Why do you dislike the Patriots?

[DrLev]

I wanted to break this off from the labyrinthine "Tom Brady" thread so we can have some hopefully logical and sane discourse.

The question I posit, in the broadest terms possible, is this:

Why hate the Patriots?

To be more specific:

1. Is it the winning? The fans? The players? Belichick?
2. Before the Spygate scandal, was your opinion different? How?
3. Is the lens simply more focused now in light of the scandal? Is everyones' fuse shorter with regard to the team now? Was it an excuse for latent but generally silent dislike to finally bubble over?
4. If it was your team, your coach (the Ravens and Billick, the Redskins and Gibbs, whatever.), how would you really, truly, react to the recent goings on? What about this past Sunday's blowout? How would you feel about your team running up the score? Is it classless or is it football?

I'm really interested in what people have to say, and I want to keep this as reasonable as possible.

(As an aside: People here know I think the Ravens are great and all, but I'm a lifelong Patriots fan, and a rational, reasonable one at that.)

[Pushmonkey]

As a Ravens fan I could careless...I mean they are a great team, but its not like they are the stealers or the Bungles or the Browns....even to some extent the Titans.

[glenn__davis]

I've got no problem with the Patriots.

[MikeAD]

I've got no problem with the Patriots.

Me neither, as long as they beat the Steelers and lose to us :D

[beaner]

For the same reason that people hate the Yankees/Red Sox, Duke/Carolina...etc. Winning breeds envy and the rest of the league is now envious of what Belichick has built there. I wonder how many people hated the Pats of Dick MacPherson who were 2-14...It's the winning.

For the record, I have no problem with them at all. If anyone can't recognize that they're seeing history here, than I don't know what to say.

[DrLev]

I wonder how many people hated the Pats of Dick MacPherson who were 2-14...It's the winning.


Hey, that's not even the worst of it. What about Rod Rust and 1-15?

[beaner]

Hey, that's not even the worst of it. What about Rod Rust and 1-15?

Good one. I haven't thought about Rod Rust in ages..

People in Baltimore really took to the Raymond Berry teams for obvious reasons. I remember my Father and Grandfather going nuts when they beat the Dolphins in the AFC title game that year.

[CrimsonTribe]

I don't hate the Pats, but the same can't be said for New England area fans.

[longflyball]

As I said in the Brady thread, I admire their run of dominance. For me the "hate them because they're so good" psychology never came into play with New England, because being so good for so long is an incredible feat in the NFL, whereas in baseball $200 million can buy a spot in the playoffs every year.

The past few months have changed my sentiments 180 degrees. They cheated, they stonewalled, they got off light, and they act like nobody had the right to catch them in the act and nobody had the right to dislike it. Now they're thumbing their nose at common decency by running up the score.

I hope the next time Brady goes back to throw deep in the 4th quarter of a blowout a lineman launches headlong into his kneecap.

[geschinger]

I wanted to break this off from the labyrinthine "Tom Brady" thread so we can have some hopefully logical and sane discourse.

The question I posit, in the broadest terms possible, is this:

Why hate the Patriots?

To be more specific:

1. Is it the winning? The fans? The players? Belichick?


Bill Belichick and Rodney Harrison are easy guys to hate. Both are willing to cross any line and break any rule if they think it gives their team an advantage. Other than those two I have a lot of respect for their players and front office guys like Pioli.



2. Before the Spygate scandal, was your opinion different? How?


Not really. Spygate just reinforced that BB is willing to cross any line and break any rule to get an edge. It wasn't all that suprising other than how stupid he was to do what they did after being warned explicitly.



3. Is the lens simply more focused now in light of the scandal? Is everyones' fuse shorter with regard to the team now? Was it an excuse for latent but generally silent dislike to finally bubble over?


Probably and it is unfair to some degree but BB has noone to blame but himself for the increased scrutiny. Now anytime something happens like the Redskins losing their communication system it's only natural to wonder if there is a possibility the Pats were behind it. BB's reaction to spygate where he doesn't seem to have any regret about crossing the line but rather anger that he got caught followed by the running up the score antics is the reason there seems to be a more vocal reaction and dislike.




If it was your team, your coach (the Ravens and Billick, the Redskins and Gibbs, whatever.), how would you really, truly, react to the recent goings on? What about this past Sunday's blowout? How would you feel about your team running up the score? Is it classless or is it football?

