For what it's worth part 2....

[Belkast]

Please take this with a grain of salt!!! I spoke to my guy again today and I was told that a Bedard deal could be anytime in the next few days between the Dodgers, Mariners, and now the Reds. I was told the team really wants to move him this week so they can turn their attention to other things. I was also told that once Bedard goes, Roberts to the Cubs will almost immediatley follow. From what he is saying we could have 2 signifigant moves by the end of the week. I also received confirmation via Bigbird that he was hearing the same thing. Just thought I would pass it along!!!!!!!

[shroombal]

Please take this with a grain of salt!!! I spoke to my guy again today and I was told that a Bedard deal could be anytime in the next few days between the Dodgers, Mariners, and now the Reds. I was told the team really wants to move him this week so they can turn their attention to other things. I was also told that once Bedard goes, Roberts to the Cubs will almost immediatley follow. From what he is saying we could have 2 signifigant moves by the end of the week. I also received confirmation via Bigbird that he was hearing the same thing. Just thought I would pass it along!!!!!!!


Do you know what some of the packages might involve??

[cborgans1]

Thanks belkast...should be interesting

[Captain E.]

Awesome, I finish classes today, so now I can just stake out on the Hangout for the rest of the week and wait for news :)

[UMterp08]

Roberts to the Cubs scares me. anything not including Pie will disappoint me. Of course if they end up with Fukodome, it all might work out.

thanks Belkast for the info.

[Sports Guy]

What is going on with Miggy Belkast?

[NATTYBO's]

Please take this with a grain of salt!!! I spoke to my guy again today and I was told that a Bedard deal could be anytime in the next few days between the Dodgers, Mariners, and now the Reds. I was told the team really wants to move him this week so they can turn their attention to other things. I was also told that once Bedard goes, Roberts to the Cubs will almost immediatley follow. From what he is saying we could have 2 signifigant moves by the end of the week. I also received confirmation via Bigbird that he was hearing the same thing. Just thought I would pass it along!!!!!!!

Thanks Belkast - In your opinion what is the least we will settle for from each of these teams? Will the dodgers give up Kemp and LaRoche + 2prospects?

[NewMarketSean]

I wonder if this means that Santana will be traded too. We've always heard that once he is dealt all other moves will start to happen. Of course, they said that about the MCab trade too.

[Dr. FLK]

Please take this with a grain of salt!!! I spoke to my guy again today and I was told that a Bedard deal could be anytime in the next few days between the Dodgers, Mariners, and now the Reds. I was told the team really wants to move him this week so they can turn their attention to other things. I was also told that once Bedard goes, Roberts to the Cubs will almost immediatley follow. From what he is saying we could have 2 signifigant moves by the end of the week. I also received confirmation via Bigbird that he was hearing the same thing. Just thought I would pass it along!!!!!!!

So you're hearing that they will select the best offer from those 3 teams by the end of the week, or thereabouts? Any word on which team is currently in the lead?

[TinCup]

Trade Bedard.

Trade Roberts.

Trade Miggy.

Trade Mora.

Dump/trade one or more of the following if at all possible: Millar/Huff/Gibbons/Payton/Hernandez.

Stay the course with these trades above!!! Rebuild it, and they will come. ;)

[Captain E.]

Roberts to the Cubs scares me. anything not including Pie will disappoint me. Of course if they end up with Fukodome, it all might work out.

thanks Belkast for the info.

I second this opinion, and I'll be sad about it no matter what the return. The only consolation I have is that I'm in Illinois for grad school for the next 5 years so I can still watch him :) Maybe I'll pick up a spiffy new blue #1 jersey.. haha.

[66-70-83-??]

Roberts to the Cubs scares me. anything not including Pie will disappoint me. Of course if they end up with Fukodome, it all might work out.

thanks Belkast for the info.

I would like Pie too.

But, if we get a CF (Jones for ex) then we don't really need Pie.

A package of three from: Murton, Gallagher, Veal, Patterson, Marmol would be good.

[NATTYBO's]

Roberts to the Cubs scares me. anything not including Pie will disappoint me. Of course if they end up with Fukodome, it all might work out.

thanks Belkast for the info.

Hill + prospect would be a great return for Roberts

[Belkast]

What is going on with Miggy Belkast?

Still talking with the Angels and "possibly" including him in a deal with Bedard.

[Jimmy Mad]

Fukudome should make up his mind in the next couple of days, likely Cubs or Padres.

[El Gordo]

Please take this with a grain of salt!!! I spoke to my guy again today and I was told that a Bedard deal could be anytime in the next few days between the Dodgers, Mariners, and now the Reds. I was told the team really wants to move him this week so they can turn their attention to other things. I was also told that once Bedard goes, Roberts to the Cubs will almost immediatley follow. From what he is saying we could have 2 signifigant moves by the end of the week. I also received confirmation via Bigbird that he was hearing the same thing. Just thought I would pass it along!!!!!!!Apparantly Roch agrees or maybe he just has the same insiders.
"There are people close to the Orioles who anticipate a trade going down this week. They don’t know the particulars, but something could happen within the next few days."
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/roch/blog/2007/12/this_and_that_32.html

[NATTYBO's]

I would like Pie too.

But, if we get a CF (Jones for ex) then we don't really need Pie.

A package of three from: Murton, Gallagher, Veal, Patterson, Marmol would be good.

If we can get 5 back for roberts I'll start believe in Orioles Magic again:D

[NATTYBO's]

Trade Bedard.

Trade Roberts.

Trade Miggy.

Dump/trade one or more of the following if at all possible: Millar/Huff/Gibbons/Payton/Hernandez.
Stay the course with these trades above!!! Rebuild it, and they will come. ;)

Don't forget about Mora

[TinCup]

Don't forget about Mora

How could I forget?? :o

Fixed it. :)

[Sports Guy]

If we can get 5 back for roberts I'll start believe in Orioles Magic again:D

Re-read what he said....

[cindyluvsbrady]

Please take this with a grain of salt!!! I spoke to my guy again today and I was told that a Bedard deal could be anytime in the next few days between the Dodgers, Mariners, and now the Reds. I was told the team really wants to move him this week so they can turn their attention to other things. I was also told that once Bedard goes, Roberts to the Cubs will almost immediatley follow. From what he is saying we could have 2 signifigant moves by the end of the week. I also received confirmation via Bigbird that he was hearing the same thing. Just thought I would pass it along!!!!!!!

Please God,NO:002_scry: Im pleading!
I will die if Brian Roberts is gone!:002_ssad:
I know its not your fault Belkfast.....I dont believe in killing the messenger!;)

[Believer]

Thanks Belkast. Have you heard whether or not we're considering taking back any veterans (salary dumps) in these deals or if we'll be receiving prospects only?

[bgtimber75]

Why am I starting to think that we're going to dump Tejada for a bag of balls? How the mighty have fallen.

[bigbird]

Still talking with the Angels and "possibly" including him in a deal with Bedard.

Good chance Bedard and Miggy to the Dodgers.

[Boy Howdy]

I still want Pie too.

The Cubs hitting instructor has already made two trips to work with him this winter in the Dominican League. If Pie responds to what they want him to do, they say he could be a Kenny Lofton type hitter.

I found that interesting. Never imagined Pie as Lofton-esque before.

Another report I read said that if the O's get Pie, Baltimore will get to watch the best defensive centerfielder in orange & black since Paul Blair.

[Zanetheo'sfan]

Please God,NO:002_scry: Im pleading!
I will die if Brian Roberts is gone!:002_ssad:
I know its not your fault Belkfast.....I dont believe in killing the messenger!;)

Cindy, look up pictures of Matt Murton and Joey Votto, just to get a taste of what they look like. You may like one of them more than you do Brian, and besides its best for the team, you don't want us being horrible for another twenty years do you?

[bgtimber75]

Please God,NO:002_scry: Im pleading!
I will die if Brian Roberts is gone!:002_ssad:
I know its not your fault Belkfast.....I dont believe in killing the messenger!;)

Good thing you didn't change you name to Cindyluvsbrian. :p

[Mashed Potatoes]

When threads have sequels or become trilogies they should be required to have movie titles.

"FWIW 2: THIS TIME IT'S PERSONAL!"

[NATTYBO's]

Why am I starting to think that we're going to dump Tejada for a bag of balls? How the mighty have fallen.

I'm starting to feel the same way but there are too many teams that can use him not to get anything back - If we can get Wood we should run:D

[ChaosLex]

Please take this with a grain of salt!!! I spoke to my guy again today and I was told that a Bedard deal could be anytime in the next few days between the Dodgers, Mariners, and now the Reds. I was told the team really wants to move him this week so they can turn their attention to other things. I was also told that once Bedard goes, Roberts to the Cubs will almost immediatley follow. From what he is saying we could have 2 signifigant moves by the end of the week. I also received confirmation via Bigbird that he was hearing the same thing. Just thought I would pass it along!!!!!!!

Thanks for the info. Here's hoping!

[bigbird]

If we can get 5 back for roberts I'll start believe in Orioles Magic again:D

Pie and Prior are some names being talked about for Roberts.

[NATTYBO's]

Good chance Bedard and Miggy to the Dodgers.

If we send them both there do you see us getting Kemp and Kershaw back??

[Birds08]

Good chance Bedard and Miggy to the Dodgers.

So I gues MacPhail will have to weight whatever he can get back from LAD for those two guys, vs. what he can get individually from Cincinnati, Seattle, etc. for Bedard plus what he can get individually from trading Tejada to any of his few suitors. I'm tempted to think we will get more value separating them, but I could be wrong, especially since it seems the market for Tejada is incredibly small.

[TinCup]

Good chance Bedard and Miggy to the Dodgers.
In keeping with the season...


