View Full Version : Mavs look like they are getting Kidd
Sports Guy
02-13-2008, 04:27 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102
Harris, 2 first rounders, Stackhouse and Diop for him seems like a lot.
Dallas needed a SG much more than they needed a PG.
Pedro Cerrano
02-13-2008, 04:31 PM
Bad trade for Dallas, especially long-term. But wow, these Western Conference playoffs will be insane this year! This could really go a long way towards bringing the NBA back, maybe not as the premier league in the country like it was, but at least back to the level of MLB.
Sports Guy
02-13-2008, 04:33 PM
Bad trade for Dallas, especially long-term. But wow, these Western Conference playoffs will be insane this year! This could really go a long way towards bringing the NBA back, maybe not as the premier league in the country like it was, but at least back to the level of MLB.
Yea, the West is sick...Every playoff team could win the title in the west...They are all that good IMO.
Ruzious
02-13-2008, 06:10 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244102
Harris, 2 first rounders, Stackhouse and Diop for him seems like a lot.
Dallas needed a SG much more than they needed a PG.
Terry is their shooting guard. This trade makes them better balanced, because Kidd is actually better off defending 2's than 1's - as he's got good size and strength and lacks the speed he used to have.
It's a great short-term move for the Mavs. Kidd ain't what he used to be, but he still gets trip dubs. He's still the best passing and rebounding guard in the NBA.
Also, Stackhouse will likely be cut by NJ and re-signed by Dallas later in the season.
It's also a good move by NJ - they get a good younger PG and save a lot of money.
BaltimoreTerp
02-13-2008, 06:22 PM
In a related story, Mark Cuban is rumored to be trying to coax Jamal Mashburn and Jimmy Jackson out of retirement for the stretch run and playoffs.
Ruzious
02-13-2008, 06:34 PM
In a related story, Mark Cuban is rumored to be trying to coax Jamal Mashburn and Jimmy Jackson out of retirement for the stretch run and playoffs.
The only way they agree is if Cuban hires Toni Braxton to be their "cheerleader". :eek:
Sports Guy
02-13-2008, 06:41 PM
Terry is their shooting guard. This trade makes them better balanced, because Kidd is actually better off defending 2's than 1's - as he's got good size and strength and lacks the speed he used to have.
It's a great short-term move for the Mavs. Kidd ain't what he used to be, but he still gets trip dubs. He's still the best passing and rebounding guard in the NBA.
Also, Stackhouse will likely be cut by NJ and re-signed by Dallas later in the season.
It's also a good move by NJ - they get a good younger PG and save a lot of money.
Terry is undersized at the 2 and would be better as the 6th man IMO.
blakesta
02-13-2008, 10:11 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3244818
Mavs forward Devean George exercises his right to block the trade. So much for this...
BaltimoreTerp
02-13-2008, 10:46 PM
I would HATE to be him right now, because he's going to get hell from Cuban, probably a few on the team, and the fans.
blakesta
02-13-2008, 11:12 PM
I would HATE to be him right now, because he's going to get hell from Cuban, probably a few on the team, and the fans.
Hah! I dont understand why he can't just suck it up and go play for the Nets. Its not like he is something special.
Bad trade for Dallas, especially long-term. But wow, these Western Conference playoffs will be insane this year! This could really go a long way towards bringing the NBA back, maybe not as the premier league in the country like it was, but at least back to the level of MLB.
I agree it's a bad trade for the Mavs, if it goes through that is, since for now, it's been blocked by Devean George. Kidd has declined a lot, I know most won't agree with this, but Devin Harris has played better this year than Kidd has.
Yes, the West playoffs will be insane, they have 9 of the top 11 teams. Imagine winning 48 games or so and missing the playoffs! Tons of star power, and a possible matchup of Shaq vs Kobe in the playoffs, not to mention Nash, Amare, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and some compelling recent history between the teams. Everyone wants to see that matchup.
When was the NBA ever the premier league in the country?:confused: I'm not sure it's behind MLB either.
Terry is their shooting guard. This trade makes them better balanced, because Kidd is actually better off defending 2's than 1's - as he's got good size and strength and lacks the speed he used to have.
It's a great short-term move for the Mavs. Kidd ain't what he used to be, but he still gets trip dubs. He's still the best passing and rebounding guard in the NBA.
Also, Stackhouse will likely be cut by NJ and re-signed by Dallas later in the season.
It's also a good move by NJ - they get a good younger PG and save a lot of money.
Everyone focuses on that, but lets look at his scoring numbers a little more closely. Only 11.3 PPG, while shooting an atrocious .366 from the field!
