Tom Brady so far today...

[Sports Guy]

Just over 6 minutes left in 2nd quarter....11/11...220 yards...4 TDs.

Unbelievable how incredible he is playing.

[bryanman8]

Is this legal? This is absolutely insane.

[Sports Guy]

Ok..Halftime:

16-19...291 yards...5 TDs...AT HALFTIME!!!!

2 Receivers over 100 yards already.

[Spoonless]

He just got another 60+ yards and a 5th TD pass.

Must suck to be a Miami fan.

42-7 at the half.

[bryanman8]

In honor, I just renamed my fantasy team the "Pat Town Brady Bunch" with the abbreviation TOM. He has 41 fantasy points for me at halftime. I have 80 already because I have Welker too. Wow.

[Tank]

In honor, I just renamed my fantasy team the "Pat Town Brady Bunch" with the abbreviation TOM. He has 41 fantasy points for me at halftime. I have 80 already because I have Welker too. Wow.

Yeah, Brady is my QB too. I'm loving it. I got him in the best trade of my fantasy football playing career. Jon Kitna and Lavernarus Coles for Mr. Brady. The trade was completed right after week 2. The team I traded him too was hurting bad for a reciever, and Coles was my 4th WR.

[The Wedge]

He's not actually human. He's one of those reptillians.

[Sports Guy]

4 incompletions...6 TDs

Pretty good when you have more TDs than incompletions.

[NewMarketSean]

Whats insane is their refusal to run the ball. Yeah I've got Maroney on my FF team but as a casual fan, it's just amazing that they are up 35 pts and are still throwing. People say that will come back to haunt them but I don't see how, when they are killing the teams they play. I think they will go 16-0 this season. I know they could slip up, and all it takes is one slip up, but the way they are playing I don't see it happening.

[bryanman8]

Yeah, Brady is my QB too. I'm loving it. I got him in the best trade of my fantasy football playing career. Jon Kitna and Lavernarus Coles for Mr. Brady. The trade was completed right after week 2. The team I traded him too was hurting bad for a reciever, and Coles was my 4th WR.
Nice. I drafted him. As the 6th QB picked. Donovan McNabb went the pick before. :p

[geschinger]

Whats insane is their refusal to run the ball. Yeah I've got Maroney on my FF team but as a casual fan, it's just amazing that they are up 35 pts and are still throwing. People say that will come back to haunt them but I don't see how, when they are killing the teams they play. I think they will go 16-0 this season. I know they could slip up, and all it takes is one slip up, but the way they are playing I don't see it happening.

Not having a running game is not a factor early in the season. It may become more of a factor a month from now when the weather is not so accomodating. What surprises me more about throwing late is that Tom Brady is still in the game as late as he is blowouts.

[Sports Guy]

NE will be able to run the ball...Sammy Morris looked good...Maroney hasn't been healthy but when he is, he can be explosive.

[geschinger]

NE will be able to run the ball...Sammy Morris looked good...Maroney hasn't been healthy but when he is, he can be explosive.

I agree that they should be able to when Maroney runs the ball. But I have seen them try and fail to establish any kind of running threat in the redzone in previous games.

[mweb]

He won't have nearly as good of a game next week, but he'll still come away with an easy W.

[twoBshorty]

Brady has 27 TDs and only 2 INTs this season.

That's insane. He should have sat out the entire second half today.

[bryanman8]

He won't have nearly as good of a game next week, but he'll still come away with an easy W.
Skins 21- Pats 17

You heard it here first.

Just kidding. I think.

Fantasy question: How long do the Pats continue to care? If they're 12-0 will Brady still be playing? My fantasy playoffs are weeks 13-14 and then 15-16; should I consider dealing Brady or will he still be playing there to fight for maybe undefeated, TD record, homefield, whatever?F

[Sports Guy]

Skins 21- Pats 17

You heard it here first.

Just kidding. I think.

Fantasy question: How long do the Pats continue to care? If they're 12-0 will Brady still be playing? My fantasy playoffs are weeks 13-14 and then 15-16; should I consider dealing Brady or will he still be playing there to fight for maybe undefeated, TD record, homefield, whatever?F

You just go on a rant about your team stinks and then you think they beat the best team in football and maybe one of the best ever in NE?

LOL

[mweb]

Skins 21- Pats 17

You heard it here first.

Just kidding. I think.

Fantasy question: How long do the Pats continue to care? If they're 12-0 will Brady still be playing? My fantasy playoffs are weeks 13-14 and then 15-16; should I consider dealing Brady or will he still be playing there to fight for maybe undefeated, TD record, homefield, whatever?F

Says the guy who just said the Skins suck.;)

12-0, yes he'll still be playing because the Colts and/or Steelers will probably have about 10 wins, so they'll still be playing for home field. Plus, I don't think they'd want that long of a layoff before the playoffs. It really depends on the Colts game, if they lose that, they'll probably need to play for homefield through week 16 or 17. If their undefeated, I think they may go for that as well.

[twoBshorty]

Skins 21- Pats 17

You heard it here first.

Just kidding. I think.

Fantasy question: How long do the Pats continue to care? If they're 12-0 will Brady still be playing? My fantasy playoffs are weeks 13-14 and then 15-16; should I consider dealing Brady or will he still be playing there to fight for maybe undefeated, TD record, homefield, whatever?F

Have you been watching these games? The Pats are hitting these teams with a bus, backing up, and running over them again. They're pretty blatantly running up the score on everybody. The idea that they're going to let off the gas is silly. I don't know if it's a persecution complex over CameraGate or what (that's my guess), but this team is going for the throat and trying to rub everybody's face in it. They pulled Brady for like 3 minutes today and then put him back in. They were up 35-7 and ran a 2-minute drill! I think they're gunning for 16-0. Keep him.

[tennOsfan]

Brady is averaging almost four touchdowns a game. That's crazy.

It's a shame we can't have a Colts-Patriots Super Bowl.

[Spoonless]

Whats insane is their refusal to run the ball. Yeah I've got Maroney on my FF team but as a casual fan, it's just amazing that they are up 35 pts and are still throwing. People say that will come back to haunt them but I don't see how, when they are killing the teams they play. I think they will go 16-0 this season. I know they could slip up, and all it takes is one slip up, but the way they are playing I don't see it happening.

Well, Brady isn't really throwing it an inordinate amount of times per game. He's averaging just under 33 attempts per game. The Patriots are 7th in the NFL in rushing yards/game at just over 133.

[HoodGuy007]

He just got another 60+ yards and a 5th TD pass.

Must suck to be a Miami fan.

42-7 at the half.
It does. I can't express my disgust right now. There is no reason why this team is this bad. If you want to say they have gotten old, that's cool. But 42 points at halftime? That enough to make me cry. It's like watching the O's, but worse, because I don't see a glimmer of hope, other than Ronnie Brown.

God my sports-life sucks right now.

[NewMarketSean]

Using OldFan's logic, I wonder if the Patriots are winning just because of Tom Brady. I mean, it probably doesn't matter that Randy Moss caught 2 up for grabs TD's that could have easily gone for INT's and that they're the best coached and disciplined team in the NFL, right?

[bryanman8]

It does. I can't express my disgust right now. There is no reason why this team is this bad. If you want to say they have gotten old, that's cool. But 42 points at halftime? That enough to make me cry. It's like watching the O's, but worse, because I don't see a glimmer of hope, other than Ronnie Brown.

God my sports-life sucks right now.
Uh-oh.

My condolences.

And he was on my fantasy team. Doh!

Kid's a damn good player though. Hopefully he'll be back fine next year and should continue to blossom.

[The Wedge]

Using OldFan's logic, I wonder if the Patriots are winning just because of Tom Brady. I mean, it probably doesn't matter that Randy Moss caught 2 up for grabs TD's that could have easily gone for INT's and that they're the best coached and disciplined team in the NFL, right?


Has to be. Becuase it absolutely has to go both ways.

[square634]

Uh-oh.

My condolences.

And he was on my fantasy team. Doh!

Kid's a damn good player though. Hopefully he'll be back fine next year and should continue to blossom.

He's on my fantasy team, too, and he's on a no-cut list for some reason so I can't get rid of him :eek:

[Tank]

He's on my fantasy team, too, and he's on a no-cut list for some reason so I can't get rid of him :eek:

He'll come off of the no-cut list soon. They update it.

I proposed a trade about 2 weeks ago in my one league that included Ronnie Brown. It had been so long I forgot I even proposed it, so of course he accepted it right after he found out about the injury. What a jerk. Luckily I got the league to veto it...

[The Wedge]

Here's a question. If Brady keeps this pace up, breaks the single season TD record, etc, does he get put on the short list of greatest of all time immediately? I'd say probably yes. The only real knock I've heard since he started was that he was more of a game manager and that the Patriots were the team concept run to perfection.

[Mackus]

He won't have nearly as good of a game next week, but he'll still come away with an easy W.He might be having a better game! 29/38 for 306 yds and 3 scores and, oh yeah, 2 rushing TDs.

I think its become quite apparent that he is not human. Is it too early to sign his and Giselle Bundchen's fetus?

[Pedro Cerrano]

Bill Belichick is a classless piece of garbage. I hate the Redskins with every fiber of my being, but going for it on 4th & 1 while up 38-0 exhibits zero class. As far as I'm concerned, the Pats' coach is one level above what I deposited in my toilet 20 minutes ago.

[mweb]

He might be having a better game! 29/38 for 306 yds and 3 scores and, oh yeah, 2 rushing TDs.

I think its become quite apparent that he is not human. Is it too early to sign his and Giselle Bundchen's fetus?

It's not a better game, but yeah, very impressive. Too bad the Skins are missing Rogers and Smoot, and Campbell and the offense has been awful, so that's helped the NE offense.

[mweb]

Bill Belichick is a classless piece of garbage. I hate the Redskins with every fiber of my being, but going for it on 4th & 1 while up 38-0 exhibits zero class. As far as I'm concerned, the Pats' coach is one level above what I deposited in my tiolet 20 minutes ago.

Yeah, I agree, it's absurd that Brady is still even in the game. I hope he gets knocked out of a game one of these days when he should already be on the bench.

And for anyone wondering if the Pats will bench their players at the end of the season if their undefeated, I think this is good reason to believe that will not happen.

[Sports Guy]

I agree it is stupid for Brady to still be in.

That being said, i am glad because i needed that Welker TD. :D

This is just embarrassing for the Skins.

[twoBshorty]

Bill Belichick is a classless piece of garbage. I hate the Redskins with every fiber of my being, but going for it on 4th & 1 while up 38-0 exhibits zero class. As far as I'm concerned, the Pats' coach is one level above what I deposited in my tiolet 20 minutes ago.

Yeah, I dunno. I'm a Pats fan, so I'm not going to call their coach a piece of garbage, but I wasn't terribly happy with going for it on 4th down while up 38. Definitely a classless move. It definitely made me uncomfortable.

The thing is, they obviously just don't care. Belichick is clearly furious about something, probably what happened with CameraGate, and figures that if the league hates him anyway, why not just go whole hog. Not that what they did with the camera wasn't cheating, but I'm positive they're not the only ones that were doing it, and Belichick is probably pissed that he's been singled out and hung out to dry by the NFL. I really think this is about a big F YOU to the NFL and nothing really to do with the other teams they're victimizing, but he clearly has a vendetta.

And as I type, they make it 52-0 with their backup QB under center.

[mweb]

I agree it is stupid for Brady to still be in.

That being said, i am glad because i needed that Welker TD. :D

This is just embarrassing for the Skins.

Yep, pathetic performance.

[geschinger]

Yeah, I agree, it's absurd that Brady is still even in the game. I hope he gets knocked out of a game one of these days when he should already be on the bench.

And for anyone wondering if the Pats will bench their players at the end of the season if their undefeated, I think this is good reason to believe that will not happen.

Nobody gets even close to him, he has all day and then some in the pocket so I don't think they're putting his health at risk. But I think today removes any doubt whatsoever that Bellicheck is sending is all about sending a message by running up the score.

[Mackus]

I kinda like him running up the score. Its certainly not very sportsmanlike, but its a pretty awesome way of saying "my team is better than yours, and if you're stupid enough to think you even belong on the same field as me, I'm gonna embarass the hell out of you".

[mweb]

Nobody gets even close to him, he has all day and then some in the pocket so I don't think they're putting his health at risk. But I think today removes any doubt whatsoever that Bellicheck is sending is all about sending a message by running up the score.

The Skins got close to him a few times, Daniels caused a fumble on a play, and they only rushed 4 basically the whole game. If I was Greg Williams, I would have started blitzing to make sure some guys get a few shots on Brady, and to be honest, I wouldn't care if they had some personal fouls called on them.

And they did send Brady on a sneak with the game well in hand, so he could have taken a good hit then.

[mweb]

I kinda like him running up the score. Its certainly not very sportsmanlike, but its a pretty awesome way of saying "my team is better than yours, and if you're stupid enough to think you even belong on the same field as me, I'm gonna embarass the hell out of you".

Are you serious? I hope you never coach any teams.;)

There is nothing awesome about it.

[geschinger]

The Skins got close to him a few times, Daniels caused a fumble on a play, and they only rushed 4 basically the whole game. If I was Greg Williams, I would have started blitzing to make sure some guys get a few shots on Brady, and to be honest, I wouldn't care if they had some personal fouls called on them.

And they did send Brady on a sneak with the game well in hand, so he could have taken a good hit then.

They should of done something. There were some isolated instances of pressure but for the most part he had it easy.

Running up the score may end up at some point leading a player to take the fine and penalty and go Charles Martin on Brady.

[Sports Guy]

There is no such thing as running up the score IMO.

[Elbren]

Watching this game got me to thinking. Is the Pats Offense really this good or is this just the product of a really good team having a cakewalk of a schedule?? The other three teams in their division were 3 - 19 going into this week. Outside of the Colts and perhaps Pittsburgh, I don't see anything on their schedule that can/will challenge them.

What does everyone else think about this?


- Are they the real deal?

- Product of their schedule?

- somewhere inbetween??

[mweb]

Watching this game got me to thinking. Is the Pats Offense really this good or is this just the product of a really good team having a cakewalk of a schedule?? The other three teams in their division were 3 - 19 going into this week. Outside of the Colts and perhaps Pittsburgh, I don't see anything on their schedule that can/will challenge them.

What does everyone else think about this?


- Are they the real deal?

- Product of their schedule?

- somewhere inbetween??


Real deal, no doubt about it.

[Sports Guy]

Watching this game got me to thinking. Is the Pats Offense really this good or is this just the product of a really good team having a cakewalk of a schedule?? The other three teams in their division were 3 - 19 going into this week. Outside of the Colts and perhaps Pittsburgh, I don't see anything on their schedule that can/will challenge them.

What does everyone else think about this?


- Are they the real deal?

- Product of their schedule?

- somewhere inbetween??

The scary thing is this offense can be better because they aren't running the ball that much.

Wait until they start to do that when the weather gets worse.

The schedule helps but this team is ridiculous.

[geschinger]

Watching this game got me to thinking. Is the Pats Offense really this good or is this just the product of a really good team having a cakewalk of a schedule?? The other three teams in their division were 3 - 19 going into this week. Outside of the Colts and perhaps Pittsburgh, I don't see anything on their schedule that can/will challenge them.

What does everyone else think about this?


- Are they the real deal?

- Product of their schedule?

- somewhere inbetween??

They are the real deal but also are enhanced by the weakness of their schedule. I was thinking Washington would be a good test but they really weren't w/some of the guys they were missing.

