The best thing that can happen to the O's

[bigbird]

is nobody goes to the games. Zippy! Let the attendance slip another half million. I know PGA will not get another dime from me by attending a game.
What he is doing to this franchise is pitiful.

[Enjoy Terror]

Baltimore will not have a baseball team if we all decided not to go. Furthermore, because of his contract with the MLB, PGA would still get a decent return on his sale of the club even if it was worth nothing. I don't think that would be a good idea.

[TinCup]

I may be mistaken, but this sure reads like a rant. A brief, concise, succinct, to the point one, but a rant nonetheless. ;)

You go bigbird! :)

[thundercleetz]

is nobody goes to the games. Zippy! Let the attendance slip another half million. I know PGA will not get another dime from me by attending a game.
What he is doing to this franchise is pitiful.

Except from paying over $200 million for Tex, what could Angelos be doing to make this team better? I mean there isn't much to work with here. To be successful in the AL East it seems there is only one of two ways: tank completely for ten years, or have a payroll over $150 million. There is no in between.

[SilentJames]

Yeah and that will just make improving the team that much easier to have the city abandon it.

Yep, that will show Peter. Sure will show him. Yep.

[blueberryale77]

Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out Nasty Nestor had been posting under an assumed identity as an OH insider all these years? :rofl:

[cindyluvsbrady]

Yeah and that will just make improving the team that much easier to have the city abandon it.

Yep, that will show Peter. Sure will show him. Yep.

LOL!!!!:laughlol::D

[Miller192]

Yeah and that will just make improving the team that much easier to have the city abandon it.

Yep, that will show Peter. Sure will show him. Yep.

Hasn't the city already done that? If it wasn't for the Sox and Yanks, the attendance would be god awful.

[Jagwar]

Shouldn't this thread be in the "Fans Held Hostage" forum?

[cindyluvsbrady]

Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out Nasty Nestor had been posting under an assumed identity as an OH insider all these years? :rofl:

LOL:laughlol::clap3::wedge:!!

[wildcard]

BB, Its a little early in the off season to be giving up of MacPhail. He does his best work between now and opening day.

I for one will sit back and watch to see what Andy can pull off.

[Dr. FLK]

Except from paying over $200 million for Tex, what could Angelos be doing to make this team better? I mean there isn't much to work with here. To be successful in the AL East it seems there is only one of two ways: tank completely for ten years, or have a payroll over $150 million. There is no in between.

And, the only way to have a high payroll is to sign Tex?

[Dr. FLK]

BB, Its a little early in the off season to be giving up of MacPhail. He does his best work between now and opening day.

I for one will sit back and watch to see what Andy can pull off.

After observing the speed with which AM works, I certainly hope you have a comfy seat...you might be there for a while.

[JTrea81]

Yeah and that will just make improving the team that much easier to have the city abandon it.

Yep, that will show Peter. Sure will show him. Yep.

Angelos needs to be pressured into selling somehow. Seeing night after night of Camden green should be pretty bad and it should hit him in the wallet.

I wish MLB could force him to sell, but it just wouldn't happen. I wish they could take away MASN from him because he's not using the money to do anything but add to his money bin.

Fans are fed up, and the FO just doesn't seem to get that or seem to care, so they need to send a message somehow that they will not tolerate losing longer than is neccessary, and MacPhail's rebuilding timetable is completely unacceptable for the resources this club has.

If they are going to operate like a small market team, they don't deserve MASN and they also don't deserve large attendance #'s.

[Hank Scorpio]

BB, Its a little early in the off season to be giving up of MacPhail. He does his best work between now and opening day.

I for one will sit back and watch to see what Andy can pull off.

For once, I'd say he's not giving up on MacPhail and instead turning his ire towards the owner.

It's always good to switch it up, I guess. :p

[jcumansky28]

I identify with your anger completely, bigbird. We Baltimorons tried your approach with Bob Irsay 25 years ago and ended up with the Ravens. Maybe we'll get lucky again this time.

[Dr. FLK]

For once, I'd say he's not giving up on MacPhail and instead turning his ire towards the owner.

It's always good to switch it up, I guess. :p

Well, I'd say he has already given up on MacPhail...so, he's adding another log to his fire.

[Dr. FLK]

I identify with your anger completely, bigbird. We Baltimorons tried your approach with Bob Irsay 25 years ago and ended up with the Ravens. Maybe we'll get lucky again this time.

