly a good win for Oregon.

I don't think Michigan is that different now, I just don't think they can handle Oregon's style of offense.

beaner

11-15-2007, 11:30 PM

I don't think Michigan is that different now, I just don't think they can handle Oregon's style of offense.

The Big Ten does suck, no question, but Michigan did turn it around after that game. I think Oregon would beat Michigan now on a neutral site..I think Oregon is a good team, but I just think Oklahoma would be a better matchup for LSU in the title game.

mweb

11-15-2007, 11:32 PM

The Big Ten does suck, no question, but Michigan did turn it around after that game. I think Oregon would beat Michigan now on a neutral site..I think Oregon is a good team, but I just think Oklahoma would be a better matchup for LSU in the title game.

That's fine, but you can't base that off the schedules the two teams have played imo. And I don't see how you can think there's as large of a difference between the two teams as you seem to think there is.

beaner

11-15-2007, 11:34 PM

That's fine, but you can't base that off the schedules the two teams have played imo. And I don't see how you can think there's as large of a difference between the two teams as you seem to think there is.

I don't think there's that large of a difference really...I just think Oklahoma would give LSU a better game, that's all.

longflyball

11-15-2007, 11:43 PM

Does anyone know why Oregon went for two after their first touchdown?

mweb

11-15-2007, 11:52 PM

I don't think there's that large of a difference really...I just think Oklahoma would give LSU a better game, that's all.

That's not what you said the other day, which is why we've been debating this.

beaner

11-15-2007, 11:57 PM

Look at the SEC, you play a potential major bowl team virutally every week. If an SEC team can survive that season and contend for a title, to me they are clear favorite for the title.

Nothing against Oregon, I've seen them a few times and they're very good. I just don't think they're in LSU's class.

That was the only thing i could find that i said regarding how I feel about Oregon..

mweb

11-16-2007, 12:00 AM

I think LSU and Oklahoma are clearly above the others. I think LSU will crush Oregon if it ends up being those two. They'll beat Oklahoma too, but that would be a better game.

Losing your memory.;)

beaner

11-16-2007, 12:02 AM

Losing your memory.;)

Maybe Crush is too strong a word. I just said Oklahoma would be a better game...Same thing I said tonight. I do think LSU will beat either team with ease.

mweb

11-16-2007, 12:05 AM

Maybe Crush is too strong a word. I just said Oklahoma would be a better game...Same thing I said tonight. I do think LSU will beat either team with ease.

I objected to the LSU and OK clearly being above the others comment as well. Which seems to be different than saying there's not that large of a difference.

beaner

11-16-2007, 12:08 AM

I objected to the LSU and OK clearly being above the others comment as well. Which seems to be different than saying there's not that large of a difference.

I think LSU is clearly above both..I do like Oklahoma better than Oregon, but I don't think it's that huge a difference...With Dixon, of course.

mweb

11-16-2007, 12:17 AM

I think LSU is clearly above both..I do like Oklahoma better than Oregon, but I don't think it's that huge a difference...With Dixon, of course.

Well you included OK with LSU before, and I'm not sure how you can be that impressed with what LSU has done since beating VaTech to say they are that great. But whatever, we've already gone over this.

beaner

11-16-2007, 12:25 AM

Well you included OK with LSU before, and I'm not sure how you can be that impressed with what LSU has done since beating VaTech to say they are that great. But whatever, we've already gone over this.

I respect the SEC more than any league in the country. LSU had some close games, no question, but they most likely will come out of the best conference in the country as the #1 team. That's plenty impressive. No denying that.

Sports Guy

11-16-2007, 12:26 AM

beaner

11-16-2007, 12:27 AM

I actually USC has a good chance of playing for the title.

I think Oklahoma will lose another game.

Mizzou and Kansas each lose one more game.

USC beats ASU, so that vaults them.

So, that leaves teams like Georgia and WVU, both of which could definitely lose between now and the end of the season.

I think LSU will play either WVU or USC for the title.

*This assumes Oregon loses tonight.

Who does Oklahoma lose to? Texas Tech? Offensively, they can score with anyone. I guess it wouldn't be that much of a shocker. I don't see it though. They already handled Mizzou pretty handily and I'm not sold on Kansas.

Sports Guy

11-16-2007, 12:30 AM

Who does Oklahoma lose to? Texas Tech? Offensively, they can score with anyone. I guess it wouldn't be that much of a shocker.

Oklahoma St, TT or the big 12 title game...They could easily lose any of those games.

mweb

11-16-2007, 12:34 AM

I respect the SEC more than any league in the country. LSU had some close games, no question, but they most likely will come out of the best conference in the country as the #1 team. That's plenty impressive. No denying that.

I don't think there's much of a difference between the SEC and PAC-10 this year, especially if you take out Georgia and Tennessee who LSU doesn't play in the regular season.

Sports Guy

11-16-2007, 12:35 AM

I don't think there's much of a difference between the SEC and PAC-10 this year, especially if you take out Georgia and Tennessee who LSU doesn't play in the regular season.

I agree...I actually think there is a better argument to be made for the Pac 10 being the best than their is for the SEC.

Of course, i say this not knowing OOC schedules or anything like that but the Pac 10 is loaded.

beaner

11-16-2007, 12:36 AM

I don't think there's much of a difference between the SEC and PAC-10 this year, especially if you take out Georgia and Tennessee who LSU doesn't play in the regular season.

To be fair, I don't watch enough PAC 10 Football to have a valid opinion. Since I repsect yours, I'll concede this one. Oregon may win tonight after all and we'll have Oregon/LSU.

mweb

11-16-2007, 12:37 AM

I actually USC has a good chance of playing for the title.

I think Oklahoma will lose another game.

Mizzou and Kansas each lose one more game.

USC beats ASU, so that vaults them.

So, that leaves teams like Georgia and WVU, both of which could definitely lose between now and the end of the season.

I think LSU will play either WVU or USC for the title.

*This assumes Oregon loses tonight.

I doubt all 3 of the Big 12 teams lose another game. The winner of the Kansas-Mizz game will likely play OK for the right to play for the national title imo.

Sports Guy

11-16-2007, 01:16 AM

Well, Oregon is coming back.....

geschinger

11-16-2007, 01:22 AM

I still say LSU/Oklahoma for the title. Hopefully Oregon loses tonight, and Oklahoma I expect will run through Kansas or Mizzou for the Big 12. That's the best matchup in my opinion. As I type this, Arizona scores on another long play...

I'm not sold on Oklahoma. They got a lot of mileage with the pollsters by blowing out Miami which has since been exposed as not being a good football team. If they make it to the title game, I have a feeling it will be very similar to last year with OU playing the role of OSU.

geschinger

11-16-2007, 01:24 AM

The best matchup is a healthy USC team versus LSU.

Would be great to still see that although I am not sure how USC can vault up that high.

The best matchup is clearly my preseason pick of WVU v LSU. ;)
It is still a remote possibility if Arizona can hold on although realistically I think it's more likely to be B12 vs LSU.

Sports Guy

11-16-2007, 01:29 AM

The best matchup is clearly my preseason pick of WVU v LSU. ;)
It is still a remote possibility if Arizona can hold on although realistically I think it's more likely to be B12 vs LSU.

Need Oklahoma to lose before the Big 12 title game...Mizzou/Kansas winner goes to title game and Oklahoma beats them.

That is the scenario that needs to play out in all likelihood.

Of course, other upsets could happen for each of these teams.

Sports Guy

11-16-2007, 01:29 AM

The best matchup is clearly my preseason pick of WVU v LSU. ;)
It is still a remote possibility if Arizona can hold on although realistically I think it's more likely to be B12 vs LSU.

WV has to beat Cinci first.

mweb

11-16-2007, 01:31 AM

WV has to beat Cinci first.

Which would be their first good win of the year.

beaner

11-16-2007, 01:37 AM

I'm not sold on Oklahoma. They got a lot of mileage with the pollsters by blowing out Miami which has since been exposed as not being a good football team. If they make it to the title game, I have a feeling it will be very similar to last year with OU playing the role of OSU.

They beat Texas and Missouri pretty handily too..

geschinger

11-16-2007, 01:51 AM

They beat Texas and Missouri pretty handily too..

OU was impressive against Missouri but just awful against a terrible Iowa State team a week later. I think Texas is overrated as well. Although I freely admit that the games I've seen may not be their best efforts. Texas won an exciting game against the same UCF team that USF beat by 50 a couple of weeks later. Texas has not been overly impressive in a lot of their other games IMO.

mweb

11-16-2007, 01:57 AM

They beat Texas and Missouri pretty handily too..

They won by 7 at Texas, the game was tied in the 4th. They were losing by 1 at home to Mizzou going into the 4th, where they really turned it on. So I'm basically saying your definition of pretty handily must be much different than mine.;)

Birds of B'more

11-16-2007, 02:12 AM

As disappointed as I am to see them lose, if Oregon had to rely so much on one single player (even a QB) to win for them, then they weren't a very good team to begin with. Frankly, I don't think anyone stands out this season and regardless of who backs into the NC game there will be questions surrounding who really deserved a chance. But if I had to guess at this point here are my BCS matchups.

Rose Bowl - Arizona St. vs. Ohio St.
Sugar Bowl - Georgia vs. Boise St.
Fiesta Bowl - Kansas vs. Oregon
Orange Bowl - Clemson vs. West Virginia
BCS Champ - LSU vs. Oklahoma

geschinger

11-16-2007, 02:19 AM

WV has to beat Cinci first.

Easier said than done. Cincinnati is a good football team that is capable of beating WVU if they don't play their 'A' game. What is crucial for WVU is to play their 'A' and try to score some style points as well. They need to make sure they stay above Missouri in the human polls and make up ground in the computer polls which they have a chance to do with two games in a row against teams that the computers have a lot more respect for than the humans do.

mweb

11-16-2007, 02:22 AM

Easier said than done. Cincinnati is a good football team that is capable of beating WVU if they don't play their 'A' game. What is crucial for WVU is to play their 'A' and try to score some style points as well. They need to make sure they stay above Missouri in the human polls and make up ground in the computer polls which they have a chance to do with two games in a row against teams that the computers have a lot more respect for than the humans do.

If Mizzou beats Kansas and Oklahoma, they'll finish ahead of WVU in the BCS regardless of what the Mountaineers do, and rightfully so imo.

geschinger

11-16-2007, 09:33 AM

If Mizzou beats Kansas and Oklahoma, they'll finish ahead of WVU in the BCS regardless of what the Mountaineers do, and rightfully so imo.

WVU could finish their season ahead of Mizzou in the BCS if they finish strong but I agree that it's likely that Mizzou might jump them by winning the B12 title game.

If WVU doesn't make the title game the second best scenario is for them to climb into the top 3 in the BCS rankings and possibly stay ahead of Mizzou in the AP poll. I do think that is possible and then hopefully Mizzou wins the BCS game in ugly fashion in the BCS game and WVU win impressively and maybe they AP National Championship love.

