Skins@Cowgirls

[Big Mac]

Redskins are up 17-10 at halftime.

Jason Campbell has looked very good so far, but the Redskins blew a big opportunity at the end of the 1st half.

They had the ball 1st and Goal and had to kick a field goal. They then let Dallas drive down inside the 30 with less than 2 minutes to go and kick a field goal.

This game should be 21-7 right now in my eyes.

[hammer310]

Go Campbell and Moss.

I have them on my fantasy team. I was pissed when Jason underthrew Moss.

The Skins D has looked very impressive.....As TO scores as I type this

[Malike]

I really hope Washington doesn't choke. In my twisted reality if the Skins beat the Boy's then the Giants have to move up in the power rankings after completely shutting down the Skins in week 1!

GO BIG BLUE!

[Sports Guy]

What an incredibly impressive win by Washington.

[Big Mac]

Campbell has really impressed me so far this season.

His completion percentage is over 65%.

He has thrown 6 TD's and 0 INT's.

[ccbird]

Very good win. Washington is better than I thought but this knocks Dallas down a notch or two in my book as well. That's not to slight what Washington did but Dallas to me looks no different than they have the last few years, which is a very good but vulnerable team.


If Philly goes in to Chicago and wins tonight I think it's hard to argue against the NFC East having the 4 best teams in the NFC and 4 of the top 6 or 7 teams in the whole league.

[Sports Guy]

Not sure why Dallas threw the ball so much today though.

Barber should have had a lot more touches.

[mweb]

I really hope Washington doesn't choke. In my twisted reality if the Skins beat the Boy's then the Giants have to move up in the power rankings after completely shutting down the Skins in week 1!

GO BIG BLUE!

Haha, I'm not sure what I'll do with my rankings after missing last week due to travel, but it's hard to say the Giants beat the same Skins team that we saw today, or even any of the other games.

Tremendous win for the Skins!

Maybe this is a lesson that we shouldn't overreact too much based on one game! Speaking of the Giants game of course, but you can also apply that to this game to a lesser extent.

Campbell really looks great, I've always had confidence in him, but wasn't sure how he's do in Zorn's offense, well the progression has been amazing. Santana Moss is showing how good he is when healthy and in a productive passing attack.

The defense did a very solid job as well, especially considering the injuries to Taylor and the secondary. Really shut down the Cowboys running game.

Considering the Skins were considered the weakest link of the NFC East, one really has to think of how good that division is. If the Eagles win tonight, all 4 teams will likely be in the top 8 of most power polls.

[bryanman8]

Not sure why Dallas threw the ball so much today though.

Barber should have had a lot more touches.
Maybe because Barber in his last three games against us has now rushed for 57 yards on 35 carries?

Skins OWN him.

What a win for Zorn! The man is a genius!

[Gulfbird44]

Ahhhh...love watching the FOX guys trip over their collective tongues after the Skins win today...must make Johnson sweat under that helmet head toupe he wears...

[mweb]

Not sure why Dallas threw the ball so much today though.

Barber should have had a lot more touches.

He should have got more touches, but other than one good run, he was totally shut down in his other 7 carries.

They also had two 2 minute drives where they moved the ball very well, and that was obviously all throwing.

[Sports Guy]

He should have got more touches, but other than one good run, he was totally shut down in his other 7 carries.

They also had two 2 minute drives where they moved the ball very well, and that was obviously all throwing.

Yea but he didn't have enough carries and that's the bottom line.

If anything, it eats more clock and perhaps opens up the passing game some more.

Poor game planning by the Cowboys in that regards IMO.

I think the Cowboys got cocky and just assumed they could throw the ball at will and do what they wanted through the air.

[mweb]

Very good win. Washington is better than I thought but this knocks Dallas down a notch or two in my book as well. That's not to slight what Washington did but Dallas to me looks no different than they have the last few years, which is a very good but vulnerable team.


If Philly goes in to Chicago and wins tonight I think it's hard to argue against the NFC East having the 4 best teams in the NFC and 4 of the top 6 or 7 teams in the whole league.

How about Campbell?;)

Yes, the NFC East looks great. You say you knock Dallas down a notch or two, well who would you have as the number 1 team right now? I think it's a tough call, and would still consider the Cowboys.

[bryanman8]

Question...is it possible the NFC East has the 4 best teams in all of the NFL? You all keep saying top 7 or 8 and w/e but I think that's underestimating it considering that I don't view the Pats and probably not the Colts that highly anymore either. Could these 4 teams be the best 4 in the NFL? Could they all win 10-11 games? That's gonna be TOUGH for whoever misses the playoffs from this group.

[Sports Guy]

How about Campbell?;)

Yes, the NFC East looks great. You say you knock Dallas down a notch or two, well who would you have as the number 1 team right now? I think it's a tough call, and would still consider the Cowboys.

I think the Giants should be on top right now although a win by the Eagles tonight certainly could vault them to #1.

[mweb]

Yea but he didn't have enough carries and that's the bottom line.

If anything, it eats more clock and perhaps opens up the passing game some more.

Poor game planning by the Cowboys in that regards IMO.

I think the Cowboys got cocky and just assumed they could throw the ball at will and do what they wanted through the air.

Yes, but Bryan's point is also right, for whatever reason, the Skins do very well against Barber.

[Sports Guy]

Question...is it possible the NFC East has the 4 best teams in all of the NFL? You all keep saying top 7 or 8 and w/e but I think that's underestimating it considering that I don't view the Pats and probably not the Colts that highly anymore either. Could these 4 teams be the best 4 in the NFL? Could they all win 10-11 games? That's gonna be TOUGH for whoever misses the playoffs from this group.

No..The Skins are good but they aren't the 4th best team in the league(although I guess you could make the argument that they are playing good enough to be the 4th best team RIGHT NOW...I just don't think that will continue).

I do think it is possible that the top 3 teams in the NFL are in the NFC East though.

It will be interesting to see how some of the AFC teams perform as the season goes on...The AFC has been ravaged by injuries, both in the season and in the preseason and it has been to some major stars....So, some teams are off to slow starts because of that.

[Sports Guy]

Yes, but Bryan's point is also right, for whatever reason, the Skins do very well against Barber.

Yea but it doesn't matter...It still doesn't change the fact that they didn't go to Barber enough.

Plus, you are talking 35 carries, a very small sample size and you are also talking when he wasn't the primary guy and the idea that Barber was used in short yardage a lot.

[mweb]

Question...is it possible the NFC East has the 4 best teams in all of the NFL? You all keep saying top 7 or 8 and w/e but I think that's underestimating it considering that I don't view the Pats and probably not the Colts that highly anymore either. Could these 4 teams be the best 4 in the NFL? Could they all win 10-11 games? That's gonna be TOUGH for whoever misses the playoffs from this group.

Well it's possible that they're the best 4 teams now, the Titans and Bills are 4-0, so they deserve mention, as do some other AFC teams and maybe Carolina and TB. I think there's a good chance all 4 win 10 or more.

[mweb]

Yea but it doesn't matter...It still doesn't change the fact that they didn't go to Barber enough.

Plus, you are talking 35 carries, a very small sample size and you are also talking when he wasn't the primary guy and the idea that Barber was used in short yardage a lot.

Barber was the primary guy last season, didn't start, but certainly was their main RB. And he averaged 4.8 yards/carry each of the last two season, so the short yardage point doesn't hold up too well imo.

Look, I agree they should have ran some more, but I don't think it was as big of a deal.

[mweb]

I think the Giants should be on top right now although a win by the Eagles tonight certainly could vault them to #1.

They should be considered, but I have a hard time with them at #1 considering who they've played, and the fact that they had to go to OT to beat the Bengals at home last week.

Yes, they beat the Skins, but it was obvious that the Skins offense was not ready yet, and it's not like the Giants looked that great.

[ccbird]

Question...is it possible the NFC East has the 4 best teams in all of the NFL? You all keep saying top 7 or 8 and w/e but I think that's underestimating it considering that I don't view the Pats and probably not the Colts that highly anymore either. Could these 4 teams be the best 4 in the NFL? Could they all win 10-11 games? That's gonna be TOUGH for whoever misses the playoffs from this group.

You could make an argument for those 4 teams being on top of the whole league if Philly wins tonight. Consider NY is undefeated and the other 3 teams would be 3-1 with all their losses coming inside the division to each other. Personally, I would have the Titans and Bills ahead of Washington.

One other note, as good as this division is and with Baltimore and Pittsburgh both looking suspect I believe the AFC North winner could be 8-8 or possibly even 7-9. Brutal schedules playing the NFC North and AFC South.