Strike up "Handel's Messiah" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnHksDFHTQI) (Hallelujah)

:D

[Boy Howdy]

- If we can get Wood we should run:D

I agree...run in the other direction.

[Zanetheo'sfan]

Pie and Prior are some names being talked about for Roberts.

I'd seriously love to get Mark Prior. I think that he'd be perfect to have being he still hasn't reached his ceiling even though he's 26, and could become great if we don't abuse him like Dusty did.

[Scribo]

Good chance Bedard and Miggy to the Dodgers.

Oh boy oh boy oh boy...

The potential return on that one could be scary.

(We are now about to have another 85 posts on possible combinations).

[NATTYBO's]

Pie and Prior are some names being talked about for Roberts.

I would rather have someone younger like Gallagher

[ChaosLex]

Pie and Prior are some names being talked about for Roberts.

Excellent. I'd love to take a chance with Prior.

[Scribo]

So I gues MacPhail will have to weight whatever he can get back from LAD for those two guys, vs. what he can get individually from Cincinnati, Seattle, etc. for Bedard plus what he can get individually from trading Tejada to any of his few suitors. I'm tempted to think we will get more value separating them, but I could be wrong, especially since it seems the market for Tejada is incredibly small.

Not if it puts us over the top for what we want from the Dodgers.

Now please let it NOT be a reliever.

[TGO]

I'd seriously love to get Mark Prior. I think that he'd be perfect to have being he still hasn't reached his ceiling even though he's 26, and could become great if we don't abuse him like Dusty did.

Except that he will be rehabbing most of this year and then will be a FA. And he won't give the Cubs a one year extension, which is why they're trying to get rid of him.

[Zanetheo'sfan]

How many years does Prior have left on his contract?

[ChaosLex]

Some of the people over at MLBTradeRumors don't think we'll get much in a return for Bedard, because it's "obvious" we have to trade him. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/mailbag-bedard.html#comments

[Birds08]

I'd rather stay away from Prior unless he's a throw in.

[markdublya]

Good chance Bedard and Miggy to the Dodgers.

Between the two of you guys, this has 20 pages written all over it...;) :p

[MCO'sFan]

Good chance Bedard and Miggy to the Dodgers.This makes a lot of sense. They may be willing to give up a little more if they are getting both of them. It is kind of the reverse Marlins/Detroit deal. This time the pitcher is a the top of his game and the position player is a little down.

[UMterp08]

Pie and Prior are some names being talked about for Roberts.

excellent. We won't get both, but I'd be happy with either.

[thomden]

Except that he will be rehabbing most of this year and then will be a FA. And he won't give the Cubs a one year extension, which is why they're trying to get rid of him.

Maybe it is the only way we get Pie.

[S'GOS]

Still talking with the Angels and "possibly" including him in a deal with Bedard.

I like this a lot, and talks of both Bedard and Miggy have to be exclusively with the Dodgers, right?

I still think the Dodgers have the most to offer, and throwing Miggy in may tip the scales for Kershaw, LaRoche, and Kemp plus some maybe one (or 2?) more of Hu, Broxton, Loney, etc. Heck, I might just do it for the Big 3 if they pick up Tejada's salary.

Torre's got be pushing for this trade, I am sure he wants to be set up to win a World Series ASAP to stick it to the Yanks, and Miggy and Bedard make the Dodgers scary!

[Peace21]

My guy is telling me we will get a good return from the Cubs. MacPhail and Hendry respect one another and arent going to fleece each other.

[blueberryale77]

Pie and Prior are some names being talked about for Roberts.

Isn't Prior about to be non-tendered if they can't dump him in a package? Sure he was once very good but the chances of him returning to that level are very low. At best I see the rest of his career looking something like Jaret Wright. He shouldn't be the #2 player in the deal, it should be Pie + a healthy lesser prospect + Prior if he must be included.

[blahblah]

Please God,NO:002_scry: Im pleading!
I will die if Brian Roberts is gone!:002_ssad:
I know its not your fault Belkfast.....I dont believe in killing the messenger!;)

Cindy, I assure you. You won't die. All things pass.

Elliot

[bgtimber75]

excellent. We won't get both, but I'd be happy with either.

You'd be happy with Roberts for Prior or a package with Prior as the big get? I'm not sure there is anyone that would agree with that. Looks like Prior would be a throw in with Pie.

[cindyluvsbrady]

Cindy, look up pictures of Matt Murton and Joey Votto, just to get a taste of what they look like. You may like one of them more than you do Brian, and besides its best for the team, you don't want us being horrible for another twenty years do you?

Its not his looks that matter,Its his beautiful heart!:002_ssad:
Of I course I want to win the WS!

[crstrobel]

My guy is telling me we will get a good return from the Cubs. MacPhail and Hendry respect one another and arent going to fleece each other.


Like the Trax trade??;)

[ChaosLex]

Its not his looks that matter,Its his beautiful heart!:002_ssad:
Of I course I want to win the WS!

Unfortunately, we're not going to do that unless we rebuild.

[amateurfan]

Pie and Prior are some names being talked about for Roberts.

I don't know why we would want Prior back. What is it going to cost to have Prior on the team? I can only see doing it to get Pie, because, from what I've read, the Cubs don't want Prior.

[Dr. FLK]

Between the two of you guys, this has 20 pages written all over it...;) :p

20? It has 4 pages in about 7 minutes...I'll take the "over".

[blueberryale77]

excellent. We won't get both, but I'd be happy with either.

Are you aware that Prior hasn't pitched in a year and a half because he had major shoulder surgery? :confused: :rolleyes:

[SoBo]

The addition of Miggy to a Dodgers deal seems to signal LaRoche being added to the package. I also don't see the problem in taking a flier on Prior, if he's a throw in with Pie for Brob. Maybe you get lucky like St. Louis did with Carpenter.

[TGO]

Isn't Prior about to be non-tendered if they can't dump him in a package? Sure he was once very good but the chances of him returning to that level are very low. At best I see the rest of his career looking something like Jaret Wright. He shouldn't be the #2 player in the deal, it should be Pie + a healthy lesser prospect + Prior if he must be included.

I could see something like Pie, Gallagher, Prior going down.

[cindyluvsbrady]

Cindy, I assure you. You won't die. All things pass.

Elliot

I dont know.A person can die from a broken heart!:(

[JTrea81]

Excellent. I'd love to take a chance with Prior.

My guess is a trade for Roberts will go down before Wednesday then because Prior has to be tendered a contract by then...

[Birds08]

Some of the people over at MLBTradeRumors don't think we'll get much in a return for Bedard, because it's "obvious" we have to trade him. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/mailbag-bedard.html#comments

They may be right about Tejada, but there is no way they are right about Bedard. Our position doesn't really matter when there are 10 teams all trying to trade for him. We would only be in a weak position if there was only one team vying for him.

[Captain E.]

Its not his looks that matter,Its his beautiful heart!:002_ssad:
Of I course I want to win the WS!

Cindy, you have to admit, he'd look pretty cute in blue and red ;) Plus, the O's play at Wrigley next summer so you can come out and pay him a visit!

As for me, Roberts is and will be my favorite player in the league regardless of which team he's on, so I wish him the best of luck.

[blueberryale77]

I could see something like Pie, Gallagher, Prior going down.

That I could live with. Pie I don't like but he's a prized prospect, Gallagher should be a solid mid-late rotation starter, and Prior is a big gamble but could miraculously return to his old form. It's taking some risks, but allows the potential that the team will really be improved.

[NJOriolesFan]

I would love to see Kershaw/Billingsley, Kemp/Ethier, LaRoche, Broxton and Hu
for Tejada and Bedard.

And then, Patterson, Pie and Prior for Roberts.

Then trade Mora, Huff, Payton, Hernandez, Millar etc for whatever value we can.

Maybe Millar for Kyle Farnsworth and cash.

Maybe Mora for Ryan Madson.

Bullpen:
Broxton
Walker
Bradford
Farnsworth
Madson
Hoey
F.Cabrera/Burress

Rotation:
Cabrera
Guthrie
Loewen
Prior
Billingsley/Kershaw/Penn/Olson/Liz


I'd be almost tempted to let Weiters be our catcher and Reimold be our DH to start the season and see how we do in 2008.

C-Weiters
1b-Moore
2b-Patterson
3b-LaRoche
ss-Hu
lf-Kemp/Ethier
cf-Pie
rf-Markakis
dh-Reimold

bench-Quiroz, Bynum, Redman, House/Knott-type.

[blahblah]

Oh yeah, this is the thread I'm hoping goes nuclear while I am at work tonight.

Elliot

[ChaosLex]

They may be right about Tejada, but there is no way they are right about Bedard. Our position doesn't really matter when there are 10 teams all trying to trade for him. We would only be in a weak position if there was only one team vying for him.

Agreed about Tejada. The eyerolling was reserved solely for the idea that Bedard should be traded for another team's crap.

[amateurfan]

My guy is telling me we will get a good return from the Cubs. MacPhail and Hendry respect one another and arent going to fleece each other.

Didn't McPhail already fleece Hendry? Maybe Hendry did not consider the Trachsel trade a fleece, but it worked out exceedingly well for us.

[NATTYBO's]

Are you aware that Prior hasn't pitched in a year and a half because he had major shoulder surgery? :confused: :rolleyes:

I think he's pitched in the minors but he couldn't throw that hard (Below 90)

[NATTYBO's]

I could see something like Pie, Gallagher, Prior going down.

This would make the most sense - McPhail is really high on Gallagher - Pie basically would be a throw in

[blahblah]

I dont know.A person can die from a broken heart!:(

Only in really bad plays and movies. I've yet to see this in the limited time of my 30 years.

Don't you want Brian to be happy too??