So you're hoping for the Indy Orioles, followed by a Canadian Baseball League team, followed by the relocation of the Indians? :D

[Goop]

I'm as fed up as most, but I can't say I'm gonna stop going to games. It's in my blood to cheer for this team and I want to continue to go to games.

[Miller192]

I have a question for you folks....

Given the fact that we don't plan on being competitive until at least 2010, do you think the Orioles could be doing a better job of explaining the situation that they are in?

Maybe try to appeal to the patience of fans a little more?

[jcumansky28]

So you're hoping for the Indy Orioles, followed by a Canadian Baseball League team, followed by the relocation of the Indians? :D

As we said back in '89, Why not!?!

[Goop]

I have a question for you folks....

Given the fact that we don't plan on being competitive until at least 2010, do you think the Orioles could be doing a better job of explaining the situation that they are in?

Maybe try to appeal to the patience of fans a little more?

It would be nice to actually hear a plan of direction from AM, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

[Hank Scorpio]

I have a question for you folks....

Given the fact that we don't plan on being competitive until at least 2010, do you think the Orioles could be doing a better job of explaining the situation that they are in?

Maybe try to appeal to the patience of fans a little more?

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1595727&postcount=10

I think it's already been explained and forgotten.

[TinCup]

I have a question for you folks....

Given the fact that we don't plan on being competitive until at least 2010, do you think the Orioles could be doing a better job of explaining the situation that they are in?

Maybe try to appeal to the patience of fans a little more?

Couldn't hurt if done earnestly and meaningfully and CREDIBLY.

[jcumansky28]

I have a question for you folks....

Given the fact that we don't plan on being competitive until at least 2010, do you think the Orioles could be doing a better job of explaining the situation that they are in?

Maybe try to appeal to the patience of fans a little more?

Th is an excellent, excellent question. McPhail says there is a plan. If it's to do nothing and wait for high draft picks to develop, he ought to just come out and say we won't be competing for five years.

[Dr. FLK]

I have a question for you folks....

Given the fact that we don't plan on being competitive until at least 2010, do you think the Orioles could be doing a better job of explaining the situation that they are in?

Maybe try to appeal to the patience of fans a little more?

I think that's the big problem. Couldn't they come up with a rebuilding plan (long term) that also had some short term benefits? If you sign real players via free agency, you can deal them for more prospects. The FAs help you field an actual baseball team in the short term, and dealing them helps you long term.

They don't need to tell me why they will stink this year. On the contrary, they need to stop crying about how bad they will be, and they need to do something about it. I don't expect them to win the WS this year, but they can at least put a ML-caliber team on the field. A rotation of Guthrie and 4 guys they found on the ground's crew is a joke...people don't want to watch that.

[Miller192]

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1595727&postcount=10

I think it's already been explained and forgotten.

So you would think the FO communicating their plan going forward is adequate?

[JTrea81]

I have a question for you folks....

Given the fact that we don't plan on being competitive until at least 2010, do you think the Orioles could be doing a better job of explaining the situation that they are in?

Maybe try to appeal to the patience of fans a little more?

The Orioles definitely need to be more open with their fans. MacPhail seems to understimate the intelligence of Orioles fans.

What the Orioles need to do is open their financial books and tell the fans exactly what financial shape they are in. Show us where that MASN money is going and that revenue sharing money is going. If it's actually going into areas to improve the club, then maybe we'd be a little more patient and understanding. But you can't just say we are going to operate like the Twins or Rays when we have a RSN without explaining why.

[MemorialStadKid]

I identify with your anger completely, bigbird. We Baltimorons tried your approach with Bob Irsay 25 years ago and ended up with the Ravens. Maybe we'll get lucky again this time.

I was under the impression that the Orioles had a 30-year lease with the City of Baltimore that was signed in the mid-90s.

The Orioles aren't going anywhere. But Angelos needs to.

MSK

[NewMarketSean]

Attendence will continue to drop right in line with the team's record. As it should. John Q. Public is not going to pay to take his family to the game unless it's an all you can eat deal or they celebrate the past again.

It's gotten to the point where free tickets are routinely passed up in Baltimore.

[Hank Scorpio]

So you would think the FO communicating their plan going forward is adequate?

It's never a bad thing to have open lines of communication with the fan base, but I think MacPhail has generally stuck to what he was indicating he had planned from the get go.

