The Hardball Times: Brooks was the best fielder of the last 55 years

[Frobby]

I had a peak at The Hardball Times 2009 annual last night. I'm getting it for a Christmas present so I don't have it to quote, but I snuck a peak in a bookstore yesterday. There's an article in there that ranks the best fielders at each position since 1953, based on data available since that year.

According to the article, Brooks Robinson was the best fielder at any position in that time period, at +293 (which I believe means 293 plays above average), far ahead of any other 3B and pretty far ahead of any other player, period.

Moreover, the article had Mark Belanger as the top SS since 1953, narrowly edging Ozzie Smith. For good measure, Paul Blair was the 3rd-best CF, behind Andruw Jones and Willie Mays.

The article noted how amazing it was that the Orioles had three such historically great fielders all on one team. I believe it said the three saved something like 46 runs a year on defense.

If anyone out there has picked up a copy of the book, please feel free to supplement or correct this summary.

[Orioles West]

I had a peak at The Hardball Times 2009 annual last night. I'm getting it for a Christmas present so I don't have it to quote, but I snuck a peak in a bookstore yesterday. There's an article in there that ranks the best fielders at each position since 1953, based on data available since that year.

According to the article, Brooks Robinson was the best fielder at any position in that time period, at +293 (which I believe means 293 plays above average), far ahead of any other 3B and pretty far ahead of any other player, period.

Moreover, the article had Mark Belanger as the top SS since 1953, narrowly edging Ozzie Smith. For good measure, Paul Blair was the 3rd-best CF, behind Andruw Jones and Willie Mays.

The article noted how amazing it was that the Orioles had three such historically great fielders all on one team. I believe it said the three saved something like 46 runs a year on defense.

If anyone out there has picked up a copy of the book, please feel free to supplement or correct this summary.


Sounds like a book I will have to try to pick up. And people thought I was crazy over the years when I suggested Belanger was as good or better with the glove than Smith. If ESPN were around during Mark's career, more people would know how good he was.

Brooks and Blair, those are givens!

Thanks for the heads up on this.



-Don

[Boy Howdy]

It sounds like they continued to tweak the article linked below:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/measuring-defense-for-players-back-to-1956-part-2/

Will be interesting to see what changed.

[Nemyar]

Makes me wish I'd been alive to see them play. Makes me wish I'd been old enough to appreciate it the last time this team was even remotely successful, in fact.

[Frobby]

It sounds like they continued to tweak the article linked below:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/measuring-defense-for-players-back-to-1956-part-2/

Will be interesting to see what changed.

I believe you are correct. The article in the annual said it was an update on a past article, and that Mays had leapfrogged Blair due to (1) inclusion of data from a few more years, and (2) addition of new data about throwing arms.

[Lucky Jim]

Where did LH come in? ;)

I need to pick this book up, obviously.

[mweb]

Means those O's pitchers from that time were overrated.;)

And lets all rejoice regarding the worst defensive SS of the last 55 years:

Derek Jeter!:mwahaha:

[olehippi]

In reference to the stats of Brooks Robinson and Mark Belanger of the Orioles, they mention that their defensive figures could be tweaked because of Jim Palmer pitching prowess.

Something else to be considered is Palmer's fielding skills, which were far above average. So, some of those little dribblers down the 3rd base line, impossible for Brooks to field, might have been snatched up by Palmer and thrown to first for a out. And the same could be said for some of those high choppers, or squibblers headed towards Belanger at SS, which were snapped up by Palmer.

[Mackus]

Exactly how high up in the top 10 of SS was Luis Hernandez?

[Lucky Jim]

Exactly how high up in the top 10 of SS was Luis Hernandez?

You're half an hour late on that joke, my friend. ;)

[Mackus]

In reference to the stats of Brooks Robinson and Mark Belanger of the Orioles, they mention that their defensive figures could be tweaked because of Jim Palmer pitching prowess.

