Olney suggests Sherill to the Sawx???

[JohnnyK27]

The Red Sox, Olney says, would probably love to land Sherrill and have prospects to offer, but isn't sure the O's would trade with a division rival.


I would hope Mcphail could get it done for the right package. I dont think the philosophy of not dealing in the division still hold true... Eh Right???

Would might it take for a Sherrill to the Red Sox deal to work. :scratchchinhmm:

[Moose Milligan]

I'll take Ellsbury back.

:)

[Big Mac]

The Red Sox, Olney says, would probably love to land Sherrill and have prospects to offer, but isn't sure the O's would trade with a division rival.


I would hope Mcphail could get it done for the right package. I dont think the philosophy of not dealing in the division still hold true... Eh Right???

Would might it take for a Sherrill to the Red Sox deal to work. :scratchchinhmm:

Lowrie would be a good place to start.

[shorty122dude]

You can't trade sherrill to someone in our division, that doesnt do us any good. We'd run into him in the ninth one day and he'd shut us down.

[cbm5042]

Lowrie, Bowden, and Carter. I'd do that pretty quick...hehe

[Big Mac]

You can't trade sherrill to someone in our division, that doesnt do us any good. We'd run into him in the ninth one day and he'd shut us down.

If the package coming back makes us a better team in the future, then we can deal Sherril to whatever team we want.

[SevisonJN]

The Red Sox, Olney says, would probably love to land Sherrill and have prospects to offer, but isn't sure the O's would trade with a division rival.


I would hope Mcphail could get it done for the right package. I dont think the philosophy of not dealing in the division still hold true... Eh Right???

Would might it take for a Sherrill to the Red Sox deal to work. :scratchchinhmm:

How about Lowrie, Oscar Tejada, and Aaron Bates?

[backwardsk]

Ellsbury, Lester, and Lowrie. :D

[oriofan8]

Why would the Red Sox want Sherrill ?? Obviously not to replace Papelbon...
Set up guy?? LOOGY??

[JTrea81]

Lowrie and Bowden/Anderson and you probably have to swallow hard and make that trade. Anderson and Lowrie would fill holes and if Bowden was acquired, we'd have the three of the best young pitching prospects in the majors.

[backwardsk]

Why would the Red Sox want Sherrill ?? Obviously not to replace Papelbon...
Set up guy?? LOOGY??

They'd make their ballgames a seven inning game. Sherrill setting up Papelbon would be devestating.

Think Rivera-Wetland and Rodriguez-Percival.

[JTrea81]

They'd make their ballgames a seven inning game. Sherrill setting up Papelbon would be devistating.

Think Rivera-Wetland and Rodriguez-Percival.

Which is why you have to ask for the moon and the stars to move Sherrill to the Red Sox. God the concept of that just makes me ill...

Can you imagine Red Sux Nation adopting the Flat Breezy? :puke::puke::puke:

[cbm5042]

I'd much rather have Bowden than Anderson. I'd rather have Chris Carter than Anderson or Bates too. If we could somehow get Lowrie and Bowden then you have to seriously consider it. Other teams maybe something like:

BOS - Lowrie, Bowden
MIL - Gamel, Gillespie
LAD - LaRoche, McDonald, DeJesus
TB - Brignac, Hellickson

That would be great and if an offer like those comes along you really have to consider it.

[JohnnyK27]

You can't trade sherrill to someone in our division, that doesnt do us any good. We'd run into him in the ninth one day and he'd shut us down.


Might that also be the case for the guys the Red Sox trade us? The Orioles are so far from contending right now that I wouldn't be concerned about where we trade our available players. Not picking on you but this same thought process by Uncle Pete has crippled the Orioles for a long time. I honestly believe whomever offers the best package is the team we ought to deal with regardless of the division.

[Boston Dave]

Lowrie and Ellsbury for Sherrill, Reimold, and a lesser prospect.
Other than that, not interested. We can do better elsewhere.

[furryburres]

You can't trade sherrill to someone in our division, that doesnt do us any good. We'd run into him in the ninth one day and he'd shut us down.

That's too close-minded. Our division is one of the best divisions prospect-wise, and preventing us to ever trade there is very stupid. Besides, Sherrill wouldn't close against us.

[shorty122dude]

I still think we should hold on to Sherrill. He's a solid arm in our bullpen and someone I could see in an O's uniform for a few more years.

Unless Epstein gives Andy a deal that makes him drool, keep him.

[backwardsk]

Which is why you have to ask for the moon and the stars to move Sherrill to the Red Sox. God the concept of that just makes me ill...

Yep, see my post above. (Obviously they wouldn't do it)

[cbm5042]

I'm with Ravenbird, Lowrie isn't enough but add in somebody like Bowden and both teams are winners - the Sox in the short run and the O's in the long run.

Tillman, Bowden, Arrieta, Matusz, Bergsen, Patton, Hernandez - are you kidding me?

[oriofan8]

They'd make their ballgames a seven inning game. Sherrill setting up Papelbon would be devistating.

Think Rivera-Wetland and Rodriguez-Percival.

Kinda what I was thinking....:scratchchinhmm:

[PoorMike]

2 negatives: we would lose Sherrill AND we wouldn't be able to keep raping Okijima in the 7th and 8th. :D

However, if they give us a good package, bon voyage Breezy. :D

[gallden]

So what?

Lowrie could be our SS for the next 8 years.....He'd have a bigger impact both for us and against the Sox than Sherrill would with them and against us.

Do the Red Sox have anyone else in their system that they see as a SS? If not don't think they would trade Lowrie.

[cbm5042]

I'm drooling at the thought of Lowrie and Bowden and I'd have to do that. Plus, it gives me a reason to watch the playoffs because I love Sherrill as a person and a player.

Side Note - is it possible to write a stipulation in a trade contract that a certain player cannot play against a certain team? Is that even possible?

[The Wedge]

I don't care who we trade him to, if we trade him, as long as we get nice value in return.

[PoorMike]

Lowrie and Ellsbury for Sherrill, Reimold, and a lesser prospect.
Other than that, not interested. We can do better elsewhere.

Why do we want Ellsbury? Why would they trade their starting CF?

[JTrea81]

I'd much rather have Bowden than Anderson. I'd rather have Chris Carter than Anderson or Bates too. If we could somehow get Lowrie and Bowden then you have to seriously consider it. Other teams maybe something like:

BOS - Lowrie, Bowden
MIL - Gamel, Gillespie
LAD - LaRoche, McDonald, DeJesus
TB - Brignac, Hellickson

That would be great and if an offer like those comes along you really have to consider it.

Anderson is one of the best 1st base prospects in the game. He's only 20 and playing in Portland (AA)

[cbm5042]

I'd much rather have a future TOR starter than an average 1B. But I'm almost positive the O's won't trade for a 1B they are signing him this off season.

[cbm5042]

Would you do Lowrie and Bowden - seems like an Andy Mac kind of move. A young SS who can hopefully hold down the fort and a good young pitcher to add to the stable.

[JTrea81]

Would you do Lowrie and Bowden - seems like an Andy Mac kind of move. A young SS who can hopefully hold down the fort and a good young pitcher to add to the stable.

Man like I said I'd swallow hard, but ultimately I'd pull the trigger because Lowrie takes away their MI depth and Bowden takes away from their SP depth.

[brvn52]

You can't trade sherrill to someone in our division, that doesnt do us any good. We'd run into him in the ninth one day and he'd shut us down.

Unless Lowrie were to hit a home run in the 9th. ;)

[Boston Dave]

Why do we want Ellsbury? Why would they trade their starting CF?

Ellsbury is a great talent. If they want to run Crisp back out there, so be it- I'll take him. But fact is Lowrie is not as great as other options we might be able to aquire..if Lowrie is "the deal," fine, but it takes Ellsbury in it too or I look elsewhere. In fact, it might work for both teams. Reimold might mash in Fenway if given a chance, and I would give them another additional prospect, too.

Again, we can do better with the the Dodgers, etc.

[cbm5042]

When is Bowden slated to make the majors is he like Masterson and right on the cusp and we could see him sometime next season or does he need more time? Anybody know. I know he is fairly close he is already in AA. Lowrie could step in right away and solve a lot of the O's problems with the middle infield. Roberts and Lowrie could be a deadly combo both defensively and offensively.

[brvn52]

Ellsbury is a great talent. If they want to run Crisp back out there, so be it- I'll take him. But fact is Lowrie is not as great as other options we might be able to aquire..if Lowrie is "the deal," fine, but it takes Ellsbury in it too or I look elsewhere. In fact, it might work for both teams. Reimold might mash in Fenway if given a chance, and I would give them another additional prospect, too.

Again, we can do better with the the Dodgers, etc.

Would you do Sherrill and Reimold for Ellsbury?

I certainly would.

[Malike]

The only way we'd get Lowrie and Bowden is if Theo loses his mind. I do think it would be on par with what Andy MacPhail would want from them though, hence a deal with the Sox not getting done.

[shorty122dude]

You can't deal Sherrill. Who would be our closer?

Sarfate? Gave up three runs today without recording an out.
Bradford? He's not really a closer, more of a set up.
You could throw Johnson, maybe Cormier in there but they aren't like Sherrill.

Fact is, Sherrill increases our chances to win ball games THIS year.

Yes, I know we need to think about the future, a few years down the road, but heck i just watched our team battle back and win from being down 6 runs before they even swung the bat. The orioles are just two games away from .500 and i'm sick and tired of seeing the O's end with a losing record for 10 years running now. They have that attitude of never giving up that I haven't seen in quite awhile.

Don't let sherrill go.

[JohnnyK27]

Ellsbury is a great talent. If they want to run Crisp back out there, so be it- I'll take him. But fact is Lowrie is not as great as other options we might be able to aquire..if Lowrie is "the deal," fine, but it takes Ellsbury in it too or I look elsewhere. In fact, it might work for both teams. Reimold might mash in Fenway if given a chance, and I would give them another additional prospect, too.

Again, we can do better with the the Dodgers, etc.

Who knows if the Dodgers will be able to get anything done with the Dodgers owner treating Colletti like Angelos has treated many a GM the last 10 years.

[The Wedge]

You can't deal Sherrill. Who would be our closer?

Sarfate? Gave up three runs today without recording an out.
Bradford? He's not really a closer, more of a set up.
You could throw Johnson, maybe Cormier in there but they aren't like Sherrill.

Fact is, Sherrill increases our chances to win ball games THIS year.