All I know is that I'm really looking forward to next week, I just hope the Colts are a ready to play from the opening kickoff or they'll get blown out too.

[Pedro Cerrano]

My buddy had this as his away message but it echos my sentiments exactly (and I said something along these lines to my friend while watching the game):

"If I'm coaching one of these teams getting killed by the Patriots, here's what I do when I'm down five TDs and Brady is still in the game. I blitz at least 7 guys, maybe 8 or 9 every play. I make it a point to hit Brady and knock him down. If it's a 15-yard penalty, I don't care. I do it again. And again, until either he gets injured or Belichick takes him out. Dirty? Maybe. But how is that any dirtier than running up the score every game? You want to do that against my team, you'll be taking a major risk."

[mweb]

My buddy had this as his away message but it echos my sentiments exactly (and I said something along these lines to my friend while watching the game):

"If I'm coaching one of these teams getting killed by the Patriots, here's what I do when I'm down five TDs and Brady is still in the game. I blitz at least 7 guys, maybe 8 or 9 every play. I make it a point to hit Brady and knock him down. If it's a 15-yard penalty, I don't care. I do it again. And again, until either he gets injured or Belichick takes him out. Dirty? Maybe. But how is that any dirtier than running up the score every game? You want to do that against my team, you'll be taking a major risk."

Yep, that's basically what I said earlier.

[Pedro Cerrano]

There is no such thing as running up the score IMO.

Can you elaborate on this comment?

[Spoonless]

Can you elaborate on this comment?

Well, the biggest comeback in the NFL was 32 points. So, it's not like it isn't possible. Whatever you think will or won't happen, the offense is out there to score points. It's the other team's job to stop that. If you have to blitz 7 or 8 and take your penalties knocking Brady out, that's what you have to do. If "running up the score" is unsportsmanlike, why isn't there a "five touchdown rule," where if they go up by 5 TDs they just call the game? Furthermore, explain to me how it's "dirty." Yeah it sucks, and I don't necessarily agree with it, but it's the other team's job to stop their offense.

[Sports Guy]

Can you elaborate on this comment?

I just don't believe in the concept in any sport. I hate when baseball manager crys because a player steals a base when his team is up 7.

You play until the final second has clicked off. If the other team is willing to walk off the field, so be it....Indy scored like 17 points in 3 minutes agaisnt TB a few years ago...The Lions scored 34 on the Bears in the 4th quarter this year..Things happen

Now, i think Brady should have been out of the game but that is because of a health thing, not a scoreboard thing.

[twoBshorty]

When he's up by a ton of points, Belichick has been known to use the cushion to try to get his players some individual accomplishments (Testaverde, for example, and Doug Flutie's drop kick), so I bet he was leaving Brady in to try to continue his streak of 3 or more TDs in 8 straight games, or whatever the stat is.

[geschinger]

I just don't believe in the concept in any sport. I hate when baseball manager crys because a player steals a base when his team is up 7.

You play until the final second has clicked off. If the other team is willing to walk off the field, so be it....Indy scored like 17 points in 3 minutes agaisnt TB a few years ago...The Lions scored 34 on the Bears in the 4th quarter this year..Things happen

Now, i think Brady should have been out of the game but that is because of a health thing, not a scoreboard thing.

I hate it too when an opposing manager or coach complains in those situations. And any time a play is called, I think the players should give it their all. But there is no reason I can think of for why it might be a good idea to be calling bombs and going for it on fourth down and leaving the starting QB in there up by 38.

[mweb]

I just don't believe in the concept in any sport. I hate when baseball manager crys because a player steals a base when his team is up 7.

You play until the final second has clicked off. If the other team is willing to walk off the field, so be it....Indy scored like 17 points in 3 minutes agaisnt TB a few years ago...The Lions scored 34 on the Bears in the 4th quarter this year..Things happen

Now, i think Brady should have been out of the game but that is because of a health thing, not a scoreboard thing.

Have you played organized sports?

[AgentOrange]

I hate it to when an opposing manager or coach complains in those situations. And any time a play is called, I think the players should give it their all. But there is no reason I can think of for why it might be a good idea to be calling bombs and going for it on fourth down and leaving the starting QB in there up by 38.

I will give Gibbs credit. They asked him about it and he said that he had no problem with anything that happened out on the field today or the plays that were called from either side.

He took it like a man.

[Sports Guy]

I hate it too when an opposing manager or coach complains in those situations. And any time a play is called, I think the players should give it their all. But there is no reason I can think of for why it might be a good idea to be calling bombs and going for it on fourth down and leaving the starting QB in there up by 38.

Well if you think about it, going for it doesn't run up the score as much as kicking a FG does.

[Sports Guy]

Have you played organized sports?

Most of my life...

[mweb]

Most of my life...

Ok, just wondering because most who have, would disagree with you.

[mweb]

Well if you think about it, going for it doesn't run up the score as much as kicking a FG does.

It does when your chances of getting it are quite high.

[geschinger]

Well if you think about it, going for it doesn't run up the score as much as kicking a FG does.

I'd of kicked it in that situation but I guess that one could go either way... But WAS was so beat down at that point, it was a forgone conclusion that they'd get it.

But how about the other things... Do you think it'ss a good idea to be calling bombs leaving the starting QB in there up by 38 rather than trying to run some clock?

[Sports Guy]

Ok, just wondering because most who have, would disagree with you.

And I would call them whiners.

I hate it....If you don't want a team to "run up the score", walk off the field and quit...If you don't want to do that, don't get embarrassed. Football is a team game...You are always working on things...You always need to improve on things...If you can work on things when you are up by 40, so be it. That is the other team's fault for being pathetic.

Take your ass whooping like a man and be done with it.

[Sports Guy]

I'd of kicked it in that situation but I guess that one could go either way... But WAS was so beat down at that point, it was a forgone conclusion that they'd get it.

But how about the other things... Do you think it'ss a good idea to be calling bombs leaving the starting QB in there up by 38 rather than trying to run some clock?

I don't think Brady should have been in because he could have gotten hurt(not that i would care..lol).

However, if Belichick wants to work on a long pass play against a decent cornerback, why not?

[Sports Guy]

It does when your chances of getting it are quite high.

The Skins could have stopped them....They still had 11 players on the field.

[AgentOrange]

And I would call them whiners.

I hate it....If you don't want a team to "run up the score", walk off the field and quit...If you don't want to do that, don't get embarrassed. Football is a team game...You are always working on things...You always need to improve on things...If you can work on things when you are up by 40, so be it. That is the other team's fault for being pathetic.

Take your ass whooping like a man and be done with it.

Sure. I suppose you can work on some things. Yet I would wager that if you are beating teams every week like that, you don't really need to work on too much stuff.

There is a thing called sportsmanship. But I suppose sportsmanship don't win you any games...

[beaner]

If the rest of the country wouldn't have grossly overreacted to the camera thing, this wouldn't be happening. Wait until they play the Jets again. He might walk over and slap Mangini after every touchdown.

[mweb]

And I would call them whiners.

I hate it....If you don't want a team to "run up the score", walk off the field and quit...If you don't want to do that, don't get embarrassed. Football is a team game...You are always working on things...You always need to improve on things...If you can work on things when you are up by 40, so be it. That is the other team's fault for being pathetic.

Take your ass whooping like a man and be done with it.

Please, there's nothing the first team needs to work on as a team at that point. That's a situation where the key players should be off the field to avoid a pointless injury, and the backups can work on things in a game, which would help many guys who haven't seen much regular season action.

I don't see what your last comment has to do with this, who's not taking it like a man? The fans?

[mweb]

The Skins could have stopped them....They still had 11 players on the field.

I didn't say they couldn't.

[Sports Guy]

Sure. I suppose you can work on some things. Yet I would wager that if you are beating teams every week like that, you don't really need to work on too much stuff.

There is a thing called sportsmanship. But I suppose sportsmanship don't win you any games...

The Pats aren't showboating...They aren't rubbing it in the face of the Skins...They are going out and playing.

There is a lot poorer sportsmanship in close games every week than we see in blowouts with the Pats.

[mweb]

Sure. I suppose you can work on some things. Yet I would wager that if you are beating teams every week like that, you don't really need to work on too much stuff.

There is a thing called sportsmanship. But I suppose sportsmanship don't win you any games...

It wins you games when you're already up by enough to have the win secure.

[Sports Guy]

Please, there's nothing the first team needs to work on as a team at that point. That's a situation where the key players should be off the field to avoid a pointless injury, and the backups can work on things in a game, which would help many guys who haven't seen much regular season action.

I don't see what your last comment has to do with this, who's not taking it like a man? The fans?

Just talking in general.....

[Sports Guy]

Now, i will say this....The Ravens palyed the Colts a few years ago in Indy...The Colts had the ball with under 2 minutes left in the game...They had the game won...Ravens had no timeouts and Peyton took a few knees and the game ended.

If that situation came up for the Pats, where they can take knees and end the game, i think they should do that.

[beaner]

Coach Smith was a big "don't run up the score" guy. He always said you never know when you might need something from a coach, or in College Hoop terms, when an opponent may be a future teammate. With all of the movement in pro sports, it applies there as well.

[mweb]

I just hope SG and Mackus don't coach any kids teams, don't need our youth influenced by such bad sportsmanship.:D

[Sports Guy]

I just hope SG and Mackus don't coach any kids teams, don't need our youth influenced by such bad sportsmanship.:D

Well i certainly don't want to teach kids that they should stop giving 100% at all times.

[mweb]

Now, i will say this....The Ravens palyed the Colts a few years ago in Indy...The Colts had the ball with under 2 minutes left in the game...They had the game won...Ravens had no timeouts and Peyton took a few knees and the game ended.

If that situation came up for the Pats, where they can take knees and end the game, i think they should do that.

What's the difference? The game is won in both situations.

And I'm not saying that the Pats should have taken a knee with 8 or so minutes left, just put the backups in and run the ball on most plays.

[geschinger]

Now, i will say this....The Ravens palyed the Colts a few years ago in Indy...The Colts had the ball with under 2 minutes left in the game...They had the game won...Ravens had no timeouts and Peyton took a few knees and the game ended.

If that situation came up for the Pats, where they can take knees and end the game, i think they should do that.

Compare the two approaches today... At the same point in the game when the Patriots are up 38 and throwing deep and doing everything they can to score more points the Colts are up 24 and Jim Sorgi is in the game leading an 11 play drive consisting of 10 runs.

[mweb]

Well i certainly don't want to teach kids that they should stop giving 100% at all times.

If you've read what I've wrote, and come away with the impression that players shouldn't give it 100% regardless of score, then I don't want you teaching kids reading comprehension either.:D

[Sports Guy]

Compare the two approaches today... At the same point in the game when the Patriots are up 38 and throwing deep and doing everything they can to score more points the Colts are up 24 and Jim Sorgi is in the game leading an 11 play drive consisting of 10 runs.

Well, i do think the spygate stuff has pissed off Belichick and it adds some incentive to this.

Look, it is stupid for Belichick to have Brady in the game...It is part of the arrogance of the team.

That being said, i don't care that they do it.

[bryanman8]

That being said, i don't care that they do it.
We'll see if you feel the same way after week 13.

Did Gibbs snub Belijerk at the end of the game? Camera cut away and it was hard to tell. I sure hope he did.

I have no problem with a certain level of it. I have no problem with not kicking a field goal from the 7 and think running it is even better sportsmanship than kicking a FG.

When it becomes a problem is when you're up 45 on the Skins' 35 and should be punting the ball on 4th and 2 and decide to run a crossing route for 20 yards.

He's an @$$hole and a heinous bastard. I'd still pay him $15 million a year to be my coach. But he's an idiot and the league hates him for a reason.

[BaltimoreTerp]

My buddy had this as his away message but it echos my sentiments exactly (and I said something along these lines to my friend while watching the game):

"If I'm coaching one of these teams getting killed by the Patriots, here's what I do when I'm down five TDs and Brady is still in the game. I blitz at least 7 guys, maybe 8 or 9 every play. I make it a point to hit Brady and knock him down. If it's a 15-yard penalty, I don't care. I do it again. And again, until either he gets injured or Belichick takes him out. Dirty? Maybe. But how is that any dirtier than running up the score every game? You want to do that against my team, you'll be taking a major risk."

I firmly believe that one should be allowed to run up the score, as long as they are willing to accept the consequences, such as horse-collar-tackling Brady ten seconds after the play when he isn't watching, or defensive linemen cut-blocking the blockers, or helmet spearing Randy Moss after he is already out-of-bounds.

If you are willing to give up sportsmanship, then so am I.

And yes SG, having your starting quarterback in the lineup with ten minutes left when you are up by five-and-a-half touchdowns is running up the score.

What I can't wait for is this (from the Other Sports Guy (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/071026&sportCat=nfl))...


6. During the Jets-Pats game in Week 15, after the Pats win by a 77-3 margin, Belichick sucker-punches Mangini in the postgame handshake, followed by a 200-person brawl that leaves two dead and 45 others injured. The funny thing? This falls under the "somewhat realistic" guidelines. That's why I'm flying back for this game.

[twoBshorty]

He's an @$$hole and a heinous bastard. I'd still pay him $15 million a year to be my coach. But he's an idiot and the league hates him for a reason.

OK, seriously, this is ridiculous. Please climb down off your horse. Belichick is not an idiot, and you know that perfectly well. Saying otherwise reeks of immature pettiness and sour grapes. If you want to insult him, go right ahead, but don't say something so obviously wrong; it doesn't help you make your point.

Also, phrases like "heinous bastard" are usually better reserved for carjackers and rapists.

[bryanman8]

OK, seriously, this is ridiculous. Please climb down off your horse. Belichick is not an idiot, and you know that perfectly well. Saying otherwise reeks of immature pettiness and sour grapes. If you want to insult him, go right ahead, but don't say something so obviously wrong; it doesn't help you make your point.

Also, phrases like "heinous bastard" are usually better reserved for carjackers and rapists.
Genius of a coach, a**hole of a person.

He has run up the score in every game possible this season, no matter who he's played against. He has a complete disregard for good sportsmanship. He's a cheater and always has been.

Good for him. Seriously, if I was a Pats fan, I'd probably be thrilled too and I'd love to have the man as the Skins coach. There's no denying though that he's a complete twit and Tom Brady deserves to get leveled because of him.

Whatever. They can do what they want and nothing will change. Just saying, your coach is a jerk.

[Sports Guy]

OK, seriously, this is ridiculous. Please climb down off your horse. Belichick is not an idiot, and you know that perfectly well. Saying otherwise reeks of immature pettiness and sour grapes. If you want to insult him, go right ahead, but don't say something so obviously wrong; it doesn't help you make your point.

Also, phrases like "heinous bastard" are usually better reserved for carjackers and rapists.

Bryan didn't complain before...But his Redskins just got b!tched, so now he is crying about it.

This is what i was talking about before.

[twoBshorty]

Genius of a coach, a**hole of a person.

He has run up the score in every game possible this season, no matter who he's played against. He has a complete disregard for good sportsmanship. He's a cheater and always has been.

Good for him. Seriously, if I was a Pats fan, I'd probably be thrilled too and I'd love to have the man as the Skins coach. There's no denying though that he's a complete twit and Tom Brady deserves to get leveled because of him.

Whatever. They can do what they want and nothing will change. Just saying, your coach is a jerk.

I didn't disagree that he was a jerk. Just pointing out that he's not an idiot, and saying otherwise is, well, idiotic.

