New? trade partners for Ramon

[GotNitro]

Just saw this on the bottom of a Roch blog:

"lftyg33 said:
Do you know what teams are looking at Ramon Hernandez? What might the O's get in return for Ramon. Also, if Ramon is traded, does that make Matt Weiters the starting catcher?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detroit and Cincinnati are two of the rumored teams. If Ramon is traded, chances are pretty good that Wieters is the starting catcher on Opening Day. But if he doesn't look ready in spring training, the Orioles won't rush him. - Roch

November 17, 2008 6:26 PM"

http://masnsports.com/2008/11/minor-league-signings-1.html

I have not heard of these two teams being interested in him. I apologize if I missed it somewhere. I would love some input from the Reds and Tigers analysts as to what they might give up for him. I assume it would be a low to mid level prospect.

[Sports Guy]

Wieters should go to the minors until April 15 whether we deal Ramon or not.

We should be getting rid of Ramon for whatever we can get and eat as little salary as possible.

[Birds08]

Wieters should go to the minors until April 15 whether we deal Ramon or not.

We should be getting rid of Ramon for whatever we can get and eat as little salary as possible.

Agreed. If we don't leave him in the minors until that date, it is beyond incompetent. I don't care if we need to bring back BJ Surhoff to catch for two weeks.

[GotNitro]

I have a feeling Zaun will be our catcher the first two weeks. I agree Ramon needs to go this off-season, just thought it was interesting to see these some new teams pop up with possible interest.

[Peace21]

I think if we do trade Ramon, we can still find a good serviceable catcher to fill the time until Wieters is ready to come up. I see Wieters being called up late May early June.

[PaulBako]

Ramon, Reimold, and Bergeson for Bailey?

[bird watcher]

Ramon, Reimold, and Bergeson for Bailey?

Giving too much there.

[Anonymous]

Wieters should go to the minors until April 15 whether we deal Ramon or not.
We should be getting rid of Ramon for whatever we can get and eat as little salary as possible.Yes -- unless he's extended before the season starts, which would make this issue go away.

[GotNitro]

Giving too much there.

Agree. How about Ramon + Penn or Ramon + DCab? I would love to package one of those two out.

[wickedwitch]

Ramon, Reimold, and Bergeson for Bailey?

I'd do that.

[wildcard]

Ramon to the Reds for Alex Gonzalez and Freel?

Or to the Tigers for Nate Robertson?

[PaulBako]

Agree. How about Ramon + Penn or Ramon + DCab? I would love to package one of those two out.

I would do the Ramon + DCab in a heartbeat. We would give our terrible catcher and terrible pitcher for a guy with potential.

[wickedwitch]

Agree. How about Ramon + Penn or Ramon + DCab? I would love to package one of those two out.

Are we talking about the same Bailey here? Those packages wouldn't even get the hat from his head.

Hell, I'm not sure those packages would get the hat from anyone's head.

[PaulBako]

Ramon to the Reds for Alex Gonzalez and Freel?

Or to the Tigers for Nate Robertson?

I would say no Nate Robertson. Terrible and extremely expensive.

Though I would do Ramon for Gonzalez,Freel and Farney.

[NATTYBO's]

would you take on D willis contract for Ramon?

[Sports Guy]

would you take on D willis contract for Ramon?

No....Wouldn't consider Willis or Robertson.

Alex Gonzalez had a good year last year and it wouldn't surprise me if a Ramon for Gonzo deal would interest both sides.

I think that is a lazy move personally but we save money and get our SS for 2009....Not a move I would do but a move I could see AM making.

[GotNitro]

Are we talking about the same Bailey here? Those packages wouldn't even get the hat from his head.

Hell, I'm not sure those packages would get the hat from anyone's head.

I really don't like putting Reimold in the package. What about Ramon, DCab, and Penn? They get an innings eater that could still develope:rolleyes: and Penn does have some potential if he stays in a bubble.

[Sports Guy]

Are we talking about the same Bailey here? Those packages wouldn't even get the hat from his head.

Hell, I'm not sure those packages would get the hat from anyone's head.

Bailey's stock has dropped a lot.

