Jin Soo Kim Denied Eligibility by NCAA Clearinghouse

[Danielos38]

Nothing is official yet, but this doesn't bode well. I have to say, I'm not too surprised. We really could have used a pure shooter though.

updated link to article (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/terrapins-insider/2008/11/jin_soo_kim_denied_eligibility.html)

[Jagwar]

Man... I would love it if MD was somehow able to have the recruiting process be normal. Mosley aside... this is freaking ridiculous

[BaltimoreTerp]

Well, he was supposed to be for next year anyway, so we were just trying to get lucky, and that's not something that this team is good at (the individual players, on the other hand...:laughlol:).

[inmn]

Md has to follow the same rules and guidelines everyone else does and as we saw in the Gilchrist situation rules are rules. A big part of GW's job (and his assistants) is admin and frankly he sucks at it because he doesn't want to be bothered with it. It is his job to work with the compliance experts to ensure Gilchrist and Kim are eligible and to do the due diligence on Evans or move on to other recruits....you can't afford to tie up time with guys who aren't going be qualify. Kim never would have been moved up if we didn't run into the JUCO mess last year.

[Flosman]

The link did not work so a couple questions. Does this mean anything other than he will become part of next years class? What is the issue over him qualifing?

[Danielos38]

The link did not work so a couple questions. Does this mean anything other than he will become part of next years class? What is the issue over him qualifing?

Sorry about that. The link should work now.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Md has to follow the same rules and guidelines everyone else does and as we saw in the Gilchrist situation rules are rules. A big part of GW's job (and his assistants) is admin and frankly he sucks at it because he doesn't want to be bothered with it. It is his job to work with the compliance experts to ensure Gilchrist and Kim are eligible and to do the due diligence on Evans or move on to other recruits....you can't afford to tie up time with guys who aren't going be qualify. Kim never would have been moved up if we didn't run into the JUCO mess last year.

So...you just aren't going to bother looking at what happened?

[inmn]

So...you just aren't going to bother looking at what happened?

I do not understand your point.

He took correspondence courses via the Internet to graduate early, the NCAA will not recognize the courses due to previous verification issues. This should and could have been approved prior to taking the courses if Md and GW via extension had done their job.

Kim may be approved, and I hope he is but if the appeal fails I believe he is barred for playing for MD due to ACC rules. This is another in a long list of administrative issues that have really hurt the program and embarrassed the university. I love GW as a coach but there is much more to his job than coaching, unless he gets the right support (he should have at least one top experienced coach, not the retreads he has now) and recruits Md is will continue to watch the NCAA's ever year.

No other University sponsored program (or other ACC program) is having the issues Maryland Mens Basketball is experiencing.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I do not understand your point.

He took correspondence courses via the Internet to graduate early, the NCAA will not recognize the courses due to previous verification issues. This should and could have been approved prior to taking the courses if Md and GW via extension had done their job.

Kim may be approved, and I hope he is but if the appeal fails I believe he is barred for playing for MD due to ACC rules. This is another in a long list of administrative issues that have really hurt the program and embarrassed the university. I love GW as a coach but there is much more to his job than coaching, unless he gets the right support (he should have at least one top experienced coach, not the retreads he has now) and recruits Md is will continue to watch the NCAA's ever year.

No other University sponsored program (or other ACC program) is having the issues Maryland Mens Basketball is experiencing.

He is not "barred", as has already been said. He'll be ineligible until he gets the appropriate grades from a JuCo or another course.

And it sounds to me like a lot of the questions over the courses comes from taking them in Korea, which he had to do.

[inmn]

He is not "barred", as has already been said. He'll be ineligible until he gets the appropriate grades from a JuCo or another course.

And it sounds to me like a lot of the questions over the courses comes from taking them in Korea, which he had to do.

Although I could be wrong, that is not my understanding as per the below similar situation. Kim would be an enrolled non qualifier and as such inelgible to play in the ACC. I'm not saying any of this makes sense but you have to know the rules and MD is really screwing up.