[mweb]

Bryan didn't complain before...But his Redskins just got b!tched, so now he is crying about it.

This is what i was talking about before.

Obviously people are going to care a lot more when it happens to their team. I think it's wrong regardless, but won't care that much when it happens to the Dolphins or whoever.

[Sports Guy]

Obviously people are going to care a lot more when it happens to their team. I think it's wrong regardless, but won't care that much when it happens to the Dolphins or whoever.

Yea I know but if you feel that strongly against someone, it could have come out before now...At least be consistent about it.

[ledzepp8]

Bill Belichick is a classless piece of garbage. I hate the Redskins with every fiber of my being, but going for it on 4th & 1 while up 38-0 exhibits zero class. As far as I'm concerned, the Pats' coach is one level above what I deposited in my toilet 20 minutes ago.

Yeah I agree, I'm getting tired of seeing the Patriots running the score up weekly. They were up 45-0 with like 8 minutes left in the game and still throwing the ball. It's getting ridiculous.:rolleyes:

[bryanman8]

Bryan didn't complain before...But his Redskins just got b!tched, so now he is crying about it.

This is what i was talking about before.
Always easy to talk when you're on a bye week!

Again, talk to me after week 13 when the Ravens get completely b!tch-SLAPPED by the Pats and we'll see if you still feel the same way about their complete disregard for good sportsmanship and absolute humiliation of a Pro-Bowl coach.

And I don't know what you were talking about before, nor do I really care. All that I know is that the Skins are still better than the Ravens and just got their asses kicked by the Pats while the Pats' backup QB went insane and spiked the ball and all this crap after scoring a TD to put them up 52-7. Of course when you're not watching by then and don't give a crap about the team they're showing up you're fine.

If it was the Ravens though, I know you, SG. You'd be having a cow that the Pats just went for it on 4th and 2 at your 35 and PASSED while UP 45 and then danced around like they just won the Super Bowl after some backup QB dove for the endzone to put them up 52.

I was having a lot of fun with the Pats too while my fantasy team was just rolling and believe me, I appreciate the genius that is Bill Belichick. Otherwise, I wouldn't have SIX of his players on my fantasy team and predicted them to go 16-0 before the season started.

It is UNDENIABLE though that he is a complete classless jerk and the Patriots are the most classless team in the league because of him.

Again, we'll talk after week 13.

[bryanman8]

I didn't disagree that he was a jerk. Just pointing out that he's not an idiot, and saying otherwise is, well, idiotic.
You know what I meant. Obviously he's not a football idiot. He's an idiot/jerk of a person though and is garbage.

[Sports Guy]

Always easy to talk when you're on a bye week!

Again, talk to me after week 13 when the Ravens get completely b!tch-SLAPPED by the Pats and we'll see if you still feel the same way about their complete disregard for good sportsmanship and absolute humiliation of a Pro-Bowl coach.

And I don't know what you were talking about before, nor do I really care. All that I know is that the Skins are still better than the Ravens and just got their asses kicked by the Pats while the Pats' backup QB went insane and spiked the ball and all this crap after scoring a TD to put them up 52-7. Of course when you're not watching by then and don't give a crap about the team they're showing up you're fine.

If it was the Ravens though, I know you, SG. You'd be having a cow that the Pats just went for it on 4th and 2 at your 35 and PASSED while UP 45 and then danced around like they just won the Super Bowl after some backup QB dove for the endzone to put them up 52.

I was having a lot of fun with the Pats too while my fantasy team was just rolling and believe me, I appreciate the genius that is Bill Belichick. Otherwise, I wouldn't have SIX of his players on my fantasy team and predicted them to go 16-0 before the season started.

It is UNDENIABLE though that he is a complete classless jerk and the Patriots are the most classless team in the league because of him.

Again, we'll talk after week 13.

No I wouldn't...If my team is as pathetic as you guys were today, they deserve everything they get.

[bryanman8]

No I wouldn't...If my team is as pathetic as you guys were today, they deserve everything they get.
Shut. Up.

I'm not saying we didn't suck. I'm not saying we don't deserve to be screamed at like crazy and Clinton Portis should be gone after this season and Al Saunders called an incompetent offense and Jason Campbell played like crap and the defense couldn't do anything with one cornerback and Gregg Williams out-thunk himself which proved for horrible results...we played like complete crap and it was humiliating.

However, there's ways for that still to be the message when you lose 38-7 or whatever.

It's called RUNNING UP THE SCORE and it's GARBAGE. We played like crap. The Pats coached like complete @$$holes and made me want to sucker-punch Tom Brady. You just DON'T DO THAT. It's called CLASS.

Not like we really gave a crap down 45-0 anyway. We knew they whooped us good. To still go out there with a 45-0 lead and go for it and pass and then spike the ball after a touchdown is bush league bullcrap.

Again, talk to me after you've played them. Because obviously you have no idea what CLASS in football is and no idea how it feels to watch your team suffer through that classless crap.

[Sports Guy]

Someone is up past their bedtime i am thinking.

[Sports Guy]

Shut. Up.

I'm not saying we didn't suck. I'm not saying we don't deserve to be screamed at like crazy and Clinton Portis should be gone after this season and Al Saunders called an incompetent offense and Jason Campbell played like crap and the defense couldn't do anything with one cornerback and Gregg Williams out-thunk himself which proved for horrible results...we played like complete crap and it was humiliating.

However, there's ways for that still to be the message when you lose 38-7 or whatever.

It's called RUNNING UP THE SCORE and it's GARBAGE. We played like crap. The Pats coached like complete @$$holes and made me want to sucker-punch Tom Brady. You just DON'T DO THAT. It's called CLASS.

Not like we really gave a crap down 45-0 anyway. We knew they whooped us good. To still go out there with a 45-0 lead and go for it and pass and then spike the ball after a touchdown is bush league bullcrap.

Again, talk to me after you've played them. Because obviously you have no idea what CLASS in football is and no idea how it feels to watch your team suffer through that classless crap.
Yea, you are right, I don't...My team doesn't get embarrassed like this. LOL

[bryanman8]

Someone is up past their bedtime i am thinking.
Good one. Out of bullcrap Redskins-bashing to try and go away from what I'm actually saying; none of which pertains to how bad the Skins were today, all of which pertains to how classless Belichick and the Pats are?

Really, how original! I've never heard that ol' bedtime diss from someone who knows they're wrong before. Really clever.

[ledzepp8]

And I would call them whiners.

I hate it....If you don't want a team to "run up the score", walk off the field and quit...If you don't want to do that, don't get embarrassed. Football is a team game...You are always working on things...You always need to improve on things...If you can work on things when you are up by 40, so be it. That is the other team's fault for being pathetic.

Take your ass whooping like a man and be done with it.

No one is saying that you can't rout another team or there should be a slaughter rule or something. But when you're up 45-0 with 8 minutes to go into the game there's no reason to be throwing the ball unless you're trying to score more. I think it was last week where they ran the ball in for a TD with something like 19 seconds left and the game clearly a rout. They are blatantly running the score up and pretty soon they're going to piss the wrong team off. And didn't they take Brady out of a game where they were up like 42-7 and then put him back in when it was 42-21?

[twoBshorty]

Yea, you are right, I don't...My team doesn't get embarrassed like this. LOL

Um, you haven't played NE or Indy yet. Maybe you should wait on this.

[Sports Guy]

No one is saying that you can't rout another team or there should be a slaughter rule or something. But when you're up 45-0 with 8 minutes to go into the game there's no reason to be throwing the ball unless you're trying to score more. I think it was last week where they ran the ball in for a TD with something like 19 seconds left and the game clearly a rout. They are blatantly running the score up and pretty soon they're going to piss the wrong team off. And didn't they take Brady out of a game where they were up like 42-7 and then put him back in when it was 42-21?
But so what?

Who cares?

This is what i am talking about...What difference does it make?

There is another team on the field...They are allowed to stop the other team. These guys are professionals...They are the best in the world at what they do. STOP THEM!

Hit them hard...Make them pay for leaving the starters on the field.

If you aren't going to do that, then you mine as well put your tail between your legs and walk off the field.

[bryanman8]

Yea, you are right, I don't...My team doesn't get embarrassed like this. LOL
LOL! That would be because you haven't played the Pats since 2004, when you lost 24-3.

Seriously, did you even watch the game today, or do you just enjoy being an asshole? Do you have any idea exactly what the Pats did? Did you see them go for it on 4th and 2 from the 35 up 45-0, and throw the ball? Did you see Tom Brady still in with them up 38-0? Did you see Matt Cassell spike the ball after scoring a TD to put them up 52-0?

How does it feel to already have as many losses as last year, btw?

How's it gonna feel coming in 3rd in your own division behind the Browns, btw?

Seriously, I cannot wait until week 13. You are going to get absolutely destroyed, and we'll see if you're still a big fan of Bill the person.

[Sports Guy]

Um, you haven't played NE or Indy yet. Maybe you should wait on this.

And if we do and they score 40 on us, so be it...I am not going to come on here and cry about it.

And you better believe if the Ravens think they are trying to run up the score, that they will be hitting them hard and making them pay for it.

Its like in baseball...If a runner steals when his team is up 7, fine..So be it.

The next hitter gets one near his head....Maybe it makes you think twice about it.

Football has the unique aspect when you are allowed to beat the hell out of the other player and it be legal.

[Sports Guy]

LOL! That would be because you haven't played the Pats since 2004, when you lost 24-3.

Seriously, did you even watch the game today, or do you just enjoy being an asshole? Do you have any idea exactly what the Pats did? Did you see them go for it on 4th and 2 from the 35 up 45-0, and throw the ball? Did you see Tom Brady still in with them up 38-0? Did you see Matt Cassell spike the ball after scoring a TD to put them up 52-0?

How does it feel to already have as many losses as last year, btw?

How's it gonna feel coming in 3rd in your own division behind the Browns, btw?

Seriously, I cannot wait until week 13. You are going to get absolutely destroyed, and we'll see if you're still a big fan of Bill the person.
God i hope you get banned...What a joke of a person you are.

And yes i watched the game...It was pretty funny to watch. I really enjoyed the Welker TD at the end cause i needed it for fantasy football.

BTW, thank you for stating my case for me about how people overeact about this stuff...Pretty funny how even your fellow Redskins fans aren't backing you up because they see you for the joke you are.

As far as Belichick the person...I already commented on his arrogance.

[bryanman8]

Football has the unique aspect when you are allowed to beat the hell out of the other player and it be legal.
You're delusional. Good luck with that.

Only way to touch Tom Brady is to blitz 8 guys and he'll have the ball out of his hands within half a second.

I've seen plenty of big leads in football. I saw us beat the 49ers 52-17 in 2005. And in that game I saw us play with class the whole time; run the ball when the game was clearly over, take our starters out, punt the ball, don't go for it, don't dance around and spike the ball when you go up 52-0. There are ways to take it to the other team and illustrate your manliness that you seem to be so obsessed with without disgracing the game.

What the Patriots did was disgraceful to the game.

[bernie132000]

And if we do and they score 40 on us, so be it...I am not going to come on here and cry about it.

And you better believe if the Ravens think they are trying to run up the score, that they will be hitting them hard and making them pay for it.

Its like in baseball...If a runner steals when his team is up 7, fine..So be it.

The next hitter gets one near his head....Maybe it makes you think twice about it.
Football has the unique aspect when you are allowed to beat the hell out of the other player and it be legal.

I've been in a game where this happened. A team bunted for a hit up 12 in the last inning. We proceded to hit the next guy in the back. Their team started yelling so we yelled back. Nothing good happens when you exhibit bad sportsmanship. It only escalates into a fight. I really am not regretting the actions of my teammates because I was pissed and would have done the same thing. The fact that you agree shows that you see that there is something wrong with bad sportsmanship.

[mweb]

And if we do and they score 40 on us, so be it...I am not going to come on here and cry about it.

And you better believe if the Ravens think they are trying to run up the score, that they will be hitting them hard and making them pay for it.

Its like in baseball...If a runner steals when his team is up 7, fine..So be it.

The next hitter gets one near his head....Maybe it makes you think twice about it.

Football has the unique aspect when you are allowed to beat the hell out of the other player and it be legal.

All this is basically saying what the Pats did was screwed up and they should pay for it. So you want there to be bad sportsmanship on one side so the other side returns the favor? Is that the way it should go, or should there just not be any problems to begin with? I'll choose the latter.

[ledzepp8]

Yea, you are right, I don't...My team doesn't get embarrassed like this. LOL

It wasn't embarassing to lose to the Bills and the Browns?

[mweb]

It wasn't embarassing to lose to the Bills and the Browns?

He's already blocked that out of his mind, he thinks the Ravens make the playoffs every year and are consistent super bowl contenders, well at least that's the impression I get based on how he posts.:D

[ledzepp8]

But so what?

Who cares?

This is what i am talking about...What difference does it make?

There is another team on the field...They are allowed to stop the other team. These guys are professionals...They are the best in the world at what they do. STOP THEM!

Hit them hard...Make them pay for leaving the starters on the field.

If you aren't going to do that, then you mine as well put your tail between your legs and walk off the field.

I guess it really doesn't make a difference, but it's about respect. There's unwritten rules about not running the score up in sports. It's like if I beat the crap out of you and then continued to kick you while you were on the ground...there's no need for it because I've already won the fight.

[geschinger]

Its like in baseball...If a runner steals when his team is up 7, fine..So be it.

The next hitter gets one near his head....Maybe it makes you think twice about it.

Football has the unique aspect when you are allowed to beat the hell out of the other player and it be legal.

What's more likely to happen at some point - and it won't be good for anyone - is some player is going to take exception and go Charles Martin on Brady.

[BaltimoreTerp]

God i hope you get banned...What a joke of a person you are.

And yes i watched the game...It was pretty funny to watch. I really enjoyed the Welker TD at the end cause i needed it for fantasy football.

BTW, thank you for stating my case for me about how people overeact about this stuff...Pretty funny how even your fellow Redskins fans aren't backing you up because they see you for the joke you are.

As far as Belichick the person...I already commented on his arrogance.

Dude, back off.

[mweb]

I've been in a game where this happened. A team bunted for a hit up 12 in the last inning. We proceded to hit the next guy in the back. Their team started yelling so we yelled back. Nothing good happens when you exhibit bad sportsmanship. It only escalates into a fight. I really am not regretting the actions of my teammates because I was pissed and would have done the same thing. The fact that you agree shows that you see that there is something wrong with bad sportsmanship.

Exactly.....

[mweb]

I guess it really doesn't make a difference, but it's about respect. There's unwritten rules about not running the score up in sports. It's like if I beat the crap out of you and then continued to kick you while you were on the ground...there's no need for it because I've already won the fight.

Come on now, you lost me when you said you beat the crap out of SG. You can't beat up SG!;) :D

[Sports Guy]

It wasn't embarassing to lose to the Bills and the Browns?

We didn't lose by 3000 points though.

And the Browns and Bills losses aren't looking as bad right now.

[bryanman8]

God i hope you get banned...What a joke of a person you are.

And yes i watched the game...It was pretty funny to watch. I really enjoyed the Welker TD at the end cause i needed it for fantasy football.

BTW, thank you for stating my case for me about how people overeact about this stuff...Pretty funny how even your fellow Redskins fans aren't backing you up because they see you for the joke you are.