Something else to be considered is Palmer's fielding skills, which were far above average. So, some of those little dribblers down the 3rd base line, impossible for Brooks to field, might have been snatched up by Palmer and thrown to first for a out. And the same could be said for some of those high choppers, or squibblers headed towards Belanger at SS, which were snapped up by Palmer.
I think the bottom line is when you have both excellent pitching and excellent defense, that both sides benefit from the other.

[DrungoHazewood]

Something else to be considered is Palmer's fielding skills, which were far above average. So, some of those little dribblers down the 3rd base line, impossible for Brooks to field, might have been snatched up by Palmer and thrown to first for a out. And the same could be said for some of those high choppers, or squibblers headed towards Belanger at SS, which were snapped up by Palmer.

Maybe. But over the course of his career, from 1965-1984, Palmer pitched about 14% of Oriole innings. Or about one out of seven. Or stating it a little differently, 86% of Oriole innings were pitched by someone besides Jim Palmer.

I think it's probably overstating things a little to say Brooks and Belanger's numbers were significantly skewed by someone who only played with them 1/7th of the time.

[Frobby]

Maybe. But over the course of his career, from 1965-1984, Palmer pitched about 14% of Oriole innings. Or about one out of seven. Or stating it a little differently, 86% of Oriole innings were pitched by someone besides Jim Palmer.

I think it's probably overstating things a little to say Brooks and Belanger's numbers were significantly skewed by someone who only played with them 1/7th of the time.

True. However, that's quite a statement, that Palmer pitched 14% of his team's innings. Nobody does that today.

[Moose Milligan]

Wish I had been alive to seen Brooks and Blair.

While I've seen a ton of Brooks highlights obviously, I'd really like to see some of Blair. Heard tons of great things about him, never seen anything of him in the field.

[clapdiddy]

Wish I had been alive to seen Brooks and Blair.

While I've seen a ton of Brooks highlights obviously, I'd really like to see some of Blair. Heard tons of great things about him, never seen anything of him in the field.

Blair is a really good guy. I met him once at a SABR function. He was there to just talk about baseball and the teams he played on...I want to say it was around 1996/1997.

Someone asked him who on the current Oriole team would play on their powerhouse teams of the early 70's. I think he said Cal and Alomar, and that was about it. He was very confident about that team, especially defensively. He mentioned that he played a very short center field to cut off more ball that fell in front of him.

My dad said he rarely saw Blair dive for a ball. He said he used to just turn with the ball in the air, and run to the spot where the ball was hit.

The thing I remember most about him in person, was a cool confidence. He seemed like a very serious guy, but not cocky. Very, very sure of himself, though.

[Webley Webster]

Blair is a really good guy. I met him once at a SABR function. He was there to just talk about baseball and the teams he played on...I want to say it was around 1996/1997.

Someone asked him who on the current Oriole team would play on their powerhouse teams of the early 70's. I think he said Cal and Alomar, and that was about it. He was very confident about that team, especially defensively. He mentioned that he played a very short center field to cut off more ball that fell in front of him.

My dad said he rarely saw Blair dive for a ball. He said he used to just turn with the ball in the air, and run to the spot where the ball was hit.

The thing I remember most about him in person, was a cool confidence. He seemed like a very serious guy, but not cocky. Very, very sure of himself, though.

Could just be homer bias, but I don't think I ever saw anyone play CF as shallow as Blair did. He was phenomenal going back on the ball. Truly incredible to watch.

I'm actually surprised that Brooks, as great as he was, is rated higher than Belanger. That's no knock on Brooks; it's just how good Belanger was. Had to be, with that bat. ;)

[Old#5fan]

Makes me wish I'd been alive to see them play. Makes me wish I'd been old enough to appreciate it the last time this team was even remotely successful, in fact.

The most amazing thing about Blair was he never dove for a ball ever! I know this seems amazing and hard to believe by anyone who never saw him play but it is true. He got such a amazing jump or read on the ball off the bat that he caught up to it or it was out of the park or off the wall. This also probably added years to his career saving him from a lot of potential injuries. He played the most shallow CF I ever saw and he just had the ability to anticipate where there ball was going as soon as it was hit and get there in time. He just seemed to glide out there and made it look ridiculously easy.

