Blow It Up?

[Stevo5278]

After watching that embarassment tonight it's clear that the Ravens are pretenders and most definitely not contenders. We're 4-4 with only 1 certain win (Miami) left on the schedule. If things don't get better over the second half of the season (and I don't see any reason why they would) I propose doing the following:

1. Fire Billick and replace him with Rex Ryan or some young, up and coming coach (i.e. Mike Tomlin).

2. Put the offense in the hands of a coordinator with a track record.

3. Cut McNair.

4. Consider trading some of the veterans (i.e. Lewis, Mason, McAlister, and Rolle).

5. Let Terrell Suggs walk in free agency. He's not a smart player.

6. Draft a QB in the first round and let him sit for a year while Boller plays out his contract.

7. Build the long-term offense around the new QB, McGahee, Heap, and the young receivers.

8. Build the defense around Ed Reed, Bart Scott, and Haloti Ngata.

9. Acquire as many high round draft picks as possible and draft replacements for Lewis, McAlister, and Rolle.

I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that we won't be contenders this year or for the next few. Let's recognize that and rebuild smartly. I certainly have more faith in Ozzie and the Ravens to do it smartly than I do the Orioles.

Steve

[Birds of B'more]

After watching that embarassment tonight it's clear that the Ravens are pretenders and most definitely not contenders. We're 4-4 with only 1 certain win (Miami) left on the schedule. If things don't get better over the second half of the season (and I don't see any reason why they would) I propose doing the following:

1. Fire Billick and replace him with Rex Ryan or some young, up and coming coach (i.e. Mike Tomlin).

2. Put the offense in the hands of a coordinator with a track record.

3. Cut McNair.

4. Consider trading some of the veterans (i.e. Lewis, Mason, McAlister, and Rolle).

5. Let Terrell Suggs walk in free agency. He's not a smart player.

6. Draft a QB in the first round and let him sit for a year while Boller plays out his contract.

7. Build the long-term offense around the new QB, McGahee, Heap, and the young receivers.

8. Build the defense around Ed Reed, Bart Scott, and Haloti Ngata.

9. Acquire as many high round draft picks as possible and draft replacements for Lewis, McAlister, and Rolle.

I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that we won't be contenders this year or for the next few. Let's recognize that and rebuild smartly. I certainly have more faith in Ozzie and the Ravens to do it smartly than I do the Orioles.

Steve

Not sure I agree with the "blow it up" suggestion. This isn't the Orioles. There is legitimate talent on this team. But to answer your questions....

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Yes to Lewis, Mason and Rolle. No to McAlister......he's still a shutdown corner when healthy

5. No........Suggs is definitely no rocket scientist, but is a great DE who plays both run and pass well and is just entering his prime.

6. Yes.......but the way the 2008 draft class is shaping up, you may just find a future franchise QB after the 1st round too.

7. Yes.......there are also some good young linemen who will hopefully improve.

8. Yes.......but add McAlister and Suggs to that list.

9. Yes.......but again, keep McAlister.

And finally, in today's NFL if a team is not a contender this year it doesn't mean they won't be playoff caliber the next. There's enough young talent here that the Ravens don't need to do a total rebuild. They just need to improve the coaching and play calling on the offense and attempt to get something for some veterans that are in the twilight of their careers to help reload talent for future teams.

[ChrisP]

I'd fire Billick now. Promote Ryan and try to stir something up. Like Young said on tv, it's not a one game thing, it's YEARS (but we all know that). I'd bench Steve and hand it over to Kyle to try and prove he could do something again.

I was wondering about Suggs. He's 24, but it seems like he's still getting 15yd penalties for late hits (etc..), especially in blow-outs like he's losing his cool.

I think I'd listen to offers for Lewis. Folks have said that he wants an extension or he'll be a distraction next year. Time to cut the cord?

[Camden_yardbird]

Yes to all. That certainly looked like rock bottom to me yesterday. That was one of the most undisciplined teams I have ever seen. And I don't even think that the moves you are proposing are "blow it up."