Yes, I know we need to think about the future, a few years down the road, but heck i just watched our team battle back and win from being down 6 runs before they even swung the bat. The orioles are just two games away from .500 and i'm sick and tired of seeing the O's end with a losing record for 10 years running now. They have that attitude of never giving up that I haven't seen in quite awhile.

Don't let sherrill go.

Fact is, it's not about this year.

[Boston Dave]

Why Ellsbury other than his speed? OF shouldn't really be our top worry right now.

Whoever we get in a trade + Scott/Reimold is probably better than Ellsbury + prospects from dealing Scott/Reimold.

I would love to see an OF of Jones, Ellsbury, and Markakis- that could be very special for years.

But right- no way Sox trade JE, anyway. And like others have said, (I've seen Lowrie) and am not all that impressed. Lot of talent, but we could do better.

[cbm5042]

Sherrill and Reimold for Ellsbury is an awful trade for the Orioles and nobody in their right mind would make that deal. Sherrill for Ellsbury alone is a terrible trade. We don't need to focus on the outfield I think we're doing pretty well with Scott, Jones, and Markakis. We need to lock down that middle infield with a good young player ala Lowrie but Sherrill's value has risen to a point beyond that where we could pick and choose a second prospect. If the Sox want him bad enough, and I think Francona is enamoured by him, then Lowrie and Bowden makes more sense for the O's and more probable than the Sox giving up their starting CF which makes no sense on either side.

[brvn52]

You can't deal Sherrill. Who would be our closer?

Sarfate? Gave up three runs today without recording an out.
Bradford? He's not really a closer, more of a set up.
You could throw Johnson, maybe Cormier in there but they aren't like Sherrill.

Fact is, Sherrill increases our chances to win ball games THIS year.

Yes, I know we need to think about the future, a few years down the road, but heck i just watched our team battle back and win from being down 6 runs before they even swung the bat. The orioles are just two games away from .500 and i'm sick and tired of seeing the O's end with a losing record for 10 years running now. They have that attitude of never giving up that I haven't seen in quite awhile.

Don't let sherrill go.

If you get the right offer, you suck it up for a month and make Ray the closer when he comes back.

[JohnnyK27]

You can't deal Sherrill. Who would be our closer?
Sarfate? Gave up three runs today without recording an out.
Bradford? He's not really a closer, more of a set up.
You could throw Johnson, maybe Cormier in there but they aren't like Sherrill.

Fact is, Sherrill increases our chances to win ball games THIS year.

Yes, I know we need to think about the future, a few years down the road, but heck i just watched our team battle back and win from being down 6 runs before they even swung the bat. The orioles are just two games away from .500 and i'm sick and tired of seeing the O's end with a losing record for 10 years running now. They have that attitude of never giving up that I haven't seen in quite awhile.

Don't let sherrill go.

Who cares who our closer is??? Sherrill is 30 ... By the time the Orioles turn the corner Sherill will likely be in decline. Johnson could probably close anyway ...but I say it doesn't matter.

[JTrea81]

I would love to see an OF of Jones, Ellsbury, and Markakis- that could be very special for years.

But right- no way Sox trade JE, anyway. And like others have said, (I've seen Lowrie) and am not all that impressed. Lot of talent, but we could do better.

It wouldn't just be Lowrie coming back. If Bowden or Anderson were attached, Lowrie is the SS that fills the hole while Bowden or Anderson would be the real prize.

[cbm5042]

I'm going to disagree and say that Lowrie would be the headliner while Bowden may be the more valuable piece in the long run. Just like Jones and Tillman.

[JTrea81]

BTW here's what Sickels had to say on Lowrie (http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2008/1/24/16450/4179):


Jed Lowrie had a mediocre '06 season in the Carolina League, but he was injured much of the time. Fully healthy in '07, he rebounded with an excellent campaign in Double-A and Triple-A, posting +24 OPS and and +18 OPS respectively. He has good power for a middle infielder, and 47 doubles indicates that more could be on the way. He has excellent strike zone judgment, and aside from his injury-plagued season at Wilmington, he's hit for a high average in pro ball. He also looked better defensively in '07, showing enough range for shortstop. The Red Sox are very high on him, and other teams have asked about him in trades. I think he is one of the best prospects in baseball.Grade A-.

He thought about changing him to a B+ but thinks his grade of A- will ring true.

[bej6789]

It doesn't matter who's offering what for Sherrill. Mcphail has shown that he's not going to be forced into doing anything. He has a price tag for Sherrill, if the Red Sox want to meet it... great, they'll have a great SU man. If they don't, someone else will if they pay up. If not... Sherrill's an Oriole, it's really that simple.

[ChaosLex]

What would you guys want from the Rays? Brignac and who else?

If any of you say David Price, I'm going to have to neg-rep you. You've been warned. ;)

[vab]

Lowrie and Bowden is what it would take but the Red Sox would never do that for a situational lefty. What you would need to have any chance to get a package for Sherrill that MacPhail would take is a contender with a need at closer. I don't think that team exists.

[Boston Dave]

Sherrill and Reimold for Ellsbury is an awful trade for the Orioles and nobody in their right mind would make that deal. Sherrill for Ellsbury alone is a terrible trade. We don't need to focus on the outfield I think we're doing pretty well with Scott, Jones, and Markakis. We need to lock down that middle infield with a good young player ala Lowrie but Sherrill's value has risen to a point beyond that where we could pick and choose a second prospect. If the Sox want him bad enough, and I think Francona is enamoured by him, then Lowrie and Bowden makes more sense for the O's and more probable than the Sox giving up their starting CF which makes no sense on either side.

I can't see the Sox giving up Lowrie and Bowden for a "piece" like Sherrill, but that's just me.

[JTrea81]

What would you guys want from the Rays? Brignac and who else?

If any of you say David Price, I'm going to have to neg-rep you. You've been warned. ;)

Brignac and Hellickson. I like Brignac less because I don't think he can stick at SS, but he might be Mora's replacement at 3B.

[cbm5042]

Saying Brignac + Price is like saying Wieters + Tillman = never happen

Brignac and Hellickson or Davis though is comparable. The point is, if Sherrill goes its going to be for a LOT.

[ChaosLex]

I can't see the Sox giving up Lowrie and Bowden for a "piece" like Sherrill, but that's just me.

Didn't someone say that Francona really likes Sherrill though? Perhaps I'm thinking of another major leaguer...

[JTrea81]

Lowrie and Bowden is what it would take but the Red Sox would never do that for a situational lefty. What you would need to have any chance to get a package for Sherrill that MacPhail would take is a contender with a need at closer. I don't think that team exists.

The Dodgers fit the bill but if they can't make a deal that's fine. MacPhail will hang on to Sherrill and the Orioles will have a dominant LHP in the bullpen for the next 3 seasons.

Anyway you look at it, the Orioles win...

[cbm5042]

I would have never thought that but I really think Francona has a man crush on Sherrill and his performance in the clutch under the bright lights to where he knows he could perform in the post season. He wouldn't be trading for a set up man he would trade for a second closer. Imagine a situation where Papelbum works hard one night and can't save the next. No problem! Sherrill has MORE saves than he does. He is a set up man and top closer and it makes Boston's BP absolutely DEADLY. But, I'm willing to do it for Lowrie and Bowden.

Could you imagine Tillman, Bowden, Arrieta, and Matusz all coming up together. Thats scary.

[brvn52]

What would you guys want from the Rays? Brignac and who else?

If any of you say David Price, I'm going to have to neg-rep you. You've been warned. ;)

I'd certainly try to get one of their big 3 (Price/McGee/Davis). Davis, IMO, would be the most likely to be dealt. I think we may be able to pull Davis out if we throw in something small (Berkan).

Sherrill and Berkan for Brignac and Davis

[ChaosLex]

I would have never thought that but I really think Francona has a man crush on Sherrill and his performance in the clutch under the bright lights to where he knows he could perform in the post season. He wouldn't be trading for a set up man he would trade for a second closer. Imagine a situation where Papelbum works hard one night and can't save the next. No problem! Sherrill has MORE saves than he does. He is a set up man and top closer and it makes Boston's BP absolutely DEADLY. But, I'm willing to do it for Lowrie and Bowden.

Man, that'd be an awesome trade. I doubt Boston would do it, but there's no harm in asking. :D

[backwardsk]

What would you guys want from the Rays? Brignac and who else?

If any of you say David Price, I'm going to have to neg-rep you. You've been warned. ;)

Fine, I'll take Longoria and Brignac.:D

[cbm5042]

I kind of hope the MFY's creep up on Boston. Faced with the threat of not making the post season they would be more willing to make a deal that mortgages more of their future to make it happen this season.

[PoorMike]

Lowrie and Bowden is what it would take but the Red Sox would never do that for a situational lefty. What you would need to have any chance to get a package for Sherrill that MacPhail would take is a contender with a need at closer. I don't think that team exists.

He hasn't been a situational lefty for us.

They gave up Gabbard and Murphy for Gagne. Of course, EG was going to be a type B so they got a sandwich pick, but OTOH Sherrill is under control for a few years.

[cbm5042]

Gabbard = high ranking pitching prospect
Murphy = high ranking positional prospect

Bowden = high ranking pitching prospect
Lowrie = high ranking positional prospect

Seems fair.

[backwardsk]

I kind of hope the MFY's creep up on Boston. Faced with the threat of not making the post season they would be more willing to make a deal that mortgages more of their future to make it happen this season.

They've moved up to 4 games behind them...

[Boston Dave]

I kind of hope the MFY's creep up on Boston. Faced with the threat of not making the post season they would be more willing to make a deal that mortgages more of their future to make it happen this season.

Sounds like the Sox....

[wickedwitch]

Gabbard = high ranking pitching prospect
Murphy = high ranking positional prospect

Bowden = high ranking pitching prospect
Lowrie = high ranking positional prospect

Seems fair.

Bowden is much more highly regarded than Gabbard was, and Lowrie currently has a place on the MLB team, while Murphy did not.

We are not getting both Bowden and Lowrie back for Sherrill.

[JTrea81]

Bowden is much more highly regarded than Gabbard was, and Lowrie currently has a place on the MLB team, while Murphy did not.

We are not getting both Bowden and Lowrie back for Sherrill.

Then the Red Sox won't get Sherrill.

Our best bet is to have Fuentes go elsewhere and have the Sux and Rays both bidding on Sherrill to see if they can get the O's to pull the trigger.

