Boller's Final Exam

[MPK76]

If he's successful, Boller may be the starter for the rest of the year.


Ravens coach Brian Billick said Boller could finish the season as the starting quarterback, and he didn't definitively answer whether Steve McNair would ever play for the Ravens again.


Billick seemed inclined to let Boller start the rest of the season if the former first-round pick is successful.

"Sure, that's always a possibility," Billick said. "It has to do with Steve's strength, as well, and how we're doing as a team."

McNair's future with the Ravens is more uncertain.


Asked whether McNair would ever play for the Ravens again, Billick said: "That's a question that I really can't answer. Only time will tell that. My admiration for Steve McNair - the champion he's been, the grit, the toughness, the professionalism - is something that I will continue to value. I don't know that anybody can answer that question right now."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.ravens15nov15001520,0,6756088.story

[NewMarketSean]

I agree, this is Boller's last chance as a Raven. I just hope that Billick lets him go out there and play to his strengths instead of asking him to be McNair Part II.

[AgentOrange]

I agree, this is Boller's last chance as a Raven. I just hope that Billick lets him go out there and play to his strengths instead of asking him to be McNair Part II.

They said on CST last night that they were going to open the playbook up to use his strengths (arm, mobility...) So we shall see.

I am eager to see us open the playbook up. We turn the ball over now being conservative, lets let them fly!

[NewMarketSean]

They said on CST last night that they were going to open the playbook up to use his strengths (arm, mobility...) So we shall see.

I am eager to see us open the playbook up. We turn the ball over now being conservative, lets let them fly!

That is good. I just hope they actually do it.

[Old#5fan]

They said on CST last night that they were going to open the playbook up to use his strengths (arm, mobility...) So we shall see.

I am eager to see us open the playbook up. We turn the ball over now being conservative, lets let them fly!

What strengths? He makes throwing a five yard flare pass appear to be the next thing to "Mission Impossible" and his deep passes are lucky to be in the same zip code as the receiver. He is definitely a lot swifter afoot than McNair but to be mobile you have to be able to sidestep by quick and adroit footwork (not necessarily speed) and make a big play out of nothing something he does about as often as winning a road game. His one strength is throwing the 15 yard out pass but of course any defense is going to be sitting on that play which makes him that much easier to defend. I guarantee you Boller taking over will change nothing as far as wins and loses for this team. Its just another waste of time but they have no choice.

[ccbird]

Worst case scenario is Boller playing just well enough that the Raven's feel like he is good enough to start next year or worse beyond next year and don't go after a QB in the draft.

Let them "open up" the playbook. I hope they do so you guys can get a look again at why Billick keeps it simple with Boller. Here is what to look for and take note of:

1. How inaccurate Boller is throwing the ball downfield
2. How often he locks onto his primary receiver and throw picks
3. How often he holds onto the ball too long and takes sacks

[NewMarketSean]

I don't see what people are complaining about.

We know Boller is not a good QB. But the season is over, so there is no reason to play this ball control crap. Just let him go out there, have fun, and make some mistakes. I have no problem with this. He deserves one more shot to see what he can do in extended play.

If in 4 games he's still playing like crap, let Try Smith get some action. There is nothing to lose.

[Old#5fan]

I don't see what people are complaining about.

We know Boller is not a good QB. But the season is over, so there is no reason to play this ball control crap. Just let him go out there, have fun, and make some mistakes. I have no problem with this. He deserves one more shot to see what he can do in extended play.

If in 4 games he's still playing like crap, let Try Smith get some action. There is nothing to lose.

I think there are some people who mistakenly think that Boller is better than he is, especially if you read the Sun forums. There is even a Sun Blog over there pimping Boller as the future starter for now on! I think some people have short term memory loss when it comes to Boller or are just plain out in the O-Zone. Reading that blog has convinced me of it. At least mostly everyone on this forum is much more realistic in their take.

[Miller192]

I'm glad Boller is getting this chance. I think he's grown as a QB and deserves this opportunity. But now it's up to him and there are no more excuses. He's got a good receiving corps, a great running game behind him, and JO back in the lineup along with Todd Heap.

