Boller

[Elbren]

I'm probaby going to get blasted for this, but I'm still not impressed by Boller. Facing an 0-5 team, I saw the same thing today I've seen since we drafted him. He failed multiple times in the redzone, gave up a heartbreaking pick in the redzone and his accuracy to the sidelines continued to look shaky. Somehow, Frerotte, with a decimated WR core, gave up 5 INT's and was sacked 4 times yet still had more completions (19 vs. 18) and YD's (208 vs. 184) than Boller. Frerotte is terrible yet did more with less and against a Baltimore Defense that really stepped up today. The sad thing is, he probably would have done even better had McMichael held onto that ball in the endzone and Hagans would stop dropping passes.

I'm sure that nothing happened today that would change the mind of any Boller supporters. A win is a win afterall, but to be facing one of the worst teams in the league and win basically because your kicker put up 16 points isn't a good thing. I'm really not looking forward to the next several weeks against Pittsburgh, San Diego, NE and Indy.

[Tank]

Our offensive line was giving way to alot of heavy pressure. Plus, our offense looked alot better, we were throwing the ball downfield and all across the field. He was far from perfect, but hes the better option for us at QB IMO.

[Sports Guy]

I'm probaby going to get blasted for this, but I'm still not impressed by Boller. Facing an 0-5 team, I saw the same thing today I've seen since we drafted him. He failed multiple times in the redzone, gave up a heartbreaking pick in the redzone and his accuracy to the sidelines continued to look shaky. Somehow, Frerotte, with a decimated WR core, gave up 5 INT's and was sacked 4 times yet still had more completions (19 vs. 18) and YD's (208 vs. 184) than Boller. Frerotte is terrible yet did more with less and against a Baltimore Defense that really stepped up today. The sad thing is, he probably would have done even better had McMichael held onto that ball in the endzone and Hagans would stop dropping passes.

I'm sure that nothing happened today that would change the mind of any Boller supporters. A win is a win afterall, but to be facing one of the worst teams in the league and win basically because your kicker put up 16 points isn't a good thing. I'm really not looking forward to the next several weeks against Pittsburgh, San Diego, NE and Indy.
Are you really blaming that INT on him??

[AgentOrange]

Are you really blaming that INT on him??

I would say a little bit of column A, and a little bit of column B.

He wasn't totally at fault, but he was planning on floating that ball out there even if he wasn't hit. I wasn't too thrilled about that. I thikn there was a lot of bad luck though because the guy we had on the line from the practice squad got handled.

[Old#5fan]

Are you really blaming that INT on him??

Of course not, nothing that Boller does is ever wrong!:rolleyes: :eek:

[Old#5fan]

I'm probaby going to get blasted for this, but I'm still not impressed by Boller. Facing an 0-5 team, I saw the same thing today I've seen since we drafted him. He failed multiple times in the redzone, gave up a heartbreaking pick in the redzone and his accuracy to the sidelines continued to look shaky. Somehow, Frerotte, with a decimated WR core, gave up 5 INT's and was sacked 4 times yet still had more completions (19 vs. 18) and YD's (208 vs. 184) than Boller. Frerotte is terrible yet did more with less and against a Baltimore Defense that really stepped up today. The sad thing is, he probably would have done even better had McMichael held onto that ball in the endzone and Hagans would stop dropping passes.

I'm sure that nothing happened today that would change the mind of any Boller supporters. A win is a win afterall, but to be facing one of the worst teams in the league and win basically because your kicker put up 16 points isn't a good thing. I'm really not looking forward to the next several weeks against Pittsburgh, San Diego, NE and Indy.

Spot on post. Boller had zero TD passes, a fumble, a redzone pick, and a QB rating of 63.8 against one of the worst defenses in the NFL at home no less. Heck, if not for the defense this game would probably be tied still at 3-3 largely because Boller is about as clueless as you come for any NFL QB in his fifth season. We can all only hope and pray that McNair gets healthy for Buffalo next week or this team will not only lose to Buffalo, but kiss their realistic chances at the playoffs goodbye. Even with a healthy McNair its going to be a tremendous challenge. With McNair out and Boller in, this team has no chance period.

[Sports Guy]

Of course not, nothing that Boller does is ever wrong!:rolleyes: :eek:

Well, his own lineman was pushed into him and hit him as he threw it....There was nothing he could do.

[Sports Guy]

Spot on post. Boller had zero TD passes, a fumble, a redzone pick, and a QB rating of 63.8 against one of the worst defenses in the NFL at home no less. Heck, if not for the defense this game would probably be tied still at 3-3 largely because Boller is about as clueless as you come for any NFL QB in his fifth season. We can all only hope and pray that McNair gets healthy for Buffalo next week or this team will not only lose to Buffalo, but kiss their realistic chances at the playoffs goodbye. Even with a healthy McNair its going to be a tremendous challenge. With McNair out and Boller in, this team has no chance period.

What a horrendous post...Did you watch McNair against the horrible defense in Cinci?

[The Wedge]

What a horrendous post...Did you watch McNair against the horrible defense in Cinci?

I'd hate to give you advice with your own words, but:


Save your breath....He is ridiculously wrong and you knew he would say something.

[Elbren]

What a horrendous post...Did you watch McNair against the horrible defense in Cinci?

I freely admit that McNair hasn't looked good all season, but at least he has a reason for his problems; he's injured and he's tried to play through it. I just see nothing in Kyle Boller that makes me think he can save this season. Like I said previously ... I saw pretty much what I've seen since we drafted him. A guy with a big arm with little accuracy, especially to the sidelines who doesn't look all that great when making decisions under pressure. Having all that "talent" is nice, but you can't keep expecting Williams and Heap to jump 10 feet into the air to catch passes or Clayton and Mason to turn short dunk passes into big gains. Again, we faced one of the worst teams in the league who we should have beaten in every aspect of the game today, yet we still couldn't get a thrown TD in the endzone.

I have no problem with Boller as a backup but by no means do I see him as the future of this franchise. If McNair is 100% healthy right now, I doubt this is even a discussion.


EDIT: On a side note, how is it that the 2 plays before Bollers' INT were both runs up the middle when McGahee averages less than 2 yards when running up the middle? Yeah, they didn't need him to go far, but don't the odds say has a better chance of success if he runs to the left or right?? :confused:

[Elbren]

Spot on post. Boller had zero TD passes, a fumble, a redzone pick, and a QB rating of 63.8 against one of the worst defenses in the NFL at home no less. Heck, if not for the defense this game would probably be tied still at 3-3 largely because Boller is about as clueless as you come for any NFL QB in his fifth season. We can all only hope and pray that McNair gets healthy for Buffalo next week or this team will not only lose to Buffalo, but kiss their realistic chances at the playoffs goodbye. Even with a healthy McNair its going to be a tremendous challenge. With McNair out and Boller in, this team has no chance period.

I don't think we'll go winless the rest of the year, but I have a hard time believing this team will do any better than 8-8 with Boller as the starting QB.

[The Wedge]

I'm forced to believe that Boller would have to cure cancer, walk on water, and buy everyone in Baltimore a nice steak dinner before some people would even pronounce him as passable.

[Sports Guy]

I don't think we'll go winless the rest of the year, but I have a hard time believing this team will do any better than 8-8 with Boller as the starting QB.

With the way McNair has played, we may not even be able to go 8-8.

McNair has to be 100% healthy to be effective right now...If he isn't, Boller is far and away the better option.

The o-line wasn't that good today....They were the reason we failed to run and they were the reason Kyle didn't have a ton of time.

Anyone denying that just wants to dump on Boller and has no clue as to what they are talking about.

Boller did do some things wrong today but guess what, every Qb does things wrong in every game.

I would love to see the Boller-naysayers pick apart a McNair game...Boller could make the same mistake as McNair and that will be mentioned but if McNair does it, no one says anything.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Boller didn't look great today, but he looked a hell of a lot better then McNair has looked, and he was throwing deep.

The Rams are a godawful team, especially with Gus "You Don't Have To Hit Me In The Head, I Can DO It Myself" Ferrotte at quarterback (hell, when you are getting beat so badly you have to send in your emergency QB just to take a couple knees to end the suffering, that's a clue), so it wasn't as though we had to do anything against them.

The line looked like they had a little TOO much confidence from last week, and it showed when they hit a defensive line that can rush a little. That interception was more Gaither's fault then anything (although Boller did panic a little in getting rid of the ball).

Boller probably deserves a B- for today, but when you are getting C's and below from your starter (why has McNair been %*&((*ing playing!?!?) it is exactly what we need.

[Elbren]

With the way McNair has played, we may not even be able to go 8-8.

McNair has to be 100% healthy to be effective right now...If he isn't, Boller is far and away the better option.

The o-line wasn't that good today....They were the reason we failed to run and they were the reason Kyle didn't have a ton of time.

Anyone denying that just wants to dump on Boller and has no clue as to what they are talking about.

Boller did do some things wrong today but guess what, every Qb does things wrong in every game.

I would love to see the Boller-naysayers pick apart a McNair game...Boller could make the same mistake as McNair and that will be mentioned but if McNair does it, no one says anything.

I have no problem picking apart McNair. Especially that game that knocked us out of the playoffs last year. (God, that was ugly) But at least McNair has been there and proven he's a good QB. His main problem is that he's injury prone and consistently tries to play when he's not 100%. Boller on the other hand has done nothing that proves he's any better than a backup QB and somehow it's always someone else's fault. If I remember correctly, that was one of knocks on the team in 2005; that they were terrible at pass protection. So how is it that a healthy McNair took pretty much the same O-Line and went 13-3 last year?

[BaltimoreTerp]

I freely admit that McNair hasn't looked good all season, but at least he has a reason for his problems; he's injured and he's tried to play through it. I just see nothing in Kyle Boller that makes me think he can save this season.
Who said he has to save our season? He is better then McNair is, probably even when McNair is healthy (since he hasn't thrown a successful 10+ yard pass since about Week 3...last year).


Like I said previously ... I saw pretty much what I've seen since we drafted him. A guy with a big arm with little accuracy, especially to the sidelines who doesn't look all that great when making decisions under pressure. Having all that "talent" is nice, but you can't keep expecting Williams and Heap to jump 10 feet into the air to catch passes...
That's what they do.

...or Clayton and Mason to turn short dunk passes into big gains.
That's what MCNAIR has been doing all year, more then Boller.


Again, we faced one of the worst teams in the league who we should have beaten in every aspect of the game today, yet we still couldn't get a thrown TD in the endzone.
We didn't have to. We would have won by 10 with Troy Smith at quarterback.


I have no problem with Boller as a backup but by no means do I see him as the future of this franchise. If McNair is 100% healthy right now, I doubt this is even a discussion.
Because we would be whining about why McNair is stinking up the joint while Boller sits.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I have no problem picking apart McNair. Especially that game that knocked us out of the playoffs last year. (God, that was ugly) But at least McNair has been there and proven he's a good QB.

That's like saying, "I have no problem going with Curt Schilling over Adam Loewen in the rotation next year. He's proven he's a good pitcher and he's been there."

[BaltimoreTerp]

If I remember correctly, that was one of knocks on the team in 2005; that they were terrible at pass protection. So how is it that a healthy McNair took pretty much the same O-Line and went 13-3 last year?

Last year we were starting three rookies and a second-year first-time starter?

[Old#5fan]

What a horrendous post...Did you watch McNair against the horrible defense in Cinci?

Yes did you? He was HURT! Does that fact not register with you? Boller plays crappy when he is 100% healthy. You have to see the difference.

[Old#5fan]

I'm forced to believe that Boller would have to cure cancer, walk on water, and buy everyone in Baltimore a nice steak dinner before some people would even pronounce him as passable.

He barely has a winning career record with a team that has had one of the best defenses in the NFL during his time as their QB. The same team that a less than adequate prepared McNair took to a 12-2 record in just his first season in his stead. So why should anyone have much good to say about Boller as an NFL QB. He simply isn't much better (if at all) than a career backup named Anthony Wright who put up essentially the same stats as a Raven with the same offense and defense around him. So figure it out!

[Old#5fan]

Boller didn't look great today, but he looked a hell of a lot better then McNair has looked, and he was throwing deep.

The Rams are a godawful team, especially with Gus "You Don't Have To Hit Me In The Head, I Can DO It Myself" Ferrotte at quarterback (hell, when you are getting beat so badly you have to send in your emergency QB just to take a couple knees to end the suffering, that's a clue), so it wasn't as though we had to do anything against them.

The line looked like they had a little TOO much confidence from last week, and it showed when they hit a defensive line that can rush a little. That interception was more Gaither's fault then anything (although Boller did panic a little in getting rid of the ball).

Boller probably deserves a B- for today, but when you are getting C's and below from your starter (why has McNair been %*&((*ing playing!?!?) it is exactly what we need.

Why should Boller get a B-today when he put up a whopping 63.8 rating against a putrid Rams team with the league average being 75.4? Correct me if I am wrong but that is nearly 12 points below league average: and against a putrid team?confused:

[Bosibus]

Yes did you? He was HURT! Does that fact not register with you? Boller plays crappy when he is 100% healthy. You have to see the difference.

I do not think anyone hear is proclaiming that Boller is better than McNair. I think what people are saying is that McNair is hurt and not 100% so he should not be playing. A 100% Boller is better than a 50% McNair and that is easy to see. Obviously you were able to see the difference based on your post above.

[Old#5fan]

I have no problem picking apart McNair. Especially that game that knocked us out of the playoffs last year. (God, that was ugly) But at least McNair has been there and proven he's a good QB. His main problem is that he's injury prone and consistently tries to play when he's not 100%. Boller on the other hand has done nothing that proves he's any better than a backup QB and somehow it's always someone else's fault. If I remember correctly, that was one of knocks on the team in 2005; that they were terrible at pass protection. So how is it that a healthy McNair took pretty much the same O-Line and went 13-3 last year?

Boller lovers can never explain that one but you will see some of them try to spin it that the defense carried the team last year (as if it wasn't as good when Boller was starting- what a joke).

[The Wedge]

Johnny Unitas' career quarterback rating: 78.2.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/09/23/mmqb.week3/4.html

[Old#5fan]

Who said he has to save our season? He is better then McNair is, probably even when McNair is healthy (since he hasn't thrown a successful 10+ yard pass since about Week 3...last year).


That's what they do.

B
We didn't have to. We would have won by 10 with Troy Smith at quarterback.


Because we would be whining about why McNair is stinking up the joint while Boller sits.

News flash. Boller has been averaging about the same yardage per passing attempt as McNair.:rolleyes:

[Night Owl]

Demetrius Williams looks like the real deal. We need to get him in the offense more. He caught anything around him that was catchable. Also how come we aren't throwing to Mark Clayton? Are they afraid of making Mason angry?

[Old#5fan]

Johnny Unitas' career quarterback rating: 78.2.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/09/23/mmqb.week3/4.html

Different era Sport. It is laughable that you are even trying to compare Boller to Unitas. Their only similiarity is they both had exceptionally long arms. I saw Unitas play in person. You would not be making such a ludicrous post if you had the same experience. If you think Kyle Boller is an adequate NFL QB I can only suggest that you start watching more games and in particular pay close attention to the following: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Ben Rothlesberger, Tony Romo, Donovan McNabb, Kurt Warner, Derek Anderson, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, and Phillip Rivers. Then start watching Boller. You will see the difference believe me. You cannot help but do so.

[The Wedge]

That wooshing sound you all heard? That was the point going right over heads.

[Old#5fan]

That wooshing sound you all heard? That was the point going right over heads.

Who is "you all." Is there a peanut gallery out there that I am not privy to?:rolleyes:

Please get back to me when you can post something concrete or remotely absolute to indicate why you think Kyle Boller gets such a bad rap as a QB. In other words why should anyone have faith in this guy to ever amount to anything more than what he has shown so far- which to refresh your memory is well below league average in virtually every positive category. I have a feeling I will be waiting for a long, long, time.

[bernie132000]

Different era sport. It is laughable that you are even trying to compare Boller to Unitas. Their only similiarity is they both had exceptionally long arms in common. I saw Unitas play in person. You would not be making such a ludicrous post if you had the same experience.

I am so sick of your Boller Bashing. It is apparent that you hate Boller for some unknown, irrational, reason. You have nothing to contribute besides, "oh look maybe if I yell loudest and most often maybe people will listen to me". We know your opinion but really no one cares because you have nothing to back it up. You seem to want Boller to fail, and don't care about how the Ravens do. The rest of us want the team to succeed and really don't care who the quarterback is who does that.

[Old#5fan]

I am so sick of your Boller Bashing. It is apparent that you hate Boller for some unknown, irrational, reason. You have nothing to contribute besides, "oh look maybe if I yell loudest and most often maybe people will listen to me". We know your opinion but really no one cares because you have nothing to back it up. You seem to want Boller to fail, and don't care about how the Ravens do. The rest of us want the team to succeed and really don't care who the quarterback is who does that.

I sure don't "want Boller to fail." He does that without my wanting anything. As a Ravens fan, I assure you we share the same goal and that is to win games. I could care less who quarterbacks if we win. However, Boller has never been good enough to beat any elite team and in my view doesn't have it in him to do so. Hence, I want him on the bench.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I am so sick of your Boller Bashing. It is apparent that you hate Boller for some unknown, irrational, reason. You have nothing to contribute besides, "oh look maybe if I yell loudest and most often maybe people will listen to me". We know your opinion but really no one cares because you have nothing to back it up. You seem to want Boller to fail, and don't care about how the Ravens do. The rest of us want the team to succeed and really don't care who the quarterback is who does that.

Don't bother. He couldn't last on the Sun boards with his opinions, so that should tell you everything. He's just an uninformed troller.

Just ignore him.

[The Wedge]

By the way, for anybody that might not have gotten my point, even though I posted the source: QB ratings are stupid.

[Old#5fan]

Don't bother. He couldn't last on the Sun boards with his opinions, so that should tell you everything. He's just an uninformed troller.

Just ignore him.

So who did you post as on the Sun boards? Just curious as you make a statement as if you know me from there and purportedly why I am not there? Of course you are wrong but I guess that is irrelevant eh?:rolleyes:

[BaltimoreTerp]

I do not think anyone hear is proclaiming that Boller is better than McNair. I think what people are saying is that McNair is hurt and not 100% so he should not be playing. A 100% Boller is better than a 50% McNair and that is easy to see. Obviously you were able to see the difference based on your post above.

I am.

McNair didn't look good last year. Here's what he did:


+---------------------------------------+
| Passing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+
| 2006 bal | 16 | 295 468 63.0 3050 6.5 16 12 |

Here is today's edition of "Name that Quarterback":


+---------------------------------------+
| Passing |
+-----+---------------------------------------+
| G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+
| 16 | 277 468 59.1 3124 6.8 25 23 |

HINT: Those numbers are prorated for a full season, since he only played about half.

So, he had a WORSE year then that quarterback LAST year.

[Old#5fan]

By the way, for anybody that might not have gotten my point, even though I posted the source: QB ratings are stupid.

So why are they stupid? You make a rather profound statement with nothing, nada, zilch, to support it.

For example, if Tom Brady has a 128 rating, the league average is 75 and Boller is 69 that means nothing to you or is as you eloquently term it is "stupid'? :confused:

Are you saying Brady and Boller are equally good?:eek:

[BaltimoreTerp]

By the way, for anybody that might not have gotten my point, even though I posted the source: QB ratings are stupid.

They are like batting average: it works as a quick, rough reference but doesn't tell enough of the story to matter much.

[The Wedge]

They are like batting average: it works as a quick, rough reference but doesn't tell enough of the story to matter much.

Pretty good analogy, yeah.

Is youknowwho talking to me? Because, I like, you know, can't see it.

[Sports Guy]

Oldfan...Do you think the offensive line played well today?

Do you think McGahee ran well today?

[Hank Scorpio]

Spot on post. Boller had zero TD passes, a fumble, a redzone pick, and a QB rating of 63.8 against one of the worst defenses in the NFL at home no less. Heck, if not for the defense this game would probably be tied still at 3-3 largely because Boller is about as clueless as you come for any NFL QB in his fifth season. We can all only hope and pray that McNair gets healthy for Buffalo next week or this team will not only lose to Buffalo, but kiss their realistic chances at the playoffs goodbye. Even with a healthy McNair its going to be a tremendous challenge. With McNair out and Boller in, this team has no chance period.

If you guys paid attention, you would have seen the ridiculous beating KB took the ENTIRE GAME. It's a friggin' miracle that the guy could walk off the field at the end of the game.

You guys have allowed yourselves to be blinded by the past, it's that simple.

[Old#5fan]

Oldfan...Do you think the offensive line played well today?

Do you think McGahee ran well today?