[cbm5042]

Well in your attempt to prove me wrong you've actually made a very nice point for me wickedwitch. All that you're doing is switching the situations where as last year Gabbard was a bonified MLB starter for the Sox and had a place on the team and did quite well, while Bowden is only in AA. And Lowrie was just called up unlike Murphy who was in the minors. So you have 1 MLB player and 1 prospect just like last year's deal.

[J.D.]

Bowden is much more highly regarded than Gabbard was, and Lowrie currently has a place on the MLB team, while Murphy did not.

We are not getting both Bowden and Lowrie back for Sherrill.

Agree. That's pretty much swindling the Red Sox right there. And I don't think Theo Epstein's that easy to fool. And agree with JTrea... Boston's not getting Sherrill.

For the record, if it's Lowrie and a lower prospect, I still probably pull the trigger.

[nadecir]

Taking a look at Sherrill objectively, he's a slightly above average pitcher (OPS+ 105), with a 1.4 WHIP this season. He's rapidly approaching the highest number of innings he's ever pitched in a season, and his career numbers in August and September are not good. Sherrill's VORP is currently 223rd among pitchers this season.

If we could get the Red Sox to give us Lowrie and Bowden for Sherrill that would be a steal.

[T2E2C]

I think from the All-Star game Francona could see up close that Sherrill has the heart of a lion. Also, Francona would like more help between the starters and Papelbon.

Regarding Michael Bowden:


"Just basing it off his last 10 outings, the tests that have been presented to him, he's passed with flying colors," Portland pitching coach Mike Cather said before last night's 10-4 win over the Rock Cats. "He's attacked teams with his fastball, and when they've adjusted to his fastball, he's shown the ability to go to his secondary pitches and offset his fastball and then come back to his fastball.

"He's shown the ability to be dynamic on the mound and make adjustments between innings. I feel like the next test for him is going to be at another level, I truly do." http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/06/20/variety_spices_his_repertoire/

[twoBshorty]

I kind of hope the MFY's creep up on Boston. Faced with the threat of not making the post season they would be more willing to make a deal that mortgages more of their future to make it happen this season.

Sounds like the Sox....

Under Epstein, the Red Sox have traded the following notable (by this I mean that they are highly rated have actually done something approaching useful after being traded) prospects at or around the July 31 deadline:

2003: Freddy Sanchez
2004: Matt Murton
2005: None
2006: None
2007: Kason Gabbard, David Murphy, Engel Beltre

5 prospects in 5 years, and it's debatable if Murton is "notable." The Nomar trade really mortgaged nothing, and their larger trades (Crisp, Beckett/Lowell, Schilling, the Mirabelli debacle) have all been in the offseason. In short, there is no evidence that the Sox will become more likely to make a desperate trade at the deadline. In fact, 2005 and especially 2006, where they sat on their hands and fell into 3rd place, are evidence to the contrary. And I really don't think they'll break that pattern to trade one of their top pitching prospects and top infield prospects, who they need RIGHT NOW, in order to get George Sherrill. Kason Gabbard was a junkballing, low-ceiling LHP who rode the Pawtucket shuttle and was interchangeable with David Pauley and Devern Hansack. He was desirable to Texas because their pitching completely sucks. He is not comparable to Michael Bowden. David Murphy had no place on the team, unlike Jed Lowrie, unless people think the Red Sox are going to start Alex Cora at SS for the entire month of August. Engel Beltre is high-ceiling but he's 18 and nowhere close to the majors. The Gagne deal simply isn't the same as the Sherrill deal being proposed here.

[Fairfax Bird]

I think a Lowrie/Chris Carter deal is fair and benefits both teams.

[frankpembleton]

I think I would bet everything I own on that Boston would not trade for Sherill....

[frankpembleton]

I think I would bet everything I own that Boston would not trade for Sherill....

[NoVaO]

I think a Lowrie/Chris Carter deal is fair and benefits both teams.

That sounds about right...or a high upside guy down in the lower minor league levels...not elite, but having somewhat equivalent value to Carter.

[GeorgeD]

On the subject of trading with a division rival … I know this is irrational, but I would be upset of the Orioles made a trade that helped the Yankees win the World Series. On the other hand, if a trade that benefits the Birds and helps the Red Sox or Rays keep the Yankees out of the playoffs I would be a happy guy. Like I said, it's irrational but that's the way I feel.

[powervich]

The Orioles will not be good for the year(s) that Sherrill is improving the Redsox anyway. Trade him.

You should also use this logic for any player on our team over 25.

[Mike B]

You can't trade sherrill to someone in our division, that doesnt do us any good. We'd run into him in the ninth one day and he'd shut us down.

Wrong, if the guys coming back make us a better team for the long run and maybe one Jed Lowrie becomes our SS for the next, say 6 years you trade. I love Sherrill's team first attitude and how he stands up in the good and the bad but if it makes us better in 2010 you go for it.

[Mike B]

Why do we want Ellsbury? Why would they trade their starting CF?

The answer is we want players and Ellsbury is a player. He could play left and help form the best defensive outfield in baseball. He would also hit two and help form the best 1-2 in baseball. The problem is, as you surmised, hell no the Red sox would not trade their starting CF. Lowrie is a different story. I think they would trade him.

[rirams96]

Living in sox nation a couple things they are talking about up here.

Lowrie has not impressed Red Sox management. They claim he is very arrogant and not willing to learn from the veteran players.

Also that Theo is lookng for a long term solution at SS. They obviously were not happy with Lugo prior to the injury and they don't see Lowrie as the answer.

If the Orioles trade with Boston they better do better than Bowden, Lowrie and Carter. In my opinion if we trade in division the price does up drastically.

Great win last nite that is why I have watched every game this year. Not played perfectly but they never quit and that leads to exciting games.

[WebLink21]

Would you do Lowrie and Bowden - seems like an Andy Mac kind of move. A young SS who can hopefully hold down the fort and a good young pitcher to add to the stable.

I would do this in a second. I don't understand (and wll never understand) why people say that we shouldn't trade within the division. Yes, we would have to fce Sherill more in the future, but hopefully they would have to deal with a younger, better O'e team in the future. If we cut off trading with teams in the division, I think we cut off very good pipelines for trades and getting as much talent as possible on this team.

[PoorMike]

Under Epstein, the Red Sox have traded the following notable (by this I mean that they are highly rated have actually done something approaching useful after being traded) prospects at or around the July 31 deadline:

2003: Freddy Sanchez
2004: Matt Murton
2005: None
2006: None
2007: Kason Gabbard, David Murphy, Engel Beltre

5 prospects in 5 years, and it's debatable if Murton is "notable." The Nomar trade really mortgaged nothing, and their larger trades (Crisp, Beckett/Lowell, Schilling, the Mirabelli debacle) have all been in the offseason. In short, there is no evidence that the Sox will become more likely to make a desperate trade at the deadline. In fact, 2005 and especially 2006, where they sat on their hands and fell into 3rd place, are evidence to the contrary. And I really don't think they'll break that pattern to trade one of their top pitching prospects and top infield prospects, who they need RIGHT NOW, in order to get George Sherrill. Kason Gabbard was a junkballing, low-ceiling LHP who rode the Pawtucket shuttle and was interchangeable with David Pauley and Devern Hansack. He was desirable to Texas because their pitching completely sucks. He is not comparable to Michael Bowden. David Murphy had no place on the team, unlike Jed Lowrie, unless people think the Red Sox are going to start Alex Cora at SS for the entire month of August. Engel Beltre is high-ceiling but he's 18 and nowhere close to the majors. The Gagne deal simply isn't the same as the Sherrill deal being proposed here.

True, they do 'need' him 'right now'..but he wasn't a starter when everyone was healthy. He wasn't even on the 25 man.

[PoorMike]

The answer is we want players and Ellsbury is a player. He could play left and help form the best defensive outfield in baseball. He would also hit two and help form the best 1-2 in baseball. The problem is, as you surmised, hell no the Red sox would not trade their starting CF. Lowrie is a different story. I think they would trade him.

I thinking more of practical terms. I doubt we would think of asking a contender for a starting player. If BOS wants him that bad, we'd be better off taking a package of prospects.

[WebLink21]

Living in sox nation a couple things they are talking about up here.

Lowrie has not impressed Red Sox management. They claim he is very arrogant and not willing to learn from the veteran players.

Also that Theo is lookng for a long term solution at SS. They obviously were not happy with Lugo prior to the injury and they don't see Lowrie as the answer.

If the Orioles trade with Boston they better do better than Bowden, Lowrie and Carter. In my opinion if we trade in division the price does up drastically.

Great win last nite that is why I have watched every game this year. Not played perfectly but they never quit and that leads to exciting games.

Very nice post. Appreciate the insights from up there.

[Ruzious]

I thinking more of practical terms. I doubt we would think of asking a contender for a starting player. If BOS wants him that bad, we'd be better off taking a package of prospects.
Including Ellsbury makes basically no sense for either team, as he's more valuable to Boston, and major league ready higher ceiling prospects are more valuable to the O's. And unless the O's are trading Roberts, they don't need a .700 OPS leadoff hitter.

[Spoonless]

So what?

Lowrie could be our SS for the next 8 years.....He'd have a bigger impact both for us and against the Sox than Sherrill would with them and against us.


BTW here's what Sickels had to say on Lowrie (http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2008/1/24/16450/4179):



He thought about changing him to a B+ but thinks his grade of A- will ring true.


From what they've been saying on the radio over here in Red Sox country is that Lowrie will likely end up away from SS, likely at 2B. So, I guess we could slot Lowrie in at SS, and if we can trade Roberts and pick up a young SS, slide Lowrie over. It just doesn't sound that Lowrie would really be a long-term solution at SS.

All the other research on him that I've been able to find says he has a "decent glove" and "below-average range" and that he'll likely be a 2B. I did see one report that said he could man SS "adequately."

That said, I'm sure he's a better option than what we've been running out there, but we'd definitely need to get an additional piece with him to make it worth Sherrill.

[Foley]

For those of you saying Boston should trade Lowrie for Sherrill, who exactly do you expect them to play at short for the rest of the season?

Lugo is out for at least 4-6 weeks, and some reports say much longer. Lowire is an important piece of their team right now, and there is no quality player behind him. Trading a starting shortstop for a situational lefty is not a move that a team does in order to improve. It would force them to a) use Alex Cora as the starting SS, which would be a black hole in the lineup and weaken the bench at the same time, or b) make a trade for another shortstop, which would be just as bad. Making a trade that forces you to make another trade puts you in a very bad spot.

