ACC Tournament

[YardBirds13]

I'll put this in here just because more people will see it, and hopefully it will generate some real basketball discussion rather than the Gary stuff going on in the other thread.

The match-ups are now set for the ACC Tournament, held in Charlotte this year. Yours truly will be there for the 7th straight year, and I'm hoping it is as fun as always.

The Match-ups:

Thursday:

8-Wake Forest vs. 9- Florida State, noon
5- Miami (FL) vs. 12- NC State, 2:30 pm
7- Georgia Tech vs. 10- Virginia, 7 pm
6- Maryland vs. 11- Boston College, 9:30 pm

Friday:
1- North Carolina vs winner, noon
4- Virginia Tech vs. winner, 2:30 pm
2- Duke vs. winner, 7 pm
3- Clemson vs. winner, 9:30 pm

I'm really looking forward to these match-ups. With how many games have been really close in the conference this year, I fully expect at least 3 of the games to go right down to the wire on the first day (hopefully all 4).
In terms of Maryland, they certainly have to worry about Rice going off, but as much as Terp fans are down right now, I fully expect MD to win against BC.
As far as Virginia goes, can't really complain about matching up with Georgia Tech. We just beat them in Atlanta this past Monday, and went to OT against them in Charlottesville before Matt Causey took the game over. I expect it to come down to the last posession or two, but something tells me Singletary wills them to a win to at least get a shot at Duke.
The second day could also be a ton of fun, with two teams getting a shot to take down the big dogs, and probably two very exciting bubble games (Miami-VT and Maryland-Clemson hopefully) I would expect one of the two big dogs to win by a rout Friday, and one to get a fierce battle. (I think everyone knows which route I'm hoping for.)

Anyways, some predictions:

8- Wake Forest over 9- Florida State
5- Miami over 12- NC State
10- Virginia over 7- Georgia Tech
6- Maryland over 3- Clemson

1- North Carolina over 8- Wake Forest
5- Miami over 4- Virginia Tech
2- Duke over 10- Virginia
6- Maryland over 3- Clemson

1- North Carolina over 5- Miami
2- Duke over 6- Maryland

1- North Carolina over 2- Duke

[EddieO's21]

Lowest seed to win the ACC tourney: 6

That team: UMD

[YardBirds13]

Lowest seed to win the ACC tourney: 6

That team: UMD

That team also only had to win 3 games in 3 days, not 4 games in 4 days.

Not saying it can't be done, but I don't expect anyone playing on Thursday in this tournament to win it for a long time, it's just too much to ask.

Last year, as a 10 seed, NC State beat Duke in the opening round, overcame a 14 point halftime deficit (yes, I'm still bitter) against Virginia in the quarterfinals, and then beat Virginia Tech in the Semis. They had to play Carolina in the Championship game and were just beat. Brandon Costner was a monster in the tournament, but just had no gas left on Sunday. Winning 4 straight games in 4 days is just a really, really tough task. (Although William & Mary tries to do it today in the CAA. They have won 3 straight games on the last posession. How incredible is that.)

[beaner]

Florida State over Wake forest
NC State over Miami
Virignia over Georgia Tech
Maryland over Boston College

North Carolina over Florida State
NC State over Virginia Tech
Duke over Virginia
Clemson over Maryland

North Carolina over Nc State
Clemson over Duke

North Carolina over Clemson


Looking forward to seeing a competitive weekend. Besides the three Lock tourney teams, I think the rest are fairly even although I like UVA and State right now better than I"m sure most do.

[BustaJ2632]

Maryland needs to come out and get a decisive win over B.C., and then beat Clemson by any means necessary. If they do that, and there are no big upsets in other conference tournaments, then they have a chance. I'd put it somewhere in the 30-35% range in that case, assuming a loss to Duke.

If they do that and hang tough with Duke, I'd bump that up to near 50%.

If they beat Duke, I'd put them in the 80% range barring several major upsets in other conference tournaments.

If they win the whole thing, I think there's probably a 90% chance Debbie doesn't make Gary play in the N.I.T. ;)

Seriously I am holding out hope that the Terps can get in, so I'd go with...

Wake over FSU
NC State over Miami
UVa over GT
Maryland over B.C.

UNC over Wake
NC State over VT
Duke over UVa
Maryland over Clemson

UNC over NC State
Maryland over Duke

UNC over Maryland

As YardBirds said, I don't anticipate anyone winning four in four days. It will happen eventually, but I don't see it happening this year. Otherwise, my picks can be regarded as completely homeristic and made for the best possible results for the Terps. :) Plus if anyone besides Maryland is going to win the tourament, I think every Terps fan should be rooting for UNC, since we are still the only team to have beaten them with Lawson in the lineup (although obviously if it got to that finals matchup, we probably should stop rooting for them)

[Sports Guy]

Maryland will be done early...Maybe beat BC but nothing more than that. Really, i think they will lose to BC.

I will be surprised if Duke and UNC don't play for the title.

Outside of maybe Clemson, no one is really all that good...Of course, upsets can happen but nothing to be that worried about, that's for sure.

[backwardsk]

I hate how they have expanded. I know why they did, but I don't like it. When I was in high school, our English substitute got us a TV and said he'd show us a video. Then he shut the door, and said, "Class, we're watching the tournament." It was so, so much better with 8 or 9 teams, with Friday being the big day.

YardBirds13, it's a shame that your big man has been hurt this year. That's a totally different team when he is healthy. With that said, the ACC is a two team conference this year.

[YardBirds13]

I hate how they have expanded. I know why they did, but I don't like it. When I was in high school, our English substitute got us a TV and said he'd show us a video. Then he shut the door, and said, "Class, we're watching the tournament." It was so, so much better with 8 or 9 teams, with Friday being the big day.

YardBirds13, it's a shame that your big man has been hurt this year. That's a totally different team when he is healthy. With that said, the ACC is a two team conference this year.