I think the OL played about as well as can be expected for a bunch of rookies and fill-ins. They weren't all that great last week either which is why I didn't understand all the McNair bashing. Yet Boller seems to get the OL as an excuse for his play at the same position? Seems like a double standard from my seat.

As far as McGahee running he at least scored a TD. Other than that there was not much running room for him on the plays called. A lot of that was the OL not blocking but also some of the play calls were ill-advised.

[Old#5fan]

If you guys paid attention, you would have seen the ridiculous beating KB took the ENTIRE GAME. It's a friggin' miracle that the guy could walk off the field at the end of the game.

You guys have allowed yourselves to be blinded by the past, it's that simple.

Part of that is a rookie OL and part of that is Boller's inability to make a decision/read and get rid of the ball more quickly like McNair does.

[Hank Scorpio]

I think the OL played about as well as can be expected for a bunch of rookies and fill-ins. They weren't all that great last week either which is why I didn't understand all the McNair bashing. Yet Boller seems to get the OL as an excuse for his play at the same position? Seems like a double standard from my seat.

They weren't great, but they were definitely more experienced. After Flynn and Terry went out of the game, you saw a lot more 3 step drops from McNair vs. San Francisco.

We're lucky Boller is still standing, because if he had come out of that game today, McNair might have gotten killed. Leonard Little ate Marshal Yanda's lunch all day long. Say what you want about Boller, but this team has legitimate confidence in him and frankly, they could care less about fan scrutiny.

We'll see Boller next week too. Since he's such a bumbling idiot, should we even bother to play the game?

[Hank Scorpio]

Part of that is a rookie OL and part of that is Boller's inability to make a decision/read and get rid of the ball more quickly like McNair does.

How many three step drops did you see today?

That's basically why you see less quick slants, etc... with Boller in there. They have more confidence in him to throw outs and 15-20 yard comebacks, which we saw a lot of today.

Another big issue this offense has is the routes we run. Not having Heap in there makes life very difficult, to be honest. You rarely see a pass play where more than one guy is running a route in excess of 10-15 yards, which makes it very easy for the free safety to double deep balls.

Boller knows this offense and considering the beating he took, I think he showed serious cahones today. He obviously didn't light it up, but part of that is rust and lack of reps w/ the first team.

[Old#5fan]

They weren't great, but they were definitely more experienced. After Flynn and Terry went out of the game, you saw a lot more 3 step drops from McNair vs. San Francisco.

We're lucky Boller is still standing, because if he had come out of that game today, McNair might have gotten killed. Leonard Little ate Marshal Yanda's lunch all day long. Say what you want about Boller, but this team has legitimate confidence in him and frankly, they could care less about fan scrutiny.

We'll see Boller next week too. Since he's such a bumbling idiot, should we even bother to play the game?

No, because at least it will show beyond all doubt that Boller is a liability as a road QB. Its a shame they have to sacrifice a game though to do it.

[Sports Guy]

[/B][/I]

No, because at least it will show beyond all doubt that Boller is a liability as a road QB. Its a shame they have to sacrifice a game though to do it.

McNair is 1-2 on the road this year and we only put up 9 points in the game we did win.

[66-70-83-??]

I think the OL played about as well as can be expected for a bunch of rookies and fill-ins. They weren't all that great last week either which is why I didn't understand all the McNair bashing. Yet Boller seems to get the OL as an excuse for his play at the same position? Seems like a double standard from my seat.

As far as McGahee running he at least scored a TD. Other than that there was not much running room for him on the plays called. A lot of that was the OL not blocking but also some of the play calls were ill-advised.

Criticizing Boller for not throwing a TD is ridiculous. The job of a QB is to drive the offense to score points, not to specifially pump up his own numbers. So, he should have passed instead of handing it off to McGahee ? :confused:

The Ravens put points on the board on 6 drives. Yes, more TD's would have been nice but they weren't needed. We weren't down at any point so Billick put Boller in a conservative game management mode.

Boller did fine today considering that he was taking a beating all game long.

The O-line was not too good today. It is understandable considering three rookies started, but it is a fact that they didn't protect him well or run block well.

Let's not forget that although the Rams are 0-6- they are still an NFL team.

The Rams defense put in a solid effort today. Their d-line is pretty good.

The important thing is that the Ravens won.

[Sports Guy]

BTW, the O-line also had some crippling penalties today that could have taken away TDs(one did take away a TD).

[66-70-83-??]

I sure don't "want Boller to fail."

You say that you dont want Boller to fail, but then you say this--




No, because at least it will show beyond all doubt that Boller is a liability as a road QB. Its a shame they have to sacrifice a game though to do it.

And you claim you don't want him to fail ?:confused:

And you expect to be taken seriously ?

Your credibility is shot.

[Old#5fan]

BTW, the O-line also had some crippling penalties today that could have taken away TDs(one did take away a TD).

Yes, and they have also had the same things happen with McNair but even though he was playing hurt he doesn't seem to get the same excuses that Boller repeatedly gets. I will never understand it, especially when Boller will never come close to putting up a career like Mcnair has. He just doesn't have the football instincts, judgment, and poise of a McNair. Not to mention the accuracy and ability to manuever in the pocket. How anyone can not see that is beyond me.:confused:

[ccbird]

As much as people like to cry about the Boller bashing, there are just as much Boller excuses. I have touched on Boller vs McNair so much that I'm not even going to get in to that debate again right now.


I'm going to simple talk about Boller and the subject of this thread. The thread starter is pretty much spot on. Boller is not improved enough or good enough to beat good teams and that is the bottom line because to win in this league you have to beat good teams eventually. I don't think anybody here really believes Boller is good enough to win multiple playoff games and take a team to the Superbowl. Boller is virtually the same QB that was playing in 2004 and 2005. He still has no pocket awareness, he still has no accuracy on 15+ yard passes, he still can't progress through reads and get rid of the ball on time. I won't even touch on his ability to protect the ball which I'll say he has improved but not greatly and not with enough snaps in the last two years to get a true read on. Go through any of the tools and intangibles you want in a good QB and Boller has maybe 2 that would pass, arm strenth and mobility.


I don't even care anymore about Boller vs McNair. I do believe McNair 100% gives us the best chance but I'll admit the difference is marginal. Whether it is Boller or McNair at this point there is no reason for me to believe we can win more than 10 games this year and a deep playoff run is out of the question. I will still live and die with every snap and be rooting my ass off but I've really tempered any expectations for the year. Going forward and finding the right guy for the future is my biggest concern and beyond 2008 McNair and Boller isn't that guy.

[Old#5fan]

You say that you dont want Boller to fail, but then you say this--



And you claim you don't want him to fail ?:confused:

And you expect to be taken seriously ?

Your credibility is shot.

I don't want him to fail, I just know as much as the Sun is going to rise tomorrow that he's no NFL starting QB.

[longflyball]

Old#5Fan,

Who are you arguing with? Noone here is saying that Boller is a great (or even a good) quarterback.

What is being said is that at this point in time Boller gives the team a better opportunity to win than McNair because McNair is hurt.

That is all.

Billick and McNair may be too blind or stubborn to realize it, but McNair's groin injury is having a negative impact on his ability to adequately perform. Given this, Boller should start.

Even if Boller sucks, he should start. Because McNair is hurt.

Okay?

[Sports Guy]

Yes, and they have also had the same things happen with McNair but even though he was playing hurt he doesn't seem to get the same excuses that Boller repeatedly gets. I will never understand it, especially when Boller will never come close to putting up a career like Mcnair has. He just doesn't have the football instincts, judgment, and poise of a McNair. Not to mention the accuracy and ability to manuever in the pocket. How anyone can not see that is beyond me.:confused:

Well McNair is so good that he should be able to get over these things. :rolleyes:

[Old#5fan]

Old#5Fan,

Who are you arguing with? Noone here is saying that Boller is a great (or even a good) quarterback.

What is being said is that at this point in time Boller gives the team a better opportunity to win than McNair because McNair is hurt.

That is all.

Billick and McNair may be too blind or stubborn to realize it, but McNair's groin injury is having a negative impact on his ability to adequately perform. Given this, Boller should start.

Even if Boller sucks, he should start. Because McNair is hurt.

Okay?

I have no problem with your argument. However, I have a big problem with posters posting total inaccurate falsehoods about how much better Boller is at throwing the ball down field. Boller is terrible at completing long passes. He always has been. He aims the ball instead of throwing it with a horrid shot putting motion like he is throwing darts which consistently leads to under throws in the middle of the field and over throws down the sidelines. People who think otherwise are simply living in denial or not watching the games. Boller is never going to be good enough because he uses poor technique and has poor pocket presense, awareness and poise.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Guess no one (at lease no one that has been watching football for 300 years or whatever) wants to play "Name that Quarterback"?

Or was it too obvious :D

[Sports Guy]

I have no problem with your argument. However, I have a big problem with posters posting total inaccurate falsehoods about how much better Boller is at throwing the ball down field. Boller is terrible at completing long passes. He always has been. He aims the ball instead of throwing it with a horrid shot putting motion like he is throwing darts which consistently leads to under throws in the middle of the field and over throws down the sidelines. People who think otherwise are simply living in denial or not watching the games. Boller is never going to be good enough because he uses poor technique and has poor pocket presense, awareness and poise.

The last 2 years, Boller has a 48% completion percentage on passes from 11 yards and further. BTW, this doesn't include today.

In that same time span, McNair has a 42% completion percentage doing the same thing.

Now, McNair obviously had more oppurtunities but still, this shows him to be more accurate.

BTW, in 2004 and 2005, when Boller clearly wasn't ready but still starting he still had around a 37% completion percentage in these situations...Not that far off from where McNair has right now.

So, oldfan, you really aren't correct in this, at least if you compare him to McNair.

[Old#5fan]

Well McNair is so good that he should be able to get over these things. :rolleyes:

I thought you espoused he wasn't as good as Boller? Maybe you need to make up your mind on your position instead of waffling back and forth? You cannot have it both ways.:confused:

[Old#5fan]

The last 2 years, Boller has a 48% completion percentage on passes from 11 yards and further. BTW, this doesn't include today.

In that same time span, McNair has a 42% completion percentage doing the same thing.

Now, McNair obviously had more oppurtunities but still, this shows him to be more accurate.

BTW, in 2004 and 2005, when Boller clearly wasn't ready but still starting he still had around a 37% completion percentage in these situations...Not that far off from where McNair has right now.

So, oldfan, you really aren't correct in this, at least if you compare him to McNair.


Check out thirty yards or further where I think you will find that McNair is clearly superior. Thirty and more is considered a "deep pass" something that many seem to espouse that Boller is good at when the exact opposite is the case.

[HoodGuy007]

I thought you espoused he wasn't as good as Boller? Maybe you need to make up your mind on your position instead of waffling back and forth? You cannot have it both ways.:confused:
Did you notice that the comment was oozing, dripping, and otherwise reeking of sarcasm? As a Dolphins fan, I don't understand how anyone at this point can espouse that Kyle Boller does not deserve this job. He is a MUCH better option than McNair, and he needs a pocket to develop a la Eli Manning. Giving any quarterback other than Tommy and Peyton 2 seconds or less means you have lost the ball game... well... unless you are playing the Rams and the Phins. :(

[Sports Guy]

Check out thirty yards or further where I think you will find that McNair is clearly superior. Thirty and more is considered a "deep pass" something that many seem to espouse that Boller is good at when the exact opposite is the case.

Boller is 2-7(again, not including today..he completed 1...Not sure how many he threw) over the last 2 years...So, Boller is around a 30% completion %

McNair is 7-19...Completion % around 37%

Now, one thing(and i stress one thing) you are right on is that McNair was excellent throwing 30 yards and beyond last year...His QB rating was over 100...He completed just under 50%(7-15) and was better than most at that last year.

However, that hasn't been the case this year, as he is 0-4 thus far.

BTW, since not many passes are thrown from 30 yards and beyond, we should look at the 11-30 yard range....That range has McNair at a 43% completion % the last 2 years.

Boller was at 54% in those ranges the last 2 years but again, that doesn't include today and that is in a much smaller sample size than McNair.

In 2004 and 2005, when Boller played more and had a larger sample size, his completion % from 11-30 yards was 41%...Only 2% off from McNair the last 2 years.

Again, I want to see Steve Mac healthy and given the chance. I do not think Boller should start over a healthy McNair at this time. I may change my mind about that after seeing McNair play healthy if he is still struggling but i do think he has earned the right to be the starter as long as he is healthy.

[The Wedge]

It's like some recurring nightmare. Or Groundhog Day, where we are doomed to have the same argument over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Or it's like we're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting...

[Old#5fan]

Boller is 2-7(again, not including today..he completed 1...Not sure how many he threw) over the last 2 years...So, Boller is around a 30% completion %

McNair is 7-19...Completion % around 37%

Now, one thing(and i stress one thing) you are right on is that McNair was excellent throwing 30 yards and beyond last year...His QB rating was over 100...He completed just under 50%(7-15) and was better than most at that last year.

However, that hasn't been the case this year, as he is 0-4 thus far.

BTW, since not many passes are thrown from 30 yards and beyond, we should look at the 11-30 yard range....That range has McNair at a 43% completion % the last 2 years.

Boller was at 54% in those ranges the last 2 years but again, that doesn't include today and that is in a much smaller sample size than McNair.

In 2004 and 2005, when Boller played more and had a larger sample size, his completion % from 11-30 yards was 41%...Only 2% off from McNair the last 2 years.

Again, I want to see Steve Mac healthy and given the chance. I do not think Boller should start over a healthy McNair at this time. I may change my mind about that after seeing McNair play healthy if he is still struggling but i do think he has earned the right to be the starter as long as he is healthy.

Funny, after checking the stats you suddenly seem to be getting much wiser in your take and your posts on this subject. Good to see it!:)

[Sports Guy]

Funny, after checking the stats you suddenly seem to be getting much wiser in your take and your posts on this subject. Good to see it!:)

Huh? I have been saying the same thing all year.

And btw, the stats are a lot closer than you want to say.

[Old#5fan]

It's like some recurring nightmare. Or Groundhog Day, where we are doomed to have the same argument over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Or it's like we're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting...

Maybe you should adopt Sports Guy's approach and view the stats since you cannot seem to observe what is accurately the case when evaluating McNair versus Boller?:confused: BTW there is no argument. A healthy McNair is always going to be better than a healthy Boller. The only argument is whether a healthy Boller is better than an injured McNair.

[Sports Guy]

Maybe you should adopt Sports Guy's approach and view the stats since you cannot seem to observe what is accurately the case when evaluating McNair versus Boller?:confused:

The stats are actually hurting you, not helping you...You do realize that, right?

[Old#5fan]

Huh? I have been saying the same thing all year.

And btw, the stats are a lot closer than you want to say.

Saying what? All I seem to read from you is how much better Boller would be than McNair. Right or wrong?:confused: McNair has a better QB rating than Boller and also better stats at completing the deep pass since taking over as the Ravens QB when you combine his stats from last year through this year. What other proof do you need. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades! Mcnair is better, admit it.!:p

[Sports Guy]

Saying what? All I seem to read from you is how much better Boller would be than McNair. Right or wrong?:confused:

Boller is better than McNair right now...I have said that all year...McNair isn't healthy.

Is Boller better than a healthy McNair? I am not sure...It wouldn't surprise me at this point in his McNair's career but it really isn't fair to judge McNair on this year and the last 2 games last year.

Now, perhaps it is a trend but nonetheless, he deserves the chance to prove himself when he is 100% healthy.

Until he is healthy, he isn't a better option than Boller...It is that simple.

McNair would have been much worse than Boller today if the line played the same exact way.

[Sports Guy]

Saying what? All I seem to read from you is how much better Boller would be than McNair. Right or wrong?:confused: McNair has a better QB rating than Boller and also better stats at completing the deep pass since taking over as the Ravens QB when you combine his stats from last year through this year. What other proof do you need. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades! Mcnair is better, admit it.!:p

You are talking about 19 passes....NINETEEN!!!

That is a very small sample size and really, it isn't even worth talking about all that much because it isn't a huge part of the offense. Hell, chucking the ball 30+ yards downfield isn't a part of most team's offense.

Right now, Boller is better at that because McNair can't step into his throws..The stats back that up albeit in a very small sample size.

Throw the ball 11-30 yards down the field and the stats tell you that Boller has been better the last 2 years.

[The Wedge]

The stats are actually hurting you, not helping you...You do realize that, right?

Probably not, considering he hasn't realized that replying to me is kind of, like, pointless.

[Sports Guy]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-reportcard1014,0,4838108.story

Pretty good assessments by Preston.

[Sports Guy]

From Peter King's latest MMQB article:



f. Kyle Boller's no Brady, but I like what I see in his field presence and accuracy.

[The Wedge]

Peter King must not watch the games. /typical response

[Mackus]

A healthy Boller is a far better option than an injured McNair, thats not even debateable, IMO. We haven't seen a healthy McNair, and I don't think we ever will again, but then it could at least be debated. I'd still go with Boller though, I think McNair is washed up as a useful NFL QB.

[Old#5fan]

A healthy Boller is a far better option than an injured McNair, thats not even debateable, IMO. We haven't seen a healthy McNair, and I don't think we ever will again, but then it could at least be debated. I'd still go with Boller though, I think McNair is washed up as a useful NFL QB.

I find it interesting to note that Boller is now number 32 in league ratings (about normal for him based on his career) with a 76.7 rating (somewhat higher than his career average around 70) and McNair is number 30 with an 80.2 rating despite playing injured so far this season.

So at least based on QB ratings, those espousing Boller is a better option than an injured McNair are not supported. Although, I do think that McNair needs to recover and for that reason Boller needs to start until he does. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the suggestion that Boller is now a better QB than McNair when healthy. That is a far cry from being true.

[66-70-83-??]

I find it interesting to note that Boller is now number 32 in league ratings (about normal for him based on his career) with a 76.7 rating (somewhat higher than his career average around 70) and McNair is number 30 with an 80.2 rating despite playing injured so far this season.

So at least based on QB ratings, those espousing Boller is a better option than an injured McNair are not supported. Although, I do think that McNair needs to recover and for that reason Boller needs to start until he does. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the suggestion that Boller is now a better QB than McNair when healthy. That is a far cry from being true.

Boller's QB rating isn't great.

But, this Sunday- Billick clearly put him in game management mode because we were up. Plus, he was running for his life on every play. He didnt exactly have the opportunity to pump up the personal stats. He did win the game. He has won each of the games he has started. He is making good decisions on throwing the ball away- as opposed to holding (and fumbling) it and taking a hit.

If you have actually watched the games- overall, Boller has looked better than McNair.

McNair looked absolutely terrible at times this year.

Since you want to hang your hat on the QB Rating- then Boller is a better QB than Bulger, Brees, Young, Green, right ?

And Pennington and Harrington are better than McNair, right ?

[Sports Guy]

I find it interesting to note that Boller is now number 32 in league ratings (about normal for him based on his career) with a 76.7 rating (somewhat higher than his career average around 70) and McNair is number 30 with an 80.2 rating despite playing injured so far this season.

So at least based on QB ratings, those espousing Boller is a better option than an injured McNair are not supported. Although, I do think that McNair needs to recover and for that reason Boller needs to start until he does. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the suggestion that Boller is now a better QB than McNair when healthy. That is a far cry from being true.

If fumbles lost were part of the QB rating system, McNair would be 33 on that list.

[Old#5fan]

Boller's QB rating isn't great.

But, this Sunday- Billick clearly put him in game management mode because we were up. Plus, he was running for his life on every play. He didnt exactly have the opportunity to pump up the personal stats. He did win the game. He has won each of the games he has started. He is making good decisions on throwing the ball away- as opposed to holding (and fumbling) it and taking a hit.

If you have actually watched the games- overall, Boller has looked better than McNair.

.
McNair looked absolutely terrible at times this year.

Since you want to hang your hat on the QB Rating- then Boller is a better QB than Bulger, Brees, Young, Green, right ?

And Pennington and Harrington are better than McNair, right ?

No, of course not. However, you need to look at the proper volume of work which consistently shows beyond any shadow of a doubt that Steve McNair was always and even now while injured a higher rated QB than Kyle Boller. I do watch the games and Boller still is not good enough to ever regain a starting job in this league period. He is a backup period and not an all that good one at that. There are better backups out there.

You can espouse Billick had Boller in game management mode and he did no doubt, but to me all that would be is Billick's non-verbal statement that he simply doesn't trust Boller all that much. The bitter truth is that the Rams are the worst team in the NFL right now. Even Bill Parcells said it on National television last night that the Rams probably have the worst defense in the league to go along with their crappy offense which has been plagued by injuries. With that in mind the Ravens defense picked off FIVE passes and the Boller led offense managed one TD at home against the worst team in the league. Now just how much does that say for the ability of Boller? He is going to get eaten alive by the Bills defense, I hate to think what will happen.