You would think that the idea of Bailey for Ramon would be a joke and I agree that it is...But trades as dumb as that one have happened in the past and it wouldn't shock me if that deal happened.

That being said, no way you could expect that in a million years.

[Belkast]

would you take on D willis contract for Ramon?

Yes I would. I would love to see him have another chance and it being in Baltimore.

[NATTYBO's]

Yes I would. I would love to see him have another chance and it being in Baltimore.

3 years/$29M (2008-10)

signed extension 12/20/07 (avoided arbitration)
08:$7M, 09:$10M, 10:$12M

- I think he may be worth the risk as a 4-5th starter

[bigbird]

Just saw this on the bottom of a Roch blog:

"lftyg33 said:
Do you know what teams are looking at Ramon Hernandez? What might the O's get in return for Ramon. Also, if Ramon is traded, does that make Matt Weiters the starting catcher?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detroit and Cincinnati are two of the rumored teams. If Ramon is traded, chances are pretty good that Wieters is the starting catcher on Opening Day. But if he doesn't look ready in spring training, the Orioles won't rush him. - Roch

November 17, 2008 6:26 PM"

http://masnsports.com/2008/11/minor-league-signings-1.html

I have not heard of these two teams being interested in him. I apologize if I missed it somewhere. I would love some input from the Reds and Tigers analysts as to what they might give up for him. I assume it would be a low to mid level prospect.

SG, Peace, Tony S, Belkast.... Wasn't this part of that PM I sent you guys yeaterday?;););)

[Peace21]

Yeah, but can Ramon get us something decent?

[Sports Guy]

SG, Peace, Tony S, Belkast.... Wasn't this part of that PM I sent you guys yeaterday?;););)

Yep

What do you think they are looking for though BB?

Is this an effort to just dump salary to put towards FA or are they hoping for a useful piece?

[ChaosLex]

Ramon for Verlander sounds fair to me. ;)

[ChaosLex]

Here's an idea. Ramon (and most of his salary) and Reimold for Bailey.

Is that fair?

[bigbird]

Yep

What do you think they are looking for though BB?

Is this an effort to just dump salary to put towards FA or are they hoping for a useful piece?

Depends on the amount of money we have to eat.

[Sports Guy]

Depends on the amount of money we have to eat.

Let's say we don't have to eat anything more than 3 million....At that point, they are just expecting a Bradford type deal I assume, right?

[NATTYBO's]

Depends on the amount of money we have to eat.

Do you think there is anyway we take on a contract like DWillis or would we have to give up more??

[Peace21]

Let's say we don't have to eat anything more than 3 million....At that point, they are just expecting a Bradford type deal I assume, right?

Yuck!:o That sounds like a dump.

[Sports Guy]

Yuck!:o That sounds like a dump.

Dump...yes

But that would be 6-8 million more to give to Tex.

[Richmond Bird 9]

SportsGuy....Gonzalez was out all last year...and unsure if he starts 2009 on the DL. Also I have been saying Hernandez for Robertson or a 2nd name/trade option is Carlos Guillen...We would have to get money back because of his big contract plus a good young player back.

[incubus]

No....Wouldn't consider Willis or Robertson.

Alex Gonzalez had a good year last year and it wouldn't surprise me if a Ramon for Gonzo deal would interest both sides.

I think that is a lazy move personally but we save money and get our SS for 2009....Not a move I would do but a move I could see AM making.

foxsports.com doesn't have any 2008 stats on alex gonzalez, his 2007 seemed good enough for me, but his salary is a little higher than I'd like.
Although, if we were talking straight up trade ramon for gonzo, Id take it in a heartbeat. Fill our SS hole, and drop some salary to boot.

[incubus]

Here's an idea. Ramon (and most of his salary) and Reimold for Bailey.

Is that fair?

Homer Bailey? the guy with the 0-6 record and 7.93 ERA last year?
One question, Why?

[blackandorange]

Doesn't D. Willis and our pitching coach have a history together? Didn't they work together in Florida? If I'm correct, I'd eat that salary and hope we can straighten him out.

[Hank Scorpio]

Homer Bailey? the guy with the 0-6 record and 7.93 ERA last year?
One question, Why?

