Fun facts about Mike Mussina

[Roy Firestone]

1. I share his birthday Dec 8.( Same as Sammy Davis Jr. Kim Bassinger, and Frank Sinatra.)
2. He has never won 20 games in a season
3.He has never been on a World Series Champion team
4. He earns 19 million dollars a season. According to the Baseball Almanac, that makes him the fourth highest paid player in the game
5.His last 5 starts his earned runs are: 1-2-1-3- and 1
6.Hes due to pitch a great game against us..its been a while

[PeteU]

1. I share his birthday Dec 8.( Same as Sammy Davis Jr. Kim Bassinger, and Frank Sinatra.)
2. He has never won 20 games in a season
3.He has never been on a World Series Champion team
4. He earns 19 million dollars a season. According to the Baseball Almanac, that makes him the fourth highest paid player in the game
5.His last 5 starts his earned runs are: 1-2-1-3- and 1
6.Hes due to pitch a great game against us..its been a while


As it relates to Number 4, Numbers 2 and 3 make me think he wasn't so lowballed by the O's as some people want you to believe.

[Mark Carver]

7. Since joining the Yankees in 2001, the Yankees have not won the World Series, despite them winning 4 out of 5 years prior to him joining them.

[Mark Carver]

1. I share his birthday Dec 8.( Same as Sammy Davis Jr. Kim Bassinger, and Frank Sinatra.)
2. He has never won 20 games in a season
3.He has never been on a World Series Champion team
4. He earns 19 million dollars a season. According to the Baseball Almanac, that makes him the fourth highest paid player in the game
5.His last 5 starts his earned runs are: 1-2-1-3- and 1
6.Hes due to pitch a great game against us..its been a while

His current contract with the Yankees that he signed with them back in Nov 2006, pays him $23m for 2 years ($11m a year with a $1m siging bonus).

Cots (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/new-york-yankees_111398168678860040.html)

[Boy Howdy]

8. Like another ex-Orioles that fled to the Bronx for Yankee$ dollar$, he has a candy bar named after him.


http://www.mikemussinafoundation.org/

(you have to click where it says "Moose" to see them)

[brvn52]

1. I share his birthday Dec 8.( Same as Sammy Davis Jr. Kim Bassinger, and Frank Sinatra.)
2. He has never won 20 games in a season
3.He has never been on a World Series Champion team
4. He earns 19 million dollars a season. According to the Baseball Almanac, that makes him the fourth highest paid player in the game
5.His last 5 starts his earned runs are: 1-2-1-3- and 1
6.Hes due to pitch a great game against us..its been a while

Does anyone have that picture of him coming back to OPACY and the guy holding a poster saying "Mussina, two years later, you're still a traitor! How's the ring fit?" One of the greatest posters of all time...

[The Wedge]

I coulda lived without hearing #6, Roy. :)

[The Wedge]

Does anyone have that picture of him coming back to OPACY and the guy holding a poster saying "Mussina, two years later, you're still a traitor! How's the ring fit?" One of the greatest posters of all time...

I cracked a few folks up in my section about 3 years ago when Mussina threw a wild pitch and I yelled "What happened, Mike, your World Series ring weighing your hand down...oh, whoops, you don't got one of those, guess you just threw it away."

[TakebackOPACY]

1. I share his birthday Dec 8.( Same as Sammy Davis Jr. Kim Bassinger, and Frank Sinatra.)
And David Carradine, and Jim Morrison, and Gregg Allman

2. He has never won 20 games in a season.
But he did win 16 in a year where the strike robbed him of as many as ten or eleven starts, and 19 (to lead the majors) in a year when a strike robbed him of four starts.

3.He has never been on a World Series Champion team.
But he has been to the post season 9 times and made 3 WS starts. In those games, he went 1-1 with a 3.00 ERA, allowed 18 h in 18 ip, walked 5 and struck out 23.

4. He earns 19 million dollars a season. According to the Baseball Almanac, that makes him the fourth highest paid player in the game.
5.His last 5 starts his earned runs are: 1-2-1-3- and 1.
The rumors of his demise had apparently been exaggerated.

6.Hes due to pitch a great game against us..its been a while
As O's fans, we have frustrating memories of Mussina coming out on the short end of a pitchers' duel. Here's to robbing Moose of a major ingredient that all starting pitchers need to ultimately be successful; run support.


7. Since joining the Yankees in 2001, the Yankees have not won the World Series, despite them winning 4 out of 5 years prior to him joining them.

9. The O's were 175-113 in Mussina's regular season appearances for them, and have not quite matched that success since his departure.

10. The O's are a respectable 10-11 against Mussina.

[Moose Milligan]

But he did win 16 in a year where the strike robbed him of as many as ten or eleven starts, and 19 (to lead the majors) in a year when a strike robbed him of four starts.

But he has been to the post season 9 times and made 3 WS starts. In those games, he went 1-1 with a 3.00 ERA, allowed 18 h in 18 ip, walked 5 and struck out 23.



<img src = "http://zerotosixty.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/medium_dr_evil_1.jpg">

Boo frickity hoo!

[joeride]

7. Since joining the Yankees in 2001, the Yankees have not won the World Series, despite them winning 4 out of 5 years prior to him joining them.

Curse of the MOOSE!

[Lucky Jim]

I still like Mussina. I'm not sure how he's a traitor...having signed once to a below-market contract.

He didn't perform to a HOF standard with the Yanks. But he was a real joy to watch with the O's. A real pleasure.

[Rex Thunder]

I coulda lived without hearing #6, Roy. :)

I personally think he's due to get rocked... with all the successive good starts- and it just might as well be us... AGAIN.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Curse of the MOOSE!

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1246676&postcount=12

[gusshane]

Does anyone have that picture of him coming back to OPACY and the guy holding a poster saying "Mussina, two years later, you're still a traitor! How's the ring fit?" One of the greatest posters of all time...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rajsuri/1680564173/


The guy who made the sign is a friend of a friend.He had a real 15 minutes with the publicity

[HeatherC12]

1. I share his birthday Dec 8.( Same as Sammy Davis Jr. Kim Bassinger, and Frank Sinatra.)

Um, I really hate to correct you Roy but Frank's birthday is actually December 12th. I know this very well because he actually shares that birthday with me! :D

[Tony-OH]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rajsuri/1680564173/


The guy who made the sign is a friend of a friend.He had a real 15 minutes with the publicity

That's awesome....

Here's another fact...

He once yelled across the locker room at John Parrish to sit down and eat and make the press wait after Parish made his major league debut. Despite being a good guy, Parrish did with the "vet" told him to do as reporters either missed deadline and or were unable to get Parrish's quotes after his great debut against the Yankees.

Here's an opinion:

Mu$$ina is a jerk and the sooner he retires without ring and a 20-win season, the more I'll believe in karma.

Like his own mother reportedly said, "I have two sons, one is a great human being and son, the other is a great pitcher."

[El Gordo]

That's awesome....

Here's another fact...

