Should Gary be Fired?

[bryanman8]

Although I've been attacked by numerous people in the game thread for suggesting that Gary should be fired, I've been given numerous rep points that indicate a number of other people feel the same way, perhaps they're just not as vocal or don't like posting as much. I wanted to really gauge public opinion on this. Anonymous poll. Should Gary Williams be fired if MD doesn't make a remarkable recovery and make the tourney this year?

[Great 2BA FL Gator]

Gary Williams will never be fired. He took us from nothing, and made us national champs. I think he has room somewhere for another run at a title. I am not one of those that backs Gary on everything, especially his recruiting, or lack there of, but there is no way you could ever fire him.

[EddieO's21]

Gary Williams should not be fired from UMD, barring rules violations or absolutely abismal performances for 10 consecutive years. He brought this school back from the dead and won a national championship (yes a national championship) in 2002.

I am tired of these threads that continually bash GW for losses that shouldn't happen. Guess what, they do, and they will again. Would I like to see a change in GW's recruiting styles, of course. However, GW gets all out of his players and more on the basketball court. He is a staple at this institution and has brought winning as a mentality to College Park.

Those of you who want coaching changes seem to forget this program was once in the dumps, and on the brink of collapsing after violations that embarrassed this university. UMD took a chance on GW coming back and turning this thing around and frankly, I will always take a chance on GW when things are down because he has ALWAYS found a way to rebound in the faces of those who criticize him most.

let me give you some quick stats with UMD

12 NCAA appearances in 18 years, (3 of his misses were in the first 4 years of service, so 12 of the last 14

10 twenty win seasons

national championship

8th winninest coach in the country

7 sweet 16 appearances or better



Please...why should he be fired?? Is he outdated?? There are plenty more statistics of which to choose. Look, the point is, Gary has earned the right to decide for himself when to leave...thats that in my book

[The Rick]

I love the nice gap between give him one more year and gary should never be fired under any circumstances? What kind of crap is that? It either should have been Yes/No, or you could have at least been fair about it. No, I don't think Gary should be fired. But if 5 years from now we've had 5 straight no NIT/No Big dance seasons and finished under .500 overall every year then my mind might start changing. How you go from, give him one more year to he doesn't deserve to ever be fired is beyond me.

[bryanman8]

I love the nice gap between give him one more year and gary should never be fired under any circumstances? What kind of crap is that? It either should have been Yes/No, or you could have at least been fair about it. No, I don't think Gary should be fired. But if 5 years from now we've had 5 straight no NIT/No Big dance seasons and finished under .500 overall every year then my mind might start changing. How you go from, give him one more year to he doesn't deserve to ever be fired is beyond me.
Just make a decision. I already had only one option for "yes" and two options for "no" so that's more than enough to make your voice heard. Believe it or not, most of the people on your side of the spectrum are "Gary gets a free pass for life" people that think he should never be let go under any circumstances. Obviously, if you think Gary deserves another 5 years before this is even talked about, you don't really think Gary's on the hotseat in the slightest. You could say that about every single coach--if in 5 years Roy Williams has UNC in the NITs 3 straight years, maybe you fire him. We're talking about now though. I consider "let's wait and see 5 years from now" the equivalent of "the man is a God and can do no wrong," considering you'd think 3/4 straight years in the NIT would be enough to convince you that he's not getting it done.

[Dr. FLK]

The most disturbing thing about Gary is recruiting. He seemingly puts in no effort. I'm pretty sick and tired of watching local talent leave without so much as a fight from UMD (Ty Lawson, Rudy Gay, Michael Beasely, Kevin Durant, Carmello, Joey Dorsey....). I'm not a huge fan of the flex offense, so for sake of argument let's assume his X's and O's are outstanding. Unfortunately, recruiting is a huge part of his job. And, it's a huge part that he seems to not really care about. His national championship came when two completely unheralded recruits exceeded everyone's expectations. Call it luck if you want. Say Gary "coached 'em up" if you want. Either way is fine.

My point is, he has one of the finest facilities in all of the country. He's located halfway between two basketball hot beds. And, year after year after year, all of the local studs go elsewhere. People like to say that he has good assistants do his recruiting. But, who honestly thinks that today's HS bball players give a darn about Keith Booth and Little Lefty? I know people here love Gary to no end. But, I just cannot stand the fact that intentionally neglects a gigantic portion of his job. He has a pipeline to terrific talent, and he closes it off himself. This year would be too soon to fire him IMO. But, if things don't turn around next year, or the year after, it has to be considered. I just don't see how UMD can watch all of the local talent bring National Championships elsewhere.