Because he's a minor league beast and he was the 9th overall ML prospect at the beginning of '08?

He's 22, he'll get better.

But there's no way we'd get him for Ramon & Reimold.

[WietersOvechkin]

Homer Bailey? the guy with the 0-6 record and 7.93 ERA last year?
One question, Why?

He is a great buy low guy. As long as it doesn't cost us a lot I say go for it. He could be our 3rd or 4th starter next year.

[Lt Melmo]

Why would the Reds sell low on Bailey? Wasn't Krivsky fired?

[incubus]

yeah but he gave up a homerun per game last year, and I wouldn't be surprised if it would be worse in the yard. I don't consider dealing Reimold plus for him, buying low.
I'll take him for Walker straight up.

[REDMAN]

How about hernadez for igawa straight up?Igawa has about 12 million dollars left and was the triple A lefty all-star pitcher!Then sign Zaun.

[Sports Guy]

I don't really want Robertson either, but I think you can do worse. I'd certainly rather have him than Willis or Jason Marquis.

I've seen a couple of sites which have listed Robertson as a good buy low opportunity this offseason. Based on his cumulative numbers from the last three seasons I could see him posting a 4.66 ERA for the Orioles (the Bill James Handbook has him projected to put up a 4.77 ERA).

Again, I'd rather get someone else, but you can certainly do worse than Nate Robertson.
He makes 10 million in 2010..that's my issue.

[eric0668]

Because he's a minor league beast and he was the 9th overall ML prospect at the beginning of '08?

He's 22, he'll get better.

But there's no way we'd get him for Ramon & Reimold.

But a bird in the hand... Isn't Bergesen going to be a quality starter. Not saying as good as Bailey (or any worse for that matter), but that was one of the mentioned trades. Would you really do that trade - Hernandez (and any others) for Bailey?

[Hank Scorpio]

But a bird in the hand... Isn't Bergesen going to be a quality starter. Not saying as good as Bailey (or any worse for that matter), but that was one of the mentioned trades. Would you really do that trade - Hernandez (and any others) for Bailey?

Depends on who the others were... but good heavens, yes.

I'd be happy to get a bag of potting soil for Ramon Hernandez, seriously.

[Cire]

Should they try to trade before or after Varitek and Pudge sign?

[Greg Pappas]

Ramon, Reimold, and Bergeson for Bailey?


Giving too much there.


Agree. How about Ramon + Penn or Ramon + DCab? I would love to package one of those two out.

I would take that deal, although the Reds wouldn't.

[WietersOvechkin]

I would take that deal, although the Reds wouldn't.

I mean Dusty Baker loves pitchers who can throw 130 pitches each game. Look at Livan Hernandez and Russ Ortiz in San Fran, Wood and Prior in Chicago, and this year with Volquez and Cueto. I am just saying that DCab would fit right in.

[Mike B]

Wieters should go to the minors until April 15 whether we deal Ramon or not.

We should be getting rid of Ramon for whatever we can get and eat as little salary as possible.

Agree 100 %. I really do not think we have any idea how bad Ramon is for our young pitchers. As for Wieters, even if he is Babe Ruth is ST we should be patient. It delays the inevitable clash with Boras for another year.

[Mike B]

Are we talking about the same Bailey here? Those packages wouldn't even get the hat from his head.

Hell, I'm not sure those packages would get the hat from anyone's head.

I do not think the Reds would make that trade but Bailey is not as highly thought of as he once was. The reason they would not do that deal is payroll. All that said I would trade Ramon for Beetle Bailey.

[wildcard]

SportsGuy....Gonzalez was out all last year...and unsure if he starts 2009 on the DL. Also I have been saying Hernandez for Robertson or a 2nd name/trade option is Carlos Guillen...We would have to get money back because of his big contract plus a good young player back.

Gonzalez is supposed to be healthy after the first of the the year. The O's may be watching his progress. Its a wait and see game.

[Dipper9]

Yes -- unless he's extended before the season starts, which would make this issue go away.