As far as Belichick the person...I already commented on his arrogance.
SG, you're really hilarious. I'm the "joke of a person?" Do you realize your entire shtick is just for the sake of instigating and pissing off others? You're just rubbing it in our faces. I f***ing know what an awful game it was. I saw it. I don't need you to tell me anything about how much we deserved it and how it was "funny" to you and your fantasy football lines that obviously crack yourself up.

The joke I am? I don't give a crap who's supporting me and the imaginary gang you think you have on your side. Basically, you admit that Belichick is an arrogant @$$ and that what he did was completely classless, but you're basically advocating that the Skins punched Brady in the head after a play was over as a way of "getting them back." Joe Gibbs represents class. We played awful today and deserved to get killed and for the most part couldn't touch Brady at all. So, obviously, we could not have legally done anything to harm Brady nor would we want to, because that's not the way we play. That's not the way to solve problems, either, and I really doubt that would have worked out much better for us.

The Pats were absolutely classless and you know it. You just live to instigate though and this is your field day. Hope you've enjoyed it. I'll be watching week 13 intently and enjoying when you lose 60-0 and Ray Lewis gets body-slammed by Adailus Thomas in the process of trying to throw a cheapshot at Tom Brady while he's walking around on the sidelines after the Pats finally took him out after he rushed for another TD and then spiked the ball to put them up 52-0 on 4th-and-five with a minute left.

[Sports Guy]

I guess it really doesn't make a difference, but it's about respect. There's unwritten rules about not running the score up in sports. It's like if I beat the crap out of you and then continued to kick you while you were on the ground...there's no need for it because I've already won the fight.

Did Gibbs or the Redskins players say it was a lack of respect?

[BaltimoreTerp]

And if we do and they score 40 on us, so be it...I am not going to come on here and cry about it.

And you better believe if the Ravens think they are trying to run up the score, that they will be hitting them hard and making them pay for it.

Its like in baseball...If a runner steals when his team is up 7, fine..So be it.

The next hitter gets one near his head....Maybe it makes you think twice about it.

Football has the unique aspect when you are allowed to beat the hell out of the other player and it be legal.

If the Patriots are running up the score on the Ravens, it will be because the Ravens AREN'T making them pay for it.

Now, you are partially right in that as long as the Patriots are willing to accept the consequences they should be able to do what they want in running up the score. However, that does NOT make it right.

The fact that you are talking about retaliation shows that you already know that, so I really don't know why you are arguing that point, especially to the level of being a jackhole.

[Sports Guy]

SG, you're really hilarious. I'm the "joke of a person?" Do you realize your entire shtick is just for the sake of instigating and pissing off others? You're just rubbing it in our faces. I f***ing know what an awful game it was. I saw it. I don't need you to tell me anything about how much we deserved it and how it was "funny" to you and your fantasy football lines that obviously crack yourself up.

The joke I am? I don't give a crap who's supporting me and the imaginary gang you think you have on your side. Basically, you admit that Belichick is an arrogant @$$ and that what he did was completely classless, but you're basically advocating that the Skins punched Brady in the head after a play was over as a way of "getting them back." Joe Gibbs represents class. We played awful today and deserved to get killed and for the most part couldn't touch Brady at all. So, obviously, we could not have legally done anything to harm Brady nor would we want to, because that's not the way we play. That's not the way to solve problems, either, and I really doubt that would have worked out much better for us.

The Pats were absolutely classless and you know it. You just live to instigate though and this is your field day. Hope you've enjoyed it. I'll be watching week 13 intently and enjoying when you lose 60-0 and Ray Lewis gets body-slammed by Adailus Thomas in the process of trying to throw a cheapshot at Tom Brady while he's walking around on the sidelines after the Pats finally took him out after he rushed for another TD and then spiked the ball to put them up 52-0 on 4th-and-five with a minute left.
No I didn't...I have clearly stated that i don't believe there is such thing as running up the score.

I think there are instances where a team shouldn't have their starters on the field or they should be running instead of throwing but again, until the other team says, we are going to stop trying, i don't see why the other team has to as well.

[BaltimoreTerp]

What's more likely to happen at some point - and it won't be good for anyone - is some player is going to take exception and go Charles Martin on Brady.

At first, I thought you meant Charles MANSON, but then I looked it up (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martin_%28football_player%29)...


Martin was most (in)famous for proudly displaying a handtowel in pregame warmups with the numbers of Chicago Bears stars listed on it, and allegedly claimed it was a "hit list" for the game. Martin was allowed to wear the towel in the game, and after a Jim McMahon interception he sauntered over to the quarterback from behind, grabbed McMahon and body slammed him into the rock-hard artificial turf. Martin hovered over McMahon and taunted the fallen quarterback until being pushed away by Bears offensive tackle Jimbo Covert. Pandemonium ensued as the play was one of the most blatantly illegal in NFL history. For his actions, Martin was suspended for two games, the longest suspension for an on-field incident until Albert Haynesworth of the Tennessee Titans was suspended for five games for stomping on the head of Dallas Cowboys center Andre Gurode on October 1, 2006.

Dude...




...I got ten bucks on T-Sizzle being the one to do this :D

[mweb]

We didn't lose by 3000 points though.

And the Browns and Bills losses aren't looking as bad right now.

Your right, the Bills beat the mighty Jets, you know that team that would make the playoffs if they were in the NFC.




Praying the Skins beat the Jets next week.:D

Even though that statement will still be horrific either way.

[Sports Guy]

If the Patriots are running up the score on the Ravens, it will be because the Ravens AREN'T making them pay for it.

Now, you are partially right in that as long as the Patriots are willing to accept the consequences they should be able to do what they want in running up the score. However, that does NOT make it right.

The fact that you are talking about retaliation shows that you already know that, so I really don't know why you are arguing that point, especially to the level of being a jackhole.

I am not saying anything wrong....I am not the 3 year old in the middle of a tantrum.

I just don't think running up the score is a big deal. I think the team has a right to work on things, perfect things and keep doing what they always do.

I don't agree with leaving the starters in but that is more of an injury thing.

Should Cassel have just run out of bounds on that last TD or should he have scored?

Why can't the other team do what they need to and just stop them? You know, for you to "run up the score", it means the other teams is playing at a pathetic level.

Where is their pride?

[bryanman8]

No I didn't...I have clearly stated that i don't believe there is such thing as running up the score.

I think there are instances where a team shouldn't have their starters on the field or they should be running instead of throwing but again, until the other team says, we are going to stop trying, i don't see why the other team has to as well.
You don't? Really? So if you're up 45-0, you should keep playing your starters until the team that's losing takes all theirs out? Because, I mean, you can definitely blow that lead and it's not like you're the ones up 45 points with the game already clinched while the other team is already reeling enough and still in a state of shock about how bad they've played.

You should probably keep playing your starters until they just forfeit the rest of the game. Define when the other team says they're going to "stop trying," exactly.

The game was already over and you know it. You're just reaching for crap.

Kick 'em while they're down, of course! Very classy!

Do you believe in being an @$$hole? Do you believe in Matt Cassell spiking the ball on a TD to put them up 45-0? Do you think it's necessary for Tom Brady to whine and complain about every single call when his team is up 45-0? Do you think up 45 on 4th-and-two might be one of those situations where you should either punt or run instead of doing a 20-yard-slant?

It defies logic because we've never seen it before. Belichick just feels so bullied by the NFL or something this is his way of getting back at them and it's disgraceful.

[mweb]

No I didn't...I have clearly stated that i don't believe there is such thing as running up the score.

I think there are instances where a team shouldn't have their starters on the field or they should be running instead of throwing but again, until the other team says, we are going to stop trying, i don't see why the other team has to as well.

If today wasn't one of those instances, what is?:confused:

And while you've said you don't believe in running up the score, some of your comments have basically said that it's screwed up.:confused:

[BaltimoreTerp]

No I didn't...I have clearly stated that i don't believe there is such thing as running up the score.

I think there are instances where a team shouldn't have their starters on the field or they should be running instead of throwing but again, until the other team says, we are going to stop trying, i don't see why the other team has to as well.

But what we are talking about IS running up the score, even by your definition: having the starters in that late up by that much.

You also don't believe that the type of plays being run count (going for fourth downs, passing the ball that late, etc.)?

It's one thing if you have all your subs in, and are just running the ball to run out the clock, and the other team can't stop you. It's another thing completely when you are actively trying to score in order to embarrass your opponent, which is obviously what the Patriots are tyring to do as much as is realistic this year.

[Sports Guy]

You don't? Really? So if you're up 45-0, you should keep playing your starters until the team that's losing takes all theirs out? Because, I mean, you can definitely blow that lead and it's not like you're the ones up 45 points with the game already clinched while the other team is already reeling enough and still in a state of shock about how bad they've played. Have you taken reading class yet? I have clearly stated that the starters shouldn't have been in there...Of course, the backups scored a TD as well.



Do you believe in being an @$$hole?We know you do.
Do you believe in Matt Cassell spiking the ball on a TD to put them up 45-0? Was that Cassell's first career TD?Do
you think it's necessary for Tom Brady to whine and complain about every single call when his team is up 45-0? Yes..It is called intensity...THese are pro athletes...The top ones only know one speed.
Do you think up 45 on 4th-and-two might be one of those situations where you should either punt or run instead of doing a 20-yard-slant?I think just going for it is less of a "running up the score" than kicking some meaningless FG.

Again, why is it that Gibbs doesn't care about this but you all do?

[Sports Guy]

But what we are talking about IS running up the score, even by your definition: having the starters in that late up by that much.

You also don't believe that the type of plays being run count (going for fourth downs, passing the ball that late, etc.)?

It's one thing if you have all your subs in, and are just running the ball to run out the clock, and the other team can't stop you. It's another thing completely when you are actively trying to score in order to embarrass your opponent, which is obviously what the Patriots are tyring to do as much as is realistic this year.

The Lions scored 34 against the Bears in the 4th quarter this year...The game looked to be over.....You never know.

Look at what happened to the Ravens against Cinci a few years ago...Or how we almost blew games this year because we stopped playing.

The Pats are a great team....They have a killer instinct.

You guys are asking these players to do something they just can't do....They don't have different speeds. They play the game a certain way.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I am not saying anything wrong....I am not the 3 year old in the middle of a tantrum.
Actually, you are the three-year-old taunting the other kid in the tantrum.


I just don't think running up the score is a big deal. I think the team has a right to work on things, perfect things and keep doing what they always do.

I don't agree with leaving the starters in but that is more of an injury thing.

Should Cassel have just run out of bounds on that last TD or should he have scored?

Why can't the other team do what they need to and just stop them? You know, for you to "run up the score", it means the other teams is playing at a pathetic level.

Where is their pride?

Where is the Patriots' sportsmanship? They have been a terrible team in the past, and Belicheck has coached some terrible teams in the past.

You ask about Cassel, but maybe you should ask why Brady was in the game to score the touchdown that made it 45-0 with under ten minutes left in the game? Or why they were going for it on fourth downs?

[mweb]

Have you taken reading class yet? I have clearly stated that the starters shouldn't have been in there...Of course, the backups scored a TD as well.


We know you do. Was that Cassell's first career TD?Do Yes..It is called intensity...THese are pro athletes...The top ones only know one speed.I think just going for it is less of a "running up the score" than kicking some meaningless FG.

Again, why is it that Gibbs doesn't care about this but you all do?

That's not true at all. Most guys aren't going to play with the same intensity in a blowout compared to a close game.

And you clearly stated the starters should have been out so they wouldn't get hurt, not due to sportsmanship, so I think his reading is just fine in this case.

[BaltimoreTerp]

The Lions scored 34 against the Bears in the 4th quarter this year...The game looked to be over.....You never know.

38-0 with ten minutes left?

[mweb]

Now, i will say this....The Ravens palyed the Colts a few years ago in Indy...The Colts had the ball with under 2 minutes left in the game...They had the game won...Ravens had no timeouts and Peyton took a few knees and the game ended.

If that situation came up for the Pats, where they can take knees and end the game, i think they should do that.

I'm still wondering why this is so different than the game today? Class should only be shown when the clock can easily be run out? The game was in hand in both situations.

[Sports Guy]

I'm still wondering why this is so different than the game today? Class should only be shown when the clock can easily be run out? The game was in hand in both situations.

Because i don't expect a team, with a lot fo time left, to just knee 3 times and punt it.

[bryanman8]

Have you taken reading class yet? I have clearly stated that the starters shouldn't have been in there...Of course, the backups scored a TD as well.
1. That's another attempt to instigate and "rub it in." Are you Bill Belichick?
2. If you acknowledge that the starters shouldn't have been in there and THEY WERE, can you not see that you're WRONG?


We know you do.
I actually meant this as a sort-of, if you don't believe in "running up the score", do you believe in the other team just flat-out being @$$holes? Of course, you took the opportunity to add another insult because you apparently ran out of age jokes. Nice.


Was that Cassell's first career TD?Do
"Do"?
And what does that have to do anything. If you scored your first TD in a game to put you up 52-0, would you spike the ball?


Yes..It is called intensity...THese are pro athletes...The top ones only know one speed.

BULLLLLLLLSSSSSHHHHHIIIIIIITTTTTT and you know it.


I think just going for it is less of a "running up the score" than kicking some meaningless FG.
It was 4th-and-2 from the 35. A team with class punts the ball. A team with less class runs the ball. A team with no class throws the ball.


Again, why is it that Gibbs doesn't care about this but you all do?
I guarantee Joe Gibbs cared, and I didn't see him shake hands with Belichick and he may have snubbed him.

If he didn't and said all the right things again, it's because Joe Gibbs has class and would never dare disrespect the game by doing anything like that.

[Sports Guy]

38-0 with ten minutes left?

As i said, Brady should have been out so that he couldn't get hurt.

But, as a fan of the game, i don't care that Brady was going for more.

It is why he and the Patriots are great.

[mweb]

The Lions scored 34 against the Bears in the 4th quarter this year...The game looked to be over.....You never know.

Look at what happened to the Ravens against Cinci a few years ago...Or how we almost blew games this year because we stopped playing.

The Pats are a great team....They have a killer instinct.

You guys are asking these players to do something they just can't do....They don't have different speeds. They play the game a certain way.

Everyone knew in this case. And again, the speeds comment is not true, but not the point either, the coaching is the problem here.

[mweb]

As i said, Brady should have been out so that he couldn't get hurt.

But, as a fan of the game, i don't care that Brady was going for more.

It is why he and the Patriots are great.

Going for more with a 38-0 lead with 10 minutes left is why they are great?:confused: That might be better than the Jets comment.

How were they great before they beat teams by such wide margins?

[bryanman8]

As i said, Brady should have been out so that he couldn't get hurt.

But, as a fan of the game, i don't care that Brady was going for more.

It is why he and the Patriots are great.
Completely false.

What they do up 45-0 makes them completely classless and a disgrace to football.

What they do to get up 45-0 is what makes him and the Patriots great.

Their incessant habits of running up the score, spiking the ball after you go up 52-0, going for it on numerous 4th downs and throwing the ball too, and not taking Brady out are what makes me not really care if they go 16-0 because, despite their tremendous talent and coaching, they're by far the most classless team in the league.

[mweb]

Because i don't expect a team, with a lot fo time left, to just knee 3 times and punt it.

Who is saying they should do that?

They should take their starters out, and not just because of injuries, but because of sportsmanship, and they should run the ball the vast majority of plays.

[Sports Guy]

Going for more with a 38-0 lead with 10 minutes left is why they are great?:confused: That might be better than the Jets comment.

How were they great before they beat teams by such wide margins?

They are great because they only go all out. They only have that one speed.