Elliot

[Peace21]

Didn't McPhail already fleece Hendry? Maybe Hendry did not consider the Trachsel trade a fleece, but it worked out exceedingly well for us.

At the time, Hendry really wanted Trax

[Birds08]

Agreed about Tejada. The eyerolling was reserved solely for the idea that Bedard should be traded for another team's crap.

Haha yea I know. Those comments on MLBTR are always entertaining.

[OSfanfromCT]

Didn't McPhail already fleece Hendry? Maybe Hendry did not consider the Trachsel trade a fleece, but it worked out exceedingly well for us.

give it five minutes before davearm responds to this...if he hasn't already while I'm typing this up.

[Sports Guy]

BRob for Pie and Prior.

Tejada and Bedard for LaRoche, Kemp, Meloan, Hu and one of the top pitching prospects they have..Prefer to stay away from Elbert though.

I would still like to see us add Loaiza in a Dodgers deal.

If you were able to pull off those 2 trades, that would be something else.

[Leitch]

When threads have sequels or become trilogies they should be required to have movie titles.

"FWIW 2: THIS TIME IT'S PERSONAL!"

FWIW: THE RETURN OF BIGBIRD'S REVENGE

[tywright]

How is it possible for us to get Prior?!

[Pedro Cerrano]

BRob for Pie and Prior.

Tejada and Bedard for LaRoche, Kemp, Meloan, Hu and one of the top pitching prospects they have..Prefer to stay away from Elbert though.

I would still like to see us add Loaiza in a Dodgers deal.

If you were able to pull off those 2 trades, that would be something else.

Why oh why are people on here happy about getting Prior?! As far as I'm concerned he is merely a throw-in considering the fact that he is hurt and by the time he gets healthy, he won't be under our control?

This looks like Pie for Roberts and we should be able to get more, either EPat or Murton.

[OSfanfromCT]

BRob for Pie and Prior.

Tejada and Bedard for LaRoche, Kemp, Meloan, Hu and one of the top pitching prospects they have..Prefer to stay away from Elbert though.

I would still like to see us add Loaiza in a Dodgers deal.

If you were able to pull off those 2 trades, that would be something else.

Do you like Prior over Gallagher? Or do you think Pie and Gallagher is too much for Brob? I just want a guy w/ a better health record than Prior, as much as I'd love to get Prior, want more of a sure thing for Brob, personally.

[El Gordo]

I dont know.A person can die from a broken heart!:(Cindy you just become a Cubs fan as well. You can go to a Cubs board and when they play Philly or the Gnats you can go see your Brian in person. How many O's games do you go to now?:)

[B-more]

BRob for Pie and Prior.

Tejada and Bedard for LaRoche, Kemp, Meloan, Hu and one of the top pitching prospects they have..Prefer to stay away from Elbert though.

I would still like to see us add Loaiza in a Dodgers deal.

If you were able to pull off those 2 trades, that would be something else.

When you say top pitching prospects...is your thinking that it is Elbert or McDonald or another pitcher and not Kershaw/Billingsley?

[SoxHotCorner]

How is it possible for us to get Prior?!

Because we'd be eating some salary and his previous injuries.

[Peace21]

Pie/Gallagher would be very nice

[NJOriolesFan]

Why oh why are people on here happy about getting Prior?! As far as I'm concerned he is merely a throw-in considering the fact that he is hurt and by the time he gets healthy, he won't be under our control?

This looks like Pie for Roberts and we should be able to get more, either EPat or Murton.


So, I assume that you have no problem with my proposed deal of Roberts for Pie, Patterson and Prior? However, I would rather it be Pie, Gallagher and Prior but I don't think that is likely.

[hoosiers]

I am very much interested in how this goes down.

A deal with the Dodgers could be very exciting if they get Miggy as well. This might go back to whether we have to absorb Pierre though perhaps Billingsley and Broxton are excluded. Hopefully, we raid their farm system in return.

Interesting that Anaheim could sit on their prospects again.

I love to open 08 with an OF of Kemp, Pie and Markakis.

I'm sure Prior is a throw-in and not any major part of a BRob deal. We have the $ to invest in waiting for Prior - possibly the Cubs don't.

[Hank Scorpio]

Good chance Bedard and Miggy to the Dodgers.

Wonder what that translates to in terms of return...

Obviously the Dodgers are our best target.

[Terminal Frost]

It's weird reading a thread where guys aren't being referred to as "Rickey" and "Sanchez."

[Hank Scorpio]

My guy is telling me we will get a good return from the Cubs. MacPhail and Hendry respect one another and arent going to fleece each other.

*cough cough* Trachsel *cough*

[Matos #1 Fan]

Does any one think offering up Tejada and Bedard give us any chance to get Loney?

[Pedro Cerrano]

Does any one think offering up Tejada and Bedard give us any chance to get Loney?

I'm sure we could get him, but just have to settle for less players, which is not a smart move.

Loney had a huge second half last year, and has a good shot at being an all-star in 2008. The price on him is probably equivalent to our price on Markakis, if not higher.

[davearm]

You guys can have Prior, but that's a waste of your money. I can't imagine him signing a FA contract with you guys in a year. He almost certainly wants to be in California, preferrably in the NL.

I can't see Hendry giving a lot in addition to Pie, if he's willing to give Pie in the first place.

JMHO, but the O's would be smarter to get something like Patterson, Gallagher, Murton than Pie and Prior. If Pie busts you've got nothing. All three of the other guys are better bets to give you something valuable, albeit with lower ceilings.

[olehippi]

[QUOTE=Hank Scorpio;1123837]Wonder what that translates to in terms of return...QUOTE]

Obviously you must have skipped the previous 6 pages.....:p

[Greg Pappas]

Please take this with a grain of salt!!! I spoke to my guy again today and I was told that a Bedard deal could be anytime in the next few days between the Dodgers, Mariners, and now the Reds. I was told the team really wants to move him this week so they can turn their attention to other things. I was also told that once Bedard goes, Roberts to the Cubs will almost immediatley follow. From what he is saying we could have 2 signifigant moves by the end of the week. I also received confirmation via Bigbird that he was hearing the same thing. Just thought I would pass it along!!!!!!!

As always... thanks.

This is my best guess as to which deals are pending...

Seattle: Bedard for CF Jones/RHP Morrow/C-1B Clement
Cincinnati: Bedard for RHP Bailey/CF Hamilton/3B Francisco
Dodgers: Bedard for LHP Kershaw/3B LaRoche/OF Ethier
Dodgers: Bedard/Tejada for LHP Kershaw/3B LaRoche/OF Ethier/SS Hu/RHP McDonald

[Frobby]

I will be glad when these deals are done so that the rampant speculation and endless permutations of who we might receive in exchange will be at an end. I started a thread a few days back predicting that major moves would get done before Christmas because of the practical need to move on to Round 2. Looks like my (non-insider) guess may prove correct.

[Hank Scorpio]

As always... thanks.

This is my best guess as to which deals are pending...

Seattle: Bedard for CF Jones/RHP Morrow/C-1B Clement
Cincinnati: Bedard for RHP Bailey/CF Hamilton/3B Francisco
Dodgers: Bedard for LHP Kershaw/3B LaRoche/OF Ethier
Dodgers: Bedard/Tejada for LHP Kershaw/3B LaRoche/OF Ethier/SS Hu/RHP McDonald

I would assume that this is pretty damn close considering Kemp & Kershaw "won't" be in the same deal.

That haul for Tejada & Bedard would be more than acceptable for me.

[Peace21]

So whats everyones guess when the first deal will go down?

[tywright]

You guys can have Prior, but that's a waste of your money. I can't imagine him signing a FA contract with you guys in a year. He almost certainly wants to be in California, preferrably in the NL.

I can't see Hendry giving a lot in addition to Pie, if he's willing to give Pie in the first place.

JMHO, but the O's would be smarter to get something like Patterson, Gallagher, Murton than Pie and Prior. If Pie busts you've got nothing. All three of the other guys are better bets to give you something valuable, albeit with lower ceilings.

Then we'll get draft picks for Prior when he becomes a Type A after a great 2008 season.

[Zanetheo'sfan]

So whats everyones guess when the first deal will go down?

I'm gonna be extremely optimistic and say 7.

[Pedro Cerrano]

So whats everyones guess when the first deal will go down?

Based on what I've read, Bedard should be dealt within the next two weeks.

[Big Mac]

So whats everyones guess when the first deal will go down?

18th, but I'm more interested to hear your guess.

[Sports Guy]

Pie/Gallagher would be very nice

Yea, this would be my preference as well.

I wouldn't mind taking the chance on Prior at all but would like more of a sure thing as the second piece.

[Mashed Potatoes]

FWIW: THE RETURN OF BIGBIRD'S REVENGE

FWIW: TRADE THREE OR DIE BEDARD

FWIW: THE BEDARD REDUNDANCY

FWIW: CANADIAN BACON

FWIW: BEDARDER THEY COME, TEJADA THEY FALL

and in the near future...

FWIW 3: ULTIMATE WORTH

[TGO]

Then we'll get draft picks for Prior when he becomes a Type A after a great 2008 season.

There's about a 0.1% chance Mark Prior is a Type A after 2008.

[Birds08]

So whats everyones guess when the first deal will go down?

Today or tomorrow wouldn't surprise me. I truly don't see any reasons that this should be drawn out, as I mentioned in the thread yesterday. There is enough competition that drawing it out won't be advantageous, and teams want to move on, as Frobby mentioned.

[AgentOrange]

So whats everyones guess when the first deal will go down?

Wednesday December 12th, 4:20pm

[TGO]

FWIW: TRADE THREE OR DIE BEDARD

FWIW: THE BEDARD REDUNDANCY

FWIW: CANADIAN BACON

FWIW: BEDARDER THEY COME, TEJADA THEY FALL

and in the near future...