He once yelled across the locker room at John Parrish to sit down and eat and make the press wait after Parish made his major league debut. Despite being a good guy, Parrish did with the "vet" told him to do as reporters either missed deadline and or were unable to get Parrish's quotes after his great debut against the Yankees.

Here's an opinion:

Mu$$ina is a jerk and the sooner he retires without ring and a 20-win season, the more I'll believe in karma.

Like his own mother reportedly said, "I have two sons, one is a great human being and son, the other is a great pitcher."This isn't the first time you've done this. Using your position as someone with access to the clubhouse to diss on players who don't meet your personal subjctive standards of what constitutes acceptable behavior. Since we have no way of judging for ourselves, we are at a disadvantage. One man's jerk is another man's good fellow. I don't know you so I have no way of evaluating your judgement/predjudices but stuff like this doesn't reflect well on you IMHO.

[brvn52]

This isn't the first time you've done this. Using your position as someone with access to the clubhouse to diss on players who don't meet your personal subjctive standards of what constitutes acceptable behavior. Since we have no way of judging for ourselves, we are at a disadvantage. One man's jerk is another man's good fellow. I don't know you so I have no way of evaluating your judgement/predjudices but stuff like this doesn't reflect well on you IMHO.

What's wrong with what he said? He said the facts about the story and then gave his opinion about the situation and clearly differentiated between the two.

[Moose Milligan]

This isn't the first time you've done this. Using your position as someone with access to the clubhouse to diss on players who don't meet your personal subjctive standards of what constitutes acceptable behavior. Since we have no way of judging for ourselves, we are at a disadvantage. One man's jerk is another man's good fellow. I don't know you so I have no way of evaluating your judgement/predjudices but stuff like this doesn't reflect well on you IMHO.

There's nothing wrong with what Tony said.

How else are people supposed to relate their personal experiences and interactions with others?

[markpolis]

1. I share his birthday Dec 8.( Same as Sammy Davis Jr. Kim Bassinger, and Frank Sinatra.)
2. He has never won 20 games in a season
3.He has never been on a World Series Champion team
4. He earns 19 million dollars a season. According to the Baseball Almanac, that makes him the fourth highest paid player in the game
5.His last 5 starts his earned runs are: 1-2-1-3- and 1
6.Hes due to pitch a great game against us..its been a while

Damn, I knew I loved your stuff for a reason? I, too, have the same birthday. As does my brother. No, we are not twins. He is six years older than me. (did I mention he's turning 50 this year?)

BTW Roy, you forgot to mention Flip Wilson as sharing the same birthday.

[24fps]

I find it perplexing how a group of Orioles fans can spend so much time justifiably bashing team ownership (and I've done my share), yet turn around and vilify Mussina for recognizing those problems early and refusing to be victimized by them.

He gave a lot of good years to the Orioles for which we should have at least a small amount of gratitude. I still think his last contract with the O's showed some loyalty in what had already become a thoroughly crass free-agent world. Had he gone to the Yankees in '98 do you think he'd still have no rings and no 20-win seasons? Personally I think those problems would be behind him - the Yankees had really powerful teams 1998-2000.

Count me as one who also regrets he had to choose the Yanks when it came time to move on, but I'm having a hard time understanding the degree of anger he still triggers in some people.

[Miller192]

This isn't the first time you've done this. Using your position as someone with access to the clubhouse to diss on players who don't meet your personal subjctive standards of what constitutes acceptable behavior. Since we have no way of judging for ourselves, we are at a disadvantage. One man's jerk is another man's good fellow. I don't know you so I have no way of evaluating your judgement/predjudices but stuff like this doesn't reflect well on you IMHO.

Tony's account of this incident and his opinion were/are two different things.

You can draw your own conclusions with what he posted. Tony doesn't like him, maybe you do.

I don't see how this reflects poorly on Tony.

[markpolis]

This isn't the first time you've done this. Using your position as someone with access to the clubhouse to diss on players who don't meet your personal subjctive standards of what constitutes acceptable behavior. Since we have no way of judging for ourselves, we are at a disadvantage. One man's jerk is another man's good fellow. I don't know you so I have no way of evaluating your judgement/predjudices but stuff like this doesn't reflect well on you IMHO.

Gordo,

Wake up and smell the coffee. It's been WIDELY reported that Mussina is a jerk. Teammate and teammate have come out and bashed him about being self-serving and a bad teammate. Like Tony said, his own mother has issues about him.

Again, all of this stuff has been widely reported. It's not just Tony bashing Mussina. Please, do some research before bashing Tony.

[markpolis]

Um, I really hate to correct you Roy but Frank's birthday is actually December 12th. I know this very well because he actually shares that birthday with me! :D

I didn't think Sammy and Frank both shared MY birthday. ;)

[Lucky Jim]

Gordo,

Wake up and smell the coffee. It's been WIDELY reported that Mussina is a jerk. Teammate and teammate have come out and bashed him about being self-serving and a bad teammate. Like Tony said, his own mother has issues about him.

Again, all of this stuff has been widely reported. It's not just Tony bashing Mussina. Please, do some research before bashing Tony.

I find it hard to believe that his mother said that. And would like to know where it was reported. Smells apocryphal to me.

Mussina may be a jerk. Then again, Ted Williams was a jerk. And Joe Dimaggio. And numerous other great baseball players.

However, a relationship with the press doesn't define a person.

I never heard stories about him being a terrible person when he was in Baltimore, but that was a long time ago. Have any respected, long-time Orioles bashed him? If so, could someone link to it?

Otherwise we're just going on word-of-mouth of ex-Yankees. And who believes anything they say? ;)

[TakebackOPACY]

This isn't the first time you've done this. Using your position as someone with access to the clubhouse to diss on players who don't meet your personal subjctive standards of what constitutes acceptable behavior. Since we have no way of judging for ourselves, we are at a disadvantage. One man's jerk is another man's good fellow. I don't know you so I have no way of evaluating your judgement/predjudices but stuff like this doesn't reflect well on you IMHO.

With all due respect, he expressed his opinion. He provided anecdotal evidence that seems to support his opinion. He didn't force anyone to agree with his opinion.

I'm not at a disadvantage. I'm just as capable of forming my own opinion as I was before reading his post. I'm now fully aware that Tony thinks Mussina is a jerk. I'm fully aware that I don't know Tony. I'm fully aware that I don't know Mike Mussina. I'm fully aware that I've respected and have often agreed with the opinions that Tony has posted on this message board. I'm also fully aware that I have not agreed with every opinion of his.

[NICK]

Um, I really hate to correct you Roy but Frank's birthday is actually December 12th. I know this very well because he actually shares that birthday with me! :D


Heather, your birthday is Dec. 12th , me too, yea i knew about Frank on that day also, my Nana loved him and always got a kick out of the fact that we shared a birthday!

[OrioleWay27]

As it relates to Number 4, Numbers 2 and 3 make me think he wasn't so lowballed by the O's as some people want you to believe.

To be fair to Moose, he should have won 20 games in 1996.