Yeah, cause the snail paced MacPhail doesn't have enough to do already, right? :rolleyes:

[Anonymous]

Yeah, cause the snail paced MacPhail doesn't have enough to do already, right? :rolleyes:Fair enough. But a Weiters extension can be completed the day before the season starts -- unlike just about everything else on the to-do list.

[Tx Oriole]

I would if the Willis contract is not too expensive. He was a good pitcher at one time. Then fell off the table. But why not take a chance on him if all you ahd to give up was Ramon? But i do belive they would want more than just Ramon coming abck to them in a trade.

[Dipper9]

Fair enough. But a Weiters extension can be completed the day before the season starts -- unlike just about everything else on the to-do list.

Just playing with ya man. I also want Weiters signed long term, but that priority is WAY down the list of things MacPhail needs to get done. I'd like to see Zaun in here as backup catcher and starter for the first month. Let Weiters have a few weeks down in the minors to alleviate that stupid rule (that I still see no positive for either the team or the player) and then bring Weiters up and let Zaun start about 2 games a week. Zaun will be back with his uncle, able to play a fair amount of games, AND be able to mentor a young stud. I see no reason why Zaun will not be an Oriole next season.

[Richmond Bird 9]

Sports Guys, yes he is owed 10 mil in 2010. However using creative accounting we are/would be trading 1 yr/9 mil (Hernandez) for 2 yrs/17 mil (Robertson) or a net gain of Robertson for 2yrs/8 mil. Then you trade Cabrera for a SS. I would rather have Robertson than Cabrera with the big PLUS that we have moved Hernandez w/o sending any cash. The Tigers can send us
a C+ prospect back.

We need to start (yesterday) moving parts that we can move to fill holes that we have (3/4 SP and a SS) and go hard after Tex and A J, also remembering how much money comes off the book next year.

[Sports Guy]

Sports Guys, yes he is owed 10 mil in 2010. However using creative accounting we are/would be trading 1 yr/9 mil (Hernandez) for 2 yrs/17 mil (Robertson) or a net gain of Robertson for 2yrs/8 mil. Then you trade Cabrera for a SS. I would rather have Robertson than Cabrera with the big PLUS that we have moved Hernandez w/o sending any cash. The Tigers can send us
a C+ prospect back.

We need to start (yesterday) moving parts that we can move to fill holes that we have (3/4 SP and a SS) and go hard after Tex and A J, also remembering how much money comes off the book next year.

I am aware of this...the net gain on the payroll is 8 million over 2 years.

The idea is to not have the money on the payroll for 2010.

[Black & Orange]

Yes I would. I would love to see him have another chance and it being in Baltimore.

This is an interesting thought because Kranitz has worked with Willis before... ;)

[TonySoprano]

SG, Peace, Tony S, Belkast.... Wasn't this part of that PM I sent you guys yeaterday?;););)Your source still comes through.

[bigbird]

Your source still comes through.


You can add the Mets as a team that has called about Ramon.

[ChaosLex]

You can add the Mets as a team that has called about Ramon.

Heilman for R. Hernandez?

[BRob51]

You can add the Mets as a team that has called about Ramon.

Jose Reyes solves the SS problem!!!:D

[Boca Bird]

I mean Dusty Baker loves pitchers who can throw 130 pitches each game. Look at Livan Hernandez and Russ Ortiz in San Fran, Wood and Prior in Chicago, and this year with Volquez and Cueto. I am just saying that DCab would fit right in.



No fair mentioning that name when I'm trying to have my breakfast :puke::puke:

[PaulBako]

Jose Reyes solves the SS problem!!!:D

Remember, we already got him! :rofl:

[neveradoubt]

Just saw this on the bottom of a Roch blog:

"lftyg33 said:
Do you know what teams are looking at Ramon Hernandez? What might the O's get in return for Ramon. Also, if Ramon is traded, does that make Matt Weiters the starting catcher?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detroit and Cincinnati are two of the rumored teams. If Ramon is traded, chances are pretty good that Wieters is the starting catcher on Opening Day. But if he doesn't look ready in spring training, the Orioles won't rush him. - Roch

November 17, 2008 6:26 PM"

http://masnsports.com/2008/11/minor-league-signings-1.html

I have not heard of these two teams being interested in him. I apologize if I missed it somewhere. I would love some input from the Reds and Tigers analysts as to what they might give up for him. I assume it would be a low to mid level prospect.