[Hank Scorpio]

Attendence will continue to drop right in line with the team's record. As it should. John Q. Public is not going to pay to take his family to the game unless it's an all you can eat deal or they celebrate the past again.

It's gotten to the point where free tickets are routinely passed up in Baltimore.

Absolutely the truth.

I probably turned down tickets 4 or 5 times last year.

[Gallo0817]

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1595727&postcount=10

I think it's already been explained and forgotten.
This thread sums it up perfectly..Its funny how the whole board for years clamored for a true rebuild of the whole organization but once the approiate actions take place they turn their back on the team.

[JTrea81]

I honestly hope MacPhail gets bombarded at the next Q+A the Orioles hold. There is just no excuse for the pace he's moving at with the resources the Orioles have, or maybe there is? Anyway he needs to spill it. Myself and other fans don't buy that this team is in the poorhouse, and that's the problem. I think they are using the economy as an excuse to do nothing.

I'd love to have the facts set straight on the matter...

[zff4]

So you would think the FO communicating their plan going forward is adequate?It would be if the FO communicated it in a sincere way and took every opportunity to talk to the fans in an intimate way that made you feel they were talking to you, rather than just answering some guy with a microphone, and with cliches at that. Their sense of PR is utterly inadequate.

Tuesday night t-shirt giveaways is not saying anything to the fans except, "We know you wouldn't be here otherwise, here's something to take home."

At this point, I want the FO to be standing there in Eutaw street greeting me when I come through the turnstile. And saying something we all want to hear.

[Ruzious]

So you would think the FO communicating their plan going forward is adequate?
I've gone over both of your excellent question a few times. While I'd prefer he do a better job of communicating the plan, he's actually done it in small ways and being more honest than 90% of GMs are - saying the organization was in really bad shape and that it would take a few years to compete.

But he does have to back up his words - not by acquiring over-priced over-the-hill players to quiet down the loud group of fans who just want to see that they're spending money - but he's got to acquire more pieces to the foundation that will lead them to be a decent team in 2010 and a team that can compete for a playoff spot by 2012 and beyond (royalties to Buzz Lightyear) year in and year out. And if he doesn't lay more of the foundation before the season starts, I would be all for the OP - and boycotting the O's.

[Miller192]

It's never a bad thing to have open lines of communication with the fan base, but I think MacPhail has generally stuck to what he was indicating he had planned from the get go.

Yeah I think he has. But I would think they would want to do more than "indicate" it though.

I don't have a dog in this fight but I would think that Andy and Co. would try to make the casual fans a little more knowledgable of their current circumstances and how they plan to make the team a winner again.

I don't see how that can by anything but positive for the Orioles, but again, its not my gig.

[TinCup]

As an aside to the debate of attending games....is there any coincidental/odd correlation between payroll and a cities population?? :scratchchinhmm:



Rank City State Population
1 New York City New York 8,274,527
2 Los Angeles California 3,834,340
3 Chicago Illinois 2,836,658
4 Houston Texas 2,208,180
5 Phoenix Arizona 1,552,259
6 Philadelphia Pennsylvania 1,449,634
8 San Diego California 1,266,731
9 Dallas Texas 1,240,499
11 Detroit Michigan 916,952
13 San Francisco California 799,183
17 Fort Worth Texas 681,818
20 Baltimore Maryland 637,455
21 Boston Massachusetts 608,352
23 Milwaukee Wisconsin 602,191
24 Seattle Washington 594,210
26 Denver Colorado 588,349
27 Washington District of Columbia 588,292
33 Atlanta Georgia 519,145
39 Kansas City Missouri 450,375
40 Cleveland Ohio 438,042 6,165.0
44 Oakland California 401,489
46 Minneapolis Minnesota 377,392
50 Arlington Texas 371,038
52 St. Louis Missouri 350,759
54 Tampa Florida 336,823
55 Anaheim California 333,249
56 Cincinnati Ohio 332,458
59 Pittsburgh Pennsylvania 311,218
75 St. Petersburg Florida 246,407

