O's Fans Held Hostage - Day 26

[JTrea81]

You want to pay Moyer 8 million a year to be in the pen? Hendrickson can do that for 1/8th cost and half the contract length.

People are making way too much out of that deal. He is filler, nothing more nothing less.

Right now he's our #2 starter. And he's going to be another Trachsel in the rotation. I don't know how you aren't seeing this...

I'd rather pay more money for a better starter that will actually eat innings so my bullpen isn't blown to bits come July...

[tywright]

Um....How do you figure?

He has a career ERA of 3.39 out of the pen. And last year his reliever ERA was 3.03.

[JTrea81]

He has a career ERA of 3.39 out of the pen. And last year his reliever ERA was 3.03.

That's fine but he's going to be in our rotation, where he's not good nor an innings eater...

[Tx Oriole]

You telling me that 20 million a year is a low ball offer? I wonder if you will ever get over this. T81 if you were the GM how many years and money would yiou have given Tex?

[glenn__davis]

I'll remember that when you see Hendrickson getting lit up in the rotation start after start... :laughlol:

Moyer will earn every penny of that 8 million per season.

I mean no disrespect, but honestly, who cares? Sure, Jamie Moyer would help our staff this year. But he's not going to be here on our next playoff team. I'd hate to see us waste 8 million on Jamie Moyer when that money could be spent improving our international facilities or helping us sign draft picks.

[tywright]

Moyer was pretty darn good last season, better than any Oriole pitcher and he was 45 and showing no signs of slowing down. He's pitched 195 innings at least every season since 2001. CBP is a launching pad much like OPACY and yet he did pretty well there.

Just what about Moyer turns you off other than the fact he'll be 46?

He pitched in the NATIONAL League and last year was huge improvement from past years.

What turns me off is that we'd have to pay him potentially $20MM over 2 years.

[Hank Scorpio]

You telling me that 20 million a year is a low ball offer? I wonder if you will ever get over this. T81 if you were the GM how many years and money would yiou have given Tex?

I think it's pretty well documented that he would have given him 10 years, $230MM.

I'll remember that for a long, long time.

[tywright]

That's fine but he's going to be in our rotation, where he's not good nor an innings eater...

Eventually he won't be in the rotation and will be used as a swingman/long reliever.

[JTrea81]

You telling me that 20 million a year is a low ball offer? I wonder if you will ever get over this. T81 if you were the GM how many years and money would yiou have given Tex?

8/184 is the offer I would have given him out of the gate with option years for a value of 10/230.

Make him walk away from that or some team beat it...

[tywright]

8/184 is the offer I would have given him out of the gate with option years for a value of 10/230.

Make him walk away from that or some team beat it...

Your initial offer would have been more than the winning offer?? We would have basically just earned Tex more money from the MFY. He wasn't going to come here! Get that through your head.

And show me the 10/ $230MM proof.

[JTrea81]

I mean no disrespect, but honestly, who cares? Sure, Jamie Moyer would help our staff this year. But he's not going to be here on our next playoff team. I'd hate to see us waste 8 million on Jamie Moyer when that money could be spent improving our international facilities or helping us sign draft picks.

He makes the product on the field better and you are fooling yourself if you think the Orioles are taking all the $ they would have put into FAs into scouting and development. I'd rather spend the money on improving the team and not lining Angelos' pockets, because those seem to be the only two options that we have...

[JTrea81]

Eventually he won't be in the rotation and will be used as a swingman/long reliever.

Because he'll be so terrible the Orioles will be forced to remove him from the rotation. If we sign him as a bullpen arm fine, but they are going to put him in the rotation where he's going to hurt the team and stress out the bullpen.

Wouldn't it be better to put a better pitcher in that rotation spot so they don't have to be removed and they help your bullpen?

[Cokeman]

Teixeira doesn't downplay his excitement about the idea of playing for the Orioles. "That would really be a dream come true," he said. Of course, Teixeira is nothing if not polite. He finished that thought by saying, "But at the same time, I have two years here with Texas and I'm going to concentrate on winning with Texas."

If the Orioles had improved the team over those 2 years, maybe Teixeira's dream would have stayed alive...and maybe they would have been more aggressive about signing him.

[Dannyboy]

He was interested, but the Orioles had to make an effort IMO, and I think he ruled us out the minute we made our 7/140 offer because it was lower than the offer he recieved from the Angels and the Nationals, two teams he didn't want to go to. He wanted the most money and we weren't offering it. That's why he didn't give us a chance to raise our offer. We lost when we lowballed him. So no I'll admit he didn't want to desperately be an Oriole, but we'll never know if we made an offer of 8/184 right out of the gate that anybody would have topped it, or that he would have turned it down to take a lower offer with the Yankees or Red Sox.

Miguel Tejada didn't have a huge attraction to the Orioles and we blew him away so he signed. We should have done the same thing with Tex.

And that's my final say on the matter.....Guess not :D

[JTrea81]

Your initial offer would have been more than the winning offer?? We would have basically just earned Tex more money from the MFY. He wasn't going to come here! Get that through your head.


Like I said, believe what you want to believe to make you feel better. We won't know if he would have come here or not because the Orioles never offered a competitive offer right from the start and that's the truth...

I've already admitted Tex may have not desperately wanted to be an Oriole as he was going to follow Boras, but it could have been possible he was interested in playing here and willing to see what the Orioles would offer, and they had the lowest offer of all the teams interested including the Yankees, so he eliminated them right off the bat. The fact is we'll never know if Tex would have turned down more money from the Orioles because we never offered him the chance to.

[Dannyboy]

Because he'll be so terrible the Orioles will be forced to remove him from the rotation. If we sign him as a bullpen arm fine, but they are going to put him in the rotation where he's going to hurt the team and stress out the bullpen.

Wouldn't it be better to put a better pitcher in that rotation spot so they don't have to be removed and they help your bullpen?

That must be some crystal ball you have. :rolleyes:

[JTrea81]

....Guess not :D

I'm holding my final position. People want to keep bringing it up, so I'm responding...

[JTrea81]

That must be some crystal ball you have. :rolleyes:

It's not that hard, just look at last season with Trachsel...

[tywright]

Because he'll be so terrible the Orioles will be forced to remove him from the rotation. If we sign him as a bullpen arm fine, but they are going to put him in the rotation where he's going to hurt the team and stress out the bullpen.

Wouldn't it be better to put a better pitcher in that rotation spot so they don't have to be removed and they help your bullpen?

Clearly we're not going to pay more than $6MM/yr for pitchers to keep rotation spots warm for our young pitchers. So $1.5MM for a #5/swingman/long reliever was an economically good decision. Then when your gamble does pay out, you can trade him at the deadline. You couldn't do this with Moyer.

