Should we fire the head coach, or the offensive coordinator?

[BaltimoreTerp]

We all know that Billick came in to Baltimore with the reputation of being an "offensive genius" (bestowed by the media, of course), and the offensive issues since then.

However, how much of a genius was he?

In 1998, the Vikings scored an NFL-record 556 points, and the offense scored 58 touchdowns between passing and rushing.

However, they weren't near that good in the preceding seasons.

In 1997, they scored 354 points, good for eleventh in the league, and 40 touchdowns.

In 1996, they scored 298 points, good for twenty-third in the league, and 31 touchdowns.

In 1995, they scored 412 points, good for fourth in the league, and 43 touchdowns.

In 1994, they scored 356 points, good for seventh in the league, and 29 touchdowns.

In 1993, they scored 277 points, good for twentieth in the league, and 26 touchdowns.

In 1992, they scored 374 points, good for fourth in the league, and 37 touchdowns.

So, they had a few good years, a couple bad years, and one fantastic year.

Now, one thing we do know is, as a head coach, Billick has done a really good job. He knows how to motivate players, work with the media, and work the officials.

He also has shown a very interesting aptitude in finding quality coaches and putting them in the right positions, at least on the defensive side: Marvin Lewis, Mike Nolan and Jack Del Rio as head coaches, Rex Ryan likely to be one, and Mike Singletary, Donny Henderson, and others as coordinators and other defensive coaches.

The question is, if he was given the opportunity (or should we say, coerced into creating the opportunity by Ozzie and Steve), could he do the same thing with the offense?

Could he find a coordinator whom he could trust to run that side of the ball and call the right plays, while allowing him to keep the head job using his strengths? Whether it's Rick Neuheisel or Chris Foerster in-house, or identifying someone on another team or in college that can create an offense that is run with the same quality as our defense.

It is obvious the Ravens need to make some major changes on offense, although most likely they will wait until the offseason to make any real changes. However, I don't know that we need to throw out everyone, starting with Billick, if he is able to change.

[Sports Guy]

It all starts with Billick.

Can he:

1) Hire a good offensive coordinator?
2) Allow that OC to do what he wants and open up the offense?
3) Allow himself to put his ego aside to do #1 and #2?

The only way he will be able to do this, IMO, is if Bisciotti basically makes him.

[BaltimoreTerp]

It all starts with Billick.

Can he:

1) Hire a good offensive coordinator?
2) Allow that OC to do what he wants and open up the offense?
3) Allow himself to put his ego aside to do #1 and #2?

The only way he will be able to do this, IMO, is if Bisciotti basically makes him.

And if his job is on the line, my guess is he'll be open to the concept when the subject is broached in one of Mr. Bisciotti's "meetings".

[Old#5fan]

Neither. This game today at Buffalo came down to Kyle Boller falling apart as usual on the last three plays of the game. He is the anti-Elway, Montana, Unitas. He flubs every potential game winning drive on the road no matter how bad the competition. Those last three passes were classic Boller at his usual worst. He locks onto his receiver completely oblivious to the defensive lineman well off the line of scrimmage timing his usual low pass ( anyone ever seen a QB who is 6'3" get so many passes knocked down at the LOS:confused: ) and then he throws as absolute horrid pass not even within 10 yards of an open D Williams despite little pressure, and finally he checks down and moves his TD out of pass protection only to throw an absolutely horrible pass off his back foot towards Musa Smith that had zero chance. Yes, Kyle Boller will make any mediocre defense look great on the road. His biggest asset is he can block!

[Hank Scorpio]

Neither. This game today at Buffalo came down to Kyle Boller falling apart as usual on the last three plays of the game. He is the anti-Elway, Montana, Unitas. He flubs every potential game winning drive on the road no matter how bad the competition. Those last three passes were classic Boller at his usual worst. He locks onto his receiver completely oblivious to the defensive lineman well off the line of scrimmage timing his usual low pass ( anyone ever seen a QB who is 6'3" get so many passes knocked down at the LOS:confused: ) and then he throws as absolute horrid pass not even within 10 yards of an open D Williams despite little pressure, and finally he checks down and moves his TD out of pass protection only to throw an absolutely horrible pass off his back foot towards Musa Smith that had zero chance. Yes, Kyle Boller will make any mediocre defense look great on the road. His biggest asset is he can block!

I'll have some of what you're having.

[The Wedge]

I freakin' knew it.

[Hank Scorpio]

I freakin' knew it.

Only that guy could blame that loss on Kyle Boller.

At this point, he's doing it just to get a rise out of us.

[Sports Guy]

Only that guy could blame that loss on Kyle Boller.

At this point, he's doing it just to get a rise out of us.

Nah...He actually thinks he is right and thinks he knows what he is talking about.

Kyle was far from flawless today but he didn't turn the ball over and played well.

I would have liked to have seen Billick call plays better to get that first down and see how he would have done.

[Old#5fan]

Nah...He actually thinks he is right and thinks he knows what he is talking about.

Kyle was far from flawless today but he didn't turn the ball over and played well.

I would have liked to have seen Billick call plays better to get that first down and see how he would have done.

You apparently missed the last three passes Boller attempted which totally undid anything good he may have done all day, as they were classic Boller at his absolute worst! They needed just one yard and what does Boller do? He locks onto his receiver so that the Bill's defensive lineman who was well blocked and no threat to Boller at all merely times his jump and knockes down Boller's pass at the LOS. The next pass with no pressure at all Boller uncorks one of the wildest, most inaccurate throws I have ever seen (even for him and that is saying a lot) where he misses an open D Williams on what could have been a big gain by at least ten yards! Finally on the last play, he audibles at the line of scrimmage for no reason and moves his TE out of pass protection only to attempt an absolutely horrid throw off his back foot to Musa Smith on a play that had zero chance of suceeding. Steve McNair might throw a pick or fumble but he would never, ever, make such a stupid check down on a key play like that which Boller totally bungled both mentally and physically on that play, which simply put, was the game!

[Sports Guy]

You apparently missed the last three passes Boller attempted which totally undid anything good he may have done all day, as they were classic Boller at his absolute worst! They needed just one yard and what does Boller do? He locks onto his receiver so that the Bill's defensive lineman who was well blocked and no threat to Boller at all merely times his jump and knockes down Boller's pass at the LOS. The next pass with no pressure at all Boller uncorks one of the wildest, most inaccurate throws I have ever seen (even for him and that is saying a lot) where he misses an open D Williams on what could have been a big gain by at least ten yards! Finally on the last play, he audibles at the line of scrimmage for no reason and moves his TE out of pass protection only to attempt an absolutely horrid throw off his back foot to Musa Smith on a play that had zero chance of suceeding. Steve McNair might throw a pick or fumble but he would never, ever, make such a stupid check down on a key play like that which Boller totally bungled both mentally and physically on that play, which simply put, was the game!Had to be a miscommunication there....Either Boller or Williams was wrong.

Boller was throwing that laser seam pass well all day today.

Don't you think they should have run it at least once in those 3 plays to ensure the first down???

BTW, the pass to Musa was disgusting but so was the play call there....I thought the third down play he was pressured and had to get rid of it...Not sure, don't remember.

[Hank Scorpio]

You apparently missed the last three passes Boller attempted which totally undid anything good he may have done all day, as they were classic Boller at his absolute worst! They needed just one yard and what does Boller do? He locks onto his receiver so that the Bill's defensive lineman who was well blocked and no threat to Boller at all merely times his jump and knockes down Boller's pass at the LOS. The next pass with no pressure at all Boller uncorks one of the wildest, most inaccurate throws I have ever seen (even for him and that is saying a lot) where he misses an open D Williams on what could have been a big gain by at least ten yards! Finally on the last play, he audibles at the line of scrimmage for no reason and moves his TE out of pass protection only to attempt an absolutely horrid throw off his back foot to Musa Smith on a play that had zero chance of suceeding. Steve McNair might throw a pick or fumble but he would never, ever, make such a stupid check down on a key play like that which Boller totally bungled both mentally and physically on that play, which simply put, was the game!

You can't honestly believe what you're spouting, can you???

Seriously?

[Old#5fan]

Had to be a miscommunication there....Either Boller or Williams was wrong.

Boller was throwing that laser seam pass well all day today.

Don't you think they should have run it at least once in those 3 plays to ensure the first down???

BTW, the pass to Musa was disgusting but so was the play call there....I thought the third down play he was pressured and had to get rid of it...Not sure, don't remember.

I heard that Boller checked down on that last play and he was the one who made that boneheaded play call! Bulldog said it on the Marty Bass show. He said that was inexcusably stupid and McNair would never lose a game by making such a stupid checkdown. I would have tried to run it on third down but that play to Williams looked open but Boller just fell apart and made a horrible throw that wasn't even 10 yards proximity to Williams.

[Old#5fan]

You can't honestly believe what you're spouting, can you???

Seriously?

Its the spot on truth. I have been watching the NFL since 1964. I guarantee you Boller is a horrible NFL QB. He is not starting quality. EVerything I posted I stand by as irrefutably correct. I am not the only one who thought that. On the Marty Bass Ravens Report show Bulldog also said the same thing. Believe me, Bulldog knows what he is talking about. He's much smarter than Marty, and some of those other goofballs on the show.

[Sports Guy]

I heard that Boller checked down on that last play and he was the one who made that boneheaded play call! Bulldog said it on the Marty Bass show. He said that was inexcusably stupid and McNair would never lose a game by making such a stupid checkdown. I would have tried to run it on third down but that play to Williams looked open but Boller just fell apart and made a horrible throw that wasn't even 10 yards proximity to Williams.
Again, had to be miscommunication.

Williams went in and Boller threw out...Someone was wrong there.

Still, no excuse for not running it at least once there.

[Hank Scorpio]

Its the spot on truth. I have been watching the NFL since 1964. I guarantee you Boller is a horrible NFL QB. He is not starting quality. EVerything I posted I stand by as irrefutably correct. I am not the only one who thought that. On the Marty Bass Ravens Report show Bulldog also said the same thing. Believe me, Bulldog knows what he is talking about. He's much smarter than Marty, and some of those other goofballs on the show.

You don't have to validate Damon's football knowledge. I know the man fairly well, but thank you for that.

His name is Damon, by the way. :rolleyes:

Since you're not local, I will call Damon on your behalf tomorrow during his show (10am - 1pm on WJFK in Baltimore) and ask him if Kyle Boller was the reason they lost that game.

That's what you're saying, right? Just don't want there to be an miscommunication or anything...