Well, not only did Mikalauskas miss a lot of time (he still has to wear that weird shoulder brace), but Soroye also missed basically the entire year, and he is our best interior defensive player. Look at how many games we lost by less than 3 points or in overtime, and I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that if those two guys are healthy we are a much different team.

I fully expect us to beat Georgia Tech and give Duke all they want in the Quarters (Although, honestly, we match up much better with Carolina then Duke. Mikalauskas has always played Tyler very well, and we only lost to Carolina by 1 earlier in the year, albeit it was when Lawson was out.)

[Jagwar]

Not saying it can't be done, but I don't expect anyone playing on Thursday in this tournament to win it for a long time, it's just too much to ask.


I think the only way 4 wins takes the title is if both of the finalists played on Thursday.

The 2004 team (16-11, 7-9) shocked everyone by beating the top 3 seeds in succession on their way to the ACC title. Is it probable for the 2008 team? No. But anything is possible. I will root for them to win one game at a time.

Question: Anyone know what the Terps SOS and RPI were heading into the ACC tourney that year? Were they a bubble team?

[SteveA]

Thursday:

8-Wake Forest vs. 9- Florida State, noon
5- Miami (FL) vs. 12- NC State, 2:30 pm
7- Georgia Tech vs. 10- Virginia, 7 pm
6- Maryland vs. 11- Boston College, 9:30 pm

Friday:
1- North Carolina vs winner, noon
4- Virginia Tech vs. winner, 2:30 pm
2- Duke vs. winner, 7 pm
3- Clemson vs. winner, 9:30 pm



My picks:
Florida State easily over Wake
Miami beats NCState by 5-8
Virginia beats GT by 3-5
Maryland edges BC in a very close game

UNC by double digits over Florida State
Virginia Tech over Miami by 5-8
Duke edges UVa in a fairly close game
Clemson over Maryland by 10

UNC over Virginia Tech by about 10 points
Clemson over Duke in a close game

UNC over Clemson by about 10

[Camden_yardbird]

How far are the Terps going to have to go in this tourney to get into the NCAA?

I would think finals is a must.

[YardBirds13]

Gooooooood morning OH'ers....


Yardbirds here, coming to you liiiiive from the beautiful Queen City, Charlotte, North Carolina, as we get ready for the 55th annual ACC Tournament.

In between sessions and at nights, I'll try and give a little perspective from the arena, some stuff maybe not so obvious on TV (Usually the crowds are deceptive on TV)

I'll also be able to post from the arena thanks to the glorious iPhone, so if any of you die-hards are curious about stuff going on in the arena that you can't really tell on TV, feel free to ask.

The great thing about the ACC this year is that so many teams are so close to each other. The regulare season produced a ton of very close and overtime games, so I'm expecting nothing less from the tournament.

The noon game today features Wake Forest and Florida State. Should be a nice matchup. They played twice during the regular season, with the Deacs winning both match-ups. Back on January 20th, Wake won in Winston-Salem handily 74-57. In the re-match in Tallahassee on February 14th, Wake won 78-70. Florida State really relies on their backcourt of Toney Douglas and Jason Rich, while Wake has become a pretty balanced team this year, but is led by lots of young players like Sopohmores Ish Smith and L.D. Williams, and Freshmen Jeff Teague, and the guy I thought should have been Freshmen of the Year James Johnson. I know it's hard to win 3 times against someone in a year, but I like Wake to win in what should be a close, entertaining game.

The other afternoon game is Miami and N.C. State. State is probably the most disappointing team in the league to me (Yes, even more than my Hoos). I really thought their frontcourt would overpower people and they'd finish near the top of the league. Their PG problems were just too much to overcome this season. Miami is probably gonna get in the tournament, but they might want to win this to go ahead and feel better about themselves. 1st Team All-ACC guard Jack McClinton is the guy to watch for Miami, as he can go off for 30 at any time. State loves that methodical pace, and everyone remembers what they did in the tournament last year, so don't count out an awakening from the Wolfpack. However, State has lost 8 in a row. The teams met only once in the regular season, in Raleigh way back on January 19th, with State winning in overtime by 2, 79-77. I expect this one to be close as well, and even though State will have a huge crowd advantage, I expect McClinton to carry Miami to a win, which sets up a great match-up tomorrow between Miami and Virginia Tech, which would amount to almost a play in game for the NCAA tournament.

Alright, I'm getting ready to head down to the Bobcats Arena. Everyone enjoy the action this afternoon!

[BaltimoreTerp]

I'm wearing my Eric Hayes jersey and my lucky Maryland shirt all day, so I'm ready and excited!

Fear the turtle...and the 'fro!

[crstrobel]

Anyone have a link to how we can listen to all the games on the computer?

[glenn__davis]

How far are the Terps going to have to go in this tourney to get into the NCAA?

I would think finals is a must.

Yep, I think at this point they probably need 3 wins minimum. Don't see it happening, but still..

Lets gooooooooooooooo, Maryland!

[Avsfan]

Best 4 days of college bball

:D

[Mackus]

Best 4 days of college bball

:DThe first four days of the NCAA tournament are better, but these are the second best 4 days.

[Mackus]

Yep, I think at this point they probably need 3 wins minimum. Don't see it happening, but still..

Lets gooooooooooooooo, Maryland!If they win 2 I think they still have an outside chance, although it'd certainly be less than a 50/50 shot. 3 gets them in, IMO, although I agree I don't see it happening.

[Avsfan]

The first four days of the NCAA tournament are better, but these are the second best 4 days.


I could care less what South Carolina State Tech A&M does...


:p

Give me my ACC teams, head to head...

[Mackus]

I could care less what South Carolina State Tech A&M does...


:p

Give me my ACC teams, head to head...Unless they beat a #2 seed, then everyone will care a whole lot!

There are 11 games over these 4 days.

There are 48 games over the first 4 days of the NCAA.

I will agree that a higher percentage of the 11 ACC tourney games will be great than the 48 NCAA tourney games, but the NCAA tourney will have more overall great games.