FWIW 3: ULTIMATE WORTH

FWIW: DOMINOES FALL

FWIW 2: DUDE WHERE'S MY DOMINO?

FWIW 3: RETURN OF THE PROCESS

[TonySoprano]

Fwiw Ii: Macfailure Is Not An Option !

[Belkast]

Today or tomorrow wouldn't surprise me. I truly don't see any reasons that this should be drawn out, as I mentioned in the thread yesterday. There is enough competition that drawing it out won't be advantageous, and teams want to move on, as Frobby mentioned.

There really is NO reason to draw it out. From my understanding we have the best offers on the table and we are now talking internally to make the decision.

[Peace21]

Wednesday December 12th, 4:20pm

Of course youd pick the specific time..:)

[AgentOrange]

Of course youd pick the specific time..:)

Well that is what makes it fun! Hopefully it happens before that though!

I am happy they are looking to move Roberts right after Bedard. It makes sense and shows that they are looking to take their best pieces and try and rebuild from them.

I like this direction. It has been a long time coming and I hope they pull it off. It would be exciting to watch some more kids with potential moving forward.

[Frobby]

There really is NO reason to draw it out. From my understanding we have the best offers on the table and we are now talking internally to make the decision.

Belkast: you don't have to tell us the details, but have you been told what has been offered in exchange, and do you feel we will be getting good value?

[Camden_yardbird]

Then we'll get draft picks for Prior when he becomes a Type A after a great 2008 season.

Those ratings are based on the past two years. So how did Prior do this year. Don't really like him in the deal at all unless hes a throw in.

[Greg Pappas]

So whats everyones guess when the first deal will go down?

This Thursday the 13th. :)

[JTrea81]

So whats everyones guess when the first deal will go down?

I'll say it will happen when the board crashes. At least that's how I'll know... :)

[Hank Scorpio]

There really is NO reason to draw it out. From my understanding we have the best offers on the table and we are now talking internally to make the decision.

So, where does Bedard land in your opinion?

To me, combining Bedard & Tejada in the same deal with the Dodgers is the most intelligent move.

I'll say if they go separately, Bedard ends up in Seattle.

Together, the Dodgers.

[AgentOrange]

Belkast: you don't have to tell us the details, but have you been told what has been offered in exchange, and do you feel we will be getting good value?

I have a feeling what the Cubs have offered for Roberts is going to effect where Bedard goes.

I have a feeling they are looking at the pieces we get from the Cubs and looking at how they match up with the offers we recieved for Bedard. Hearing about Miggi maybe included in the Bedard trade makes me wonder if we really know what type of value we would get from other teams with that package or if we have to do some more Miggi selling on our part.

[Peace21]

This Thursday the 13th. :)

We should know whose on the Mitchell Report by then.

[Three Run Homer]

Its not his looks that matter,Its his beautiful heart!:002_ssad:
Of I course I want to win the WS!

I will second the fact that BRob is a good guy. He showed up at a Special Olympics Charity walk this past Spring (along with Jay Gibbons) and signed autographs, even though he had the flu.

Still, a trade is probably best for both the O's and BRob given the direction the O's are going in. Brian should be able to play for a contender at this point in his career, and the O's should be looking to build for the future given that they don't have the horses to contend for a couple of years at least.

[OsandBohs11]

Hey Belkast, Great news.

you said Roberts would go soon afterwards, does that mean Angelos is really going to let that happen? I would be surprised to say the least.

BTW, anyomne else glad thjat we didn't trade Roberts and Penn for Laroche and Giles last year? Giles is horrible now and Laroche wouldn't help us rebuild, I can say thanks to PA for that one.

[NATTYBO's]

Of course youd pick the specific time..:)

DECEMBER THE 10TH AT 5PM

[Belkast]

Belkast: you don't have to tell us the details, but have you been told what has been offered in exchange, and do you feel we will be getting good value?

Thank you. Yes, I was told the players, and yes, I like it!!!

[SoxHotCorner]

I'm saying he'll be dealt by Saturday.

[Belkast]

Hey Belkast, Great news.

you said Roberts would go soon afterwards, does that mean Angelos is really going to let that happen? I would be surprised to say the least.

BTW, anyomne else glad thjat we didn't trade Roberts and Penn for Laroche and Giles last year? Giles is horrible now and Laroche wouldn't help us rebuild, I can say thanks to PA for that one.

Angelos gave his blessing of the general plan along time ago!

[Greg Pappas]

We should know whose on the Mitchell Report by then.

Interesting.

[ntimadater3]

i havent seen this no where if we get back the dodgers package of kemp laroche, hu and kershaw could we flip kershaw for votto

[PlumOriole]

I could see something like Pie, Gallagher, Prior going down.

I would be very happy with that deal. Say hello to our new closer if that's the deal. His days of starting are overy IMHO.

[NATTYBO's]

Thank you. Yes, I was told the players, and yes, I like it!!!

Again you don't have to give specifics but out of the REDS, Mariners and dodgers deal, which one would you take?

[dslats715]

Mmm I'd love to see it happen tonight

Exam week + Ravens being bad = I need something good :D

[OsandBohs11]

Thank you. Yes, I was told the players, and yes, I like it!!!

Would you be able to grace us with the offers that we are deciding between?

[Belkast]

Again you don't have to give specifics but out of the REDS, Mariners and dodgers deal, which one would you take?

I've liked the Dodgers from the beginning and still like them.

[S'GOS]

Pie and Prior are some names being talked about for Roberts.

Prior eh? Riskyyyyyyyyy.

I was hoping Gallagher. I will take Pie, but I am not a fan of him. Over hyped. What about Soto? Is he off limits? I know he is a catcher, but the kid can hit. Maybe throw Ramon in the trade?

[NATTYBO's]

I've liked the Dodgers from the beginning and still like them.

I agree they have the most pieces that fill our needs

[Scribo]

So whats everyones guess when the first deal will go down?

Page 32 of this thread.

[Camden_yardbird]

Dierks (MLBTR) is reporting that his Reds source is about 75% sure the Reds will land Bedard FWIW

[JTrea81]

I just find it extremely amazing that MacPhail has been able to keep basically this whole deal under wraps from the media.

[Jagwar]

Thank you. Yes, I was told the players, and yes, I like it!!!

We don't want to put you in a bad position. Just tell us, do they rhyme with Shemp, Pershaw, Phoney, Schmoo, Foxton, Frillingsley... ;)

[Scribo]

Dierks (MLBTR) is reporting that his Reds source is about 75% sure the Reds will land Bedard FWIW

That's not his "source." He's regurgitating a story that was published yesterday. Link has been put on this board about three times now.

[TinCup]

Patience grasshoppers!!! Patience.

[T2E2C]

Please take this with a grain of salt!!!

Why the "grain of salt!!!" ?? Sounds like you are skeptical? :confused:

[HeatherC12]

It's all going to start on my birthday this week because that's how my luck has been going this year. I'm on board with rebuilding and everything (and I'd love to see Erik pitching for the Reds if it actually happens) but I really didn't want to see Brian go to the Cubs. As (I think) the only Reds fan here, Brian would now have to play against my hometown team 15-18 times a year. I would love seeing him but I definitely won't be able to root for him as much anymore because he'd be playing for a division rival. It all makes sense for the Orioles but it really sucks for me. The players that they get for him better play really well because the city isn't going to forget this trade for a while IMO.

BTW-My birthday is Wednesday, December 12th. Gee, the Mitchell report and a Brian trade in one week.....happy birthday to me. :002_ssad:

[hoosiers]

B, any chance we take on or exchange bad contracts like Pierre/Mora?

I would like to think any deal with EB and Miggy should start with Kemp/Kershaw, IMO. I'd also like to see two of - in order - LaRoche, Hu and Elbert.

[Hank Scorpio]

We don't want to put you in a bad position. Just tell us, do they rhyme with Shemp, Pershaw, Phoney, Schmoo, Foxton, Frillingsley... ;)

Oh man, what I wouldn't give to get Schmoo...

[Birdbrain]

Belkast, as always, thanks for the info. I have 1 question, if you can answer great if you can't thats OK. Is it a 3 for 1 deal,4/1, 4/2, 5/2 or none of the above? Thanks

[dabirds]

We don't want to put you in a bad position. Just tell us, do they rhyme with Shemp, Pershaw, Phoney, Schmoo, Foxton, Frillingsley... ;)

Is it Sanchez and Ricky for Sam, Lou, Thomas, Ernie, and Smith? ;)

[Belkast]

Why the "grain of salt!!!" ?? Sounds like you are skeptical? :confused:

It's for the people that need me to say that!

[66-70-83-??]

Dierks (MLBTR) is reporting that his Reds source is about 75% sure the Reds will land Bedard FWIW

Tell the Reds that 75% doesn't cut it, that means they likely aren't getting him.

Wanna make it 100% ? Add Bruce to the deal. :D

[NATTYBO's]

Why the "grain of salt!!!" ?? Sounds like you are skeptical? :confused:

Some people take what the "insiders" say too seriously

[Jagwar]

Oh man, what I wouldn't give to get Schmoo...

The old Schmoo was a scrub, but the new Schmoo is a future all-star

[YardBirds13]

I'm gonna make a guess:

Tejada and Bedard to the Dodgers for:

Kemp, LaRoche, Hu, McDonald/Elbert/Meloan (preference in that order) and a fifth guy that we haven't talked about that comes out of nowhere.

Taht's my guess.

[tennOsfan]

I just find it extremely amazing that MacPhail has been able to keep basically this whole deal under wraps from the media.

If it doesn't involve the Red Sox or Yankees, the national media doesn't care.

And you don't know whether the local media has heard this or not. They probably have, but likely are waiting for more confirmation to ensure it's done deal.

