Engineering Student...

[Dr. FLK]

So, we hired an engineering student who I am supposed to be mentoring this summer. Easy enough, right? Well, now he's pretty sure he knows everything...and I know nothing. I guess his 0 years of experience greatly outweigh my 10 years and PhD. He argued with me over the speed of light the other day...that's right...the speed of light. He didn't "trust" my calculation. NEWSFLASH: I didn't calculate the speed of light. I just know it. It's a fact. It's not debatable.

He's been assembling some components, and he argues with me over how they work and why they work. I decided not to tell him that everything he's assembling was designed by ME. It's more fun to watch him look silly when other people correct him and say things like "You know, FLK knows how that works because it's 100% his design...and we already built others like it that work like he says they do."

How do I mentor someone that I don't want to help me? How do I mentor someone that's pretty sure he's the smartest man alive? How do I handle this situation without the use of a Louisville Slugger?

[Maverick2143]

So, we hired an engineering student who I am supposed to be mentoring this summer. Easy enough, right? Well, now he's pretty sure he knows everything...and I know nothing. I guess his 0 years of experience greatly outweigh my 10 years and PhD. He argued with me over the speed of light the other day...that's right...the speed of light. He didn't "trust" my calculation. NEWSFLASH: I didn't calculate the speed of light. I just know it. It's a fact. It's not debatable.

He's been assembling some components, and he argues with me over how they work and why they work. I decided not to tell him that everything he's assembling was designed by ME. It's more fun to watch him look silly when other people correct him and say things like "You know, FLK knows how that works because it's 100% his design...and we already built others like it that work like he says they do."

How do I mentor someone that I don't want to help me? How do I mentor someone that's pretty sure he's the smartest man alive? How do I handle this situation without the use of a Louisville Slugger?

Use an Easton :noidea:

I would just continue to let him make a jackass out of himself. If the kid isn't smart enough to learn from those who have been there and done that, its on him.

[ChrisP]

He sounds like management material.

[RShack]

So, we hired an engineering student who I am supposed to be mentoring this summer. Easy enough, right? Well, now he's pretty sure he knows everything...and I know nothing. I guess his 0 years of experience greatly outweigh my 10 years and PhD. He argued with me over the speed of light the other day...that's right...the speed of light. He didn't "trust" my calculation. NEWSFLASH: I didn't calculate the speed of light. I just know it. It's a fact. It's not debatable.

He's been assembling some components, and he argues with me over how they work and why they work. I decided not to tell him that everything he's assembling was designed by ME. It's more fun to watch him look silly when other people correct him and say things like "You know, FLK knows how that works because it's 100% his design...and we already built others like it that work like he says they do."

How do I mentor someone that I don't want to help me? How do I mentor someone that's pretty sure he's the smartest man alive? How do I handle this situation without the use of a Louisville Slugger?
Well, you could explain to him that part of his job description during the mentoring period is that he's supposed to learn how to not be an a-hole, which is a common problem among arrogant know-it-all's who've never been outside of school... then, you could give him a progress report...

[glenn__davis]

On a somewhat unrelated note, my former employer hired a fresh college grad with a degree in mechanical engineering who, I kid you not, did not know what a flathead screwdriver was.

I wouldn't sweat it too much, FLK. Eventually he'll learn, probably mostly through your coworkers, that you are the man.

[Dipper9]

On a somewhat unrelated note, my former employer hired a fresh college grad with a degree in mechanical engineering who, I kid you not, did not know what a flathead screwdriver was.

I wouldn't sweat it too much, FLK. Eventually he'll learn, probably mostly through your coworkers, that you are the man.

And by that time summer will be over and you can help kick his ass out the door! :beerchug1:

[Dr. FLK]

And by that time summer will be over and you can help kick his ass out the door! :beerchug1:

It's not that easy...he'll be back after the semester...and then after the next semester...and...

[blueberryale77]

It's not that easy...he'll be back after the semester...and then after the next semester...and...

What the heck kind of internship is that? Can't you fire him for incompetence and/or insubordination? Or is he the boss's nephew or something?

[blueberryale77]

Use an Easton :noidea:

I would just continue to let him make a jackass out of himself. If the kid isn't smart enough to learn from those who have been there and done that, its on him.

I'd go with a Max Bat... their maple kicks "ash"... and it'll break and get splinters all over his butt.

[TGO]

What the heck kind of internship is that? Can't you fire him for incompetence and/or insubordination? Or is he the boss's nephew or something?

Could be that it's hard to find American engineers.

But I had the same question so I'm curious what FLK says.

[Dipper9]

I'd go with a Max Bat... their maple kicks "ash"... and it'll break and get splinters all over his butt.

Well...he sounds like a horses butt, so I'd just take him out back and do this...

:deadhorse:

[ChrisP]

I'm telling you guys....curent management will love a guy like this. He already rubs people the wrong way, bad personnel skills, doesn't play well with others, knows everything...He probably knows someone higher in the company than FLK.

[ScottieBaseball]

So, we hired an engineering student who I am supposed to be mentoring this summer. Easy enough, right? Well, now he's pretty sure he knows everything...and I know nothing. I guess his 0 years of experience greatly outweigh my 10 years and PhD. He argued with me over the speed of light the other day...that's right...the speed of light. He didn't "trust" my calculation. NEWSFLASH: I didn't calculate the speed of light. I just know it. It's a fact. It's not debatable.

He's been assembling some components, and he argues with me over how they work and why they work. I decided not to tell him that everything he's assembling was designed by ME. It's more fun to watch him look silly when other people correct him and say things like "You know, FLK knows how that works because it's 100% his design...and we already built others like it that work like he says they do."

How do I mentor someone that I don't want to help me? How do I mentor someone that's pretty sure he's the smartest man alive? How do I handle this situation without the use of a Louisville Slugger?

