Manny Ramirez on verge of becoming a Marlin

[ChaosLex]

I :cussing: you not. Wow... just wow...

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/manny-ramirez-2.html

[twoBshorty]

And then we have this from WCVB in Boston:


The Boston Red Sox plan to pick up Manny Ramirez's $20 million option and will try to trade him in November, unless the team is blown away by a blockbuster offer before the deadline.

Sources told SportsCenter 5's Mike Lynch that the Sox will try to prevent Ramirez from signing with the New York Yankees or another rival as a free agent.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/sports/17042677/detail.html

This would be bad news for me, as I told a friend I would eat a sheet of notebook paper if the Red Sox picked up Manny's option. I hope he forgets what I said.

[Big Mac]

Nice find Chaos Lex.

Now the really question is: what's the over/under on the number of threads on this that will be mistakenly posted in the O's talk forum?

I think there was 4 Pudge threads posted there.

[RShack]

Now the really question is: what's the over/under on the number of threads on this that will be mistakenly posted in the O's talk forum?

I think there was 4 Pudge threads posted there.
Posting it once wasn't enough, he posted it over there too.

[Big Mac]

Posting it once wasn't enough, he posted it over there too.

Yeah, but he didn't start a new thread so no big deal in my book.

[ChaosLex]

Posting it once wasn't enough, he posted it over there too.

Huh? I didn't start a separate topic on the main forum.

[ChaosLex]

Yeah, but he didn't start a new thread so no big deal in my book.

Thank you. I like the cut of your jib, my friend. :D

As for you RShack. :p

[Boy Howdy]

Isn't "on the verge" of being traded sort of like on the verge of being pregnant, or or the verge of quitting smoking, or on the verge of winning the lottery...

[RShack]

Isn't "on the verge" of being traded sort of like on the verge of being pregnant, or or the verge of quitting smoking, or on the verge of winning the lottery...
But it was posted on a trade RUMORS site, so it must be true.
Just ask BRob, he's playing for the Cubs now, and that site is where we heard about it...

[Big Mac]

By the way, Manny is in the Sox lineup tonight.

[Sports Guy]

But it was posted on a trade RUMORS site, so it must be true.
Just ask BRob, he's playing for the Cubs now, and that site is where we heard about it...

Actually, it was posted by Baseball Prospectus, ESPN and many others...MLBTR is just putting all the news together.

If it bothers you so much, why in the hell do you read the threads?

You come into them and just bring misery and ignorance to them.

[Camden_yardbird]

Trades like this are how Boston will always stay ahead of the Orioles. If this goes down they will get an absolutely fabulous return. Hermida and Stanton without a third prospect is better than the two draft picks they would have gotten if he walked.

Good teams aren't afraid to trade their top hitter - Hall of Fame hitter - when they are in the middle of the playoff race if it will improve the quality of the organization. Most people around here are afraid to trade Huff when the Orioles are limping their way to .500.

[GeorgiaBird]

If its a 3-way with the Pirates with Bay going to BOS and Herminda going to PIT, well played to both Boston and Pittsburgh.

[Camden_yardbird]

If its a 3-way with the Pirates with Bay going to BOS and Herminda going to PIT, well played to both Boston and Pittsburgh.

I would take it, but I would think the secondary prospects could swing that trade too.

[paulcoates]

John Perotto reports that discussions on a three-way trade between the Red Sox, Marlins and Pirates could also include Jack Wilson and John Grabow.

Manny Ramirez to Florida, Jason Bay to Boston and Jeremy Hermida to Pittsburgh would be the foundation of the deal. Perotto, who said earlier this evening that a deal sending Manny to Florida was on the verge of getting done, doesn't follow through with that here. However, he says that talks are alive and that multiple variations have been discussed. In one version, the Red Sox would get Wilson from the Pirates and give up Jed Lowrie. In another, the Marlins would acquire Grabow in exchange for pitching prospect Ryan Tucker. Jul. 30 - 9:26 pm et

[Camden_yardbird]

Pirates give up Bay, Wilson, Grabow
Pirates get Hermida, Tucker, Lowrie


I could get on board with that.

[PoorMike]

Isn't "on the verge" of being traded sort of like on the verge of being pregnant, or or the verge of quitting smoking, or on the verge of winning the lottery...

Did one report (and I'm sorry, I don't rememebr which) say that all that was left was for Manny to approve it? If that's the case, I'd say that qualifies as being "on the verge".

I do agree with you to some extent though: both with trades and with the steroid stuff last year, writers filled filled volumes with non-stories about stuff that 'could' happen.