[Dipper9]

You can't trade sherrill to someone in our division, that doesnt do us any good. We'd run into him in the ninth one day and he'd shut us down.

Ummm...I think the ninth belongs to some Palpabon fella. :rolleyes: But point taken!

I would trade him to whomever gives the best package, regardless of what team that is.

[elsid]

Here is today's take from Olney, discussing the Angels...quoted


The Orioles are letting teams other than their AL East rivals know that they are willing to talk about closer George Sherrill, and he would fit in perfectly for the Angels, in the immediate future, and in the big-picture. Sherrill would give them another excellent reliever for an already strong bullpen in 2008, and he would give them the great matchup lefty they have lacked for years. "Talk about shortening the game," a rival official mused. "Their bullpen would be incredible."

And Sherrill would give the Angels a clear alternative to Francisco Rodriguez as the closer heads into free agency and looks for an eight-figured salary; Sherrill will be eligible for arbitration for the first time next winter. "The Angels' farm system isn't as deep as it once was," said an AL talent evaluator, "but to get Sherrill, that would make sense."

And in other news...quoted

Gary Matthews has a torn ACL
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/matthews-rodriguez-angels-2099002-season-run

[The Wedge]

elsid, I hope you stick around, forums wise, if your bro gets traded.

[cbm5042]

Well that would mean they are trading for a closer and not just a set up man so I mean really the sky is the limit. I would want the same thing that Colorado asked for Holliday and its a ton. One of Ervin Santana or Joe Saunders, Adenhart, and a prospect.

[Old#5fan]

The Red Sox, Olney says, would probably love to land Sherrill and have prospects to offer, but isn't sure the O's would trade with a division rival.


I would hope Mcphail could get it done for the right package. I dont think the philosophy of not dealing in the division still hold true... Eh Right???

Would might it take for a Sherrill to the Red Sox deal to work. :scratchchinhmm:


If they trade Sherrill to any division rival but particularly the Sox, Yankees or Rays which will undoubtedly strengthen them considerably for the foreseable future, then they better make sure they trade Roberts, Mora, Millar, Huff, Hernandez, and possibly even Scott for prospects, because if they do something like this (trade one of their best players within the division) they are conceding they are in a complete and full rebuild mode and this team won't be competitive until at least five years in the future. In other words their should be a wholesale purge of any veteran approaching 30 or older. Otherwise, this would be a totally stupid move IMO.

[clapdiddy]

If they trade Sherrill to any division rival but particularly the Sox, Yankees or Rays which will undoubtedly strengthen them considerably for the foreseable future, then they better make sure they trade Roberts, Mora, Millar, Huff, Hernandez, and possibly even Scott for prospects, because if they do something like this (trade one of their best players within the division) they are conceding they are in a complete and full rebuild mode and this team won't be competitive until at least five years in the future. In other words their should be a wholesale purge of any veteran approaching 30 or older. Otherwise, this would be a totally stupid move IMO.
So, if they acquire two guys from a division rival that they can put in their lineup immediately they are conceding that they are in complete rebuild mode?

A closer on this team is replaceable with Johnson and/or Ray when he comes back. We don't have ANY position players outside of Wieters and possibly Reimold who are ready to contribute to this team next season. And....who's to say they don't acquire a closer in the off season?

[Old#5fan]

So, if they acquire two guys from a division rival that they can put in their lineup immediately they are conceding that they are in complete rebuild mode?

A closer on this team is replaceable with Johnson and/or Ray when he comes back. We don't have ANY position players outside of Wieters and possibly Reimold who are ready to contribute to this team next season. And....who's to say they don't acquire a closer in the off season?

Ray should be tried as a setup man when he comes back first to see if he can even handle that. He certainly never convinced me he could handle the closer job previously. Johnson could be tried as a closer but he is extremely valuable right now as a set up man and considering how unreliable our starting pitching is I would be heisitant to change him. I also don't like the idea because he's going to a division rival. It always galled me to watch BJ Ryan facing the Orioles as well as Mussina and both of them should have been retained. I am not opposed to trading Sherrill, but much like the Bedard and Tejada deals, it needs to be done without hurting us by strenghening our division rivals. Just common sense. Now if we are in a full rebuild mode, that is a different story, so in that scenario you are conceding the division for the next three or four years at a minimum. In that case, I would agree with doing it, but only under a full rebuild mode.

[elsid]

elsid, I hope you stick around, forums wise, if your bro gets traded.

You mean, then I could be a "real poster" :eek::clap3::wedge:

[Aberdeener]

Who cares who our closer is??? Sherrill is 30 ... By the time the Orioles turn the corner Sherill will likely be in decline. Johnson could probably close anyway ...but I say it doesn't matter.

Bingo. It's fun to watch Sherrill but he's a 31 year old who, thanks to the All-Star game, is riding quite a wave of popularity. I don't see any reason to hold onto an already (in baseball terms) middle aged player to bridge the gap to our contending years when that player himself might be able to bring back top prospects.. People will overpay for him, and we should pounce on that.

This season is painfully showing how fickle prospects can be. Before this season everyone was drooling at the idea of seeing Penn, Olson and Liz in the rotation and now everybody averts their eyes when they take the ball. Need to continue to draft better and stockpile talent.

[elsid]

He's 31, ok everyone, 4/19/77.

Yes, that makes him even one year closer to the grave (no pun intended).

[ChaosLex]

elsid, I hope you stick around, forums wise, if your bro gets traded.

elsid will show up next on Sons of Sam Horn. :eek:

[The Wedge]

You mean, then I could be a "real poster" :eek::clap3::wedge:

You're a real poster in my book, dude.

[The Wedge]

He's 31, ok everyone, 4/19/77.

Yes, that makes him even one year closer to the grave (no pun intended).

You just reminded me I'm 3 months shy of my 31st. Thaaaaaaanks.

[Mike B]

[QUOTE=elsid;1412220]He's 31, ok everyone, 4/19/77.

Yes, that makes him even one year closer to the grave (no pun intended).[/QUOTE

31 ancient....maybe we should shoot him. As for me, I have to turn off this game and head out to buy a cemetary plot.

[elsid]

You just reminded me I'm 3 months shy of my 31st. Thaaaaaaanks.

Then I've got you beat. I am 34, 3 years and a week ahead of my bro. I will buy you a cane for your b-day, then, since you are so ancient. I thought the play on words from my last post would have gotten more play with closer.

Not sure what is going to happen. I haven't talked to anyone lately. Posted part of Olney's blog from today, earlier in this thread -- page 6, I think.

[JTrea81]

Then I've got you beat. I am 34, 3 years and a week ahead of my bro. I will buy you a cane for your b-day, then, since you are so ancient. I thought the play on words from my last post would have gotten more play with closer.

Not sure what is going to happen. I haven't talked to anyone lately. Posted part of Olney's blog from today, earlier in this thread -- page 6, I think.

At this point, I think it's 50/50 he's traded. With teams wanting to hang onto their top position prospects like gold, and the Orioles needing to be overwhelmed by an offer, it's going to take a team to mortgage part of their future to land Sherrill. It seems that the Orioles still don't want to deal in the division according to that Olney comment, so my guess is he's not going anywhere...

[elsid]

I wasn't going to go searching for the thread it was in, however Durham was traded from San Francisco to Milwaukee for Steve Hammond and Darren Ford.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3497321

[ChaosLex]

At this point, I think it's 50/50 he's traded. With teams wanting to hang onto their top position prospects like gold, and the Orioles needing to be overwhelmed by an offer, it's going to take a team to mortgage part of their future to land Sherrill. It seems that the Orioles still don't want to deal in the division according to that Olney comment, so my guess is he's not going anywhere...

Then the FO has learned nothing from the decade of losing. Color me surprised.

[elsid]

Then the FO has learned nothing from the decade of losing. Color me surprised.

Here's the latest from Olney...quoted


Sherrill on his way out of Baltimore?
George Sherrill | Orioles | Interested: Red Sox? Angels? Dodgers?
With George Sherrill not up for free agency until 2011 he could be the most coveted closer in the trade market, ESPN's Buster Olney reports. Sherrill has the least amount of service time of any available closer and lefties are hitting just .163 against him.

With the July 31 deadline rapidly approaching, the Baltimore Orioles director of baseball operations Andy MacPhail is said to be quietly gauging Sherrill's value.

Olney adds that the Los Angeles Dodgers, the Los Angeles Angels and the Boston Red Sox could be in the hunt for Sherrill's services.

[QWJay]

31 ancient....maybe we should shoot him. As for me, I have to turn off this game and head out to buy a cemetary plot.
If 31 makes Sherrill ancient than 37 makes Mora prehistoric! :laughlol:

Now to the topic at hand.... I think the Orioles hold on to Sherrill because of his favorable contract status.

[NewMarketSean]

You can't trade sherrill to someone in our division, that doesnt do us any good. We'd run into him in the ninth one day and he'd shut us down.

When is the last time Sherrill shut anyone down? He regularly puts men on and flirts with disaster. I say trade him to whomever will give up the most for him, even if that includes the Yankees or Red Sox.

[AgentOrange]

When is the last time Sherrill shut anyone down? He regularly puts men on and flirts with disaster. I say trade him to whomever will give up the most for him, even if that includes the Yankees or Red Sox.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2008_07_15_nasmlb_aasmlb_1

[NewMarketSean]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2008_07_15_nasmlb_aasmlb_1

Regardless of what he's done in exhibition games, he's not a dominant closer, is 31 and should DEFINITELY be considered for trades.

[AgentOrange]

Regardless of what he's done in exhibition games, he's not a dominant closer, is 31 and should DEFINITELY be considered for trades.

Hey, I agree with what you were saying, but come on. You know if you post something like "When is the last time Sherrill shut anyone down?", you know someone will find a time he did and show it to you. :p

[mweb]

Here's a site ranking the Sox prospects: http://www.soxprospects.com/

I'd take Lowrie, Almanzar, and Carter, and think that may be fair. I don't see us getting Lowrie and Masterson/Bowden.

Or Lowrie and Anderson would be great.

If they don't want to deal Lowrie, I'd be fine with substituting Anderson for Lowrie in the first deal.

[JohnnyK27]

When is the last time Sherrill shut anyone down? He regularly puts men on and flirts with disaster. I say trade him to whomever will give up the most for him, even if that includes the Yankees or Red Sox.

Agreed Sean .... I know Sherrill is not ancient ... Nor is Roberts,Scott & Huff. But they are the O's most valuable trade chips. They will either be on the downside of their careers (much like Mora) or gone by the time the O's are good again.