I'm really interested in what people have to say, and I want to keep this as reasonable as possible.

(As an aside: People here know I think the Ravens are great and all, but I'm a lifelong Patriots fan, and a rational, reasonable one at that.)

4. If BB was the coach of my team, I'd be extremly pleased with how well he has the team playing. But I would not like to see my team do what the Patriots are doing whether it be spygate or running up the score. It is unnecessary. If it's all about sending an Eff You message to the rest of the league, then it is classless. I can't think of any other reason he feels like it benefits his team to score a TD w/19 seconds left instead of taking a knee or reinserting his franchise player in a game that has long since been decided or believing that somehow scoring 40+ against Washington is more beneficial to the team than winning by 30+.

[beaner]

As I said in the Brady thread, I admire their run of dominance. For me the "hate them because they're so good" psychology never came into play with New England, because being so good for so long is an incredible feat in the NFL, whereas in baseball $200 million can buy a spot in the playoffs every year.

The past few months have changed my sentiments 180 degrees. They cheated, they stonewalled, they got off light, and they act like nobody had the right to catch them in the act and nobody had the right to dislike it. Now they're thumbing their nose at common decency by running up the score.

I hope they next time Brady goes back to throw deep in the 4th quarter of a blowout a lineman launches headlong into his kneecap.

From what I've read, everyone "cheats" the way New England did. Last year they were caught twice, and asked by the other team not to do it anymore, and they stopped. That's why so many coaches around the league are dissapointed in Mangini for turning them in. Going against "the code".

Apparently it's fairly common (I'm not justifying it, mind you), and now people are finding it easy to just say "Oh, they're a bunch of cheaters"...etc.

[geschinger]

From what I've read, everyone "cheats" the way New England did. Last year they were caught twice, and asked by the other team not to do it anymore, and they stopped. That's why so many coaches around the league are dissapointed in Mangini for turning them in. Going against "the code".

Apparently it's fairly common (I'm not justifying it, mind you), and now people are finding it easy to just say "Oh, they're a bunch of cheaters"...etc.

I'm sure every team is engaged in trying to steal signals in one way or the other but I find it hard to believe that everyone continued to send out a guy to video the signals after the NFL explicitly warned them not to do it. If they did, w/all the tape from all the games one would think some enterprising member of the media would expose other teams engaged in the same kind of behavior.

[beaner]

I'm sure every team is engaged in trying to steal signals in one way or the other but I find it hard to believe that everyone continued to send out a guy to video the signals after the NFL explicitly warned them not to do it. If they did, w/all the tape from all the games one would think some enterprising member of the media would expose other teams engaged in the same kind of behavior.

I don't know the extent of it as far as other teams go. It does seem that New England went overboard (and maybe they did), but i don't think that it helped them win any more than obvious skill has.

[geschinger]

I don't know the extent of it as far as other teams go. It does seem that New England went overboard (and maybe they did), but i don't think that it helped them win any more than obvious skill has.

That's what I found so bizarre about the whole situation. They have so much talent they don't need to do things like that to win.

[beaner]

That's what I found so bizarre about the whole situation. They have so much talent they don't need to do things like that to win.

Agreed. It was week 1 though, and since they play the Jets twice a year (three last year), perhaps they were trying to get an edge for future games against them. I simply think that it was blown way out of proportion and the rest of the league is now paying for it.

[geschinger]

Agreed. It was week 1 though, and since they play the Jets twice a year (three last year), perhaps they were trying to get an edge for future games against them. I simply think that it was blown way out of proportion and the rest of the league is now paying for it.

Hopefully for the Patriots BBs disproportionate response to negative reaction doesn't end up getting Brady or someone else hurt by a disproportionate response from a player on a team that BBs running up the score on.

[beaner]

Hopefully for the Patriots BBs disproportionate response to negative reaction doesn't end up getting Brady or someone else hurt by a disproportionate response from a player on a team that BBs running up the score on.

Well that's a risk that he's clearly willing to take. It would be a shame if indirectly he cost his team a chance at history.

[Mad Mark]

I don't hate the Patriots, but I do think their uniforms are pretty fugly. (I could, however, say that about almost the entire NFL.)
As a Redskins fan, I was more disappointed in my teams performance than p!ssed off by the opponents.
Given that the Redskins tendency to play "four corners" offense with a lead has blown up on them twice this season, I can see the virtue in continuing to play the game as if it were still a contest from start to finish.
Having said that--given that the Redskins offense presented no threat to anyone other than themselves last week--I think the Patriots could, and should, have cooled their jets when the lead got to 35 points.