[bryanman8]

Barber was the primary guy last season, didn't start, but certainly was their main RB. And he averaged 4.8 yards/carry each of the last two season, so the short yardage point doesn't hold up too well imo.

Look, I agree they should have ran some more, but I don't think it was as big of a deal.
Cowboys were smart to go away from the run because we just eat Barber up. I think he's the key to shutting them down. Romo's great but that's because he has Barber to open the field for him, and then two big dudes to get open. I think when you take Barber out of the game, the Cowboys still have a decent passing attack but it's not out of the question at all for you to outscore them. That's what it seems the Skins have realized and more teams probably will as well since the Skins have nearly beaten them all three times.

[geschinger]

Great win for the Skins and as CCBird says it definatly shows Dallas is vulnerable. Teams can move the ball and score on their defense and they've been unable to generate turnovers. They are going to fail to win a playoff game again this year if that trend continues.

As for the division, it has a chance to be special. It has a legitimate chance to match or exceed the performance we witnessed from the AFC South (42-22) last season.

[backwardsk]

I was really impressed with the way the Redskins handled adversity and never let the crowd get into it. Down 7-0, they responded with a TD to tie it up.

Moss got what was originally called a horse collar overturned. Instead of a first down, they faced third and 3-5. Portis ran tough up the middle to pick up the first down. They continued to march and score a TD.

They had a series stall into a field goal after having two TDs negated by penalties, but manged to get the ball back on D and drive and score.

All three phases played really well today.

Dallas is a great team. They have four great playmakers on offense along with F Jones, Crayton, and Austin. The Redskins answered the call and limited their big plays.

Zorn belongs and he has the team believing in themselves.

I would have betty pretty happy with 2-2 after the first quarter. But 3-1 is setting themselves up for a good positions.

[Sports Guy]

They were just saying that Owens either touched or had the ball thrown to him in about a third of the Cowboys plays.

Meanwhile, Felix Jones had ZERO touches and Barber had 10 touches.

If you are a Cowboys fan and are trying to figure out why you lost, there is your reason(not taking anything away from the Skins but it certainly is in the Skins favor that the Cowboys go away from 2 of their biggest weapons for most of the game).

[ccbird]

How about Campbell?;)

Yes, the NFC East looks great. You say you knock Dallas down a notch or two, well who would you have as the number 1 team right now? I think it's a tough call, and would still consider the Cowboys.

Well, Cambell was one of the big reasons I was down on the Skins so needless to say his great play so far is making a big difference for this team. He looks much more comfortable in the pocket and is progressing through his reads and making good decisions with the ball. He has to stay consistent and prove himself over more than 3 weeks but if he does he's obviously the answer for Washington for the next 10 years.


Number 1 team is a tough call. Dallas lost at home though, to a tough team yes but at home, so I can't put them number 1 even though they are probably still the most talented team. You know as much as you and I still aren't sold on the Giants they are the defending champs and are undefeated so I think I'd have them number 1.

[Jon]

I'm surprised not to see Chris Horton's name mentioned yet.What a difference maker he's been so far this year.

You could argue that his first 2 interceptions were a right place at the right time kind of deal, but that pick today was a both a great read and great hustle to jump in front of that route.

Then you have doughty trying to jump what he thought was a slant and getting burned for that late Austin TD. So you gotta think Horton's earned the right to see the most playing time for here on out...

[allstar1579]

I'm surprised not to see Chris Horton's name mentioned yet.What a difference maker he's been so far this year.

You could argue that his first 2 interceptions were a right place at the right time kind of deal, but that pick today was a both a great read and great hustle to jump in front of that route.

Then you have doughty trying to jump what he thought was a slant and getting burned for that late Austin TD. So you gotta think Horton's earned the right to see the most playing time for here on out...

I've been begging for them to demote Doughty all season. Horton has played amazing, and he's already got a few years in this system, he's got a head start on most of the other guys. (Same defense used at UCLA). I'd like to see Moore move past Doughty on the depth chart, and I wish we had a young CB that could step up like the safeties have.

I now see why Jansen got demoted. Saw him get beat a couple times in pass protection, and they had to send help 50% of the time, reducing a pass catching option. Now if we can just get Kelly healthy so we can see what he can do, we should be in good shape.

Going to predict that 75% of our draft picks are defensive players next year, especially LB and CB.

[Jon]

I've been begging for them to demote Doughty all season. Horton has played amazing, and he's already got a few years in this system, he's got a head start on most of the other guys. (Same defense used at UCLA). I'd like to see Moore move past Doughty on the depth chart, and I wish we had a young CB that could step up like the safeties have.

I now see why Jansen got demoted. Saw him get beat a couple times in pass protection, and they had to send help 50% of the time, reducing a pass catching option. Now if we can just get Kelly healthy so we can see what he can do, we should be in good shape.

Going to predict that 75% of our draft picks are defensive players next year, especially LB and CB.

Yea...nothing about Doughty's game impresses me. He's often out of position because of a bad read, and has been burned on numerous big plays so far this season. He really stepped up at the end of last season and in the playoffs, but I think we're seeing the real number 37 this year. Horton just brings so much more to the table than Doughty, and you gotta figure the coaches are already well aware of this.

Yea, you're right...Janson failed to make an impression and you gotta figure Heyers back in when he's feeling right. He also had the most obvious non called false start I've ever seen. He was a couple yards down field before the ball was even snapped...

Not to over simplify things too much here, but in my mind, the reason the Skins are winning is simple. The teams who win the Turnover battle usually win...

[Jon]

They were just saying that Owens either touched or had the ball thrown to him in about a third of the Cowboys plays.

Meanwhile, Felix Jones had ZERO touches and Barber had 10 touches.

If you are a Cowboys fan and are trying to figure out why you lost, there is your reason(not taking anything away from the Skins but it certainly is in the Skins favor that the Cowboys go away from 2 of their biggest weapons for most of the game).


Yet in TO's post game presser, he's whining about how they lost because he wasn't seeing the ball anough :rofl:

What a :cussing:

[mweb]

They were just saying that Owens either touched or had the ball thrown to him in about a third of the Cowboys plays.

Meanwhile, Felix Jones had ZERO touches and Barber had 10 touches.

If you are a Cowboys fan and are trying to figure out why you lost, there is your reason(not taking anything away from the Skins but it certainly is in the Skins favor that the Cowboys go away from 2 of their biggest weapons for most of the game).

The funny thing is Owens complaned about not having the offense run through him enough.:D

Yeah, Jones should have been used more, don't think Barber would have helped much with more carries.

So now the Eagles have screwed up our top 4 of 6 or 8 or whatever teams talk, oh well, helps the Skins in the playoff race.

[RipkenWay]

No..The Skins are good but they aren't the 4th best team in the league(although I guess you could make the argument that they are playing good enough to be the 4th best team RIGHT NOW...I just don't think that will continue).

I do think it is possible that the top 3 teams in the NFL are in the NFC East though.



I think you could certainly make that argument. The Redskins beat the best team in football in their own building today. Sure everybody has an off day but nonetheless they still went to Irving and left with a W.

The Redskins are going through the toughest part of their schedule right now. Beating Dallas in Dallas was big IMO because next week the Skins travel to Philly, which is going to be another tough game. With this being said, if the Skins can pull out another road win next week the schedule for them becomes very favorable. The remainder of their division games will be played at Fed Ex field. Not to mention home games against the Rams and Browns.

I'm not anointing them Superbowl victors yet. I'm simply saying the Redskins are a damn good team and seem to be improving each week. ;)

[allstar1579]

I think you could certainly make that argument. The Redskins beat the best team in football in their own building today. Sure everybody has an off day but nonetheless they still went to Irving and left with a W.

The Redskins are going through the toughest part of their schedule right now. Beating Dallas in Dallas was big IMO because next week the Skins travel to Philly, which is going to be another tough game. With this being said, if the Skins can pull out another road win next week the schedule for them becomes very favorable. The remainder of their division games will be played at Fed Ex field. Not to mention home games against the Rams and Browns.

I'm not anointing them Superbowl victors yet. I'm simply saying the Redskins are a damn good team and seem to be improving each week. ;)

I can't wait for that stretch of schedule with Browns, Rams, and Lions. Much better than this opening 5 games.

[Dr. FLK]

The best part of the entire game was the sad, dejected look on Jerry Jones's plastic, surgery "enhanced", face. Santana owned Newman. TO got sad and pouty (it's reported in the Dallas newspapers that Dallas players claim TO stopped running routes because he got sad). Romo had his typical horrendous throw resulting in an INT. The "genius" Jason Garret decided he didn't need to use his RBs. Poor, poor Jerry...:D

[Dracula]

People are going to have to take notice of the Skins. Zorn and Campbell have made a ton of people eat crow since the Giants game.