Of course its crazy to look ahead as they are perfectly capable of losing tommorrow night if they don't bring their game.

mweb

11-16-2007, 04:40 PM

WVU could finish their season ahead of Mizzou in the BCS if they finish strong but I agree that it's likely that Mizzou might jump them by winning the B12 title game.

If WVU doesn't make the title game the second best scenario is for them to climb into the top 3 in the BCS rankings and possibly stay ahead of Mizzou in the AP poll. I do think that is possible and then hopefully Mizzou wins the BCS game in ugly fashion in the BCS game and WVU win impressively and maybe they AP National Championship love.

Of course its crazy to look ahead as they are perfectly capable of losing tommorrow night if they don't bring their game.

Mizzou is already ahead of WVU in the BCS, so I don't see how it's possible for WVU to finish ahead of them if Mizzou wins out. Beating Kansas and OK would be better wins than anything WVU has on their resume. And if Mizzou wins out, I don't see how they wouldn't be ahead of WVU in the AP poll either. WVU needs LSU or all 3 of the Big 12 to lose to have a chance. And I think that's how it should be.

geschinger

11-16-2007, 05:05 PM

Mizzou is already ahead of WVU in the BCS, so I don't see how it's possible for WVU to finish ahead of them if Mizzou wins out. Beating Kansas and OK would be better wins than anything WVU has on their resume. And if Mizzou wins out, I don't see how they wouldn't be ahead of WVU in the AP poll either. WVU needs LSU or all 3 of the Big 12 to lose to have a chance. And I think that's how it should be.

WVU is #8 aggregated in the computer polls. Mizzou is #5. WVU will close that gap w/two games in a row against teams that the computer likes. If they get closer to Mizzou they will almost certainly pass them prior to the B12 title game unless the coaches/Harris pollsters put Mizzou ahead of WVU in their polls.

We'll have to disagree abot that is how it should be as I think no matter what happens the way things end up will not be how things should be. Hopefully this year where there are not a couple of clear cut teams above everyone else will push us a bit closer to the way things should be for the future - a playoff system.

mweb

11-16-2007, 05:10 PM

WVU is #8 aggregated in the computer polls. Mizzou is #5. WVU will close that gap w/two games in a row against teams that the computer likes. If they get closer to Mizzou they will almost certainly pass them prior to the B12 title game unless the coaches/Harris pollsters put Mizzou ahead of WVU in their polls.

We'll have to disagree abot that is how it should be as I think no matter what happens the way things end up will not be how things should be. Hopefully this year where there are not a couple of clear cut teams above everyone else will push us a bit closer to the way things should be for the future - a playoff system.

WVU might pass them after this week, but Mizzou would end the regular season(after big 12 title game) on top if they win out, their remaining wins would be much better than WVU's.

I meant that's the way it should be given the current system, Mizzou would have easily have the best 2 wins, and maybe the top 3 wins compared to WVU. Plus a much better loss.

geschinger

11-16-2007, 05:21 PM

WVU might pass them after this week, but Mizzou would end the regular season(after big 12 title game) on top if they win out, their remaining wins would be much better than WVU's.

I meant that's the way it should be given the current system, Mizzou would have easily have the best 2 wins, and maybe the top 3 wins compared to WVU. Plus a much better loss.

I agree that is probably how things will work out, but then again I think many thought Michigan deserved the chance to play OSU instead of Florida and we all know what happened there. When the system is based on subjectivity as much as the BCS is one never knows how things will play out. Who knows, maybe even OSU with their (lack of) schedule jumps into the fray if they beat Michigan impressively.

The best thing for College Football is for there to be another terrible BCS title game like last year where its clear to anyone and everyone that matchup we end up with was not a matchup of the two best teams in the country. The more often that happens and the more extreme the outcomes the more pressure on administrators to insitute a playoff.

geschinger

11-18-2007, 12:26 AM

Need Oklahoma to lose before the Big 12 title game...Mizzou/Kansas winner goes to title game and Oklahoma beats them.

That is the scenario that needs to play out in all likelihood.

Of course, other upsets could happen for each of these teams.

In this wacky year of college football I guess nothing should be unexpected. If Tech holds on the scenario you mentioned has a legitimate shot of happening. With the way things have been going this year, OSU might have as good a shot as anyone since they're done and have no other games where they can potentially be upset.

Birds of B'more

11-18-2007, 02:19 AM

But if I had to guess at this point here are my BCS matchups.

Rose Bowl - Arizona St. vs. Ohio St.
Sugar Bowl - Georgia vs. Boise St.
Fiesta Bowl - Kansas vs. Oregon
Orange Bowl - Clemson vs. West Virginia
BCS Champ - LSU vs. Oklahoma

Uh, Okay.....time for a revision. :o And probably not the last.

Rose Bowl - Arizona St. vs. Ohio St.
Sugar Bowl - Georgia vs. Boise St.
Fiesta Bowl - Missouri vs. USC
Orange Bowl - Virginia vs. West Virginia
BCS Champ - LSU vs. Kansas

Now that we know Dixon is out for the season, I think Oregon drops their finale to Oregon St. I think USC will go down to ASU on Thanksgiving, but they'll still get the BCS invite because.....well......because they're USC. Although the final slot could also go to the loser of Virginia/Virginia Tech, possibly Illinois, or West Virginia if Connecticut pulls an upset, but I doubt either scenario happens. The rule about no conference getting more than 2 teams into a BCS bowl kind of messes things up, otherwise Texas or Florida might have been a good bet.

beaner

11-18-2007, 10:19 AM

For my 20th (probably wrong) prediction...

LSU vs. Missouri for the title...

geschinger

11-18-2007, 10:40 AM

Sports Guy

11-18-2007, 11:04 AM

I'll stick with LSU vs WVU.

Even though I don't think much of Oklahoma they were missing Bradford last night and I would think he'd be able to play against Kansas or Missouri and lead Oklahoma to the B12 title.

I think you may end up being right.

WVU is not likely to lose at home to UCONN or Pitt.

The only question I have is does OSU leap over them with the win yesterday and if so, can they hold on?

I think the winner of next week's Mizzou/Kansas game will lose to Oklahoma as well.

The only thing is, WVU's weak schedule and how much will that hurt them? THat is, after all, pretty much the only reason they are going to play for the title...A weak schedule.

geschinger

11-18-2007, 11:27 AM

I think you may end up being right.

WVU is not likely to lose at home to UCONN or Pitt.

The only question I have is does OSU leap over them with the win yesterday and if so, can they hold on?

I think the winner of next week's Mizzou/Kansas game will lose to Oklahoma as well.

The only thing is, WVU's weak schedule and how much will that hurt them? THat is, after all, pretty much the only reason they are going to play for the title...A weak schedule.

I don't think OSU could leap and hold on. Although they are in a pretty good place not having to play anymore games since it seems like every week at least one or two top 5 teams gets upset. I know that UCONN & PITT are perfectly capable of knocking WVU out if they don't play well.

But with OSU, their schedule is as weak if not weaker than WVUs. IMO the team that could leapfrog their way into playing for a BCS title is ASU. It'll be interesting to see how things shake out but I am optimistic as at least in one of the computer polls (Sagarin) WVU went from 8th to 3rd. If they get similar bumps in the other computer polls they'll be in great shape as it's the computers that have been killing 'em.

ledzepp8

11-18-2007, 11:44 AM

Tank

11-18-2007, 12:36 PM

I'm rooting for a Kansas vs. West Virginia championship.

geschinger

11-18-2007, 09:19 PM

BCS Rankings are out...

1 LSU -> 0.9904
2 Kansas -> 0.9488
3 WVU -> 0.8878
4 Missouri -> 0.8707
5 Ohio State -> 0.8602
6 ASU -> 0.8019

As I was expecting and hoping, the computers are now showing a WVU the respect they deserve and they were able to jump to 3rd although I do think Missouri will jump them if they win out.

I'm not sure if OSU is close enough to leapfrog any of the teams ahead of 'em or not. I do think ASU has a great chance to leapfrog some teams if they beat USC as the computers have them even with WVU and OSU now. With a bump in the human polls they have potential to move up in the BCS.

beaner

11-18-2007, 10:44 PM

geschinger

11-18-2007, 11:43 PM

Did you order your Missouri Football T-shirt yet Gesh? If they beat Kansas you're looking pretty good.

I think what I really need is an Oklahoma t-shirt. I have a feeling that regardless of who wins the Kansas/Missouri game WVU's hopes will be riding on the Sooners winning the Big 12 title game. I see Missouri ahead of WVU if they beat Kansas.

beaner

11-19-2007, 12:01 AM

I think what I really need is an Oklahoma t-shirt. I have a feeling that regardless of who wins the Kansas/Missouri game WVU's hopes will be riding on the Sooners winning the Big 12 title game. I see Missouri ahead of WVU if they beat Kansas.

You're probably right considering the rankings. I think Oklahoma wins the Big 12, but then again I thought Michigan would win the National Championship.

Sports Guy

11-23-2007, 12:05 AM

geschinger

11-23-2007, 12:17 AM

USC easily handling ASU tonight....ASU is out of the running.

It will be interesting to see what happens if LSU loses the SEC championship, the winner of the Mizzou/KU game loses the Big 12 championship and if WVU gets upset in one of their last 2 games.

What kind of chaos would that unlikely but possible scenario cause??

If all that happened, it would almost certainly be Georgia vs OSU in the BCS title game. If a UGA loss to GTech is thrown into the equation all bets are off as any number of teams could back in.

mweb

11-23-2007, 05:24 PM

Still not seeing how LSU is so far above the rest. Losing to Arkansas 7-6 at the half at home, not impressive.

ledzepp8

11-23-2007, 05:44 PM

Still not seeing how LSU is so far above the rest. Losing to Arkansas 7-6 at the half at home, not impressive.

I agree. I don't necessarily have a problem with them being #1, but they definitely aren't the without a doubt best team in the country like some "analysts" and fans want you to believe.

RShack

11-23-2007, 05:45 PM

Still not seeing how LSU is so far above the rest. Losing to Arkansas 7-6 at the half at home, not impressive.
At least it makes the games worth watching. If they were thumping everybody 47-3, where's the fun in watching that? As it is, pretty much all their games are worth watching, 'cause you just never know...

If they were clobbering everybody, all that would mean is that they're playing ball someplace other than the SEC, that's all ;-)

ps: 14-6 Hogs with 9:49 left in the 3rd...

ledzepp8

11-23-2007, 05:53 PM

At least it makes the games worth watching. If they were thumping everybody 47-3, where's the fun in watching that? As it is, pretty much all their games are worth watching, 'cause you just never know...

If they were clobbering everybody, all that would mean is that they're playing ball someplace other than the SEC, that's all ;-)

ps: 14-6 Hogs with 9:49 left in the 3rd...Good point RShack. This is something that I don't get about college football. People claim that they would rather watch a close game than a blowout, but then teams get criticized in the rankings and BCS standings for lack of so called "style points".

mweb

11-23-2007, 05:57 PM

ledzepp8

11-23-2007, 06:03 PM

I don't see what wanting to watch a close game has to do with knocking teams for playing in close games. Entertainment value and objective analysis are two very different things.