[The Rick]

Just make a decision. I already had only one option for "yes" and two options for "no" so that's more than enough to make your voice heard. Believe it or not, most of the people on your side of the spectrum are "Gary gets a free pass for life" people that think he should never be let go under any circumstances. Obviously, if you think Gary deserves another 5 years before this is even talked about, you don't really think Gary's on the hotseat in the slightest. You could say that about every single coach--if in 5 years Roy Williams has UNC in the NITs 3 straight years, maybe you fire him. We're talking about now though. I consider "let's wait and see 5 years from now" the equivalent of "the man is a God and can do no wrong," considering you'd think 3/4 straight years in the NIT would be enough to convince you that he's not getting it done.

I think that more people than myself are in between the free pass for life vote and the 1 more year vote.

Sorry, not everyone is willing to trash a coaching legend, and one who put this program on the map to begin with just over a 4 year stretch of mediocrity. It's not like they've completely tanked yet. Like I said, a few years of losing seasons/no post-season play, I think a lot of people would be on your boat.

I for one don't think anyone gets a pass for life though.

[DuffMan]

I think that more people than myself are in between the free pass for life vote and the 1 more year vote.

Sorry, not everyone is willing to trash a coaching legend, and one who put this program on the map to begin with just over a 4 year stretch of mediocrity. It's not like they've completely tanked yet. Like I said, a few years of losing seasons/no post-season play, I think a lot of people would be on your boat.

I for one don't think anyone gets a pass for life though.

I second this opinion.

[Mackus]

Pass for life is the closest thing to the correct answer.

[grady41]

Go ahead fire him , Kelvin Sampsen is out there, if you want a cheating coach which Gary is not.
Gary should and will be at MD till he decides his time has come. As Chuck and Booth get better at recruiting things will take off, remember Patsos, Hahn and Dickerson left and to a lesser extent Lonagren and the assistant who went to Charlotte, thats caused a hit in recruiting.

[bryanman8]

Go ahead fire him , Kelvin Sampsen is out there, if you want a cheating coach which Gary is not.
Why is the assumption that it's either Gary, or cheating coach?

Why can't we just hire someone else that knows how to coach basketball but actually makes an effort in recruiting and runs a competent offensive system at this point?

[Oriole4Life]

Only if Bernie Bickerstaff is available. :D

For the love of god no. I have yet to engage in these "Gary getting fired" discussions because personally I think they are ludicrous. Look at the success he has brought us. I can understand people's frustration, but it is not all Gary' fault. I'll admit that if we make the NIT 5 years in a row(as someone said), then we need to take a look at a coaching change. But now, no.

[bryanman8]

Only if Bernie Bickerstaff is available. :D

For the love of god no. I have yet to engage in these "Gary getting fired" discussions because personally I think they are ludicrous. Look at the success he has brought us. I can understand people's frustration, but it is not all Gary' fault. I'll admit that if we make the NIT 5 years in a row(as someone said), then we need to take a look at a coaching change. But now, no.
How's 4 out of 5 for ya? (which would be next year)

A lot of you make it sound like that things could be far worse. They really can't. This is going to be the 3rd year out of 4 that a program with as much prestige, great facilities, great talent in the area, as MD is going to the NITs. I think things are going to be even worse next year, making it 4/5. So, we really need to wait another 3 years after that for it to be 2 NIT-1 NCAA-5 NIT for you to think firing Gary is acceptable?

Really, if you look at this objectively, you'll see that Gary has fast approached the area that should be completely unacceptable no matter how much he's done for this program in the past.

[square634]

How's 4 out of 5 for ya? (which would be next year)

A lot of you make it sound like that things could be far worse. They really can't. This is going to be the 3rd year out of 4 that a program with as much prestige, great facilities, great talent in the area, as MD is going to the NITs. I think things are going to be even worse next year, making it 4/5. So, we really need to wait another 3 years after that for it to be 2 NIT-1 NCAA-5 NIT for you to think firing Gary is acceptable?

Really, if you look at this objectively, you'll see that Gary has fast approached the area that should be completely unacceptable no matter how much he's done for this program in the past.