If I remember correctly, he had a late 2 run lead against the Blue Jays at SkyDome in what would have been his 20th victory. I remember yelling at the TV to let Moose finish the game instead of handing in over to Armando Benitez, who promptly gave up a game-tying home run. I've held a grudge against Benitez ever since that day.

[RShack]

I find it perplexing how a group of Orioles fans can spend so much time justifiably bashing team ownership (and I've done my share), yet turn around and vilify Mussina for recognizing those problems early and refusing to be victimized by them.

He gave a lot of good years to the Orioles for which we should have at least a small amount of gratitude. I still think his last contract with the O's showed some loyalty in what had already become a thoroughly crass free-agent world. Had he gone to the Yankees in '98 do you think he'd still have no rings and no 20-win seasons? Personally I think those problems would be behind him - the Yankees had really powerful teams 1998-2000.

Count me as one who also regrets he had to choose the Yanks when it came time to move on, but I'm having a hard time understanding the degree of anger he still triggers in some people.


I find it hard to believe that his mother said that. And would like to know where it was reported. Smells apocryphal to me.

Mussina may be a jerk. Then again, Ted Williams was a jerk. And Joe Dimaggio. And numerous other great baseball players.

However, a relationship with the press doesn't define a person.

I never heard stories about him being a terrible person when he was in Baltimore, but that was a long time ago. Have any respected, long-time Orioles bashed him? If so, could someone link to it?
I agree with all of this. I have no inside news about Mussina, and most of us don't either. While somebody might have an inside view, I believe that most people who bash Moose don't. I'm surprised that so many folks don't appreciate him for what he did with the O's, and unfairly bash him mainly because of who he signed with after he got fed up with the FO/PA and left town. Based on what he did when he was here, I think he deserves a lot of respect. Too bad the O's didn't bother to treat him decently and keep him around.

[24fps]

With all due respect, he expressed his opinion. He provided anecdotal evidence that seems to support his opinion. He didn't force anyone to agree with his opinion.

I'm not at a disadvantage. I'm just as capable of forming my own opinion as I was before reading his post. I'm now fully aware that Tony thinks Mussina is a jerk. I'm fully aware that I don't know Tony. I'm fully aware that I don't know Mike Mussina. I'm fully aware that I've respected and have often agreed with the opinions that Tony has posted on this message board. I'm also fully aware that I have not agreed with every opinion of his.

Tony expressed three opinions to go along with one (eyewitnessed?) fact.

1. Mussina’s name is more appropriately spelled “Mu$$ina”.

2. He is a “jerk”.

3. It’s OK to publicly cite without annotation a condemnation of the man by his own mother.

El Gordo provided a line of reasoning that I don’t completely agree with, but chose to end his response with an opinion of his own: “...stuff like this doesn’t reflect well on you IMHO”.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but not all opinions are equally valid, nor are they equally fair-minded. I think El Gordo got his opinion right.

[weams]

Gordo,

Wake up and smell the coffee. It's been WIDELY reported that Mussina is a jerk. Teammate and teammate have come out and bashed him about being self-serving and a bad teammate. Like Tony said, his own mother has issues about him.

Again, all of this stuff has been widely reported. It's not just Tony bashing Mussina. Please, do some research before bashing Tony.

Usually, it's a good thing not to bash after the research either. I am had the opportunity to have a tiny bit of a window onto the reality of the baseball world occasionally, and access is a worthy point of reference.

[Ned from York]

Say Mussina gets 9-10 more wins this season to end the year around 265-266 for his career. Can he hang on another 2.5 years to get the remaining 34-35 wins for 300?

I say slightly greater than 50% chance if he sticks with the Yankees or other high offense team.

This is not a question about HOF status, so please do not bring that in to any reply.

[Gofannon]

I've always been frustrated by the Mussina traitor talk. I get that he went to the hated Yankees - I hate them as much as everyone else. Still, I can't imagine the decision he made was different from what many other players and people would do.

His choice in the fall of 2000:
Continue to stay in a workplace that has been spiraling downward for 4 years. Many of his veteran teammates were traded (Johnson, Baines, Surhoff, Bordick, Clark) for a collection of nobodies (Leon, Hubbard, lunar, Fordyce, Kinkade, Richard) and prospects who were either older than originally thought (Brea) or injured (Rivera). There was no bright future on the horizon. He had already taken less money to stay with the O's once and was called out by the players' union (I believe Glavine referred to it as a "garden variety contract"). He would have had to take less money again to stay here.

or

Work for an organization that had won 4 of the previous 5 World Series. Get paid more money to work for a successful organization.

He was not Cal Ripken, a local guy who had a true connection to the city. I think Ripken's willingness to stay here gave us all this idea that other players wouldn't or shouldn't leave here. I think when you realistically look at Mussina's options after 2000, his decision made sense.

In terms of personality, he wasn't Cal Ripken either, but compared to Erik Bedard, he looked like a talk-show host with the media. Phil Wood once described him as a guy who wanted everyone in the locker room to know he should be their lifeline in Who Wants to Be A Millionaire. I've heard him place blame on the teammates behind him in ways that most professional athletes don't. He certainly seems like a self-focused, reclusive person, and I know that doesn't play well with everyone.

People taunt him for failing to win a World Series, and I hope he never sniffs one in pinstripes. But often people suggest that this makes him soft or less than clutch.

The fact is that in 1997, he turned in one of the most clutch performances in O's postseason history (4 games, 29IP, 4 runs, 11 hits, 7 walks, 41 strikeouts). He gave up 1 run in 15 innings against the Indians and didn't win a game. If Benitez doesn't hang a slider to Marquis Grissom and the O's win the Series, Mussina is among the pantheon of Oriole heroes.

Sorry for the rambling, and I understand that a response of "Yankees Suck" will probably shout down everything I've said, but I just think the decision Mussina made 8 years ago was completely understandable.

[BMann]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rajsuri/1680564173/


The guy who made the sign is a friend of a friend. He had a real 15 minutes with the publicity.

One of my favorite signs ever! As a former English teacher, I especially like the correct use of the contraction "YOU'RE" and not "YOUR"...! :clap3: :D

[BMann]

The fact is that in 1997, he turned in one of the most clutch performances in O's postseason history (4 games, 29IP, 4 runs, 11 hits, 7 walks, 41 strikeouts). He gave up 1 run in 15 innings against the Indians and didn't win a game. If Benitez doesn't hang a slider to Marquis Grissom and the O's win the Series, Mussina is among the pantheon of Oriole heroes.


I realize it was Davey's call to remove Mussina after 8 dominating shutout innings in the 6th game against Cleveland, but it was just 6 years earlier that Jack Morris stayed in Game 7 of the WS for the Twinkies in a 0-0 game for 10 innings. There was no way in hell Morris was coming out of that game. I did question Mussina's heart after leaving that game, and still do. Yes, he deserved a better fate, but that was a circumstance where he should've demanded to stay in there, and I never heard any complaints from him about being removed. From what I recall, Davey basically said, "he was done" (meanwhile, MM had just struck out two batters in the 8th). If a guy can't at least go 9 innings in a win-or-go-home playoff game... well, I just think he sealed his reputation that day in my eyes. Awesome pitcher; not exactly one to lay it all on the line for his team.