[crawjo]

Uhm, look at his numbers....Sherrill is not that good. In a good bullpen he would be a late inning setup man brought in to get lefties out. As a closer he's barely adequate. Forget the saves...look at the peripheral numbers and his ERA. The Orioles should be absolutely looking to deal him now if his stock is high in some corners of the league.

[The Wedge]

Then I've got you beat. I am 34, 3 years and a week ahead of my bro. I will buy you a cane for your b-day, then, since you are so ancient. I thought the play on words from my last post would have gotten more play with closer.

Not sure what is going to happen. I haven't talked to anyone lately. Posted part of Olney's blog from today, earlier in this thread -- page 6, I think.

A cane might be appreciated...I do have bad knees. ;)

[eric824]

Jon Miller raised the Sherrill to the Angels possibility during the Angels/Sox game a short while ago. Joe Morgan thought it made sense but argued the Angels need offense a lot more.
Peter Gammons said the Angels' brass told him they don't expect to do much at the deadline, but Jon and Joe didn't seem to believe that.

Sherrill and Huff in a package?

[elsid]

Uhm, look at his numbers....Sherrill is not that good. In a good bullpen he would be a late inning setup man brought in to get lefties out. As a closer he's barely adequate. Forget the saves...look at the peripheral numbers and his ERA. The Orioles should be absolutely looking to deal him now if his stock is high in some corners of the league.

Some of these things aren't like the others. Can you name them?

He was a late inning set up man to get lefties out in the past, so I guess you might be able to predict the future. He is not that good, but he is barely an adequate closer. How is that possible? If it is, then the O's are horrid.

What peripherals are you wanting to look at? ERA doesn't really matter, though I will mention it below. It is in the AL, anything under 4 is pretty good. Total BAA is only .229 (4th best BAA on the O's pitching staff).

Just in the AL, among the major closers (KRod, Papelbon, Nathan, Soria, Rivera, Wilson, Percival, Jenks, Jones, Ryan, Street), Sherrill ranks the following:

5th in K (44)
T 10th BB (24)
9th in ERA (3.89)
8th in BAA (.229)
9th in OBA (.331)
9th in SLG (.373)
5th in K/9 (9.50)
11th in BB/9 (5.18)
T 8th in H/9 (7.56)
9th in WHIP (1.42)

If that is that bad, then I am sorry for O's fan. I have let you down. My brother has let you down. Guess if he had only sucked a little worse, they would already be sellers.

[SevisonJN]

When is the last time Sherrill shut anyone down? He regularly puts men on and flirts with disaster. I say trade him to whomever will give up the most for him, even if that includes the Yankees or Red Sox.

You mean other than at the All-Star game where he recorded 7 outs against some of the best hitters in the game? I think some Orioles fans undervalue Sherrill because he doesn't get them one, two, three without having the ball hit. Closers like Rivera, Rodriguez, Papelbon, and Nathan have used amazing fastballs to strikeout batters. Sherrill doesn't throw that hard so it makes it harder for him to get the K, which is much more sexy than a few flyouts. Our closer is an above average left handed hitter. Lefties are hitting .163 against him, I would have to say that is well below the league average.

[cmcgarvey]

During the Sox and Angels game this evening, the guys on ESPN were talking about Sherrill going to the Angels.

[Sports Guy]

Here's a site ranking the Sox prospects: http://www.soxprospects.com/

I'd take Lowrie, Almanzar, and Carter, and think that may be fair. I don't see us getting Lowrie and Masterson/Bowden.

Or Lowrie and Anderson would be great.

If they don't want to deal Lowrie, I'd be fine with substituting Anderson for Lowrie in the first deal.I would for this deal to happen.

It would be interesting if this was put on the table if the O's would accept it.

AM wants 2 ML ready players...Does he HAVE to have that or is 1 ML ready player and a terrific prospect enough?

[JTrea81]

I would for this deal to happen.

It would be interesting if this was put on the table if the O's would accept it.

AM wants 2 ML ready players...Does he HAVE to have that or is 1 ML ready player and a terrific prospect enough?

Considering Anderson is pretty much ML ready or will be after this season, I'd say Lowrie and Anderson would be two ML ready players...

[ChaosLex]

During the Sox and Angels game this evening, the guys on ESPN were talking about Sherrill going to the Angels.

Hmm... I wonder what we could get from the Angels. Unfortunately, it's doubtful they'd part with Adenhart.

[JTrea81]

Hmm... I wonder what we could get from the Angels. Unfortunately, it's doubtful they'd part with Adenhart.

Adenhart is getting shelled this season in AAA, so I doubt he's untouchable. I think his prospect status has taken a hit. I'm really not fond of the Angels prospects any more. I'd rather deal with the Dodgers, Sox and Rays...

[ChaosLex]

Adenhart is getting shelled this season in AAA, so I doubt he's untouchable. I think his prospect status has taken a hit. I'm really not fond of the Angels prospects any more. I'd rather deal with the Dodgers, Sox and Rays...

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of Adenhart's numbers at AAA.

[amateurfan]

Some of these things aren't like the others. Can you name them?

He was a late inning set up man to get lefties out in the past, so I guess you might be able to predict the future. He is not that good, but he is barely an adequate closer. How is that possible? If it is, then the O's are horrid.

What peripherals are you wanting to look at? ERA doesn't really matter, though I will mention it below. It is in the AL, anything under 4 is pretty good. Total BAA is only .229 (4th best BAA on the O's pitching staff).

Just in the AL, among the major closers (KRod, Papelbon, Nathan, Soria, Rivera, Wilson, Percival, Jenks, Jones, Ryan, Street), Sherrill ranks the following:

5th in K (44)
T 10th BB (24)
9th in ERA (3.89)
8th in BAA (.229)
9th in OBA (.331)
9th in SLG (.373)
5th in K/9 (9.50)
11th in BB/9 (5.18)
T 8th in H/9 (7.56)
9th in WHIP (1.42)

If that is that bad, then I am sorry for O's fan. I have let you down. My brother has let you down. Guess if he had only sucked a little worse, they would already be sellers.

It's a totally different situation for you then it is for us Orioles fans. Honestly, I get uncomfortable when you post on here and we post about your brother because the relationship is personal for you. GS has done a good job this year. It really doesn't matter what anyone on here says about him, especially for you. You stand up for him well, but what difference does it make what some person posts on an internet message board?
Also, it is really different for those of us who are just Orioles fans. Many of us have or have had personal relationships with members of the organization at different times, but as a fan all that matters is that the Orioles win. GS has helped in that way this year tremendously. If many of us think that he will help the Orioles win by getting traded, that's not a personal condemnation of him - it's simply the desire to win more games. I will support any move the FO makes if it results in more wins.
As for the part in bold, I'm not sure how YOU let us down. I fail to see how you have anything to do with the Orioles fortunes on the field (unless I'm missing something). Finally, feel sorry for us if you want, but that's your business and hardly relevant to the Orioles winning more games. If your brother gets traded, I hope it's to a team that has a better chance to win this year (and that's not personal either). Maybe you should think of it like that. Andy MacPhail gave your brother a chance to improve his career exponentially, his pockets exponentially. Now, AM has a chance to make your brother a winner - either with the Orioles (if he thinks that they will compete next year and makes the requisite moves) or this year in a trade.
Take Care

[Peace21]

It amazes me that people here want to see Sherrill traded. You trade him than good luck landing Teixera.

[ChaosLex]

It amazes me that people here want to see Sherrill traded. You trade him than good luck landing Teixera.

Huh? BRob I can understand, but we already have another closer in Ray due back next season.

Hasn't Sherrill blown only one less save than Ray did last season?

[Peace21]

Huh? BRob I can understand, but we already have another closer in Ray due back next season.

Hasn't Sherrill blown only one less save than Ray did last season?

Chris Ray? Are you serious? The guy isnt even a certainty.

[Lucky Jim]

It amazes me that people here want to see Sherrill traded. You trade him than good luck landing Teixera.

I didn't know that Sherrill and Teixeira were that tight.

[ChaosLex]

Chris Ray? Are you serious? The guy isnt even a certainty.

Neither is Sherrill.

[JTrea81]

It amazes me that people here want to see Sherrill traded. You trade him than good luck landing Teixera.

I don't want to see Sherrill traded, but if MacPhail is blown away then he should be dealt. If we fill two position holes including 1B we may not even need Tex. We might be able to go after Dunn instead.

Tex will sign for the most $. If we offer the most he's ours regardless. I highly doubt he'd turn down the most $ to go play for Boston or either New York team.

[BaltimoreGhost]

It amazes me that people here want to see Sherrill traded. You trade him than good luck landing Teixera.

Absolutely Baffling

You really believe that a 31-yr old first time closer would be the hinge on whether or not Teixeira would choose Baltimore.

First off, theres always free agency and players like K-rod in it to replace Sherrill.

Second of all, Teixeira or no Teixeira we aren't going to win anything for years with our current starting pitching and middle relief, so what does the closer matter?

Your post leads me to believe that you look at this team as on the cusp of greatness, while in reality we are the worst team in our division and signs are pointing at us staying there for some time if we don't restock our farm system to even come close to what the rays and sawks are working with. I mean they are light years ahead of us NOW, and their farm systems are also that way, so we need to somehow maneuver all possible options to get good young talent so that we don't have to rebuild the slow way....through the draft. (which is how the Brewers and Rays got to where they are)

In no way do I think Ray is the solution, but no way a CLOSER is as valuable to us as what we would likely net in return during a contending teams hour of desperation at the deadline. Call up McCrory for the rest of the year and deal with it in FA or something. But I'd trade a closer for a young soon-to-be solid everyday position player any day of the week.

[TyCobb]

Blow this team up. We could probably get great value out of Sherrill and Huff.

[bej6789]

Absolutely Baffling

You really believe that a 31-yr old first time closer would be the hinge on whether or not Teixeira would choose Baltimore.

First off, theres always free agency and players like K-rod in it to replace Sherrill.

Second of all, Teixeira or no Teixeira we aren't going to win anything for years with our current starting pitching and middle relief, so what does the closer matter?

Your post leads me to believe that you look at this team as on the cusp of greatness, while in reality we are the worst team in our division and signs are pointing at us staying there for some time if we don't restock our farm system to even come close to what the rays and sawks are working with. I mean they are light years ahead of us NOW, and their farm systems are also that way, so we need to somehow maneuver all possible options to get good young talent so that we don't have to rebuild the slow way....through the draft. (which is how the Brewers and Rays got to where they are)

In no way do I think Ray is the solution, but no way a CLOSER is as valuable to us as what we would likely net in return during a contending teams hour of desperation at the deadline. Call up McCrory for the rest of the year and deal with it in FA or something. But I'd trade a closer for a young soon-to-be solid everyday position player any day of the week.