JC is turning into a rock solid QB with Zorn: 6 TD's 0 INT's on the year. Zorn's playcalling was great today, kept Dallas off balance all game long. The Skins really outcoached Dallas today.

Dallas has a lot of talent, but they're coaching is gonna hold them back. They seem to fold when you go and hit them in the mouth like the Skins.

Its funny that Dallas was everyone's #1 team in the league coming into the game but now they are 3rd in the NFC East...lol

[RipkenWay]

The best part of the entire game was the sad, dejected look on Jerry Jones's plastic, surgery "enhanced", face. Santana owned Newman. TO got sad and pouty (it's reported in the Dallas newspapers that Dallas players claim TO stopped running routes because he got sad). Romo had his typical horrendous throw resulting in an INT. The "genius" Jason Garret decided he didn't need to use his RBs. Poor, poor Jerry...:D

You talking about this one? :D

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3281/2896293057_e0bbef201c.jpg?v=0

[Moose Milligan]

The Skins are the only team in the NFL not to have a turnover this season. Obviously that won't continue, but it's still great to see.

SG, the Skins have excelled at shutting down Marion Barber in the past games they've played. I know you'll point to small sample size but it is what it is...and that's all we have to go on. Consequentially, Barber doesn't get many touches because they try to go to him early and he gets stuffed, repeatedly.

The Redskins have a hard time stopping Owens though, and they always have. He torched us when he was on Philly, he torched us last year for 4 TD's in one game...he always makes Shawn Springs look stupid.

I'm not sure if you watched the game but the Cowboys looked best when going to TO and Witten. We really didn't have an answer for them and Romo had a pretty respectable day as well.

I see where you're coming from on not getting Barber enough touches and that's standard football logic...but when he's getting shut down, they have to look elsewhere.

You can't keep doing the same thing over and over and expect different results....unless you're the Orioles. ;)

[Mad Mark]

One of those games I'll choose to simply enjoy, rather than analyze.
Last line I heard before the game was Cowboys -11! :D

[Dr. FLK]

It sounds like some in Dallas are tiring of TO's act...is this the beginning of his typical meltdown? Last week he was a non-factor. This week he disappeared when it mattered. The media is questioning him...he can't like that!

http://www.star-telegram.com/332/story/939321.html

[Tank]

I admit I thought the Redskins were going to be one of the worst teams in the NFL after the Giants game. They sure look good now though.

Good luck Skins fans, it should be a fun season.

[Dr. FLK]

The Redskins have a hard time stopping Owens though, and they always have. He torched us when he was on Philly, he torched us last year for 4 TD's in one game...he always makes Shawn Springs look stupid.

I'm not sure if you watched the game but the Cowboys looked best when going to TO and Witten. We really didn't have an answer for them and Romo had a pretty respectable day as well.

I see where you're coming from on not getting Barber enough touches and that's standard football logic...but when he's getting shut down, they have to look elsewhere.

You can't keep doing the same thing over and over and expect different results....unless you're the Orioles. ;)

I think Romo's stat line is pretty misleading. He had 2 "productive" drives when the Skins went to the fabulous prevent defense (1 scoring drive at the end of each half). The rest of the game, he looked average at best.

TO was productive on the first drive of the second half, and the rest of the game he was pretty silent. And, it wasn't because they didn't try. They threw his way 17 times, and it resulted in only 7 receptions. He just wasn't getting open. He didn't like when Rogers and Springs played him physical. They did have an answer for TO: hit him, jam him, knock him around, and then watch him pout.

[Dracula]

[QUOTE=FruitLoopKid;1488732]You talking about this one?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3281/...ef201c.jpg?v=0
QUOTE]

Oh man, that is a hilarious pic right there...look at that cryptkeeper. There's a nasty J scar going from his neck to his ear it looks like, he needs to get some more botox done to fix that.

Anything more satisfying than seeing Jerrah Jones ticked off at the end of a game on the sideline where the skins pounded his team in their house?

How bout them Cowboys!! :laughlol::laughlol:

[allstar1579]

I think Romo's stat line is pretty misleading. He had 2 "productive" drives when the Skins went to the fabulous prevent defense (1 scoring drive at the end of each half). The rest of the game, he looked average at best.

TO was productive on the first drive of the second half, and the rest of the game he was pretty silent. And, it wasn't because they didn't try. They threw his way 17 times, and it resulted in only 7 receptions. He just wasn't getting open. He didn't like when Rogers and Springs played him physical. They did have an answer for TO: hit him, jam him, knock him around, and then watch him pout.

Well said. They gave up calculated losses. Holding TO in check and letting them move the ball down the field on two drives as long as they would win in the big picture. Call it acceptable losses, call it keeping them occupied long enough to run out the clock, but I kind of would had liked to see them just flat stop them cold there at the end.

All in all still a good game though. Campbell is starting to find a good balance between the shotgun and the quick WC throws. Kudos to Zorn so far for adjusting his plan completely from the preseason and week 1. Sometimes the smartest thing a man can do is admit they are stupid.

[Dr. FLK]

Well said. They gave up calculated losses. Holding TO in check and letting them move the ball down the field on two drives as long as they would win in the big picture. Call it acceptable losses, call it keeping them occupied long enough to run out the clock, but I kind of would had liked to see them just flat stop them cold there at the end.

All in all still a good game though. Campbell is starting to find a good balance between the shotgun and the quick WC throws. Kudos to Zorn so far for adjusting his plan completely from the preseason and week 1. Sometimes the smartest thing a man can do is admit they are stupid.

I'm very impressed with Zorn. He wanted to come in here and install his WC offense from the beginning. But, when it failed at first, he came up with a compromise. He found an offense that would use JC's strengths, allow him to work in aspects of his WC offense, and still succeed. He's letting JC learn on the job and still put up points. He has definitely impressed me so far.

[Sports Guy]

Yet in TO's post game presser, he's whining about how they lost because he wasn't seeing the ball anough :rofl:

What a :cussing:

Owens is a great WR and a very hard worker... But he is really a jerk.

[Sports Guy]

The Skins are the only team in the NFL not to have a turnover this season. Obviously that won't continue, but it's still great to see.

SG, the Skins have excelled at shutting down Marion Barber in the past games they've played. I know you'll point to small sample size but it is what it is...and that's all we have to go on. Consequentially, Barber doesn't get many touches because they try to go to him early and he gets stuffed, repeatedly.

The Redskins have a hard time stopping Owens though, and they always have. He torched us when he was on Philly, he torched us last year for 4 TD's in one game...he always makes Shawn Springs look stupid.

I'm not sure if you watched the game but the Cowboys looked best when going to TO and Witten. We really didn't have an answer for them and Romo had a pretty respectable day as well.

I see where you're coming from on not getting Barber enough touches and that's standard football logic...but when he's getting shut down, they have to look elsewhere.

You can't keep doing the same thing over and over and expect different results....unless you're the Orioles. ;)
This idea that Skins have done a good job against him, while true, is pretty meaningless.

Back in 2006, Barber had 15 carries vs the Skins in 2 games. In those 15 carries, he had 84 yards....5.6 YPC. He also had 3 catches for 54 yards in those 2 games.

He played once against them in this rookie year...10 carries for 30 yards...4 catches for 26 yards.

So, in 2005 and 2006, Barber had 25 carries for 114 yards...he also had 7 catches for 80 yards...That is essentially one games worth of work, over a 3 game span...That is certainly good production.

Now, last year he had a game where he had 15 carries for 43 yards and 6 carries for -6 yards...So, obviously he wasn't good against them last year.

But that isn't enough of a sample size to determine anything and it is certainly not enough to not give one of the most complete RBs in the game more touches.

To say that giving him the ball more wouldn't have made much of a difference(which MWeb is basically saying) is a complete joke...Not saying the Cowboys would have won or anything but the Cowboys game plan was terrible and they didn't get the ball to Barber or Jones enough...That is a point that you can't argue against with any kind of intelligence.

And this is before you really talk about Felix Jones, who also should have gotten more touches... many more.

[Dr. FLK]

And this is before you really talk about Felix Jones, who also should have gotten more touches... many more.

If by "many more" you mean ANY. I'm sorry, but I don't ever want to hear how brilliant Garret is. The Skins defense came out and smacked Marian in the mouth, so he decided to completely abandon the run. It's not like the Cowgirls were down big and needed to throw downfield. The game was always close, and he totally let the defense dictate how he was going to play. Not only did he stop using Marian, but he refused to use Felix (who has proven to be an explosive weapon). Garret and Phillips were completely out-coached by a guy with 3 games experience as a coach.