[Hank Scorpio]

No, of course not. However, you need to look at the proper volume of work which consistently shows beyond any shadow of a doubt that Steve McNair was always and even now while injured a higher rated QB than Kyle Boller. I do watch the games and Boller still is not good enough to ever regain a starting job in this league period. He is a backup period and not an all that good one at that. There are better backups out there.

The bitter truth is that the Rams are the worst team in the NFL right now. Even Bill Parcells said it on National television last night that the Rams probably have the worst defense in the league to go along with their crappy offense which has been plagued by injuries. With that in mind the Ravens defense picked off FIVE passes and the Boller led offense managed one TD at home against the worst team in the league. Now just how much does that say for the ability of Boller? He is going to get eaten alive by the Bills defense, I hate to think what will happen.

Why is it the "bitter truth?" We dominated the football game.

It's not like Boller played poorly against them despite taking the pounding of his life. The bitter truth is that we trotted out the worst offensive line in the NFL right now on Sunday and said, "Kid, go take your whoopin' and get us to the bye week." Objective onlookers (like Peter King) saw Boller do about as good a job as could be expected considering we couldn't run the ball, didn't have Heap, and trotted out Jared Gaither, Marshal Yanda, Chester and Grubbs. What do you want from the kid, my man?!?!?!


You can espouse Billick had Boller in game management mode and he did no doubt, but to me all that would be is Billick's non-verbal statement that he simply doesn't trust Boller all that much.

That is the only mode that Baltimore Ravens quarterbacks have, I don't care who they are. And what are you basing the latter part of that sentence on?

I think it's funny that you're basing your opinion of the current Boller on what you saw two years ago. That's your perogative... but it's a flawed perspective.

[Hank Scorpio]

No, of course not. However, you need to look at the proper volume of work which consistently shows beyond any shadow of a doubt that Steve McNair was always and even now while injured a higher rated QB than Kyle Boller. I do watch the games and Boller still is not good enough to ever regain a starting job in this league period. He is a backup period and not an all that good one at that. There are better backups out there.

You can espouse Billick had Boller in game management mode and he did no doubt, but to me all that would be is Billick's non-verbal statement that he simply doesn't trust Boller all that much. The bitter truth is that the Rams are the worst team in the NFL right now. Even Bill Parcells said it on National television last night that the Rams probably have the worst defense in the league to go along with their crappy offense which has been plagued by injuries. With that in mind the Ravens defense picked off FIVE passes and the Boller led offense managed one TD at home against the worst team in the league. Now just how much does that say for the ability of Boller? He is going to get eaten alive by the Bills defense, I hate to think what will happen.

I can't imagine he'll get eaten alive any more than he did on Sunday.

[Sports Guy]

No, of course not. However, you need to look at the proper volume of work which consistently shows beyond any shadow of a doubt that Steve McNair was always and even now while injured a higher rated QB than Kyle Boller. I do watch the games and Boller still is not good enough to ever regain a starting job in this league period. He is a backup period and not an all that good one at that. There are better backups out there.

You can espouse Billick had Boller in game management mode and he did no doubt, but to me all that would be is Billick's non-verbal statement that he simply doesn't trust Boller all that much. The bitter truth is that the Rams are the worst team in the NFL right now. Even Bill Parcells said it on National television last night that the Rams probably have the worst defense in the league to go along with their crappy offense which has been plagued by injuries. With that in mind the Ravens defense picked off FIVE passes and the Boller led offense managed one TD at home against the worst team in the league. Now just how much does that say for the ability of Boller? He is going to get eaten alive by the Bills defense, I hate to think what will happen.
Have you looked at the Buffalo stats?

They are 32nd in the NFL in total defense(that is done by yardage)...WORST in the NFL.

They give up the 25th most rushing YPG and you know McGahee wants to go up there and have a big game.

They are 31st in passing yards allowed per game....Next to last.

They are 21st in points allowed.

They are tied for last in sacks.

I thought their defense was better but it is awful.....Our line is very young and that evens things out somewhat but still, we should be ok here.

[biggsy]

If fumbles lost were part of the QB rating system, McNair would be 33 on that list.

Come on now, do you really wanna bring up fumbling problems while trying to make an argument to HELP Boller ?



Why is it the "bitter truth?" We dominated the football game.

It's not like Boller played poorly against them despite taking the pounding of his life. The bitter truth is that we trotted out the worst offensive line in the NFL right now on Sunday and said, "Kid, go take your whoopin' and get us to the bye week." Objective onlookers (like Peter King) saw Boller do about as good a job as could be expected considering we couldn't run the ball, didn't have Heap, and trotted out Jared Gaither, Marshal Yanda, Chester and Grubbs. What do you want from the kid, my man?!?!?!.

No, Boller didn't play poorly. He by no means played good at all either. He had an average performance. The worst offensive line comment is far from the truth. They are young and inexpeirenced but they all have tremendous talent. On the interception in the redzone you blame on the O-line, it's not all Gaithers fault on that play. He forced the DE to an outside rush, IF Boller steps up in the pocket Gaither continues to push the DE completely out of the play. Instead Bollers amazing pocket awareness shows its ugly head again and he gets hit while throwing the ball right to the defender.

And do you find it funny at all that when Boller has been the QB McGahee seems to have zero running room ? I'm honestly not saying there is a direct correlation to this, but it just seems like McGahee has no where to run with Boller in the game and with McNair he seems to have holes open up. It's kind of weird considering Boller has been throwing downfield more then McNair so far this year. The only thing I can think of is even though teams know Boller can throw downfield, they still have no respect for his ability to get it in his WR's hands on deep passes.





That is the only mode that Baltimore Ravens quarterbacks have, I don't care who they are. And what are you basing the latter part of that sentence on?

I think it's funny that you're basing your opinion of the current Boller on what you saw two years ago. That's your perogative... but it's a flawed perspective.


As is your perspective of McNair this year. Boller is a slightly better QB then he was 2 years ago. He has old habits that just seem like they are not going to go away. Pocket awareness is something that you can't just learn. It comes naturally. Boller doesn't have it at all, he steps up into the pocket when he should roll out and rolls out when he should step up way too much. You watch McNair in the pocket and the mans pocket awareness may be just as good as Peyton's and Brady's. His feel for where the perssure is and how to avoid it is amazing. Boller on the other hand is hard to watch.

As far as throwing passes, reading the defenses and protecting the ball, McNair is still far superior to Boller in 2 of those 3. No doubt Boller has a better arm then McNair at this point, even when McNairs 100% Boller has the better arm, anyone arguing that should be shot. However Boller still has lapses where he just reads the defense wrong and either sees a blitz that never comes or doesn't see a blitz that gets him killed. Now as far as protecting the ball, McNair is far from Tom Brady in this category, but he still does a very good job of protecting the ball with the lead. Most of his mistakes seem to happen while trying to play from behind. And you don't even want me to bring this up with Boller. With the game being only 13-0 Boller decides to hold on to the ball instead of throw it away outside of the pocket and fumbles right to St. Loius. It easily could have been a 6 point game after that play and a completely different game. Those are the things you just CAN'T do as a starting QB.

[Hank Scorpio]

Come on now, do you really wanna bring up fumbling problems while trying to make an argument to HELP Boller ?




No, Boller didn't play poorly. He by no means played good at all either. He had an average performance. The worst offensive line comment is far from the truth. They are young and inexpeirenced but they all have tremendous talent. On the interception in the redzone you blame on the O-line, it's not all Gaithers fault on that play. He forced the DE to an outside rush, IF Boller steps up in the pocket Gaither continues to push the DE completely out of the play. Instead Bollers amazing pocket awareness shows its ugly head again and he gets hit while throwing the ball right to the defender.

And do you find it funny at all that when Boller has been the QB McGahee seems to have zero running room ? I'm honestly not saying there is a direct correlation to this, but it just seems like McGahee has no where to run with Boller in the game and with McNair he seems to have holes open up. It's kind of weird considering Boller has been throwing downfield more then McNair so far this year. The only thing I can think of is even though teams know Boller can throw downfield, they still have no respect for his ability to get it in his WR's hands on deep passes.







As is your perspective of McNair this year. Boller is a slightly better QB then he was 2 years ago. He has old habits that just seem like they are not going to go away. Pocket awareness is something that you can't just learn. It comes naturally. Boller doesn't have it at all, he steps up into the pocket when he should roll out and rolls out when he should step up way too much. You watch McNair in the pocket and the mans pocket awareness may be just as good as Peyton's and Brady's. His feel for where the perssure is and how to avoid it is amazing. Boller on the other hand is hard to watch.

As far as throwing passes, reading the defenses and protecting the ball, McNair is still far superior to Boller in 2 of those 3. No doubt Boller has a better arm then McNair at this point, even when McNairs 100% Boller has the better arm, anyone arguing that should be shot. However Boller still has lapses where he just reads the defense wrong and either sees a blitz that never comes or doesn't see a blitz that gets him killed. Now as far as protecting the ball, McNair is far from Tom Brady in this category, but he still does a very good job of protecting the ball with the lead. Most of his mistakes seem to happen while trying to play from behind. And you don't even want me to bring this up with Boller. With the game being only 13-0 Boller decides to hold on to the ball instead of throw it away outside of the pocket and fumbles right to St. Loius. It easily could have been a 6 point game after that play and a completely different game. Those are the things you just CAN'T do as a starting QB.

Biggs, that offensive line was horrible on Sunday, period. Boller got absolutely killed, the worst beating he's ever taken as a professional (according to.... Kyle Boller). Watch the game again. They may be talented, but inexperience will get you pancaked against Leonard Little. Ask Marshal Yanda. When you're chipping BOTH defensive ends on every play, it limits your passing options.

[The Wedge]

I'm forced to believe that Boller would have to cure cancer, walk on water, and buy everyone in Baltimore a nice steak dinner before some people would even pronounce him as passable.

Yup yup yup.

[Sports Guy]

Come on now, do you really wanna bring up fumbling problems while trying to make an argument to HELP Boller ?All I am saying is that McNair has turned the ball over a lot and that isn't reflected in QB rating.



No, Boller didn't play poorly. He by no means played good at all either. He had an average performance. And he did it behind a bad line on Sunday....Better game than McNair likely plays.
The worst offensive line comment is far from the truth. They are young and inexpeirenced but they all have tremendous talent.Tons of talent is right....But that doesn't take away from the fact that they were awful the other day. Anyone denying that has no idea what they are talking
about. On the interception in the redzone you blame on the O-line, it's not all Gaithers fault on that play. He forced the DE to an outside rush, IF Boller steps up in the pocket Gaither continues to push the DE completely out of the play. Actually, that rush was from the right side i think, so it was Yanda....And the DLineman was pushed into Boller as he was throwing....Not Boller's fault at all.
Instead Bollers amazing pocket awareness shows its ugly head again and he gets hit while throwing the ball right to the defender.Most QBs probably get picked off there.


And do you find it funny at all that when Boller has been the QB McGahee seems to have zero running room ?LOL..This is hilarious...Do you think that the Rams played 8 in the box just because of Boller? You don't think they would have said, make McNair beat us? You are fooling yourself if you believe that.
I'm honestly not saying there is a direct correlation to this, but it just seems like McGahee has no where to run with Boller in the game and with McNair he seems to have holes open up. Probably because Boller has started 2 games and one of them was McGahee's worse game of the year. he ran well against the Jets when Boller started. Just you hating on Boller and trying to find an excuse.



However Boller still has lapses where he just reads the defense wrong and either sees a blitz that never comes or doesn't see a blitz that gets him killedAnd i suppose McNair doesn't?

Did you see McNair throw a pick earlier this year when he locked on Heap the whole time?

Where was your rant about that when McNair did that? How about all the fumbles against Cincy??

My guess is if Boller does those things, you and the peanut gallery are crying about it...McNair does it and it is no big deal.

[MPK76]

Here is an article from todays Sun. Jamison Hensley rates the QB's.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.ravens16oct16001521,0,7743719.story?page=2


A comparison of the Ravens' quarterbacks:

Accuracy
McNair surprisingly has a 65.6 percent completion rate - which is better than his team record from last season - but it doesn't seem he has put the ball in the right spots as he did a season ago.

Because of his injured groin, he has not followed through on his passes, which have tended to sail high or behind his receivers on the intermediate routes. Still, McNair has the best touch of any quarterback under Billick.

Boller is becoming more consistent with his throws and has completed 63 percent of his passes this season. Yet he goes through stretches when he doesn't know when to put zip or touch on the pass.
Edge: Even, until McNair fully recovers.


Making big plays
The Ravens' coaches and players have repeatedly said they use the same playbook whether it's McNair or Boller at quarterback.

But it's apparent that Boller is looking downfield more often than McNair, whose bombs were weekly highlights on SportsCenter years ago. Boller has completed more passes of 20 yards or more (five) than McNair (three) on 76 fewer pass attempts.

Of Boller's 51 completions, five have gone for more than 20 yards (9.8 percent). Of McNair's 103 completions, he has connected on just three such throws (2.9 percent).

Combining a stronger arm with a riskier attitude, Boller is more of a threat to stretch defenses than McNair.

Edge: Boller


Decision-making
Boller might be the better playmaker at this point, but McNair is still the best caretaker.

After the error-filled season opener, McNair has two turnovers in three games and hasn't put the team in position to lose with a crucial mistake. Last season, he had the second-longest streak in team history without an interception (162 straight pass attempts).

Boller has improved his ball security significantly since his three years as the starter, but he continues to make errors at the worst times. His two interceptions this season have come in the red zone.

Edge: McNair


Mobility
One reason the Ravens will be keeping Boller as the starter is his ability to escape the constant pressure behind a young offensive line.

Putting a banged-up McNair behind this line would only get him hurt worse.

Even when healthy, McNair won't break many 10-yard scrambles, but he does have the pocket awareness to take a couple of steps away from the pressure and make the throw.

Boller is one of the more athletic quarterbacks in the league and can gain yardage when protection breaks down.

Edge: Boller


Leadership
The personalities of McNair and Boller are opposite.

McNair is one of the most laid-back players on the team, but Boller is full of energy. The calming presence of McNair was the biggest reason the Ravens won games late in the fourth quarter last season and turned around their troublesome road play.

Boller has yet to prove he can consistently lead the Ravens on the road. He has hasn't won on the road since Nov. 14, 2004.

He will try to end his seven-game road losing streak Sunday in Buffalo.

Edge: McNair

[Hank Scorpio]

And he did it behind a bad line on Sunday....Better game than McNair likely plays.

If McNair would have played on Sunday, he would have taken probably 8 sacks.

[Old#5fan]

Why is it the "bitter truth?" We dominated the football game.

It's not like Boller played poorly against them despite taking the pounding of his life. The bitter truth is that we trotted out the worst offensive line in the NFL right now on Sunday and said, "Kid, go take your whoopin' and get us to the bye week." Objective onlookers (like Peter King) saw Boller do about as good a job as could be expected considering we couldn't run the ball, didn't have Heap, and trotted out Jared Gaither, Marshal Yanda, Chester and Grubbs. What do you want from the kid, my man?!?!?!



That is the only mode that Baltimore Ravens quarterbacks have, I don't care who they are. And what are you basing the latter part of that sentence on?

I think it's funny that you're basing your opinion of the current Boller on what you saw two years ago. That's your perogative... but it's a flawed perspective.

Boller is certainly not a "kid" any longer in terms of NFL experience. He is a veteran now in his fifth year in the league and should be in the prime of his career. If a zero TD pass, one lost fumble, one redzone pick and a rating of 63.8 against the worst team in the league at home is a good performance, I will eat my hat!

[Old#5fan]

If fumbles lost were part of the QB rating system, McNair would be 33 on that list.

He had one bad game largely as a result of a groin injury he sustained early on by crappy pass protection which is the same excuse many give Boller for his ineptitude. Boller has made a career out of turning the ball over as his 70 rating for his career and horrid road record attests. Again McNair had a one terrible game, largely due to playing hurt, Boller has had a whole career of playing crappy when not hurt. You weigh it out and you would not be making posts bashing McNair and praising Boller.

[Hank Scorpio]

Boller is certainly not a "kid" any longer in terms of NFL experience. He is a veteran now in his fifth year in the league and should be in the prime of his career. If a zero TD pass, one lost fumble, one redzone pick and a rating of 63.8 against the worst team in the league at home is a good performance, I will eat my hat!

Okay, well call him a man, then.

What do you want from the man under those circumstances? Honestly... what do you expect?

[Old#5fan]

Come on now, do you really wanna bring up fumbling problems while trying to make an argument to HELP Boller ?




No, Boller didn't play poorly. He by no means played good at all either. He had an average performance. The worst offensive line comment is far from the truth. They are young and inexpeirenced but they all have tremendous talent. On the interception in the redzone you blame on the O-line, it's not all Gaithers fault on that play. He forced the DE to an outside rush, IF Boller steps up in the pocket Gaither continues to push the DE completely out of the play. Instead Bollers amazing pocket awareness shows its ugly head again and he gets hit while throwing the ball right to the defender.

And do you find it funny at all that when Boller has been the QB McGahee seems to have zero running room ? I'm honestly not saying there is a direct correlation to this, but it just seems like McGahee has no where to run with Boller in the game and with McNair he seems to have holes open up. It's kind of weird considering Boller has been throwing downfield more then McNair so far this year. The only thing I can think of is even though teams know Boller can throw downfield, they still have no respect for his ability to get it in his WR's hands on deep passes.







As is your perspective of McNair this year. Boller is a slightly better QB then he was 2 years ago. He has old habits that just seem like they are not going to go away. Pocket awareness is something that you can't just learn. It comes naturally. Boller doesn't have it at all, he steps up into the pocket when he should roll out and rolls out when he should step up way too much. You watch McNair in the pocket and the mans pocket awareness may be just as good as Peyton's and Brady's. His feel for where the perssure is and how to avoid it is amazing. Boller on the other hand is hard to watch.

As far as throwing passes, reading the defenses and protecting the ball, McNair is still far superior to Boller in 2 of those 3. No doubt Boller has a better arm then McNair at this point, even when McNairs 100% Boller has the better arm, anyone arguing that should be shot. However Boller still has lapses where he just reads the defense wrong and either sees a blitz that never comes or doesn't see a blitz that gets him killed. Now as far as protecting the ball, McNair is far from Tom Brady in this category, but he still does a very good job of protecting the ball with the lead. Most of his mistakes seem to happen while trying to play from behind. And you don't even want me to bring this up with Boller. With the game being only 13-0 Boller decides to hold on to the ball instead of throw it away outside of the pocket and fumbles right to St. Loius. It easily could have been a 6 point game after that play and a completely different game. Those are the things you just CAN'T do as a starting QB.

I am so glad someone else on this thread sees the truth when watching Mcnair versus Boller. Boller is indeed, painful to watch most times he drops back. Even into his fifth season he makes boneheaded rookie mistakes. You watch and see, he is going to lose the Buffalo game by turnovers. I almos guarantee it and some will still be saying it was either the line, or the receivers, blah, blah, blah, when it is Kyle Boller who is the main problem.

[NewMarketSean]

What kills me is that when you look at the numbers, there is no difference between Boller and McNair. Matter of fact, Boller's numbers are a little better when you factor in the fumbles. And then take into account Boller's 2 INT's wre from a dropped Heap pass and getting hit while throwing.

Yet most people bash Boller and praise McNair. Strange.

[The Wedge]

What kills me is that when you look at the numbers, there is no difference between Boller and McNair. Matter of fact, Boller's numbers are a little better when you factor in the fumbles. And then take into account Boller's 2 INT's wre from a dropped Heap pass and getting hit while throwing.

Yet most people bash Boller and praise McNair. Strange.

That's what kills you? ;)

[Old#5fan]

What kills me is that when you look at the numbers, there is no difference between Boller and McNair. Matter of fact, Boller's numbers are a little better when you factor in the fumbles. And then take into account Boller's 2 INT's wre from a dropped Heap pass and getting hit while throwing.

Yet most people bash Boller and praise McNair. Strange.

What is strange about it? You apparently overlook the fact McNair was playing injured whereas Boller was not. You also over look the fact that the injury to McNair likely played a big part in all his turnovers in the game against the Bengals (again common sense and based on fact).

You also seem to overlook or minimize the fact that for his career McNair is a proven success and Boller, uh is not (and that is being kind). You also overlook the fact that just last year (his first as a Raven) Mcnair far outperformed any season of Boller by helping the team go 12-3 in the games he started and finished. Whereas Boller barely has a winning record, and stats comparable to Anthony Wright who essentially put up the same numbers as Boller when they were teammates.