[tywright]

Like I said, believe what you want to believe to make you feel better. We won't know if he would have come here or not because the Orioles never offered a competitive offer right from the start and that's the truth...

I've already admitted Tex may have not desperately wanted to be an Oriole as he was going to follow Boras, but it could have been possible he was interested in playing here and willing to see what the Orioles would offer, and they had the lowest offer of all the teams interested including the Yankees, so he eliminated them right off the bat. The fact is we'll never know if Tex would have turned down more money from the Orioles because we never offered him the chance to.

Do you really honestly think that Tex was interested in coming here AFTER allowing his agent to tell MacPhail that he's going in a different direction without even asking if we would up our offer?? You really need to think about that.

[StateFarmFSR]

McPhail will quickly become McFail as far as I am concerned. I am sure the owners have got to be questioning what is going on in as any business owner would be in the event that they start to see overall revenue, profits, sales etc decline precipitously over the course of a new CEO's tenure. In the real-world, he would simply have been fired already. While I understand that rebuilding takes time, I simply would pose this: are we better off today than we were when McPhail arrived...I personally do not believe so if I guage progress on the product that is put forth. It's a shame that many former fans are now apathetic to the organazation as a whole. When was the last time you heard anyone outside of baseball circles even bring up the Orioles?

[JTrea81]

Clearly we're not going to pay more than $6MM/yr for pitchers to keep rotation spots warm for our young pitchers. So $1.5MM for a #5/swingman/long reliever was an economically good decision. Then when your gamble does pay out, you can trade him at the deadline. You couldn't do this with Moyer.

If you want bargain bin prices, you are going to get bargin bin performance. The bullpen arms are going to be blown out again and this team will once again be a laughing stock with bullpen collapses in July. Why not just let the young arms pitch in Baltimore if that's the plan? At least you give them some experience and figure out once and for all what you've got, and I'm not talking about the Big Three, I'm talking about Patton, Liz, Olson and Penn and Bergesen and Hernandez.

[SrMeowMeow]

If you want bargain bin prices, you are going to get bargin bin performance. The bullpen arms are going to be blown out again and this team will once again be a laughing stock with bullpen collapses in July. Why not just let the young arms pitch in Baltimore if that's the plan? At least you give them some experience and figure out once and for all what you've got, and I'm not talking about the Big Three, I'm talking about Patton, Liz, Olson and Penn and Bergesen and Hernandez.

Because
they don't think
it will help their development
to throw them in the fire
**Edited by mods**

[JTrea81]

Do you really honestly think that Tex was interested in coming here AFTER allowing his agent to tell MacPhail that he's going in a different direction without even asking if we would up our offer?? You really need to think about that.

Did you ever think he made up his mind once we offered him the lowest offer of any team?

We can go back and forth over this one. The fact is we will truly never know...

[Enjoy Terror]

That's ok... I just won't post anything else I hear. No biggie!

If I was in charge, things would already be this way.

[JTrea81]

Because
they don't think
it will help their development
to throw them in the fire
**Edited by mods**

If they aren't part of the solution than they need to be traded or released. They are the expendable arms right now and we need to find out what we have. They are all taking up spots on the roster.

We aren't talking about ace pitchers here. All these guys are 3-4-5 at best.

[jcroemer]

McPhail will quickly become McFail as far as I am concerned. I am sure the owners have got to be questioning what is going on in as any business owner would be in the event that they start to see overall revenue, profits, sales etc decline precipitously over the course of a new CEO's tenure. In the real-world, he would simply have been fired already. While I understand that rebuilding takes time, I simply would pose this: are we better off today than we were when McPhail arrived...I personally do not believe so if I guage progress on the product that is put forth. It's a shame that many former fans are now apathetic to the organazation as a whole. When was the last time you heard anyone outside of baseball circles even bring up the Orioles?

When ownership hired MacPhail they did so with full knowledge the team would undergo a rebuilding process. They aren't stupid, rebuilding processes don't equal profits until they are complete. They bought in and agreed to give MacPhail a few years.

The Angelos ownership group has presided over a great deal of instability. Firing MacPhail now accomplishes nothing and sets us back another 2 years.

Relax!

[Dwight Schrute]

If you want bargain bin prices, you are going to get bargin bin performance. The bullpen arms are going to be blown out again and this team will once again be a laughing stock with bullpen collapses in July. Why not just let the young arms pitch in Baltimore if that's the plan? At least you give them some experience and figure out once and for all what you've got, and I'm not talking about the Big Three, I'm talking about Patton, Liz, Olson and Penn and Bergesen and Hernandez.

I actually agree with this. As overboard as some of his arguments are, his general point that signing Mark Hendrickson vs Mark Teixeira and pocketing the difference is exactly what is going on here. Anyone who doesn't see this is simply an apologist who will be saying the same thing in 2018 when we are on our 21st losing season in a row. Hendrickson is cannon fodder, no more, no less. They'll trot him out at fanfest and have Mark Hendrickson t-shirt night and the first 10,000 people in attendance will receive a free one. The real question will be what to do with the 9,400 of them left over...

[Greg Pappas]

Just an open message to our posters...

Insults levied against other posters will not be tolerated. Regardless of what you think about another poster's points of view or mental stability, it does not give you license to berate them or call their sanity into question.

Thank you.

[Enjoy Terror]

Because
they don't think
it will help their development
to throw them in the fire
**Edited by mods**

Preposterous. Liz and Olson have been in AAA for long enough and have shown enough that they need to be in the majors or risk becoming organizational filler when the O's move on to better projects.

[tywright]

If you want bargain bin prices, you are going to get bargin bin performance. The bullpen arms are going to be blown out again and this team will once again be a laughing stock with bullpen collapses in July. Why not just let the young arms pitch in Baltimore if that's the plan? At least you give them some experience and figure out once and for all what you've got, and I'm not talking about the Big Three, I'm talking about Patton, Liz, Olson and Penn and Bergesen and Hernandez.

I do expect to see a lot of Olson, Patton, Liz, and maybe Penn this year. And I do expect Olson to improve and another SP to surprise. 2009 looks a lot like 1988's pitching staff...and I don't have a problem with that.

[SrMeowMeow]

If they aren't part of the solution than they need to be traded or released. They are the expendable arms right now and we need to find out what we have. They are all taking up spots on the roster.

We aren't talking about ace pitchers here. All these guys are 3-4-5 at best.

Why are Bergesen, Hernandez and Patton expendable? For that matter, why are Olson, Liz and Penn expendable? How could it POSSIBLY be worth more to risk stunting their development simply to avoid signing some FA stopgaps? One of those pitchers putting it together is infinitely more valuable than avoiding signing Hendrickson because it ruffles feathers. Six months ago you would have agreed.