1 Yankees $284,800,121
2 Mets $158,499,376
3 Dodgers $151,575,459
4 Red Sox $144,708,039 (21)
5 Cubs $128,632,833
6 White Sox $127,246,527
7 Tigers $121,914,680
8 Phillies $120,063,380
9 Astros $119,602,598
10 Angels $111,776,333
11 Cardinals $106,151,949
12 Giants $106,137,546
13 Brewers $99,261,499
14 Mariners $98,134,382
15 Braves $93,512,499
16 Royals $83,915,499
17 Blue Jays $83,716,800
18 Diamondbacks $82,052,166
19 Rockies $75,242,626
20 Rangers $69,968,305
21 Indians $68,626,166
22 Orioles $67,053,580
23 Reds $60,873,000
24 Athletics $59,337,500
25 Nationals $56,875,000
26 Twins $51,146,766
27 Devil Rays $50,582,563
28 Padres $48,887,814
29 Pirates $45,870,008
30 Marlins $34,306,833

[oriole_way]

is nobody goes to the games. Zippy! Let the attendance slip another half million. I know PGA will not get another dime from me by attending a game.
What he is doing to this franchise is pitiful.

Seems like a lot of big talk to me.

If you were really serious, you would not only not go to Orioles games, you wouldn't purchase MASN, you wouldn't buy any Orioles gear, etc. Not only that, you wouldn't support MLB in any way, meaning not watching any Orioles games anywhere (ie free TV), not posting on OH, etc., since any support for the Orioles supports PGA, whether it's direct or indirect.

But whatever. If typing that rant made you feel better, good for you.

[O'saintthatbad]

The Orioles definitely need to be more open with their fans. MacPhail seems to understimate the intelligence of Orioles fans.

What the Orioles need to do is open their financial books and tell the fans exactly what financial shape they are in. Show us where that MASN money is going and that revenue sharing money is going. If it's actually going into areas to improve the club, then maybe we'd be a little more patient and understanding. But you can't just say we are going to operate like the Twins or Rays when we have a RSN without explaining why.

I understand your frustration, but are the Orioles a publicly owned entity? If PA makes a trillion dollars from MASN, isn't it his right to do what he pleases? He doesn't have to explain anything to us...however, I for one wishes he dumps it back into the O's.

I counter that thought though...isn't it our right to stop supporting the club? We can sit on the message board all day long and complain (which we have been doing for several years) and watch nothing happen or we can do something about it.

I don't know which way to lean on this fence...I love the birds and don't think I will stop watching them, but I am not sure what rationale there is behind seeing the books.

Just my humble opinion.

[Migrant Redbird]

As an aside to the debate of attending games....is there any coincidental/odd correlation between payroll and a cities population??

To examine the correlation, you should first make sure that you're looking at least at comparable metropolitan areas. Broadcast market areas are important as well, especially for teams in the Midwest where fans typically travel considerable distances to watch their favorite teams play.

[SrMeowMeow]

Boycotting the team is cutting off your nose to spite your face. There are plenty of profits to go around even with decreased attendance.

[byrdz]

I don't think you will have to worry about an organized effort to bring attendance down, this should work itself out naturally.

It's funny I keep telling my girlfriend, "I'm not watching this freaking team this coming season, not even getting MLB Extra Innings, bla blah blah". She's like, "Yeah you will." The truth hurts so bad.

[TinCup]

To examine the correlation, you should first make sure that you're looking at least at comparable metropolitan areas. Broadcast market areas are important as well, especially for teams in the Midwest where fans typically travel considerable distances to watch their favorite teams play.

Yes, I realize that MR, and that is why I would indeed have to lump several cities on the list above together for one team to account for their market. Thanks for the feedback though. :)

[hoosiers]

It would be if the FO communicated it in a sincere way and took every opportunity to talk to the fans in an intimate way that made you feel they were talking to you, rather than just answering some guy with a microphone, and with cliches at that. Their sense of PR is utterly inadequate.

The rebuild is being communicated and the words and interviews are discussed here daily.

Despite continued positive reception of our front office decisions by respected national writers and publications, it's the repeated rants of fans who disapprove (whether they are ignorant, have no stomach for a proper rebuild, have an agenda with our owner or FO or those who sincerely believe there is a better way to build the team, other) that carry the day on a message board such as this one. I would expect, however, that those who believe there truly is a better way to build the team would attempt to create a more meaningful discussion than the rant that started this thread.

It's a free country and nearly all properly articulated opinions are accepted here, but it is my opinion that the repeated rants of the nature in this thread border on the irresponsible in terms of persuading fans to an extreme opinion of the organization (in contrast to what much more respected baseball minds are writing) as well as the overall health of the message board itself (only my opinion).