[minnesotaoriole]

All that is left is that Manny accepts and all physicals are passed. www.rotoworld.com Will Carrol of Baseball Prospectus first reported the deal! Three way with the Pirates with Jason Bay to RED SOX

[Big Mac]

All that is left is that Manny accepts and all physicals are passed. www.rotoworld.com Will Carrol of Baseball Prospectus first reported the deal! Three way with the Pirates with Jason Bay to RED SOX

This perfectly sets up Ramon to the Marlins. Looks like they are going for it and Pudge is now off the market, the asking price for Molina is reportedly extremely high.

Ramon to the Fish makes too mich sense.

[Methodology]

Just heard on Boston radio that the deal is "very unlikely" to happen.

Also Peter Gammons was on ESPN and said he had not heard of any sort of deal and does not expect there to be a deal in place. (could just be his Sox homerism)

Edit: NESN also just had a report that said nothing is in place at this point and a deal is "unlikely"... Who knows though cause after this do they even want Manny around?

[PoorMike]

Just heard on Boston radio that the deal is "very unlikely" to happen.

Also Peter Gammons was on ESPN and said he had not heard of any sort of deal and does not expect there to be a deal in place. (could just be his Sox homerism)

Edit: NESN also just had a report that said nothing is in place at this point and a deal is "unlikely"... Who knows though cause after this do they even want Manny around?


Buster Olney just said that Gammons thinks the deal is unlikely....but then Olney said that Olney himself thinks it will happen because he thinks the relationship between Manny and the front office is beyond repair.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Palm Beach Post (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2008/07/30/0730ramirez.html) is saying a tentative deal is in place.


The Marlins will get Ramirez for Hermida, right-hander Ryan Tucker and two other prospects, with those four players being flipped to Pittsburgh for outfielder Jason Bay and left-hander John Grabow.

The Red Sox will send the Marlins enough cash to cover the remainder of Ramirez contract, as well as an unnamed prospect.

Pittsburgh gets Hermida and two prospects - two from Florida and one from Boston. One of the Marlins' prospects is believed to be Tucker.

[BlackWillow]

Isn't "on the verge" of being traded sort of like on the verge of being pregnant, or or the verge of quitting smoking, or on the verge of winning the lottery...

I am on the verge of believing this tread to be true. :D

[twoBshorty]

Will Carroll is the guy who laid out all the odds of Johan Santana going to various teams and his percentages added up to 110. He said that deal was done, too, and it happened 6 weeks later and to a completely different team. Color me totally unconvinced.

Things complicating this deal:

1. Apparently Boras has heard nothing about it, meaning the NTC actually hasn't been waived and Manny could just squash the whole thing. Epstein would probably have a stroke at this point.
2. Pirates ownership is terrible and will probably get cold feet and back out of trading Bay because they didn't get an astronomical return.
3. Marlins + money = trouble
4. Boston seems to have this compulsive need to keep tweaking and complicating things until they're juggling 80 moving parts at once and the deal collapses under its own weight.

I think it'll fall apart at the last minute.

[Saintbird]

Isn't "on the verge" of being traded sort of like on the verge of being pregnant, or or the verge of quitting smoking, or on the verge of winning the lottery...

Not exactly I think what he's trying to say here is that they've almost completed the trade I think

[Saintbird]

Just heard on Boston radio that the deal is "very unlikely" to happen.

Also Peter Gammons was on ESPN and said he had not heard of any sort of deal and does not expect there to be a deal in place. (could just be his Sox homerism)

Edit: NESN also just had a report that said nothing is in place at this point and a deal is "unlikely"... Who knows though cause after this do they even want Manny around?


I heard it on baseball tonight from Buster Olney. He said they're discssing a deal of Manny going to the Fish for three young players. (I'm assuming that means prospects) If this deal went through I think it would be a steal for the Red Sox IMO.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Will Carroll is the guy who laid out all the odds of Johan Santana going to various teams and his percentages added up to 110. He said that deal was done, too, and it happened 6 weeks later and to a completely different team. Color me totally unconvinced.

Tony said a deal was done with the Cubs for Roberts, and it was from high-up sources.

Sometimes things break down when it comes to trade rumors. That's no reason to attack the source.

[RShack]

Did we have the annual "Manny and BOS are fed up with each other" noise-a-thon last year? Or did we skip a year. (I can't remember.)

[Crazysilver03]

Did we have the annual "Manny and BOS are fed up with each other" noise-a-thon last year? Or did we skip a year. (I can't remember.)

Last year was commotion free.