Let me tell you, there's more merrit to peace's post than you give him credit. I can assure you, being a .500 ballclub matters to Tex. Sherrill isn't the deciding factor, he's one of a few that can sway an 81 win team or a 75 win team though.

[clapdiddy]

Let me tell you, there's more merrit to peace's post than you give him credit. I can assure you, being a .500 ballclub matters to Tex. Sherrill isn't the deciding factor, he's one of a few that can sway an 81 win team or a 75 win team though.

So...an 81 win team that finishes 10 games out of the wild card is more appealing than one that finishes 16 games out?

What if we DON'T trade anyone AND we finish with 77 - 78 wins? Does that mean that Teix won't come here?

I don't understand why Sherrill's presence makes that big of a difference one way or the other. What if we get two young guys for Sherrill who are ready to step in and make a difference on this team NEXT season? What if we get a young pitcher for Huff who could be the closer next season?

I don't think anyone on this board is saying that we should just give away Sherrill or Huff or anyone else. If we are able to make smart deals for guys who would be ready to contribute by sometime next season, we HAVE to do it.

[Why Not?]

Let me tell you, there's more merrit to peace's post than you give him credit. I can assure you, being a .500 ballclub matters to Tex. Sherrill isn't the deciding factor, he's one of a few that can sway an 81 win team or a 75 win team though.

Sherrill is not worth six wins, not even in that neighborhood.

I could totally see a situation in which Sherrill is traded, then somebody else puts up 12-15 saves between July 31 and the end of the season.

[Stotle]

After going back and looking at Sherrill's splits, I'm coming around to him being worth a decent package, in upwards of one of the following:

One top 10, one top 20 and one low-minors throw-in

or

Two top 15

He's more valuable as a lefty-specialist than he is as a closer, and that's the role he'd have for LAA/BOS for sure, and I'd imagine LAN (Broxton has more typical "stopper" stuff).

[Old#5fan]

Then the FO has learned nothing from the decade of losing. Color me surprised.

Why would they prefer to help thier division rivals when there are plenty of other teams they can deal with where that is a non-issue. If you trade within your division you are immediately diminishing your return by whatever element you improve your division rival by. This is only common sense. Sometimes the thought processes on this board totally mystify me.:confused:Thank goodness we have a Front Office with some common sense.:clap3:

[ChaosLex]

Why would they prefer to help thier division rivals when there are plenty of other teams they can deal with where that is a non-issue. If you trade within your division you are immediately diminishing your return by whatever element you improve your division rival by. This is only common sense. Sometimes the thought processes on this board totally mystify me.:confused:Thank goodness we have a Front Office with some common sense.:clap3:

Actually, it's not. It'll weaken our division rivals in the long run, considering they'll have to give up prospects (i.e., their future) for said players.

[ColumbiaOriole]

Why would they prefer to help thier division rivals when there are plenty of other teams they can deal with where that is a non-issue. If you trade within your division you are immediately diminishing your return by whatever element you improve your division rival by. This is only common sense. Sometimes the thought processes on this board totally mystify me.:confused:Thank goodness we have a Front Office with some common sense.:clap3:

Common sense does not involve not trading with four teams solely because they're in your division. Why would you cut down the number of teams you can work with? We will not compete this year or likely next. Who cares if we make a team in the AL East better short term? We are concerned with making our team better long term. You fail to realize that regardless of how much we improve a rival, we will improve ourselves. Not trading within the division implies that you are scared of being ripped off. Honestly, if I think I'm getting the better of a deal, I'd rather it be within the division and help myself while hurting the other team long term. If we improve our team more than say the Red Sox improve their team with a trade between us, how have we diminished our return? I hope our front office isn't close-minded enough to ignore the talent in other AL East organizations due to some silly idea that we shouldn't trade within the division.

[Old#5fan]

Actually, it's not. It'll weaken our division rivals in the long run, considering they'll have to give up prospects (i.e., their future) for said players.

You seem to be totally overlooking the fact than most prospects no matter how highly touted don't pan out whereas the division rival is getting proven and immediate help. You are totally discounting an obvious fact.

[Old#5fan]

Common sense does not involve not trading with four teams solely because they're in your division. Why would you cut down the number of teams you can work with? We will not compete this year or likely next. Who cares if we make a team in the AL East better short term? We are concerned with making our team better long term. You fail to realize that regardless of how much we improve a rival, we will improve ourselves. Not trading within the division implies that you are scared of being ripped off. Honestly, if I think I'm getting the better of a deal, I'd rather it be within the division and help myself while hurting the other team long term. If we improve our team more than say the Red Sox improve their team with a trade between us, how have we diminished our return? I hope our front office isn't close-minded enough to ignore the talent in other AL East organizations due to some silly idea that we shouldn't trade within the division.


It wouldn't be "close-minded" to avoid trading within the division but smart in my estimation. Never help strengthen an opponent while gambling you will improve with unproven prospects. You would be much better off going anywhere else but within the division to do this. The only circumstances I see doing this would be under a complete housecleaning/full rebuild mode. Just trading George Sherill to the Red Sox, Boston or even Tampa for prospects would be about as dumb a move as they could ever make. I for one know that AM is too astute for that.

[TGO]

Red herring alert there, Oldfan.

If you make the trade, you're already making a value decision that the prospects have a greater chance of helping you down the line than the veteran.

If you decide the deals are good enough and you're making the trade, you take the best deal, period. Every time. In division, in league, doesn't matter. If the offers are equal, fine, go outside the division. If Boston's deal is the best, do it.

[JohnnyK27]

Red herring alert there, Oldfan.

If you make the trade, you're already making a value decision that the prospects have a greater chance of helping you down the line than the veteran.

If you decide the deals are good enough and you're making the trade, you take the best deal, period. Every time. In division, in league, doesn't matter. If the offers are equal, fine, go outside the division. If Boston's deal is the best, do it.

I cant agree more.... Its amazing how we continue to want to have policies that prevent whats best for the club. IMO Sherrill does a highwire act when pitching. Constantly putting guys on base. Sooner or later that will comback to bite him. Good player YES...Untradeable in our division ..Not Hardly~

[ChaosLex]

You seem to be totally overlooking the fact than most prospects no matter how highly touted don't pan out whereas the division rival is getting proven and immediate help. You are totally discounting an obvious fact.

You're aware that we're battling for 4th place right now, correct?

[BaltimoreGhost]

Let me tell you, there's more merrit to peace's post than you give him credit. I can assure you, being a .500 ballclub matters to Tex. Sherrill isn't the deciding factor, he's one of a few that can sway an 81 win team or a 75 win team though.

I guess you know Tex then, you act like you know his thought process? The fact is that if Tex choses Baltimore its going to be be because he wants to play for his home team, if winning is most important, there's about 20 options better than Baltimore right now, regardless who is closing. And what does .500 ball club have to do with our closer? The guy is hired to NOT blow winning games, He doesn't help us get to that winning position at all. If we can't get there, he's absolutely worthless to us, however more valuable to a team that does put him in a position to shut the door. Meaning we should be able to get players which are more valuable to us for the future. I mean we basically picked up Sherrill off the scrap-heap as I had never really seen him before this season, I'm sure it won't be extremely difficult for us to make another find of his caliber when we are ready to challenge the big dogs in the division. Which best case will be when he's in his mid-late 30's...best case.

[BaltimoreGhost]

Why would they prefer to help thier division rivals when there are plenty of other teams they can deal with where that is a non-issue. If you trade within your division you are immediately diminishing your return by whatever element you improve your division rival by. This is only common sense. Sometimes the thought processes on this board totally mystify me.:confused:Thank goodness we have a Front Office with some common sense.:clap3:

Using your logic and speaking in your terms...If you win the trade, your division rival is worse for the wear and you've double-whammied them by not only detracting thier situation, but improving your own. Why have a defeatist attitude and assume that you will fair worse than the other team in the long run. In the current thread we are discussing trading Sherrill. Why not lend Sherrill to the Sawks or Yanks or even Rays for a few years in return for an everyday position player or starter that can help the team for years to come.
No, not all prospects pan out, but you have to have some faith in your scouting department if you're going to rebuild.

[elsid]

I guess you know Tex then, you act like you know his though process? And what does .500 ball club have to do with our closer? The guy is hired to NOT blow winning games, He doesn't help us get to that winning position at all. If we can't get there, he's absolutely worthless to us, however more valuable to a team that does put him in a position to shut the door. Meaning we should be able to get players which are more valuable to us for the future. I mean we basically picked up Sherrill off the scrap-heap as I had never really seen him before this season, I'm sure it won't be extremely difficult for us to make another find of his caliber when we are ready to challenge the big dogs in the division. Which best case will be when he's in his mid-late 30's...best case.

:noinsider:

I'm going to leave that one alone

[bej6789]

I guess you know Tex then, you act like you know his thought process? The fact is that if Tex choses Baltimore its going to be be because he wants to play for his home team, if winning is most important, there's about 20 options better than Baltimore right now, regardless who is closing. And what does .500 ball club have to do with our closer? The guy is hired to NOT blow winning games, He doesn't help us get to that winning position at all. If we can't get there, he's absolutely worthless to us, however more valuable to a team that does put him in a position to shut the door. Meaning we should be able to get players which are more valuable to us for the future. I mean we basically picked up Sherrill off the scrap-heap as I had never really seen him before this season, I'm sure it won't be extremely difficult for us to make another find of his caliber when we are ready to challenge the big dogs in the division. Which best case will be when he's in his mid-late 30's...best case.

I don't get it, you question me knowing Tex... then you say "fact is if Tex"? I'm missing something here. Question my knowledge, then go ahead and do the same thing. You'll find real quick that stuff doesn't work here.

Back to my point, which seems to have gone way over your head. Winning matters to Tex. Finishing .500 means something with him, thats as far as I'm going.

As for picking up Sherrill off the scrap heap. Were you here in the offseason? Does the name Erik Bedard ring a bell? Because you were ignorant to the fact of not knowing who sherrill is in no way is a determinant of his ability and or performance. You say as though finding a closer is so easy, when I challenge you to name one that has performed at an all star level for us over the past 10 seasons.