[SrMeowMeow]

Preposterous. Liz and Olson have been in AAA for long enough and have shown enough that they need to be in the majors or risk becoming organizational filler when the O's move on to better projects.

Liz and Olson, sure. Why are we giving up on Patton and Bergesen and Hernandez just to avoid signing Hendricksons?

I am sorry for "yelling", too.

[Dwight Schrute]

Why are Bergesen, Hernandez and Patton expendable? For that matter, why are Olson, Liz and Penn expendable? How could it POSSIBLY be worth more to risk stunting their development simply to avoid signing some FA stopgaps? One of those pitchers putting it together is infinitely more valuable than avoiding signing Hendrickson because it ruffles feathers. Six months ago you would have agreed.

Just how long do we give these guys to develop? Until Markakis and Weiters are ready to hit free agency? Why not run them out there in a lost season? You can't have it both ways, which is how we got into this mess in the first place. Its been 11 years of stopgaps until Player X is ready for the show, and frankly its just a little old at this point. Run the kids out there or spend away, but the Paytons and Millars and Hendricksons of the world have got to stop.

[Enjoy Terror]

I think the Orioles are being exceptionally obtuse by not looking at players like Salazar and Montanez for the team. I can maybe understand Reimold in AAA next year, but instead of shelling out the money for a 1B or a DH, go cheap with internal options who appear to have "figured it out".

Am I missing something?

[SrMeowMeow]

Just how long do we give these guys to develop? Until Markakis and Weiters are ready to hit free agency? Why not run them out there in a lost season? You can't have it both ways, which is how we got into this mess in the first place. Its been 11 years of stopgaps until Player X is ready for the show, and frankly its just a little old at this point. Run the kids out there or spend away, but the Paytons and Millars and Hendricksons of the world have got to stop.

Run the kids out there when it's for their own good, I don't see how people can be suggesting that their opinion on prospect development is more informed than people who do it for a career and actually have experience in the field. If MacPhail keeps Patton, say, in AAA when he's on fire so as not to hurt Hendrickson's feelings, that's bad. But throwing Patton to the wolves because we're gunshy of signing players that are over 30 because we're obsessed about the youth movement is silly - the 1.5M doesn't matter at all, and all it does is provide our pitchers with a safety net. If Hendrickson actually takes playing time from a young player who deserves it I'll yell as loudly as the next guy. But I like to see facts before I condemn.

[glenn__davis]

I actually agree with this. As overboard as some of his arguments are, his general point that signing Mark Hendrickson vs Mark Teixeira and pocketing the difference is exactly what is going on here. Anyone who doesn't see this is simply an apologist who will be saying the same thing in 2018 when we are on our 21st losing season in a row. Hendrickson is cannon fodder, no more, no less. They'll trot him out at fanfest and have Mark Hendrickson t-shirt night and the first 10,000 people in attendance will receive a free one. The real question will be what to do with the 9,400 of them left over...

I'm not sure if you're being facetious or not, but I seriously doubt the Orioles try to pass of Mark Hendrickson as some sort of major acquisition. They know he's nothing, we know he's nothing, and they know we know he's nothing. He's a warm body.

[LookinUp]

There's a silent majority on this site that is choosing not to throw stones. We understand that we simply don't know what we don't know; like what Teixeira really wanted; how the economy's affecting PA and MLB in general; player valuations made by our Front Office and scouts; when/if PA wants to sell the team; whether PA's pocketing the $$ he's not spending, reinvesting, or just not thinking it's wise to spend big money on a bad team this year; etc.

We like to root, but we're not comfortable with hating on people that we don't know, and we can't pretend to really understand their considerations with nothing more than rumors upon which to base our thoughts. Moreover, we generally think people are good and trying, so they get the benefit of the doubt in our eyes while they're in the middle of this rebuild.

We'll wait for the final product - in 2010 and 2011 - and judge this rebuild the most accurate way we can, in hindsight.

[glenn__davis]

He makes the product on the field better and you are fooling yourself if you think the Orioles are taking all the $ they would have put into FAs into scouting and development. I'd rather spend the money on improving the team and not lining Angelos' pockets, because those seem to be the only two options that we have...

I'm not fooling myself at all. I have no idea what the Orioles financial situation is. I hope they're spending a decent amount on improving their international scouting, but we have no idea if that's the case. You could very well be right and PGA is just laughing all the way to the bank. What I do know is that, even if he repeated his performance from last year, 16 million (at a minimum) for Jamie Moyer is a terrible waste of resources.

[Dwight Schrute]

I'm not sure if you're being facetious or not, but I seriously doubt the Orioles try to pass of Mark Hendrickson as some sort of major acquisition. They know he's nothing, we know he's nothing, and they know we know he's nothing. He's a warm body.

Yes, the last part is somewhat facetious, although you owe me a beer if he has a "Heroes of Birdland" video montage next year. But he is correct about Tex, as misguided as his logic is sometimes. We never intended to sign the guy, so why put on the show? And the "20mm is not a lowball offer" crowd is ridiculous. Someone on here said it best when they said something to the effect of "To you offering Donald Trump 20k to wash your car is not a lowball offer". And that is true. But it doesn't matter that the person offering the money doesn't think its lowball. It matters to the person receiving the offer and in context with the other offers the person received.

[Enjoy Terror]

Liz and Olson, sure. Why are we giving up on Patton and Bergesen and Hernandez just to avoid signing Hendricksons?

I am sorry for "yelling", too.

First, I don't think we are avoiding them. I think MacPhail wants to make Norfolk the natural place to stockpile talent, like all other teams do. Keeping everyone that's any good in Bowie is silly... why have a AAA team at all? This seems like a good way to start bumping out the John Leicesters of the world and replacing them with talent when the Orioles start fail around August.

Second, if left unsigned, Hendrickson will not be available on Opening day.

If you sign and start Hendrickson as the fifth starter, you can reasonably assume he'll throw for a 5.00ERA to finish the season. He will probably get himself 8-10 wins and be Cabrera-esque failure everyone hates. Either that or he does better than expected.

If you DON'T sign Hendrickson, and instead start Bergesen, you run the risk of Brad going out, pitching himself to a 108ERA in 2/3rds of an inning and say to yourself... well now I really don't have a 5th starter because Bergesen isn't ready for this and Hendrickson is off the board along with all the other free agent starters.

It's a risk management move. Andy MacPhail doesn't want to throw wildcards onto the field every five days. He'd rather be slightly below average and at least have control of that situation. If Hendrickson is absolutely terrible, he can at least demote or release him and then try Bergesen in his stead, and then you are at square one again.