You act as if it is already sealed that we will be in the NIT...

[Sports Guy]

Why is the assumption that it's either Gary, or cheating coach?

Why can't we just hire someone else that knows how to coach basketball but actually makes an effort in recruiting and runs a competent offensive system at this point?

Coach K doesn't do the recruiting....A lot of coaches don't.

Not sure if this is what you mean or not but if it is, you need to get your facts straight.

[vatech1994]

21 stays forever - 2 time is up, pretty close, ;)

Again, if you want to be granted any credit for having some perspective by me, you really need to respond to the posts about how much better Williams has done at MD than any previous coach EVER. Study those links I posted and respond to them with articulate thoughts about why it doesn't matter that he took us to 11 straight NCAAs births which is BY FAR the most consecutive appearances by MD.

It would also help if you'd stop classifying the last four years as terrible. The team has averaged 20 wins per year, never had less than 19 wins in any year, is over 500 in the ACC over that span, and their worst ACC record was 7-9 during that span. That isn't terrible. To classify it as terrible justs undermines your credibility.

Finally, you should really study other schools where legends left and maybe you wouldn't think "it couldn't get worse". Look at NC State after Jimmy V. I posted that link for you too.... I understand you're young so it is tough to have a broad perspective. You're much more articulate and patient than I was at your age. However, your youth is showing right now IMHO.

[Fairfax Bird]

Why can't we just hire someone else that knows how to coach basketball but actually makes an effort in recruiting and runs a competent offensive system at this point?

We should hire Bruce Pearl, he runs a competent offensive system. They use baseline cuts like the Maryland Flex. Oh wait, they can't be competent if it is the same system. Oh wait, his team is #1 in the nation.:rolleyes:

[inmn]

Coach K doesn't do the recruiting....A lot of coaches don't.

Not sure if this is what you mean or not but if it is, you need to get your facts straight.

SG,

That is flat out wrong. He doesn't beat the bushes but he will visit recruits and he and his wife Mickie often host recruits for a dinner in their house on their official visit. Among others he's been in FL this year to see Boynton and Memphis to see McDonald, he often speaks to recruits via phone. Couldn't be more wrong on that one.

[grady41]

K is the closer for Duke, just like Gary is for MD, yes they see recruits in person but not until the assistants see them first. This is where MD's problem has been, the 2 gym rats have moved on (Patsos and Hahn) they were the guys who found the Dixons, or Baxters.
K does have one advantage in recruiting, his butt is chapped from Vital kissing it so much, dont for one minute think that and ESPN dont help recruiting/

[Danielos38]

Next year we will have a roster with 7 Top 100 players, and 4 others in the Top 150... feel free to explain how that happens, with no effort in recruiting.

BTW, you state in the other thread that MD's entire starting 5 has NBA potential... again, how does that happen with no effort in recruiting?

Also, maybe take a look at MD's per game scoring avg's in ACC play over the last 15 years, and then we can discuss how ridiculous you sound with the 'run a competent offensive system' quip.

I think this sums it up nicely. Gary is a legend. Bryan, you will be better off when you understand that.

[Sports Guy]

K is the closer for Duke, just like Gary is for MD, yes they see recruits in person but not until the assistants see them first. This is where MD's problem has been, the 2 gym rats have moved on (Patsos and Hahn) they were the guys who found the Dixons, or Baxters.
K does have one advantage in recruiting, his butt is chapped from Vital kissing it so much, dont for one minute think that and ESPN dont help recruiting/Correct....Wojo does all the work and K finishes it.

[inmn]

Correct....Wojo does all the work and K finishes it.

I am pretty sure Duke doesn't use a lead recruiter for all recruits but rather a team approach. I know Dawkins was the prime contact for Nolan Smith.
The ACC journal just stated that 3 out of 4 Duke coaches had contacted McDonald within the past week.

[Fairfax Bird]

Wow, looks like the consensus is that Gary has got to go.:rolleyes:

[Sports Guy]

I am pretty sure Duke doesn't use a lead recruiter for all recruits but rather a team approach. I know Dawkins was the prime contact for Nolan Smith.
The ACC journal just stated that 3 out of 4 Duke coaches had contacted McDonald within the past week.

Dawkins has known Smith for years, which is why he was the lead guy...Wojo is the main guy.

Sure everyone helps out but Wojo leads the group according to what many people have said on TV.