[BaltimoreGhost]

:noinsider:

I'm going to leave that one alone

Don't get me wrong, in no way am I trying to imply that Sherrill is worthless in general, just closers period are worthless to a club that doesn't get to the ninth inning with a lead. In a perfect world I'd absolutely love to see him make a home here as he has really won me over at being great at what he does and seems to be great for the locker room.

However, baseball is a business, and the Orioles have been floundering in that business for a decade+. In my eyes, our team would be much better served by robbing another organization blind for his services so that we could one day compete in the AL East.

Much like Jeff Conine, Mike Bordick or B.J. Surhoff, I'd also love to see Sherrill in a position to play in the postseason as he deserves it and even seems to excel with more pressure put on him. He's not getting there with us anytime soon.

It's a win-win situation for everyone involved.

[BaltimoreGhost]

I don't get it, you question me knowing Tex... then you say "fact is if Tex"? I'm missing something here. Question my knowledge, then go ahead and do the same thing. You'll find real quick that stuff doesn't work here.

Back to my point, which seems to have gone way over your head. Winning matters to Tex. Finishing .500 means something with him, thats as far as I'm going.

As for picking up Sherrill off the scrap heap. Were you here in the offseason? Does the name Erik Bedard ring a bell? Because you were ignorant to the fact of not knowing who sherrill is in no way is a determinant of his ability and or performance. You say as though finding a closer is so easy, when I challenge you to name one that has performed at an all star level for us over the past 10 seasons.

Dude...where do I start.
First, I'm not doing the same thing in saying that I know what Teixeira's thought process will be...KEY word in the quote is "IF". IF Tex choses Baltimore next season, a .500 record has nothing to do with the impending direction of the club. If we have a .500 record with a bunch of 30-year olds, how does that show that we are on the way up? To me and anyone with sense, it shows that this team is peaking at a .500 record.

Why would anyone choose a peaking .500 team if your trying to win when you could go play for the up-and-up Rays where Pena could DH. Theres plenty more options including staying in Atlanta.

I'm not saying what Teixeira's thought process will be, just making a simple logical deduction. If he comes here, the largest selling point for our GM will be his hometown team. This team to anyone with baseball knowledge is years for contending with teams like the Red Sox and Rays. Teix knows that, and our GM knows that. The biggest difference is depth. We have a few injuries to our staff, and look at the difference in our pitching. We need to trade veterans that won't be any good to us in the next couple years and give our fans, players and even potential players like Tex, hope that we will improve greatly over the next 2 or 3 years.

Secondly, By no means was Sherrill a headlining name in the deal for Bedard. The big guys that we got were Adam Jones and Chris Tillman. Sherrill was said to be a stop-gap at closer and later to be traded. Of course my knowledge of him has nothing to do with his performance, however my point is that closers are not extremely hard to find.

Thirdly, you ask me to name a closer we've had that has been all-star potential in the last ten years...You have to first take into account that Sherrill was mainly chosen because we had no other reps, and secondly because of a stat that is largley based on team success rather than individual (just like wins). Secondly, B.J. Ryan was a better statistical closer that Sherrill and a much better pitcher in his prime here in Baltimore. However his team did not win close games, as no other Baltimore team has in the past ten years. No position in baseball turns no-names into household names more than closer and theres a reason for that.

[elsid]

Don't get me wrong, in no way am I trying to imply that Sherrill is worthless in general, just closers period are worthless to a club that doesn't get to the ninth inning with a lead. In a perfect world I'd absolutely love to see him make a home here as he has really won me over at being great at what he does and seems to be great for the locker room.

However, baseball is a business, and the Orioles have been floundering in that business for a decade+. In my eyes, our team would be much better served by robbing another organization blind for his services so that we could one day compete in the AL East.

Much like Jeff Conine, Mike Bordick or B.J. Surhoff, I'd also love to see Sherrill in a position to play in the postseason as he deserves it and even seems to excel with more pressure put on him. He's not getting there with us anytime soon.

It's a win-win situation for everyone involved.

I have no issue with trading my brother. I have stated that several times.

[Ned from York]

OldFan, smart GMs know that with the advent of the wild card it isn't so taboo to trade within the division as it used to be. If a division rival gives you the best deal, you take it because of the wild card.

[SevisonJN]

Dude...where do I start.
First, I'm not doing the same thing in saying that I know what Teixeira's thought process will be...KEY word in the quote is "IF". IF Tex choses Baltimore next season, a .500 record has nothing to do with the impending direction of the club. If we have a .500 record with a bunch of 30-year olds, how does that show that we are on the way up? To me and anyone with sense, it shows that this team is peaking at a .500 record.

Why would anyone choose a peaking .500 team if your trying to win when you could go play for the up-and-up Rays where Pena could DH. Theres plenty more options including staying in Atlanta.

I'm not saying what Teixeira's thought process will be, just making a simple logical deduction. If he comes here, the largest selling point for our GM will be his hometown team. This team to anyone with baseball knowledge is years for contending with teams like the Red Sox and Rays. Teix knows that, and our GM knows that. The biggest difference is depth. We have a few injuries to our staff, and look at the difference in our pitching. We need to trade veterans that won't be any good to us in the next couple years and give our fans, players and even potential players like Tex, hope that we will improve greatly over the next 2 or 3 years.

Secondly, By no means was Sherrill a headlining name in the deal for Bedard. The big guys that we got were Adam Jones and Chris Tillman. Sherrill was said to be a stop-gap at closer and later to be traded. Of course my knowledge of him has nothing to do with his performance, however my point is that closers are not extremely hard to find.

Thirdly, you ask me to name a closer we've had that has been all-star potential in the last ten years...You have to first take into account that Sherrill was mainly chosen because we had no other reps, and secondly because of a stat that is largley based on team success rather than individual (just like wins). Secondly, B.J. Ryan was a better statistical closer that Sherrill and a much better pitcher in his prime here in Baltimore. However his team did not win close games, as no other Baltimore team has in the past ten years. No position in baseball turns no-names into household names more than closer and theres a reason for that.

Yeah, Seattle threw in Sherrill! :rolleyes:

I would say that the Butler and Mickolio were throw ins, but without Sherrill, Bedard would still be an Oriole. It wouldn't suprise me if the Orioles had access to another top 10 prospect, but chose Sherrill instead. Chosing Sherrill was a very good decision.

[BaltimoreGhost]

I have no issue with trading my brother. I have stated that several times.

Yeah, I just typed up stuff off the cuff and realized my words may have been misconstrued from their intent.

Admittedly, the 'scrap heap' part was a bit much, but i was just trying to imply that the guy while outstanding this year, was relatively unknown before this season, if he had not of been, Buster Olney would have no story.

As Buster wrote in his blog:


He was 26 years old before a Major League Baseball organization signed him, made his major-league debut at age 27, and at age 31, the Orioles left-hander found himself on the field at Yankee Stadium, as an American League All-Star.

Its not like he was a top-100 prospect. He is reaping the rewards of persevering to come out of relative obscurity to succeed on a national stage and deservedly so. But he needs a ring and we need some prospects. Obviously we shouldn't just dump him to dump him though, he is definitely worth more than his statistical value. As stats don't account for the positive effect that he has had on the clubhouse and for the general image of the team.

[Mike B]

Uhm, look at his numbers....Sherrill is not that good. In a good bullpen he would be a late inning setup man brought in to get lefties out. As a closer he's barely adequate. Forget the saves...look at the peripheral numbers and his ERA. The Orioles should be absolutely looking to deal him now if his stock is high in some corners of the league.

I love when people ignore the obvious when trying to make a point that backs up their point. You can read the peripheral all you want, the job of a closer is to get 3 outs before the other team ties or goes ahead and Sherrill has done an excellent job of that. With all due respect, that can not be ignored.

[bigbird]

Yeah, Seattle threw in Sherrill! :rolleyes:

I would say that the Butler and Mickolio were throw ins, but without Sherrill, Bedard would still be an Oriole. It wouldn't suprise me if the Orioles had access to another top 10 prospect, but chose Sherrill instead. Chosing Sherrill was a very good decision.


There are a lot of baseball people who like Butler more than Tillman.... I also thing that the front office demanded Sherrill as part of the deal from the get go.

[ChaosLex]

There are a lot of baseball people who like Butler more than Tillman.... I also thing that the front office demanded Sherrill as part of the deal from the get go.

I've heard this as well.

[NoVaO]

There are a lot of baseball people who like Butler more than Tillman.... I also thing that the front office demanded Sherrill as part of the deal from the get go.


I've heard this as well.

Care to name names as to who would have this opinion? Or was it from insider type people that can't have their identification revealed?

I don't see how any front office person would have Butler rated ahead of Tillman.

[ChaosLex]

Care to name names as to who would have this opinion? Or was it from insider type people that can't have their identification revealed?

I don't see how any front office person would have Butler rated ahead of Tillman.

Runs2the1Show was my source for that information.

[bej6789]

Randy Myers, BJ Ryan, Chris Ray, Jorge Julio....

I see one, over the last 10 seasons. Randy Myers last season in Baltimore was 1997...

BJ Ryan was a fantastic closer, and we've been trying to replace him ever since. Sherrills under control for another 3 seasons, while also being incredibly affordable. Last year was more than awful in terms of the back end of our bullpen, I'd gladly hang onto Sherrill.

[JohnnyK27]

I see one, over the last 10 seasons. Randy Myers last season in Baltimore was 1997...

BJ Ryan was a fantastic closer, and we've been trying to replace him ever since. Sherrills under control for another 3 seasons, while also being incredibly affordable. Last year was more than awful in terms of the back end of our bullpen, I'd gladly hang onto Sherrill.

I'm not suggesting that you give Sherrill away. But closer is the least of our problems. This team has more holes than swiss cheese. None of Mora, Huff, Hernandez, Millar, (our pile of scrap heap SS's), 3/5 of our current rotation, Walker or Bradford & IMO Roberts,Scott, & Sherrill will be at or near peak performance when this club is playoff bound.

Other than Guthrie, Jones , & Markakis anyone should be available for the right price. I really dont like the term overpaying for Sherrill. I say trade him if you get a good offer.

[Old#5fan]

Using your logic and speaking in your terms...If you win the trade, your division rival is worse for the wear and you've double-whammied them by not only detracting thier situation, but improving your own. Why have a defeatist attitude and assume that you will fair worse than the other team in the long run. In the current thread we are discussing trading Sherrill. Why not lend Sherrill to the Sawks or Yanks or even Rays for a few years in return for an everyday position player or starter that can help the team for years to come.
No, not all prospects pan out, but you have to have some faith in your scouting department if you're going to rebuild.