Tom Brady was pissed today, when it was 38-0, that his O-line got a false start penalty near the goal line.

Why? Because he knows that mistakes like that could hurt them when they are playing in more important games and in more important situations.

I like that in my QB.

[Sports Guy]

Who is saying they should do that?

They should take their starters out, and not just because of injuries, but because of sportsmanship, and they should run the ball the vast majority of plays.

I agree the starters should be out....Not sure i agree they should be running the ball on every play.

None of you are complaining about this if it weren't the Redskins.

[square634]

To me the question is did the Redskins have their starters in the game? If the Skins weren't playing their backups, that indicates to me that they were trying to come back and win, so why should the Pats just roll over and stop playing? A team shouldn't stop trying until the other team concedes (puts in their backups), forfeits, or walks off the field.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Look at what happened to the Ravens against Cinci a few years ago...Or how we almost blew games this year because we stopped playing.

So, two touchdowns is the same as five-and-a-half touchdowns?


The Pats are a great team....They have a killer instinct.

You guys are asking these players to do something they just can't do....They don't have different speeds. They play the game a certain way.

Well, then put in the players that play at a lesser speed, AND call plays that slow that speed down even more.

Having Kyle Eckel run the ball for ten minutes, even if he scores a TD, isn't running up the score. Having Brady in the game for an additional TD, then bringing in Cassel and still throwing when up by 45 is running up the score.

[ledzepp8]

We didn't lose by 3000 points though.

And the Browns and Bills losses aren't looking as bad right now.

Only because you have a good defense and you weren't playing the Patriots. Too bad you guys can't score to save your life.

[mweb]

I agree the starters should be out....Not sure i agree they should be running the ball on every play.

None of you are complaining about this if it weren't the Redskins.

Many of the people in this thread aren't Skins fans, so explain that.

You agree the starters should be out for different reasons. I didn't say every play, but for the most part, they should run.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I agree the starters should be out....Not sure i agree they should be running the ball on every play.

None of you are complaining about this if it weren't the Redskins.

I wouldn't be?

[geschinger]

You guys are asking these players to do something they just can't do....They don't have different speeds. They play the game a certain way.

There is nothing wrong w/giving their all on every play. The problem is that in a situation like that is that it should be running plays that are called. The players should give it their all and try to march down the field running the ball and eating clock. Not throwing down the field up by 38.

[Sports Guy]

Only because you have a good defense and you weren't playing the Patriots. Too bad you guys can't score to save your life.

What does this have to do with anything?

[ledzepp8]

Why can't the other team do what they need to and just stop them? You know, for you to "run up the score", it means the other teams is playing at a pathetic level.

Where is their pride?

This is silly. They can't stop them, that's why they are getting blown out. You don't rout a team that is able to stop your offense. Obviously the Redskins couldn't stop them all game...it's not about them not playing hard or not having pride. It's about the Patriots being up 45-0 and still playing offense like it's the opening drive of the game.

[bryanman8]

From Les Carpenter:


If out of nothing but football courtesy, one does not embarrass Joe Gibbs.

And yet late in this 52-7 demolishing of the Redskins on Sunday, the fourth-worst defeat in the franchise's history, the coach with three Super Bowl championships in this century performed the simplest violation football etiquette against the coach with three titles from the previous century:

In a game with the outcome long decided and the ball deep in Washington territory, New England Patriots Coach Bill Belichick told his quarterback Tom Brady to convert a fourth-down play in an attempt to drive the score higher than it already was. It is a tactic called running up the score. And it is rarely done in professional football -- especially to Gibbs, the Redskins coach in his second tour with the team. So when Brady converted and later dove into the end zone for his fifth touchdown of the game, the 68,756 fans at Gillette Stadium roared.

Gibbs glared. After the game, he barely shook Belichick's hand as he raced off the field.

Later, when asked about the play, Belichick stared for a moment.

"What do you want us to do, kick a field goal?" he said.

Then he shrugged.

"It's 38-0," he continued. "It was fourth down. We were just out there playing."

[mweb]

I agree the starters should be out....Not sure i agree they should be running the ball on every play.

None of you are complaining about this if it weren't the Redskins.

And this thread would be long done if you weren't arguing with just about everyone. I wouldn't care to keep on talking about this if there wasn't someone who didn't believe in good sportsmanship on here calling us whiners and making fun of the team.

[Sports Guy]

And this thread would be long done if you weren't arguing with just about everyone. I wouldn't care to keep on talking about this if there wasn't someone who didn't believe in good sportsmanship on here calling us whiners and making fun of the team.

You guys are the ones who keep calling me names, asking me questions or whatever.

I clearly stated my point earlier.

I just don't see it as a big deal.

[BaltimoreTerp]

From Les Carpenter:

God, I hope Bart Scott pours a supertanker full of this stuff (http://www.thegreenhead.com/2007/07/blairs-16-million-reserve-worlds-hottest-hot-sauce.php) on Tom Brady's leg.

[bryanman8]

You guys are the ones who keep calling me names, asking me questions or whatever.
You're hilarious. You really are.

It's especially funny when you start the name-calling and insults and attempt to be a jack@$$ to every Skins fan on the forum and everyone who doesn't agree with you and then pretend that you're the victim and that you never did anything wrong.

You whine far more than we do. "Waaaaah, you guys keep calling me names, asking me questions or whatever!"

[ledzepp8]

The Lions scored 34 against the Bears in the 4th quarter this year...The game looked to be over.....You never know.

This isn't even close to being the same thing. That game was only 13-3 entering the 4th quarter. The Bears scored 14 points in the 4th and the Lions scored 34. That was two teams still playing a tight game not one team who was already up big, padding their stats and running up the score.

[Sports Guy]

You're hilarious. You really are.

It's especially funny when you start the name-calling and insults and attempt to be a jack@$$ to every Skins fan on the forum and everyone who doesn't agree with you and then pretend that you're the victim and that you never did anything wrong.

You whine far more than we do. "Waaaaah, you guys keep calling me names, asking me questions or whatever!"

I didn't call anyone a name and you guys are crying about it because it was your team.

Bryan...Why didn't you have a psot about this last week?

Similar situations....Obviously you should have felt he was classless last week as well....So, why not complain then?

Where is the consistency?

[square634]

So, two touchdowns is the same as five-and-a-half touchdowns?



Well, then put in the players that play at a lesser speed, AND call plays that slow that speed down even more.

Having Kyle Eckel run the ball for ten minutes, even if he scores a TD, isn't running up the score. Having Brady in the game for an additional TD, then bringing in Cassel and still throwing when up by 45 is running up the score.

Why should the onus be put on the Patriots? If the Redskins wanted to quit, why didn't they put in their reserves? And if the Redskins hadn't quit, i.e. still had their first team out there, why should the Pats have quit? (I didn't watch the game, so if the Skins did put in reserves, I side with the Skins fans).

[geschinger]

The one thing w/Gibbs is that he really wouldn't be the best person to complain about running up the score. He is wise to keep his real thoughts (if they differ from what he diplomatically said in the press conference) quiet.

I saw a posting referencing a Skins win from 1991 - ironically the game in which Brett Favre threw his first pass. Up big in the 4th quarter Gibbs had Rypien throwing bombs of 60 and 80+ yards late in a 49-17 win.

[mweb]

You guys are the ones who keep calling me names, asking me questions or whatever.

I clearly stated my point earlier.

I just don't see it as a big deal.

If you say so.

But again, if an outrageous opinion wasn't presented into this thread, it would be over.

[ledzepp8]

What does this have to do with anything?

You were trying to rationalize you're embarassing losses to the Bills and Browns by saying at least you didn't lose by a lot. I said that was mostly because you have a good defense and it's too bad your team can't score to save it's life.

[geschinger]

Why should the onus be put on the Patriots? If the Redskins wanted to quit, why didn't they put in their reserves? And if the Redskins hadn't quit, i.e. still had their first team out there, why should the Pats have quit? (I didn't watch the game, so if the Skins did put in reserves, I side with the Skins fans).

Noone is saying the Pats had to quit. The most prudent action in that situation would be to run the ball and eat up clock. Knock out some first downs and end the game.

[bryanman8]

I didn't call anyone a name and you guys are crying about it because it was your team.

Bryan...Why didn't you have a psot about this last week?

Similar situations....Obviously you should have felt he was classless last week as well....So, why not complain then?

Where is the consistency?
You called me a 3-year-old and said it was past my bedtime. What's that about, you angel?

I didn't have a post about it last week because I had never watched the Pats play in entirety this season and was only enjoying it because my fantasy team was 6-1 and I was loving the production and I obsess over what a great coach Belichick is and it bewilders me that they have this like 30-year-old offensive coordinator who stands on the field and didn't have any football experience in the pros I don't believe and yet they pick everybody apart and their offense is just flawless. I appreciate that.

What I don't appreciate is, after watching them play in their entirety and completely disgrace and disrespect Joe Gibbs, how blatantly they run up the score and have a complete disregard for class.

I had heard whispers obviously that they had run up scores but overlooked it and downplayed it earlier since I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

Now that I've seen it myself, I buy it completely. Bill Belichick is an @$$hole.

Belichick has always been classless. From when he didn't allow Mangini to go to the Jets and threw a b!tch-fit when he did, to when he paraded with no class and pissed LT off after the playoffs last year, to when he's been videotaping teams and screwing up headset signals for the past few years, to his complete disregard for the common courtesy of not running up the score that every team in football abides by except for him.

I always knew Belichick was a jerk. It really just takes seeing it with your own eyes from your own perspective to make you pissed off about it and realize how disgusting it is. You don't do that to Joe Gibbs.

Which is why I really hope you get a chance to experience it in week 13 and then we'll see how you still feel about it.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Why should the onus be put on the Patriots? If the Redskins wanted to quit, why didn't they put in their reserves? And if the Redskins hadn't quit, i.e. still had their first team out there, why should the Pats have quit? (I didn't watch the game, so if the Skins did put in reserves, I side with the Skins fans).

Because anybody that isn't a jerk (meaning, everyone but Bill Belicheck) knows that it is just this side of physically impossible to come back from that far with that little time left.

And, if the Redskins were to start a comeback, you bring your starters back in and start running real plays again. I mean, if these guys are professional football players that only know one way to play (as SOMEONE else said) then they should have no problem coming right back in and aborting the attempted comeback.

[Sports Guy]

If you say so.

But again, if an outrageous opinion wasn't presented into this thread, it would be over.

Oh ok...Next time i will have to remember my audience and agree with everything you guys say. :rolleyes:

[mweb]

I didn't call anyone a name and you guys are crying about it because it was your team.

Bryan...Why didn't you have a psot about this last week?

Similar situations....Obviously you should have felt he was classless last week as well....So, why not complain then?

Where is the consistency?

Am I crying? No, I'm arguing a point, big difference. And once again, there's plenty of non-Skins fans saying the same thing, in fact a Ravens fan brought this up, ask him about the consistency. If someone made a big deal about this last week, I would have agreed with him.

[Sports Guy]

You called me a 3-year-old and said it was past my bedtime. What's that about, you angel?

I didn't have a post about it last week because I had never watched the Pats play in entirety this season and was only enjoying it because my fantasy team was 6-1 and I was loving the production and I obsess over what a great coach Belichick is and it bewilders me that they have this like 30-year-old offensive coordinator who stands on the field and didn't have any football experience in the pros I don't believe and yet they pick everybody apart and their offense is just flawless. I appreciate that.

What I don't appreciate is, after watching them play in their entirety and completely disgrace and disrespect Joe Gibbs, how blatantly they run up the score and have a complete disregard for class.

I had heard whispers obviously that they had run up scores but overlooked it and downplayed it earlier since I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

Now that I've seen it myself, I buy it completely. Bill Belichick is an @$$hole.

Belichick has always been classless. From when he didn't allow Mangini to go to the Jets and threw a b!tch-fit when he did, to when he paraded with no class and pissed LT off after the playoffs last year, to when he's been videotaping teams and screwing up headset signals for the past few years, to his complete disregard for the common courtesy of not running up the score that every team in football abides by except for him.

I always knew Belichick was a jerk. It really just takes seeing it with your own eyes from your own perspective to make you pissed off about it and realize how disgusting it is. You don't do that to Joe Gibbs.

Which is why I really hope you get a chance to experience it in week 13 and then we'll see how you still feel about it.
That's how you were acting Bryan.

[Sports Guy]

The one thing w/Gibbs is that he really wouldn't be the best person to complain about running up the score. He is wise to keep his real thoughts (if they differ from what he diplomatically said in the press conference) quiet.

I saw a posting referencing a Skins win from 1991 - ironically the game in which Brett Favre threw his first pass. Up big in the 4th quarter Gibbs had Rypien throwing bombs of 60 and 80+ yards late in a 49-17 win.

Can't wait to see the response on this.

[ledzepp8]

I didn't call anyone a name and you guys are crying about it because it was your team.

Bryan...Why didn't you have a psot about this last week?

Similar situations....Obviously you should have felt he was classless last week as well....So, why not complain then?

Where is the consistency?

Well maybe he didn't say anything because it hadn't affected him personally.

I said something about it...I think others did as well. They ran the score up last week, they ran it up against the Cowboys, etc.

[mweb]

Oh ok...Next time i will have to remember my audience and agree with everything you guys say. :rolleyes:

Not asking you to, but your opinion is out there, and you act like we're making too big of a deal about this and whining too much, but the only reason why we're still talking about it is because of your comments that many on here feel are absurd.

[square634]

Noone is saying the Pats had to quit. The most prudent action in that situation would be to run the ball and eat up clock. Knock out some first downs and end the game.

I don't know, I feel like as long as the Skins have their first team out there and are trying to win, the Pats can do whatever they want. If you're Gibbs and you don't want them to be passing and going for touchdowns, put in your backups as a signal that you have essentially conceded. If, at that point, the Pats kept their first team in, then they were definitely being unsportsmanlike.

Think of how many times the Orioles have stopped trying in the late innings, and then had something like Mother's Day Massacre happen. Yeah, maybe someone would get pissed off if the Orioles stole a base to get a 6th or 7th insurance run, but at least they wouldn't end up losing the game. Better to violate the "unwritten rules" and win than to be careless/negligent and lose. I know that it is different in football because in baseball there is no clock, but I think the same principle applies.

[mweb]

Can't wait to see the response on this.

If that's what happened, then it's also screwed up. Not sure why you were so anxious.

[bryanman8]

That's how you were acting Bryan.
Not really. It was just a cheap-shot at my age and whatever illusions you have about you being such a sweetheart and never saying anything bad are laughable. You're worse than me.

And remember, the only ones who appear to be siding with you is someone who admittedly didn't watch the game and doesn't seem to understand that the team up 38-0 naturally has the onus on them to go a bit easier and just run the football since they've already won the game, possibly a Patriots fan, and some other random little posts here and there that said they had no problem with running up the score.

Worst of all though is you, the Ravens fan who just comes in here to antagonize and clearly doesn't buy the crap that's coming out of your mouth.

You're the one that's wrong here. What the Pats did was classless and disgusting. They're a great team with personality problems and a disregard for the unwritten rules. The running-up-the-score today was despicable.

[mweb]

I don't know, I feel like as long as the Skins have their first team out there and are trying to win, the Pats can do whatever they want. If you're Gibbs and you don't want them to be passing and going for touchdowns, put in your backups as a signal that you have essentially conceded. If, at that point, the Pats kept their first team in, then they were definitely being unsportsmanlike.