I hope he makes the most of it, but you either got it or you don't. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to be sitting at home Thanksgiving weekend wondering how Troy Smith would do.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I think there are some people who mistakenly think that Boller is better than he is, especially if you read the Sun forums. There is even a Sun Blog over there pimping Boller as the future starter for now on! I think some people have short term memory loss when it comes to Boller or are just plain out in the O-Zone. Reading that blog has convinced me of it. At least mostly everyone on this forum is much more realistic in their take.

Well, there are also a lot of people that refuse to allow for any possibility of Boller being better now then when he was drafted, so it all evens out in the end.

We really have nothing to lose.

Best case, Boller channels Derek Anderson and leads the team on a nice winning streak with his arm, and becomes the future once again.

Probable case, he plays well enough to get the team through this year, but doesn't show enough improvement over the past to win the job for the future.

Lower case, he stinks, the team plays Troy Smith for the last month and goes from there.

Worst case, he plays just well enough to charm the coaches and front office to not make plan for the future (what CCBird said).

[NewMarketSean]

I'm glad Boller is getting this chance. I think he's grown as a QB and deserves this opportunity. But now it's up to him and there are no more excuses. He's got a good receiving corps, a great running game behind him, and JO back in the lineup along with Todd Heap.

I hope he makes the most of it, but you either got it or you don't. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to be sitting at home Thanksgiving weekend wondering how Troy Smith would do.
The most important thing is for Billick to call the right plays.

[NewMarketSean]

Another thing that people are forgetting that we don't need Boller to be Tom Brady. We need him to be a 20 TD, 10-15 INT guy who can makes throws when he needs to. Realistically, he is not far off from that kind of QB if he isn't there already. We have a great RB and a defense that is still dominant when healthy. I think the biggest change this team needs is at the HC level.

[The Wedge]

The most important thing is for Billick to call the right plays.

We're screwed, then.

[Old#5fan]

Another thing that people are forgetting that we don't need Boller to be Tom Brady. We need him to be a 20 TD, 10-15 INT guy who can makes throws when he needs to. Realistically, he is not far off from that kind of QB if he isn't there already. We have a great RB and a defense that is still dominant when healthy. I think the biggest change this team needs is at the HC level.

I absolutely, totally disagree with this. You are still mistakenly stuck in the year 2000 with this distorted view. You cannot possibly expect to beat the Patriots or Colts with a QB performance of what you espouse. It will never come close. You seem to understimate how good the Colts and Patriots are defensively. A QB with those numbers won't be good enough period. Even if this was true, Boller won't ever be that guy as he has too many serious flaws in his game. No head coach can change that either.

[Sports Guy]

You don't have to worry about the Ravens not planning for the future.

[Objectivity]

I absolutely, totally disagree with this. You are still mistakenly stuck in the year 2000 with this distorted view. You cannot possibly expect to beat the Patriots or Colts with a QB performance of what you espouse. It will never come close. You seem to understimate how good the Colts and Patriots are defensively. A QB with those numbers won't be good enough period. Even if this was true, Boller won't ever be that guy as he has too many serious flaws in his game. No head coach can change that either.


I'm confused. You say that Boller can't put up that type of number and that we need to put up those numbers in order to win, then you say that even if Boller puts up those numbers it won't be good enough.

Are you saying that we can't win with those numbers or we can't win with Boller putting up those numbers.

What you said doesn't make any sense unless you're considering only half of the game. The Colts and Patriots are good defensively and that's what makes playing offense against them so difficult. But, a great defense against their offense will hurt them just as much. That's why they're doing so well. Their offense is keeping their defense off the field (NE that is). Keep that defense on the field more and it will start falling out of condition.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I absolutely, totally disagree with this. You are still mistakenly stuck in the year 2000 with this distorted view. You cannot possibly expect to beat the Patriots or Colts with a QB performance of what you espouse. It will never come close. You seem to understimate how good the Colts and Patriots are defensively. A QB with those numbers won't be good enough period. Even if this was true, Boller won't ever be that guy as he has too many serious flaws in his game. No head coach can change that either.

Hate to burst your forty-year bubble, but this guy (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/RivePh00.htm) just beat the Colts.

HIS defense caused six turnovers and beat them up.

[Miller192]

Hate to burst your forty-year bubble, but this guy (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/RivePh00.htm) just beat the Colts.

HIS defense caused six turnovers and beat them up.

BTerp, anything can happen on any given Sunday. I think what Old#5Fan is saying is that we need a dependable QB who can lead this offense to victories and actually win games instead of not screwing it up for the defense.