[LookitsPuck]

This isn't the first time you've done this. Using your position as someone with access to the clubhouse to diss on players who don't meet your personal subjctive standards of what constitutes acceptable behavior. Since we have no way of judging for ourselves, we are at a disadvantage. One man's jerk is another man's good fellow. I don't know you so I have no way of evaluating your judgement/predjudices but stuff like this doesn't reflect well on you IMHO.

Why am I not surprised to see you playing Captain Save a Player?

[Lucky Jim]

I realize it was Davey's call to remove Mussina after 8 dominating shutout innings in the 6th game against Cleveland, but it was just 6 years earlier that Jack Morris stayed in Game 7 of the WS for the Twinkies in a 0-0 game for 10 innings. There was no way in hell Morris was coming out of that game. I did question Mussina's heart after leaving that game, and still do. Yes, he deserved a better fate, but that was a circumstance where he should've demanded to stay in there, and I never heard any complaints from him about being removed. From what I recall, Davey basically said, "he was done" (meanwhile, MM had just struck out two batters in the 8th). If a guy can't at least go 9 innings in a win-or-go-home playoff game... well, I just think he sealed his reputation that day in my eyes. Awesome pitcher; not exactly one to lay it all on the line for his team.

Right. Because, you know, Davey Johnson is known for respecting other people's opinions. Or, you know, making decisions based on the advice of his players.

[Gofannon]

If a guy can't at least go 9 innings in a win-or-go-home playoff game... well, I just think he sealed his reputation that day in my eyes. Awesome pitcher; not exactly one to lay it all on the line for his team.

This drives me crazy. Our choices on what to remember from game 6 are:
1) The question of whether the starting pitcher who went 8 innings, gave up 1 hit, walked 2 and struck out 10 had enough heart.

2) The fact that we left 14 men on base.

3) The fact that our all-star first baseman left 5 guys on in his first three at bats, failing to get the ball out of the infield.

I hope option 1 isn't foremost in the majority of people's minds.

So Mussina stays in for the 9th. The game went 11 innings! He wasn't going to pitch until the 11th no matter what.

To compare Mussina to Jack Morris doesn't make sense - they're different pitchers with different builds. They were also used differently.

In 1991, Morris threw more than 110 pitches in 17 out of 35 games. Mussina threw more than 110 9 out of 33 games. He had thrown 107 pitches going on three days' rest for the first time all year.

To look back on Mike Mussina's '97 playoff performance in a negative light - I just don't see it.

[BMann]

Right. Because, you know, Davey Johnson is known for respecting other people's opinions. Or, you know, making decisions based on the advice of his players.

Surely Davey at least asked Mussina if he could go another inning, or asked how he was feeling. I find it hard to fathom that there's a manager out there who would remove his starter after 8 innings of 1-hit, 10-K, work, in a do-or-die playoff game, without first inquiring how he's doing, especially the way Mussina finished the 8th.

I blame Davey enough for that loss - having Alomar, our best clutch hitter, BUNT with two on, none out in the 7th was unforgivable! :cussing:

[Lucky Jim]

Surely Davey at least asked Mussina if he could go another inning, or asked how he was feeling. I find it hard to fathom that there's a manager out there who would remove his starter after 8 innings of 1-hit, 10-K, work, in a do-or-die playoff game, without first inquiring how he's doing, especially the way Mussina finished the 8th.

I blame Davey enough for that loss - having Alomar, our best clutch hitter, BUNT with two on, none out in the 7th was unforgivable! :cussing:

Doesn't seem nearly so sure to me. It was a marvelous effort. Everything we could've asked for. I'll remember it as the second best Orioles' playoff pitching performance I ever saw, behind Bodicker's 1983 ALCS game.

[Odenton O]

If a guy can't at least go 9 innings in a win-or-go-home playoff game... well, I just think he sealed his reputation that day in my eyes. Awesome pitcher; not exactly one to lay it all on the line for his team.

Tell that to Grady Little. :p

[Boy Howdy]

For what it's worth, Mussina is a great friend of autograph collectors. One of baseball's easiest to obtain stars. That counts for something, maybe?

What I remember of his time in Baltimore is that he just couldn't hide the fact that he went to Stanford and (I think) graduated in three years. The guy's book smart brilliant, brainy, egghead, genius, however you want to say it.

Many sportwriters...hmmm, how shall we say...aren't. Therefore, Mussina could be abrasive to people asking questions that he didn't think were worthy of his time. On the other hand, ask a thought-provoking question, and there were few players as articulate as Moose to provide an insightful answer.

I never interviewed him though, so take this post with the proverbial grain of salt.

[i_miss_cal]

Want to know more about Moose, read Feinstein's new book about him and Glavine called "Living on the Black". I hated that he left us at the time but PA was the main reason why he left because he didn't want to give him a contract over three years, so how can you blame a guy for taking the deal he did with the Yankees. If you want to be bitter with someone, blame our lovely owner for Moose left.

Another Mussina fact is he is the last Yankee pitcher to win a World Series game

[glenn__davis]

I hated that he left us at the time but PA was the main reason why he left because he didn't want to give him a contract over three years


I'm pretty sure that's not right. Wasn't the final offer to Mussina something along the lines of 5/60?

[Echoes]

Mussina is still my favorite Orioles pitcher for my lifetime, and yes he was incredible for the O's during their last playoff run. Not to mention, the way he came in relief in game seven against the Red Sox in '03 and shut them down was pretty memorable as well, which allowed the Yanks a chance to come back and then was topped off by the Aaron Boone shot. I can't blame him for going to the Yanks, he was smart enough to see what direction the Orioles were going in, and correctly decided to bail out. Sure, he hasn't won a WS with the Yanks, but he's been a hell of a lot more successful and propped himself up to a borderline HOF career a lot more than he could have the last half decade or so with the Orioles, who are now rightfully seen as being one of the worst ran professional sports teams in the last decade.

If he's a jerk? So what, I don't know him personally and I could care less. A lot of the great sports figures in modern times have been known to be huge jerks, or aloof to the media and fans. I don't give a damn if he's a nice guy or not, just as long as he gets the job done and gives it everything he's got. I'll take a team of *****s who know how to get the job done anyday over a team full of "community leaders" who play terrible, uninspiring baseball.

[Gofannon]

I'm pretty sure that's not right. Wasn't the final offer to Mussina something along the lines of 5/60?

http://www.angelfire.com/sports/mikemussina/chronology.html

According to this link, we eventually got to 6/78, though the Yankees outbid us by over $10 million (6/88.5).

I seem to remember us being at 5/60 for a long time until we upped our offer. There was talk at the time of our protracted negotiations.

[24fps]

I'm pretty sure that's not right. Wasn't the final offer to Mussina something along the lines of 5/60?