[longflyball]

Wow, looks like the consensus is that Gary has got to go.:rolleyes:

I don't know, the networks are saying it's still too close too call. Oh, wait.....they can now make a projection.....Gary Williams should NOT be fired.

Now, will Bryan demand a recount?

[Dr. FLK]

I don't know, the networks are saying it's still too close too call. Oh, wait.....they can now make a projection.....Gary Williams should NOT be fired.

Now, will Bryan demand a recount?

I find this whole thing kind of funny. I can certainly understand disagreement here. But, people get outright angry and shocked if anyone dare suggests that Saint Gary gets fired. Letting all of the local talent walk when you're winning NC's is one thing. But, when they all leave and you're NIT bound, it's another. I'm not sure many "top programs" would defend their coach this strongly with these same type of results. Just ask Tubby Smith. Either UMD is a "top program" or it isn't. If it's not, then going to the NIT a few years in a row is perfectly fine. If it is, then he most certainly isn't doing enough with his resources.

[Ruzious]

This thread pleasantly surprised me. I figured like Bryan - that a lot more people were looking to dump Gary.

I think the problem people at least used to overlook when calling for Gary to be fired was - Who do you get to replace him? The answer was assumed - "Well, MD is one of the best jobs in the country. They'll get their choice of anyone." My answer is - First - I don't think you'd have your choice of anyone if you fire one someone as successful as Gary. Second - How many great college coaches are there? Not as many as you think. And the best ones are taken.

[longflyball]

I find this whole thing kind of funny. I can certainly understand disagreement here. But, people get outright angry and shocked if anyone dare suggests that Saint Gary gets fired. Letting all of the local talent walk when you're winning NC's is one thing. But, when they all leave and you're NIT bound, it's another. I'm not sure many "top programs" would defend their coach this strongly with these same type of results. Just ask Tubby Smith. Either UMD is a "top program" or it isn't. If it's not, then going to the NIT a few years in a row is perfectly fine. If it is, then he most certainly isn't doing enough with his resources.

And look at Kentucky under Smith's replacement: 15-10 and on the bubble, having lost to Gardner-Webb and San Diego

This discussion is very similar to the discussion surrounding Brian Billick's firing. How long a honeymoon does a championship grant you? Does it make sense to fire a good coach who has recently underperformed to take the gamble that you can find someone better?

I thought Billick needed to go, but the issue was debatable. Clearly most MD fans just don't believe it is has yet come to the point where Gary's job security should be in question.

[ScottieBaseball]

I love the nice gap between give him one more year and gary should never be fired under any circumstances? What kind of crap is that? It either should have been Yes/No, or you could have at least been fair about it. No, I don't think Gary should be fired. But if 5 years from now we've had 5 straight no NIT/No Big dance seasons and finished under .500 overall every year then my mind might start changing. How you go from, give him one more year to he doesn't deserve to ever be fired is beyond me.

Wow...just abstain, then. :rolleyes:

[bbasal]

this is the most moronic thread that i have seen posted on here!

come on for god sake!

[Eight]

Of course not. The team still has a good chance to go to the NCAA Tournament this season. Firing a HOF coach after two straight NCAA Tournaments and without any extenuating off the court situations would be insane. Now if this year is another NIT season and next year follows suit, the answer might be different.

I would be interested in hearing from someone who DOES think he should be fired right now. Who do you have in mind for the job?

[O'sFanThruJune]

Wow...just abstain, then. :rolleyes:

I think that's the problem he was pointing out. All of the people who say Gary shouldn't be fired now, but should be if he has 3-5 terrible years have nowhere to vote in this poll. I think that viewpoint applies to the majority of people involved in the discussion.

If all those people abstain, then the poll will be extremely biased towards those that think Gary should be fired now.

As it turns out, it looks like most of those people just went with the "Gary should never be fired" choice rather than abstaining. I doubt that more than 20% of the people choosing it actually agree with that choice as written.

[ChaosLex]

It's good to see common sense prevailed in this poll.

[OregonBird]

I think if the Terps don't make the tourney this year then perhaps Debbie Yow and others have a "come to Jesus" w/Gary to find out what he's going to do to correct the course. In my heart of hearts I just don't see the Terps going dancing this year.

He should be getting some reinforcements for next year however he's going to lose Osby and Gist. I'm not sure if next years team will be substantially improved.