[NewMarketSean]

Gonna be hard for people to give excuses for that loss yesterday. Like I have said several times, this team is not good and it goes MUCH deeper than a Qb named Boller. I wonder what Oldfan has to say about McNair's performance last night.

McNair looks 10x worse than Boller and that can't be debated, the messy weather ineffectiveness continues and now Billick decides to run the ball down by 21 points.

What the f--- is going on here?

That was easily one of the worst losses in Ravens history.

[DuffMan]

Gonna be hard for people to give excuses for that loss yesterday. Like I have said several times, this team is not good and it goes MUCH deeper than a Qb named Boller. I wonder what Oldfan has to say about McNair's performance last night.

McNair looks 10x worse than Boller and that can't be debated, the messy weather ineffectiveness continues and now Billick decides to run the ball down by 21 points.

What the f--- is going on here?

That was easily one of the worst losses in Ravens history.

As much as losing this season stinks I had a feeling this might happen, but this just makes blowing it in the playoffs last year hurt even more.

[NewMarketSean]

As much as losing this season stinks I had a feeling this might happen, but this just makes blowing it in the playoffs last year hurt even more.

I agree, but you have to wonder, were we as good as we thought we were back then? Or was that game just the beginning of the end for this team?

[Objectivity]

I agree, but you have to wonder, were we as good as we thought we were back then? Or was that game just the beginning of the end for this team?

The answer to both questions is yes.

Billick appears locked into the Mike Martz path of "I know more than you and I'll outthink myself to prove I can out think you."

In the playoffs last year he decided to not have our defense be aggressive because everyone expected it to be.

Now, he's trying to call plays based on what he shouldn't do in that situation.

When you do that sometimes you catch the opponent off guard. When you do it all the time, it doesn't matter.

[ccbird]

This isn't baseball. You can't just blow it up. It is going to be nearly impossible to trade the contracts of Lewis, McAlister, Rolle, etc because of the salary cap. Other teams can't afford most of these guys and plus it would effect the Ravens cap number too. Straight up releasing some guys is an option but don't expect to get anything for most of the players listed. We do need to get younger and rebuild somewhat but it's not like we don't have good young talent across the board at multiple positions.The 2 positions that stand out to me are QB and CB. Obviously, we don't have a starting NFL QB on our roster right now and we need to fix that. Drafting a QB early in this years draft is a must IMO. Also our starting CB's are on the wrong side of 30 and we saw tonight just how bad a lot of our young guys are. If we focus on those 2 positions along with a defensive end and another LB in this draft we can be set up again for 2009.

[Sports Guy]

I think there is a misconception about this team being old....Lets look at the "older" players on the team:

Ray- Still very good...Playing at a pro bowl level
Rolle- Better than people think...Still a solid #2 CB
Ogden- When healthy, he is stll one of the best
Pryce- Dominant guy...Was getting triple teamed last night with a cast on hsi wrist
CMac- Still an upper echelon CB
Mason- Not the deep threat he once was but he is a solid possession WR

This is good old...These guys are still very productive.

Where we are old is at QB and that is making the rest of the team look old.

This team lacks 2 things IMO:

1) Very good secondary depth
2) Speed on offense

These 2 things have to be corrected....We need a stronger 3rd down back and we need a big play WR.

[ccbird]

I think there is a misconception about this team being old....Lets look at the "older" players on the team:

Ray- Still very good...Playing at a pro bowl level
Rolle- Better than people think...Still a solid #2 CB
Ogden- When healthy, he is stll one of the best
Pryce- Dominant guy...Was getting triple teamed last night with a cast on hsi wrist
CMac- Still an upper echelon CB
Mason- Not the deep threat he once was but he is a solid possession WR

This is good old...These guys are still very productive.

Where we are old is at QB and that is making the rest of the team look old.

This team lacks 2 things IMO:

1) Very good secondary depth
2) Speed on offense

These 2 things have to be corrected....We need a stronger 3rd down back and we need a big play WR.