[Sports Guy]

Its the spot on truth. I have been watching the NFL since 1964. I guarantee you Boller is a horrible NFL QB. He is not starting quality. EVerything I posted I stand by as irrefutably correct. I am not the only one who thought that. On the Marty Bass Ravens Report show Bulldog also said the same thing. Believe me, Bulldog knows what he is talking about. He's much smarter than Marty, and some of those other goofballs on the show.


You are basing everything you say off of what some moron mouthpiece says? LOL

The guy thought Jim Duquette was the freakin second coming as ML GMs.

Here is what PReston, someone much more knowledgable than Bulldog said in his report card:


Quarterback: C

Kyle Boller made some really good throws downfield, but he also misfired on quite a few, including a swing pass in the left flat. Boller needs to watch film of Steve McNair sidestepping the rush. Boller just panics, and the feet start getting nervous.


I think that is an accurate assessment.

Boller didn't lose this game today and anyone who thinks he did is clueless.

THis loss is much more on the shoulders of injuries, the defense in the 3rd quarter and Billick's play calling late in the game.

[Hank Scorpio]

Again, had to be miscommunication.

Williams went in and Boller threw out...Someone was wrong there.

Still, no excuse for not running it at least once there.

How could it be anyone's fault but Boller's? :rolleyes:

[Hank Scorpio]

THis loss is much more on the shoulders of injuries, the defense in the 3rd quarter and Billick's play calling late in the game.

I would agree with this statement.

[Old#5fan]

You don't have to validate Damon's football knowledge. I know the man fairly well, but thank you for that.

His name is Damon, by the way. :rolleyes:

Since you're not local, I will call Damon on your behalf tomorrow during his show (10am - 1pm on WJFK in Baltimore) and ask him if Kyle Boller was the reason they lost that game.

That's what you're saying, right? Just don't want there to be an miscommunication or anything...

I don't think he said he was the only reason, but he said he didn't want him starting at QB for the Ravens and that McNair would have won that game. He also said that Boller was horrible on those last three passes, and McNair would have never lost the game like Boller did by checking down on that last play. He essentially crucified Boller on that last series of plays. What I really thought was good was he said that he would take a 75% healthy McNair anyday over a 100% healthy Boller. He said that McNair is better than Boller by a wide, WIDE margin. (I agree with that and find it to be spot on, but I didn't need the Buffalo game to know it).

[Sports Guy]

I don't think he said he was the only reason, but he said he didn't want him starting at QB for the Ravens and that McNair would have won that game. He also said that Boller was horrible on those last three passes, and McNair would have never lost the game like Boller did by checking down on that last play. He essentially crucified Boller on that last series of plays.

Well anyone not crucifying Billick there is just wrong.

And, on top of that, Yaffe has no idea if the Williams play was a bad throw or if there was miscommunication...In other words, he was talking out of his ass.

[Hank Scorpio]

I don't think he said he was the only reason, but he said he didn't want him starting at QB for the Ravens and that McNair would have won that game. He also said that Boller was horrible on those last three passes, and McNair would have never lost the game like Boller did by checking down on that last play. He essentially crucified Boller on that last series of plays. What I really thought was good was he said that he would take a 75% healthy McNair anyday over a 100% healthy Boller. He said that McNair is better than Boller by a wide, WIDE margin. (I agree with that and find it to be spot on).

What'd he say about the 3rd and 4th down conversions, including the touchdown throw to Mason in the seam between the linebacker and the safety? What'd he say about the block on the McGahee run?

You can place this loss at the feet of the defense, who couldn't tackle at all and allowed some guy named Trent Edwards to move the ball between the 20's all day long. Check the time of possession in the first half. Check the ridiculous repetitive offsides calls against us. Check the undisciplined play by the defense ALL GAME LONG.

Yes, Buffalo's defense isn't great. Guess what? Their offense is arguably WORSE and our defense is supposed to be "good." They looked bad today. The offense was nothing to do cartwheels about, but just as I won't blame Ray Lewis solely for the defensive lapses, I certainly wouldn't blame Kyle Boller for the offensive lapses.

You do whatever makes you feel good.

[Old#5fan]

What'd he say about the 3rd and 4th down conversions, including the touchdown throw to Mason in the seam between the linebacker and the safety? What'd he say about the block on the McGahee run?

You can place this loss at the feet of the defense, who couldn't tackle at all and allowed some guy named Trent Edwards to move the ball between the 20's all day long. Check the time of possession in the first half. Check the ridiculous offsides calls against us. Check the undisciplined play by the defense ALL GAME LONG.

Yes, Buffalo's defense isn't great. Guess what? Their offense is arguably WORSE and our defense is supposed to be "good." They looked bad today. The offense was nothing to do cartwheels about, but just as I won't blame Ray Lewis solely for the defensive lapses, I certainly wouldn't blame Kyle Boller for the offensive lapses.

You do whatever makes you feel good.

Boller did nothing in the first half. He couldn't even get the team down the field into FG range. He did throw a nice block on that nice TD run by Willis early in the second half, however, he really isn't being paid to block. He also made a heck of a nice throw to Mason on fourth and goal but law of averages would seem to indicate that eventually based on the number of shots inside the red zone that he would finally hit something. Heck, Boomer Eaisason was ridiculing the QB play of the Ravens today by saying why can't they at least thow a TD pass just once-its not that difficult. (That was before Boller finally did so). Anyway, the game was there on a silver platter for Boller to win and he not only didn't do it, he looke absolutely horrible on those last three pass plays.

[Sports Guy]

Boller did nothing in the first half. He couldn't even get the team down the field into FG range. He did throw a nice block on that nice TD run by Willis early in the second half, however, he really isn't being paid to block. He also made a heck of a nice throw to Mason on fourth and goal but law of averages would seem to indicate that eventually based on the number of shots inside the red zone that he would finally hit something. Heck, Boomer Eaisason was ridiculing the QB play of the Ravens today by saying why can't they at least thow a TD pass just once-its not that difficult. (That was before Boller finally did so). Anyway, the game was there on a silver platter for Boller to win and he not only didn't do it, he looke absolutely horrible on those last three pass plays.

You need to remember that:

1) Boomer hates the Ravens and always picks against them
2) McNair is included in that rant

[Hank Scorpio]

Boller did nothing in the first half. He couldn't even get the team down the field into FG range. He did throw a nice block on that nice TD run by Willis early in the second half, however, he really isn't being paid to block. He also made a heck of a nice throw to Mason on fourth and goal but law of averages would seem to indicate that eventually based on the number of shots inside the red zone that he would finally hit something. Heck, Boomer Eaisason was ridiculing the QB play of the Ravens today by saying why can't they at least thow a TD pass just once-its not that difficult. (That was before Boller finally did so). Anyway, the game was there on a silver platter for Boller to win and he not only didn't do it, he looke absolutely horrible on those last three pass plays.

You discount everything we did horribly and inexcusably on the defensive side of the ball.

Why is that?

I'll say it AGAIN.

Quarterbacks get entirely too much credit / blame for wins and losses in the NFL. I thought someone so knowledgeable about football would at least acknowledge this fact... I say "fact" because that's what it is. It's a fact.

To lay the blame for this loss at Kyle Boller's feet is laughable. It's laughable! Did he steal your prom date or something????

[Old#5fan]

You need to remember that:

1) Boomer hates the Ravens and always picks against them
2) McNair is included in that rant

True, but I thought he actually praised Boller after the Jets game didn't he? Nobody is praising Boller now. He simply doesn't get it done on the road and nothing has changed with him.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I would like to thank the loser who destroyed a legitimate thread with his inflammatory bullsh*t, and the morons who are goading him on by not simply ignoring him.

Someone please delete this thread so I can repost it and maybe get some real responses.

[Old#5fan]

You discount everything we did horribly and inexcusably on the defensive side of the ball.

Why is that?

I'll say it AGAIN.

Quarterbacks get entirely too much credit / blame for wins and losses in the NFL. I thought someone so knowledgeable about football would at least acknowledge this fact... I say "fact" because that's what it is. It's a fact.

To lay the blame for this loss at Kyle Boller's feet is laughable. It's laughable! Did he steal your prom date or something????

No, coaches get entirely too much credit/blame for wins. A quarterback is the one player who can singlehandely win or lose more games for his team than any one player on any team in any sport. He is that important. I have heard Don Shula say this many times. I don't know where you are coming up with your baloney that a QB isn't that important. Nobody knowlegeable about the NFL would ever state that because it is so wrong it isn't funny. I am finished responding to you. You need to learn more about the game before making totally off base and unsupported comments that show you lack the basic understanding of it.

[ScottieBaseball]

I would like to thank the loser who destroyed a legitimate thread with his inflammatory bullsh*t, and the morons who are goading him on by not simply ignoring him.

Someone please delete this thread so I can repost it and maybe get some real responses.

It's his opinion, B-Terp. There's nothing inflammatory about it. He didn't attack anyone and is supporting his position.

Yours seems to be the only off-topic post in the entire thread.

[clapdiddy]

I'll respond, BTerp! :)

Billick needs to be fired as the offensive coordinator. He got something out of this team last year, but I think its time for him to move back into being just the head coach.

This team is terrible at time management, gets too many stupid penalties, and has little creativity on the offensive side of the ball. I think Billick needs to concentrate on getting this team firing on all cylinders, and not just on the offensive side of the ball.

[Sports Guy]

No, coaches get entirely too much credit/blame for wins. A quarterback is the one player who can singlehandely win or lose more games for his team than any one player on any team in any sport. He is that important. I have heard Don Shula say this many times. I don't know where you are coming up with your baloney that a QB isn't that important. Nobody knowlegeable about the NFL would ever state that because it is so wrong it isn't funny. I am finished responding to you. You need to learn more about the game before making totally off base and unsupported comments that show you lack the basic understanding of it.
No player in football can singlehandedly lose anything....It is almost impossible.

If you think Boller is the reason we lost today, you show that you have no clue as to what you were watching.

[Hank Scorpio]

No player in football can singlehandedly lose anything....It is almost impossible.

If you think Boller is the reason we lost today, you show that you have no clue as to what you were watching.

But, he's been watching football longer than we've been ALIVE!!!! :rolleyes:

[Hank Scorpio]

No, coaches get entirely too much credit/blame for wins. A quarterback is the one player who can singlehandely win or lose more games for his team than any one player on any team in any sport. He is that important. I have heard Don Shula say this many times. I don't know where you are coming up with your baloney that a QB isn't that important. Nobody knowlegeable about the NFL would ever state that because it is so wrong it isn't funny. I am finished responding to you. You need to learn more about the game before making totally off base and unsupported comments that show you lack the basic understanding of it.

You are straight comedy.

[BaltimoreTerp]

It's his opinion, B-Terp. There's nothing inflammatory about it. He didn't attack anyone and is supporting his position.

Yours seems to be the only off-topic post in the entire thread.