[Enjoy Terror]

I don't understand how the Orioles hope to compete by 2010 without a 1B, 2B or 3B and nothing in the minor leagues. I guess maybe Snyder could be ready by then... but really. I can only hope that Reimold and Montanez come into their own and take over DH and LF duties and then JUST MAYBE we will have gotten two other legitimate infield prospects, but I just sincerely doubt that all of Montanez, Reimold and Snyder all pan out as major leaguers. That would really be playing against the odds.

[SrMeowMeow]

The rebuild is being communicated and the words and interviews are discussed here daily.

Despite continued positive reception of our front office decisions by respected national writers and publications, it's the repeated rants of fans who disapprove (whether they are ignorant, have no stomach for a proper rebuild, have an agenda with our owner or FO or those who sincerely believe there is a better way to build the team, other) that carry the day on a message board such as this one. I would expect, however, that those who believe there truly is a better way to build the team would attempt to create a more meaningful discussion than the rant that started this thread.

It's a free country and nearly all properly articulated opinions are accepted here, but it is my opinion that the repeated rants of the nature in this thread border on the irresponsible in terms of persuading fans to an extreme opinion of the organization (in contrast to what much more respected baseball minds are writing) as well as the overall health of the message board itself (only my opinion).

Repped, beautiful, prepare to get ripped apart.

[TonySoprano]

Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out Nasty Nestor had been posting under an assumed identity as an OH insider all these years? :rofl:The way Belkast's *source* was up until Teixeira signed, you'd swear it was Jim Hunter;)

BK, that's not a slap at you from reporting what you were told.

[Enjoy Terror]

The rebuild is being communicated and the words and interviews are discussed here daily.

Despite continued positive reception of our front office decisions by respected national writers and publications.... etc

Well said. Couldn't agree with you more. Good luck with the fallout for that one :laughlol:

[TiredofLosing20]

I am really surprised at the AM backlash that has clearly been triggered by the Tex signing. This team has a direction for the first time since 1998. I know it has been a long time but I do actually feel like we are making progress. He is expanding our international scouting, we are building our minor leagues. Compare where our farm system was 4 years ago compared to today. I too wanted Tex but I knew he wasn't coming here. Maybe that is why I am not jumping off the cliff. Yes Tex could have maybe accelerated our improvement but maybe not. Maybe the dollars we spent on Tex would keep us from doing some of these other things. I do trust AM and I don't feel our offer was a "token" offer. We are trading players that need to be traded and showing some patience for once. How many people would be complaining right now about the BROB trade if we had made it in the spring. I guess I just think that AM has made significant progress in the last 18-20 months. Clearly others don't.

[LookinUp]

And the Orioles Hangout Post-Teixeira Melt Down (OHPTMD) continues.

For better or for worse (mostly worse), PA has spent considerable portions of money on this team for more than a decade. That pattern has noticably changed over the last couple of years. There could be a few reasons why, including:

1. Andy McPhail doesn't believe this organization can be rebuilt properly by throwing good money at the problem, so he won't waste money on players that won't make us champions. Since he doesn't think we can really compete until 2010 or beyond, that's the earliest he'll start spending.

2. The economy's down and it hit PA big time.

3. PA could be preparing for a sell/transfer in ownership.

4. PA could have suddenly turned into a huge scrooge who won't spend a penny on this team just so he can line his pockets and screw the fans.

Now, maybe it's only me, but I just don't believe #4 is the case. Any combination of 1-3 is much more likely, IMO. Indeed, if #1 is the issue, AM will have a tough time communicating with fans because telling fans that you're tanking the season isn't exactly a good PR move either.

Step away from the ledge bigbird, JTrea and others. Please, step away.

[zff4]

The rebuild is being communicated
I'm not sure it is being communicated effectively. We do see AM from time to time and he remains on message. But it's not a communication campaign and certainly not an effective PR campaign. The rant that occasioned this thread is one measure of that.

It certainly isn't effective when measured with the job the Rays FO has done, and continue to do, for their rebuilding.

Rays Stu Sternberg IS out there every game, greeting the fans and answering questions personally. Is that over the top? Probably. Is it desperately needed in our environment where the fans seem to grow ever alienated from the team? Probably.

[TiredofLosing20]

The rebuild is being communicated and the words and interviews are discussed here daily.

Despite continued positive reception of our front office decisions by respected national writers and publications, it's the repeated rants of fans who disapprove (whether they are ignorant, have no stomach for a proper rebuild, have an agenda with our owner or FO or those who sincerely believe there is a better way to build the team, other) that carry the day on a message board such as this one. I would expect, however, that those who believe there truly is a better way to build the team would attempt to create a more meaningful discussion than the rant that started this thread.