IMO, that game is totally different if either of those guys uses half of a brain. Anyone who thinks it's a good idea to stop using a premier RB talent and an explosive, change of pace back is being naive. The Skins played great, no doubt. But the Cowgirls played that game like a bunch of fools.

[mweb]

This idea that Skins have done a good job against him, while true, is pretty meaningless.

Back in 2006, Barber had 15 carries vs the Skins in 2 games. In those 15 carries, he had 84 yards....5.6 YPC. He also had 3 catches for 54 yards in those 2 games.

He played once against them in this rookie year...10 carries for 30 yards...4 catches for 26 yards.

So, in 2005 and 2006, Barber had 25 carries for 114 yards...he also had 7 catches for 80 yards...That is essentially one games worth of work, over a 3 game span...That is certainly good production.

Now, last year he had a game where he had 15 carries for 43 yards and 6 carries for -6 yards...So, obviously he wasn't good against them last year.

But that isn't enough of a sample size to determine anything and it is certainly not enough to not give one of the most complete RBs in the game more touches.

To say that giving him the ball more wouldn't have made much of a difference(which MWeb is basically saying) is a complete joke...Not saying the Cowboys would have won or anything but the Cowboys game plan was terrible and they didn't get the ball to Barber or Jones enough...That is a point that you can't argue against with any kind of intelligence.

And this is before you really talk about Felix Jones, who also should have gotten more touches... many more.

Trying to refrain myself from acting like SG....

It's not a complete joke at all, again, sure they should have given him a few more carries, but it likely wouldn't have mattered much as he likely would have continued to be ineffective. Yes, Jones should have gotten the ball.

[Sports Guy]

Trying to refrain myself from acting like SG....

It's not a complete joke at all, again, sure they should have given him a few more carries, but it likely wouldn't have mattered much as he likely would have continued to be ineffective. Yes, Jones should have gotten the ball.

Based on what? Because he struggled against them last year?

That is absurd homer statement.

I already proved that Barber has had success vs the Redskins in the past, so there goes that theory.

[mweb]

Based on what? Because he struggled against them last year?

That is absurd homer statement.

I already proved that Barber has had success vs the Redskins in the past, so there goes that theory.

Because he was bad against them last year and in that game. Recent past is more important and you know that very well, so I don't know how you think that disproves anything. And current game is obviously very important as well, and besides the one 15 yard run, he was totally shut down. 5 carries for 15 more yards or so instead of passes that were generally reasonably successful would not have helped much.

I agreed with you that he should have gotten more of a chance, and I certainly think it was a mistake that Jones didn't get carries, and said so. So once again, I'm not totally disagreeing with you, and I didn't say their choice not to run the ball didn't make a difference.

And I'm not being a homer at all, I think it's been verified who is the bigger homer between us when it comes to pro football.

[Sports Guy]

Because he was bad against them last year and in that game. Recent past is more important and you know that very well, so I don't know how you think that disproves anything. And current game is obviously very important as well, and besides the one 15 yard run, he was totally shut down. 5 carries for 15 more yards or so instead of passes that were generally reasonably successful would not have helped much.

I agreed with you that he should have gotten more of a chance, and I certainly think it was a mistake that Jones didn't get carries, and said so. So once again, I'm not totally disagreeing with you, and I didn't say their choice not to run the ball didn't make a difference.

And I'm not being a homer at all, I think it's been verified who is the bigger homer between us when it comes to pro football.

This is some of the poorest and illogical reasoning I have ever seen on this site.

So, because he struggled in 8 carries, that means he wouldn't have done better? LOL I am going to stop now because the absurdity is getting ridiculous.

Suffice it to say, the Cowboys are basically getting ripped by everyone today because they didn't get the ball to Barber more.

[mweb]

This is some of the poorest and illogical reasoning I have ever seen on this site.

So, because he struggled in 8 carries, that means he wouldn't have done better? LOL I am going to stop now because the absurdity is getting ridiculous.

Suffice it to say, the Cowboys are basically getting ripped by everyone today because they didn't get the ball to Barber more.

Can you possibly be more of a jerk?

It means there was a good chance he wouldn't have been effective. Yes, that is clear. Obviously anything could have happened, and I said I would have given him more chances, and certainly would have given Jones some carries. Eventually you'll understand what I'm saying instead of putting words in my mouth, which is something you always rip people for doing.

And I said they should give him and Jones the ball more, so what's the point of your last comment?

[Sports Guy]

Can you possibly be more of a jerk? Could you be anymore clueless? I expect more out of you than this.

Let me ask this one question...You say that you agree Barber should have gotten more touches but in your next breath, you basically say it wouldn't have mattered.

So, if it wouldn't have mattered, why should he have gotten more touches?

[mweb]

Could you be anymore clueless? I expect more out of you than this.

Let me ask this one question...You say that you agree Barber should have gotten more touches but in your next breath, you basically say it wouldn't have mattered.

So, if it wouldn't have mattered, why should he have gotten more touches?

Well sadly, I don't expect anymore from you.

I'm saying it likely wouldn't have mattered much, but I would have given him a few more carries to attempt to prove me wrong. Can't you tell the difference between what I'm saying and what you're claiming I'm saying? And I'm saying Jones would have been more likely to make a positive difference. I don't think giving Barber close to 20 carries or more would have been a wise gameplan, especially considering how the game was going. Now, that's not saying he can't have a good game against the Skins, I would just be more confident in the passing game and Felix than I would be in Barber against the Skins.

[Sports Guy]

Barber was the primary guy last season, didn't start, but certainly was their main RB. And he averaged 4.8 yards/carry each of the last two season, so the short yardage point doesn't hold up too well imo.

Look, I agree they should have ran some more, but I don't think it was as big of a deal.


The funny thing is Owens complaned about not having the offense run through him enough.:D

Yeah, Jones should have been used more, don't think Barber would have helped much with more carries.
So now the Eagles have screwed up our top 4 of 6 or 8 or whatever teams talk, oh well, helps the Skins in the playoff race.


Trying to refrain myself from acting like SG....

It's not a complete joke at all, again, sure they should have given him a few more carries, but it likely wouldn't have mattered much as he likely would have continued to be ineffective. Yes, Jones should have gotten the ball.


Well sadly, I don't expect anymore from you.

I'm saying it likely wouldn't have mattered much, but I would have given him a few more carries to attempt to prove me wrong. Can't you tell the difference between what I'm saying and what you're claiming I'm saying? And I'm saying Jones would have been more likely to make a positive difference. I don't think giving Barber close to 20 carries or more would have been a wise gameplan, especially considering how the game was going. Now, that's not saying he can't have a good game against the Skins, I would just be more confident in the passing game and Felix than I would be in Barber against the Skins.


When someone sits there and continues to say it likely wouldn't mattered much, etc....that basically tells me you think Barber gets shut down and you base that off the idea that he got shut down last year.

That is poor reasoning.

At the end of the day, the Cowboys LIKELY(see, I can use that word too) win yesterday if their game plan was better...Credit to the Skins for winning the game but the Cowboys did plenty to lose it for themselves.

[mweb]

When someone sits there and continues to say it likely wouldn't mattered much, etc....that basically tells me you think Barber gets shut down and you base that off the idea that he got shut down last year.

That is poor reasoning.

At the end of the day, the Cowboys LIKELY(see, I can use that word too) win yesterday if their game plan was better...Credit to the Skins for winning the game but the Cowboys did plenty to lose it for themselves.

Yes, your reasoning that 2006 is more important than 2007 and the current game is tremendous.

And way to spend all that time quoting and bolding to prove that you have been putting words in my mouth.

Sorry for using likely, didn't realize everything had to be black and white to the point where I have to definitively know how much Barber getting more carries would have affected the game.

And the Skins likely win regardless of that if they finish their drives a little better and don't play prevent in the 2 minute drill. And maybe their secondary would have done better in the 2nd half if 3 of their top 4 corners didn't get hurt. But I guess the Skins are just a lucky team, at least according to you.

The Skins fared well against the Cowboys last year as well.

[Sports Guy]

Yes, your reasoning that 2006 is more important than 2007 and the current game is tremendous.
Actually, I only bring up 2006 because it was said that Barber has never done anything vs the Skins..That is obviously 100% false.