Belanger was similar to Blair in that he also had the uncanny ability to react to the ball off the bat of the hitter and be in perfect position to make the play. He was incredibly smooth and so reliable it was almost like he was a machine out there.

Finally we save the best for last in Brooksie. Now here was a guy who literally lived on his hands and knees playing third. Although extremely slow afoot he was quick as a cat in reacting to a hard smash and had incredible hands and reflexes. Oddly enough I am pretty sure he did everything else lefthanded except play baseball. Some of you younger folks may not know this but the highlight plays he made in the 70 Series against the Reds that earned him along with his big bat the MVP were simply normal plays for him that he made on a weekly basis during the season. I kid you not.

[El Gordo]

In reference to the stats of Brooks Robinson and Mark Belanger of the Orioles, they mention that their defensive figures could be tweaked because of Jim Palmer pitching prowess.

Something else to be considered is Palmer's fielding skills, which were far above average. So, some of those little dribblers down the 3rd base line, impossible for Brooks to field, might have been snatched up by Palmer and thrown to first for a out. And the same could be said for some of those high choppers, or squibblers headed towards Belanger at SS, which were snapped up by Palmer.There were none.:laughlol:

[Sports Guy]

I know it wouldn't be the same as the old Orioles but if we add Tex to Izturis, Jones, Markakis and Wieters, that would be quite a defense for us.

Not to mention, there is still a chance at getting Pie.

The Orioles have one incredible tradition of defense, that is for sure.

[El Gordo]

Wish I had been alive to seen Brooks and Blair.

While I've seen a ton of Brooks highlights obviously, I'd really like to see some of Blair. Heard tons of great things about him, never seen anything of him in the field.It was hard to see him in CF, because he was usually standing 10 feet behind 2B. :laughlol:

[tywright]

It sounds like they continued to tweak the article linked below:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/measuring-defense-for-players-back-to-1956-part-2/

Will be interesting to see what changed.

It's nice to see that Jeter is last

[Old#5fan]

It was hard to see him in CF, because he was usually standing 10 feet behind 2B. :laughlol:

True, and he didn't seem to even exert much effort in going after balls hit over his head. He just seemed to glide after them, never having to dive.

[higgybaby]

Does anybody know if you can get any of the old seasons on DVD? I would love to watch entire seasons of some of the 60's and 70's O's.

[LA2]

Nearly four decades later, I still haven't seen a defensive combination like the O's had, one reason being that the accompanying cast, except for left field (Blefary, and then Buford), was also smart and above average: Frank, Davey Johnson, Boog, and Etchebarren, plus some good fielders on the mound. Up the middle especially had a good run of defensive players, before and after the 1966 team: Ron Hansen and Looie Aparacio at SS before Belanger; Russ Snyder and Jackie Brandt before Blair; Jerry Adair and Rich Dauer before and after Johnson. One can see that the O's had a different approach to the game just from those examples. Not to speak of the Baby Birds on the mound.

[Hallas]

How's this for tradition? The article ranked the top 5 at each position. The SSs:

1- Belanger
2 - Smith
3 - Cal
4 - Aparicio
5 - Vizquel

Does anyone else find it impressive that they actually got it right with Belanger and Aparicio, despite a 68 and 82 OPS+ respectively? I mean, I'm sure the prevailing attitude on SS's during that time helped, but it's still amazing that even when the Earl's O's stuck to tradition, they found the right opportunity to do so. Other teams may have had anemic bats at SS but they did not have the glove contributions.

[LA2]

Does anyone else find it impressive that they actually got it right with Belanger and Aparicio, despite a 68 and 82 OPS+ respectively? I mean, I'm sure the prevailing attitude on SS's during that time helped, but it's still amazing that even when the Earl's O's stuck to tradition, they found the right opportunity to do so. Other teams may have had anemic bats at SS but they did not have the glove contributions.