20 TDs, 15 INTs isn't going to cut it anymore. Our defense is aging, we need to find our Qb of the future.

[BaltimoreTerp]

BTerp, anything can happen on any given Sunday. I think what Old#5Fan is saying is that we need a dependable QB who can lead this offense to victories and actually win games instead of not screwing it up for the defense.

20 TDs, 15 INTs isn't going to cut it anymore. Our defense is aging, we need to find our Qb of the future.

Sure, but that doesn't mean we can't win that way. We can.

Hell, forget the Patriots and Colts. We can beat the Browns, Dolphins, Chargers, Seahawks and Steelers that way.

The QB of the future stuff is next year. Even so, we can reload on defense and go back to dominating that way too, and game managing becomes a VERY effective strategy just like in the past.

[O no]

Sure, but that doesn't mean we can't win that way. We can.

Hell, forget the Patriots and Colts. We can beat the Browns, Dolphins, Chargers, Seahawks and Steelers that way.

The QB of the future stuff is next year. Even so, we can reload on defense and go back to dominating that way too, and game managing becomes a VERY effective strategy just like in the past.

Isn't it already next year?

[Old#5fan]

I'm confused. You say that Boller can't put up that type of number and that we need to put up those numbers in order to win, then you say that even if Boller puts up those numbers it won't be good enough.

Are you saying that we can't win with those numbers or we can't win with Boller putting up those numbers.

What you said doesn't make any sense unless you're considering only half of the game. The Colts and Patriots are good defensively and that's what makes playing offense against them so difficult. But, a great defense against their offense will hurt them just as much. That's why they're doing so well. Their offense is keeping their defense off the field (NE that is). Keep that defense on the field more and it will start falling out of condition.

Glad to clarify for you. I am espousing two things here: 1) Boller is not good enough to even put up those less than impressive numbers that New Market Sean suggests would be good enough, and 2) those numbers are not good enough to get the job done. So in either case it doesn't matter as that is an invalid perspective or take to start with.

[Old#5fan]

BTerp, anything can happen on any given Sunday. I think what Old#5Fan is saying is that we need a dependable QB who can lead this offense to victories and actually win games instead of not screwing it up for the defense.

20 TDs, 15 INTs isn't going to cut it anymore. Our defense is aging, we need to find our Qb of the future.

Miller192 got it it. That is precisely what I am espousing.

[NewMarketSean]

Funny, Tom Brady was in the 20 TD, 10-15 INT range his entire career until this season.

Same thing can be said about OldFan's man-crush, Ben Roethlisberger. However, like Brady, he's blowing up this season but he went 14-1 his rookie year (17 TD, 11 INT) and then won the SB the next year (17 TD, 9 INT). He made the throws he needed to make, handed the ball off more times than not and let his defense hold the lead and win games for him.

If there is a model team we should be trying to emulate with our current personnel, it's the Steelers.

OldFan and a lot of people around here seem to be in the fantasy football mentality that your QB has to throw 30+ TD's and throw less than 10 INT over the course of a season. Look around, there are like 2 QB's who seem to do that each year.

We know Boller will never be that kind of QB, at least not with the system that is in place. He does need to work on accuracy and poise. But he's been improving.

Now, that said I am not saying he's the QB of the future. I am 90% of that as I type this. But when judging him going forward, just remember that we don't need him to be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. That is not the way this team is set up, and shouldn't be. That said we need a new HC who can take advantage of this team's strengths, play to win the game, and be able to make in-game adjustments.

Boller could be a QB on a playoff team, but he does still need to improve a bit to get there. But a lot has to improve around him too.

[66-70-83-??]

Constantly bashing Boller for his performance pre-McNair is stupid.

Boller was set up to fail when he was thrown to the wolves as a starter.

Very, very few QB's start and succeed as a rookie.

He had constant change in OC, QB coach, line, no WR's, etc....

Now, after learning from McNair for 1.5 years- this is the test of what kind of QB he can be.

Hopefully, the O-line will play well enough that they aren't an issue.

Billick MUST open up the offense. Boller is at his best when he can use his two strengths (mobility and arm strength). Let him be a "gunslinger" out there like Favre. Throw the deep ball early and often. He will throw some INT's but he will throw for a lot of deep completions.

Boller has 7 games to prove whether or not he is the answer. We will see what the effect of holding the clipboard for McNair has on slowing the game down for Kyle.