[Sports Guy]

What is strange about it? You apparently overlook the fact McNair was playing injured whereas Boller was not. You also over look the fact that the injury to McNair likely played a big part in all his turnovers in the game against the Bengals (again common sense and based on fact). You also overlook the fact that for his career McNair is a proven success and Boller, uh is not (and that is being kind). You also overlook the fact that last year (his first as a Raven) Mcnair far outperformed Boller by helping the team go 12-3 in the games he started and finished. Whereas Boller barely has a winning record, and stats comparable to Anthony Wright who essentially put up the same numbers as Boller when they were teammates.

And when McNair played, the offense was healthier, specifically the line.

Also, to bring up McNair's past, at this point, is really worthless...He isn't the same QB he was even 2-3 years ago.

Now, i do agree that we need to see him healthy to fully gauge him right now.

However, you are too wrapped in the pasts of both QBs and not opening your eyes to the present.

Hemsley's article was pretty accurate IMO.

[NewMarketSean]

What is strange about it? You apparently overlook the fact McNair was playing injured whereas Boller was not. You also over look the fact that the injury to McNair likely played a big part in all his turnovers in the game against the Bengals (again common sense and based on fact).

You also seem to overlook or minimize the fact that for his career McNair is a proven success and Boller, uh is not (and that is being kind). You also overlook the fact that just last year (his first as a Raven) Mcnair far outperformed any season of Boller by helping the team go 12-3 in the games he started and finished. Whereas Boller barely has a winning record, and stats comparable to Anthony Wright who essentially put up the same numbers as Boller when they were teammates.

Now who's making excuses? :rolleyes:

[biggsy]

All I am saying is that McNair has turned the ball over a lot and that isn't reflected in QB rating..

Except for the fact that after the opener he's turned it over I think something like 2 times. Not bad at all for a 3 game stretch.

And for the haters of the QB rating, it is the most effective way to rate QBs in todays NFL. It factors in the % of passes completed, TDs, INTs and the amount of yards per pass. It's not a coincidence that the best rated passers in the league have teams putting up good offensive numbers and usually a very good record. This year the top 5 are Tom Brady (6-0, #1 offense), Jake Delhomme (team as 2-1 before his injury and had the #7 offense at the time), Peyton Manning (5-0, #3 offense), David Gerrard (4-1, #7 offense), Jeff Garcia (4-2, #25 offense). Then look at the bottom 5 which includes Marc Bulger, Gus Frerotte, Rex Grossman, Tavaris Jackson, and Drew Brees and look at they're teams records and offensive ratings.



And he did it behind a bad line on Sunday....Better game than McNair likely plays.

You can't say that. The simple fact that McNairs pocket awareness is lightyears above Bollers completely discredits that statement. That'd be like me saying McGahee had a bad game but he does more then what Tomlinson could have done behind our line this past sunday. You can't just make assumptions and then expect people to take you seriously.



Tons of talent is right....But that doesn't take away from the fact that they were awful the other day. Anyone denying that has no idea what they are talking ..

As I've said, the were bad. I haven't denied that so I don't know why you, and others feel it necessary to point that out 10,000 times.



Actually, that rush was from the right side i think, so it was Yanda....And the DLineman was pushed into Boller as he was throwing....Not Boller's fault at all.Most QBs probably get picked off there..

Your right, I was thinking of the play where he fumbled. He panicked and rolled out to the right and instead of throwing the ball out of bounds he chose risk the fumble. Thats the play where if he steps up he avoids the turnover. My bad. And no, most QBs don't get picked off there, most great or even good QBs in that situation understand they have a lead and are in the redzone and the smart thing is to either throw the ball away or take the sack and take the FG. Not to force a pass while getting hit. Once again, Pocket awarness, Boller has none and that is the main reason for his turnover problems.



LOL..This is hilarious...Do you think that the Rams played 8 in the box just because of Boller? You don't think they would have said, make McNair beat us? You are fooling yourself if you believe that. Probably because Boller has started 2 games and one of them was McGahee's worse game of the year. he ran well against the Jets when Boller started. Just you hating on Boller and trying to find an excuse..


Except for when I said I honestly don't think there is a direct correlation between it. But you chose to ignore that huh ? But since your dying for me to prove you wrong here you go...

McGahees stats with McNair at QB:
68 Carries for 358 Yards for a 5.2 YPC average.
McGahees stats with Boller at QB:
59 carries for 167 Yards for a 2.8 YPC average.



Did you see McNair throw a pick earlier this year when he locked on Heap the whole time?.

Yes I saw it, and I believe I said it was a horrible throw and play by McNair. He looked like a rookie QB on that play. However he was way behind cleveland at that point and I think he was pressing and trying to force everything instead of just taking what the defense gave him. Doesn't make up for his mistake at all. However, do you want me to bring up the dozens of times Boller has done the same ?


Where was your rant about that when McNair did that? How about all the fumbles against Cincy??.

#1, trust me, I was ranting plenty the night of the Cincy game. Just not on a message board. #2 I haven't even ranted at all about Boller in this thread. I said he had an average showing, not bad, not great, average. The fumble he had and the interception he threw could both have been avoided had he been smarter with the ball. However that was McNairs first VERY bad game in a Ravens jersey after he led the team to they're best record in team history. I think he deserves a pass for one bad game. And before you start, Boller has had more then one bad game so don't even try going there.


My guess is if Boller does those things, you and the peanut gallery are crying about it...McNair does it and it is no big deal.

Look at my statement above, he had one very bad game, he also played very well in the games before that one very bad game. If Boller does it, then its just Boller doing what Bollers done his whole career.


Biggs, that offensive line was horrible on Sunday, period. Boller got absolutely killed, the worst beating he's ever taken as a professional (according to.... Kyle Boller). Watch the game again. They may be talented, but inexperience will get you pancaked against Leonard Little. Ask Marshal Yanda. When you're chipping BOTH defensive ends on every play, it limits your passing options.


The O-line was bad, yes. But not the worst in the league. Did you watch the Redskins game ? At one point they were almost forced to put a DT in as an emergency RT. Which situation would you rather be in ?

[Sports Guy]

You can't say that. The simple fact that McNairs pocket awareness is lightyears above Bollers completely discredits that statement. That'd be like me saying McGahee had a bad game but he does more then what Tomlinson could have done behind our line this past sunday. You can't just make assumptions and then expect people to take you seriously.

McNair couldn't have gotten away from the rush...Even the BMore Sun writers, who aren't Boller fans, have acknowledged this.



Your right, I was thinking of the play where he fumbled. He panicked and rolled out to the right and instead of throwing the ball out of bounds he chose risk the fumble. Thats the play where if he steps up he avoids the turnover. My bad. And no, most QBs don't get picked off there, most great or even good QBs in that situation understand they have a lead and are in the redzone and the smart thing is to either throw the ball away or take the sack and take the FG. Not to force a pass while getting hit. Once again, Pocket awarness, Boller has none and that is the main reason for his turnover problems.
Boller didn't force anything....He threw the ball and as he was throwing, he got hit on his blindside.




Except for when I said I honestly don't think there is a direct correlation between it. But you chose to ignore that huh ? But since your dying for me to prove you wrong here you go...

McGahees stats with McNair at QB:
68 Carries for 358 Yards for a 5.2 YPC average.
McGahees stats with Boller at QB:
59 carries for 167 Yards for a 2.8 YPC average.Meaningless.




Yes I saw it, and I believe I said it was a horrible throw and play by McNair. He looked like a rookie QB on that play. However he was way behind cleveland at that point and I think he was pressing and trying to force everything instead of just taking what the defense gave him. Doesn't make up for his mistake at all. However, do you want me to bring up the dozens of times Boller has done the same ?You and others do...That's my point...All the Boller bashers lack consistency in what they see and what they want.

[Old#5fan]

Now who's making excuses? :rolleyes:


Well to clue you in as to who is always going to be considered the better QB between the two (McNair versus Boller) let us compare

McNair- named to a couple pro bowls, co-MVP of the League,
career 83.1 rating

Boller, once named player of the week in AFC, demoted to backup, career 71.4 rating


Note: League average QB rating is 75.

Now, tell me who is the better of the two? Also McNair has gone 13-5 as a starter since joining the Ravens and Boller is 20-16 (I believe) as a starter.
Again, tell me when you have any even slight argument that Boller is a better choice starting than McNair when McNair is physically okay?

[Mark Carver]

Well to clue you in as to who is always going to be considered the better QB between the two (McNair versus Boller) let us compare

McNair- named to a couple pro bowls, co-MVP of the League,
career 83.1 rating

Boller, once named player of the week in AFC, demoted to backup, career 71.4 rating


Note: League average QB rating is 75.

Now, tell me who is the better of the two? Also McNair has gone 13-5 as a starter since joining the Ravens and Boller is 20-16 (I believe) as a starter.
Again, tell me when you have any even slight argument that Boller is a better choice starting than McNair when McNair is physically okay?

McNair WAS named to couple of pro bowls. McNair WAS a co-MVP of the League. McNair HAD a career 83.1 QB rating. All in the past... to expect that from a 34 year old QB is another story. The same 34 year old that injured his back sleeping... I dare say that McNair's better days are in the past.

From The Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.mcnair13oct13,0,3700141.story) -


Then, he woke up Thursday with a stiff back, which could be related to his previous injury. Because he couldn't step into his throws with an injured groin, he might have hurt his back as a result.

"It just tightened up," Billick said. "I'm not sure the groin didn't lead to some tightness in the back and the things he's having to do. It's just part of working through the week."

[NewMarketSean]

Well to clue you in as to who is always going to be considered the better QB between the two (McNair versus Boller) let us compare

McNair- named to a couple pro bowls, co-MVP of the League,
career 83.1 rating

Boller, once named player of the week in AFC, demoted to backup, career 71.4 rating


Note: League average QB rating is 75.

Now, tell me who is the better of the two? Also McNair has gone 13-5 as a starter since joining the Ravens and Boller is 20-16 (I believe) as a starter.
Again, tell me when you have any even slight argument that Boller is a better choice starting than McNair when McNair is physically okay?

If they ever invent a time machine that can only travel back in time, you should volunteer to be the first person to use it.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I find it amusing as hell that someone who claims to have watched football for forty years has no concept of age or time.

Anyone else feel the same way?

[Old#5fan]

McNair WAS named to couple of pro bowls. McNair WAS a co-MVP of the League. McNair HAD a career 83.1 QB rating. All in the past... to expect that from a 34 year old QB is another story. The same 34 year old that injured his back sleeping... I dare say that McNair's better days are in the past.

From The Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.mcnair13oct13,0,3700141.story) -

Well there is as much a possibility that you could be right as you could also be wrong on McNair. Testaverde is still heaving long TD passes at age 43, which makes him a senior citizen compared to McNair. McNair's better days may well be in the past, or maybe not. One thing for sure is that Boller's days in the past and the present are never going to be considered good or even average for a starting NFL QB. He lacks the poise, pocket presense and flat out accuracy to do the job. McNair has never had any of those issues, so to compare the two is down right ludicrous. There is no comparison.

For those of you who have no idea of the skills required of an NFL QB let me assure you that pocket presense/poise under pressure and accuracy are not things that can be taught or improve much over time. A QB either has those vital qualities or he doesn't. Boller has never had them and never will. Derek Anderson showed far more of those qualities in his first pre-season game than Boller has his entire career, as he instinctively knew how to stand tall and with poise step up and fire the ball while under pressure in the pocket. Boller to this day is very poor at doing that which is why he always gets criticised for throwing off his back foot and underthrowing receivers. He just can't cut it in the NFL other than in a very limited backup role.

[Sports Guy]

I find it funny how Oldfan has yet to acknowledge Peter King's quote, the stats i put up about the Buffalo D or the article posted that was written by Hemsley.

[Hank Scorpio]

Well there is as much a possibility that you could be right as you could also be wrong on McNair. Testaverde is still heaving long TD passes at age 43, which makes him a senior citizen compared to McNair. McNair's better days may well be in the past, or maybe not. One thing for sure is that Boller's days in the past and the present are never going to be considered good or even average for a starting NFL QB. He lacks the poise, pocket presense and flat out accuracy to do the job. McNair has never had any of those issues, so to compare the two is down right ludicrous. There is no comparison.

For those of you who have no idea of the skills required of an NFL QB let me assure you that pocket presense/poise under pressure and accuracy are not things that can be taught or improve much over time. A QB either has those vital qualities or he doesn't. Boller has never had them and never will. Derek Anderson showed far more of those qualities in his first pre-season game than Boller has his entire career, as he instinctively knew how to stand tall and with poise step up and fire the ball while under pressure in the pocket. Boller to this day is very poor at doing that which is why he always gets criticised for throwing off his back foot and underthrowing receivers. He just can't cut it in the NFL other than in a very limited backup role.

Thank you, Joe Theismann. :rolleyes:

[biggsy]

McNair couldn't have gotten away from the rush...Even the BMore Sun writers, who aren't Boller fans, have acknowledged this.

Cause you, like the media has that magic crystal ball where you can see exactly how the game woulda went had McNair been behind center. Pointing out that the media agrees with you is a form of desperation. Seriously, so A-Rod isn't one of, if not the best players in baseball right now because right now the media is saying so ?

It's not about getting away from the rush, its about moving in the pocket to buy yourself the most time. McNair has an amazing sense for where he has to go and when he has to get rid of the ball. Last year's O-line gave up only like 15 sacks or something like that, do you really think they were that good ?



Boller didn't force anything....He threw the ball and as he was throwing, he got hit on his blindside..

So wait a second, in your first post addressing mine, you say it was Yanda that got beat. Now the pressure came from his Blindside ? I hope you don't have a career in politics cause you suck at spinning things your way. And even if he didn't get hit the LB was sitting in the same zone he was trying to throw into. That pass is still getting knocked down if he makes it with his legs under him. It was a horrible throw and a horrible decision in the redzone. Why can't you just admit that ? Thats the difference between me and you. When McNair plays bad or makes a bad throw I have no problem saying so, you on the other hand, among others just can't come to say Kyle Boller Christ just made a mistake can you ? And when you do admit it you feel compelled to make 100000000 excuses on why it happened. It's sad.



Meaningless.

Hey, whatever, you go with your media sources that appearently are never wrong to prove points and back yourself, I'll stick with stats and facts. We'll see who is proven right more often.



You and others do...That's my point...All the Boller bashers lack consistency in what they see and what they want.


I don't understand what your saying here. I just said he played average. He didn't play bad, he didn't play good. He made two very bad mistakes and made a few bad passes, other then that he looked good. What more do you want ? I'm not going to lie to myself like you and ignore solid stats and try and push it on other people that Kyle Boller is anything better then he was.

[Sports Guy]

Cause you, like the media has that magic crystal ball where you can see exactly how the game woulda went had McNair been behind center. Pointing out that the media agrees with you is a form of desperation. Seriously, so A-Rod isn't one of, if not the best players in baseball right now because right now the media is saying so ?Yea, you are right...Should just ignore what everyone else thinks and go with what you said. :rolleyes:



o wait a second, in your first post addressing mine, you say it was Yanda that got beat. Now the pressure came from his Blindside ? Didn't he get hit from the back, ie behind him?
hope you don't have a career in politics cause you suck at spinning things your wayI hope you aren't going to try a career in football analysis because you suck at that.
It was a horrible throw and a horrible decision in the redzone. Why can't you just admit that ? Because i don't think any QB could have seen or felt that guy coming. Its not like he sat back there for 10 seconds...It was a short route, he was in his throwing motion and the lineman got pushed into him.
Thats the difference between me and you. When McNair plays bad or makes a bad throw I have no problem saying so, you on the other hand, among others just can't come to say Kyle Boller Christ just made a mistake can you ? I have pointed out plenty of issues from Boller over the years on this board...Hell, the other day i talked about how he needs to step into his long throws better and not get under them so much.


Hey, whatever, you go with your media sources that appearently are never wrong to prove points and back yourself, I'll stick with stats and facts. We'll see who is proven right more often.
Your stats are talking about 50 carries or so...If you want to hang your hat on sample size that small, be my guest...But if you do, especially when about half of those were behind a line that played awful and was very young, be prepared to be called a fool.

BTW, those stats you speak of...I have showed some that show that Boller and McNair are much closer than you and other Boller bashers want to admit.


I don't understand what your saying here. I just said he played average. He didn't play bad, he didn't play good. He made two very bad mistakes and made a few bad passes, other then that he looked good. What more do you want ? I'm not going to lie to myself like you and ignore solid stats and try and push it on other people that Kyle Boller is anything better then he was
My point was that Boller bashers find the littlest things to complain about while they don't even point them out about McNair.

[Old#5fan]

Yea, you are right...Should just ignore what everyone else thinks and go with what you said. :rolleyes:

Didn't he get hit from the back, ie behind him?I hope you aren't going to try a career in football analysis because you suck at that.Because i don't think any QB could have seen or felt that guy coming. Its not like he sat back there for 10 seconds...It was a short route, he was in his throwing motion and the lineman got pushed into him. I have pointed out plenty of issues from Boller over the years on this board...Hell, the other day i talked about how he needs to step into his long throws better and not get under them so much.


Your stats are talking about 50 carries or so...If you want to hang your hat on sample size that small, be my guest...But if you do, especially when about half of those were behind a line that played awful and was very young, be prepared to be called a fool.



My point was that Boller bashers find the littlest things to complain about while they don't even point them out about McNair.

You must live in Superman's Bizarro world because just the opposite is true. I also find that those who constantly make lame excuses for Boller are usually fans who know little about the game because they rip McNair who has demonstrated beyond any doubt that he is a better QB to pieces for the least little mistake or when he muffs up due to being hurt. Biggsy knows what he is talking about and you certainly don't. Why you continue to debate is just a waste of your time. You should just quit while you are behind!:p

[Sports Guy]

You must live in Superman's Bizarro world because just the opposite is true. I also find that those who constantly make lame excuses for Boller are usually fans who know little about the game because they rip McNair who has demonstrated beyond any doubt that he is a better QB to pieces for the least little mistake or when he muffs up due to being hurt. Biggsy knows what he is talking about and you certainly don't. Why you continue to debate is just a waste of your time. You should just quit while you are behind!:p

The fact that you believe this makes me believe that i am more knowledgable than i thought i was...Thank you.

[BaltimoreTerp]

The fact that you believe this makes me believe that i am more knowledgable than i thought i was...Thank you.

Dude, don't talk directly to him. Just ignore what he is saying, since it isn't worth paying attention to.

[Hank Scorpio]

Cause you, like the media has that magic crystal ball where you can see exactly how the game woulda went had McNair been behind center. Pointing out that the media agrees with you is a form of desperation. Seriously, so A-Rod isn't one of, if not the best players in baseball right now because right now the media is saying so ?

It's not about getting away from the rush, its about moving in the pocket to buy yourself the most time. McNair has an amazing sense for where he has to go and when he has to get rid of the ball. Last year's O-line gave up only like 15 sacks or something like that, do you really think they were that good ?.

My man, there WAS no pocket on Sunday. I don't care if you're in the media, the stands, or locked in the trunk of a Lincoln Towncar bound and gagged... it was blatantly obvious why McNair was on the bench - because they knew whoever was the QB was going to take a beating.

If McNair would have played on Sunday he would have taken about 9 sacks.



So wait a second, in your first post addressing mine, you say it was Yanda that got beat. Now the pressure came from his Blindside ? I hope you don't have a career in politics cause you suck at spinning things your way. And even if he didn't get hit the LB was sitting in the same zone he was trying to throw into. That pass is still getting knocked down if he makes it with his legs under him. It was a horrible throw and a horrible decision in the redzone. Why can't you just admit that?

I don't know where to begin here...

First of all, let's not single Yanda out. Gaither and Grubbs were also consistently manhandled by that defensive line. Boller got hit from the backside, the frontside, the left side and the right side. THE FLASH couldn't have avoided that rush, so let's not pretend that a hobbled McNair could have, because that's just a false premise.

Secondly, on the pick... he was throwing the ball to his checkdown, McGahee, who was standing 3 yards in front of him. He got smacked halfway through his motion and the ball slipped out. I will never fault ANY quarterback for making a "bad throw" when he's got a helmet buried in his ribs, and this situation is no different. That was the CORRECT DECISION, he just got crunched in the middle of his motion. You know what? That's football. If you wanna say he should have just taken the sack, fine - but don't say it was a horrible decision, because it wasn't.

[Elbren]

Jesus. I forgot I even made this thread and it's already at 8 pages. :p

My main point of this thread wasn't that Boller shouldn't be playing. Obviously he should, considering from what I've read and heard on the radio, McNair still has some issues walking no less actual football activities. My point is that several people here have hinted at or flat out said that "Boller should be the starter", "McNair is washed up" and/or "at this point, a healthy Boller is better than a healthy McNair".