You're right. In a thread that is trying to talk about Brian Billick and whether he should be fired completely or just as head coach, bringing up a completely new topic (Kyle Boller) is not off-topic. I must have to retake Message Board 101.

If he wants to start his own "Kyle Boller is Miguel Tejada in disguise" thread, let him. I'll even stay out of it. But what he did is trolling.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I'll respond, BTerp! :)

Billick needs to be fired as the offensive coordinator. He got something out of this team last year, but I think its time for him to move back into being just the head coach.

This team is terrible at time management, gets too many stupid penalties, and has little creativity on the offensive side of the ball. I think Billick needs to concentrate on getting this team firing on all cylinders, and not just on the offensive side of the ball.

Thank you.

I think the time-management issue comes back to the offensive issue and running the wrong plays at the wrong times.

[Hank Scorpio]

I think Billick has his moments, but the fact of the matter is that the biggest problem with this team right now are the injuries, plain and simple. Obviously that is no excuse as all teams pile up the injuries, but we are simply behind the 8 ball.

Hard to make a good play call with 3 rookies on your offensive line, your backup QB in the game and your best receiver on the bench.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I think Billick has his moments, but the fact of the matter is that the biggest problem with this team right now are the injuries, plain and simple. Obviously that is no excuse as all teams pile up the injuries, but we are simply behind the 8 ball.

Hard to make a good play call with 3 rookies on your offensive line, your backup QB in the game and your best receiver on the bench.

Not when you have three tries to get one yard.

[Hank Scorpio]

Not when you have three tries to get one yard.

Oh, no doubt. That was horrible.

The team had a bad day.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Oh, no doubt. That was horrible.

The team had a bad day.

I want to believe that, but after a while there are too many "bad days".

I'm honestly not sure he was an offensive genius in the first place (not a knock on him since, like I mentioned earlier, that was a media-granted title). That doesn't mean he can't run an offense, nor that he isn't a good coach, but that whatever he is doing is obviously not working.

[longflyball]

Neither. This game today at Buffalo came down to Kyle Boller falling apart as usual on the last three plays of the game. He is the anti-Elway, Montana, Unitas. He flubs every potential game winning drive on the road no matter how bad the competition. Those last three passes were classic Boller at his usual worst. He locks onto his receiver completely oblivious to the defensive lineman well off the line of scrimmage timing his usual low pass ( anyone ever seen a QB who is 6'3" get so many passes knocked down at the LOS:confused: ) and then he throws as absolute horrid pass not even within 10 yards of an open D Williams despite little pressure, and finally he checks down and moves his TD out of pass protection only to throw an absolutely horrible pass off his back foot towards Musa Smith that had zero chance. Yes, Kyle Boller will make any mediocre defense look great on the road. His biggest asset is he can block!

This thread is about the coach that needed one yard and called three pass plays, knowing that he has a substandard quarterback. And you come on here and whine about the quarterback who couldn't execute the plays. This thread is dedicated to investigating one of the reasons we lose that does not involve Kyle Boller: Brian Billick. If you want to engage in your obsessive and maniacal rantings about Kyle Boller, start another thread.

I don't understand why people on this board enter into discussion with Old#5fan. He lays the same trap in every thread, and in every thread people walk right into it.

[Tony-OH]

But, he's been watching football longer than we've been ALIVE!!!! :rolleyes:

And he has, so what's wrong with that? Waching football closely over a number years actually does gives someone experience in comparing players. Does it mean his opinion is right and irreputable? Absoultely not. But I'm not sure why his opinions seem to bother some people so much. I've nailed him several times with not putting in those comments like, "this is the irreputable truth", but seriously, it gets old that some people seem to think his comments have no merit. He makes some good points. I don't always agree with him, and in fact, I don't agree with his latest Boller rant even though I basically agree with a lot of what he said about Boller, but there is nothing wrong with listening to someone who has seen centuries of NFL football.

Now, to the topic. Everyone knows I'm not a Billick supporter and would like to see him go. At the very least, I'd like to see him stripped of all offensive coordinator duties and forced to take on a real O-coordinator who's allowed to bring in his own plays and schemes. If he doesn't want to do this, thanks for the memories (some) Billick, off you go now.

[Tony-OH]

By the way, ths was posted in response to a blog on the Sun. I think it's spot on:


1) . What can the Ravens do to improve offensively?

In all honesty, the Ravens, as an organization, have had 9 years under Billick without a viable offense...what can you expect to change in the next 2 weeks?

He's got nobody left to blame it own, no more pawns to sacrifice to deflect responsibility...its always been him and 'his' offense...and its a poorly conceived...and executed offense.

Last year it was Fassel's play-calling...before that it was Cavanaugh.

Yet, the only constants are Billick and his schemes.

Yes, they are missing a few people...but the team's track record doesn't show them being much better even with the injured players in the lineup.

He's changed coordinators, called the plays himself, changed QB's, coaches, RB's, receivers and linemen.

He runs more plays where one of his receivers stays on the line of scrimmage and is thrown to than any team I've ever seen...his RB's run nothing but 1-2 yard diagonal routes to the sidelines and the WR's consistently catch passes 5 yards short of 1st down markers.

The real shame is that the team has some talent at WR, but its terribly misused.

Lets not forget that they faced THE worst defense in the NFL today...

2. Did the coaching staff do a poor job of having this team prepared?

A better question would be does the coaching staff prepare the team to play or do they all just sit around and play cards all week?

Are we seeing the letdown from the rest of the staff and parts of the team that having to constantly deal with Billick and his ego causes?

Today was the 5th time in 7 games the Ravens had double-digits in penalties!!!

They are not 'aggressive' penalties, they are simple "these should have stopped before preseason was over" penalties...today 4 defensive offsides (to a ROOKIE QB's cadence?), and back-to-back false starts (how many of them have they had this year...can anybody count to three?)

These are the results of not being mentally prepared or focused...and that is Billick's main, #1 job every week and the one he has failed at with the same consistency that his offense has failed this year...they have not looked really ready to play in ANY game.

Why is that? He bragged early what a great preseason camp they had...despite their play looking exactly like this all preseason except the first game...in other words, one of two things is happening...either Billick cannot read his team or he's not telling the truth.

3. Where do you see the Ravens at this point in the season?
4. What's next?

I see no major recovery and predict at best an 8-8 or 9-7 finish and no playoffs...nor do they deserve to be in the playoffs.

It may be best for the organization that they take this season on the chin, because it will show beyond all reasonable doubt that a) they have sufficient talent b) they are way too undisciplined c) they are unprepared to play in too many games under Billick d) the offensive problems are directly traced to Billick and his 'system' e) the defense is tired of carrying Billick and e) the Super Bowl victory honeymoon Billick has enjoyed is not deserved.

The Ravens didn't win a Super Bowl for the current owner, and I would hope that Mr. Biscotti would see through all the hype and realize that they've won far more games in spite of Billick than because of them.

Until that happens, we will continue to see too many performances like we've witnessed this year.

[Old#5fan]

This thread is about the coach that needed one yard and called three pass plays, knowing that he has a substandard quarterback. And you come on here and whine about the quarterback who couldn't execute the plays. This thread is dedicated to investigating one of the reasons we lose that does not involve Kyle Boller: Brian Billick. If you want to engage in your obsessive and maniacal rantings about Kyle Boller, start another thread.

I don't understand why people on this board enter into discussion with Old#5fan. He lays the same trap in every thread, and in every thread people walk right into it.

Okay, I will change the way I am responding here so as to not be accused of being off the topic or changing the thread topic. I do not think that Billick in any manner lost this game. I certainly do not blame Billick for the last three pass plays because I think Boller had the ability to check down to a running play but to do so would have been stupid, as if you watched the plays the Bills were blitzing up the middle so that they would have in all likelihood also stuffed any kind of running play. The key there was for Boller to not panic and hit his hot read. Not only did he fail to do so, he failed miserably looking like a scared rookie in doing so.

I cannot fathom how Brian Billick can be blamed for Boller's inability to excecute basic plays in the clutch that every other NFL QB worth his salt does in every game winning drive?:confused: I guess since Billick gets blamed here by so many does he get credit for McGahee's long TD run ir Boller's nice TD pass to Mason?:rolleyes: This was one game where I though Billick can not be accused of "playing not to lose." I loved the fact he was going for it with 4th and ten and the game on the line. Billick's play calling was fine this game. I actually thought it was one of his best.

Boller was terrible in the final series. and that is where the game was lost on those last three plays. He played an okay game over all but really in the finaly analysis did not come through and he should have been able to do so as Buffalo is not nearly as good defensively as he made them look.

[Hank Scorpio]

And he has, so what's wrong with that? Waching football closely over a number years actually does gives someone experience in comparing players. Does it mean his opinion is right and irreputable? Absoultely not. But I'm not sure why his opinions seem to bother some people so much. I've nailed him several times with not putting in those comments like, "this is the irreputable truth", but seriously, it gets old that some people seem to think his comments have no merit. He makes some good points. I don't always agree with him, and in fact, I don't agree with his latest Boller rant even though I basically agree with a lot of what he said about Boller, but there is nothing wrong with listening to someone who has seen centuries of NFL football.

Now, to the topic. Everyone knows I'm not a Billick supporter and would like to see him go. At the very least, I'd like to see him stripped of all offensive coordinator duties and forced to take on a real O-coordinator who's allowed to bring in his own plays and schemes. If he doesn't want to do this, thanks for the memories (some) Billick, off you go now.

The point is that just because he has watched football for 50 years doesn't mean he knows everything about it, as he repeatedly claims to.

[66-70-83-??]

To answer the question:

Should we fire the head coach, or the offensive coordinator ?

NO WAY ! We are still in contention. There is still time to correct things. There is time for several of the injured players to heal.

Billick is still one of the best head coaches in the NFL, imo.

I didn't see the Buffalo game so I can't comment on it.

But, in general, I don't know if one can claim that the playcalling is the issue anymore than another can blame "play execution". It doesn't matter what the call is- the players should be able to execute it.

All the plays are coming out of their own playbook which they are familiar with. These are the plays that they practice.

What makes you think they would execute the plays "you" would call any better than the ones that Billick (or Neuheisel) call ?

At the end of the day it really doesnt matter whether it was the playcalling or the players poor execution- results matter.

If Billick is going to be fired for the results- he probably wants as much control over that so I don't think Billick will relinguish playcalling anytime soon. At least not now at 4-3. The last time (Fassel) almost did get him fired.

[The Wedge]

We were still in contention last year when we jettisoned Fossel. That seemed to work okay.

[66-70-83-??]

Thank you.

I think the time-management issue comes back to the offensive issue and running the wrong plays at the wrong times.