Think of how many times the Orioles have stopped trying in the late innings, and then had something like Mother's Day Massacre happen. Yeah, maybe someone would get pissed off if the Orioles stole a base to get a 6th or 7th insurance run, but at least they wouldn't end up losing the game. Better to be cutthroat and win than to be careless/negligent and lose. I know that it is different in football because in baseball there is no clock, but I think the same principle applies.

When you're down 38-0 with 10 minutes left, you're no longer trying to win, you get that right? There was no chance of the Pats losing at that point.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Oh ok...Next time i will have to remember my audience and agree with everything you guys say. :rolleyes:

And yet you question others' maturity.

[bryanman8]

Can't wait to see the response on this.
Why? 49-17 doesn't seem nearly as bad as going up 52-0. I'd have to know the details. 49-17 is a 3-score lead. 45-0 is a six+ score lead. I can't really see the relevance here. I don't think Gibbs ever ran up the score. If he did, he was wrong. I know inside he has a problem with what Belichick did and that's why he didn't shake his hand much if at all.

[square634]

Because anybody that isn't a jerk (meaning, everyone but Bill Belicheck) knows that it is just this side of physically impossible to come back from that far with that little time left.

And, if the Redskins were to start a comeback, you bring your starters back in and start running real plays again. I mean, if these guys are professional football players that only know one way to play (as SOMEONE else said) then they should have no problem coming right back in and aborting the attempted comeback.

So the Pats are obligated to give the Redskins a chance to make a comeback? That seems backward to me. And suppose a team finished off a miraculous comeback even once the starters came back in? I understand that this game was completely out of reach, but it should be up to the team that is losing (the Redskins in this case) to dictate when the game is over by removing their starters. If the Redskins decided they weren't going to go for a miracle comeback, or that such a comeback was impossible, they should have pulled their starters first.

[square634]

When you're down 38-0 with 10 minutes left, you're no longer trying to win, you get that right? There was no chance of the Pats losing at that point.

Again, if you're not trying to win, then why do you have the starters in? I guess you could say they are trying to practice, but if that were really the case, wouldn't you want to practice against the real Pats offense?

[geschinger]

I don't know, I feel like as long as the Skins have their first team out there and are trying to win, the Pats can do whatever they want. If you're Gibbs and you don't want them to be passing and going for touchdowns, put in your backups as a signal that you have essentially conceded. If, at that point, the Pats kept their first team in, then they were definitely being unsportsmanlike.

Think of how many times the Orioles have stopped trying in the late innings, and then had something like Mother's Day Massacre happen. Yeah, maybe someone would get pissed off if the Orioles stole a base to get a 6th or 7th insurance run, but at least they wouldn't end up losing the game. Better to be cutthroat and win than to be careless/negligent and lose. I know that it is different in football because in baseball there is no clock, but I think the same principle applies.

I can only speak of it from my perspective as a Colts fan whose team has been in similar situations quite often over the years. The year that Manning had a gazillion TDs he sat out entire 4th quarters of several games. When the Colts get into situations where the game is not in doubt - i.e. today up by 24 in the 4th quarter I like seeing them put in Sorgi and give the backup RB some reps against a 1st team defense that knows they are going to run. I'm a lot more proud of seeing them rip off an 11 play drive that nets 0 points and runs 6-7 minutes off the clock than I would be having Manning out there risking injury and trying to run up the score.

[bryanman8]

So the Pats are obligated to give the Redskins a chance to make a comeback? That seems backward to me. And suppose a team finished off a miraculous comeback even once the starters came back in? I understand that this game was completely out of reach, but it should be up to the team that is losing (the Redskins in this case) to dictate when the game is over by removing their starters. If the Redskins decided they weren't going to go for a miracle comeback, or that such a comeback was impossible, they should have pulled their starters first.
Comeback? Comeback?! Comeback?!! /Jim Mora

It doesn't work that way in football. Teams with big leads that have already won the game take their starters out and run the ball. Teams getting killed keep their starters in and pass the ball because they're getting whooped and have nothing else to do and obviously are the ones that could use some practice and some chipping away at the score because they're getting disgraced.

That's just the way it is and always has been. There's no mutual treaty crap where the team kicking goes up 30-0, 60-0, 90-0, whatever until the other team takes their starters out. You said it yourself; the comeback was impossible, so the Patriots should not have been in and trying because they had nothing to protect against. Who cares what the Redskins were doing?

[mweb]

Again, if you're not trying to win, then why do you have the starters in?

Trying to win? I can't even imagine you're being serious. How about trying to score a TD, how about trying to give their young QB and struggling offense some confidence going into next week.

[Sports Guy]

Why? 49-17 doesn't seem nearly as bad as going up 52-0. I'd have to know the details. 49-17 is a 3-score lead. 45-0 is a six+ score lead. I can't really see the relevance here. I don't think Gibbs ever ran up the score. If he did, he was wrong. I know inside he has a problem with what Belichick did and that's why he didn't shake his hand much if at all.
3 score lead? Its 32 points..Pretty sure a TD didn't use to be worth 11 points....Its a blowout..It is the same premise here.

Your coach did it..The same coach you said shouldn't have something like this done to them.

[square634]

I can only speak of it from my perspective as a Colts fan whose team has been in similar situations quite often over the years. The year that Manning had a gazillion TDs he sat out entire 4th quarters of several games. When the Colts get into situations where the game is not in doubt - i.e. today up by 24 in the 4th quarter I like seeing them put in Sorgi and give the backup RB some reps against a 1st team defense that knows they are going to run. I'm a lot more proud of seeing them rip off an 11 play drive that nets 0 points and runs 6-7 minutes off the clock than I would be having Manning out there risking injury and trying to run up the score.

Oh, I would definitely take the starters out, but more for injury reasons and getting backups reps in case they are needed later in the season.


Trying to win? I can't even imagine you're being serious. How about trying to score a TD, how about trying to give their young QB and struggling offense some confidence going into next week.

The Pats were probably giving Campbell more of a chance to get a TD and some confidence by scoring so quickly to get him back on the field. And if that counts as a reason that the Redskins should still be trying on offense, can't the same thing be said about the Patriots giving Tom Brady the opportunity to try different things? (I wouldn't buy that argument, but it could be said).


It doesn't work that way in football. Teams with big leads that have already won the game take their starters out and run the ball. Teams getting killed keep their starters in and pass the ball because they're getting whooped and have nothing else to do and obviously are the ones that could use some practice and some chipping away at the score because they're getting disgraced.

If the Pats are supposed to just run the ball, then basically they are not trying their hardest to score. It follows then that it would be good sportsmanship to just kneel three times and punt, since the game is over. In other words what's the point of even giving the illusion of trying? If I were a coach in that situation I would either try all out like Belichick did, get my backups reps and experience (in which case I'd still want them to throw the ball to get reps against a live defense), or just kneel a bunch of times. I would most likely go with option two if no personal achievements (like a touchdown record) were at stake.

I don't know, I'm just not one for unwritten rules most of the time. It's a competition, they should be competing until the game ends. I'm not sure I agree with what Belichick did, but I guess I'm not 100% against it either. And I'm trying to play devil's advocate a little bit :D

[Sports Guy]

Trying to win? I can't even imagine you're being serious. How about trying to score a TD, how about trying to give their young QB and struggling offense some confidence going into next week.

Campbell absolutely should have been in that game.

Aikman was 100% right...This game will help him more than it will hurt him IMO.

[Sports Guy]

And yet you question others' maturity.

Its a shame Scottie isn't reading this thread...He has constantly had to get on you for doing this type of stuff lately...Bringing nothing to a thread and just being, well you.

[bryanman8]

3 score lead? Its 32 points..Pretty sure a TD didn't use to be worth 11 points....Its a blowout..It is the same premise here.

Your coach did it..The same coach you said shouldn't have something like this done to them.
SG, you didn't even know anything about this, and we're talking about 1991. This is highly irrelevant and another attempt to reach for straws and try to say anything remotely correct.

Show me a play-by-play of that game, please. Were they up 35-17 and threw to pick up 2 TD's to increase the lead? We have no idea what the circumstances are.

If Joe Gibbs ran up the score 16 years ago, shame on him. What the hell does that have to do with anything about Bill Belichick?

If I actually knew what happened there and it was anything similar to what the Pats did today, I would admit that they were both wrong. There's no homerism involved here. Running up the score is wrong, big time. What the Pats did today was wrong, big time. You can't seem to grasp that, sadly.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Its a shame Scottie isn't reading this thread...He has constantly had to get on you for doing this type of stuff lately...Bringing nothing to a thread and just being, well you.

But, you can call someone a three-year-old and get away with it?

Don't come back with the, "He was acting that way," bulls---, because you are acting that way as well.

[Sports Guy]

SG, you didn't even know anything about this, and we're talking about 1991. This is highly irrelevant and another attempt to reach for straws and try to say anything remotely correct.

Show me a play-by-play of that game, please. Were they up 35-17 and threw to pick up 2 TD's to increase the lead? We have no idea what the circumstances are.

If Joe Gibbs ran up the score 16 years ago, shame on him. What the hell does that have to do with anything about Bill Belichick?

If I actually knew what happened there and it was anything similar to what the Pats did today, I would admit that they were both wrong. There's no homerism involved here. Running up the score is wrong, big time. What the Pats did today was wrong, big time. You can't seem to grasp that, sadly.


What I don't appreciate is, after watching them play in their entirety and completely disgrace and disrespect Joe Gibbs, how blatantly they run up the score and have a complete disregard for class.


You don't do that to Joe Gibbs.

These were your comments.

Your coach, the one you said you don't do this too, apparently did the same thing you are complaining about here.

Hopefully you see the relevance here.

[mweb]

.



These were your comments.

Your coach, the one you said you don't do this too, apparently did the same thing you are complaining about here.

Hopefully you see the relevance here.

If he did the same thing, we're saying that was screwed up as well, you want consistency, well you got it. The main point is not who he did it to, it's the act itself.

[bryanman8]

.



These were your comments.

Your coach, the one you said you don't do this too, apparently did the same thing you are complaining about here.

Hopefully you see the relevance here.
1. Joe Gibbs of now is not Joe Gibbs of 1991. This should be obvious.

2. You're just taking someone else's word for it and had no idea what happened. Again, 49-17 scores happen sometimes without you running up the score. The Skins, as I said, beat the 49ers 52-17 in 2005.

3. So, if it turns out Joe Gibbs did that, the only part that would become invalid is that it wouldn't just be "you don't do that to Joe Gibbs," it would be that you don't do that to anyone. It doesn't change the argument at all. What the Pats did today was completely wrong. Joe Gibbs is one of the most respected coaches in the NFL and would never do anything like that today. If he did it before, it was wrong then too.

Quit trying to change the subject and nitpick on stuff that wasn't even yours. What the Pats did today was disgraceful, classless, and wrong. I hope some day you understand that. Week 13, hopefully.

[Sports Guy]

If he did the same thing, we're saying that was screwed up as well, you want consistency, well you got it. The main point is not who he did it to, it's the act itself.

And i just don't see the act of "running up the score" to be a big deal.

It is just pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things...That has been my point.

It bothers you and others...That's fine.

I still say it doesn't get brought up if it doesn't happen to the Skins and well, i am right about that because it wasn't mentioned last week.

[geschinger]

Why? 49-17 doesn't seem nearly as bad as going up 52-0. I'd have to know the details. 49-17 is a 3-score lead. 45-0 is a six+ score lead. I can't really see the relevance here. I don't think Gibbs ever ran up the score. If he did, he was wrong. I know inside he has a problem with what Belichick did and that's why he didn't shake his hand much if at all.

The 1991 Redskins were a lot like the current Patriots (http://www.hogshaven.com/story/2007/10/19/131055/75)

Correction - they actually won this game 56-17. Favre's first pass was intercepted for a TD. While I don't know the circumstances of how they won they did beat Bellichick's Browns in a blowout that same season.

[BaltimoreTerp]

3 score lead? Its 32 points..Pretty sure a TD didn't use to be worth 11 points....Its a blowout..It is the same premise here.

Your coach did it..The same coach you said shouldn't have something like this done to them.

You are right, and Gibbs has far less room to complain.

However, it was both 16 years ago AND apparently an isolated case (unless someone can say otherwise). Not exactly evidence to prove a point, unless that point is that Gibbs, once, at one point in his career, did something bad as a coach.

[Spoonless]

I love how keeping your best players in is "bad sportsmanship," while lowering the level of competition by bringing in backups is the "right thing to do." Isn't that kind of disrespectful to the other team, to say "we don't need our best guys in here against you?"

[Sports Guy]

1. Joe Gibbs of now is not Joe Gibbs of 1991. This should be obvious.
He still did it.

2. You're just taking someone else's word for it and had no idea what happened. Again, 49-17 scores happen sometimes without you running up the score. The Skins, as I said, beat the 49ers 52-17 in 2005.Yes i am taking someone's word for it...I doubt Gesch would post lies.


3. So, if it turns out Joe Gibbs did that, the only part that would become invalid is that it wouldn't just be "you don't do that to Joe Gibbs," it would be that you don't do that to anyone. It doesn't change the argument at all. What the Pats did today was completely wrong. Joe Gibbs is one of the most respected coaches in the NFL and would never do anything like that today.
And he wasn't respected in 1991??

BB is now what Gibbs was then.

[square634]

I love how keeping your best players in is "bad sportsmanship," while lowering the level of competition by bringing in backups is the "right thing to do." Isn't that kind of disrespectful to the other team, to say "we don't need our best guys in here against you?"

Yeah, that is also part of what I was getting at when I said it somehow feels backward to call it bad sportsmanship. Not that I think it is good sportsmanship... I am kind of torn on the issue.

[BaltimoreTerp]

And i just don't see the act of "running up the score" to be a big deal.

It is just pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things...That has been my point.

It bothers you and others...That's fine.

I still say it doesn't get brought up if it doesn't happen to the Skins and well, i am right about that because it wasn't mentioned last week.

From last week:


Whats insane is their refusal to run the ball. Yeah I've got Maroney on my FF team but as a casual fan, it's just amazing that they are up 35 pts and are still throwing. People say that will come back to haunt them but I don't see how, when they are killing the teams they play. I think they will go 16-0 this season. I know they could slip up, and all it takes is one slip up, but the way they are playing I don't see it happening.


Have you been watching these games? The Pats are hitting these teams with a bus, backing up, and running over them again. They're pretty blatantly running up the score on everybody. The idea that they're going to let off the gas is silly. I don't know if it's a persecution complex over CameraGate or what (that's my guess), but this team is going for the throat and trying to rub everybody's face in it. They pulled Brady for like 3 minutes today and then put him back in. They were up 35-7 and ran a 2-minute drill! I think they're gunning for 16-0. Keep him.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I love how keeping your best players in is "bad sportsmanship," while lowering the level of competition by bringing in backups is the "right thing to do." Isn't that kind of disrespectful to the other team, to say "we don't need our best guys in here against you?"

No, because you are saying, "We don't need to embarrass you any further by scoring more then we have to."

[bryanman8]

The 1991 Redskins were a lot like the current Patriots (http://www.hogshaven.com/story/2007/10/19/131055/75)

Correction - they actually won this game 56-17. Favre's first pass was intercepted for a TD. While I don't know the circumstances of how they won they did beat Bellichick's Browns in a blowout that same season.
I see that as evidence that they were really good. I see no evidence of the running up the score you mentioned.