I don't see how anyone could make these statements considering McNair has been healthy for all of 3 downs this season. Yet somehow few (if any) of the Boller supporters will even admit that McNair's poor play is because of his injury(ies?). Boller gets the excuse of having a young, inexperienced line, yet McNair doesn't get that same acknowledgment. What kills me the most is that overall, McNair's and Boller's stats look pretty similar ... think about that. McNair has a groin injury yet has still put up similar numbers to Boller even though he can't move around in the pocket or step into his throws. Yet somehow there are people who think a healthy Boller is better than a healthy McNair. In fact, I don't think anyone here has even acknowledged the fact that even with all of the sacks and turnovers, Frerotte put up more yards than Boller even though Boller was facing one of the worst defenses in all of football. Even worse is that if McMichaels holds onto that ball in the endzone or Hagans ever learns how to catch a football, Frerottes numbers would have blown Boller out of the water.

I just don't understand what people think has changed between 2005 and now. What, because Boller held a clip board behind McNair for 15 - 20 games, he's somehow a better QB? And he supposedly received all of this new knowledge by watching a QB who many here think is old, washed up and ineffective??

To me, the issue isn't, "Should Boller be playing over an injured McNair", it's, "Should Boller be playing over a healthy McNair" and to me, the answer is a very emphatic NO. IMO, Mike Preston sums it up best with this quote:


He had a couple of good moments and a couple of bad ones -- pretty much what you expect from a good backup.

[Mark Carver]

Jesus. I forgot I even made this thread and it's already at 8 pages. :p

My main point of this thread wasn't that Boller shouldn't be playing. Obviously he should, considering from what I've read and heard on the radio, McNair still has some issues walking no less actual football activities. My point is that several people here have hinted at or flat out said that "Boller should be the starter", "McNair is washed up" and/or "at this point, a healthy Boller is better than a healthy McNair".

I don't see how anyone could make these statements considering McNair has been healthy for all of 3 downs this season. Yet somehow few (if any) of the Boller supporters will even admit that McNair's poor play is because of his injury(ies?). Boller gets the excuse of having a young, inexperienced line, yet McNair doesn't get that same acknowledgment. What kills me the most is that overall, McNair's and Boller's stats look pretty similar ... think about that. McNair has a groin injury yet has still put up similar numbers to Boller even though he can't move around in the pocket or step into his throws. Yet somehow there are people who think a healthy Boller is better than a healthy McNair. In fact, I don't think anyone here has even acknowledged the fact that even with all of the sacks and turnovers, Frerotte put up more yards than Boller even though Boller was facing one of the worst defenses in all of football. Even worse is that if McMichaels holds onto that ball in the endzone or Hagans ever learns how to catch a football, Frerottes numbers would have blown Boller out of the water.

I just don't understand what people think has changed between 2005 and now. What, because Boller held a clip board behind McNair for 15 - 20 games, he's somehow a better QB? And he supposedly received all of this new knowledge by watching a QB who many here think is old, washed up and ineffective??

To me, the issue isn't, "Should Boller be playing over an injured McNair", it's, "Should Boller be playing over a healthy McNair" and to me, the answer is a very emphatic NO. IMO, Mike Preston sums it up best with this quote:

Boller = 6.1 yards per pass
Frerotte = 5.8 yards per pass

If you go by the QB rating as someone seems to think is the be all to end all. Frerotte had a QB rating of 30.6.

[66-70-83-??]

Jesus. I forgot I even made this thread and it's already at 8 pages. :p

My main point of this thread wasn't that Boller shouldn't be playing. Obviously he should, considering from what I've read and heard on the radio, McNair still has some issues walking no less actual football activities. My point is that several people here have hinted at or flat out said that "Boller should be the starter", "McNair is washed up" and/or "at this point, a healthy Boller is better than a healthy McNair".

I don't see how anyone could make these statements considering McNair has been healthy for all of 3 downs this season. Yet somehow few (if any) of the Boller supporters will even admit that McNair's poor play is because of his injury(ies?). Boller gets the excuse of having a young, inexperienced line, yet McNair doesn't get that same acknowledgment. What kills me the most is that overall, McNair's and Boller's stats look pretty similar ... think about that. McNair has a groin injury yet has still put up similar numbers to Boller even though he can't move around in the pocket or step into his throws. Yet somehow there are people who think a healthy Boller is better than a healthy McNair. In fact, I don't think anyone here has even acknowledged the fact that even with all of the sacks and turnovers, Frerotte put up more yards than Boller even though Boller was facing one of the worst defenses in all of football. Even worse is that if McMichaels holds onto that ball in the endzone or Hagans ever learns how to catch a football, Frerottes numbers would have blown Boller out of the water.

I just don't understand what people think has changed between 2005 and now. What, because Boller held a clip board behind McNair for 15 - 20 games, he's somehow a better QB? And he supposedly received all of this new knowledge by watching a QB who many here think is old, washed up and ineffective??

To me, the issue isn't, "Should Boller be playing over an injured McNair", it's, "Should Boller be playing over a healthy McNair" and to me, the answer is a very emphatic NO. IMO, Mike Preston sums it up best with this quote:

C'mon now... McNair didn't have a groin pull in Cincy, but he did have a healthy 1st string offense.

If McNair is 100%- he is most likely the better choice, but the gap has narrowed considerably between the two. Due to McNair aging and Boller improving- Kyle very well could be a better QB in the not too distant future

One of the problems I have with the Boller Bashers is they refuse to even consider that is even remotely possible that Boller has (or even is capable of) improved since he was a rookie thrown into the starting role.

[Mackus]

Can we start Luis Hernandez at QB against Buffalo?

[DuffMan]

Can we start Luis Hernandez at QB against Buffalo?


You're way off!!! If we had just kept Vinny Testaverde for all these years we wouldn't even be having this debate!!:D

[Mackus]

You're way off!!! If we had just kept Vinny Testaverde for all these years we wouldn't even be having this debate!!:DBut Vinny's defense at SS is unacceptable.

[Old#5fan]

Jesus. I forgot I even made this thread and it's already at 8 pages. :p

My main point of this thread wasn't that Boller shouldn't be playing. Obviously he should, considering from what I've read and heard on the radio, McNair still has some issues walking no less actual football activities. My point is that several people here have hinted at or flat out said that "Boller should be the starter", "McNair is washed up" and/or "at this point, a healthy Boller is better than a healthy McNair".

I don't see how anyone could make these statements considering McNair has been healthy for all of 3 downs this season. Yet somehow few (if any) of the Boller supporters will even admit that McNair's poor play is because of his injury(ies?). Boller gets the excuse of having a young, inexperienced line, yet McNair doesn't get that same acknowledgment. What kills me the most is that overall, McNair's and Boller's stats look pretty similar ... think about that. McNair has a groin injury yet has still put up similar numbers to Boller even though he can't move around in the pocket or step into his throws. Yet somehow there are people who think a healthy Boller is better than a healthy McNair. In fact, I don't think anyone here has even acknowledged the fact that even with all of the sacks and turnovers, Frerotte put up more yards than Boller even though Boller was facing one of the worst defenses in all of football. Even worse is that if McMichaels holds onto that ball in the endzone or Hagans ever learns how to catch a football, Frerottes numbers would have blown Boller out of the water.

I just don't understand what people think has changed between 2005 and now. What, because Boller held a clip board behind McNair for 15 - 20 games, he's somehow a better QB? And he supposedly received all of this new knowledge by watching a QB who many here think is old, washed up and ineffective??

To me, the issue isn't, "Should Boller be playing over an injured McNair", it's, "Should Boller be playing over a healthy McNair" and to me, the answer is a very emphatic NO. IMO, Mike Preston sums it up best with this quote:

I couldn't have put it any better myself, yet why do I know beyond any shadow of a doubt this perfectly logical, sound, and correct summation will be quickly discounted like the proverbial fart in a windstorm?:rolleyes: :eek: :(

[Old#5fan]

C'mon now... McNair didn't have a groin pull in Cincy, but he did have a healthy 1st string offense.

If McNair is 100%- he is most likely the better choice, but the gap has narrowed considerably between the two. Due to McNair aging and Boller improving- Kyle very well could be a better QB in the not too distant future

One of the problems I have with the Boller Bashers is they refuse to even consider that is even remotely possible that Boller has (or even is capable of) improved since he was a rookie thrown into the starting role.

Yeah, Boller may have improved by a miniscule margin but still not nearly enough to ever warrant regaining his starting job and I am quite indeed certain some of you who think I am wrong will be shown the error in your thinking once he plays on the road again. Of course, I am also quite certain that some of you already have prepared excuses for Blunderboy in advance.:eek:

[Sports Guy]

C'mon now... McNair didn't have a groin pull in Cincy, but he did have a healthy 1st string offense.

If McNair is 100%- he is most likely the better choice, but the gap has narrowed considerably between the two. Due to McNair aging and Boller improving- Kyle very well could be a better QB in the not too distant future

One of the problems I have with the Boller Bashers is they refuse to even consider that is even remotely possible that Boller has (or even is capable of) improved since he was a rookie thrown into the starting role.
Well said.

BTW, McNair hurt his groin in Cinci.

[Hank Scorpio]

Well said.

BTW, McNair hurt his groin in Cinci.

He was hurt before then. He wasn't right from the get go.

[The Wedge]

If McNair would have played on Sunday he would have taken about 9 sacks.



No way, simply because he'd have come out after breaking his hip after the 3rd or 4th one. ;)

[Old#5fan]

No way, simply because he'd have come out after breaking his hip after the 3rd or 4th one. ;)

You may have a point as nobody cares if they break Boller in half and he's out the rest of the season as he is essentially worthless to begin with. I doagree with the premise of protecting McNair at all cost.

[Old#5fan]

He was hurt before then. He wasn't right from the get go.

Yet McNair bashers either discount it or act like they didn't know he was frigging hurt right away in that game. The hypocracy is unbelieveable in that regard!

[Bosibus]

You may have a point as nobody cares if they break Boller in half and he's out the rest of the season as he is essentially worthless to begin with. I doagree with the premise of protecting McNair at all cost.

So he can throw a pick on the 1 yard line and send us home to watch the Super Bowl on TV, sounds great!

[Sports Guy]

Yet McNair bashers either discount it or act like they didn't know he was frigging hurt right away in that game. The hypocracy is unbelieveable in that regard!

Was McNair hurt against Indy last year in the playoffs?

[Old#5fan]

So he can throw a pick on the 1 yard line and send us home to watch the Super Bowl on TV, sounds great!

Boller is far more apt to throw goaline picks than McNair if you have followed his career. He has already done it this season in limited action. That Indy Colts defense has made a lot of good QB's look bad including Drew Brees who was picked off a number of times. Sometimes you just have to give some credit to being outplayed by a better team.

[Old#5fan]

Was McNair hurt against Indy last year in the playoffs?

See my response to Bosibus which also answers this silly question which you know the answer already.:rolleyes:

[NewMarketSean]

Boller is far more apt to throw goaline picks than McNair if you have followed his career. He has already done it this season in limited action. That Indy Colts defense has made a lot of good QB's look bad including Drew Brees who was picked off a number of times. Sometimes you just have to give some credit to being outplayed by a better team.

Both of Boller's picks so far this year were not his fault.

And why can a good defense make certain QB's look bad, but not Boller?

[Sports Guy]

See my response to Bosibus which also answers this silly question which you know the answer already.:rolleyes:

So your defense to McNair was that the Colts defense makes Qbs look bad?

LOL...What a horrendous reponse.

So, if Boller played the exact same way in that game and we lost by the same score and he threw an end zone pick, you would brush it off as the Colts D just making QBs look bad?

And you say the Boller backers make up excuses? LOl...Pathetic.

[TGO]

This thread is like a horrific slow motion car crash.

[MikeAD]

This is something that I do not understand:
(Taken from todays USAToday):


Even if Kyle Boller plays wekk Sunday at Buffalo, coach Brian Billick said there will be no quarterback contreversy. Steve McNair will return as the starter after the bye week if he has recovered from his groin and back injuries. "We're lucky to have Kyle, but (aside from health) there is no circumstance that I can think of that would not have McNair as our starter," Billick said


Ok, so I hope that Boller goes out there on Sunday and throws for 4 or 5 TDs and plays like hell. I know that its unlikely, but I just wish it would.

What I don't get is why we had to "suffer" through Boller being thrown into the fire as soon as he was drafted and it seemed like he was "Billick's Guy" then and nothign could stand in the way of him starting.

Now it seems to be the opposite. For once I would like to see Baltimore be the place where we let a good veteran play out his contract as an advising backup, instead of pushing away a younger talent because we have the veteran on staff.

Honestly, if Boller goes out there and does great, isn't it better for the team (since he will be our QB next year) to just leave him as the starter?

[The Wedge]

This thread is like a horrific slow motion car crash.

It needs a mercy killing, unfortunately.

[biggsy]

Yea, you are right...Should just ignore what everyone else thinks and go with what you said. :rolleyes:.

Did I say that ? I was trying to be nice and say don't make an ass out of yourself by assuming things you can't prove. No one, and I mean NO ONE can look at the game and accurately state what McNair would have or would not have done. It's not possible, as much as you want it to be.



Didn't he get hit from the back, ie behind him?.

Now this is funny...first you bash me for not knowing it was Yanda that got beat on that play, ie the right tackle, ie not his blindside. And now you wanna change it and say that it came from behind. Then you make sure you mention that it was a very quick play which means the DE had no chance to go ALL THE WAY AROUND Boller and hit him from his blindside...so which way you going with this spinny ? Was it Gaither that got beat on the blindside or was it Yanda who got beat where Boller easily should have seen his RT got beat ? Or was Boller doing his okey doke super fake pass where he turns his whole body like he's a left handed QB to trick the defense that much more ?



I hope you aren't going to try a career in football analysis because you suck at that..

Ha thats funny. I bring stats and true facts to the table, you bring "the media says this" and "I assume that" to the table and try and make it out that I'm the dummy here. Here let me try your strategy, I assume I'd make a better QB then Kyle Boller. See how dumb it looks when you use assumptions as a basis for an argument ?



Because i don't think any QB could have seen or felt that guy coming. Its not like he sat back there for 10 seconds...It was a short route, he was in his throwing motion and the lineman got pushed into him. .

Are you kidding me, did you watch McNair at all last year ? He had a 6th sense for knowing where the pressure was and getting rid of the ball, even when the pressure got right in. Watch Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and tell me no QB could have seen or felt that guy coming. But here we go, lets just assume things to base my opinions on.



I have pointed out plenty of issues from Boller over the years on this board...Hell, the other day i talked about how he needs to step into his long throws better and not get under them so much...

Wow, you've pointed out one thing under the millions of things you try and push on everyone that makes him so great. If the world listened to you Kyle Boller would be a surefire hall of famer and the next great QB to erase the record books.




Your stats are talking about 50 carries or so...If you want to hang your hat on sample size that small, be my guest...But if you do, especially when about half of those were behind a line that played awful and was very young, be prepared to be called a fool..

It is a small sample size, yeah. Hence why I said I honstly felt there was no direct correlation at first. But they are stats. They can't lie. They show a huge difference between the numbers when McNair is in and when Boller is in. I even said it seemed weird because Boller has thrown downfield a whole hell of a lot more then McNair has this year so it didn't make alot of sense. But those are the numbers. However, that does include that awesome game he appearently had against the Jets you were so happy and quick to mention.




BTW, those stats you speak of...I have showed some that show that Boller and McNair are much closer than you and other Boller bashers want to admit..


Why do I get lumped in with "Boller bashers" ? I don't bash him, I even said he played very well above average against the Jets and had an average showing against the Rams. I say what every scout has ever said about the man. He's erratic and makes very bad decisions when pressure comes and has a bad case of fumblitis along with a very poor pocket prescence. Thats not bashing someone, thats simply stating the problems the player has. Bashing would be saying, "I hate him so much I hope Tara gave him guanacyphilitis along with some herpes because he throws INT's every 5 seconds and is the reason the Ravens suck." You will never hear me say anything of that sort. Hell I've even said I like the man, he's a great person. Extremely friendly and charitable.



My point was that Boller bashers find the littlest things to complain about while they don't even point them out about McNair.

What do you want ? McNair hasn't played very good at all with the exception of the ARZ game this year. He's had passes sail on him and his accuracy on long and intermediate throws has been pretty bad. But watching him play this year makes it obvious the injury is the main reason. His footwork is way off, and he hasn't been getting his feet underneath him on his throws. Hell I haven't even said Boller isn't the better option right now considering McNair is hurt. I'm actually happy about him starting against the Bills this week. McNair needs the break to get back to 100% where he'll be most effective. All I have said the whole thread is that Boller was average this past sunday. Both the Fumble and INT could have been avoided had he been smarter with the ball. If you don't think thats the correct anaylsis I don't know what to tell you.

[Old#5fan]

Both of Boller's picks so far this year were not his fault.

And why can a good defense make certain QB's look bad, but not Boller?

When are any of Boller's picks ever his fault? There are as many excuses floating around for Boller as there are grains of sand in an hourglass. He even got lauded for tipped TD passes last season as if they were great pass plays! Yet every single mistake McNair makes is always on McNair. Where is the logic in that? FYI, it doesn't take a good defense to make Boller look bad. The lowly Rams even qualify.

[Old#5fan]

So your defense to McNair was that the Colts defense makes Qbs look bad?

LOL...What a horrendous reponse.

So, if Boller played the exact same way in that game and we lost by the same score and he threw an end zone pick, you would brush it off as the Colts D just making QBs look bad?

And you say the Boller backers make up excuses? LOl...Pathetic.

In my view (and it doesn't take a genius to figure it out) there is a huge difference between making a bad play against the eventual Superbowl winning team than say, against a winless team like the Rams. Boller even looks bad against terrible teams much less good teams. He would have had zero chance against the Colts that day.

[tywright]

I'm not a Boller Backer, but would the Ravens had won against Indy if Boller started over McNair??

[tywright]

In my view (and it doesn't take a genius to figure it out) there is a huge difference between making a bad play against the eventual Superbowl winning team than say, against a winless team like the Rams. Boller even looks bad against terrible teams much less good teams. He would have had zero chance against the Colts that day.

How can you say that? Indy wouldn't have loaded the box and Sanders would have had to play more pass coverage. McNair had nothing that day

[NewMarketSean]

I'm not a Boller Backer, but would the Ravens had won against Indy if Boller started over McNair??

No one can answer that question with a definite answer. Probably not but he couldn't have done any worse than McNair.

[Old#5fan]

This is something that I do not understand:
(Taken from todays USAToday):




Ok, so I hope that Boller goes out there on Sunday and throws for 4 or 5 TDs and plays like hell. I know that its unlikely, but I just wish it would.

What I don't get is why we had to "suffer" through Boller being thrown into the fire as soon as he was drafted and it seemed like he was "Billick's Guy" then and nothign could stand in the way of him starting.

Now it seems to be the opposite. For once I would like to see Baltimore be the place where we let a good veteran play out his contract as an advising backup, instead of pushing away a younger talent because we have the veteran on staff.

Honestly, if Boller goes out there and does great, isn't it better for the team (since he will be our QB next year) to just leave him as the starter?

Apparently the thought never occurred to you that Billick like several of us here knows Boller is a horrendous road QB and if he plays well against Buffalo it would probably be a fluke like the lone road game win he had where he performed well against the Jets back in 2004 I believe?

[tywright]

No one can answer that question with a definite answer. Probably not but he couldn't have done any worse than McNair.

Well there you go... he couldn't have done any worse. IMO he would have forced Indy to play differently on D allowing for the run game to open up. McNair's lack of an arm game brought Sanders into the box more.

Also has McNair looked any better since the Indy game?

[Sports Guy]

Well there you go... he couldn't have done any worse. IMO he would have forced Indy to play differently on D allowing for the run game to open up. McNair's lack of an arm game brought Sanders into the box more.

Also has McNair looked any better since the Indy game?

Mcnair hasn't looked good since about week 14 or 15 of last season but injuries do play a huge role in that.

I do think we would have had a better chance to win with Boller because the offense does open up more with him but Billick did coach that game scared so maybe nothing changes.

[Old#5fan]

How can you say that? Indy wouldn't have loaded the box and Sanders would have had to play more pass coverage. McNair had nothing that day

Say what? Every team that has ever faced the Ravens with Boller as the QB loads the box or stacks for the run daring him to pass. This has been true Boller's entire career. The obvious reason is because Boller is terrible at throwing the deep ball with any degree of accuracy.Every team in the NFL knows this which is why it became so tough to run the ball when he's in there. At least when Mcnair is in the game they don't stack or load the box nearly as much. Actually in the Colts game they were playing Cover 2 and taking away the deep passes so that everything open was only the short stuff. The Ravens had some success running the ball but Billick abandoned it in the second half as he usually does when they fall behind.