That's just my take on it, seems logical to me.

[SrMeowMeow]

First, I don't think we are avoiding them. I think MacPhail wants to make Norfolk the natural place to stockpile talent, like all other teams do. Keeping everyone that's any good in Bowie is silly... why have a AAA team at all? This seems like a good way to start bumping out the John Leicesters of the world and replacing them with talent when the Orioles start fail around August.

Second, if left unsigned, Hendrickson will not be available on Opening day.

If you sign and start Hendrickson as the fifth starter, you can reasonably assume he'll throw for a 5.00ERA to finish the season. He will probably get himself 8-10 wins and be Cabrera-esque failure everyone hates. Either that or he does better than expected.

If you DON'T sign Hendrickson, and instead start Bergesen, you run the risk of Brad going out, pitching himself to a 108ERA in 2/3rds of an inning and say to yourself... well now I really don't have a 5th starter because Bergesen isn't ready for this and Hendrickson is off the board along with all the other free agent starters.

It's a risk management move. Andy MacPhail doesn't want to throw wildcards onto the field every five days. He'd rather be slightly below average and at least have control of that situation. If Hendrickson is absolutely terrible, he can at least demote or release him and then try Bergesen in his stead, and then you are at square one again.

That's just my take on it, seems logical to me.

I really think it's simpler than that; the FO can't bear to have another meltdown like last season, with pitchers who had no right to be there giving up 7+ runs a game. It might make them a little gun-shy of trying young pitchers, which is a shame, but I think any signings we make are more to stave off utter embarrassment if our kids aren't ready this season. Just my opinion, though.

I think we all agree that nobody thinks the FO considers Hendrickson or Izturis a substitute for Tex or is trying to hoodwink the fans, or even start another cycle of expensive mediocrity a la Payton/Millar/Mora/etc.

[Mackus]

I think the Orioles are being exceptionally obtuse by not looking at players like Salazar and Montanez for the team. I can maybe understand Reimold in AAA next year, but instead of shelling out the money for a 1B or a DH, go cheap with internal options who appear to have "figured it out".

Am I missing something?So are we now blaming the Orioles for both being too cheap and spending too much money?

I'd like to see both Salazar and Montanez on our bench, wouldn't consider either as starters.

However, I think its unfortunately likely that we go with 12 pitchers, so we'll only have 13 offensive players.

OD starting C, Huff, Roberts, Mora, Izturis, Scott, Jones, Markakis will be the starting 8 position players from C-RF. That leaves 5 spots for DH and bench. Freel, backup C, backup SS, and two others. I think Montanez and Salazar would be great guys to have on the bench and some combination of Salazar, Montanez, and Freel would get most of the DH at bats (more likely they'd play in the field and one of the regular fielders, Scott or Huff or Mora, would slide to DH for a game).

[JTrea81]

First, I don't think we are avoiding them. I think MacPhail wants to make Norfolk the natural place to stockpile talent, like all other teams do. Keeping everyone that's any good in Bowie is silly... why have a AAA team at all? This seems like a good way to start bumping out the John Leicesters of the world and replacing them with talent when the Orioles start fail around August.

Second, if left unsigned, Hendrickson will not be available on Opening day.

If you sign and start Hendrickson as the fifth starter, you can reasonably assume he'll throw for a 5.00ERA to finish the season. He will probably get himself 8-10 wins and be Cabrera-esque failure everyone hates. Either that or he does better than expected.

If you DON'T sign Hendrickson, and instead start Bergesen, you run the risk of Brad going out, pitching himself to a 108ERA in 2/3rds of an inning and say to yourself... well now I really don't have a 5th starter because Bergesen isn't ready for this and Hendrickson is off the board along with all the other free agent starters.

It's a risk management move. Andy MacPhail doesn't want to throw wildcards onto the field every five days. He'd rather be slightly below average and at least have control of that situation. If Hendrickson is absolutely terrible, he can at least demote or release him and then try Bergesen in his stead, and then you are at square one again.

That's just my take on it, seems logical to me.

But these players are all taking up roster spots so why not see what you have with them? If they evaluate Bergesen based on one outing, then they have no business being ML execs anyway. And if Bergesen falters, then you insert Berken or Hernandez and repeat. Somebody is going to stick. And obviously you give Olson, Liz and Penn first crack as well as Patton because they are the most advanced.

Keeping these guys in the minors and trying to keep them away from ML pitching by putting Hendricksons and Reddings in the rotation isn't going to do the Orioles or these pitchers any amount of good. If you are going to put the Sheets, Moyers, Wolfs and Kawakamis in there, that's one thing. But if you want bargain bin pitchers, then you might as well go with the guys you already have on your 40 man roster because you'll get just about the same result and you get to see if they have a future in MLB...

[SrMeowMeow]

Keeping these guys in the minors and trying to keep them away from ML pitching by putting Hendricksons and Reddings in the rotation isn't going to do the Orioles or these pitchers any amount of good. If you are going to put the Sheets, Moyers, Wolfs and Kawakamis in there, that's one thing. But if you want bargain bin pitchers, then you might as well go with the guys you already have on your 40 man roster because you'll get just about the same result and you get to see if they have a future in MLB...

Do you see why some people here would rather have stand-ins instead of paying for players who could be hanging around our necks as millstones in 2010 and 2011?

[lovetoaster]

If I was in charge, things would already be this way.

Well, no offense ET, if you were in charge, then I probably would not be a member of the community.

I enjoy the "insider" takes this site provides. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong, but they provide insight that we otherwise would not have. And they always spark conversation. People just need to take them with a grain of salt and not get too worked up when the information is overly positive or negative.

It's the offseason, a lot of things are in flux and there are a lot of smoke being blown around by every team. You can not believe everything that you hear, but it is nice to have the insight into what the team may be thinking at the time, in my opinion.

I think it would be pretty boring without them.

[wickedwitch]

MacPhail is panicking? Really?

[JTrea81]

Do you see why some people here would rather have stand-ins instead of paying for players who could be hanging around our necks as millstones in 2010 and 2011?

I'd rather have the problem of having too many good pitchers on the roster than not. Good pitching is always tradeable. Look what Javy Vazquez brought back...

[Enjoy Terror]

Of course nobody thinks that, unless you are a true Orioles pessimist.

Considering our track record here was the starting five in 2008:
Guthrie (finished as a starter)
Cabrera (finished as a starter)
Loewen (finished on DL)
Burres (moved to AAA, finished in the MLB pen)
Trachsel (finished cut from the team)

Guthrie and Cabrera both made the DL once during the season. Loewen pitched four games and was on the DL for the rest of the season. Burres was demoted to AAA for over a month, then went to the pen. Trachsel was cut in June. Olson, Liz and Waters were three pitchers who were promoted to help replace those guys, in addition to Sarfate, Albers, Bass, Simon and Cormier.