So you lose your closer to get what? Maybe if I knew what they could get I might be more receptive but right now I know that Sherrill won't be easy to replace. I am sorry but I was not a Chris Ray fan before his TJ surgery and I don't think he is good enough to close games. I want somebody more reliable and who has better command. Ray just reminds me of a mediocre Triple A pitcher probably better suited for a setup guy who tries to impersonate a major league closer and wasn't very good at doing so.

Sherrill is much better than Ray, its that simple. I do know that no matter what kind of player we get in return Sherrill is going to help Boston or the Yankees even moreso than he is helping us because they are better teams. Again, I think trading to a division rival is dangerous and not a good idea unless in a complete full scale-tear it down and rebuild mode. In that case you are conceding you are going to be terrible and throwing away next season and possibly the one after that or even more. I think this team has at least shown that they are much more competitive this year and Sherrill is a big reason for that. Having a lousy closer is demoralizing to a team and the converse is also true. Sherrill has been a big morale booster. If you want to trade that away than that should just be a starting point for a full scale house cleaning. I just don't think that is necessary. I think guys like Sherrill are positive additions and he is worth every penny of his salary unlike total duds like Danys Baez who was totally worthless.

[JohnnyK27]

So you lose your closer to get what? Maybe if I knew what they could get I might be more receptive but right now I know that Sherrill won't be easy to replace. I am sorry but I was not a Chris Ray fan before his TJ surgury and I don't think he is good enough to close games. I want somebody more reliable and who has better command. Sherrill is better at that its that simple. I do know that no matter what kind of player we get in return Sherrill is going to help Boston or the Yankees even moreso than he is helping us because they are better teams. Again, I think trading to a division rival is dangerous and not a good idea unless in a complete full scale-tear it down and rebuild mode. In that case you are conceding you are going to be terrible and throwing away next season and possibly the one after that or even more. I think this team has at least shown that they are much more competitive this year and Sherrill is a big reason for that. Having a lousy closer is demoralizing to a team and the converse is also true. Sherrill has been a big morale booster.

I think J Johnson could do the job. But lets face it Sherrill saving 40 games for a team that wins 85 is less valuable than the 2 to 3 players that will contribute when the Orioles play a game in September that meaning 3-5 years from now.

[Old#5fan]

I think J Johnson could do the job. But lets face it Sherrill saving 40 games for a team that wins 85 is less valuable than the 2 to 3 players that will contribute when the Orioles play a game in September that meaning 3-5 years from now.

I don't disagree but they don't need to come from the Yankees, Red Sox or Rays. There are plenty of other suitors out there, so why take a chance that you have to face Sherrill regularly for the next three years and your prospects don't pan out? Trading Bedard to Seattle and outside the division was another huge factor in that deal that was a positive in the Orioles favor. No reason why that pattern cannot be emulated with Sherrill. To me any divison rival offer would have to be a complete fleecing in the Orioles favor or I wouldn't even consider it.

[SevisonJN]

I don't disagree but they don't need to come from the Yankees, Red Sox or Rays. There are plenty of other suitors out there, so why take a chance that you have to face Sherrill regularly for the next three years and your prospects don't pan out? Trading Bedard to Seattle and outside the division was another huge factor in that deal that was a positive in the Orioles favor. No reason why that pattern cannot be emulated with Sherrill. To me any divison rival offer would have to be a complete fleecing in the Orioles favor or I wouldn't even consider it.

You take the best package, I do not care who it comes from. You can really hurt teams in the long term by taking their best prospects.

[JohnnyK27]

I don't disagree but they don't need to come from the Yankees, Red Sox or Rays. There are plenty of other suitors out there, so why take a chance that you have to face Sherrill regularly for the next three years and your prospects don't pan out? Trading Bedard to Seattle and outside the division was another huge factor in that deal that was a positive in the Orioles favor. No reason why that pattern cannot be emulated with Sherrill. To me any divison rival offer would have to be a complete fleecing in the Orioles favor or I wouldn't even consider it.

I say it doesn't matter who you trade with as long as we get the best set of players. Bedard will be traded by Seattle to whomever when he is healthy again. So Seattle may trade him to the Yankees or Red Sox in the offseason.

In Sherrill's case ..... Lets say we trade him to Milwaukee (for a offer lesser than the Yanks or Red Sox are offering. After making a run at this year the Brewers unload) They trade him to a AL East team. What do we accomplish?
Trading to the Yankees or Sox may strengthen them in the short term & hurt them in the long term.

[Old#5fan]

:cussing:
I say it doesn't matter who you trade with as long as we get the best set of players. Bedard will be traded by Seattle to whomever when he is healthy again. So Seattle may trade him to the Yankees or Red Sox in the offseason.

In Sherrill's case ..... Lets say we trade him to Milwaukee (for a offer lesser than the Yanks or Red Sox are offering. After making a run at this year the Brewers unload) They trade him to a AL East team. What do we accomplish?
Trading to the Yankees or Sox may strengthen them in the short term & hurt them in the long term.



I totallly and vehemently disagree with your last statement. Nobody ever is going to "hurt" the Yankees or Redsox long or short run. NEVER! That is why you never give them anything. I cannot believe the logic here regarding this. It is just dumbfounding to the empth degree!These aren't normal teams with limited payrolls we are talking about here! Your theory might have some weight if the Yankees and Boston were comparable (smaller market teams) to the Orioles but obviously they are NOT! So you never want to "help" them get better, short term, long term or EVER~!#@:cussing: and you sure as all get out aren't going to hurt them ever either.

How in the heck do you think the two Evil Empires have remained at the top so long? They take or rape all the talent they can year after year. You really think taking a prospect or two from them will "hurt" them in the long run????? You gotta be kidding me or joking. They just go out and sign the highest priced and most talented replacement out there. Prospects mean nothing to them. That will never change until they put some sort of salary cap in place and the union won't allow it. Sorry, but trading to them is like cutting yourself in the throat while getting the services of a doctor for free.

[JohnnyK27]

:cussing:



I totallly and vehemently disagree with your last statement. Nobody ever is going to "hurt" the Yankees or Redsox long or short run. NEVER! That is why you never give them anything. I cannot believe the logic here regarding this. It is just dumbfounding to the empth degree!These aren't normal teams with limited payrolls we are talking about here! Your theory might have some weight if the Yankees and Boston were comparable (smaller market teams) to the Orioles but obviously they are NOT! So you never want to "help" them get better, short term, long term or EVER~!#@:cussing: and you sure as all get out aren't going to hurt them ever either.

How in the heck do you think the two Evil Empires have remained at the top so long? They take or rape all the talent they can year after year. You really think taking a prospect or two from them will "hurt" them in the long run????? You gotta be kidding me or joking. They just go out and sign the highest priced and most talented replacement out there. Prospects mean nothing to them. That will never change until they put some sort of salary cap in place and the union won't allow it. Sorry, but trading to them is like cutting yourself in the throat while getting the services of a doctor for free.

You dont believe they would regret facing guys like Hughes or Kennedy in the future if they become the players they are projected to be??? Beside while Sherrill has done the job this year other than the week he blew 2 or 3 gams in a row he puts a lot of guys on base & its a high wire act. I believe that sooner or later that type of continued problem will be a detriment. Just my opinion.

[Old#5fan]

You dont believe they would regret facing guys like Hughes or Kennedy in the future if they become the players they are projected to be??? Beside while Sherrill has done the job this year other than the week he blew 2 or 3 gams in a row he puts a lot of guys on base & its a high wire act. I believe that sooner or later that type of continued problem will be a detriment. Just my opinion.

I don't totally disagree with you but if these prospects pan out, they may become FA's and the damn Yankees or Sox will overpay and steal them back anyway! Furthermore, I also think Boston uses Sherrill as a setup guy and I see him being lights out in that role. He will become their replacement for Timlin, and of course the Yankees need a replacement for Rivera and Sherrill would be a good fit there as well either as a setup guy or closer. I just shudder at the thought of helping either of them. So why not just avoid them entirely? It just makes good sense to me. Trade him to the NL like they did Tejada.

[ChaosLex]

You dont believe they would regret facing guys like Hughes or Kennedy in the future if they become the players they are projected to be??? Beside while Sherrill has done the job this year other than the week he blew 2 or 3 gams in a row he puts a lot of guys on base & its a high wire act. I believe that sooner or later that type of continued problem will be a detriment. Just my opinion.

Just so you know, it's the opinion of MOST posters on this board.

[Old#5fan]

Just so you know, it's the opinion of MOST posters on this board.

What is? Unless there was a poll I missed what are you talking about?:confused:

I don't think there was a poll that indicated the majority of Oriole fans here are not satisfied with Sherrill as the closer this season or think he will eventually fall apart. I also would think that most would agree that Sherrill has far surpassed anything Chris Ray would have done had he not gotten injured. Who cares if Sherrill has allowed runners as long as they don't score and he gets the save? That is all that counts in the end.

[rhall]

:cussing:



I totallly and vehemently disagree with your last statement. Nobody ever is going to "hurt" the Yankees or Redsox long or short run. NEVER! That is why you never give them anything. I cannot believe the logic here regarding this. It is just dumbfounding to the empth degree!These aren't normal teams with limited payrolls we are talking about here! Your theory might have some weight if the Yankees and Boston were comparable (smaller market teams) to the Orioles but obviously they are NOT! So you never want to "help" them get better, short term, long term or EVER~!#@:cussing: and you sure as all get out aren't going to hurt them ever either.

How in the heck do you think the two Evil Empires have remained at the top so long? They take or rape all the talent they can year after year. You really think taking a prospect or two from them will "hurt" them in the long run????? You gotta be kidding me or joking. They just go out and sign the highest priced and most talented replacement out there. Prospects mean nothing to them. That will never change until they put some sort of salary cap in place and the union won't allow it. Sorry, but trading to them is like cutting yourself in the throat while getting the services of a doctor for free.

If you follow this logic all the way through, then it makes even more sense to take a trade package from them if it's the best one available. If the Evil Empires will be very strong every year regardless of whether we trade them Sherrill (because they'll just sign some big $ free agents), then we are only hurting ourselves by taking them out of the realm of possible trade partners. They have nothing to lose, and we have possibilities from their farm system to lose.

[glenn__davis]

It is just dumbfounding to the empth degree!

All the way to the empth degree, huh?

I've not even sure where that is -- is it like going straight to ludicrous speed?