[glenn__davis]

Gotta be honest, I don't see MD winning this game. I don't know if there's a team in any of the major conference that must feel as bad about itself as MD. After ruining most of their hopes for an at-large bid by twice snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, at HOME no less, I wonder how much they've got left.

Hope I'm wrong, obviously.

Mackus, I agree with 3 wins as long as one of them is against UNC or Duke. Frankly, I'd just like to see one of them get knocked off. We've had fans of those schools on here looking forward to that finals match-up, and while I respect most of those folks, I hate it when people do that.

[Sports Guy]

How about Duke and UNC winning their first games by identical scores??

[beaner]

How about Duke and UNC winning their first games by identical scores??

Interesting. Just take care of Clemson tomorrow so we can play again on Sunday. You were MIA last weekend and took away much of my enjoyment. ;)

[Sports Guy]

I haven't seen much of the game but what an impressive showing by Clemson tonight.

[Sports Guy]

82 is the number of the day....3 of the 4 winning teams score 82 points.

[beaner]

I haven't seen much of the game but what an impressive showing by Clemson tonight.

Clemson looked great, albeit against a pretty bad BC team. I've been high on Clemson all year as you know, and wouldn't be shocked to see them beat Duke and Carolina the next two days to be honest.

However, deep down in my heart of hearts, I'd like to see Carolina/Duke tomorrow.

[Sports Guy]

UNC got very very lucky.

Now, let's see if Duke can take care of business themselves.

[beaner]

UNC got very very lucky.

Now, let's see if Duke can take care of business themselves.

Seth Greenberg is a great basketball coach. Great effort by Virginia Tech today. Glad we rallied at the end, but that game could have gone either way.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I would like to congratulate Tyler Hansborough on winning the National Player of the Year Award.

[Pushmonkey]

I would like to congratulate Tyler Hansborough on winning the National Player of the Year Award.

If he was smart he would stay another year at that other school because I just do not see him being a very good pro player.

[beaner]

If he was smart he would stay another year at that other school because I just do not see him being a very good pro player.

I could throw back a JJ Redick/Shelden Williams/William Avery/Trajan Langdon type answer, but I won't.

In truth, yes, he doesn't have the pro potential as a Michael Beasley, OJ Mayo, or Derrick Rose. I think he'll make a roster and be a hustle player a la Joakim Noah ,with less size but more pure basketball skills.

[Pushmonkey]

I could throw back a JJ Redick/Shelden Williams/William Avery/Trajan Langdon type answer, but I won't.

In truth, yes, he doesn't have the pro potential as a Michael Beasley, OJ Mayo, or Derrick Rose. I think he'll make a roster and be a hustle player a la Joakim Noah ,with less size but more pure basketball skills.

I will agree about the players you mentioned not being a pro success-then again I could really care less about the NBA. My concern On T is that he is not a shot blocker and if he is to play the PF in the pro's may get pushed off the blocks and although he has shown a 16 footer I just don't think that translates well to the NBA.

Hopefully the current game turns out like last game so the two best ACC teams play tomorrow.

[beaner]

I will agree about the players you mentioned not being a pro success-then again I could really care less about the NBA. My concern On T is that he is not a shot blocker and if he is to play the PF in the pro's may get pushed off the blocks and although he has shown a 16 footer I just don't think that translates well to the NBA.

Hopefully the current game turns out like last game so the two best ACC teams play tomorrow.

Can't disagree, he really doesn't have a position at the next level. But he's such a hard worker, he'd be able to help someone on some level.

[Sports Guy]

No way Tyler Hansbrough isn't a productive player in the NBA.

Maybe he is just a 12 point, 7 reb guy but that has a lot of value...He will probably have a long career.

BTW, I have never felt Duke would win this game as I watched it today....Just not playing well.

Looks like Clemson/UNC final...Duke will be a #2 seed, probably in the south...Hopefully with Tennessee as the #1.

Looks to me that Singler has hit a wall and the rest is really needed.

[mweb]

Can't disagree, he really doesn't have a position at the next level. But he's such a hard worker, he'd be able to help someone on some level.

Why doesn't he have a position? He has the size, strength, and athleticism to play the 4, and even the 5 against some teams.

[BustaJ2632]

Gotta feel good for this Clemson team. First ACC final since 1962, wow. It hurt watching them a couple weeks ago but this is a fun team to watch, I will enjoy seeing them in the tournament.

[Sports Guy]

All the credit to Clemson for hitting their FTs.

A normal game at the free throw line for the Tigers and they lose the game.

Mays especially really stepped up.

[beaner]

All the credit to Clemson for hitting their FTs.

A normal game at the free throw line for the Tigers and they lose the game.

Mays especially really stepped up.

How about Clemson finally coming through down the stretch. If they'd have done that earlier in the year, they'd have beaten Carolina twice. Should a physical one tomorrow. Can't wait.

[mweb]

All the credit to Clemson for hitting their FTs.

A normal game at the free throw line for the Tigers and they lose the game.

Mays especially really stepped up.

A normal FT shooting game for them would have meant 1 less point.

And a normal FT shooting game for Duke would have meant 4 less points for them.

[Sports Guy]

A normal FT shooting game for them would have meant 1 less point.

And a normal FT shooting game for Duke would have meant 4 less points for them.

I am taking down the stretch...No chance you expect Clemson, especially the guys who went to the line, to hit those FTs as the game ended.

[mweb]

I am taking down the stretch...No chance you expect Clemson, especially the guys who went to the line, to hit those FTs as the game ended.

Well even if they missed 2 of those, they would have most likely won. Regardless, FT shooting is not why Clemson won or why Duke lost.

[beaner]

Well even if they missed 2 of those, they would have most likely won. Regardless, FT shooting is not why Clemson won or why Duke lost.

Clemson deserved to win, no question. Not to speak for Rob, but I think he was just giving credit to Clemson for hitting their free throws, not neccesarily saying they wouldn't have won otherwise. If that makes sense.