People more or less want to see close games, but then the same people down teams for not blowing out their competition when it comes time to rank them. It's just kind of silly to me.

geschinger

11-23-2007, 06:03 PM

Good point RShack. This is something that I don't get about college football. People claim that they would rather watch a close game than a blowout, but then teams get criticized in the rankings and BCS standings for lack of so called "style points".

It's an unfortuante byproduct of a system where championships are decided as much by the subjective opinions of coaches, SIDs and writers rather than a system where championships are decided on the field.

ledzepp8

11-23-2007, 06:09 PM

It's an unfortuante byproduct of a system where championships are decided as much by the subjective opinions of coaches, SIDs and writers rather than a system where championships are decided on the field.

It's just really pretty stupid. LSU barely beats the majority of their opponents and it's because of the almighty SEC beating up on each other. WVU plays a couple of close conference games and it's because they are overrated.

RShack

11-23-2007, 06:09 PM

Good point RShack. This is something that I don't get about college football. People claim that they would rather watch a close game than a blowout, but then teams get criticized in the rankings and BCS standings for lack of so called "style points".
It's people watching the scoreboard instead of watching Actual Football, that's what I think. Between TIVO's and all the games you can get on TV if you want to, there's really no excuse anymore. I think a lot of it is people being lazy and/or worrying about the wrong stuff...

ps: 14-all, as of 7:47 left in the 3rd. No wait, now it's 21-14 Hogs, with 5:46 in the 3rd. Damn! Great run. Boy, I love SEC football, I don't care what anybody says. Meanwhile, they just showed the actual tiger, snoozing in the shade...

mweb

11-23-2007, 06:13 PM

People more or less want to see close games, but then the same people down teams for not blowing out their competition when it comes time to rank them. It's just kind of silly to me.

Well the #1 team in the nation should beat teams like Arkansas pretty easily, especially at home. I think a team that is easily beating their competition consistently is better than one that is usually barely winning their games, assuming similiar competition. So I'm not sure I get what the problem is here.

It's not like more games would be close if the ease of victory wasn't considered in the rankings.

RShack

11-23-2007, 06:25 PM

Well the #1 team in the nation should beat teams like Arkansas pretty easily, especially at home. I think a team that is easily beating their competition consistently is better than one that is usually barely winning their games, assuming similiar competition. So I'm not sure I get what the problem is here.
The problem is that Arkansas is better than maybe you think. They lost to Auburn by 2 and Bama by 3. They beat South Carolina and thumped both Mississippi's. They could easily be 9-2, and maybe even 10-1, depending. The only time they got kicked around bad was by Tennessee, and the Vols can beat anybody as long as the game doesn't really matter.

ps: Now it's 21-all, 2:22 left in the 3rd.

mweb

11-23-2007, 06:33 PM

The problem is that Arkansas is better than maybe you think. They lost to Auburn by 2 and Bama by 3. They beat South Carolina and thumped both Mississippi's. They could easily be 9-2, and maybe even 10-1, depending. The only time they got kicked around bad was by Tennessee, and the Vols can beat anybody as long as the game doesn't really matter.

ps: Now it's 21-all, 2:22 left in the 3rd.

Alabama and Auburn aren't anything special, especially 'Bama. Arkansas is a pretty good team, but the #1 team in the country should do better against them than they are, especially considering this is their last home game of the year, and is only one of two games needed to make the title game.

geschinger

11-23-2007, 06:38 PM

Alabama and Auburn aren't anything special, especially 'Bama. Arkansas is a pretty good team, but the #1 team in the country should do better against them than they are, especially considering this is their last home game of the year, and is only one of two games needed to make the title game.

In general, I agree with what you say here. But in this wackiest of years, it's an accomplishment for teams at the top of rankings simply to survive and win.

RShack

11-23-2007, 06:40 PM

Alabama and Auburn aren't anything special...
Depends a lot on when you're looking. They're certainly not consistent, that's for sure, we can all agree about that.

It sounds like you think I'm over-selling the SEC, while I think you're under-selling it. That's fine, that's part of what college ball is about. But, whatever anybody says, in the SEC you never know what's gonna happen. None of these guys are especially scared of each other... no matter what two teams you're talking about, a lot of them went to high school together, or played each other in high school, etc.

EDIT: after the score-a-thon in Q3, it's been 9 minutes of scoreless back-and-forth... then LSU puts up 6 with a perfect 54-yard pass play to Hester, but it got called back 'cause one of the receivers who didn't matter lined up in the wrong place... dumb jock...

ANOTHER EDIT: the combination of a cool gadget play (end-around reverse on an option play), followed soon thereafter by McFadden-being-McFadden, now it's 28-21 Hogs with 5 minutes left in the game.

ledzepp8

11-23-2007, 07:25 PM

How many sideline warnings does LSU get before getting penalized?:confused:

RShack

11-23-2007, 07:31 PM

How many sideline warnings does LSU get before getting penalized?:confused:
I don't care about that. What I wish they'd do is stop the new virus of this season, which is coaches calling TO's about a millisecond before the ball is snapped. Nothing against Nutt, it's smart... made LSU score TD's twice instead of once when it was their last gasp (4th down at the 2 with only 1 minute left)... but it just seems like a new BS aspect to the game that didn't used to happen...

Anyway, on to OT...

Sports Guy

11-23-2007, 08:06 PM

WOOHOO!!!

More BCS chaos.

McFadden is better than APete.

mweb

11-23-2007, 08:06 PM

There you go Gesh, Ledzep, and the rest of the WVU fans out there, they should control their own destiny now.

ledzepp8

11-23-2007, 08:07 PM

WooHoo!!! Take care of business WVU and we're in the title game!!!.:) :D

CrimsonTribe

11-23-2007, 08:08 PM

CrimsonTribe

11-23-2007, 08:09 PM

WOOHOO!!!

More BCS chaos.

McFadden is better than APete.

Totally and 100% agree and I'm pretty sure I've said that on here before.

CrimsonTribe

11-23-2007, 08:09 PM

This game also backs up what I said about Les Miles earlier. How terrible is he? I want to strangle him for wasting so much talent.

Sports Guy

11-23-2007, 08:10 PM

There you go Gesh, Ledzep, and the rest of the WVU fans out there, they should control their own destiny now.

Boo...I want more chaos!

OSU/USC title game. :D

geschinger

11-23-2007, 08:18 PM

My preseason BCS prediction died, was revived and now has died again but I couldn't be happier now that WVU should control their own destiny if there are no shenanigans from the coaches/SIDs.

But since we are in this season of the bizarre it means that WVU will probably lose to Pitt or UCONN.

geschinger

11-23-2007, 08:23 PM

Boo...I want more chaos!

OSU/USC title game. :D

Blasphemy! ;)

I'd be right there w/you hoping for more chaos if WVU wasn't where they are. Although even in this season of the bizarre I don't see there being anywhere near enough craziness to launch USC over all the teams ahead of 'em. IMO, LSU will be ranked higher than USC.

mweb

11-23-2007, 08:35 PM

Blasphemy! ;)

I'd be right there w/you hoping for more chaos if WVU wasn't where they are. Although even in this season of the bizarre I don't see there being anywhere near enough craziness to launch USC over all the teams ahead of 'em. IMO, LSU will be ranked higher than USC.

Maybe, but I think USC is better than LSU right now, might be better than everyone right now considering they've gotten pretty healthy.

Sports Guy

11-23-2007, 08:38 PM

Blasphemy! ;)

I'd be right there w/you hoping for more chaos if WVU wasn't where they are. Although even in this season of the bizarre I don't see there being anywhere near enough craziness to launch USC over all the teams ahead of 'em. IMO, LSU will be ranked higher than USC.

USC just crushed the #8 team on their field.....LSU just lost at home to an unranked team.

I think USC is ahead of them.

BTW, winner of KU/Mizzou loses to Oklahoma....WVU loses...VT loses.

I think that may be enough to vault USC to the title game.

mweb

11-23-2007, 08:40 PM

USC just crushed the #8 team on their field.....LSU just lost at home to an unranked team.

I think USC is ahead of them.

BTW, winner of KU/Mizzou loses to Oklahoma....WVU loses...VT loses.

I think that may be enough to vault USC to the title game.

That would probably lead to OSU vs Oklahoma/Georgia(if they win out).

geschinger

11-23-2007, 08:40 PM

Maybe, but I think USC is better than LSU right now, might be better than everyone right now considering they've gotten pretty healthy.

I agree that USC might be the better team but right now USC is moving up from 12 and LSU down from 1. Based on the average drop teams like OSU and Oklahoma received from losing I'd be surprised if USC is ahead of LSU on Sunday.

mweb

11-23-2007, 08:44 PM

I agree that USC might be the better team but right now USC is moving up from 12 and LSU down from 1. Based on the average drop teams like OSU and Oklahoma received from losing I'd be surprised if USC is ahead of LSU on Sunday.

USC is 11th. I can see USC being 7th and LSU 8th after this weekend.

Sports Guy

11-23-2007, 08:45 PM

That would probably lead to OSU vs Oklahoma/Georgia(if they win out).

I forgot about Georgia...Aren't they on the outside looking in terms of getting to the SEC championship right now?

OU is only one spot ahead of USC right now and that could change after this weekend, regardless of what OU does.

After UCLA beats Oregon this week, USC's win over UCLA will hold that much more weight(assuming both of these scenarios play out).

mweb

11-23-2007, 08:50 PM

I forgot about Georgia...Aren't they on the outside looking in terms of getting to the SEC championship right now?

OU is only one spot ahead of USC right now and that could change after this weekend, regardless of what OU does.

After UCLA beats Oregon this week, USC's win over UCLA will hold that much more weight(assuming both of these scenarios play out).

Good chance Tenn loses at Kentucky.

OU beating Kansas/Missouri would help them in the rankings much more than USC beating UCLA. I would put USC over of those teams, but I doubt the voters will.

ledzepp8

11-23-2007, 08:52 PM

But since we are in this season of the bizarre it means that WVU will probably lose to Pitt or UCONN.

They should be able to handle both pretty easily, but I get a similar feeling especially with how this season has gone. I also never imagined we could lose to USF last season.;)

geschinger

11-23-2007, 08:57 PM

USC is 11th. I can see USC being 7th and LSU 8th after this weekend.

They are 12th in both the human polls and the computer polls. They are 11th overall in the BCS due to some quirks - big differences between computers and polls of teams around 'em. LSU is coming from being ranked #1 in both human polls and the computer polls.

mweb

11-23-2007, 09:00 PM

They are 12th in both the human polls and the computer polls. They are 11th overall in the BCS due to some quirks - big differences between computers and polls of teams around 'em. LSU is coming from being ranked #1 in both human polls and the computer polls.