[Ofanslikepain]

Not sure why the Marlins would prefer to trade for Manny when with what they are giving up they could just turn around and get Bay. He is just as a good a hitter and less of a headache. If the difference is the money that the Red Sox would be throwing into the deal then it is just another reflection how teams with money have an unfair advantage in baseball. I hope this deal falls through and the Red Sox are stuck with him and only get draft picks for him. For some reason I dont see that happening to them. They never seem to get screwed over.

[TyCobb]

Not sure why the Marlins would prefer to trade for Manny when with what they are giving up they could just turn around and get Bay. He is just as a good a hitter and less of a headache. If the difference is the money that the Red Sox would be throwing into the deal then it is just another reflection how teams with money have an unfair advantage in baseball. I hope this deal falls through and the Red Sox are stuck with him and only get draft picks for him. For some reason I dont see that happening to them. They never seem to get screwed over.

The Fish have this kid Maybin who is going to be the starting CF for them next season. Cody Ross is out hitting Hermida this year and will be moving to RF (guess).

The Fish will get 2 draft picks. They also look pretty sweet to win the East with Manny on the team.

[Methodology]

I also thought the Fish would want Manny cause they are trying to get a new ballpark and what is better for promotion than having one of the best/well known Dominican stars in Miami where there is a large Dominican population.

I could see the Fish possibly resigning Manny after the season if they can agree on a fair deal because Manny would be great promotion for the Marlins.

[TyCobb]

I also thought the Fish would want Manny cause they are trying to get a new ballpark and what is better for promotion than having one of the best/well known Dominican stars in Miami where there is a large Dominican population.

I could see the Fish possibly resigning Manny after the season if they can agree on a fair deal because Manny would be great promotion for the Marlins.

Manny at least tell you like it is....

He is going the highest bidder, period.

I think this move is to get draft picks and help win this year. Hermida seems to be expendable since they have other outfielders.

[Sanfran327]

Here's a good site to monitor the situation from the Sox POV:

http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/

[Sanfran327]

Wouldn't it make sense for the Sox and Rox to just swap Manny and Holliday? Here's why: the Sox could afford to pay the remainder of Manny's 2008 salary and pick up Holiday's contract. Both contracts expire at the end of this season. Here's what woudl make it work: the Sox could throw Lowrie into the deal, essentially trading their SS of the future for their LF of the future. Lowrie could play 2B for the Rockies, giving Colorado one of the best MI combos in baseball. This could work if the deal was pending an extension for Holliday. I think it's kind of a no-brainer since the Rockies don't think they can afford to extend Holliday and they'd have Lowrie for a number of years.

[Methodology]

Wouldn't it make sense for the Sox and Rox to just swap Manny and Holliday? Here's why: the Sox could afford to pay the remainder of Manny's 2008 salary and pick up Holiday's contract. Both contracts expire at the end of this season. Here's what woudl make it work: the Sox could throw Lowrie into the deal, essentially trading their SS of the future for their LF of the future. Lowrie could play 2B for the Rockies, giving Colorado one of the best MI combos in baseball. This could work if the deal was pending an extension for Holliday. I think it's kind of a no-brainer since the Rockies don't think they can afford to extend Holliday and they'd have Lowrie for a number of years.

Don't the Rockies have a plethora of MI prospects in their organization already?

[Sanfran327]

Don't the Rockies have a plethora of MI prospects in their organization already?

If they do, then I'm not sure why they keep sending Clint Barmes and Jeff Baker out to 2b every day.

[Goop]

I really hope that Griffey can get a shot at a WS ring. I've always liked him and think he's a class act.

Just think, if he could have stayed healthy, he would be the home run king.

Edit: Sorry, this was supposed to go in the Griffey thread. Must have clicked the wrong one.

[Camden_yardbird]

Its being reported that the Rays will not trade Brignac either. Add him to the list of Price, Davis, and Hellickson. Its clear the Rays are not really serious about adding any help to their team. I know some of their prospects are amazing and wouldn't expect them to trade guys like Price or maybe even Davis but they are taking a lot of the table. They are going to have to take some chances if they want this season to go anywhere, and they do not seem willing to do it.

[TyCobb]

Its being reported that the Rays will not trade Brignac either. Add him to the list of Price, Davis, and Hellickson. Its clear the Rays are not really serious about adding any help to their team. I know some of their prospects are amazing and wouldn't expect them to trade guys like Price or maybe even Davis but they are taking a lot of the table. They are going to have to take some chances if they want this season to go anywhere, and they do not seem willing to do it.

I think the Rays can win the division without making a move. The addition of Price to the Rotation is going to be like trading for an ace.

[Spoonless]

I can totally see them working hard to get this deal done, and Manny vetoing it just to spite the Red Sox's FO.