[mweb]

Clemson deserved to win, no question. Not to speak for Rob, but I think he was just giving credit to Clemson for hitting their free throws, not neccesarily saying they wouldn't have won otherwise. If that makes sense.

Not trying to get into a big debate over this, but that's not what this means: "A normal game at the free throw line for the Tigers and they lose the game."

That's wrong. Now to give the credit for hitting FT's at the end of the game does make sense.

[Sports Guy]

Clemson deserved to win, no question. Not to speak for Rob, but I think he was just giving credit to Clemson for hitting their free throws, not neccesarily saying they wouldn't have won otherwise. If that makes sense.

Clemson hit their FTs down the stretch, something they usually struggle doing.

That is the biggest reason they held on to win the game IMO.

I also felt K should have put Zoubek in the game for a about 2-3 minute stretch around the 6 minute mark because Clemson killed them down low in that stretch.

[Sports Guy]

Not trying to get into a big debate over this, but that's not what this means: "A normal game at the free throw line for the Tigers and they lose the game."

That's wrong. Now to give the credit for hitting FT's at the end of the game does make sense.

Of course you are...Its what you do. :D

[beaner]

Not trying to get into a big debate over this, but that's not what this means: "A normal game at the free throw line for the Tigers and they lose the game."

That's wrong. Now to give the credit for hitting FT's at the end of the game does make sense.

You're right. See what happens when I try to give a Duke fan credit. I should've known better. ;)

[mweb]

Of course you are...Its what you do. :D

I'm actually not, and I haven't even been posting that much lately, so it's certainly something I do less of now. And look who's talking.;)

Your post just wasn't worded very well, and I didn't like it's false implications.

[mweb]

You're right. See what happens when I try to give a Duke fan credit. I should've known better. ;)

Yeah, what were you thinking?:D

But seriously why don't you think Tyler has a position in the NBA?

I'm not saying he'll be great, or even good, but I think he clearly has a position.

[beaner]

Yeah, what were you thinking?:D

But seriously why don't you think Tyler has a position in the NBA?

I'm not saying he'll be great, or even good, but I think he clearly has a position.

He has the size and strength to play the 4, but while in college can get position on the other PF's, I just don't see it happening in the pros. If he were a little taller, he'd be Joakim Noah with more skills. He can be the hustle player that every coach loves and he'll give the starter fits in practice every day.

[mweb]

He has the size and strength to play the 4, but while in college can get position on the other PF's, I just don't see it happening in the pros. If he were a little taller, he'd be Joakim Noah with more skills. He can be the hustle player that every coach loves and he'll give the starter fits in practice every day.

Noah isn't much taller, and isn't nearly as strong. Tyler has similiar, actually a litter better size and similiar athleticism compared to Brand and Boozer. I'm not saying he'll be nearly as good as those two former Dukies, but he has similiar potential imo. I think he'll probably turn out to be a solid starter, a guy who shoots a good % from the field, and puts up about 15 and 10.

[Sports Guy]

Noah isn't much taller, and isn't nearly as strong. Tyler has similiar, actually a litter better size and similiar athleticism compared to Brand and Boozer. I'm not saying he'll be nearly as good as those two former Dukies, but he has similiar potential imo. I think he'll probably turn out to be a solid starter, a guy who shoots a good % from the field, and puts up about 15 and 10.

I pretty much agree with this.

I think people are totally wrong about TH.

The guy wants it too much to not be successful.

[YardBirds13]

Today is the reason I love the ACC so much.

What a great pair of games, just doesn't get much better than that.

The atmosphere was so great in there, a TON of Carolina fans.

Tech played really well and showed that they are good enough to make the tournament (unfortunately they probably aren't getting in)

Clemson looked great, and I think they will give Carolina all they want tomorrow.

Great atmosphere inside Bobcats Arena today, really looking forward to tomorrow.

[beaner]

I pretty much agree with this.

I think people are totally wrong about TH.

The guy wants it too much to not be successful.

I hope both of you are right, believe me. I love the guy, and I hope he has a long successful career in the NBA. Just not starting next year.

[beaner]

Today is the reason I love the ACC so much.

What a great pair of games, just doesn't get much better than that.

The atmosphere was so great in there, a TON of Carolina fans.

Tech played really well and showed that they are good enough to make the tournament (unfortunately they probably aren't getting in)

Clemson looked great, and I think they will give Carolina all they want tomorrow.

Great atmosphere inside Bobcats Arena today, really looking forward to tomorrow.

It looked great on TV too. It seemed that Virginia Tech and Clemson were well represented fan wise as well. Tomorrow should be a great game, hopefully the Heels will cut down the nets, and then do it again in the same building in two weeks.

[mweb]

I hope both of you are right, believe me. I love the guy, and I hope he has a long successful career in the NBA. Just not starting next year.

Nah, lets just start it next year.;)

BTW, I don't think you should continue to be so harsh on Duke players NBA track records. It would be hard to come up with a better NBA team from a school's alumni.

[beaner]

Nah, lets just start it next year.;)

BTW, I don't think you should continue to be so harsh on Duke players NBA track records. It would be hard to come up with a better NBA team from a school's alumni.

Redick, Shelden Williams, Duhon, McRoberts, and Randolph?

[mweb]

Redick, Shelden Williams, Duhon, McRoberts, and Randolph?

Haha, well Duhon might have to start at the point, and Reddick and Shelden would come off the bench.

But their main players other than Duhon would be:

Brand
Boozer
Hill
Maggette
Deng
Dunleavy

2 all star big men, two swingmen in Maggette and Dunleavy that are near AS level, and two other good swingmen in Deng and Hill. Grant would probably play some point on that squad. Not bad at all.

UNC would have Vince, Wallace, Jamison, Stackhouse, Heywood, McCants, Felton, Wright, Williams, and some guys I'm sure I'm forgetting. They'd be good at the 2-4 slots, PG and C not looking too good though.

[beaner]

Haha, well Duhon might have to start at the point, and Reddick and Shelden would come off the bench.