[Old#5fan]

Constantly bashing Boller for his performance pre-McNair is stupid.

Boller was set up to fail when he was thrown to the wolves as a starter.

Very, very few QB's start and succeed as a rookie.

He had constant change in OC, QB coach, line, no WR's, etc....

Now, after learning from McNair for 1.5 years- this is the test of what kind of QB he can be.

Hopefully, the O-line will play well enough that they aren't an issue.

Billick MUST open up the offense. Boller is at his best when he can use his two strengths (mobility and arm strength). Let him be a "gunslinger" out there like Favre. Throw the deep ball early and often. He will throw some INT's but he will throw for a lot of deep completions.

Boller has 7 games to prove whether or not he is the answer. We will see what the effect of holding the clipboard for McNair has on slowing the game down for Kyle.

What have you not yet seen out of Boller? Some here (including your post) seemingly ignore that we have seen Boller already this year as a starter and he still looks the same. He was pretty lousy against the Rams who are a terrible team and against Buffalo when the game was on the line he was simply awful although for most of the game previous to the final series in fairness, was not terrible.

I sure don't get this mindset that is of the venue that Boller is still an unknown quantity or how much he has improved is a vast mystery. Its simply not as he still cannot throw a short or long pass accurately enough to worry any defense and what he does do above average is throw the intermediate range 12-15 yard pass but when a defense knows that is the only strength in his game they sit on those routes. Simply put, Boller is going to be predictably bad. Anyone who expects otherwise just hasn't been paying much attention or is living in denial or the land of wishful thinking!

[NewMarketSean]

What have you not yet seen out of Boller? Some here (including your post) seemingly ignore that we have seen Boller already this year as a starter and he still looks the same. He was pretty lousy against the Rams who are a terrible team and against Buffalo when the game was on the line he was simply awful although for most the game previoius to the final series was not terrible. I don't get this mindset that is of the venue that Boller is an unknown quantity or how much he has improved is a vast mystery. Its not.

We'll know for sure by the end of the season. Boller should start the rest of the games because McNair is clearly finished.

It's also time for him to throw a deep ball and let the WR's go up for it. When Brady does it twice in one game for TD's he's called heroic, but when Boller does it he's called lucky.

Remember, the QB position depends on a lot of other players to execute as well.

[Old#5fan]

Funny, Tom Brady was in the 20 TD, 10-15 INT range his entire career until this season.

Same thing can be said about OldFan's man-crush, Ben Roethlisberger. However, like Brady, he's blowing up this season but he went 14-1 his rookie year (17 TD, 11 INT) and then won the SB the next year (17 TD, 9 INT). He made the throws he needed to make, handed the ball off more times than not and let his defense hold the lead and win games for him.

If there is a model team we should be trying to emulate with our current personnel, it's the Steelers.

OldFan and a lot of people around here seem to be in the fantasy football mentality that your QB has to throw 30+ TD's and throw less than 10 INT over the course of a season. Look around, there are like 2 QB's who seem to do that each year.

We know Boller will never be that kind of QB, at least not with the system that is in place. He does need to work on accuracy and poise. But he's been improving.

Now, that said I am not saying he's the QB of the future. I am 90% of that as I type this. But when judging him going forward, just remember that we don't need him to be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. That is not the way this team is set up, and shouldn't be. That said we need a new HC who can take advantage of this team's strengths, play to win the game, and be able to make in-game adjustments.

Boller could be a QB on a playoff team, but he does still need to improve a bit to get there. But a lot has to improve around him too.

Your last statement is true as was evident by Rex Grossman, but if Boller is the starting QB on an otherwise playoff caliber team, the first thing they would need to do to reach the next level would be to upgrade Boller!:p :D

[Sports Guy]

Anyone who thinks Boller isn't improved or looks the same out there as he did 2-3 years ago is beyond clueless.

He makes some of the same mistakes, i agree but guess what, watch an NFL game that isn't QB'ed by Manning and BRady and you see the same stupid mistakes everywhere.

The QB play in the NFL AS A WHOLE is terrible right now.

[Old#5fan]

We'll know for sure by the end of the season. Boller should start the rest of the games because McNair is clearly finished.

It's also time for him to throw a deep ball and let the WR's go up for it. When Brady does it twice in one game for TD's he's called heroic, but when Boller does it he's called lucky.