[JTrea81]

I'm gonna make a guess:

Tejada and Bedard to the Dodgers for:

Kemp, LaRoche, Hu, McDonald/Elbert/Meloan (preference in that order) and a fifth guy that we haven't talked about that comes out of nowhere.

Taht's my guess.

Considering the two trades are linked I would say we are getting back one of Delwyn Young, Blake DeWitt or Tony Abreu in the deal to play 2nd...

[Birdbrain]

I'm gonna make a guess:

Tejada and Bedard to the Dodgers for:

Kemp, LaRoche, Hu, McDonald/Elbert/Meloan (preference in that order) and a fifth guy that we haven't talked about that comes out of nowhere.

Taht's my guess.

That's what I would like to see.

[WietersCorner]

I want Bailey/Votto/Cueto for Bedard

[cindyluvsbrady]

It's all going to start on my birthday this week because that's how my luck has been going this year. I'm on board with rebuilding and everything (and I'd love to see Erik pitching for the Reds if it actually happens) but I really didn't want to see Brian go to the Cubs. As (I think) the only Reds fan here, Brian would now have to play against my hometown team 15-18 times a year. I would love seeing him but I definitely won't be able to root for him as much anymore because he'd be playing for a division rival. It all makes sense for the Orioles but it really sucks for me. The players that they get for him better play really well because the city isn't going to forget this trade for a while IMO.

BTW-My birthday is Wednesday, December 12th. Gee, the Mitchell report and a Brian trade in one week.....happy birthday to me. :002_ssad:

Pray HARD it doesnt happen!!!:002_ssad: Im sorry about your birthday!

[WebLink21]

I'm gonna make a guess:

Tejada and Bedard to the Dodgers for:

Kemp, LaRoche, Hu, McDonald/Elbert/Meloan (preference in that order) and a fifth guy that we haven't talked about that comes out of nowhere.

Taht's my guess.


I really think that is too much. Kemp is already establishing himself as a good player and LaRoche, Hu, and Kershaw are their top 3 prospects if I remember reading it somewhere. I would love to see us get that package, but I just think some people on here are aiming way too high.

[T2E2C]

Please take this with a grain of salt!!!

Maybe with the new birds they'll regularly take infield practice and even play pepper before games. ;)

[dabirds]

It seems to me that Bedard's worth on this board has dropped considerably since this all started a few weeks ago. Most wanted Kemp, Kershaw, LaRoche, and Broxton - now people are saying they'd be happy with Kershaw, Ethier, Meloan, McDonald. I'm hoping beyond hope that McPhail really wows us here and gets something closer to the first option above. I'm wondering if he could be shrewd enough to steal Loney away from them somehow.

This trade will go a LONG way in establishing the legacy of McPhail and I'm thinking (actually hoping) that he will surprise a lot of people. I also think that Bedard's, Tejada's, and Robert's values are more than people here think.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Pray HARD it doesnt happen!!!:002_ssad: Im sorry about your birthday!

Do you want the O's to win or not?

[mweb]

Belkast, thanks for the info, can you give any info on who is being offered. Kemp?

[bej6789]

If the Reds are offering Cueto, Bailey and Votto... which they should be... then I'm alllllllllllllllllllll over that deal. Two 21 year old pitchers who have the potential and the makeup to be nasty for a long time. Throw in Votto who's good for a ton of walks and 25 HR's in Camden yards and its an even better deal. If we can put the pressure on the Dodgers with this one, hopefully we can get Kemp, Kershaw, Laroche and Broxton.

[srock]

I believe Bedard to the Dodgers makes the most sense. For this reason, I will not at all be surprised if Seattle or the Reds or some other team lurking in the shadows does something totally desperate and stupid resulting in a huge return to Baltimore.

But, due to sheer practicality I still think Bedard goes to the Dodgers, with or without Tejada. I don't know for who, any of the combinations posted thus would not surprise me, and I think it happens this week. Enough teams are involved and all these teams have other needs to take care of. It all comes to a head sometime this week.

[ijoshyounot]

Hey Insiders. Any chance we flip any of the guys we get to another team? It sounds like there might be something in the works where we flip someone from the Dodgers to the Cubs with Roberts.

[TinCup]

I can't believe I am going to do this, go WAY WAAAY out on a limb and proclaim that if the trade goes down, whoever we get back, there will be those who will love the deal, and those who will hate it. The OH! Ya gotta love it. :cool:

[Ruzious]

If the Reds are offering Cueto, Bailey and Votto... which they should be... then I'm alllllllllllllllllllll over that deal. Two 21 year old pitchers who have the potential and the makeup to be nasty for a long time. Throw in Votto who's good for a ton of walks and 25 HR's in Camden yards and its an even better deal. If we can put the pressure on the Dodgers with this one, hopefully we can get Kemp, Kershaw, Laroche and Broxton.
Which brings to mind the song "It's gonna take a miracle."

I think we're getting Adam Jones in a package from Seattle - just a gut feeling.

[Sports Guy]

If we get Pie and Jones, i hope we put Jones at SS.

[WietersCorner]

I feel like we are looking to flip Broxton in a Bedard deal to the Cubs with Roberts. That is what is holding up any deal. They want to make sure the Cubs will give fair value for Broxton/Roberts.

[Scribo]

If we get Pie and Jones, i hope we put Jones at SS.

In that case, I hope Jones can actually play SS.

[OsandBohs11]

Where do you see that Jones plays SS?

[orioles119]

Where do you see that Jones plays SS?
Jones played SS in the minors, most recently in 2005...


2003 Az Marin Ariz 17 Sea Rk ss 28 109 18 31 5 1 0 8 5 1 5 19 10 0 3 1 1 .284 .368 .349 717 --
Everett Nwest 17 Sea A- ss 3 13 2 6 1 0 0 4 0 0 1 3 0 0 0 1 1 .462 .467 .538 1005 --
2004 Wisconsin Midw 18 Sea A ss 130 510 76 136 23 7 11 72 8 4 33 124 5 0 4 7 13 .267 .314 .404 718 --
2005 Inl Empire Calif 19 Sea A+ ss 68 271 43 80 20 5 8 46 4 5 29 64 8 0 2 5 4 .295 .374 .494 868 --
SanAntonio Tex 19 Sea AA ss 63 228 33 68 10 3 7 20 9 4 22 48 3 1 2 2 4 .298 .365 .461 826 --
2006 Tacoma PCL 20 Sea AAA of 96 380 69 109 19 4 16 62 13 4 28 78 6 0 1 1 12 .287 .345 .484 829 --
Seattle AL 20 Sea MLB log cf 9 32 74 6 16 4 0 1 8 3 1 2 22 0 0 0 0 3 .216 .237 .311 548 60%
2007 Tacoma PCL 21 Sea AAA 101 420 75 132 27 6 25 84 8 7 36 106 11 1 0 2 7 .314 .382 .586 968 --
Seattle AL 21 Sea MLB 41 65 16 16 2 1 2 4 2 1 4 21 1 0 1 0 0 .246 .300 .400 700 --
Major League Totals - 2 Season(s) 73 139 22 32 6 1 3 12 5 2 6 43 1 0 1 0 3 .230 .267 .353 620 60%
Minor League Totals - 5 Season(s) 489 1931 316 562 105 26 67 296 47 25 154 442 43 2 12 19 42 .291 .354 .476 830 --

[WebLink21]

If we get Pie and Jones, i hope we put Jones at SS.

I can see wanting to do this, but I get really excited thinking about how good of a defensive outfield we could have with Markakis, Jones, and Pie all out there!

[TGO]

Where do you see that Jones plays SS?

Jones was drafted as a SS and played there professionally until 2006, when he switched because the Mariners have Yuniesky Betancourt.

[Ruzious]

Where do you see that Jones plays SS?
He played it all the way through AA. I have no idea if he could be a good ML SS, but I'd salivate at the thought.

[Sports Guy]

He was apparently a very good fielding SS as well.

Great arm and very good range.

[droper]

I'm guessing the Reds, they seem less protective of their prospects/young players (Bailey, Hamilton, Encanarcion and Votto) than the Dodgers (Broxton,Kemp and Kershaw) and the NL Central seems more winnable than the NL West (albiet by very little) with the addition of a single stud pitcher. The money saved on not paying FA prices for Bedard may allow them to add another SP from the thin FA crop as well.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20071209/COL09/712090377/
"In fact, there are people in the organization confident that the deal will get done. One rated the chances at 75 percent."

[PoorMike]

I agree w/Dave on Prior: it's a no win situation.

Either he comes and is Jaret Wright junior, or he's healthy, pitches well, and leaves to sign a FA deal with a western team. Either way, what was the point in getting him.

[Scribo]

He was apparently a very good fielding SS as well.

Great arm and very good range.

This could be scary good.

Even if he never hit quite at Bruce's level, it would push Jones's value right up there.

Still do think this will go down to the Dodgers, with us getting more or less what we want.

[JTrea81]

I agree w/Dave on Prior: it's a no win situation.

Either he comes and is Jaret Wright junior, or he's healthy, pitches well, and leaves to sign a FA deal with a western team. Either way, what was the point in getting him.

Prior has ties with MacPhail and Kranitz from the Cubs organization. Kranitz was the assistant MiL pitching coordinator during Prior's rise to the ML level.

[OsandBohs11]

Jones playing SS is very interesting, if would justify getting Jones and Pie as SportsGuy said. But who would play 2nd?

[osfansince85]

OT: It just toook me 40 min to read through this entire thread, actually read and think about every post. CRAZY.

I'm really hoping we stay away from the Mariners.

I'd be happy with getting Kemp/Kershaw/Broxton/Hu for Bedard and Tejada

[TGO]

Jones playing SS is very interesting, if would justify getting Jones and Pie as SportsGuy said. But who would play 2nd?