I would HATE to be him right now, because he's going to get hell from Cuban, probably a few on the team, and the fans.
Yeah, well quite a few of his teammates will like him for keeping them in Dallas, and Cuban and the Mavs will likely forgive him in the future when they still have a very good PG in Harris while Kidd is further along in his decline phase. But the trade may still happen anyway.
square634
02-14-2008, 02:20 AM
Hah! I dont understand why he can't just suck it up and go play for the Nets. Its not like he is something special.
I think it's a salary cap thing with the Larry Bird rule. If he accepts the trade, then the potential amount of money he can make next year decreases a lot.
I think it's a salary cap thing with the Larry Bird rule. If he accepts the trade, then the potential amount of money he can make next year decreases a lot.
That only matters for guys who are max contract type of players. Needless to say, George does not fit under that umbrella.
square634
02-14-2008, 02:29 AM
That only matters for guys who are max contract type of players. Needless to say, George does not fit under that umbrella.
Why does it only matter for max contract guys? From what I understand, a player can only put a team over the cap if he is resigned and has spent at least three straight years with the same team. Since most teams are over the soft cap, that restricts the demand for free agents so that most of them resign. And if George is traded, he must spend three years with the same team before he becomes eligible for the Larry Bird rule again, so he would count against the cap even if he stays with the same team.
Why does it only matter for max contract guys? From what I understand, a player can only put a team over the cap if he is resigned and has spent at least three straight years with the same team. Since most teams are over the soft cap, that restricts the demand for free agents so that most of them resign. And if George is traded, he must spend three years with the same team before he becomes eligible for the Larry Bird rule again, so he would count against the cap even if he stays with the same team.
Ok, it matters for some guys that aren't max contract guys, but I doubt it would matter for George. I don't think Dallas would give him much if anything to stay, and he could do just as well going elsewhere. But yes, I was wrong about the max contract thing, even though it matters the most for them.
square634
02-14-2008, 02:41 AM
Ok, it matters for some guys that aren't max contract guys, but I doubt it would matter for George. I don't think Dallas would give him much if anything to stay, and he could do just as well going elsewhere. But yes, I was wrong about the max contract thing, even though it matters the most for them.
If it isn't a big deal, then I'm sure they can agree on some form of compensation. I can't find the salary cap data for this year, but I'd venture a guess that all but maybe two or three teams are over the salary cap this year. I can see why someone wouldn't want to give up a valuable salary cap exemption.
If it isn't a big deal, then I'm sure they can agree on some form of compensation. I can't find the salary cap data for this year, but I'd venture a guess that all but maybe two or three teams are over the salary cap this year. I can see why someone wouldn't want to give up a valuable salary cap exemption.
Many more teams will be under the cap after the season is over, plus, teams have their mid range contracts that they can give out. Again, it's not like the Mavs were going to pay him much anyway, and especially not now.
Pedro Cerrano
02-14-2008, 03:54 AM
I agree it's a bad trade for the Mavs, if it goes through that is, since for now, it's been blocked by Devean George. Kidd has declined a lot, I know most won't agree with this, but Devin Harris has played better this year than Kidd has.
Yes, the West playoffs will be insane, they have 9 of the top 11 teams. Imagine winning 48 games or so and missing the playoffs! Tons of star power, and a possible matchup of Shaq vs Kobe in the playoffs, not to mention Nash, Amare, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and some compelling recent history between the teams. Everyone wants to see that matchup.
When was the NBA ever the premier league in the country?:confused: I'm not sure it's behind MLB either.
From the late 70s to the mid-90s IMO. The Magic, Kareem, Bird, Jordan era.
From the late 70s to the mid-90s IMO. The Magic, Kareem, Bird, Jordan era.
The NBA had a big problem in the late 70's and early 80's, so it certainly wasn't then. I'm pretty sure the NBA has never been considered the #1 league. I thought it was widely accepted that it's either been #2 or #3 for a very long time. And no, I'm not considering NASCAR in this. They've had the most marketable and recognizable players for a very long time, but there's always been a larger portion of the nation that doesn't care about the NBA like they do the NFL or MLB. Sadly, part of that is racism imo.
Camden_yardbird
02-14-2008, 01:45 PM
BTW, I did not see it posted in my quick perusal of the thread but it looks like Devean George is blocking this trade as per allowed in his contract. He has a one year contract and is really just a small part of this trade, but he might mess up the entire thing.
Also, Stackhouse apparantly has an agreement in place with the Nets that they will buy out his contract. He would then have to wait 30 days and then he could sign a new contract with Dallas.
MikeAD
02-14-2008, 07:03 PM
IF (and I guess its still an if) this trade goes down I am wondering: has there ever been this many trades of big name players in one season, hell one month?