If the team doesn't make the tourney this year and next then I think GW has to take a good, hard look in the mirror. The AD will have a tough choice to make as well.

This school and program has too much going for it to not be consistently in the tourney every year, minus an ocasional bad year. Will we ever be a Duke or UNC? No. Could we get a coach better than GW? I don't know. I do believe that the Terps job is a great one for all the reasons that have been mentioned in this thread. There are several great young coaches out there doing a great job at smaller schools that have much less going for it. Tennessee found Bruce Pearl, Florida found Billy Donovan, and I trust that the MD search committee could find someone that could succeed. I'd have to think that there are great young coaches out there at places like Butler that would love a shot to coach at UMD. Likewise I'd have to imagine that there are coaches at good program like a Gonzaga or a Wisconsin that while they've build a great program, they'd love to have what UMD has going for it.

I appreciate what Gary has done but at the same time the school has to decide if they want to start looking fwd as opposed to revisiting the past.

[Mackus]

and will likely lose Vasquez to EuropeWhat!?

You're gonna need to back that up with some more info if you're gonna bring up something as insane as that.

[OregonBird]

What!?

You're gonna need to back that up with some more info if you're gonna bring up something as insane as that.

I went through and deleted it. I don't want to cause hysteria.

I'm not going to put my source out there but I've been reading from a few places that its not a forgone conclusion that he'd be back. From what I've read he's got some thoughts of perhaps playing professionally.

I don't see it, especially not for the NBA but playing for cash in Europe or somewhere else, well anything is possible.

[Eight]

Not a chance Vasquez would bolt for Europe...if he wants to get paid that badly he could be drafted (albeit likely in the second round) after this season.

[Camden_yardbird]

I don't think he should, but I think something needs to change with recruiting. There is absolutely no reason why Maryland shouldn't be getting a lot of the talent coming out of the area. There have been 3-4 huge college stars that were from the area that should have been going to Maryland but were not for some reason.

[beaner]

I have not read this entire thread so forgive me if this has been mentioned. But I think there's a huge difference between not being fired now and never being fired under any circumstances. I don't think there is any reason to fire him now, they were a #4 seed in the tourney last year.

What Gary has done at Maryland since his arrival is unreal. You guys have to remember the state of the program when he got there. They were as close to the death penalty as it gets. He's meant as much to Maryland as any coach has ever meant to a program. Turning Maryland from the brink of the death penalty to a back to back Final Four program is certainly worth giving the benefit of the doubt, especially with a relatively young team.

[Mackus]

I have not read this entire thread so forgive me if this has been mentioned. But I think there's a huge difference between not being fired now and never being fired under any circumstances. I don't think there is any reason to fire him now, they were a #4 seed in the tourney last year.

What Gary has done at Maryland since his arrival is unreal. You guys have to remember the state of the program when he got there. They were as close to the death penalty as it gets. He's meant as much to Maryland as any coach has ever meant to a program. Turning Maryland from the brink of the death penalty to a back to back Final Four program is certainly worth giving the benefit of the doubt, especially with a relatively young team.Exactly.

I'd bet the majority of the "shouldn't be fire under any circumstance" votes would fall in this. No coach has a lifetime pass, but Gary gets as much of a benefit of the doubt as any other legendary coach. He'd have to have a very long stretch of very poor play. That was just the closest option to what the correct response is (and personally, I feel this is an answer with a correct response, not an opinion poll).

[The Rick]

I have not read this entire thread so forgive me if this has been mentioned. But I think there's a huge difference between not being fired now and never being fired under any circumstances. I don't think there is any reason to fire him now, they were a #4 seed in the tourney last year.

What Gary has done at Maryland since his arrival is unreal. You guys have to remember the state of the program when he got there. They were as close to the death penalty as it gets. He's meant as much to Maryland as any coach has ever meant to a program. Turning Maryland from the brink of the death penalty to a back to back Final Four program is certainly worth giving the benefit of the doubt, especially with a relatively young team.

I brought this up in posts #4 and #7 on page 1 of this thread. It's all good though, great minds think alike. ;)

[grady41]

Maybe Bruce Pearle is available since he lost last night to a instate team, has lost recruits to Memphis and Vandy. This makes as much since as firing Gary would.
Its sports and you cant will all the games.

[grady41]

Maybe Tenn will want to fire Pearle and talk to GW, after loosing to Vandy and MD 's big win at WF.