The Mets are trying to get rid of Schneider. They could be interested in Ramon

[SBOriole]

The Ramon for Willis trade might be a dud (if people were actually interested in it) because it seems the Tigers are looking into Jack Wislon and could get involved in a three way trade with the Pirates, Tigers, and Marlins (Matt Treanor being a target).
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/11/tigers-intere-2.html

And with the Sox thinking about a Lugo for Willis trade.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/11/cafardos-late-1.html

A trade with the Mets could be interesting, but we might have better luck just trying to package him.

[Skeletor]

Ramon still has some value as a spot catcher and a DH/1B. He's lazy as hell but still has some pop. He could net some value.

[Anonymous]

Honestly if there is even 1 team calling about Ramon there's no excuse why he would be on the team for 2009.What if they were calling just to laugh at us?

[ChaosLex]

... then shouldn't we have a deal put together by now?

Just a few months ago, it seemed as though everyone was happy with a R. Hernandez deal, provided we got a "bag of baseballs" in return. I'm certainly no GM, but I don't see why simple deals like this have to drag out so long when it comes to the O's. It certainly doesn't seem that way with other teams. But then again, maybe that's just the pessimist in me talking.

What do you guys (and gals) think?

[BaltimoreTerp]

... then shouldn't we have a deal put together by now?

Just a few months ago, it seemed as though everyone was happy with a R. Hernandez deal, provided we got a "bag of baseballs" in return. I'm certainly no GM, but I don't see why simple deals like this have to drag out so long when it comes to the O's. It certainly doesn't seem that way with other teams. But then again, maybe that's just the pessimist in me talking.

What do you guys (and gals) think?

That if that many teams actually want him, then there is no reason to just take that theoretical "bag of baseballs" and try to get some value back.

Plus, there is the whole idea of not wanting to rush Wieters (whether one agrees or not), and not wanting to just dump him when he very easily could be our starter for another season.

I'm not saying any of it is right, just that those are some reasons.

[24fps]

Maybe it's the amount of his salary they want the O's to eat that's the sticking point.

[Moose Milligan]

Maybe this is what's holding up Tex. :rolleyestf:

;)

[Belkast]

Keep in mind, just because teams have expressed interest in him, doesn't mean that they are ready to make a deal. Sometimes interest is established and put on hold to see how the make up of their roster will unfold. I expect he will get traded but I think it will be a late offseason trade IF it happens. Just my opinion.......

[scOtt]

Maybe this is what's holding up Tex. :rolleyestf:

;)

Exactly. If trading Ramon is at the top of AM's list right now, the Orioles are doomed. Ramon'll get traded, eventually. Andy has his plate full at the moment.




Patience, young grasshoppers :new_wave:

[bigbird]

It's my understanding that the front office is split on what to do with Weiters in 2009.

[scOtt]

That if that many teams actually want him, then there is no reason to just take that theoretical "bag of baseballs" and try to get some value back.

Plus, there is the whole idea of not wanting to rush Wieters (whether one agrees or not), and not wanting to just dump him when he very easily could be our starter for another season.

I'm not saying any of it is right, just that those are some reasons.
I missed that too. Ramon, even with his salary we will have to pay part of, does have significant value. I thought not before, bag-a-balls.

[JTrea81]

It's my understanding that the front office is split on what to do with Weiters in 2009.

Either way, Ramon was more a detriment to this team than a help in 2008. They've got to get a catcher who actually gives a hoot and can help the pitcher behind HP. In essence you'd probably be paying 6-8 million for a backup catcher after combining their salary with what you eat from Ramon's, but at least that catcher would help the pitchers...

[clapdiddy]

It's my understanding that the front office is split on what to do with Weiters in 2009.

I don't care what the front office wants to do with Wieters in 2009...if they get someone who wants to take Hernandez off our hands, we should jump on it.

Although, I think the latest he should be on this team is May 1.

[scOtt]

It's my understanding that the front office is split on what to do with Weiters in 2009.
You mean keep him down til say... MAY?