So, the opponent's defense never gets any credit ? :confused:

There is still a lot of football left to be played.

We are still a good football team with the chance to be really good.

Let's get some more of the players healthy over the bye week and see what happens.

The defense needs to play better too.

[NewMarketSean]

Neither. This game today at Buffalo came down to Kyle Boller falling apart as usual on the last three plays of the game. He is the anti-Elway, Montana, Unitas. He flubs every potential game winning drive on the road no matter how bad the competition. Those last three passes were classic Boller at his usual worst. He locks onto his receiver completely oblivious to the defensive lineman well off the line of scrimmage timing his usual low pass ( anyone ever seen a QB who is 6'3" get so many passes knocked down at the LOS:confused: ) and then he throws as absolute horrid pass not even within 10 yards of an open D Williams despite little pressure, and finally he checks down and moves his TD out of pass protection only to throw an absolutely horrible pass off his back foot towards Musa Smith that had zero chance. Yes, Kyle Boller will make any mediocre defense look great on the road. His biggest asset is he can block!

Wow. Just wow. If there is one thing that can be said about you it's that you're at least consistent.

[The Wedge]

So, the opponent's defense never gets any credit ? :confused:


At times, sure. But at the end of the game, that play calling was some of the stupidest over thinking BS play calling I think I've ever seen. 2nd and 1 and you pass it three straight times?

To quote a bad movie, said in a sarcastic tone in a response to "how about scrambling?" " oh that's great, how about a quick kick?"

[NewMarketSean]

Anyway, back on the subject at hand, if you fire the OC part of Billick, that requires Biscotti to have yet ANOTHER meeting with Billick where he is demanding that he change to save his job, and I don't believe that is good business. When you've gone to a person, asked them to change, they have, and there is another thing that you don't like about them that comes up, you just have to let the guy go and move on. I think Billick's time here is done if he misses the playoffs again.

[The Wedge]

Anyway, back on the subject at hand, if you fire the OC part of Billick, that requires Biscotti to have yet ANOTHER meeting with Billick where he is demanding that he change to save his job, and I don't believe that is good business. When you've gone to a person, asked them to change, they have, and there is another thing that you don't like about them that comes up, you just have to let the guy go and move on. I think Billick's time here is done if he misses the playoffs again.

I think his time might be over if he makes the playoffs but one and dones again.

[Old#5fan]

The point is that just because he has watched football for 50 years doesn't mean he knows everything about it, as he repeatedly claims to.

Please show me where I have ever done so in any of my posts? I will tell you that you cannot because what you espouse is simply not true, and an example of you falsely interpreting my posts somehow.

[Old#5fan]

At times, sure. But at the end of the game, that play calling was some of the stupidest over thinking BS play calling I think I've ever seen. 2nd and 1 and you pass it three straight times?

To quote a bad movie, said in a sarcastic tone in a response to "how about scrambling?" " oh that's great, how about a quick kick?"

If you actually watched the game you should have seen that the Bills were blitzing right up the middle. To call a running play there would have resulted in a big loss as there were too many defensive players for the OL to block. Hence, the play was on the shoulders of the Ravens QB to make his hot read and get rid of the ball. I cannot imagine anyone thinking a running play would have worked there under that type of blitz. A screen pass would have been an ideal call but Boller cannot execute one without telegraphing his throw.

[Sports Guy]

And he has, so what's wrong with that? Waching football closely over a number years actually does gives someone experience in comparing players. Does it mean his opinion is right and irreputable? Absoultely not. But I'm not sure why his opinions seem to bother some people so much. I've nailed him several times with not putting in those comments like, "this is the irreputable truth", but seriously, it gets old that some people seem to think his comments have no merit. He makes some good points. I don't always agree with him, and in fact, I don't agree with his latest Boller rant even though I basically agree with a lot of what he said about Boller, but there is nothing wrong with listening to someone who has seen centuries of NFL football.

.

Tony, if his opinion weren't so biased, maybe he would get respected.

Anyone who has watched football for 40+ years should know these things about football in general and yesterday's game:

1) One player is not solely responsible for losing a game in football.
2) The Ravens defense played poorly yesterday
3) Billick's play calling was bad late in the game
4) The O-line is inconsistent right now
5) Injuries are killing this team
6) Boller didn't play poorly yesterday...No TOs.

Someone with his "vast football knowledge" should mention items 2-5 there but there hasn't been a mention of it. Someone of his "football intelligence" should acknowledge that the TEAM lost yesterday because of items 2-5.

He isn't doing that so basically, all he is doing is trolling and just wants to bash Boller...It doesn't take someone to watch football for 40 years to do that.

[Hank Scorpio]

Please show me where I have ever done so in any of my posts? I will tell you that you cannot because what you espouse is simply not true, and an example of you falsely interpreting my posts somehow.

How's this?


Its the spot on truth. I have been watching the NFL since 1964. I guarantee you Boller is a horrible NFL QB. He is not starting quality. EVerything I posted I stand by as irrefutably correct.

That's about as close as it gets.

[Old#5fan]

Tony, if his opinion weren't so biased, maybe he would get respected.

Anyone who has watched football for 40+ years should know these things about football in general and yesterday's game:

1) One player is not solely responsible for losing a game in football.
2) The Ravens defense played poorly yesterday
3) Billick's play calling was bad late in the game
4) The O-line is inconsistent right now
5) Injuries are killing this team
6) Boller didn't play poorly yesterday...No TOs.

Someone with his "vast football knowledge" should mention items 2-5 there but there hasn't been a mention of it. Someone of his "football intelligence" should acknowledge that the TEAM lost yesterday because of items 2-5.

He isn't doing that so basically, all he is doing is trolling and just wants to bash Boller...It doesn't take someone to watch football for 40 years to do that.

Your number one (1) is totally wrong as is number 3, and 5. Go back and watch a film of superbowl III if you believe one player cannot lose a game and view Earl Morrall in action. His individual performance was so poor that game and so out of character for an NFL MVP that season that many to this day believe he may have been either bought off or had his family threatened by the Mob to throw that game. One player can easily lose any game, especially if he is the QB and plays poorly. I don't know where you would come up with that gem but it is totally wrong beyond description! :eek: :confused: I also thing you are wrong about Billick's play calling. That was actually one of the best games he has called all year. He finally broke out of that playing not to lose mantra and he made some gutsy and correct fourth down calls.

That last throw by Boller was a check down by the road warrior Kyle and he totally blew it both on the call and the execution. Billick is in no way to blame for that play. A screen play would have worked wonders on that blitz package up the middle but Boller simply cannot execute it properly. No way a run play would have worked with them blitzing right up the middle. There had to be either a hot read to a receiver or a screen to beat the blitz and Boller cannot execute either. Finally, all teams have injuries including the Bills. The Ravens had more talent on both sides of the ball than the Bills and still lost. I don't want to there that lame excuse of injuries. That would only be valid when playing a playoff caliber team which the Bills clearly are not. Your number 6 is also highly debatable. Boller may not have turned the ball over but he didn't step it up and make a basic play against a blitz up the middle which he had to know was coming. This is basic stuff where your QB has to step it up and make a play. You had a rookie on the other side who was running a no huddle who looked better than Boller!

[NewMarketSean]

Your number one (1) is totally wrong as is number 3, and 5. Go back and watch a film of superbowl III if you believe one player cannot lose a game and view Earl Morrall in action. His individual performance was so poor that game and so out of character for an NFL MVP that season that many to this day believe he may have been either bought off or had his family threatened by the Mob to throw that game. One player can easily lose any game, especially if he is the QB and plays poorly. I don't know where you would come up with that gem but it is totally wrong. I also thing you are wrong about Billick's play calling. That was actually one of the best games he has called all year. He finally broke out of that playing not to lose mantra and he made some gutsy and correct fourth down calls. That last throw by Boller was a check down by the road warrior Kyle and he totally blew it both on the call and the execution. Billick is in no way to blame for that play. A screen play would have worked wonders on that blitz package up the middle but Boller simply cannot execute it properly. No way a run play would have worked with them blitzing right up the middle. There had to be either a hot read to a receiver or a screen to beat the blitz and Boller cannot execute either. Finally, all teams have injuries including the Bills. The Ravens had more talent on both sides of the ball than the Bills and still lost. I don't want to there that lame excuse of injuries. That would only be valid when playing a playoff caliber team which the Bills clearly are not.

Sorry, I have to come out of my self-imposed ignore of your posts to respond to this one. I knew it wouldn't take long.

Twice Billick has refused to run the ball on ___ and short opportunities late in the game (@ CIN and @ BUF) and twice we have lost because of it. Boller is to blame in this loss, but to ignore the several others that should share in the blame, some more and some less, just contradicts with your 43 years of watching football on TV.

And no one person loses a game. That is a complete falsehood in sports. If it comes down to one person losing a game, that means the rest of the team didn't do what they should/could do to pick up the slack for the person in question. They should have never let the game get down to a situation where one person could lose a game for them.

Obviously, your experience with football (and perhaps sports) is on the couch instead of on the field.

[Old#5fan]

How's this?



That's about as close as it gets.


When it comes to Boller being terrible I think I know what I am talking about. I did not infer, insinuate or even imply that I am irrefutably right about everything else! That would be laughable!:eek: :D

[Hank Scorpio]

Your number one (1) is totally wrong as is number 3, and 5. Go back and watch a film of superbowl III if you believe one player cannot lose a game and view Earl Morrall in action. His individual performance was so poor that game and so out of character for an NFL MVP that season that many to this day believe he may have been either bought off or had his family threatened by the Mob to throw that game. One player can easily lose any game, especially if he is the QB and plays poorly. I don't know where you would come up with that gem but it is totally wrong beyond description! :eek: :confused: I also thing you are wrong about Billick's play calling. That was actually one of the best games he has called all year. He finally broke out of that playing not to lose mantra and he made some gutsy and correct fourth down calls. That last throw by Boller was a check down by the road warrior Kyle and he totally blew it both on the call and the execution. Billick is in no way to blame for that play. A screen play would have worked wonders on that blitz package up the middle but Boller simply cannot execute it properly. No way a run play would have worked with them blitzing right up the middle. There had to be either a hot read to a receiver or a screen to beat the blitz and Boller cannot execute either. Finally, all teams have injuries including the Bills. The Ravens had more talent on both sides of the ball than the Bills and still lost. I don't want to there that lame excuse of injuries. That would only be valid when playing a playoff caliber team which the Bills clearly are not.

What did Early do in that game that was so horrible? Since I wasn't even a zygote at that time, I will have to venture a guess : He turned the ball over too many times.

Is that correct?

2nd and 1....
3rd and 1....
4th and 1....

At least run a little play action. Occupy the linebackers. Give them something to think about. You have 2 minutes and a timeout.