11th in the AP according to ESPN.

geschinger

11-23-2007, 09:01 PM

11th in the AP according to ESPN.

AP is meaningless in the BCS. They are 12 in the Harris poll and in the Coaches/SID poll.

mweb

11-23-2007, 09:14 PM

AP is meaningless in the BCS. They are 12 in the Harris poll and in the Coaches/SID poll.

Well it is a human poll.;) But Texas just lost, so they'll be above them for sure now.

RShack

11-23-2007, 11:18 PM

WOOHOO!!!

More BCS chaos.

McFadden is better than APete.
I hate to see the SEC wipe each other out but I fully expect it. I agree with your basic point.

To me, McFadden seems like APete but with a few more pounds on him... if he was playing at one of the more brand-name schools, he'd be getting crammed down our throats... since he's a Hog, not so much...

RShack

11-23-2007, 11:24 PM

My dad grew up in Grafton, 30 miles from Morgantown... that's where I went when I was a kid to visit relatives.... his closest living relative taught math at WVU for 30 years... so I have a built-in WVU sympathy... I was following you-know-who way before he turned the Seminoles into something...

But I'll believe it when I see it. Nothing against WVU... just talking about how the world works, and about all the various biases agin' them, that's all...

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 12:09 AM

I hate to see the SEC wipe each other out but I fully expect it. I agree with your basic point.

To me, McFadden seems like APete but with a few more pounds on him... if he was playing at one of the more brand-name schools, he'd be getting crammed down our throats... since he's a Hog, not so much...

I hate it as well, but I'm glad we don't have to put up with Les Miles and his "riverboat gambler" routine anymore. I just wish ESPN knew there was difference between gambling and being an idiot.

Sports Guy

11-24-2007, 12:30 AM

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 01:09 AM

If some of those 4th down calls went the other way, he would be pushed out of LSU to go to Michigan...Very lucky.

That TD pass to beat Auburn, while amazing, ranks right up there with the dumbest in-game decisions I have ever seen in any sport. Add his explanation to it and I'm amazed that Les can even feed himself.

longflyball

11-24-2007, 01:40 AM

I hate it as well, but I'm glad we don't have to put up with Les Miles and his "riverboat gambler" routine anymore. I just wish ESPN knew there was difference between gambling and being an idiot.

I can't comment on any of Miles' actual decisions this year, but I do know that, generally speaking, going for it on 4th down is rarely idiotic.

More football games are lost because of stupid punts and useless field goals than are lost because of stupid 4th down tries.

mweb

11-24-2007, 03:19 AM

That TD pass to beat Auburn, while amazing, ranks right up there with the dumbest in-game decisions I have ever seen in any sport. Add his explanation to it and I'm amazed that Les can even feed himself.

Actually, I think the play by play call of that moment is one of the worst I've ever heard, because there is absolutely no way the time would have ran out if that was an incompletion. Yet, they kept on saying it would have ran out.

RShack

11-24-2007, 03:29 AM

Actually, I think the play by play call of that moment is one of the worst I've ever heard, because there is absolutely no way the time would have ran out if that was an incompletion. Yet, they kept on saying it would have ran out.
That was my reaction too. I couldn't figure out what the TV guys were having such a major fit about. I agree that he cut it kinda close, as in needlessly close. But that's different than how the TV guys made it sound. They made it sound like he was playing Russian roulette. But he wasn't. He still would've had a shot for the FG. I don't know why the TV guys made the fuss they did. To me, it seemed like just another case of TV guys not even knowing basic stuff.

My only criticism of the coach about that particular play was that some combination of him-and-his-team made the time situation needlessly tight. I forget the details, but it seemed to me that they could've done what they did and have had maybe 8 seconds left instead of just 1 or 2 (or whatever it was) if the TD play didn't work.

mweb

11-24-2007, 03:33 AM

That was my reaction too. I couldn't figure out what the TV guys were having such a major fit about. I agree that he cut it kinda close, as in needlessly close. But that's different than how the TV guys made it sound. They made it sound like he was playing Russian roulette. But he wasn't. He still would've had a shot for the FG. I don't know why the TV guys made the fuss they did. To me, it seemed like just another case of TV guys not even knowing basic stuff.

My only criticism of the coach about that particular play was that some combination of him-and-his-team made the time situation needlessly tight. I forget the details, but it seemed to me that they could've done what they did and have had maybe 8 seconds left instead of just 1 or 2 (or whatever it was) if the TD play didn't work.

Yeah, I agree, it wasn't handled very well, should have had more time left, but if it wasn't caught, there would have been about 3-4 seconds left.

ledzepp8

11-24-2007, 11:03 AM

Yeah, I agree, it wasn't handled very well, should have had more time left, but if it wasn't caught, there would have been about 3-4 seconds left.

I'm not sure how you guys figure this when there was only 1 second left after he made the catch. If it was incomplete, the clock definitely would have ran out.

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 11:36 AM

Actually, I think the play by play call of that moment is one of the worst I've ever heard, because there is absolutely no way the time would have ran out if that was an incompletion. Yet, they kept on saying it would have ran out.

That's not true. I was watching it live, then watched it about 3 more times on Tivo b/c I couldn't believe my eyes. After the catch was made, there was 1 second left on the clock. It looked like he caught the ball w/ somewhere btw 2 and 3 seconds left and a second ticked off, but if there had been a juggle or tipped ball or anything, that game would have been over. It wasn't a gamble, but rather a stupid risk to take. Then his explanation afterward was that he had a timeout left and could have stopped the clock. First, you don't need a timeout to stop the clock after an incomplete pass and second, you can't stop the clock if there's no more time.

RShack

11-24-2007, 02:07 PM

That's not true. I was watching it live, then watched it about 3 more times on Tivo b/c I couldn't believe my eyes. After the catch was made, there was 1 second left on the clock. It looked like he caught the ball w/ somewhere btw 2 and 3 seconds left...
Right. So if had been your normal incomplete pass, then the clock would've stopped with 2 or 3 or more seconds left on it. (I agree that we can imagine some kind of bat-it-around scenario that might have used up the clock, but we can always imagine lotsa stuff that could possibly happen.) The most likely kind of incomplete leaves him with 2 or 3 or more seconds left. They prolly would've reviewed it to get the clock right. Prolly give him more than just 2 or 3, is the way I recall it. So, I still don't know what the TV guys were having a fit about. They were talking like the pass was his last play. Even with it was down to 1 second like it was after the TD (which it prolly would not have been with an incomplete), the guy still had a play left, but the TV guy was talking as if he didn't. They were talking like he threw for a TD *instead* of trying for a FG, and that's just not true. They were talking like 1 sec was not enough time for him to use a TO and get the kicker out there. That's complete BS, but that's exactly what the guy was saying. In fact, they tried for the TD knowing they had a play left to kick the FG if the TD play didn't work. As far as I could see, the whole "what a gamble!!!" thing was 100% an invention of the TV guy who just had a brain fart about the situation. Since when is having a second or three on the clock the same as game-over? It's not, never has been. People throw passes all the time as their last play before an end-of-game FG. People kick FG's all the time with practically no time left.

Now, I agree that it was dumb to screw around like they did right before the TD play. I forget the details, but I remember thinking at the time that they just painted themselves into a corner about the clock. I forget exactly how, but they screwed around and wasted several seconds for no good reason. That's what gives people a chance to point out that, if they batted the pass around for a couple seconds before they dropped it, then time would've run out. It was dumb to waste time like that. But, come on, you gotta admit that 2 or 3 seconds is a lot of time to go batting a pass around before you drop it. It doesn't sound like a lot of time, but for time-after-arrival on an incomplete pass, it really is.

EDIT: IIRC, it was really just 1 of the TV guys who was having the big fit about nothing. The other guy didn't say much. Eventually, he mumbled something trying to point it out, but I think he was kinda stunned by his partner. I figure he was sitting there thinking, "WTF are you talking about?"

mweb

11-24-2007, 02:17 PM

That's not true. I was watching it live, then watched it about 3 more times on Tivo b/c I couldn't believe my eyes. After the catch was made, there was 1 second left on the clock. It looked like he caught the ball w/ somewhere btw 2 and 3 seconds left and a second ticked off, but if there had been a juggle or tipped ball or anything, that game would have been over. It wasn't a gamble, but rather a stupid risk to take. Then his explanation afterward was that he had a timeout left and could have stopped the clock. First, you don't need a timeout to stop the clock after an incomplete pass and second, you can't stop the clock if there's no more time.

Well watch it again. When he caught it, there was at least 3 seconds left, it hit his hands with 4-5 seconds left, the guy operating the clock made it look much closer than it should have been. If it was incomplete, there would have been time left.

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 02:22 PM

Right. So if had been your normal incomplete pass, then the clock would've stopped with 2 or 3 seconds left on it. (I agree that we can imagine some kind of bat-it-around scenario that might have used up the clock, but we can always imagine lotsa stuff that could possibly happen.) The most likely kind of incomplete leaves him with 2 or 3 seconds left. So, I still don't know what the TV guys were having a fit about. They were talking like the pass was his last play. Even with it was down to 1 second like it was after the TD (which it prolly would not have been with an incomplete), the guy still had a play left, but the TV guy was talking as if he didn't. They were talking like he threw for a TD *instead* of trying for a FG, and that's just not true. He tried for the TD knowing he had a play left to kick the FG if the TD play didn't work.

Now, I agree that it was dumb to screw around like they did right before the TD play. I forget the details, but I remember thinking at the time that they just painted themselves into a corner about time. I forget exactly how, but they screwed around and wasted several seconds for no good reason.

I understand what you're saying, but it is pretty common to see 1-2 seconds tick off the clock at the conclusion of a play while the referees are making their ruling. It's not like the clock would have stopped exactly when the ball hit the ground on an incomplete pass, another second or two would have ticked off the clock just as it did when the catch was made.

Either way, 1-2 seconds is not nearly enough of a cushion to make that a justifiable call in my book. When weighing risks like that, you always have to take in the worst case scenario, like the ball being batted up into the air.

When the ball was snapped, there were about 8-9 seconds on the clock. It's not like they were taking a quick shot into the endzone from the 10. It was an arcing pass from the 23. To me, that's a ridiculous risk to take when you have a chance for a 40 yd field goal to win the game.

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 02:24 PM

Well watch it again. When he caught it, there was at least 3 seconds left, it hit his hands with 4-5 seconds left, the guy operating the clock made it look much closer than it should have been. If it was incomplete, there would have been time left.

I watched it 3-4 times right before typing that.

RShack

11-24-2007, 02:34 PM

I understand what you're saying, but it is pretty common to see 1-2 seconds tick off the clock at the conclusion of a play while the referees are making their ruling. It's not like the clock would have stopped exactly when the ball hit the ground on an incomplete pass, another second or two would have ticked off the clock just as it did when the catch was made.
But with something like that, they would've reviewed it to get the clock right.