It was 6/72 but PA withdrew it. Later 6/78 in response to Yanks improved offer. It was 5/60 at one point mid-way during discussions.

Angelos went on record as refusing to pay any pitcher $15 million per year. The Yankees got him for slightly under that.

http://www.angelfire.com/sports/mikemussina/chronology.html

[Gofannon]

It was 6/72 but PA withdrew it. Later 6/78 in response to Yanks improved offer. It was 5/60 at one point mid-way during discussions.

Angelos went on record as refusing to pay any pitcher $15 million per year. The Yankees got him for slightly under that.

http://www.angelfire.com/sports/mikemussina/chronology.html

Jinx! Buy me a coke!:D

[Lucky Jim]

http://www.angelfire.com/sports/mikemussina/chronology.html

According to this link, we eventually got to 6/78, though the Yankees outbid us by over $10 million (6/88.5).

I seem to remember us being at 5/60 for a long time until we upped our offer. There was talk at the time of our protracted negotiations.

I don't think the problem was the final amount, but rather how long it took to get there, and that, when we did, we were still well below the Yankees' offer.

We handled it badly, no doubt. Whereas the Yanks through money at him, personally courted him, etc.

I'm not casting aspersions - just saying, it was a definite example of mismanagement and poor negotiation strategy by us.

[24fps]

Jinx! Buy me a coke!:D

LOL. If your day has begun anything like mine, make it a beer and you're on.

[i_miss_cal]

I don't think the problem was the final amount, but rather how long it took to get there, and that, when we did, we were still well below the Yankees' offer.

We handled it badly, no doubt. Whereas the Yanks through money at him, personally courted him, etc.

I'm not casting aspersions - just saying, it was a definite example of mismanagement and poor negotiation strategy by us.

Exactly, the way it was handled just showed how bad things would get for years to come. He had already took one hometown discount by signing a three year deal for his previous contract.

[Mark Carver]

Surely Davey at least asked Mussina if he could go another inning, or asked how he was feeling. I find it hard to fathom that there's a manager out there who would remove his starter after 8 innings of 1-hit, 10-K, work, in a do-or-die playoff game, without first inquiring how he's doing, especially the way Mussina finished the 8th.

I blame Davey enough for that loss - having Alomar, our best clutch hitter, BUNT with two on, none out in the 7th was unforgivable! :cussing:

Your kidding right? The offense was 0-for-8 with RISP at that time (eventually went 0-for-12 with RISP) in that game and you blame Johnson for trying to generate runs, since the offense surely wasn't doing there job.

[Roy Firestone]

I didn't think Sammy and Frank both shared MY birthday. ;)
You are quite right! Frank's birthday is the 12th...but he tried to hang around me so much when I was younger we often celebrated the birthday on the same day...such a hanger on that Frank!

[HeatherC12]

You are quite right! Frank's birthday is the 12th...but he tried to hang around me so much when I was younger we often celebrated the birthday on the same day...such a hanger on that Frank!

Hey, I posted that info first and you quoted the other person! No respect for the women here, I see how you are, LOL ;) :wedge: :mwahaha:

[NewMarketSean]

How anyone can blame Mussina or Raffy for leaving the O's is beyond me.

[El Gordo]

Tony expressed three opinions to go along with one (eyewitnessed?) fact.

1. Mussina’s name is more appropriately spelled “Mu$$ina”.

2. He is a “jerk”.

3. It’s OK to publicly cite without annotation a condemnation of the man by his own mother.

El Gordo provided a line of reasoning that I don’t completely agree with, but chose to end his response with an opinion of his own: “...stuff like this doesn’t reflect well on you IMHO”.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but not all opinions are equally valid, nor are they equally fair-minded. I think El Gordo got his opinion right.
If Tony was another poster here I wouldn't have paid any attention to his remarks. But the last time I checked he owns the place and fancies himself to be a journalist. In this context I find "telling tails out of school" and failing to provide sources for questionable quotes a bit disappointing, if not irresponsible.

[Roy Firestone]

I made a couple of factual errors. Hes earning 19 million for the next year and a half..not just this season.
I am not a Mussina basher. He is not a "traitor". He is a businessman, and apparently a shrewd one.
Frank Sinatra's birthday is actually four days later than Moose(and me).
I think Mussina was a great Oriole and a very good pitcher for his career...but it is a fact that he never won 20 and he never won a ring.
He is also a great crossword puzzle player.
That is all

[TakebackOPACY]

Surely Davey at least asked Mussina if he could go another inning, or asked how he was feeling. I find it hard to fathom that there's a manager out there who would remove his starter after 8 innings of 1-hit, 10-K, work, in a do-or-die playoff game, without first inquiring how he's doing, especially the way Mussina finished the 8th.

I blame Davey enough for that loss - having Alomar, our best clutch hitter, BUNT with two on, none out in the 7th was unforgivable! :cussing:

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/w/will-bunts.html

Alomar might be the best bunter to ever wear an Orioles uniform. He had 126 bunt base hits in his career.

[El Gordo]

I made a couple of factual errors. Hes earning 19 million for the next year and a half..not just this season.
I am not a Mussina basher. He is not a "traitor". He is a businessman, and apparently a shrewd one.
Frank Sinatra's birthday is actually four days later than Moose(and me).
I think Mussina was a great Oriole and a very good pitcher for his career...but it is a fact that he never won 20 and he never won a ring.
He is also a great crossword puzzle player.
That is all
Just curious Roy. Have you ever found him to be more of a jerk than most of us?:laughlol:

[Bruce510]

I always liked Mussina and he is a really good pitcher.. The kind that we never should have let get away.

I guess that we will never know the whole story, but it was a shame when he was allowed to even make it to free agency... the O's F.O. should have locked him up to a fair deal.

If he had stayed, Mussina would be a great Oriole hero right now- one level below Weaver, Palmer, FRob, Brook R, Millar (haha).....

But instead, he is on a team that could care less about him and he has no ring to show for it.

O's rock him tonight-- O's 8 yankees 3

[TakebackOPACY]

Just curious Roy. Have you ever found him to be more of a jerk than most of us?:laughlol:

Roy's got no way of knowing how big a jerk most of us are. :wedge:

[mikezpen]

He mite be as sweet as pie, I wish him only the worst. He could have let the Orioles at least trade him in the 2000 season and get something for him. But he didn't care about us.Why s/anybody care about him?

[frankpembleton]

I still like Mussina. I'm not sure how he's a traitor...having signed once to a below-market contract.

He didn't perform to a HOF standard with the Yanks. But he was a real joy to watch with the O's. A real pleasure.

I agree. He was fantastic for us. He wanted to stay an Oriole, but Angelos let him walk.

[i_miss_cal]

but it is a fact that he never won 20 and he never won a ring.
That is all

He never won 20 games but he should have, he should have had it during the strike shortened season and then a year later in 96 the great Armando blew his 20th by giving up a homer in the 9th to Ed Sprague

[El Gordo]

Roy's got no way of knowing how big a jerk most of us are. :wedge:
What do you mean he reads the HO doesn't he.:wedge::wedge:

[i_miss_cal]

I'm pretty sure that's not right. Wasn't the final offer to Mussina something along the lines of 5/60?