It's a free country and nearly all properly articulated opinions are accepted here, but it is my opinion that the repeated rants of the nature in this thread border on the irresponsible in terms of persuading fans to an extreme opinion of the organization (in contrast to what much more respected baseball minds are writing) as well as the overall health of the message board itself (only my opinion).

I completely agree with this.

[Florida_Osfan]

The rebuild is being communicated and the words and interviews are discussed here daily.

Despite continued positive reception of our front office decisions by respected national writers and publications, it's the repeated rants of fans who disapprove (whether they are ignorant, have no stomach for a proper rebuild, have an agenda with our owner or FO or those who sincerely believe there is a better way to build the team, other) that carry the day on a message board such as this one. I would expect, however, that those who believe there truly is a better way to build the team would attempt to create a more meaningful discussion than the rant that started this thread.

It's a free country and nearly all properly articulated opinions are accepted here, but it is my opinion that the repeated rants of the nature in this thread border on the irresponsible in terms of persuading fans to an extreme opinion of the organization (in contrast to what much more respected baseball minds are writing) as well as the overall health of the message board itself (only my opinion).

Best post in this thread. Sadly, this will be spun or ignored by those who subscribe to the fast-food generation of thinking. "Now, now, now!!" I will not wait. Many on here have completely disregarded or ignored AMac's repeated honesty about the state of the O's rebuilding process.

[Ruzious]

I don't understand how the Orioles hope to compete by 2010 without a 1B, 2B or 3B and nothing in the minor leagues. I guess maybe Snyder could be ready by then... but really. I can only hope that Reimold and Montanez come into their own and take over DH and LF duties and then JUST MAYBE we will have gotten two other legitimate infield prospects, but I just sincerely doubt that all of Montanez, Reimold and Snyder all pan out as major leaguers. That would really be playing against the odds.
They're not going to compete by 2010 - and I don't think anyone in the organization said they would. It's mainly because their big 3 pitchers will just be getting their feet wet in 2010. Snyder could be the answer at 1st, you can always find a decent 2nd baseman (which could be the kid they got in the Ramon trade), and they should be able to acquire a 3rd baseman by then - not saying those aren't issues, but the young pitching is the key, imo.

[TonySoprano]

is nobody goes to the games. Zippy! Let the attendance slip another half million. I know PGA will not get another dime from me by attending a game.
What he is doing to this franchise is pitiful.Heaven forbid we sign a guy like Ben Sheets or someone else with an above average career ERA. We're so certain of our plan that the big 3 of Arrieta, Matusz, and Tillman will all make a major statement that we don't need any other quality pitching. :rolleyes:

[TiredofLosing20]

Heaven forbid we sign a guy like Ben Sheets or someone else with an above average career ERA. We're so certain of our plan that the big 3 of Arrieta, Matusz, and Tillman will all make a major statement that we don't need any other quality pitching. :rolleyes:

I think Sheets would be a good signing too at the right price and my guess is so would AM. But evidenced by the fact that he along with many other FAs are unsigned the market has not yet been set. Maybe his demands are too high maybe there is serious concern about his durability. I just don't think we know enough yet. I think any criticism of this offseason is premature. There are just too many pieces still out there.

[Dipper9]

This thread sums it up perfectly..Its funny how the whole board for years clamored for a true rebuild of the whole organization but once the approiate actions take place they turn their back on the team.

EXCELLENT first post. This is what everyone wanted, a rebuild, but now that we are in year two of it, everybody is complaining because we aren't doing anything. Sometimes I just have to shake my head. Did I want Tex? Hell YES! Do I blame the Orioles for not getting him? Not at all. Tex did not want to come here, and who can really blame him? As for MacPhail, he has told us from day one that we would not be competing for a few years. Do you all want him to say it once a week just to make you feel better? His plan is obvious. He is shedding the team of the overpriced veterans who were signed before his time. He is rebuilding the farm. He is making trades to get young prospects rather than wasting money on quick fixes. And in case nobody is paying attention, look at the list of free agents still out there. There are a lot of good players still available, but NOBODY is signing them because they are not worth the millions of dollars it would take, when compared to marginally less talented young guys in the system. We are not the only team not spending money. On the contrary, there are only a select few who ARE spending, and for all we know, the Yanks could STILL not win it all this year. It has been shown in baseball time and again that TEAMS win championships, not individual players. I am just as frustrated with the losing as all of you are, but the fact is this is what we wanted, and it will take time.