But their main players other than Duhon would be:

Brand
Boozer
Hill
Maggette
Deng
Dunleavy

2 all star big men, two swingmen in Maggette and Dunleavy that are near AS level, and two other good swingmen in Deng and Hill. Grant would probably play some point on that squad. Not bad at all.

I'm not high on Dunleavy (I'd rather have Battier), but that's a damn good team. However, when your lottery Alumni include:
William Avery
Trajan Langdon
Cherokee Parks
Redick
Shelden Williams
Alaa Abdelnaby
Bobby Hurley
and
Jay Jason Williams

you deserve to be made fun of. With all due respect to the ones you mentioned of course.

And you can count our lottery busts on one hand. I'm talking to you Eric Montross, even though I love ya big guy!

[Sports Guy]

I'm not high on Dunleavy (I'd rather have Battier), but that's a damn good team. However, when your lottery Alumni include:
William Avery
Trajan Langdon
Cherokee Parks
Redick
Shelden Williams
Alaa Abdelnaby
Bobby Hurley
and
Jay Jason Williams

you deserve to be made fun of. With all due respect to the ones you mentioned of course.

And you can count our lottery busts on one hand. I'm talking to you Eric Montross, even though I love ya big guy!Redick is going to be a solid contributor although he was "over drafted".

I still think Shelden Williams can be a 12 and 7 type guy.

Not fair to put Williams in there...He may be an AS right now or may be nothing.

[Sports Guy]

It will be interesting to see what this loss does to Duke's seed.

They have a lot of good wins and a top 5 RPI but they have only won 6 out of their last 10.

UCLA, UNC, Memphis, Texas, Kansas and Tennessee seem assured of a #1 or #2 seed.

Then, you have GTown, Wisconsin, Duke and Stanford fighting for the other 2 #2 seeds.

If GTown and Stanford win their conference tourney's, they may have to be #2 over Duke.

Wisconsin, especially since they only need to beat Illinois, may deserve it as well but Duke killed them earlier this year and the Big 10 isn't that good.

Of course, if Duke can get a #3 seed in the East, that would be nice.

[beaner]

Redick is going to be a solid contributor although he was "over drafted".

I still think Shelden Williams can be a 12 and 7 type guy.

Not fair to put Williams in there...He may be an AS right now or may be nothing.

Redick may be a solid contributor to the Washington Mystics maybe. I thought he'd be better than he has been.
12 DNP's-Coaches decision and 7 fouls for Shelden is all the 12-7 he's going to get. He's better off being a real landlord.

I won't even discuss Jason Jay Williams, I wish him a full recovery but he only has himself to blame.

[beaner]

It will be interesting to see what this loss does to Duke's seed.

They have a lot of good wins and a top 5 RPI but they have only won 6 out of their last 10.

UCLA, UNC, Memphis, Texas, Kansas and Tennessee seem assured of a #1 or #2 seed.

Then, you have GTown, Wisconsin, Duke and Stanford fighting for the other 2 #2 seeds.

If GTown and Stanford win their conference tourney's, they may have to be #2 over Duke.

Wisconsin, especially since they only need to beat Illinois, may deserve it as well but Duke killed them earlier this year and the Big 10 isn't that good.

Of course, if Duke can get a #3 seed in the East, that would be nice.


Duke probably falls to the three line in my opinion, but not in the East. No shot of giving them a chance to play in Charlotte. I wonder if it would be different had Carolina lost today and Duke played Va Tech tomorrow.

[Sports Guy]

Redick may be a solid contributor to the Washington Mystics maybe. I thought he'd be better than he has been.
12 DNP's-Coaches decision and 7 fouls for Shelden is all the 12-7 he's going to get. He's better off being a real landlord.

I won't even discuss Jason Jay Williams, I wish him a full recovery but he only has himself to blame.

Tough to be good when you don't play.

However, a lot of teams wanted to trade for him and the Magic wouldn't trade him.

His defense isn't that good...We knew that. That is why he isn't playing...However, the few guys in front of him in Orlando are FAs this year and the talk is Redick may start at the 2 guard next year.

His game is shooting and shooting is a lost art in the league.

[mweb]

I'm not high on Dunleavy (I'd rather have Battier), but that's a damn good team. However, when your lottery Alumni include:
William Avery
Trajan Langdon
Cherokee Parks
Redick
Shelden Williams
Alaa Abdelnaby
Bobby Hurley
and
Jay Jason Williams

you deserve to be made fun of. With all due respect to the ones you mentioned of course.

And you can count our lottery busts on one hand. I'm talking to you Eric Montross, even though I love ya big guy!


Oh yeah, forgot Battier.

2 of those guys weren't lottery picks, and some were picked towards the end of the lottery. Can't call Reddick and Williams a bust just yet either. Jay Williams obviously was a bust due to crashing his bike, so that's a little different.

Bottomline, the Duke team would have a good shot at beating the UNC team.

[beaner]

Tough to be good when you don't play.

However, a lot of teams wanted to trade for him and the Magic wouldn't trade him.

His defense isn't that good...We knew that. That is why he isn't playing...However, the few guys in front of him in Orlando are FAs this year and the talk is Redick may start at the 2 guard next year.

His game is shooting and shooting is a lost art in the league.

He showed more ability to create his own shot his Senior season and I thought that would've translated by now. Maybe you're right and he'll get more time. I know his brother has been battling cancer lately, and obviously that's been on his mind as well. He was supposed to have surgery at Duke last week, hopefully that went well.

[Sports Guy]

Duke probably falls to the three line in my opinion, but not in the East. No shot of giving them a chance to play in Charlotte. I wonder if it would be different had Carolina lost today and Duke played Va Tech tomorrow.

I think if Duke had won the ACC tourney and beaten UNC, both of them would be #1s.

Looks like UCLA should hold on, so Stanford stays a #3.

So, it will depend on Wisconson and GTown...Personally, i think GTown is a #2 regardless of the outcome tonight.

So really, it will be Wisconsin or Duke for the final #2 seed it looks like...Duke has a higher RPI, 6 more top 100 wins and a much harder SOS and of course, they destroyed Wisconsin this year.