I stand corrected, PA would not give more than a 3 year deal with his previous contract and that is why he signed the 3 year extension the first go around. According to Mussina, and again I am getting this from the book John Feinstein just wrote, Mussina's agent Arn Tellum went to PA and asked for 5/60, and PA said no, and he became a free agent and the rest is history.

[ColumbiaOriole]

This isn't the first time you've done this. Using your position as someone with access to the clubhouse to diss on players who don't meet your personal subjctive standards of what constitutes acceptable behavior. Since we have no way of judging for ourselves, we are at a disadvantage. One man's jerk is another man's good fellow. I don't know you so I have no way of evaluating your judgement/predjudices but stuff like this doesn't reflect well on you IMHO.

No one is saying you have to judge for yourself. He simply recounted his own experiences with Mussina. I don't think it reflects on Tony at all. He is simply sharing his perception of Mussina based on closer interaction with him than the overwhelming majority of us have had. It's your choice whether to believe it or not, not to play moral compass/judge and jury. There is no advantage or disadvantage...simply one who has greater access than the rest of us sharing a couple anecdotes. No need to overreact.

[Snuffles]

I have always been ashamed of the way Orioles fans treat Mike Mussina. He was our best pitcher for several years and we should applaud him for all of the good that he brought us. It isn't like the man didn't listen to what we had to say either, he at least gave it a run before leaving for New York. He has always been one of my favorite pitchers and I will always cherish him for the great memories he provided me when I have watched him pitch. One of my greatest memories is staying up a little extra late and fighting back some yawns to see him nearly no-hit the Cleveland Indians at OPACY before Vizquel singled in the 9th.

I will continue to clap for the man for being an upstanding human being and a man who's played the game clean and the right way for his entire career. The color of the uniform should not matter. It is simply a sign of immaturity if Orioles fans continue to treat him with disrespect.

Behave.

[i_miss_cal]

One of my greatest memories is staying up a little extra late and fighting back some yawns to see him nearly no-hit the Cleveland Indians at OPACY before Vizquel singled in the 9th.

I believe it was Alomar who broke up that no-no, actully he was perfect until Alomar got that hit

[El Gordo]

No one is saying you have to judge for yourself. He simply recounted his own experiences with Mussina. I don't think it reflects on Tony at all. He is simply sharing his perception of Mussina based on closer interaction with him than the overwhelming majority of us have had. It's your choice whether to believe it or not, not to play moral compass/judge and jury. There is no advantage or disadvantage...simply one who has greater access than the rest of us sharing a couple anecdotes. No need to overreact.
As I said earlier:
If Tony was another poster here I wouldn't have paid any attention to his remarks. But the last time I checked he owns the place and fancies himself to be a journalist. In this context I find "telling tails out of school" and failing to provide sources for questionable quotes a bit disappointing, if not irresponsible.

[Mark Carver]

I believe it was Alomar who broke up that no-no, actully he was perfect until Alomar got that hit

Indeed, it was Sandy Alomar...

May 30, 1997 Boxscore (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL199705300.shtml)

[PeteU]

To all the Mussina apologists here,

Hypothetically, had the Orioles matched or exceeded the Yankees offer and he had stayed an Oriole, most of you would probably be calling for the front office to unload him by now.

Mussina's always been an above average pitcher. But does an above average pitcher deserve the salary amount that Mussina gets? Hardly.

[wickedwitch]

To all the Mussina apologists here,

Hypothetically, had the Orioles matched or exceeded the Yankees offer and he had stayed an Oriole, most of you would probably be calling for the front office to unload him by now.

Mussina's always been an above average pitcher. But does an above average pitcher deserve the salary amount that Mussina gets? Hardly.

He's a borderline Hall of Famer. That's quite a bit better than simply above average to me.

[PeteU]

He's a borderline Hall of Famer. That's quite a bit better than simply above average to me.

Keyword there is borderline. As in, "It's a really slow year this year. I guess we'll have to go with Mussina so we can induct somebody this year."

Bonafide, surefire Hall of Fame pitchers deserve to have one of the highest salaries in the game. Borderline Hall of Famers do not.

[i_miss_cal]

He's a borderline Hall of Famer. That's quite a bit better than simply above average to me.

Agree. Look at his numbers compared to Palmers.

Mussina is 256-147 with a 3.71 ERA in 511 starts
Palmer was 268-152 with 2.86 ERA in 521 starts

Only knock against Mussina is that he never won 20 (thanks to the strike and Armando Benetiz) and never won a World Series.

Also not saying that Mussina is as good as Palmer, but if you look at the numbers, they are HOF worthy in my opinion.

[Boy Howdy]

Agree. Look at his numbers compared to Palmers.

Mussina is 256-147 with a 3.71 ERA in 511 starts
Palmer was 268-152 with 2.86 ERA in 521 starts

Only knock against Mussina is that he never won 20 (thanks to the strike and Armando Benetiz) and never won a World Series.

Also not saying that Mussina is as good as Palmer, but if you look at the numbers, they are HOF worthy in my opinion.

To me, there's only one stat you need to know about Mussina.

No eligible pitcher that's 100 games or more over .500 has ever failed to make the HOF. Mussina deserves to go in.

[24fps]

To all the Mussina apologists here,

Hypothetically, had the Orioles matched or exceeded the Yankees offer and he had stayed an Oriole, most of you would probably be calling for the front office to unload him by now.

Mussina's always been an above average pitcher. But does an above average pitcher deserve the salary amount that Mussina gets? Hardly.

I would be advocating trading him and I would be apologizing to Mike for suggesting - however backhandedly - that Trachsel was a better choice from the standpoint of both 5th starter and “veteran presence”.

While all of this is conjecture anyway, let me suggest that this season would have been the first time since 2000 where the idea of trading Moose would have had the possibility of gaining any traction whatsoever. Remember that up until the last half of last season, the Orioles were “competing”. We were only a player or two away from being “competitive”. Under those circumstances, when during the last 7-8 years has Oriole pitching been so abundant that Mussina would have been expendable while we were expected to be in the thick of the post season dogfight every year?

It took the hiring of MacPhail to blow all that silly nonsense out of the water, but our pitching during the last half of last year was so dreadful that he would have had to stay out of necessity.

So that brings us to this year where both our young pitching and Mussina have gotten off to good starts, so given that, I would feel that trading him would be best for our current team. And if there were no takers, I freely admit I wouldn’t be too upset.

[Tony-OH]

This isn't the first time you've done this. Using your position as someone with access to the clubhouse to diss on players who don't meet your personal subjctive standards of what constitutes acceptable behavior. Since we have no way of judging for ourselves, we are at a disadvantage. One man's jerk is another man's good fellow. I don't know you so I have no way of evaluating your judgement/predjudices but stuff like this doesn't reflect well on you IMHO.