"Freshman combo guard Darrion Pellum has been enrolled at Virginia Tech since classes started and has been practicing with the basketball team this fall, but he found out recently that the NCAA Clearinghouse, which determines freshman athletic eligibility, has ruled him ineligible to play for Virginia Tech.

Under the NCAA's sliding scale, Pellum entered Virginia Tech with a qualifying combination of high school GPA and SAT scores, but the Clearinghouse took exception to Pellum's SAT and forced him to take it again this month. Mark Berman of the Roanoke Times spoke with Pellum's former high school coach, Hampton High's Walter Brower, and reported:

Pellum will finish the fall semester at Virginia Tech and will transfer to a junior college. He will never play for the Hokies or any other ACC school. The ACC does not allow its schools to admit freshman non-qualfiers, and though some non-qualifiers can later transfer to ACC schools, Pellum cannot, because he had already enrolled at Tech."

http://www.techsideline.com/news_archive/showArticle-3153.php

[ccbird]

Although I could be wrong, that is not my understanding as per the below similar situation. Kim would be an enrolled non qualifier and as such inelgible to play in the ACC. I'm not saying any of this makes sense but you have to know the rules and MD is really screwing up.

"Freshman combo guard Darrion Pellum has been enrolled at Virginia Tech since classes started and has been practicing with the basketball team this fall, but he found out recently that the NCAA Clearinghouse, which determines freshman athletic eligibility, has ruled him ineligible to play for Virginia Tech.

Under the NCAA's sliding scale, Pellum entered Virginia Tech with a qualifying combination of high school GPA and SAT scores, but the Clearinghouse took exception to Pellum's SAT and forced him to take it again this month. Mark Berman of the Roanoke Times spoke with Pellum's former high school coach, Hampton High's Walter Brower, and reported:

Pellum will finish the fall semester at Virginia Tech and will transfer to a junior college. He will never play for the Hokies or any other ACC school. The ACC does not allow its schools to admit freshman non-qualfiers, and though some non-qualifiers can later transfer to ACC schools, Pellum cannot, because he had already enrolled at Tech."

http://www.techsideline.com/news_archive/showArticle-3153.php

This is the rule I've heard some people talk about and it certainly seems as though it would apply to Kim as well. That said, I don't think anyone has confirmed that and we still have some places reporting that he can go to JUCO and come back. Either way, Maryland screwed over Kim. I feel bad for this kid, obviously he was only doing what the people in the program were telling him to do. What an absolute disappointment this program has been on and off the court for the last 5 years.

[Ruzious]

Md has to follow the same rules and guidelines everyone else does and as we saw in the Gilchrist situation rules are rules. A big part of GW's job (and his assistants) is admin and frankly he sucks at it because he doesn't want to be bothered with it. It is his job to work with the compliance experts to ensure Gilchrist and Kim are eligible and to do the due diligence on Evans or move on to other recruits....you can't afford to tie up time with guys who aren't going be qualify. Kim never would have been moved up if we didn't run into the JUCO mess last year.
In his 30 years of being a head coach of NCAA schools, has he ever had significant problems before this offseason?

[inmn]

In his 30 years of being a head coach of NCAA schools, has he ever had significant problems before this offseason?

The last 4-5 years have been a mess: the NIT fiasco, Clark, McCray, Moxley, Adams, not back-filling the PG slot for Gilchrest-it just goes on and on. I think most of the admin issues are the result of lack of experience and attention to detail by his assistants but ultimately it is GW's responsibility.

GW excels at teaching and coaching-there is no one better-but there are other aspects to the job that are as important like recruiting. What I would like to know is why we can't attract a top flight assistant-you need a young guy like Booth but Chuck and Harrington are retreads no one else would consider. I hear Chuck is making contacts earlier than Md has in the past but I question his judgement in going after Maze, Evans, and Bowman last year. They've signed two OK recruits but were shut out ('09 and "10) in the local area which was loaded with talent.

It was nice to see the Women's team ranked 3rd but the men's team with a somewhat veteran squad did not receive one vote......