And the Skins likely win regardless of that if they finish their drives a little better and don't play prevent in the 2 minute drill. And maybe their secondary would have done better in the 2nd half if 3 of their top 4 corners didn't get hurt. But I guess the Skins are just a lucky team, at least according to you.
Speaking of putting words into people's mouths.

[mweb]

Actually, I only bring up 2006 because it was said that Barber has never done anything vs the Skins..That is obviously 100% false.


Speaking of putting words into people's mouths.

Who said that? And you brought it up to prove my point wrong, which you said it did. While the only way that could be the case is if 2006 was at least as important as 2007 and yesterday.

Well lets see, you said they were lucky to beat the Saints, and now you said the Cowboys would have likely won if they had a better game plan. Not hard to figure out that you think they are lucky to be 3-1.

[backwardsk]

The Cowboys won't forget the run when they come to FedEx. However, they'll still shut down Barber in that game as well.

Redskins opponents record when they don't play the Skins: 9-2. Not too bad for Washington.

[Sports Guy]

How did the Skins do against Barber tonight?

[backwardsk]

How did the Skins do against Barber tonight?

Not as good as the Ravens did against Bradshaw, Ward, and Jacobs.

[mweb]

Shocking that SG comes backs and gloats after not responding to a post that he had no answer for.

They made some adjustments in their running game this week, and they worked. But hey, the most recent games didn't matter to you after the first match-up to you, so maybe I should just ignore the results of this game.

It's also funny that the Cowboys scored more in the first match-up, had more total yards, and turned the ball over less.

Hmmm....maybe it was their defense beating the Skins offense that largely decided this game?

[bryanman8]

Shocking that SG comes backs and gloats after not responding to a post that he had no answer for.

They made some adjustments in their running game this week, and they worked. But hey, the most recent games didn't matter to you after the first match-up to you, so maybe I should just ignore the results of this game.

It's also funny that the Cowboys scored more in the first match-up, had more total yards, and turned the ball over less.

Hmmm....maybe it was their defense beating the Skins offense that largely decided this game?
Amen. Skins O regressed horribly it seems since that last Dallas game...the O-Line is just playing atrocious, and no one besides Moss can get open.

Garrett earned his paycheck tonight...he basically re-did their running blocking schemes and they ran all over the Skins' front tonight. The Skins' front quite frankly is awful...haven't been able to get an ounce of passrush all year, and can only stop the run when they're able to keep Horton and Fletcher and Landry very close to the line. They couldn't tonight because the Cowboys spread the receivers and showed a lot of different looks before getting Barber out in the open.

Was thoroughly unimpressed with everyone on the Skins tonight. We need a 20+ point win over Seattle to get us going again.

[Sports Guy]

Shocking that SG comes backs and gloats after not responding to a post that he had no answer for.

They made some adjustments in their running game this week, and they worked. But hey, the most recent games didn't matter to you after the first match-up to you, so maybe I should just ignore the results of this game.

It's also funny that the Cowboys scored more in the first match-up, had more total yards, and turned the ball over less.

Hmmm....maybe it was their defense beating the Skins offense that largely decided this game?

I was told in this thread, over and over again, that Barber can't do anything against the Skins..First of all, I proved that to be wrong and then last night, he showed that the idea was bs to begin with.

[mweb]

I was told in this thread, over and over again, that Barber can't do anything against the Skins..First of all, I proved that to be wrong and then last night, he showed that the idea was bs to begin with.

You were not told that, you were told that the Redskins did a great job against him in recent games including the game in question. You countered with him doing pretty well against the Skins in 2006, which is fine, but you acted as if that was more important than 2007 and the game this year, which is absurd.

[Mad Mark]

Amen. Skins O regressed horribly it seems since that last Dallas game...the O-Line is just playing atrocious, and no one besides Moss can get open.

Garrett earned his paycheck tonight...he basically re-did their running blocking schemes and they ran all over the Skins' front tonight. The Skins' front quite frankly is awful...haven't been able to get an ounce of passrush all year, and can only stop the run when they're able to keep Horton and Fletcher and Landry very close to the line. They couldn't tonight because the Cowboys spread the receivers and showed a lot of different looks before getting Barber out in the open.

Was thoroughly unimpressed with everyone on the Skins tonight. We need a 20+ point win over Seattle to get us going again.

If the 2009 Redskins draft doesn't consist entirely of linemen, something is wrong.

[Sports Guy]

Maybe because Barber in his last three games against us has now rushed for 57 yards on 35 carries?

Skins OWN him.

What a win for Zorn! The man is a genius!


Yes, but Bryan's point is also right, for whatever reason, the Skins do very well against Barber.


Trying to refrain myself from acting like SG....

It's not a complete joke at all, again, sure they should have given him a few more carries, but it likely wouldn't have mattered much as he likely would have continued to be ineffective. Yes, Jones should have gotten the ball.


Because he was bad against them last year and in that game. Recent past is more important and you know that very well, so I don't know how you think that disproves anything. And current game is obviously very important as well, and besides the one 15 yard run, he was totally shut down. 5 carries for 15 more yards or so instead of passes that were generally reasonably successful would not have helped much.

I agreed with you that he should have gotten more of a chance, and I certainly think it was a mistake that Jones didn't get carries, and said so. So once again, I'm not totally disagreeing with you, and I didn't say their choice not to run the ball didn't make a difference.

And I'm not being a homer at all, I think it's been verified who is the bigger homer between us when it comes to pro football.


The Cowboys won't forget the run when they come to FedEx. However, they'll still shut down Barber in that game as well.

Redskins opponents record when they don't play the Skins: 9-2. Not too bad for Washington.Sorry Mweb but you are wrong..Plenty of comments in this thread that more touches for Barber in the first game wouldn't have mattered or that the Skins own him, shut him down, etc...

My point the whole time was that a small sampling of carries isn't anough to prove anything.

Yesterday, Barber was the best player on the field and barber was the one who OWNED the Skins.

[Sports Guy]

You were not told that, you were told that the Redskins did a great job against him in recent games including the game in question. You countered with him doing pretty well against the Skins in 2006, which is fine, but you acted as if that was more important than 2007 and the game this year, which is absurd.

No, what I said was that you guys looking at 35 carries and acting as if Barber is never going to do anything against the skins was absurd and Barber proved me right yesterday.

[mweb]

Sorry Mweb but you are wrong..Plenty of comments in this thread that more touches for Barber in the first game wouldn't have mattered or that the Skins own him, shut him down, etc...

My point the whole time was that a small sampling of carries isn't anough to prove anything.

Yesterday, Barber was the best player on the field and barber was the one who OWNED the Skins.

My bad, I forgot to put those comments into the SG translator which exaggerates all those quotes to help his own point.

None of my quotes even come close to what you're portraying.

[Sports Guy]

My bad, I forgot to put those comments into the SG translator which exaggerates all those quotes to help his own point.

None of my quotes even come close to what you're portraying.

yea and I am ONLY talking about you...:rolleyes:

[mweb]

yea and I am ONLY talking about you...:rolleyes:

3 out of the 5 quotes were from me, and they were supposed to support your position that your were told over and over again that Barber couldn't do anything against the Skins. They did not. Plus I was the primary person debating you.

You have one cocky quote from someone that says the Skins would shut him down the next game, that's it.

Of course, you were confident the Ravens would stop the Giants running game, but you don't see me going into that forum to rip on you on that.

Again, regardless of this, the Cowboys scored less points, had less yards, and more turnovers in this game, their change in their offensive gameplan did not end up producing more than in their past game. Their defense and/or the Skins offense was the difference.

[Sports Guy]

3 out of the 5 quotes were from me, and they were supposed to support your position that your were told over and over again that Barber couldn't do anything against the Skins. They did not. Plus I was the primary person debating you.

You have one cocky quote from someone that says the Skins would shut him down the next game, that's it.

Of course, you were confident the Ravens would stop the Giants running game, but you don't see me going into that forum to rip on you on that.

Again, regardless of this, the Cowboys scored less points, had less yards, and more turnovers in this game, their change in their offensive gameplan did not end up producing more than in their past game. Their defense and/or the Skins offense was the difference.

First of all, I could care less what you have to say about the Ravens performance yesterday...Go say what you want. BTW, me saying the Ravens are going to shut down a running games has 7 years worth of data backing me up..you had 36 carries for barber backing you up...Hopefully you are intelligent enough to see the difference.

Secondly, you clearly said that even if Barber had more touches in the first game that it likely wouldn't have made a difference...You can;t dispute saying that. The reason you seemed to feel that way is because they have done well, as of late, against Barber.

However, last night proved that Barber can do things against them and perhaps had he had more touches the first game, things may have been different.