Last I checked, I said it was an opinion. I can have opinion of a player I'd like, just like you. You can have any opinion of me as well.

[Tony-OH]

If Tony was another poster here I wouldn't have paid any attention to his remarks. But the last time I checked he owns the place and fancies himself to be a journalist. In this context I find "telling tails out of school" and failing to provide sources for questionable quotes a bit disappointing, if not irresponsible.

Holding ....back...... trying....not...to ..blast.....your....idiotic....comments....

Let's just say I respectfully disagree with you....

:bangwall:

[JohnnyK27]

I find it perplexing how a group of Orioles fans can spend so much time justifiably bashing team ownership (and I've done my share), yet turn around and vilify Mussina for recognizing those problems early and refusing to be victimized by them.

He gave a lot of good years to the Orioles for which we should have at least a small amount of gratitude. I still think his last contract with the O's showed some loyalty in what had already become a thoroughly crass free-agent world. Had he gone to the Yankees in '98 do you think he'd still have no rings and no 20-win seasons? Personally I think those problems would be behind him - the Yankees had really powerful teams 1998-2000.

Count me as one who also regrets he had to choose the Yanks when it came time to move on, but I'm having a hard time understanding the degree of anger he still triggers in some people.

What hurts about Mussina is the Yankee thing. If he had went to the Mets or Diamondbacks I dont believe you'd hear musch griping. Mussina turned his back on the people that matter most. Us the fans of the Baltimore Orioles.

I hope the curse continues for him ... As a Orioles fan I feel I have the right!

[Tony-OH]

What hurts about Mussina is the Yankee thing. If he had went to the Mets or Diamondbacks I dont believe you'd hear musch griping. Mussina turned his back on the people that matter most. Us the fans of the Baltimore Orioles.

I hope the curse continues for him ... As a Orioles fan I feel I have the right!

I still think the fact that no Oriole called him and asked him to stay, including Cal Ripken, spoke volumes about what his teammates thought.

2-0 O's in the first inning!! Go O's!!!!

[BaltimoreTerp]

Last I checked, I said it was an opinion. I can have opinion of a player I'd like, just like you. You can have any opinion of me as well.

Well to be fair, when people start getting a certain opinion about you, it seems as though they end up expressing it through other outside outlets, you know? :p

Complete coincidence, I'm sure :D

[Tony-OH]

I still think the fact that no Oriole called him and asked him to stay, including Cal Ripken, spoke volumes about what his teammates thought.

2-0 O's in the first inning!! Go O's!!!!

5-0... O's batting around... so much for a good game by Mu$$ina!!!! :D

[The Wedge]

I take a lot of satisifaction in him not making it out of the first. Due for a bad outing, indeed.

[itsernst]

Ha...0.2IP, 5H, 7R, 2W's...

Watching Moose leave...priceless.

[Rex Thunder]

A thing of beauty the shallacking Mussina just took. I knwo it was due to a Jeter error that the inning kept going- but I did think he was due! NOw before we count our chickens- lets hope ARod doesnt go off!
7-0 baby!

[BaltimoreTerp]

The Birds went Moose hunting and they bagged themselves a beauty!

[RichmondVA Orio]

5.His last 5 starts his earned runs are: 1-2-1-3- and 1
6.Hes due to pitch a great game against us..its been a while

Roy,

I forgive you.

The Orioles

[OttoNoveDieci]

OK Roy, who's the starter tomorrow for the Yanks. Do you have any fun facts about them...?!?

[bronzechamp]

Although, he is getting rocked. Here's another fun fact. He pledged Delta Tau Delta at Stanford.

[DuffMan]

Another fun fact about Mussina. Tonight was the shortest start of his career!! He's in the O's record books again:D

[weams]

He always, always, gave his runs up in bunches. And early in the game as well.

[Tony-OH]

Another fun fact about Mussina. Tonight was the shortest start of his career!! He's in the O's record books again:D

Now that is a fun fact!! :clap3:

[El Gordo]

Holding ....back...... trying....not...to ..blast.....your....idiotic....comments....

Let's just say I respectfully disagree with you....

:bangwall:
Don't hold back, just give me the source for Mussina's mother's comment and explain to me why Roch and other Sun writers don't have spicey clubhouse dirt they share with their readers.

[NuOriolesNation]

And here's the best fact of all. Moose ties his career low for shortest outing of his career (July of '95, against KC)

A big thank you from the Orioles.

[ColumbiaOriole]

Don't hold back, just give me the source for Mussina's mother's comment and explain to me why Roch and other Sun writers don't have spicey clubhouse dirt they share with their readers.

Why is he not allowed to have an opinion and share stories just as the rest of us are? You really don't understand the difference between sharing an anecdote in a thread about Mussina on a message board and a newspaper writer putting it in an article/blog that has nothing to do with Mussina? Really? You want him to give source for something he heard? Do you give sources anytime you share stuff you heard whether on the board or in real life? This faux moral indignation is silly.

[Gurgi]

I have always been ashamed of the way Orioles fans treat Mike Mussina. He was our best pitcher for several years and we should applaud him for all of the good that he brought us. It isn't like the man didn't listen to what we had to say either, he at least gave it a run before leaving for New York. He has always been one of my favorite pitchers and I will always cherish him for the great memories he provided me when I have watched him pitch. One of my greatest memories is staying up a little extra late and fighting back some yawns to see him nearly no-hit the Cleveland Indians at OPACY before Vizquel singled in the 9th.

I will continue to clap for the man for being an upstanding human being and a man who's played the game clean and the right way for his entire career. The color of the uniform should not matter. It is simply a sign of immaturity if Orioles fans continue to treat him with disrespect.

Behave.


Mussina had promised Angelos to give him a last chance on the contract. Instead he took the Yankee deal without ever letting us match it.

And he went to the MFY. Enough said.

[TakebackOPACY]

Mussina had promised Angelos to give him a last chance on the contract. Instead he took the Yankee deal without ever letting us match it.

This is a major distortion of the truth. Angelos publicly said he wouldn't go near 15m/yr, reported on Nov. 9th. (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/access/63433584.html?dids=63433584:63433584&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Nov+9%2C+2000&author=PETER+SCHMUCK&pub=The+Sun&desc=Angelos+sticks+to+fiscal+guns+O%27s+owner+say s+he+likes+Mussina%2C+but+not+at+%2415M+a+year%3B+ Finances+%60don%27t+make+sense%27%3B+He+rules+out+ Neagle%2C+C.+Johnson%2C+rips+Yanks)

Orioles owner Peter Angelos has drawn his economic line in the sand. He knows that the departure of popular pitching ace Mike Mussina would be a major blow to the franchise, but said yesterday that the long-term damage to the Orioles would be greater if the club committed $15 million a season to one player.
At that point, the O's had offered 6 yrs/$72m with $12m deferred with no interest.