Either way, 1-2 seconds is not nearly enough of a cushion to make that a justifiable call in my book. When weighing risks like that, you always have to take in the worst case scenario, like the ball being batted up into the air.
I agree that they screwed around and made it a lot closer than it had to be. I ain't disagreeing about that. But even with the screwing around, and even with the lobby pass, and even with an extra second or two going off the clock because of the catch, even with all that stuff, they *still* had time to kick the FG. And any time at all is enough to kick a FG, because they had a TO left. And the 1 TV idiot was talking like that wasn't true... but it was.

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 02:47 PM

But with something like that, they would've reviewed it to get the clock right.

That's a good point and I did think of that. But if that last second ticks off and there's pandemonium, who knows what happens. I mean, we are dealing w/ SEC refs here ;)

I agree that they screwed around and made it a lot closer than it had to be. I ain't disagreeing about that. But even with the screwing around, and even with the lobby pass, and even with an extra second or two going off the clock because of the catch, even with all that stuff, they *still* had time to kick the FG. And any time at all is enough to kick a FG, because they had a TO left. And the 1 TV idiot was talking like that wasn't true... but it was.

Well, I agree w/ the TV idiot so I must be one too :D They had plenty of time to run that play, but for some reason they let the clock tick down below 10 seconds. At some point, Miles has to realize that he's cutting it too close and call that last time out to avoid running the play w/ too little time left to take into account all of the reasonably possible outcomes. And it's not like they had a 50 yd field goal if it didn't work. They were looking at a very manageable 40 yarder, which means you should be taking less risk, not more.

mweb

11-24-2007, 05:05 PM

I watched it 3-4 times right before typing that.

Are you telling me that the ball did not hit the receiver's hands with 4 seconds left? That the play was not over with 3 seconds left? The time keeper let a couple extra seconds off the clock, and even with that, they still had that extra second left.

And like Rshack said, if the time keeper screwed up, they would have put time back on the clock. There is no doubt they would have been able to kick the FG.

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 05:28 PM

Are you telling me that the ball did not hit the receiver's hands with 4 seconds left? That the play was not over with 3 seconds left? The time keeper let a couple extra seconds off the clock, and even with that, they still had that extra second left.

And like Rshack said, if the time keeper screwed up, they would have put time back on the clock. There is no doubt they would have been able to kick the FG.

It looks like he catches it and hits the ground w/ about 3 seconds left on the clock. I said between 2-3 above b/c once the clock hits 3 I figure that there's actually between 2 and 3 seconds until the clock hits 2. Either way, another second or so runs off while the refs are making their call, which happens on any normal play.

If that ball is straight up incomplete without being tipped, yeah, there's going to be time on the clock most likely. But if that ball gets tipped or deflected by the defender, there's a good chance that another second or two ticks off. That's a contingency that has to be taken into account.

Maybe I'm just risk averse or something, but in that situation they had a 40 yd field goal to win it and Colt David is a good kicker. It's playing with fire to attempt some hot-shot type play to win the game when your margin of error is 1-2 seconds. To me, it goes from a smart gamble to downright lunacy, especially considering what was on the line for LSU. Luckily for Miles it worked, otherwise there would have been a roast on the bayou.

RShack

11-24-2007, 05:32 PM

Well, I agree w/ the TV idiot so I must be one too :D
No you don't ;-)

The TV idiot was saying that they had blown their chance to kick the FG, which they hadn't. The TV idiot was saying that 1-sec on the clock was not enough to kick the FG. It wasn't both TV guys, just the one. The other guy didn't say much for a while. Eventually, he tried to point it out, but it took him a while. I think he was stunned that his partner was being such a dope and getting all worked up about nothing.

I was stunned by it. At first, he had me second-guessing myself. At first, I was thinking, "What's going on here that I missed?" But then it became clear that it was just another case of a TV guy not understanding how football works. That's getting more-and-more usual, as best I can tell.

mweb

11-24-2007, 05:35 PM

It looks like he catches it and hits the ground w/ about 3 seconds left on the clock. I said between 2-3 above b/c once the clock hits 3 I figure that there's actually between 2 and 3 seconds until the clock hits 2. Either way, another second or so runs off while the refs are making their call, which happens on any normal play.

If that ball is straight up incomplete without being tipped, yeah, there's going to be time on the clock most likely. But if that ball gets tipped or deflected by the defender, there's a good chance that another second or two ticks off. That's a contingency that has to be taken into account.

Maybe I'm just risk averse or something, but in that situation they had a 40 yd field goal to win it and Colt David is a good kicker. It's playing with fire to attempt some hot-shot type play to win the game when your margin of error is 1-2 seconds. To me, it goes from a smart gamble to downright lunacy, especially considering what was on the line for LSU. Luckily for Miles it worked, otherwise there would have been a roast on the bayou.

The margin of error was more like 3 seconds, but whatever. There would have been no roast unless it was picked, because they still would have been able to kick the ball. Like I said before, they did waste too much time, they should have snapped that ball with more time on the clock, but a play like that is not going to take 9 seconds, so I don't see the risk other than the a possible INT.

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 06:02 PM

No you don't ;-)

The TV idiot was saying that they had blown their chance to kick the FG, which they hadn't. The TV idiot was saying that 1-sec on the clock was not enough to kick the FG. It wasn't both TV guys, just the one. The other guy didn't say much for a while. Eventually, he tried to point it out, but it took him a while. I think he was stunned that his partner was being such a dope and getting all worked up about nothing.

I was stunned by it. At first, he had me second-guessing myself. At first, I was thinking, "What's going on here that I missed?" But then it became clear that it was just another case of a TV guy not understanding how football works. That's getting more-and-more usual, as best I can tell.

Well if that's what he was saying, I agree, he is an idiot.

ledzepp8

11-24-2007, 06:20 PM

ledzepp8

11-24-2007, 06:23 PM

No you don't ;-)

The TV idiot was saying that they had blown their chance to kick the FG, which they hadn't. The TV idiot was saying that 1-sec on the clock was not enough to kick the FG. It wasn't both TV guys, just the one. The other guy didn't say much for a while. Eventually, he tried to point it out, but it took him a while. I think he was stunned that his partner was being such a dope and getting all worked up about nothing.

I was stunned by it. At first, he had me second-guessing myself. At first, I was thinking, "What's going on here that I missed?" But then it became clear that it was just another case of a TV guy not understanding how football works. That's getting more-and-more usual, as best I can tell.It was 1 second left after he caught the ball. His point was that if he drops it or it's overthrown that second is gone and the game is over.

mweb

11-24-2007, 06:28 PM

Well how come they didn't put time back on for Auburn?

Not sure what you're talking about, are you saying they should have made it 2-3 seconds instead of 1? That doesn't really matter much. If the ball hit the ground with time left, which it would have, they would have reviewed it to get it right if the time keeper screwed up.

Concerning your last post, there was 4 seconds when the WR got his hands on the ball, it doesn't take more time for him to drop it or for the ball to be overthrown, it probably takes less time considering the time keeper would have likely stopped it right when it hit the ground.

RShack

11-24-2007, 06:34 PM

Meanwhile, back in the present...

* Kentucky just did an amazing comeback and pushed Tennessee into OT...

* GT is within 2 of Georgia at the half. (They'd be up by a few, except the refs invented a pass-interference out of nothing, which led to 6 by the Bulldogs... but that's how it goes...)

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 06:37 PM

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 06:43 PM

Not to be a bitter Alabama fan, but based on the precedent set in the LSU/Alabama game that it is impossible to make a diving catch, that Tennessee TD catch should have been overturned.

OK, fine, I'm being a bitter Alabama fan.

longflyball

11-24-2007, 06:43 PM

When did the current college OT system come into being, and what was the prior system?

It is much better than sudden death, but I don't like how they start on the 25. They should start at midfield.

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 06:50 PM

Sweet Lord, is anyone else watching the Tennessee/Kentucky game?

RShack

11-24-2007, 06:57 PM

When did the current college OT system come into being, and what was the prior system?

It is much better than sudden death, but I don't like how they start on the 25. They should start at midfield.
Few years ago, I forget when... it's goofy but exciting... runs up the final score a bunch... it's not perfect, but I don't know what would be better, so I ain't complaining...

ps: KY could've won it in 2OT with just a FG... but the Vols blocked it... which led to one of those Keystone Kops run-backs by Tenn, with 4 hand-offs and people bumping into each other left and right...

RShack

11-24-2007, 06:59 PM

Sweet Lord, is anyone else watching the Tennessee/Kentucky game?
You bet! It's coming down to whether TN can win it with a 2pt conversion in 3OT...

RShack

11-24-2007, 07:00 PM

You bet! It's coming down to whether TN can win it with a 2pt conversion in 3OT...
Which they couldn't do... so, on to 4OT...

But with a personal foul on the play by Tennessee, which applies in 4OT, so we'll see... KY chose D in 4OT, so the flag moves Tenn back to the 40... amazing....

Didn't matter... TD by Tenn...

Pedro Cerrano

11-24-2007, 07:06 PM

This is a helluva game.

RShack

11-24-2007, 07:19 PM

Well, damn... I was hoping KY would win, just because...

Plus, it'd get Georgia's hopes up, and then maybe GT could pull it out against them, just to break their little Bulldog-hearts ;-)

Pedro Cerrano

11-24-2007, 07:23 PM

mweb

11-24-2007, 07:26 PM

Pedro Cerrano

11-24-2007, 07:29 PM

Congrats WVU fans, it seems like they will play for the national title unless they choke against Pitt. I will admit I was very wrong on that one, although, in my defense, who could have predicted that they'd get so much help from other teams?:D

Yea this has truly been the wackiest season in FBS history. From a top 10 team (at the time) losing to a I-AA school to having a #2 team lose X number of times, it's just been insane.

I predict a WVU/Ohio State Nat'l Title game with the winner of tonight's KU/Mizz game losing next week to Oklahoma.

geschinger

11-24-2007, 07:35 PM

Congrats WVU fans, it seems like they will play for the national title unless they choke against Pitt. I will admit I was very wrong on that one, although, in my defense, who could have predicted that they'd get so much help from other teams?:D

Don't jinx 'em for next week. ;)

They'll likely be #2 next week and being #2 and playing an unranked opponent has been a dangerous spot for teams all year long.

Sports Guy

11-24-2007, 07:37 PM

Congrats WVU fans, it seems like they will play for the national title unless they choke against Pitt. I will admit I was very wrong on that one, although, in my defense, who could have predicted that they'd get so much help from other teams?:D

If WVU played Oklahoma, USC, LSU, Georgia, OSU or VT on a neutral field, how many of those teams are they favored against?

Pedro Cerrano

11-24-2007, 07:39 PM

If WVU played Oklahoma, USC, LSU, Georgia, OSU or VT on a neutral field, how many of those teams are they favored against?

I'd say two: Oklahoma and Virginia Tech.

They'd be close to even against Georgia and underdogs against USC, LSU and OSU.