[Old#5fan]

Sorry, I have to come out of my self-imposed ignore of your posts to respond to this one. I knew it wouldn't take long.

Twice Billick has refused to run the ball on ___ and short opportunities late in the game (@ CIN and @ BUF) and twice we have lost because of it. Boller is to blame in this loss, but to ignore the several others that should share in the blame, some more and some less, just contradicts with your 43 years of watching football on TV.

And no one person loses a game. That is a complete falsehood in sports. If it comes down to one person losing a game, that means the rest of the team didn't do what they should/could do to pick up the slack for the person in question. They should have never let the game get down to a situation where one person could lose a game for them.

Obviously, your experience with football (and perhaps sports) is on the couch instead of on the field.

Where do you people come up with the "no one person loses a game nonsense?" That sounds like something a T-ball coach would espouse!:D :rolleyes: You don't think Bill Buckner didn't lose that infamous WS game to the Mets? All he had to do was make a routine play? There are tons of examples where one player in virtually any sport loses a game all by his lonesome just as there are when a player steps it up and wins a game on his own, Michael Jordan being a prime example. Its either called choking or stepping it up in the clutch. I swear, some of the stuff I read on these forums has me scratching my head at where people come up with the stuff they believe! Incredible really.:eek: If you actually believe no one player loses a game than I guess there are no individual heros or goats in sports either! LOL on that concept!:p BTW, I played organized baseball through high school. My son played division II basketball and was a starter all four years with a full scholarship. He was also all-state basket ball his senior year and all county baseball. So don't accuse me of being a Madden-know-it-all.

[NewMarketSean]

Where do you people come up with the "no one person loses a game nonsense?" That sounds like something a T-ball coach would espouse!:D :rolleyes: You don't think Bill Buckner didn't lose that infamous WS game to the Mets? All he had to do was make a routine play? There are tons of examples where one player in virtually any sport loses a game all by his lonesome just as there are when a player steps it up and wins a game on his own, Michael Jordan being a prime example. Its either called choking or stepping it up in the clutch. I swear, some of the stuff I read on these forums has me scratching my head at where people come up with the stuff they believe! Incredible really.:eek: If you actually believe no one player loses a game than I guess there are no individual heros or goats in sports either! LOL on that concept!:p

You obviously don't have any grasp on the concept of "team". Maybe that is what you should focus on in the next 40 years of TV watching, instead of the actions of one player alone.

Whenever a game comes down to one play, it's easy to blame the person who made the error, mistake, whatever. But a good team doesn't allow it to come down to that. But sensible people, ie, people who have 40+ years of sports "experience" should know this. Well, at least people who have played sports.

Buckner's error didn't lose the Red Sox that series. It happened in game 6. The Sox had a chance to beat the Mets in game 7 and they couldn't do it. Buckner's play didn't lose the Red Sox the series in 86. He may have prevented them from winning it, but he didn't lose it for them. Not even if all of the 4 Red Sox losses in the WS that year were like his 0-5, horrible error game 6. There are 24 other players on the team.

[Sports Guy]

Where do you people come up with the "no one person loses a game nonsense?" That sounds like something a T-ball coach would espouse!:D :rolleyes: You don't think Bill Buckner didn't lose that infamous WS game to the Mets? All he had to do was make a routine play? There are tons of examples where one player in virtually any sport loses a game all by his lonesome just as there are when a player steps it up and wins a game on his own, Michael Jordan being a prime example. Its either called choking or stepping it up in the clutch. I swear, some of the stuff I read on these forums has me scratching my head at where people come up with the stuff they believe! Incredible really.:eek: If you actually believe no one player loses a game than I guess there are no individual heros or goats in sports either! LOL on that concept!:p BTW, I played organized baseball through high school. My son played division II basketball and was a starter all four years with a full scholarship. He was also all-state basket ball his senior year and all county baseball. So don't accuse me of being a Madden-know-it-all.

Football is a vastly different sport....Every part has to work well of the end result to be positive. If the o-line breaks down, it kills the passing and running game. If everything works well but Mcgahee doesn't hit the whole, it fails.

Ok, there are a few instances in football when a single person can lose it...Like McNair in week 1....Many unforced turnovers but even then, McNair was pressured a lot and he was hurting, so the coahcing staff hurt him there.

If there is a game when a Rb fumbles 4 times or something like that, one individual can lose it...But normally speaking, individuals can't lose football games and Kyle Boller, WHO DIDN'T TURN THE BALL OVER YESTERDAY, certainly didn't lose it yesterday.

[Hank Scorpio]

Where do you people come up with the "no one person loses a game nonsense?" That sounds like something a T-ball coach would espouse!:D :rolleyes: You don't think Bill Buckner didn't lose that infamous WS game to the Mets? All he had to do was make a routine play? There are tons of examples where one player in virtually any sport loses a game all by his lonesome just as there are when a player steps it up and wins a game on his own, Michael Jordan being a prime example. Its either called choking or stepping it up in the clutch. I swear, some of the stuff I read on these forums has me scratching my head at where people come up with the stuff they believe! Incredible really.:eek: If you actually believe no one player loses a game than I guess there are no individual heros or goats in sports either! LOL on that concept!:p

Hahahaha you said tee ball.

You are forgetting the mantra of this football team.

"Manage the game."

"Don't turn it over."

These are the requirements of the quarterback of the Baltimore Ravens under Brian Billick, unfortunately.

[AgentOrange]

Hahahaha you said tee ball.

You are forgetting the mantra of this football team.

"Manage the game."

"Don't turn it over."

These are the requirements of the quarterback of the Baltimore Ravens under Brian Billick, unfortunately.

Yeah, it seems like they also employ the same mantra on the final drive when we are behind by 5.

[66-70-83-??]

Where do you people come up with the "no one person loses a game nonsense?" That sounds like something a T-ball coach would espouse!:D :rolleyes: You don't think Bill Buckner didn't lose that infamous WS game to the Mets? All he had to do was make a routine play? There are tons of examples where one player in virtually any sport loses a game all by his lonesome just as there are when a player steps it up and wins a game on his own, Michael Jordan being a prime example. Its either called choking or stepping it up in the clutch. I swear, some of the stuff I read on these forums has me scratching my head at where people come up with the stuff they believe! Incredible really.:eek: If you actually believe no one player loses a game than I guess there are no individual heros or goats in sports either! LOL on that concept!:p BTW, I played organized baseball through high school. My son played division II basketball and was a starter all four years with a full scholarship. He was also all-state basket ball his senior year and all county baseball. So don't accuse me of being a Madden-know-it-all.

Why not blame the loss in Game 6 (1986 WS) on Dwight Evans ?

His throwing error led to a run scored in the 5th inning. Without that run- maybe the game doesn't go into extra innings.

Bad plays late in the game do not "lose" the game anymore than bad ones earlier in the game.

Anyone who does/has played a team sport understands that.

[NewMarketSean]

Why not blame the loss in Game 6 (1986 WS) on Dwight Evans ?

His throwing error led to a run scored in the 5th inning. Without that run- maybe the game doesn't go into extra innings.

Bad plays late in the game do not "lose" the game anymore than bad ones earlier in the game.

Anyone who does/has played a team sport understands that.

I think we are beginning to see what OldFan's childhood looked like. There was a lot of TV watching going on, and not a lot of outside time.

[Hank Scorpio]

Yeah, it seems like they also employ the same mantra on the final drive when we are behind by 5.

So it would seem!!!

I dunno, dude.

I'm not an NFL coach. I'm not even a coordinator... but when it's 2nd and 1 with 2 minutes left at midfield and you've got a timeout, and you don't even pretend like you're going to run the ball, I have to say you're doing something wrong.

I don't understand it. Maybe I just need another 20 some years of watching. :D

[AgentOrange]

So it would seem!!!

I dunno, dude.

I'm not an NFL coach. I'm not even a coordinator... but when it's 2nd and 1 with 2 minutes left at midfield and you've got a timeout, and you don't even pretend like you're going to run the ball, I have to say you're doing something wrong.

I don't understand it. Maybe I just need another 20 some years of watching. :D


Seriously, you need to brush up on the amount of years you watch football.

But in reality, the thing that pains me the most is that we had an opportunity to win that game at the end and we blew it. Everyone did, the WRs, the man calling the plays, Boller, the OL. Everyone. It was upsetting.

[Hank Scorpio]

Seriously, you need to brush up on the amount of years you watch football.

But in reality, the thing that pains me the most is that we had an opportunity to win that game at the end and we blew it. Everyone did, the WRs, the man calling the plays, Boller, the OL. Everyone. It was upsetting.

Meh, I guess. I don't really get all that upset about it, either way.

Saturdays are much more entertaining to me than Sundays.

[BaltimoreTerp]

So, the opponent's defense never gets any credit ? :confused:

There is still a lot of football left to be played.

We are still a good football team with the chance to be really good.

Let's get some more of the players healthy over the bye week and see what happens.

The defense needs to play better too.

When you run three straight pass plays on second-and-1, or in goal-line situations when you have several plays to get short yardage (in the Bengals' and other games), you aren't putting your team in a position to succeed. It doesn't matter how you get those yards, just that you get them.

I know we won't see any changes before the offseason. But, we are probably going to have the same complaints in plenty of games left this season. We should be talking about it.

[AgentOrange]

Meh, I guess. I don't really get all that upset about it, either way.

Saturdays are much more entertaining to me than Sundays.

Wow, you really don't get too upset over losses like this?

That is interesting.

I suppose its all about what you like I guess. I don't have anything special on my Saturdays so Sundays are very important...

[Sports Guy]

What has happened to the play calling from last year?

When Billick took over, the play calling was very good...I believe we averaged around 24 ppg after he took over.

But then the Indy game and Billick was scared....And since then, he has been very poor for most of the games.

Now, he was gutsy yesterday going for it on 4th and 10 and things like that and i am glad he did...He needed to and i am glad he recognized that.

But still, it's just not there.

BB the HEAD COACH is great...BB the OC is not....If he will allow an OC to do what he wants and not interfere, Billick can coach here forever....If he won't do that, then Billick may need to go.

[PaulFolk]

Wow, you really don't get too upset over losses like this?

That is interesting.

I suppose its all about what you like I guess. I don't have anything special on my Saturdays so Sundays are very important...
Hey, we're Orioles fans. Maybe we're just numb to losing.

I say the Ravens should tank the rest of the season and secure the highest draft pick possible! :D

[Hank Scorpio]

Wow, you really don't get too upset over losses like this?

That is interesting.

I suppose its all about what you like I guess. I don't have anything special on my Saturdays so Sundays are very important...

I think it has something to do with the ballboy thing. You lose your ability to be a fan, kinda.