[tywright]

Mcnair hasn't looked good since about week 14 or 15 of last season but injuries do play a huge role in that.

I do think we would have had a better chance to win with Boller because the offense does open up more with him but Billick did coach that game scared so maybe nothing changes.

That's the thing, Billick coaches way more conservatively with McNair...but he seems more comfortable in making ambitious play calls with Boller. Even if the play calls don't result in big plays, it still makes the defense honest. When have we seen big plays with McNair? That's why our offense can't dink and dunk effectively because the D is already anticipating it. They KNOW there won't be a big play call.

Basically even if Boller is making his typical mistakes, he still forces the D to play differently, which opens things up.

[MikeAD]

That's the thing, Billick coaches way more conservatively with McNair...but he seems more comfortable in making ambitious play calls with Boller. Even if the play calls don't result in big plays, it still makes the defense honest. When have we seen big plays with McNair? That's why our offense can't dink and dunk effectively because the D is already anticipating it. They KNOW there won't be a big play call.

Basically even if Boller is making his typical mistakes, he still forces the D to play differently, which opens things up.

Could that be that even Billick knows that Boller is more capable of spreading the ball around? He calls NO passes over 12 yards for McNair and 4-5 in the first half for Boller.

[Old#5fan]

"Wow, you've pointed out one thing under the millions of things you try and push on everyone that makes him so great. If the world listened to you Kyle Boller would be a surefire hall of famer and the next great QB to erase the record books."

This has to be one of the funniest (yet true) posts I have ever read on this forum. I am still laughing at it even now!:D :)

[tywright]

Say what? Every team that has ever faced the Ravens with Boller as the QB loads the box or stacks for the run daring him to pass. This has been true Boller's entire career. The obvious reason is because Boller is terrible at throwing the deep ball with any degree of accuracy.Every team in the NFL knows this which is why it became so tough to run the ball when he's in there. At least when Mcnair is in the game they don't stack or load the box nearly as much. Actually in the Colts game they were playing Cover 2 and taking away the deep passes so that everything open was only the short stuff. The Ravens had some success running the ball but Billick abandoned it in the second half as he usually does when they fall behind.

The Colts always play Cover 2 because of Dungy. Their defense was no different than any other week. And Sanders was loading the box the whole day against McNair. The reason we couldn't score was because of McNair's reluctness to attack the secondary once we got past the 40. And of course him forcing passes to Heap.

[Old#5fan]

Well there you go... he couldn't have done any worse. IMO he would have forced Indy to play differently on D allowing for the run game to open up. McNair's lack of an arm game brought Sanders into the box more.

Also has McNair looked any better since the Indy game?

Do you recall the game at the beginning of the 2005 season where Boller started against Indy? If you recall anything at all about that game you would know that Boller looked about as bewildered as an NFL QB can get that game. Odgen would take Freeney to the outside and Boller stupidly would not merely step up in the pocket but would stand back there oblivious like a sitting duck. Ill informed fans were blaming Odgen for allowing Freeney to "own" him and silly statements like that when the reality was that Boller was too oblivious to sense where the pressure would be coming from and merely step up or to the opposite side and make a play.

This precisely what you would have seen more of from Boller had he played in the playoff game instead of McNair. Boller cannot even anticipate very well an average pass rush much less one coming from the likes of Freeney and Mathis!

[MikeAD]

Do you recall the game at the beginning of the 2005 season where Boller started against Indy? If you recall anything at all about that game you would know that Boller looked about as bewildered as an NFL QB can get that game. Odgen would take Freeney to the outside and Boller stupidly would not merely step up in the pocket but would stand back there oblivious like a sitting duck. Ill informed fans were blaming Odgen for allowing Freeney to "own" him and silly statements like that when the reality was that Boller was too stupid to sense where the pressure would be coming from and merely step up or to the opposite side and make a play. This precisely what you would have seen more of from Boller had he played in the playoff game instead of McNair. Boller cannot even anticipate very well an average pass rush much less one coming from the likes of Freeney and Mathis!

The majority of Boller's mental errors came from the fact that he was thrown into the fire as a starter right away, he had no time to really sit back and wait. Now he has developed, let him play. That was over two years ago...he has changed alot.

[Tank]

"Wow, you've pointed out one thing under the millions of things you try and push on everyone that makes him so great. If the world listened to you Kyle Boller would be a surefire hall of famer and the next great QB to erase the record books."

This has to be one of the funniest (yet true) posts I have ever read on this forum. I am still laughing at it even now!:D :)

Umm, nobody is saying that Kyle Boller "is a surefire hall of famer", just that he is the better option over an injured, declining, and unproductive Steve McNair right now...

God, I need to stop reading these threads. They're makin' me mad!

[tywright]

Do you recall the game at the beginning of the 2005 season where Boller started against Indy? If you recall anything at all about that game you would know that Boller looked about as bewildered as an NFL QB can get that game. Odgen would take Freeney to the outside and Boller stupidly would not merely step up in the pocket but would stand back there oblivious like a sitting duck. Ill informed fans were blaming Odgen for allowing Freeney to "own" him and silly statements like that when the reality was that Boller was too stupid to sense where the pressure would be coming from and merely step up or to the opposite side and make a play. This precisely what you would have seen more of from Boller had he played in the playoff game instead of McNair. Boller cannot even anticipate very well an average pass rush much less one coming from the likes of Freeney and Mathis!

That was 2005...do you think Boller might have matured and improved since then? Boller also has had 2 years to learn under McNair.

Boller wasn't dropping back past his line coverage last Sunday. On a couple occasions it looked like he did, but that was due to Gaither or Yanda not getting enough push and Boller's timing was off.

[Old#5fan]

The majority of Boller's mental errors came from the fact that he was thrown into the fire as a starter right away, he had no time to really sit back and wait.


Possibly but it is also equally possible that he simply lacked the poise, accuracy and pocket presense to begin with. Ben Rothlesbergere was also thrown into the fire his first season after Maddox was injured against the Ravens yet he seemed to develop just fine.

Now he has developed, let him play. That was over two years ago...he has changed alot.


What do you base this on? He has only played not even four full games in the past two seasons and ZERO road games which has always been where he has been absolutely putrid throughout his career. Are you basing this on wishful thinking but statistically or via observation I sure don't see it.

[Old#5fan]

That was 2005...do you think Boller might have matured and improved since then? Boller also has had 2 years to learn under McNair.

Boller wasn't dropping back past his line coverage last Sunday. On a couple occasions it looked like he did, but that was due to Gaither or Yanda not getting enough push and Boller's timing was off.

I get tired of hearing all the excuses for Boller which usually consist of the OL not blocking well enough, the receivers dropping balls, or some other b.s. that is never Boller's fault in any possible way, shape, or form. Every Ravens QB has had these same excuses, not just Boller. The fact remains is Boller is simply not good enough to function well unless everything goes perfect on a play. The good QB's function and make plays when everything is far from perfect and even sometimes when a play totally breaks down. Not so with Boller.

[tywright]

What do you base this on? He has only played not even four full games in the past two seasons and ZERO road games which has always been where he has been absolutely putrid throughout his career. Are you basing this on wishful thinking but statistically or via observation I sure don't see it.

I'll say one thing, if Boller hasn't improved in the past 2 years then the Ravens wouldn't have offered a 1-year extension.

[tywright]

I get tired of hearing all the excuses for Boller which usually consist of the OL not blocking well enough, the receivers dropping balls, or some other b.s. that is never Boller's fault in any possible way, shape, or form. Every Ravens QB has had these same excuses, not just Boller. The fact remains is Boller is simply not good enough to function well unless everything goes perfect on a play. The good QB's function and make plays when everything is far from perfect and even sometimes when a play totally breaks down. Not so with Boller.

I never offered an excuse for Boller, I just said that he isn't dropping back past his line coverage like he was doing in 2005. Boller still has plenty of weaknesses he needs to improve on, so making excuses for him is not my agenda. I'm just showing you he has improved as a QB, which you seem to be blindly arguing against.

[MikeAD]

I'll say one thing, if Boller hasn't improved in the past 2 years then the Ravens wouldn't have offered a 1-year extension.

I would like to think that too, my friend, but I don't understand giving him the extension and at the same time making comments like Billick made to the media.

Maybe Billick is gone after this season.

Rob Ryan's contract is up in Oakland..make Rex Ryan HC and his twin brother Def. Coordinator :D

[tywright]

I would like to think that too, my friend, but I don't understand giving him the extension and at the same time making comments like Billick made to the media.

Maybe Billick is gone after this season.

Rob Ryan's contract is up in Oakland..make Rex Ryan HC and his twin brother Def. Coordinator :D

He's signed long term. He's only gone if they totally collapse.

Boller was signed to an extension because Troy Smith doesn't look to be a #1 and we can't draft another QB and expect him to be our #1 as early as next year.

[Sports Guy]

Do you recall the game at the beginning of the 2005 season where Boller started against Indy? If you recall anything at all about that game you would know that Boller looked about as bewildered as an NFL QB can get that game. Odgen would take Freeney to the outside and Boller stupidly would not merely step up in the pocket but would stand back there oblivious like a sitting duck. Ill informed fans were blaming Odgen for allowing Freeney to "own" him and silly statements like that when the reality was that Boller was too oblivious to sense where the pressure would be coming from and merely step up or to the opposite side and make a play.

This precisely what you would have seen more of from Boller had he played in the playoff game instead of McNair. Boller cannot even anticipate very well an average pass rush much less one coming from the likes of Freeney and Mathis!
There is your problem...Looking at Boller from 2 years ago...You are evaluating Boller now based off of his past and you are doing the same thing with McNair.

That is wrong.

Oh well, i just want Stevie Mac to get healthy and see if he can be the guy he was last year. If he struggles after a few games, i hope BB pulls him in favor of Boller.

[Sports Guy]

That's the thing, Billick coaches way more conservatively with McNair...but he seems more comfortable in making ambitious play calls with Boller. Even if the play calls don't result in big plays, it still makes the defense honest. When have we seen big plays with McNair? That's why our offense can't dink and dunk effectively because the D is already anticipating it. They KNOW there won't be a big play call.

Basically even if Boller is making his typical mistakes, he still forces the D to play differently, which opens things up.

This is kind of an argument you can use in baseball.

A SS with better range than Miggy may make more errors than Tejada but he will also get to more balls.

Same thing with Boller....He may throw more INTs but he may also make more plays, stretch the field more and get it downfield more often.(think Favre here...similar concept)

[Sports Guy]

What do you base this on? He has only played not even four full games in the past two seasons and ZERO road games which has always been where he has been absolutely putrid throughout his career. Are you basing this on wishful thinking but statistically or via observation I sure don't see it.

Old Fan is 100% right about this...Boller has to prove he can win on the road.

[Old#5fan]

I'll say one thing, if Boller hasn't improved in the past 2 years then the Ravens wouldn't have offered a 1-year extension.

I disagree. If he had improved much at all they would have offered him more than a 1 year extension at the last minute. They only did that because McNair is older and injury prone and Smith no more than a project at this point at best. They really didn't have much choice other than maybe pick up Leftwich and they didn't have the salary cap room for that, and then what would they have done with Boller/Smith?

[Sports Guy]

I disagree. If he had improved much at all they would have offered him more than a 1 year extension at the last minute. They only did that because McNair is older and injury prone and Smith no more than a project at this point at best. They really didn't have much choice other than maybe pick up Leftwich and they didn't have the salary cap room for that, and then what would they have done with Boller/Smith?

The last minute would have been after the Super Bowl.

[Hank Scorpio]

I disagree. If he had improved much at all they would have offered him more than a 1 year extension at the last minute. They only did that because McNair is older and injury prone and Smith no more than a project at this point at best. They really didn't have much choice other than maybe pick up Leftwich and they didn't have the salary cap room for that, and then what would they have done with Boller/Smith?

From what I understood, Smith was headed to the practice squad if they signed Leftwich.

[Old#5fan]

From what I understood, Smith was headed to the practice squad if they signed Leftwich.

Maybe so but then they chance losing him and also they didn't have the cap space to sign Leftwich unless they did something with Ogden.

[Old#5fan]

The last minute would have been after the Super Bowl.

You very much like to argue for the sake of arguing don't you? They scared Boller into signing the one year deal because Leftwich became available. Smart move on their part if they had no real intention of pursuing Leftwich. Had Leftwich not been cut they probably would have waited longer to sign Blunderboy, no doubt.

[Elbren]

C'mon now... McNair didn't have a groin pull in Cincy, but he did have a healthy 1st string offense.


Did you watch that game? He got hurt very early and was limping almost the entire time.


Both of Boller's picks so far this year were not his fault.

And why can a good defense make certain QB's look bad, but not Boller?

I have no problem if he gets owned by a good defense. The problem is that his two starts were against probably two of the worst defenses in the NFL. Yeah, we ended up winning those games (I would have blown up if we didn't) but there's no reason to play both of those teams and only walk away with 1 thrown TD.


The majority of Boller's mental errors came from the fact that he was thrown into the fire as a starter right away, he had no time to really sit back and wait. Now he has developed, let him play. That was over two years ago...he has changed alot.
See there's that thinking again. He developed in one season? Really? In just one year of watching McNair who basically had to learn the playbook on the fly early in the season??


Umm, nobody is saying that Kyle Boller "is a surefire hall of famer", just that he is the better option over an injured, declining, and unproductive Steve McNair right now...

God, I need to stop reading these threads. They're makin' me mad!

I don't think anyone is disputing that. My point is that once McNair returns healthy (hopefully after the bye) there should be no question that he is the starter.


That was 2005...do you think Boller might have matured and improved since then? Boller also has had 2 years to learn under McNair.
Boller wasn't dropping back past his line coverage last Sunday. On a couple occasions it looked like he did, but that was due to Gaither or Yanda not getting enough push and Boller's timing was off.

No, he hasn't. Last week was McNair's 20th game with the Ravens. He didn't start 2 games this year and he had 2 games last year where he was taken out very early due to injury (only 4 attempts each). That's 16 games; 17 if you can't the Indy playoff game; basically one year.


Maybe so but then they chance losing him and also they didn't have the cap space to sign Leftwich unless they did something with Ogden.

Personally, I think that's the only thing that kept Leftwich from being a Raven.

[Elbren]

He was hurt before then. He wasn't right from the get go.

I also find it interesting that probably the most accurate insider we have on this site makes this comment and it's pretty much ignored by anyone/everyone.

[NewMarketSean]

I have no problem if he gets owned by a good defense. The problem is that his two starts were against probably two of the worst defenses in the NFL. Yeah, we ended up winning those games (I would have blown up if we didn't) but there's no reason to play both of those teams and only walk away with 1 thrown TD.

What Ravens QB since Vinny has consistently thrown multiple TD's in games? That is just not the kind of team the Ravens are, no matter who they're playing and no matter who the QB is.


See there's that thinking again. He developed in one season? Really? In just one year of watching McNair who basically had to learn the playbook on the fly early in the season??

Yeah he had to learn the system but he's also a veteran. Boller is still a young QB and he knows this system now. To compare McNair, a 13 year vet to Boller, a QB who has started a little over 2 full seasons is apples and oranges.


I don't think anyone is disputing that. My point is that once McNair returns healthy (hopefully after the bye) there should be no question that he is the starter.

Agreed.

[AgentOrange]

I also find it interesting that probably the most accurate insider we have on this site makes this comment and it's pretty much ignored by anyone/everyone.

Yeah, I agree with you there. I don't really know what to say other than I am dissappointed in seeing that. I think we have enough depth to not putting someone out there that is hurt and we could miss them long term instead of 1 or 2 weeks out to get healthy.

[snatch311]

What Ravens QB since Vinny has consistently thrown multiple TD's in games? That is just not the kind of team the Ravens are, no matter who they're playing and no matter who the QB is.



Yeah he had to learn the system but he's also a veteran. Boller is still a young QB and he knows this system now. To compare McNair, a 13 year vet to Boller, a QB who has started a little over 2 full seasons is apples and oranges.



Agreed.

What QB since Vinny has consistently thrown multiple TDs in games?
Well, Boller has done it in 5 of his last 7 games where he threw more than 15 attempts. Then again, McNair has done it 4 times total as a Raven...

[snatch311]

McNair has been +2 or better with TDs vs. Ints in a game ONCE as a Raven. Boller's done it 4 out of his last 7 games.

[Elbren]

What Ravens QB since Vinny has consistently thrown multiple TD's in games? That is just not the kind of team the Ravens are, no matter who they're playing and no matter who the QB is.

Very true. But I'd think Dilfer would have proved that you don't need a big arm QB to win games. The bread and butter of this team is still the Defense but we no longer have that power back as the centerpiece of the offense. While I really like McGahee, for whatever reason, they don't seem to hand him the ball enough. And when they do, alot of the playcalls have him going up the middle (which I don't understand considering he averages less than 2 YD's per carry up the middle). This just means the QB is throwing more and IMO, it does matter who you're playing. If you play two of the worst defenses in the NFL and can only throw 1 TD, what hope can you have against teams like the Pats, Colts, Chargers and Steelers?

I still believe in my original prediction; especially with CMac now out. If Boller is our QB for a prolonged period of time (or if McNair comes back, but is still hurt) this team is looking at an 8-8 season.


Yeah he had to learn the system but he's also a veteran. Boller is still a young QB and he knows this system now. To compare McNair, a 13 year vet to Boller, a QB who has started a little over 2 full seasons is apples and oranges.

My point wasn't to compare the two QB's. Just that many seem to think that Boller has turned a corner and improved on past problems and I'm not quite sure how this has changed in just one year.

[Elbren]

What QB since Vinny has consistently thrown multiple TDs in games?
Well, Boller has done it in 5 of his last 7 games where he threw more than 15 attempts. Then again, McNair has done it 4 times total as a Raven...

You're kind of reaching there. That's going back to 2005 so you might as well say that he's done it 6 out of the 10 games since he did it against Cinn. that Nov. Also, if you're going to bring up 2005, yes he had 3 games of 2+ TD's, but he also had 4 games of no TD's. Two of those games being against very mediocre defenses in Cleveland and Houston.

[Hank Scorpio]

Yeah, I agree with you there. I don't really know what to say other than I am dissappointed in seeing that. I think we have enough depth to not putting someone out there that is hurt and we could miss them long term instead of 1 or 2 weeks out to get healthy.

I think it was more of a "I can go" situation, and it just didn't improve enough... so they wanted to give him 3 weeks of rest so that there's no question about him going into Pittsburgh.

I honestly don't think we've seen McNair 100% this year yet.

I also think Boller's getting a bit of a raw deal, getting tossed out there behind the most inexperienced line in the NFL. But you won't hear the kid complain.

[Tank]

I just read Sports Weekly's power rankings for the week. They have the Ravens at #8 and their blurb for us is:


Credit Kyle Boller, who might finally be ready for big chair.

Just thought I'd throw that out there...

[The Wedge]

They obviously don't watch the games. /typical response.

[Old#5fan]

Did you watch that game? He got hurt very early and was limping almost the entire time.



I have no problem if he gets owned by a good defense. The problem is that his two starts were against probably two of the worst defenses in the NFL. Yeah, we ended up winning those games (I would have blown up if we didn't) but there's no reason to play both of those teams and only walk away with 1 thrown TD.


See there's that thinking again. He developed in one season? Really? In just one year of watching McNair who basically had to learn the playbook on the fly early in the season??



I don't think anyone is disputing that. My point is that once McNair returns healthy (hopefully after the bye) there should be no question that he is the starter.



No, he hasn't. Last week was McNair's 20th game with the Ravens. He didn't start 2 games this year and he had 2 games last year where he was taken out very early due to injury (only 4 attempts each). That's 16 games; 17 if you can't the Indy playoff game; basically one year.



Personally, I think that's the only thing that kept Leftwich from being a Raven.

Superb post! Every point you make is a classic. In this post alone you have illustrated how many of these McNair bashers cannot even get the basic facts correct but actually alter them in their weak attempts to bash McNair while overglorifying and grossly exaggerating any so-called improvement by Boller! It actually is so ludicrous it can be viewed as humorous!
Here is what I think of Boller and his alleged "improvement": Boller wasn't any good before and he isn't any good now.:)

[AgentOrange]

They obviously don't watch the games. /typical response.

To be honest though, there was nothing about Kyles performance that would show me that he is ready for the "big chair" yet.

I think we all agree that if both QBs are 100% healthy, McNair would be hte choice.