Without a doubt, whoever starts the year in the Orioles rotation will not be there to finish it. Bergesen, Berken, Patton, and Hernandez will all be available to pick up the slack, and I think the result will be a much more pleasant end to the season than if we had used plug-n-play AAAA filler like Waters and Cormier like we did in 2008.

[Frobby]

But these players are all taking up roster spots so why not see what you have with them? If they evaluate Bergesen based on one outing, then they have no business being ML execs anyway. And if Bergesen falters, then you insert Berken or Hernandez and repeat. Somebody is going to stick. And obviously you give Olson, Liz and Penn first crack as well as Patton because they are the most advanced.

Keeping these guys in the minors and trying to keep them away from ML pitching by putting Hendricksons and Reddings in the rotation isn't going to do the Orioles or these pitchers any amount of good. If you are going to put the Sheets, Moyers, Wolfs and Kawakamis in there, that's one thing. But if you want bargain bin pitchers, then you might as well go with the guys you already have on your 40 man roster because you'll get just about the same result and you get to see if they have a future in MLB...

The Orioles have judged that Bergesen, Berken, Hernandez and Tillman are not ready for the majors yet, and that is a judgment we should not second guess. Then it merely becomes a question of what you do to keep them in the minors for the time necessary to get them ready for the majors.

For the 2009 team, it would be a lot nicer to have some solid pitchers in there instead of Mark Hendrickson and his ilk. (Keep in mind, the O's have not said they expect Hendrickson to be in the rotation, and it remains to be seen whether he will be). But putting in some mediocre-at-best veterans still may be better than throwing AA pitchers to the wolves before they are ready, both for the good of the team and the good of the players. And at least they don't require multi-year commitments or large dollar outlays that might prevent you from spending money on other needs or at another, more advantageous time.

I'm not advocating this necessarily, just explaining the reasoning. And I sure hope Olson, Liz and Penn show more in 2009 than they have shown in the past in the majors.

[SrMeowMeow]

I'd rather have the problem of having too many good pitchers on the roster than not. Good pitching is always tradeable. Look what Javy Vazquez brought back...

If they were guaranteed to be good, sure. But they're clearly not. Kawakami is completely untested, Sheets an injury risk, Moyer is 45, and Wolf is not so spectacular. In fact, free agent pitching in general is no lock to be good the whole contract. I'd say it's more likely than not that a FA pitcher busts. Why take that risk when we don't have to? In 2010 we could sign a Sheets-type risk/reward guy on a one year deal, or sign an older pitcher to the long-term deal he wants because we'd be in a position to utilize the first and best years of his contract instead of wasting them on doomed seasons.

Here are 2009 Marcel projections converted to AL:

Sheets 4.00
Wolf 4.91!
Moyer 4.99!!

[Enjoy Terror]

So are we now blaming the Orioles for both being too cheap and spending too much money?

Define "we". I never thought the Orioles had a lot of money. I know MASN revenue is a bunch, but we certainly shouldn't be able to be spending $23M a year on one player while we selling 10K tickets per home game. You'll never hear me comment about the Orioles being stingy. I honestly think they are cutting costs for a reason other than greed.

[JTrea81]

The Orioles have judged that Bergesen, Berken, Hernandez and Tillman are not ready for the majors yet, and that is a judgment we should not second guess. Then it merely becomes a question of what you do to keep them in the minors for the time necessary to get them ready for the majors.

For the 2009 team, it would be a lot nicer to have some solid pitchers in there instead of Mark Hendrickson and his ilk. (Keep in mind, the O's have not said they expect Hendrickson to be in the rotation, and it remains to be seen whether he will be). But putting in some mediocre-at-best veterans still may be better than throwing AA pitchers to the wolves before they are ready, both for the good of the team and the good of the players. And at least they don't require multi-year commitments or large dollar outlays that might prevent you from spending money on other needs or at another, more advantageous time.

I'm not advocating this necessarily, just explaining the reasoning. And I sure hope Olson, Liz and Penn show more in 2009 than they have shown in the past in the majors.

I'm not saying we need to throw those guys to the wolves, I'm saying Olson, Liz, Penn and Patton should get the first crack. Have them sink or swim and then have the next line come in behind them to fill the holes where the others have fallen. Given the first three or four guys until June to see what they have, and then bring in the next wave if neccessary.

[jcroemer]

I'm not saying we need to throw those guys to the wolves, I'm saying Olson, Liz, Penn and Patton should get the first crack. Have them sink or swim and then have the next line come in behind them to fill the holes where the others have fallen. Given the first three guys until June to see what they have, and then bring in the next wave if neccessary.

Now I don't want to get flamed for this statement, but at this point, I see Olson and Liz as expendable. Penn may be a wash unless he shows something this spring. Patton, the jury is out.

[JTrea81]

If they were guaranteed to be good, sure. But they're clearly not. Kawakami is completely untested, Sheets an injury risk, Moyer is 45, and Wolf is not so spectacular. In fact, free agent pitching in general is no lock to be good the whole contract. I'd say it's more likely than not that a FA pitcher busts. Why take that risk when we don't have to? In 2010 we could sign a Sheets-type risk/reward guy on a one year deal, or sign an older pitcher to the long-term deal he wants because we'd be in a position to utilize the first and best years of his contract instead of wasting them on doomed seasons.

Here are 2009 Marcel projections converted to AL:

Sheets 4.00
Wolf 4.91!
Moyer 4.99!!

How about Redding and Hendrickson?

[jerios55]

If they were guaranteed to be good, sure. But they're clearly not. Kawakami is completely untested, Sheets an injury risk, Moyer is 45, and Wolf is not so spectacular. In fact, free agent pitching in general is no lock to be good the whole contract. I'd say it's more likely than not that a FA pitcher busts. Why take that risk when we don't have to? In 2010 we could sign a Sheets-type risk/reward guy on a one year deal, or sign an older pitcher to the long-term deal he wants because we'd be in a position to utilize the first and best years of his contract instead of wasting them on doomed seasons.

Here are 2009 Marcel projections converted to AL:

Sheets 4.00
Wolf 4.91!
Moyer 4.99!!

Well...

Liz 6.72
Olson 6.65
A Simon 6.23
DCab 5.25
Guthrie 3.63

it looks like an upgrade.

[SrMeowMeow]

How about Redding and Hendrickson?

Redding: 5.02
Hendrickson: 5.24

That's got to be troubling for Moyer fans. I admit I was surprised; those seem pretty favorable.

[Orioles West]

Well...