To be honest, the seeds matter very little....It is cool to say you are a #1 seed and the amount of #1 seeds Duke has had in the last 20 years is amazing but it really comes down to matchups.

The question is, how much weight will the committee give Wisconsin for winning their conference, both in the tourney and reg season(if they beat Ill tomorrow)??

[beaner]

Oh yeah, forgot Battier.

2 of those guys weren't lottery picks, and most were picked towards the end of the lottery. Can't call Reddick and Williams a bust just yet either. Jay Williams obviously was a bust due to crashing his bike, so that's a little different.

Bottomline, the Duke team would have a good shot at beating the UNC team.

I like what Battier has become in the league. He knew his limitations and has become that "glue" type player who has a nice touch from the outside. I am very comfortable calling Shelden Williams a bust. Some of the reports I read when the Hawks dealt him led me to believe that he won't be long for the league.

We'll never know of course, but our team would be deeper, even if their starting five MIGHT be a little stronger.

[beaner]

I think if Duke had won the ACC tourney and beaten UNC, both of them would be #1s.

Looks like UCLA should hold on, so Stanford stays a #3.

So, it will depend on Wisconson and GTown...Personally, i think GTown is a #2 regardless of the outcome tonight.

So really, it will be Wisconsin or Duke for the final #2 seed it looks like...Duke has a higher RPI, 6 more top 100 wins and a much harder SOS and of course, they destroyed Wisconsin this year.

To be honest, the seeds matter very little....It is cool to say you are a #1 seed and the amount of #1 seeds Duke has had in the last 20 years is amazing but it really comes down to matchups.

The question is, how much weight will the committee give Wisconsin for winning their conference, both in the tourney and reg season(if they beat Ill tomorrow)??

I think Duke is much better than Wisconsin, you know how I feel about them. However, the Big Ten Champ is more likely to get the higher seed. Just hope Duke is the #3 to Wisconsins #2. And if you're lucky enough to get Memphis or Tennessee, then we'll see you in the Final Four.

[Sports Guy]

BTW, just because teams were dumb enough to draft guys like Avery and Langdon in the lottery shouldn't hurt those guys....Avery showed some flashes but clearly wasn't ready and Langdon was nothing more than a good college player who maybe could have been a 10th guy on an NBA bench.

In other words, just because scouts overrated their ability, doesn't mean that should be a slight against the Duke program.

BTW, Dunleavy is having a very good year this year. Averaging 18/5/3....Shooting almost 48% from the field and almost 84% from the FT line.

Since he got to Indiana, he has been a much better player.

[mweb]

I like what Battier has become in the league. He knew his limitations and has become that "glue" type player who has a nice touch from the outside. I am very comfortable calling Shelden Williams a bust. Some of the reports I read when the Hawks dealt him led me to believe that he won't be long for the league.

We'll never know of course, but our team would be deeper, even if their starting five MIGHT be a little stronger.

In one game, I don't think the 9-12 members of the team would make much of a difference. I'll take Duke because they would have the best two players imo, and matchup just fine at the 2 and the 3, neither team is good at the 1.

But who knows, maybe Vince would actually be motivated in this game.:D

[Sports Guy]

I think Duke is much better than Wisconsin, you know how I feel about them. However, the Big Ten Champ is more likely to get the higher seed. Just hope Duke is the #3 to Wisconsins #2. And if you're lucky enough to get Memphis or Tennessee, then we'll see you in the Final Four.

This is what I am hoping.

Whether Duke is a #2 or #3, i am hoping Wisconsin is the other.....And I would like to be in with Tennessee or Memphis.

I don't know who to pick this year.

Some of Duke's guys seem to have hit a wall, especially Singler...I could see them bounced in the second round or win it all.

I am still not sure if UNC will play consistent enough defense for 6 games to win it all.

Tennessee is going to be the first #1 seed bounced IMO.

Memphis is going to lose because of FTs.

UCLA seems to be the most complete team but they sometimes struggle to score....They are probably the team i would pick right now but they are no slam dunk.

The reality is there are no great teams this year and the tourney is more wide open that it probably ever has been.

[beaner]

In one game, I don't think the 9-12 members of the team would make much of a difference. I'll take Duke because they would have the best two players imo, and matchup just fine at the 2 and the 3, neither team is good at the 1.

But who knows, maybe Vince would actually be motivated in this game.:D

Felton is pretty good, I wouldn't say we don't have a #1. I can't comment on Vince, I just don't understand the guy for the life of me. He just got too famous, too fast. Still scores at will when he wants to, but he has no knees anymore and just doesn't play hard all the time.

[beaner]

This is what I am hoping.

Whether Duke is a #2 or #3, i am hoping Wisconsin is the other.....And I would like to be in with Tennessee or Memphis.

I don't know who to pick this year.

Some of Duke's guys seem to have hit a wall, especially Singler...I could see them bounced in the second round or win it all.

I am still not sure if UNC will play consistent enough defense for 6 games to win it all.

Tennessee is going to be the first #1 seed bounced IMO.

Memphis is going to lose because of FTs.

UCLA seems to be the most complete team but they sometimes struggle to score....They are probably the team i would pick right now but they are no slam dunk.

The reality is there are no great teams this year and the tourney is more wide open that it probably ever has been.

Tennessee or Memphis won't make the Elite Eight. Calipari has never won a big game, and Tennesse doesn't do it for me at all. I could see Duke and Carolina both making the Final Four. I agree with UCLA, and I hope to God that we don't get stuck with Georgetown again as the #2 in the East. I'm praying for Wisconsin like I did last year.

[mweb]

Felton is pretty good, I wouldn't say we don't have a #1. I can't comment on Vince, I just don't understand the guy for the life of me. He just got too famous, too fast. Still scores at will when he wants to, but he has no knees anymore and just doesn't play hard all the time.

I said a good PG, I think Felton is average, not that much better than Duhon.

Yeah, Vince could have been so much better.