[AgentOrange]

I think it has something to do with the ballboy thing. You lose your ability to be a fan, kinda.

I gotcha, we don't get much involvement after the game is over. I suppose since you see more of it, you don't have the same knee jerk reactions most of us do watching.

[Hank Scorpio]

I gotcha, we don't get much involvement after the game is over. I suppose since you see more of it, you don't have the same knee jerk reactions most of us do watching.

I mean, I get annoyed when they play poorly, but I don't really have a vested emotional interest in their making the playoffs. I don't take offense to Steelers fans, nor do I hate the Browns.

Whenever I decide to stop this thing, I'll probably still watch the games and stuff... but I'll never be a tailgating, purple camo-wearing, car flag-putting "fan." I don't think I'll ever be able to go watch a game from the stands.

I like to see the guys do well, but I don't get overly emotional when they don't.

[NewMarketSean]

Football is a vastly different sport....Every part has to work well of the end result to be positive. If the o-line breaks down, it kills the passing and running game. If everything works well but Mcgahee doesn't hit the whole, it fails.

Ok, there are a few instances in football when a single person can lose it...Like McNair in week 1....Many unforced turnovers but even then, McNair was pressured a lot and he was hurting, so the coahcing staff hurt him there.

If there is a game when a Rb fumbles 4 times or something like that, one individual can lose it...But normally speaking, individuals can't lose football games and Kyle Boller, WHO DIDN'T TURN THE BALL OVER YESTERDAY, certainly didn't lose it yesterday.

You shouldn't have to explain something so common knowledge like this to someone who has watched football on TV for 43 years.

[Old#5fan]

Football is a vastly different sport....Every part has to work well of the end result to be positive. If the o-line breaks down, it kills the passing and running game. If everything works well but Mcgahee doesn't hit the whole, it fails.

Ok, there are a few instances in football when a single person can lose it...Like McNair in week 1....Many unforced turnovers but even then, McNair was pressured a lot and he was hurting, so the coahcing staff hurt him there.

If there is a game when a Rb fumbles 4 times or something like that, one individual can lose it...But normally speaking, individuals can't lose football games and Kyle Boller, WHO DIDN'T TURN THE BALL OVER YESTERDAY, certainly didn't lose it yesterday.

While this may be technically correct his ineptitude on the last three plays was as pitiful of a performance to lose a game as I have seen in a long time. He looked totally lost in dealing with pressure coming up the middle which is something a good QB beats 9 times out of 10 and which I doubt Buffalo even tries to do.

[NewMarketSean]

Football is a vastly different sport....Every part has to work well of the end result to be positive. If the o-line breaks down, it kills the passing and running game. If everything works well but Mcgahee doesn't hit the whole, it fails.

Ok, there are a few instances in football when a single person can lose it...Like McNair in week 1....Many unforced turnovers but even then, McNair was pressured a lot and he was hurting, so the coahcing staff hurt him there.

If there is a game when a Rb fumbles 4 times or something like that, one individual can lose it...But normally speaking, individuals can't lose football games and Kyle Boller, WHO DIDN'T TURN THE BALL OVER YESTERDAY, certainly didn't lose it yesterday.

While this may be technically correct his ineptitude on the last three plays was as pitiful of a performance to lose a game as I have seen in a long time. He looked totally lost in dealing with pressure coming up the middle which is something a good QB beats 9 times out of 10 and which I doubt Buffalo even tries to do.

Again, when you are pointing to isolated events in games and blaming the loss on those events or players you are usually over-looking several other instances of why a game is lost.

These are things someone of your TV watching experience level should know. :D

[Sports Guy]

While this may be technically correct his ineptitude on the last three plays was as pitiful of a performance to lose a game as I have seen in a long time. He looked totally lost in dealing with pressure coming up the middle which is something a good QB beats 9 times out of 10 and which I doubt Buffalo even tries to do.

Technically correct? No, it is 100% correct.

As far as the last plays...I love how you continue to say the last 3 plays but don't acknowledge the following:

1) D Williams could have been the problem with one of those passes.
2) That Billick didn't run the ball at least once
3) That each play was Boller in the shotgun...The Bills knew they were passing and they blitzed him knowing that and knowing that the team wasn't do a good job in blitz pickups.
4) Billick didn't roll him out either, which was a poor decision.
5) That even if they had gotten the first down, that it is not a guarantee we win the game.

For you to only talk about the last 3 plays shows that you probably sat there the entire game just waiting for him to do something you didn't like.

And then, in your vast years on knowledge, all you talk about is those 3 plays and what some loud mouthpiece says on a local football show.

Why haven't you commented on the poor defense? The bad tackling? The poor calling? The injuries?

Where is all of that? I mean, since you know so much about football, you should have recognized that these things were worse than Boller yesterday and even if you think he was worse(which is 100% incorrect), you still aren;t acknowledging that those guys played a big part is us losing.

So, why don't you discuss the rest of the game? Why don't you actually put some thought into everything else and attempt to have an actual conversation?

[Mark Carver]

Bruce Laird on WJFK this morning made an interesting observation. In yesterday Patriots game (I didn't see the game, so going by what he said), Tom Brady threw twice, lolly-pop passes to Randy Moss in the end zone, who had double-coverage on him at the time. And yet Moss was able to bring both passes down for TD's. If Kyle Boller had done that it's...

1) bad throws (lolly-pop pass)
2) what is he thinking in throwing to a receiver who has double coverage on him


* And for those not familiar, Bruce Laird played for the Baltimore Colts from 1972 to 1981 as a Safety (1972 Pro Bowl). I am sure he has seen his fair share of NFL games, since he was born in 1950.

[NewMarketSean]

Technically correct? No, it is 100% correct.

As far as the last plays...I love how you continue to say the last 3 plays but don't acknowledge the following:

1) D Williams could have been the problem with one of those passes.
2) That Billick didn't run the ball at least once
3) That each play was Boller in the shotgun...The Bills knew they were passing and they blitzed him knowing that and knowing that the team wasn't do a good job in blitz pickups.
4) Billick didn't roll him out either, which was a poor decision.
5) That even if they had gotten the first down, that it is not a guarantee we win the game.

For you to only talk about the last 3 plays shows that you probably sat there the entire game just waiting for him to do something you didn't like.

And then, in your vast years on knowledge, all you talk about is those 3 plays and what some loud mouthpiece says on a local football show.

Why haven't you commented on the poor defense? The bad tackling? The poor calling? The injuries?

Where is all of that? I mean, since you know so much about football, you should have recognized that these things were worse than Boller yesterday and even if you think he was worse(which is 100% incorrect), you still aren;t acknowledging that those guys played a big part is us losing.

So, why don't you discuss the rest of the game? Why don't you actually put some thought into everything else and attempt to have an actual conversation?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sports Guy again.

Hate it when that happens!

[Sports Guy]

Bruce Laird on WJFK this morning made an interesting observation. In yesterday Patriots game (I didn't see the game, so going by what he said), Tom Brady threw twice, lolly-pop passes to Randy Moss in the end zone, who had double-coverage on him at the time. And yet Moss was able to bring both passes down for TD's. If Kyle Boller had done that it's...

1) bad throws (lolly-pop pass)
2) what is he thinking in throwing to a receiver who has double coverage on him


* And for those not familiar, Bruce Laird played for the Baltimore Colts from 1972 to 1981 as a Safety (1972 Pro Bowl). I am sure he has seen his fair share of NFL games, since he was born in 1950.

Yea....neither of those passes were thrown well but Moss is just so good that he was able to flag them down.

Really, Brady did just do what he needed to but Moss is the only WR in the NFL who catches those in all likelihood.

[NewMarketSean]

Bruce Laird on WJFK this morning made an interesting observation. In yesterday Patriots game (I didn't see the game, so going by what he said), Tom Brady threw twice, lolly-pop passes to Randy Moss in the end zone, who had double-coverage on him at the time. And yet Moss was able to bring both passes down for TD's. If Kyle Boller had done that it's...

1) bad throws (lolly-pop pass)
2) what is he thinking in throwing to a receiver who has double coverage on him


* And for those not familiar, Bruce Laird played for the Baltimore Colts from 1972 to 1981 as a Safety (1972 Pro Bowl). I am sure he has seen his fair share of NFL games, since he was born in 1950.

I brought this up in the Tom Brady thread. I saw those two passes. If Brady is throwing to anyone other than Moss, those two passes are probably not caught and maybe even intercepted. Brady is by far the best QB in the league right now but those 2 passes were pretty bad. Just goes to show you he's got some excellent players on the team. No player wins or loses games alone.

[Sports Guy]

From Preston:


Offensive line: C

The Bills had only one sack, but they smacked Boller around a lot. The Ravens had trouble picking up blitzes up the middle, and there wasn't a lot of room for McGahee to run. Overall, it was a better effort than a week ago.

[Old#5fan]

From Preston:

Any team can have that trouble if the opponent rushes more players than the offense has held in for blockers. Its simple math not rocket science that requires swift and efficient execution by primarily the QB (hint- the guy in charge who can audible and change plays, and also the guy responsible for hitting the hot read or buying time by scrambling or maneuvering in the pocket under such pressure) and which Boller is known to struggle mightily in doing. Anyone who blames that on the blocking just doesn't understand basic NFL Football strategy 101.

[Sports Guy]

Technically correct? No, it is 100% correct.

As far as the last plays...I love how you continue to say the last 3 plays but don't acknowledge the following:

1) D Williams could have been the problem with one of those passes.
2) That Billick didn't run the ball at least once
3) That each play was Boller in the shotgun...The Bills knew they were passing and they blitzed him knowing that and knowing that the team wasn't do a good job in blitz pickups.
4) Billick didn't roll him out either, which was a poor decision.
5) That even if they had gotten the first down, that it is not a guarantee we win the game.

For you to only talk about the last 3 plays shows that you probably sat there the entire game just waiting for him to do something you didn't like.

And then, in your vast years on knowledge, all you talk about is those 3 plays and what some loud mouthpiece says on a local football show.

Why haven't you commented on the poor defense? The bad tackling? The poor calling? The injuries?

Where is all of that? I mean, since you know so much about football, you should have recognized that these things were worse than Boller yesterday and even if you think he was worse(which is 100% incorrect), you still aren;t acknowledging that those guys played a big part is us losing.

So, why don't you discuss the rest of the game? Why don't you actually put some thought into everything else and attempt to have an actual conversation?
I find it funny that OldFan didn't respond to this...Although i am not surprised.

[Sports Guy]

Ron Jaworski on PTI today(speaking about the Rams possibly firing Linehan):


"When you lose football games, it is not about one person...It is about the entire organization".