If they manage to get Jones and Pie they can platoon Bynum and Hernandez at 2nd for all I care. ;) Maybe Patterson would be the third guy in the deal. Maybe we can unload Payton or Mora for a AAAA type 2B.

[Big Mac]

If they manage to get Jones and Pie they can platoon Bynum and Hernandez at 2nd for all I care. ;) Maybe Patterson would be the third guy in the deal. Maybe we can unload Payton or Mora for a AAAA type 2B.

Congrats on 5,000 posts.:)

[Ruzious]

If they manage to get Jones and Pie they can platoon Bynum and Hernandez at 2nd for all I care. ;) Maybe Patterson would be the third guy in the deal. Maybe we can unload Payton or Mora for a AAAA type 2B.
Yeah, I think 2B is the easiest position to fill. You can always find someone who's not far below the ML average.

[TGO]

Congrats on 5,000 posts.:)

Thanks. lol, didn't even realize, otherwise I might not have said something like "I don't care if they platoon Bynum and LH at second."

[MikeAD]

Taking the risk of repeating somethign that has been said in the 13 pages:

Do we know the possible trade for Roberts with the Cubs?

[Hank Scorpio]

Taking the risk of repeating somethign that has been said in the 13 pages:

Do we know the possible trade for Roberts with the Cubs?

No, we don't.

We do know that two names that have been mentioned are Pie & Prior.

[BeerIsFood]

To all the insiders: I don't ever ask you questions, and don't plan to, just thanks alot for all the info you give when you do. I like the ambiguity of it all personally, its much better than just coming out and saying it, which you really couldn't do anyway. In any case, thanks alot. To me, this is what makes the offseason fun.

[MikeAD]

No, we don't.

We do know that two names that have been mentioned are Pie & Prior.

Thanks, thats what I had last heard, hoping it had changed to get rid of Prior, but oh well.

Bring on Pie!!

[boz445504]

In keeping with the season...


Strike up "Handel's Messiah" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnHksDFHTQI) (Hallelujah)

:D

That is what I was thinking when I first read the post and the possiable transactions that will follow.

[srh523]

Looks like there are lots of spies from the Reds board here!

[theobird]

You guys can have Prior, but that's a waste of your money. I can't imagine him signing a FA contract with you guys in a year. He almost certainly wants to be in California, preferrably in the NL.

I can't see Hendry giving a lot in addition to Pie, if he's willing to give Pie in the first place.

JMHO, but the O's would be smarter to get something like Patterson, Gallagher, Murton than Pie and Prior. If Pie busts you've got nothing. All three of the other guys are better bets to give you something valuable, albeit with lower ceilings.

Dave!!! You and I agree on something. Finally. I don't want any part of Pie. He has very obvious athletecism, and will play an exceptional defensive CF. No doubt about that. But IMO, he will not hit. He will have no plate discipline. From watching him, I don't think he has any pitch recognition at all. I see Pie as a major bust. And I like Murton. I would way rather have Murton, Gallagher and EPat. No question about that.

[PlumOriole]

OT: It just toook me 40 min to read through this entire thread, actually read and think about every post. CRAZY.

I'm really hoping we stay away from the Mariners.

I'd be happy with getting Kemp/Kershaw/Broxton/Hu for Bedard and Tejada

If Tejada's in the deal I would think LaRoche is coming back.

[olehippi]

I think what we have here are 13 pages of extreme premature speculation (not the term I wished to use). While I do believe trades will be made as Belkast and BB have stated, wading through page after page of hyperbole in search of the next clue....or possibly, the answer!!.....has left me drained of all expectation. When done, any trades of Bedard, Tejada, and Roberts will definitely be anti-climatic.

[Frobby]

I think what we have here are 13 pages of extreme premature speculation (not the term I wished to use). While I do believe trades will be made as Belkast and BB have stated, wading through page after page of hyperbole in search of the next clue....or possibly, the answer!!.....has left me drained of all expectation. When done, any trades of Bedard, Tejada, and Roberts will definitely be anti-climatic.

Yeah, I always have an anti-climax after premature speculation.

[Belkast]

Yeah, I always have an anti-climax after premature speculation.

Are we still talking about this thread, or are we talking about everyone's weekend?:D

[olehippi]

After a brief pause for humor to ease the tension, it's back into the fray.....:D

[Hank Scorpio]

Are we still talking about this thread, or are we talking about everyone's weekend?:D

My weekend was much more exciting than that!!!

:D

I think that everyone's just kinda holding their collective breath. These trades have been discussed ad naseum for months, we're all just anxious for some resolution.

[Belkast]

For what it's worth... Rosenthal is now talking about the possibility of Bedard and Tejada to the Dodgers! Does he read our board?:D

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7548574

[caljr]

I would imagine that Rosenthal and many other big wheel media types do read this board from time to time.... but Rosenthal is consistantly one of if not the best at breaking news about possible deals. If memory serves me right, he was the first to break the Tejada deal when we signed him as a free agent. Hopefully Rosenthal's sources are telling him about this possible deal and he is not just steeling the Hangout scoop.

[raypetty]

For what it's worth... Rosenthal is now talking about the possibility of Bedard and Tejada to the Dodgers! Does he read our board?:D

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7548574


Must be talking about this link: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7548574?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

The Orioles, according to sources, also are entertaining the idea of packaging Bedard with shortstop Miguel Tejada to yield an even higher return. Such a proposal would make particular sense for the Dodgers, who have the need for both players and the young talent to make such a deal occur.

[LookitsPuck]

Must be a lot of premature speculation involving some Wood discussions here and there. :D

[Frobby]

Must be a lot of premature speculation involving some Wood discussions here and there. :D

That remark rubs me the wrong way.

[AgentOrange]

I am not sure if anyone has touched on this yet, but the deal that the Reds inside source had talked about being 75% probability of happening would be Votto, Hamilton and Bailey for Bedard.

I heard that on XM on the ride home.

[Stevo5278]

Jones playing SS is very interesting, if would justify getting Jones and Pie as SportsGuy said. But who would play 2nd?

Brandon Fahey!!

[square634]

I am not sure if anyone has touched on this yet, but the deal that the Reds inside source had talked about being 75% probability of happening would be Votto, Hamilton and Bailey for Bedard.

I heard that on XM on the ride home.

Sign me up!

[RShack]

I dont know.A person can die from a broken heart!
Only in really bad plays and movies. I've yet to see this in the limited time of my 30 years.
Nope, it happens all the time. Somebody dies, and within 6 months the surviving spouse dies too. Most often that's not a physical thing. It's a being-intertwined thing. Part of you dies, sometimes the other part dies too. Certainly not always. But it's not a rare thing by any means.

[erb8472]

Sign me up as well. I think Bailey is going to be a monster. Votto would give us the firstbaseman we've needed for quite sometime.

Not so sold on Hamilton. Yes he did have a very good season last year, but I'd prefer someone younger.

[Sports Guy]

I am not sure if anyone has touched on this yet, but the deal that the Reds inside source had talked about being 75% probability of happening would be Votto, Hamilton and Bailey for Bedard.

I heard that on XM on the ride home.

If this is true and they think it is 75% done, my guess is they don't think the Dodgers will step up and match this.

Question is, what if the Dodgers take Tejada and offer more? Will the Reds then replace Hamilton with Bruce?

[orifan]

To any of the insiders, are the Mariners and Dodgers waiting for Kuroda to sign before they go ahead with their proposed deals? Thanks!

[monstermjp]

Must be a lot of premature speculation involving some Wood discussions here and there. :D

He said Wood. Hu, Hu, Hu,Hu, Hu. Yea, yea, Wood.

[erb8472]

If this is true and they think it is 75% done, my guess is they don't think the Dodgers will step up and match this.

Question is, what if the Dodgers take Tejada and offer more? Will the Reds then replace Hamilton with Bruce?

I dont think they will include Bruce, but I think we should ask for Encarnacion back as well as Hamilton.

Bailey, Votto, Hamilton, and Encarnacion. Encarnacion fell out of favor some last season and was even sent to the minors because of his defense at 3B. I think this is a realistic package and would be fair for both sides. Now if they dont want to give up Bailey in that package I'd obviously take Cueto.

[Lucky Jim]

Nope, it happens all the time. Somebody dies, and within 6 months the surviving spouse dies too. Most often that's not a physical thing. It's a being-intertwined thing. Part of you dies, sometimes the other part dies too. Certainly not always. But it's not a rare thing by any means.

I think you'd need to do a probabilistic study with multiple regressions to determine that a "broken heart" kills anyone. If the probability is higher that someone is going to die within 6 mos. anyway (because, say, both parties are in their 80s) then it could just be coincidence when one party dies on the heels of another. I mean, how often does it happen? And what's the relative life-expectancy of someone whose the same age w/o a spouse?

When an 88 year old husband dies a half year after his 87 year old wife, I have a hard time thinking "heart break" and a pretty easy time thinking "old age," "life," "our finite nature," etc.

Just saying, RShack - you're skeptical about all sorts of things that get thrown around on here. But you're just accepting "heartbreak" as a way of dying?

[Fairfax Bird]

If this is true and they think it is 75% done, my guess is they don't think the Dodgers will step up and match this.

Question is, what if the Dodgers take Tejada and offer more? Will the Reds then replace Hamilton with Bruce?


I really don't think they will give up Bruce. At which point I am asking for a fourth piece.

Votto, Hamilton, Bailey, pitching prospect ...

If it is Bedard + Tejada do we get the 5 propsects in return?

Kershaw, Either, LaRoche, Hu, Meloan?

I think I would do that deal as well.

[Boy Howdy]

Just saying, RShack - you're skeptical about all sorts of things that get thrown around on here. But you're just accepting "heartbreak" as a way of dying?