Remember, the QB position depends on a lot of other players to execute as well.

The QB position also more strongly depends on a QB with the ability to read a defense, make a play when the pocket breaks down, and throw accurate passes of all types. Boller is far too limited and almost one dimensional in that he cannot make all the throws accurately, he doesn't read defenses all that well, he frequently holds onto the ball to long, often telegraphs his passes never looking past his primary receiver, and/or still too often bolts out of the pocket right into a defender when he needs to step up or sidestep calmly and make a big play that wins games.

Boller may have marginally improved on some of these things but not nearly enough to make him any kind of a threat that a defense has to worry much about. He's almost a non-entity or factor in a game for an opposing defense. It takes zero special preparation to defense Boller, nothing has changed in that regard. I don't need to see him through the end of the season to know for sure. Enough is enough. Yank him at halftime and bring in Troy!:p At least the opposition doesn't have several volumes on his weaknesses like they do with Boller!:eek:

[O no]

Its the reason the Baltimore fans are insane; we do the same things over and over and expect a different result.

I have no problem handing it over to Boller, what choice do I have? But my expectations are low.

[Old#5fan]

Anyone who thinks Boller isn't improved or looks the same out there as he did 2-3 years ago is beyond clueless.

He makes some of the same mistakes, i agree but guess what, watch an NFL game that isn't QB'ed by Manning and BRady and you see the same stupid mistakes everywhere.

The QB play in the NFL AS A WHOLE is terrible right now.

A 5% overall improvement which is about the maximum I have seen from Boller is still not significant enough to make much of a difference. His QB rating isn't that much better than McNair who is finished and who some want to run out of town on a rail. The biggest improvement so far from Boller I have seen is cutting down on his fumbles but that could change in a heartbeat. I can easily envision NE or SD causing Boller to be fumbling like McNair this season.

As I posted on another forum, yes Boller has improved, he has gone from terrible to merely bad. However, when he has to face a top team on the road he will revert back to terrible in a heartbeat. Just mark my words! Expect nothing from Boller and you will be satisfied as that is what you are gonna get!

[NewMarketSean]

A 5% improvement which is about the maximum I have seen from Boller is still not significant enough to make much of a difference. His QB rating isn't that much better than McNair who is finished and who some want to run out of town on a rail. As I posted on another forum, yes Boller has improved, he has gone from terrible to merely bad. However, when he has to face a top team on the road he will revert back to terrible in a heartbeat. Just mark my words!

The biggest difference between McNair and Boller is the fumbles, which aren't factored into QB rating. If they were, McNair would probably have close to the lowest rating a QB can have in the NFL.

Look, I would like to see what Troy Smith can do too. But the bottom line is this. Boller has improved. He has learned from McNair, or so we like to say. He's earned the chance to go out there and play again, so we've got to deal with it. If he stinks, hopefully Billick will do the right thing, and get Smith in there. But to say that Boller doesn't deserve this shot, is crazy. I don't think many people are saying that but they are still complaining about it, which is useless. Just be prepared for more of the same and be pleasantly surprised if he performs above expectations.

In other words, we have nothing to lose. And sometimes that can be fun to watch.

[Old#5fan]

The biggest difference between McNair and Boller is the fumbles, which aren't factored into QB rating. If they were, McNair would probably have close to the lowest rating a QB can have in the NFL.

Look, I would like to see what Troy Smith can do too. But the bottom line is this. Boller has improved. He has learned from McNair, or so we like to say. He's earned the chance to go out there and play again, so we've got to deal with it. If he stinks, hopefully Billick will do the right thing, and get Smith in there. But to say that Boller doesn't deserve this shot, is crazy. I don't think many people are saying that but they are still complaining about it, which is useless. Just be prepared for more of the same and be pleasantly surprised if he performs above expectations.

In other words, we have nothing to lose. And sometimes that can be fun to watch.

I agree but what annoys me is those who seem to think that Boller is somehow going to or has the ability to magically improve. It is those people with selective amnesia or induced baseless wishful thinking, that I don't want to see complaining when Boller plays to his capabilities which is all he's ever going to do. The problem is he simply is not capable of doing what even Derek Anderson is doing as his game is seriously flawed.