[orioles119]

I don't necessarily hate the Patriots as a whole, but it's the whole extension of them playing in New England. Therefore, I dislike the Patriots because I hate the Red Sox and their fans. By proxy, Red Sox fans are most likely Patriots fans. Therefore, I hate the whole dominance of the region. At least New York fans are knowledgable. Boston - who knows.

Therefore, I dislike the Patriots on the principle of "guilt by association."

[Moose Milligan]

I don't hate the Patriots, but I do think their uniforms are pretty fugly. (I could, however, say that about almost the entire NFL.)
As a Redskins fan, I was more disappointed in my teams performance than p!ssed off by the opponents.
Given that the Redskins tendency to play "four corners" offense with a lead has blown up on them twice this season, I can see the virtue in continuing to play the game as if it were still a contest from start to finish.
Having said that--given that the Redskins offense presented no threat to anyone other than themselves last week--I think the Patriots could, and should, have cooled their jets when the lead got to 35 points.

I'm with you on this...they smoked our boys yesterday. However, if the Redskins were so adverse to it, they should have done something about it. They were dead from start to finish, showed little emotion and basically just rolled over.

That said, I don't really hate the Patriots all that much. Maybe it's cause they're AFC and I'm too busy hating the Cowboys and Eagles...

I will say I don't like Bellichick. I really don't like that guy. Brady is annoying, too.

But Tedy Bruschi is the one I hate the most. I hate that guy. I can't stand watching interviews with that guy. Everything's always hunky dory with him, he's got this air of "I'm so humble yet I'm so cocky about being humble that I'm really not humble" thing going on that drives me insane. I realize the guy has overcome a lot with his stroke and everything...thats admirable and I'm not overlooking it, but I can't stand the guys attitude.

However, I can't get too mad about them running up the points on the Skins yesterday...I mean, they're so cutthroat, its great. IMO, thats how sport should be...trying to destroy your opponents (within the rules) on all levels from start to finish...not letting up for even a second.

I wish the Redskins did that...the Redskins time and time again continue to sit on leads and play scared in the 2nd half instead of going for the juglar.

And I wish our beloved O's did the same thing, too.

[Dr. FLK]

Where to start...

I hate everything about them. I have Bellichek. I think he's an arrogant, self-righteous schmuck who is now on some course to prove he's a genius by running up the score on everyone he plays. Greta coach. But he's a Grade A *****.

I hate Brady. He has this fake "I'm so humble" routine down, and it makes me sick. He also has this crap eating half-grin he uses in press conferences to perfect is smug act.

And, since they are from the Boston area, I cannot stand their fans. The Boston fans have gone from the loveable losers to some sort of overly-arrogant plague cursing the land. I'm sure there are lots of die hards. But, now we are "blessed" with the droves of front running, pink jersey wearing, frat party going, wanna root for a team that wins, loser fans...who talk smack about a team they have "always liked" for the last 7 minutes. And, frankly, even the die hard fans get on my nerves...

And, just went I thought I couldn't dislike them anymore, they sign Randy Moss...who decides he will grace the NFL with his presence and actually attempt to play football this year since he can win. AND THEN, they draft Brandon Merriweather...

Rodney Harrison gets busted for roids and no one cares...but, if he were a baseball player this would be a travesty on the cover of every paper.

I could go on and on...obviously a great team...I just detest them more than I have detested any great team since the 90s Cowgirls.

[DrLev]

And, since they are from the Boston area, I cannot stand their fans. The Boston fans have gone from the loveable losers to some sort of overly-arrogant plague cursing the land. I'm sure there are lots of die hards. But, now we are "blessed" with the droves of front running, pink jersey wearing, frat party going, wanna root for a team that wins, loser fans...who talk smack about a team they have "always liked" for the last 7 minutes. And, frankly, even the die hard fans get on my nerves...




I don't necessarily hate the Patriots as a whole, but it's the whole extension of them playing in New England. Therefore, I dislike the Patriots because I hate the Red Sox and their fans. By proxy, Red Sox fans are most likely Patriots fans. Therefore, I hate the whole dominance of the region. At least New York fans are knowledgable. Boston - who knows.

Therefore, I dislike the Patriots on the principle of "guilt by association."