Liz 6.72
Olson 6.65
A Simon 6.23
DCab 5.25
Guthrie 3.63

it looks like an upgrade.


Ouch. But true.




-Don

[SrMeowMeow]

Well...

Liz 6.72
Olson 6.65
A Simon 6.23
DCab 5.25
Guthrie 3.63

it looks like an upgrade.

Well, it's hard to disagree. Is it an upgrade that's worth 8M for Moyer, 12M+ for Sheets, no idea for Kawakami, 4-5M for Wolf? Especially when they are all more likely to be worse in 2010 than better?

[Enjoy Terror]

Well, no offense ET, if you were in charge, then I probably would not be a member of the community.

None taken. I viewed that post as "If I don't get my way, I'm taking my ball and going home". I refuse to be held hostage when the insiders threaten to take their business elsewhere because of something someone else said. I won't beg you or anyone else to stay.

[SrMeowMeow]

None taken. I viewed that post as "If I don't get my way, I'm taking my ball and going home". I refuse to be held hostage when the insiders threaten to take their business elsewhere because of something someone else said. I won't beg you or anyone else to stay.

Hey, I see what you did there! :D

[Enjoy Terror]

Hey, I see what you did there! :D

Heck, I just saw what I did there. Completely unintentional!

[TJ Wrangler]

Well, it's hard to disagree. Is it an upgrade that's worth 8M for Moyer, 12M+ for Sheets, no idea for Kawakami, 4-5M for Wolf? Especially when they are all more likely to be worse in 2010 than better?

Yes to Wolf, Sheets, and Kawakami. Wolf is a solid #4/5 guy, and Sheets will fill the 2/3 spot effectively with those numbers. Kawakami would introduce us to a new market, but he is best off on a short deal.

[SrMeowMeow]

Yes to Wolf, Sheets, and Kawakami. Wolf is a solid #4/5 guy, and Sheets will fill the 2/3 spot effectively with those numbers. Kawakami would introduce us to a new market, but he is best off on a short deal.

I suppose. I just know that our fortunes over the next five years will rise and fall with our farm. If we don't get enough there, Sheets, Wolf and Kawakami will do nothing. If our farm produces close to what we expect, we can sign FAs at that point, when we know what we have.

[lovetoaster]

None taken. I viewed that post as "If I don't get my way, I'm taking my ball and going home". I refuse to be held hostage when the insiders threaten to take their business elsewhere because of something someone else said. I won't beg you or anyone else to stay.

Well, I read your response as being a commentary on his posts as a whole, not just that individual one.

If it was that individual one, I understand, because I did not agree with the tone he used either. But I think the tone in your response could have used some work as well.

We are on a message board, I realize it is hard to judge intent sometimes. You don't have to beg me to stay, I just could go without some of the snide remarks sometimes.

[Tx Oriole]

StateFarm that ahs been done to death. It is so childish.

[ChaosLex]

I turned on SportsCenter a couple of minutes ago, only to be greeted by an image of Girardi placing a Yankees jersey and cap upon Teixeira.

When I think about Angelos, I could just :puke:

Worst. Owner. Ever.

[estherhouse]

I turned on SportsCenter a couple of minutes ago, only to be greeted by an image of Girardi placing a Yankees jersey and cap upon Teixeira.

When I think about Angelos, I could just :puke:

Worst. Owner. Ever.
Al Davis still has him beat, but, it's real close.

[jerios55]

Well, it's hard to disagree. Is it an upgrade that's worth 8M for Moyer, 12M+ for Sheets, no idea for Kawakami, 4-5M for Wolf? Especially when they are all more likely to be worse in 2010 than better?


Not arguing the money, simply that era's under 5 are nothing to sneeze at in these parts.

[Cokeman]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

Another perspective from Roch in reply to a question in one of the comments:


I wouldn't describe it as chaos or dysfunction, but the inner-circle is pretty small. Not a lot of people in the warehouse know his business. They're on a need-to-know basis, if you will. And of course, that isn't going to sit well with everybody. - Roch

Roch (http://masnsports.com/2009/01/minor-league-managers.html)

[TakebackOPACY]

Another perspective from Roch in reply to a question in one of the comments:



Roch (http://masnsports.com/2009/01/minor-league-managers.html)

Perhaps they're on a need to know basis because MacPhail recognizes what day and age this is and doesn't want his potential next move revealed on a message board.

[blid]

I turned on SportsCenter a couple of minutes ago, only to be greeted by an image of Girardi placing a Yankees jersey and cap upon Teixeira.

When I think about Angelos, I could just :puke:

Worst. Owner. Ever.Apparently it won't be the first time Tex has worn a Yankees cap!

Tex, on growing up a fan of Yankees great Don Mattingly:

"I think it says a lot that a kid who grew up in Baltimore, whose family had season tickets in Baltimore, would cheer for . . . Mattingly. People would say, 'Why not Eddie [Murray], why not Cal [Ripken]?,' but there was just something about Don Mattingly. My dad would take me to O's games and I'd wear a Yankees hat, which wasn't too safe in Baltimore back in the '80s. But it was worth it. There's something about being a Yankee, no where you are there are Yankees fans, and I'm glad to be a Yankee today."

:mad:

[Burg]

Apparently it won't be the first time Tex has worn a Yankees cap!

Tex, on growing up a fan of Yankees great Don Mattingly:

"I think it says a lot that a kid who grew up in Baltimore, whose family had season tickets in Baltimore, would cheer for . . . Mattingly. People would say, 'Why not Eddie [Murray], why not Cal [Ripken]?,' but there was just something about Don Mattingly. My dad would take me to O's games and I'd wear a Yankees hat, which wasn't too safe in Baltimore back in the '80s. But it was worth it. There's something about being a Yankee, no where you are there are Yankees fans, and I'm glad to be a Yankee today."

:mad:

JTrea should be forced to read this repeatedly.

Tex was NEVER coming here if he could go to the MFYs.

He's dead to me.

[G.O.A.T.]

Apparently it won't be the first time Tex has worn a Yankees cap!

Tex, on growing up a fan of Yankees great Don Mattingly:

"I think it says a lot that a kid who grew up in Baltimore, whose family had season tickets in Baltimore, would cheer for . . . Mattingly. People would say, 'Why not Eddie [Murray], why not Cal [Ripken]?,' but there was just something about Don Mattingly. My dad would take me to O's games and I'd wear a Yankees hat, which wasn't too safe in Baltimore back in the '80s. But it was worth it. There's something about being a Yankee, no where you are there are Yankees fans, and I'm glad to be a Yankee today."

:mad:

Big suprise that this is what he said during the presser. :rolleyes:

I'm waiting for the quote that says "I've always wanted to wear pinstripes." The same crap all FA say when they sign with the Yankees. It's not like they can say "It was all about the money." Which it always is with any FA going to the Yankees.