I don't know how anybody doesn't realize that by now. Boller has a proven history of not elevating his game against elite teams. After the Browns he will be facing a string of elite teams. So in fact, Boller will be fully exposed for all his glaring weaknesses in those games. You can take it to the bank. Those defenses are going to eat Boller alive.

[NewMarketSean]

I agree but what annoys me is those who seem to think that Boller is somehow going to has the ability to magically improve. It is those people with selective amnesia or induced baseless wishful thinking, that I don't want to see complaining when Boller plays to his capabilities which is all he's ever going to do. The problem is he simply is not capable of doing what even Derek Anderson is doing as his game is seriously flawed.

I don't know how anybody doesn't realize that by now. Boller has a proven history of not elevating his game against elite teams. After the Browns he will be facing a string of elite teams. So in fact, Boller will be fully exposed for all his glaring weaknesses in those games. You can take it to the bank. Those defenses are going to eat Boller alive.

Well, you are on the complete opposite side of the spectrum from the people you speak of. You think they are crazy to believe Boller will magically improve, but you take as radical a stance to think that he will continue to be the horrible QB you think he is.

He's probably going to be what he's always been since 2004, which is a mediocre QB, with flashes of brilliance and lapses as well.

[Sports Guy]

Old Fan, you always point to QB rating...Do you know how they figure it out? Do you even know what it entails?

Most experts and former players feel that QB rating is a joke.

Since I assume you have no clue what it entails, here is the formula that they use:

http://brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html

[NewMarketSean]

Old Fan, you always point to QB rating...Do you know how they figure it out? Do you even know what it entails?

Most experts and former players feel that QB rating is a joke.

Since I assume you have no clue what it entails, here is the formula that they use:

http://brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html

Interesting. I put in some Bolleresque numbers to see what his rating would be.

And I think we would all be pretty happy if he did the following over the course of a season.

Attempts 500
Completions 300
Yards 3200
TD's 20
INT's 14

His rating would be a whopping 80.41. Not far from what it is now.

[Miller192]

Interesting. I put in some Bolleresque numbers to see what his rating would be.

And I think we would all be pretty happy if he did the following over the course of a season.

Attempts 500
Completions 300
Yards 3200
TD's 20
INT's 14

His rating would be a whopping 80.41. Not far from what it is now.

I hope you're not saying that those numbers are "Bolleresque." The guy has thrown for no more than 2,500 yards in a season and I believe has a slight advantage in TD to INT rate, something like +3. I can't predict that future, but past performance does seem to indicate future success in the NFL.

[Sports Guy]

I hope you're not saying that those numbers are "Bolleresque." The guy has thrown for no more than 2,500 yards in a season and I believe has a slight advantage in TD to INT rate, something like +3. I can't predict that future, but past performance does seem to indicate future success in the NFL.

Of course, looking at his performance in the past, with the way he was thrown in there, the weapons and line around him and the system, may be unfair to him.

[Miller192]

Of course, looking at his performance in the past, with the way he was thrown in there, the weapons and line around him and the system, may be unfair to him.

I can agree with that, but I don't think you can realisticly expect him to have career highs in evey category like Sean has. Especially under the current offensive system.

[O no]

Interesting. I put in some Bolleresque numbers to see what his rating would be.

And I think we would all be pretty happy if he did the following over the course of a season.

Attempts 500
Completions 300
Yards 3200
TD's 20
INT's 14

His rating would be a whopping 80.41. Not far from what it is now.
.
Boller's rating has never been over 72 in a season he was the OD Starter, never thrown more then 13 Td's, that yardage is a joke for this guy, but the Int are like his:)

I am not sure what side of the debate you are on.
I guess you feel Boller can lead us to a SB Victory if we have the best defense ever to take the field, allowing the fewest pts in history and the 5th ranked running game with over 2100 rushing yard, since you compare everything back to 2000, when a wild card team ran the table.

Times have changes, teams have evolved, and we are trying to do the same thing over and over. It is imperative we have a balanced air attack, Boller can not provide this in anything I have seen so far.

We saw this again on Sunday, no pressure the game was over and Boller does his happy feet dance, throws off his back foot, into coverage for a pick. These are mechanical and mental issues that he has yet to overcome and I have lost faith he ever will.

[Sports Guy]

I can agree with that, but I don't think you can realisticly expect him to have career highs in evey category like Sean has. Especially under the current offensive system.

3200 yards and 20 TD's isn't that big of a deal.