[clapdiddy]

You mean keep him down til say... MAY?

Great minds...;)

[scOtt]

Great minds...;)
Indeed. Enter the Dragon just started on the G4 network, btw. Just a public FYI...

[ChaosLex]

It's my understanding that the front office is split on what to do with Weiters in 2009.

The O's FO boggles me at times. If we don't sign Tex and/or Burnett, we should be cutting salary and going young. Sign a stopgap catcher for peanuts and then bring up Wieters a few weeks into the season? It's blatantly obvious to a majority (at least, I hope) of our fans that we're not going to contend next year, why worry about hanging onto R. Hernandez?

[Moose Milligan]

It's my understanding that the front office is split on what to do with Weiters in 2009.

No way man, c'mon.

If they're gonna do with Wieters like Tampa did with Longoria this year, that's fine...

But I swear, leaving him down any longer is completely unacceptable.

My big fear is that...they wait too long to call him up and he gets enough at bats to technically qualify for the ROY but loses out to Price. IMO, writers already want to hand that award over to Price already, it's practically giftwrapped. Wieters has an uphill battle to win that thing, but has no chance if the O's keep him in the minors too long and Price gets off to a good start.

I know that's silly, but the O's need something to feel good about in addition to Nick and Jones. If Wieters were to win the ROY, it'd shine more light on our youth movement and bring a little bit of much needed recognition to the team.

I can easily see the O's screwing that up and bringing him up after the all star break and ruining any ROY chances.

Oh wait, this is about Hernandez, right? :D

Trade him! It's not Bedard, it's not Tejada, we don't have to sit and wait to get multiple top level prospects from teams. Take a good minor leaguer or two, eat some salary and get on with it.

[TyCobb]

No way man, c'mon.

If they're gonna do with Wieters like Tampa did with Longoria this year, that's fine...

But I swear, leaving him down any longer is completely unacceptable.

My big fear is that...they wait too long to call him up and he gets enough at bats to technically qualify for the ROY but loses out to Price. IMO, writers already want to hand that award over to Price already, it's practically giftwrapped. Wieters has an uphill battle to win that thing, but has no chance if the O's keep him in the minors too long and Price gets off to a good start.

I know that's silly, but the O's need something to feel good about in addition to Nick and Jones. If Wieters were to win the ROY, it'd shine more light on our youth movement and bring a little bit of much needed recognition to the team.

I can easily see the O's screwing that up and bringing him up after the all star break and ruining any ROY chances.

Oh wait, this is about Hernandez, right? :D

Trade him! It's not Bedard, it's not Tejada, we don't have to sit and wait to get multiple top level prospects from teams. Take a good minor leaguer or two, eat some salary and get on with it.

Ramon needs to be traded ASAP.

I don't think Wieters has to worry about anything. Yea Price is great and when I saw him last year in Spring Training I thought he was going to win MULTIPLE CY!!! Wieters has to get 130 games in with DH and C. If he does, then I don't think it will be close cause this kid is going to put up scary numbers AND he is a Catcher.

[Moose Milligan]

Ramon needs to be traded ASAP.

I don't think Wieters has to worry about anything. Yea Price is great and when I saw him last year in Spring Training I thought he was going to win MULTIPLE CY!!! Wieters has to get 130 games in with DH and C. If he does, then I don't think it will be close cause this kid is going to put up scary numbers AND he is a Catcher.

Hope you're right bro.

It's so easy for the O's...if they want to wait a month, fine. Anything longer is unacceptable.

[PHRESH]

I think they're two separate issues:

a) where does Wieters start?
b) Ramon's future with the O's

If Wieters needs a month in AAA, fine, but who says we need to keep Ramon as our OD starter? I'm sure we could simply deal him and go with any other FA catcher until Wieters is ready. I also feel Ramon needs to be traded and we're more likely to get a better deal now than after the season begins. I just hate when I see people post that we should keep Ramon in case Wieters isn't ready. Just my opinion.

[Greg Pappas]

As many of you are aware, it is likely the intention of the team to keep Wieters in AA or AAA to begin the season. The reason revolving around the Arbitration Clock (http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68458). However, some are already getting angry with the possibility that Wieters is kept longer than the Arbitration Clock requires. I'd agree, unless his struggles to begin the season.