I'm only 20 but I can't remember even two big trades in one season but already we've seen Gasol, Shaq, and Kidd. Well I guess Gasol isn't huge but it was to the Lakers.
IF (and I guess its still an if) this trade goes down I am wondering: has there ever been this many trades of big name players in one season, hell one month?
I'm only 20 but I can't remember even two big trades in one season but already we've seen Gasol, Shaq, and Kidd. Well I guess Gasol isn't huge but it was to the Lakers.
Gasol isn't the biggest name, but he's the best player of that group.
Pedro Cerrano
02-14-2008, 07:37 PM
The NBA had a big problem in the late 70's and early 80's, so it certainly wasn't then. I'm pretty sure the NBA has never been considered the #1 league. I thought it was widely accepted that it's either been #2 or #3 for a very long time. And no, I'm not considering NASCAR in this. They've had the most marketable and recognizable players for a very long time, but there's always been a larger portion of the nation that doesn't care about the NBA like they do the NFL or MLB. Sadly, part of that is racism imo.
In the 80s with the Bird/Magic feud the NBA was certainly the premier league in the US.
In the 80s with the Bird/Magic feud the NBA was certainly the premier league in the US.
Based on what?
Not according to this: http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=622
Or this: http://www.articlevista.com/Article/Are-NBA-Attendance-Figures-on-the-Upswing-/59260
The best years in ratings for the Finals were from '91 to '98.
League attendance wasn't that good until the late 80's either. http://www.apbr.org/attendance.html
This isn't an easy topic to research, but I've seen nothing that supports your opinion, and I've never once heard this opinion before. I'm quite sure the NBA has never been considered the #1 league. The NFL has been supreme for a long time, and the MLB was tops before that.
Ruzious
02-15-2008, 02:25 PM
Everyone focuses on that, but lets look at his scoring numbers a little more closely. Only 11.3 PPG, while shooting an atrocious .366 from the field!
That is awful, but he's always been a bad shooter. That's not going to stop him from making the HOF. He's still the best rebounding guard in the game, arguably the best passer in the game, and good enough defensively that he made the 2nd team All Defense team last season. And dude is a competitor - which really helps in the playoffs - especially when your team has a bit of a soft reputation.
That is awful, but he's always been a bad shooter. That's not going to stop him from making the HOF. He's still the best rebounding guard in the game, arguably the best passer in the game, and good enough defensively that he made the 2nd team All Defense team last season. And dude is a competitor - which really helps in the playoffs - especially when your team has a bit of a soft reputation.
He's shooting and scoring is at an all time low, his rebounding was helped early in the season by a terrible rebounding frontcourt, it's gone down since, but yes, he is a good rebounder, and his defense on good PG's is bad, he can guard 2 guards ok, but he is not a good defender. Devin Harris is much better defensively. Plus, the Mavs system doesn't really suit Kidd's style.
If you have ESPN Insider: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=KiddDeal-080213
It's by John Hollinger.
If you don't, here's some quotes:
Kidd's PER this season is 16.07, while Harris is way ahead at 18.66. This may shock some people who have only seen the reports of his triple-doubles, but Kidd is scoring at a much lower rate this season, shooting a hideous 36.7 percent from the field, and his turnover rate has skyrocketed.
Per 40 minutes, Harris averages nearly seven points more; that's huge. He also gets to the line more than twice as often and shoots a far better percentage from the field. His true shooting percentage of 59.2 dwarfs Kidd's 48.3.
Finally, Harris is a huge plus at the defensive end, where he has the quickness to defend the Parkers, Pauls and Nashes of the West and was second in the league in offensive fouls drawn last season, according to 82games.com. By my methods, he was the best defensive point guard in the league in 2006-07.
...the Mavs are one of the league's most isolation-heavy teams and annually have among the league's lowest rates of assisted baskets; the Nets are the opposite and are annually among the highest. It's possible Dallas changes some of that to take advantage of Kidd, of course, but somehow I imagine the high-post isos for Dirk Nowitzki and Josh Howard will remain the bread-and-butter of the offense.
Kidd's passing skills are most lethal in transition, but the Mavs run infrequently.
Wow, Kidd couldn't guard Chris Paul, who would have ever foresaw that?;)
Camden_yardbird
02-21-2008, 12:02 PM
Wow, Kidd couldn't guard Chris Paul, who would have ever foresaw that?;)
Kidd got schooled by CP3. 9 steals for CP3 and many at Kidd's expense. Welcome to the Western Conference time to step up you game.
So how did that Kidd trade work out Ruzious?:D Not good for this year, and certainly not a good move for the future.