I am not saying he would have those numbers but its not like he is saying 4000 yards and 25-28 td's.

[Miller192]

3200 yards and 20 TD's isn't that big of a deal.

I am not saying he would have those numbers but its not like he is saying 4000 yards and 25-28 td's.

Well, only 11 QB's threw for 3,200 yards last year and only 10 threw for 20 or more TD's. By putting Boller in that category you are assuming (not that you are) that he is a top-10 QB. I think we can agree that he's not at that level.

Look, being a PSL holder I would love nothing more than to be wrong about him. He has three things working against him: the system, an inconsistent O-line and himself. I just don't see how he is going to get there.

[O no]

Well, only 11 QB's threw for 3,200 yards last year and only 10 threw for 20 or more TD's. By putting Boller in that category you are assuming (not that you are) that he is a top-10 QB. I think we can agree that he's not at that level.

Look, being a PSL holder I would love nothing more than to be wrong about him. He has three things working against him: the system, an inconsistent O-line and himself. I just don't see how he is going to get there.

Not sure if Bollers is the victim either, like I mentioned above we had the 11th ranked passing attack in the same system last year and J-Lew would tell you how good the line was. I think you hit it with himself.

[NewMarketSean]

.
Boller's rating has never been over 72 in a season he was the OD Starter, never thrown more then 13 Td's, that yardage is a joke for this guy, but the Int are like his:)

I am not sure what side of the debate you are on.
I guess you feel Boller can lead us to a SB Victory if we have the best defense ever to take the field, allowing the fewest pts in history and the 5th ranked running game with over 2100 rushing yard, since you compare everything back to 2000, when a wild card team ran the table.

Times have changes, teams have evolved, and we are trying to do the same thing over and over. It is imperative we have a balanced air attack, Boller can not provide this in anything I have seen so far.

We saw this again on Sunday, no pressure the game was over and Boller does his happy feet dance, throws off his back foot, into coverage for a pick. These are mechanical and mental issues that he has yet to overcome and I have lost faith he ever will.

So you're going to focus on one play in garbage time? Regardless of how bad you think Boller is, that's a pretty dumb thing to do. And if you are going to put stock in that play, think of this. It was the first INT that Boller can be blamed for this season. Both the others came from passes that should have been caught.

And if you think that we wouldn't be a good team with our defense healthy, our running attack with McGahee, and Boller putting up the numbers I said he would, then I don't know what you expect. I think that would be a pretty tough team to beat. Like it was last year when McNair threw for 3,050 yards and had 16 TD's to 12 INT's.

[Miller192]

So you're going to focus on one play in garbage time? Regardless of how bad you think Boller is, that's a pretty dumb thing to do. And if you are going to put stock in that play, think of this. It was the first INT that Boller can be blamed for this season. Both the others came from passes that should have been caught.

And if you think that we wouldn't be a good team with our defense healthy, our running attack with McGahee, and Boller putting up the numbers I said he would, then I don't know what you expect. I think that would be a pretty tough team to beat. Like it was last year when McNair threw for 3,050 yards and had 16 TD's to 12 INT's.

Ok, fine. If Boller puts up career high numbers we would be tough beat. Let's see him put up those numbers.

[O no]

So you're going to focus on one play in garbage time? Regardless of how bad you think Boller is, that's a pretty dumb thing to do. And if you are going to put stock in that play, think of this. It was the first INT that Boller can be blamed for this season. Both the others came from passes that should have been caught.

And if you think that we wouldn't be a good team with our defense healthy, our running attack with McGahee, and Boller putting up the numbers I said he would, then I don't know what you expect. I think that would be a pretty tough team to beat. Like it was last year when McNair threw for 3,050 yards and had 16 TD's to 12 INT's.

Garbage time for who??? Are you suggesting our offense quit? The receiver stopped the route? Not sure how ‘its garbage time’ makes it ok to do a tap dance, throw like a flamingo and right to a defender. Boller was not a victim of the time left in the game or scoreboard. If anything, Boller was placed in a non pressure situation and he couldn’t handle it.

[MP]

Old Fan, you always point to QB rating...Do you know how they figure it out? Do you even know what it entails?

Most experts and former players feel that QB rating is a joke.