Well, I remember that there were a good number of very fine fielding, no-hit SSs at the time, though not as good as Belanger. I wonder how the following are rated: Eddie Brinkman; Ray Oyler; Frank Quilici; Freddie Patek, et al. Bert Campaneris could hit better than any of them and I remember him robbing quite a few hits....

[JChav]

I had a peak at The Hardball Times 2009 annual last night. I'm getting it for a Christmas present so I don't have it to quote, but I snuck a peak in a bookstore yesterday. There's an article in there that ranks the best fielders at each position since 1953, based on data available since that year.

According to the article, Brooks Robinson was the best fielder at any position in that time period, at +293 (which I believe means 293 plays above average), far ahead of any other 3B and pretty far ahead of any other player, period.

Moreover, the article had Mark Belanger as the top SS since 1953, narrowly edging Ozzie Smith. For good measure, Paul Blair was the 3rd-best CF, behind Andruw Jones and Willie Mays.

The article noted how amazing it was that the Orioles had three such historically great fielders all on one team. I believe it said the three saved something like 46 runs a year on defense.

If anyone out there has picked up a copy of the book, please feel free to supplement or correct this summary.

Baltimore has really etched a reputation for defensive prowess, baseball or football for that matter. A very unsung aspect of Baltimore sports, and even just that era of Orioles baseball, I think. Great post.

[section18]

There have been some pretty good third basemen in baseball over the years but nobody has forgotten Brooks. Even better than his fielding is the man behind the glove. Anyone who has met Brooks will tell you what a nice guy he is. When choosing a quote for my signature I couldn't pass up the Brooks Robinson one I found which may be read below. Can you imagine what kind of salary Brooks would have earned if he was playing today? No problem with our little exchange a few days ago. I appreciate your comments.

[Frobby]

He mentioned that he played a very short center field to cut off more ball that fell in front of him.

My dad said he rarely saw Blair dive for a ball. He said he used to just turn with the ball in the air, and run to the spot where the ball was hit.

The thing I remember most about him in person, was a cool confidence. He seemed like a very serious guy, but not cocky. Very, very sure of himself, though.

Blair played the shallowest CF I have seen in my 40+ years watching baseball. He was a tremendously instinctive OF.

[Pheasants]

In '63 or '64 Belanger led the Aberdeen Pheasants in errors and won the silver (minors) glove for best fielder in the Northern League. Those years were a joy with Palmer and Eddy Watt on the mound and Etchy behind the plate. We thought we had great power hitters too, but they couldn't replace Frank and Boog.

[jiminnj]

A couple of people have mentioned him, but Aparicio was a tremendous defensive shortstop. Brooks was paired on the left side with two great defensive shortstops in his career. Aparicio was much more spectacular than Belanger, more diving stops. I remember him going into the hole, backhanding the ball, and then the leaping, turning in the air, while he fired the ball with his rocket of an arm to first. The contrast between the two was something, Belanger, so smooth, never breaking a sweat, but making play after play. Aparicio, fast, small, scrambling, and with a tremendous arm. The stats show that Belanger was probably slightly better, but both were a pleasure to watch, and both tremendous defensive shortstops.

[Frobby]

A couple of people have mentioned him, but Aparicio was a tremendous defensive shortstop. Brooks was paired on the left side with two great defensive shortstops in his career. Aparicio was much more spectacular than Belanger, more diving stops. I remember him going into the hole, backhanding the ball, and then the leaping, turning in the air, while he fired the ball with his rocket of an arm to first. The contrast between the two was something, Belanger, so smooth, never breaking a sweat, but making play after play. Aparicio, fast, small, scrambling, and with a tremendous arm. The stats show that Belanger was probably slightly better, but both were a pleasure to watch, and both tremendous defensive shortstops.

Good assessment. I should add that Ripken and Bordick were no slouches either. Hopefully Izturis can live up to that defensive legacy.