That was always my point the entire time and barber proved my point for me last night.

But again, i provided quotes from a few other posters, not just you.

[bryanman8]

First of all, I could care less what you have to say about the Ravens performance yesterday...Go say what you want. BTW, me saying the Ravens are going to shut down a running games has 7 years worth of data backing me up..you had 36 carries for barber backing you up...Hopefully you are intelligent enough to see the difference.

Secondly, you clearly said that even if Barber had more touches in the first game that it likely wouldn't have made a difference...You can;t dispute saying that. The reason you seemed to feel that way is because they have done well, as of late, against Barber.

However, last night proved that Barber can do things against them and perhaps had he had more touches the first game, things may have been different.

That was always my point the entire time and barber proved my point for me last night.

But again, i provided quotes from a few other posters, not just you.
It's just not true. The Skins earlier in the season were able to key in on Barber and shut him down. Garrett tried to go to him but HAD to abandon it because it was getting them absolutely nowhere. In that game, we had Montgomery, a big stout runstopper up front...we didn't have to worry about getting Jason Taylor in, who is an awful runstopper...we had Shawn Springs to completely take T.O. out of the game and hardly needed to even have a safety blanketing him. The Cowboys didn't have another huge threat in Roy Williams. We had a healthier Marcus Washington. And finally, we had an offense that was the opposite of anemic like it was last night.

The Cowboys' running game in week 4 could not have done that against the Skins. They almost completely redesigned their blocking scheme and run play design over the bye to prepare for basically a must-win for them. Week 4, it was right up the middle, just like it was for them last season, all of which saw Barber get stuffed every time. They figured it out, went back to the drawing board, had some other key factors that opened things up for them, and Jason Garrett showed why he is the best offensive coordinator in the game.

If anything, you are the moron. You were hating on him needlessly because the Skins' had a great gameplan and forced him to adjust to an almost all-pass scheme, and he still almost beat them. This week, he called a great game, the Skins' D still showed their strength by giving up 14 points, but he outcoached Zorn this time around and found a way to get Barber involved and that was certainly the difference. But it couldn't have been done in week 4, as everyone told you, and the Skins' did own Barber up to that point until the Cowboys got motivated and figured out how to beat it over the bye.

[mweb]

First of all, I could care less what you have to say about the Ravens performance yesterday...Go say what you want. BTW, me saying the Ravens are going to shut down a running games has 7 years worth of data backing me up..you had 36 carries for barber backing you up...Hopefully you are intelligent enough to see the difference.

Secondly, you clearly said that even if Barber had more touches in the first game that it likely wouldn't have made a difference...You can;t dispute saying that. The reason you seemed to feel that way is because they have done well, as of late, against Barber.

However, last night proved that Barber can do things against them and perhaps had he had more touches the first game, things may have been different.
That was always my point the entire time and barber proved my point for me last night.

But again, i provided quotes from a few other posters, not just you.

Likely being a key word and the results from their offense that game vs yesterday is also key, but you continue to ignore that issue.

Barber didn't prove your point, just because he had a good game yesterday doesn't mean he would have that game. He also got off to a good start last night, compared to a terrible start in the other game, which was following two bad games against the Skins. Don't see how you can assume he would have turned it on in the last game just because he had a good game last night, a game in which the Cowboys made a stategic adjustment in their running game compared to what they've done all season.

But of course the part in bold isn't something I disagreed with, I just thought it was less likely to make things better for the Cowboys.

[Sports Guy]

It's just not true. The Skins earlier in the season were able to key in on Barber and shut him down. Garrett tried to go to him but HAD to abandon it because it was getting them absolutely nowhere. In that game, we had Montgomery, a big stout runstopper up front...we didn't have to worry about getting Jason Taylor in, who is an awful runstopper...we had Shawn Springs to completely take T.O. out of the game and hardly needed to even have a safety blanketing him. The Cowboys didn't have another huge threat in Roy Williams. We had a healthier Marcus Washington. And finally, we had an offense that was the opposite of anemic like it was last night.

The Cowboys' running game in week 4 could not have done that against the Skins. They almost completely redesigned their blocking scheme and run play design over the bye to prepare for basically a must-win for them. Week 4, it was right up the middle, just like it was for them last season, all of which saw Barber get stuffed every time. They figured it out, went back to the drawing board, had some other key factors that opened things up for them, and Jason Garrett showed why he is the best offensive coordinator in the game.

If anything, you are the moron. You were hating on him needlessly because the Skins' had a great gameplan and forced him to adjust to an almost all-pass scheme, and he still almost beat them. This week, he called a great game, the Skins' D still showed their strength by giving up 14 points, but he outcoached Zorn this time around and found a way to get Barber involved and that was certainly the difference. But it couldn't have been done in week 4, as everyone told you, and the Skins' did own Barber up to that point until the Cowboys got motivated and figured out how to beat it over the bye.
This is such homer bs but hey, it did come from a little kid, so what should I expect?

Now, let's look at Barber's carries in that first game and the game situations they were done in:

1st drive for Dallas...No score:

Barber had 2 carries...One went for 5 yards, one went for no gain.

2nd Drive for Dallas...no score:

Barber had 1 catch for 5 yards....1 carry for -1 yards.

3rd drive for dallas:

No touches for Barber...All passes except a TO reverse...Cowboys score a TD

4th drive...tie score:

1 carry for 1 yard(this was a 3 and out)

5th drive...14-7 Wash:

barber...1 carry for 3 yards

6th drive..17-7, end of half:

Barber has one catch for 6 yards

7th drive...17-10:

Barber has 2 carries...One goes for 3 yards and the other goes for 15 yards....Cowboys score a TD.

8th drive...17-17:

No touches

9th drive:

1 carry for no gain

That was the last touch he would have for the rest of the game...They didn't get their best player the ball at all in the 4th quarter of a game that was close throughout.

In his last 4 carries, Barber had 21 yards...A good YPC average.

After that game, the only people who felt Dallas didn't screw up the play calling by not getting the ball in his hands more were the Skins fans who felt that the only reason for that was because "they own Barber"...That is and was a crock of ****.

You are right about one thing...the Cowboys did make adjustments...Their adjustment was to get the ball in the hands of their best player and let him win the game for them and that is exactly what he did.

Had the Cowboys been down big in that first game, I can understand them not giving Barber more carries...But either way, they certainly should have passed it to him more and they certainly should have ran it more in the first 3 quarters...If you have a top back and you are in a close game, it is disgraceful play calling to not keep feeding your top back.

Everyone knows that the idea is that even if you are getting little to no gain early on, that those runs start to become better and better. Barber is no different. His best quarter last night was the 4th quarter, when the Skins were wearing down. He ran it down their throats and they couldn't do anything about it.

That could have happened in the first game but Garrett didn't give it a chance and he was hammered for it in the media.

[Sports Guy]

Likely being a key word and the results from their offense that game vs yesterday is also key, but you continue to ignore that issue.

Barber didn't prove your point, just because he had a good game yesterday doesn't mean he would have that game. He also got off to a good start last night, compared to a terrible start in the other game, which was following two bad games against the Skins. Don't see how you can assume he would have turned it on in the last game just because he had a good game last night, a game in which the Cowboys made a stategic adjustment in their running game compared to what they've done all season.

But of course the part in bold isn't something I disagreed with, I just thought it was less likely to make things better for the Cowboys.

4 carries for 5 yards....I am sure in some game, at some point in the history of the NFL, a player has been able to bounce back from 4 bad carries. :rolleyes:

[mweb]

4 carries for 5 yards....I am sure in some game, at some point in the history of the NFL, a player has been able to bounce back from 4 bad carries. :rolleyes:

It's nice of you to pick one small part of a post and roll your eyes at it out of context.

Of course many have bounced back, and I'm sure many have not as well, especially one's that have struggled recently against the same team and are using the same running strategy.

Going back to your last post, Barber isn't their best player, and I guess you don't watch many Cowboys games, or listened to the broadcast last night if you think their only adjustment was giving him the ball more.

And of course you still have yet to address the fact that their offense was less productive last night compared to the previous game.

[Sports Guy]

It's nice of you to pick one small part of a post and roll your eyes at it out of context.

Of course many have bounced back, and I'm sure many have not as well, especially one's that have struggled recently against the same team and are using the same running strategy.

Going back to your last post, Barber isn't their best player, and I guess you don't watch many Cowboys games, or listened to the broadcast last night if you think their only adjustment was giving him the ball more.

And of course you still have yet to address the fact that their offense was less productive last night compared to the previous game.

I think he is their best offensive player, outside of maybe Romo.