If Wieters has a rough beginning to his minor league season, so be it... he should remain in AA or AAA (wherever they start him) until he shows he IS ready. Therein lies the difference.

Regarding Hernandez. I believe it's in our best interest that he is not an Oriole in '09, for any length of time. He should be dealt for whatever we can get for him.

[Mackus]

If Wieters has a rough beginning to his minor league season, so be it... he should remain in AA or AAA (wherever they start him) until he shows he IS ready. Therein lies the difference.15 days in AAA wouldn't prove at all that he isn't ready, even if he doesn't start off hot.

He's clearly ready. I don't even think it is remotely debatable. The only reason to leave him down is economic.

[Mackus]

Jay Bruce is an interesting comp for Wieters. He had as good of a 2007 as Wieters did a 2008.

He was called up on May 27th after 184 AAA ABs.

The year before, Ryan Braun's 2006 wasn't quite as good as Bruce or Wieters' seasons, but he did have a good year. He was called up on May 25th.

[AgentOrange]

Jay Bruce is an interesting comp for Wieters. He had as good of a 2007 as Wieters did a 2008.

He was called up on May 27th after 184 AAA ABs.

The year before, Ryan Braun's 2006 wasn't quite as good as Bruce or Wieters' seasons, but he did have a good year. He was called up on May 25th.

I think Jay Bruce is a very interesting comp. Just for the fact that the reds are in shambles as well. Bruce was a big deal and the fact that he wasn't on the starting roster created some buzz.

He is a bit younger though and started with the Reds organization at age 19.

Matt was the consensus big bat in the draft and over performed his year one MiL projections that were already quite high.

I will say, since Wieters is a catcher, there is the element of calling a game and defense that is more important than say a CF, which is where Bruce plays.

[Frobby]

15 days in AAA wouldn't prove at all that he isn't ready, even if he doesn't start off hot.

He's clearly ready. I don't even think it is remotely debatable. The only reason to leave him down is economic.

I'm in favor of waiting 15 days and then bringing Wieters up. But why is it not "remotely debatable?" He hasn't played AAA at all and the O's would like him to get more experience calling games. If he's hitting .180 after those 15 days are up I'd be in no hurry.

[Cubsfan]

Maybe it's the amount of his salary they want the O's to eat that's the sticking point.

Plus the fact AM probably wants 3 top prospects for him.

[Greg Pappas]

Jay Bruce is an interesting comp for Wieters. He had as good of a 2007 as Wieters did a 2008.

He was called up on May 27th after 184 AAA ABs.

The year before, Ryan Braun's 2006 wasn't quite as good as Bruce or Wieters' seasons, but he did have a good year. He was called up on May 25th.

Right... that was why I was curious about the 15 days you mentioned earlier. Give Wieters until whenever the Orioles judge the service clock/arbitration clock timing is okay (early/mid May?), and as long as he's ready and not in a slump, bring him up. :)

[health55]

If the best offer to date is Nate Robertson (and the $19 million over two years left on his contract) straight up for Ramon Hernandez (and the $9 million for one year left his contract), should the Baltimore Orioles accept just to get the deal done?

I suspect the Orioles are prudently waiting for the best offer. Spring Training won't start for about three months, so there's no great rush.

[WietersOvechkin]

Right... that was why I was curious about the 15 days you mentioned earlier. Give Wieters until whenever the Orioles judge the service clock/arbitration clock timing is okay (early/mid May?), and as long as he's ready and not in a slump, bring him up. :)

My biggest problem with this is that I hope arbitration isn't an issue. If he is playing well then we should have his arbitration years bought out and his extra half of year under our control shouldn't matter. If he is as good as we are projecting him to be this should not be an issue. If he is ready to play in the MLB then there is no reason to wait. If he has a rookie year like Longoria or Braun then we should have him signed this year or next year to a long term deal. But knowing the Orioles... :cussing:

[24fps]

Plus the fact AM probably wants 3 top prospects for him.