I understand the sentiment. I really do. I grew up in Connecticut and saw the attitude of both the New York and Boston sports sets. The life-long die-hards are generally not the problem as I've seen it (though my Red Sox fan father is insufferable from time to time). The life-long and die-hard fan sets tend to be very knowledgeable about both their team and other teams. They'll engage in good-natured ribbing but they can always respect a good play when they see it. There's also the set that is a huge fan of the sport in general, which can be transmuted and adapted into die-hard fandom for a given team. This is the set I fit into. I'm a baseball fan in a general sort of way, and I'm specifically an ardent Orioles fan (though not from birth). The bandwagoner, frat-boy, hotshot young business executive set that doesn't give a damn about the game and sport and only cares about the identity is the problem. No, they haven't "always liked" the team. They weren't saying they liked them when they sucked. They weren't even saying they sucked when they sucked. The team didn't even exist to them when they were bad. But when ESPN said they were the team to root for, they went to the mall and bought a nice shiny new pink hat for their girlfriend and a "World Series Champions 2004" hat for themselves. I cringe at what we're going to have to deal with at OPACY for yet another year.

Red Sox fans and Patriots fans aren't the same group, though. I'm proof of that, and people who have met me at Hangout games would tell you that despite my Patriots fandom, I'm definitely not "that type" of fan.

There are jerkhole fans of every team, be they New Yorkers or New Englanders. I agree that the New York fan tends to be more knowledgeable (I've said it when sticking up for Yankee fans over Red Sox fans in such debates in the past), and that the nouveau-Red Sox/Patriots fan is usually an arrogant jerk who can't name anyone on the Patriots before 2001 or on the Red Sox before 2004.

So FLK, in the interests of cooking the goose with the gander (generalizing can be a dangerous thing!), I'm sorry I get on your nerves, but I hope you will reassess who it is you really dislike here. I think you'll find it is the exact same group I dislike, and I'm a Patriots fan!

[Dr. FLK]

So FLK, in the interests of cooking the goose with the gander (generalizing can be a dangerous thing!), I'm sorry I get on your nerves, but I hope you will reassess who it is you really dislike here. I think you'll find it is the exact same group I dislike, and I'm a Patriots fan!

Well, I was obviously speaking in generalities...I can't claim to hate all Pats fans. I guess you're the one that I can tolerate...see, I'm not that narrowminded...;)

[BaltimoreTerp]

I've thought Belichek was a jerk for a while, but I never really had a problem with them until the past couple weeks.

It isn't that they are winning, it is HOW they are winning, first by alleged cheating (which we will never fully know because the NFL admitted to destroying the evidence), then by running up the scores to the point of making Steve Spurrier cringe.

The first couple weeks, it was, "Wow, they are GOOD!"

Then they moved into, "OK, we get it, you are good. You don't have to keep this up."

Now they are in the mode of, "Seriously, this is ridiculous and an embarrassment to the spirit of the game."

I used to like watching Tom Brady play; now I'm rooting to see him carted off the field with his leg immobilized. I don't feel proud about it, but I do feel that way.

It's like watching a team win with cut blocks, late hits and eye-gouging.

Worst of all, they are going to make me root for the Colts this week, which is the final straw.

[Mad Mark]

Speaking as a representative of the Shiny Head Club, I can say that when Brady took his helmet off Sunday to reveal that he hadn't even broken a sweat, and his hair was just out there flapping in the breeze...that p!ssed me off a little bit...:eek:

[DuffMan]

This is a little bit off topic, but how do you think this Patriots offense would fair against the Ravens Super Bowl Defense?

[BaltimoreTerp]

This is a little bit off topic, but how do you think this Patriots offense would fair against the Ravens Super Bowl Defense?

Tough question.

They wouldn't be able to run against that line, for sure.

The secondary was very good, though it could be beaten. However, if the Patriots couldn't run the ball, they just drop Ray back in coverage and send Sharper and Boulware at Brady. Even if they keep the backs in to block, they still end up with three receivers against five in coverage, and I like the Ravens' odds.

It would be a hell of a battle, though; Patriots probably win just because their defense would completely shut down our offense.

It would probably be a 16-9 game, with the one TD Brady to Welker on a slant pattern against Ray.

[DuffMan]

Tough question.

They wouldn't be able to run against that line, for sure.