The O's raised their offer to 6-yrs/$78m on Nov. 24th. O's up ante as Yankees chase ace N.Y. to offer Mussina $14.5 million; O's raise bid to $13M a year; Home team may keep him; Angelos' 6-year offer sat for weeks at $72M (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/access/64661879.html?dids=64661879:64661879&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Nov+25%2C+2000&author=Peter+Schmuck&pub=The+Sun&desc=O%27s+up+ante+as+Yankees+chase+ace+N.Y.+to+of fer+Mussina+%2414.5+million%3B+O%27s+raise+bid+to+ %2413M+a+year%3B+Home+team+may+keep+him%3B+Angelos %27+6-year+offer+sat+for+weeks+at+%2472M)

Orioles owner Peter Angelos said recently that the club would not match the estimated $15 million salary that [Mike Mussina] figured to get on the open market, but it appears that he is attempting to come close enough to the veteran right-hander's market value to convince him to stay in Baltimore. Yeah, right.:rolleyes:
At that point, Mussina was openly critical of the O's offer and of their negotiating tactics. He was getting calls daily from Yankees players and coaches. He only heard from one Oriole when he saw Brady at a Ravens game.
Mussina obliquely criticized the Orioles' negotiating strategy last week by expressing disappointment over a lack of communication since season's end. Numerous players from the Yankees, Red Sox and Mets have phoned Mussina, attesting not only to the quality of their clubhouses but the quality of life in their cities.

Of his Orioles teammates, Mussina has spoken only with veteran outfielder Brady Anderson at a Nov. 19 Ravens game. He also chatted with free-agent shortstop Mike Bordick, who played behind him for 3 1/ 2 seasons at Camden Yards. However, Mussina phoned Bordick for input about his experiences with the Mets, who traded for him July 28. Nov 28, 2000 (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/access/64760411.html?dids=64760411:64760411&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Nov+28%2C+2000&author=Joe+Strauss&pub=The+Sun&desc=Mussina+narrows+choices+to+four+Yanks%3A+%248 7M%2C+6+years%3B+decision+this+week)

On Nov. 29th (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/access/64827473.html?dids=64827473:64827473&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Nov+29%2C+2000&author=Joe+Strauss&pub=The+Sun&desc=New+York+tour+appears+to+map+Mussina%27s+plan s+O%27s+free+agent+could+join+Yanks+tomorrow%3B+An gelos+awaits+his+call), the day before he signed with the Yankees, it was reported that the O's wouldn't be given the opportunity to match an offer they had already said they wouldn't match.
Angelos may have had his last chance during a conversation with Tellem last week. According to a source familiar with the negotiations, Tellum apprised Angelos of the parameters of the Yankees' offer and was told that there would be no further adjustment to the Orioles' proposal. Tellem said Monday night that the Orioles no longer had the right of last refusal.

And the next day (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/access/64857748.html?dids=64857748:64857748&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Dec+1%2C+2000&author=Joe+Strauss&pub=The+Sun&desc=Yankees+get+Mussina%3A+6+years%2C+%2488.5+mil lion+Star+pitcher+says+Orioles+didn%27t+try+hard+t o+keep+him), Mussina signed for a contract that the O's never came close to matching.

[Mike Mussina]'s contract contains no deferred money and includes a $12 million signing bonus - representing nearly 60 percent of his just- expired three-year, $20.45 million deal with the Orioles. The bonus will be paid in $2 million installments over the life of the contract. Mussina will be paid $8 million in 2001, $9 million in 2002, $10 million in 2003, $14 million in 2004 and $17 million each in 2005 and 2006.

Orioles majority owner Peter Angelos called the size of the contract prohibitive. Mussina said money was not the determinant, citing what looks to be the Orioles' protracted rebuilding period and the Yankees' zeal to improve a three-time world champion.
Cocerning, the O's "protracted rebuilding period," Mussina had been openly disappointed during the season (July) when the O's traded BJ Surhoff and Will Clark. His quotes at that time made it seem like those trades convinced him to go to free agency.

[Frobby]

All you really need to know is this: Mussina asked for 5 years, $62.5 mm in March 2000. That was a reasonable, market-price demand, and was more than fair. Angelos refused to meet it, and so Mussina signed with the Yankees after the season for 6 years, $88.5 mm. Angelos blew it, just as he has blown it with a number of other players who were performing well for his organization.

As to whether Mussina is a nice guy who is a bit of a loner, or a complete jerk, there's a split of opinion and I don't pretend to have one since I've never met the guy. But I do know that his decision to leave the Orioles was fully justified based on Angelos's very poor negotiating approach. I would have done the same thing if I were in his shoes.

[TakebackOPACY]

All you really need to know is this: Mussina asked for 5 years, $62.5 mm in March 2000. That was a reasonable, market-price demand, and was more than fair. Angelos refused to meet it, and so Mussina signed with the Yankees after the season for 6 years, $88.5 mm. Angelos blew it, just as he has blown it with a number of other players who were performing well for his organization.
Angelos offered 5 yrs/$60m in March 2000. Negotiations stalled in early April reportedly because Angelos was still balking at a sixth year. This was still market value or lower when you consider Kevin Brown's contract (7 yrs/$105m to a 33-yr old pitcher) from two years earlier (which, to be fair, was a bad contract).


As to whether Mussina is a nice guy who is a bit of a loner, or a complete jerk, there's a split of opinion and I don't pretend to have one since I've never met the guy. But I do know that his decision to leave the Orioles was fully justified based on Angelos's very poor negotiating approach. I would have done the same thing if I were in his shoes.

Well said, concerning the 'jerk' stuff. And I agree 100% concerning Angelos.

[RShack]

Kudos to TakebackOPACY and to Frobby for putting this in appropriate perspective.

Regardless of one's opinion about Mussina's personality traits, the O's blew it. Doesn't matter if Mussina is a nice person or not. I don't know the guy's nature, but I am 100% sure he was an excellent pitcher who showed up and earned his keep. He did the sensible thing by leaving after he got treated like dirt. Nothing wrong with that. Whether or not he's a jerk or not has zero bearing on who's fault it is that he decided to leave. He was asking the O's for something fair, the O's refused to do something that was market-fair, and he got a much better offer elsewhere. There is a bad guy in this story, but it ain't Mussina. He tried to stay.

ps: The same folks who ran Mussina out of town also alienated Brooks Robinson for cryin' out loud.

[Tony-OH]

Why is he not allowed to have an opinion and share stories just as the rest of us are? You really don't understand the difference between sharing an anecdote in a thread about Mussina on a message board and a newspaper writer putting it in an article/blog that has nothing to do with Mussina? Really? You want him to give source for something he heard? Do you give sources anytime you share stuff you heard whether on the board or in real life? This faux moral indignation is silly.

Thanks but don't bother. Simple minds are not easily changed. :rolleyes:

[The Wedge]

Thanks but don't bother. Simple minds are not easily changed. :rolleyes:

That's not really true. Simple Minds have changed a great deal over the years. They're not simply the "Don't You Forget About Me" band anymore, they've really expanded their horizons.