[Sports Guy]

Tennessee or Memphis won't make the Elite Eight. Calipari has never won a big game, and Tennesse doesn't do it for me at all. I could see Duke and Carolina both making the Final Four. I agree with UCLA, and I hope to God that we don't get stuck with Georgetown again as the #2 in the East. I'm praying for Wisconsin like I did last year.

That's going to happen, especially if GTown wins their tourney.

I wonder if Duke gets the #3 seed if they will still play their first round games in Raleigh? Not sure but I hope they are there for the first 2 rounds.

[mweb]

Wake will take on all comers with Paul, Duncan, Howard, Songaila, and whoever else that can still play a little, maybe Rodney Rogers and Randolph Childress.:D Or just use guys off their current team, probably wouldn't matter with how good their top 3 are.

[beaner]

That's going to happen, especially if GTown wins their tourney.

I wonder if Duke gets the #3 seed if they will still play their first round games in Raleigh? Not sure but I hope they are there for the first 2 rounds.

I'm afraid you may be right. Go Pitt!

I think Duke will play the first two rounds in Raleigh.

[beaner]

Wake will take on all comers with Paul, Duncan, Howard, Songaila, and whoever else that can still play a little, maybe Rodney Rogers and Randolph Childress.:D Or just use guys off their current team, probably wouldn't matter with how good their top 3 are.

Wow, that's a great team. Muggsy could back up Paul, that would be fun.

[Sports Guy]

Wake will take on all comers with Paul, Duncan, Howard, Songaila, and whoever else that can still play a little, maybe Rodney Rogers and Randolph Childress.:D Or just use guys off their current team, probably wouldn't matter with how good their top 3 are.

Yea...Billy Packer could play with those 3 and they would be fine.

[beaner]

Tennessee just lost to Arkansas, I wonder if that changes anything?

[Sports Guy]

Tennessee just lost to Arkansas, I wonder if that changes anything?



I think UNC, UCLA and Memphis are guaranteed #1 seeds at this point.

I think you have to give the other #1 seed to the winner of the Texas/Kansas game.

So, Tennessee falls to #2 IMO.

[beaner]

I think UNC, UCLA and Memphis are guaranteed #1 seeds at this point.

I think you have to give the other #1 seed to the winner of the Texas/Kansas game.

So, Tennessee falls to #2 IMO.

Yep, I agree. Georgetown, Tennessee, Wisky, and Tex/Kan loser as the #2's?

[Sports Guy]

Yep, I agree. Georgetown, Tennessee, Wisky, and Tex/Kan loser as the #2's?

I think Tex/Kan loser, GTown and Tenn are guaranteed #2 seeds at this point.

So, the final #2 will be Wisconsin or Duke.

[mweb]

Wake will take on all comers with Paul, Duncan, Howard, Songaila, and whoever else that can still play a little, maybe Rodney Rogers and Randolph Childress.:D Or just use guys off their current team, probably wouldn't matter with how good their top 3 are.

BTW, in my opinion, they'd have the best two players in the NBA that went to college, that's how great the Duncan/Paul duo would be.

[beaner]

BTW, in my opinion, they'd have the best two players in the NBA that went to college, that's how great the Duncan/Paul duo would be.

As SG himself would say, "wow, just wow".

[beaner]

I think Tex/Kan loser, GTown and Tenn are guaranteed #2 seeds at this point.

So, the final #2 will be Wisconsin or Duke.

Hopefully they'll be 2 and 3 together anyway.

[Sports Guy]

Hopefully they'll be 2 and 3 together anyway.

Not sure how the committee looks at that.

The weakest #2 seed is supposed to be with the strongest #1 seed but that doesn't seem to usually happen. If Duke gets the final #2 seed, in theory, they would be the weakest #2...Well, if UNC wins tomorrow, i assume they are the #1 #1 seed...Duke can't be with them as a #2.

So, if Wisconsin is the last #2, then do they put the best #3(Duke in this case) with them?

I could see a Memphis, Wisconsin, Duke 1-3(in some order) in the South.

BTW, i am looking forward to next year already...Duke may be the preseason favorite unless the 3 big guys come back for UNC.

[backwardsk]

The ACC has to get five teams in now with VA Tech's showing. It's laughable that other conferences get 6 teams in and cry about not getting a seventh when the ACC outclasses all other conferences. I was listening to Seth Greenberg's PC after the game. He said, and I paraphrase, "We (the ACC) have the best RPI in country and year in and year out kick the Big Ten's butt at the beginning of the season. Now here we are sweating it out to see if our league can get a fifth team in." I can't disagree with anything he says.

I was hoping to see a Duke/UNC game tomorrow, but I couldn't root against Clemson while they were playing well. Their big guys were great with the high post/low post game and with their clutch free throws. But the play of the game, imo, was when Oglesby (or whatever his name is) hit that long range three to make the score 67-60. He increased the lead to a 3 possession game. Duke never had the ball with a chance to tie after that. If he misses that shot, Duke could have cut the lead to a basket or one point.

By the way, in the Duke/UNC pros game, I've got Cherokee Parks coming out of retirement and taking over down low.

[Sports Guy]

I just don't see VaTech getting in.

Their RPI isn't that great..They only have 1 top 50 win and 6 total in the top 100.

Their SOS is only 51st...They didn't beat any of the top 3 ACC teams this year and UNC, as well as they played them today, beat them by 39 not that long ago.

They are only 5-5 in their last 10.

But VT has too many bad losses and not enough marquis wins to make it IMO.

Almost winning doesn't count on paper...It passes the eye test but not the "paper test".

If you take out Duke and UNC, the ACC's stats really come down.

VT doesn't deserve to get in because Duke and UNC are that good.

[Dr. FLK]

I said a good PG, I think Felton is average, not that much better than Duhon.


Felton's 15 PPG and 7 APG aren't much better than Duhon's 5 PPG and 4 APG? Interesting...

[Dr. FLK]

I just don't see VaTech getting in.