Was Rypien in with us up 38-0 late in the 4th? Did we go for it on 4th down up 38-0? Did we go for it, and pass, on 4th down up 45-0? Did we spike the ball after scoring to put us up more than 50?

Here's an example of class:
Earlier this year, Carlos Rogers returns an INT for a TD to put the Skins up 34-3 over the Lions. He puts the ball down in the endzone, turns around and sprints back to the sideline.

Matt Cassell spiking the ball was actually probably the worst thing I saw in the game. The pass on 4th and 2 from the 35 up 45-0 was a close second.

Nobody on a Joe Gibbs team would ever do that.

[mweb]

And i just don't see the act of "running up the score" to be a big deal.

It is just pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things...That has been my point.

It bothers you and others...That's fine.

I still say it doesn't get brought up if it doesn't happen to the Skins and well, i am right about that because it wasn't mentioned last week.

You're clearly wrong about that because a Ravens fan brought it up. Hopefully you'll actually be able to admit it, and then we can be done with this.

[ledzepp8]

.



These were your comments.

Your coach, the one you said you don't do this too, apparently did the same thing you are complaining about here.

Hopefully you see the relevance here.

And he said it was wrong if he did. He also said that neither of you have any idea what the circumstances were of that game.

[square634]

I see that as evidence that they were really good. I see no evidence of the running up the score you mentioned.

Was Rypien in with us up 38-0 late in the 4th? Did we go for it on 4th down up 38-0? Did we go for it, and pass, on 4th down up 45-0? Did we spike the ball after scoring to put us up more than 50?

Here's an example of class:
Earlier this year, Carlos Rogers returns an INT for a TD to put the Skins up 34-3 over the Lions. He puts the ball down in the endzone, turns around and sprints back to the sideline.

Matt Cassell spiking the ball was actually probably the worst thing I saw in the game. The pass on 4th and 2 from the 35 up 45-0 was a close second.

Nobody on a Joe Gibbs team would ever do that.

If it was Cassell's first professional touchdown, then I think it is understandable that he would be so excited. Think about how excited you would be if you made it into the NFL and were able to score a touchdown.

If that wasn't his first touchdown, then I agree there's no excuse for it.

[geschinger]

I see that as evidence that they were really good. I see no evidence of the running up the score you mentioned.

Was Rypien in with us up 38-0 late in the 4th? Did we go for it on 4th down up 38-0? Did we go for it, and pass, on 4th down up 45-0? Did we spike the ball after scoring to put us up more than 50?

Here's an example of class:
Earlier this year, Carlos Rogers returns an INT for a TD to put the Skins up 34-3 over the Lions. He puts the ball down in the endzone, turns around and sprints back to the sideline.

Matt Cassell spiking the ball was actually probably the worst thing I saw in the game. The pass on 4th and 2 from the 35 up 45-0 was a close second.

Nobody on a Joe Gibbs team would ever do that.

What I read was that they scored 21 in the 4th qtr - Rypien to Clark on a 61 yarder and another on an 81 yarder to go w/the pick6 courtesy of Favre.

[Spoonless]

No, because you are saying, "We don't need to embarrass you any further by scoring more then we have to."

I'd think the actual message would be "we're pretty confident that we don't need out starters to hold on for the win, so we're not going to further risk injury to them by leaving them in against you." You pull your starters not out of some sign of respect or courtesy to the other team. You pull them to avoid taking unnecessary risks with them so that you can come back again next week and win. Taking your starters has nothing to do with sportsmanship and everything to do with protecting valuable commodities.

[bryanman8]

What I read was that they scored 21 in the 4th qtr - Rypien to Clark on a 61 yarder and another on an 81 yarder to go w/the pick6 courtesy of Favre.
Sorry, but this is far too dubious for me, especially since you're apparently getting it from another source too. Was it 28-17 and the Skins scored 21 in the 4th? Again, we really don't seem to have any idea what the circumstances were.

Certainly not enough to call one of the most respected coaches in football the same as Belichick, the biggest jack@$$ in football, in 1991, as SG hilariously did.

The difference was that Gibbs had a great team that respected the game while Belichick has a great team with no respect for the game, it appears.

[ledzepp8]

From last week:

Not to mention:


Way to run up the score at the end there Belichick. Did you really need to run the ball in with 19 seconds left and a 14 point lead?

[geschinger]

Sorry, but this is far too dubious for me, especially since you're apparently getting it from another source too. Was it 28-17 and the Skins scored 21 in the 4th? Again, we really don't seem to have any idea what the circumstances were.

Certainly not enough to call one of the most respected coaches in football the same as Belichick, the biggest jack@$$ in football, in 1991, as SG hilariously did.

The difference was that Gibbs had a great team that respected the game while Belichick has a great team with no respect for the game, it appears.

Here ya go... (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE1DC1F3DF932A25752C1A9679582 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print)
It was 35-17 and they put up 21 in the 4th two of which were the bombs to Clark.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I'd think the actual message would be "we're pretty confident that we don't need out starters to hold on for the win, so we're not going to further risk injury to them by leaving them in against you." You pull your starters not out of some sign of respect or courtesy to the other team. You pull them to avoid taking unnecessary risks with them so that you can come back again next week and win. Taking your starters has nothing to do with sportsmanship and everything to do with protecting valuable commodities.

Even at high-school and rec-level football?

[square634]

Paraphrased reactions on sportscenter:
Tom Jackson: If you don't like it do something about it.
Chris Berman: They're a professional football team, and this is how they've decided to go about it.

I have to say, after seeing Belichick's press conference when they asked him that question, he does seem like he was just being an a--.

[square634]

Even at high-school and rec-level football?

Different story entirely. The Patriots and Redskins are professional teams, paid to play football, compete, and entertain their fans.

[Spoonless]

Even at high-school and rec-level football?

Even then, you're giving the second and third-stringers playing time. You take your starters out to get your backups playing time.

[mweb]

Here ya go... (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE1DC1F3DF932A25752C1A9679582 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print)
It was 35-17 and they put up 21 in the 4th two of which were the bombs to Clark.

Would need more info than what's there to determine how bad it was. The INT Return was at the end, and that would be bad if it was a difficult runback, but if he had a clear path, I wouldn't expect him to just kneel down.

[bryanman8]

Here ya go... (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE1DC1F3DF932A25752C1A9679582 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print)
It was 35-17 and they put up 21 in the 4th two of which were the bombs to Clark.
I see something about Rypien taking himself out of the game, I see an INT return for a TD for that last TD, and I see nothing that would suggest anything close to the level of poor sportsmanship the Pats showed today.

35-17 is not an insane score to keep starters in. One was probably a TD with Rypien in. The other I'm guessing was with him out or maybe early in the quarter to put them up 49-17 and ensure the game was over. And the last one was an interception.

[mweb]

Paraphrased reactions on sportscenter:
Tom Jackson: If you don't like it do something about it.
Chris Berman: They're a professional football team, and this is how they've decided to go about it.

I have to say, after seeing Belichick's press conference when they asked him that question, he does seem like he was just being an a--.

And when someone does something about it, possibly meaning taking a cheap shot at Brady or someone, they'll get suspended and maybe someone will get hurt. There's no reason to have it come to that if you're coaching the team that already has the game won.

[square634]

And when someone does something about it, possibly meaning taking a cheap shot at Brady or someone, they'll get suspended and maybe someone will get hurt. There's no reason to have it come to that if you're coaching the team that already has the game won.

He meant do something about it as in stop them from scoring if you are a professional team. He said something like "You had three hours to do something about it."

[Spoonless]

And when someone does something about it, possibly meaning taking a cheap shot at Brady or someone, they'll get suspended and maybe someone will get hurt. There's no reason to have it come to that if you're coaching the team that already has the game won.

Right, but that's about protecting your players. That's not about sportsmanship. Leaving your starters in isn't smart because it's an unnecessary risk to their well-being. The added bonus that you might not score as much and hurt the other team's feelings more is just a side effect.

[mweb]

He meant do something about it as in stop them from scoring if you are a professional team. He said something like "You had three hours to do something about it."

Ok, well obviously they didn't do a good job of that, a team with class would have laid off the gas peddle earlier. However, what I spoke off is something that can easily happen when dealing with a bunch of frustrated and embarrased players, and the Pats are just lucky it hasn't happened yet. Lucky that one of their key guys hasn't been hurt late in a decided game cheap shot or not. I'll be laughing at Bill if it does happen, although I won't laugh at the player.

[geschinger]

I see something about Rypien taking himself out of the game, I see an INT return for a TD for that last TD, and I see nothing that would suggest anything close to the level of poor sportsmanship the Pats showed today.

35-17 is not an insane score to keep starters in. One was probably a TD with Rypien in. The other I'm guessing was with him out or maybe early in the quarter to put them up 49-17 and ensure the game was over. And the last one was an interception.

I'm not trying to defend the situation with Brady, just pointing out that it'd be hard to argue that Gibbs didn't have some skeletons in his closet when it comes to running up the score. Rypien was in there to throw all six TDs so he was the one throwing deep up big in the 4th.

[mweb]

Here ya go... (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE1DC1F3DF932A25752C1A9679582 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print)
It was 35-17 and they put up 21 in the 4th two of which were the bombs to Clark.

A game I do remember for that year is the Super Bowl, and the Skins showed a lot of class in that game, they eased off quite a bit.

[mweb]

I'm not trying to defend the situation with Brady, just pointing out that it'd be hard to argue that Gibbs didn't have some skeletons in his closet when it comes to running up the score. Rypien was in there to throw all six TDs so he was the one throwing deep up big in the 4th.

They very well may have done nothing but run in the last 8-12 minutes though, so again, we don't know if it was that bad. Most likely bad, but probably not nearly as bad as what the Pats are doing.

[geschinger]

A game I do remember for that year is the Super Bowl, and the Skins showed a lot of class in that game, they eased off quite a bit.

I don't know if you remember the situation back then, but it seems to me that there might have been some bad blood between Glanville and Gibbs that might have contributed to the severity of the beat down.

[mweb]

I don't know if you remember the situation back then, but it seems to me that there might have been some bad blood between Glanville and Gibbs that might have contributed to the severity of the beat down.

I don't recall.

If there's a feud with a coach, that makes it more understandable, still not right though.

[longflyball]

Wow.

Sports Guy, I just read this thread from top to bottom and I have to say you come off like looking like a fool. The ineptitude with which you attempted to argue your case demonstrated that the case cannot be effectively argued. Even if you wish to parse words and don't call it "running up the score", New England displayed poor sportsmanship and a lack of class. No rational person could have observed that game and reached a different conclusion. If one doesn't believe that there is a place for sportsmanship and class in the NFL, that's another issue entirely, and speaks to one's character. I had assumed that the convention against running up the score was a universally accepted dictum in sports. I guess I was wrong. And BTW,...I'm a Baltimore fan.

If I were coaching against the Patriots and they were throwing bombs or running a hurry-up with the game well in hand I would either instruct my players to rack up all the 15 yard personal fouls the officials were able to call, or pull my team off the field and head to the locker room.

I hope that one of New England's future opponents has the balls to do at least the first.

Up until now I have admired the the franchise's consistent excellence in a league where consistent excellence is virtually impossible to achieve. Now I think they're classless a$$holes at best and cheaters at worst. May they go undefeated and lose in the divisional round of the playoffs.

[longflyball]

Reported (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3084539) by ESPN's John Clayton:


To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets.

"There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."

Cheaters.

[Dr. FLK]

Reported (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3084539) by ESPN's John Clayton:



Cheaters.

This isn't the first team to lose communications with the QB during the game in NE. Martz has complained about that on several occasions.

Now, I'll admit to being a die hard Skins fan. And, I always say that the best way to keep a team from running up the score is to stop them. But, there's no need to be throwing deep with a 40+ point lead in the 4th. That's just classless. And, losing headset communication didn't effect the outcome of this game. But, I think it's obvious that Bellichek doesn't give a crap if everyone thinks he's an ignorant ***** who runs up the score. He's there to win. I just wish Sean Taylor could have knocked Brady silly to make him regret that move. Unfortunately, the Skins couldn't knock anyone sily...or even tackle many people. The Pats were clearly the better team...but the Skins didn't show up either.

In Summary: Here is what we learned today.

1) The Pats are good.
2) Bellichek is a *****.
3) But he doesn't care.
4) The Skins still aren't a good team.
5) Tom Brady's "fake humbleness" and "exaggerated enthusiasm" make me want to vomit.

[frankpembleton]

Wow.

Sports Guy, I just read this thread from top to bottom and I have to say you come off like looking like a fool. The ineptitude with which you attempted to argue your case demonstrated that the case cannot be effectively argued. Even if you wish to parse words and don't call it "running up the score", New England displayed poor sportsmanship and a lack of class. No rational person could have observed that game and reached a different conclusion. If one doesn't believe that there is a place for sportsmanship and class in the NFL, that's another issue entirely, and speaks to one's character. I had assumed that the convention against running up the score was a universally accepted dictum in sports. I guess I was wrong. And BTW,...I'm a Baltimore fan.

If I were coaching against the Patriots and they were throwing bombs or running a hurry-up with the game well in hand I would either instruct my players to rack up all the 15 yard personal fouls the officials were able to call, or pull my team off the field and head to the locker room.




Sounds like a job for Buddy Ryan....or someone related.

If the Pats start running up a score on our D I can really see Rex sending everyone.

[Spoonless]

Reported (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3084539) by ESPN's John Clayton:



Cheaters.

It happens in other stadiums against other teams at critical moments as well, such as last week with the Bears, when Griese led his team down the field to win. It's not just the Patriots that do it. Now, that doesn't make it right, but it seems like everyone wants to think the Pats are the only ones who do anything immoral in the NFL.


No rational person could have observed that game and reached a different conclusion. If one doesn't believe that there is a place for sportsmanship and class in the NFL, that's another issue entirely, and speaks to one's character.

If I were coaching against the Patriots and they were throwing bombs or running a hurry-up with the game well in hand I would either instruct my players to rack up all the 15 yard personal fouls the officials were able to call, or pull my team off the field and head to the locker room.

I hope that one of New England's future opponents has the balls to do at least the first.

I like how after calling SG a fool, you go on to say that anyone with a differing opinion than you on the subject is irrational, and that it calls into question their character. Just because you said it eloquently doesn't make it any less of an insult.

The best part is that you talk about how they're not showing sportsmanship, then question the character of anyone who doesn't have a problem with them "running up the score," and then go on to say that if you were coaching the other team, you'd have them commit all the personal fouls they could. You know, because if the other team isn't being "classy" in your eyes, it's OK to display poor sportsmanship.

[Mackus]

Are you serious? I hope you never coach any teams.;)

There is nothing awesome about it.I wouldn't think its good for a little league team to be doing, because the kids on each team aren't always (and usually aren't) of the same skill level. I also wouldn't think its good in a NCAA Basketball of Football game pitting a storied college against a random cupcake, again not same level of competition.

But two teams in the NFL, getting paid to play, are at the same skill level. The NFL in particular has such great parity that the difference between the best and worst teams is usually miniscule. If there is any even hint of a doubt of the game being completely over, I have no problems with a team still trying to score. My basic guideline would be determine the maximum amount of points any team has ever scored over any timeframe equal to the time remaining and add 8 points to that. If you're up by more than that amount, then continuing to attack is running up the score.

I do think its a bit unsportsmanlike to continue to score even just up a few scores late in the game, but if I'm a coach, I can explain unsportsmanlike behavior. I can't explain blowing a 3 TD lead with 6 minutes to go. One is a foregiveable sin, the other is a fireable sin. I certainly know what'd I'd be doing if my job depending on winning.