I still think Williams and even Clayton for that matter can be big play receivers. Neither have top end speed but both run great routes and have found a knack for getting open down field in the past. Figurs obviously has top end speed but it remains to be seen whether he will ever show good enough hands to be in the WR set. Getting another WR would be a luxury but not the necessity that getting a franchise QB or good young CB is at this point.

[NewMarketSean]

It all comes back to Billick IMO. He is just not utilizing the strengths of the team anymore.

[Sports Guy]

I still think Williams and even Clayton for that matter can be big play receivers. Neither have top end speed but both run great routes and have found a knack for getting open down field in the past. Figurs obviously has top end speed but it remains to be seen whether he will ever show good enough hands to be in the WR set. Getting another WR would be a luxury but not the necessity that getting a franchise QB or good young CB is at this point.

DWill is held back in this offense, i have little doubt about that.

I also think Clayton would be doing more if he were healthy and had a better QB but neither of these guys get great seperation....At least not yet.

A big play WR may be a luxury and i do agree with that....Not having Heap certainly hurts these guys but we need someone down field.

But the corner and QB are more important.

Speed must be upgraded though.

[biggsy]

After watching that embarassment tonight it's clear that the Ravens are pretenders and most definitely not contenders. We're 4-4 with only 1 certain win (Miami) left on the schedule. If things don't get better over the second half of the season (and I don't see any reason why they would) I propose doing the following:

Except maybe the health of certain starters such as McAlister, Rolle and Heap. Other then that, yeah, it could get ugly.


1. Fire Billick and replace him with Rex Ryan or some young, up and coming coach (i.e. Mike Tomlin).

Billick isn't going anywhere after this year, Biscotti will do the same thing he did before, tell him he has one more year and if he can't show any signs of improvement he'll be replaced. Were talking about a coach with a winning percentage close to if not over .600 in his time in Baltimore. You don't just get rid of a guy like that. Especially when he's shown his worth with a young team. And if thats the direction this team is going then theres not one coach I can think of that would be better for a young team then Billick except for maybe Fisher.



2. Put the offense in the hands of a coordinator with a track record.

Definitely. Get the offense into someones hands that knows what they're doing.


3. Cut McNair.

I wouldn't cut him. Even if he doesn't start he has importance. Who would you rather have mentor a young stud QB you just drafted, Steve McNair or Kyle Boller ? I say resign McNair to a cheaper more cap friendly deal, Draft a stud QB in the first or second round next year, Start Boller, keep McNair as a vertran backup and let the young kid learn from a former MVP and superbowl QB.


4. Consider trading some of the veterans (i.e. Lewis, Mason, McAlister, and Rolle).

Lewis and Mason maybe, but I can't see there being any intrest at all for Mason. Lewis maybe but thats a hard contract to move, plus your talking about the face of the Ravens for the past 10 years, the only athlete in the past decade that might be just as big as Cal Ripken was in Baltimore. You can't just kick him to the curb. Especially when he is still playing like a top MLB.


5. Let Terrell Suggs walk in free agency. He's not a smart player.

How many football players are "smart" ? The guy is 24 years old and a great young player. If you want to go with youth you don't just let guys like him go.



6. Draft a QB in the first round and let him sit for a year while Boller plays out his contract.

Agreed.


7. Build the long-term offense around the new QB, McGahee, Heap, and the young receivers.

I think this was already Ozzies plan from the start when he signed Boller to the 1 year deal.


8. Build the defense around Ed Reed, Bart Scott, and Haloti Ngata.

Don't forget Dawan Landry.


9. Acquire as many high round draft picks as possible and draft replacements for Lewis, McAlister, and Rolle.

You can't get rid of McAlister, he's gettin old but hes still a top CB that can cover any WR on any given day plus he's great against the run.


I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that we won't be contenders this year or for the next few. Let's recognize that and rebuild smartly. I certainly have more faith in Ozzie and the Ravens to do it smartly than I do the Orioles.


We don't need to rebuild really. We just need to get a QB and depth at CB. Martin just isn't very good as was seen last night. And Ivy is a nickle corner at best. Both were exposed and just flat out bad last night.