Their RPI isn't that great..They only have 1 top 50 win and 6 total in the top 100.

Their SOS is only 51st...They didn't beat any of the top 3 ACC teams this year and UNC, as well as they played them today, beat them by 39 not that long ago.

They are only 5-5 in their last 10.

But VT has too many bad losses and not enough marquis wins to make it IMO.

Almost winning doesn't count on paper...It passes the eye test but not the "paper test".

If you take out Duke and UNC, the ACC's stats really come down.

VT doesn't deserve to get in because Duke and UNC are that good.

Well said. They played tough teams in conference, but they didn't beat any of them. I believe that they played UNC, Duke, Clemson, and Miami only once each in the regular season and lost all 4 of those games. UNC beat them by roughly 93 points with no PG the first time around. They lost to 4 mid majors in the out of conference schedule (Butler, Gonzaga, ODU, Richmond). And, I can't stand Deron Washington. Add up all of those factors, and I think they are headed for the NIT.

[mweb]

Felton's 15 PPG and 7 APG aren't much better than Duhon's 5 PPG and 4 APG? Interesting...

It would also be interesting if you considered playing time, past performance, among other things. Felton is better, but not by a great deal, and isn't an above average PG.

[Sports Guy]

It would also be interesting if you considered playing time, past performance, among other things. Felton is better, but not by a great deal, and isn't an above average PG.

Yea....Felton gets another 8 minutes a game...He is averaging about 3 more assists and 7 more PPG over their careers.

If Duhon was a starter, he could probably be close to those numbers.

As you say, Felton is better but i don't think the gap is huge.

BTW, in 8 more minutes, Felton turns it over almost twice as much as Duhon and Duhon has the better A/TO ratio.

[Burg]

I just don't see VaTech getting in.

Their RPI isn't that great..They only have 1 top 50 win and 6 total in the top 100.

Their SOS is only 51st...They didn't beat any of the top 3 ACC teams this year and UNC, as well as they played them today, beat them by 39 not that long ago.

They are only 5-5 in their last 10.

But VT has too many bad losses and not enough marquis wins to make it IMO.

Almost winning doesn't count on paper...It passes the eye test but not the "paper test".

If you take out Duke and UNC, the ACC's stats really come down.

VT doesn't deserve to get in because Duke and UNC are that good.

Couple of counter-arguments.

Committee is apparently using the "Last 12". If so, VT is 7-5 with two losses by a total of 3 points, and is 5-2 in the last seven. VT has also improved demonstrably over the course of the year and is playing their best basketball right now.

Granted, VT has only beat one Top 50 RPI team, but they did so recently and convincingly. They also lost in OT to Butler and took UNC to the wire in a game that I'm sure was watched by the committee.

Also, and I find this interesting, they are very similar to UVA last year "numbers-wise".

Last year - UVA - #4 seed - 19-10; #55 RPI with the #49 SOS
This year - VT - ???? - 19-13; #55 RPI with the #36 SOS.

Same RPI, better SOS, same number of wins. I know that UVA tied for the regular season title last year in the ACC but the numbers are very similar.

Who knows? I'm ecstatic with the season that VT had considering all the youth and inexperience. If we don't make the dance, I'm confident that we'll have a deep NIT run.

The future is bright in Blacksburg.

[Sports Guy]

Couple of counter-arguments.

Committee is apparently using the "Last 12". If so, VT is 7-5 with two losses by a total of 3 points. VT has also improved demonstrably over the course of the year.

Granted, VT has only beat one Top 50 RPI team, but they did so recently and convincingly. They also lost in OT to Butler and took UNC to the wire in a game that I'm sure was watched by the committee.

Also, and I find this interesting, they are very similar to UVA last year "numbers-wise".

Last year - UVA - #4 seed - 19-10; #55 RPI with the #49 SOS
This year - VT - ???? - 19-13; #55 RPI with the #36 SOS.

Same RPI, better SOS, same number of wins. I know that UVA tied for the regular season title last year in the ACC but the numbers are very similar.

Who knows? I'm ecstatic with the season that VT had considering all the youth and inexperience. If we don't make the dance, I'm confident that we'll have a deep NIT run.

The future is bright in Blacksburg.
There is no doubt about that.....They are in good shape long term and had a great season.

But, they just didn't do enough IMO. Shame Washington fouled out today...Maybe the game ends up differently.

Had they beaten UNC and lost to Clemson tomorrow, I think they get in but only as an 11 or 12 seed.

So, they do get in but not by much.

I think you put them in the "last 4 out" category.

[beaner]

Lunardi just said on ESPNEWS that Virginia Tech was his last team out as of 10:00 tonight. maybe UNLV's win knocked them out. Who knows. Georgia and Illinois could win their tourneys in the next two days. Crazy.

[Sports Guy]

Lunardi just said on ESPNEWS that Virginia Tech was his last team out as of 10:00 tonight. maybe UNLV's win knocked them out. Who knows. Georgia and Illinois could win their tourneys in the next two days. Crazy.

And Lunardi has now dropped Duke to a the 3 line...That probably holds up unless Wisconsin loses.

BTW, i am hoping Mich St doesn't get the 6th seed with Duke.

[Sports Guy]

Kansas and Wisconsin win.

UCLA in the West, Kansas in the midwest, Memphis in the South and UNC in the East.

Wisconsin the #2 in the West, Texas in the South, GTown in the East and Tennessee in the midwest are my guesses.

I think Duke is sent out West as the #3 out there.

[Sports Guy]

BTW, as of 3:00, Lunardi has VT in as his last team.

If Georgia wins and it looks like they will, they will probably knock VT out of it.

[bbasal]

va tech should be in 9-7 in best conference in the country.

[Sports Guy]

va tech should be in 9-7 in best conference in the country.

Georgia doomed them IMO.

Be nice to see them get in but I don't think they deserve it over a team like Nova.

[beaner]

17 ACC Championships!!!!


Go Heels.

[backwardsk]

Regardless, ACC only getting four teams in is stupid.



Go Mason!!!