[Hallas]

I really wonder how much of GW's administrative problems have to do with Yow. He's only really sucked at this aspect since the reports of Yow's and Williams' less-than-stellar relationship started to pick up additional steam.


The last 4-5 years have been a mess: the NIT fiasco, Clark, McCray, Moxley, Adams, not back-filling the PG slot for Gilchrest-it just goes on and on. I think most of the admin issues are the result of lack of experience and attention to detail by his assistants but ultimately it is GW's responsibility.

GW excels at teaching and coaching-there is no one better-but there are other aspects to the job that are as important like recruiting. What I would like to know is why we can't attract a top flight assistant-you need a young guy like Booth but Chuck and Harrington are retreads no one else would consider. I hear Chuck is making contacts earlier than Md has in the past but I question his judgement in going after Maze, Evans, and Bowman last year. They've signed two OK recruits but were shut out ('09 and "10) in the local area which was loaded with talent.

It was nice to see the Women's team ranked 3rd but the men's team with a somewhat veteran squad did not receive one vote......

[Ruzious]

The last 4-5 years have been a mess: the NIT fiasco, Clark, McCray, Moxley, Adams, not back-filling the PG slot for Gilchrest-it just goes on and on. I think most of the admin issues are the result of lack of experience and attention to detail by his assistants but ultimately it is GW's responsibility.

What Hallas said.

Btw, who are Clark and Moxley, what does "back-filling" mean, and does anyone care about the NIT? McCray was supposedly the only player he's had in 30 years that flunked out.

[Lucky Jim]

What Hallas said.

Btw, who are Clark and Moxley, what does "back-filling" mean, and does anyone care about the NIT? McCray was supposedly the only player he's had in 30 years that flunked out.

Shane Clark: committed and then gone.
Rob Moxley: hired and then left.
NIT: where Maryland goes too regularly.
Back-filling: making sure there's an adequate stop-gap for Gilcrist's early departure.

I think it's legitimate to worry about the state of the program - and the administrative nightmares have been legion. I can't blame Yow. There's really no excuse for these past few years. I mean, McCray may be the only player who's flunked out - but it happened recently, not 20 years ago. In combination with pathetic graduation rates, there's no excuse.

[Tony-OH]

The last 4-5 years have been a mess: the NIT fiasco, Clark, McCray, Moxley, Adams, not back-filling the PG slot for Gilchrest-it just goes on and on. I think most of the admin issues are the result of lack of experience and attention to detail by his assistants but ultimately it is GW's responsibility.

GW excels at teaching and coaching-there is no one better-but there are other aspects to the job that are as important like recruiting. What I would like to know is why we can't attract a top flight assistant-you need a young guy like Booth but Chuck and Harrington are retreads no one else would consider. I hear Chuck is making contacts earlier than Md has in the past but I question his judgement in going after Maze, Evans, and Bowman last year. They've signed two OK recruits but were shut out ('09 and "10) in the local area which was loaded with talent.

It was nice to see the Women's team ranked 3rd but the men's team with a somewhat veteran squad did not receive one vote......


I certainly appreciate the effort, but the one thing I've learned is that GW's fans are like kool aid drinking cult followers. You can not convince them that GW is not God himself. No matter how much proof you have from everything from the worse graduation rates, poor recruiting, poor admin, to poor performance on the court, they will never ever allow that although GW may have been good at one time, but his time has passed and this program will never achieve greatness again as long as he's allowed to stay on as coach.

I've just learned to stop arguing with them because it's like arguing politics or religion with a fanatic, you'll never change their minds.

[Mackus]

I certainly appreciate the effort, but the one thing I've learned is that GW's fans are like kool aid drinking cult followers. You can not convince them that GW is not God himself. No matter how much proof you have from everything from the worse graduation rates, poor recruiting, poor admin, to poor performance on the court, they will never ever allow that although GW may have been good at one time, but his time has passed and this program will never achieve greatness again as long as he's allowed to stay on as coach.