I don't have a problem with Boller in there what so ever right now, but I would like to see his arm win us a game or two this season if he has more opportunities for me to feel good about him in a starting role.

[AgentOrange]

I think it was more of a "I can go" situation, and it just didn't improve enough... so they wanted to give him 3 weeks of rest so that there's no question about him going into Pittsburgh.

I honestly don't think we've seen McNair 100% this year yet.

I also think Boller's getting a bit of a raw deal, getting tossed out there behind the most inexperienced line in the NFL. But you won't hear the kid complain.

I agree Boller is a good kid, but what else could we be doing with this line right now? We have injuries and the younger guys are the future, much like we want Kyle to be. I mean it might be unfortunate, but I don't think the Ravens are setting him up to fail, if that is what you are implying. I don't think you are though.

[Sports Guy]

I agree Boller is a good kid, but what else could we be doing with this line right now? We have injuries and the younger guys are the future, much like we want Kyle to be. I mean it might be unfortunate, but I don't think the Ravens are setting him up to fail, if that is what you are implying. I don't think you are though.
I think what he is saying is that people are judging Boller on his performance but his line is so young and inexperienced that it is not a proper judge of him as a player.

It is the same with those who are judging McNair solely off of this year...It is not fair to judge McNair and say he is done because of the way he has looked...He hasn't been healthy all year.

[AgentOrange]

I think what he is saying is that people are judging Boller on his performance but his line is so young and inexperienced that it is not a proper judge of him as a player.

It is the same with those who are judging McNair solely off of this year...It is not fair to judge McNair and say he is done because of the way he has looked...He hasn't been healthy all year.

Oh, I gotcha. That makes sense and I would agree on both accords.

[The Wedge]

I think what he is saying is that people are judging Boller on his performance but his line is so young and inexperienced that it is not a proper judge of him as a player.

It is the same with those who are judging McNair solely off of this year...It is not fair to judge McNair and say he is done because of the way he has looked...He hasn't been healthy all year.

Excellent post! Allow me to praise you, and remind everybody that we pretty much agree. I'd also like to express a general consternation with anybody who disagrees in even the slightest way with how we have made our argument. I know I really didn't add anything new, but if I don't do this, people might forget that I both agree with you, and disagree with others.

[The Wedge]

Oh, I gotcha. That makes sense and I would agree on both accords.

Most people would. People keep making this assumption that if you are advocating Boller starting right now, you are some how saying that McNair is 1) overall the inferior QB; 2) Done as a starting QB; 3) Saying Boller is the future; or 4) all of the above. It just ain't true. But I guess if you aren't a 100% Boller Basher, you have to be a 100% Boller Backer. It's all or nothing. :rolleyes:

[Hank Scorpio]

Right, I didn't mean to infer that the Ravens were setting up Boller to fail. I would like to think that kinda stuff does not happen in professional sports. They very much want Boller to succeed. We should all want Boller to succeed while he's in there, just as we should all want McNair to succeed.

They are asking KB to stand in there, win them 2 games and get them to the bye week. Part of that deal was taking a beating last week. Hopefully Flynn and Terry will be back for this weekend vs. Buffalo. If they are, we should have more success running the ball. I believe they are both practicing today.

[Hank Scorpio]

Excellent post! Allow me to praise you, and remind everybody that we pretty much agree. I'd also like to express a general consternation with anybody who disagrees in even the slightest way with how we have made our argument. I know I really didn't add anything new, but if I don't do this, people might forget that I both agree with you, and disagree with others.

This post made my head explode.

I was having such a good day, too.

[AgentOrange]

Right, I didn't mean to infer that the Ravens were setting up Boller to fail. I would like to think that kinda stuff does not happen in professional sports. They very much want Boller to succeed. We should all want Boller to succeed while he's in there, just as we should all want McNair to succeed.

They are asking KB to stand in there, win them 2 games and get them to the bye week. Part of that deal was taking a beating last week. Hopefully Flynn and Terry will be back for this weekend vs. Buffalo. If they are, we should have more success running the ball. I believe they are both practicing today.

Willis is looking to stick it to Buffalo too. I can't wait for the game. I hope McGahee goes for 150 and a TD.

[AgentOrange]

Excellent post! Allow me to praise you, and remind everybody that we pretty much agree. I'd also like to express a general consternation with anybody who disagrees in even the slightest way with how we have made our argument. I know I really didn't add anything new, but if I don't do this, people might forget that I both agree with you, and disagree with others.

Good post. I agree.








:002_shappy:

[The Wedge]

This post made my head explode.

I was having such a good day, too.


Sorry. I didn't mean to 'splode your head with mocking.

[ccbird]

Willis is looking to stick it to Buffalo too. I can't wait for the game. I hope McGahee goes for 150 and a TD.

I could be way off and I hope I am way off actually but I doubt Buffalo will let McGahee beat them. They will stick 8 in the box like St. Louis did, run blitz, and hope that they can get to Boller when we do pass.


It's probably going to be an ugly game but apparently Flynn and Terry practiced and will be back so that should help some.

[Hank Scorpio]

Sorry. I didn't mean to 'splode your head with mocking.

Hahaha no worries, it doesn't take much today.

[Old#5fan]

I have a theory that you could have an all pro at every position on the Ravens offensive line and with a healthy Steve Mcnair as the QB they would go to the superbowl right now but not necessarily win it. I also think with the same all-pro OL and Kyle Boller as the QB they don't even make the playoffs. Yes, there is that big of a difference.

[Hank Scorpio]

I have a theory that you could have an all pro at every position on the Ravens offensive line and with a healthy Steve Mcnair as the QB they would go to the superbowl right now but not necessarily win it. I also think with the same all-pro OL and Kyle Boller as the QB they don't even make the playoffs. Yes, there is that big of a difference.

There's no way this team, even if 100% healthy, is the best team in the AFC.

[Old#5fan]

There's no way this team, even if 100% healthy, is the best team in the AFC.

I agree, I was just espousing if the entire OL of the Ravens was pro-bowl quality!

[MikeAD]

I have a theory that you could have an all pro at every position on the Ravens offensive line and with a healthy Steve Mcnair as the QB they would go to the superbowl right now but not necessarily win it. I also think with the same all-pro OL and Kyle Boller as the QB they don't even make the playoffs. Yes, there is that big of a difference.

I think if you put a healthy Steve McNair on Indy or New England, the team wins 10 games at best.

A healthy Steve McNair...isn't that an oxymoron by now?

[Old#5fan]

I think if you put a healthy Steve McNair on Indy or New England, the team wins 10 games at best.

A healthy Steve McNair...isn't that an oxymoron by now?

I disagree. With a healthy McNair they easily win at least 12 games. With Boller on either team they would be lucky to win 10.

[ravensd5255]

I disagree. With a healthy McNair they easily win at least 12 games. With Boller on either team they would be lucky to win 10.


Man you just crack me up lol

[biggsy]

Man you just crack me up lol

Well the man did just lose to the Bills because he couldn't put more then 20 points on they're 32nd ranked defense.

[NewMarketSean]

Well the man did just lose to the Bills because he couldn't put more then 20 points on they're 32nd ranked defense.

I'm sure McNair would have put up 35.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Well the man did just lose to the Bills because he couldn't put more then 20 points on they're 32nd ranked defense.

It must really suck for Boller, since he has to play one-on-11 against the defense. That should make everything he does all the more impressive!

[ccbird]

The bottom line is Boller wasn't good enough yesterday. Pretty much like every other time he has started a game on the road. It is a point Oldfan has thrown out there that simply cannot be disputed.

Orange, pretty much nailed it in the other thread. Boller didn't lose the game yesterday but he had an opportunity to win it and he didn't come through. Boller rarely will flat out lose games because of the ball control, protect the ball offense we have. However, he isn't a difference maker, a play maker if you will, at the QB position that is going to win games for you either. To be fair McNair isn't a playmaker at this point in his career either but I'm more convinced than ever he gives us a better chance to win, especially on the road and against good teams.

The truth is and I mentioned it a long long time ago in this thread is that we don't have our future QB beyond 2008 on our roster right now and it's something I think we really need to address in next year's loaded QB draft.

[Sports Guy]

The bottom line is Boller wasn't good enough yesterday. Pretty much like every other time he has started a game on the road. It is a point Oldfan has thrown out there that simply cannot be disputed.

Orange, pretty much nailed it in the other thread. Boller didn't lose the game yesterday but he had an opportunity to win it and he didn't come through. Boller rarely will flat out lose games because of the ball control, protect the ball offense we have. However, he isn't a difference maker, a play maker if you will, at the QB position that is going to win games for you either. To be fair McNair isn't a playmaker at this point in his career either but I'm more convinced than ever he gives us a better chance to win, especially on the road and against good teams.

The truth is and I mentioned it a long long time ago in this thread is that we don't have our future QB beyond 2008 on our roster right now and it's something I think we really need to address in next year's loaded QB draft.

He also wasn't anywhere close to the reason we lost.

[NewMarketSean]

Orange, pretty much nailed it in the other thread. Boller didn't lose the game yesterday but he had an opportunity to win it and he didn't come through. Boller rarely will flat out lose games because of the ball control, protect the ball offense we have. However, he isn't a difference maker, a play maker if you will, at the QB position that is going to win games for you either.

This doesn't make any sense. On one hand you say the playcalling is a ball control/protection kind of offense, which results in Boller not losing the game single-handedly. But then on the other hand you blame Boller for not winning games either. So how can Boller operate within this "ball control" offense and win games, like you say he should?

[The Wedge]

Why do argue with people who aren't going to change their mind about Boller, even if walks on water? Especially some (not all of them, not pigeonholing the entire Basher Brigade) who actively watch to find only the faults?

[AgentOrange]

This doesn't make any sense. On one hand you say the playcalling is a ball control/protection kind of offense, which results in Boller not losing the game single-handedly. But then on the other hand you blame Boller for not winning games either. So how can Boller operate within this "ball control" offense and win games, like you say he should?

Sean, he did have an opportunity to win that game yesterday. He didn't do it.

You can win some games as a QB in this offense as well. We take shots down the field, if you are an accurate QB with the long pass, you can win a few games with this Defense.

That goes for McNair and Boller, neither can really do it.

McNair did win us a few games last year though, which was refreshing.

[AgentOrange]

Why do argue with people who aren't going to change their mind about Boller, even if walks on water? Especially some (not all of them, not pigeonholing the entire Basher Brigade) who actively watch to find only the faults?

Here is the problem with that. People who say anything wrong with his performance are immediatley considered "bashers" which is pretty unfair, IMO. We should have the right to talk about a QB's poor performance if we want to.

There are too many scapegoats on this team, IMO.

The QB, on any team, is the main focal point. There is no way around it. Sucks for Boller, but that is how it goes.

[The Wedge]

Here is the problem with that. People who say anything wrong with his performance are immediatley considered "bashers" which is pretty unfair, IMO. We should have the right to talk about a QB's poor performance if we want to.

There are too many scapegoats on this team, IMO.

The QB, on any team, is the main focal point. There is no way around it. Sucks for Boller, but that is how it goes.

You weren't a part of that. You're being rational about it. You've always been rational about it. I disagree with your stance, as I saw plenty of things throughout the game from Boller that kept them in a position to even have a chance to blow it at the end, and I really take more umbridge with the play calling than the execution of bone headed play calling. But you aren't someone "zeroing in" on one guy to make the almight scapegoat of everything that's wrong with the team.

[Old#5fan]

Why do argue with people who aren't going to change their mind about Boller, even if walks on water? Especially some (not all of them, not pigeonholing the entire Basher Brigade) who actively watch to find only the faults?

Pray tell when Boller has ever come close to walking on water? He rarely comes close to resembling a starting NFL QB for an entire game. His faults are evident to anyone who watches the games. Its not anything the average fan doesn't easily observe. They are GLARING FLAWS that always surface at the worst possible time, usually on the road when the quarterback needs to step up his game and lead his team to a win.

[biggsy]

I'm sure McNair would have put up 35.

Did I say that ? All I said is Boller couldn't put up more then 20 Pts. on the 32nd ranked defense. I had no mention of McNair and what he would've done.


It must really suck for Boller, since he has to play one-on-11 against the defense. That should make everything he does all the more impressive!


Well appearently in the Bengals game thats what McNair must have been doing.

[biggsy]

This doesn't make any sense. On one hand you say the playcalling is a ball control/protection kind of offense, which results in Boller not losing the game single-handedly. But then on the other hand you blame Boller for not winning games either. So how can Boller operate within this "ball control" offense and win games, like you say he should?


But wait...a couple of weeks ago weren't you guys saying if Boller was the QB the playbook would open up ? It was McNair slowing our offense wasn't it ? He has such a great deep ball that were just tearing up the scoreboard...wait...nevermind.

[Hank Scorpio]

Here is the problem with that. People who say anything wrong with his performance are immediatley considered "bashers" which is pretty unfair, IMO. We should have the right to talk about a QB's poor performance if we want to.

There are too many scapegoats on this team, IMO.

The QB, on any team, is the main focal point. There is no way around it. Sucks for Boller, but that is how it goes.

Basher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

;)

[MP]

I think this is the exact same thread from 2-3 years ago. Same parties, super-glued to their respective sides, with the exact same debate points. Amazing! It's a mouse on a wheel - tons of energy expended but it's going nowhere.

AgentOrange - you're the man over here. Keep it up, hoss.

(but you stole your Earth coverage tagline from Smoot!)

[AgentOrange]

I think this is the exact same thread from 2-3 years ago. Same parties, super-glued to their respective sides, with the exact same debate points. Amazing! It's a mouse on a wheel - tons of energy expended but it's going nowhere.

AgentOrange - you're the man over here. Keep it up, hoss.

(but you stole your Earth coverage tagline from Smoot!)


Thanks MP. I think its time to change it anyways...

Nice to see you around. Now that the dirty towels are doing well, I should expect to see you more? :002_shappy:

[MP]

Thanks MP. I think its time to change it anyways...

Nice to see you around. Now that the dirty towels are doing well, I should expect to see you more? :002_shappy:

Nah, it's unrelated. I posted a lot last year, when the Ravens were whooping our tails! So please don't think I only poke my head out when we're winning. Heck, we just lost a primetimer.

For me it's about the Orioles, and I just...couldn't take it anymore. I just got disgusted, in every sense of the word, and had to separate from it. Had to get it away and focus on other things. That meant the site went too. I stopped posting around June, and just started sniffing around a few weeks ago. I still can't bring myself to read through an entire thread on the Orioles side. I'm paying attention privately to see if they take this off-season seriously. I doubt I'll get back to any regular posting though.

For the record, I hope both teams are at 100% health for your upcoming game with the Steelers. No side-stories, no asterisks, no excuses, let's just play. I'll be back to talk before that game, AO! :)

[ccbird]

This doesn't make any sense. On one hand you say the playcalling is a ball control/protection kind of offense, which results in Boller not losing the game single-handedly. But then on the other hand you blame Boller for not winning games either. So how can Boller operate within this "ball control" offense and win games, like you say he should?
A QB can be successful in a ball control offense. McNair was last year, Garcia is doing a pretty good job in Tampa with no running back and he did a great job of it last year in Philly.


But I see how it goes, this week Billick is Boller's excuse. You know his scemes and playcalling are holding Boller back. Same story just a different week. No, just a different year. I don't even care to debate Boller anymore. I simply don't believe in him or his skills. I'll simply leave it at that. I could go more in depth but we have gone round and round on his particular skills and stats many times before and there is nothing I could say that I haven't already said at least 10 times already in the last month.

Again, for me and probably even for a lot of you Boller supporters the most important thing is finding our future QB. Even most of the Boller supporters will hopefully acknowledge that he shouldn't be anything more than a backup and we need to do better to have success in the future.

[NewMarketSean]

But wait...a couple of weeks ago weren't you guys saying if Boller was the QB the playbook would open up ? It was McNair slowing our offense wasn't it ? He has such a great deep ball that were just tearing up the scoreboard...wait...nevermind.

That is Billick's fault for calling the same offensive plays regardless of who the QB is. McNair and Boller may be similar QB's at this point in their careers, but Boller has a much better arm and can stretch the field, and that is something Billick is not taking advantage of.


A QB can be successful in a ball control offense. McNair was last year, Garcia is doing a pretty good job in Tampa with no running back and he did a great job of it last year in Philly.

But I see how it goes, this week Billick is Boller's excuse. You know his scemes and playcalling are holding Boller back. Same story just a different week. No, just a different year. I don't even care to debate Boller anymore. I simply don't believe in him or his skills. I'll simply leave it at that. I could go more in depth but we have gone round and round on his particular skills and stats many times before and there is nothing I could say that I haven't already said at least 10 times already in the last month.

Boller is not a good QB. But he's not a horrible one. That is where I stand. And after watching the game yesterday, where the defense allowed big plays and the play-calling at the end of the game was questionable, I just can't sit here and bash Boller like you all do.


Again, for me and probably even for a lot of you Boller supporters the most important thing is finding our future QB. Even most of the Boller supporters will hopefully acknowledge that he shouldn't be anything more than a backup and we need to do better to have success in the future.

Who is saying Boller should be the starter? He IS a back-up and starting because McNair is injured. Who is arguing against this?

[The Wedge]

Plus, the play book has opened up, to some extent. Boller was throwing passes that McNair couldn't handle, in his current condition anyway.

[NewMarketSean]

The TD pass on 4th and 10 or whatever it was was a thing of beauty. But you won't find anyone here crediting for the things he did well.

[AgentOrange]

The TD pass on 4th and 10 or whatever it was was a thing of beauty. But you won't find anyone here crediting for the things he did well.

That's because you don't read what people write.
Just Curious.
How did he get that field position to throw the TD pass?

[NewMarketSean]

That's because you don't read what people write.
Just Curious.
How did he get that field position to throw the TD pass?

It was the Rolle INT. Your point? Are we now taking credit away from Boller because all he did was throw a perfect TD pass on 4th down?

[The Wedge]

It was the Rolle INT. Your point? Are we now taking credit away from Boller because all he did was throw a perfect TD pass on 4th down?


That mentality drives me crazy. Yes, thank you, Samari Rolle for the timely INT. But the Ravens are notorious for not capitalizing in the red zone, regardless of starting field position. Why take that away from Boller, unless you are looking specifically for things to poo-poo with him?

The guy wasn't perfect, and maybe some better execution at the end counteracts the horrific play calling from his coach. But he's way down on the list of people to throw under the bus after that loss.

[ChaosLex]

I'm sure McNair would have put up 35.

No, he would've put up 49. :rolleyes:

Seriously people, this Boller hatred is irrational.

[The Wedge]

No, he would've put up 49. :rolleyes:

Seriously people, this Boller hatred is irrational.

It wouldn't be so exasperating if the people who are so against him would sit back and stop staring so intently at the sun (or in this case, Boller) so that they can see the entire picture. There were about 100 things that went wrong on Sunday, and Boller's play, if you even count it as a negative, was like number 100.

[NewMarketSean]

No, he would've put up 49. :rolleyes:

Seriously people, this Boller hatred is irrational.

I know. I wonder where it comes from? I mean really... I'm guessing it comes from the fact that we were a bonafide playoff contender in 2003 and Billick opted to go with Boller over Redman and when Boller wasn't the second coming of Tom Brady the fans wanted his head on a stake. But wouldn't Billick be to blame for that decision?

Anyway, I guess when he failed to show signs of improvement for a few years, despite having one of the worst offensive surrounding casts in the NFL, they couldn't take it. He was already dead to them.

But I think for some, it represents something deeper, something that we don't want to know about the people who relentlessly bash Boller. Maybe it's something from their childhood... maybe the Ravens are all they have in their lives... I don't know.

But the Boller hatred is creepy.

[Sports Guy]

There was a good discussion on Mike and Mike this morning....They were talking about how Steve Young eluded to the fact that after Brady and Manning, the quarterback play in the league just isn't that good.

Sure guys like Palmer are very good and Palmer has O-line issues himself but all in all, i agree with Young.

Many of the Boller complainers simply aren't looking at what is out there QB wise right now.

There are very QBs in the league right now that i feel confident giving them ball to and saying, go win me this game...Not manage it..Win it.

There just aren't many.

People are pointing out the negatives of Boller..Locking onto WR...Getting passes batted down...Things like that.

Guess what, watch an NFL game...Practically every QB is going through that.

It amazes me how credit is not ever given to the other side for executing the right way either.

[Old#5fan]

The TD pass on 4th and 10 or whatever it was was a thing of beauty. But you won't find anyone here crediting for the things he did well.