Although that's just my opinion as to who I think would win, not necessarily how I think Vegas would set the lines.

geschinger

11-24-2007, 07:42 PM

If WVU played Oklahoma, USC, LSU, Georgia, OSU or VT on a neutral field, how many of those teams are they favored against?

I have no idea who they'd be favored against but they could beat any of 'em if they played their 'A' game. I'd be extremly confident about their chances against OU, UGA, OSU and VT. With a month to prepare and get people healthy USC and LSU would be tough to beat as I do think they have the best talent in the country.

Sports Guy

11-24-2007, 07:47 PM

geschinger

11-24-2007, 07:49 PM

Its a shame the 2 best teams in the country, USC and LSU, won't be playing for the title.

THAT is the best matchup out there.

Be great to see OSU in the title game and have LSU play in the Rose Bowl against USC.

Correction... two most talented teams, not the two best teams in the country.

Talent alone doesn't win games and both teams with superior talent failed to get it done.

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 07:50 PM

Did anyone else just see FSU's kicker Cismesia hit a 60 yd FG to end the half? That was nasty.

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 07:53 PM

Well, damn... I was hoping KY would win, just because...

Plus, it'd get Georgia's hopes up, and then maybe GT could pull it out against them, just to break their little Bulldog-hearts ;-)

I was hoping KY would win b/c in my hierarchy of hated teams in the SEC, Tennessee, Auburn, and Florida are 1A, 1B, and 1C. Georgia falls into that "don't really like 'em, but don't really hate 'em" category along with Arkansas and LSU.

ledzepp8

11-24-2007, 07:56 PM

Not sure what you're talking about, are you saying they should have made it 2-3 seconds instead of 1? That doesn't really matter much. If the ball hit the ground with time left, which it would have, they would have reviewed it to get it right if the time keeper screwed up.

Concerning your last post, there was 4 seconds when the WR got his hands on the ball, it doesn't take more time for him to drop it or for the ball to be overthrown, it probably takes less time considering the time keeper would have likely stopped it right when it hit the ground.

You said that if it was dropped or whatever and the clock ran out that it would have been reviewed and time would have been put back on the clock. If that's the case then why didn't they review for Auburn? Weren't they deserving of the extra seconds that in your opinion should have still been on the clock?

ledzepp8

11-24-2007, 08:00 PM

Congrats WVU fans, it seems like they will play for the national title unless they choke against Pitt. I will admit I was very wrong on that one, although, in my defense, who could have predicted that they'd get so much help from other teams?:D

Thanks mweb. This is a huge statement win by WVU today. They're really handing it to UCONN. 588 yards of total offense and 481 on the ground with 3 minutes or so left. Just a phenomenal day by Pat White and the WVU offense.

Pat White for Heisman baby!!!

ledzepp8

11-24-2007, 08:11 PM

Fantastic game for WVU today. The defense was a little suspect in the first half but just shut down UCONN in the second half. 622 total yards of offense and 517 yards on the ground. That is just downright nasty. Rich just has to keep them focused on PITT next week and the rest will take care of itself.

mweb

11-24-2007, 08:24 PM

If WVU played Oklahoma, USC, LSU, Georgia, OSU or VT on a neutral field, how many of those teams are they favored against?

VT for sure, and probably everyone else besides USC and maybe LSU. Their domination today is certainly helping the WVU side of this question. They haven't beaten anyone who I think is that good, but what they have done is win 8 of their 10 victories by a wide margin. LSU has beaten better teams, but they've also not been impressive in many of their wins, and have two losses against teams that aren't great by any stretch of the imagination.

mweb

11-24-2007, 08:29 PM

Its a shame the 2 best teams in the country, USC and LSU, won't be playing for the title.

THAT is the best matchup out there.

Be great to see OSU in the title game and have LSU play in the Rose Bowl against USC.

LSU has not shown they're one of the two best teams, while USC obviously blew their chance with that Stanford loss, at least they're now showing how good they're and have a lot of injuries as an excuse for their earlier performance.

BTW, where has Beaner been since the LSU loss?:D

If the winner of KU/Mizzou beats Oklahoma, I'd want to see that team play for the title against WVU, if Oklahoma wins the game, I'd want to see WVU play USC.

mweb

11-24-2007, 08:33 PM

You said that if it was dropped or whatever and the clock ran out that it would have been reviewed and time would have been put back on the clock. If that's the case then why didn't they review for Auburn? Weren't they deserving of the extra seconds that in your opinion should have still been on the clock?

A review for an extra second or two to be put on the clock only happens in very important situations, or maybe if the coach asks for it. So, no they weren't really deserving of having the extra second or two for the kickoff.

But like I said, they wouldn't have needed a review since there still would have been time left unless the time keeper really screwed.

geschinger

11-24-2007, 09:18 PM

LSU has not shown they're one of the two best teams, while USC obviously blew their chance with that Stanford loss, at least they're now showing how good they're and have a lot of injuries as an excuse for their earlier performance.

BTW, where has Beaner been since the LSU loss?:D

If the winner of KU/Mizzou beats Oklahoma, I'd want to see that team play for the title against WVU, if Oklahoma wins the game, I'd want to see WVU play USC.

I'd love to see WVU play USC as well if it didn't require a WVU loss to happen. With Georgia beating Georgia Tech and Georgia not in the SEC title game and OSU done for the year USC has no chance at going to the BCS title game.

mweb

11-24-2007, 09:30 PM

I'd love to see WVU play USC as well if it didn't require a WVU loss to happen. With Georgia beating Georgia Tech and Georgia not in the SEC title game and OSU done for the year USC has no chance at going to the BCS title game.

I wouldn't say no chance, I think it's possible they leapfrog Georgia among other teams, but yes, I do think it's extremely unlikely. If WVU, VaTech, and the winner of Kansas/Mizzou loses, they'll have a decent chance, but I highly doubt WVU loses.

Sports Guy

11-24-2007, 09:38 PM

VT for sure, and probably everyone else besides USC and maybe LSU. Their domination today is certainly helping the WVU side of this question. They haven't beaten anyone who I think is that good, but what they have done is win 8 of their 10 victories by a wide margin. LSU has beaten better teams, but they've also not been impressive in many of their wins, and have two losses against teams that aren't great by any stretch of the imagination.

Give me USC, LSU and Florida over WVU.

If there was a tourney, I think they would lose to either of these schools.

RShack

11-24-2007, 09:42 PM

So I don't imagine you would name your dog Uga?:D
Nope. But I don't hate them or anything. I lived in GA for 20+ years (sorta by accident) and worked at GT much of the time... so I want GT to beat the snot out of Georgia at every opportunity... plus, I think GT has the right idea about the proper role of athletics... but when Georgia is playing somebody else, I like 'em fine... I liked watching them thump FL. All season long, I've been having fun watching both GT's Choice and GA's Moreno...

The Georgia Tech-Georgia rivalry is great, but people don't get as crazy about it as the Auburn-Alabama people do. When I first moved to AL, I was amazed... some of these people are nuts... they *never* want the other one to win, never... even though most of the guys are from in-state... in AL, most of a guy's long-term rep is how they did in the Iron Bowl... it's amazing really...

Speaking of which, Auburn not only just marched down the field and got the first TD, they did it by running the ball right down Bama's throat... pretty strong... but, still Q1, so we'll see...

Pedro Cerrano

11-24-2007, 09:45 PM

Nope. But I don't hate them or anything. I lived in GA for 20+ years (sorta by accident) and worked at GT much of the time... so I want GT to beat the snot out of Georgia at every opportunity... plus, I think GT has the right idea about the proper role of athletics... but when Georgia is playing somebody else, I like 'em fine... I liked watching them thump FL. All season long, I've been having fun watching both GT's Choice and GA's Moreno...

The Georgia Tech-Georgia rivalry is great, but people don't get as crazy about it as the Auburn-Alabama people do. When I first moved to AL, I was amazed... some of these people are nuts... they *never* want the other one to win, never... even though most of the guys are from in-state... in AL, most of a guy's long-term rep is how they did in the Iron Bowl... it's amazing really...

Speaking of which, Auburn not only just marched down the field and got the first TD, they did it by running the ball right down Bama's throat... pretty strong... but, still Q1, so we'll see...

Pardon my asking this somewhat personal question, but how does one live in a place for 20 years by accident?

RShack

11-24-2007, 09:46 PM

Correction... two most talented teams, not the two best teams in the country.

Talent alone doesn't win games and both teams with superior talent failed to get it done.
The thing I hate most about the whole BCS scam is that it get's people talking about who the 2 best teams are... as if there's just-two. Some years, that might be right. But most years it's not. Most years there's a handful of them, and there's just no way to know without having them just go out there and do it...

If we had a playoff, it'd take away lots of good arguments, and it would take away the incredible importance of each and every late-season game... but at least we wouldn't have to pretend that there's somehow "2 best teams" who should play each other... instead, we could just take the "X-best teams" and tell them to go sort it out...

mweb

11-24-2007, 09:46 PM

Give me USC, LSU and Florida over WVU.

If there was a tourney, I think they would lose to either of these schools.

Well that's different than asking who would be favored, but I'd actually take WVU over LSU and Florida. If Oregon was healthy, I'd take them as well over WVU in an offensive battle.

mweb

11-24-2007, 09:48 PM

The thing I hate most about the whole BCS scam is that it get's people talking about who the 2 best teams are... is if there's just-two. Some years, that might be right. But most years it's not. Most years there's a handful of them, and there's just no way to know without having them just go out there and do it...

If we had a playoff, it'd take away lots of good arguments, and it would take away the incredible importance of each and every late-season game... but at least we wouldn't have to pretend that there's somehow "2 best teams" who should play each other... instead, we could just take the "X-best teams" and tell them to go sort it out...

If there was a 6 team playoff, which is what I want, I don't think the arguments or late season importance would be affected that much. Every game is still very important, there's still a debate over the top 2, because those teams would get a bye, and there's a debate over who get the last couple spots or so.

Pedro Cerrano

11-24-2007, 09:50 PM

Give me USC, LSU and Florida over WVU.

If there was a tourney, I think they would lose to either of these schools.

Yea, great point. If there was ever a case to be made for a playoff system in FBS, this year is it. You have possibly the 2-3 best teams not even playing for a title off the spot and WVU gets in because they got fat off the "BEast" this year (which once again sucks).

Teams like LSU have to play a difficult SEC schedule (and an SEC title game to boot) and two losses basically knocks you out.

Now, USC I don't quite feel as sorry for because they lost to a positively awful team at home but if say their last game of the year was at Oregon and they lost, that may have been enough to knock them out of the top 5.

Kansas and Mizzou had great records this year but Kansas hasn't played Oklahoma yet and Mizzou's one loss was to Oklahoma.

It's simply not fair because of the differences in the strengths of schedules in each conference to decide who is the best through a computer -- take the top 8 (hell make it 16 if you really want to) and play it out. I'd even be fine with taking the top 4! Double the amount of teams that can win it all and you have teams like USC still with a prayer.