[mweb]

Of course he should be fired, they apparently have the most talent in the NFL every year, and should be a perennial SB team, yet they haven't won a playoff game in the last 5 years, and have only made the playoffs twice in that span. Seems quite obvious if you believe all that to be true.

But regardless of that, yes, he should go if they fail to make the playoffs this year. Losing him shouldn't hurt the D, which is the main reason the Ravens have had the success they've had under Billick.

[Sports Guy]

* The performance by Kyle Boller, who has shown signs of maturity in his fourth year, and is expected to return to the No. 2 role behind Steve McNair against the Pittsburgh Steelers Nov. 5. "When you look at the film and the circumstances Kyle played with, and the pressure he was under in a number of instances because of the young line, you can't help but come away and feel that Kyle played very well. He made a couple of incredible throws with guys in his face. Not perfect, obviously things could have been better, but he played very, very well in my opinion.''

This is a quote from BB from his press conference today.

Now, i know Billick doesn't have 40+ years of watching football on TV experience but he has been in the game for a long time and may know what he is talking about.

[AgentOrange]

Ron Jaworski on PTI today(speaking about the Rams possibly firing Linehan):

So you think the entire organization is to blame for this then?

[Sports Guy]

So you think the entire organization is to blame for this then?

You don't?

I assume Jaws isn't talking about the marketing department, just the people that prepare for the game....Whether it be players or coaches.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

[AgentOrange]

You don't?

I assume Jaws isn't talking about the marketing department, just the people that prepare for the game....Whether it be players or coaches.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

No, I don't.

So let me get this straight, you think that the Ravens starting off poorly has anything to do with Ozzie Newsome?

[Sports Guy]

No, I don't.

So let me get this straight, you think that the Ravens starting off poorly has anything to do with Ozzie Newsome?

Kind of...Only kind of because of the lack of depth in the secondary, which we have needed.

Ivy is ok but they need a better 3rd corner than him.

Guys like Prude and Pittman haven't developed.

That is probably the only strike against Ozzie for this year and it may not have been possible for him to do anything about that anyway(cause of the cap).

EDIT: BTW, this may not be fair because i am not sure how many teams have a better #3 corner than Ivy is. I know the Skins do but i am not sure who else.

[AgentOrange]

Kind of...Only kind of because of the lack of depth in the secondary, which we have needed.

Ivy is ok but they need a better 3rd corner than him.

Guys like Prude and Pittman haven't developed.

That is probably the only strike against Ozzie for this year and it may not have been possible for him to do anything about that anyway(cause of the cap).

Listen, I understand what you saying and football is a team game.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind the quote from Jaws. Is this about the people piling onto Boller, Billick or both?

[Sports Guy]

Listen, I understand what you saying and football is a team game.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind the quote from Jaws. Is this about the people piling onto Boller, Billick or both?

It is about Old Fan essentially placing all the blame on Boller...It is idiotic.

Just showing another national opinion showing him how stupid he sounds.

[The Wedge]

Listen, I understand what you saying and football is a team game.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind the quote from Jaws. Is this about the people piling onto Boller, Billick or both?

Probably both, if I read it correctly. It's saying it's a mixture of the whole mess.

[Hank Scorpio]

So you think the entire organization is to blame for this then?

As much as it sucks to say this, most of the blame falls on bad luck.

It all comes down to being healthy for this team. When we're healthy, we're pretty good - probably the 4th or 5th best team in the AFC.

When we're not healthy, we aren't very good.

Football is one of those games where you can have it all laid out on paper, be completely rolling along, and then things just go to complete S in like 3 hours.

[NewMarketSean]

Listen, I understand what you saying and football is a team game.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind the quote from Jaws. Is this about the people piling onto Boller, Billick or both?

I can't believe that an Orioles fan couldn't understand this line of reasoning. When you are losing games, like the Rams and Orioles are doing, it's not just one person, or a few people. It's everyone.

How hard is that to understand?

Now the Ravens are clearly doing some things right because they are still 4-3 this year and came off a 13-3 season last year. They've also won the SB within the last 10 years and are still one of the most respected front offices in the NFL. But there are definitely issues with this organization that run way, way, way, way deeper than just Kyle Boller. And to say anything different means that you don't know what you're talking about.

Newsome has failed to consistently draft quality players on offense, something he has done for years on the defensive side of the ball. Add to that he's avoided improving the team through FA. He's done a lot of good things, don't get me wrong, but we can definitely question some of his moves as well.

The stuff surrounding Billick has been well documented so I won't get into that again.

Then it comes down to injuries, and then at the very end of the list is the quality of players we have, and that is where "it's all Boller's fault" can come into play.

But the bottom line is that he is at the end of a decent sized list of problems with the Ravens.

[MikeAD]

Kind of...Only kind of because of the lack of depth in the secondary, which we have needed.

Ivy is ok but they need a better 3rd corner than him.

Guys like Prude and Pittman haven't developed.

That is probably the only strike against Ozzie for this year and it may not have been possible for him to do anything about that anyway(cause of the cap).

EDIT: BTW, this may not be fair because i am not sure how many teams have a better #3 corner than Ivy is. I know the Skins do but i am not sure who else.

Not arguing, but Pitt may have a better 3rd CB that the Ravens in Rossum/McFadden, but thats beside the point.

I really don't know why we haven't seen guys like Martin, Pittman and Prude involved more (or even trying Winborne or Sapp at CB) just for the sheer fact that Ivy can't be as effective if he is required to see the majority of plays on the field. They need to mix it up some because it isn't working.

Hopefully this is a mute point when we are healthy in week 9.

[Sports Guy]

Not arguing, but Pitt may have a better 3rd CB that the Ravens in Rossum/McFadden, but thats beside the point.

I really don't know why we haven't seen guys like Martin, Pittman and Prude involved more (or even trying Winborne or Sapp at CB) just for the sheer fact that Ivy can't be as effective if he is required to see the majority of plays on the field. They need to mix it up some because it isn't working.

Hopefully this is a mute point when we are healthy in week 9.

I think Pittman is hurt.

I thought they were starting to like him but he never plays.

[The Wedge]

Oh, wow, I just heard Ray Lewis' comments on the 3 passes for one yard debacle, from his show last night. Wow. He came just short of calling Billick an idiot.

[Sports Guy]

I can't believe that an Orioles fan couldn't understand this line of reasoning. When you are losing games, like the Rams and Orioles are doing, it's not just one person, or a few people. It's everyone.

How hard is that to understand?

Now the Ravens are clearly doing some things right because they are still 4-3 this year and came off a 13-3 season last year. They've also won the SB within the last 10 years and are still one of the most respected front offices in the NFL. But there are definitely issues with this organization that run way, way, way, way deeper than just Kyle Boller. And to say anything different means that you don't know what you're talking about.

Newsome has failed to consistently draft quality players on offense, something he has done for years on the defensive side of the ball. Add to that he's avoided improving the team through FA. He's done a lot of good things, don't get me wrong, but we can definitely question some of his moves as well.

The stuff surrounding Billick has been well documented so I won't get into that again.

Then it comes down to injuries, and then at the very end of the list is the quality of players we have, and that is where "it's all Boller's fault" can come into play.

But the bottom line is that he is at the end of a decent sized list of problems with the Ravens.That isn't true.....He has failed to draft a QB but the rest of the offense, he has been pretty good at.

[AgentOrange]

I can't believe that an Orioles fan couldn't understand this line of reasoning. When you are losing games, like the Rams and Orioles are doing, it's not just one person, or a few people. It's everyone.

How hard is that to understand?

I suppose its pretty hard to understand because I can't figure out why the Ravens organization is coming into question after all of the Head Coaches it puts out, all the talent they find in the later rounds/undrafted players, the way they handle the contracts... The Ravens are a winning Franchise, I find it hard to believe that we lose to the Bengals, Browns and Bills in the first 7 games and it is the whole organizations fault for that.


Now the Ravens are clearly doing some things right because they are still 4-3 this year and came off a 13-3 season last year. They've also won the SB within the last 10 years and are still one of the most respected front offices in the NFL. But there are definitely issues with this organization that run way, way, way, way deeper than just Kyle Boller. And to say anything different means that you don't know what you're talking about.

Wow, well thank you for finding the label maker. So I assume that you can just state BS and put that little line at the end and think it is the caboose on the train, well done. Some times you win games and some times you lose games, it happens. Both the Bengals game and the Bills game could have went the other way, and no one would be saying a word right now, but we lose these games and we have termites in the house. Interesting.

And BTW, I never said Boller was to blame for losing the game. He had opportunities to WIN the game and didn't do it. But you still don't grasp that one. Next time, don't lump me in with the people that think Boller is 100% to blame 100% of the time.


Newsome has failed to consistently draft quality players on offense, something he has done for years on the defensive side of the ball. Add to that he's avoided improving the team through FA. He's done a lot of good things, don't get me wrong, but we can definitely question some of his moves as well.

Actually, I would say Ozzie has found some good players on Offense the past couple of years. I would point to the type of system that we run on Offense that doesn't allow those types of pickups to play to the potential. Williams and Clayton are solid at WR, but we don't throw the ball down field accuratley to find out how valueable they can be. Sypnewski is a great backup TE and he is the third stringer. The O-Line is very young and very raw. We picked up Jared Gaither in the 5th round of the supplemental draft this year which can prove to be a steal. Ben Grubbs is the real deal. Jason Brown is improving and Yanda has shown quite a bit of promise on the right side.

I would like you to pinpoint the questionable moves. Was it Willis McGahee, the number 2 rusher in the NFL, that we traded for a 3rd and 7th round draft pick? Maybe it was Steve McNair? You do realize we have a salary cap to work under and we had at the same time two of the top Defensive players at their respective positions under contract.


The stuff surrounding Billick has been well documented so I won't get into that again.

No Need, I think he is the albatross hanging over this whole thing.


Then it comes down to injuries, and then at the very end of the list is the quality of players we have, and that is where "it's all Boller's fault" can come into play.

But the bottom line is that he is at the end of a decent sized list of problems with the Ravens.

And again, I am not putting him as the number 1 reason. I am going to assume you are talking to me because you responded to the post I made.

[NewMarketSean]

I suppose its pretty hard to understand because I can't figure out why the Ravens organization is coming into question after all of the Head Coaches it puts out, all the talent they find in the later rounds/undrafted players, the way they handle the contracts... The Ravens are a winning Franchise, I find it hard to believe that we lose to the Bengals, Browns and Bills in the first 7 games and it is the whole organizations fault for that.

I never meant to bite your head off. It's just that I've heard the same anti-Boller stuff for years and it's gotten under my skin. I know you are trying to discuss things reasonably. I will approach this thread differently.