[NewMarketSean]

Let's not forget that Billick was at one time a OC who knew what he was doing. That hasn't worked here.

I think what needs to happen is we need a HC who can separate himself from the offense. Billick is like the parent who is frustrated his children aren't doing their chores to his liking so he huffs and puffs and then says "get out of my way" and does it himself.

I don't ever think he'll be the kind of guy who can sit back and let another person run their own offense under his watch. That is why I think we need a defensive minded coach as HC. Look at how it's worked for Dungy in Indy. The only difference is, we have the defense already in place.

[doggiedogma]

It seems that D-Will and Clayton get absolutely no separation. When are they ever open 20-25 yards downfield like any other normal team's receivers are? Even with Boller they don't get open much.

Billick isn't callling 2 yard out routes. That is the 3rd-4th option and McNair goes there for some reason 80% of the plays. Is it because they aren't getting open? Because he can't fit it into a tight space right now? What's the problem?

I wish people would stop saying to fire Billick after every bad performance. It gets old. I understand maybe wanting him to get rid of his o-corodinator duties, but he broke every record in Minnesota. The guy isn't an idiot. Something isn't working in this offense and it has to be corrected in the offseason. We need a big play receiver like a Chad Johnson. We NEED that. We also need to stop only using D-Will for jump balls and 30+ yard passes to the sideline that are thrown out of bounds. Mason then becomes a great receiver in the slot and Clayton is involved as well. Add Heap and McGahee and how could we not be a GOOD offense? I don't get it.

Get back to a running game with McGahee to set up the play action

I do believe the offense in Minnesota was Dennis Green's offense, Billick just called the plays. Billick has done as bad as bad can be for 9 years with his offense. He has proven that the lame offense in Baltimore for 9 straight years, is the real Billick; the 1 year flash-in-the-pan, lightening-in-the-bottle season with Minnesota was just that.

[BaltimoreTerp]

You know, if we could get a whole mess of pretty-high draft picks for next year between guys like Suggs, McAllister, Reed, McGahee, Pryce and even for guys that might not have as much value like Lewis, Scott, Mason, Heap and Johnson, it might be something to think about.

I don't know if anyone has ever really tried to rebuild that way, by trading their whole team for draft picks (except me in Madden, of course). I do know that I would want the current administration in place (adding a new offensive coordinator, of course) based on the previous successful rebuilding attempt.

[doggiedogma]

Whether or not it was completely his offense he had a big role in it. The main point is that he is not an idiot and he does know alot about an NFL offense and what it takes to have a successful one. There's no way he is calling 2 yard slants or outs on 80% of the passing plays. Something is very, very wrong somewhere in this offense.

If Billick is not calling the "..2 yard slants or outs on 80% of the passing plays.", who is? The Offensive Coordinator; oh right, that's Billick.

[BaltimoreTerp]

You can't possibly think that Billick is calling plays where the main option is a 2 yard pass. That's ridiculous.

The guys that McNair dumps the ball off to are the last options in the play, but for some reason he resorts to that on the majority of plays. He just does not throw downfield. That is not Billick.

I don't think the ultra-short passes are planned (usually), but I also don't see the other receivers going down the field to open up anything longer. So, when everyone is running mid-range patterns right in the middle of the defense, the short pattern becomes the only option.

[66-70-83-??]

You can't possibly think that Billick is calling plays where the main option is a 2 yard pass. That's ridiculous.

The guys that McNair dumps the ball off to are the last options in the play, but for some reason he resorts to that on the majority of plays. He just does not throw downfield. That is not Billick.

You are correct. Of course it is ridiculous. Billick isn't just calling 2 yd passes.

We just don't know how much of it is play calling vs execution.

Some of the problem is McNair not adjusting at the line of scrimmage and changing the play. McNair has the authority to change the play anytime he wants.

Age may be catching up to McNair and the game is speeding up on him and/or he is losing the ability to read what the defense is giving him.

And on top of that- the offensive line has been in flux and playing poorly for weeks.