The secondary was very good, though it could be beaten. However, if the Patriots couldn't run the ball, they just drop Ray back in coverage and send Sharper and Boulware at Brady. Even if they keep the backs in to block, they still end up with three receivers against five in coverage, and I like the Ravens' odds.

It would be a hell of a battle, though; Patriots probably win just because their defense would completely shut down our offense.

It would probably be a 16-9 game, with the one TD Brady to Welker on a slant pattern against Ray.


Reading your prediction just reminded me of a great web site it's www.whatifsports.com It's a very cool sports sim site that let's you simulate baseball, football, basketball and hockey games from any time period. (You can even make a fantasy league of power teams and sim a season). They even give you a box score for the game.

Unfortunately they don't have the 2007 teams in there yet so I couldn't sim that matchup, although I do think your assessment is probably what would happen.


One final note I did do a matchup between the 2000 Ravens and the 2006 Colts and the Ravens must've won 90% of the matchups.

[bryanman8]

The Pats are really classy. Ohh man I can't wait for week 13.

That is going to be hilarious.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Tom Brady's knees, meet Terrell Suggs' helmet. Talk for a while; you will be bumping into each other an awful lot in a couple weeks.

[MikeAD]

Tom Brady's knees, meet Terrell Suggs' helmet. Talk for a while; you will be bumping into each other an awful lot in a couple weeks.

If T-Sizzle can get through that line you mean :rolleyes:

[BaltimoreTerp]

If T-Sizzle can get through that line you mean :rolleyes:

I wasn't necessarily talking about during the play.

[YardBirds13]

I hate the Patriots for one simple fact: I'm a Dolphins fan.

They aren't my least hated team. That honor goes to the Jets.

The Patriots are the Red Sox to the Jets' Yankees for me.

That makes Buffalo the Blue Jays/Rays:D

Seriously, as good as the Patriots are and may continue to be...I will NEVER NEVER hate any team as much as I hate the Jets.

It kind of bothers me to be honest, when everyone says NE is their least favorite team. What does it say in beaner's sig?

I hated the Patriots before hating the Patriots was cool.

Or something like that:D

[Dr. FLK]

I wasn't necessarily talking about during the play.

If the Pats run up the score on the Ravens like they do to everyone else, I could see T-Sizzle losing his mind and crushing Brady (illegally or legally...I'm not sure Suggs cares). He doesn't strike me as most mentally stable guy.

[BaltimoreTerp]

If the Pats run up the score on the Ravens like they do to everyone else, I could see T-Sizzle losing his mind and crushing Brady (illegally or legally...I'm not sure Suggs cares). He doesn't strike me as most mentally stable guy.

That's why I picked him.

[MikeAD]

Um, all I can say is if Stallworth can get about 7 receptions, 65 yards and 3 TDs tongiht and New England's defense can hold Westbrook to about 35 yards, I will love them forever.

[CrimsonTribe]

I dislike the Pats very much for what they've done to Laurence Maroney.

[MikeAD]

I dislike the Pats very much for what they've done to Laurence Maroney.

Oh you mean that guy that used to be the running back for New England??


;)

[Dr. FLK]

Um, all I can say is if Stallworth can get about 7 receptions, 65 yards and 3 TDs tongiht and New England's defense can hold Westbrook to about 35 yards, I will love them forever.

Too bad Westbrook has a TD already...the guy I play this week has him. What a shame.

Maybe he'll lose 4 fumbles this half.

[MikeAD]

Too bad Westbrook has a TD already...the guy I play this week has him. What a shame.

Maybe he'll lose 4 fumbles this half.

I will still be ok.

We each have 2 players left and we are about tied, I just need Hines Ward to outscore Wille Parker tommorow night............................:002_ssad:

[frankpembleton]

I could care less about the Pats, but I cannot stand New England fans of any sport.

I reserve my hate for the steelers, colts and skins and to a lesser extent the Browns.

I really don't think anyone in Baltimore gives the Patriots much thought one way or the other...

[Sports Guy]

This is incredible....The Eagles are going to cover and may actually WIN! :eek:

[Pedro Cerrano]

Anyone still think the Pats are completely invincible? AJ Feeley hanging with them on the road.

Any team is beatable.

[twoBshorty]

OK, nobody likes the Pats.

But you have to watch this video. This is awesome. It's called "Cooking with Coach Belichick," from his days in Cleveland.

YouTube: Belichick demonstrates how to make a PBJ (http://youtube.com/watch?v=zOaGkPXn9LQ)