People complain here about how playing the Red Sox and Yankees 19 times each is a detriment -- how is FBS any different? In many ways it's worse because at least the O's get a shot at the AL West and AL Central teams. USC and LSU will never get their shot to knock out WVU.

Sports Guy

11-24-2007, 09:56 PM

IF WVU is in the Pac 10 or the SEC this year, no chance they only have 1 loss.

I have little doubt about that.

They are going to the NC game because they play in a subpar conference.

Their best win this year is at Cinci...Not like that is a bad win but its not a great win either IMO.

THis is why the BCS sucks so bad.

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 09:57 PM

Nope. But I don't hate them or anything. I lived in GA for 20+ years (sorta by accident) and worked at GT much of the time... so I want GT to beat the snot out of Georgia at every opportunity... plus, I think GT has the right idea about the proper role of athletics... but when Georgia is playing somebody else, I like 'em fine... I liked watching them thump FL. All season long, I've been having fun watching both GT's Choice and GA's Moreno...

The Georgia Tech-Georgia rivalry is great, but people don't get as crazy about it as the Auburn-Alabama people do. When I first moved to AL, I was amazed... some of these people are nuts... they *never* want the other one to win, never... even though most of the guys are from in-state... in AL, most of a guy's long-term rep is how they did in the Iron Bowl... it's amazing really...

Speaking of which, Auburn not only just marched down the field and got the first TD, they did it by running the ball right down Bama's throat... pretty strong... but, still Q1, so we'll see...

He's right about Alabama. People are insane about the Iron Bowl. It makes or breaks some people's years let alone making a player a Super Bowl-esque lifetime hero for half the state. See Van Tiffin.

Alabama just drove down the field and stuffed it right back down Auburn's throat.

RShack

11-24-2007, 10:07 PM

Pardon my asking this somewhat personal question, but how does one live in a place for 20 years by accident?
Oh, it's a sensible question... long story... I can tell you if you want... but it basically boils down to: I moved there for one reason... in spite of where it was... I had goofy ideas about what the South was really like (I think a lot of people do, really)... intended to be there just 9-months or a year...but after a little while, I found that I liked lotsa stuff about it... not everything, but lotsa of stuff... and then, after that, it was just the various accidents and coincidences and zig-zags that Real Life throws at you... as somebody once said, "Real Life is what happens while you're making other plans." (Great quote, if you ask me.)

We've pretty much decided to sell our big beach place for various reasons... mainly because a dozen years of beach seems like about enough... if/when we do, we might move back to Georgia. I keep thinking about coming back to Baltimore, but since I've been down here, I've become a weather-wimp. I don't ever wanna have to scrape ice off my windshield ever again... stupid reason, I know, but there you are...

geschinger

11-24-2007, 10:10 PM

The thing I hate most about the whole BCS scam is that it get's people talking about who the 2 best teams are... is if there's just-two. Some years, that might be right. But most years it's not. Most years there's a handful of them, and there's just no way to know without having them just go out there and do it...

If we had a playoff, it'd take away lots of good arguments, and it would take away the incredible importance of each and every late-season game... but at least we wouldn't have to pretend that there's somehow "2 best teams" who should play each other... instead, we could just take the "X-best teams" and tell them to go sort it out...

I agree. I'd argue that in most years we don't really get a matchup of the two best teams in country. We definately need a playoff, having championships decided objectively on the field is superior to the highly subjective system we're stuck with now. But until the system is changed, it's hard to consider teams that have lost multiple times as being among the very best teams in the country.

Pedro Cerrano

11-24-2007, 10:14 PM

I agree. I'd argue that in most years we don't really get a matchup of the two best teams in country. We definately need a playoff, having championships decided objectively on the field is superior to the highly subjective system we're stuck with now. But until the system is changed, it's hard to consider teams that have lost multiple times as being among the very best teams in the country.

Do you think WVU would beat USC (now that they are healthy) on a neutral field?

RShack

11-24-2007, 10:20 PM

He's right about Alabama. People are insane about the Iron Bowl. It makes or breaks some people's years let alone making a player a Super Bowl-esque lifetime hero for half the state. See Van Tiffin.

Alabama just drove down the field and stuffed it right back down Auburn's throat.
I love the game, doesn't matter how the two teams are doing, it's usually great...

Meanwhile, things are looking not so hot for KU... down 14-zip, then their kicker bounces a FG attempt off the upright... still very early though...

I love my DirecTV TIVO... I get to watch 2 things at once without missing anything...

geschinger

11-24-2007, 10:22 PM

Yea, great point. If there was ever a case to be made for a playoff system in FBS, this year is it. You have possibly the 2-3 best teams not even playing for a title off the spot and WVU gets in because they got fat off the "BEast" this year (which once again sucks).

The BEast isn't as strong as it was last year and certainly isn't at the same level as the SEC but it certainly does not suck unless of course you are the opinion that there are only a couple of good conferences and all the rest of the BCS conferences suck. The BEast is consistently ranked somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-4 in all the systems that try and objectively rank conferences.

Teams like LSU have to play a difficult SEC schedule (and an SEC title game to boot) and two losses basically knocks you out.

Now, USC I don't quite feel as sorry for because they lost to a positively awful team at home but if say their last game of the year was at Oregon and they lost, that may have been enough to knock them out of the top 5.

Kansas and Mizzou had great records this year but Kansas hasn't played Oklahoma yet and Mizzou's one loss was to Oklahoma.

It's simply not fair because of the differences in the strengths of schedules in each conference to decide who is the best through a computer -- take the top 8 (hell make it 16 if you really want to) and play it out. I'd even be fine with taking the top 4! Double the amount of teams that can win it all and you have teams like USC still with a prayer.

People complain here about how playing the Red Sox and Yankees 19 times each is a detriment -- how is FBS any different? In many ways it's worse because at least the O's get a shot at the AL West and AL Central teams. USC and LSU will never get their shot to knock out WVU.

It is tough to make it through the SEC unscathed, but even there it's possible to win the title while avoiding the better teams if you happen to be in the lessor division. The computers and to a lessor extent the voters take strength of schedule into account. If they didn't, the University of Florida would not have won the National Championship last season.

beaner

11-24-2007, 10:25 PM

Carolina beat Duke again today....

Ok, sorry..Now back to your regular programming.

West Virginia vs. Missouri?

CrimsonTribe

11-24-2007, 10:29 PM

I love the game, doesn't matter how the two teams are doing, it's usually great...

Meanwhile, things are looking not so hot for KU... down 14-zip, then their kicker bounces a FG attempt off the upright... still very early though...

I love my DirecTV TIVO... I get to watch 2 things at once without missing anything...

It's always a great game, although not so great from the Alabama side of things lately. Luckily, I'm a transplant so the craziness isn't in my blood, but it still affects me for about a day. I've never been a part of another rivalry like it though.

Just as I type this, Alabama intercepts and Cox goes down. Hope he's ok... after today.

geschinger

11-24-2007, 10:32 PM

Do you think WVU would beat USC (now that they are healthy) on a neutral field?

Sure, I have no doubt they could beat USC if they played their 'A' game and USC brought less than their 'A' game as their apt to do. If both teams were at 100% on a neutral field and played up to their potential, I do think USC would win as they are clearly more talented than just about any team in the country. It would be a close game as I have no doubt that WVU's offense would be able to move the ball on USC's defense.

mweb

11-24-2007, 10:35 PM

Carolina beat Duke again today....

Ok, sorry..Now back to your regular programming.

West Virginia vs. Missouri?

Well whatever the matchup is, LSU won't be a part of it, I wonder how that can be when their clearly above the rest.;)

Pedro Cerrano

11-24-2007, 10:37 PM

Well whatever the matchup is, LSU won't be a part of it, I wonder how that can be when their clearly above the rest.;)

Them and Michigan....:p

RShack

11-24-2007, 10:57 PM

Well whatever the matchup is, LSU won't be a part of it, I wonder how that can be when their clearly above the rest.;)
The whole thing about how it's not just losing but *when* you lose... that's so insane... but at the same time, it makes the season so exciting, because once you get near the end, there is absolutely no wiggle room for error... on the one hand it's both crazy and unfair, but on the other hand it makes the last few weeks so exciting... that's one thing that a play-off system would cost us...

Personally, I figure they ought to use the std 4 big bowl games for 1..8, and then add a couple games later to sort out the 4 winners... that way, LSU would still be in it... but the downside is that it wouldn't be so earth-shattering for the top team to lose one near the end... it would let teams take a breath, which they can't do now...

beaner

11-24-2007, 11:05 PM

Well whatever the matchup is, LSU won't be a part of it, I wonder how that can be when their clearly above the rest.;)

Yea, guess I missed that one...

beaner

11-24-2007, 11:05 PM

Them and Michigan....:p

And that one...

Sports Guy

11-24-2007, 11:08 PM

Looks like Mizzou vs OU next week.

Missouri has a good team.

Missouri will leap WVU and be #1 if they end up winning tonight.

mweb

11-24-2007, 11:09 PM

The whole thing about how it's not just losing but *when* you lose... that's so insane... but at the same time, it makes the season so exciting, because once you get near the end, there is absolutely no wiggle room for error... on the one hand it's both crazy and unfair, but on the other hand it makes the last few weeks so exciting... that's one thing that a play-off system would cost us...

Personally, I figure they ought to use the std 4 big bowl games for 1..8, and then add a couple games later to sort out the 4 winners... that way, LSU would still be in it... but the downside is that it wouldn't be so earth-shattering for the top team to lose one near the end... it would let teams take a breath, which they can't do now...

It is silly for the most part, however, I think I'd go with the team that is hot over the one that has a recent loss if the rest of their resume is similiar.

OSU might get to play for the title despite a recent loss.

The playoff system I've proposed would keep much of the importance of the late games intact.

ledzepp8

11-24-2007, 11:10 PM

Yea, great point. If there was ever a case to be made for a playoff system in FBS, this year is it. You have possibly the 2-3 best teams not even playing for a title off the spot and WVU gets in because they got fat off the "BEast" this year (which once again sucks).

Teams like LSU have to play a difficult SEC schedule (and an SEC title game to boot) and two losses basically knocks you out.

Now, USC I don't quite feel as sorry for because they lost to a positively awful team at home but if say their last game of the year was at Oregon and they lost, that may have been enough to knock them out of the top 5.

Kansas and Mizzou had great records this year but Kansas hasn't played Oklahoma yet and Mizzou's one loss was to Oklahoma.

It's simply not fair because of the differences in the strengths of schedules in each conference to decide who is the best through a computer -- take the top 8 (hell make it 16 if you really want to) and play it out. I'd even be fine with taking the top 4! Double the amount of teams that can win it all and you have teams like USC still with a prayer.

People complain here about how playing the Red Sox and Yankees 19 times each is a detriment -- how is FBS any different? In many ways it's worse because at least the O's get a shot at the AL West and AL Central teams. USC and LSU will never get their shot to knock out WVU.