Have you ever listened to country music? I'm not a big fan, but a guy based in Gulf Shores, AL might have been influenced by one of the 174,678 country songs in the dying of heartbreak genre.

[erb8472]

My 3 Ideal trades are:

Hamilton, Votto, Bailey, Encarnacion for Bedard.
Wood and Santana for Tejada.
Pie and Patterson for Roberts.

C - Hernandez
1B - Votto
2B - Patterson
SS - Wood
3B - Encarnacion
LF - Hamilton
CF - Pie
RF - Markakis
DH - Huff

SP - Bailey, Santana, Guthrie, Loewen, Cabrera

[Sports Guy]

I really don't think they will give up Bruce. At which point I am asking for a fourth piece.

Votto, Hamilton, Bailey, pitching prospect ...

If it is Bedard + Tejada do we get the 5 propsects in return?

Kershaw, Either, LaRoche, Hu, Meloan?

I think I would do that deal as well.
I am just guessing here but I think Kemp is definitely going to be coming back.

[utvolzac]

Dodgers & Reds, are my two favorite. I do not like the idea of trading with Seattle at all. I just don't like their prospects and see alot of bust potential with Seattle.

If it's the Dodgers, Kemp has to be in the deal. I'd take a lesser pitcher than Kershaw, but we need that big bat that can anchor clean up.

Kemp, LaRoche & One of their pitchers other than Kershaw/Billingsley would be acceptable. I'd rather eat Pierre's contract and have them up the deal though to include Hu and another player.

The Reds offer of Bailey, Votto & Hamilton is okay. Not nearly as impressive as the Dodgers offer, but Votto gives us an answer to 1B. I'm really high on Bailey and Hamilton could be a steal if he continues to develop into the player he is supposed to be.

Now if at any point the Reds lose their minds and offer Bruce, I'd prefer that deal to anything the Dodgers could offer short of Kemp/Loney & Kershaw.

[Lucky Jim]

Have you ever listened to country music? I'm not a big fan, but a guy based in Gulf Shores, AL might have been influenced by one of the 174,678 country songs in the dying of heartbreak genre.

I like country music. Well, traditional. And alt-.

I love the IDEA of dying of heartbreak. It's all very The Notebook. And who wouldn't want to love someone like McAdams loves Josling?

But that's neither here nor there. RShack has a habit of picking out the minutia in others' fairly well-reasoned arguments and claiming "no value" because of it...while ignoring gaping holes in his own. Now he's trying to bring this anti-Moneyball "dying of heartbreak" stuff on to the board.

I'm having none of it. Call me the Drungo/1970/Baltimoron/InsertStatGuyHere of mortality rates!

[AgentOrange]

If this is true and they think it is 75% done, my guess is they don't think the Dodgers will step up and match this.

Question is, what if the Dodgers take Tejada and offer more? Will the Reds then replace Hamilton with Bruce?

Well, I am not sure if they think its 75% done or if the guy thinks that if Bedard gets traded, there is a 75% chance it is to the Reds.

Maybe they think they are offering the best package?

But if the packages are similar or better than that, we shouldn't have much to worry about.

[Hank Scorpio]

I am just guessing here but I think Kemp is definitely going to be coming back.

If we deal Bedard to the Dodgers, I would hope so, unless it's Bedard & Tejada for :

Ethier, Kershaw, LaRoche, Hu, and Broxton.

[Fairfax Bird]

I am just guessing here but I think Kemp is definitely going to be coming back.


I don't think Kemp and Kershaw are coming back in a deal. I would rather have Kershaw than Kemp. Call me crazy, but I think in two years we will have a better version of Bedard in Kershaw. I also think that Either, while not having a high ceiling, will be a good .850 OPS guy for us for quite a while.

[UMterp08]

The fact that Bruce won't be included in no way requires the Reds to include a 4th guy. Bailey, Votto, Hamilton alone would be a fantastic (albeit not unrealistic) return. If we sent them Tejada as well (doubt they could afford it) then and only then do I think we could expect a 4th or 5th guy.

[Fairfax Bird]

If we deal Bedard to the Dodgers, I would hope so, unless it's Bedard & Tejada for :

Ethier, Kershaw, LaRoche, Hu, and Broxton.

I just said basically the same thing, don't think we will get Broxton, probably Meloan. Still a good haul.

[Camden_yardbird]

Brandon Fahey!!

Trembley has said that he will no longer put up with AAAA and AAA on a major league roster. I think that means that anyone on the roster is either going to be a productive member of the team, or will be take a trip down the beltway

[RShack]

I think you'd need to do a probabilistic study with multiple regressions to determine that a "broken heart" kills anyone. If the probability is higher that someone is going to die within 6 mos. anyway (because, say, both parties are in their 80s) then it could just be coincidence when one party dies on the heels of another. I mean, how often does it happen? And what's the relative life-expectancy of someone whose the same age w/o a spouse?

When an 88 year old husband dies a half year after his 87 year old wife, I have a hard time thinking "heart break" and a pretty easy time thinking "old age," "life," "our finite nature," etc.

Just saying, RShack - you're skeptical about all sorts of things that get thrown around on here. But you're just accepting "heartbreak" as a way of dying?
Back when I was in the psychology biz, I knew more about the details of the research. It's not just 88 year olds.

No doubt about this, in my mind anyway. IMO, only a society in which everything comes down to physical evidence and and probabilistic "proof" would doubt it. Intangible factors like love are sometimes huge (and sometimes not). People are complicated. What makes people tick is complicated. And since we're the very same thing we're trying to study, that makes it especially hard to do. I'm certainly not gonna poo-poo the idea of people dying from broken hearts. But, we digress...

[Sports Guy]

I don't think Kemp and Kershaw are coming back in a deal. I would rather have Kershaw than Kemp. Call me crazy, but I think in two years we will have a better version of Bedard in Kershaw. I also think that Either, while not having a high ceiling, will be a good .850 OPS guy for us for quite a while.

Personally, i prefer Kemp to Ethier but I am not going to disagree too much with what you say although I do think you are wrong about Kershaw...He is too wild to get that good in just 2 years.

That being said, i think the Orioles would prefer Kemp over Kershaw...Justa guess though.

[OrioleMagic]

Is Kemp destined to LF or RF eventually or can he play CF most of his MLB career? I ask because this may have a direct affect on whether McPhail wants Pie or not in a subsequent trade?

[Fairfax Bird]

Personally, i prefer Kemp to Ethier but I am not going to disagree too much with what you say although I do think you are wrong about Kershaw...He is too wild to get that good in just 2 years.

That being said, i think the Orioles would prefer Kemp over Kershaw...Justa guess though.

I just looked at Kershaw's numbers. He is too wild.

Amend my package (Bedard + Tejada) to:

Kemp, Elbert, LaRoche, Hu, Meloan.

[Sports Guy]

I just looked at Kershaw's numbers. He is too wild.

Amend my package (Bedard + Tejada) to:

Kemp, Elbert, LaRoche, Hu, Meloan.

Great prospect..if healthy.

Labrum surgery scares me though.

I would rather have McDonald than him personally.

Replace Elbert with McDonald(i assume no Kershaw) and that is the deal I look for.

The wild card is if we need a second baseman in this deal and decide to take that over Meloan.

[Hank Scorpio]

I just said basically the same thing, don't think we will get Broxton, probably Meloan. Still a good haul.

I could live with Meloan as long as we'd be getting back Kershaw, Ethier and LaRoche.

[TGO]

I just looked at Kershaw's numbers. He is too wild.

Amend my package (Bedard + Tejada) to:

Kemp, Elbert, LaRoche, Hu, Meloan.

Kershaw's walk rate was only poor at AA, and he was 19. It was not good at A level, but much more acceptable.

Elbert's BB rates are worse.

[theobird]

If this is true and they think it is 75% done, my guess is they don't think the Dodgers will step up and match this.

Question is, what if the Dodgers take Tejada and offer more? Will the Reds then replace Hamilton with Bruce?

IMO, they would not have to replace Hamilton with Bruce. If they also took Miggy, they would need to offer Bruce/Hamilton, Votto, Bailey/Cueto, Encarnacion and Keppinger. The Reds have the goods to do the deal. Will they? I doubt it. Votto IMO will be a better player than Loney, and LA won't include Loney. Hamilton has a cloud hanging over him, but physically he is just awesome. Bruce is as sure a thing as any prospect can be. Encarnacion is pretty good, I'd say at least equal to LaRoche. And Keppinger vs. Hu could be debated forever. Again, IMO the Reds could bust this thing.

[Mackus]

Bruce, Kemp, and Jones are all pretty even, so each team can offer a major primary OF piece.

I think the Reds and Dodgers both have better secondary pieces than the Mariners. Morrow, Clement, Balentien, and Trunfiel just aren't as impressive to me as the guys the other teams can offer.

If the Reds don't include Bruce, then the Dodgers can offer the best package. I think realistically the best offers from each team will be something like:
Bailey, Votto, and Hamilton from the Reds and Kemp, LaRoche, and Hu/McDonald/Elbert from the Dodgers. I think I prefer the Dodgers offers of the two of those.

[ChaosLex]

My 3 Ideal trades are:

Hamilton, Votto, Bailey, Encarnacion for Bedard.
Wood and Santana for Tejada.
Pie and Patterson for Roberts.

C - Hernandez
1B - Votto
2B - Patterson
SS - Wood
3B - Encarnacion
LF - Hamilton
CF - Pie
RF - Markakis
DH - Huff

SP - Bailey, Santana, Guthrie, Loewen, Cabrera

Do you look to trade Mora or make him a bench player? I like the list otherwise.