Their offense was less productive because of a rusty Romo and him throwing some bad INTs. Plus, it was on the road and you wouldn't expect them to be quite as good.

Plus, they made the effort to run the ball and control the clock, which is almost always going to end up with fewer points unless something out of the ordinary happens.

And I picked out that part because it went with the same concept of a small sample throughout this whole thread.

[bryanman8]

This is such homer bs but hey, it did come from a little kid, so what should I expect?

Now, let's look at Barber's carries in that first game and the game situations they were done in:

1st drive for Dallas...No score:

Barber had 2 carries...One went for 5 yards, one went for no gain.

2nd Drive for Dallas...no score:

Barber had 1 catch for 5 yards....1 carry for -1 yards.

3rd drive for dallas:

No touches for Barber...All passes except a TO reverse...Cowboys score a TD

4th drive...tie score:

1 carry for 1 yard(this was a 3 and out)

5th drive...14-7 Wash:

barber...1 carry for 3 yards

6th drive..17-7, end of half:

Barber has one catch for 6 yards

7th drive...17-10:

Barber has 2 carries...One goes for 3 yards and the other goes for 15 yards....Cowboys score a TD.

8th drive...17-17:

No touches

9th drive:

1 carry for no gain

That was the last touch he would have for the rest of the game...They didn't get their best player the ball at all in the 4th quarter of a game that was close throughout.

In his last 4 carries, Barber had 21 yards...A good YPC average.

After that game, the only people who felt Dallas didn't screw up the play calling by not getting the ball in his hands more were the Skins fans who felt that the only reason for that was because "they own Barber"...That is and was a crock of ****.

You are right about one thing...the Cowboys did make adjustments...Their adjustment was to get the ball in the hands of their best player and let him win the game for them and that is exactly what he did.

Had the Cowboys been down big in that first game, I can understand them not giving Barber more carries...But either way, they certainly should have passed it to him more and they certainly should have ran it more in the first 3 quarters...If you have a top back and you are in a close game, it is disgraceful play calling to not keep feeding your top back.

Everyone knows that the idea is that even if you are getting little to no gain early on, that those runs start to become better and better. Barber is no different. His best quarter last night was the 4th quarter, when the Skins were wearing down. He ran it down their throats and they couldn't do anything about it.

That could have happened in the first game but Garrett didn't give it a chance and he was hammered for it in the media.
You're a joke.

The "little kid" insult doesn't work so well anymore; 17 isn't very little. I could probably beat you up. What are you anyway, a stay-at-home-mom? Do you work? Get outside a couple times monthly.

Your entire argument is laughable and you know it. "In 4 carries, Barber had a good YPC avg with 21 yards"...ONE OF THEM WAS FOR 16. Take out one, his average was under 2. You try and find absolutely anything that can possibly support your argument.

FWIW, that play by play did nothing but prove our argument to be even more true. Most drives early in the game, the Cowboys were giving Barber a carry or two and going mostly three and out. They couldn't afford to keep doing that, running it on first or second down and getting nothing, so they turned to the past because the Skins keyed in on Barber and the Cowboys couldn't block for it. Also, guess what...on the Cowboys' three TD drives, Barber had a total of TWO touches!

The difference in the two games, really, was the Skins' offense. Barber played better, Romo played worse. The Cowboys, as I said, redid their running game. You, of course, ignored all of that, ignored the Skins' O regressing, ignored Roy Williams, ignored Jason Taylor...you DO acknowledge that the Cowboys adjusted, which is a coup for you, but are unable to grasp the concept that the adjustment occured over 7 weeks and a bye. They could not have done it in week 4, because the Cowboys had absolutely nothing on the run there.

Also, what does me being a homer have to do with explaining that Jason Garrett is the best OC in the game, realized he couldn't run the ball against the Skins in week 4, still almost called the game well enough to win but Brian Stewart is a clown and they lost, and made the adjustments necessary to get a run game and beat the Skins 7 weeks later?

Answer: absolutely nothing. How is that even remotely "homer"ish?
Just laughable.

[mweb]

I think he is their best offensive player, outside of maybe Romo.

Their offense was less productive because of a rusty Romo and him throwing some bad INTs. Plus, it was on the road and you wouldn't expect them to be quite as good.

Plus, they made the effort to run the ball and control the clock, which is almost always going to end up with fewer points unless something out of the ordinary happens.

And I picked out that part because it went with the same concept of a small sample throughout this whole thread.

I think Owens and Witten are also at least as good.

And the Skins were missing a couple defenders that were key in the last matchup as Bryan pointed out. And it's foolish to ignore the difference in run strategy, which like Bryan said, was something they developed during the bye week.

Romo played quite well besides the Hall INT. They didn't control the clock other than that last drive, but that was something they did better. Before that last drive, the distribution was still pretty in favor of passing, 26 passes to 16 rushes.

And you're using a smaller sample size to attempt to prove your point. Interesting.

[Sports Guy]

The "little kid" insult doesn't work so well anymore; 17 isn't very little. I could probably beat you up. What are you anyway, a stay-at-home-mom? Do you work? Get outside a couple times monthly.LOL...I would love to see you try and beat me up.


Your entire argument is laughable and you know it. "In 4 carries, Barber had a good YPC avg with 21 yards"...ONE OF THEM WAS FOR 16. Take out one, his average was under 2. You try and find absolutely anything that can possibly support your argumentYou are 1000% right on this Bryan. The problem is, that argument can be made for the whole game...It is all done in a small sample size...I appreciate you making my argument for me.


FWIW, that play by play did nothing but prove our argument to be even more true. Most drives early in the game, the Cowboys were giving Barber a carry or two and going mostly three and out. They couldn't afford to keep doing that, running it on first or second down and getting nothing, so they turned to the past because the Skins keyed in on Barber and the Cowboys couldn't block for it. Also, guess what...on the Cowboys' three TD drives, Barber had a total of TWO touches!And they may have had more TD drives had they given him the ball more. They may have eaten more clock...worn down the Skins better, etc...That is what the running game does.


The difference in the two games, really, was the Skins' offense. Barber played better, Romo played worse. The Cowboys, as I said, redid their running game. You, of course, ignored all of that, ignored the Skins' O regressing, ignored Roy Williams, ignored Jason Taylor...you DO acknowledge that the Cowboys adjusted, which is a coup for you, but are unable to grasp the concept that the adjustment occured over 7 weeks and a bye. They could not have done it in week 4, because the Cowboys had absolutely nothing on the run there.
This is just stupid and shows your total lack of knowledge...To say it took them 7 weeks to figure out how to run on the skins is a joke. The Cowboys game plan in the first game was poor...They needed to run it more and they needed to get into Barber's hands more..period. It is no coincidence that in a game that Barber gets touches, THAT THEY WIN THE GAME!

Also, what does me being a homer have to do with explaining that Jason Garrett is the best OC in the game, realized he couldn't run the ball against the Skins in week 4, still almost called the game well enough to win but Brian Stewart is a clown and they lost, and made the adjustments necessary to get a run game and beat the Skins 7 weeks later?You are a homer because you have the fallacy that Barber is owned by the Skins and that he had no chance against them...So, because you feel that way, you think they had to do other things.

The Boys didn't game plan for the Skins 5 weeks ago Bryan...they did over the bye week.

[Sports Guy]

I think Owens and Witten are also at least as good.Barber is the key for them winning games IMO...They have to run the ball. He is the reason they won last night.


And the Skins were missing a couple defenders that were key in the last matchup as Bryan pointed outThat happens. Sure, it helps but Barber ran great last night and a lot of times, wasn't even touched when he went to the outside until he had already gained 4 or 5 yards.
And it's foolish to ignore the difference in run strategy, which like Bryan said, was something they developed during the bye week.
I am not ignoring it all...The idea to run the ball more and make it important is an absolute key....That was my point from the beginning. They didn't make running the ball important enough in the first game and their game plan wasn't good.

And you're using a smaller sample size to attempt to prove your point. Interesting.All of the sample sizes used in this entire thread were done in a poor way....The only reason I even brought that up was to show that he was starting to do something...All the rushes weren't for no gain or 1 yard.

Again, the main point of everything is that Barber should have, without question, gotten more touches in the first game...You are at least smart enough to acknowledge this..Bryan isn't. He just doesn't understand which isn't all that surprising.

Barber showed last night that when you make him the focal point of the offense, that he can carry a team, especially late.

And let's not forget receiving the ball as well...They should have gone to him more in the first game through the air as well.

The Cowboys win games at a much greater rate when Barber has good games...He has struggled lately, with a poor passing game and the Cowboys also struggled.