As for bb's OP, I gotta ask it man...what in the blue hell has Angelos done for you to suddenly feel the need to start a Angelos bashing thread? For years we asked him to stop meddling and let the baseball people do their job. By ALL indications that is exactly what he is doing, and yet NOW we're pissed because of (probably wrong) perception that he won't spend money? WOW!

[Mackus]

Heaven forbid we sign a guy like Ben Sheets or someone else with an above average career ERA. We're so certain of our plan that the big 3 of Arrieta, Matusz, and Tillman will all make a major statement that we don't need any other quality pitching. :rolleyes:I think Sheets would be a good investment, but not any other "above average career ERA" starting pitcher out there.

Sheets is a dominant pitcher when healthy. I don't care what the state of my franchise is, if I'm comfortable with the risk of the player, I'm always interested in top notch talent if its coming for a seemingly discounted price.

But the rest of the guys, even if they are at a bit of a discount, they just aren't likely to be very good at all in 2011. I'd rather spend $2-3M a year on stop gaps like Redding than spending 3/$24-30M on someone like Kawakami or Garland.

[BedardisAce]

The best thing that can happen to the O's

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

is nobody goes to the games. Zippy! Let the attendance slip another half million. I know PGA will not get another dime from me by attending a game.
What he is doing to this franchise is pitiful.

:agree:

Its like spending money to go to a movie you know will be bad - its just not worth it. I will give the Orioles until spring training to improve the product, but if it hasn't been done, I agree with bigbird, I'm not buying. No games for me this year, and even moreso, no merchandise. It is not worth the money, plain and simple, nor is it worth the time. If they wanna fix this franchise, I will be back. I will still watch them on TV occasionally and follow the team through the message board, but you could say I am now watching from a distance. Let them get corrected and I will wait. Meanwhile, I'll find better things to do with my time and better places to spend my hard earned dollars.

[Hank Scorpio]

Heaven forbid we sign a guy like Ben Sheets or someone else with an above average career ERA. We're so certain of our plan that the big 3 of Arrieta, Matusz, and Tillman will all make a major statement that we don't need any other quality pitching. :rolleyes:

Throwing money at risky thirtysomething starting pitchers is not any kind of solution.

IMO, it's almost never a solution. Pay for bats, draft & trade for pitching.

[Mackus]

I'm not gonna criticize someone for not spending their money on the Orioles, but saying that attendance plummeting is "the best thing that can happen to the O's" is like saying that getting the flu is the best thing that can happen to someone with cancer.

[TiredofLosing20]

I will probably attend more games this year. While I do not expect the O's to be a good team, I will support fully the direction we are headed. Tampa was not built overnight and the O's are basically Tampa 2 or 3 years ago. We have direction (that I believe has been communicated clearly) and I support it and am willing to give it time.

[TiredofLosing20]

Throwing money at risky thirtysomething starting pitchers is not any kind of solution.

Sounds like the pre AM Orioles doesn't it that everyone on here criticized.



IMO, it's almost never a solution. Pay for bats, draft & trade for pitching.

Hmm, that almost sounds familar and could potential be considered a "plan". Can't imagine where I heard that before!!!

[GotNitro]

How about we all get together and find some product that can cause injury and take turns playing with it. We will then file a large class action lawsuit with PA as our representation. When we reach a nine digit settlement we donate all the money to PA in a special trust that can only be spent on the O's? :clap3:

[Fan4Life]

Best post in this thread. Sadly, this will be spun or ignored by those who subscribe to the fast-food generation of thinking. "Now, now, now!!" I will not wait. Many on here have completely disregarded or ignored AMac's repeated honesty about the state of the O's rebuilding process.

Will the "Make Me Happy Meal" be ready by 2012? I've been waiting since 1998.

[ChaosLex]

Only way I'm going to a game is if the girl I'm dating drags me to one.

[TonySoprano]

I think Sheets would be a good investment, but not any other "above average career ERA" starting pitcher out there.I threw that out there more in contrast to the guys we're supposedly looking at getting such as Redding.


Throwing money at risky thirtysomething starting pitchers is not any kind of solution.