Like I said, the Ravens are a model franchise in many ways. Your mentioning of the HC's it has produced is a great example. But on the other hand, the Ravens have yet to find an identity on offense and haven't won a playoff game since 2001. That is starting to blemish the sparkling reputation this organization has or had.

After all, it's not like the Ravens are the Patriots or anything. So I wouldn't exactly say Rome is burning, but it's not exactly a utopia either. There are definitely things the Ravens could be doing to set themselves up a little better. And because of that, the losses to CIN, CLE and BUF are a result. You can say injuries are a part of it, but these are bad teams we're losing to. And good teams should be beating bad teams, even with injuries.


Wow, well thank you for finding the label maker. So I assume that you can just state BS and put that little line at the end and think it is the caboose on the train, well done. Some times you win games and some times you lose games, it happens. Both the Bengals game and the Bills game could have went the other way, and no one would be saying a word right now, but we lose these games and we have termites in the house. Interesting.

That wasn't directed towards you either. Again, I was painting with broad strokes. But I don't exactly think that the CIN and BUF games are "we win some and lose some" kinds of games. The playcalling at crucial times in those games was horrendous and yes, the QB's could have done a little better at crucial times in those games as well.


And BTW, I never said Boller was to blame for losing the game. He had opportunities to WIN the game and didn't do it. But you still don't grasp that one. Next time, don't lump me in with the people that think Boller is 100% to blame 100% of the time.

Will do.


Actually, I would say Ozzie has found some good players on Offense the past couple of years. I would point to the type of system that we run on Offense that doesn't allow those types of pickups to play to the potential. Williams and Clayton are solid at WR, but we don't throw the ball down field accuratley to find out how valueable they can be. Sypnewski is a great backup TE and he is the third stringer. The O-Line is very young and very raw. We picked up Jared Gaither in the 5th round of the supplemental draft this year which can prove to be a steal. Ben Grubbs is the real deal. Jason Brown is improving and Yanda has shown quite a bit of promise on the right side.

I agree there are some positives, but I can point to the OL for years now and ask why it's still a weakness on offense. It's similar to LF, CF and 1B on the Orioles. Why has it taken so long for these weaknesses to be addressed???


I would like you to pinpoint the questionable moves. Was it Willis McGahee, the number 2 rusher in the NFL, that we traded for a 3rd and 7th round draft pick? Maybe it was Steve McNair? You do realize we have a salary cap to work under and we had at the same time two of the top Defensive players at their respective positions under contract.


It was 2 3rd round picks and a 7th for McGahee just to clarify. And no, I don't have any problems with those moves. Again I will point back to the OL and the offensive "talent" that we were faced with circa 2002-2004.



No Need, I think he is the albatross hanging over this whole thing.

I think this is what this whole argument comes down to. Whether Billick should be here after the season. Maybe Boller et al flourish under a different HC.

[Old#5fan]

I think this is what this whole argument comes down to. Whether Billick should be here after the season. Maybe Boller et al flourish under a different HC.

How pray tell will he ever "flourish" when he lacks the basic skill and ability to excute certain elementary plays as we saw first hand in his last three horrid plays Sunday? :confused: That execution by Boller is not going to improve even if Vince Lombardi was resurrected and became head coach of the Ravens. I fail to see an ounce of logic to your last statement. Sorry, there is zero basis for it that exists in reality.:eek:

[NewMarketSean]

How pray tell will he ever "flourish" when he lacks the basic skill and ability to excute certain elementary plays as we saw first hand in his last three horrid plays Sunday? :confused: That execution by Boller is not going to improve even if Vince Lombardi was resurrected and became head coach of the Ravens. I fail to see an ounce of logic to your last statement. Sorry, there is zero basis for it that exists in reality.:eek:

Because a new HC might actually try to use Boller's strengths (as well as the strengths of other players) instead of trying to suppress them in some kind of ball-control, playing-not-to-lose, conservative offense.

You say you are fine with Billick's playcalling only because to say otherwise would mean that you are taking blame away from Boller. But that just contradicts your self-proclaimed experience of watching football for 40+ years.

Can you honestly tell me that you were OK with the 3 straight passing plays with only 1 yard to gain, especially with a QB in Boller -- someone that you have zero faith in?

Besides, look around, Billick is on the hot seat and deservedly so. Running the ball when you have one yard to gain and multiple downs to do so is something that 8 years olds playing Tecmo Bowl even know to do. Had we gotten that first down you don't know what would have happened. Boller delivered on that 4th and goal TD, maybe he could have delivered again.

[tywright]

Mason is projected to have 128 receptions this year. Great for Mason, but poor for spreading out the offense.

[Old#5fan]

Because a new HC might actually try to use Boller's strengths (as well as the strengths of other players) instead of trying to suppress them in some kind of ball-control, playing-not-to-lose, conservative offense.

You say you are fine with Billick's playcalling only because to say otherwise would mean that you are taking blame away from Boller. But that just contradicts your self-proclaimed experience of watching football for 40+ years.

Can you honestly tell me that you were OK with the 3 straight passing plays with only 1 yard to gain, especially with a QB in Boller -- someone that you have zero faith in?

Besides, look around, Billick is on the hot seat and deservedly so. Running the ball when you have one yard to gain and multiple downs to do so is something that 8 years olds playing Tecmo Bowl even know to do. Had we gotten that first down you don't know what would have happened. Boller delivered on that 4th and goal TD, maybe he could have delivered again.

I don't know but maybe the reason Billick called three passing plays was due to the fact the Bills were showing a middle blitz designed not only to pressure Boller but stuff any running back in the backfield as he was getting the handoff. We have all seen that work countless times where Boller is actually nearly tacked as he hands off and so is the runner as soon as he gets the ball. The reason this happens is there are simply more blitzing defensive players than blockers held in. This is not poor pass protection but a situation where the QB simply has to pass the ball quickly while remaining cool under pressure and hit his hot read. It is something good QBs do sucessfully and poor ones often do not. Boller, unfortunately due to his terrible lack of poise and hyperactive, nervous disposition is one of the worst I have seen at handling a blitz but he needed to step it up as the game was on the line and the Bills knew it. Ergo, Billick was in a quandry. He calls a run and it is almost certain a loss. He calls a pass play and he knows Boller will have to react properly to complete it. If I was Billick in that situation the only thing I know for sure is I would be wishing Steve McNair was out there. He was in a no-win situation, as this was the exact scenario where a poised, veteran QB was a critical need and his was on the sidelines.

[NewMarketSean]

I don't know but maybe the reason Billick called three passing plays was due to the fact the Bills were showing a middle blitz designed not only to pressure Boller but stuff any running back in the backfield as he was getting the handoff. We have all seen that work countless times where Boller is actually nearly tacked as he hands off and so is the runner as soon as he gets the ball. The reason this happens is there are simply more blitzing defensive players than blockers held in. This is not poor pass protection but a situation where the QB simply has to pass the ball quickly while remaining cool under pressure and hit his hot read. It is something good QBs do sucessfully and poor ones often do not. Boller, unfortunately due to his terrible lack of poise and hyperactive, nervous disposition is one of the worst I have seen. Ergo, Billick was in a quandry. He calls a run and it is a loss. He calls a pass play and he knows Boller will have to react properly to complete it. If I was Billick in that situation the only thing I know for sure is I would be wishing Steve McNair was out there. He was in a no-win situation.

I thought we went over this already. The reason the Bills blitzed so heavily is that all 3 of those plays were from the shotgun with no RB's back with Boller. The Bills knew we were going to pass. Had we lined up with some RB's in the backfield, and not in the shotgun formation, the Bills don't know what we're doing. We took away the element of surprise.

And I have faith that our best player, McGahee, gets us 1 yard.

The bottom line is that 2 games can be pinned on Billick's play calling late in the game. Its not the only reason we lost but it's a big reason. Bigger than Boller's play in those games.

[AgentOrange]

I thought we went over this already. The reason the Bills blitzed so heavily is that all 3 of those plays were from the shotgun with no RB's back with Boller. The Bills knew we were going to pass. Had we lined up with some RB's in the backfield, and not in the shotgun formation, the Bills don't know what we're doing. We took away the element of surprise.

And I have faith that our best player, McGahee, gets us 1 yard.

The bottom line is that 2 games can be pinned on Billick's play calling late in the game. Its not the only reason we lost but it's a big reason. Bigger than Boller's play in those games.

I didn't realize we couldn't run from shotgun formation. That is interesting.

So you think the Bills audibled at the line everysingle play once they "knew" we were going to pass?

[The Wedge]

I didn't realize we couldn't run from shotgun formation. That is interesting.

So you think the Bills audibled at the line everysingle play once they "knew" we were going to pass?

While it's not a given, what kind of a running play can you honestly run with a no back shotgun formation? Either a end around or a QB draw. I think they covered the draw sufficiently.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I didn't realize we couldn't run from shotgun formation. That is interesting.

So you think the Bills audibled at the line everysingle play once they "knew" we were going to pass?

Why do you think they audibled? Did it have anything to do with the fact that we kept lining up in a no-back shotgun formation?

Hell, they probably kept figuring that no team was that dumb, then had to audible when they were proven incorrect.

[doggiedogma]

WHO CARES? I am now Aberdeen; HIRE ME! I will give you Shot guns, touchdowns, 2-point conversions, never punt, never throw, never handoff...always pitch and lateral, WHATEVER! Just hire me; I know one syllable words; shun the media; will delegate every aspect of work to someone else even! I will work (cough) at making others do the work for me!
And i promise not to bring a pen and pad of paper with me to interviews in order to write down the questions like I am lawyer or on trial, because I will never do interviews. Like Coack K at Duke (i am not trying to spell his last name) I will have my hirlings; i mean coaches, speak to the media

[The Wedge]

Okay guy, chill on the "happy to have enough posts to be Aberdeen" bit. You're freaking us out.

[Old#5fan]

I thought we went over this already. The reason the Bills blitzed so heavily is that all 3 of those plays were from the shotgun with no RB's back with Boller. The Bills knew we were going to pass. Had we lined up with some RB's in the backfield, and not in the shotgun formation, the Bills don't know what we're doing. We took away the element of surprise.

And I have faith that our best player, McGahee, gets us 1 yard.

The bottom line is that 2 games can be pinned on Billick's play calling late in the game. Its not the only reason we lost but it's a big reason. Bigger than Boller's play in those games.

Well, of course you could be right but I still think the Bills blitz even if they line up in regular (non-shotgun) formation. There are such things as run blitzes which I think you know about correct? In retrospect, I think what they should have done was immediately after the first down 9 yard gain, have Boller rush the team to the line of scrimmage and do a QB dive behind the center or guard for the first down. Now would that have changed what transpired later? Who knows? but it would have at least given them another down to make a play than what they ended up having.