Thats because the other side of the Boller coin is he cannot make a basic screen pass to the right shoulder of the back without telegraphing it completely, nor can he handle the normal blitz up the middle without failing horribly by throwing off his back foot, not moving well under pressure and ot communicating with his receiver to hit the hot read accurately. Yeah, he does one thing well which is great but the basic stuff he is terrible and that is inexcusable at this point in his career. I have seen many, many rookie QB's execute a better screen pass. Heck, even Redman and Anthony Wright could do that!

[Sports Guy]

Thats because the other side of the Boller coin is he cannot make a basic screen pass to the right shoulder of the back without telegraphing it completely, nor can he handle the normal blitz up the middle without failing horribly by throwing off his back foot, not moving well under pressure and ot communicating with his receiver to hit the hot read accurately. Yeah, he does one thing well which is great but the basic stuff he is terrible and that is inexcusable at this point in his career. I have seen many, many rookie QB's execute a better screen pass. Heck, even Redman and Anthony Wright could do that!

Really? We never really ran a screen when they were here.

And if you think the pass to Musa Smith was a screen pass, you are wrong. I wonder if you have watched football for 40 years or 40 minutes.

[Old#5fan]

It wouldn't be so exasperating if the people who are so against him would sit back and stop staring so intently at the sun (or in this case, Boller) so that they can see the entire picture. There were about 100 things that went wrong on Sunday, and Boller's play, if you even count it as a negative, was like number 100.

Since Boller's most horrid plays of the game were at the final moment when it was do or die, I cannot possibly fathom how you can give such little weight to it? If he had come through at the end I am quite certain you and NMSean would be singing his praises to high heaven and annointing him as the future starter who has regained the throne. However, since he tanked you guys take the usual minimalization of Boller's fatal flaws strategy. You guys should work as Damage Control Agents for the CIA or something! Yes, you are that good!:p

[Old#5fan]

Really? We never really ran a screen when they were here.

And if you think the pass to Musa Smith was a screen pass, you are wrong. I wonder if you have watched football for 40 years or 40 minutes.

I know what a screen pass is. I probably was watching them before many of you were in diapers. The reason I mention it was when a defense is blitzing like the Bills were straight up the middle it is a great call against that defense. The problem is Boller simply cannot execute it and the Bills of course knew that. ERgo, Billick has a lack of one of the best weapons available to counter that middle blitz soley because of Boller and his serious limitations. If McNair was in there I doubt the Bills blitz up the middle because the know he can throw the screen at any time by checking down to it.

[NewMarketSean]

Since Boller's most horrid plays of the game were at the final moment when it was do or die, I cannot possibly fathom how you can give such little weight to it? If he had come through at the end I am quite certain you and NMSean would be singing his praises to high heaven and annointing him as the future starter who has regained the throne. However, since he tanked you guys take the usual minimalization of Boller's fatal flaws strategy. You guys should work as Damage Control Agents for the CIA or something! Yes, you are that good!:p

Think about it. If before the game someone told you that Kyle Boller would have thrown a TD pass, not turned the ball over, and overall played average while Willis McGahee had over 100 yards and a rushing TD, would you have thought the Ravens would have lost to the Bills?

Answer that question for me and I will take you off ignore.

[NewMarketSean]

I know what a screen pass is. I probably was watching them before many of you were in diapers. The reason I mention it was when a defense is blitzing like the Bills were straight up the middle it is a great call against that defense. The problem is Boller simply cannot execute it and the Bills of course knew that. ERgo, Billick has a lack of one of the best weapons available to counter that middle blitz soley because of Boller and his serious limitations. If McNair was in there I doubt the Bills blitz up the middle because the know he can throw the screen at any time by checking down to it.

You can also add this one to the list of "I know everything because I've watched football on TV and you don't know jack", something you said you have never done.

[Sports Guy]

I know what a screen pass is. I probably was watching them before many of you were in diapers. The reason I mention it was when a defense is blitzing like the Bills were straight up the middle it is a great call against that defense. The problem is Boller simply cannot execute it and the Bills of course knew that. ERgo, Billick has a lack of one of the best weapons available to counter that middle blitz soley because of Boller and his serious limitations. If McNair was in there I doubt the Bills blitz up the middle because the know he can throw the screen at any time by checking down to it.

Any team would blitz an immobile QB on 4th down when he is in the shot gun and they are not giving any indication of running the ball.

BTW, the 4th down play was beyond awful....But again, it was awful on many accounts.

And i will tell you what, even if Boller had completed it, i don't think Musa gets the first down...He was .5-1 yard short of the marker and the defender was right there.

It was a poorly designed and executed play.

But again, to pin the loss on the last 3 plays is idiotic but expected from you.

You still continue to ignore everything else so really, you are just showing yourself to be a Boller bashing troll with very little knowledge about the game of football.

[Old#5fan]

Think about it. If before the game someone told you that Kyle Boller would have thrown a TD pass, not turned the ball over, and overall played average while Willis McGahee had over 100 yards and a rushing TD, would you have thought the Ravens would have lost to the Bills?

Answer that question for me and I will take you off ignore.

I would have thought they would have won, and I would have thought (for Boller) that it was a better road game than usual for him (I have very low expectations of him on the road). Actually his ratings were better than last week against the horrid Rams at home. Where I fault Boller mainly in the Buffalo game is those last three plays which I think were a microcosm of classic Boller flaws which were shown clearly and which is why he will never be a viable starting NFL QB.

[Sports Guy]

Boller's QB rating is barely under McNair's right now and his rating on Sunday was better than 3 of the 4 games McNair has played this year.

[Old#5fan]

You can also add this one to the list of "I know everything because I've watched football on TV and you don't know jack", something you said you have never done.

No, I was merely defending a very smart alec type accusation that I didn't know what a screen pass was. That would be like me telling another poster they don't know how to spell the name of the team. Very insulting and uncalled for, and I merely responded as it was warranted.

[MikeAD]

No, I was merely defending a very smart alec type accusation that I didn't know what a screen pass was. That would be like me telling another poster they don't know how to spell the name of the team. Very insulting and uncalled for, and I merely responded as it was warranted.

I really don't think that was the aim there. Back when Redman and Wrigth were our QBs a main complaint from myself, SG, and others was that we NEVER ran screen passes, despite having very agile RBs who had good hands.

[Old#5fan]

Boller's QB rating is barely under McNair's right now and his rating on Sunday was better than 3 of the 4 games McNair has played this year.

So? Boller has been playing 100% healthy to the best of my knowledge and McNair has been playing hurt. So I fail to see much relevance to that. Maybe you should compare McNair's ratings last season when he led the team to a 12-3 record as the starter and was healthy. Maybe that would be more accurate of a comparison don't ya think?:confused: :(

[Old#5fan]

I really don't think that was the aim there. Back when Redman and Wrigth were our QBs a main complaint from myself, SG, and others was that we NEVER ran screen passes, despite having very agile RBs who had good hands.

They did run screen passes back then. They even ran them when Dilfer was the QB during the superbowl run. They didn't run them with Tony Banks, because almost a mirror image of Boller, Banks couldn't throw a screen to save his sorry hindquarters. Granted it wasn't a great, well designed screen, it was more of a pass in the flat to Jamal or Chester Taylor when he was here, but it worked. Part of the reason was the immobility of the line to execute it as Grbac certainly could execute a screen as could Redman.

[NewMarketSean]

I would have thought they would have won, and I would have thought (for Boller) that it was a better road game than usual for him (I have very low expectations of him on the road). Actually his ratings were better than last week against the horrid Rams at home. Where I fault Boller mainly in the Buffalo game is those last three plays which I think were a microcosm of classic Boller flaws which were shown clearly and which is why he will never be a viable starting NFL QB.

So you will focus on 3 plays (that happened to occur at the end of the game) over a bunch of other things that he did right and then blame the loss on Boller? Not surprising, since you put almost as much weight into preseason games as you do regular season games.

Wow. I guess I have to take you off ignore, but I don't want to. Even though I was responding to you while on ignore.

Oh well.

[biggsy]

The TD pass on 4th and 10 or whatever it was was a thing of beauty. But you won't find anyone here crediting for the things he did well.

Yes it was. That pass was as beautiful as it gets in the NFL. The only one this year that I can think of that may have been better was the Manning to Wayne pass in last nights MNF game.

I also remember one of the most amazing catches I have ever seen was from Travis Taylor, that one handed grab as he was falling to the ground a few years back. Did that catch make up for the dozens of horribly dropped passes ?

In fact I made that comparison after that TD pass from Boller. He really is the Travis Taylor of QBs. He'll make a couple of good plays in a row and then make an amazing play to make you think that he's turned the corner, then he'll negate all the good he just did by falling back on old habits and making 10 bad plays or a horrible mistake.


It was the Rolle INT. Your point? Are we now taking credit away from Boller because all he did was throw a perfect TD pass on 4th down?

I'm not gonna put words in his mouth but I think his point was that Boller didn't lead a drive at all, he was given the ball in the redzone to start with.



No, he would've put up 49. :rolleyes:

Seriously people, this Boller hatred is irrational.

I love it. I said nothing about what McNair would have or wouldn't have done had he played. I stated the truth, Boller couldn't put up more then 20 points on one of the worst defenses in the NFL. newmarketsean has nothing he can really say to protect Boller from that statement so he puts words in my mouth as his source for an argument.


It wouldn't be so exasperating if the people who are so against him would sit back and stop staring so intently at the sun (or in this case, Boller) so that they can see the entire picture. There were about 100 things that went wrong on Sunday, and Boller's play, if you even count it as a negative, was like number 100.

I don't know if this was aimed at me or not but I've never been "so against him" In fact I loved the trade up and drafting of Boller when it happend. I supported him the first 2 years he started. But it just became so painfully obvious he was not a good NFL QB and he showed no signs of any kind of improvement that would prove that wrong. If you wanna look at the whole picture, lets go. Last year, McNair is brought in, barely knowing the playbook or system and with damn near no running game and the same supporting cast of WR's McNair took damn near the same team Boller had and went 13-3 with a first round bye in the playoffs. Whats that gotta say about the former QB of the team ? Especially considering QB was the only major change from the year before.



Anyway, I guess when he failed to show signs of improvement for a few years, despite having one of the worst offensive surrounding casts in the NFL, they couldn't take it. He was already dead to them..

Once again, nearly the same identical team McNair was given last year and went 13-3 with.


Boller's QB rating is barely under McNair's right now and his rating on Sunday was better than 3 of the 4 games McNair has played this year.

But wait, last week when Boller had a QB rating in the 60's, QB ratings were the dumbest stat ever and didn't matter at all. Damn son, you flip-flop more then any politician I have ever seen.


Once again, lets see if sportsguy and newmarketsean actually READ this part or just stay fixated on only certain parts of my post. I have no agenda against Boller or for McNair. I simply state what I see. It's so painfully obvious Boller is not a good starting QB in the NFL. At this point whether it was the injuries or age McNair hasn't looked too much better so far this year. However at this point, after watching Boller the past 2 weeks, IMO McNair still gives us the best chance to win.

As cecilterp said, past 2008 the QB position of this team looks to be in pretty bad shape. Whether you love or hate Boller or McNair you can't deny that fact. We definitely need to look for one in next years draft.

[Old#5fan]

So you will focus on 3 plays (that happened to occur at the end of the game) over a bunch of other things that he did right and then blame the loss on Boller? Not surprising, since you put almost as much weight into preseason games as you do regular season games.

Wow. I guess I have to take you off ignore, but I don't want to. Even though I was responding to you while on ignore.

Oh well.

Where I fault Boller mainly in the Buffalo game is those last three plays which I think were a microcosm of classic Boller flaws which were shown clearly and which is why he will never be a viable starting NFL QB. I am not trying to be a wise guy, but what part of that statement do you not understand?:confused:

Boller technically (as I have stated before) did not lose the Buffalo game but he certainly had a golden opportunity to win it for his team and instead put together three of the most horrid looking plays in a row at the worst possible time in the game. If you want to overlook that fine, but to me I want Boller sitting safely on the bench in future scenarios such as that. End of story on this particular game by Boller for me as I have now repeated myself I stand by my above statement.

[NewMarketSean]

Yes it was. That pass was as beautiful as it gets in the NFL. The only one this year that I can think of that may have been better was the Manning to Wayne pass in last nights MNF game.

I also remember one of the most amazing catches I have ever seen was from Travis Taylor, that one handed grab as he was falling to the ground a few years back. Did that catch make up for the dozens of horribly dropped passes ?

In fact I made that comparison after that TD pass from Boller. He really is the Travis Taylor of QBs. He'll make a couple of good plays in a row and then make an amazing play to make you think that he's turned the corner, then he'll negate all the good he just did by falling back on old habits and making 10 bad plays or a horrible mistake.

If we are looking at Boller with a game-by-game analysis (which is impossible to do with Boller bashers since they love to live in the past), then you can't say that TD pass was offset by the "10 bad plays" that Boller made in that BUF game, because he didn't make 10 mistakes. Yeah, he under/over threw a few passes, but EVERY QB does that!

As a matter of fact, I haven't seen Boller stumble and bumble his way around the football field at all during the last 2 years because (shocker) he's improved! He stands in the pocket longer and reads defenses better. Now he may not have McNair's pocket presence but he has improved and I don't believe it can be debated.


I'm not gonna put words in his mouth but I think his point was that Boller didn't lead a drive at all, he was given the ball in the redzone to start with.

Oh so now it's Boller's fault he couldn't lead a drive from the Ravens 20 yard line just to silence critics? What more do you want from him??? He was given the ball in the endzone AND HE SCORED A TD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amazing that people can criticize Boller for getting the ball in the redzone and actually doing his job. Amazing.


I love it. I said nothing about what McNair would have or wouldn't have done had he played. I stated the truth, Boller couldn't put up more then 20 points on one of the worst defenses in the NFL. newmarketsean has nothing he can really say to protect Boller from that statement so he puts words in my mouth as his source for an argument.

No, I do have something to say about it. You act like Boller is the reason we lost and I was pointing out that McNair wouldn't have done any better. So if McNair wouldn't have done any better, based on his recent stats, then what is the point in complaining about Boller if we would have lost the game no matter who started? I know it'll never be known since McNair didn't play, but come on, McNair is no better than Boller right now. You can't say we would have won with McNair anymore than I can say we would have lost with him.

And any other year, the Ravens win this game with defense. Now that the defense isn't as good as it used to be, we are losing these games.

But again, thats Bollers fault. :rolleyes:

[NewMarketSean]

Where I fault Boller mainly in the Buffalo game is those last three plays which I think were a microcosm of classic Boller flaws which were shown clearly and which is why he will never be a viable starting NFL QB. I am not trying to be a wise guy, but what part of that statement do you not understand?:confused:

You're picking and choosing you're arguments as you why you don't like Boller. You're basically saying you'll ignore 95% of the available data so you can sleep at night.

Whatever floats your boat. But people with 40+ years of television watching would look at all aspects of something and then make a judgement. Maybe the Neilsens should revoke your membership.

[Mark Carver]

I know what a screen pass is. I probably was watching them before many of you were in diapers. The reason I mention it was when a defense is blitzing like the Bills were straight up the middle it is a great call against that defense. The problem is Boller simply cannot execute it and the Bills of course knew that. ERgo, Billick has a lack of one of the best weapons available to counter that middle blitz soley because of Boller and his serious limitations. If McNair was in there I doubt the Bills blitz up the middle because the know he can throw the screen at any time by checking down to it.

:rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes:

[Old#5fan]

You're picking and choosing you're arguments as you why you don't like Boller. You're basically saying you'll ignore 95% of the available data so you can sleep at night.

Whatever floats your boat. But people with 40+ years of television watching would look at all aspects of something and then make a judgement. Maybe the Neilsens should revoke your membership.

What does my watching the games on tv have to do with anything? I guarantee you most NFL fans watch the games on tv. Even if you have season tickets there are only 8 home games. So don't act like I am some sort of anomoly by watching the games at home on tv. I fail to see your point in making those kind of statements as they bring nada to your supposed argument?

I am not picking and chosing anything, but since you insist I will ask you to pick and choose from the following: Which QB would you prefer to have in at the end of a road game on a final drive where your team needs a TD and has less than two minutes and one timeout?:

a) a strong armed, fairly young but erratic QB with below average poise, below average ability to manuever under pressure in the pocket, and with the tendancy to lock onto receivers who also has demonstrated repeatedly he simply cannot throw a screen pass and is terrible at checking down and hitting his hot read under pressure along with a 5-13 road record as a Ravens QB, or

b) an average to slightly below average armed, fairly old, but experienced and normally accurate QB with superb poise, above average ability to manuver under pressure in the pocket, who can throw a screen pass with ease, who rarely locks onto receivers, and is above average at checking down and hitting his hot read under pressure, along with a winning road record in his first season as a Ravens QB

If you pick anything other than b) I will probably simply choose to ignore your posts from now on as you clearly are biased against McNair and have a completely distorted (over-inflated) opinion of Boller.

[NewMarketSean]

What does my watching the games on tv have to do with anything? I guarantee you most NFL fans watch the games on tv. Even if you have season tickets there are only 8 home games. So don't act like I am some sort of anomoly by watching the games at home on tv. I fail to see your point in making those kind of statements as they bring nada to your supposed argument?

I am not picking and chosing anything, but since you insist I will ask you to pick and choose from the following: Which QB would you prefer to have in at the end of a road game on a final drive where your team needs a TD and has less than two minutes and one timeout?:

a) a strong armed, fairly young but erratic QB with below average poise, below average ability to manuever under pressure in the pocket, and with the tendancy to lock onto receivers who also has demonstrated repeatedly he simply cannot throw a screen pass and is terrible at checking down and hitting his hot read under pressure along with a 5-13 road record as a Ravens QB, or

b) an average to slightly below average armed, fairly old, but experienced and normally accurate QB with superb poise, above average ability to manuver under pressure in the pocket, who can throw a screen pass with ease, who rarely locks onto receivers, and is above average at checking down and hitting his hot read under pressure, along with a winning road record in his first season as a Ravens QB

If you pick anything other than b) I will probably simply choose to ignore your posts from now on as you clearly are biased against McNair and have a completely distorted (over-inflated) opinion of Boller.

This is not the argument. Of course I would rather have a healthy McNair in that situation over Boller, regardless of the strokes in which you paint Boller. McNair lead us to a 13-3 record last year. Now, he wasn't the only reason but he was a reason. Plus he had experience on the road which is something Boller has been poor with.

But what the argument IS about is whether or not Boller is solely to blame for the loss. I say Boller is probably one of the lowest reasons for the loss and you are saying he is the only reason.

As for the TV watching thing, you love to bring it up all the time, so I am going to bring it up too when it contradicts with your arguments. Plus I think it is just a silly thing to say. No one else here brings up their TV watching experience when making an argument but you do in every other post you make it seems. Most times, people use stats to support an argument. And you also make a lot of silly statements for someone who prides themselves for watching so many years of sports.

I also think that had you had some in-game experience, IE, actually played some sports growing up, that you wouldn't be so adamant in pointing out your sports watching resume. Maybe you did play sports, I don't know. But I find it hard to believe you did based on some of the statements you make.

[Sports Guy]

So? Boller has been playing 100% healthy to the best of my knowledge and McNair has been playing hurt. So I fail to see much relevance to that. Maybe you should compare McNair's ratings last season when he led the team to a 12-3 record as the starter and was healthy. Maybe that would be more accurate of a comparison don't ya think?:confused: :(

Now who is making the excuses?

[AgentOrange]

Now who is making the excuses?

Come on Rob. You know he is hurt, you have said it multiple times over the last couple weeks when he was playing.

[Sports Guy]

But wait, last week when Boller had a QB rating in the 60's, QB ratings were the dumbest stat ever and didn't matter at all. Damn son, you flip-flop more then any politician I have ever seen.


Once again, lets see if sportsguy and newmarketsean actually READ this part or just stay fixated on only certain parts of my post. I have no agenda against Boller or for McNair. I simply state what I see. It's so painfully obvious Boller is not a good starting QB in the NFL. At this point whether it was the injuries or age McNair hasn't looked too much better so far this year. However at this point, after watching Boller the past 2 weeks, IMO McNair still gives us the best chance to win.

As cecilterp said, past 2008 the QB position of this team looks to be in pretty bad shape. Whether you love or hate Boller or McNair you can't deny that fact. We definitely need to look for one in next years draft.
I guess the point of that post went over your head.

[Sports Guy]

Come on Rob. You know he is hurt, you have said it multiple times over the last couple weeks when he was playing.
Absolutely...But OldFan always cries when people use excuses for Boller...But yet it is ok for him to do the same.

It is just more of his bs.

[AgentOrange]

Absolutely...But OldFan always cries when people use excuses for Boller...But yet it is ok for him to do the same.

It is just more of his bs.

I hear ya. The QB position for the Ravens this year has been a let down on both accords. I don't really care why, it just stinks.