I've just learned to stop arguing with them because it's like arguing politics or religion with a fanatic, you'll never change their minds.Theres a difference between admitting there are problems that need to be fixed and thinking that Gary is incapable of fixing them.

[glenn__davis]

Sheesh, Tony. Hyperbolize much? "Kool-aid drinking cult followers"? "God himself"? I'm a big GW supporter and I certainly wouldn't describe myself like that, nor would I describe anyone else on here like that from what I've seen. In fact, I think I've seen just about everyone on here criticize him at some point. Like Mackus said, we acknowledge the problems, we just disagree that Gary can't correct them.

[Ruzious]

I certainly appreciate the effort, but the one thing I've learned is that GW's fans are like kool aid drinking cult followers. You can not convince them that GW is not God himself. No matter how much proof you have from everything from the worse graduation rates, poor recruiting, poor admin, to poor performance on the court, they will never ever allow that although GW may have been good at one time, but his time has passed and this program will never achieve greatness again as long as he's allowed to stay on as coach.

I've just learned to stop arguing with them because it's like arguing politics or religion with a fanatic, you'll never change their minds.
There's no call for that. No doubt - I give Gary the benefit of the doubt, but I think I've always been reasonable about it - as others have. You saying point blank that Maryland will never acheive greatness again as long he's allowed to stay on as coach is at least a bit over the top. And since you brought it up, who would you replace him with - that would bring MD to greatness? Joe Paterno is not available. ;)

[rooter]

I certainly appreciate the effort, but the one thing I've learned is that GW's fans are like kool aid drinking cult followers. You can not convince them that GW is not God himself. No matter how much proof you have from everything from the worse graduation rates, poor recruiting, poor admin, to poor performance on the court, they will never ever allow that although GW may have been good at one time, but his time has passed and this program will never achieve greatness again as long as he's allowed to stay on as coach.

I've just learned to stop arguing with them because it's like arguing politics or religion with a fanatic, you'll never change their minds.
Of course, your side of the issue requires a similar faith - that your opinion is right and everyone else is wrong. Can't say you come off much better. Both sides are somewhat right.

[BaltimoreTerp]

There's no call for that. No doubt - I give Gary the benefit of the doubt, but I think I've always been reasonable about it - as others have. You saying point blank that Maryland will never acheive greatness again as long he's allowed to stay on as coach is at least a bit over the top. And since you brought it up, who would you replace him with - that would bring MD to greatness? Joe Paterno is not available. ;)

Paterno? I thought they fired that old geezer years ago! He never could turn that program around!

[BaltimoreTerp]

As posted in the other thread:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/terrapins-insider/2008/11/kim_declared_eligible.html

He's in.

[Mackus]

So Gary can keep his job :rolleyes:

Good news, hopefully he can contribute something this year. Outside shooting is definitely a weak point of the team, but he'll have to be able to do more than shoot to get any serious playing time. I haven't seen him play but theres very little chance he's as good as Mike Jones was with the pure jumpshot, and he didn't get much PT at all until he cleaned up his defense and ball control problems a little bit.

[Tony-OH]

Of course, your side of the issue requires a similar faith - that your opinion is right and everyone else is wrong. Can't say you come off much better. Both sides are somewhat right.

Nope. I can admit that Gary williams was a good coach, but I have way too much actual fact in front of me that says he let this program run itself into the ground.

Why do people believe he's suddenly going to change? Guys like Williams, who believes in his own God-like status on campus, will ever start to do anythig differently.

My final straw was when I read the article last year on how the Women's program spent more money on recruiting then the lazy Williams did. The fact that he returned money to the University because he was too lazy to go out and recruit the kinds of kids that need that coddling, the kind that need the coach to show them the love, is exactly why we have to get excited about Kim being accepted.

I know it's sounds harsh, but I'm as fed up with Williams as I was Billick. They lived way too long off of their one championship.

I'll always root for the Terps, and I hope Williams does turn things around and make me eat my words, but to me we're just wasting years and time.