SOS through Nov 17th according to Sagrain(basically I picked the teams that have the most bearing on the title game)

WVU 42
LSU 27
Ohio St 53
Ok 69
Kansas 101
Mizzou 47
USC 40

Doesn't look like a lot of separation in those rankings to me. LSU's SOS is sure to get worse after their loss and WVU's will go up with their win. Me thinks people don't give WVU enough credit. You'll excuse me if I don't get too upset that a two loss USC team doesn't get to play in yet another National Championship and WVU gets to play in it's second.

Oh yeah, I couldn't access the Sagarin ratings by conference(something wrong with the website), but the Big East certainly doesn't "suck once again".

Sports Guy

11-24-2007, 11:14 PM

SOS through Nov 17th according to Sagrain

WVU 42
LSU 27
Ohio St 53
Ok 69
Kansas 101
Mizzou 47
USC 40

Doesn't look like a lot of separation in those rankings to me. LSU's SOS is sure to get worse after their loss and WVU's will go up with their win. Me thinks people don't give WVU enough credit. You'll excuse me if I don't get too upset that a two loss USC team doesn't get to play in yet another National Championship and WVU gets to play in it's second.

Oh yeah, I couldn't access the Sagarin ratings by conference(something wrong with the website), but the Big East certainly doesn't "suck once again".
Personally, I don't care what the Sagarin ratings say....With the possible exception of WVU, the rest of the "top teams" in the Big East would just be ok(at best) in the better conferences.

RShack

11-24-2007, 11:24 PM

Looks like Mizzou vs OU next week.

Missouri has a good team.

Missouri will leap WVU and be #1 if they end up winning tonight.
Well, as I'm sure everybody knows by now, KU just now got themselves unstuck... so, from 21-zip to 21-7... helluva catch to get down there too... lotsa time left... we'll see...

ledzepp8

11-24-2007, 11:25 PM

Personally, I don't care what the Sagarin ratings say....With the possible exception of WVU, the rest of the "top teams" in the Big East would just be ok(at best) in the better conferences.

You don't care what the Sagarin ratings say? The same ratings that are used in part to determine selections for the NCAA Basketball Tourney and the BCS rankings. Seems kind of silly. What ratings do you care about?

I'm not saying that WVU has played an absolutely killer schedule, but of the teams they have played the following are bowl eligible: Maryland, ECU, USF, Miss St, Rutgers, Cincy, UCONN, and with another win Louisville. That's 8 of their 12 games...and they certainly never lost to a 3-7 forty point underdog Stanford team.

geschinger

11-24-2007, 11:25 PM

Personally, I don't care what the Sagarin ratings say....With the possible exception of WVU, the rest of the "top teams" in the Big East would just be ok(at best) in the better conferences.

I suspect you are falling into the same trap that many do - being unwilling to acknowledge that emergent programs can or have passed many of the traditionaly/historically good programs. It's not just Sagarin, the BEast fares decently in just about any attempt to objectively rank conferences.

Sports Guy

11-24-2007, 11:28 PM

You don't care what the Sagarin ratings say? The same ratings that are used in part to determine selections for the NCAA Basketball Tourney and the BCS rankings. Seems kind of silly. What ratings do you care about?

I'm not saying that WVU has played an absolutely killer schedule, but of the teams they have played the following are bowl eligible: Maryland, ECU, USF, Miss St, Rutgers, Cincy, UCONN, and with another win Louisville. That's 8 of their 12 games...and they certainly never lost to a 3-7 forty point underdog Stanford team.

My point is that while those aren't bad wins(not saying they are), they aren't really great wins.

And teams like Rutgers and Cinci would be below 500 in conferences like the SEC and Pac 10 IMO.

WVU has played a solid schedule because a lot of their scheduled teams play each other...As i said, out of the Big East, most of those teams would struggle over a 10-12 game schedule.

geschinger

11-24-2007, 11:37 PM

My point is that while those aren't bad wins(not saying they are), they aren't really great wins.

And teams like Rutgers and Cinci would be below 500 in conferences like the SEC and Pac 10 IMO.

How are you coming to this conclusion? The fourth most successful team in the Pac 10 this year is Oregon State. Cincinnati is the fourth most successful team in the BEast this year... When they played each other Cincinnati dominated them. Would Cincinnati beat USC, Oregon and maybe ASU? Maybe not. But I think you have to be completely underrating them to think they wouldn't matchup favorably against the other teams in the conference.

Sports Guy

11-24-2007, 11:44 PM

mweb

11-25-2007, 12:02 AM

How are you coming to this conclusion? The fourth most successful team in the Pac 10 this year is Oregon State. Cincinnati is the fourth most successful team in the BEast this year... When they played each other Cincinnati dominated them. Would Cincinnati beat USC, Oregon and maybe ASU? Maybe not. But I think you have to be completely underrating them to think they wouldn't matchup favorably against the other teams in the conference.

Cincy is 3rd in the BEast after tonight, OSU is 5th in the Pac-10. But yes, it was a convincing win. The Big East is solid, but I don't think it's quite as good as you or the rankings suggest. Considering there's not many out of conference games to really judge teams, I think it's hard to take those rankings as the gospel.

If we are to play this game, the 9th team in the ACC beat the 5th team in the Big East on the road.;)

My main problem with WVU and some of the other top ranked teams, is they haven't beat anyone really good teams. But I do think WVU is worthy of playing for the national title game considering how often they dominate their competition and the lack of other teams with good cases.

geschinger

11-25-2007, 12:07 AM

A healthy Cal team is better than OSU.

Cinci is not a bad team but I bet they are a 7-4 type team in a top conference, with a few of those wins being lower level OOC wins.

I think the Big East can play with the ACC and the Big 10 but not the other 3(although they would be ok after the top teams in the Big 12).

I agree that a team like Cincy would find things tougher in a conference like the SEC and maybe the Pac-10. I respectfully disagree about the Big 12. I could see them being better in the Big 12 than they are in the BEast depending on their schedule. In the BEast every team plays every other team. In the Big 12, a team like Kansas can make it to 11-0 playing a cupcake conference schedule. Cincinnati has it a lot tougher being a BEast team than they would if they were in the Big 12.

CrimsonTribe

11-25-2007, 12:11 AM

I don't know if anyone else is watching the Alabama/Auburn game, but one of the security dogs in the back of the endzone just bit Jerraud Powers on the hand. Nothing bad, but funny nonetheless.

Sports Guy

11-25-2007, 12:13 AM

geschinger

11-25-2007, 12:14 AM

Cincy is 3rd in the BEast after tonight, OSU is 5th in the Pac-10. But yes, it was a convincing win. The Big East is solid, but I don't think it's quite as good as you or the rankings suggest. Considering there's not many out of conference games to really judge teams, I think it's hard to take those rankings as the gospel.

If we are to play this game, the 9th team in the ACC crushed the 5th team in the Big East on the road.;)

My main problem with WVU and some of the other top ranked teams, is they haven't beat anyone really good teams. But I do think WVU is worthy of playing for the national title game considering how often they dominate their competition and the lack of other teams with good cases.

Head to head or common opponents is definately is not a great way to evaluate but it's all we've got. But if we ignore that, how would you suggest we get past the bias inherent when comparing traditional/historical programs to emerging programs?

I freely admit being an advocate for the BEast and maybe I even ever so slightly overrate the conference. ;) However I do think they get a raw deal due to the traditional/historical v. emerging program bias and its why I think the conference ranking systems are more accurate than most opinions.

RShack

11-25-2007, 12:18 AM

I don't know if anyone else is watching the Alabama/Auburn game, but one of the security dogs in the back of the endzone just bit Jerraud Powers on the hand. Nothing bad, but funny nonetheless.
Yeah, I'm watching both at once...

As for the other conversation, arguing about conferences... well, that's another great thing about college ball... you can argue about it forever... and whatever side of it you take, you're sorta-right and sorta-wrong ;-)

ps: 4th-and-1, and Lester drags half the Bama team for God-knows-how-far (a lot longer than 1)... that pretty much does it...

CrimsonTribe

11-25-2007, 12:22 AM

Yeah, I'm watching both at once...

As for the other conversation, arguing about conferences... well, that's another great thing about college ball... you can argue about it forever... and whatever side of it you take, you're sorta-right and sorta-wrong ;-)

ps: 4th-and-1, and Lester drags half the Bama team for God-knows-how-far (a lot longer than 1)... that pretty much does it...

Saban's got some work to do.

Pedro Cerrano

11-25-2007, 12:25 AM

Saban's got some work to do.

Yea if he doesn't skip town when the next best offer comes around...

mweb

11-25-2007, 12:28 AM

Head to head or common opponents is definately is not a great way to evaluate but it's all we've got. But if we ignore that, how would you suggest we get past the bias inherent when comparing traditional/historical programs to emerging programs?

I freely admit being an advocate for the BEast and maybe I even ever so slightly overrate the conference. ;) However I do think they get a raw deal due to the traditional/historical v. emerging program bias and its why I think the conference ranking systems are more accurate than most opinions.

Yeah, that's all the computers got, but that's not nearly enough to come to any definitive conclusions, and we, as people, do have other things to go off of as well.

And what exactly has the Big East done out of conference to show their the 2nd or 3rd best conference out there? S. Florida winning at Auburn by 3 was a good win, but Auburn wasn't playing well then, and aren't ranked in the top 25 in the BCS, although they probably will be now. What's the second best out of conference win? The win over Oregon State? How about after that? Maybe WVU winning at MD? Let me know if I'm forgetting any good wins here.

That's not impressive at all. Now I will give them credit for winning most of the games they should win, but still, there's not that much to go off here. The bowl season will help clarify things, but even after that, ranking college football teams and conferences is rather fuzzy compared to college basketball or the pro sports. Not many games, few if any good out of conference opponents for most teams during the regular season, and obviously it's harder to determine talent level compared to the pro sports, and even college bball.

Sports Guy

11-25-2007, 12:35 AM

Yeah, that's all the computers got, but that's not nearly enough to come to any definitive conclusions, and we, as people, do have other things to go off of as well.

And what exactly has the Big East done out of conference to show their the 2nd or 3rd best conference out there? S. Florida winning at Auburn by 3 was a good win, but Auburn wasn't playing well then, and aren't ranked in the top 25 in the BCS, although they probably will be now. What's the second best out of conference win? The win over Oregon State? How about after that? Maybe WVU winning at MD? Let me know if I'm forgetting any good wins here.

That's not impressive at all. Now I will give them credit for winning most of the games they should win, but still, there's not that much to go off here. The bowl season will help clarify things, but even after that, ranking college football teams and conferences is rather fuzzy compared to college basketball or the pro sports. Not many games, few if any good out of conference opponents for most teams during the regular season, and obviously it's harder to determine talent level compared to the pro sports, and even college bball.

Even the bowl games only tell so much.

Over the course of a season, most of the Big East schools would be lucky to be bowl eligible in conferences like the SEC and Pac 10 and depending on who they play in the Big 12, they struggle there as well.