[UMterp08]

I think realistically the best offers from each team will be something like:
Bailey, Votto, and Hamilton from the Reds and Kemp, LaRoche, and Hu/McDonald/Elbert from the Dodgers. I think I prefer the Dodgers offers of the two of those.

I wonder if Belkast, who seems to know what some of the offers are, could at least tell us if guesses like these (and Jones-Morrow-Balentien) are over/under-estimates.

[Sports Guy]

Bruce, Kemp, and Jones are all pretty even, so each team can offer a major primary OF piece.

I think the Reds and Dodgers both have better secondary pieces than the Mariners. Morrow, Clement, Balentien, and Trunfiel just aren't as impressive to me as the guys the other teams can offer.

If the Reds don't include Bruce, then the Dodgers can offer the best package. I think realistically the best offers from each team will be something like:
Bailey, Votto, and Hamilton from the Reds and Kemp, LaRoche, and Hu/McDonald/Elbert from the Dodgers. I think I prefer the Dodgers offers of the two of those.
That is real close, especially if it is Elbert.

I probably take the Dodgers as well though.

[theobird]

I could live with Meloan as long as we'd be getting back Kershaw, Ethier and LaRoche.

Yeah, but the problem is that I think we may be depending on getting Broxton to flip along with Roberts to the Cubs. Just kind of reading between the lines from Belkast on that one. I may be wrong, but when he said Roberts would be traded right behind Bedard I kind of put two and two together.

[Mackus]

Belkast, BB, and Peace: any idea if the Dodgers would be interested in Tejada by himself if Bedard goes to Cincinnati?

I think I'd prefer trading Bedard for Bailey, Votto, Hamilton (and maybe even sneak Encarnacion in there) and then send Tejada to LA for LaRoche and anyone else we could squeeze (Meloan or Hu would be awesome).

[Lucky Jim]

Back when I was in the psychology biz, I knew more about the details of the research. It's not just 88 year olds.

No doubt about this, in my mind anyway. IMO, only a society in which everything comes down to physical evidence and and probabilistic "proof" would doubt it. Intangible factors like love are sometimes huge (and sometimes not). People are complicated. What makes people tick is complicated. And since we're the very same thing we're trying to study, that makes it especially hard to do. I'm certainly not gonna poo-poo the idea of people dying from broken hearts. But, we digress...

Oh, I'm just giving you a hard time. Obviously I've seen the same things you have - the anecdotal evidence is apparent. Of course, it can lead to the same kind of availability bias as other events (we notice when this happens, and so it looms large in our minds even when it happens a very, very small percentage of the time.)

Your point about not doubting it, however, was the crux of my criticism. If you were to be presented with evidence that an 88 year old whose wife had died was no more likely to be dead within 6 mos. than one whose wife continued to live with him, would this shake your faith in "dying of heartbreak"? What if it were over a huge statistical sample and cross-cultural?

It goes back to a lot of the disagreements on here - I mean, say we imagine defensive value as something "intangible" (and it nearly is, because the spectacular dominates our memory, and we're not keen enough to recognize the value in less 'available' plays over the course of a long season, and account for them accurately). And say, too, that there are a large number of fans who believe "X is a terrible defensive shortstop."

It's an opinion, and so as valid as any other, of course. One might believe it so strongly that even a boatload of empirical data couldn't sway you. But you'd be wrong. Of course, so would the individual who looks at faulty, or incomplete, data and makes a declaration that "X is a good defensive shortstop" when anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise.

But too often, both sides refuse the other - "purists" close their eyes to statistics. Statistic-driven fans refuse to find value in that which they can't quantify. Too often we cling to one or the other for no good reason other than it's comfortable.

It's a cliche to say that doubting conventional wisdom is where innovation occurs. And yet, I'm reminded of Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr.'s ground-breaking medical work - where he posited, well ahead of his time - and against conventional wisdom - that sickness and infection in hospitals were being spread by the doctors and nurses who tended to the sick. Experts - chock full of conventional wisdom - derided him as crazy, near blasphemous.

Of course he was right. And following in his footsteps led to amazing improvements in mortality rates.

Which isn't to say that loneliness and depression don't kill the elderly. But not exclusively, usually. If nothing else, "heartbreak" may be co-morbid with a number other conditions. But I have a feeling it doesn't kill alone.

Not like Miguel Tejada's defense.

[TGO]

Yeah, but the problem is that I think we may be depending on getting Broxton to flip along with Roberts to the Cubs. Just kind of reading between the lines from Belkast on that one. I may be wrong, but when he said Roberts would be traded right behind Bedard I kind of put two and two together.

The other option is we're trying to get Abreu as the 4th piece (or 5th if Tejada is involved), and we will trade Roberts as soon as that is done.

[erb8472]

Do you look to trade Mora or make him a bench player? I like the list otherwise.

You could keep Mora and let him play a super utility role, however I don't think he'd be happy with this role. If someone offered anything with a pulse I'd trade him. I'm guessing we could get a project bp arm for him.

[erb8472]

Bruce, Kemp, and Jones are all pretty even, so each team can offer a major primary OF piece.

I think the Reds and Dodgers both have better secondary pieces than the Mariners. Morrow, Clement, Balentien, and Trunfiel just aren't as impressive to me as the guys the other teams can offer.

If the Reds don't include Bruce, then the Dodgers can offer the best package. I think realistically the best offers from each team will be something like:
Bailey, Votto, and Hamilton from the Reds and Kemp, LaRoche, and Hu/McDonald/Elbert from the Dodgers. I think I prefer the Dodgers offers of the two of those.

It just comes down to if we'd rather get SP to replace Bedard or if we'd rather increase our position player talent.

I personally like a package centered around Bailey and Votto over one centered around Kemp and Laroche, because we are getting an arm back and a power bat.

I think we could get them to include Encarnacion and Bailey.

[Sports Guy]

Oh, I'm just giving you a hard time. Obviously I've seen the same things you have - the anecdotal evidence is apparent. Of course, it can lead to the same kind of availability bias as other events (we notice when this happens, and so it looms large in our minds even when it happens a very, very small percentage of the time.)

Your point about not doubting it, however, was the crux of my criticism. If you were to be presented with evidence that an 88 year old whose wife had died was no more likely to be dead within 6 mos. than one whose wife continued to live with him, would this shake your faith in "dying of heartbreak"? What if it were over a huge statistical sample and cross-cultural?

It goes back to a lot of the disagreements on here - I mean, say we imagine defensive value as something "intangible" (and it nearly is, because the spectacular dominates our memory, and we're not keen enough to recognize the value in less 'available' plays over the course of a long season, and account for them accurately). And say, too, that there are a large number of fans who believe "X is a terrible defensive shortstop."

It's an opinion, and so as valid as any other, of course. One might believe it so strongly that even a boatload of empirical data couldn't sway you. But you'd be wrong. Of course, so would the individual who looks at faulty, or incomplete, data and makes a declaration that "X is a good defensive shortstop" when anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise.

But too often, both sides refuse the other - "purists" close their eyes to statistics. Statistic-driven fans refuse to find value in that which they can't quantify. Too often we cling to one or the other for no good reason other than it's comfortable.

It's a cliche to say that doubting conventional wisdom is where innovation occurs. And yet, I'm reminded of Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr.'s ground-breaking medical work - where he posited, well ahead of his time - and against conventional wisdom - that sickness and infection in hospitals were being spread by the doctors and nurses who tended to the sick. Experts - chock full of conventional wisdom - derided him as crazy, near blasphemous.

Of course he was right. And following in his footsteps led to amazing improvements in mortality rates.

Which isn't to say that loneliness and depression don't kill the elderly. But not exclusively, usually. If nothing else, "heartbreak" may be co-morbid with a number other conditions. But I have a feeling it doesn't kill alone.

Not like Miguel Tejada's defense.

http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5

[nyjimbo]

erb: sounds like a solid plan. would love to see it come through. mark me down for opening day tickets.

[Caveat Emperor]

I dont think they will include Bruce, but I think we should ask for Encarnacion back as well as Hamilton.

Bailey, Votto, Hamilton, and Encarnacion. Encarnacion fell out of favor some last season and was even sent to the minors because of his defense at 3B. I think this is a realistic package and would be fair for both sides. Now if they dont want to give up Bailey in that package I'd obviously take Cueto.

FWIW, the generally unacknowledged reason around here in Cincy for Encarnacion's demotion was that he and ex-manager Jerry Narron didn't seem to get along. EdE has a very laid back demeanor and the belief is that Narron mistook for indifference towards lapses in the field. Depends on who you believe, though.

And Bruce isn't going anywhere. He's the bat they're counting on to replace Griffey after this year or Dunn if he's traded or moves to 1st base.

[andy c]

# 2 left hander in the game + we are trading him? we will never have a lefty like bedard again sign him + build around him brob + markakis

[erb8472]

FWIW, the generally unacknowledged reason around here in Cincy for Encarnacion's demotion was that he and ex-manager Jerry Narron didn't seem to get along. EdE has a very laid back demeanor and the belief is that Narron mistook for indifference towards lapses in the field. Depends on who you believe, though.

And Bruce isn't going anywhere. He's the bat they're counting on to replace Griffey after this year or Dunn if he's traded or moves to 1st base.

I agree that Bruce isn't going anywhere.

Apparently the Reds are offering Bailey, Hamilton, and Votto. Do you think they would include Encarnacion in that package to beat out a Dodgers offer?

[clapdiddy]

Bedard and Markakis for Bruce, Encarnacion, Votto, Cuerto, and Bailey.

There...I've said it again.:D

[erb8472]

# 2 left hander in the game + we are trading him? we will never have a lefty like bedard again sign him + build around him brob + markakis

Capitalization can be your friend.

Bedard and Roberts have the most value on our team. If we can get several young players for each guy then you have to trade them. That's the only realistic way for us to rebuild.