[NewMarketSean]

You know full well that if you were Pats fan you wouldn't be having a problem with what they are doing.

[geschinger]

If there is any even hint of a doubt of the game being completely over, I have no problems with a team still trying to score. My basic guideline would be determine the maximum amount of points any team has ever scored over any timeframe equal to the time remaining and add 8 points to that. If you're up by more than that amount, then continuing to attack is running up the score.

At 38-0 there wasn't even a hint of doubt about the game being over. I don't think anyone has ever come close to scoring 6 times in the last 10 minutes of a game. I don't see how what happened yesterday could be considered anything other than running up the score.

[geschinger]

You know full well that if you were Pats fan you wouldn't be having a problem with what they are doing.

I can't speak for anyone else but I would have a problem with it. The Colts have been in similar positions many times in recent years and I don't want Manning in the game. In fact, I find it incredibly enjoyable watching Sorgi and the backups line up against a team that knows they are running and dares them to stop them from making 1st downs and killing the clock.

[Mackus]

At 38-0 there wasn't even a hint of doubt about the game being over. I don't think anyone has ever come close to scoring 6 times in the last 10 minutes of a game. I don't see how what happened yesterday could be considered anything other than running up the score.Like I said, if there were ten minutes left, find the most points any team in history has scored over any ten minute period. Add 8 to whatever that is. If they are up by more than that, then its running up the score. If they aren't, its just getting to a point where victory is guaranteed.

[AgentOrange]

Like I said, if there were ten minutes left, find the most points any team in history has scored over any ten minute period. Add 8 to whatever that is. If they are up by more than that, then its running up the score. If they aren't, its just getting to a point where victory is guaranteed.

No way possible. The Patriots could kneel on the ball for the entire 4th quarter and still win by 25.

[backwardsk]

Reported (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3084539) by ESPN's John Clayton:



Cheaters.

The Redskins have had 3 road games this season: Philly, Green Bay, New England.

All three games they've had "technical problems." Have any visiting team at Fed Ex had any problems? I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I haven't heard of anything reported this year.

Redskins fans, if the Cowboys played the Patriots this year in the Super Bowl, who do you root for?

[glenn__davis]

You know full well that if you were Pats fan you wouldn't be having a problem with what they are doing.

I don't agree with that, unless you're going up against a rival. I'd have no problem running up the score against a heated rival.

Fortunately, I won't need to worry about this issue with my team for some time.

[The Wedge]

The Redskins have had 3 road games this season: Philly, Green Bay, New England.

All three games they've had "technical problems." Have any visiting team at Fed Ex had any problems? I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I haven't heard of anything reported this year.



Not quite sure what you're saying, but the communications systems are installed in each stadium, and therefore it would stand to reason that each stadiums staff would be the ones that run and maintain the gear.

Of course, you may be suggesting operator error, but the last sentence seems to contradict that.

[Dr. FLK]

The Redskins have had 3 road games this season: Philly, Green Bay, New England.

All three games they've had "technical problems." Have any visiting team at Fed Ex had any problems? I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I haven't heard of anything reported this year.

Redskins fans, if the Cowboys played the Patriots this year in the Super Bowl, who do you root for?

I'd root for Communism over the Cowboys.

[backwardsk]

I'd root for Communism over the Cowboys.

I know, right. I thought about this question yesterday during the World Series, and got mad all over again.

[Sports Guy]

I'd root for Communism over the Cowboys.

Yea really...Shouldn't even be a question....38-0, 45-0, 52-0..Whatever...Still a blow out either way, whether you think they ran up the score or not.

But to root for a real rival that is really hated over the Pats because of yesterday would be absurd IMO.

That would be like the Orioles fans hating the Rangers more than the Yankees because of the 30-3 game.

[backwardsk]

Yea really...Shouldn't even be a question....38-0, 45-0, 52-0..Whatever...Still a blow out either way, whether you think they ran up the score or not.

But to root for a real rival that is really hated over the Pats because of yesterday would be absurd IMO.

That would be like the Orioles fans hating the Rangers more than the Yankees because of the 30-3 game.

It's more of the whole Boston thing. First the Red Sox, then the Patriots being the best team of all time. And it's not just because of yesterday. They are the big boys on the block, going for their fourth Super Bowl title this decade.

If these two teams played in the Super Bowl, it would be a big let down. Of course I wouldn't want Dallas to win, but I wouldn't want to see another Patriots win.

Actually I hope this scenario plays out: The Pats go undefeated this regular season, never scoring under 30 points in any game. Then they get beat in the AFC title game.

[geschinger]

Actually I hope this scenario plays out: The Pats go undefeated this regular season, never scoring under 30 points in any game. Then they get beat in the AFC title game.

I'd much rather see NE lose on Sunday *and* in the AFCCG, but if they do win on Sunday I'd agree that it would be great if things played out as you hope.

[HoodGuy007]

I'd much rather see NE lose on Sunday *and* in the AFCCG, but if they do win on Sunday I'd agree that it would be great if things played out as you hope.
I'm personally a fan of the Dolphins coming out of no where and beating the snot out of the Pats late in the season. It'll happen, just wait and see. John Beck is a-coming. :)

[backwardsk]

I'd much rather see NE lose on Sunday *and* in the AFCCG, but if they do win on Sunday I'd agree that it would be great if things played out as you hope.

Regardless of the scenario I put out there, I'll be pulling hard for your Colts on Sunday.

[DrLev]

Reported (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3084539) by ESPN's John Clayton:



Cheaters.


Better break out the tinfoil hats!

And besides, since week 2 of this season, communication systems at every field have been closely monitored and supervised by league personnel. No one is pulling anything shady with the systems now. As anyone who has worked with wired or wireless sound and communication systems knows, they're extremely fickle things (any other technical theater people here?). They crap out, screw up, and die all the time.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Better break out the tinfoil hats!

And besides, since week 2 of this season, communication systems at every field have been closely monitored and supervised by league personnel. No one is pulling anything shady with the systems now. As anyone who has worked with wired or wireless sound and communication systems knows, they're extremely fickle things (any other technical theater people here?). They crap out, screw up, and die all the time.

What are your thoughts on the way NE ran up the score yesterday?

[mweb]

I wouldn't think its good for a little league team to be doing, because the kids on each team aren't always (and usually aren't) of the same skill level. I also wouldn't think its good in a NCAA Basketball of Football game pitting a storied college against a random cupcake, again not same level of competition.

But two teams in the NFL, getting paid to play, are at the same skill level. The NFL in particular has such great parity that the difference between the best and worst teams is usually miniscule. If there is any even hint of a doubt of the game being completely over, I have no problems with a team still trying to score. My basic guideline would be determine the maximum amount of points any team has ever scored over any timeframe equal to the time remaining and add 8 points to that. If you're up by more than that amount, then continuing to attack is running up the score.

I do think its a bit unsportsmanlike to continue to score even just up a few scores late in the game, but if I'm a coach, I can explain unsportsmanlike behavior. I can't explain blowing a 3 TD lead with 6 minutes to go. One is a foregiveable sin, the other is a fireable sin. I certainly know what'd I'd be doing if my job depending on winning.


First off, the difference between the Pats and many teams in this league is not miniscule at all.

Secondly, all that stuff is fine about making sure the game isn't lost, but the game was not in question at all in the 4th, so I don't see how anything you wrote about winning has anything to do with yesterday.

[mweb]

You know full well that if you were Pats fan you wouldn't be having a problem with what they are doing.

Yes I would, I would want Brady and all key guys out earlier to prevent injury and bad sportsmanship.

[mweb]

You're clearly wrong about that because a Ravens fan brought it up. Hopefully you'll actually be able to admit it, and then we can be done with this.

I'm shocked SG hasn't responded to this.

[Mackus]

First off, the difference between the Pats and many teams in this league is not miniscule at all.

Secondly, all that stuff is fine about making sure the game isn't lost, but the game was not in question at all in the 4th, so I don't see how anything you wrote about winning has anything to do with yesterday.I think they definitely were running up the score yesterday, and its certainly poor sportsmanship, but I don't think its some sort of unspeakable horror like some others are making it out to be on here (to the point of losing control, judging from the vacations given to BTerp and Bryan).

I gotta admit that I do kinda like the mentality Belichick is showing, that he is gonna kick the crap out of you and he doesn't care if it pisses you off. Aside from the injury risk to his starters, I don't have a problem with them running up the score. It definitely will irk some people, and not undeservedly, but I think its a fun challenge from Belichick to the rest of the league. He is clearly convinced that his team is light years better than everyone else, and is daring the rest of the league to prove him wrong.

[geschinger]

I gotta admit that I do kinda like the mentality Belichick is showing, that he is gonna kick the crap out of you and he doesn't care if it pisses you off. Aside from the injury risk to his starters, I don't have a problem with them running up the score. It definitely will irk some people, and not undeservedly, but I think its a fun challenge from Belichick to the rest of the league. He is clearly convinced that his team is light years better than everyone else, and is daring the rest of the league to prove him wrong.

If it all works out and his guys stay healthy and win the Super Bowl but if he does get someone hurt or if his team wears down and doesn't win the Bellichick approach will go down as one of the dumbest things a coach has ever done.

[DrLev]

What are your thoughts on the way NE ran up the score yesterday?

I think the ethics behind their actions are questionable, at best, but they were taking advantage of a very favorable situation just as 9 out of 10 teams in the league would. When Manning was having his record-setting season, the Colts ran up the score to pad his stats and nobody complained. Even Joe Gibbs publicly stated he did not think the Patriots pulled anything classless or wrong in running up the score, and when he was a guest on Mike & Mike this morning, Mike Ditka said he too had no problem whatsoever with what the Patriots did. The biggest issue I see is increasing the risk for starters to get injured. If Brady goes down, so does the season.

So yes, running up the score is a questionable tactic, but these are pros here. They get paid for this. This isn't youth or high school or even college. Are the Patriots expected to take a knee every possession for the whole fourth quarter? If anything, that would be a bigger slap in the face to the Redskins. The Patriots have been on the wrong side of drubbings like this too. Trust me, I know. I grew up with the team and there were some very, very lean years.

And trust me, the Pats have embarrassed me more than a few times this season. The Spygate thing was classless and wrong, simply Nixonian. Running up the score is also embarrassing to me when I see and hear the flack that the team and (and as a fan, by extension) I take for what is considered by most to be low-down, classless, base action (that I have no control over whatsoever) It definitely hurts a bit.

The media's got some blame in making things much, much bigger than they need to be.

[The Wedge]

Better break out the tinfoil hats!

And besides, since week 2 of this season, communication systems at every field have been closely monitored and supervised by league personnel. No one is pulling anything shady with the systems now. As anyone who has worked with wired or wireless sound and communication systems knows, they're extremely fickle things (any other technical theater people here?). They crap out, screw up, and die all the time.

Right here. I basically run and maintain our football teams comm system, though during home games I'm conning the PA control booth. And we've had a pretty good season thus far (one hiccup for a half at Morgan State) but wireless communication is notoriously fickle. But I'm sure that the installed systems at NFL stadiums use hardline wired to communicate between the field units and the booth. Which means that if they can talk to each other on the field, they should be able to talk to the booth. Losing that connection means something came unplugged between unit and booth, or modified on the base unit itself. Because hardline communications are about 200% more reliable than wireless. Stupid RF.

But if I wanted to purposefully disrupt communications between field and booth at our stadium, all I'd have to do is turn around and pull a couple of patch cables that sends the signal from inputs at the field to the coaches booth upstairs. If the stadiums at the NFL work on a similar system, it'd be easy for a stadium staffer to screw with that without being noticed. I seriously doubt an installed system at an NFL stadium works like that, I would think they have direct lines from field to booth, not inputs that rely on a patch bay for versatility.

[geschinger]

I think the ethics behind their actions are questionable, at best, but they were taking advantage of a very favorable situation just as 9 out of 10 teams in the league would. When Manning was having his record-setting season, the Colts ran up the score to pad his stats and nobody complained.


I do not think this is not accurate. If you go back and look at those games you'll find many instances where Manning didn't even take the field in the 4th quarter. You won't find anything remotely similar to going back on the field and throwing at the point Brady went back out there up 38.

[DrLev]

I do not think this is not accurate. If you go back and look at those games you'll find many instances where Manning didn't even take the field in the 4th quarter. You won't find anything remotely similar to going back on the field and throwing at the point Brady went back out there up 38.

Not so sure about that. I'm pretty positive Manning played at least part of the 4th quarter in every game that season (with possibly one or two exceptions). Brady still came out of the game with more than half of the 4th quarter remaining.

I'm not defending Belichick's decision to run up the score, by the way. Just clearing the air.

[DrLev]

Right here. I basically run and maintain our football teams comm system, though during home games I'm conning the PA control booth. And we've had a pretty good season thus far (one hiccup for a half at Morgan State) but wireless communication is notoriously fickle. But I'm sure that the installed systems at NFL stadiums use hardline wired to communicate between the field units and the booth. Which means that if they can talk to each other on the field, they should be able to talk to the booth. Losing that connection means something came unplugged between unit and booth, or modified on the base unit itself. Because hardline communications are about 200% more reliable than wireless. Stupid RF.

But if I wanted to purposefully disrupt communications between field and booth at our stadium, all I'd have to do is turn around and pull a couple of patch cables that sends the signal from inputs at the field to the coaches booth upstairs. If the stadiums at the NFL work on a similar system, it'd be easy for a stadium staffer to screw with that without being noticed. I seriously doubt an installed system at an NFL stadium works like that, I would think they have direct lines from field to booth, not inputs that rely on a patch bay for versatility.

I'm pretty sure the NFL has it hard-wired from the booth to the communications box on the field, and then wireless from communications box to the headsets. It's that last step where problems can crop up. I have no idea what rain/cold/wind/the elements in general do to the equipment. No protection or shielding is perfect. Regardless, this happens often enough in the NFL and not just at Foxboro that I can't see how the Patriots are cheating in this case.

[longflyball]

I like how after calling SG a fool, you go on to say that anyone with a differing opinion than you on the subject is irrational, and that it calls into question their character. Just because you said it eloquently doesn't make it any less of an insult.

The best part is that you talk about how they're not showing sportsmanship, then question the character of anyone who doesn't have a problem with them "running up the score," and then go on to say that if you were coaching the other team, you'd have them commit all the personal fouls they could. You know, because if the other team isn't being "classy" in your eyes, it's OK to display poor sportsmanship.

If you're a fool, you're a fool. If you're irrational, you're irrational. If your opinion shows a lack of character, it shows a lack of character. If you're wrong, you're wrong. If you act like a jerk, you should expect others to act like a jerk towards you.

[geschinger]

Not so sure about that. I'm pretty positive Manning played at least part of the 4th quarter in every game that season (with possibly one or two exceptions). Brady still came out of the game with more than half of the 4th quarter remaining.

I'm not defending Belichick's decision to run up the score, by the way. Just clearing the air.

If I remember correctly, there was a stretch of about 3-4 games around Thanksgiving where he was throwing 5 TDs a game w/o playing in the 4th qtr. If he played at all it was a possesion or two of handing the ball off. I.e. no offensive scoring in the 4th because they had let up. I think there'd of been a lot of complaining about Manning and Dungy if they had left the foot on the gas and had him throw meaningless 4th qtr TDs in those games. I don't think there is any relevance between the 2004 Colts and the 2007 Patriots relative to running up the score.