IMO, it's almost never a solution. Pay for bats, draft & trade for pitching.It beats paying money like Hendrickson to someone just to fill Cabrera's leftover laundry. Look at the money we've shed this year and look what's coming off the payroll after the year. We have the flexibility to shop in the Ben Sheets section of the store instead of the bargain bin where the Trachsels are.

[Migrant Redbird]

Yes, I realize that MR, and that is why I would indeed have to lump several cities on the list above together for one team to account for their market. Thanks for the feedback though. :)

You can find a listing of all the TV markets in North America at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_me dia_market), but it doesn't give the size of the market, just their ranking. Unfortunately, the Canadian rankings are separate, so it's difficult to see where the Blue Jays stand.

Neilson will tell you how many people there are in each of the 210 US TV DMAs (Designated Market Areas) but, as far as I can tell, they want you to pay for that information.

[orioles119]

Wow... not a peep from bigbird since his emotionally driven drivel in the intial post. Even one of the esteemed "insiders" can't escape from posting in the wrong forum.

[Mackus]

It beats paying money like Hendrickson to someone just to fill Cabrera's leftover laundry. Look at the money we've shed this year and look what's coming off the payroll after the year. We have the flexibility to shop in the Ben Sheets section of the store instead of the bargain bin where the Trachsels are.Lets ignore Sheets for a while, because we both agree he would be a good target.

First of all, Hendrickson wasn't signed as a starter. He's a relief pitcher. However, he does have the flexibility to step in and start if things get desperate. Although he probably won't be someone we're very pleased to see have to do that, the flexibility never hurts.

Secondly, I'd much, much rather have signed Hendrickson solely as a starter than have given a 3-year deal for $6-10M a year to Kawakami or Garland. I'd take someone like Redding or Byrd on a 1-year deal for like $3-4M over Hendrickson, though.

Thirdly, I think cutting Cabrera was a pretty stupid move. I don't think he's going to be great so I won't call it a huge mistake, but its pretty painfully obvious that we don't currently have 5 starters that are better than him. It was a very shortsighted move, IMO.

[TonySoprano]

I know MacPhail said Hendrickson would be used in both the bullpen and rotation. Then there's this from Hendrickson
"The impression I got from them is that I am going to go down there and start, and that's what I'll plan to do and that's the direction I ultimately see it going." Source - The Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles01jan01,0,7616224.story)

Unless we sign two other such veterans, he's going in the opening rotation, that's the Orioles way. Hendrickson's got that "veteran presence." :002_scool:

"Oh, but things are different under MacPhail." Really?

Steve Trachsel's 2008 spring training line
13 IP, 19H, 10 ER, 6.92 ERA.

[JTrea81]

I know MacPhail said Hendrickson would be used in both the bullpen and rotation. Then there's this from Hendrickson Source - The Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles01jan01,0,7616224.story)

Unless we sign two other such veterans, he's going in the opening rotation, that's the Orioles way. Hendrickson's got that "veteran presence." :002_scool:

"Oh, but things are different under MacPhail." Really?

Steve Trachsel's 2008 spring training line
13 IP, 19H, 10 ER, 6.92 ERA.

I have no doubt Hendrickson will start and not be forced out of the rotation until June. That's the way the Orioles roll...

[bluedog]

is nobody goes to the games. Zippy! Let the attendance slip another half million. I know PGA will not get another dime from me by attending a game.
What he is doing to this franchise is pitiful.

The best thing that could happen to the O's would be that their young players perform to expectations and we have a great season in 2009 both with the big club and in the minors.

New ownership would be great, but wishing for the fans to abandon the O's players because of something that's out of their control (ownership) makes no sense to me.

[MikeAD]

Only way I'm going to a game is if the girl I'm dating drags me to one.

You date a girl who would "drag" you to the Yard?

Thats awesome, why are you complaining? :D

I would like to say I will still go as much as I used to but its just hard to talk friends into going to OPACY when we are as close to Philly. I do like to go with my friends who are Yankees fans to watch the Bronx invade, always love a free ticket!!

Seriously though, is there any way at all that attendance gets so bad that he sells? Or more importantly, could we lose the team? Is that even possible?

[BaltimoreTerp]

This is teetering on the edge of "The best thing that could happen is for the Orioles to leave" territory, and that isn't a discussion we want to have again.

All I will say is that for nobody to go to the games is the best way to SEND a message, but that's like someone telling you the best way to contact them is by email instead of their phone. There is still no guarantee they will get the message, understand what they get, or even give a damn.