I remeber A-Rod saying this back in the day, yet he wasn't going to stick around NY unless he got a huge paid day that no other team would give him.

[G.O.A.T.]

JTrea should be forced to read this repeatedly.

Tex was NEVER coming here if he could go to the MFYs.

He's dead to me.

I don't believe this. If Baltimore would have offered more I bet he would have came. Baseball needs a salary cap.

[Dipper9]

I turned on SportsCenter a couple of minutes ago, only to be greeted by an image of Girardi placing a Yankees jersey and cap upon Teixeira.

When I think about Angelos, I could just :puke:

Worst. Owner. Ever.


Apparently it won't be the first time Tex has worn a Yankees cap!

Tex, on growing up a fan of Yankees great Don Mattingly:

"I think it says a lot that a kid who grew up in Baltimore, whose family had season tickets in Baltimore, would cheer for . . . Mattingly. People would say, 'Why not Eddie [Murray], why not Cal [Ripken]?,' but there was just something about Don Mattingly. My dad would take me to O's games and I'd wear a Yankees hat, which wasn't too safe in Baltimore back in the '80s. But it was worth it. There's something about being a Yankee, no where you are there are Yankees fans, and I'm glad to be a Yankee today."

:mad:

Lex and JTrea need to keep reading this quote from Tex. He was a Yankee fan as a kid, and always wanted to be a Yankee. That's why he had Boras call the Yankees on the Tuesday he signed, and that's why he didn't take their offer to the other teams to top it. Its not Angelos' fault and its not MacPhail's fault. Tex went where he wanted to go, which was NEVER here. Now stop trying to spin things to meet your opinion that more money would have changed his mind. MAYBE 10/230 would have caused him to come to Baltimore, but Tex isn't worth it.

If anything, we should be praising MacPhail for not allowing Boras to use the Orioles to drive up the price. Maybe none of you will, but I will. Nice job Mr. MacPhail! :clap3:

[Fan4Life]

Apparently it won't be the first time Tex has worn a Yankees cap!

Tex, on growing up a fan of Yankees great Don Mattingly:

"I think it says a lot that a kid who grew up in Baltimore, whose family had season tickets in Baltimore, would cheer for . . . Mattingly. People would say, 'Why not Eddie [Murray], why not Cal [Ripken]?,' but there was just something about Don Mattingly. My dad would take me to O's games and I'd wear a Yankees hat, which wasn't too safe in Baltimore back in the '80s. But it was worth it. There's something about being a Yankee, no where you are there are Yankees fans, and I'm glad to be a Yankee today."

:mad:


JTrea should be forced to read this repeatedly.

Tex was NEVER coming here if he could go to the MFYs.

He's dead to me.

It's the O's fault for not drafting Mattingly... we'd have Tex now.. if only...

[JTrea81]

Big suprise that this is what he said during the presser. :rolleyes:

I'm waiting for the quote that says "I've always wanted to wear pinstripes." The same crap all FA say when they sign with the Yankees. It's not like they can say "It was all about the money." Which it always is with any FA going to the Yankees.

I remeber A-Rod saying this back in the day, yet he wasn't going to stick around NY unless he got a huge paid day that no other team would give him.

Ditto, he never once said he always wanted to be a Yankee, but I'm sure he's happy to follow in the footsteps of his idol.

Besides he said there was something about Mattingly, not something about the Yankees nor did he say the Yankees were the organization he always wanted to play for...

People are reading what they want to read to villify Tex and if that's what it takes for you to feel better, by all means have Tex take all the blame.

[OrangeJerseys]

Apparently it won't be the first time Tex has worn a Yankees cap!

Tex, on growing up a fan of Yankees great Don Mattingly:

"I think it says a lot that a kid who grew up in Baltimore, whose family had season tickets in Baltimore, would cheer for . . . Mattingly. People would say, 'Why not Eddie [Murray], why not Cal [Ripken]?,' but there was just something about Don Mattingly. My dad would take me to O's games and I'd wear a Yankees hat, which wasn't too safe in Baltimore back in the '80s. But it was worth it. There's something about being a Yankee, no where you are there are Yankees fans, and I'm glad to be a Yankee today."

:mad:

Hopefully he was one of those :cussing: kids my friends and I would terrorize back then. Probably not if he was sitting in season tix seats.

He's a :cussing:. Period. May he stink up the new MFY stadium and get a horrible Knoblauch like case of the yips.

I hope they boo you as bad as we do.

[Burg]

Ditto, he never once said he always wanted to be a Yankee, but I'm sure he's happy to follow in the footsteps of his idol.

Except when he did.



People are reading what they want to read to villify Tex and if that's what it takes for you to feel better, by all means have Tex take all the blame.

Pot meet kettle.

[Dipper9]

Ditto, he never once said he always wanted to be a Yankee, but I'm sure he's happy to follow in the footsteps of his idol.

Besides he said there was something about Mattingly, not something about the Yankees nor did he say the Yankees were the organization he always wanted to play for...

People are reading what they want to read to villify Tex and if that's what it takes for you to feel better, by all means have Tex take all the blame.

What part of "There's just something about being a Yankee" do you not understand? Yeah, JTrea, its US reading between the lines...right. :rolleyes:

[Pushmonkey]

Ditto, he never once said he always wanted to be a Yankee, but I'm sure he's happy to follow in the footsteps of his idol.

Besides he said there was something about Mattingly, not something about the Yankees nor did he say the Yankees were the organization he always wanted to play for...

People are reading what they want to read to villify Tex and if that's what it takes for you to feel better, by all means have Tex take all the blame.

"I think it says a lot that a kid who grew up in Baltimore, whose family had season tickets in Baltimore, would cheer for . . . Mattingly. People would say, 'Why not Eddie [Murray], why not Cal [Ripken]?,' but there was just something about Don Mattingly. My dad would take me to O's games and I'd wear a Yankees hat, which wasn't too safe in Baltimore back in the '80s. But it was worth it. There's something about being a Yankee, no where you are there are Yankees fans, and I'm glad to be a Yankee today."

Just because you live somewhere does not make it a dream to play for them!

[Fairfax Bird]

Another perspective from Roch in reply to a question in one of the comments:



Roch (http://masnsports.com/2009/01/minor-league-managers.html)

Ahh, a smart man once said that there is probably a lot of sour grapes in the FO because people once in the know are now not. I wonder who that smart man was?:scratchchinhmm:

[Dipper9]

from roch ... http://masnsports.com/2009/01/early-returns-on-tex.html

"We can spend hours debating whether the Orioles took the right approach in their "negotiations" with Boras, but it's become more and more clear that Teixeira had no intention of playing here. I'm not sure how much more obvious he can be about it."