Pssh...but my textbook says...

[TakebackOPACY]

Shhh. What I want you to do now is take out a notebook. Shhhh! I didn't ask you to speak. I asked you to take out a notebook. I have a homework assignment for you.

Write down, "S-p-e-e-d---o-f---l-i-g-h-t". Good. Now. When you get home, I want you to google "Speed of light"... or calculate it... or do whatever you want to do with it. Then, tomorrow, tell me what you found. But for now, I want you to stop talking about what you think you know about the speed of light, and plug in the calculation that I gave you. I promise you that if you follow my directions, you won't blow up the lab.

I think this kid needs you to be blunt, and he won't be too fragile to handle it. The plus side of arguing with you may be that he wants to understand it and wants to know why he's wrong if he's wrong. It's not your job to spoonfeed him, though. Point out when he can go do the work on his own time to answer his questions for himself. Then hold him accountable.

He'll hate you now and thank you later. Maybe you can choose your spots to spoonfeed him a little, and maybe even just give him time to figure it out for himself 'on the clock' sometimes (and then explain why he won't always get that time during his workday). Also, when he gives you the opportunity, be equally blunt with positive feedback.

In other words, once you've made one effort to explain it to him, the second effort goes like this: "You're incorrect, I assure you. After lunch, I'll give you half an hour to sit over there and figure out why you're incorrect. You can come and ask me questions, and I'll either answer them or point you in the right direction to find the answer. But don't come back and argue with me about how you're correct. Right now, we're not going to take up any more time discussing this."

Again, be equally bluntly positive when he comes back having figured it out... even if it's taken him several tries and he tested your patience by arguing several more times... "Excellent. Nice work. You won't have to do that work again because it's already been done for you, nor will you be given the time to do so. That's the case with a lot of things around here. It's going to be up to you to do what you have to do to be comfortable with that."

[Pushmonkey]

He sounds like management material.

He sounds like my boss.

[Dr. FLK]

Could be that it's hard to find American engineers.

But I had the same question so I'm curious what FLK says.

Your first line isn't all that far off.

It comes down to the kid really is pretty smart. He just doesn't know a thing about the stuff I work on. That wouldn't bother me if he'd let me teach him, because I think the aptitude is there. It's just up to him to be "less annoying" to the point where I don't mind teaching him.

I was a "little" blunt with him today, and after lunch went much better than before lunch...when I was looking for a bat! Baby steps...

[orayole]

As someone that's been on both sides of the coin there ( :p , I'm hard headed and I've trained hard headed people) he just needs time to figure it out himself. The only thing you can really do is be patient. It's going to kill you or at least you're really going to want to kill him but you just got to let him figure it out. He's someone that needs lots of hands on experience before he gets it. Though the part about not trusting your calculation on the speed of light....maybe he won't ever get it.

[TyCobb]

I am with TakeBackOPACY. Tell him that he is getting annoying. Tell him you want to help him, but he has to change his attitude fast. As a "kid" myself, I think you should really tell him how you feel ASAP. That way he has the change to adjust. A lot of times us "kids" don't know how to deal with a new environment.

For the speed of light, did he question 3 x 10^8m/s?

[Dr. FLK]

I am with TakeBackOPACY. Tell him that he is getting annoying. Tell him you want to help him, but he has to change his attitude fast. As a "kid" myself, I think you should really tell him how you feel ASAP. That way he has the change to adjust. A lot of times us "kids" don't know how to deal with a new environment.

For the speed of light, did he question 3 x 10^8m/s?

He questioned my conversion to "roughly" 1ft/ns...which isn't all that hard to figure out. He wrote out a bunch of conversions on my board...and ended up at the wrong answer.

As for the "kid" thing...I'm pretty much a "kid" still myself (only 27). I think that he sees himself more as my "peer" than IMO he should. It's difficult to mentor someone who's only a few years younger than you in age, but well behind you in experience. I started working at my current job when I was 19, so I have a lot more experience than I think he would guess.

[TyCobb]

He questioned my conversion to "roughly" 1ft/ns...which isn't all that hard to figure out. He wrote out a bunch of conversions on my board...and ended up at the wrong answer.

As for the "kid" thing...I'm pretty much a "kid" still myself (only 27). I think that he sees himself more as my "peer" than IMO he should. It's difficult to mentor someone who's only a few years younger than you in age, but well behind you in experience. I started working at my current job when I was 19, so I have a lot more experience than I think he would guess.

That is pretty funny. It isn't hard to go to 30 cm / nanosecond.

Being a "kid" is probably what is causing the doubt. Just tell the kid you don't like his attitude and it must change.

[Bosibus]

On a somewhat unrelated note, my former employer hired a fresh college grad with a degree in mechanical engineering who, I kid you not, did not know what a flathead screwdriver was.

Is that the plus or the minus? :D

[square634]

He questioned my conversion to "roughly" 1ft/ns...which isn't all that hard to figure out. He wrote out a bunch of conversions on my board...and ended up at the wrong answer.

As for the "kid" thing...I'm pretty much a "kid" still myself (only 27). I think that he sees himself more as my "peer" than IMO he should. It's difficult to mentor someone who's only a few years younger than you in age, but well behind you in experience. I started working at my current job when I was 19, so I have a lot more experience than I think he would guess.

How old is the student - high school, college, or out of college? Did you get to read a resume and interview him, or was he forced on you? Personally, even though I have basically been a student my entire life so far, I think it is VERY difficult to be a good mentor. In most settings it is extremely difficult to give a student a task that is appropriate for his/her skill level and actually helpful, without being menial work like filing papers. If he doesn't have the common sense to realize that, then he doesn't deserve the experience in the first place.