Getting him more touches and making him a larger part of the game plan last night was one of the main reasons they won the game.

[bryanman8]

This is just stupid and shows your total lack of knowledge...To say it took them 7 weeks to figure out how to run on the skins is a joke. The Cowboys game plan in the first game was poor...They needed to run it more and they needed to get into Barber's hands more..period. It is no coincidence that in a game that Barber gets touches, THAT THEY WIN THE GAME!

You are a homer because you have the fallacy that Barber is owned by the Skins and that he had no chance against them...So, because you feel that way, you think they had to do other things.

The Boys didn't game plan for the Skins 5 weeks ago Bryan...they did over the bye week.
Your argument is completely contradictory. They scored TEN FEWER POINTS than last game, had 4 fewer first downs, 30 fewer yards...if anything, I'd say their offense played better last time around.

Barber was able to wear down a tired defense in the fourth quarter after doing not all that much earlier in the game. The defense was tired because the Skins' O was awful. Barber took advantage because he's in great shape and the Skins' D wore down. The Skins D wore down, again, because their O was awful.

Yes, in week 4, they had to do other things. If you watched the game, you would know that. Barber was going nowhere and couldn't go anywhere. The Skins were playing 8 in the box. Dallas tried to open it up and had decent success but their D got burned; another difference in the game's outcome. Last time around, Dallas' D played awful. This time, they played great.

I'd say all of those had bigger impacts in Dallas winning than them involving Marion Barber. It's just more clear in your mind because he put the game away as he got stronger as the game went on. Dallas couldn't afford to pound it with him in the 4th quarter last time because he had no holes and they were down like 10 rather than being up 4.

No contest over when the Cowboys planned. I don't really care, and I had been saying mainly that they used the bye week to re-do their run blocking schemes, which you ignored.

[Sports Guy]

Your argument is completely contradictory. They scored TEN FEWER POINTS than last game, had 4 fewer first downs, 30 fewer yards...if anything, I'd say their offense played better last time around.

Barber was able to wear down a tired defense in the fourth quarter after doing not all that much earlier in the game. The defense was tired because the Skins' O was awful. Barber took advantage because he's in great shape and the Skins' D wore down. The Skins D wore down, again, because their O was awful.

Yes, in week 4, they had to do other things. If you watched the game, you would know that. Barber was going nowhere and couldn't go anywhere. The Skins were playing 8 in the box. Dallas tried to open it up and had decent success but their D got burned; another difference in the game's outcome. Last time around, Dallas' D played awful. This time, they played great.

I'd say all of those had bigger impacts in Dallas winning than them involving Marion Barber. It's just more clear in your mind because he put the game away as he got stronger as the game went on. Dallas couldn't afford to pound it with him in the 4th quarter last time because he had no holes and they were down like 10 rather than being up 4.

No contest over when the Cowboys planned. I don't really care, and I had been saying mainly that they used the bye week to re-do their run blocking schemes, which you ignored.
Bryan, the idea of the Skins having 8 in the box and the Boys having to loosen them up is a great and obvious point...No one is arguing against that.

The point is that you have to get the ball in the hands of your playmakers.

Last night, the Skins failed to get the ball in the hands of Moss on any kind of regular basis.

If the Skins don't get the ball in the hands of Portis, they are going to struggle to win.

The part of this you aren't mentioning is that the Cowboys WON the game by giving the ball to Barber.

In the first game, the TOP was almost 2:1 in favor of the Skins..Last night, the Boys controlled the ball for over 31 minutes and it likely would have been more like 35 had Romo not turned it over.

Yes, the Boys put up more points but many passing offenses tend to put up more points than running offenses. That is how the game goes.

But winning is down in the trenches and with the running game and controlling the clock.

They did that last night...they didn't the game before.

[mweb]

Barber is the key for them winning games IMO...They have to run the ball. He is the reason they won last night.

That happens. Sure, it helps but Barber ran great last night and a lot of times, wasn't even touched when he went to the outside until he had already gained 4 or 5 yards.
I am not ignoring it all...The idea to run the ball more and make it important is an absolute key....That was my point from the beginning. They didn't make running the ball important enough in the first game and their game plan wasn't good.
All of the sample sizes used in this entire thread were done in a poor way....The only reason I even brought that up was to show that he was starting to do something...All the rushes weren't for no gain or 1 yard.

Again, the main point of everything is that Barber should have, without question, gotten more touches in the first game...You are at least smart enough to acknowledge this..Bryan isn't. He just doesn't understand which isn't all that surprising.

Barber showed last night that when you make him the focal point of the offense, that he can carry a team, especially late.

And let's not forget receiving the ball as well...They should have gone to him more in the first game through the air as well.

The Cowboys win games at a much greater rate when Barber has good games...He has struggled lately, with a poor passing game and the Cowboys also struggled.

Getting him more touches and making him a larger part of the game plan last night was one of the main reasons they won the game.

Their defense beating the Skins offense is the reason why they won, that is obvious. Their offense had little to do with why they won the game, except for the last drive which was impressive. But then again, they would have given Barber the ball if they were in a similiar situation in the first game.

You do seem to be ignoring it, because we're not talking about the strategy of running more, we're talking about a different running strategy.

I don't think I did use sample size's incorrectly, but you probably take it that way because you exaggerrated my position.

Sure, some more touches would have been nice, even though probably uneffective unless they went into the future to figure out how to run Barber against the Skins defense. I would have given Jones more carries in the first game, and focused less on TO while passing, those would have been my major adjustments for them in the first game, yet they still produced more than this last game.

Every team wins at a much better rate when their star running back has a good game, just like every team wins at a much better rate when their QB has a good game.

[TommyD4207]

Bryan, the idea of the Skins having 8 in the box and the Boys having to loosen them up is a great and obvious point...No one is arguing against that.

The point is that you have to get the ball in the hands of your playmakers.

Last night, the Skins failed to get the ball in the hands of Moss on any kind of regular basis.

If the Skins don't get the ball in the hands of Portis, they are going to struggle to win.

The part of this you aren't mentioning is that the Cowboys WON the game by giving the ball to Barber.

In the first game, the TOP was almost 2:1 in favor of the Skins..Last night, the Boys controlled the ball for over 31 minutes and it likely would have been more like 35 had Romo not turned it over.

Yes, the Boys put up more points but many passing offenses tend to put up more points than running offenses. That is how the game goes.

But winning is down in the trenches and with the running game and controlling the clock.

They did that last night...they didn't the game before.

What are you talking about? The key to a successful offense is taking what the defense gives you. If they're loading up 8 in the box, you don't run it right up the middle...you do other stuff. What in God's name good would giving Marion Barber the ball a whole bunch more times with 8 in the box have done? You're way oversimplifying things here. mweb has provided good examples of as to how the Cowboys switched things up. It's not as simple as simply giving the ball to Barber. The offense on Sunday took what the defense gave them and they were successful.

[Moose Milligan]

The Skins straight up blew this game and I knew they were going to lose it halfway through the third quarter.

They've been in every single game they've played this year, they haven't had a blowout at all. And in all the losses, the same things have kept them from winning...

The Redskins started the Dallas game off great, scoring right away, setting the tone. They failed to capitalize and get any points or run any significant time off the clock with the turnovers they received. They kept their defense on the field for far too long...and in turn, they allowed Dallas to hang around in the game.

Allowing a team to hang around in a football game is playing with fire...and when it's a team that can torch you all of a sudden like Dallas can, you're gonna get burned. It's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when".

So that's a recipe for a loss and that's been the recipe for pretty much all of the Skins losses this year.

There's no reason why we shouldn't have beat Dallas. All I know is that the O-line better get it together...10-6 or 11-5 ain't a pipe dream, but if the O-line continues to crap the bed like they've been doing, the Skins will be watching the playoffs from home this year.

Added to that, Zorn's playcalling -which was brilliant in the early season- has completley sucked in these past two losses. I know the answer isn't to go deep on every drive, but with a guy like Moss and a guy like Devin Thomas who is a speed burner and tall, the Skins should be heaving it up 4-5 times a game. I know the West Coast Offense is built on short passes and slants, but you have to keep defenses honest. And it was a bomb to Moss that sealed a win for us against the Cardinals, so it's not like we haven't hit any deep passes this year at all.

O-line play and playcalling need to be addressed. The Skins offense has too much talent on it to be sputtering along like it is. It's making me sick.

[Mad Mark]

When you only give up 14 points, and lose, the problem does not lie with the defense.
To be fair, however, absent those two picks the Redskins wind up losing big...at least by 28-10, if not worse.