Since I assume you have no clue what it entails, here is the formula that they use:

http://brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html

Who thinks it's a joke? It's passer rating, not QB rating. You can't just rank the passer ratings and pretend you're ranking the QB's, I hope nobody is trying that. But it's a pure measurement of passing only, and in that respect I like it - the formula is hard to fool. For example you can boost your completion % with little dump-offs under the sticks, but you'll get nailed in yards per attempt.

[NewMarketSean]

Garbage time for who??? Are you suggesting our offense quit? The receiver stopped the route? Not sure how ‘its garbage time’ makes it ok to do a tap dance, throw like a flamingo and right to a defender. Boller was not a victim of the time left in the game or scoreboard. If anything, Boller was placed in a non pressure situation and he couldn’t handle it.

So you expect a QB's play to be the same when he comes into a game that is already over with 4 mins left, versus starting the game himself?

And if you want to use Boller's time in that game as an example, his pass to Clayton, that should have been a TD, was a nice pass. So you've got to take the good with the bad.

[Old#5fan]

Garbage time for who??? Are you suggesting our offense quit? The receiver stopped the route? Not sure how ‘its garbage time’ makes it ok to do a tap dance, throw like a flamingo and right to a defender. Boller was not a victim of the time left in the game or scoreboard. If anything, Boller was placed in a non pressure situation and he couldn’t handle it.

Absolutely true. There were no expectations of Boller other than try to prevent a shutout against a vanilla prevent defense which even Randy Cross commented about. Even so, Boller tried to force a pass right into a receiver he had to be blind not to see was clearly not open resulting in an easy pick.

[Old#5fan]

So you expect a QB's play to be the same when he comes into a game that is already over with 4 mins left, versus starting the game himself?

And if you want to use Boller's time in that game as an example, his pass to Clayton, that should have been a TD, was a nice pass. So you've got to take the good with the bad.

The problem with your last assertion is when it comes to Boller there is almost always more bad than good except for a handful of games where he apparently got lucky against very inferior competition. He's just a poor excuse for an NFL starting QB. He's okay to backup for a quarter or so or in a mop up role. Thats about it when it comes to his so-called value as a player.

[NewMarketSean]

Absolutely true. There were no expectations of Boller other than try to prevent a shutout against a vanilla prevent defense which even Randy Cross commented about. Even so, Boller tried to force a pass right into a receiver he had to be blind not to see was clearly not open resulting in an easy pick.

QB's throw a lot of picks when they are playing from behind, because they pass more. They even force things more often because they have no choice. This is common sense. If you want to pick on Boller, at least realize that you're picking on him for the same things that most QB's do in those situations. So he made a good pass and a bad pass in garbage time. Who cares?

Let's see what he does this week against a bad Browns defense and go from there.


The problem with your last assertion is when it comes to Boller there is almost always more bad than good except for a handful of games where he apparently got lucky against very inferior competition. He's just a poor excuse for an NFL starting QB. He's okay to backup for a quarter or so.

It's funny, for all your Boller hatred you'd think you would point fingers at the people who drafted him and have stuck with him throughout that career. Where is that criticism? Why do you want Billick to be kept? He single-handedly lobbied to draft Boller. Ozzie allowed him to do it. Yet I never hear you blast them for choosing Boller. All you do is harp on the same old stuff. And you know what? Boller is trying. He's playing the best he can. He gets up from sacks, never points fingers and stays positive even when the fans are cheering his injury.

Can you blame me for cheering the guy on and hoping he succeeds?

Maybe he isn't good enough. But all you're doing with your Boller hatred is showing us what kind of person you really are. Get mad at the people in charge. Get mad if Boller looks like he's dogging it. But for crying out loud, cut the same old "Boller sucks" routine. It's old. It's been old. For about 3 years.

And man, I hope that even at my worst, I was never as predictable as OldFan has been with Boller. If I was, I am sorry.

[MP]

Absolutely true. There were no expectations of Boller other than try to prevent a shutout against a vanilla prevent defense which even Randy Cross commented about. Even so, Boller tried to force a pass right into a receiver he had to be blind not to see was clearly not open resulting in an easy pick.

Oldfan, I tried to send you a private message but it said you had exceeded your space.

[Old#5fan]

Oldfan, I tried to send you a private message but it said you had exceeded your space.

Thanks. I will delete some old pm's and free up the space. Sorry.

[NewMarketSean]

Funny, Oldfan never replied to my last post. I am VERY interested in hearing what he has to say to the questions I posed to him.