[Mark Carver]

Wouldn't it make sense for the Sox and Rox to just swap Manny and Holliday? Here's why: the Sox could afford to pay the remainder of Manny's 2008 salary and pick up Holiday's contract. Both contracts expire at the end of this season. Here's what woudl make it work: the Sox could throw Lowrie into the deal, essentially trading their SS of the future for their LF of the future. Lowrie could play 2B for the Rockies, giving Colorado one of the best MI combos in baseball. This could work if the deal was pending an extension for Holliday. I think it's kind of a no-brainer since the Rockies don't think they can afford to extend Holliday and they'd have Lowrie for a number of years.

Holliday (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/colorado-rockies.html) is signed through 2009, at $13.5m. He'll also only have 5 years of ML service time at the end of the 2008 season, so, even if not already signed, he's not a free agent eligible at the end of the year.

[Crazysilver03]

The Fish have this kid Maybin who is going to be the starting CF for them next season. Cody Ross is out hitting Hermida this year and will be moving to RF (guess).

The Fish will get 2 draft picks. They also look pretty sweet to win the East with Manny on the team.

FWIW, Manny said that for him to waive his NTC, the team would have to decline his option and decline arbitration.

[TyCobb]

FWIW, Manny said that for him to waive his NTC, the team would have to decline his option and decline arbitration.

Why can't he just decline arbitration? That doesn't make any sense for him to say he doesn't want the other team to offer arbitration.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I think the Rays can win the division without making a move. The addition of Price to the Rotation is going to be like trading for an ace.

Unless he struggles.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Why can't he just decline arbitration? That doesn't make any sense for him to say he doesn't want the other team to offer arbitration.

You're forgetting, Manny isn't exactly Billy Beane, you know?

[GeorgiaBird]

RE: The Rays it is a tough call because they are a year ahead of schedule, and have a bright future ahead of them. So it makes sense not to over pay. But then again given how badly they have sucked their entire history, how can they not go for it?

I would not believe that Brignac is absolutely off limits. But he is not going for a guy like Adam Dunn.


Why can't he just decline arbitration? That doesn't make any sense for him to say he doesn't want the other team to offer arbitration.

I guess without arb teams would not lose draft picks, so it might make him more enticing and therefore give him more bidders? Just a guess.

[GeorgiaBird]

You're forgetting, Manny isn't exactly Billy Beane, you know?

No but his agent, one S. Boras, is pretty smart.

[BaltimoreTerp]

No but his agent, one S. Boras, is pretty smart.

Either he wasn't doing the talking (my thought), or something is wrong with Boras' thinking. Why make it harder for your client to get out of a place he doesn't want to be?

[GeorgiaBird]

Either he wasn't doing the talking (my thought), or something is wrong with Boras' thinking. Why make it harder for your client to get out of a place he doesn't want to be?

Because I don't think Manny really cares if he is in Boston for the next month or so. I don't think he cares one way or the other if he is traded.

What Manny does care about is becoming a free agent in November, and getting as much as possible at that point. And the assurance that someone will not pick up his option and not offer him arb (to make him more attractive to suitors) accomplishes that move. It seems like pretty smart thinking to me.

[TyCobb]

Because I don't think Manny really cares if he is in Boston for the next month or so. I don't think he cares one way or the other if he is traded.

What Manny does care about is becoming a free agent in November, and getting as much as possible at that point. And the assurance that someone will not pick up his option and not offer him arb (to make him more attractive to suitors) accomplishes that move. It seems like pretty smart thinking to me.

Mark my words.......someone will sign Manny even if they lose 2 draft picks.

[GeorgiaBird]

Mark my words.......someone will sign Manny even if they lose 2 draft picks.

I am not saying they will not. But hard to say whether or not the thought of losing 2 draft picks will keep some bidder gunshy, or keep out one player that would have created the bidding war Boras craves. I think it is a pretty shrewd request. But I was not trying to say that Manny would go hungry without.

[GeorgiaBird]

Is the deal dead?

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3512956&searchName=mlb_trade_deadline&campaign=rsssrch&source=mlb_trade_deadline&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3512956%26searchName% 3dmlb_trade_deadline%26campaign%3drsssrch%26source %3dmlb_trade_deadline


Yet another official with one of these three teams says the Manny-Bay deal is dead. In the aftermath, the teams involved seem unsure of what happened. The Pirates are blaming the Marlins. The Marlins are blaming the Pirates. And the Red Sox aren't too happy with either of them.

[Camden_yardbird]

Id like to see a quick last minute deal.

Sox get Bay and Grabow
Dodgers get Wilson and Manny
Pirates get Lowrie, Kemp, McDonald, something else.