JTrea?

[Fairfax Bird]

from roch ... http://masnsports.com/2009/01/early-returns-on-tex.html

"We can spend hours debating whether the Orioles took the right approach in their "negotiations" with Boras, but it's become more and more clear that Teixeira had no intention of playing here. I'm not sure how much more obvious he can be about it."

JTrea?

We all know that Tex wanted to be an Oriole and MacPhail ruined it ... you can read whatever you want into the quotes from Boras and Tex, but you can't get in their mind, where it is clear that Tex wanted to be an Oriole.

[Birds08]

Not only have we not made a move for nearly four weeks, but there also hasn't even be a credible rumor to get excited about during that span. And I don't think the Roberts/Floyd rumor had enough meat on it to be considered credible.

[SHAWN555]

Indians just signed Pavano for one year deal.

Would have rather had Pavano than Hendrickson.

Also would have been better than Redding or two years of Looper.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jSeKXDGFOO6Rdd2xng9ZfQotP9nAD95HRREG0

[Fairfax Bird]

Not only have we not made a move for nearly four weeks, but there also hasn't even be a credible rumor to get excited about during that span. And I don't think the Roberts/Floyd rumor had enough meat on it to be considered credible.

Mark Hendrickson. All you want is a credible rumor to get excited about. Nick Markakis to the Braves for Heyward, Schaeffer, and Kelly Johnson. How does that rumor work for you?

The off-season is half over and there are no rumors because BBs source in the FO doesn't know jack cause he is on the outside looking in.

[Fairfax Bird]

Indians just signed Pavano for one year deal.

Would have rather had Pavano than Hendrickson.

Also would have been better than Redding or two years of Looper.

Pavano has talent, but you really think he will be healthy at all?

[SHAWN555]

Pavano has talent, but you really think he will be healthy at all?

For a one year deal, he is the kind of player we should be looking at.

If he can stay somewhat healthy could be dealt at deadline.

If he does not stay healthy it was only a one year deal for a small amount.

At least he has shown when he is healthy he can put up solid numbers especially compared to the rest of the staff.

[Fairfax Bird]

For a one year deal, he is the kind of player we should be looking at.

If he can stay somewhat healthy could be dealt at deadline.

If he does not stay healthy it was only a one year deal for a small amount.

At least he has shown when he is healthy he can put up solid numbers especially compared to the rest of the staff.

Good points and I think worth the risk as well, which is why we should look at Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon as well.

[Birds08]

Mark Hendrickson. All you want is a credible rumor to get excited about. Nick Markakis to the Braves for Heyward, Schaeffer, and Kelly Johnson. How does that rumor work for you?

The off-season is half over and there are no rumors because BBs source in the FO doesn't know jack cause he is on the outside looking in.

That's not what I mean. But I mean more in depth info than the reporters have been providing about our direction, our pursuit of the Japanese pitchers, our non pursuit of Dunn and Sheets. I don't blame the reporters, because the FO isn't giving them diddly to report. It's just frustrating. I mean look, here we are two weeks after Tex signed and that is still all we are talking about.

[Fairfax Bird]

That's not what I mean. But I mean more in depth info than the reporters have been providing about our direction, our pursuit of the Japanese pitchers, our non pursuit of Dunn and Sheets. I don't blame the reporters, because the FO isn't giving them diddly to report. It's just frustrating. I mean look, here we are two weeks after Tex signed and that is still all we are talking about.

Check around the league, most teams are in the same situation. Except for the Yanks it has been more of a luke-warm stove than a hot stove.

[SHAWN555]

Good points and I think worth the risk as well, which is why we should look at Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon as well.

I agree on this mode of picking up players but not sure our front office is on the plan for some reason.

I also would like to see us sign someone like
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/Ryan-Wing.shtml

He is the kind of player I would prefer to Hendrickson.

Wing may be more of a middle man but could be stretched out some and I think has a mucher higher potential than Hendrickson and could end up being Walker's replacement in 2010.

[Birds08]

Check around the league, most teams are in the same situation. Except for the Yanks it has been more of a luke-warm stove than a hot stove.

This isn't the type of point that I find is worth arguing. Was just voicing my frustration with the lack of activity, and moreso, the lack of communication between the FO via the media to the fanbase.

[TonySoprano]

from roch ... http://masnsports.com/2009/01/early-returns-on-tex.html

"We can spend hours debating whether the Orioles took the right approach in their "negotiations" with Boras, but it's become more and more clear that Teixeira had no intention of playing here. I'm not sure how much more obvious he can be about it."

JTrea?

"My wife and I decided probably two weeks before Christmas, hey the Yankees are where we want to be.” - Mark Teixeira at the presser 1/6/09

Think of all the buzz here in those two weeks, the numerous Teixeira watches, the whole Tex at the Ravens game drama...

just wow

[SilentJames]

Are we free?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-orioles0106,0,2908949.story

[YaBoyTopher]

Are we free?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-orioles0106,0,2908949.story

Finally! Being a hostage was no fun :D

[jcroemer]

Spoke with my guy this evening. He said the warehouse is a cluster. No one has any idea of what's happening or what direction we're headed. He knows AM has over played his hand in a couple instances this season by low balling players we wanted in both years and dollars. He thinks AM will make a panic moves in the next week or so. By the way ticket orders are estimated to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

He thinks we'll have a pitcher signed by the end of the week.

BINGO!!! :wedge:

[BaltimoreTerp]

BINGO!!! :wedge:

Finally got one right.

[ChaosLex]

Finally got one right.

He's right more often than naught, my friend. ;)

[PrivateO]

Well there's that pitcher.

I'm alive!!! No more terrible meals. No longer a hostage!

[JohnnyK27]

Are we still be held hostage ??? I wouldn't necessarily consider signing him a major addition. Certainly helps ...But certainly not major:confused:

[Enjoy Terror]

He's right more often than naught, my friend. ;)

He's terribly vague more often than not, which leaves a wide margin to be correct.

[Enjoy Terror]

Are we still be held hostage ??? I wouldn't necessarily consider signing him a major addition. Certainly helps ...But certainly not major:confused:

He's probably our #2 starter and our first foray into Asia. I think that's a pretty major thing.

[MikeAD]

Are we still be held hostage ??? I wouldn't necessarily consider signing him a major addition. Certainly helps ...But certainly not major:confused:

Are you kidding? AM shook it up here, our rotation just got FIERCE :D

[OregonBird]

Finally! Being a hostage was no fun :D

Nah.

I think the cop negotiators sent in a few pizzas and beers in exchange for releasing a few of the women hostages. :p

We're going to be here awhile.