I haven't heard that and I know you're probably joking, but if it's true, it would be ridiculous on AM's part. I do think he would want something of value, but at this point it has to be clear to everyone including him that Ramon's time with the O's needs to come to an end.

[wickedwitch]

My biggest problem with this is that I hope arbitration isn't an issue. If he is playing well then we should have his arbitration years bought out and his extra half of year under our control shouldn't matter. If he is as good as we are projecting him to be this should not be an issue. If he is ready to play in the MLB then there is no reason to wait. If he has a rookie year like Longoria or Braun then we should have him signed this year or next year to a long term deal. But knowing the Orioles... :cussing:

It has nothing to do with the Orioles and everything to do with Boras. He tells clients not to take extensions and wait until FA.

[WietersOvechkin]

It has nothing to do with the Orioles and everything to do with Boras. He tells clients not to take extensions and wait until FA.

6 years is a long time. On top of that he wont make contract worth anything until year 4. Therefore How much money could you really pass up for an extra year of free agency? Think about it this way if he were to take it year to year he would receive on average for the first 3 years of $500,000. That is nothing in baseball terms. The other 3 years IF he is a=everything we say he is which I know he will be he would get at best $20 million dollars for those 3 years. There is an article about how you make something like 40% of FA value the first year, 60% the 2nd and 80% the third. Therefore I think $20 million is a high estimate so if we offered him something like what the Rays offered Longoria of 9 year 44M with 17.5 guaranteed I think it would be difficult to not accept it considering it is guaranteed money.

Here is a link talking about the Longoria contract.
http://skyking162.com/2008/04/evan-longoria-math/

[Cubsfan]

I haven't heard that and I know you're probably joking, but if it's true, it would be ridiculous on AM's part. I do think he would want something of value, but at this point it has to be clear to everyone including him that Ramon's time with the O's needs to come to an end.


Yeah, I was joking. But then again, with AM you never know.

[Camden_yardbird]

No way man, c'mon.

If they're gonna do with Wieters like Tampa did with Longoria this year, that's fine...

But I swear, leaving him down any longer is completely unacceptable.

My big fear is that...they wait too long to call him up and he gets enough at bats to technically qualify for the ROY but loses out to Price. IMO, writers already want to hand that award over to Price already, it's practically giftwrapped. Wieters has an uphill battle to win that thing, but has no chance if the O's keep him in the minors too long and Price gets off to a good start.

I know that's silly, but the O's need something to feel good about in addition to Nick and Jones. If Wieters were to win the ROY, it'd shine more light on our youth movement and bring a little bit of much needed recognition to the team.

I can easily see the O's screwing that up and bringing him up after the all star break and ruining any ROY chances.

Oh wait, this is about Hernandez, right? :D

Trade him! It's not Bedard, it's not Tejada, we don't have to sit and wait to get multiple top level prospects from teams. Take a good minor leaguer or two, eat some salary and get on with it.

Ask the Pirates how much the Jason Bay ROY award meant to the future success of the team. Its a nice award to win but inconsequential in the vast scheme of things. I suppose if Wieters won this year and then one of the big three won it the next it might mean something about perceptions, but thats all.

[wickedwitch]

6 years is a long time. On top of that he wont make contract worth anything until year 4. Therefore How much money could you really pass up for an extra year of free agency? Think about it this way if he were to take it year to year he would receive on average for the first 3 years of $500,000. That is nothing in baseball terms. The other 3 years IF he is a=everything we say he is which I know he will be he would get at best $20 million dollars for those 3 years. There is an article about how you make something like 40% of FA value the first year, 60% the 2nd and 80% the third. Therefore I think $20 million is a high estimate so if we offered him something like what the Rays offered Longoria of 9 year 44M with 17.5 guaranteed I think it would be difficult to not accept it considering it is guaranteed money.

Here is a link talking about the Longoria contract.
http://skyking162.com/2008/04/evan-longoria-math/Boras's opinion:
https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/120424

Agent Scott Boras said, "There are a lot of bad deals out there. Some of these deals cost the player as much money as the money they're guaranteed. ... These deals are strongly club-oriented. I can only speak for our clients, but almost every client has benefited substantially from not signing those deals.